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[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, and welcome to Learning Defline, a podcast about what it takes to win.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The path to success is never straight line, and there's always a story behind it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Each episode will host leaders in business, music, sports and entertainment, and will discuss the obstacles they overcame to compete, triumph, and eventually dominate.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Bruce Midman, CEO of Midcom, a full-service ad agency in Boston, and also co-founder of Community Broadcasters, a network of 36 radio stations along these coasts.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Over the last 40-plus years, I've traveled to more than 40 countries, and I've seen firsthand what drives the best of the best.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So join me on a journey as we learn together what it takes to fly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Today, we joined by a claimed painter Thomas Dunlay, a mass-choose its native whose dedication to traditional craftsmanship has made him an admired artist in the New England, art world and far beyond.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Tom's journey into art began early when as a child he is introduced to painting by his father, an amateur painter.
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[SPEAKER_01]: After studying for a time at the Massachusetts College of Art, he left to pursue the more traditional discipline he was seeking, as it was no longer a part of the curriculum.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He found sound training studying under renowned artist Roger Douglas Hunter, done by himself later became a teacher, founding that Thomas R. Dunlake teaching studios in Norwood.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He offers instruction in drawing and painting based on the Boston tradition, and also continues to lead workshops, such as summer sessions around New England, and locations like Nantucket.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Over the decades, Tom's commitment to technique and tradition has earned him numerous honors, including multiple grants from the ET Green Shields Moral Foundation.
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[SPEAKER_01]: to John Singleton, Company Awards, and recognition from Miyagi magazine and the Jordan Marsh doing that arts exhibition.
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[SPEAKER_01]: His paintings are included in numerous public corporate and private collections worldwide.
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[SPEAKER_01]: His work continues to balance portrait, local landscape, and figure painting.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And he can often be found painting outdoors in the beach or in the villages of Nantucket.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Tom, welcome!
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me, Bruce, it's a great pleasure to be here, and you're not 100% right on that, you know, the graphic arts and commercial arts are, you know, they're pretty closely related, you know, when one came out of the other.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, the art was the original former communication, you know, before we have video and digital and all sorts of other mediums.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But let's focus on Tom Dunlick, you know, very few people become artists and are successful at it, especially in the fine arts, which is a much more difficult path.
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[SPEAKER_01]: to have some success in.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So let's let's talk about the beginnings of this passion and focus and tell us how you got started.
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[SPEAKER_00]: my story is kind of interesting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I grew up in Wayne with Massachusetts, middle class family.
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[SPEAKER_00]: My father was a woman in the factory.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe maybe one of the two or three most talented people I've ever seen.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He drew incredibly well.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When did he start to get you excited about painting?
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[SPEAKER_01]: How old were you when you first started?
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's my earliest memory.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know,
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[SPEAKER_01]: growing up and you're starting to recognize and everybody else starting to recognize a little bit.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What did you do to get yourself a little more ingrained in that as a direction or was it a direction in your mind?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Did you feel like I want to be an artist?
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[SPEAKER_00]: No, actually, you know, starting in the sixth grade, I became more interested in basketball.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I thought of pursuing that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Once it came time to graduate from my school, I had to make a decision.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Really, actually, at the last minute, I decided to apply to Mass College of Art.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But actually, I was too late.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There already closed the admissions, but fortunately, I had a friend who had recently graduated.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and was a extremely well-thought of graduate in the industrial design field.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So he talked to a few people and got you in minutes and get me in.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What year was this?
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[SPEAKER_00]: 1969.
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[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so that's a height of Vietnam, it's a very growing up at the same Paris at Northeastern down the street, by the way, and it was a very cool period, a lot of new music being introduced.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We all thought we were hot tickets, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and so being in art school was kind of a, you will wear most of the people wanted to be.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I was, except I wasn't interested in doing what they wanted to do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to learn how to paint portraits.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to learn how to paint still lives, figures, landscapes, you know, things of that sort.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I saw on your resume, you left there because you weren't able to accomplish what you were hoping to in terms of building a, I did stay, you know, I knew immediately, this was not the place for me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I stayed for 18 months for lack of any other, anything you came away with from that 18 months.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I probably stretch Candace better than anybody on the planet.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I did learn that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there is a skill on some level.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: 50 years prior to that, it was one of the two or three leading schools in the country.
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[SPEAKER_00]: for, you know, becoming a portrait painter, figure painter.
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[SPEAKER_01]: For those of you just, we were having conversation before Tom came aboard.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I told him how much I enjoyed the book, a journey.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Great, a journey.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The Great of Journey, Americans in Paris, which was an amazing book by David McCuller, about which I never knew about the fact that Americans learned art,
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[SPEAKER_01]: by going to basically going and writing literature, going to France, and frankly, sitting in a class is not even being accepted to schools, and that's how American art was born.
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[SPEAKER_00]: In a pair of Paris, from the 18th of, was it 1820s to 1880s to 1820s to 1890s to 1890s to 1890s to the Paris,
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[SPEAKER_00]: What's interesting, you were talking about the Americans going to Paris to study, it wasn't just the Americans, they were colonies, it was the American colony, there was the Argentina colony, there were the Australians, all the schools of art thought were created from this one on cliff.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Right, interesting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: by walking down the street and just listening to what was going on.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I thought through those muscles.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was such an extraordinary place.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, drawing was tired of the tire's level pain.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, some of the greatest painters who have ever lived, you know, John Sagen.
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[SPEAKER_01]: well you see sergeant stuff you know in his book he talks about sergeant a lot right and then you go to the museum of foreign arts and they're sergeant everywhere right exactly and sergeant considered one of the best American painters yes even though he it was an expatriate uh yeah he's one of the the top two or three you know American painters he wins a little homework
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[SPEAKER_00]: Frank Pence in the Edmund Tawbell, but Sergeant went to Paris to study with the great French painter, Carol, as Durran, and Carol as Durran taught quite a number of American painters.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But the interesting thing, I'm not sure that McCollum makes this point, is that many of those painters that went to Paris to study were all from Boston.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He talked a lot about New Englanders there, Bostonians, Rhode Islanders.
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[SPEAKER_00]: People at Child Hassan?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Frank Benson, the Edmontobel Joseph de Cane, Frank Duvenak.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Boston had was just loaded with skills.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You left college because he did not for what you were hoping.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, while I was there, I started the search.
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[SPEAKER_00]: OK. And as we all know, there was no winner net then.
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[SPEAKER_00]: All I really, what I was, I knew my history extremely well, I'd always been interested in that history.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So if you do the math, you know, Monet died in 1924, Sergeant died in 1925, here we are 1969, 1970, only 45 years.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, if you do the math, someone had to be around who was a young man who would study with them with them a great point.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I searched and the only real research I had was the little tiny black and white ads in the back of American artists magazine, you know, so and so, you know, painters
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I really searched in the country, I went over the place, you know, New York and whatnot.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I couldn't find anybody that really resonated with what I wanted.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was very familiar with Sergeant, just getting back to my father.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I remember it's probably six years old he introduced me to Sergeant's work for us through the
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[SPEAKER_00]: encyclopedia of botanica and then we went to the NFA and saw his work and it just resonated with me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It meant an impression on my brain, you know, that, you know, it's yeah, the light in those paintings are amazing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, it really, really was.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I searched everywhere, I met with several very well-known contemporary painters at that time, but nothing quite resonated.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I've always been interested in paintings, all the paintings, by that time I had actually come to the decision to be an ideal.
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[SPEAKER_00]: dealing in older pictures, you know, and what year was this?
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[SPEAKER_00]: This was probably 71, okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, going on for that time frame and that was the time when, you know, things were starting to come out of addicts from the previous, you know, two previous generations.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So good good pictures were beginning to, you know, surface, things that, you know,
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, families might have bought in the teens or 20s or early.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Was the 60s were experimental, the 70s were a little more back to a little more depth, the tradition, it was a big shift in America.
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[SPEAKER_00]: In the by-centennial.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, I had made this decision, but one day I was walking up Newbury Street.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I stopped into the Company Society.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And there was a gentleman in there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: His name was Bill Pitt.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, University, to straight up all the way up.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Any, any, you know, right out in the middle of the street, and he said, look to the very end of the street.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a red brick building with all windows there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He says, there's a man there that you need to go meet his name as IRA chives, camel.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, I, you know, got his phone number, I called Mr. Gamble, made an appointment to come see him and when you came to these studios, they were two-level studios.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You entered on a balcony.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and you overlook this gigantic studio.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was probably 25 feet deep and with 36 feet long with 18 foot ceilings and just complete wall glass.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And if you, well, what you have to understand and that in Boston at the turn of the century, there was a properly in 1907.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There were probably over 300
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[SPEAKER_00]: serious professional like worldwide recognized artists.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So there was a tremendous demand for this kind of building.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't like today where people looked for an old factory and you know end up trying to use it, but there were very specific standards.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The Leo, you know the way it set north of east west.
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[SPEAKER_00]: you know the size it's an individual built us or uh well um was there a page of the arts at that time was there it was Boston I mean I think it was Cabot Cabot and Forbes silt it but it was built by the famous architect J. Holston Parker
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And every year of the Boston Architectural Center, they give an award.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's called the J.
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[SPEAKER_00]: House and Parker award, you know, for the newest, most interesting, you know, building in the city of Boston, interesting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But actually, at that time, 1907, there were minimum of seven studio buildings.
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[SPEAKER_00]: just like this in Boston.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was the grownman studios in coply square of the High Court street studios on St. Petal Street.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The Riverway Studios on the Riverway, which is now Wheelock College.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, Boston really was a senator, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I never recognized Boston as a senator of art in the turn of the century.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I just didn't perceive it that, Dad.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a lot of people will like my saying this, but it's the MFA is to blame, Museum of Fine Arts.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But Boston has a...
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think you could say that here, you know, I'm sure at the MFA is not a perfect institution by any means.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It certainly isn't, especially if you regard it to a territory.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It treats that period of art history, that period of painting and Boston.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They actually describe it as a regional curiosity, where a traditional standards lasted a little bit longer than the rest of society.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Basically saying that Boston didn't embrace modern, but not, and it really didn't until after the,
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, except a mass college of art.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I have this meeting with Mr. Gamble.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I enter on the balcony.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm overlooking the studio.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I can see it in my mind's eye right now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was a day's job a moment.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I had that strange odd feeling.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I've been here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen this in a dream.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I knew this was.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We've been for me to be here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I came down into a studio.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I was stunned, you know, by the work.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I sent you that essay here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm American old master.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And he really wants, I mean, he's extraordinary.
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[SPEAKER_00]: good, he was extraordinarily well trained and he was the last link in this country with that period of 19th century painting in Paris.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What's interesting is he had his training before World War 1 in this country at the museum school and he had also studied in Paris, but he was the only
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[SPEAKER_00]: that recognized what was happening in the 20s and early 30s that the traditional standards were going by.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So he continued that yeah, that tradition he made a commitment right that he was the knowledge that he had he was going to keep it alive.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You were there, got that experience.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I was in number of years there, yes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I did work with Bob Hunter, Mr. Campbell's student for a year.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then an opening came of the old Mr. Campbell.
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[SPEAKER_00]: With Mr. Gamel, and Bob Hunter, you recommended that I was ready.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What were you learning back then, certainly, was it specific mediums you were working in or did it direct you towards where you eventually ended up in terms of your art?
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[SPEAKER_00]: It did very much so, but what's interesting is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, learning to become a good painter, it's, it's really only a whole one thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's learning to see meaning learning to recognize shapes and then be able to put them down the way they actually are in nature.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, mediums, techniques, you know, all of that, that's all stuff that can be learned.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And which is your favorite, the obviously pain.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a, I'm a straight oil painter.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: you know, I do draw and in my teeth my own teaching now, the drawing is the main thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's the base.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's the base.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If you do draw first obviously, and then, right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm always been of, um,
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[SPEAKER_01]: and saturated by color, how you derive the, you know, I was looking at artists and watching them work and I see paint and colors and I don't see anything and then about 20 minutes later I come back and there's an image from all of these colors that I had, I didn't see so what, what is it in the,
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's very interesting, you know, I put a lot of emphasis, once my students get painting and actually working with the pigment on the canvas of painting a landscape or whatever a portrait or a still life color is it's actually very, very simple.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There was a quote from a very famous Russian painter who came to America, those that know a lot of that period at the turn of the century who recognizes name Nikolai Fetchin.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He said, there were three colors, red, yellow, and blue, every color that you see in nature is some combination of those three colors.
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[SPEAKER_00]: everybody knows it, but few understand it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So when I'm teaching, you know, my students to actually paint and work with the pigment, you know, what we do is we identify what's what's the base color, you know, like in the case of a portrait, you know, if you have to identify a color,
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, red is going to be the most dominant thing, but when you put straight red down, you know, it's going to be obviously too red.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to figure out what you have to add to that red, you know, to make it the color that is in front of you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You'll love there what was the next decision that you made towards a career.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, the period of study was really fascinating.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
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[SPEAKER_00]: My, Mr. Gamel, my, my teacher.
