E69: How to make online learning feel like in-person community – A creative course revision at Lethbridge Polytechnic

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Loved them. They loved the activities. They felt that they were appropriate,
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that they were really what they were doing in practice.
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A lot of our DL students are working in the field already.
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And so they go, we've taken all of this with us. This was the most meaningful
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course to them in their program so far.
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So I was definitely very, very excited about that.
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Music.
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This is Learning Innovation, the Teaching and Learning podcast,
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also known as LITL-Pod.
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We are created by Lethbridge Polytechnic's Centre for Teaching,
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Learning and Innovation, located in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada,
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on the traditional lands of the Blackfoot Confederacy.
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In the spirit of Equity, Diversity, Inclusion, and Niitsitapi’ksimpstaan
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(Real Thinking), we play host to a spectrum of guests from the teaching and learning community.
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As we highlight and explore innovation in education, we hope to kindle warm
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conversations, expand perspectives, and foster lasting partnerships today, tomorrow, and beyond.
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The future of learning starts now.
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"There were tons of things I was able to take from the course and use in my day-to-day
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work in recreation therapy."
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"Meeting up with your lab group once a month, I really liked that.
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It felt like we were actually a part of a class instead, because you can kind
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of feel isolated when you're online and you're just looking at a screen all the time.
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But being able to connect with our classmates and I feel I got a lot closer to our teacher.
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Overall, I really, really liked the program, and I wish every program was like
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that." "Yeah, it was just one of my favourite courses so far.
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And I wish all of our courses could be like this, more hands-on,
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because anybody who works in recreation knows that's what it is.
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It's such a hands-on job.
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It's not something that you can fully learn just from a textbook." Oki, and welcome.
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I am your host, Donna McLaughlin, and I am a Learning Experience Designer at
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Lethbridge Polytechnic.
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Those clips you just heard are a taste of the positive student feedback circulating
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about the newly revitalized Therapeutic Recreation Gerontology, or TRG,
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course at Lethbridge Polytechnic.
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Craig McCarthy, an Instructional Designer, and Kathie Ervin, a 20-year instructor
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of the TRG Diploma Program, are the folks who made the magic happen.
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Last semester, they revised the distance learning portion of Kathie's TRG course
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to create a more hands-on learning experience for students.
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And they have a lot to share!
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Thanks for having us. Thank you. So, Kathie, before we jump in,
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can you tell us what Therapeutic Recreation Gerontology is?
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Sure, I'd love to answer that question.
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Therapeutic Recreation is the purposeful use of recreation and leisure activities
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to promote, maintain, and improve overall health and wellness.
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And the gerontology aspect of that, of our program here, is it's not just rec
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therapy, but specifically for older adults that we are working with.
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That sounds like something very important at this time as we have such a large
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part of the population that is aging.
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So how did this project get started?
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Kathie came in to our CTL and was looking for like tech tools that we could use
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to try and help this online program be more hands-on.
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And I came in and really had no idea what would fix this problem!
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I couldn't think of any tech tools that would just kind of magically make it
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go away. And it seemed really intimidating.
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But then we kind of got started on the project. And it eventually all came together.
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But it took quite a bit of thinking at the beginning.
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But I don't know. What was it like for you when we just first started, Kathie? I actually...
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Really thought it couldn't be done because this course needed work.
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It was a theory course when it needed to be more of a skills-based course.
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And at the time when it was originally developed, we just didn't know how to
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replicate what we were doing on campus to the online version.
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So I was quite skeptical to begin!
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And it is a very large course as well. So it is kind of intimidating.
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So I was hoping that by contacting CTLI that maybe there was something new.
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Someone could help us take what we had and create proper DL version.
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Yeah, and this is a program that is available both face-to-face as well as online. Is that correct?
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Yes, the whole program is available online. Okay, so you have students from
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all over? All over. Okay. Yes.
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Yeah, so it's important that they get the same experience as the students that are on campus.
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Yes, and this course in particular is a capstone course in our program.
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So trying to achieve that same level of rigor and skills was really important.
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And we found that the online version, it was just really, really lacking in that.
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So we were really focused and driven to try and create the same experience for the students.
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Especially when this course is one that is like really kind of has a special
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a place for a lot of students,
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I think, because this also is a course that Kathie has crafted over this 20 years
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that has become just such a hands-on learning experience where they're getting
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to apply so much of what they've done.
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And so to miss out on that and kind of the online program was like a really
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big loss. This is kind of what they're doing right before they go into their practicum.
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So to get a lot of this hands-on experience in Kathie's class was we wanted to
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try and bring that to the online group as well.
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So that sounds like a bit of a challenge, But so how do you go about,
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like, can you just replicate this online, what you're doing in person,
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or what does that look like?
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Well, at first we weren't sure what to do, honestly.
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We started just by looking at the assessments because we knew that the assessments
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weren't having the same kind of rigor that they were having in class.
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They would have so much more. They were leading activities.
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Like every day someone would be leading an activity for the group.
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And so they weren't getting to participate in that.
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They were just kind of just getting to do their own one over video.
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And so that was where we kind of started tackling first. And that was a really
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important part, was to replicate that hands-on skills part.
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And we took a bit of time trying to figure out how the students would demonstrate that.
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They'd have to find family and friends to interact with them so that they could lead it.
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And then still go through all of the steps that the campus students had.
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So it was a matter of how are they going to be able to do this?
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Who are they going to access?
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How are we going to record this, upload us? Who's going to look at it?
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Who's going to give the feedback?
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So once we kind of got that figured out, I think the rest of it really fell in place quite quickly.
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Yeah, once we kind of had the assessments figured out, we started looking at
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the kind of page by page of the course.
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And initially, we were going to try and take the online content and,
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you know, kind of fix it up or whatever.
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But eventually what we decided was we ended up making it so that we took Kathie's in-person course.
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And then kind of each lesson we got figured out
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like how can we make this lesson translate to online and how
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can we make then you know the next lesson translate to online because each
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one felt like its own kind of puzzle as to there was something that was working
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in person and there were there's a lot of field trips in this class like going
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out to you know the going to the pool for aquafit-type programs or going out
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to local museums and things like that so there was so much of this hands-on content that.
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Yeah, we're just trying to figure out, like, this is working here,
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so how can we do this lesson and get it to work online?
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Well, that's so important because that's, I mean, for that type of a program,
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it's important that the students would have that hands-on experience as well
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as, yeah, I think that's a lot of why students come to a polytechnic or choose
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that is because they really want that...
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connection and that hands-on experience. So that's amazing. Is there a specific
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example that you can think of, of, you know, one of the assessments or the lessons
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that you worked on where you took it that way?
