Analyst Talk LEAN - NAPSP - Ben Haiman

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Welcome to Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
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It's like coffee with an analyst or
whiskey with an analyst while organizing
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a spreadsheet, linking crime events,
uncovering patterns, identifying a
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series, and getting the latest updates on
associations, training, and technology.
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So have a good walk, drive safely, or
enjoy your run while joining us as we
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define the law enforcement analysis
profession one episode at a time.
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How we doing, analysts?
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Jason Elder here with another
LEA Podcast Deep Dive.
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This time we have a second episode
of LEAN, Law Enforcement Analysis
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Networks, connecting analysts with
associations, community, and professional
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networks that support their growth.
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And with me today is Ben Haiman
from the National Association of
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Professional Staff and Public Safety.
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Ben, how we doing?
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Amazing.
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So good to be here with you today.
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So we're looking to know more
about this association that was
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just created last year in 2025.
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Before we get into that, give the audience
a brief intro from you and your career
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and how you fit into the association.
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Absolutely, Jason.
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Thanks so much, and thanks so much
for having me on today's podcast.
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My career was with the Washington,
D.C. Metropolitan Police Department.
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I joined right out of undergraduate.
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I always thought I would be a
high school math teacher, but
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instead found myself in nearly a
two-decade career in public safety.
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With the Metropolitan Police I worked in
a wide range of capacities from working
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with human resources to technology working
with a lot of members of the analytical
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community throughout various positions.
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Towards my end of the time with the
agency, I'd served for four years as
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the executive director and the bureau
chief for professional development, so
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recruiting, training, discipline, HR, EO,
all the really fun stuff that people think
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about when they think of law enforcement.
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And three years with the agency as chief
of staff for three chiefs of police
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really helping to guide the kind of
strategic operations for the agency.
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Now I serve as the executive director
for both the University of Virginia's
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Center for Public Safety and Justice, but
more relevant for today's conversation,
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the National Association of Professional
Staff and Public Safety, which is a
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membership association founded in 2025,
but it's grown dramatically with members
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that represent the professional staff
community of public safety primarily
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law enforcement, but we have many folks
in corrections and fire service and
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EMS and other aspects and disciplines.
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Folks from across the public safety
domain that, that care a ton about making
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communities safer, but they themselves
may not wear the uniform or the badge
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but still have a ton to contribute.
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Nice.
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Yeah, you're right, that
is a far cry from math.
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It is, but related every day.
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Yeah.
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I'm sure you still use the
math, especially when it
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comes budget and finance time.
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But it is interesting.
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A part of my show is talking about how
they got to becoming an analyst, so
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that's a fascinating quick overview
from how you got to where you are today.
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You talked a little bit about it,
but let's first answer the question:
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What is the National Association of
Professional Staff in Public Safety?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So the National Association of
Professional Staff in Public
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Safety originated from IACP 2024.
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A bunch of senior professional staff
leaders came together for a panel.
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Frankly, we didn't think many people
would probably be in attendance,
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and we walked in the room, and there
were a couple hundred people there.
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We assumed they were all
there from the last session.
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And so as we started, we said, "Hey,
we're about to start, so unless you
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really care about professional staff
issues, now's the time to leave." And
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much to our surprise, everyone stayed.
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And what we saw was this, this great
interest both from the sworn members and
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professional staff members just really
talking and better understanding the
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ways that professional staff members
serve the public safety organizations,
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but also the unique challenges that
they have from being members within.
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In 2025, we convened our first
symposium of professional staff
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in Charlottesville, Virginia.
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We called it the Leading
Without a Badge Conference.
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And that conference brought together
people from 22 states, 185 folks
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in attendance that first year.
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And really a wide range of disciplines,
from folks that were data scientists
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and oversaw analytical teams, to others
that were serving in other aspects, from
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fleet managers and IT directors, budget
managers, and all k- across the board.
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What we saw was tremendous passion
around public safety, and so
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we knew we were onto something.