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[SPEAKER_00]: was highly criticized.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He was an incredible task master, you know, he didn't suffer fools.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He spoke six languages, he kept his, he liked to work.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he kept his diary in Italian.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And when we studied with him, I mean, it was, it was, it was boot camp.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It really, you know, it was, it was not, well, this is main focusing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: you know, the labor of it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He had no, but was there no emphasis on it?
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[SPEAKER_00]: What's there?
20:22.146 --> 20:24.249
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to draw for five days.
20:24.749 --> 20:26.772
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to do pains for six days.
20:26.873 --> 20:30.278
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, was there we had a six day week schedule.
20:30.478 --> 20:31.199
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
20:31.860 --> 20:35.826
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to report to him just before eight o'clock every morning.
20:36.507 --> 20:37.027
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
20:37.048 --> 20:42.135
[SPEAKER_00]: To align what we were going to be doing that morning.
20:42.115 --> 20:46.282
[SPEAKER_00]: from white plaster cast, reproductions of classical sculpture.
20:46.903 --> 20:59.263
[SPEAKER_00]: We do on charcoal paper, we learn how to handle the charcoal, we learn how to make really accurate drawings, you know, very highly sophisticated, beautifully, you know, rented drawings.
20:59.243 --> 21:09.445
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you're doing highly accurate sophisticated drawings, what's the key component to make sure that they are highly accurate drawings?
21:10.307 --> 21:14.316
[SPEAKER_00]: When you scan it, we weren't in a manner called site size.
21:14.296 --> 21:36.861
[SPEAKER_00]: where we would have the the object we would draw maybe six or seven feet in front of us and then our canvas or paper would be on a plane right beside the statue and then we would have a piece of tape on the floor seven or six or seven feet back and we would make all our observations from that point.
21:36.841 --> 21:40.124
[SPEAKER_00]: and we would walk up to the easel and we'd put a mark down.
21:40.705 --> 21:46.370
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we'd come back to that mark on the floor and look to see if that mark was right.
21:46.670 --> 21:48.172
[SPEAKER_00]: If it wasn't right, we would move it.
21:48.792 --> 21:54.438
[SPEAKER_00]: And we would repeat that process for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours.
21:54.818 --> 22:01.284
[SPEAKER_01]: One needs to like the solitude and relationship between you and a canvas.
22:01.464 --> 22:06.409
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you do, I think that's an important part of it.
22:06.608 --> 22:14.659
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I love working in my studio alone, you know, I don't, you know, feel the need to be chatting with someone, you know, all the time.
22:15.180 --> 22:23.912
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, in this, it really takes about four, about three to four years to master that.
22:24.734 --> 22:25.054
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
22:25.274 --> 22:34.928
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you can see shapes, once you understand values and meaning the degree of light and dark, that something is, you know, most people would call it the shading.
22:35.380 --> 22:44.659
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you can recognize how dark something is in relation to how light something is and get the scale of those things and the depth in the depth.
22:45.721 --> 22:51.313
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you can, you know, you have complete command over that skill, then you're ready for painting.
22:51.293 --> 22:53.515
[SPEAKER_00]: and paintings are a whole different matter.
22:54.376 --> 22:58.940
[SPEAKER_01]: You build this base of knowledge, obviously, it's the foundation for anything.
23:00.082 --> 23:02.504
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you learn when you start painting?
23:04.045 --> 23:09.671
[SPEAKER_01]: Painting is not a meticulous, usually, as meticulous as drawing.
23:10.392 --> 23:12.934
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the difference in terms of knowledge?
23:14.335 --> 23:17.098
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it needed to be successful.
23:17.129 --> 23:29.316
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I say this, I'm talking about this specific tradition that we're working and this way that, you know, and painting was taught at the turn of the century.
23:29.380 --> 23:43.902
[SPEAKER_01]: And as Boston method well known throughout the world, I mean, do people go, hey, that's the Boston method or is that something really regionally sort of There is a really there's a worldwide movement.
23:44.163 --> 23:45.906
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is a school of Boston.
23:46.186 --> 23:46.466
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:46.486 --> 23:46.587
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
23:46.607 --> 23:47.127
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:47.147 --> 23:55.320
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the influence my teacher had On the actually the current generation now
23:55.300 --> 24:11.513
[SPEAKER_00]: It's being felt by people who don't even fully understand, you know, and so the Boston method is landscapes, portraits, portrait, portrait figure, landscape, still life, still life, it's all fine art, all fine art.
24:11.814 --> 24:15.722
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll paint or, you know, illustrations.
24:15.702 --> 24:31.686
[SPEAKER_00]: oil painting, you know, oil paint, primary, primarily, although, you know, I have a number of friends who were trained by other students of students of Mr. Gamble who also do illustration who are very, very good at it.
24:31.666 --> 24:40.464
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the, I mean, a good painter should be able to, you know, and the style is real life in essence, right?
24:40.484 --> 24:40.945
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
24:41.065 --> 24:41.947
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
24:41.967 --> 24:42.889
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always real life.
24:42.969 --> 24:44.152
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always nature.
24:44.853 --> 24:45.434
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
24:45.454 --> 24:47.318
[SPEAKER_00]: But, Jancy, you're really a question.
24:47.358 --> 24:49.623
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what's the main focus of the painting?
24:49.903 --> 24:50.124
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
24:50.244 --> 24:52.729
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's to render.
24:52.709 --> 24:55.078
[SPEAKER_00]: to render nature of the way it appears.
24:55.760 --> 25:00.177
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll actually give you mode A's definition of impressionism.
25:01.161 --> 25:03.630
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the rendering of the object.
25:03.796 --> 25:07.323
[SPEAKER_00]: as it appears to the eye upon first glance.
25:08.585 --> 25:10.228
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what impressionism is.
25:10.248 --> 25:14.055
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do you capture first glance when you keep looking at something for hours?
25:14.516 --> 25:18.984
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was, and I know that feeling that you saw at the first glance.
25:19.105 --> 25:23.032
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, in Monet would work, you know, a very short amount of time on a picture.
25:23.593 --> 25:25.737
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's going back each day.
25:26.746 --> 25:34.237
[SPEAKER_00]: with a fresh eye working for a short period of time so that you keep that freshness of the original impression.
25:35.219 --> 25:35.459
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
25:35.479 --> 25:43.331
[SPEAKER_01]: What drove you after school after this not school, but this this training that you went through, what what didn't you need you would done.
25:43.371 --> 25:47.637
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very out and say hey, you done go go make it happen.
25:47.817 --> 25:51.623
[SPEAKER_00]: It was interesting and the in August of 78.
25:51.603 --> 25:54.908
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's been more than since 72 and May of 72.
25:55.309 --> 25:56.250
[SPEAKER_01]: Glad we got to 78.
25:56.270 --> 25:58.474
[SPEAKER_00]: We're getting here.
25:58.494 --> 26:13.136
[SPEAKER_00]: It's August of 78 and you know, I was doing some, you know, credible work under him, you know, he was giving me a approval on the work, which is, you know, but does he say you're done top?
26:13.557 --> 26:19.686
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you're, you're an artist and now go go make a living.
26:19.666 --> 26:30.168
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was kind of funny in the way I ended my studies with him in 1975, my wife, 74, my wife, and I decided to get married.
26:30.609 --> 26:33.996
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was very nervous because
26:34.313 --> 27:02.565
[SPEAKER_00]: he had not had I think we're all nervous but we got married but go ahead I wasn't nervous well my wife I was nervous about getting thrown out he had been teaching some sort of the program right I said you have to understand where he was coming from the teaching system had collapsed to the point where there really was virtually no one else doing what he was doing so he made a conscious decision he said
27:03.389 --> 27:06.514
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is part of the times, and people today won't approve of it.
27:07.015 --> 27:09.558
[SPEAKER_00]: But he primarily took male students.
27:10.700 --> 27:17.871
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't take women's students because he feared that he'd put all this time into the military and get married and give up pain.
27:19.574 --> 27:23.339
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the perspective back in the 70s.
27:23.359 --> 27:27.085
[SPEAKER_01]: In terms of hiring women, unfortunately, for that being.
27:27.105 --> 27:31.692
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was, but you have, you have to understand
27:32.718 --> 27:40.309
[SPEAKER_00]: this type of painting was very difficult to learn and if he was going to put the time and he wanted to get the maximum benefit out of it.
27:40.429 --> 27:49.802
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was exceedingly nervous that he would kick me out because you know thinking that I, you know, then I had to have to support myself.
27:51.304 --> 27:53.026
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd have to get a job and give him a painting.
27:53.306 --> 27:55.469
[SPEAKER_01]: And your wife would tell you time to make a living.
27:55.710 --> 27:56.291
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
27:56.551 --> 27:56.711
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
27:56.751 --> 27:58.033
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
27:58.013 --> 28:00.717
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, it's funny.
28:00.737 --> 28:05.563
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember, you know, back in those days, you know, people ask you what you're doing.
28:05.583 --> 28:09.889
[SPEAKER_00]: It says a little painter and people would say, but what do you do for work?
28:09.909 --> 28:10.029
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:10.049 --> 28:10.590
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:10.610 --> 28:11.511
[SPEAKER_00]: We got married.
28:11.871 --> 28:11.972
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:11.992 --> 28:16.097
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I continue with them just 78, but what happened in 78, we had a first kid.
28:16.818 --> 28:20.183
[SPEAKER_00]: And then all of a sudden, he called me in one day and he says congratulations.
28:20.243 --> 28:21.304
[SPEAKER_00]: You've graduated.
28:21.284 --> 28:29.320
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you're faced with reality, and you're out on your own, and it's winter, probably, never in summer.
28:30.182 --> 28:30.864
[SPEAKER_00]: When it's coming.
28:31.685 --> 28:31.785
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:31.805 --> 28:33.629
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we had a kid.
28:35.413 --> 28:41.385
[SPEAKER_00]: My wife, she did teach school in situate.
28:41.365 --> 28:43.068
[SPEAKER_00]: but she didn't go back.
28:43.468 --> 28:48.216
[SPEAKER_00]: So it really was all on me, you know, I had to make a living of painting.
28:48.456 --> 28:59.814
[SPEAKER_00]: And the one thing I did understand was, you know, probably around 1975, I realized that, you know, I had to develop the skills to make a living of painting.
29:01.437 --> 29:02.378
[SPEAKER_00]: You know,
29:02.358 --> 29:09.548
[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't live in this ideal world where I just painted what I wanted and did what I wanted.
29:10.910 --> 29:13.174
[SPEAKER_01]: So, there had to be a commercial component to it.
29:13.975 --> 29:15.517
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
29:15.537 --> 29:19.403
[SPEAKER_00]: I always enjoyed meeting people talking about what I'm doing.
29:19.463 --> 29:29.277
[SPEAKER_01]: Was that how you got your first assignment by someone said, hey, you're talented Tom, can you
29:29.257 --> 29:31.660
[SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of interesting.
29:31.680 --> 29:39.952
[SPEAKER_00]: It was an ideal around the South Shore who dealt in 19th century pictures, turning the century pictures.
29:40.052 --> 29:47.703
[SPEAKER_00]: And she had some paintings that I was interested in because they were paintings by my teachers teachers.
29:48.064 --> 29:54.232
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had called her up and she saw my work and she was exceedingly interested.
29:54.312 --> 29:55.534
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had,
29:55.514 --> 29:56.536
[SPEAKER_00]: I had just finished.
29:56.556 --> 30:00.042
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have a gallery or your work at the house?
30:00.422 --> 30:03.988
[SPEAKER_00]: At that time, I had a studio at the Fenway Studios in Boston.
30:04.008 --> 30:11.742
[SPEAKER_00]: We had this magnificent studio, one of the corner studios in that particular building, where we're unbelievable.
30:12.042 --> 30:17.792
[SPEAKER_00]: They were two better apartments with a kitchen, a dining room, a dining room, and a magnificent studio.
30:17.812 --> 30:18.433
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
30:18.413 --> 30:22.619
[SPEAKER_00]: It made me actually look very, very good, much better than I was.
30:22.639 --> 30:24.021
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was a good presentation.
30:24.101 --> 30:25.563
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a great presentation.
30:26.163 --> 30:26.304
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
30:26.344 --> 30:33.934
[SPEAKER_00]: So she came to the studio, she saw the still life that I had just finished and offered to, you know, buy it for $600.
30:34.094 --> 30:36.778
[SPEAKER_01]: And back then, that was a significant amount of money.
30:36.918 --> 30:38.059
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a good sale.
30:38.360 --> 30:40.843
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a good month's rented stuff, sure.
30:40.823 --> 30:42.867
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it got us through.
30:43.288 --> 30:47.136
[SPEAKER_00]: And so she asked me, you know, anything you do, you know, I'll buy it.
30:47.317 --> 30:48.700
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was a still life.
30:48.720 --> 30:50.042
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a still life painting.
30:50.063 --> 30:50.864
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
30:50.884 --> 30:51.806
[SPEAKER_00]: That first painting.
30:51.826 --> 31:01.667
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to thought that your, your, you would be asked to do a lot of portraits because that would be commercially I would think a fast way to turn some money.
31:01.647 --> 31:05.732
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did do a lot of portraits, but this deal came back to me.
31:06.152 --> 31:10.758
[SPEAKER_00]: I finished another one, and I call it, I said I got another still there.