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I think one, a very favourite one of mine that started early in the course was,
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besides just doing the program plans themselves and the students doing that,
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throughout the course, we very carefully selected learning activities.
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And they were ones that built on the content and the concepts and the ideas.
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But what was interesting is they weren't for marks. It was like an added learning opportunity.
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And one of the ones that worked so well, and it was one of the first ones,
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so maybe that's why it sticks with me the very most out of the course,
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was it was under the Gardening and Horticulture module.
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And the learning activity was to go out into your surroundings,
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outside your house or whatever, and pick little plants or flowers or whatever,
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and create a hand bouquet.
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And it was kind of to describe like your area or how you were feeling.
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And then the students would take a picture of it, and then upload it into a
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discussion that they all could see.
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And some of the comments that were made were amazing that students had shared.
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And all of the hand bouquets were so, so different. Like it was just amazing.
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I think I emailed Craig immediately as people were posting that going,
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"yYou've got to see this. It's so amazing!"
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Yeah. And that would be something very similar that we would do on campus.
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We would go outside. We do actually, it's a colour matching exercise where we
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take paint swatches and then they go together and they find things in nature
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that are of the same colour.
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So it was like, this was really nice because they were doing an activity that
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would be very, very similar to what we would do with campus-based students.
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Yeah, and that was something that,
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We were really nervous. And one of the reasons why Kathie was so excited to email
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me was because we were very nervous
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that people weren't actually going to participate in this sort of thing.
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Often, you know, in lots of online courses, there'll be a learning activity at the end of the page.
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And then I think the majority of students just move on to the next,
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you know, like a reflection question or something like that.
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And so we were really trying to figure out, like, how can we make this something
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that is meaningful that the students will do?
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And there's like a gut instinct of wanting to take it for marks to kind of like
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make sure that students do it.
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But that wasn't what was going on in class like they weren't
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going out and doing this for marks they were doing it because it was like a meaningful learning
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activity and so that was what we
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were really nervous about that the students wouldn't participate in this kind
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of stuff so we put a lot of effort into trying to make those activities something
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that students would find meaningful and enjoyable and try to communicate the
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benefits of or why this was relevant to their career and I think that because
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Kathie had so many of these activities from the in-person course they were they
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were relevant to their careers.
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And some of these activities also, and we'll talk more about the in-person labs
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or the synchronous labs later, but because there was a sense of community in
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this online course, people, I think, were much more willing to participate in this kind of stuff.
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And we were so excited when the students were like, when we saw them buying in.
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Do you have some theories on why they were engaged with those activities,
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even though they weren't getting marks?
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I know one student, when I was kind of asking, you know, how they found the
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learning activities, because some students did them and some of them didn't.
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And the one student just said to me, "Why wouldn't I?"
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It's like, it's part of my learning. I want to get everything I can out of this course.
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And also that they felt the activities were relevant to the content.
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And they weren't, you know, really time consuming and taxing.
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And we also made sure the things that we chose, they wouldn't have to go out
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and, you know, go find equipment and supplies and all sorts of things.
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So we made it easy for them to participate in, relevant to the content.
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And students just really enjoyed having that opportunity to practice more and learn more.
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Yeah, I feel like it's something that's kind of more than the sum of its parts.
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I think we did a whole bunch of different intentional decisions in the course
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to try and make things relevant and then also build this kind of like safe community as well.
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And so I think that...
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yeah, all those things together kind of ended up making it so that students
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were more willing to do this sort of thing.
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And yeah, I think the relevance too, I think because it's more of a hands-on
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course, it's a lot easier for them and they're right about to go into their
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practicum too. And so we were kind of asking this when we were making these
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learning activities, like why would this be valuable to them?
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And I think, and we would also write in there that like, you know,
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be prepared to share this during our lab session.
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So there was, you know, you can't just be that kind of anonymous internet person
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that's like taking an online course.
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Like there was a sense that like, we're, we're going to talk about this and
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this is going to be meaningful or relevant for you.
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And I think that we were able to get that through that they were like,
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yeah, okay, this makes sense for the most part. I mean, it's not like everyone
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did everything, but yeah, enough people did it that it was like a success for us.
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So another assessment that Kathie had in her in-person course that we really
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wanted to replicate online was this Life Story assignment.
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And this course was so much fun for me to work on because, you know,
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all the learning activities and course content that Kathie has is all just so
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much fun. And then also just so meaningful.
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So this Life Story assignment, I was so excited when Kathie showed it to me where
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the students would interview
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an older adult and get a whole bunch of information about their life story.
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And then they would create an artifact that kind of represented the different stages of their life.
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And so Kathie has explained to me how you know it's not just that they're you
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know doing this as like an activity it's that then this is a something that
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can be in that older adult's room especially if they have like dementia or things
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like that it can be hard for them to remember,
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it's someone took the time to learn all these different things about this this
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person and then someone coming into the room can interact with that artifact
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and say like oh like what's it can you tell me about this?
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And, and so it, you know, it was a really incredible project and...
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and having like this physical artifact was important about, you know,
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not just having like a PowerPoint or something like that.
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And so, again, we went with a very low tech solution where we just said like,
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Ok, you do need to create a physical artifact and then just video what it is
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and show and like and narrate what, you know, tell us about what this thing is.
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And and yeah, so that was something that I was like so excited about.
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And the students had the option to, even though they knew they had to make like
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a physical project of some sort, they also could come up with creative ideas.
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So some students did like a scrapbook, and they had the different time periods
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and pictures and memorabilia and things. Other students had put together the
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same story, but with very important artifacts.
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And it would be like, oh, this was the camera grandpa used to use,
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you know, when he first started taking pictures, these types of things.
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I had a student that did a great big poster board, and it was like a driving
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lane of going through different parts of the person's life with all the information and pictures.
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And one of the other ones, which was a lot of work the student had put in,
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and we used this as an example.
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They were a series of boxes that fit inside each other. So the first box just
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looks almost like a hat box.
00:15:38.870 --> 00:15:41.290
You take the lid off and the sides all fall down.
00:15:41.690 --> 00:15:45.750
And it's got all information and pictures about, you know, this is where they were born.
00:15:45.870 --> 00:15:49.110
This is where they went to school, school years, things that were important to them.
00:15:49.210 --> 00:15:52.710
So it wasn't just like that sort of, this is where I was born,
00:15:52.930 --> 00:15:54.650
this is where I went to school. It was like, what was your favourite subject?
00:15:54.770 --> 00:15:56.910
Or what was a great memory about you being in school?