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The core planning committee then
got together and started to form
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this 501[c] membership organization
called the National Association
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of Professional Staff, and we
launched it at that conference.
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Over the past year, now 14, 15 months
we're represented by over 1,500
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dues-paying individual members and
that network just continues to grow.
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We've been doing regional conferences
and events to really bring that
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kind of networking element of
professional staff members together.
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We've continued the national
conferences, and we've also had
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interest internationally and have
been building that network as well.
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So what does the association do?
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It serves as a hub for professional
staff leaders and members
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to connect with each other.
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We do that through things like our
third- Third Thursday, an informal
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networking a Zoom call where you can
meet folks from around the country.
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We do that through our state liaisons,
individuals that represent individual
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states and help connect with all
the various great work and state
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associations that are happening.
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We do that through partnerships
with national organizations like
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NALE and NOBLE as well as IACP and
other organizations where we show up
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and really create that space unique
for professional staff members.
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While they might be part of other
organizations this organization is
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really different because it is a
the space for those professional
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staff members to be with peers from
across the country and really to
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have a support network in some part.
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We know that public safety organizations
are represented anywhere between 20
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and 30% by professional staff members,
but they're the minority in the broader
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culture of those organizations, so
those are some unique challenges
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that we dive into in our events.
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And then there's things that are
ubiquitous for those that are in
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sworn positions and professional staff
positions, like health and wellness And
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burnout on the job that we also dive into,
but are just as relevant for our members
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as any member serving in public safety.
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The association really works at
the intersection of professional
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development, networking, and advocacy,
and those are our three primary
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pillars that we work with through
our members across the country.
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Yeah.
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You mentioned members that weren't
necessarily part of law enforcement
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or got into more fire and corrections.
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Is there a criteria for membership?
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Yeah.
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So we look at folks that are
serving in in a professional
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staff, non-uniform, sworn position.
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And if you come to any of our
events there's always this debate on
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terminology because- … technically
anyone that serves in government is
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sworn through an oath of office, right?
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So you can't use sworn and non-sworn.
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Yeah.
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Civilian has a, a, a kind of
terminology that has significance.
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But w- we look at folks that are not
serving in what we think of as uniformed,
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sworn positions in respective agencies.
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So that opens up this whole gamut of
service in corrections, in fire and EMS.
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Emergency communications is another area
where many of our members come from.
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But but the criteria is that
you're, ser- to be a, a full member,
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to, to come from one of those
environments of government service.
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And we certainly have affiliate members
that might have been previously in
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an organization but now serve for
corporate interest or so forth.
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But within the organization, we're really
targeting folks that are working in these
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public safety environments that, that are
part of that professional staff workforce.
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Yeah.
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So you mentioned networking and
training, and those are the typical
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goals and roles for association.
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I'm curious on the advocacy portion
of this, 'cause that's a section
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that in some associations I, I don't
necessarily see as, as a goal or at
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least as a pillar, as you described.
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Talk a little bit more about that piece,
'cause again, I think that is less
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common of a role for an association.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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The National Association of
Professional Staff and Public
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Safety is registered as a 501[c][6]
professional membership association.
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And what that means is that we can engage
in advocacy on behalf of the members.
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What stands that apart from traditional
501[c][3]s, our members often come to
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us and say, "Hey, look-" The state is
looking at let's say a liability issue
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related to professional staff members.
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Would you weigh in?
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And a traditional 501[c][3]
organization is not gonna be in a
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position to, to really advocate for
the members as we might be able to do.
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And so some of the issues that we've
already looked at and weighed in on
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deal with things like work- workman
workman's compensation and liability.
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So in many states, if a sworn member
is hurt or injured on the job, they
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receive, significant benefits from
the state and protection coverage.
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But we have professional staff members
that are working in a civilian capacity
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that are responding to calls for service,
whether they're a co-responder or an
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accident investigator, and they're
out in the field doing very similar
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work from a liability perspective
to the exposure that they have.
