Analyst Talk - Vanessa Martinovici - The More Than Crime Mapping Analyst

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Welcome to Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
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It's like coffee with an analyst or
whiskey with an analyst while organizing
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a spreadsheet, linking crime events,
uncovering patterns, identifying a
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series, and getting the latest updates on
associations, training, and technology.
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So have a good walk, drive safely, or
enjoy your run while joining us as we
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define the law enforcement analysis
profession one episode at a time.
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Thank you for joining me.
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I hope many aspects of
your life are progressing.
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My name is Jason Elder, and today
our guest has four years of law
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enforcement analysis experience.
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She is currently the criminal intelligence
analyst with the Rocky Mountain
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Information Network in Phoenix, Arizona.
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She's a certified analyst with Arizona
Law Enforcement Analyst Academy.
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She holds a bachelor's in science
in criminal justice and criminology
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from Arizona State University.
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She's also a board member of the
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Arizona Association of Crime Analysis
representing the great state of Arizona,
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please welcome Vanessa Martinovici.
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Vanessa, how we doing?
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Good, Jason.
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How are you doing today?
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I am doing very well.
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Is it still hot in Phoenix?
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Oh, man, I think we're rocking
a good 110 out right now.
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It's a dry heat.
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It's a dry heat.
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Isn't that what they say?
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Yeah, and you know what?
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It's fr- it comes from people
who don't live here, so-
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Yeah
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I'm like, you know what?
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Fair.
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I don't think I would like
living in the humidity, so-
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Yeah … I
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guess it just evens out.
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Yeah.
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You do, the thing about it is you
do have to worry about the dryness.
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I remember just getting my butt
kicked in Las Vegas the one visit-
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Oh, yeah … because I just was not
drinking enough water, and I was
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just super dehydrated by the end- It-
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of the week.
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It'll catch up to you really q- it
still catches some people off guard
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that have lived here for 10-plus years.
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You'll just be doing your r-
daily errands, and then all of
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a sudden you feel God-awful.
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So yeah, it still
catches people off guard.
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Yeah.
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Oh, man.
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That's I don't know.
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I, and I, yeah it was
quite a shock for me.
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So now when I make sure when I go to these
areas that are drier, that I make sure
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that I drink more than I normally do.
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So- Yep … that's the fun t- that's
the fun tip today, ladies- Yep … and
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gentlemen, for those, drink more water,
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yep, especially if you
come to the West Coast.
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All right, Vanessa, how did you discover
the law enforcement analysis profession?
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All right, so my first introduction to the
field was actually through my internship
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at the Arizona Attorney General's office
from August of 2022 to May of 2023.
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They didn't actually have analysts
at the time at that agency, but
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obviously because you're an intern
and you're not sworn, you're doing
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more analytical investigative work,
or I should say investigative support.
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So I would work alongside the special
agents, reviewing all the same things
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that they're reviewing, writing, assisting
in writing probable cause statements.
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And actually beginning that
internship, I didn't know that crime
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analysts or criminal intelligence
analysts or investigative analysts
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were a thing in the field.
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I thought it was you go sworn
or you're more admin support.
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So it was interesting to learn
through my special agent mentors at
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the attorney general's office that,
crime analysis is a field, and they
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do have investigative analysts.
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So that kind of opened up my eyes
to that world, and then after the
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AG's office, I came to my current
agency, which is actually comprised
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of all different types of analysts.
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We have audio visual or
video forensic analysts.
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We have digital forensics analysts.
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We have forensic fraud
accounting analysts.
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So we have intelligence research
analysts, and we have my role.
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So going from not knowing
analysts existed to ending up in
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an agency that is all analysts.
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Man.
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That's a little depressing, when you say
you just discovered the law enforcement
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analysis profession, that's like 2022.
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I know.
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So that's four years ago that, I- … we
still have s- college students not
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knowing what law enforcement analysis is.
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And I will… I love ASU Forks Up.
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I won't talk about the master's
program because they do have a
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crime analysis master's program.
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But as far as the criminology and criminal
justice bachelor's of science- all of
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the professors are mainly prior sworn
or still currently sworn personnel.
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And they don't have any
actual crime analysis classes.
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So I just didn't learn about it.
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I did policing courses, death
investigation courses, forensic
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courses as far as crime scenes.
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But nothing- a- the closest that I got to
it was research methods and statistics.
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And again, that wasn't really
crime analysis, it was just looking
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at s- stats, across the US, not
any, for anything super specific.
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So I do think that ASU could do a
better job, and I think the criminology
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and criminal justice major, as
it's very general, should be, more
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inclusive to civilian roles as well.
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So how did the internship at the attorney
general's office even get in your purview?
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So actually I grew up working
in the service industry,
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the food service industry.
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And so I was working at a restaurant
called Rough Rider, which is in
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downtown Phoenix which is where I lived.
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And my general manager at the time,
she knew the major that I was in,
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and that, I was approaching my
senior year and needed an internship.
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It is a requirement.
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And she was like, "Oh my gosh, I
actually interned a while ago at
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the Arizona Attorney General's
office." And I was like, "What?"
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And so she provided me an email to the
internship coordinator at the time.
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And I shot them an email with
my resume, and luckily it panned
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out and I got the interview.
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But yeah, I always give her credit
because- Nice … if she wouldn't
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have told me about that internship,
it was… man, internships in this
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field are very difficult to get.
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Yes.
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So I'm very fortunate that she
gave me that recommendation, and
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then it just went from there.
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Yeah.
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And and y- and this is, you were there 10
months, which is a nice chunk to really,
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to really- Yes … learn some things.
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I loved it there.
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My two mentors, my biggest mentors there,
we're still very close personal friends.
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I also wouldn't be where I'm at today
without them and their leadership.
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And so yeah it was a great experience
overall, and an internship in
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this field is what you make of it.
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So- Yeah … I- So- Yeah, it, it- because
of that internship I am where I am today.
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Yeah.
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So who were your mentors?
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Or do you not wanna name them?
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So Cassidy Richardson is one of them,
and then I won't name the other one.
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He's a little bit more private and just-
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Okay
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…
likes to keep on the down low.
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But, Yeah … Cassidy Richardson is one
of them, and she has just been such a rock
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throughout this journey- Nice … in my
career, and I think that's so important.
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Being, entering the field as a new analyst
is having that mentor and that person
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that can really guide you into the field.
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So yeah, I'm very appreciative of her.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I know.
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G- very good.
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Yeah, we like to n- name drop
on this show, But I understand.
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I understand that some
people like to remain- Yeah
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private,
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so no pressure.
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Off the grid.
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Yeah, no pressure.
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He doesn't even have social media.
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He doesn't…
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All right.
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This actually brings us to your analyst
badge story, at least one of them.
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We're gonna have a second one, but for
those that may be new to the show, the
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analyst badge story is a career-defining
case or project that an analyst works.
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And so you get involved as an
intern with a pretty important case.
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Yes.
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So I wanna say about a couple months
into the internship, they were working
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a big EBT fraud and skimming fraud case.
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It was involving Romanian travelers.
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And so they actually found out by
mentioning that case, I was like, "Oh,
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I'm a dual citizen with Romania, and
I actually grew up speaking Romanian."
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And so that was a cool way where they
were like, "Okay great, we need a lot
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of assistance on this case." There were
about 18 plus suspects in the case.
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60 plus incidences of, organized
retail theft, of placing the sk-
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the skimming devices at gas stations
and, retail stores, and then cloning
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gift cards and stealing EBT funds.
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So it was massive.
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It came from the Secret Service
office, and they just at the time did
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not have the personnel to work it.
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And the agent, the special agents
working the case were just bombarded.
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Thousands of hours of surveillance,
footage, hundreds of, you know-
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Asset protection reports that were
given from the retailers to review,
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and then they had placed trackers
on the cars, so GPS coordinates
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constantly needing to be mapped.
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So we were thrown in to assist in any
way that we could, which really is
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that analytical investigative support.
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And the day that these search warrants
finally happened, there are only about
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three Romanian… law enforcement
Romanian translators in Arizona.
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And that day we were
hitting so many residences.
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I think we hit 13, 14
residences all at the same time.
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So we had a lot of help from
Phoenix PD and other agencies.
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The Romanian translator with the
Phoenix Police Department came in
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a little bit later that day, and
also was just super stretched thin.
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And so that day they had never had
interns in the field before, and
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that day you said, "You know what?
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You pretty much know this case like
the back of your hand, and you also
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can assist in translating." Because
they had noticed after they secured the
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scenes and were trying to identify the
suspects, they weren't very forthcoming,
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and they didn't know if it was because
they didn't speak English or if it
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was because they were intimidated.
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A lot of them were women, so
if they were intimidated by,
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big men with vests and guns.
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And so they just said, "Hey, can you
come in actually and help identify them?"
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So by no means conducting interviews or
anything like that, but just assisting
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and trying to get, names, date of births,
any Trying to ask them to start locating
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their documents as they were undocumented.
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And so that was huge.
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And also we noticed that I told, the
supporting agencies because they had
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the workup packets, but obviously
they hadn't been working the case.
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So these suspects were name swapping.
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Romanian names tend to be very
long as you can tell by my name.
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And they were name swapping.
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And so I actually… We had
to s- you know, take a step
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back and say, "You know what?
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It's not this person that
we're, here to arrest.
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It's actually this person, but they're
name swapping." So that was very
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cool just to be given that credit of
"Hey, you know this case so well, and
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you can also-" "be of assistance to
translate." That really opened my eyes
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into investigative analysis and that
you don't need to be sworn to, assist
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in the pursuit of justice in this field.
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Yeah.
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I guess what were some, some
additional things you discovered
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by being part of the interviews?
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This obviously was a group of
Romanians, and you described
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the fraud and the skimming going
on, but was there any additional
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characteristics specific to this case?
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What I did learn, and which is not
something that I knew prior, I knew
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that this sort of fraud existed, right?
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And I- … I didn't realize
how truly organized it is.
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And I also learned, that the money
was being wired back to Romania.
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So it it then hit that transnational
aspect, which also opened my eyes to,
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someone may think, okay, low level
EBT fraud or, s- skimming devices.
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Okay, so a lot of people
would be like, "Eh,"
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but it opened up my eyes to how big
these organized crime rings are.
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And really, they're stealing millions of
dollars of, people who are receiving those
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EBT benefits who are families in need.
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And so that really… I mainly
work persons crimes r- now, but-
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…
Organized retail crime will always
have a special place in my heart, and
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that really opened up my eyes to how
much that actually affects people.
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And even if they're stealing from
retailers, a lot of baby formula,
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stolen baby formula was also a big
part of this these search warrants.
234
00:11:31,465 --> 00:11:34,615
And that was actually during the
height of the shortage of baby formula.
235
00:11:34,625 --> 00:11:38,315
So they would steal the baby formula
from the retailers, and because
236
00:11:38,315 --> 00:11:42,305
there was a shortage at these
stores, they would resell them online
237
00:11:42,305 --> 00:11:43,975
for double or triple the price.
238
00:11:44,115 --> 00:11:44,495
Yeah.
239
00:11:44,805 --> 00:11:48,735
So a lot of different, facets, but
mainly I learned that, how organized
240
00:11:48,735 --> 00:11:50,765
and advanced they are really.
241
00:11:50,895 --> 00:11:51,165
Yeah.
242
00:11:51,635 --> 00:11:58,185
How about you as an intern just getting
started with the attorney's office, what
243
00:11:58,185 --> 00:12:00,855
was some of the data that you analyzed?
244
00:12:00,995 --> 00:12:05,075
Obviously, you talked about, some
telephone - tolls and some GPS
245
00:12:05,075 --> 00:12:07,445
but what were some of the other
data sets that you analyzed?
246
00:12:07,755 --> 00:12:12,745
Mainly, I would say we had to do a
lot of open source intelligence to get
247
00:12:12,745 --> 00:12:14,305
some really good workups done on them.
248
00:12:14,335 --> 00:12:18,475
Again, they're, they are all undocumented,
so it was pretty- … difficult to try and
249
00:12:18,475 --> 00:12:20,745
find the correct records for each person.
250
00:12:20,745 --> 00:12:23,515
Obviously, make sure that they're
going to arrest the correct people.
251
00:12:23,605 --> 00:12:28,005
Also we, I analyzed and reviewed about
thousands of hours of surveillance
252
00:12:28,015 --> 00:12:32,945
footage to try and place certain suspects
at certain incidences or incidents.
253
00:12:33,065 --> 00:12:37,345
Because we would receive the reports
from the asset protection personnel
254
00:12:37,345 --> 00:12:41,125
from these retailers, but at that
time they hadn't identified who…
255
00:12:41,375 --> 00:12:44,995
because it's a big group, so these
three might be involved in this one
256
00:12:45,005 --> 00:12:48,925
incident, but then another three may
be involved in the second incident that
257
00:12:48,925 --> 00:12:50,825
day at a different Kroger location.
258
00:12:51,205 --> 00:12:55,675
So really trying to identify which
suspects were present in which
259
00:12:55,795 --> 00:12:59,705
incidents, which would lead into how many
incidences they could be charged for.
260
00:12:59,895 --> 00:13:02,245
And then again, yeah, a lot
of GPS data for tracking the
261
00:13:02,245 --> 00:13:03,925
vehicles with the GPS trackers.
262
00:13:03,925 --> 00:13:08,705
We also had to perform almost pattern
of life analysis based off of that.
263
00:13:08,705 --> 00:13:11,695
So when they would get home, when they
would lay their heads down for the rest
264
00:13:11,695 --> 00:13:13,885
of the evening, when they would wake up.
265
00:13:14,155 --> 00:13:18,295
Through that we learnt that they would
go straight to the casinos and with their
266
00:13:18,295 --> 00:13:20,435
money and gamble a large amount of money.
267
00:13:20,435 --> 00:13:25,465
So then also the casino footage y-
took place into the investigation
268
00:13:25,465 --> 00:13:30,087
and seeing how much money, that
they were gambling and also, what
269
00:13:30,087 --> 00:13:33,667
is that when you… There's Facebook
Marketplace records, and then there's
270
00:13:33,667 --> 00:13:37,267
another place where you sell items,
and I can't remember the name of it.
271
00:13:37,367 --> 00:13:37,927
It's like an app
272
00:13:38,337 --> 00:13:39,607
Like Nextdoor or Craigslist?
273
00:13:41,347 --> 00:13:44,077
It's like a Craigslist, but
it's… Gosh, I can't remember.
274
00:13:44,207 --> 00:13:46,747
But it's basically like another
form of Facebook Marketplace.
275
00:13:46,827 --> 00:13:49,397
And so they would take those,
like I said, the baby formula or
276
00:13:49,397 --> 00:13:53,257
the stolen items and resell them
to make a good amount of profit.
277
00:13:53,347 --> 00:13:55,857
So we also needed those
records and warrant returns to
278
00:13:55,857 --> 00:13:57,597
analyze, okay, who set up…
279
00:13:57,707 --> 00:14:01,187
Try and identify which one of them
set up these accounts, how many
280
00:14:01,187 --> 00:14:05,157
items they had listed to sell,
how much profit they were making.