00:15:57.210 --> 00:16:01.790
And then adding things to it. So each of these boxes would open up until the
00:16:01.790 --> 00:16:04.890
very last one was like, you know, where are they at in their life now,
00:16:05.030 --> 00:16:06.470
you know, upon retirement and whatever.
00:16:07.390 --> 00:16:10.670
And it would be talking about what was important to them in their life,
00:16:10.850 --> 00:16:13.930
lessons that were learned. And then some of them would put little examples in there.
00:16:14.070 --> 00:16:18.870
In this one that we used as an example, the student's grandma would crochet.
00:16:19.330 --> 00:16:23.090
So there was like little examples of these projects that she crocheted and volunteered.
00:16:23.290 --> 00:16:27.830
So the creativity that came out from these projects too was amazing.
00:16:28.550 --> 00:16:33.110
And that it's a useful project. It's not like, okay, that's going in the closet or whatever.
00:16:33.350 --> 00:16:36.590
Most students do it on a family member, you know, a grandparent, an aunt, or an uncle.
00:16:36.970 --> 00:16:41.110
And it's like they can gift those Life Stories to them. So it's a very meaningful project.
00:16:42.009 --> 00:16:46.929
That's really amazing. I mean, yeah, it sounds incredibly meaningful and students
00:16:46.929 --> 00:16:53.449
could use their creativity as well as appealing or with UDL,
00:16:53.589 --> 00:16:54.989
Universal Design for Learning,
00:16:55.249 --> 00:17:00.949
students are able to choose sort of that creative project that works for them
00:17:00.949 --> 00:17:03.249
in engaging their own learning.
00:17:03.249 --> 00:17:07.789
So I'm curious to hear more about some of the other changes in the course.
00:17:08.269 --> 00:17:11.649
Yeah, can you talk about some of the other changes it made and how did that
00:17:11.649 --> 00:17:14.029
improve the experience for the learners?
00:17:14.629 --> 00:17:17.889
Well, I think we should maybe talk about the online or the synchronous labs
00:17:17.889 --> 00:17:23.069
was like a really major component where before there was no synchronous component
00:17:23.069 --> 00:17:25.949
to the course. There wasn't any online, live meetings.
00:17:26.129 --> 00:17:29.289
You know, there was kind of office hours type things, but they weren't mandatory.
00:17:29.789 --> 00:17:33.989
And that was something that we really wanted to include because the the in-person
00:17:33.989 --> 00:17:37.769
course had such a focus on on community and and doing these like experiencing
00:17:37.769 --> 00:17:39.189
a lot of different activities together.
00:17:39.969 --> 00:17:43.049
And so we'd made a decision to do a synchronous component
00:17:43.049 --> 00:17:46.049
but rather than do it in like one
00:17:46.049 --> 00:17:49.009
large group that a large online meeting
00:17:49.009 --> 00:17:51.649
really quickly just turns into a lecture and it's really hard to
00:17:51.649 --> 00:17:54.689
get people to participate and like comment and have discussion
00:17:54.689 --> 00:17:57.609
and so we made the decision to do small
00:17:57.609 --> 00:18:00.649
lab groups where Kathie would just do a group of like
00:18:00.649 --> 00:18:03.429
four or five? Three and four. Three and
00:18:03.429 --> 00:18:06.309
four, yeah. And so then that created
00:18:06.309 --> 00:18:09.349
a much more like personal setting where they were able to actually discuss
00:18:09.349 --> 00:18:14.149
with each other and and we had a specifically like all these learning activities
00:18:14.149 --> 00:18:16.549
we did we said okay be prepared to share this when you come to this in-person
00:18:16.549 --> 00:18:19.449
lab you know this isn't for marks but like we're going to talk about this kind
00:18:19.449 --> 00:18:24.069
of stuff and so I think that also created a bit of like social buy-in of why
00:18:24.069 --> 00:18:28.749
to do this sort of stuff and that went quite well I think, Kathie. Oh, it went really well.
00:18:29.269 --> 00:18:33.789
And the thing that was so different and was so nice from my perspective,
00:18:33.829 --> 00:18:37.869
too, is, you know, on an online course, if you have like a Zoom meeting,
00:18:38.069 --> 00:18:40.349
it's not mandatory. So some people come, some don't.
00:18:40.489 --> 00:18:43.149
Some people have their cameras on, some people don't.
00:18:43.309 --> 00:18:46.849
With this small lab component, everybody was there.
00:18:47.269 --> 00:18:51.269
Everybody had their cameras was on, everybody was participating.
00:18:51.829 --> 00:18:56.369
And it was set up in kind of a more laid back structure.
00:18:56.709 --> 00:19:00.729
So there was lots of discussion going on, not only about the content and it
00:19:00.729 --> 00:19:02.349
would be like, oh, so what did you do for this?
00:19:02.469 --> 00:19:05.229
And we'd talk about things and someone would go, yeah, well,
00:19:05.349 --> 00:19:09.349
I took that to my workplace and I tried that at my workplace, it was amazing.
00:19:09.609 --> 00:19:15.069
So there was a lot of sharing of information and of experience that was relevant
00:19:15.069 --> 00:19:17.929
to the content. So it wasn't like we were off topic.
00:19:18.639 --> 00:19:21.079
You know, on a runaway conversation talking about something else,
00:19:21.219 --> 00:19:25.639
we were discussing content that was relevant to what they had done in the course
00:19:25.639 --> 00:19:27.719
and what they had seen. And it was just amazing.
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.379
And people's personal experiences. So it wasn't just, you know,
00:19:31.459 --> 00:19:35.919
how they did on the examples of the learning activities in the course.
00:19:36.099 --> 00:19:39.759
It was like, yeah, I took that into my workplace and this is what happened there and this worked great.
00:19:40.159 --> 00:19:44.719
So it was amazing. It was amazing. And I think when we talk about that building
00:19:44.719 --> 00:19:48.059
of community, they all got to know each other. I felt the same way.
00:19:48.239 --> 00:19:53.499
I felt very much like I was teaching a campus course where I really get to know
00:19:53.499 --> 00:19:57.859
the students face-to-face. You recognize them. You start to know things about them, right?
00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:02.559
And when we'd meet, you could say, oh, how did that job interview go that,
00:20:02.639 --> 00:20:06.159
you know, you were saying you were doing last week? Or how did that program go?
00:20:06.339 --> 00:20:11.219
It was an amazing experience. But I, you can only have that kind of experience
00:20:11.219 --> 00:20:16.339
when you've got a group that's that small and feels comfortable in that kind of space.