31:10.978 --> 31:13.461
[SPEAKER_00]: But this time, I was much smarter.
31:13.541 --> 31:18.867
[SPEAKER_00]: I put a beautiful 23-carot gold frame on the picture.
31:18.887 --> 31:19.488
[SPEAKER_01]: That's so nice.
31:19.508 --> 31:20.208
[SPEAKER_01]: It charts so many.
31:20.949 --> 31:21.991
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was interesting.
31:22.031 --> 31:23.933
[SPEAKER_00]: And I learned a really valuable lesson.
31:25.314 --> 31:29.359
[SPEAKER_00]: The frame at that time, you know, would today would probably cost
31:29.997 --> 31:36.834
[SPEAKER_00]: $1800 across me a hundred dollars for that frame and the picture was the same size and it was the same quality.
31:37.596 --> 31:40.684
[SPEAKER_00]: I sold the picture the second one for $1200.
31:40.744 --> 31:46.538
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also realized that
31:46.518 --> 31:55.792
[SPEAKER_00]: The most important thing, most painters today don't realize that you have to be in command and control of your own market and your own business.
31:59.437 --> 32:00.399
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like any business.
32:01.821 --> 32:05.907
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to have a specific product that people can identify and has value.
32:06.909 --> 32:11.175
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have to market it, sell it, package it the way that you think.
32:11.155 --> 32:17.162
[SPEAKER_01]: It best represents your skillset and the desirability of the market plan.
32:17.182 --> 32:30.016
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, tragically in the outwell, we have this very inefficient gallery system, which does not work at all for the artists, but yet people keep going back to it.
32:30.377 --> 32:31.718
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no other business.
32:31.959 --> 32:36.724
[SPEAKER_01]: Online business has not become a better source of independence for an artist.
32:36.940 --> 32:44.436
[SPEAKER_00]: It is, you know, people are beginning to realize that, but the gallery system is still like the key system.
32:44.576 --> 32:46.780
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the system most people use.
32:47.863 --> 32:51.129
[SPEAKER_00]: It works for certain people, but the average person doesn't work.
32:51.350 --> 32:56.721
[SPEAKER_01]: You were painting for years and making living, not your own gallery, but you know,
32:56.701 --> 32:58.624
[SPEAKER_00]: Just, you know, it's interesting.
32:58.644 --> 32:59.786
[SPEAKER_00]: Just networking.
32:59.806 --> 33:00.186
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
33:00.206 --> 33:05.094
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, just, you know, making sure you, you know, you meet the right people.
33:05.895 --> 33:07.137
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
33:07.157 --> 33:10.983
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you get known as well because people say, hey, Tom, Tom's pretty good.
33:11.023 --> 33:12.185
[SPEAKER_01]: You might want to look at his work.
33:12.245 --> 33:23.923
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I know I was introduced to you with a continuing connection here, my friend Ernie,
33:23.903 --> 33:26.169
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's a wonderful patron.
33:26.510 --> 33:29.679
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know he's a great patron for a lot of people.
33:29.879 --> 33:31.764
[SPEAKER_00]: He's an amazing guy.
33:31.804 --> 33:32.145
[SPEAKER_00]: He does.
33:32.506 --> 33:34.732
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, people don't give him credit.
33:34.853 --> 33:36.317
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just enough credit.
33:36.457 --> 33:37.520
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:37.560 --> 33:39.465
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially with the music drives us there.
33:39.445 --> 33:53.343
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, all of his foundations, but despite you today, but I walked in, I saw one, the painting, the one with a snowing, it's my favorite painting years, by the way.
33:55.285 --> 34:01.413
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a quality to it, a softness to it.
34:01.673 --> 34:02.895
[SPEAKER_01]: Quite a quietness.
34:03.095 --> 34:07.140
[SPEAKER_01]: And a Bostonian feel that
34:07.120 --> 34:10.967
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone in the winter that's walked through Boston, downtown.
34:11.188 --> 34:11.648
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thank you.
34:11.749 --> 34:13.512
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's what I was talking about.
34:13.572 --> 34:16.698
[SPEAKER_01]: I felt that moment and I love that painting.
34:16.718 --> 34:20.585
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's also representative of your style.
34:21.106 --> 34:26.235
[SPEAKER_01]: So talk a little bit about the style you've because to me, again, I'm a novice.
34:26.255 --> 34:28.460
[SPEAKER_01]: Please excuse me, I'm not an art critic, brandy means.
34:29.782 --> 34:30.343
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know,
34:30.323 --> 34:31.265
[SPEAKER_01]: That's an advantage.
34:31.445 --> 34:51.927
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, it probably is on some level, but you know, what is the, what, describe the Tom Dudley style, not, I understand you're, you know, you're in the Boston School of Art, but describe your sense of style and how you go about achieving that style as you develop stuff for people.
34:52.008 --> 35:05.344
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the way I like my work to be known or if people want to know what I was thinking, what my intentions were, what my concept was for a picture.
35:05.384 --> 35:16.637
[SPEAKER_00]: It's that classic view that isn't gutsyed up with lots of silly nonsense anecdotal.
35:16.838 --> 35:21.323
[SPEAKER_00]: It's that moment walking through the public
35:21.303 --> 35:31.396
[SPEAKER_01]: But you have this softest to your paintings, and this sense of light, that always light seems to be the star.
35:32.457 --> 35:33.018
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I correct?
35:34.040 --> 35:37.003
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and how the light falls over the floor?
35:37.023 --> 35:42.190
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've noticed that seems to be a signature for you, in terms of everything I see.
35:42.230 --> 35:50.601
[SPEAKER_01]: The focuses around the light and the rest is sort of
35:50.581 --> 35:59.089
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think most of us, you know, our lives are so busy and we're walking around, you know, whether it's a public garden in Boston or deep in hill or.
35:59.204 --> 36:03.608
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you're having this painting down here right now, I obviously know what you can see here.
36:04.048 --> 36:12.936
[SPEAKER_01]: But the building, the focuses on the windows and the building and the snowy day in the Boston Public Gardens.
36:13.557 --> 36:23.405
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've all been there towards the end of the winter when the lights are starting to get really pronounced and spring is on the way.
36:23.566 --> 36:26.808
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can tell when it was basically done by the light.
36:26.989 --> 36:28.570
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, exactly.
36:28.550 --> 36:30.527
[SPEAKER_00]: You know the clear day with that
36:30.980 --> 36:43.896
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, temperature is, you know, a little bit lower, the atmosphere gets a little cleaner, clearer, bluer, a long cash shadow, you know, which is characteristic of that part of the public garden.
36:44.116 --> 36:50.904
[SPEAKER_00]: But I will actually get back to, you know, you were asking, you know, what was the pivotal point?
36:51.865 --> 37:00.075
[SPEAKER_00]: What was the turning point, you know, in my career in terms of success and all
37:00.055 --> 37:02.940
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure if you are familiar with it.
37:03.281 --> 37:04.603
[SPEAKER_00]: It's called Winter Snowfall.
37:05.365 --> 37:07.088
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a picture.
37:07.108 --> 37:07.809
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not too big.
37:07.849 --> 37:11.175
[SPEAKER_00]: It's on the 18 by 26 or so in size.
37:12.297 --> 37:12.959
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's the end.
37:13.279 --> 37:20.933
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the looking at the bridge and the public garden, looking downtown.
37:21.520 --> 37:29.728
[SPEAKER_00]: And this picture was painted in 1981 and it was a time when the skyline was very, very much different.
37:29.808 --> 37:31.209
[SPEAKER_01]: You can actually see the question.
37:31.510 --> 37:35.073
[SPEAKER_01]: When you can enjoy Boston without the clutter.
37:35.794 --> 37:37.315
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's just terrible.
37:37.495 --> 37:38.636
[SPEAKER_01]: I miss Boston.
37:38.656 --> 37:39.377
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about you.
37:39.437 --> 37:44.842
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm an old school guy and I don't like the way Boston is growing.
37:45.703 --> 37:48.726
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's becoming much hot, yes, that's it.
37:48.706 --> 37:57.902
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I've seen that it's become a much harder to find those kinds of views, that's a wonderful, wonderful painting.
37:58.302 --> 38:06.296
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll tell you interesting story about that picture and it is what sort of sealed, you know, my success.
38:06.636 --> 38:09.381
[SPEAKER_00]: It was interesting, that picture.
38:09.361 --> 38:18.937
[SPEAKER_00]: I, that picture has been a business in itself my entire life, you know, through reproductions, greeting cards, limited.
38:19.338 --> 38:21.041
[SPEAKER_01]: So you still own the picture?
38:21.141 --> 38:32.280
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what was interesting was, I painted in 1981 and at that time I had my studio above the Gildaboss, and I noticed on Newbury Street,
38:32.260 --> 38:33.702
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's very convenient.
38:33.742 --> 38:37.909
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a member there and I worked at 165 new purchased.
38:37.929 --> 38:38.850
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh wow.
38:39.311 --> 38:39.872
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.
38:39.932 --> 38:42.776
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going right down the street for each other.
38:42.796 --> 38:43.036
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
38:43.177 --> 38:43.417
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
38:43.878 --> 38:51.810
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I finished the picture, I brought it down to the gallery manager and I asked her to put it in the window.
38:52.451 --> 38:58.740
[SPEAKER_00]: It's put it in the window and that's a crop version of it.
38:59.277 --> 39:05.146
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, she put it in the window and I just gone out to lunch with a friend who wanted to buy the picture.
39:06.087 --> 39:11.395
[SPEAKER_00]: And at that time in 1981, I had posted, you know, a fairly aggressive lead.
39:11.415 --> 39:12.937
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was $6,500.
39:13.478 --> 39:18.265
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is a lot of money, but yeah, yeah, that's probably equivalent to about a $30,000 painting.
39:18.285 --> 39:19.446
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, $40,000 dollar painting.
39:19.727 --> 39:19.987
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:20.007 --> 39:22.551
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
39:22.531 --> 39:26.702
[SPEAKER_00]: I go out to lunch with this, you know, friend who's a client, we come back.
39:26.762 --> 39:29.429
[SPEAKER_00]: He, he didn't pull the trigger, you know, during lunch.
39:29.690 --> 39:37.671
[SPEAKER_00]: So we come back and the gallery manager says, oh, you know, the follow-up stage just bought it.
39:38.562 --> 39:41.245
[SPEAKER_00]: So my friend, you know, missed out on the picture.
39:41.685 --> 39:50.754
[SPEAKER_00]: But what was interesting was we started a card company, a greeting card company, and that picture for 25 years.
39:51.074 --> 39:55.418
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so did you have to go back to the person you purchased it from and get the rights?
39:55.718 --> 39:56.039
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
39:56.059 --> 39:59.902
[SPEAKER_01]: Or do you lose your rights when you give a painting of yours way?
39:59.942 --> 40:01.604
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, when you...
40:01.724 --> 40:03.546
[SPEAKER_01]: This is common when you produce a commercial.
40:04.707 --> 40:06.088
[SPEAKER_01]: It's theirs, you have no rights.
40:06.068 --> 40:12.736
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what's interesting, if they buy a picture that you've already painted, you retain the rates automatically.
40:13.957 --> 40:17.562
[SPEAKER_00]: If you do a commission, they retain the rates.
40:17.582 --> 40:19.203
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the difference.
40:19.223 --> 40:20.044
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, interesting.
40:20.064 --> 40:24.109
[SPEAKER_00]: So I did on the rates on that.
40:24.289 --> 40:28.755
[SPEAKER_00]: And when the person bought it, you know, we did a verbal on that.
40:28.975 --> 40:31.158
[SPEAKER_00]: But here's where the story gets interesting.
40:32.739 --> 40:34.101
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you know David
40:34.300 --> 40:37.564
[SPEAKER_01]: I met David Moogor over the years.
40:37.744 --> 40:38.024
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:38.405 --> 40:43.710
[SPEAKER_00]: So a year after the pictures painted, I get a call from David Moogor.
40:44.531 --> 40:44.752
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:45.532 --> 40:46.373
[SPEAKER_00]: I want that picture.
40:46.674 --> 40:49.317
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the public garden picture.
40:49.717 --> 40:50.618
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, oh, I'm sorry.
40:50.658 --> 40:52.160
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not available.
40:52.500 --> 40:53.401
[SPEAKER_00]: It's on privately.
40:54.322 --> 40:55.403
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, all right.
40:55.744 --> 40:58.587
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the next year, I get a call.
40:58.567 --> 40:59.953
[SPEAKER_00]: then actually I get a call.
41:00.416 --> 41:06.062
[SPEAKER_00]: I get a call all the way up to 1988 and then I get a call from my owner.
41:06.346 --> 41:07.347
[SPEAKER_00]: of the picture.
41:07.608 --> 41:09.350
[SPEAKER_00]: And he says, Tom, I want to sell a picture.
41:10.071 --> 41:11.933
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's going to be expensive.
41:12.513 --> 41:14.075
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is 88.
41:15.237 --> 41:17.399
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, well, how much do you want for it?
41:18.521 --> 41:21.264
[SPEAKER_00]: These are the, I want to go 100 grams.
41:21.284 --> 41:25.669
[SPEAKER_00]: So I said, well, David Miragar has been chasing it for six or seven years.