281
00:14:05,257 --> 00:14:08,477
So that, that was some of the
other data that we had to analyze.
282
00:14:08,507 --> 00:14:12,007
But a lot of it was the information
that we got from Asset Protection and
283
00:14:12,007 --> 00:14:16,117
then GPS and surveillance footage to
tie all of the incidences together.
284
00:14:16,317 --> 00:14:16,337
Yeah.
285
00:14:16,477 --> 00:14:21,687
Do… Was there a final tally
of how much money and value
286
00:14:21,787 --> 00:14:24,327
the, the investigation was?
287
00:14:24,507 --> 00:14:28,017
At least a couple hundred
thousand dollars, at least.
288
00:14:28,017 --> 00:14:30,137
I think I'm actually low-balling that.
289
00:14:30,147 --> 00:14:32,027
I really can't remember the exact number.
290
00:14:32,087 --> 00:14:35,247
Attorney General Kris Mayes did
actually do a press conference about it.
291
00:14:35,247 --> 00:14:38,787
So anyone could look up Arizona
Attorney General's Office baby
292
00:14:38,787 --> 00:14:41,927
formula- … eBT organized crime ring.
293
00:14:42,007 --> 00:14:44,817
Yeah … and there's the, her
press conference about it.
294
00:14:44,957 --> 00:14:48,177
But it was a large amount, especially…
And I don't think… The hundreds of
295
00:14:48,177 --> 00:14:53,067
thousands of dollars, I believe, is
from the EBT and the skimming devices.
296
00:14:53,397 --> 00:14:56,517
The EBT cloning and skimming devices,
that's not even counting the actual
297
00:14:56,517 --> 00:14:59,257
stolen merchandise and the baby formula.
298
00:14:59,327 --> 00:15:03,377
And what's unfortunate is they had
hundreds of containers of baby formula,
299
00:15:03,397 --> 00:15:07,677
and obviously you can't… You have
to toss it after the prosecution
300
00:15:07,677 --> 00:15:09,057
and everything is adjudicated.
301
00:15:09,067 --> 00:15:11,157
There's nothing you could do
about it, so it was sad to see
302
00:15:11,157 --> 00:15:13,017
that, baby formula go to waste.
303
00:15:13,567 --> 00:15:13,617
Yeah.
304
00:15:13,617 --> 00:15:13,937
All right.
305
00:15:13,987 --> 00:15:18,937
So after your internship, I see
that you do get hired on for
306
00:15:18,937 --> 00:15:20,947
the Attorney General's office.
307
00:15:21,397 --> 00:15:26,757
And then, but then only there
quickly go on to the Rocky
308
00:15:26,757 --> 00:15:28,857
Mountain Information Network.
309
00:15:28,977 --> 00:15:29,237
Yes.
310
00:15:29,237 --> 00:15:31,187
Talk about that, transition then.
311
00:15:31,367 --> 00:15:35,127
So I actually, like I said, at that
time the AG's office didn't have
312
00:15:35,127 --> 00:15:37,257
any analyst roles or positions.
313
00:15:37,267 --> 00:15:38,977
And they didn't have the funding for one.
314
00:15:39,337 --> 00:15:44,177
So I actually began my career,
my first step in my career as an
315
00:15:44,187 --> 00:15:47,247
admin assistant with the office
because I loved it so much.
316
00:15:47,297 --> 00:15:49,997
And they were kind- we were under the
impression that, hey, like you don't have
317
00:15:49,997 --> 00:15:55,067
the analyst title, but they would assign
me projects, as other duties assigned.
318
00:15:55,067 --> 00:15:57,167
So I would still do work-ups-
Yeah … here and there.
319
00:15:57,467 --> 00:16:02,867
I would do the CJIS background checks for
new employees, assist with that stuff.
320
00:16:02,947 --> 00:16:05,167
And then they knew it
would be a short stint.
321
00:16:05,177 --> 00:16:08,047
They knew that I was very passionate
about investigative analysis.
322
00:16:08,447 --> 00:16:10,297
And so I got hired on there.
323
00:16:10,297 --> 00:16:12,097
And I didn't plan on leaving that quickly.
324
00:16:12,097 --> 00:16:15,717
I I did plan with, on staying with them
for longer and trying to see if they
325
00:16:15,717 --> 00:16:17,357
could create that analyst position.
326
00:16:17,827 --> 00:16:23,913
But then my internship supervisor, one of
my mentors, Cassidy Richardson, she had
327
00:16:23,913 --> 00:16:27,383
said, "Hey, we're going to tour," because
she had a new set of interns at that
328
00:16:27,383 --> 00:16:31,563
time, "We're going to take a tour of the
Rocky Mountain Information Network, RMIN."
329
00:16:31,763 --> 00:16:36,193
And I was like, "What's that?" And
so she explained what it was and how
330
00:16:36,193 --> 00:16:39,083
the AG's office has a partnership,
with us now that I'm here.
331
00:16:39,373 --> 00:16:43,583
And she… That same day, ironically, a
job posting for an intelligence research
332
00:16:43,593 --> 00:16:47,153
analyst came out, and she immediately
sent it to me and was like, "Oh my
333
00:16:47,153 --> 00:16:48,683
gosh, this would be perfect for you."
334
00:16:48,993 --> 00:16:54,243
I look at it, my eyes are beaming- … at
this posting, and it was just perfect.
335
00:16:54,253 --> 00:16:57,313
It was a open source
intelligence based position.
336
00:16:57,323 --> 00:17:00,273
Doing the same things that I was
doing, social media scraping, workups.
337
00:17:00,283 --> 00:17:01,023
It was perfect.
338
00:17:01,503 --> 00:17:03,413
And all you really needed
for it was a degree.
339
00:17:03,573 --> 00:17:08,933
And so I believe it was that next
week I applied for it, and then
340
00:17:09,293 --> 00:17:11,853
got the job, started in that unit.
341
00:17:11,883 --> 00:17:14,043
So that's our intelligence research unit.
342
00:17:14,123 --> 00:17:17,123
So again, that's all the open
source stuff, facial recognition-
343
00:17:17,183 --> 00:17:20,953
… pulling driver's licenses,
tax records, things like that.
344
00:17:21,443 --> 00:17:26,233
And I was there for six months, and then
we have our analytical unit, which has…
345
00:17:26,403 --> 00:17:30,983
We have our analytical section which has
multiple units in it, and I promoted up
346
00:17:31,033 --> 00:17:35,503
after the six months to my current role,
which is a criminal intelligence analyst.
347
00:17:35,623 --> 00:17:39,363
And yeah, I've been here since in
this position, and it's different
348
00:17:39,363 --> 00:17:42,783
in the nature that it's very
much keyboard detective work.
349
00:17:42,783 --> 00:17:46,913
So it's gonna be analyzing the call
detail records and mapping them.
350
00:17:46,983 --> 00:17:50,393
It's- we go through device
extraction report returns, so I get
351
00:17:50,393 --> 00:17:53,163
to look at everyone's, what's in
everyone's phones, and I love that.
352
00:17:53,263 --> 00:17:55,763
I get to do the social media
warrant returns, so you know,
353
00:17:55,773 --> 00:17:59,163
Meta, when we get the data back,
or Snapchat, things like that.
354
00:17:59,313 --> 00:18:01,403
And so that's where I'm
currently at, and I love it.
355
00:18:01,523 --> 00:18:07,103
And I wish I knew at the start of my
career that, hey, you don't have to go
356
00:18:07,103 --> 00:18:11,993
sworn, and that there are these civilian
roles that can really assist in the
357
00:18:11,993 --> 00:18:16,593
pursuit of justice, because I would've
worked on getting certifications and
358
00:18:16,603 --> 00:18:18,613
more specific trainings earlier on.
359
00:18:18,793 --> 00:18:21,493
But nevertheless, I'm here and I love it.
360
00:18:21,603 --> 00:18:21,913
Yeah.
361
00:18:22,313 --> 00:18:28,567
So with this Rock- Rocky Mountain
Information Network- Are you, do
362
00:18:28,567 --> 00:18:34,837
you act- are you actually employed
by them, or are you employed by a
363
00:18:34,837 --> 00:18:39,137
state or federal agency or… who's
actually writing your paychecks?
364
00:18:39,297 --> 00:18:39,647
I know.
365
00:18:39,667 --> 00:18:41,107
It's extremely confusing.
366
00:18:41,207 --> 00:18:46,317
So RIMIN is one of the six of the
Regional Information Sharing Systems which
367
00:18:46,317 --> 00:18:48,707
was created all the way back in 1974.
368
00:18:48,707 --> 00:18:54,127
It was, like, the first national kind
of database to exchange intelligence,
369
00:18:54,127 --> 00:18:57,887
and it really focused on helping state,
local, and federal law enforcement
370
00:18:57,887 --> 00:19:03,167
agencies identify, target, and remove
criminal activity that crossed juris-
371
00:19:03,257 --> 00:19:05,247
jur- jurisdictional boundaries.
372
00:19:05,357 --> 00:19:10,387
And so there are six centers, RIMIN
is one of them, and RIS as a whole
373
00:19:10,427 --> 00:19:13,257
is federally funded by DOJ programs.
374
00:19:13,427 --> 00:19:13,867
Okay.
375
00:19:13,877 --> 00:19:16,477
So I am employed directly by RIMIN.
376
00:19:16,647 --> 00:19:17,387
Okay.
377
00:19:17,677 --> 00:19:18,747
Now, that's interesting.
378
00:19:19,077 --> 00:19:25,387
See, 'cause I kn- I, I obviously knew
of the RIS systems, and I knew of RIMIN.
379
00:19:25,617 --> 00:19:28,237
I've heard of all the different networks.
380
00:19:28,357 --> 00:19:33,917
I was under the impression, though,
that this was a fusion-type scenario
381
00:19:33,927 --> 00:19:40,243
that was bringing in different agencies
To fill all the different positions.
382
00:19:40,403 --> 00:19:43,543
It's probably been like that for a
while, but I didn't, I don't think
383
00:19:43,543 --> 00:19:48,913
I knew , there was actual employees
through the DOJ like you described.
384
00:19:49,213 --> 00:19:53,613
It, yeah, it's super confusing and
I wanna… It's almost like the
385
00:19:54,463 --> 00:19:58,253
OG national fusion center, even
though we're not a fusion center.
386
00:19:58,623 --> 00:20:04,293
But yeah, RIS is entirely funded by DOJ
programs, like the- … Bureau of Justice
387
00:20:04,293 --> 00:20:05,993
Assistance, and then there's another one.
388
00:20:06,453 --> 00:20:11,143
And we have to continue recei- or
going to Congress every year to receive
389
00:20:11,143 --> 00:20:14,963
our funding, 'cause again- federal,
federally funded grant program.
390
00:20:15,093 --> 00:20:17,343
But yes, we do have our own em- employees.
391
00:20:17,393 --> 00:20:19,643
We're not like, we don't have
anyone contracted and we're not
392
00:20:19,643 --> 00:20:21,343
contracted through anyone else.
393
00:20:21,433 --> 00:20:26,833
And yeah, it was really, RIS was the
first way nationally to de-conflict
394
00:20:26,843 --> 00:20:28,683
subjects and investigations.
395
00:20:28,683 --> 00:20:31,453
If you're working the same person in
Arizona and then all the way in New
396
00:20:31,453 --> 00:20:36,053
York, hey, RIS would say, "You guys
are looking into the same person.
397
00:20:36,063 --> 00:20:38,943
You might wanna collaborate." So that
was really- Yeah … the creation
398
00:20:38,943 --> 00:20:42,913
of RIS, and then it's developed
into so much more since then.
399
00:20:42,913 --> 00:20:46,563
Each center has a, a bunch of
different units that support with
400
00:20:46,563 --> 00:20:48,813
different aspects of the investigation.
401
00:20:48,823 --> 00:20:51,423
So yeah we're a little niche.
402
00:20:51,423 --> 00:20:52,823
They call us the secret squirrels.
403
00:20:52,993 --> 00:20:56,333
We try and stay low radar, or under
the radar as much as possible.
404
00:20:57,153 --> 00:20:57,553
Yeah.
405
00:20:57,623 --> 00:21:01,243
Yeah, 'cause I think, again,
I'm going back 20 years, right?
406
00:21:01,293 --> 00:21:06,323
I even, I remember using, I think
it was McLaughlin, I think is
407
00:21:06,343 --> 00:21:08,833
the one that I would have used.
408
00:21:09,033 --> 00:21:09,263
Yeah.
409
00:21:09,333 --> 00:21:14,183
And, at least back then, you would put
in your target information you would
410
00:21:14,183 --> 00:21:17,115
get a printout Sent to you, right?
411
00:21:17,675 --> 00:21:21,375
Sometimes 50-plus pages, some blank.
412
00:21:21,465 --> 00:21:27,125
But- Oh, man … , it was them running
your target through the various databases
413
00:21:27,295 --> 00:21:32,425
… again, letting you know if somebody else
in, in their system was also working that
414
00:21:32,425 --> 00:21:36,875
target to make sure that everybody gets
on the same page, like you described.
415
00:21:37,015 --> 00:21:37,575
But that-
416
00:21:37,575 --> 00:21:37,785
Absolutely
417
00:21:38,035 --> 00:21:41,655
…
at least in my head that's
exactly w- my experience.
418
00:21:41,685 --> 00:21:44,265
But at, as you mentioned
they're doing so much more now.
419
00:21:44,385 --> 00:21:44,715
Yep.
420
00:21:44,795 --> 00:21:49,425
It's really, and as far as technology
has developed, new programs come out,
421
00:21:49,585 --> 00:21:54,535
the increase of digital evidence now in
being such a large part of investigations.
422
00:21:54,585 --> 00:21:58,715
Oh, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna go out
on a limb here and say every crime at
423
00:21:58,715 --> 00:22:01,775
some point- … is gonna have some sort
or, every investigation is gonna have
424
00:22:01,895 --> 00:22:03,765
the digital evidence component of it.
425
00:22:03,965 --> 00:22:10,595
And so I think as, going from 1974 to
2026, I think they realized that, hey
426
00:22:10,595 --> 00:22:15,925
we, actually can employ analysts and,
we receive that funding to provide
427
00:22:15,935 --> 00:22:20,935
analytical support to the agencies that
don't have analysts, that don't have the,
428
00:22:21,005 --> 00:22:25,175
appropriate funding for an analyst, that
don't have the resources or the programs.
429
00:22:25,615 --> 00:22:30,111
So since then we've just
grown into s- So much more.
430
00:22:30,741 --> 00:22:33,031
All right, so here's the trivia question.
431
00:22:33,031 --> 00:22:35,811
What are the eight states
that make up REMMIM?
432
00:22:36,011 --> 00:22:36,551
All right.
433
00:22:36,561 --> 00:22:44,441
So we got Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado,
New Mexico, Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana.
434
00:22:44,661 --> 00:22:45,151
Nice.
435
00:22:45,151 --> 00:22:45,291
Nice.
436
00:22:45,291 --> 00:22:45,431
Nice.