00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:19.539
Yeah, that's wonderful to be able to do that because I know myself,
00:20:19.699 --> 00:20:23.659
yeah, I've taken online courses and they don't feel so personal sometimes.
00:20:23.919 --> 00:20:27.959
And so having that sharing, that's amazing. That's really fantastic that both
00:20:27.959 --> 00:20:31.559
you and the students were able to have that experience and for them to make
00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:32.839
those connections to...
00:20:33.691 --> 00:20:39.651
their lives and their work. The TRG program has a Facebook page and we regularly
00:20:39.651 --> 00:20:44.631
post pictures of this on-campus students and the activities that they're participating
00:20:44.631 --> 00:20:47.711
in, in the programs that they're running when we're on field trips.
00:20:47.931 --> 00:20:52.971
And so at the beginning of the online course, when the hand bouquets came up,
00:20:53.111 --> 00:20:58.411
which I was so excited about, I asked students for permission if we could post
00:20:58.411 --> 00:20:59.871
those on our Facebook page.
00:21:00.311 --> 00:21:05.351
And they were really excited about it because it's only the campus students that are highlighted.
00:21:05.551 --> 00:21:08.731
And they're like, yeah, we want to be on the Facebook page too!
00:21:08.871 --> 00:21:12.791
Let's show, you know, what the DL students are doing. So it was really exciting
00:21:12.791 --> 00:21:14.111
and to see them be that engaged.
00:21:14.251 --> 00:21:16.951
And they were like, yeah, we really want to show them what we're doing!
00:21:17.171 --> 00:21:18.371
And I was like, oh, that's great.
00:21:18.611 --> 00:21:23.571
So it was a good opportunity for them as well. And more community as well,
00:21:23.951 --> 00:21:26.211
bringing the DL program and the campus program together.
00:21:26.611 --> 00:21:32.151
So these program plans would be every day in the lab, a student would put on
00:21:32.151 --> 00:21:33.391
like an activity for the rest of the group.
00:21:33.491 --> 00:21:37.071
So they would kind of lead the group in an activity as you would in a rec therapy position.
00:21:37.771 --> 00:21:41.091
And then they would all give feedback, like, you know, Kathie would give feedback,
00:21:41.211 --> 00:21:43.551
but the whole group would give feedback of like, oh, this was working,
00:21:43.631 --> 00:21:44.271
but this wasn't working.
00:21:44.411 --> 00:21:48.471
And so that was the kind of group experience and peer feedback was something
00:21:48.471 --> 00:21:51.291
that was really missing from that online course, which is why we started the
00:21:51.291 --> 00:21:54.271
those like lab sessions in the first place. is we said, you know,
00:21:54.771 --> 00:21:56.971
give each other ahead of time, give peer feedback.
00:21:57.291 --> 00:22:01.151
They would upload a video of them doing this thing, their activity,
00:22:01.171 --> 00:22:04.351
and then they would give peer feedback to the people in their lab group.
00:22:04.951 --> 00:22:08.291
And then they would come to this online meeting with that same lab group.
00:22:08.391 --> 00:22:11.951
And so that meant that they had already seen each other's videos,
00:22:12.071 --> 00:22:14.331
had given some feedback, had some of these thoughts, and then they got to have
00:22:14.331 --> 00:22:17.571
that kind of more community-based discussion around it.
00:22:17.611 --> 00:22:21.071
And it gave Kathie time to give them also personalized feedback That's more than
00:22:21.071 --> 00:22:23.971
just what you type out on a rubric or something like that, too.
00:22:24.811 --> 00:22:29.271
Okay, yeah. So it's not just feedback from yourself, Kathie, but... From the students.
00:22:29.531 --> 00:22:35.331
and if I can kind of give a little bit of context to that. So even for yourselves,
00:22:35.391 --> 00:22:37.411
if you're not familiar with rec therapy.
00:22:37.911 --> 00:22:41.091
So here might be an example. So when I was working many, many years ago as a
00:22:41.091 --> 00:22:45.051
rec therapist in one of the continuing care centres that I worked in,
00:22:45.171 --> 00:22:49.811
in the evening, once a week, we had this homemade ice cream program that we made.
00:22:49.811 --> 00:22:53.191
There was a small group of about six older adults, and we'd get together,
00:22:53.211 --> 00:22:59.211
and we had an antique hand crank ice cream machine, and we'd ask everybody,
00:22:59.331 --> 00:23:00.631
you know, what's your favourite kind of ice cream?
00:23:00.711 --> 00:23:03.411
And we had this big flip chart, and we'd write all these ones down.
00:23:03.531 --> 00:23:08.471
So once a week, we would make these ice creams of everybody's favourite,
00:23:08.491 --> 00:23:10.171
and of course, everybody had to use a hand crank.
00:23:10.931 --> 00:23:15.111
So this is where rec therapy is different. So when you look at that program,
00:23:15.431 --> 00:23:20.031
you see someone leading a group with some older adults sitting around and you're
00:23:20.031 --> 00:23:21.451
making ice cream, right?
00:23:22.111 --> 00:23:28.811
When I look at that program, what I see is, oh, that program has a social interaction
00:23:28.811 --> 00:23:33.591
pattern that's called intergroup, which means they have to be able to positively
00:23:34.043 --> 00:23:38.023
speak with each other and interact with each other. When I look at that program,
00:23:38.283 --> 00:23:42.383
it's like, oh, these are the physical skills that person has to have in order to participate.
00:23:42.723 --> 00:23:46.183
The cognitive skills, the memory, the recall, right?
00:23:46.583 --> 00:23:50.263
Because we look at physical, cognitive, social, and emotional skills that you
00:23:50.263 --> 00:23:52.603
need to participate in these programs.
00:23:53.263 --> 00:23:56.523
So what you see and what I see are very, very different.
00:23:56.923 --> 00:24:02.163
And why this is so powerful is we can use these recreation and leisure activities,
00:24:02.383 --> 00:24:05.803
they're the vehicle that we use to get the outcomes that we want.
00:24:05.963 --> 00:24:08.543
So at the end of the day, really, to me in the ice cream program,
00:24:08.743 --> 00:24:11.843
if the ice cream worked, you know, we could eat it was kind of neither here
00:24:11.843 --> 00:24:14.443
nor there – it was added bonus, actually, if we could, if it was good! –
00:24:14.883 --> 00:24:18.983
but it was about, one, them communicating with each other, them interacting
00:24:18.983 --> 00:24:22.383
with each other and using those skills that were required, right?
00:24:22.663 --> 00:24:26.623
We're focusing on overlearned skills. We're not trying to teach them something
00:24:26.623 --> 00:24:29.823
new so that they could go, oh, I can remember doing this,
00:24:29.883 --> 00:24:31.963
you know, when I was a kid or in my adult life, right?