41:26.250 --> 41:27.872
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm happy to present it to him.
41:28.092 --> 41:30.996
[SPEAKER_00]: So I pick up the picture and bring it home and put it over.
41:31.336 --> 41:32.758
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully you get a commission out of this.
41:32.738 --> 41:33.840
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I did.
41:33.860 --> 41:35.863
[SPEAKER_00]: He was very generous on that.
41:36.444 --> 41:48.082
[SPEAKER_00]: I put it on, you know, but my mantle and David pulls out his, his checkbook and, you know, there's no cover on it, just a check and you write up the hiring.
41:48.142 --> 41:48.422
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice.
41:49.544 --> 41:51.206
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's a beautiful, it's amazing picture.
41:51.266 --> 42:00.180
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so what, the interesting thing is what happened right after that, I actually had a dip in sales that was getting tough to sell pictures.
42:00.160 --> 42:02.603
[SPEAKER_00]: because everybody thought everything was going to be a hundred grand.
42:03.264 --> 42:04.386
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's it.
42:04.506 --> 42:09.954
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I did was, you know, that was a one-off at that time.
42:10.935 --> 42:17.684
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way I handled it was, you know, I kept with my regular processing, you know, which was, sure, going up and everything.
42:18.345 --> 42:22.371
[SPEAKER_00]: So once people realized that not everything was a hundred grand,
42:22.351 --> 42:31.020
[SPEAKER_00]: All of a sudden, everything looked like a value because I wasn't pricing it based on that picture and that worked to my advantage tremendously.
42:32.081 --> 42:34.684
[SPEAKER_01]: So what made you start your school?
42:34.924 --> 42:42.612
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I know that's a big passion of yours and where you spend a lot of time down.
42:42.633 --> 42:47.818
[SPEAKER_00]: A sense of gratitude and obligation to my teacher.
42:47.798 --> 42:53.726
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the other things I didn't tell you about him was he was extremely wealthy himself.
42:54.166 --> 42:56.669
[SPEAKER_00]: He was from an old Providence and Newport family.
42:57.330 --> 43:00.694
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we studied with him, we were supported.
43:00.975 --> 43:02.477
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we were given a stipend.
43:04.079 --> 43:05.340
[SPEAKER_00]: We actually given a car.
43:06.181 --> 43:09.105
[SPEAKER_00]: All our supplies were paid for a studio.
43:09.486 --> 43:10.387
[SPEAKER_01]: Different time.
43:10.487 --> 43:12.169
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it really was.
43:12.149 --> 43:21.157
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, studying with him, I mean, it was basically six and a half years of not having a care in the world.
43:23.199 --> 43:27.322
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but what I learned from him gave me my life.
43:27.923 --> 43:41.835
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, gave me the opportunity to, you know, have my own family, you know, raise kids, you know, do what I wanted, you know, have a great life.
43:41.815 --> 43:56.532
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a tremendous revival of this type of painting going on, but a lot of it is, it's not quite, you know, on the, on the standard, you know, that he had set.
43:57.133 --> 44:05.342
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to make sure that his teaching, you know, is presented properly or you the last link to Sergeant.
44:05.373 --> 44:23.196
[SPEAKER_00]: No, there's actually there's of his students, his three of us who there's only a 10 of us left 18 year 18 students during his lifetime, I mean serious full-time students, many, many people past that was doing, I mean hundreds and hundreds.
44:23.176 --> 44:24.859
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people lasted a day.
44:24.940 --> 44:29.569
[SPEAKER_00]: He was incredibly high person to work with, you know, for a lot of people.
44:29.589 --> 44:31.172
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he was a real task master.
44:32.054 --> 44:41.353
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people lasted a week, a month, you know, but they were only 18 of us that studied with them, you know, more than four or five years.
44:41.333 --> 44:49.451
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, my goal is to, you know, have this really pure form of, you know, his teaching and the Boston School.
44:49.491 --> 44:54.181
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's, there's, um, two other, uh, schools.
44:54.742 --> 44:58.009
[SPEAKER_00]: What, what is in northern New Hampshire right now, falling birds and,
44:57.989 --> 45:00.793
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were students together under Mr. Gamble.
45:01.214 --> 45:06.441
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's a school in Florence, Charles Cecil, who was a Florence Hiddly.
45:06.641 --> 45:07.543
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Florence Hiddly.
45:08.144 --> 45:10.106
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's interesting because it's Florence.
45:10.787 --> 45:11.028
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
45:11.048 --> 45:11.288
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
45:11.308 --> 45:14.032
[SPEAKER_00]: So it attracts, because the environment there.
45:14.493 --> 45:14.633
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
45:14.653 --> 45:19.540
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been many times, so it is a incredibly creative environment.
45:19.700 --> 45:20.301
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
45:20.281 --> 45:23.850
[SPEAKER_00]: And he has many, many students from England and whatnot.
45:24.190 --> 45:29.042
[SPEAKER_00]: He's also been doing it longer, both of them have had their schools to 30 years.
45:29.443 --> 45:37.783
[SPEAKER_00]: I've always taught, but it was on an individual mentoring basis, and I've only had the more formal school for about eight years.
45:38.118 --> 45:42.703
[SPEAKER_01]: And what about the net tuck it and main experiences that you create?
45:42.723 --> 45:56.319
[SPEAKER_00]: Those workshops are, you know, there's a workshop, you know, there for serious landscape students, you know, people who, you know, want to understand what, you know, how painting was taught at the turn of the previous century.
45:58.121 --> 46:03.467
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a, it's funny, this thing about the museum that
46:03.447 --> 46:10.094
[SPEAKER_00]: caring about their own heritage, but there's a tremendous link with Boston and Monet.
46:11.235 --> 46:16.341
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a woman pain above her, named Lilacavit Perry.
46:16.922 --> 46:21.567
[SPEAKER_00]: She was Monet's neighbor and it helped him design and build his gardens.
46:22.628 --> 46:23.769
[SPEAKER_00]: She was a Boston painter.
46:23.789 --> 46:32.138
[SPEAKER_00]: She was a contemporary of my teacher.
46:32.118 --> 46:36.384
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were a number of way in Paxton who was my teacher.
46:36.684 --> 46:39.749
[SPEAKER_00]: He studied briefly with Monae.
46:39.789 --> 46:43.814
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is tremendous connection with Boston and Monae.
46:44.315 --> 46:45.476
[SPEAKER_01]: You've worn many awards.
46:46.278 --> 46:48.160
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me what's your most proud of.
46:49.021 --> 46:52.486
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny.
46:52.506 --> 46:53.147
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't...
46:54.342 --> 47:02.958
[SPEAKER_00]: exhibit in competitive exhibitions much anymore because I mean it's ridiculous, you know, there's no criteria.
47:03.298 --> 47:08.007
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, most of these major shows, you know, there's no serious criteria.
47:08.368 --> 47:11.794
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was actually one of my earliest awards.
47:11.774 --> 47:19.891
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it was, it's one of the only ones I mentioned was 1975 that you had martial exhibition out of your, remember?
47:20.011 --> 47:21.694
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you were in March downtown.
47:22.196 --> 47:22.456
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:22.737 --> 47:25.362
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they, they had an annual exhibition.
47:26.590 --> 47:33.918
[SPEAKER_00]: was started in the teens or 20s, you know, I mean probably about 1910 that continued in 1975.
47:34.859 --> 47:42.608
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and the last exhibition held in 1975, that was, I entered that one.
47:43.549 --> 47:52.699
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was midway through my studies and I won the most gold medal for the most popular picture, you know, it was a Boston picture.
47:52.679 --> 48:01.369
[SPEAKER_00]: So there were, there were still some painters from my teachers generation who were exhibiting back then.
48:01.971 --> 48:04.680
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a very much different world.
48:04.897 --> 48:20.298
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you want Tom Dunley to be remembered as an artist, you know, when it's time to hang the brush out, the great part about artists that your work is still going to live longer than you and me?
48:20.639 --> 48:34.077
[SPEAKER_00]: That is the interesting part about it, you know, I mean, hopefully the work stands for itself and what it is and it is recognized, you know, with good pictures, with good paintings,
48:34.057 --> 48:47.933
[SPEAKER_00]: There's always an inexplicable element to them that you can recognize quality and I hope that's something that people recognize in my work.
48:49.114 --> 48:49.955
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.
48:49.995 --> 48:53.919
[SPEAKER_00]: One never knows once you go, what's going to happen.
48:54.460 --> 49:00.807
[SPEAKER_00]: I would like to be thought of as
49:00.787 --> 49:11.097
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, as a serious honest painter, you know, whose goal was to, you know, paint the beauty of nature and the world around us, you know, the way it appears.
49:11.538 --> 49:19.746
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I, I, I did my part and trying to continue this great tradition that I've been so blessed to be part of.
49:20.507 --> 49:24.331
[SPEAKER_01]: Tom Dunley, thank you so much for coming today and telling your story.
49:24.571 --> 49:25.772
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was a great pleasure Bruce.
49:25.792 --> 49:26.693
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me.
49:32.680 --> 49:33.461
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for joining.
49:33.981 --> 49:39.908
[SPEAKER_01]: We hope you listen to our next episode as we continue to bring an extraordinary people willing to tell their stories.
49:40.569 --> 49:46.015
[SPEAKER_01]: And remember, no matter the odds, no matter the circumstances, no matter what life may bring.
49:46.615 --> 49:56.106
[SPEAKER_01]: There's an opportunity for greatness within each of us when we learn to fly.
00:08.283 --> 00:13.713
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, and welcome to Learning Defline, a podcast about what it takes to win.
00:14.374 --> 00:19.763
[SPEAKER_01]: The path to success is never straight line, and there's always a story behind it.
00:20.565 --> 00:30.983
[SPEAKER_01]: Each episode will host leaders in business, music, sports and entertainment, and will discuss the obstacles they overcame to compete, triumph, and eventually dominate.
00:30.963 --> 00:42.374
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Bruce Midman, CEO of Midcom, a full-service ad agency in Boston, and also co-founder of Community Broadcasters, a network of 36 radio stations along these coasts.
00:42.815 --> 00:51.003
[SPEAKER_01]: Over the last 40-plus years, I've traveled to more than 40 countries, and I've seen firsthand what drives the best of the best.
00:51.724 --> 00:56.228
[SPEAKER_01]: So join me on a journey as we learn together what it takes to fly.
00:57.541 --> 01:09.845
[SPEAKER_01]: Today, we joined by a claimed painter Thomas Dunlay, a mass-choose its native whose dedication to traditional craftsmanship has made him an admired artist in the New England, art world and far beyond.
01:10.326 --> 01:17.220
[SPEAKER_01]: Tom's journey into art began early when as a child he is introduced to painting by his father, an amateur painter.
01:17.200 --> 01:25.772
[SPEAKER_01]: After studying for a time at the Massachusetts College of Art, he left to pursue the more traditional discipline he was seeking, as it was no longer a part of the curriculum.
01:26.172 --> 01:37.167
[SPEAKER_01]: He found sound training studying under renowned artist Roger Douglas Hunter, done by himself later became a teacher, founding that Thomas R. Dunlake teaching studios in Norwood.
01:37.147 --> 01:47.007
[SPEAKER_01]: He offers instruction in drawing and painting based on the Boston tradition, and also continues to lead workshops, such as summer sessions around New England, and locations like Nantucket.
01:47.308 --> 01:57.889
[SPEAKER_01]: Over the decades, Tom's commitment to technique and tradition has earned him numerous honors, including multiple grants from the ET Green Shields Moral Foundation.
01:57.869 --> 02:04.917
[SPEAKER_01]: to John Singleton, Company Awards, and recognition from Miyagi magazine and the Jordan Marsh doing that arts exhibition.
02:05.438 --> 02:09.763
[SPEAKER_01]: His paintings are included in numerous public corporate and private collections worldwide.
02:10.164 --> 02:15.290
[SPEAKER_01]: His work continues to balance portrait, local landscape, and figure painting.
02:15.590 --> 02:20.015
[SPEAKER_01]: And he can often be found painting outdoors in the beach or in the villages of Nantucket.
02:20.796 --> 02:22.999
[SPEAKER_01]: Tom, welcome!
02:22.979 --> 02:39.030
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me, Bruce, it's a great pleasure to be here, and you're not 100% right on that, you know, the graphic arts and commercial arts are, you know, they're pretty closely related, you know, when one came out of the other.
02:39.010 --> 02:47.623
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, the art was the original former communication, you know, before we have video and digital and all sorts of other mediums.
02:47.843 --> 03:01.103
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's focus on Tom Dunlick, you know, very few people become artists and are successful at it, especially in the fine arts, which is a much more difficult path.
03:01.083 --> 03:02.610
[SPEAKER_01]: to have some success in.
03:02.650 --> 03:10.165
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's let's talk about the beginnings of this passion and focus and tell us how you got started.
03:10.685 --> 03:13.269
[SPEAKER_00]: my story is kind of interesting.
03:13.830 --> 03:18.397
[SPEAKER_00]: I grew up in Wayne with Massachusetts, middle class family.
03:18.918 --> 03:21.221
[SPEAKER_00]: My father was a woman in the factory.
03:21.582 --> 03:25.648
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe maybe one of the two or three most talented people I've ever seen.