437
00:22:45,431 --> 00:22:49,521
Now, I, my quick Google search,
'cause I didn't know the answer to
438
00:22:49,521 --> 00:22:54,391
that question, My qu- my quick Google
search actually says that it extends
439
00:22:54,401 --> 00:22:56,591
to services to parts of Canada.
440
00:22:56,781 --> 00:22:59,251
So I really don't know
a whole lot about that.
441
00:22:59,261 --> 00:22:59,281
Yeah.
442
00:22:59,291 --> 00:23:03,401
I think it's because if there is…
So we've also provided assistance to
443
00:23:03,401 --> 00:23:07,061
California and some- … one-off states
that are not a part of our region.
444
00:23:07,261 --> 00:23:11,361
I think if there's something exigent
in nature that maybe one center
445
00:23:11,361 --> 00:23:15,441
is better equipped to handle than
the other- they'll take it over.
446
00:23:15,811 --> 00:23:19,591
We're not really, RIS is here and REMMIM
is here to provide support any way
447
00:23:19,591 --> 00:23:22,091
that we can, so we very rarely say no.
448
00:23:22,101 --> 00:23:24,521
I don't know exactly what our support was.
449
00:23:24,551 --> 00:23:26,421
I don't know if it was,
like, deconfliction-
450
00:23:26,611 --> 00:23:29,081
…
With maybe some investigation
that was happening there.
451
00:23:29,211 --> 00:23:29,381
Okay
452
00:23:29,781 --> 00:23:31,701
…
I know that was, I know that
was a while ago, so I don't know
453
00:23:31,701 --> 00:23:34,191
exactly what happened with Canada.
454
00:23:34,661 --> 00:23:38,471
But yes- … if there's something exigent
or, it's outside of our jur- or, yeah,
455
00:23:38,521 --> 00:23:43,641
our jurisdiction or AOR, another center
will be able to, may be able to assist.
456
00:23:43,801 --> 00:23:44,151
Okay.
457
00:23:44,281 --> 00:23:48,611
And then so how does cases get on
your desk or get assigned to you,
458
00:23:48,811 --> 00:23:53,681
given that there's eight, the cases
can come from eight different states?
459
00:23:53,831 --> 00:23:54,161
Yeah.
460
00:23:54,161 --> 00:23:57,371
So we have our case management
system, so it's like any other
461
00:23:57,371 --> 00:23:59,451
agency's case management system.
462
00:23:59,821 --> 00:24:01,541
But there is a portal.
463
00:24:01,661 --> 00:24:03,931
So everyone has to have
a RIS account, right?
464
00:24:04,281 --> 00:24:05,051
To be a member.
465
00:24:05,191 --> 00:24:08,471
And then once you have your RIS
account, you can go into our Lima
466
00:24:08,481 --> 00:24:13,931
portal, that's our case management
system, and then you basically request
467
00:24:13,931 --> 00:24:15,601
that you get a, an account with Lima.
468
00:24:15,681 --> 00:24:18,481
We'll approve that basically
right off the bat, and then
469
00:24:18,501 --> 00:24:19,901
there's a form that you fill out.
470
00:24:20,031 --> 00:24:22,931
It's investigation type, when it occurred.
471
00:24:23,081 --> 00:24:24,621
We ask for a case summary.
472
00:24:24,781 --> 00:24:28,351
We ask for the type of support
so that the supervisors know
473
00:24:28,351 --> 00:24:30,301
which unit to assign the case to.
474
00:24:30,301 --> 00:24:32,751
So if they're just looking,
"Hey, I had a homicide occur.
475
00:24:32,751 --> 00:24:36,381
We seized a device, and we need it
extracted, forensically extracted,"
476
00:24:37,091 --> 00:24:40,761
supervisor knows to send that
to the digital forensics unit.
477
00:24:40,971 --> 00:24:45,231
If it's, "Hey, we received search
warrant returns from Snapchat and
478
00:24:45,231 --> 00:24:48,521
Meta, and we don't know how to analyze
them," our supervisor would know, okay,
479
00:24:48,521 --> 00:24:50,511
that's gonna be criminal intel support.
480
00:24:50,681 --> 00:24:55,051
If it's a fraud or crypto case,
it'll go to that, respective unit.
481
00:24:55,111 --> 00:24:58,161
But yeah, it's just a form that you
fill out, and you put the suspect
482
00:24:58,161 --> 00:25:01,531
information, and you put the type
of evidence that you have and really
483
00:25:01,531 --> 00:25:02,671
what you need assistance with.
484
00:25:03,171 --> 00:25:08,631
Our supervisors will delegate it to the
appropriate unit, and we go from there.
485
00:25:08,631 --> 00:25:13,381
So then we'll get a, a nice lovely
printout of the case submittal, and
486
00:25:13,381 --> 00:25:17,501
then we will reach out to the case
agent that's, submitted the request,
487
00:25:17,501 --> 00:25:22,181
and then We have RIS files, which is, a
government cloud-based similar to Dropbox.
488
00:25:22,221 --> 00:25:28,855
Or they can ship us certified mail or
FedEx Something like that, and then we'll
489
00:25:28,855 --> 00:25:31,485
take it and we'll go from there, and then
we'll be in touch with the case agent.
490
00:25:31,485 --> 00:25:33,215
Really whatever support
they need, we'll do.
491
00:25:33,285 --> 00:25:41,255
Now, do you mostly get requests from the
more rural, smaller jurisdictions that
492
00:25:41,255 --> 00:25:46,945
might not have a lot of the, the bells
and whistles and data access and tools?
493
00:25:47,155 --> 00:25:51,905
A- as compared to cities usually
have the budgets to be able to
494
00:25:51,905 --> 00:25:53,365
purchase that kind of stuff.
495
00:25:53,385 --> 00:25:57,775
But some of these smaller, more
rural agencies probably I would
496
00:25:58,145 --> 00:26:02,935
imagine don't, and so that's where
RAMN can really be of assistance.
497
00:26:03,285 --> 00:26:06,265
You would think that- … and that's
also what I originally thought.
498
00:26:06,415 --> 00:26:09,865
One of our analysts did an assessment
and they actually found that
499
00:26:09,865 --> 00:26:11,555
our biggest user is Phoenix PD.
500
00:26:11,735 --> 00:26:12,315
Oh, okay.
501
00:26:12,505 --> 00:26:16,735
So we have a great partnership
with Phoenix PD. Arizona agencies
502
00:26:16,885 --> 00:26:20,025
use us the most probably just
because, we're headquartered here.
503
00:26:20,245 --> 00:26:24,835
But we do also get a, a really good
amount of those more rural agencies.
504
00:26:25,125 --> 00:26:29,865
A lot from Montana, a lot from
Idaho, rural areas of Colorado.
505
00:26:29,865 --> 00:26:31,735
Those very, very small agencies.
506
00:26:31,735 --> 00:26:35,295
We also… I would say
it pretty much evens out.
507
00:26:35,675 --> 00:26:40,535
But yeah, we w- we will see very big
agencies use us, and then w- we also
508
00:26:40,535 --> 00:26:42,215
get the very rural agencies that use us.
509
00:26:42,215 --> 00:26:44,935
So it's a good spread I would say of both.
510
00:26:45,115 --> 00:26:47,195
, Are you a part of a particular team?
511
00:26:47,235 --> 00:26:51,795
As you were talking about the flow of
cases and the types of cases that are
512
00:26:51,825 --> 00:26:54,375
coming in are you part of a certain team?
513
00:26:54,425 --> 00:26:58,715
Are you looking to investigate or
work on a certain type of case?
514
00:26:58,865 --> 00:26:59,205
Yeah.
515
00:26:59,205 --> 00:27:04,665
So under the… So our unit, overall
the umbrella is the analytical unit, and
516
00:27:04,665 --> 00:27:06,605
then within that there are smaller units.
517
00:27:06,615 --> 00:27:10,445
So we have our audio
and video forensics lab.
518
00:27:10,705 --> 00:27:12,605
We have our digital forensics lab.
519
00:27:12,755 --> 00:27:17,785
Then we have my unit, which is just
criminal intel, and then we also
520
00:27:17,785 --> 00:27:19,645
have our accounting fraud unit.
521
00:27:19,705 --> 00:27:22,095
So they're certified fraud examiners.
522
00:27:22,265 --> 00:27:25,025
And then our unit will do anything.
523
00:27:25,025 --> 00:27:30,705
So criminal intel will do anything from
homicide, robbery kidnapping, sex assault.
524
00:27:30,865 --> 00:27:37,135
I am very passionate about internet crimes
against children and s- sex offenses and
525
00:27:37,315 --> 00:27:39,115
h- human trafficking, sex trafficking.
526
00:27:39,175 --> 00:27:43,395
So that's typically my caseload because
that's just what a lot of my training is
527
00:27:43,395 --> 00:27:45,635
in and that's just where my passion lies.
528
00:27:45,635 --> 00:27:48,585
But, I've worked kidnapping cases.
529
00:27:48,705 --> 00:27:51,845
I've worked some homicides,
officer-involved shootings.
530
00:27:51,865 --> 00:27:56,829
So we all have a very well-rounded
scope- of the crimes or investigations
531
00:27:56,829 --> 00:28:00,099
that we've worked and assisted on, and
then eventually we'll find our niche.
532
00:28:00,149 --> 00:28:04,059
And I've always known that internet
crimes against children and sex
533
00:28:04,059 --> 00:28:06,959
offenses and anything under that
nature was gonna be right up my alley.
534
00:28:07,159 --> 00:28:10,369
But yeah, so then the su- our supervisor
does a great job of saying, "Hey, I know
535
00:28:10,699 --> 00:28:15,509
this analyst is r- really good at this
type of analysis, and this is, a crime
536
00:28:15,509 --> 00:28:18,829
that they're passionate about," or,
they've worked plenty of these before.
537
00:28:18,839 --> 00:28:22,159
So we streamline that to be
more efficient in our analysis.
538
00:28:22,159 --> 00:28:25,465
But Yeah, we can… there
isn't anything we haven't seen.
539
00:28:25,465 --> 00:28:27,155
I've worked some cold cases.
540
00:28:27,375 --> 00:28:30,595
So yeah, we see e- we see- we've
seen just about everything.
541
00:28:31,135 --> 00:28:31,815
All right.
542
00:28:31,975 --> 00:28:36,135
And then how about some misnomers
about the RIS systems, right?
543
00:28:36,705 --> 00:28:39,345
I wanna make sure that we
paint them in the right light
544
00:28:39,375 --> 00:28:43,945
.
And as I p- said, I'm a little outdated,
so I wanna make sure that we get
545
00:28:43,945 --> 00:28:45,625
what they are and what they are not.
546
00:28:45,775 --> 00:28:46,225
Yeah.
547
00:28:46,225 --> 00:28:50,845
First, a lot of people will associate
us or will confuse us with the HIDTAs,
548
00:28:50,855 --> 00:28:53,535
the High Intensity Drug Trafficking-
549
00:28:53,715 --> 00:28:54,115
Area
550
00:28:54,305 --> 00:28:55,065
…
Area, yes.
551
00:28:55,315 --> 00:28:59,795
So they will think that we're a part
of them or just e- entirely mix us up.
552
00:29:00,125 --> 00:29:03,695
… The difference is all of the RIS
centers are non-operational, so
553
00:29:03,695 --> 00:29:05,245
we cannot go out into the field.
554
00:29:05,355 --> 00:29:09,405
We've assisted with live events at
cou- for counter-terrorism and at-
555
00:29:09,455 --> 00:29:10,765
…
Providing intelligence support.
556
00:29:10,785 --> 00:29:14,775
I've done that with the Nevada
Counterterrorism Center, sitting there
557
00:29:14,775 --> 00:29:18,805
doing live intelligence, but we cannot
do anything, obviously, out in the field,
558
00:29:18,805 --> 00:29:20,375
so we need to be centralized somewhere.
559
00:29:20,425 --> 00:29:24,345
… And then, so that's one thing is
HIDTA obviously is operational.
560
00:29:24,345 --> 00:29:24,965
We are not.
561
00:29:25,045 --> 00:29:28,475
And then on that same notion, we
don't have any sworn personnel.
562
00:29:28,625 --> 00:29:29,325
So-
563
00:29:29,535 --> 00:29:29,915
Okay
564
00:29:30,265 --> 00:29:32,305
…
it's just analysts.
565
00:29:32,465 --> 00:29:33,135
Not just.
566
00:29:33,585 --> 00:29:38,205
We are comprised of only analysts, so
people will think, maybe someone can
567
00:29:38,205 --> 00:29:42,325
be sworn, but then also a part of or
work out of- rEMIN, but you can't.
568
00:29:42,365 --> 00:29:43,845
It's just, so I would
say those are the two.
569
00:29:43,855 --> 00:29:47,045
We're a civilian law
enforcement support agency.
570
00:29:47,695 --> 00:29:51,195
Now, does the other RIS
centers also behave that way?
571
00:29:51,355 --> 00:29:51,805
Yes.
572
00:29:51,855 --> 00:29:52,175
Yeah.
573
00:29:52,185 --> 00:29:52,215
Okay.
574
00:29:52,355 --> 00:29:56,055
As a part of our our grant that we
receive- … we are to be non-operational.
575
00:29:56,055 --> 00:29:57,605
We don't have any sworn personnel.
576
00:29:57,665 --> 00:30:00,285
And it's always been that
way and it'll never change.
577
00:30:00,295 --> 00:30:02,365
It'll… We're just
little secret squirrels.
578
00:30:02,365 --> 00:30:04,225
We try and remain- … on the down low.
579
00:30:04,435 --> 00:30:07,405
We're there when people need,
and then we keep it moving.
580
00:30:08,305 --> 00:30:08,625
Yeah.
581
00:30:08,675 --> 00:30:12,865
- If we had a before and after
this interview what I thought RIS
582
00:30:12,875 --> 00:30:14,755
were and then what you just- Yep
583
00:30:14,755 --> 00:30:19,425
told me, I would have learned a lot
there because again, , my view was more
584
00:30:19,425 --> 00:30:25,475
o- along the line of fusion centers,
where you had multi-jurisdictional
585
00:30:25,605 --> 00:30:28,425
representatives, lots of sworn, lots of-
586
00:30:28,705 --> 00:30:32,415
…
Agents mixed in with civilian
587
00:30:32,465 --> 00:30:34,605
…
Style cases going on.
588
00:30:34,615 --> 00:30:37,615
That was my vision that I was thinking of.
589
00:30:37,665 --> 00:30:39,145
Yeah, we're very, very niche.
590
00:30:39,145 --> 00:30:43,475
So when we… I'm very passionate too
about when we go out and we do site
591
00:30:43,485 --> 00:30:48,535
visits or briefings at agencies to explain
what we do and how we can assist them.
592
00:30:48,595 --> 00:30:50,765
Their eyes light up and they're
like, "We didn't know that
593
00:30:50,765 --> 00:30:52,125
you guys could do all this.
594
00:30:52,235 --> 00:30:55,705
We didn't know you existed." Especially
for some of the younger detectives.
595
00:30:55,715 --> 00:30:55,735
Yeah.
