Analyst Talk - Steve Walter - Rooted in Oceanside with Longevity and Leadership

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Welcome to Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
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It's like coffee with an analyst,
or it could be whiskey with an
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analyst reading a spreadsheet,
linking crime events, identifying a
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series, and getting the latest scoop
on association news and training.
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So please don't beat that analyst
and join us as we define the law
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enforcement analysis profession.
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One episode at time.
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Thank you for joining me.
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I hope many aspects of
your life are progressing.
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My name is Jason Elder and today our
guest has 22 years of law enforcement
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analysis experience all with the
Oceanside Police Department in California.
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He's currently a crime
and intelligence manager.
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He holds a certificate in crime
and intelligence analysis.
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He holds a master's of art in contemporary
British history from the University
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of London, and he is also a former
president of the San Diego Crime and
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Intelligence Analysis Association.
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Please welcome Steve Walter.
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Steve, how are we doing?
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We're
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doing good.
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Thanks very much, Jason.
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That was a rousing introduction.
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I know, I know.
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I think I did that without
making any mistakes.
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How about that?
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Oh, it's awesome.
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So I was, looking at your resume I
was thinking about this interview.
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We did the prep call yesterday
and we were trying to figure out.
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How long it's been since we talked and I
was like, you know what, it's probably 10
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years and I see on your resume here that
you have Bellevue, Washington for IACA in
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2014, and that's probably the last time
we were in the same vicinity together.
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Yeah, I think that's a really good guess.
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I
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knew it had been a while.
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Oh, geez.
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So, yeah, so obviously time has, passed us
by a little bit as, as we've talked last.
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So I am really looking forward.
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Yeah.
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Like I need another
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reminder.
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Yeah.
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But I am looking to hear your, your story.
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We've certainly have old
connection at IACA conferences, but
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i'm looking forward to hearing
your story and actually what you've
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been up to for the last 10 years.
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Yeah, well, I'll tell you what,
it's just to hear that the last IACA
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conference 2014 just tells me that I
just don't get the chance to connect
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with the analyst community as often as
I used to in the ways that I used to.
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So this is actually fun for me.
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This is a treat to get to talk to you
and to think about who might be on the
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listening end and where they're at in
their careers and, and be able to just
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exclusively talk about analyst stuff.
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So I'm looking forward to it.
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All right, so let's hear your story.
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How did you discover the law
enforcement analysis profession?
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Well, I can, tell you that, and
I typically tell people when they
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ask this question that I completely
stumbled into a law enforcement career.
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I never had any ambitions of working
in a police department growing up.
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It was not something that
I thought I would do.
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I think what led to it was when I did go
over to London to do a master's degree.
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At the time I, I, I really just wanted
to go to London, live in London.
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I'd been there as a undergrad student.
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I said, if I'm ever gonna do a graduate
degree, I'm gonna go to London.
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And so I said, what should I study?
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Contemporary British history, of course.
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And I loved every minute of it.
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And it was a ton of fun.
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But I didn't know what I was gonna do
with that degree even as I was over there.
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And I was there.
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I started that in 1999 through
2001 and Oh, yeah, while I
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was there, nine 11 happened.
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Mm-hmm.
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And that was definitely a
a pivotal, profound moment.
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It was really life changing to be overseas
when something like that was happening,
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to be able to witness how the rest of
the world saw America at that time.
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And it got me thinking like, well,
what can I do in this moment to be.
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A part of whatever it is we
need to do going forward.
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And I realized that my degree was
really gonna lend itself well to
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a career in intelligence analysis.
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That was contemporary British
history for me was much like a
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foreign affairs type of degree.
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I was learning a lot about government
and international relations, so
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it seemed like it was a good fit.
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Plus I was learning how to do
research, how to give presentations.
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So at the time while I was
there, I actually applied for
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a job at an organization in
London that no longer exists.
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It was called the, if I remember right,
it was called the National Intelligence.
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Service, which was kind of like
a Interpol, but only for the uk.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I went down, I still remember when
I went down to interview, what was cool
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was the building I showed up at was
adjacent to the big MI six building.
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And I was, I mean, I was
like, this is pretty cool.
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Here I am, I'm going in like
I'm gonna see James Bond as I'm
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walking in from my job interview.
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And I sat down and I
listened to the questions.
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And I realized I clearly had
no business being there at all.
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I didn't get the job, of course,
but I was totally intrigued.
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I was like, well, what do I need to learn
to get here to do something like this?
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So the other thing that was happening
at the time was I was my wife and
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I, we stretched out our London
experience as much as possible,
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but we were running outta money.
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We both had jobs.
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I was actually working for an outfit
called The History of Parliament,
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which was actually it was a it was
like working for, for Parliament,
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doing historical research.
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And I knew I didn't want to do
that and it wasn't paying anything.
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So we, we were like we gotta
come back to the states.
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And so during that transition, I
discovered that there was a program
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being taught in, in California
called the Crime Analysis and
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Intelligence Certificate Program.
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So I flew back and I ended up in
Steve Gottlieb's classroom learning
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the, ABCs of Crime analysis.
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And I, I think even then I
kind of pictured myself maybe
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working for the FBI or the CIA.
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Mm-hmm.
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But I was kind of getting a crash course
in police work at the same time, and
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I thought maybe I can do this too.
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And as that was happening a
job opened up here in Oceanside
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for a crime analyst position.
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I applied and one thing led to another.
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Like I said, we'd run outta
money and I needed a job.
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Yeah.
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So kind of to fast forward in the story,
I showed up for the job interview here
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in o in, in Oceanside and thinking
like this would be like a plug and
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play analyst position that I could
maybe kind of get my feet wet with.
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And they looked at me and they said,
well, we've actually never had a
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crime analyst here and we need someone
to build a crime analysis program.
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And I, in my head.
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I was like, oh my God.
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Like, well, I'm definitely not your guy.
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I have no idea how you
would even start to do that.
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But what I said was
absolutely I'll, I'll take it.
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I can do this.
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And next thing I know, I had the job.
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So they hired me and I, came to
Oceanside with the task of trying
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to build a crime analysis program.
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Oh
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man.
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Yeah.
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Fake
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it till you make it.
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That is yes, absolutely.
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The way you would describe
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it.
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I do wanna go on with Oceanside, but I
have two questions before we leave London.
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I. So my, ignorant American question
is, when you worked for Parliament,
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did you have to wear a wick?
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I
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did not have to wear a wick.
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But man, have, have you ever seen
like a film where there's some really
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stuffy British library where like
the smallest noise echoes through
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the chambers of the stacks of books?
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Yeah.
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That was essentially like the environment
I worked in , I had these huge
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binders that were full of historical
records for the House of Lords that
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were written in, like calligraphy.
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And my job at the time was I had to
read these things and then I had to
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enter, transcribe the information
into a Microsoft Access database.
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Oh, wow.
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So that was, that was one of my, my
things when I, when I showed up to
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take an analyst job, I was like, I do
have experience with Microsoft Access.
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Oh man.
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And, but it was so
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boring.
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It was so, it was brutally, brutally
boring, , the task itself was boring,
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but it was pretty cool to get a
paycheck and get that little symbol
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of Parliament on it and be like,
yeah, I'm working on the, in the inner
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circles of the British government.
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My other question, this is more,
on the personal side of things.
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Is there a, favorite spot or a
favorite food or something that you
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miss from your time there in London?
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Oh, man, that's a really good question
because there are so many that I
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could probably sit here and reel off.
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But I think if, if there's one thing I've
always missed about London when I had
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this job, I would, I remember when it
would start to get to summer and the, I.
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The evenings would stay lighter later.
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The sun didn't go down till like 10
o'clock it felt like, and you'd get
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off work and I would walk, I, instead
of taking any transportation, I
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would walk from my office all the way
down to the river and I might stop
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in a pub, grab a pint, who knows?
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And I would, I would get to
the river and often my wife
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was there with me at the time.
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And, and we would coordinate this and
it's not like today where you just
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would text somebody, meet me here.
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We, we would like say, okay,
six o'clock we're gonna meet
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on the South Bank after work.
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And, and she would walk from her
work and I would walk from mine and
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we'd walk down there and I'd walk
over the bridge across the river.
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And often there might be like a a concert
going on on the South Bank or just people.
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Out and about sitting on the river
and, and, and if I could transport
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myself and do that on any given given
evening, that's what I would do.
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Nice.
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Good answer.
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All right.
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Let's talk about you
starting at Oceanside.
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So it's 2003 , as you mentioned,
you were influenced by nine 11.
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You, you get this position,
you're, you're at the moment.
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You're faking it.
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You're walking in, you're walking
in for the first time to the office.
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Just talk about those
first couple of weeks
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I can tell you that I can, I, I definitely
remember my first day on the job.
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Mm-hmm.
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So I showed up and at the time the
person that hired me and was my first
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boss was our investigations lieutenant.
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So I walk inside, they'd given me my
badge or whatever to be able to get in
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the building, and I go down to her office
and she sees me and she says, oh, you've
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picked a really great day for a first day.
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She says, we just she's chipper, right?
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She says, we just had
a homicide last night.
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Hop in my car.
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So I'm like, okay, well here we go.
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So next thing we're rolling out to a
homicide scene we get there it was out, it
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was in a park outside of a bathroom, and.
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The, the deceased had been taken
away by that time, but there's
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still blood on the, on the sidewalk.
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Here I am, we're walking around
and she says, oh, by the way, we,
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we still haven't found a murder
weapon, so keep your eyes peeled.
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And I'm like, we haven't found a murder.
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Keep my eyes peeled.
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I said, I'm more likely to destroy
evidence than recognize it.
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My God.
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Like, what am I doing?
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But , that was a moment where
everything became very real, very fast.
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Like I just looking at the spot
and going, somebody just got.
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Murdered here.
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This is not a TV show.
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What have I gotten myself into?
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And you just don't forget those moments.
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I mean, it's so vivid.
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I can look back and I can just
see everything about that day.
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And I think we went from there.
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We went of course to lunch and that's
when I learned that detectives,
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when you're detective, you go have
lunch at like 10 30 in the morning.
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And so yeah, we went to her favorite
Mexican restaurant and I did my best
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to eat like a full plate of enchiladas.
236
00:11:14,531 --> 00:11:15,461
And that was my first day.
237
00:11:16,511 --> 00:11:20,021
You're like, they're like, Hey,
is it, is the, is analyst coming
238
00:11:20,021 --> 00:11:23,111
back tomorrow or you think they,
there's probably bets going on.
239
00:11:23,111 --> 00:11:25,541
Like, Hey, who, who's,
who's kind of coming back?
240
00:11:25,541 --> 00:11:26,651
Who, what's the odds?
241
00:11:26,861 --> 00:11:29,540
No, actually it was, it
was, I was in, I was like.
242
00:11:29,766 --> 00:11:30,786
I'm all in.
243
00:11:30,786 --> 00:11:31,685
Like, this is cool.
244
00:11:31,685 --> 00:11:35,566
It just like let me like come
along on a, to a, a murder scene.
245
00:11:35,566 --> 00:11:39,526
I'm like, I'm, I'm definitely gonna
stick around and see what happens next.
246
00:11:39,626 --> 00:11:42,086
Now they're gonna actually
let me do real police work.
247
00:11:42,086 --> 00:11:43,196
This is, this is crazy.
248
00:11:43,196 --> 00:11:45,116
So that, that was a hook for me.
249
00:11:45,116 --> 00:11:47,876
I was, I was definitely
excited about my first day.
250
00:11:48,026 --> 00:11:48,326
Yeah.
251
00:11:48,476 --> 00:11:52,965
So then talk about getting into that
analyst role they've never had an
252
00:11:52,965 --> 00:11:55,095
analyst and you've never been an analyst.
253
00:11:55,095 --> 00:12:00,286
So just talk about how the growing
pains of getting the unit developed.
254
00:12:00,465 --> 00:12:04,665
So yeah, you, I can imagine that this is
the part of the story that if you have
255
00:12:04,665 --> 00:12:09,376
people on the show, we share a lot of
the same parts of this story, which is
256
00:12:09,446 --> 00:12:11,936
people hire an analyst, they want you to.
257
00:12:12,276 --> 00:12:18,456
Produce Intel products or crime analysis
products, and then you're stuck as
258
00:12:18,456 --> 00:12:22,436
being the person to figure out how
to get the information because either
259
00:12:22,706 --> 00:12:27,176
the RMS system is terrible, or in our
case, we didn't even have an RMS system
260
00:12:27,706 --> 00:12:32,226
I'm told, I'm asking, so how can I
get access to, or read crime reports?
261
00:12:32,346 --> 00:12:33,636
And they're like, well, you know.
262
00:12:34,261 --> 00:12:37,531
It has to get approved and then it's
gonna get signed by this person.
263
00:12:37,531 --> 00:12:40,261
It's gonna go on a little cart, and
then it'll come over and then you're
264
00:12:40,261 --> 00:12:44,071
gonna get this you'll be able to read
a report like two or three days later.
265
00:12:44,131 --> 00:12:48,011
And I'm at the same time, I've got,
I've got like captains and lieutenants
266
00:12:48,011 --> 00:12:50,411
that are, they're all excited that
they have an analyst and they're
267
00:12:50,411 --> 00:12:54,761
like, Hey can you tell me like how
many burglaries we had yesterday?
268
00:12:54,821 --> 00:12:57,281
And I'm like, I, how am
I supposed to do that?
269
00:12:57,281 --> 00:12:58,631
That seems impossible.
270
00:12:58,631 --> 00:13:03,501
So there was definitely some panicky
moments where the expectations for
271
00:13:03,501 --> 00:13:07,971
what I could deliver were a complete
mismatch for what it was I was
272
00:13:08,001 --> 00:13:12,321
able to provide based on what I had
access to, what I had yet to learn.
273
00:13:12,421 --> 00:13:17,091
All of those things typical challenges
and that I think that was an important
274
00:13:17,091 --> 00:13:22,101
moment because it taught me that you
can't wait around for somebody to.
275
00:13:22,456 --> 00:13:26,326
Give you the answer, you have to be
super creative with how you find it.
276
00:13:26,326 --> 00:13:30,286
In my case, I ended up leaning
on a program that we had
277
00:13:30,286 --> 00:13:32,206
that accessed our CAD system.
278
00:13:32,266 --> 00:13:35,026
That allowed me to, even if I
couldn't read the crime report, at
279
00:13:35,026 --> 00:13:38,356
least I can see the CAD and I can
see the, the calls for service.
280
00:13:38,356 --> 00:13:41,776
I can see the dispatch comments
and I can understand like, what
281
00:13:41,776 --> 00:13:43,276
actually is going on out there.
282
00:13:43,546 --> 00:13:47,696
And then I would use that to populate
a spreadsheet or whatever it is.
283
00:13:47,966 --> 00:13:48,776
Do you remember the name of
284
00:13:48,776 --> 00:13:49,286
the program?
285
00:13:49,436 --> 00:13:52,406
Well, initially it was
a, an access database.
286
00:13:52,526 --> 00:13:52,646
Mm-hmm.
287
00:13:52,836 --> 00:13:56,616
That I was using that we had a kind of
a brainy lieutenant that had built it.