03:25.748 --> 03:26.950
[SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting.
03:26.970 --> 03:28.493
[SPEAKER_00]: He drew incredibly well.
03:28.693 --> 03:33.080
[SPEAKER_01]: When did he start to get you excited about painting?
03:33.640 --> 03:35.163
[SPEAKER_01]: How old were you when you first started?
03:35.183 --> 03:36.425
[SPEAKER_00]: It's my earliest memory.
03:37.006 --> 03:38.548
[SPEAKER_00]: You know,
03:38.866 --> 03:43.211
[SPEAKER_01]: growing up and you're starting to recognize and everybody else starting to recognize a little bit.
03:43.532 --> 03:50.140
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you do to get yourself a little more ingrained in that as a direction or was it a direction in your mind?
03:50.721 --> 03:52.583
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you feel like I want to be an artist?
03:53.104 --> 04:00.773
[SPEAKER_00]: No, actually, you know, starting in the sixth grade, I became more interested in basketball.
04:00.753 --> 04:02.816
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I thought of pursuing that.
04:03.617 --> 04:08.743
[SPEAKER_00]: Once it came time to graduate from my school, I had to make a decision.
04:08.803 --> 04:13.989
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, actually, at the last minute, I decided to apply to Mass College of Art.
04:14.550 --> 04:16.753
[SPEAKER_00]: But actually, I was too late.
04:18.054 --> 04:25.123
[SPEAKER_00]: There already closed the admissions, but fortunately, I had a friend who had recently graduated.
04:25.103 --> 04:34.566
[SPEAKER_00]: and was a extremely well-thought of graduate in the industrial design field.
04:35.107 --> 04:39.658
[SPEAKER_00]: So he talked to a few people and got you in minutes and get me in.
04:40.059 --> 04:41.783
[SPEAKER_00]: What year was this?
04:41.803 --> 04:42.505
[SPEAKER_00]: 1969.
04:42.485 --> 04:56.750
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so that's a height of Vietnam, it's a very growing up at the same Paris at Northeastern down the street, by the way, and it was a very cool period, a lot of new music being introduced.
04:56.970 --> 04:59.535
[SPEAKER_01]: We all thought we were hot tickets, right?
04:59.595 --> 05:05.826
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and so being in art school was kind of a, you will wear most of the people wanted to be.
05:05.992 --> 05:10.925
[SPEAKER_00]: I was, except I wasn't interested in doing what they wanted to do.
05:11.305 --> 05:13.050
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to learn how to paint portraits.
05:13.150 --> 05:19.005
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to learn how to paint still lives, figures, landscapes, you know, things of that sort.
05:19.154 --> 05:32.058
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw on your resume, you left there because you weren't able to accomplish what you were hoping to in terms of building a, I did stay, you know, I knew immediately, this was not the place for me.
05:32.179 --> 05:39.272
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I stayed for 18 months for lack of any other, anything you came away with from that 18 months.
05:39.505 --> 05:43.553
[SPEAKER_00]: I probably stretch Candace better than anybody on the planet.
05:43.933 --> 05:44.294
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
05:44.394 --> 05:45.136
[SPEAKER_00]: I did learn that.
05:45.296 --> 05:46.117
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
05:46.338 --> 05:48.642
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there is a skill on some level.
05:50.105 --> 05:50.205
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
05:50.225 --> 05:56.637
[SPEAKER_00]: 50 years prior to that, it was one of the two or three leading schools in the country.
05:56.617 --> 06:00.404
[SPEAKER_00]: for, you know, becoming a portrait painter, figure painter.
06:00.764 --> 06:05.172
[SPEAKER_01]: For those of you just, we were having conversation before Tom came aboard.
06:05.252 --> 06:08.078
[SPEAKER_01]: I told him how much I enjoyed the book, a journey.
06:08.378 --> 06:08.899
[SPEAKER_00]: Great, a journey.
06:08.919 --> 06:20.059
[SPEAKER_01]: The Great of Journey, Americans in Paris, which was an amazing book by David McCuller, about which I never knew about the fact that Americans learned art,
06:20.039 --> 06:35.294
[SPEAKER_01]: by going to basically going and writing literature, going to France, and frankly, sitting in a class is not even being accepted to schools, and that's how American art was born.
06:35.414 --> 06:47.987
[SPEAKER_00]: In a pair of Paris, from the 18th of, was it 1820s to 1880s to 1820s to 1890s to 1890s to 1890s to the Paris,
06:47.967 --> 07:08.334
[SPEAKER_00]: What's interesting, you were talking about the Americans going to Paris to study, it wasn't just the Americans, they were colonies, it was the American colony, there was the Argentina colony, there were the Australians, all the schools of art thought were created from this one on cliff.
07:08.754 --> 07:13.941
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, interesting.
07:13.921 --> 07:17.969
[SPEAKER_00]: by walking down the street and just listening to what was going on.
07:18.370 --> 07:19.873
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought through those muscles.
07:19.893 --> 07:22.538
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was such an extraordinary place.
07:23.480 --> 07:27.227
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, drawing was tired of the tire's level pain.
07:27.247 --> 07:32.537
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, some of the greatest painters who have ever lived, you know, John Sagen.
07:32.517 --> 07:54.002
[SPEAKER_01]: well you see sergeant stuff you know in his book he talks about sergeant a lot right and then you go to the museum of foreign arts and they're sergeant everywhere right exactly and sergeant considered one of the best American painters yes even though he it was an expatriate uh yeah he's one of the the top two or three you know American painters he wins a little homework
07:53.982 --> 08:06.136
[SPEAKER_00]: Frank Pence in the Edmund Tawbell, but Sergeant went to Paris to study with the great French painter, Carol, as Durran, and Carol as Durran taught quite a number of American painters.
08:06.597 --> 08:18.150
[SPEAKER_00]: But the interesting thing, I'm not sure that McCollum makes this point, is that many of those painters that went to Paris to study were all from Boston.
08:18.400 --> 08:22.845
[SPEAKER_01]: He talked a lot about New Englanders there, Bostonians, Rhode Islanders.
08:23.846 --> 08:25.108
[SPEAKER_00]: People at Child Hassan?
08:25.128 --> 08:25.368
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
08:26.649 --> 08:30.153
[SPEAKER_00]: Frank Benson, the Edmontobel Joseph de Cane, Frank Duvenak.
08:30.213 --> 08:33.457
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Boston had was just loaded with skills.
08:33.477 --> 08:37.301
[SPEAKER_01]: You left college because he did not for what you were hoping.
08:37.382 --> 08:39.944
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, while I was there, I started the search.
08:40.205 --> 08:43.969
[SPEAKER_00]: OK. And as we all know, there was no winner net then.
08:43.949 --> 08:51.284
[SPEAKER_00]: All I really, what I was, I knew my history extremely well, I'd always been interested in that history.
08:52.106 --> 09:04.371
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you do the math, you know, Monet died in 1924, Sergeant died in 1925, here we are 1969, 1970, only 45 years.
09:04.351 --> 09:13.445
[SPEAKER_00]: So, if you do the math, someone had to be around who was a young man who would study with them with them a great point.
09:14.647 --> 09:31.472
[SPEAKER_00]: So I searched and the only real research I had was the little tiny black and white ads in the back of American artists magazine, you know, so and so, you know, painters
09:31.452 --> 09:37.740
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really searched in the country, I went over the place, you know, New York and whatnot.
09:39.322 --> 09:43.488
[SPEAKER_00]: And I couldn't find anybody that really resonated with what I wanted.
09:43.508 --> 09:48.695
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was very familiar with Sergeant, just getting back to my father.
09:48.715 --> 09:56.565
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember it's probably six years old he introduced me to Sergeant's work for us through the
09:56.545 --> 10:03.737
[SPEAKER_00]: encyclopedia of botanica and then we went to the NFA and saw his work and it just resonated with me.
10:03.777 --> 10:11.069
[SPEAKER_00]: It meant an impression on my brain, you know, that, you know, it's yeah, the light in those paintings are amazing.
10:12.171 --> 10:14.014
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, it really, really was.
10:13.994 --> 10:25.674
[SPEAKER_00]: So I searched everywhere, I met with several very well-known contemporary painters at that time, but nothing quite resonated.
10:26.175 --> 10:35.631
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've always been interested in paintings, all the paintings, by that time I had actually come to the decision to be an ideal.
10:35.611 --> 10:38.756
[SPEAKER_00]: dealing in older pictures, you know, and what year was this?
10:39.277 --> 10:41.039
[SPEAKER_00]: This was probably 71, okay.
10:41.320 --> 10:54.800
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, going on for that time frame and that was the time when, you know, things were starting to come out of addicts from the previous, you know, two previous generations.
10:55.301 --> 10:59.087
[SPEAKER_00]: So good good pictures were beginning to, you know, surface, things that, you know,
10:59.067 --> 11:03.635
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, families might have bought in the teens or 20s or early.
11:03.655 --> 11:12.952
[SPEAKER_01]: Was the 60s were experimental, the 70s were a little more back to a little more depth, the tradition, it was a big shift in America.
11:12.972 --> 11:14.374
[SPEAKER_00]: In the by-centennial.
11:14.394 --> 11:20.485
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, I had made this decision, but one day I was walking up Newbury Street.
11:21.494 --> 11:23.998
[SPEAKER_00]: And I stopped into the Company Society.
11:24.538 --> 11:25.760
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was a gentleman in there.
11:25.980 --> 11:27.102
[SPEAKER_00]: His name was Bill Pitt.
11:28.043 --> 11:30.747
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, University, to straight up all the way up.
11:31.288 --> 11:37.717
[SPEAKER_00]: Any, any, you know, right out in the middle of the street, and he said, look to the very end of the street.
11:38.338 --> 11:41.983
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a red brick building with all windows there.
11:41.963 --> 11:48.110
[SPEAKER_00]: He says, there's a man there that you need to go meet his name as IRA chives, camel.
11:48.850 --> 12:03.426
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, I, you know, got his phone number, I called Mr. Gamble, made an appointment to come see him and when you came to these studios, they were two-level studios.
12:03.486 --> 12:05.288
[SPEAKER_00]: You entered on a balcony.
12:05.268 --> 12:08.512
[SPEAKER_00]: and you overlook this gigantic studio.
12:08.692 --> 12:17.544
[SPEAKER_00]: It was probably 25 feet deep and with 36 feet long with 18 foot ceilings and just complete wall glass.
12:18.365 --> 12:29.299
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you, well, what you have to understand and that in Boston at the turn of the century, there was a properly in 1907.
12:29.719 --> 12:31.782
[SPEAKER_00]: There were probably over 300
12:32.605 --> 12:37.432
[SPEAKER_00]: serious professional like worldwide recognized artists.
12:37.452 --> 12:41.097
[SPEAKER_00]: So there was a tremendous demand for this kind of building.
12:41.778 --> 12:49.169
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't like today where people looked for an old factory and you know end up trying to use it, but there were very specific standards.
12:51.912 --> 12:57.280
[SPEAKER_00]: The Leo, you know the way it set north of east west.
12:57.260 --> 13:13.868
[SPEAKER_00]: you know the size it's an individual built us or uh well um was there a page of the arts at that time was there it was Boston I mean I think it was Cabot Cabot and Forbes silt it but it was built by the famous architect J. Holston Parker
13:13.848 --> 13:14.970
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
13:14.990 --> 13:20.759
[SPEAKER_00]: And every year of the Boston Architectural Center, they give an award.
13:20.939 --> 13:21.580
[SPEAKER_00]: It's called the J.
13:21.600 --> 13:28.512
[SPEAKER_00]: House and Parker award, you know, for the newest, most interesting, you know, building in the city of Boston, interesting.
13:28.772 --> 13:36.885
[SPEAKER_00]: But actually, at that time, 1907, there were minimum of seven studio buildings.
13:36.865 --> 13:39.149
[SPEAKER_00]: just like this in Boston.
13:39.169 --> 13:46.141
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the grownman studios in coply square of the High Court street studios on St. Petal Street.
13:47.023 --> 13:53.254
[SPEAKER_00]: The Riverway Studios on the Riverway, which is now Wheelock College.
13:53.234 --> 13:56.318
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, Boston really was a senator, right?
13:56.338 --> 13:59.943
[SPEAKER_01]: I never recognized Boston as a senator of art in the turn of the century.
14:00.064 --> 14:02.867
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I just didn't perceive it that, Dad.
14:03.508 --> 14:11.379
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a lot of people will like my saying this, but it's the MFA is to blame, Museum of Fine Arts.
14:11.399 --> 14:13.302
[SPEAKER_00]: But Boston has a...
14:13.282 --> 14:21.736
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you could say that here, you know, I'm sure at the MFA is not a perfect institution by any means.
14:22.477 --> 14:26.884
[SPEAKER_00]: It certainly isn't, especially if you regard it to a territory.
14:28.146 --> 14:35.037
[SPEAKER_00]: It treats that period of art history, that period of painting and Boston.
14:35.776 --> 14:47.560
[SPEAKER_00]: They actually describe it as a regional curiosity, where a traditional standards lasted a little bit longer than the rest of society.