00:24:32.383 --> 00:24:35.163
So it's really important that we're able to see that.
00:24:35.343 --> 00:24:41.083
So kind of coming back to these labs, when the students are looking at each
00:24:41.083 --> 00:24:46.983
other's presentations, it's not just, oh, hey, that was a great literary activity,
00:24:46.983 --> 00:24:49.163
or that was a great reminiscing group.
00:24:49.783 --> 00:24:54.563
They're also looking at it and analyzing, like, that was so good how you used those skills.
00:24:54.583 --> 00:24:57.363
Or if you were going to run it again, had you thought about this?
00:24:57.363 --> 00:24:59.963
You could really focus on the social domain.
00:25:00.627 --> 00:25:05.767
So it's so important that they're able to see that and to be able to recognize
00:25:05.767 --> 00:25:07.927
it. And then as a whole group, we talk about it.
00:25:08.107 --> 00:25:11.787
The feedback I give to the student that's presenting before we come to the labs,
00:25:11.967 --> 00:25:17.787
I write out all of my notes and then I send it to them 24 to 48 hours before we meet in the labs.
00:25:18.327 --> 00:25:22.747
So they also have feedback from me. I don't give that feedback in front of the group.
00:25:22.907 --> 00:25:27.027
But then we all sit there and we talk about what worked really well. What did you see?
00:25:27.287 --> 00:25:31.487
What did you notice that you didn't know before? And it's just such a powerful learning tool.
00:25:32.407 --> 00:25:36.507
And that was, I think, a major goal of the course was for them just to experience
00:25:36.507 --> 00:25:40.287
a whole bunch of different activities like this and to push themselves outside their comfort zone.
00:25:40.547 --> 00:25:45.487
And so, again, like in the in-person course, they're seeing their peers do so
00:25:45.487 --> 00:25:48.247
many different activities and they're going out and participating in so many activities.
00:25:48.847 --> 00:25:52.447
And so that having these lab groups meant that they weren't just getting the
00:25:52.447 --> 00:25:54.947
experience of the one that they chose, but they're getting the experience of
00:25:54.947 --> 00:25:58.547
the ones that their lab group chose as well. And they would do that three times
00:25:58.547 --> 00:25:59.867
over the course of the semester, not just once.
00:25:59.947 --> 00:26:03.187
So they got to, you know, learn and get feedback and then do it again and learn
00:26:03.187 --> 00:26:04.167
and get feedback and do it again.
00:26:04.607 --> 00:26:06.787
And yeah, that went really, really well.
00:26:07.687 --> 00:26:11.127
They also had the opportunity as well, even though they were in their specific
00:26:11.127 --> 00:26:17.687
labs that they had to give feedback on, they also had access to the rest of the class's videos.
00:26:18.207 --> 00:26:21.387
So they could go and watch the videos of their other students too.
00:26:21.467 --> 00:26:24.807
They didn't have to, you know, give the feedback or whatever they could if they wanted to.
00:26:24.807 --> 00:26:32.067
So, we were able to provide them with many examples of different types of programming
00:26:32.067 --> 00:26:36.667
that they, you know, more than likely would come in contact with or would need
00:26:36.667 --> 00:26:38.647
to know about to go out and practice.
00:26:39.427 --> 00:26:42.327
Yeah, I'm glad you explained that too as,
00:26:42.827 --> 00:26:45.467
you know, when they're watching these activities and the videos that they're
00:26:45.467 --> 00:26:50.047
really looking with a particular framework in mind or looking through a certain
00:26:50.047 --> 00:26:55.607
lens that, as you say, the rest of us wouldn't be observing with. So that's amazing.
00:26:55.967 --> 00:27:02.247
So did that really help the online students meet the outcomes for the course? I think so, for sure.
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:07.899
Because in the previous course, it was more theoretical, whether,
00:27:08.159 --> 00:27:11.999
you know, maybe talk about an example, but they weren't actually seeing it or doing it.
00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:16.979
And then this way, it was like lifetime, live feedback, looking at that.
00:27:17.139 --> 00:27:20.439
And in the way the videos that they had done too, not only with the program
00:27:20.439 --> 00:27:23.379
plans, but going out to the community and doing different things,
00:27:23.539 --> 00:27:25.399
it's like they really could see the skills.
00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:30.439
Yeah, and I think, you know, coming back to when we first started the... looking at this
00:27:30.439 --> 00:27:33.459
course and what we were going to do at first, the conversation was like,
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:34.939
well, what kind of tech tools could help us?
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:38.119
And I think by the end of the course, we did not use anything fancy.
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:41.159
It was very basic tools that we've had for a long time.
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:45.219
It was them recording themselves, doing a couple of things or taking photos
00:27:45.219 --> 00:27:47.139
of some different things and sharing them.
00:27:47.399 --> 00:27:50.359
It was having these online, you know, Zoom sessions.
00:27:50.959 --> 00:27:54.519
And then there was a couple of things where we had shared documents where they
00:27:54.519 --> 00:27:56.059
could all kind of contribute a part to this.
00:27:56.159 --> 00:27:58.659
Because that was some feedback we'd had from previous students in Kathie's course
00:27:58.659 --> 00:28:04.379
was that one of the things that they really valued was that they all would share
00:28:04.379 --> 00:28:05.619
their program plans that they made.
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:08.579
And then when they went off to their career, they had this collection of like
00:28:08.579 --> 00:28:12.579
50 program plans or whatever it was. And they said, I use that all the time.
00:28:12.739 --> 00:28:15.199
And so we tried to create some of those opportunities in the course too,
00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:19.679
where they could gather some, like here's a, you know, come up with a, there was a one on drama.
00:28:19.879 --> 00:28:22.959
And so it was like, come up, find a script online or find some sort of like
00:28:22.959 --> 00:28:27.019
drama activity, put it in this shared document and say like kind of what your
00:28:27.019 --> 00:28:27.759
thoughts are about this.
00:28:27.979 --> 00:28:31.019
And so there was a number of those in this, in the course that they,
00:28:31.159 --> 00:28:33.559
the students got to, to kind of co-create in this.
00:28:33.659 --> 00:28:36.439
And again, not for marks, it was just because it was valuable to them.
00:28:36.959 --> 00:28:40.559
And yeah, so in the end, we really didn't use anything fancy.
00:28:40.739 --> 00:28:43.719
It was just kind of the basic tools, but we were just trying to see how could
00:28:43.719 --> 00:28:46.799
we recreate, yeah, what was working in the in-course experience.