596
00:30:55,955 --> 00:31:00,785
And then they're just so intrigued
as to how you can be directly
597
00:31:00,785 --> 00:31:04,405
supporting investigations and
testify as expert witnesses.
598
00:31:04,535 --> 00:31:05,805
And we're not private.
599
00:31:05,865 --> 00:31:07,385
But we're not operational.
600
00:31:07,385 --> 00:31:08,685
We're not a fusion center.
601
00:31:08,705 --> 00:31:12,145
So it's very… I try and simplify
it as much as possible for them.
602
00:31:12,655 --> 00:31:13,025
Yeah.
603
00:31:13,485 --> 00:31:16,135
You need to have a marketing strategy.
604
00:31:16,175 --> 00:31:20,455
What you need to, what you need to do
is have a contest to see who can come up
605
00:31:20,505 --> 00:31:25,225
with the best marketing video between-
Oh, yeah … all the risk systems.
606
00:31:25,645 --> 00:31:30,165
And we have, yeah, we have teams that are,
or personnel that are dedicated to solely
607
00:31:30,165 --> 00:31:32,495
creating videos for educational purposes.
608
00:31:32,495 --> 00:31:36,425
And then those videos go out to
the respective, their states.
609
00:31:36,435 --> 00:31:38,595
And we have our law
enforcement coordinators.
610
00:31:38,605 --> 00:31:42,525
So we actually have a law enforcement
coordinator in each of our states.
611
00:31:42,765 --> 00:31:46,355
And they will go out and do briefings
and try and educate, Yeah … on our
612
00:31:46,355 --> 00:31:48,195
services and who we are and what we are.
613
00:31:48,205 --> 00:31:48,225
Yeah.
614
00:31:48,655 --> 00:31:51,495
But yeah, we-- I will say
our marketing is very good.
615
00:31:51,855 --> 00:31:52,115
We-
616
00:31:52,365 --> 00:31:52,385
Yeah
617
00:31:52,565 --> 00:31:53,655
…
we take that serious.
618
00:31:54,005 --> 00:31:54,315
Yeah.
619
00:31:54,385 --> 00:32:00,305
And I it's my-- I remember McLaughlin
got on my radar based on a training that
620
00:32:00,305 --> 00:32:04,085
I had- … probably with the Washington
Baltimore HIDTA, it's definitely
621
00:32:04,155 --> 00:32:07,815
s-something you pick up when you go to
some of these trainings and they talk
622
00:32:07,815 --> 00:32:13,405
about the different systems and networks
and databases and all the services
623
00:32:13,735 --> 00:32:15,845
that law enforcement has access to.
624
00:32:16,025 --> 00:32:16,745
Absolutely.
625
00:32:16,785 --> 00:32:17,005
Yep.
626
00:32:17,035 --> 00:32:21,065
A lot of it majority, although we
have great marketing, a lot of our-
627
00:32:21,075 --> 00:32:25,175
… requests from new people who haven't used
us before is actually by word of mouth.
628
00:32:25,185 --> 00:32:29,365
So I get it all the time where I'll
complete a product or an analysis for a
629
00:32:29,365 --> 00:32:33,395
detective and, a neighboring detective
will see, be like, "Hey, what's that?"
630
00:32:33,465 --> 00:32:36,015
"How did you get that analysis done?"
Or I, "Where did you get that product
631
00:32:36,025 --> 00:32:37,495
from?" And we get it all the time.
632
00:32:37,495 --> 00:32:39,665
We'll get calls, "Hey, how
do I sign up for you guys?
633
00:32:40,495 --> 00:32:44,055
What you did looks super cool, and I
need help on this case," or, "Can you
634
00:32:44,055 --> 00:32:47,275
assist with that?" So a lot of it,
yeah, is word of mouth, too, for sure.
635
00:32:52,905 --> 00:32:52,985
Hi everyone.
636
00:32:52,985 --> 00:32:54,795
My name's Zoe Chenyee-Hind.
637
00:32:54,805 --> 00:32:57,255
I'm a senior intelligence
analyst from Australia.
638
00:32:57,705 --> 00:33:02,095
My public service announcement is that
everyone needs to stop acting like it's
639
00:33:02,095 --> 00:33:06,505
their first day on planet Earth when
they're lining up for TSA at an airport.
640
00:33:06,815 --> 00:33:09,355
You know you've gotta take
stuff out of your bag.
641
00:33:09,565 --> 00:33:11,915
You know you probably have
to take your shoes off.
642
00:33:12,145 --> 00:33:15,955
Please stop acting surprised when the
man asks you to put your bag on the
643
00:33:15,965 --> 00:33:19,385
carryon, because the rest of us are
standing here trying to get to our
644
00:33:19,385 --> 00:33:22,375
flight, and it is incredibly frustrating.
645
00:33:22,735 --> 00:33:23,345
Thank you.
646
00:33:24,875 --> 00:33:25,245
Hi.
647
00:33:25,445 --> 00:33:30,505
I'm Svetlana Gubina, business analyst from
Oakland Police Department, and my advice,
648
00:33:31,315 --> 00:33:34,795
don't afraid to discover something new.
649
00:33:34,825 --> 00:33:41,875
Just try do some small steps, find the
people who can support you, and it will
650
00:33:41,875 --> 00:33:48,325
help you in the regular life, in your
future job, and you will be surprised
651
00:33:48,425 --> 00:33:51,015
how more doors will open to you.
652
00:33:52,465 --> 00:33:57,175
I'm Erica Logan, and my public service
announcement is if you are in the
653
00:33:57,175 --> 00:34:03,275
left lane and not passing anyone,
move over, 'cause you're holding
654
00:34:03,275 --> 00:34:04,935
up progress for the rest of us
655
00:34:10,450 --> 00:34:13,730
this leads us to your
other analyst badge story.
656
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,390
And so this is just recently ha- occurred.
657
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,800
It's a 2024 case dealing with child abuse.
658
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:21,430
Yes.
659
00:34:21,490 --> 00:34:24,670
Like I mentioned earlier, I typically--
the majority of my caseload is
660
00:34:24,670 --> 00:34:26,080
gonna be crimes against children.
661
00:34:26,430 --> 00:34:30,880
And the crimes itself took place in 2024.
662
00:34:30,890 --> 00:34:35,450
We received the request in 2025 from,
One of the county attorney's offices
663
00:34:35,450 --> 00:34:41,870
here in Arizona, and basically there was
a mother and their partner, biological
664
00:34:41,870 --> 00:34:45,450
mother and their partner who was not
the biological parent of the child.
665
00:34:45,490 --> 00:34:48,650
And- … the child had been brought
into the hospital with some pretty
666
00:34:48,650 --> 00:34:54,020
severe injuries, and obviously
nurses are, mandatory reporters.
667
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:55,460
They called law enforcement.
668
00:34:55,470 --> 00:34:57,790
Law enforcement came out,
began the investigation.
669
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,330
CPS came out, Child Protective Services.
670
00:35:00,820 --> 00:35:06,290
That kicked off the investigation, and
then eventually the mayor c- or county
671
00:35:06,290 --> 00:35:13,520
attorney's office got it, and the case
agent submitted their request and sent
672
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:19,510
me a device extraction report for the
biological mother and said, "Can you
673
00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:23,450
conduct a thorough analysis of everything,
within the timeframe of interest for
674
00:35:23,450 --> 00:35:29,170
this device to see, image- any images
of the child with injuries, p- potential
675
00:35:29,170 --> 00:35:34,050
injuries, any search history relevant
to any symptoms or physical injuries
676
00:35:34,050 --> 00:35:38,980
to the child, any relevant text message
or communication between, referencing
677
00:35:38,980 --> 00:35:42,550
the child with any of the family or
with her romantic partner at the time?"
678
00:35:42,740 --> 00:35:47,680
So I did a thorough analysis, and the
case agent had said, "What you find will
679
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:53,380
directly assist us in either charging
both the, the mother and the partner or
680
00:35:53,380 --> 00:35:56,270
just the partner," because they suspected-
… that it was the partner conducting
681
00:35:56,270 --> 00:35:57,760
the physical abuse against the child.
682
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,410
And then also what charges
were appropriate to file.
683
00:36:01,430 --> 00:36:04,970
So I did my analysis, gave them back
my products, which again included,
684
00:36:05,310 --> 00:36:10,030
potential injuries on the child, text
messages referencing injuries and falls,
685
00:36:10,030 --> 00:36:14,060
and incidences with the, involving
the child that could lead to injuries.
686
00:36:14,380 --> 00:36:16,050
Also, some search histories.
687
00:36:16,060 --> 00:36:18,390
"Why does my child have a
soft spot on their head?
688
00:36:18,740 --> 00:36:21,770
What happens when a child
hits their head super hard?
689
00:36:22,090 --> 00:36:26,320
Should I let them fall asleep?" Things
to that nature. Provided that to the
690
00:36:26,330 --> 00:36:30,960
case agent, and then he actually came
back almost a year later and said, thank
691
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,280
you to your analysis. We actually filed
four felony counts of child abuse on the
692
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,020
romantic partner," and they were able,
to deem that the biological mother…
693
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,080
They didn't need to file any charges
against the biological mother.
694
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,960
So that to me is very rewarding
in a sense because usually we'll
695
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,030
get case requests, After charges
are already filed or to assist in,
696
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,340
Yeah … the prosecution process and
hopefully lead them to a plea deal.
697
00:36:53,530 --> 00:36:58,020
So this was very rewarding in the
fact that they said they didn't know
698
00:36:58,260 --> 00:37:02,490
what charges were appropriate, and
through my analysis and what I located
699
00:37:02,490 --> 00:37:06,420
and displayed, they were able to file
what they felt was appropriate and who
700
00:37:06,420 --> 00:37:08,120
they felt it was appropriate against.
701
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,690
And so that was very
rewarding and stuff like that.
702
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,530
These cases can be very difficult.
703
00:37:13,530 --> 00:37:15,780
You're looking at some heinous material.
704
00:37:15,790 --> 00:37:17,520
It really takes a toll on you mentally.
705
00:37:17,690 --> 00:37:22,270
And so to hear that the work that you
did resulted directly in the pursuit of
706
00:37:22,270 --> 00:37:25,000
justice is just, I'll never get over it.
707
00:37:25,310 --> 00:37:26,400
It's the best feeling in the world.
708
00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:26,990
Yeah.
709
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:34,160
So in this particular case, , the phones
that you were analyzing, Was it the phones
710
00:37:34,170 --> 00:37:36,370
for the mother or the partner or both?
711
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,000
It was just the cellular device
for the biological mother.
712
00:37:40,140 --> 00:37:40,780
Okay.
713
00:37:40,980 --> 00:37:44,460
But then I thought… So but then when
there was evidence on there that you
714
00:37:44,500 --> 00:37:49,200
returned to the investigator, so I'm
having trouble understanding why they
715
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,580
didn't charge the mother with anything
given that you found some evidence.
716
00:37:53,980 --> 00:37:56,780
, Throughout the investigation,
they were inconsistent
717
00:37:56,790 --> 00:37:58,160
statements in their interviews.
718
00:37:58,170 --> 00:38:02,010
The mom seemed to not be aware of
certain stories that the partner,
719
00:38:02,090 --> 00:38:05,780
that the investigators believe the
partner was making up to justify the
720
00:38:05,780 --> 00:38:07,470
injuries, such as- … certain falls.
721
00:38:08,670 --> 00:38:10,660
Things like that the
mother w- wasn't aware of.
722
00:38:10,660 --> 00:38:13,100
And she's like- … "I really don't
know how she got these injuries."
723
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,120
And her partner would be like I told
her that this fall happened," or,
724
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,480
"She was there to witness it." And
the mother didn't indicate that.
725
00:38:19,570 --> 00:38:24,350
And so I don't know who did the
analysis on the partner's phone.
726
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:27,580
I'm not sure if the case agent did it
and didn't really see anything in it,
727
00:38:27,620 --> 00:38:30,580
and so they were- "Okay, maybe just
analyze the biological mother's device,"
728
00:38:30,580 --> 00:38:35,710
because they wanted to see, A, was the
biological mother potentially aware of
729
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:37,620
the abuse- … and these incidences?
730
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:42,620
Or, was she truly unaware and the
partner was trying to justify away
731
00:38:42,620 --> 00:38:45,680
the injuries and the incidences
or over explain certain things?
732
00:38:45,690 --> 00:38:50,460
Also, to prove that the partner was
the primary, not primary caretaker,
733
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,580
but the mom, the biological
mom was away at work a lot.
734
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:53,810
Oh.
735
00:38:53,820 --> 00:38:57,990
So the partner spent the majority of the
time with the child, and so it was to
736
00:38:57,990 --> 00:39:03,320
also analyze what was the mother told, how
much did she know, things to that nature.
737
00:39:03,350 --> 00:39:08,180
And so- I guess what was found to them
they determined it's not appropriate to
738
00:39:08,180 --> 00:39:11,620
place charges on the biological mother,
but we have enough to place- I see
739
00:39:11,630 --> 00:39:13,620
… four felony counts against the partner.
740
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,930
She was the primary, she was the person
that the victim was primarily with.
741
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:17,750
I th- okay.
742
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:19,520
N- I think I'm, now I'm on board.
743
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,480
I s- I think without obviously
getting into much more detail than
744
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,620
that- … I think I understand 'cause
I it's seems like e- the w- for the
745
00:39:26,620 --> 00:39:31,040
mother's phone, if she was Googling
something, it was based on like a fall-
746
00:39:31,180 --> 00:39:31,710
Correct
747
00:39:31,710 --> 00:39:36,670
…
kind of situation, not "Oh, how do I
cover up my partner abusing my kid?"
748
00:39:36,689 --> 00:39:37,449
Type of thing.
749
00:39:37,649 --> 00:39:37,779
And
750
00:39:37,929 --> 00:39:40,689
I'm gonna assume when they looked, if
they did look through the partner's phone,
751
00:39:40,689 --> 00:39:42,279
I'm assuming they did, I didn't ask.
752
00:39:42,329 --> 00:39:45,409
Yeah … but I'm, they're probably
likely, if you're physically abusing a
753
00:39:45,409 --> 00:39:49,499
child, s- it's very low likelihood that
you're going to document any of it.
754
00:39:49,709 --> 00:39:49,939
Yeah.
755
00:39:49,999 --> 00:39:51,919
So I doubt she really had
anything on her device.
756
00:39:51,929 --> 00:39:54,659
So they were like, "If there's gonna
be… if we're gonna find reasons why
757
00:39:54,659 --> 00:39:58,639
there's inconsistencies in their stories,
it would probably be on the, biological
758
00:39:58,639 --> 00:40:00,109
mother's phone," is what I would assume.
759
00:40:00,259 --> 00:40:00,629
Yeah.
760
00:40:00,889 --> 00:40:01,149
Yeah.
761
00:40:01,149 --> 00:40:03,099
Do you know how the case e- finished?
762
00:40:03,771 --> 00:40:06,621
So I actually just found out not that
long ago that, I think it was, what,
763
00:40:06,641 --> 00:40:10,041
two months ago now, that the- … four
felony counts of child abuse were
764
00:40:10,041 --> 00:40:11,701
filed against- … the partner.