14:49.504 --> 14:56.198
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically saying that Boston didn't embrace modern, but not, and it really didn't until after the,
14:56.178 --> 14:58.241
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, except a mass college of art.
14:59.542 --> 14:59.883
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:00.043 --> 15:02.486
[SPEAKER_00]: I have this meeting with Mr. Gamble.
15:02.626 --> 15:04.769
[SPEAKER_00]: And I enter on the balcony.
15:05.210 --> 15:06.752
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm overlooking the studio.
15:06.772 --> 15:09.355
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see it in my mind's eye right now.
15:10.457 --> 15:11.758
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a day's job a moment.
15:12.339 --> 15:16.705
[SPEAKER_00]: I had that strange odd feeling.
15:16.745 --> 15:17.346
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been here.
15:17.466 --> 15:20.790
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen this in a dream.
15:21.231 --> 15:24.615
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew this was.
15:24.595 --> 15:25.978
[SPEAKER_00]: We've been for me to be here.
15:26.860 --> 15:28.663
[SPEAKER_00]: I came down into a studio.
15:28.703 --> 15:31.008
[SPEAKER_00]: I was stunned, you know, by the work.
15:32.170 --> 15:33.654
[SPEAKER_00]: I sent you that essay here.
15:33.674 --> 15:34.856
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm American old master.
15:36.119 --> 15:39.786
[SPEAKER_00]: And he really wants, I mean, he's extraordinary.
15:39.766 --> 15:50.600
[SPEAKER_00]: good, he was extraordinarily well trained and he was the last link in this country with that period of 19th century painting in Paris.
15:51.722 --> 16:06.702
[SPEAKER_00]: What's interesting is he had his training before World War 1 in this country at the museum school and he had also studied in Paris, but he was the only
16:06.833 --> 16:15.109
[SPEAKER_00]: that recognized what was happening in the 20s and early 30s that the traditional standards were going by.
16:15.169 --> 16:22.564
[SPEAKER_00]: So he continued that yeah, that tradition he made a commitment right that he was the knowledge that he had he was going to keep it alive.
16:22.932 --> 16:24.916
[SPEAKER_01]: You were there, got that experience.
16:25.256 --> 16:27.100
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in number of years there, yes.
16:27.120 --> 16:33.551
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I did work with Bob Hunter, Mr. Campbell's student for a year.
16:34.072 --> 16:37.338
[SPEAKER_00]: And then an opening came of the old Mr. Campbell.
16:37.499 --> 16:42.628
[SPEAKER_00]: With Mr. Gamel, and Bob Hunter, you recommended that I was ready.
16:42.811 --> 16:53.364
[SPEAKER_01]: What were you learning back then, certainly, was it specific mediums you were working in or did it direct you towards where you eventually ended up in terms of your art?
16:53.544 --> 16:56.955
[SPEAKER_00]: It did very much so, but what's interesting is.
16:57.205 --> 17:03.034
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, learning to become a good painter, it's, it's really only a whole one thing.
17:03.395 --> 17:12.610
[SPEAKER_00]: It's learning to see meaning learning to recognize shapes and then be able to put them down the way they actually are in nature.
17:13.311 --> 17:18.980
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, mediums, techniques, you know, all of that, that's all stuff that can be learned.
17:19.581 --> 17:22.106
[SPEAKER_01]: And which is your favorite, the obviously pain.
17:22.186 --> 17:23.708
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a, I'm a straight oil painter.
17:24.309 --> 17:24.850
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
17:24.830 --> 17:32.427
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, I do draw and in my teeth my own teaching now, the drawing is the main thing.
17:32.447 --> 17:33.208
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's the base.
17:33.509 --> 17:34.391
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the base.
17:34.411 --> 17:37.879
[SPEAKER_01]: If you do draw first obviously, and then, right.
17:37.899 --> 17:40.324
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm always been of, um,
17:40.304 --> 18:05.029
[SPEAKER_01]: and saturated by color, how you derive the, you know, I was looking at artists and watching them work and I see paint and colors and I don't see anything and then about 20 minutes later I come back and there's an image from all of these colors that I had, I didn't see so what, what is it in the,
18:05.009 --> 18:24.908
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very interesting, you know, I put a lot of emphasis, once my students get painting and actually working with the pigment on the canvas of painting a landscape or whatever a portrait or a still life color is it's actually very, very simple.
18:24.888 --> 18:39.889
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a quote from a very famous Russian painter who came to America, those that know a lot of that period at the turn of the century who recognizes name Nikolai Fetchin.
18:40.409 --> 18:51.705
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, there were three colors, red, yellow, and blue, every color that you see in nature is some combination of those three colors.
18:51.685 --> 18:54.589
[SPEAKER_00]: everybody knows it, but few understand it.
18:56.030 --> 19:12.951
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I'm teaching, you know, my students to actually paint and work with the pigment, you know, what we do is we identify what's what's the base color, you know, like in the case of a portrait, you know, if you have to identify a color,
19:12.931 --> 19:20.060
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, red is going to be the most dominant thing, but when you put straight red down, you know, it's going to be obviously too red.
19:20.641 --> 19:27.510
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to figure out what you have to add to that red, you know, to make it the color that is in front of you.
19:27.971 --> 19:33.218
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll love there what was the next decision that you made towards a career.
19:33.704 --> 19:39.139
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, the period of study was really fascinating.
19:39.360 --> 19:40.062
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
19:40.924 --> 19:45.537
[SPEAKER_00]: My, Mr. Gamel, my, my teacher.
19:46.495 --> 19:48.278
[SPEAKER_00]: was highly criticized.
19:49.660 --> 19:53.685
[SPEAKER_00]: He was an incredible task master, you know, he didn't suffer fools.
19:54.667 --> 19:58.112
[SPEAKER_00]: He spoke six languages, he kept his, he liked to work.
19:58.332 --> 20:01.336
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he kept his diary in Italian.
20:02.158 --> 20:07.265
[SPEAKER_00]: And when we studied with him, I mean, it was, it was, it was boot camp.
20:07.285 --> 20:12.773
[SPEAKER_00]: It really, you know, it was, it was not, well, this is main focusing.
20:12.972 --> 20:15.736
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, the labor of it.
20:17.178 --> 20:21.224
[SPEAKER_00]: He had no, but was there no emphasis on it?
20:21.344 --> 20:22.126
[SPEAKER_00]: What's there?
20:22.146 --> 20:24.249
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to draw for five days.
20:24.749 --> 20:26.772
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to do pains for six days.
20:26.873 --> 20:30.278
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, was there we had a six day week schedule.
20:30.478 --> 20:31.199
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
20:31.860 --> 20:35.826
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to report to him just before eight o'clock every morning.
20:36.507 --> 20:37.027
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
20:37.048 --> 20:42.135
[SPEAKER_00]: To align what we were going to be doing that morning.
20:42.115 --> 20:46.282
[SPEAKER_00]: from white plaster cast, reproductions of classical sculpture.
20:46.903 --> 20:59.263
[SPEAKER_00]: We do on charcoal paper, we learn how to handle the charcoal, we learn how to make really accurate drawings, you know, very highly sophisticated, beautifully, you know, rented drawings.
20:59.243 --> 21:09.445
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you're doing highly accurate sophisticated drawings, what's the key component to make sure that they are highly accurate drawings?
21:10.307 --> 21:14.316
[SPEAKER_00]: When you scan it, we weren't in a manner called site size.
21:14.296 --> 21:36.861
[SPEAKER_00]: where we would have the the object we would draw maybe six or seven feet in front of us and then our canvas or paper would be on a plane right beside the statue and then we would have a piece of tape on the floor seven or six or seven feet back and we would make all our observations from that point.
21:36.841 --> 21:40.124
[SPEAKER_00]: and we would walk up to the easel and we'd put a mark down.
21:40.705 --> 21:46.370
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we'd come back to that mark on the floor and look to see if that mark was right.
21:46.670 --> 21:48.172
[SPEAKER_00]: If it wasn't right, we would move it.
21:48.792 --> 21:54.438
[SPEAKER_00]: And we would repeat that process for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours.
21:54.818 --> 22:01.284
[SPEAKER_01]: One needs to like the solitude and relationship between you and a canvas.
22:01.464 --> 22:06.409
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you do, I think that's an important part of it.
22:06.608 --> 22:14.659
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I love working in my studio alone, you know, I don't, you know, feel the need to be chatting with someone, you know, all the time.
22:15.180 --> 22:23.912
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, in this, it really takes about four, about three to four years to master that.
22:24.734 --> 22:25.054
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
22:25.274 --> 22:34.928
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you can see shapes, once you understand values and meaning the degree of light and dark, that something is, you know, most people would call it the shading.
22:35.380 --> 22:44.659
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you can recognize how dark something is in relation to how light something is and get the scale of those things and the depth in the depth.
22:45.721 --> 22:51.313
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you can, you know, you have complete command over that skill, then you're ready for painting.
22:51.293 --> 22:53.515
[SPEAKER_00]: and paintings are a whole different matter.
22:54.376 --> 22:58.940
[SPEAKER_01]: You build this base of knowledge, obviously, it's the foundation for anything.
23:00.082 --> 23:02.504
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you learn when you start painting?
23:04.045 --> 23:09.671
[SPEAKER_01]: Painting is not a meticulous, usually, as meticulous as drawing.
23:10.392 --> 23:12.934
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the difference in terms of knowledge?
23:14.335 --> 23:17.098
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it needed to be successful.
23:17.129 --> 23:29.316
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I say this, I'm talking about this specific tradition that we're working and this way that, you know, and painting was taught at the turn of the century.
23:29.380 --> 23:43.902
[SPEAKER_01]: And as Boston method well known throughout the world, I mean, do people go, hey, that's the Boston method or is that something really regionally sort of There is a really there's a worldwide movement.
23:44.163 --> 23:45.906
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is a school of Boston.
23:46.186 --> 23:46.466
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:46.486 --> 23:46.587
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
23:46.607 --> 23:47.127
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:47.147 --> 23:55.320
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the influence my teacher had On the actually the current generation now
23:55.300 --> 24:11.513
[SPEAKER_00]: It's being felt by people who don't even fully understand, you know, and so the Boston method is landscapes, portraits, portrait, portrait figure, landscape, still life, still life, it's all fine art, all fine art.
24:11.814 --> 24:15.722
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll paint or, you know, illustrations.
24:15.702 --> 24:31.686
[SPEAKER_00]: oil painting, you know, oil paint, primary, primarily, although, you know, I have a number of friends who were trained by other students of students of Mr. Gamble who also do illustration who are very, very good at it.
24:31.666 --> 24:40.464
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the, I mean, a good painter should be able to, you know, and the style is real life in essence, right?
24:40.484 --> 24:40.945
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
24:41.065 --> 24:41.947
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
24:41.967 --> 24:42.889
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always real life.
24:42.969 --> 24:44.152
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always nature.
24:44.853 --> 24:45.434
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
24:45.454 --> 24:47.318
[SPEAKER_00]: But, Jancy, you're really a question.
24:47.358 --> 24:49.623
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what's the main focus of the painting?
24:49.903 --> 24:50.124
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
24:50.244 --> 24:52.729
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's to render.
24:52.709 --> 24:55.078
[SPEAKER_00]: to render nature of the way it appears.
24:55.760 --> 25:00.177
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll actually give you mode A's definition of impressionism.
25:01.161 --> 25:03.630
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the rendering of the object.
25:03.796 --> 25:07.323
[SPEAKER_00]: as it appears to the eye upon first glance.
25:08.585 --> 25:10.228
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what impressionism is.
25:10.248 --> 25:14.055
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do you capture first glance when you keep looking at something for hours?
25:14.516 --> 25:18.984
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was, and I know that feeling that you saw at the first glance.
25:19.105 --> 25:23.032
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, in Monet would work, you know, a very short amount of time on a picture.
25:23.593 --> 25:25.737
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's going back each day.
25:26.746 --> 25:34.237
[SPEAKER_00]: with a fresh eye working for a short period of time so that you keep that freshness of the original impression.
25:35.219 --> 25:35.459
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
25:35.479 --> 25:43.331
[SPEAKER_01]: What drove you after school after this not school, but this this training that you went through, what what didn't you need you would done.
25:43.371 --> 25:47.637
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very out and say hey, you done go go make it happen.
25:47.817 --> 25:51.623
[SPEAKER_00]: It was interesting and the in August of 78.
25:51.603 --> 25:54.908
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's been more than since 72 and May of 72.
25:55.309 --> 25:56.250
[SPEAKER_01]: Glad we got to 78.
25:56.270 --> 25:58.474
[SPEAKER_00]: We're getting here.
25:58.494 --> 26:13.136
[SPEAKER_00]: It's August of 78 and you know, I was doing some, you know, credible work under him, you know, he was giving me a approval on the work, which is, you know, but does he say you're done top?
26:13.557 --> 26:19.686
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you're, you're an artist and now go go make a living.
26:19.666 --> 26:30.168
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was kind of funny in the way I ended my studies with him in 1975, my wife, 74, my wife, and I decided to get married.