288
00:13:56,706 --> 00:14:00,186
And, and you look back in these moments
and you're like, Hey, thank God that
289
00:14:00,186 --> 00:14:05,716
person thought, hey, maybe Steve could use
this and, and help me to get me going on
290
00:14:05,716 --> 00:14:07,746
something that would kind of fill a hole.
291
00:14:08,376 --> 00:14:08,436
Yeah.
292
00:14:08,486 --> 00:14:13,106
And then it's actually kind
of a cool story from that.
293
00:14:13,336 --> 00:14:16,876
We ended up finding a vendor called
First Watch that we still work with
294
00:14:16,876 --> 00:14:22,126
today, that built a program for crime
analysis based on how we were doing
295
00:14:22,126 --> 00:14:24,406
business getting information out of cad.
296
00:14:24,556 --> 00:14:29,796
And they, they customized this, this
dashboard that every day I'd come in
297
00:14:29,796 --> 00:14:33,996
and I'd use it to try to get an idea
of when and where crime was happening.
298
00:14:33,996 --> 00:14:37,806
And it actually had a mapping feature
that displayed things on a map for me.
299
00:14:37,866 --> 00:14:39,606
We still use that 20 years later.
300
00:14:39,636 --> 00:14:41,526
We, and it hasn't even changed that much.
301
00:14:41,526 --> 00:14:44,406
And my analysts, it's part
of their daily re routine.
302
00:14:44,406 --> 00:14:47,866
They come in and they look at that
and that it was a problem solving
303
00:14:47,866 --> 00:14:50,896
moment, but it laid the groundwork
for how we built our program.
304
00:14:51,046 --> 00:14:51,466
Nice.
305
00:14:51,586 --> 00:14:52,036
Nice.
306
00:14:52,136 --> 00:14:55,526
, How long before you're
getting another analyst?
307
00:14:55,676 --> 00:14:56,276
Oh wow.
308
00:14:56,276 --> 00:15:00,026
Well, that was a good, I have
to think it's got a, that had to
309
00:15:00,026 --> 00:15:02,006
be at least three or four years.
310
00:15:02,786 --> 00:15:04,166
Where I was totally by myself.
311
00:15:04,286 --> 00:15:04,496
Yeah.
312
00:15:04,616 --> 00:15:06,936
And that, that, that came about.
313
00:15:06,936 --> 00:15:11,046
It's, it's like, I think if you,
in these conversations, sometimes
314
00:15:11,046 --> 00:15:16,186
you can see a common theme is
desperation drives innovation, right?
315
00:15:16,216 --> 00:15:16,306
Mm-hmm.
316
00:15:16,312 --> 00:15:20,026
I mean, yeah, I, I didn't have any
money, so I had to take the job.
317
00:15:20,096 --> 00:15:23,876
I didn't have access to data, so we
had to come up with another solution.
318
00:15:23,906 --> 00:15:27,576
And there came a point where I
was so overwhelmed with work.
319
00:15:27,576 --> 00:15:28,536
I was getting burned out.
320
00:15:28,661 --> 00:15:29,261
I, I, mm-hmm.
321
00:15:29,261 --> 00:15:30,426
I, I mean, I was stressed.
322
00:15:30,426 --> 00:15:33,606
I couldn't, I had so many people
knocking on my door asking for things.
323
00:15:33,676 --> 00:15:38,346
When you're a single analyst in a
medium sized department, and, and all
324
00:15:38,346 --> 00:15:39,996
of a sudden you start to have success.
325
00:15:40,116 --> 00:15:40,206
Mm-hmm.
326
00:15:40,396 --> 00:15:42,076
In the area of crime analysis.
327
00:15:42,286 --> 00:15:46,426
Then everybody wants a piece and it's
like, okay, we need you to do this for
328
00:15:46,696 --> 00:15:49,006
our special investigations division.
329
00:15:49,006 --> 00:15:51,856
We need you to do this for the
Chief's City council meeting.
330
00:15:52,096 --> 00:15:56,296
We need you to do this because we've
got a regional burglary series.
331
00:15:56,326 --> 00:15:57,886
And it got to a point.
332
00:15:57,886 --> 00:15:59,926
There's no way one person can handle it.
333
00:15:59,926 --> 00:16:02,746
So, so we had to hire another analyst and.
334
00:16:03,106 --> 00:16:05,506
Truth be told, that's how we
ended up with a third analyst.
335
00:16:05,506 --> 00:16:06,766
It was the same situation.
336
00:16:06,766 --> 00:16:08,236
It is too much for two people.
337
00:16:08,266 --> 00:16:09,706
We need another one, we need another one.
338
00:16:09,946 --> 00:16:11,506
Which is a good problem to have.
339
00:16:11,626 --> 00:16:11,716
Mm-hmm.
340
00:16:12,016 --> 00:16:17,386
But I think the growing pains in that
are it often for the, the reality for
341
00:16:17,386 --> 00:16:22,416
analysts no matter how big or small your
agency is, it's often you have to get to
342
00:16:22,416 --> 00:16:28,366
that desperate situation before people
start to support you in growing and adding
343
00:16:28,366 --> 00:16:30,406
people and providing more resources.
344
00:16:30,526 --> 00:16:30,886
Yeah.
345
00:16:31,036 --> 00:16:33,406
You mentioned a medium sized department.
346
00:16:33,406 --> 00:16:35,176
It's back 2009.
347
00:16:36,061 --> 00:16:39,811
Do you remember how many officers
you had at, at Oceanside?
348
00:16:39,991 --> 00:16:46,261
Yeah, we're, and we're just, at that time
we were probably 160 to a hundred and
349
00:16:46,266 --> 00:16:46,556
mm-hmm.
350
00:16:46,891 --> 00:16:48,361
65 officers.
351
00:16:48,511 --> 00:16:52,421
And then we're not much, we haven't
grown that much more than that.
352
00:16:52,421 --> 00:16:55,961
We're, we're closer to 200 now,
but I would say we've always been
353
00:16:55,961 --> 00:16:59,231
around 200 officers with another
a hundred professional staff.
354
00:16:59,231 --> 00:17:00,821
So a department of 300.
355
00:17:00,856 --> 00:17:01,146
Yeah.
356
00:17:01,391 --> 00:17:05,441
And our city is a hundred, so O
Oceanside is a, is a good sized city.
357
00:17:05,441 --> 00:17:10,691
We're 185,000 people, so we're the
third largest city in San Diego County.
358
00:17:10,781 --> 00:17:10,871
Mm-hmm.
359
00:17:11,421 --> 00:17:15,771
We're sort of that, almost like a
halfway point between LA and San Diego
360
00:17:15,771 --> 00:17:17,421
right on the border of Camp Pendleton.
361
00:17:17,421 --> 00:17:19,141
So it's plenty busy here.
362
00:17:19,286 --> 00:17:22,556
We've always felt like we're a little
bit understaffed, under-resourced,
363
00:17:22,556 --> 00:17:25,526
especially in comparison to
some of our neighboring cities.
364
00:17:25,766 --> 00:17:25,856
Mm-hmm.
365
00:17:26,096 --> 00:17:29,776
But that's always kind of, I guess the
flip side is we've, we've always had to
366
00:17:29,776 --> 00:17:33,376
be creative and innovative with how we,
we deal with things 'cause we've never
367
00:17:33,376 --> 00:17:34,906
had all the resources that we need.
368
00:17:35,086 --> 00:17:35,356
Yeah.
369
00:17:35,746 --> 00:17:40,336
Now, do you feel that the Oceanside
has the typical crime problems
370
00:17:40,336 --> 00:17:42,016
or is there crime scenarios?
371
00:17:42,016 --> 00:17:44,236
Crime situations that are
unique to the police department?
372
00:17:44,326 --> 00:17:48,556
I feel like Oceanside is very
unique and it's what's made it a
373
00:17:48,556 --> 00:17:50,626
really fun place to be an analyst.
374
00:17:50,796 --> 00:17:54,876
As I mentioned, our geographic
location makes us a crossroads
375
00:17:54,876 --> 00:17:59,826
between two big metropolitan
areas being on Camp Pendleton.
376
00:18:00,661 --> 00:18:05,071
The border of Camp Pendleton makes
us a military town in a lot of ways.
377
00:18:05,761 --> 00:18:08,041
We are a tourist destination.
378
00:18:08,141 --> 00:18:09,401
We got people coming in.
379
00:18:09,551 --> 00:18:13,331
Our summer population makes
us substantially bigger.
380
00:18:13,431 --> 00:18:14,601
We've changed a lot.
381
00:18:14,751 --> 00:18:18,021
When I started, we had a,
a significant gang problem.
382
00:18:18,021 --> 00:18:21,691
We, at the time, we had 12 different
documented gangs just in Oceanside.
383
00:18:21,811 --> 00:18:23,161
This was all a surprise to me.
384
00:18:23,161 --> 00:18:25,321
I can tell you another story about
when I started, and this will
385
00:18:25,321 --> 00:18:26,401
kind of illustrate the point.
386
00:18:27,216 --> 00:18:30,846
When I showed up, this was, so
after I went to the homicide scene
387
00:18:30,846 --> 00:18:34,836
and then had enchiladas, I went
back to the lieutenant's office.
388
00:18:34,836 --> 00:18:37,926
This was probably the next day, and
she said, have you, have you found
389
00:18:37,926 --> 00:18:39,846
a place to live here in Oceanside?
390
00:18:39,936 --> 00:18:40,986
And I said, yeah.
391
00:18:40,986 --> 00:18:45,336
I said, my wife and I just put a deposit
down on an apartment, and it's, it's
392
00:18:45,336 --> 00:18:47,516
only a few blocks from the department.
393
00:18:47,516 --> 00:18:49,076
And it looks really nice.
394
00:18:49,076 --> 00:18:50,156
And it was really cheap.
395
00:18:50,696 --> 00:18:53,756
She says, oh, what's the name
of the apartment complex?
396
00:18:53,816 --> 00:18:56,066
And I tell her, and
she's like, oh, hell no.
397
00:18:56,066 --> 00:18:56,846
You're not living there.
398
00:18:57,416 --> 00:18:57,896
What do you mean?
399
00:18:58,436 --> 00:19:00,656
She says, that's a, she
says, that's a gang area.
400
00:19:00,696 --> 00:19:02,976
She says, the Crips run
that apartment complex.
401
00:19:03,301 --> 00:19:04,001
Oh, man.
402
00:19:04,401 --> 00:19:07,896
I said the, I said, the Crips like,
you mean like the Bloods and the Crips?
403
00:19:08,466 --> 00:19:09,876
She's like, yeah.
404
00:19:10,266 --> 00:19:13,176
And in my head I'm thinking,
oh, I thought Oceanside was like
405
00:19:13,176 --> 00:19:14,706
surfers and stuff like that.
406
00:19:14,706 --> 00:19:18,086
I'm like, I didn't realize
we had real gangs here.
407
00:19:18,206 --> 00:19:22,156
And so the best part of this
story is, is, is not that, but
408
00:19:22,156 --> 00:19:25,606
the best part of the story is she
says, get in my car, let's go.
409
00:19:25,636 --> 00:19:30,446
And my lieutenant during work hours,
we hopped in her car and we drove
410
00:19:30,446 --> 00:19:35,426
Carlsbad and we looked for apartments
free for, for a full afternoon.
411
00:19:35,456 --> 00:19:38,976
We went and stopped in and saw
what they had available and and,
412
00:19:39,036 --> 00:19:42,096
and she was determined that I was
gonna find a safe place to live.
413
00:19:42,196 --> 00:19:45,986
And I, and I think it's like a
I, I owe so much to this person
414
00:19:46,016 --> 00:19:47,276
'cause she gave me a chance.
415
00:19:47,336 --> 00:19:50,886
But you learn a lot through that too
when you become a supervisor that,
416
00:19:50,976 --> 00:19:54,576
you know those moments when you take a
personal interest in someone's life and
417
00:19:54,576 --> 00:20:00,296
you actually, like, even if it's like,
maybe that's not like how we're supposed
418
00:20:00,296 --> 00:20:04,746
to spend our work hours out apartment
hunting, man, I look back on that and
419
00:20:04,746 --> 00:20:08,386
I'm like, how lucky was that, that I had
somebody that was like get in my car,
420
00:20:08,386 --> 00:20:09,886
let's go find you a good place to live.
421
00:20:09,916 --> 00:20:11,746
So yeah, that was, what
was the lieutenant's
422
00:20:11,746 --> 00:20:12,076
name?
423
00:20:12,236 --> 00:20:16,296
That was Lieutenant Sheila
Potkin, Jack who, actually retired
424
00:20:16,296 --> 00:20:18,066
not long after I had started.
425
00:20:18,066 --> 00:20:21,516
So it was bittersweet because
I had a really great boss and
426
00:20:21,516 --> 00:20:22,926
then she left me all alone.
427
00:20:23,856 --> 00:20:24,366
Oh man.
428
00:20:24,516 --> 00:20:24,846
Yep.
429
00:20:24,906 --> 00:20:27,006
That's, that happens
at police departments.
430
00:20:27,006 --> 00:20:28,086
Either they retire
431
00:20:28,136 --> 00:20:28,946
or they rotate.
432
00:20:29,636 --> 00:20:29,696
Yeah.
433
00:20:29,696 --> 00:20:30,086
Right.
434
00:20:30,296 --> 00:20:35,266
But it seems like you're dealing with
a new captain or major regularly, so
435
00:20:35,356 --> 00:20:35,806
Oh yeah.
436
00:20:35,926 --> 00:20:38,296
We're, we are, we're
dealing with that now.
437
00:20:38,296 --> 00:20:38,716
It happens.
438
00:20:38,716 --> 00:20:42,876
So we we, we have come to understand
that's the that's part of the process.
439
00:20:42,996 --> 00:20:43,326
Yeah.
440
00:20:43,326 --> 00:20:44,826
And I was just and it's just.
441
00:20:45,186 --> 00:20:48,936
That's such a unique phenomenon,
I think with police departments.
442
00:20:48,961 --> 00:20:52,986
I, I, you probably see it in the
military, but I don't think it's
443
00:20:53,226 --> 00:20:58,176
common practice anywhere else where
you just have this rotation of
444
00:20:58,176 --> 00:21:00,456
middle management at an organization.
445
00:21:00,606 --> 00:21:00,696
Mm-hmm.
446
00:21:00,956 --> 00:21:02,516
It's not a common practice, right?
447
00:21:02,516 --> 00:21:07,006
You have, you have merging and you
have team building and unit building,
448
00:21:07,006 --> 00:21:13,456
and you have change in terms of the
hierarchical structure of an organization.
449
00:21:13,696 --> 00:21:18,436
But this whole idea of like, oh, all
right, we're gonna just rotate all these
450
00:21:18,436 --> 00:21:21,376
captains are all these majors right now.
451
00:21:21,381 --> 00:21:21,541
Mm-hmm.
452
00:21:21,841 --> 00:21:25,456
It, I just don't see that happening
anywhere else other than police
453
00:21:25,456 --> 00:21:26,986
department and maybe the military.
454
00:21:27,136 --> 00:21:28,396
No, I think you're right.
455
00:21:28,396 --> 00:21:32,356
And I think it's actually, this is
interesting because it's, I feel like this
456
00:21:32,356 --> 00:21:34,786
is sort of an under-discussed problem.
457
00:21:34,846 --> 00:21:38,446
It's an under-discussed topic and
it's, it's actually, personally,
458
00:21:38,446 --> 00:21:41,147
it's one of the things I have the
hardest time with because mm-hmm.