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And some states have started to look
at this and say, we might want to
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expand coverage." Those are examples
where association can weigh in and
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say, we think that's a best practice,
and in fact, you should do that.
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It'll attract more people
into the profession.
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You'll be able to take care of people
if they're hurt and injured in, in,
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their official capacity." And so it
allows us to write letters, to reach
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out to elected officials and to take
positions on various legislative matters
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to really, advocate for our members.
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Some of the other ways that this comes
up and, and these are all case-by-case
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pieces, is really just advocating
around the culture of professional
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staff and ensuring that they're seen
as valuable and contributing members
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and equal when it comes to policies
that departments are putting out.
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In some of our conversations, we
hear about professional staff members
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really being second-class citizens
, in organizations that they serve.
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And while we're not going to take,
statements on individual personnel
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matters or individual issues we
really do serve as a body to advocate
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for ways to improve the profession.
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And part of that ensures that professional
staff members have seats at the table.
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That they have a voice, that their
leadership is listening to that.
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And ways that we can kinda convene
police chiefs and executives as we do
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at all of our regional events and to
have our professional staff members hear
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from them but also have those leaders
hear from professional staff members
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on some of the issues and challenges.
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One great example of… at, at our
last national conference someone raised
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the question about professional staff
members serving at the leadership table.
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And, we've pushed on that a bit.
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And to hear, some of the self-reflection
from the chiefs on the panel about
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ways that they might consider greater
representation of professional
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staff members, that's a piece of
what it's about, to ensure, that-
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that organizations, and particulars
organizations, move into, the next
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decade, which will get more complex
with, the really - prevalence of AI and
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all sorts of additional technologies.
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We know that the skill sets
the professional staff bring
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to the table are so critical.
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And so having them have a seat at
the table, a voice at the table
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and being really seen as key
strategic thought partners will
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be so critical for the time ahead.
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Speaking of complexity, so you mentioned
at the state level, but one of the things
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that comes up again and again on, on this
podcast is That in the US there's, what,
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17, 18,000 different police agencies.
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That can obviously is a whole other
level and complexity there for a
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national organization to be able
to respond to something that might
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just be happening at one department.
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Yeah.
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That's right.
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But, you know- … the the beauty
of American public safety is
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the joys of federalism, right?
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And you don't have one
national department.
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You don't have a single state department.
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You have the 17, 18, however many
thousand agencies across the country.
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And while the majority of our members
do come from, small, mid-size, or large
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agencies, we don't have a lot of members
in those really small agencies that
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make up so much of American policing.
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If you think about those agencies,
often it's a chief or a chief
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and a sergeant, but they don't
have a, a, a rack of analysts or
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professional staff members working.
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But certainly the mid-size
and the large agencies do.
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And so while the association isn't
trying to play Whac-A-Mole with
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individual issues that pop up around the
country, there are themes that appear.
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And when those themes appear, they can
be part of our educational programming.
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They can be part of what we write about
and what we put out on, on, various
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publications with hope that some of
those individual players are able to
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then refer to these resources as they're
thinking about their own environments.
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That's one of the purposes of our state
liaisons, and over half the states of the
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US already have a state liaison seated
within the organization, and we're still
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recruiting some of the states that don't.
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But in those, they really serve
as that connection point to help
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with those state level issues.
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And I can point to examples of, members
that have raised things that have been
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happening and where we've been able to
connect with resources and best practices
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from hiring to, how we deal with salary
and compensation, and that's a, a big
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issue because a lot of s- a lot of
agencies, there's very set schedules
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for sworn members, and the professional
staff members that are working alongside
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them tend to follow city or general
payroll schedules that, that leaves
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huge salary disparities for folks that
are serving in the same organization.
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Helping to share, how different states are
tackling this, how different jurisdictions
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are tackling this can be very helpful.
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And while this information can exist
in other forums and places this
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00:14:26,114 --> 00:14:31,024
association really is unique because
of the singular lens on professional
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staff and the professional staff focus.