00:28:47.179 --> 00:28:48.779
We recently had students on
00:28:48.779 --> 00:28:54.399
the podcast talking about their WIL experiences and how powerful it was.
00:28:54.579 --> 00:28:57.259
You know, you learn one thing in a course, the theory maybe,
00:28:57.279 --> 00:29:02.579
but then when you're actually out in the real world and you have to do that
00:29:02.579 --> 00:29:04.199
situation, it's much different.
00:29:04.199 --> 00:29:08.579
And it sounds like for these students, that was very, very meaningful to be
00:29:08.579 --> 00:29:13.339
able to actually be out there engaging in the work environments.
00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:19.359
There was several of the students, too, that had expressed that it was more
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:21.419
their preferred way of learning as well.
00:29:21.639 --> 00:29:25.919
It's like to read something and, you know, a discussion or a test or whatever.
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:29.299
They, you know, some students would say, you know, that's, I don't do well in
00:29:29.299 --> 00:29:30.279
that kind of an environment,
00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:35.099
but they felt really strongly that they were learning these skills and what
00:29:35.099 --> 00:29:39.419
they were supposed to be learning by doing it and getting that feedback and
00:29:39.419 --> 00:29:42.159
doing it again and watching their, their peers...
00:29:42.785 --> 00:29:47.665
do this as well. And the students in this program, I mean, the job of rec therapist
00:29:47.665 --> 00:29:51.545
has such an emphasis on like on empathy and social interaction.
00:29:51.545 --> 00:29:55.505
And so to have that missing in the course, I think is like a big disservice to them.
00:29:55.565 --> 00:29:59.005
And also people are taking this course because they're interested in this, that kind of career.
00:29:59.145 --> 00:30:02.405
And so it is something that generally the students are wanting that,
00:30:02.545 --> 00:30:04.965
that kind of experience as well in their, in their education,
00:30:05.105 --> 00:30:08.165
not just, you know, multiple choice exams and discussion boards, whatever.
00:30:08.885 --> 00:30:14.285
Yeah, yeah, that leading by example. So what has been the feedback from students?
00:30:14.905 --> 00:30:18.025
I think I would get an email from Kathie kind of like every week,
00:30:18.105 --> 00:30:21.865
I feel like, about how things were going positively in the course.
00:30:22.045 --> 00:30:25.405
But then Kathie ended up asking some students for some testimonials because they
00:30:25.405 --> 00:30:29.405
were so positive in these kind of meetings. And yeah, do you want to speak to that?
00:30:29.685 --> 00:30:33.305
Yeah, they were amazing, the feedback from the students.
00:30:33.865 --> 00:30:37.805
And it was such a great learning experience for them. And I asked them questions
00:30:37.805 --> 00:30:40.045
at our very last lab as well.
00:30:40.245 --> 00:30:42.265
It was kind of like, what did you like about the course? Like,
00:30:42.325 --> 00:30:44.085
what would you change? What do you think about this?
00:30:44.745 --> 00:30:50.365
And for the most part, all gave super positive feedback on their experience.
00:30:50.785 --> 00:30:53.545
You know, there was a few little things like, oh, if we could have,
00:30:53.605 --> 00:30:55.905
you know, another week, it was like timing things or whatever.
00:30:56.445 --> 00:31:00.125
Loved them. They loved the activities. They felt that they were appropriate,
00:31:00.125 --> 00:31:05.205
that they were really what they were doing in practice. A lot of our DL students
00:31:05.205 --> 00:31:06.945
are working in the field already.
00:31:07.445 --> 00:31:12.105
And so they go, we've taken all of this with us. This was the most meaningful
00:31:12.105 --> 00:31:14.465
course to them in their program so far.
00:31:14.625 --> 00:31:21.445
So I was definitely very, very excited about that with my weekly emails to Craig.
00:31:23.365 --> 00:31:26.925
That's amazing. That's wonderful feedback to get. That's fantastic.
00:31:27.625 --> 00:31:35.085
So given the feedback and kind of reflection, are there things that you have plans to change?
00:31:35.905 --> 00:31:41.325
Not a ton from what I've heard from Kathie, which is, I think, in my role...
00:31:42.778 --> 00:31:46.238
somewhat unique and especially like when you're making a
00:31:46.238 --> 00:31:48.938
new online course or like this was a revision but it
00:31:48.938 --> 00:31:52.758
was a significantly different revision. You kind of expect when you teach a course
00:31:52.758 --> 00:31:55.518
for the first time that it's going to change a lot the second time you teach
00:31:55.518 --> 00:31:58.938
it and the third time you teach it and then it'll eventually settle out but
00:31:58.938 --> 00:32:02.198
I think because I was able to work with Kathie who's taught this this in-person
00:32:02.198 --> 00:32:05.778
course for so long and has so much things that are working her in-person course
00:32:05.778 --> 00:32:08.678
was working so that was kind of what we used as our standard.
00:32:09.398 --> 00:32:16.698
And so, you know, this not needing to change things is, yeah, a little bit unique.
00:32:16.698 --> 00:32:20.738
And I think it speaks to the importance of like working with instruct– or, when
00:32:20.738 --> 00:32:23.278
you're building a course, but like having instructors who are really experienced
00:32:23.278 --> 00:32:27.478
in the classroom and like see all that student interaction and feedback. Yeah.
00:32:27.998 --> 00:32:32.518
I think that that really helped develop this course the way it is as well.
00:32:32.698 --> 00:32:37.578
We had so many resources available to us. Another nice feature in this course,
00:32:37.738 --> 00:32:41.678
because I've taught it for so long, I've taken a lot of photos and videos of
00:32:41.678 --> 00:32:45.718
students, you know, doing these programs or were out on outings.
00:32:45.898 --> 00:32:51.078
So we were able to add this 'students in action' component to each one of the
00:32:51.078 --> 00:32:55.478
weekly modules of students that they could see, you know, their campus-based
00:32:55.478 --> 00:32:59.118
classmates or whatever doing these activities and what they were doing,
00:32:59.278 --> 00:33:01.498
whether it was a video or photographs or whatever.
00:33:01.698 --> 00:33:06.458
And I think that also helped in encouraging them, the DL students,
00:33:06.738 --> 00:33:10.178
to want to do these learning activities that we carefully created.
00:33:10.638 --> 00:33:17.118
It was just a great experience. And one, I never thought we were going to be
00:33:17.118 --> 00:33:21.178
able to replicate the campus course. And I really think we did.
00:33:21.318 --> 00:33:28.098
In fact, I told Craig after I've taken some of the DL aspects and moved it into the campus course.