459
00:21:41,321 --> 00:21:45,016
As much as I move forward in my
career, as much as I grow and as
460
00:21:45,016 --> 00:21:49,156
much as I gain responsibility and
respect and all those things, when
461
00:21:49,156 --> 00:21:50,536
you work in a police department.
462
00:21:50,821 --> 00:21:54,361
You have the rotation that you're
talking about and new people come
463
00:21:54,361 --> 00:21:57,781
into your world, you cannot assume
that they understand your job.
464
00:21:57,931 --> 00:22:02,731
And then it's a kind of a brutal
reminder that even though you may have
465
00:22:02,731 --> 00:22:08,191
been in your spot for 10, 15, even 20
years, somebody's gonna come in there
466
00:22:08,191 --> 00:22:11,599
and you have to go back and you have
to start with crime analysis 1 0 1,
467
00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:13,249
and you have to say, here's what we do.
468
00:22:13,279 --> 00:22:16,549
Here's how we work, here's what we've
tried, here's what doesn't work.
469
00:22:16,609 --> 00:22:17,209
And.
470
00:22:17,524 --> 00:22:20,434
You have to kind of get
them on the same page.
471
00:22:20,434 --> 00:22:21,484
You gotta get them on board.
472
00:22:21,484 --> 00:22:23,314
You gotta get them to understand.
473
00:22:23,314 --> 00:22:24,784
You have to train them,
you have to train them.
474
00:22:24,784 --> 00:22:28,894
Actually, it's a, it's a huge
lift to educate that people
475
00:22:29,014 --> 00:22:30,734
that way because that's the key.
476
00:22:30,734 --> 00:22:35,414
That's the, that's, that's the key that
having a successful program is you gotta
477
00:22:35,414 --> 00:22:37,424
have everybody engaged and involved.
478
00:22:37,424 --> 00:22:41,294
You gotta have buy-in and, you may just
assume, like, yeah, I think everybody
479
00:22:41,294 --> 00:22:45,524
here gets it, but you're gonna have
people that come along that absolutely
480
00:22:45,524 --> 00:22:49,024
do not get it because you could call
it tunnel vision, but I think it's more
481
00:22:49,024 --> 00:22:53,704
like just the, the culture of police
work is that you focus on your area.
482
00:22:53,704 --> 00:22:57,754
Because if you try to focus on
every, everything, it's too much.
483
00:22:57,784 --> 00:22:59,344
It's, it's, we do too many things.
484
00:22:59,344 --> 00:23:00,544
We wear too many hats.
485
00:23:00,604 --> 00:23:03,544
So when I'm a school sergeant,
I'm focused on schools.
486
00:23:03,754 --> 00:23:07,364
When I'm when I'm a narcotics
detective, that's my world.
487
00:23:07,464 --> 00:23:10,104
We have to collaborate and
overlap and learn things and
488
00:23:10,314 --> 00:23:11,754
understand what people do.
489
00:23:12,294 --> 00:23:14,484
But you only have so
much space in your brain.
490
00:23:14,484 --> 00:23:15,924
So sometimes it's inevitable.
491
00:23:15,924 --> 00:23:18,504
You're gonna get somebody that's
like, Hey, I know you guys have
492
00:23:18,504 --> 00:23:21,084
been over here for years, but I
don't really know what you guys do.
493
00:23:21,474 --> 00:23:22,164
Just gonna happen.
494
00:23:22,314 --> 00:23:22,554
Yeah.
495
00:23:22,674 --> 00:23:23,004
So,
496
00:23:23,154 --> 00:23:25,074
so when do you become manager?
497
00:23:25,174 --> 00:23:28,264
I only actually got the title of manager.
498
00:23:28,539 --> 00:23:29,079
Recently.
499
00:23:29,229 --> 00:23:34,219
So but I would say I've been a manager
for years and, and when I changed my
500
00:23:34,219 --> 00:23:37,609
title, and these are, that's one of
those administrative things like, like,
501
00:23:37,609 --> 00:23:40,729
Hey, you think maybe we should change
the title of this position because
502
00:23:40,729 --> 00:23:42,409
I'm doing a lot of management stuff.
503
00:23:42,859 --> 00:23:44,959
And they're like, oh, you're
not a manager already.
504
00:23:45,139 --> 00:23:45,259
Like,
505
00:23:45,709 --> 00:23:46,129
yeah.
506
00:23:46,189 --> 00:23:48,229
So, so that finally got done.
507
00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:52,859
But I would, and I, and I actually, when
we went through that process, I went
508
00:23:52,859 --> 00:23:57,589
back to I would say it was probably,
gosh, it's gotta be like eight maybe.
509
00:23:58,214 --> 00:24:03,794
Maybe seven years ago, we had a very
dynamic chief who's now retired chief
510
00:24:03,794 --> 00:24:06,674
Fred Armijo, who came into the position.
511
00:24:06,674 --> 00:24:09,344
And it was a situation where
people were really glad about it.
512
00:24:09,374 --> 00:24:10,994
We had a chief that was gonna come in.
513
00:24:11,264 --> 00:24:14,354
He had a, a great rapport with everybody.
514
00:24:14,354 --> 00:24:15,494
He had great ideas.
515
00:24:15,494 --> 00:24:17,174
He wanted to implement new things.
516
00:24:17,684 --> 00:24:21,894
And he really looked at me and
said you are part of this team.
517
00:24:21,894 --> 00:24:23,754
I've considered you a manager for years.
518
00:24:23,904 --> 00:24:26,604
My expectation is that I'm
gonna give you management work.
519
00:24:26,604 --> 00:24:29,034
You're gonna be, you're gonna
have a seat at the table.
520
00:24:29,184 --> 00:24:33,819
And sometimes, like it takes a while
to get get that official stamp.
521
00:24:33,999 --> 00:24:34,419
Mm-hmm.
522
00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:34,819
But.
523
00:24:35,374 --> 00:24:38,884
Sometimes all it takes is to have the
right person in charge that understands
524
00:24:38,884 --> 00:24:43,714
your value, to be able to as an
analyst kind of rise to that level.
525
00:24:43,714 --> 00:24:47,224
So that, that's what I, if you were to
ask me how long I've been a manager.
526
00:24:47,284 --> 00:24:48,634
A manager, it's since then.
527
00:24:48,784 --> 00:24:48,904
Yeah.
528
00:24:49,234 --> 00:24:54,124
So I guess going back to when you
unofficially became a manager and
529
00:24:54,124 --> 00:24:58,744
started taking on more of the manager
roles, was that a difficult transition
530
00:24:58,744 --> 00:25:01,774
for you to go from analyst to manager?
531
00:25:01,924 --> 00:25:03,604
I think it was, yeah, it was.
532
00:25:03,634 --> 00:25:06,004
Now that you say that, I haven't
thought about that in a while, but I'll
533
00:25:06,004 --> 00:25:07,534
tell you what the difficult part was.
534
00:25:07,714 --> 00:25:10,864
The difficult part was letting go of
doing the things I really loved, and
535
00:25:10,864 --> 00:25:12,574
that's like the investigative stuff.
536
00:25:12,604 --> 00:25:18,894
So w working on the, homicide cases
and going to the meetings that are.
537
00:25:19,074 --> 00:25:23,574
Maybe it's like related to some
kind of special op or motorcycle
538
00:25:23,574 --> 00:25:25,164
gangs or like something cool.
539
00:25:25,214 --> 00:25:28,064
I, I still, I refuse to give it all up.
540
00:25:28,064 --> 00:25:31,274
I still try to keep my
hands a little bit dirty.
541
00:25:31,394 --> 00:25:34,194
Like I really, I've been
trying to learn lately.
542
00:25:34,564 --> 00:25:35,309
I'm working at.
543
00:25:35,804 --> 00:25:41,904
Genetic genealogy case, which I'm
slowly kind of gaining some ground on.
544
00:25:41,964 --> 00:25:45,684
So, I never wanna give, give it
all up, but there was a hard thing
545
00:25:45,684 --> 00:25:49,668
where , I'm getting asked to do
stuff that is not the most fun.
546
00:25:49,828 --> 00:25:52,918
I recognize that it's
important, but it was difficult.
547
00:25:52,918 --> 00:25:55,018
Like, man, I miss the days
when I got to be an analyst.
548
00:25:55,018 --> 00:25:58,168
I miss those days when I could
just come in and nobody was
549
00:25:58,228 --> 00:26:02,278
calling me with emergencies
related to personnel or time cards.
550
00:26:02,378 --> 00:26:06,638
I can come in and if it was an emergency,
it was like, Hey, like we gotta, we got
551
00:26:06,638 --> 00:26:09,728
a suspect that we gotta find that's,
that's the kind of emergency I liked.
552
00:26:09,728 --> 00:26:09,788
Yeah.
553
00:26:09,848 --> 00:26:11,038
So I missed that.
554
00:26:11,128 --> 00:26:11,518
Yeah.
555
00:26:11,728 --> 00:26:15,368
So we, we were talking briefly,
before we hit record here, and
556
00:26:15,368 --> 00:26:18,698
you had mentioned , you have a
pretty interesting hiring record.
557
00:26:19,013 --> 00:26:20,243
There at the department.
558
00:26:20,243 --> 00:26:24,683
Is it, so you mentioned that everybody
that you hired has not, never left.
559
00:26:24,863 --> 00:26:26,573
That is true, yes.
560
00:26:26,793 --> 00:26:30,893
We currently have grown to
have three full-time analysts.
561
00:26:30,893 --> 00:26:34,733
We also now have a digital
forensics analyst as a part of a
562
00:26:34,733 --> 00:26:37,313
newer digital forensics program.
563
00:26:37,433 --> 00:26:39,473
We are probably.
564
00:26:40,113 --> 00:26:44,223
Gonna look on expanding even
further with the deployment
565
00:26:44,223 --> 00:26:45,573
of a real-time crime center.
566
00:26:45,993 --> 00:26:50,103
But I do, I, I'm proud of the
fact that, yeah, we, we do have a
567
00:26:50,103 --> 00:26:53,853
strong record for bringing people
in and having them stay here.
568
00:26:53,853 --> 00:26:58,843
So we are both of our, our other two
analysts have been here for over 15 years.
569
00:26:58,843 --> 00:26:58,933
Nice.
570
00:26:59,053 --> 00:27:02,983
So they have a ton of
experience, a ton of respect.
571
00:27:02,983 --> 00:27:06,523
And I think the best part, part of that
is they still work as hard as ever.
572
00:27:06,553 --> 00:27:11,523
So they still it, it's really, the timing
of that question is really interesting
573
00:27:11,523 --> 00:27:16,393
because yesterday they run their own
shows they, they know what they're doing.
574
00:27:16,393 --> 00:27:18,923
I do not have to manage them too closely.
575
00:27:18,933 --> 00:27:22,473
Their work product is reliable and
they, they've been around long enough to
576
00:27:22,893 --> 00:27:24,573
know when they need to come to see me.
577
00:27:24,693 --> 00:27:29,193
But I sat down with my team yesterday
because we're all getting so busy that
578
00:27:29,193 --> 00:27:30,963
it's easy to take your eye off the ball.
579
00:27:31,083 --> 00:27:34,533
And I actually had to have a meeting
where I said, Hey guys, I think
580
00:27:34,623 --> 00:27:38,643
we have to figure out how to get
our eyeballs back on crime trends.
581
00:27:38,733 --> 00:27:39,753
We're getting so many.
582
00:27:41,058 --> 00:27:44,238
Our way, we're, we're asked to
develop a real time crime center.
583
00:27:44,538 --> 00:27:50,338
We're dealing with intel responsibilities
related to protests, whatever it might be.
584
00:27:50,338 --> 00:27:53,818
We have got a lot of things that
people are asking for, but I think
585
00:27:53,818 --> 00:27:57,778
we have to actually get back to, I.
Making sure that we're keeping track
586
00:27:57,928 --> 00:28:01,018
of crime series and crime patterns,
and even if it's just a commercial
587
00:28:01,018 --> 00:28:02,698
burglary and how can we do that?
588
00:28:02,698 --> 00:28:03,838
And it was a great conversation.
589
00:28:03,838 --> 00:28:06,208
It was constructive and it was
like a reminder like, Hey, let's
590
00:28:06,208 --> 00:28:07,528
not forget what our job is.
591
00:28:07,678 --> 00:28:11,898
But the thing about that is it's,
it's just, it's, I was kind of a wow
592
00:28:11,898 --> 00:28:16,868
moment in the sense you can, you can
be in a place for a really long time.
593
00:28:16,898 --> 00:28:20,468
You can have the most experienced
analyst, and sometimes you just need
594
00:28:20,468 --> 00:28:25,818
to like sit down and touch base and
kind of say to each other, Hey, how
595
00:28:25,818 --> 00:28:27,588
do we, how do we do our jobs better?
596
00:28:27,588 --> 00:28:28,338
We're not perfect.
597
00:28:28,418 --> 00:28:31,648
We're still trying to solve a lot
of the same problems that we've
598
00:28:31,648 --> 00:28:32,788
always been trying to solve.
599
00:28:32,928 --> 00:28:36,598
And I think our answers get
better and better, but even now we
600
00:28:36,598 --> 00:28:37,948
still haven't figured it all out.
601
00:28:38,098 --> 00:28:38,248
Hmm.
602
00:28:38,698 --> 00:28:41,238
So I gotta ask, what is your secret?
603
00:28:41,808 --> 00:28:46,998
Hiring because that's, as I said,
that's pretty impressive that you have
604
00:28:46,998 --> 00:28:51,678
such a, that everybody that you've
hired is still with the department.
605
00:28:52,038 --> 00:28:55,008
Do you have a certain philosophy
or is there something that
606
00:28:55,008 --> 00:28:56,418
you look for when hiring?
607
00:28:56,568 --> 00:28:57,438
Well, I don't think it's
608
00:28:57,438 --> 00:28:59,238
like a hiring approach because
609
00:28:59,328 --> 00:28:59,598
mm-hmm.
610
00:28:59,668 --> 00:29:03,838
In our city, a lot of the hiring
tasks are delegated to human
611
00:29:03,838 --> 00:29:07,468
resources and we feel like we don't
have enough involvement in it.
612
00:29:08,488 --> 00:29:12,418
That's always like, Hey, who do we get to
talk to today as that we're gonna hire?
613
00:29:12,498 --> 00:29:16,338
But so I would say that
it has a lot more to do.
614
00:29:16,598 --> 00:29:21,188
With our department, if I was to talk
about what we've done right in building
615
00:29:21,188 --> 00:29:27,868
a crime analysis program the foundation
we laid for success was to try to
616
00:29:27,868 --> 00:29:32,428
do as much as possible to make our
program as collaborative as possible.
617
00:29:32,428 --> 00:29:37,288
So to make it a two way street instead
of a one way street, to not overload
618
00:29:37,288 --> 00:29:41,998
our analysts with here's a request,
here's your information, but okay.
619
00:29:42,048 --> 00:29:46,648
If there's a problem happening that
our neighborhood police team can deal
620
00:29:46,648 --> 00:29:50,908
with, how can the analyst provide
something to be used in the field?
621
00:29:50,908 --> 00:29:53,338
And then how can those cops
come back into our office?