765
00:40:11,841 --> 00:40:14,981
I don't know where that's going yet.
766
00:40:14,991 --> 00:40:15,011
Yeah.
767
00:40:15,061 --> 00:40:17,631
I- last I checked, they didn't
even have legal counsel yet.
768
00:40:17,691 --> 00:40:20,761
So fingers crossed it
results in a plea deal.
769
00:40:20,911 --> 00:40:22,401
So we'll see the outcome on that.
770
00:40:22,411 --> 00:40:25,731
But I say that as my badge
story, as in the fact that they
771
00:40:25,731 --> 00:40:27,861
were able to press charges-
772
00:40:28,121 --> 00:40:31,131
…
After my analysis is
just the best thing ever.
773
00:40:31,631 --> 00:40:32,051
Yeah.
774
00:40:32,511 --> 00:40:37,871
No, I, and you bring up a good
point because y- I think in this
775
00:40:37,901 --> 00:40:42,671
position that you're in, you're
given certain amount of information.
776
00:40:42,831 --> 00:40:45,151
Most of the time it's
going to be need to know.
777
00:40:45,191 --> 00:40:49,041
You're just- Correct … you're just
gonna know , the little piece of the
778
00:40:49,041 --> 00:40:51,331
pie that you're working on, right?
779
00:40:51,451 --> 00:40:51,461
Absolutely.
780
00:40:51,461 --> 00:40:53,091
You do it to the best of your ability.
781
00:40:53,251 --> 00:40:54,751
You send it back out.
782
00:40:54,981 --> 00:40:58,371
If there's back and forth
with the requester, obviously
783
00:40:58,591 --> 00:41:00,071
good customer service there.
784
00:41:00,081 --> 00:41:03,501
You make sure that the, the, that
the requester's taken care of.
785
00:41:03,591 --> 00:41:08,681
But with that you don't know much
about anything else in terms of the
786
00:41:08,681 --> 00:41:13,711
entire investigation, what happened
before, all the different details.
787
00:41:14,117 --> 00:41:15,227
And certainly how it e- ends up.
788
00:41:16,247 --> 00:41:23,397
So it can feel a little bit incomplete,
and I can understand how that feeling of
789
00:41:23,397 --> 00:41:27,837
knowing that your work made a difference
in this case was very rewarding.
790
00:41:27,957 --> 00:41:28,697
Absolutely.
791
00:41:28,707 --> 00:41:32,317
And ironically enough, so we,
again, like you said, need to know.
792
00:41:32,347 --> 00:41:33,947
They'll tell us what we need to know.
793
00:41:33,947 --> 00:41:38,057
Sometimes they will- … especially for
big cases, they will omit information
794
00:41:38,157 --> 00:41:42,127
as to not steer our analysis in any
type of way- … if that makes sense.
795
00:41:42,157 --> 00:41:45,067
And so- Yeah … they wanna see
if you come up with the same
796
00:41:45,067 --> 00:41:46,567
conclusion that they're seeing.
797
00:41:46,897 --> 00:41:50,357
And so that's really where we're
like, we- you give us what you feel is
798
00:41:50,357 --> 00:41:53,077
appropriate and- … we'll go from there.
799
00:41:53,077 --> 00:41:56,067
Now, sometimes they don't give us the,
sometimes they'll forget to give us the
800
00:41:56,077 --> 00:41:57,437
actual date and time of the incident.
801
00:41:57,437 --> 00:42:00,117
I'm like, "Hey, I do need a little
bit more information." Yeah.
802
00:42:00,377 --> 00:42:03,397
But otherwise, it's really what they're
willing to give us, unless it's something
803
00:42:03,407 --> 00:42:05,177
pertinent like, "Hey, I'm noticing this."
804
00:42:05,187 --> 00:42:06,437
Do they live in this area?
805
00:42:06,477 --> 00:42:09,127
'Cause sometimes they won't give us their
address, but it's hey, if they're mapping
806
00:42:09,127 --> 00:42:10,797
around this area, do they live here?
807
00:42:10,807 --> 00:42:13,177
Or is there- … something else
here that might be of interest?
808
00:42:13,187 --> 00:42:15,477
So- … it's, but it's been very cool.
809
00:42:15,477 --> 00:42:18,687
There's been analysts that were given
basically no information on a case, and
810
00:42:18,687 --> 00:42:22,317
they'll come up with the analysis, and
the detectives were like, "We purposely
811
00:42:22,317 --> 00:42:26,197
didn't give you a lot of information to
see if you would come up with what we c-
812
00:42:26,197 --> 00:42:28,477
came up with," and it was almost spot on.
813
00:42:28,627 --> 00:42:28,897
Nice.
814
00:42:28,957 --> 00:42:31,097
And so they were v-
very impressed by that.
815
00:42:31,237 --> 00:42:31,597
Nice.
816
00:42:31,737 --> 00:42:36,387
And do you normally work during the
day, or is it rotating shifts, or
817
00:42:36,917 --> 00:42:38,967
as needed after hours type of thing?
818
00:42:39,137 --> 00:42:42,717
REMIN opens up at 6:00 AM, and
then we close- … every day
819
00:42:43,017 --> 00:42:45,207
Monday through Friday at 5:00 PM.
820
00:42:45,207 --> 00:42:45,357
Okay.
821
00:42:45,407 --> 00:42:46,887
We don't work weekends.
822
00:42:46,957 --> 00:42:50,427
There's been very rare things
that have happened- … that may
823
00:42:50,427 --> 00:42:53,027
need that, but that would be-
have to be, like, highly exigent,
824
00:42:53,147 --> 00:42:53,967
…
Circumstances.
825
00:42:53,967 --> 00:42:58,437
So typically Monday through
Friday, 6:00 AM to 5:00 PM.
826
00:42:58,767 --> 00:43:01,727
And typically the case agents that we're
working with, they- they're detectives
827
00:43:01,727 --> 00:43:04,967
or have been detectives for a long time,
so they're, that's typically they're
828
00:43:05,017 --> 00:43:06,657
working in the office during days.
829
00:43:06,717 --> 00:43:08,117
So it pans out.
830
00:43:08,327 --> 00:43:12,457
But yeah, the only time that, we work
on if we support, with the intelligence
831
00:43:12,457 --> 00:43:16,135
for counter-terrorism with a special
event, Super Bowl Do the Grand
832
00:43:16,135 --> 00:43:17,715
Prix, things like that we've done.
833
00:43:17,785 --> 00:43:20,255
Obviously those events
typically go over the weekend.
834
00:43:20,735 --> 00:43:23,625
But yeah, otherwise just
standard basically office hours.
835
00:43:24,755 --> 00:43:26,825
Seems like everybody has a Grand Prix.
836
00:43:27,105 --> 00:43:27,235
Yes.
837
00:43:27,235 --> 00:43:31,755
And it amazes me because it seems like
they have to like totally reconfigure
838
00:43:31,785 --> 00:43:35,185
the whole city for that one weekend.
839
00:43:35,855 --> 00:43:36,615
Oh my gosh.
840
00:43:36,625 --> 00:43:40,805
The track when we were helping
out in Vegas, the way that they
841
00:43:40,965 --> 00:43:43,255
basically tore up the strip to- Yeah
842
00:43:43,255 --> 00:43:45,755
put that track was just absolutely insane.
843
00:43:45,765 --> 00:43:48,315
Locals were not happy
about it in the least.
844
00:43:48,995 --> 00:43:51,195
But yeah, it was… it's a lot of chaos.
845
00:43:51,435 --> 00:43:54,185
…
But they're very fun
events to work, so yeah.
846
00:43:54,315 --> 00:43:54,585
Yeah.
847
00:43:54,705 --> 00:43:57,685
Does it seem… That g- that gets
into more like security, right?
848
00:43:57,905 --> 00:44:02,635
'Cause that's dealing with live
events and, you know- Right
849
00:44:02,635 --> 00:44:06,635
g- a lot of people are drunk and
in the wrong spot or in places that
850
00:44:06,645 --> 00:44:12,635
they shouldn't be or, and or people
trespassing or getting in into a lot of,
851
00:44:12,775 --> 00:44:14,285
a lot of- Yeah … fortunately, right?
852
00:44:14,285 --> 00:44:16,005
It's fortunately you're
not dealing with a-
853
00:44:16,025 --> 00:44:19,095
…
A different terrorist
attack every, every hour,
854
00:44:19,155 --> 00:44:23,461
the more chill and relaxed our work
is- For those events, the better.
855
00:44:23,471 --> 00:44:23,491
Yeah.
856
00:44:23,501 --> 00:44:29,321
That means nothing is extreme is going on,
which is s- so far has been great and the-
857
00:44:29,431 --> 00:44:32,861
…
The proactive intelligence has
been really- Yeah … really
858
00:44:32,861 --> 00:44:34,231
beneficial for those events.
859
00:44:34,361 --> 00:44:34,711
Yeah.
860
00:44:34,821 --> 00:44:39,231
And it's a… And that's definitely,
I c- I can imagine being exciting
861
00:44:39,231 --> 00:44:44,671
to, to work one of th- those events
and just being part of the process.
862
00:44:44,801 --> 00:44:45,111
Yeah.
863
00:44:45,111 --> 00:44:49,181
We're housed up, next to their, the f-
the counter-terrorism analyst, housed
864
00:44:49,211 --> 00:44:53,064
next to the FBI, HSI- … DHS DEA.
865
00:44:53,074 --> 00:44:55,134
We're all just talking and
working together, so that's
866
00:44:55,134 --> 00:44:56,594
awesome, the collaboration.
867
00:44:56,744 --> 00:45:00,274
REMEN collaborates really well with
other agencies, local, state, federal.
868
00:45:00,554 --> 00:45:03,334
So we have really great
partnerships and we just love…
869
00:45:03,444 --> 00:45:07,314
a couple weekends ago, the Apache
Junction PD brought me in for
870
00:45:07,534 --> 00:45:09,114
a child predator operation.
871
00:45:09,154 --> 00:45:11,844
So we were doing live intelligence
and doing workups on, people
872
00:45:11,844 --> 00:45:14,354
that were potentially coming to
the church or the parks to meet
873
00:45:14,354 --> 00:45:16,454
up with the decoys, the kids.
874
00:45:16,574 --> 00:45:19,474
And so yeah, we just we have our
hands in a lot of different pots,
875
00:45:19,504 --> 00:45:20,774
and we work great with everyone.
876
00:45:20,904 --> 00:45:21,074
All right.
877
00:45:21,074 --> 00:45:22,184
Very good, Vanessa.
878
00:45:22,284 --> 00:45:25,764
For the listeners, we will
put links in the show notes
879
00:45:25,874 --> 00:45:29,414
for REMEN and for the RISCs.
880
00:45:29,474 --> 00:45:33,954
That is definitely something if
you are unaware of all the services
881
00:45:33,964 --> 00:45:40,254
that the RISC centers can offer,
highly recommend looking into that.
882
00:45:40,254 --> 00:45:44,544
So we will put links for
additional information on all
883
00:45:44,584 --> 00:45:45,724
this that we talked about.
884
00:45:46,194 --> 00:45:46,714
Okay.
885
00:45:46,764 --> 00:45:49,594
Let's move on then, Vanessa.
886
00:45:49,684 --> 00:45:54,244
One of the topics that we wanna talk about
today is types of analyses, I think this
887
00:45:54,254 --> 00:46:02,084
is appropriate 'cause I just had on the
podcast Dr. Jessica Herbert, and she did
888
00:46:02,374 --> 00:46:08,774
a analysis on, 800 different job postings-
889
00:46:09,064 --> 00:46:09,374
Oof
890
00:46:09,374 --> 00:46:12,844
that she deemed, Law
enforcement analysis type.
891
00:46:12,904 --> 00:46:17,024
All the different titles that
are out there that are describing
892
00:46:17,024 --> 00:46:18,854
law enforcement analysis.
893
00:46:19,054 --> 00:46:19,384
Yep.
894
00:46:19,394 --> 00:46:24,614
Dealing with now real-time crime
center analysis and open source
895
00:46:24,716 --> 00:46:28,316
obviously intel, crime, investigative.
896
00:46:28,416 --> 00:46:28,756
Yep.
897
00:46:28,786 --> 00:46:32,836
So lots of different varieties,
lots of different job titles
898
00:46:32,896 --> 00:46:33,396
.
Yes.
899
00:46:33,576 --> 00:46:38,726
And we just described for
you, you have been more on the
900
00:46:38,736 --> 00:46:41,496
investigative side this, whole time.
901
00:46:41,536 --> 00:46:44,046
But- Yes … wanted to get
your perspective on all these
902
00:46:44,076 --> 00:46:45,776
different types of analyses.
903
00:46:45,936 --> 00:46:49,636
So that's another topic that I love
to discuss, especially with sworn
904
00:46:49,666 --> 00:46:54,016
personnel is the differences in the
types of an analysts that there are.
905
00:46:54,166 --> 00:46:58,916
So I know people see crime analyst as
typically someone that deals with crime
906
00:46:58,916 --> 00:47:05,036
statistics and, pulling RMS stats and
trying to see where the agency needs to
907
00:47:05,036 --> 00:47:09,826
best allocate their resources or doing
hotspot mapping for crime- … using
908
00:47:09,856 --> 00:47:17,230
ArcGIS and predictive analysis crime
series, which is all great work, and
909
00:47:17,230 --> 00:47:21,090
I give kudos to people that do that
work because man, those stats are
910
00:47:21,090 --> 00:47:22,840
intense and it's a lot to work with.
911
00:47:22,980 --> 00:47:27,580
And I think in the field, especially with
sworn personnel, they think that's the
912
00:47:27,580 --> 00:47:33,660
entirety of what the analytical field is,
and that's just so far off from the truth.
913
00:47:33,670 --> 00:47:38,330
There are obviously investigative
analysts, and you don't have to
914
00:47:38,330 --> 00:47:43,150
be a detective to learn how to
analyze call detail records or go
915
00:47:43,150 --> 00:47:47,910
through a device extraction report
or social media warrant returns.
916
00:47:48,230 --> 00:47:52,060
And once detectives or sworn personnel
learn that there are actually civilians
917
00:47:52,060 --> 00:47:56,170
and analysts that can do that and are
certified and, subject matter experts
918
00:47:56,190 --> 00:48:00,010
and have a high amount of training
in those t- those areas and digital
919
00:48:00,010 --> 00:48:01,850
evidence, there's just so much of it.
920
00:48:01,850 --> 00:48:05,360
They're, they get so excited and
they're like, "I had no idea that,
921
00:48:05,420 --> 00:48:09,240
analysts could do this sort of
investigative work and work alongside,"
922
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,450
when we first get an initial report
to getting the warrant returns.
923
00:48:13,450 --> 00:48:16,990
And some agencies, they'll even if,
when they're serving search warrants
924
00:48:16,990 --> 00:48:20,490
after the scene is cleared, they
will bring the analyst out there
925
00:48:20,490 --> 00:48:22,580
to assist with whatever they need.