00:33:28.769 --> 00:33:32.729
Other than a few little things around maybe some timing and when I'm releasing
00:33:32.729 --> 00:33:37.029
content, there's absolutely nothing that we're changing in the course.
00:33:37.029 --> 00:33:40.489
And we'll run the same one come September this year.
00:33:40.629 --> 00:33:42.849
So we're excited about that to see how this group does.
00:33:43.009 --> 00:33:46.609
You know, we have other online courses. So is this something that,
00:33:46.769 --> 00:33:50.149
you know, other instructors or other areas, are there things from this that
00:33:50.149 --> 00:33:51.589
they could take away as well?
00:33:51.749 --> 00:33:54.869
What advice would you give them? One, work with CTLI.
00:33:55.169 --> 00:33:56.829
It was an amazing experience.
00:33:57.429 --> 00:34:01.629
The other thing that was really great that enabled us to do this is I was given
00:34:01.629 --> 00:34:05.389
like the time, the release time or whatever, to be able to work on it.
00:34:05.609 --> 00:34:08.429
When you're working full time and to try and do something off the side of your
00:34:08.429 --> 00:34:11.929
desk, which we've done over years before, just isn't effective.
00:34:12.469 --> 00:34:16.349
So it was like everything came together perfectly. We were paired up with CTLI
00:34:16.349 --> 00:34:18.029
and Craig and I met regularly.
00:34:18.509 --> 00:34:21.549
And we would meet for chunks of time, like for three or four hours.
00:34:22.209 --> 00:34:27.489
And we'd go away with homework of things that we need to do before we met again. and it just worked well.
00:34:27.649 --> 00:34:32.189
The template that he recommended that we use worked well.
00:34:32.409 --> 00:34:35.109
All of the pieces just came together so nicely.
00:34:35.509 --> 00:34:39.949
Yeah, I think that's something that we've noticed in like the instructional
00:34:39.949 --> 00:34:43.489
design piece is that when we have instructors who actually have the time to
00:34:43.489 --> 00:34:47.649
dedicate to the project, everything just goes so much smoother because we understand
00:34:47.649 --> 00:34:48.549
that instructors are busy.
00:34:48.729 --> 00:34:52.369
And so it's very difficult for them to, you know, take a large chunk of time
00:34:52.369 --> 00:34:56.829
and, you know, and it ends up being kind of like a small piece here and there so.
00:34:57.783 --> 00:35:01.023
Kathie getting the time to actually sit down and work on this where we could
00:35:01.023 --> 00:35:03.463
get together for like a full morning a week or something like that.
00:35:03.723 --> 00:35:07.663
That made a huge difference in being able to do this because some of these things,
00:35:07.803 --> 00:35:11.883
yeah, it would have either taken us a long, long time to do or it just wouldn't
00:35:11.883 --> 00:35:12.943
have come together as well.
00:35:13.003 --> 00:35:16.023
I don't think if we would have just been meeting for an hour a week or something.
00:35:16.263 --> 00:35:21.683
But another piece was being able to work with Kathie who's taught the in-person course for so long.
00:35:22.023 --> 00:35:24.943
That made a huge difference on my end because I could
00:35:24.943 --> 00:35:28.383
ask Kathie so many questions about like what is
00:35:28.383 --> 00:35:31.083
working about this lesson in class or and she would have
00:35:31.083 --> 00:35:33.943
so many comments about like well when we do this this wouldn't work or
00:35:33.943 --> 00:35:38.723
you know this is what would happen and so the difference between that and either
00:35:38.723 --> 00:35:41.883
creating a course like a brand brand new online course when there isn't an in-person
00:35:41.883 --> 00:35:45.183
component to it that's a challenge because you don't know how students are going
00:35:45.183 --> 00:35:48.063
to respond to different things or what's what's difficult for them to learn
00:35:48.063 --> 00:35:52.603
and and so on but then also having Kathie who's taught the course so many times.
00:35:52.743 --> 00:35:55.683
It was just like, it was an incredible resource for me to be able to ask all
00:35:55.683 --> 00:35:57.483
these questions about the course.
00:35:57.623 --> 00:36:02.203
And she also had so many resources available that when we were trying to design
00:36:02.203 --> 00:36:04.663
a page, too many resources.
00:36:04.803 --> 00:36:08.883
Kathie's laughing because she came in with, I think, four or so binders full
00:36:08.883 --> 00:36:10.243
of resources when we first started.
00:36:10.603 --> 00:36:13.923
And so when we were coming up with ideas for a lesson, you know.
00:36:14.443 --> 00:36:17.263
Kathie had probably like 10 different things that we could use and we were able to go from that.
00:36:17.363 --> 00:36:21.223
And so if we were starting from scratch, it would have been a much more difficult process for sure.
00:36:21.463 --> 00:36:26.083
It sounds like a kind of a perfect combination to bring this together.
00:36:26.423 --> 00:36:30.683
It was. And the format, because of the courses I'd worked on previous.
00:36:31.483 --> 00:36:33.663
Were just like page after page after page.
00:36:33.943 --> 00:36:37.163
And so the template that we used and the format that we used...
00:36:37.843 --> 00:36:41.383
Was so much better. It was user-friendly.
00:36:41.463 --> 00:36:46.523
It was very consistent in resources for the student, the lesson,
00:36:47.103 --> 00:36:51.863
any sort of required reads or anything that they had to do that was required
00:36:51.863 --> 00:36:54.503
for sure for the lesson, and then a learning activity.
00:36:54.723 --> 00:37:00.583
So the format wasn't as intimidating because when you originally opened up the
00:37:00.583 --> 00:37:04.163
DL course, it went on for miles and miles and miles of pages.
00:37:04.503 --> 00:37:08.483
And I think that that really helped students as well not feel overwhelmed.
00:37:08.483 --> 00:37:12.803
Because I think if you opened up a course that had as many pages and was as
00:37:12.803 --> 00:37:15.503
long as it was, what would be intimidating for sure.
00:37:15.723 --> 00:37:18.703
Yeah. And I think that's actually one thing we didn't comment on earlier is
00:37:18.703 --> 00:37:24.263
a change that we made was going from primarily text information to having Kathie
00:37:24.263 --> 00:37:27.923
record like her in-person lectures, which was something new for Kathie and can
00:37:27.923 --> 00:37:28.823
be intimidating at first.