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I'm gonna use civilian versus
sworn just because that's what I
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00:14:37,466 --> 00:14:43,406
normally have used on this podcast,
the idea of second-class citizens.
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And it does come up a lot.
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In fact, analysts will talk about
one of their shining moments is The
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time where they felt they got buy-in.
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Yeah.
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And how important that was to be seen
as part of the team, and to realize
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that Whether it's true or not, even
a perception of being different in
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the office can weigh on analysts.
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I'm curious, is it similar with
other professional staff Are you
255
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hearing the same thing, or is there
a different song being played?
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Yeah, no, if you close your
eyes it sounds exactly the same.
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And as you move around the country,
though, it does sound different.
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And one of the things that's
very interesting to me, we've had
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regional events so far in Miami,
Mesa, Arizona, Sacramento, Denver.
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We have one coming up in Chicago and New
York and back to Miami later this year.
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That conversation is different in
different parts of the country.
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It's different about the level of
inclusion, the level of professional
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staff members in leadership roles.
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The level that folks like data scientists
and, members of the analytical community
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are seen as thought partners versus
just a, oh, yeah, we need to get the
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report and the widget from that person.
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That does look different
in different places.
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But some of the same themes, right?
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Agencies where, a data scientist,
let's say at one agency, is not being
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included in decision-making, feels as
a second-class citizen, often doesn't
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have key access, then it probably isn't
gonna be a much different conversation
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with an HR specialist or an IT specialist
or that, that's a culture issue within
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that particular department and agency.
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Where you find some of the most
thoughtful sworn leadership they really
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understand this, and they understand
the value of different skill sets.
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And they bring, not to, flip the scale in
another direction but they really do try
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to elevate everybody within the agency.
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And part of that means going to those
folks that have the analytical skill
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sets and saying, "Hey, help me with
this problem." Or, "Can you figure
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out what problems I have and how you
can sol- solve them?" And then being
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able to leverage the sworn members
within that agency to actually carry
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out and impact some of that mission.
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And w- what I do see is that
conversation within agencies that
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have a culture that needs improvement.
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Yeah, it sounds pretty
sa- pretty much the same.
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It doesn't matter the role.
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That, that conversation is very similar.
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But I also see- that it's
so leadership dependent.
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You have new chiefs and new sheriffs
and new commissioners that come
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00:17:15,248 --> 00:17:19,148
in and very quickly they recognize
the difference that's happening.
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00:17:19,158 --> 00:17:22,648
I work very closely with many state
policing organizations, and I can
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00:17:22,648 --> 00:17:27,138
point to some examples of where you
have colonels and superintendents
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00:17:27,188 --> 00:17:31,138
that are really leveraging their
professional staff workforce.
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And they recognize the
skill sets that come in.
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00:17:34,048 --> 00:17:38,528
I can also point to departments around the
country that are really going backwards
296
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in time and, making it unpleasant places
for professional staff to work and
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00:17:43,868 --> 00:17:46,128
putting more emphasis on sworn members.
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And unfortunately, that story kind of ends
the same way every single time, right?
299
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There's broader culture issues.
300
00:17:52,788 --> 00:17:54,848
It isn't just a
professional staff culture.
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It's a culture issue of the agency.
302
00:17:57,238 --> 00:18:00,978
And if you get it right for
professional staff members, you're also
303
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getting it right for sworn members.
304
00:18:03,138 --> 00:18:06,488
But the opposite of that
isn't necessarily true.
305
00:18:06,488 --> 00:18:10,558
If you're only getting it right for
sworn members you actually are leaving a
306
00:18:10,578 --> 00:18:13,158
pretty significant gap within the agency.
307
00:18:13,158 --> 00:18:15,658
I don't think this is
an analyst problem only
308
00:18:16,206 --> 00:18:16,366
Yeah.
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00:18:16,706 --> 00:18:25,036
I'm also glad to hear that y- you're
looking into the idea of more civilians
310
00:18:25,136 --> 00:18:27,386
on leadership positions, Absolutely
311
00:18:27,386 --> 00:18:29,136
especially of executive positions.