926
00:48:22,670 --> 00:48:24,900
That, that's more rare, but-
927
00:48:25,010 --> 00:48:29,980
…
I think just for everyone in the
field to know that there's just,
928
00:48:29,980 --> 00:48:34,190
again, so many different types of
analysts, and I'm just so passionate
929
00:48:34,220 --> 00:48:36,180
about the investigative aspect of it.
930
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,150
If you asked me to do hotspot mapping, I
would look at you with the blank stare.
931
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:40,880
It's…
932
00:48:41,180 --> 00:48:43,810
And again, hats off to those analysts.
933
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:45,560
It, that's not an easy job.
934
00:48:45,570 --> 00:48:50,000
And yeah, I think that's just
really what I like to tell to
935
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:51,660
detectives when I'm talking to them.
936
00:48:51,660 --> 00:48:56,450
'Cause they'll be like, "Oh, okay, crime
analyst," or just things to that notion
937
00:48:56,450 --> 00:48:59,800
where I'm like, "No, we actually work on
pretty much the same things that you do
938
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:01,750
in the digi- digital evidence aspect."
939
00:49:02,030 --> 00:49:05,370
And yeah, again, their eyes just light
up and they get so excited because
940
00:49:05,370 --> 00:49:08,890
they've been needing that help, behind
the scenes, behind the computer.
941
00:49:09,210 --> 00:49:11,840
When they need to go out, boots
on the ground, they can't be
942
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,940
behind the computer analyzing
warrant returns at the same time.
943
00:49:15,490 --> 00:49:20,860
And so I think this field is, or, agencies
are leaning more t- onto those civilian
944
00:49:21,010 --> 00:49:25,270
analysts and investigative analysts
to really assist and boost forward or
945
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,960
push forward those investigations, also
look for those investigative leads.
946
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:33,070
We get it all the time here a
detective be like, "I I- I'm lost.
947
00:49:33,090 --> 00:49:34,690
I've exhausted all of my leads.
948
00:49:34,690 --> 00:49:37,130
I really don't know if
I'm missing something.
949
00:49:37,170 --> 00:49:41,420
Can you review this?" Fresh set of
eyes but with an analytical mindset
950
00:49:41,530 --> 00:49:45,440
to review those warrant returns and
provide recommendations, and I think
951
00:49:45,450 --> 00:49:48,500
that's where digital evidence is now.
952
00:49:48,530 --> 00:49:52,340
I believe that investigative
analysts are crucial to an agency.
953
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:55,960
Yeah I agree, and that's where
my head was going as well because
954
00:49:56,130 --> 00:49:58,580
again, I'm going back 20 years ago.
955
00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:04,130
I was in a similar role working
on a task force helping out
956
00:50:04,170 --> 00:50:08,200
with those data-type requests,
957
00:50:08,310 --> 00:50:13,030
…
Identifying , analyzing phone
toll records, putting in subpoenas
958
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:15,170
to gather all that information.
959
00:50:15,310 --> 00:50:18,680
- Taking targets and running them
through all the various databases.
960
00:50:18,980 --> 00:50:22,070
So I don't think necessarily that is new.
961
00:50:22,190 --> 00:50:27,700
I think what is new is the
amount of information- … that
962
00:50:27,790 --> 00:50:31,360
w- we have access to now.
963
00:50:31,630 --> 00:50:35,380
Especially when it just comes
to the cellphone, how much there
964
00:50:35,380 --> 00:50:37,990
is, because again, 20 years ago,
965
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:39,960
…
i'm only looking at phone tolls.
966
00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:44,590
I might be looking at text
messages, but that's about it.
967
00:50:44,590 --> 00:50:46,580
I'm not looking at browser history.
968
00:50:46,580 --> 00:50:53,470
I'm not looking at all the various
apps . And so the, the phone alone has
969
00:50:53,700 --> 00:51:01,032
just so much rich data in it- That it,
it takes some time to analyze all the-
970
00:51:01,172 --> 00:51:05,502
Hundreds and hundreds of
gigabytes and sometimes- Yeah
971
00:51:05,502 --> 00:51:07,832
yeah, it c- it could take a
couple hours to load an extraction
972
00:51:07,832 --> 00:51:09,292
report on your computer alone.
973
00:51:09,442 --> 00:51:09,752
Yeah.
974
00:51:10,132 --> 00:51:18,032
And then so then you have all these other
avenues as well, whether it's cameras or
975
00:51:18,052 --> 00:51:26,812
license plate readers or different social
media, different OSINT s- resources.
976
00:51:26,912 --> 00:51:31,192
Just there is just so
much more data out there-
977
00:51:31,282 --> 00:51:31,642
Right
978
00:51:31,672 --> 00:51:36,492
that it is really difficult- for
even - analysts alone, let alone an
979
00:51:36,492 --> 00:51:39,782
investigator or an agent to work alone.
980
00:51:39,852 --> 00:51:46,562
It does behoove us to be specialized to
be able to be really efficient in going
981
00:51:46,562 --> 00:51:48,492
through all these different sources.
982
00:51:48,592 --> 00:51:51,412
And to that notion too, cars
basically have their own
983
00:51:51,612 --> 00:51:54,102
tablets or iPhones in them now.
984
00:51:54,172 --> 00:51:56,662
Mini- So now you gotta map
those records if you're looking
985
00:51:56,662 --> 00:51:57,902
for where a vehicle went.
986
00:51:57,922 --> 00:52:01,662
I'm- Yeah … it's just, s- yeah,
like you said, so much data and
987
00:52:01,672 --> 00:52:04,432
for places that you wouldn't even
think that there would be data.
988
00:52:04,442 --> 00:52:04,572
Yeah
989
00:52:05,892 --> 00:52:07,302
No that's interesting.
990
00:52:07,302 --> 00:52:11,512
So there's definitely that
aspect of it, and I th- I think
991
00:52:11,512 --> 00:52:13,052
a lot of analysts enjoy that.
992
00:52:13,092 --> 00:52:15,362
That's the- Oh,
yeah … that's the phenomena.
993
00:52:15,362 --> 00:52:20,602
That's the same thing that makes all
those true crime podcasts so popular.
994
00:52:20,682 --> 00:52:25,342
People get- … all those keyboard
investigators that the civilians
995
00:52:25,342 --> 00:52:26,862
like to- Yeah … like to do.
996
00:52:26,882 --> 00:52:31,562
There's a whole, there's whole podcast and
documentaries on those types of things.
997
00:52:31,572 --> 00:52:36,192
So people really enjoy that
puzzle-solving aspect of it.
998
00:52:36,322 --> 00:52:41,132
And they do, but the, the, and to that
notion, the podcast listeners and when
999
00:52:41,132 --> 00:52:44,502
there are people in the comments when
there's active investigations going,
1000
00:52:44,582 --> 00:52:47,382
why is this taking so long?" Or, "Why
haven't they solved it yet?" And it's
1001
00:52:47,382 --> 00:52:51,242
like you really don't know anything
about digital evidence and how long
1002
00:52:51,242 --> 00:52:52,792
it takes to parse through that stuff.
1003
00:52:52,792 --> 00:52:55,462
I mean- … outside of the
physical evidence and processing
1004
00:52:55,472 --> 00:52:56,962
DNA and stuff like that.
1005
00:52:57,232 --> 00:53:03,242
… But yeah, they just, it's, I think people
very much have that CSI- Yeah … mindset.
1006
00:53:03,382 --> 00:53:06,232
You get something you on the
keyboard for 20 minutes and
1007
00:53:06,232 --> 00:53:07,772
then boop, I got what I needed.
1008
00:53:07,902 --> 00:53:10,112
So it's always interesting-
Yeah … kinda t- Yeah
1009
00:53:10,272 --> 00:53:11,142
explaining that.
1010
00:53:11,262 --> 00:53:15,922
And I don't know how it is with
you now, I, when you put in a
1011
00:53:15,922 --> 00:53:20,222
subpoena what the response rate
was for the subpoena, but oh man.
1012
00:53:20,232 --> 00:53:22,942
Again, I'm an old man-
Yeah … elder gonna tell you
1013
00:53:22,942 --> 00:53:24,342
what it was like 20 years ago.
1014
00:53:24,442 --> 00:53:25,792
Some of it was weeks.
1015
00:53:25,952 --> 00:53:26,152
Yep.
1016
00:53:26,152 --> 00:53:29,882
It was weeks before , you heard
back on , some of these subpoenas
1017
00:53:29,882 --> 00:53:33,522
'cause , the telephone companies
were not prepared at all.
1018
00:53:33,632 --> 00:53:37,962
They didn't have dedicated units-
… responding to subpoenas like they do now.
1019
00:53:38,272 --> 00:53:42,664
I think- Of course, now they've had
the decades to build the systems To
1020
00:53:42,664 --> 00:53:47,864
retrieve all that data and to push
it out so it has that… They've
1021
00:53:47,864 --> 00:53:50,324
had that time to make it easier.
1022
00:53:50,324 --> 00:53:51,634
But man, it was a struggle.
1023
00:53:51,734 --> 00:53:52,214
Yeah.
1024
00:53:52,294 --> 00:53:55,084
It's still just 'cause
they're so inundated.
1025
00:53:55,234 --> 00:53:57,974
And even though they have those units,
obviously now every single crime has some
1026
00:53:57,974 --> 00:53:59,724
sort of digital evidence aspect to it.
1027
00:54:00,114 --> 00:54:01,424
And they are just overwhelmed.
1028
00:54:01,434 --> 00:54:04,664
But I would say at least for
the carriers for the call detail
1029
00:54:04,664 --> 00:54:05,884
records, I'd say about a week.
1030
00:54:05,984 --> 00:54:06,364
Yeah.
1031
00:54:06,364 --> 00:54:06,581
That's not
1032
00:54:06,581 --> 00:54:06,689
bad.
1033
00:54:06,689 --> 00:54:07,968
So it's got- it's gotten better.
1034
00:54:07,998 --> 00:54:08,228
Yeah.
1035
00:54:08,228 --> 00:54:08,818
It's- That's not
1036
00:54:08,818 --> 00:54:09,128
bad
1037
00:54:09,128 --> 00:54:12,268
…
it's reasonable given how many
requests they get, I'm sure.
1038
00:54:12,818 --> 00:54:13,328
Yeah.
1039
00:54:13,458 --> 00:54:13,798
Yeah.
1040
00:54:13,968 --> 00:54:18,818
And it, it is interesting back to the
types of analysis because, I… It
1041
00:54:18,818 --> 00:54:23,848
is there's been a long debate on, in
the US talking about the difference
1042
00:54:23,848 --> 00:54:26,818
between intel analyst and crime analyst.
1043
00:54:26,818 --> 00:54:31,508
And why we spend so much time
differentiating between that and you
1044
00:54:31,508 --> 00:54:36,918
talk, you go overseas and you, to
me, to them, analysis is analysis.
1045
00:54:36,918 --> 00:54:38,858
You can do all kinds
of- … kinds of stuff.
1046
00:54:38,978 --> 00:54:44,048
I do think, you j- I do see though that
it's gonna become more specialized.
1047
00:54:44,348 --> 00:54:44,528
Oh,
1048
00:54:44,528 --> 00:54:44,608
yeah.
1049
00:54:44,608 --> 00:54:46,758
I think because of the amount of data.
1050
00:54:46,918 --> 00:54:51,416
It you're already seeing it
now where, there's People are
1051
00:54:51,416 --> 00:54:53,726
spending their whole time in OSINT
1052
00:54:53,836 --> 00:54:54,366
Oh, yeah
1053
00:54:54,646 --> 00:54:58,816
Whereas, twen- again, 20 years
ago they, there wasn't… You
1054
00:54:58,816 --> 00:55:00,296
did that kind of part-time or-
1055
00:55:00,696 --> 00:55:01,436
…
Supplemental.
1056
00:55:01,556 --> 00:55:07,206
But- … but now there's so much
data, so man- so much there to be
1057
00:55:07,206 --> 00:55:12,366
efficient at that i- the more data
there is, the more branches there's
1058
00:55:12,396 --> 00:55:17,746
going to be, and di- different
types of analysis are gonna develop.
1059
00:55:18,116 --> 00:55:18,866
Yeah, absolutely.
1060
00:55:18,866 --> 00:55:21,156
That's why Remon has all these
different units and different
1061
00:55:21,156 --> 00:55:23,076
analysts that have certifications.
1062
00:55:23,086 --> 00:55:26,786
Can I go and actually conduct the
physical extraction of a device?
1063
00:55:26,816 --> 00:55:30,596
No, we have our digital forensics unit and
they're- … digital forensics analysts.
1064
00:55:30,636 --> 00:55:34,986
And then, but then I can take the
report of the extraction and analyze
1065
00:55:35,006 --> 00:55:40,776
it, whereas- our forensic fraud unit,
a fr- fraud accounting unit, I… If
1066
00:55:40,776 --> 00:55:44,366
you gave me hundreds and hundreds of
bank statements and told me to try
1067
00:55:44,366 --> 00:55:47,076
and find money laundering- Yeah, well-
1068
00:55:47,186 --> 00:55:48,016
…
That's not happening.
1069
00:55:48,736 --> 00:55:48,906
Yeah.
1070
00:55:49,026 --> 00:55:52,396
Yeah, I think it's I think moving
forward just the notion that, like you
1071
00:55:52,396 --> 00:55:56,086
said, things need to be or going to be
more specialized and just with- Yeah
1072
00:55:56,086 --> 00:56:00,296
how everything is so technical and how
errors can happen- Yeah … especially
1073
00:56:00,296 --> 00:56:03,385
in digital evidence, you really
need to have someone that has that
1074
00:56:03,385 --> 00:56:07,215
training and certifications and
experience working on that stuff.
1075
00:56:07,315 --> 00:56:07,635
Yeah.
1076
00:56:07,765 --> 00:56:10,865
And for the listeners I certainly
not saying that once you pick
1077
00:56:10,865 --> 00:56:13,946
one avenue that's where you
have to stay all your life.
1078
00:56:13,956 --> 00:56:13,985
Oh, yeah.
1079
00:56:14,236 --> 00:56:18,186
It's not like it's impossible to leap
to these different types of a- analysis.
1080
00:56:18,206 --> 00:56:18,476
Oh yeah.
1081
00:56:18,506 --> 00:56:21,316
But it's gonna take some a- it's gonna
take some adjustments, it's gonna
1082
00:56:21,316 --> 00:56:23,206
take some learning, some training.
1083
00:56:23,356 --> 00:56:23,506
Yep.
1084
00:56:23,556 --> 00:56:27,166
And that's, there's some
obviously some core skills
1085
00:56:27,176 --> 00:56:29,746
that every analyst should have.
1086
00:56:29,816 --> 00:56:30,006
Yes.
1087
00:56:30,076 --> 00:56:34,590
But you're obviously going to
develop an expertise- As you work
1088
00:56:34,590 --> 00:56:38,520
on the same types of cases or
information over and over again.
1089
00:56:38,690 --> 00:56:39,760
Yes, absolutely.
1090
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,330
It was like going from the intelligence
research unit, which is mainly open source
1091
00:56:43,330 --> 00:56:47,510
intelligence and workups, spatial rec,
to what I'm doing now, which is warrant,
1092
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:49,780
digital evidence, warrant return analysis.