00:37:28.983 --> 00:37:32.543
But again, because Kathie's taught this course for so long, those
00:37:32.543 --> 00:37:35.463
things actually came together quite quickly where it says well just use your
00:37:35.463 --> 00:37:39.823
PowerPoint from in class and just record yourself talking through it because
00:37:39.823 --> 00:37:43.463
most instructors who've done that you know taught a course for a long time they
00:37:43.463 --> 00:37:47.243
can just open it up and do it and have it done almost in you know less than
00:37:47.243 --> 00:37:51.603
an hour or something like that. And so it meant too that the students were getting,
00:37:52.163 --> 00:37:55.623
like that more connection with their instructor and they're able to hear more
00:37:55.623 --> 00:38:00.403
of Kathie's stories from in the field than just kind of reading more of like
00:38:00.403 --> 00:38:02.023
a textbook-style course.
00:38:02.708 --> 00:38:06.988
I can really see how that would be meaningful because you do need those stories
00:38:06.988 --> 00:38:10.228
sometimes to make that connection with the theory.
00:38:10.388 --> 00:38:12.948
And as well, even just hearing someone's voice, you can hear the inflection
00:38:12.948 --> 00:38:16.268
and, you know, which things are important that you want to emphasize.
00:38:16.368 --> 00:38:21.228
And so that's really fantastic for the online students to be able to have that.
00:38:21.908 --> 00:38:26.908
So with this whole project, it's just amazing and it's so exciting to hear about it.
00:38:26.908 --> 00:38:32.248
And so you went from kind of initially trying to bring an online course together
00:38:32.248 --> 00:38:36.848
with a face-to-face course and thinking maybe technology would be the solution.
00:38:36.848 --> 00:38:42.708
And through all of the work that you did, you arrived at the experiences that you've shared.
00:38:42.828 --> 00:38:48.068
And so what do you think kind of made this so successful? Two really big things
00:38:48.068 --> 00:38:51.448
were having, as we mentioned, I think that the time to develop it,
00:38:51.628 --> 00:38:56.208
like having the time and resources to develop it and the expertise of an instructor
00:38:56.208 --> 00:38:57.028
who's taught the course.
00:38:57.728 --> 00:39:00.708
And then, I mean, a lot of the things that we ended up doing,
00:39:00.848 --> 00:39:04.368
like I said, were simple things, I think, that could be replicated without a lot of effort.
00:39:04.608 --> 00:39:07.688
Like, it doesn't take a lot of effort to record yourself doing your PowerPoints
00:39:07.688 --> 00:39:08.968
that you've done a whole lot of times.
00:39:09.148 --> 00:39:12.748
I think that's pretty reasonable for any instructor to do. Or lots of the learning
00:39:12.748 --> 00:39:16.408
activities where they took a little bit of time to think about what they would
00:39:16.408 --> 00:39:18.868
be, but then, you know, they don't require any upkeep.
00:39:19.108 --> 00:39:24.828
The thing that is more difficult is the small group labs that Kathie was able to do.
00:39:24.948 --> 00:39:28.488
That was only possible because she has a small class size. I believe the class
00:39:28.488 --> 00:39:31.568
size was around 16 students, something somewhere around there.
00:39:31.868 --> 00:39:34.708
And also she had like a teaching load that allowed that.
00:39:34.828 --> 00:39:39.088
So she was able to, you know, three times in the semester do four or five different
00:39:39.088 --> 00:39:44.788
short Zoom calls, which if you had classes of 50 plus online students and you
00:39:44.788 --> 00:39:47.368
had to teach seven or eight online courses or something like that,
00:39:47.428 --> 00:39:48.688
it wouldn't be possible.
00:39:48.948 --> 00:39:52.008
And so, yeah, I think having...
00:39:53.003 --> 00:39:57.263
programs, helping their instructors by giving them the time to develop a quality
00:39:57.263 --> 00:40:01.883
course, and then also having them with workloads that allow for quality online teaching.
00:40:02.103 --> 00:40:05.303
Because as soon as your class sizes are a certain size, you're very limited
00:40:05.303 --> 00:40:08.623
into what kinds of experiences that you can do online, I suppose.
00:40:09.643 --> 00:40:14.403
And Kathie, would you like to add to that? Especially with that small lab group,
00:40:14.443 --> 00:40:15.523
because that really was key.
00:40:16.383 --> 00:40:21.263
And we were able to book, we'd book four nights in a row. and each lab I'd have
00:40:21.263 --> 00:40:25.323
students sign up and it's like, okay, you're group one and two and three and four.
00:40:25.623 --> 00:40:28.503
And then we would meet for two hours, all of us together.
00:40:28.963 --> 00:40:34.563
So being that the way my workload was, I was able to have a full week that I
00:40:34.563 --> 00:40:38.263
had two hour labs, you know, four days out of that week in the evening too,
00:40:38.443 --> 00:40:40.263
because that worked best with the DL students.
00:40:41.203 --> 00:40:44.363
If I wouldn't have had that support, like the time to work on the course,
00:40:44.543 --> 00:40:48.943
to have the expertise of Craig and how he knows how to design things,
00:40:49.103 --> 00:40:52.863
and the small group sizes, it would have been a very, very different story.
00:40:53.163 --> 00:40:55.483
It was like everything came together perfectly.
00:40:56.003 --> 00:41:00.583
And yeah, the outcome was amazing. Just amazing. Yeah, it really sounds like
00:41:00.583 --> 00:41:02.163
it did come together perfectly.
00:41:02.323 --> 00:41:04.503
That's wonderful. That's great to hear. Fantastic.
00:41:04.863 --> 00:41:11.303
Well, thank you so much for joining me today and for sharing the amazing work that you've done.
00:41:11.463 --> 00:41:14.243
It's just so exciting and it's so wonderful for the students.
00:41:14.403 --> 00:41:19.543
Such a great experience for the students in the Therapeutic Recreation Gerontology Program.
00:41:20.063 --> 00:41:24.983
Thank you very much for having us. Yeah, we clearly enjoy sharing about this.
00:41:25.103 --> 00:41:27.083
Yes, we do. Thank you for giving us that opportunity.
00:41:27.643 --> 00:41:34.143
This episode featured Donna McLaughlin as host and Craig McCarthy and Kathie Ervin as guests.
00:41:34.863 --> 00:41:39.503
Jordana Gagnon was our producer. Ryan Robinson was our sound technician and editor.
00:41:40.203 --> 00:41:44.123
Our podcast is funded by Lethbridge Polytechnic's Center for Teaching,
00:41:44.363 --> 00:41:49.463
Learning, and Innovation, and recorded on the traditional lands of the Blackfoot Confederacy.
00:41:49.883 --> 00:41:54.343
For more episodes, head to our website, learninginnovation.ca.
00:41:54.983 --> 00:41:56.663
Thanks for listening and take care.