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00:18:29,166 --> 00:18:35,346
'Cause w- one of my many soapboxes on
this podcast is that there, the analysts
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00:18:35,656 --> 00:18:40,756
progress and either they stay right in
maybe that middle tier or they go into
314
00:18:40,756 --> 00:18:45,066
the private sector and there's- Yeah
… 'cause there's nowhere to, for them to go.
315
00:18:45,066 --> 00:18:51,056
And I really feel for a monumental
shift in the profession, that we need
316
00:18:51,066 --> 00:18:56,546
more analyst leaders making their
way all the way up to the executive
317
00:18:56,636 --> 00:19:02,686
board level to really drive home some
of the changes that I'd like to see.
318
00:19:02,746 --> 00:19:05,386
I'll join you on that
soapbox for just a second.
319
00:19:05,446 --> 00:19:09,156
When we think about the role of
professional staff leaders in these
320
00:19:09,186 --> 00:19:14,106
organizations and I know, in DC we
had crime analysts and data scientists
321
00:19:14,106 --> 00:19:17,506
and we had homicide analysts and a
variety of different specializations.
322
00:19:17,506 --> 00:19:20,526
I think when you think about
that skill set there's a few
323
00:19:20,526 --> 00:19:21,546
things that come to mind.
324
00:19:21,556 --> 00:19:26,966
One, you need the ability to grow from
an entry level position into truly
325
00:19:26,966 --> 00:19:30,536
that kind of experienced veteran posi-
And that, that includes both skill
326
00:19:30,536 --> 00:19:35,456
and lateral development, but also,
some promotion within range there.
327
00:19:35,476 --> 00:19:38,936
Where you join and where you
end can't be the same place.
328
00:19:39,316 --> 00:19:43,166
But- … but there also needs to be
that opportunity to step into leadership
329
00:19:43,166 --> 00:19:44,766
and that's a different conversation.
330
00:19:44,766 --> 00:19:49,246
I've worked with amazing analysts who
have absolutely no desire to serve in
331
00:19:49,246 --> 00:19:51,526
supervisory positions, and that's great.
332
00:19:51,566 --> 00:19:56,996
We need fan- fantastic people that can do
that work, but we also need people that
333
00:19:56,996 --> 00:20:00,446
can think on the strategy level and the
coordination level and integration into
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the decision-making of the organization.
335
00:20:02,536 --> 00:20:06,966
And during my time in Washington,
DC, we absolutely had- … some
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brilliant minds that were able to
serve in those leadership capacities.
337
00:20:11,266 --> 00:20:16,246
As I thought about how to structure,
elements and units, I always thought
338
00:20:16,496 --> 00:20:20,036
that one of the best structures is you
have a sworn director and a civilian
339
00:20:20,036 --> 00:20:23,136
deputy director, and when that sworn
director moves, then you have a civilian
340
00:20:23,136 --> 00:20:25,006
director and a sworn deputy director.
341
00:20:25,336 --> 00:20:29,996
And that idea of, that continuity
of opera- by leveraging this
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more professional staff mindset.
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00:20:31,606 --> 00:20:36,006
But that takes culture and that takes-
… really supporting the idea that, un-
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unless you nee- you know, unless you
need an armed agent of the government
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who's going to be able to make power,
make arrests and/or issue warrants then
346
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a professional staff member can do that.
347
00:20:46,506 --> 00:20:50,776
And often when it comes to these
operational decision-making elements then
348
00:20:50,796 --> 00:20:55,816
you don't need you don't need a, a uniform
and a badge in order to do that, but you
349
00:20:55,816 --> 00:21:01,046
do need relevant skills and experience
and that often can be developed and
350
00:21:01,056 --> 00:21:05,316
curated through professional training and
what analysts bring into the agencies.
351
00:21:05,446 --> 00:21:05,696
Yeah.