622
00:29:53,648 --> 00:29:58,958
Tell us what they found and how can
they make our product even better
623
00:29:59,048 --> 00:30:00,788
by bringing information back.
624
00:30:00,908 --> 00:30:02,288
So we've always tried to do that.
625
00:30:02,288 --> 00:30:07,028
We've always tried to make sure that in
our investigations division, that our,
626
00:30:07,148 --> 00:30:08,768
our analysts have a front row seat.
627
00:30:08,888 --> 00:30:14,688
Currently both of our analysts sit in
detective base, so they're parts a part
628
00:30:14,688 --> 00:30:19,048
of the eyes and ears in relation to
investigations as they're unfolding.
629
00:30:19,168 --> 00:30:23,578
And I think it's super important
to have a setup where your analyst
630
00:30:23,638 --> 00:30:27,328
is among the first to know and not
always the last to know, because
631
00:30:27,328 --> 00:30:30,028
that is not gonna sustain itself.
632
00:30:30,058 --> 00:30:31,228
Your analyst is gonna get.
633
00:30:31,533 --> 00:30:34,023
Completely burned out and
that's why they're gonna leave.
634
00:30:34,023 --> 00:30:34,833
They're gonna leave.
635
00:30:35,163 --> 00:30:36,783
If they say, you know what?
636
00:30:36,843 --> 00:30:40,053
I worked my butt off and I never
got the respect I deserved.
637
00:30:40,413 --> 00:30:45,393
I work so hard, I give all these people
useful intel and then they don't even
638
00:30:45,393 --> 00:30:47,133
tell me when they've made an arrest.
639
00:30:47,403 --> 00:30:50,973
Those are the things that cause people
to leave police departments and go
640
00:30:50,973 --> 00:30:53,013
look for jobs in the private sector.
641
00:30:53,163 --> 00:30:53,643
You know.
642
00:30:53,998 --> 00:30:57,178
Nobody stays in this job for the pay.
643
00:30:57,248 --> 00:30:59,158
My, people, they have
not stayed for the pay.
644
00:30:59,218 --> 00:31:02,368
I can tell you that they've stayed because
they get to be a part of something.
645
00:31:02,398 --> 00:31:06,298
They stayed because they have a
ton of respect from their peers.
646
00:31:06,388 --> 00:31:08,378
They, stayed because if
there's a murder, if.
647
00:31:08,744 --> 00:31:12,534
my Crimes of Violence analyst gets
a phone call hey can you come in?
648
00:31:12,674 --> 00:31:13,634
Can you help us with this?
649
00:31:13,634 --> 00:31:14,714
We got a situation.
650
00:31:14,774 --> 00:31:19,104
If we have a critical situation in
the city, we've got some kind of a,
651
00:31:19,379 --> 00:31:23,494
a political situation, our analysts
are a part of the conversation so that
652
00:31:23,704 --> 00:31:27,184
we don't have someone else making a
decision of here's what you're gonna do.
653
00:31:27,184 --> 00:31:27,274
Mm-hmm.
654
00:31:27,514 --> 00:31:31,204
We're invited into the process
saying, Hey, what can we do?
655
00:31:31,204 --> 00:31:32,194
What can we do together?
656
00:31:32,224 --> 00:31:34,504
Well, I can, I can help
with this, I can do this.
657
00:31:34,504 --> 00:31:34,864
Great.
658
00:31:35,014 --> 00:31:39,434
And then if we are fortunate
enough to find success they
659
00:31:39,434 --> 00:31:40,754
don't always get the recognition.
660
00:31:40,784 --> 00:31:43,394
I'm, I could tell you that
they don't that's, that's true.
661
00:31:43,464 --> 00:31:47,094
But they do go home at night knowing
that they were a part of the solution.
662
00:31:47,244 --> 00:31:47,484
Hmm.
663
00:31:47,994 --> 00:31:50,274
Now is that, do you think
that's the reason you stayed?
664
00:31:50,424 --> 00:31:52,614
I mean, obviously you've
been there 20 years.
665
00:31:52,614 --> 00:31:55,044
You, there's certainly had to be other.
666
00:31:55,834 --> 00:31:59,524
Opportunities either at a different
police department or as you
667
00:31:59,524 --> 00:32:00,694
mentioned, the private sector.
668
00:32:00,844 --> 00:32:05,294
Yeah, I would say that's a, that's a
big reason that I stayed is it almost
669
00:32:05,294 --> 00:32:09,639
sounds corny to say, yeah, it's the
people, they're like family like mm-hmm.
670
00:32:09,774 --> 00:32:12,984
You hear that from, from people
who stay in one place a long time.
671
00:32:13,074 --> 00:32:15,174
But the fact of the matter is, it's true.
672
00:32:15,174 --> 00:32:18,864
I mean, I've made the best friends
that I have in the world I've made
673
00:32:18,864 --> 00:32:23,484
in this department there are a lot
of people that have now retired that
674
00:32:23,544 --> 00:32:26,664
I'm very close with and I feel like
I'm like the last holdout almost.
675
00:32:26,664 --> 00:32:27,354
I'm still here.
676
00:32:28,744 --> 00:32:28,865
You're lucky.
677
00:32:29,794 --> 00:32:30,424
So, yeah.
678
00:32:30,424 --> 00:32:31,744
What are you, what are
you still doing there?
679
00:32:31,744 --> 00:32:33,664
So, and it's, it's true though.
680
00:32:33,714 --> 00:32:39,024
The, those kinds of things, they
really do, I think, make the difference
681
00:32:39,024 --> 00:32:40,494
when it comes to those decisions.
682
00:32:40,494 --> 00:32:42,834
Like, yes, I could go somewhere
and make a little bit more money.
683
00:32:43,334 --> 00:32:45,974
Yes, I could go somewhere and maybe my, I.
684
00:32:46,244 --> 00:32:48,344
My LinkedIn page would
look a little cooler.
685
00:32:48,884 --> 00:32:52,634
Like I, for sure, and, and don't
think I haven't thought about it.
686
00:32:52,664 --> 00:32:54,314
I've actually, I, I'll
come out and say it.
687
00:32:54,314 --> 00:32:57,254
I've applied for jobs, I've gotten
burned out and said, I don't
688
00:32:57,254 --> 00:32:58,424
know if I can do this anymore.
689
00:32:58,514 --> 00:33:02,109
But then when you pursue
those, I. Those other options.
690
00:33:02,139 --> 00:33:05,439
And then you take a look at what
you have and you and I think
691
00:33:05,439 --> 00:33:07,209
about the situation I have here.
692
00:33:07,659 --> 00:33:11,259
I think first and foremost, I
could never go to another police
693
00:33:11,259 --> 00:33:13,479
department and have what I have here.
694
00:33:13,719 --> 00:33:17,929
I mean, you talk about when I was
given the title of manager, yes,
695
00:33:17,929 --> 00:33:21,529
the title was is is on my name tag.
696
00:33:21,529 --> 00:33:25,699
But the truth of the matter is it
took a long time to, to work my way
697
00:33:25,699 --> 00:33:30,509
up, to gain the respect, to gain
the trust, to to be a part of things
698
00:33:30,569 --> 00:33:32,159
that are happening in this city.
699
00:33:32,219 --> 00:33:36,839
And I think that's the exciting thing
in my career now, is I'm not just
700
00:33:36,899 --> 00:33:38,399
working from the analyst office.
701
00:33:38,399 --> 00:33:39,359
I'm a part of a team.
702
00:33:39,509 --> 00:33:43,589
We have a brand new chief, we've
got a, a fairly new assistant chief,
703
00:33:43,859 --> 00:33:46,979
we've got a whole fleet of new
lieutenants, and these are my peers.
704
00:33:46,979 --> 00:33:51,389
We have kind of been in the trenches
together and now there's an approach
705
00:33:51,389 --> 00:33:53,509
that it's an exciting time in Oceanside.
706
00:33:53,539 --> 00:33:56,049
I mean, if you're out there and
you're like, this guy sounds like a
707
00:33:56,199 --> 00:33:58,029
commercial for come visit Oceanside.
708
00:33:58,419 --> 00:33:59,679
It's, it's actually true.
709
00:33:59,709 --> 00:34:01,869
I mean, this city is so different.
710
00:34:01,869 --> 00:34:04,959
I used to never go to the beach
here because I was like, I'm not
711
00:34:04,959 --> 00:34:06,669
gonna be caught dead out there now.
712
00:34:06,819 --> 00:34:11,789
Now it's a, we got I was at a, a, a
gala event with my wife last weekend
713
00:34:11,789 --> 00:34:15,839
at the Seabird Hotel with a view of the
pier, and this is a different place.
714
00:34:15,889 --> 00:34:19,729
This is actually a really nice place
to be and I take a lot of pride.
715
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:23,779
And being a small part of that and
seeing a change in a community and a
716
00:34:23,779 --> 00:34:28,829
town and that it's a safer place to be,
that it's a nicer place to spend time
717
00:34:28,829 --> 00:34:30,599
that you can take your family downtown.
718
00:34:31,029 --> 00:34:32,409
I love going down to the harbor.
719
00:34:32,409 --> 00:34:35,919
I've always loved like taking a
paddleboard out there, going fishing.
720
00:34:36,059 --> 00:34:41,189
So I've grown to love where I live,
but I'm proud of the fact that I'm a
721
00:34:41,189 --> 00:34:46,529
part of the change that's happened and
it's made me really glad that I stayed.
722
00:34:46,649 --> 00:34:50,419
I mean, I kind of think about like
Tony Gwen only played with one team.
723
00:34:50,479 --> 00:34:55,049
He played with the Padres, but man,
thank God that he did like you're
724
00:34:55,049 --> 00:34:57,839
as a baseball fan, you're like,
that would've been terrible if he'd
725
00:34:57,839 --> 00:34:58,889
gone and played for another team.
726
00:34:58,889 --> 00:35:04,229
Because look at how valuable
he was in this town and what.
727
00:35:04,604 --> 00:35:06,784
Means to I'm sure his family mm-hmm.
728
00:35:07,324 --> 00:35:10,834
That he was a part of something that
happened and like I'm definitely
729
00:35:10,834 --> 00:35:14,414
like, I definitely don't have
a swing like Tony Gwen, but I
730
00:35:14,414 --> 00:35:15,914
kind of think of the same thing.
731
00:35:15,914 --> 00:35:19,424
Like when I look back on my
career, I'm gonna have no regrets.
732
00:35:19,424 --> 00:35:21,824
I'm gonna be glad that
I, that I stuck it out.
733
00:35:21,824 --> 00:35:25,574
I stuck it out through some hard times,
and I'm gonna be proud of the fact that
734
00:35:25,624 --> 00:35:27,304
I was able, actually, it was a benefit.
735
00:35:27,304 --> 00:35:30,694
It was a, it was a privilege to
stay in one place that that's
736
00:35:30,694 --> 00:35:31,624
how I'm gonna look at it.
737
00:35:36,884 --> 00:35:40,664
Hi, this is Carolyn Cassidy and I'd
like to give some information to you.
738
00:35:40,724 --> 00:35:45,434
We've all watched shows on TV where
someone comes home and there's been
739
00:35:45,494 --> 00:35:50,354
a break in, their house is disrupted,
and possibly items have been stolen.
740
00:35:50,384 --> 00:35:53,084
Someone gets on the phone
and call nine one one help.
741
00:35:53,114 --> 00:35:53,864
Please come.
742
00:35:53,924 --> 00:35:54,764
I've been robbed.
743
00:35:54,824 --> 00:35:56,354
Okay, let's clarify this.
744
00:35:56,444 --> 00:35:57,674
You have not been robbed.
745
00:35:57,704 --> 00:35:59,204
You have been fur gold.
746
00:35:59,484 --> 00:36:01,644
A robbery is a person to person crime.
747
00:36:01,734 --> 00:36:03,834
A burglary is a property crime.
748
00:36:03,864 --> 00:36:06,924
If you are not home, when someone
comes in and takes something
749
00:36:06,924 --> 00:36:09,324
from you, you have been burgled.
750
00:36:09,324 --> 00:36:11,934
There has not been a robbery.
751
00:36:12,354 --> 00:36:13,164
Hashtag.
752
00:36:13,224 --> 00:36:15,114
You were burgled, not robbed.
753
00:36:16,379 --> 00:36:21,779
So this is Sam and I wanna let you know
that it's okay to talk to strangers,
754
00:36:21,929 --> 00:36:28,049
obviously not if you are four or if
you're walking alone at night or in
755
00:36:28,049 --> 00:36:32,399
the woods, but in general, if you're
just out in your day-to-day life or
756
00:36:32,399 --> 00:36:36,839
you're traveling or whatever, talk
to somebody, talk to strangers.
757
00:36:36,839 --> 00:36:39,899
It makes you a more interesting
person because it gives you
758
00:36:39,899 --> 00:36:41,819
more perspective on life.
759
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,819
Everyone is walking around
with an interesting story.
760
00:36:45,109 --> 00:36:48,169
So many people will
defy your expectations.
761
00:36:48,499 --> 00:36:51,709
When you, uh, you see someone and
you make certain assumptions about
762
00:36:51,709 --> 00:36:55,369
them, whether they're conscious
or unconscious, I love the moment
763
00:36:55,369 --> 00:36:56,779
when you realize you were wrong.
764
00:36:56,809 --> 00:37:01,789
It's a great feeling and uh, I think
it makes your life richer in general.
765
00:37:02,119 --> 00:37:06,349
You know, if you're too shy, then
maybe just read Humans of New York.
766
00:37:06,349 --> 00:37:09,259
That might help you to, to understand
other people's experiences.
767
00:37:09,259 --> 00:37:13,309
But I'm just here to say
don't not talk to strangers.
768
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,710
Well, let's move on to your
analyst badge story then.
769
00:37:21,860 --> 00:37:25,310
And for those that maybe knew this
show, the analyst badge story is the cr
770
00:37:25,310 --> 00:37:28,130
defining case or project that's you work.
771
00:37:28,190 --> 00:37:30,650
And it's a little bit of
a transition, I realize.
772
00:37:30,650 --> 00:37:35,490
Just a, a nice pumped up speech that
you just gave of Overtron side, but it's
773
00:37:35,490 --> 00:37:42,120
your analyst badge story deals with it's
2020 and your department's dealing with.
774
00:37:42,150 --> 00:37:44,460
The George Floyd protests.
775
00:37:44,580 --> 00:37:44,910
Yes.
776
00:37:44,910 --> 00:37:48,570
I think that's a, it's a good time for
a segue into this when you're talking
777
00:37:48,570 --> 00:37:54,270
about how communities change and how
there are pivotal moments that kind
778
00:37:54,270 --> 00:37:58,570
of set the course for what direction
a police department is gonna go and
779
00:37:58,570 --> 00:38:01,960
what a community and their relations
with that community is gonna look like.
780
00:38:02,290 --> 00:38:07,310
And when you asked me this question,
I immediately thought of, of 2020.
781
00:38:07,370 --> 00:38:12,470
It's during COVID and we're seeing
a situation develop in response
782
00:38:12,470 --> 00:38:14,030
to the George Floyd incident.
783
00:38:14,180 --> 00:38:17,270
And protests are basically
starting to sweep.
784
00:38:17,650 --> 00:38:18,550
Across the country.
785
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:18,640
Mm-hmm.