26:30.609 --> 26:33.996
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was very nervous because
26:34.313 --> 27:02.565
[SPEAKER_00]: he had not had I think we're all nervous but we got married but go ahead I wasn't nervous well my wife I was nervous about getting thrown out he had been teaching some sort of the program right I said you have to understand where he was coming from the teaching system had collapsed to the point where there really was virtually no one else doing what he was doing so he made a conscious decision he said
27:03.389 --> 27:06.514
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is part of the times, and people today won't approve of it.
27:07.015 --> 27:09.558
[SPEAKER_00]: But he primarily took male students.
27:10.700 --> 27:17.871
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't take women's students because he feared that he'd put all this time into the military and get married and give up pain.
27:19.574 --> 27:23.339
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the perspective back in the 70s.
27:23.359 --> 27:27.085
[SPEAKER_01]: In terms of hiring women, unfortunately, for that being.
27:27.105 --> 27:31.692
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was, but you have, you have to understand
27:32.718 --> 27:40.309
[SPEAKER_00]: this type of painting was very difficult to learn and if he was going to put the time and he wanted to get the maximum benefit out of it.
27:40.429 --> 27:49.802
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was exceedingly nervous that he would kick me out because you know thinking that I, you know, then I had to have to support myself.
27:51.304 --> 27:53.026
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd have to get a job and give him a painting.
27:53.306 --> 27:55.469
[SPEAKER_01]: And your wife would tell you time to make a living.
27:55.710 --> 27:56.291
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
27:56.551 --> 27:56.711
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
27:56.751 --> 27:58.033
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
27:58.013 --> 28:00.717
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, it's funny.
28:00.737 --> 28:05.563
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember, you know, back in those days, you know, people ask you what you're doing.
28:05.583 --> 28:09.889
[SPEAKER_00]: It says a little painter and people would say, but what do you do for work?
28:09.909 --> 28:10.029
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:10.049 --> 28:10.590
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:10.610 --> 28:11.511
[SPEAKER_00]: We got married.
28:11.871 --> 28:11.972
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:11.992 --> 28:16.097
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I continue with them just 78, but what happened in 78, we had a first kid.
28:16.818 --> 28:20.183
[SPEAKER_00]: And then all of a sudden, he called me in one day and he says congratulations.
28:20.243 --> 28:21.304
[SPEAKER_00]: You've graduated.
28:21.284 --> 28:29.320
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you're faced with reality, and you're out on your own, and it's winter, probably, never in summer.
28:30.182 --> 28:30.864
[SPEAKER_00]: When it's coming.
28:31.685 --> 28:31.785
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:31.805 --> 28:33.629
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we had a kid.
28:35.413 --> 28:41.385
[SPEAKER_00]: My wife, she did teach school in situate.
28:41.365 --> 28:43.068
[SPEAKER_00]: but she didn't go back.
28:43.468 --> 28:48.216
[SPEAKER_00]: So it really was all on me, you know, I had to make a living of painting.
28:48.456 --> 28:59.814
[SPEAKER_00]: And the one thing I did understand was, you know, probably around 1975, I realized that, you know, I had to develop the skills to make a living of painting.
29:01.437 --> 29:02.378
[SPEAKER_00]: You know,
29:02.358 --> 29:09.548
[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't live in this ideal world where I just painted what I wanted and did what I wanted.
29:10.910 --> 29:13.174
[SPEAKER_01]: So, there had to be a commercial component to it.
29:13.975 --> 29:15.517
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
29:15.537 --> 29:19.403
[SPEAKER_00]: I always enjoyed meeting people talking about what I'm doing.
29:19.463 --> 29:29.277
[SPEAKER_01]: Was that how you got your first assignment by someone said, hey, you're talented Tom, can you
29:29.257 --> 29:31.660
[SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of interesting.
29:31.680 --> 29:39.952
[SPEAKER_00]: It was an ideal around the South Shore who dealt in 19th century pictures, turning the century pictures.
29:40.052 --> 29:47.703
[SPEAKER_00]: And she had some paintings that I was interested in because they were paintings by my teachers teachers.
29:48.064 --> 29:54.232
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had called her up and she saw my work and she was exceedingly interested.
29:54.312 --> 29:55.534
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had,
29:55.514 --> 29:56.536
[SPEAKER_00]: I had just finished.
29:56.556 --> 30:00.042
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have a gallery or your work at the house?
30:00.422 --> 30:03.988
[SPEAKER_00]: At that time, I had a studio at the Fenway Studios in Boston.
30:04.008 --> 30:11.742
[SPEAKER_00]: We had this magnificent studio, one of the corner studios in that particular building, where we're unbelievable.
30:12.042 --> 30:17.792
[SPEAKER_00]: They were two better apartments with a kitchen, a dining room, a dining room, and a magnificent studio.
30:17.812 --> 30:18.433
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
30:18.413 --> 30:22.619
[SPEAKER_00]: It made me actually look very, very good, much better than I was.
30:22.639 --> 30:24.021
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was a good presentation.
30:24.101 --> 30:25.563
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a great presentation.
30:26.163 --> 30:26.304
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
30:26.344 --> 30:33.934
[SPEAKER_00]: So she came to the studio, she saw the still life that I had just finished and offered to, you know, buy it for $600.
30:34.094 --> 30:36.778
[SPEAKER_01]: And back then, that was a significant amount of money.
30:36.918 --> 30:38.059
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a good sale.
30:38.360 --> 30:40.843
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a good month's rented stuff, sure.
30:40.823 --> 30:42.867
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it got us through.
30:43.288 --> 30:47.136
[SPEAKER_00]: And so she asked me, you know, anything you do, you know, I'll buy it.
30:47.317 --> 30:48.700
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was a still life.
30:48.720 --> 30:50.042
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a still life painting.
30:50.063 --> 30:50.864
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
30:50.884 --> 30:51.806
[SPEAKER_00]: That first painting.
30:51.826 --> 31:01.667
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to thought that your, your, you would be asked to do a lot of portraits because that would be commercially I would think a fast way to turn some money.
31:01.647 --> 31:05.732
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did do a lot of portraits, but this deal came back to me.
31:06.152 --> 31:10.758
[SPEAKER_00]: I finished another one, and I call it, I said I got another still there.
31:10.978 --> 31:13.461
[SPEAKER_00]: But this time, I was much smarter.
31:13.541 --> 31:18.867
[SPEAKER_00]: I put a beautiful 23-carot gold frame on the picture.
31:18.887 --> 31:19.488
[SPEAKER_01]: That's so nice.
31:19.508 --> 31:20.208
[SPEAKER_01]: It charts so many.
31:20.949 --> 31:21.991
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was interesting.
31:22.031 --> 31:23.933
[SPEAKER_00]: And I learned a really valuable lesson.
31:25.314 --> 31:29.359
[SPEAKER_00]: The frame at that time, you know, would today would probably cost
31:29.997 --> 31:36.834
[SPEAKER_00]: $1800 across me a hundred dollars for that frame and the picture was the same size and it was the same quality.
31:37.596 --> 31:40.684
[SPEAKER_00]: I sold the picture the second one for $1200.
31:40.744 --> 31:46.538
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also realized that
31:46.518 --> 31:55.792
[SPEAKER_00]: The most important thing, most painters today don't realize that you have to be in command and control of your own market and your own business.
31:59.437 --> 32:00.399
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like any business.
32:01.821 --> 32:05.907
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to have a specific product that people can identify and has value.
32:06.909 --> 32:11.175
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have to market it, sell it, package it the way that you think.
32:11.155 --> 32:17.162
[SPEAKER_01]: It best represents your skillset and the desirability of the market plan.
32:17.182 --> 32:30.016
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, tragically in the outwell, we have this very inefficient gallery system, which does not work at all for the artists, but yet people keep going back to it.
32:30.377 --> 32:31.718
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no other business.
32:31.959 --> 32:36.724
[SPEAKER_01]: Online business has not become a better source of independence for an artist.
32:36.940 --> 32:44.436
[SPEAKER_00]: It is, you know, people are beginning to realize that, but the gallery system is still like the key system.
32:44.576 --> 32:46.780
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the system most people use.
32:47.863 --> 32:51.129
[SPEAKER_00]: It works for certain people, but the average person doesn't work.
32:51.350 --> 32:56.721
[SPEAKER_01]: You were painting for years and making living, not your own gallery, but you know,
32:56.701 --> 32:58.624
[SPEAKER_00]: Just, you know, it's interesting.
32:58.644 --> 32:59.786
[SPEAKER_00]: Just networking.
32:59.806 --> 33:00.186
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
33:00.206 --> 33:05.094
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, just, you know, making sure you, you know, you meet the right people.
33:05.895 --> 33:07.137
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
33:07.157 --> 33:10.983
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you get known as well because people say, hey, Tom, Tom's pretty good.
33:11.023 --> 33:12.185
[SPEAKER_01]: You might want to look at his work.
33:12.245 --> 33:23.923
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I know I was introduced to you with a continuing connection here, my friend Ernie,
33:23.903 --> 33:26.169
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's a wonderful patron.
33:26.510 --> 33:29.679
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know he's a great patron for a lot of people.
33:29.879 --> 33:31.764
[SPEAKER_00]: He's an amazing guy.
33:31.804 --> 33:32.145
[SPEAKER_00]: He does.
33:32.506 --> 33:34.732
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, people don't give him credit.
33:34.853 --> 33:36.317
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just enough credit.
33:36.457 --> 33:37.520
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:37.560 --> 33:39.465
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially with the music drives us there.
33:39.445 --> 33:53.343
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, all of his foundations, but despite you today, but I walked in, I saw one, the painting, the one with a snowing, it's my favorite painting years, by the way.
33:55.285 --> 34:01.413
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a quality to it, a softness to it.
34:01.673 --> 34:02.895
[SPEAKER_01]: Quite a quietness.
34:03.095 --> 34:07.140
[SPEAKER_01]: And a Bostonian feel that
34:07.120 --> 34:10.967
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone in the winter that's walked through Boston, downtown.
34:11.188 --> 34:11.648
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thank you.
34:11.749 --> 34:13.512
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's what I was talking about.
34:13.572 --> 34:16.698
[SPEAKER_01]: I felt that moment and I love that painting.
34:16.718 --> 34:20.585
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's also representative of your style.
34:21.106 --> 34:26.235
[SPEAKER_01]: So talk a little bit about the style you've because to me, again, I'm a novice.
34:26.255 --> 34:28.460
[SPEAKER_01]: Please excuse me, I'm not an art critic, brandy means.
34:29.782 --> 34:30.343
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know,
34:30.323 --> 34:31.265
[SPEAKER_01]: That's an advantage.
34:31.445 --> 34:51.927
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, it probably is on some level, but you know, what is the, what, describe the Tom Dudley style, not, I understand you're, you know, you're in the Boston School of Art, but describe your sense of style and how you go about achieving that style as you develop stuff for people.
34:52.008 --> 35:05.344
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the way I like my work to be known or if people want to know what I was thinking, what my intentions were, what my concept was for a picture.
35:05.384 --> 35:16.637
[SPEAKER_00]: It's that classic view that isn't gutsyed up with lots of silly nonsense anecdotal.
35:16.838 --> 35:21.323
[SPEAKER_00]: It's that moment walking through the public
35:21.303 --> 35:31.396
[SPEAKER_01]: But you have this softest to your paintings, and this sense of light, that always light seems to be the star.
35:32.457 --> 35:33.018
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I correct?
35:34.040 --> 35:37.003
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and how the light falls over the floor?
35:37.023 --> 35:42.190
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've noticed that seems to be a signature for you, in terms of everything I see.
35:42.230 --> 35:50.601
[SPEAKER_01]: The focuses around the light and the rest is sort of
35:50.581 --> 35:59.089
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think most of us, you know, our lives are so busy and we're walking around, you know, whether it's a public garden in Boston or deep in hill or.
35:59.204 --> 36:03.608
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you're having this painting down here right now, I obviously know what you can see here.
36:04.048 --> 36:12.936
[SPEAKER_01]: But the building, the focuses on the windows and the building and the snowy day in the Boston Public Gardens.
36:13.557 --> 36:23.405
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've all been there towards the end of the winter when the lights are starting to get really pronounced and spring is on the way.
36:23.566 --> 36:26.808
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can tell when it was basically done by the light.
36:26.989 --> 36:28.570
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, exactly.
36:28.550 --> 36:30.527
[SPEAKER_00]: You know the clear day with that
36:30.980 --> 36:43.896
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, temperature is, you know, a little bit lower, the atmosphere gets a little cleaner, clearer, bluer, a long cash shadow, you know, which is characteristic of that part of the public garden.
36:44.116 --> 36:50.904
[SPEAKER_00]: But I will actually get back to, you know, you were asking, you know, what was the pivotal point?
36:51.865 --> 37:00.075
[SPEAKER_00]: What was the turning point, you know, in my career in terms of success and all
37:00.055 --> 37:02.940
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure if you are familiar with it.
37:03.281 --> 37:04.603
[SPEAKER_00]: It's called Winter Snowfall.
37:05.365 --> 37:07.088
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a picture.
37:07.108 --> 37:07.809
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not too big.
37:07.849 --> 37:11.175
[SPEAKER_00]: It's on the 18 by 26 or so in size.
37:12.297 --> 37:12.959
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's the end.
37:13.279 --> 37:20.933
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the looking at the bridge and the public garden, looking downtown.