352
00:21:05,886 --> 00:21:08,596
But a- another, I won't
assume it's a complexity.
353
00:21:09,026 --> 00:21:14,552
. Where my head's going now is unions So
this is obviously another an- another
354
00:21:14,572 --> 00:21:20,132
aspect of, again it's gonna might be
unique depending on the department,
355
00:21:20,142 --> 00:21:23,152
the state, the region of the country.
356
00:21:23,472 --> 00:21:29,582
What has been your view in terms of
trying to advocate for professional
357
00:21:29,582 --> 00:21:32,082
staffs and also dealing with the unions?
358
00:21:32,222 --> 00:21:32,372
Yeah.
359
00:21:32,662 --> 00:21:37,482
We actually have not taken any
positions on unions or really have
360
00:21:37,602 --> 00:21:41,982
not done an entire amount there
yet, but I can imagine doing that.
361
00:21:42,012 --> 00:21:44,652
I come from a very heavily
unionized environment.
362
00:21:44,722 --> 00:21:49,692
I have extremely positive
experiences working with unions.
363
00:21:50,072 --> 00:21:51,712
W- we are not a union, right?
364
00:21:51,712 --> 00:21:55,942
And so we're not sitting here to advocate
for the pay and benefits of the members.
365
00:21:56,222 --> 00:22:00,172
Though, elements of advocacy
on good practice can cross into
366
00:22:00,172 --> 00:22:03,602
there where we might be supportive
of work that unions are doing.
367
00:22:03,982 --> 00:22:07,662
And ultimately, I think there's a lot of
shared alignment in the goal of, creating
368
00:22:07,662 --> 00:22:11,462
positive work environments, ensuring that
members are appropriately compensated.
369
00:22:11,492 --> 00:22:14,602
Like, all of that, can
certainly be achieved through,
370
00:22:14,622 --> 00:22:16,142
effective collective bargaining.
371
00:22:16,442 --> 00:22:20,362
But, for our… and I recognize this
is a very state-dependent question.
372
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Some states have strong unions,
others have collective, associations,
373
00:22:24,262 --> 00:22:25,732
and some don't have anything.
374
00:22:26,112 --> 00:22:30,412
But at the end of the day we want to
ensure that professional staff members
375
00:22:30,412 --> 00:22:34,542
are well incorporated in the environments
that they are, that they're compensated
376
00:22:34,542 --> 00:22:38,092
appropriately, they're supervised
properly, they have a, a place where
377
00:22:38,092 --> 00:22:41,532
they enjoy coming to work and that they
have a place that they can contribute
378
00:22:41,532 --> 00:22:43,222
to the public safety of that community.
379
00:22:43,522 --> 00:22:46,352
And I think a lot of those
are shared goals with - unions
380
00:22:46,352 --> 00:22:48,212
and professional associations.
381
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,590
Hi, this is Christi Barletta, and
my public service announcement is
382
00:22:58,710 --> 00:23:02,260
don't be that person that goes and
sits down in someone's office to
383
00:23:02,270 --> 00:23:04,390
tell stories when it's time to leave.
384
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,480
It's not story time
when it's quitting time.
385
00:23:08,580 --> 00:23:12,620
Hi, my name is Brian Napolitano, and
I'm here to talk about name badges.
386
00:23:13,050 --> 00:23:15,860
When you're attending a training or a
conference, please make sure your name
387
00:23:15,860 --> 00:23:19,130
badge is at an appropriate height and
is legible enough so that strangers
388
00:23:19,130 --> 00:23:22,230
won't be staring where they shouldn't
just so they can figure out your name.
389
00:23:22,750 --> 00:23:23,580
Thank you for listening.
390
00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:25,540
My name is Megan Cruz.
391
00:23:25,580 --> 00:23:29,220
, I'm the Crime Analysis Supervisor
at Richmond Police, and my public
392
00:23:29,220 --> 00:23:34,970
service announcement is knowing how
much, the data and in- the information
393
00:23:34,980 --> 00:23:39,580
that crime analysts touch, applies
to everything a department does.