786
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:23,390
And we knew at the time that it was
more than just a few protests that
787
00:38:23,390 --> 00:38:27,080
it was really a movement that was
developing and we knew it was gonna
788
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:28,490
affect us, it was gonna touch us.
789
00:38:28,490 --> 00:38:30,050
We didn't know what that
was gonna look like.
790
00:38:31,010 --> 00:38:34,730
And you started to see protests in
the bigger cities we started to see
791
00:38:34,730 --> 00:38:38,810
indications that people locally were
gonna start to organize their own events.
792
00:38:39,020 --> 00:38:42,440
Even though we saw, saw some things
coming, I don't think we were
793
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:43,970
really expecting quite what we saw.
794
00:38:43,970 --> 00:38:48,935
I, we probably had our, our first protest,
probably we had who knows, 35, 40, 50
795
00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:52,520
people gather outside city hall and.
796
00:38:52,925 --> 00:38:55,385
We kept an eye on it, but
we didn't have any issues.
797
00:38:55,655 --> 00:38:57,785
And we probably thought, oh,
good, we got through that.
798
00:38:57,845 --> 00:39:00,035
Well, we didn't know at the time.
799
00:39:00,035 --> 00:39:01,055
We were just getting started.
800
00:39:01,085 --> 00:39:06,485
And I, I still remember at that time I
think I ended up working 14 days in a
801
00:39:06,485 --> 00:39:12,965
row because of how everything kicked off
and how everything grew and got bigger.
802
00:39:13,055 --> 00:39:18,165
And I was working closely at the time
with our investigations Lieutenant,
803
00:39:18,165 --> 00:39:20,205
who's now , our chief chief Aldino.
804
00:39:20,385 --> 00:39:25,345
And it was our job to try to do
our best to figure out what we were
805
00:39:25,345 --> 00:39:29,335
dealing with, how were we gonna
deploy resources to manage this.
806
00:39:29,395 --> 00:39:33,595
And I think most important of all, and
this is kind of why I think of it as a
807
00:39:33,595 --> 00:39:37,855
badge moment, was there was a decision
that was gonna be made in terms of how we
808
00:39:37,855 --> 00:39:40,765
were gonna approach it, how are we gonna
handle it, how are we gonna respond to
809
00:39:40,765 --> 00:39:42,715
it, and what that was gonna look like.
810
00:39:42,895 --> 00:39:44,995
There was two approaches you could take.
811
00:39:45,175 --> 00:39:48,715
You could show up with your,
your riot team, and we call
812
00:39:48,715 --> 00:39:49,915
that our mobile field force.
813
00:39:49,975 --> 00:39:52,225
You can make, draw a firm line.
814
00:39:52,225 --> 00:39:55,945
You can lay down the law and you can
show people whose boss or you can do
815
00:39:55,945 --> 00:40:01,195
your best to understand where people
might be coming from, even if it's
816
00:40:01,345 --> 00:40:03,505
targeted at you as a police department.
817
00:40:03,655 --> 00:40:09,005
And you can do your best to minimize
or diffuse, I guess is a better word,
818
00:40:09,005 --> 00:40:12,075
diffuse any conflicts or tense situations.
819
00:40:12,175 --> 00:40:17,305
I think most importantly is you can
decide how that's gonna be received
820
00:40:17,365 --> 00:40:21,085
and what that's going to look
like and how that's gonna reflect.
821
00:40:21,465 --> 00:40:22,545
On your police department.
822
00:40:22,635 --> 00:40:28,785
And we decided that a best approach was
to do whatever we could to engage with
823
00:40:28,785 --> 00:40:33,135
the community, do whatever we could
to understand people's motivations
824
00:40:33,285 --> 00:40:37,875
and most of all , in that moment,
I think we understood that there
825
00:40:37,875 --> 00:40:42,015
was an important decision to make
and it was how can we handle this
826
00:40:42,015 --> 00:40:47,845
situation to minimize and diffuse any
conflicts any problem but more than
827
00:40:47,845 --> 00:40:49,885
anything, how can we keep people safe?
828
00:40:50,065 --> 00:40:51,115
That was the number one job.
829
00:40:51,385 --> 00:40:54,385
I think that was the most important
thing that we recognized in that moment
830
00:40:54,565 --> 00:40:59,065
was at the end of the day, no matter
how you felt about the arguments and
831
00:40:59,065 --> 00:41:02,455
the positions and the stance that
people were taking, what was our job?
832
00:41:02,455 --> 00:41:03,775
Our job is to keep people safe.
833
00:41:03,925 --> 00:41:04,015
Mm-hmm.
834
00:41:04,255 --> 00:41:07,735
So in order to do that, the thing that
we had to have in place was we had
835
00:41:07,735 --> 00:41:09,535
to have intel ahead of the protests.
836
00:41:09,625 --> 00:41:14,215
And the reason that this is my badge
moment is because this is where all the
837
00:41:14,215 --> 00:41:17,455
work over the previous 15 years paid off.
838
00:41:17,515 --> 00:41:21,865
We had developed a program where
we had a seat at the table where.
839
00:41:22,370 --> 00:41:26,300
People trusted our analysts
where we knew how to network
840
00:41:26,300 --> 00:41:28,460
with other outside agencies.
841
00:41:28,530 --> 00:41:33,060
We knew what our jobs would be
when this moment came around.
842
00:41:33,060 --> 00:41:36,990
We didn't have to try to panic and
figure out, well, yeah, we gotta
843
00:41:36,990 --> 00:41:38,850
come up with a response, by the way.
844
00:41:38,850 --> 00:41:42,000
We're gonna need to find somebody
to watch social media, to tell us
845
00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:45,540
who our organizers are, how many
people we're gonna have at a protest.
846
00:41:45,630 --> 00:41:49,650
So we already had that in place
and we just jumped into our roles.
847
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:54,670
I really feel like we came out of that
whole year, that whole situation on top.
848
00:41:54,805 --> 00:41:59,775
The moment I remember most of all was one
of our larger protests was kicking off.
849
00:41:59,835 --> 00:42:04,245
And in this particular protest,
it was unplanned, but the, the,
850
00:42:04,245 --> 00:42:06,165
the protesters decided to march.
851
00:42:06,195 --> 00:42:09,405
So they left their spot and
they started to parade down
852
00:42:09,535 --> 00:42:11,125
coast Highway through Oceanside.
853
00:42:11,125 --> 00:42:16,975
And it was probably well over 500 people,
probably closer to 800, a thousand
854
00:42:16,975 --> 00:42:18,985
people are marching through the streets.
855
00:42:19,075 --> 00:42:22,675
So obviously you suddenly have traffic
concerns, you've got safety concerns,
856
00:42:22,745 --> 00:42:25,535
this is another one of those moments
where, well, how do you handle it?
857
00:42:25,565 --> 00:42:30,035
Well, this was not planned, but next thing
I know, our motor officers are basically
858
00:42:30,035 --> 00:42:32,015
providing a police escort down the street.
859
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:37,360
It was incredible, the look and see
people that were holding signs that were
860
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,050
full of profanity, that were blasting,
police departments are receiving
861
00:42:41,050 --> 00:42:42,790
a police escort to keep them safe.
862
00:42:42,820 --> 00:42:45,460
And I felt like that was the
moment where we rose above.
863
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,630
We said, we're gonna focus on our jobs.
864
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:50,930
We're not gonna let politics
or our personal opinions get in
865
00:42:51,140 --> 00:42:52,550
in the way of what we're doing.
866
00:42:52,730 --> 00:42:53,900
The community saw it.
867
00:42:54,020 --> 00:42:55,400
The microscope was on us.
868
00:42:55,925 --> 00:42:57,905
Everybody was watching, and we knew that.
869
00:42:58,175 --> 00:43:03,525
And it really changed the narrative
to we're not protesting Oceanside
870
00:43:03,525 --> 00:43:07,605
PD necessarily, but we want
to talk about police reforms.
871
00:43:07,755 --> 00:43:11,715
And on the heels of that, we had people in
place that said, okay, well you know what?
872
00:43:11,835 --> 00:43:14,955
How about after the protests, we sit
down at the table, let's get some,
873
00:43:15,015 --> 00:43:17,145
let's sit down and, and talk about this.
874
00:43:17,145 --> 00:43:19,755
And because maybe we can admit
that maybe we're not perfect.
875
00:43:19,755 --> 00:43:22,935
Maybe there's some things that we
can change in policing and we can do
876
00:43:22,935 --> 00:43:24,645
better, but we're willing to listen.
877
00:43:24,645 --> 00:43:29,115
But we recognize that, that there's a
time that people may wanna get their
878
00:43:29,115 --> 00:43:30,735
voice out there, but there's also.
879
00:43:31,170 --> 00:43:34,320
A way to, to handle it so that we
can turn it into a positive, we
880
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,090
can build bonds with the community.
881
00:43:36,090 --> 00:43:37,680
We can turn a negative into a positive.
882
00:43:37,740 --> 00:43:42,060
And I really feel like we did that in that
moment, and I got to be a part of that.
883
00:43:42,180 --> 00:43:43,290
And that's my badge moment.
884
00:43:44,220 --> 00:43:44,280
Yeah.
885
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,190
I, I think it's interesting that the
analyst role in this story, if you're
886
00:43:49,190 --> 00:43:51,140
in a situation where there's a protest,
887
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:55,970
The role of the analyst in that
situation may be, okay, we're gonna
888
00:43:55,970 --> 00:44:00,790
be identifying people in the crowd and
we need to know if they're dangerous.
889
00:44:00,940 --> 00:44:06,040
And so the analyst is putting on the
hat, identifying people and running
890
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,640
background checks and starting
to identify people in the crowd.
891
00:44:09,730 --> 00:44:15,670
And I think that's usually the role that
may, maybe most people would imagine
892
00:44:15,670 --> 00:44:17,740
an analyst would do in that situation.
893
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,680
I think you're close to
describing what that role is.
894
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,280
I think one thing, and this is the
reason that I believe you have to
895
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:30,880
have a solid foundation going into a
situation like this, is you're, you're
896
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,190
doing your best to assess a threat.
897
00:44:33,220 --> 00:44:33,310
Mm-hmm.
898
00:44:33,550 --> 00:44:37,810
You're doing your best to identify
activists and organizers for the
899
00:44:37,810 --> 00:44:39,670
purpose of keeping them safe.
900
00:44:39,670 --> 00:44:42,220
But you have to remember, you're
not investigating criminals.
901
00:44:42,270 --> 00:44:45,990
It's a very fine line between
how you run people and what you
902
00:44:45,990 --> 00:44:47,760
look for and what you dig up.
903
00:44:47,790 --> 00:44:52,110
And it's perfectly fair to approach
this and say, we're gonna do
904
00:44:52,110 --> 00:44:54,690
our best to make sure there's
nobody that's gonna be violent.
905
00:44:54,780 --> 00:44:57,540
But if I recognize somebody that's.
906
00:44:57,925 --> 00:44:58,765
Not a threat.
907
00:44:58,825 --> 00:45:02,845
I have to have the ability and the
experience to hand that name over
908
00:45:02,845 --> 00:45:07,405
to one of our officers and say, you
know what, here's somebody that we've
909
00:45:07,405 --> 00:45:10,585
identified, not because we think they're
dangerous, but see if you can talk
910
00:45:10,585 --> 00:45:15,055
to this person and give them a call
before the protest happens, so that if
911
00:45:15,055 --> 00:45:18,895
they need our services, if they feel
like something is getting outta hand
912
00:45:18,955 --> 00:45:20,965
during the protest, they can call us.
913
00:45:21,015 --> 00:45:21,855
We still handle that.
914
00:45:22,255 --> 00:45:26,005
The same way we try to get in touch
with organizers and we say, say, Hey,
915
00:45:26,275 --> 00:45:30,185
can we trade cell phone numbers so
that when this event starts you can
916
00:45:30,185 --> 00:45:34,125
call us and we can call you and we just
need to lay down the rules and, and do
917
00:45:34,125 --> 00:45:35,595
your best to keep your people in line.
918
00:45:35,595 --> 00:45:37,845
But we recognize you don't
have control over everything.
919
00:45:37,965 --> 00:45:41,355
And that usually is like a pretty good
way to connect with people because
920
00:45:41,405 --> 00:45:45,305
most of our protest organizers, they
advertise it as a peaceful protest
921
00:45:45,395 --> 00:45:47,285
that's typical to what happens.
922
00:45:47,345 --> 00:45:51,425
So, but my point is the
analyst role, it's not simple.
923
00:45:51,485 --> 00:45:54,545
It's not for somebody who isn't
trained on how to do things.
924
00:45:54,545 --> 00:45:59,675
It's not for somebody who doesn't have
the kind of skills and judgment to.
925
00:46:00,010 --> 00:46:02,230
Be a part of a high stakes situation.
926
00:46:02,340 --> 00:46:06,750
That's why I feel the role of the
analyst in this scenario is incredibly
927
00:46:06,750 --> 00:46:09,570
important because you can't just
like pull somebody from another
928
00:46:09,570 --> 00:46:11,430
assignment and tell 'em to do this.
929
00:46:11,550 --> 00:46:14,790
You have to have the people that
are, that understand what the job
930
00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:19,060
is to, to tackle something that's
as complex as a, as like a a threat
931
00:46:19,060 --> 00:46:20,590
assessment related to a protest.
932
00:46:20,770 --> 00:46:22,990
It's a lot more than
just scanning Facebook.
933
00:46:23,345 --> 00:46:24,065
In my opinion.
934
00:46:24,070 --> 00:46:24,240
Yeah,
935
00:46:26,540 --> 00:46:31,300
that's, well it's funny 'cause I often
say on this show that I think an analyst
936
00:46:31,300 --> 00:46:35,590
could spend their entire day on social
media if that, if they're not careful.
937
00:46:35,770 --> 00:46:36,460
Like that's, yeah.
938
00:46:36,545 --> 00:46:36,785
Yeah.
939
00:46:36,785 --> 00:46:37,510
So sometimes it feels
940
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:37,930
like that.
941
00:46:38,260 --> 00:46:39,490
It definitely feels like that.
942
00:46:39,490 --> 00:46:42,500
It's definitely the, that's a that's
something that's changed from when
943
00:46:42,500 --> 00:46:46,720
I started is is if you're an analyst
now, you're expected to have some
944
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,310
pretty slick social media skills.
945
00:46:48,430 --> 00:46:48,760
Yeah.
946
00:46:48,910 --> 00:46:52,090
Well, I think this is a good
segue into our next segment.
947
00:46:52,160 --> 00:47:00,710
And it's talking about technology,
AI programs versus the human analyst.
948
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:01,490
Oh, yes.
949
00:47:01,490 --> 00:47:04,040
And so you want, and you wanted to
touch on this, you have a speaking
950
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,990
engagement coming up left a boom, right?
951
00:47:07,110 --> 00:47:11,575
That's correct, yes., I'm new to
this event, so we'll see how it goes.
952
00:47:11,575 --> 00:47:13,705
But my understanding is I'm gonna be.
953
00:47:14,055 --> 00:47:19,895
Speaking on the topic of AI and technology
innovations and the need for human
954
00:47:19,895 --> 00:47:23,335
analysts in conjunction with those
the developments that we're seeing.
955
00:47:23,425 --> 00:47:25,355
So that's where my mind has been lately.
956
00:47:25,535 --> 00:47:29,975
I would say that I really believe
this is the issue of the day.