37:21.520 --> 37:29.728
[SPEAKER_00]: And this picture was painted in 1981 and it was a time when the skyline was very, very much different.
37:29.808 --> 37:31.209
[SPEAKER_01]: You can actually see the question.
37:31.510 --> 37:35.073
[SPEAKER_01]: When you can enjoy Boston without the clutter.
37:35.794 --> 37:37.315
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's just terrible.
37:37.495 --> 37:38.636
[SPEAKER_01]: I miss Boston.
37:38.656 --> 37:39.377
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about you.
37:39.437 --> 37:44.842
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm an old school guy and I don't like the way Boston is growing.
37:45.703 --> 37:48.726
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's becoming much hot, yes, that's it.
37:48.706 --> 37:57.902
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I've seen that it's become a much harder to find those kinds of views, that's a wonderful, wonderful painting.
37:58.302 --> 38:06.296
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll tell you interesting story about that picture and it is what sort of sealed, you know, my success.
38:06.636 --> 38:09.381
[SPEAKER_00]: It was interesting, that picture.
38:09.361 --> 38:18.937
[SPEAKER_00]: I, that picture has been a business in itself my entire life, you know, through reproductions, greeting cards, limited.
38:19.338 --> 38:21.041
[SPEAKER_01]: So you still own the picture?
38:21.141 --> 38:32.280
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what was interesting was, I painted in 1981 and at that time I had my studio above the Gildaboss, and I noticed on Newbury Street,
38:32.260 --> 38:33.702
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's very convenient.
38:33.742 --> 38:37.909
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a member there and I worked at 165 new purchased.
38:37.929 --> 38:38.850
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh wow.
38:39.311 --> 38:39.872
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.
38:39.932 --> 38:42.776
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going right down the street for each other.
38:42.796 --> 38:43.036
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
38:43.177 --> 38:43.417
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
38:43.878 --> 38:51.810
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I finished the picture, I brought it down to the gallery manager and I asked her to put it in the window.
38:52.451 --> 38:58.740
[SPEAKER_00]: It's put it in the window and that's a crop version of it.
38:59.277 --> 39:05.146
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, she put it in the window and I just gone out to lunch with a friend who wanted to buy the picture.
39:06.087 --> 39:11.395
[SPEAKER_00]: And at that time in 1981, I had posted, you know, a fairly aggressive lead.
39:11.415 --> 39:12.937
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was $6,500.
39:13.478 --> 39:18.265
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is a lot of money, but yeah, yeah, that's probably equivalent to about a $30,000 painting.
39:18.285 --> 39:19.446
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, $40,000 dollar painting.
39:19.727 --> 39:19.987
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:20.007 --> 39:22.551
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
39:22.531 --> 39:26.702
[SPEAKER_00]: I go out to lunch with this, you know, friend who's a client, we come back.
39:26.762 --> 39:29.429
[SPEAKER_00]: He, he didn't pull the trigger, you know, during lunch.
39:29.690 --> 39:37.671
[SPEAKER_00]: So we come back and the gallery manager says, oh, you know, the follow-up stage just bought it.
39:38.562 --> 39:41.245
[SPEAKER_00]: So my friend, you know, missed out on the picture.
39:41.685 --> 39:50.754
[SPEAKER_00]: But what was interesting was we started a card company, a greeting card company, and that picture for 25 years.
39:51.074 --> 39:55.418
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so did you have to go back to the person you purchased it from and get the rights?
39:55.718 --> 39:56.039
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
39:56.059 --> 39:59.902
[SPEAKER_01]: Or do you lose your rights when you give a painting of yours way?
39:59.942 --> 40:01.604
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, when you...
40:01.724 --> 40:03.546
[SPEAKER_01]: This is common when you produce a commercial.
40:04.707 --> 40:06.088
[SPEAKER_01]: It's theirs, you have no rights.
40:06.068 --> 40:12.736
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what's interesting, if they buy a picture that you've already painted, you retain the rates automatically.
40:13.957 --> 40:17.562
[SPEAKER_00]: If you do a commission, they retain the rates.
40:17.582 --> 40:19.203
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the difference.
40:19.223 --> 40:20.044
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, interesting.
40:20.064 --> 40:24.109
[SPEAKER_00]: So I did on the rates on that.
40:24.289 --> 40:28.755
[SPEAKER_00]: And when the person bought it, you know, we did a verbal on that.
40:28.975 --> 40:31.158
[SPEAKER_00]: But here's where the story gets interesting.
40:32.739 --> 40:34.101
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you know David
40:34.300 --> 40:37.564
[SPEAKER_01]: I met David Moogor over the years.
40:37.744 --> 40:38.024
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:38.405 --> 40:43.710
[SPEAKER_00]: So a year after the pictures painted, I get a call from David Moogor.
40:44.531 --> 40:44.752
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:45.532 --> 40:46.373
[SPEAKER_00]: I want that picture.
40:46.674 --> 40:49.317
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the public garden picture.
40:49.717 --> 40:50.618
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, oh, I'm sorry.
40:50.658 --> 40:52.160
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not available.
40:52.500 --> 40:53.401
[SPEAKER_00]: It's on privately.
40:54.322 --> 40:55.403
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, all right.
40:55.744 --> 40:58.587
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the next year, I get a call.
40:58.567 --> 40:59.953
[SPEAKER_00]: then actually I get a call.
41:00.416 --> 41:06.062
[SPEAKER_00]: I get a call all the way up to 1988 and then I get a call from my owner.
41:06.346 --> 41:07.347
[SPEAKER_00]: of the picture.
41:07.608 --> 41:09.350
[SPEAKER_00]: And he says, Tom, I want to sell a picture.
41:10.071 --> 41:11.933
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's going to be expensive.
41:12.513 --> 41:14.075
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is 88.
41:15.237 --> 41:17.399
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, well, how much do you want for it?
41:18.521 --> 41:21.264
[SPEAKER_00]: These are the, I want to go 100 grams.
41:21.284 --> 41:25.669
[SPEAKER_00]: So I said, well, David Miragar has been chasing it for six or seven years.
41:26.250 --> 41:27.872
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm happy to present it to him.
41:28.092 --> 41:30.996
[SPEAKER_00]: So I pick up the picture and bring it home and put it over.
41:31.336 --> 41:32.758
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully you get a commission out of this.
41:32.738 --> 41:33.840
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I did.
41:33.860 --> 41:35.863
[SPEAKER_00]: He was very generous on that.
41:36.444 --> 41:48.082
[SPEAKER_00]: I put it on, you know, but my mantle and David pulls out his, his checkbook and, you know, there's no cover on it, just a check and you write up the hiring.
41:48.142 --> 41:48.422
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice.
41:49.544 --> 41:51.206
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's a beautiful, it's amazing picture.
41:51.266 --> 42:00.180
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so what, the interesting thing is what happened right after that, I actually had a dip in sales that was getting tough to sell pictures.
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[SPEAKER_00]: because everybody thought everything was going to be a hundred grand.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But what I did was, you know, that was a one-off at that time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And the way I handled it was, you know, I kept with my regular processing, you know, which was, sure, going up and everything.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So once people realized that not everything was a hundred grand,
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[SPEAKER_00]: All of a sudden, everything looked like a value because I wasn't pricing it based on that picture and that worked to my advantage tremendously.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So what made you start your school?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because I know that's a big passion of yours and where you spend a lot of time down.
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[SPEAKER_00]: A sense of gratitude and obligation to my teacher.
42:47.798 --> 42:53.726
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the other things I didn't tell you about him was he was extremely wealthy himself.
42:54.166 --> 42:56.669
[SPEAKER_00]: He was from an old Providence and Newport family.
42:57.330 --> 43:00.694
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we studied with him, we were supported.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we were given a stipend.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We actually given a car.
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[SPEAKER_00]: All our supplies were paid for a studio.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Different time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it really was.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, studying with him, I mean, it was basically six and a half years of not having a care in the world.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, but what I learned from him gave me my life.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, gave me the opportunity to, you know, have my own family, you know, raise kids, you know, do what I wanted, you know, have a great life.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a tremendous revival of this type of painting going on, but a lot of it is, it's not quite, you know, on the, on the standard, you know, that he had set.
43:57.133 --> 44:05.342
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to make sure that his teaching, you know, is presented properly or you the last link to Sergeant.
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[SPEAKER_00]: No, there's actually there's of his students, his three of us who there's only a 10 of us left 18 year 18 students during his lifetime, I mean serious full-time students, many, many people past that was doing, I mean hundreds and hundreds.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Some people lasted a day.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He was incredibly high person to work with, you know, for a lot of people.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he was a real task master.
44:32.054 --> 44:41.353
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people lasted a week, a month, you know, but they were only 18 of us that studied with them, you know, more than four or five years.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, my goal is to, you know, have this really pure form of, you know, his teaching and the Boston School.
44:49.491 --> 44:54.181
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's, there's, um, two other, uh, schools.
44:54.742 --> 44:58.009
[SPEAKER_00]: What, what is in northern New Hampshire right now, falling birds and,
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[SPEAKER_00]: And we were students together under Mr. Gamble.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's a school in Florence, Charles Cecil, who was a Florence Hiddly.
45:06.641 --> 45:07.543
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Florence Hiddly.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's interesting because it's Florence.
45:10.787 --> 45:11.028
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So it attracts, because the environment there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I've been many times, so it is a incredibly creative environment.
45:19.700 --> 45:20.301
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And he has many, many students from England and whatnot.
45:24.190 --> 45:29.042
[SPEAKER_00]: He's also been doing it longer, both of them have had their schools to 30 years.
45:29.443 --> 45:37.783
[SPEAKER_00]: I've always taught, but it was on an individual mentoring basis, and I've only had the more formal school for about eight years.
45:38.118 --> 45:42.703
[SPEAKER_01]: And what about the net tuck it and main experiences that you create?
45:42.723 --> 45:56.319
[SPEAKER_00]: Those workshops are, you know, there's a workshop, you know, there for serious landscape students, you know, people who, you know, want to understand what, you know, how painting was taught at the turn of the previous century.
45:58.121 --> 46:03.467
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a, it's funny, this thing about the museum that
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[SPEAKER_00]: caring about their own heritage, but there's a tremendous link with Boston and Monet.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There was a woman pain above her, named Lilacavit Perry.
46:16.922 --> 46:21.567
[SPEAKER_00]: She was Monet's neighbor and it helped him design and build his gardens.
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[SPEAKER_00]: She was a Boston painter.
46:23.789 --> 46:32.138
[SPEAKER_00]: She was a contemporary of my teacher.
46:32.118 --> 46:36.384
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were a number of way in Paxton who was my teacher.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He studied briefly with Monae.
46:39.789 --> 46:43.814
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is tremendous connection with Boston and Monae.
46:44.315 --> 46:45.476
[SPEAKER_01]: You've worn many awards.
46:46.278 --> 46:48.160
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me what's your most proud of.
46:49.021 --> 46:52.486
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't...
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[SPEAKER_00]: exhibit in competitive exhibitions much anymore because I mean it's ridiculous, you know, there's no criteria.
47:03.298 --> 47:08.007
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, most of these major shows, you know, there's no serious criteria.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But it was actually one of my earliest awards.
47:11.774 --> 47:19.891
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it was, it's one of the only ones I mentioned was 1975 that you had martial exhibition out of your, remember?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you were in March downtown.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they, they had an annual exhibition.
47:26.590 --> 47:33.918
[SPEAKER_00]: was started in the teens or 20s, you know, I mean probably about 1910 that continued in 1975.
47:34.859 --> 47:42.608
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and the last exhibition held in 1975, that was, I entered that one.
47:43.549 --> 47:52.699
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was midway through my studies and I won the most gold medal for the most popular picture, you know, it was a Boston picture.
47:52.679 --> 48:01.369
[SPEAKER_00]: So there were, there were still some painters from my teachers generation who were exhibiting back then.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was a very much different world.
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[SPEAKER_01]: How do you want Tom Dunley to be remembered as an artist, you know, when it's time to hang the brush out, the great part about artists that your work is still going to live longer than you and me?
48:20.639 --> 48:34.077
[SPEAKER_00]: That is the interesting part about it, you know, I mean, hopefully the work stands for itself and what it is and it is recognized, you know, with good pictures, with good paintings,
48:34.057 --> 48:47.933
[SPEAKER_00]: There's always an inexplicable element to them that you can recognize quality and I hope that's something that people recognize in my work.
48:49.114 --> 48:49.955
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: One never knows once you go, what's going to happen.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I would like to be thought of as
49:00.787 --> 49:11.097
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, as a serious honest painter, you know, whose goal was to, you know, paint the beauty of nature and the world around us, you know, the way it appears.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I, I, I did my part and trying to continue this great tradition that I've been so blessed to be part of.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Tom Dunley, thank you so much for coming today and telling your story.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was a great pleasure Bruce.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for joining.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We hope you listen to our next episode as we continue to bring an extraordinary people willing to tell their stories.
49:40.569 --> 49:46.015
[SPEAKER_01]: And remember, no matter the odds, no matter the circumstances, no matter what life may bring.
49:46.615 --> 49:56.106
[SPEAKER_01]: There's an opportunity for greatness within each of us when we learn to fly.