1093
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:53,460
It was a big jump and
there … I had to learn a lot.
1094
00:56:53,620 --> 00:56:55,420
I wasn't very proficient with Excel.
1095
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:59,710
I wasn't used to working with such large
data sets and things being so technical.
1096
00:56:59,710 --> 00:57:03,080
But it is… it was very much
stepping out of my comfort zone, but
1097
00:57:03,100 --> 00:57:04,380
I wouldn't change it for the world.
1098
00:57:04,380 --> 00:57:07,700
So yeah, for the listeners, if you feel
like, "Hey, I might be more interested
1099
00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:09,940
in this type of analysis," go for it.
1100
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:11,490
Doesn't hurt to learn new skills,
1101
00:57:11,540 --> 00:57:11,770
yeah.
1102
00:57:12,140 --> 00:57:12,520
Nice.
1103
00:57:13,180 --> 00:57:13,550
All right.
1104
00:57:13,630 --> 00:57:15,830
Let's let's talk about your certification.
1105
00:57:16,270 --> 00:57:21,440
As I mentioned in your intro that
you are a graduate of the Arizona
1106
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:23,480
Law Enforcement Analysis Academy.
1107
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:23,750
Yes.
1108
00:57:23,850 --> 00:57:27,130
Which you were part of the fourth academy.
1109
00:57:27,550 --> 00:57:27,970
Third.
1110
00:57:27,980 --> 00:57:29,850
And that… Third academy, sorry.
1111
00:57:30,230 --> 00:57:36,640
That this is based originally
off the Florida Fleet Training.
1112
00:57:36,660 --> 00:57:40,700
Arizona has its equivalent and
so you were- Yes … the third.
1113
00:57:40,700 --> 00:57:46,570
So it is a multi-week classroom
environment, homework,
1114
00:57:46,730 --> 00:57:47,120
Oh, yeah
1115
00:57:47,260 --> 00:57:52,900
…
big project at by the end,
very hands-on type training.
1116
00:57:53,070 --> 00:57:57,740
So I wanted to… You're the first one
I've had on the podcast that is a graduate
1117
00:57:57,740 --> 00:58:02,630
of this program, so I wanted to give you
an opportunity to give your perspective
1118
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,750
of the program and what you thought of it.
1119
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:06,460
Absolutely.
1120
00:58:06,460 --> 00:58:06,690
Yeah.
1121
00:58:06,690 --> 00:58:10,570
So I was the class president of the
third academy that they have done.
1122
00:58:10,570 --> 00:58:14,430
They're currently running their fourth, so
obviously very new compared to Florida's.
1123
00:58:14,700 --> 00:58:16,000
There are two parts to it.
1124
00:58:16,020 --> 00:58:20,210
There is the ELITE, which is the Arizona
Law Enforcement Analyst Training, which is
1125
00:58:20,210 --> 00:58:23,780
a 40-hour precursor to the actual academy.
1126
00:58:24,150 --> 00:58:29,120
It's like a little taste of the academy
and to see if you can pass that 40 hour
1127
00:58:29,130 --> 00:58:31,800
to get into the actual academy itself.
1128
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:36,430
The academy is one week out of
the month for six months, so six
1129
00:58:36,430 --> 00:58:38,470
weeks total, 240 training hours.
1130
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:38,850
And
1131
00:58:39,250 --> 00:58:40,830
like you said, very hands-on.
1132
00:58:41,130 --> 00:58:45,610
The whole purpose of building that
academy was to really h- give the
1133
00:58:45,610 --> 00:58:51,110
analysts in Arizona an opportunity
to get those basic core analyst
1134
00:58:51,210 --> 00:58:53,500
functions down, if that makes sense.
1135
00:58:53,510 --> 00:58:58,370
So every, every one in those classes
does completely d- different types
1136
00:58:58,370 --> 00:59:02,700
of analysis, but it was to really
get those core skills down that every
1137
00:59:02,700 --> 00:59:04,630
analyst in Arizona should possess.
1138
00:59:05,030 --> 00:59:08,640
So we did like I mentioned earlier
hotspot mapping, dealing with
1139
00:59:08,650 --> 00:59:13,770
crime series, Predictive analysis,
associate, creating association
1140
00:59:13,770 --> 00:59:18,320
charts, creating event timelines
working with large amounts of data.
1141
00:59:18,610 --> 00:59:21,030
We also had an open
source intelligence class.
1142
00:59:21,460 --> 00:59:25,420
And then also we had a very cool class
that was trying to determine our colors
1143
00:59:25,470 --> 00:59:29,180
as far as our personality traits and
learning that analysts are usually…
1144
00:59:29,180 --> 00:59:33,080
I don't know if the color theory, but
the, analysts tend to be more blue and
1145
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:37,170
green, which is more of that analytical,
slow your roll, let's really dig into
1146
00:59:37,170 --> 00:59:39,980
this- problem-solving, critical thinking.
1147
00:59:40,290 --> 00:59:43,610
Whereas, yellow and orange, which
ironically I fall under that, is
1148
00:59:43,619 --> 00:59:45,600
more of we're sworn personnel.
1149
00:59:45,909 --> 00:59:48,589
Their mentality is of I see
something, I wanna act on it now.
1150
00:59:48,759 --> 00:59:49,849
Let's take action.
1151
00:59:50,019 --> 00:59:50,039
Yeah.
1152
00:59:50,049 --> 00:59:54,149
And so that was cool to also learn
how the majority of analysts have, do
1153
00:59:54,189 --> 00:59:57,759
tend to lean blue and green, but how
they can interact with other colors
1154
00:59:57,769 --> 01:00:01,659
per se, other personalities and how
sworn personnel should interact with
1155
01:00:01,669 --> 01:00:06,099
analysts and vice versa so that your
communication comes across appropriately
1156
01:00:06,099 --> 01:00:07,469
or how you're intending it to.
1157
01:00:07,869 --> 01:00:09,859
So that was a cool little fun part of it.
1158
01:00:09,859 --> 01:00:10,829
But yeah, it was great.
1159
01:00:10,829 --> 01:00:12,219
It's it's comprehensive.
1160
01:00:12,349 --> 01:00:13,289
It's intense.
1161
01:00:13,689 --> 01:00:17,899
Every week you have homework assignments
that are assigned to you that are
1162
01:00:18,129 --> 01:00:21,629
due the following, the beginning of
the following week of the academy.
1163
01:00:21,809 --> 01:00:24,649
And then, there's quizzes at the
end, or I should say the beginning
1164
01:00:25,009 --> 01:00:29,209
of every new week on the prior
week's information, what you learned.
1165
01:00:29,219 --> 01:00:30,529
So that, there's quizzes, homework.
1166
01:00:30,659 --> 01:00:34,309
And throughout the entire thing you are
working on one big strategic assessment.
1167
01:00:34,489 --> 01:00:38,719
It's analyzing raw data sets that
you pull and creating charts and con-
1168
01:00:38,979 --> 01:00:42,429
basically conducting an analysis on
your findings for whatever purpose
1169
01:00:42,429 --> 01:00:46,829
or problem you would like to address,
whether it's within your agency or, just
1170
01:00:46,829 --> 01:00:52,069
something across something that you notice
crime-wise across the United States.
1171
01:00:52,159 --> 01:00:53,879
It's pretty broad what you can pick.
1172
01:00:53,989 --> 01:00:56,599
So yeah, and then you have your
final big paper that you write all
1173
01:00:56,599 --> 01:01:00,439
your findings, your recommendations,
put your charts in there that you
1174
01:01:00,439 --> 01:01:03,709
create in Excel, which again, they
teach you how to do in the academy.
1175
01:01:04,219 --> 01:01:08,069
And then you also have to give
a, I think it's anywhere between
1176
01:01:08,069 --> 01:01:11,359
10 to 15-minute briefing to the
class and create a presentation.
1177
01:01:11,359 --> 01:01:17,029
And so yeah, it's a great baseline for
all the analysts in Arizona to have.
1178
01:01:17,169 --> 01:01:20,659
Now, you mentioned the
w- one-week precursor?
1179
01:01:20,789 --> 01:01:21,289
Yes.
1180
01:01:21,479 --> 01:01:25,979
Pre- You mentioned that, I don't…
That there w- a test to see if you
1181
01:01:25,979 --> 01:01:28,389
were ready for the actual academy.
1182
01:01:28,389 --> 01:01:32,049
Is there a test that you have to pass
in order to qualify for the academy?
1183
01:01:32,219 --> 01:01:32,579
Yeah.
1184
01:01:32,579 --> 01:01:35,649
So there is a test, and then I
believe there's some sort of,
1185
01:01:35,699 --> 01:01:36,979
if I'm remembering correctly,
1186
01:01:37,049 --> 01:01:40,039
…
There's some sort of project or
assignment that you need to complete.
1187
01:01:40,179 --> 01:01:42,609
I don't know if they've changed it,
'cause they've had a couple of them
1188
01:01:42,609 --> 01:01:45,309
since I've been in it, but there is
something at the end, whether it's a
1189
01:01:45,309 --> 01:01:50,299
test or a project or assignment that
you need to pass, and then you need a
1190
01:01:50,299 --> 01:01:54,419
passing score essentially to be able
to apply to the actual academy itself.
1191
01:01:54,529 --> 01:01:54,889
Yeah.
1192
01:01:55,169 --> 01:01:55,439
Yeah.
1193
01:01:55,439 --> 01:01:57,724
But - this is a pretty
big commitment, right?
1194
01:01:57,724 --> 01:02:01,114
It's one week a month, what'd
you say, for six months?
1195
01:02:01,124 --> 01:02:01,144
S-
1196
01:02:01,424 --> 01:02:01,884
correct.
1197
01:02:01,904 --> 01:02:02,244
Yep.
1198
01:02:02,384 --> 01:02:02,584
Yeah.
1199
01:02:02,584 --> 01:02:06,714
That's a pretty big commitment
to take out of your role.
1200
01:02:06,714 --> 01:02:10,754
- , when you're taking this, you've been
an analyst for a couple years, so
1201
01:02:10,804 --> 01:02:15,184
this is pretty big commitment to
be taking time out of what you're
1202
01:02:15,184 --> 01:02:17,024
normally doing to do this training.
1203
01:02:17,194 --> 01:02:17,864
Absolutely.
1204
01:02:17,864 --> 01:02:21,634
And yeah, you're w- you have to get it
approved with your chain of command.
1205
01:02:21,714 --> 01:02:25,504
W- you have to… There's documents
that you provide to them that explain
1206
01:02:25,884 --> 01:02:29,164
How much of a time commitment it is
and that your chain of command is
1207
01:02:29,164 --> 01:02:33,584
essentially approving you to be out of
your normal role for that amount of time.
1208
01:02:33,934 --> 01:02:37,134
But I do feel nobody had
any issues with getting that
1209
01:02:37,134 --> 01:02:38,754
approved, as far as I'm concerned.
1210
01:02:38,754 --> 01:02:42,854
I've never, I think the program
in itself justifies itself.
1211
01:02:43,014 --> 01:02:46,304
And yeah, and then again, it really
puts your time management skills
1212
01:02:46,304 --> 01:02:49,864
to the test because when you get
back to work after the, your week
1213
01:02:49,864 --> 01:02:53,014
of the academy, you're trying to
catch up on your normal caseload-
1214
01:02:53,104 --> 01:02:56,434
your normal duties, and then- … you
have homework- … due that next week,
1215
01:02:56,444 --> 01:02:58,514
which were some pretty hefty assignments.
1216
01:02:58,574 --> 01:03:01,074
And then- … you're also in
the meanwhile working on steps
1217
01:03:01,074 --> 01:03:02,364
of your strategic assessment.
1218
01:03:02,364 --> 01:03:06,214
So it really puts your time management
skills to the test and how you can
1219
01:03:06,214 --> 01:03:10,424
really get everything done in time- while
managing your normal duties as assigned.
1220
01:03:10,564 --> 01:03:10,874
Yeah.
1221
01:03:11,054 --> 01:03:15,974
I guess when you think about it now,
what are some things that stick out
1222
01:03:15,984 --> 01:03:21,944
for you, maybe in terms of maybe
some, some surprises or maybe some
1223
01:03:22,494 --> 01:03:24,764
information you really found interesting?
1224
01:03:24,944 --> 01:03:29,644
I would say, because again, I right
off the rip, through my internship and
1225
01:03:29,644 --> 01:03:34,564
then my career field so far has purely
been open source intelligence and then
1226
01:03:34,814 --> 01:03:41,674
investigative analysis, and so I really
had no idea about crime mapping, about
1227
01:03:41,694 --> 01:03:46,774
hotspot- mapping, ArcGIS, … Power BI,
Tableau, all of these things that I've
1228
01:03:46,784 --> 01:03:50,194
heard other analysts talk about their
duties and what they do and these programs
1229
01:03:50,194 --> 01:03:53,734
that they use, but I had no idea what
they were referring to, and they would
1230
01:03:53,734 --> 01:03:57,364
try to, try and explain it to me, and
I was like, "Ah, numbers and formulas."
1231
01:03:58,114 --> 01:03:59,504
So it was very neat.
1232
01:03:59,824 --> 01:04:03,874
I think for everyone, this was a general
consensus to see what we all do and what
1233
01:04:03,884 --> 01:04:08,494
our capabilities are, And so learning
hey, it's not as intimidating as I thought
1234
01:04:08,494 --> 01:04:13,064
it would be once you actually sit there
and our mentors and or instructors and
1235
01:04:13,064 --> 01:04:16,904
mentors in the academy Brittany and
Mike Winslow, they work with Scottsdale
1236
01:04:16,904 --> 01:04:20,864
Police Department, but they're they
instruct a large portion of the academy
1237
01:04:20,864 --> 01:04:24,864
and they're really great about, they
understand that a lot of the things that
1238
01:04:24,864 --> 01:04:28,624
we're learning, we don't work with on a
day-to-day basis or they're new to us.
1239
01:04:28,634 --> 01:04:31,794
And we all have different duties,
so we're stepping out of our comfort
1240
01:04:31,794 --> 01:04:34,324
zone and they do a great job of
really walking us through and saying
1241
01:04:34,384 --> 01:04:35,754
"Hey, we know this is different.
1242
01:04:35,804 --> 01:04:38,374
We know you're outside of your
comfort zone, but you can do it.
1243
01:04:38,374 --> 01:04:44,074
Just we gotta take it one step at a
time." So they're great and I, yeah, I
1244
01:04:44,084 --> 01:04:48,264
loved learning what other analysts do
in their day-to-day roles and how they
1245
01:04:48,264 --> 01:04:51,824
make, their pretty charts and graphs
that they bring to the chief once a
1246
01:04:51,824 --> 01:04:56,954
month, which, where to delegate their
resources and patrol and things maybe for
1247
01:04:56,954 --> 01:05:01,914
funding or, what crimes have gone up and
significantly which, what has gone down.