957
00:47:30,035 --> 00:47:34,985
I think what we're seeing happening is
fundamentally changing law enforcement.
958
00:47:34,985 --> 00:47:37,295
It's fundamentally changing
the way this work is done.
959
00:47:37,535 --> 00:47:39,935
I think this is more than just a trend.
960
00:47:39,935 --> 00:47:41,975
It's more than just like the latest.
961
00:47:42,695 --> 00:47:47,585
Buzzword ai the AI is, is, is
creeping into everything we do,
962
00:47:47,705 --> 00:47:51,725
but I think the way that it's
affecting police work is profound.
963
00:47:51,795 --> 00:47:56,385
It was a few weeks ago I was invited
out to go to the headquarters of
964
00:47:56,415 --> 00:47:59,395
a very prolific technology maker.
965
00:47:59,395 --> 00:48:03,475
I won't say the name of the company,
but it, it rhymes with Saxon
966
00:48:05,725 --> 00:48:11,575
and I show up for this not knowing quite
to what to expect, but, but walking into
967
00:48:11,575 --> 00:48:15,415
the headquarters of this building was,
I've been telling people it was like
968
00:48:15,415 --> 00:48:17,305
walking onto the Starship Enterprise.
969
00:48:17,365 --> 00:48:18,235
I swear to God.
970
00:48:18,235 --> 00:48:23,455
You walk in, there's an airlock and a
and you step inside, and then you go
971
00:48:23,455 --> 00:48:25,455
in and it's like what do they call it?
972
00:48:25,455 --> 00:48:27,495
What do they call that
in Starship Enterprise?
973
00:48:27,495 --> 00:48:31,315
The, the we're all, we're
where Captain Kirk is standing.
974
00:48:31,590 --> 00:48:34,375
The, oh, the, the main, oh geez.
975
00:48:34,915 --> 00:48:35,695
Oh, what is that called?
976
00:48:35,815 --> 00:48:37,045
We need a Star Trek person.
977
00:48:37,405 --> 00:48:37,615
Yeah.
978
00:48:37,695 --> 00:48:38,115
The bridge.
979
00:48:38,115 --> 00:48:38,330
The bridge.
980
00:48:38,420 --> 00:48:38,900
The bridge.
981
00:48:39,050 --> 00:48:42,350
So it, yes, the, the, the whole office
set up is like the bridge, right?
982
00:48:42,375 --> 00:48:46,390
And, and circular balconies,
twirl all surrounding the
983
00:48:46,390 --> 00:48:48,010
center area of this office.
984
00:48:48,010 --> 00:48:52,950
And then, and then they take you
downstairs and there's a a basement.
985
00:48:53,130 --> 00:48:57,300
I think we went downstairs that the
only way I can describe this is like
986
00:48:57,370 --> 00:49:01,180
Q'S laboratory on, in a James Bond
film where there's like scientists
987
00:49:01,180 --> 00:49:05,230
that are testing all these gadgets
and they're firing this and that.
988
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,290
You really feel like
you're on a movie set.
989
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:12,050
And and, and then you go back into a
room and you realize that like, not
990
00:49:12,050 --> 00:49:16,790
only are a lot of these products, like
for sale, we're using a lot of 'em
991
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:18,620
already and they're not going away.
992
00:49:18,740 --> 00:49:24,030
Whether it be AI technology things
that are related to drones, realtime
993
00:49:24,030 --> 00:49:25,930
crime centers you name it, it.
994
00:49:26,275 --> 00:49:29,125
It is, this is like a new
world that we're living in.
995
00:49:29,125 --> 00:49:30,475
And it kind of blew my mind.
996
00:49:30,505 --> 00:49:34,315
And the first thing I thought of was,
and I, 'cause I'm looking around at, at
997
00:49:34,615 --> 00:49:38,885
chiefs from various departments across
the country, and they are they're,
998
00:49:38,945 --> 00:49:41,615
they're writing down their shopping
list they're thinking about what they're
999
00:49:41,615 --> 00:49:43,145
gonna buy and what they're not gonna buy.
1000
00:49:43,265 --> 00:49:47,495
And in the back of my mind I'm like, well,
this is some really cool stuff for sure.
1001
00:49:47,495 --> 00:49:50,795
There's some interesting things in here,
but there's some things I don't know.
1002
00:49:50,855 --> 00:49:52,385
I don't know if this is a good idea.
1003
00:49:52,630 --> 00:49:53,050
Mm-hmm.
1004
00:49:54,175 --> 00:49:56,665
If, how is our community
gonna respond to this one?
1005
00:49:56,765 --> 00:50:00,005
Maybe my perspective is a little bit
different in Southern California, but
1006
00:50:00,065 --> 00:50:04,205
I was kind of asking those questions to
myself, but I think the one thing that
1007
00:50:04,205 --> 00:50:08,285
I do see is, and I think people will
recognize this, when you have a lot of
1008
00:50:08,285 --> 00:50:14,305
this flashy stuff in front of you, you
start to forget about the, the human
1009
00:50:14,305 --> 00:50:19,795
component that's needed to make sure that
this stuff is being used in the right way.
1010
00:50:19,865 --> 00:50:23,895
Whether it's being used responsibly,
effectively or, or simply in the
1011
00:50:23,895 --> 00:50:25,305
most simplest terms, who's gonna.
1012
00:50:25,655 --> 00:50:28,775
Who's gonna manage it, who's gonna
somebody's gotta be at the controls.
1013
00:50:28,805 --> 00:50:28,895
Mm-hmm.
1014
00:50:29,135 --> 00:50:34,445
So you start to think about the skills
that an analyst has, and the truth
1015
00:50:34,445 --> 00:50:38,765
is, a lot of these things, they,
they, they're gonna fall in the laps
1016
00:50:38,765 --> 00:50:42,215
of an analyst, especially if they're
deployed in a realtime crime center.
1017
00:50:42,275 --> 00:50:42,695
So.
1018
00:50:43,085 --> 00:50:43,235
Mm-hmm.
1019
00:50:43,655 --> 00:50:44,645
Who do you put in there?
1020
00:50:44,765 --> 00:50:48,165
I feel like one of the challenges
now is, is everybody wants
1021
00:50:48,165 --> 00:50:49,275
a real time crime center.
1022
00:50:49,405 --> 00:50:51,125
We're going to make sure we get.
1023
00:50:51,340 --> 00:50:52,420
A big video wall.
1024
00:50:52,420 --> 00:50:56,230
We're gonna get super powerful computers,
we're gonna have cameras everywhere.
1025
00:50:56,590 --> 00:50:59,800
And then the, the last question
is, who do we staff it with?
1026
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:01,630
Well, my opinion, that
should be the first question.
1027
00:51:01,750 --> 00:51:01,960
Mm-hmm.
1028
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:05,110
And, and I don't think it's
necessarily, you don't answer that
1029
00:51:05,110 --> 00:51:06,920
by saying, I. It's the crime analyst.
1030
00:51:06,980 --> 00:51:10,280
I think you answer it by saying,
you gotta make sure you have
1031
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:11,270
the right person in there.
1032
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:14,510
You gotta make sure that you
have person with analyst skills.
1033
00:51:14,510 --> 00:51:18,380
I think the challenge for the analyst is
now you're taking a crime analyst or an
1034
00:51:18,380 --> 00:51:22,700
Intel analyst, and you're saying, okay,
your job is not just to be an analyst.
1035
00:51:22,730 --> 00:51:24,680
Now you need to be a detective.
1036
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,650
You need to be a dispatcher,
you need to be a patrol officer.
1037
00:51:27,740 --> 00:51:27,830
Mm-hmm.
1038
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:29,810
Maybe even a drone pilot, who knows?
1039
00:51:29,930 --> 00:51:31,940
But you need to be all
those things in one.
1040
00:51:32,090 --> 00:51:36,830
And I think there's some huge questions
too about an analyst that you've worked
1041
00:51:36,830 --> 00:51:40,880
for 15 years behind a desk and you
you're good at your job, but you've
1042
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,580
seen a lot, you've been through a
lot, you've been exposed to a lot.
1043
00:51:43,610 --> 00:51:46,490
Nobody really realizes how much
you've actually kind of had to
1044
00:51:46,490 --> 00:51:49,880
deal with emotionally, and now
you're in a real time crime center.
1045
00:51:49,895 --> 00:51:53,555
And you just witnessed something horrible
happen on a camera, something that's gonna
1046
00:51:53,555 --> 00:51:55,745
stay with you for the rest of your life.
1047
00:51:55,895 --> 00:51:59,195
And you were a part of that and you were
listening to the call as it was coming in.
1048
00:51:59,315 --> 00:52:00,395
Nobody thought of that.
1049
00:52:00,485 --> 00:52:01,145
Oh man.
1050
00:52:01,235 --> 00:52:03,065
Like, what are we, you know what, what?
1051
00:52:03,275 --> 00:52:06,125
We didn't realize that all this
technology was gonna change how
1052
00:52:06,125 --> 00:52:08,075
people are exposed to crime.
1053
00:52:08,225 --> 00:52:13,745
These are important questions that I
think can be forgotten when you are in the
1054
00:52:13,745 --> 00:52:15,575
rush to get the latest and the greatest.
1055
00:52:15,755 --> 00:52:15,995
Yeah.
1056
00:52:15,995 --> 00:52:23,405
I, the way I feel about this topic is,
and this is a topic as, as you and I
1057
00:52:23,405 --> 00:52:27,365
have been, been around 20 plus years
since we started , our first days as
1058
00:52:27,365 --> 00:52:32,585
a law enforcement analyst, there's
always been this idea that the computer
1059
00:52:32,585 --> 00:52:34,745
is going to replace the analyst.
1060
00:52:34,750 --> 00:52:35,050
Mm-hmm.
1061
00:52:35,150 --> 00:52:35,730
And we.
1062
00:52:36,455 --> 00:52:40,455
You've, you've been hearing that
a lot with ai, I think that's
1063
00:52:40,575 --> 00:52:44,415
certainly, that drum has gotten
louder it's interesting that, why
1064
00:52:44,415 --> 00:52:46,425
does it have to be one or the other?
1065
00:52:46,475 --> 00:52:48,635
, Why can't the work together?
1066
00:52:48,665 --> 00:52:48,875
Right.
1067
00:52:48,965 --> 00:52:53,495
Why, why can't the analysts use
AI to leverage what they do?
1068
00:52:53,525 --> 00:52:56,345
Bring them both together instead
of having one or the other.
1069
00:52:56,525 --> 00:52:56,735
Yeah.
1070
00:52:56,735 --> 00:53:00,575
I think it's a really, it's a really
great point for a couple reasons.
1071
00:53:00,575 --> 00:53:04,835
One of 'em being is it may be
a new scenario, but it feels
1072
00:53:04,835 --> 00:53:05,915
like an old conversation.
1073
00:53:05,915 --> 00:53:08,975
It feels like we've been having this
same conversation for a long time.
1074
00:53:08,975 --> 00:53:11,315
I mean, for, I mean, do
you remember, what was it?
1075
00:53:11,525 --> 00:53:13,225
What was the oh pre pole, remember?
1076
00:53:13,225 --> 00:53:13,885
Pre pole?
1077
00:53:14,785 --> 00:53:14,845
Yeah.
1078
00:53:14,845 --> 00:53:15,475
Can I say that?
1079
00:53:15,990 --> 00:53:18,715
Yeah, it's, that's been a
while since I heard that.
1080
00:53:18,715 --> 00:53:19,015
Yes.
1081
00:53:19,015 --> 00:53:19,375
Yeah.
1082
00:53:19,435 --> 00:53:20,245
Like, okay.
1083
00:53:20,425 --> 00:53:22,645
Like, hey, we just
rolled out with pre pole.
1084
00:53:22,645 --> 00:53:24,445
It's gonna predict where
all the crime happens.
1085
00:53:24,445 --> 00:53:25,885
We don't need an analyst anymore.
1086
00:53:25,885 --> 00:53:27,565
I've got a little square box on my map.
1087
00:53:27,595 --> 00:53:29,635
It's gonna tell me where
my next robbery happens.
1088
00:53:29,785 --> 00:53:29,845
Yeah.
1089
00:53:30,235 --> 00:53:33,655
And all of us sitting in the analyst
chair, were like, good luck with that.
1090
00:53:34,975 --> 00:53:38,485
So, you know that, that, and where
did, what happened with that?
1091
00:53:38,485 --> 00:53:41,875
I think that was a, there was a wake
up call at some point where it realized
1092
00:53:41,875 --> 00:53:46,585
like, yeah, the map, it's not the map,
not it's the, you gotta have somebody,
1093
00:53:46,590 --> 00:53:48,175
you, you can't just look at the map.
1094
00:53:48,175 --> 00:53:50,335
You gotta have somebody look in the map.
1095
00:53:50,365 --> 00:53:52,975
You have to have somebody that's
gonna be able to say, here's
1096
00:53:52,975 --> 00:53:54,205
what showed up in the map.
1097
00:53:54,355 --> 00:53:55,735
Here's what you need to pay attention to.
1098
00:53:55,735 --> 00:53:58,735
Here's what you can forget about
and here's what this is telling us.
1099
00:53:58,885 --> 00:54:03,675
And I really, I mean, I, I was shocked
when, when I saw that kind of thing.
1100
00:54:03,955 --> 00:54:07,345
Play into a conversation of we
don't need the analysts anymore.
1101
00:54:07,345 --> 00:54:09,715
I was like, you guys are gonna
have to hire more analysts.
1102
00:54:09,775 --> 00:54:12,345
And I think the same the same
situation is true now you're
1103
00:54:12,345 --> 00:54:13,935
gonna have to hire more analysts.
1104
00:54:13,935 --> 00:54:17,485
I think we just recently visited
Irvine Police Department.
1105
00:54:17,485 --> 00:54:20,395
They have a, a, a realtime crime
center that they've deployed and
1106
00:54:20,395 --> 00:54:23,455
it's doing pretty well and they've
put a lot of investment into it.
1107
00:54:23,515 --> 00:54:27,025
But the best part of what they've done
is they've invested heavily into their
1108
00:54:27,025 --> 00:54:29,575
staffing, their staffing being analysts.
1109
00:54:29,635 --> 00:54:33,325
They've got eight analysts that
they can assign to that room.
1110
00:54:33,395 --> 00:54:36,785
For a city the size of, of
Irvine, I think that's fantastic.
1111
00:54:36,935 --> 00:54:38,765
I think it's it's forward thinking.
1112
00:54:38,885 --> 00:54:43,925
I think it's realistic about the
approach of training people for that job.
1113
00:54:44,025 --> 00:54:47,265
Rather than saying, we just need another
set of eyeballs that can look at cameras.
1114
00:54:47,355 --> 00:54:49,695
Like, you gotta have the
right people in that chair.
1115
00:54:49,785 --> 00:54:50,805
Very good.
1116
00:54:50,885 --> 00:54:53,985
Let's talk briefly about the IACA.
1117
00:54:54,125 --> 00:54:56,795
'Cause as I told you,
that's where we met and.
1118
00:54:57,085 --> 00:55:02,035
Well, I just want to get your
overall take on the IACA.
1119
00:55:02,315 --> 00:55:04,145
So I'll just, you just open it up.