1248
01:05:01,914 --> 01:05:05,954
I thought that was super, super neat and
it's just not something like I, I knew it
1249
01:05:05,954 --> 01:05:10,304
existed obviously, but I didn't know how
to create those charts or take that data,
1250
01:05:10,464 --> 01:05:14,714
paint it into a pretty picture for the
swarm personnel, so that was really cool.
1251
01:05:14,864 --> 01:05:15,174
Yeah.
1252
01:05:15,364 --> 01:05:17,794
Yeah they're fan… They're
they're friends of the show.
1253
01:05:17,814 --> 01:05:19,474
They've been on the podcast.
1254
01:05:19,474 --> 01:05:22,774
In fact Mike has a series, Did
You Know with Mike Winslow.
1255
01:05:22,834 --> 01:05:23,244
Yeah
1256
01:05:23,454 --> 01:05:27,704
…
so I for those listening I'll put the
links to their episodes in the show notes
1257
01:05:27,714 --> 01:05:30,144
so you can hear their podcast as well.
1258
01:05:30,284 --> 01:05:34,224
I think one- Yeah … of the
beauties about this program is not
1259
01:05:34,224 --> 01:05:39,234
only learning the basics, like you
mentioned, but also the networking.
1260
01:05:39,374 --> 01:05:44,584
So now you have analysts that are
part of your cohort spread- … all
1261
01:05:44,584 --> 01:05:49,524
over Arizona doing a variety of
analysis that you mentioned- … that
1262
01:05:49,524 --> 01:05:51,884
you now have contact with.
1263
01:05:51,974 --> 01:06:00,054
And so when you have a need to reach out
to Scottsdale or reach out to different
1264
01:06:00,104 --> 01:06:08,294
parts of Arizona, you can contact your
cohort member there from this academy
1265
01:06:08,434 --> 01:06:11,474
and get get assistance right away.
1266
01:06:11,634 --> 01:06:13,044
And I think- Oh,
yeah … that's really powerful.
1267
01:06:13,194 --> 01:06:14,264
The networking was great.
1268
01:06:14,264 --> 01:06:16,654
There was a an analyst from the DMV there.
1269
01:06:16,714 --> 01:06:19,934
And I didn't, we didn't know that there
was an analyst or DMV- Yeah … had
1270
01:06:19,934 --> 01:06:23,334
an analyst, and her role is super
cool- … in trying to prevent,
1271
01:06:23,434 --> 01:06:25,134
driver's license fraud and whatnot.
1272
01:06:25,254 --> 01:06:29,534
And so yeah, we just, we basically have
contacts from every c- corner of the
1273
01:06:29,534 --> 01:06:31,924
state now, which is awesome, invaluable.
1274
01:06:31,924 --> 01:06:34,764
And I also met two of my closest
friends in the academy, I met
1275
01:06:34,764 --> 01:06:37,204
them, but then they now happen
to be two of my closest friends.
1276
01:06:37,254 --> 01:06:38,654
But- … yeah it's great.
1277
01:06:38,694 --> 01:06:39,784
The networking is great.
1278
01:06:39,784 --> 01:06:42,264
You really bond together
going through the assignments.
1279
01:06:42,564 --> 01:06:43,564
You lean on each other.
1280
01:06:43,564 --> 01:06:48,184
Hey, I remember going up to y- one
of my classmates, and I was just, the
1281
01:06:48,184 --> 01:06:53,464
hotspot mapping and predictive analysis,
I was like, "I, this is outside of my
1282
01:06:53,464 --> 01:06:55,054
comfort zone." She was like, "Come on.
1283
01:06:55,155 --> 01:06:55,885
I do this all the time.
1284
01:06:55,885 --> 01:06:56,414
I'll help you."
1285
01:06:56,424 --> 01:06:57,864
So it was great.
1286
01:06:57,924 --> 01:07:01,634
And it's definitely a bond that you
create, and you can call up that
1287
01:07:01,634 --> 01:07:03,054
person whenever if you need something.
1288
01:07:03,054 --> 01:07:04,664
So yeah it, like you said it's great.
1289
01:07:05,204 --> 01:07:06,264
Very good.
1290
01:07:06,424 --> 01:07:06,814
All right.
1291
01:07:06,954 --> 01:07:08,614
Advice section now.
1292
01:07:08,664 --> 01:07:12,590
What advice do you have for our
listeners, whether they're- Folks
1293
01:07:12,590 --> 01:07:16,340
looking to get into the field, brand
new analyst or experienced analyst
1294
01:07:17,060 --> 01:07:21,580
I would say don't be afraid to
step out of your comfort zone.
1295
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:26,100
Different aspects of analysis can be
super intimidating, especially when
1296
01:07:26,100 --> 01:07:29,590
it deals with a large amount of data
or if it's a super high pressure
1297
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,620
environment where things and products
need to be pushed out quickly or you
1298
01:07:32,620 --> 01:07:35,110
need accurate intelligence quickly.
1299
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:38,990
If there's a high risk event or, the
chief is asking for something very
1300
01:07:38,990 --> 01:07:44,930
specific, I would encourage analysts
to remember that you can only grow
1301
01:07:44,940 --> 01:07:48,140
when you step out of your comfort
zone and try to learn something new.
1302
01:07:48,210 --> 01:07:52,680
And as long as you take it one step
at a time, and if you need help, don't
1303
01:07:52,690 --> 01:07:57,020
be afraid to ask someone who may be
more experienced, especially in that
1304
01:07:57,020 --> 01:08:02,780
specific area, for assistance because
it can only benefit you and your agency.
1305
01:08:02,790 --> 01:08:06,480
So I think really being… you need
to be willing to step out of your
1306
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:11,090
comfort zone and learn and grow because
this field is also ever evolving.
1307
01:08:11,210 --> 01:08:14,450
So- Yeah … I would say that's my
biggest piece of advice to those who
1308
01:08:14,450 --> 01:08:16,640
are in the field or wanting to join
1309
01:08:17,338 --> 01:08:17,648
. Nice.
1310
01:08:17,688 --> 01:08:20,038
All right, let's finish up
with personal interest then.
1311
01:08:20,208 --> 01:08:23,308
And you enjoy shooting.
1312
01:08:23,468 --> 01:08:24,368
I do.
1313
01:08:24,558 --> 01:08:28,568
So how long have you enjoyed shooting,
and what do you normally shoot?
1314
01:08:28,718 --> 01:08:33,128
So actually funny enough, at the
attorney general's office, our mentors
1315
01:08:33,238 --> 01:08:35,748
would bring us into the armory.
1316
01:08:35,748 --> 01:08:41,148
And before we were bringing us out to the
range was ever a thought in their minds-
1317
01:08:41,468 --> 01:08:46,678
… we had to learn how to, obviously the,
all the safety rules, the gun safety
1318
01:08:46,678 --> 01:08:48,168
rules, we had to have those memorized.
1319
01:08:48,478 --> 01:08:48,618
Yeah.
1320
01:08:48,628 --> 01:08:51,618
And then we were given Glock 19s.
1321
01:08:51,618 --> 01:08:53,608
We had to memorize all the,
the names of the parts.
1322
01:08:53,608 --> 01:08:56,558
We had to pull apart the gun,
learn how to put it back together.
1323
01:08:56,568 --> 01:08:56,588
Yeah.
1324
01:08:56,598 --> 01:08:59,298
And even if you had it down pat,
you had to do it again and again.
1325
01:08:59,518 --> 01:09:02,278
… And so they really worked with
us, and if they saw any sign of
1326
01:09:02,318 --> 01:09:05,748
unprofessionalism, they knew that going
out to the range was not gonna happen.
1327
01:09:05,758 --> 01:09:07,348
That's something they took very seriously.
1328
01:09:07,708 --> 01:09:10,988
And believe it or not, when I got
into that armory or the, yeah,
1329
01:09:11,018 --> 01:09:13,778
armory for the first time, and that
was my first time ever touching
1330
01:09:13,778 --> 01:09:17,528
a gun or actually even seeing one
up close other than on their hips.
1331
01:09:17,568 --> 01:09:19,378
The agents- Yeah … having them
on their hips or, their belts.
1332
01:09:19,488 --> 01:09:19,578
Yeah.
1333
01:09:19,778 --> 01:09:22,478
And so I was scared to no end.
1334
01:09:22,478 --> 01:09:25,078
I was literally shaking, taking it
apart and putting it back together.
1335
01:09:25,398 --> 01:09:25,418
Yeah.
1336
01:09:25,428 --> 01:09:29,758
And then loading obviously the
ammo, practicing mag, mag drops,
1337
01:09:30,088 --> 01:09:33,958
clearing the gun and then practicing
grip and then trigger pulls.
1338
01:09:34,068 --> 01:09:37,498
And then eventually we did get
to go to the the range with the,
1339
01:09:37,628 --> 01:09:41,468
they're also our instructors, but
our mentors, and they took us out,
1340
01:09:41,518 --> 01:09:43,238
and that was my first time shooting.
1341
01:09:43,718 --> 01:09:47,678
There's a video of me, and the, when
the first intern pulls the trigger
1342
01:09:47,759 --> 01:09:52,138
and, the gun goes off, I literally jerk
my entire head forward because I was
1343
01:09:52,138 --> 01:09:54,188
so scared even with my headphones on.
1344
01:09:55,598 --> 01:09:58,698
But after I started, shooting, I was
hesitant, but once I started doing
1345
01:09:58,698 --> 01:10:00,398
it and getting more comfortable- Yeah
1346
01:10:00,408 --> 01:10:05,780
that adrenaline rush, I was like,
"This is so fun." And then after that
1347
01:10:05,780 --> 01:10:09,130
I was like, "You guys," because the
other interns all wanted to go sworn.
1348
01:10:09,180 --> 01:10:10,910
But I knew- Okay … that I
wanted to go the analyst route,
1349
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:12,140
at least for the time being.
1350
01:10:12,490 --> 01:10:14,280
And so I would drag them
and be like, "Can we go?
1351
01:10:14,310 --> 01:10:15,010
Can we go to the range?
1352
01:10:15,010 --> 01:10:20,810
Come on, let's go." And so really
honestly, I just stick to the Glock 19.
1353
01:10:20,810 --> 01:10:23,560
Yeah … but rifles are
really fun to shoot.
1354
01:10:23,830 --> 01:10:26,370
Semi-auto- automatic
rifles are fun to shoot.
1355
01:10:26,550 --> 01:10:31,070
So I like the fun aspect of it or, with
the rifles, but also just practicing.
1356
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:34,980
I don't have my own firearm yet, but
I eventually would like to have one.
1357
01:10:34,990 --> 01:10:35,010
Yeah.
1358
01:10:35,060 --> 01:10:36,570
So- That was my next-
Especially in Arizona.
1359
01:10:37,740 --> 01:10:41,310
That was my next question, whether
you're… own a, own one yourself.
1360
01:10:41,380 --> 01:10:44,180
I should, and we'll get there,
but I'm the type that wants
1361
01:10:44,180 --> 01:10:46,130
to be extremely comfortable.
1362
01:10:46,140 --> 01:10:46,160
Yeah.
1363
01:10:46,350 --> 01:10:47,860
Like beyond comfortable with it.
1364
01:10:48,070 --> 01:10:50,710
And so I just need to
dedicate more time to-
1365
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:50,980
Yeah
1366
01:10:51,010 --> 01:10:52,630
getting out there and practicing.
1367
01:10:52,650 --> 01:10:54,290
But eventually yes.
1368
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:54,640
Will.
1369
01:10:55,250 --> 01:10:55,530
Yeah.
1370
01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:58,430
You're following your own advice
to expand your comfort zone.
1371
01:10:58,780 --> 01:10:59,960
Yeah, absolutely.
1372
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:00,650
Yep.
1373
01:11:00,810 --> 01:11:02,860
All right, Vanessa, this
has been really great.
1374
01:11:02,970 --> 01:11:06,970
Thank you for your time and
contributions to the profession.
1375
01:11:07,540 --> 01:11:10,770
Our last segment to the show is Words
to the World, and this is where you
1376
01:11:10,770 --> 01:11:12,810
can promote any idea that you wish.
1377
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:14,920
Vanessa, what are your words to the world?
1378
01:11:15,130 --> 01:11:18,750
So as I mentioned earlier, I am extremely
passionate about internet crimes against
1379
01:11:18,750 --> 01:11:23,160
children, and people may not know this
or probably don't know this, but there
1380
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:30,350
is no… With the high increase of AI and
its ability to doctor and alter images,
1381
01:11:30,350 --> 01:11:34,730
we've seen in the field an increase
in AI-generated child sexual abuse
1382
01:11:34,730 --> 01:11:36,870
material, which is extremely unfortunate.
1383
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:41,110
I know on social media people will
tend to still post their children,
1384
01:11:41,110 --> 01:11:42,610
but will cover their faces.
1385
01:11:42,910 --> 01:11:48,950
With AI and AI-generated CSAM, it's just
not even safe to post your child at all.
1386
01:11:49,340 --> 01:11:53,150
As scary as that sounds, even just
the body showing in any capacity could
1387
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:55,140
be used in an ill way by someone.
1388
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:59,550
And my point in saying a- and letting
people know this is there is no federal
1389
01:11:59,550 --> 01:12:01,970
statute right now for AI-generated CSAM.
1390
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:06,830
So if, God forbid, some- someone doctors
an image of your child and creates them
1391
01:12:06,830 --> 01:12:10,280
a victim there is no federal statute,
and I believe right now only three
1392
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:12,540
states have some sort of state statute.
1393
01:12:12,540 --> 01:12:16,760
I know it's going up and increasing
slowly, but I would just encourage
1394
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:21,040
that online safety and to protect
your children as much as possible
1395
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:22,950
from the internet because AI is…
1396
01:12:23,460 --> 01:12:27,330
its bene- it has its benefits, but it
also can be used in really dark ways.
1397
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:31,890
And, it's really hard right now to
get justice with the technicalities
1398
01:12:31,890 --> 01:12:36,360
of is it a real victim if, it's an
AI-generated face, things of that manner.
1399
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:39,560
So that would be my advice to the world.
1400
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:41,400
Very good.
1401
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:44,540
I leave every guest with you've given me
just enough to talk bad about you later.
1402
01:12:45,630 --> 01:12:46,270
Oh, wow.
1403
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:46,890
Thank you.
1404
01:12:46,890 --> 01:12:50,560
I do appreciate you being
on the show, Vanessa.
1405
01:12:51,010 --> 01:12:52,880
Thank you so much, and you be safe.
1406
01:12:53,790 --> 01:12:55,350
Thank you so much for having me, Jason.
1407
01:12:55,350 --> 01:12:56,100
I appreciate it
1408
01:12:56,580 --> 01:12:58,920
Thank you for making it to
the end of another episode of
1409
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:00,300
Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
1410
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:03,810
You can show your support by sharing
this and other episodes found on
1411
01:13:03,810 --> 01:13:03,940
our website@www.leapodcasts.com.
1412
01:13:08,310 --> 01:13:11,460
If you have a topic you would like
us to cover or have a suggestion
1413
01:13:11,460 --> 01:13:13,900
for our next guest, please send us
an email at LEApodcasts@gmail.com
1414
01:13:16,175 --> 01:13:18,150
Till next time, analysts, keep talking.