1120
00:55:04,195 --> 00:55:06,355
When I say IACA, what comes to mind
1121
00:55:06,505 --> 00:55:10,585
when you say IACA, the International
Association of Crime Analysts?
1122
00:55:10,585 --> 00:55:11,395
What comes to mind?
1123
00:55:11,455 --> 00:55:16,705
I would have to say the very first IACA
conference that I ever attended was
1124
00:55:16,705 --> 00:55:22,165
a very important part of my journey
that takes us back to the very, I.
1125
00:55:22,490 --> 00:55:25,440
First days of my job here in Oceanside.
1126
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:30,830
And when I was in that, actually it was
in those first few weeks and months that
1127
00:55:30,890 --> 00:55:34,790
I was started to struggle and realized,
like I had a lot of things to figure out.
1128
00:55:34,790 --> 00:55:37,270
Like I could fake it
enough to get the job, but
1129
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:37,450
mm-hmm.
1130
00:55:37,750 --> 00:55:40,300
I've got some real problems here
that I don't have answers to.
1131
00:55:40,420 --> 00:55:45,070
And luckily they sent me to Seattle
for the IACA conference, and I showed
1132
00:55:45,070 --> 00:55:50,620
up at the hotel and I sat down and
I recognized right, right away,
1133
00:55:50,620 --> 00:55:54,100
Samantha Gwinn, who at the time worked
at the San Diego Police Department.
1134
00:55:54,850 --> 00:55:54,970
Mm-hmm.
1135
00:55:55,210 --> 00:55:55,390
And I go.
1136
00:55:55,390 --> 00:55:56,420
Somebody I know, thank God.
1137
00:55:56,450 --> 00:55:56,540
Mm-hmm.
1138
00:55:56,780 --> 00:56:01,140
And I walked over and she was sitting with
Carolyn Cassidy, who both of them are,
1139
00:56:01,140 --> 00:56:03,360
are, are still dear friends to this day.
1140
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,925
But at the time they were the
only people that I knew in mm-hmm.
1141
00:56:07,005 --> 00:56:07,650
In the profession.
1142
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:09,600
And I was like, well, you know what?
1143
00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:10,770
You guys seem pretty cool.
1144
00:56:10,770 --> 00:56:12,960
I think I'm gonna follow you
guys around for a few days.
1145
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,180
And there was kind of two benefits.
1146
00:56:16,180 --> 00:56:18,610
One was I realized I wasn't alone.
1147
00:56:18,610 --> 00:56:22,060
I realized I wasn't the only one
out there that was trying to figure
1148
00:56:22,060 --> 00:56:27,290
things out that had problems in terms
of how to get information to build
1149
00:56:27,290 --> 00:56:31,310
programs, deal with difficult bosses,
whatever it might be, deal with.
1150
00:56:31,555 --> 00:56:33,415
Cops that didn't understand my job.
1151
00:56:33,565 --> 00:56:36,415
I was definitely not, I mean, everybody
at the conference was like that.
1152
00:56:36,415 --> 00:56:37,675
So I was like, this is great.
1153
00:56:37,705 --> 00:56:39,985
I mean, that was like
a breath of fresh air.
1154
00:56:40,055 --> 00:56:45,005
Kind of a, a, a moment where I realized
that, that the profession is bigger
1155
00:56:45,125 --> 00:56:46,595
than this job here in Oceanside.
1156
00:56:46,595 --> 00:56:47,675
There's more going on.
1157
00:56:47,675 --> 00:56:50,495
And I was really happy
to be a part of that.
1158
00:56:50,645 --> 00:56:53,615
I think the other thing that
happened was I had a ton of
1159
00:56:53,615 --> 00:56:54,725
fun hanging out with people.
1160
00:56:54,725 --> 00:56:58,205
So I remember we were in Seattle
and, and I, and I, and I lived in the
1161
00:56:58,205 --> 00:57:03,060
Northwest, so I'm in part a Mariners fan
and I. We went out to a Mariners game.
1162
00:57:03,060 --> 00:57:03,150
Yep.
1163
00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:03,990
And I Yeah, I remember that.
1164
00:57:03,990 --> 00:57:05,670
Were, were you at, were you at this Jason?
1165
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:06,030
Yep.
1166
00:57:06,060 --> 00:57:06,510
Oh gosh.
1167
00:57:06,510 --> 00:57:07,530
And I remember going,
you're gonna remember
1168
00:57:07,530 --> 00:57:07,800
this.
1169
00:57:07,860 --> 00:57:08,940
This is a great story.
1170
00:57:09,060 --> 00:57:13,350
So we go out for the Mariners game and
I'm getting to know people and everything,
1171
00:57:13,350 --> 00:57:15,420
and I probably was like so naive.
1172
00:57:15,420 --> 00:57:17,310
I'm like, well, I guess we'll
go to the Mariners game and then
1173
00:57:17,310 --> 00:57:18,635
go back to my hotel and mm-hmm.
1174
00:57:18,735 --> 00:57:18,955
The
1175
00:57:19,170 --> 00:57:22,530
Mariners game was over and it was like,
oh, we're just getting started, you know?
1176
00:57:22,620 --> 00:57:28,260
And we go out on the town and, and the
group of us end up in the coyote bar,
1177
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,250
which, I mean, if it, I think Coyote,
anything called the coyote bar, you
1178
00:57:32,250 --> 00:57:33,930
can kind of guess what that looks like.
1179
00:57:34,060 --> 00:57:37,910
Like people dancing on the bar
it's like a wild spot, whatever.
1180
00:57:38,210 --> 00:57:38,330
Yeah.
1181
00:57:38,330 --> 00:57:41,900
And I look over, and I won't name
this person, but I look over one
1182
00:57:41,900 --> 00:57:45,410
of the analysts from the group
is riding the mechanical bull.
1183
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:45,860
Yeah.
1184
00:57:45,860 --> 00:57:48,980
Like, within like seconds
of walking in the place.
1185
00:57:49,070 --> 00:57:49,490
And I'm like.
1186
00:57:50,020 --> 00:57:50,470
Whoa.
1187
00:57:50,470 --> 00:57:54,470
These people are a lot more exciting
than, than they're, they're than
1188
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:58,190
people say, like, we get labeled
as like the, the nerdy group,
1189
00:57:58,220 --> 00:58:00,170
but man, this is the place to be.
1190
00:58:00,170 --> 00:58:00,920
This is fun.
1191
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:06,630
So I fondly remember the friends I
made through the, the IACA, those, I
1192
00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:11,430
mean, that was, gosh, that was like
that was like medication to my illness.
1193
00:58:11,500 --> 00:58:16,660
I was struggling in so many ways and like
the, the IECA came and rescued me and I
1194
00:58:16,660 --> 00:58:20,140
learned a lot, not just at the conference,
but through the connections that I made
1195
00:58:20,230 --> 00:58:23,050
people that I, even there, if there
across the country, I could pick up the
1196
00:58:23,050 --> 00:58:25,420
phone and say, Hey, I've got a problem.
1197
00:58:25,420 --> 00:58:26,080
I know you guys.
1198
00:58:26,635 --> 00:58:29,065
Are similar to us in this
way, can you help me?
1199
00:58:29,185 --> 00:58:33,655
And I leaned on that heavily
for, for years, so, mm-hmm.
1200
00:58:33,845 --> 00:58:37,415
And it was one of those things too, was
I had to, I had to preach about that
1201
00:58:37,415 --> 00:58:40,805
when I got back because people would
be like, I try to go to the conferences
1202
00:58:40,805 --> 00:58:45,095
often as I could, and people would be
like, oh yeah, you're gonna go off to
1203
00:58:45,095 --> 00:58:49,295
this town and have a good time for a week
paid vacation by the department, huh?
1204
00:58:49,295 --> 00:58:49,385
Mm-hmm.
1205
00:58:49,805 --> 00:58:50,675
And I was like, no.
1206
00:58:50,675 --> 00:58:52,385
I'm like, I, I really need this.
1207
00:58:52,385 --> 00:58:53,555
I have to go because.
1208
00:58:53,875 --> 00:58:55,525
There's nowhere else
to go to get training.
1209
00:58:55,555 --> 00:58:57,775
There's nobody that's talking
about these things in a room.
1210
00:58:57,775 --> 00:59:00,145
There's nobody that's
teaching me how to do this.
1211
00:59:00,175 --> 00:59:04,105
Like, I have to go to the IACA because
these are the people that are, are
1212
00:59:04,105 --> 00:59:06,475
living it, and these are the people
that are sharing their knowledge.
1213
00:59:06,475 --> 00:59:12,435
So I have nothing but the best memories
about that involvement in those days.
1214
00:59:12,645 --> 00:59:12,885
Yeah.
1215
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,315
So, so you won two awards.
1216
00:59:15,375 --> 00:59:16,725
It is, it's interesting.
1217
00:59:16,755 --> 00:59:21,045
It, it seems now that it might
actually be civilian award season.
1218
00:59:21,045 --> 00:59:21,975
In the springtime.
1219
00:59:21,975 --> 00:59:26,685
I was on LinkedIn and I see all these
analysts winning awards for various
1220
00:59:26,685 --> 00:59:28,305
reasons throughout the country.
1221
00:59:28,425 --> 00:59:32,805
, In 2005, you won the overall best product.
1222
00:59:33,265 --> 00:59:34,945
Crime analysis product.
1223
00:59:34,945 --> 00:59:41,685
And then 2007, you won the best technical
crime bulletin, what did that do for you?
1224
00:59:41,685 --> 00:59:48,395
What do you, how do you value that these,
these awards that analysts are given?
1225
00:59:48,635 --> 00:59:53,075
I think the most important, for me, the
most important thing about those awards
1226
00:59:53,165 --> 00:59:57,185
was not necessarily the recognition,
it was the fact that it validated
1227
00:59:57,185 --> 00:59:58,655
what I was doing in the department.
1228
00:59:58,835 --> 01:00:02,925
So when I was doing my best to
come out with a, with a bulletin
1229
01:00:02,925 --> 01:00:06,135
related to a robbery series,
I was hoping that it was good.
1230
01:00:06,165 --> 01:00:07,875
I was hoping that it would help.
1231
01:00:07,935 --> 01:00:12,015
I was hoping that it was, I was doing
my job, but I didn't totally know.
1232
01:00:12,075 --> 01:00:15,885
And getting the recognition through
something like IACA and and being
1233
01:00:15,885 --> 01:00:19,605
able to go and speak at a conference
and talk about something that we were
1234
01:00:19,605 --> 01:00:23,845
working on here in the department
was, was incredibly validating and it
1235
01:00:23,845 --> 01:00:25,735
allowed me to continue to move forward.
1236
01:00:25,735 --> 01:00:29,945
It allowed me to continue to kind of
push things in that direction because I
1237
01:00:29,945 --> 01:00:34,665
could, I could fall back on it if I had
somebody that was maybe doubting, like
1238
01:00:34,665 --> 01:00:38,625
whether this is a good thing to do or
whether this is, it had any value to it.
1239
01:00:38,745 --> 01:00:41,405
I was I was able to trust that.
1240
01:00:41,950 --> 01:00:45,700
It was that it was the right thing to say,
look, like I've talked to analysts across
1241
01:00:45,700 --> 01:00:47,670
the country, this is how we wanna do this.
1242
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:52,160
So and so in this city this is
something that they do and it works.
1243
01:00:52,220 --> 01:00:55,410
This is when we did this
before it led to an arrest.
1244
01:00:55,470 --> 01:00:59,670
All those things the IACA, those
awards, that's, I think was the
1245
01:00:59,670 --> 01:01:01,150
most value in getting those.
1246
01:01:01,330 --> 01:01:04,630
Alright, let's go on to our
advice section for our listeners.
1247
01:01:04,630 --> 01:01:08,140
And this can be for new
analysts, experienced analysts.
1248
01:01:08,140 --> 01:01:11,860
This is can be something that
analysts can study now because five
1249
01:01:11,860 --> 01:01:13,480
years it's going to be important.
1250
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:13,990
What do you got?
1251
01:01:14,130 --> 01:01:18,540
I would say that my advice is
a second part of that question.
1252
01:01:18,850 --> 01:01:20,265
Why have I stayed here for so long?
1253
01:01:20,265 --> 01:01:20,625
Mm-hmm.
1254
01:01:20,885 --> 01:01:24,820
So my advice to analysts would
be, do whatever you can to
1255
01:01:24,820 --> 01:01:26,650
continually reinvent yourself.
1256
01:01:26,770 --> 01:01:26,950
Mm-hmm.
1257
01:01:27,130 --> 01:01:29,380
If you were to ask me why
have I stayed here so long?
1258
01:01:29,780 --> 01:01:32,600
I would say the truth be told, I
don't think I've had the same job
1259
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:33,830
for more than two or three years.
1260
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,530
My job has changed so
much from when I started.
1261
01:01:36,890 --> 01:01:39,400
The things that I work
on have always changed.
1262
01:01:39,430 --> 01:01:43,210
And the best part of my job is that
they've allowed me to work on the things
1263
01:01:43,210 --> 01:01:46,930
that I want to work on, the things that
I enjoy, the things that I wanna pursue.
1264
01:01:47,020 --> 01:01:52,850
So an example of that would be coming from
London, doing the degree I did, you know.
1265
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:57,530
Looking at an Intel career, I
really wanted to do something
1266
01:01:57,590 --> 01:01:58,820
in counter-terrorism.
1267
01:01:58,970 --> 01:02:01,100
I wanted to do something
related to Homeland Security.
1268
01:02:01,100 --> 01:02:02,270
That was an ambition of mine.
1269
01:02:02,270 --> 01:02:05,280
And I came it was, it, it took a
while 'cause I was getting shut down.
1270
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,310
I was like, no, we got pe I was told
we got people that could handle that.
1271
01:02:08,310 --> 01:02:09,330
And I'm like, are you sure?
1272
01:02:09,330 --> 01:02:11,670
I really think like we should
have an Intel component to this.
1273
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:13,500
They're like, Nope, you can't
go to that training 'cause
1274
01:02:13,500 --> 01:02:14,640
we got somebody else going.
1275
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:18,010
And I'm like, finally, I, I was able
to break through because I had the
1276
01:02:18,010 --> 01:02:21,480
right people that were listening
and the next thing I knew I was.
1277
01:02:21,830 --> 01:02:26,240
Going to New Mexico to do like
explosives training and learn
1278
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:27,920
about how to recognize explosives.
1279
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,080
And we were, we were blowing stuff up.
1280
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:32,580
We we, we, we blew up a car bomb.
1281
01:02:32,610 --> 01:02:33,990
I mean, it was, it was awesome.
1282
01:02:34,110 --> 01:02:36,150
It was like one of the, that's
one of the highlights of my career
1283
01:02:36,150 --> 01:02:39,930
was going to New Mexico and, and
doing a terrorism training course.
1284
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:46,130
And that was because I thought
carefully about how to make an argument.
1285
01:02:46,595 --> 01:02:49,385
That was worth something, that was
something I should be working on,
1286
01:02:49,505 --> 01:02:51,125
and it was something I wanted to do.
1287
01:02:51,125 --> 01:02:55,985
And I, and I managed to not only go to the
training, but I brought it back and then
1288
01:02:55,985 --> 01:03:00,605
I started teaching it to our officers and
then myself, along with some colleagues,
1289
01:03:00,635 --> 01:03:03,425
we built a terrorism liaison program.
1290
01:03:03,575 --> 01:03:07,325
I'm proud of the fact that that's
not just about like responding
1291
01:03:07,325 --> 01:03:10,115
to a a, a suspicious incident.
1292
01:03:10,385 --> 01:03:15,655
It's about having like an Intel component
within your, your your local law
1293
01:03:15,655 --> 01:03:17,995
enforcement terrorism awareness program.
1294
01:03:18,085 --> 01:03:22,035
So we, we built a, a very
good program for years.
1295
01:03:22,095 --> 01:03:26,575
I would head down to and I still do
from time to time down to the Fusion
1296
01:03:26,575 --> 01:03:31,325
Center in San Diego or the FBI offices
that are here in, in North County.
1297
01:03:31,625 --> 01:03:35,435
And we would meet and we talk about stuff,
and I slept better at night because I'm
1298
01:03:35,435 --> 01:03:38,450
like, at least I I don't think anybody
was doing this until we started it.
1299
01:03:38,695 --> 01:03:41,095
Nobody was really paying attention
to when they needed to be.
1300
01:03:41,425 --> 01:03:45,085
And so we implemented that,
and that program still is a
1301
01:03:45,085 --> 01:03:46,615
part of how we do things today.
1302
01:03:46,765 --> 01:03:49,405
And for me, that's
another career highlight.
1303
01:03:49,405 --> 01:03:52,765
But it's only because I decided
I'm not gonna limit myself to
1304
01:03:52,765 --> 01:03:53,935
what's on my job description.
1305
01:03:53,935 --> 01:03:57,475
I'm gonna look for ways that I can
grow and I'm challenged myself.
1306
01:03:57,715 --> 01:04:02,905
And even if some people might not see
that as my job, i, I think if, if, if I
1307
01:04:02,905 --> 01:04:07,005
can do it and there's a good reason for
it I'm gonna, I'm gonna chase it down.
1308
01:04:07,005 --> 01:04:10,305
And I've done that over the course
of my career, and I think that's
1309
01:04:10,305 --> 01:04:11,625
something I don't always see.
1310
01:04:11,625 --> 01:04:14,615
And I see people get oh, I'm so
tired of doing the same thing.
1311
01:04:14,705 --> 01:04:15,695
Well, whose fault is that?
1312
01:04:15,695 --> 01:04:15,696
Mm-hmm.
1313
01:04:15,845 --> 01:04:17,105
You have to ask that question.
1314
01:04:17,105 --> 01:04:18,035
You're doing the same thing.
1315
01:04:18,035 --> 01:04:19,055
You're complaining about it.
1316
01:04:19,125 --> 01:04:20,145
What do you like to do?
1317
01:04:20,175 --> 01:04:21,105
What do you wanna do?
1318
01:04:21,205 --> 01:04:25,315
And it's not just assignments, it's also
like how you engage with your community.
1319
01:04:25,315 --> 01:04:29,435
Maybe we our analysts, like, they're
pretty active in our we have a
1320
01:04:29,435 --> 01:04:32,585
program here in Oceanside called
the Oceanside Youth Partnership.
1321
01:04:32,645 --> 01:04:36,385
So every week they take off when this
program is running, they take off
1322
01:04:36,385 --> 01:04:39,205
a little early from their shift and
they go out and they hang out with
1323
01:04:39,205 --> 01:04:43,415
kids that were maybe they're at risk
youth that we've incorporated into
1324
01:04:43,415 --> 01:04:47,075
a, a policing program where we teach
them things, but we interact with
1325
01:04:47,075 --> 01:04:49,415
them and our, it's not just for cops.
1326
01:04:49,445 --> 01:04:52,055
Our analysts are out there doing
that and they get a lot out of that.
1327
01:04:52,055 --> 01:04:53,295
So you know.
1328
01:04:53,675 --> 01:04:55,115
I feel like those are the things.
1329
01:04:55,115 --> 01:04:58,025
If you can, if you can find
those things, you're gonna,
1330
01:04:58,985 --> 01:05:00,545
that that's, that's my advice.
1331
01:05:00,545 --> 01:05:04,265
That's how you're gonna not just
maybe survive and last somewhere,
1332
01:05:04,265 --> 01:05:07,535
but that's how you're gonna really
like, get, have a fulfilling career.
1333
01:05:07,685 --> 01:05:08,465
That's my advice.
1334
01:05:08,465 --> 01:05:08,525
Yeah.
1335
01:05:08,785 --> 01:05:10,015
Yeah, you gotta be tenacious.
1336
01:05:10,015 --> 01:05:11,095
You gotta be a go-getter.
1337
01:05:11,215 --> 01:05:15,675
I was, I was laughing there because
Joe, Joe Ryan talks to a lot of
1338
01:05:15,675 --> 01:05:19,925
analysts he meets these analysts
that are just completely miserable.
1339
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:21,330
Like, they're just, oh, yeah, yeah.
1340
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,665
They're just not, they're not
doing what they want, but they're
1341
01:05:24,665 --> 01:05:26,610
not leaving either and mm-hmm.
1342
01:05:26,975 --> 01:05:32,345
And I, we, we were trying to come up with
a term for that, that type of analyst.
1343
01:05:32,345 --> 01:05:38,625
And I think the leading term is a,
a gluttonous a glutton an an analyst
1344
01:05:38,625 --> 01:05:40,185
that's a glutton for punishment.
1345
01:05:40,875 --> 01:05:42,135
So that, that's a good one.
1346
01:05:42,135 --> 01:05:42,345
Yeah.
1347
01:05:42,345 --> 01:05:44,235
They're definitely in
some kind of purgatory.
1348
01:05:44,295 --> 01:05:45,405
I, I've seen it plenty.
1349
01:05:45,765 --> 01:05:46,335
Yeah.
1350
01:05:46,335 --> 01:05:46,845
Yeah.
1351
01:05:46,845 --> 01:05:50,955
And it is just one of those things
that they're beaten down and they, they
1352
01:05:50,955 --> 01:05:55,875
just feel they're not being listened
to or, and they just feel lost.
1353
01:05:55,890 --> 01:05:58,740
But at the same time,
they're showing up for work.
1354
01:05:58,920 --> 01:05:59,250
Right.
1355
01:05:59,250 --> 01:06:02,400
And they're not pursuing any other
opportunities, and they're not
1356
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:04,020
trying to change their situation.
1357
01:06:04,140 --> 01:06:06,150
And it's, you feel for, you feel for them.
1358
01:06:06,300 --> 01:06:09,120
Well and the truth is, I mean,
you can say, why don't you
1359
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:10,020
leave and do something else?
1360
01:06:10,020 --> 01:06:14,450
Well a lot of us have lives
we got kids that go to schools
1361
01:06:14,450 --> 01:06:15,530
and we can't leave our job.
1362
01:06:15,530 --> 01:06:19,140
Or maybe there's other circumstances
of, like, I can't take a risk.
1363
01:06:19,140 --> 01:06:22,350
I can't, I can't, I, I, I don't
wanna lose my health insurance or
1364
01:06:22,350 --> 01:06:24,360
my benefits my retirement is good.
1365
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:27,090
I, I mean, it's, it would be
great to leave, but I can't.
1366
01:06:27,090 --> 01:06:31,050
But if there's things in your life that
you can't control, maybe there's some
1367
01:06:31,050 --> 01:06:34,350
things that you can control that'll
make your situation a little better.
1368
01:06:34,350 --> 01:06:35,790
So I think that's one of them.
1369
01:06:35,970 --> 01:06:36,210
All right.
1370
01:06:36,390 --> 01:06:38,520
Well, let's finish up with
personal interest then.
1371
01:06:38,580 --> 01:06:41,940
What do you like to do when you're
not at Oceanside Police Department?
1372
01:06:42,010 --> 01:06:46,630
, My hobbies have aligned themselves
with being at the Oceanside Police
1373
01:06:46,630 --> 01:06:51,490
Department for 20 years, because I'd
say probably getting on the water is my
1374
01:06:51,490 --> 01:06:53,710
number one goal when I'm not at work.
1375
01:06:53,710 --> 01:06:59,900
So whether it's surfing or paddle boarding
I recently learned a sail, which was,
1376
01:07:00,050 --> 01:07:03,470
that was another moment where I'm, I
stepped outta my comfort zone and did
1377
01:07:03,470 --> 01:07:05,150
something I was totally intimidated by.
1378
01:07:05,330 --> 01:07:08,000
And I still get scared half to
death when I take the boat out
1379
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:09,450
on the Big Bay in San Diego.
1380
01:07:09,450 --> 01:07:09,540
Mm-hmm.
1381
01:07:10,290 --> 01:07:13,140
But those, those are probably
my favorite things to do.
1382
01:07:13,470 --> 01:07:16,180
They also, you know my
wife is the same way.
1383
01:07:16,180 --> 01:07:20,380
She has those same interests, so
we've sort of developed that over time
1384
01:07:20,380 --> 01:07:24,250
and it's kind of come along with the
fact that I don't think we thought
1385
01:07:24,250 --> 01:07:25,900
our life was gonna be in San Diego.
1386
01:07:25,900 --> 01:07:28,890
We talked a lot about, I.
Moving back to the northwest.
1387
01:07:28,890 --> 01:07:32,790
And then over time you start to
realize, hey, our life is actually here.
1388
01:07:32,790 --> 01:07:36,360
And you start to embrace the things
that, that are available to you.
1389
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:40,080
And so I didn't start to learn to
surf until my kids started doing it.
1390
01:07:40,250 --> 01:07:42,290
So I was like over 40 Nice.
1391
01:07:42,290 --> 01:07:44,060
When I started to learn, learn to surf.
1392
01:07:44,110 --> 01:07:44,860
But I love it.
1393
01:07:44,890 --> 01:07:48,610
I mean, I was, I was down at the
beach last weekend for my daughter's.
1394
01:07:48,700 --> 01:07:52,000
I was having a birthday party
down there and I, I was the only
1395
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:53,530
guy out there without a wetsuit.
1396
01:07:53,620 --> 01:07:55,210
I said, this is a pretty nice hot day.
1397
01:07:55,210 --> 01:07:56,380
I think I can handle this.
1398
01:07:56,410 --> 01:07:59,380
So that was kind of a cool moment,
but that, those are my, those
1399
01:07:59,380 --> 01:08:00,640
are my favorite things to do.
1400
01:08:00,850 --> 01:08:05,350
So what, on the, on surfing, what is
the most badass thing you've ever done?
1401
01:08:05,530 --> 01:08:07,120
I have done very little.
1402
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:08,650
That you could describe as badass.
1403
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:12,010
I mean, just simply getting
up on the board and not.
1404
01:08:12,310 --> 01:08:14,900
Totally wiping out is a victory for me.
1405
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:15,350
Yeah.
1406
01:08:15,350 --> 01:08:15,470
I
1407
01:08:15,470 --> 01:08:17,240
would've to say so.
1408
01:08:17,350 --> 01:08:20,380
Yeah, I I, I I cannot tell
you a story about the time I
1409
01:08:20,380 --> 01:08:22,180
got barreled at Blacks Beach.
1410
01:08:22,180 --> 01:08:23,710
That's not gonna be in this conversation.
1411
01:08:23,710 --> 01:08:24,430
I'm sorry to say.
1412
01:08:25,480 --> 01:08:25,840
Yeah.
1413
01:08:26,020 --> 01:08:27,400
So, all right.
1414
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:28,840
Very good, Steve.
1415
01:08:29,090 --> 01:08:32,450
Let's our last segment of the show is
Words to the World, and this is where
1416
01:08:32,450 --> 01:08:34,610
you can promote any idea that you wish.
1417
01:08:34,790 --> 01:08:36,710
What are your words to the world?
1418
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:42,230
Well, my words to the world
are very similar to my advice.
1419
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:46,470
That's just not only to reinvent
yourself, but always act like you belong.
1420
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:50,800
I think as if you're an analyst,
especially in a police department, and
1421
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:55,870
you tell somebody that you work for
the Oceanside Police Department often.
1422
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,360
You get the question, oh, are you a cop?
1423
01:08:58,420 --> 01:09:03,130
Well, I, my, my words to the world
are never answer that question
1424
01:09:03,130 --> 01:09:05,140
with, no, I'm just an analyst.
1425
01:09:05,170 --> 01:09:05,680
Mm-hmm.
1426
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:06,730
That breaks my heart.
1427
01:09:06,730 --> 01:09:10,030
Because you're not only minimizing
your role, you're actually doing a
1428
01:09:10,030 --> 01:09:12,100
disservice to the, to the profession.
1429
01:09:12,250 --> 01:09:15,190
Take it as an opportunity
to say, no, you know what?
1430
01:09:15,190 --> 01:09:16,300
My job's a little different.
1431
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:17,770
Lemme tell you about what I do.
1432
01:09:17,900 --> 01:09:20,930
However you wanna say it,
however you wanna explain it.
1433
01:09:20,990 --> 01:09:22,790
And that's you're gonna
have to explain your job.
1434
01:09:22,790 --> 01:09:25,610
If you're out there and you're thinking
about this career, you're gonna have
1435
01:09:25,610 --> 01:09:28,370
to tell people It's not CSI, I'm sorry.
1436
01:09:28,820 --> 01:09:31,280
Even to, in this day and age,
you're gonna have to explain
1437
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:33,470
what you do, but don't play.
1438
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:37,660
You may be in a support role, but
don't play second fiddle like you
1439
01:09:37,660 --> 01:09:41,570
may be in a support role, but don't
think of yourself as I'm only here
1440
01:09:41,570 --> 01:09:43,070
if people ask me for something.
1441
01:09:43,310 --> 01:09:44,300
Take a leadership role.
1442
01:09:44,300 --> 01:09:47,180
Be a leader in your, in your
agency, in your organization.
1443
01:09:47,510 --> 01:09:51,230
Don't think that you're limited
because you're not sworn.
1444
01:09:51,350 --> 01:09:54,260
You never know what you can do and
you never know what people will let
1445
01:09:54,260 --> 01:09:59,080
you do if you try and always walk
in the room like you belong there.
1446
01:09:59,230 --> 01:10:00,040
Very good.
1447
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:02,200
Well, I leave every guest with,
you've given me just enough
1448
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:03,280
to talk bad about you later.
1449
01:10:03,430 --> 01:10:03,760
Yep.
1450
01:10:05,050 --> 01:10:07,660
But I do appreciate you
being on the show, Steve.
1451
01:10:07,660 --> 01:10:09,130
It was great catching up.
1452
01:10:09,580 --> 01:10:11,920
Thank you so much and you be safe.
1453
01:10:12,070 --> 01:10:13,090
Thanks very much Jason.
1454
01:10:13,090 --> 01:10:13,750
It was a lot of fun.
1455
01:10:14,170 --> 01:10:16,510
Thank you for making it to
the end of another episode of
1456
01:10:16,510 --> 01:10:17,860
Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
1457
01:10:17,950 --> 01:10:21,400
You can show your support by sharing
this in other episodes found on
1458
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:25,515
our website@www.podcasts.com.
1459
01:10:25,900 --> 01:10:29,200
If you have a topic you would like
us to cover or have a suggestion for
1460
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:34,030
our next guest, please send us an
email at elliot podcast@gmail.com
1461
01:10:34,030 --> 01:10:35,710
next time analysts talking.