394
00:23:39,890 --> 00:23:45,220
Everything from media responses,
to patrol allocation, to solving
395
00:23:45,220 --> 00:23:51,390
crimes, to, overtime allocation,
that commanders really should be
396
00:23:51,740 --> 00:23:55,790
tapping their crime analysts before
they make any kind of decisions.
397
00:23:55,790 --> 00:23:58,770
Everything should be
evidence-based and data-driven.
398
00:24:04,490 --> 00:24:12,190
I recently had on the show Dr. Jessica
Herbert, who did a study on law
399
00:24:12,190 --> 00:24:14,130
enforcement analysis job postings.
400
00:24:14,140 --> 00:24:20,820
She reviewed over 800 job announcements
analyze the difference between the
401
00:24:20,830 --> 00:24:25,310
announcements and what , the position
was actually doing, came up with
402
00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:29,430
some patterns and some trends that
she's seeing throughout the country.
403
00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:35,110
We got into a pretty good discussion
talking about that that analyst role
404
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:39,470
in many departments isn't part of a
standard operating procedure, that
405
00:24:39,550 --> 00:24:44,380
the analyst is what I refer to as
this free… can be this free radical
406
00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:48,730
that can move a little bit more freely
throughout a department, working all
407
00:24:48,730 --> 00:24:52,170
the way up from the, to the chief all
the way down to the patrol person.
408
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:57,390
Some of the difficulty that arrives when
you don't have that standardization, when
409
00:24:57,390 --> 00:25:01,120
you don't have that written down, that
when police chief- you get a change in
410
00:25:01,130 --> 00:25:06,680
leadership, you get a change in analysts,
then the whole position can change, right?
411
00:25:06,810 --> 00:25:11,320
And so similar question, is that a,
a law enforcement analysis phenomenon
412
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,530
or is that something you're also
seeing with other professional staff?
413
00:25:14,740 --> 00:25:15,310
Yeah.
414
00:25:15,310 --> 00:25:18,280
I… my answer to that is
gonna be the same, right?
415
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:18,300
Yeah.
416
00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:24,060
That, that's, everybody does think they're
unique, and when you spend enough time
417
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,850
working across organizations that these
are people and process challenges and
418
00:25:28,850 --> 00:25:31,490
they're not unique to individual contexts.
419
00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:35,500
So- … so I can't give you the
unique butterfly stamp on this one.
420
00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:35,510
Yeah.
421
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:35,530
Yeah.
422
00:25:35,540 --> 00:25:40,560
But I definitely think that's a, a
common p- a common gripe that we hear.
423
00:25:40,670 --> 00:25:41,120
Yeah.
424
00:25:41,310 --> 00:25:45,940
While I think it, in terms of the
profession may be better, I actually think
425
00:25:45,940 --> 00:25:52,490
that the individual analysts may not like
it because in a lot of analysts, they get
426
00:25:52,490 --> 00:25:57,390
the position, they're just told, "There's
your computer, go do," and they have
427
00:25:57,410 --> 00:26:03,172
that opportunity to carve out whatever
position roles that they want to do.
428
00:26:03,202 --> 00:26:07,102
They ha- they have that freedom to
dictate what they're working on.
429
00:26:07,242 --> 00:26:10,872
If it's more of a, in a standard
operating procedure, they might get
430
00:26:10,872 --> 00:26:13,942
in there and they're more locked
in, they're mo- more boxed in.
431
00:26:13,942 --> 00:26:17,772
So I'm not sure the individual
analyst would actually like that,
432
00:26:17,782 --> 00:26:21,492
even though, as I said it's probably
better for the profession as a whole.
433
00:26:21,592 --> 00:26:25,872
Yeah, one of the things that's interesting
about those that serve in analytical
434
00:26:25,872 --> 00:26:32,532
positions is they do often have a more
global lens on the agency, both from the
435
00:26:32,532 --> 00:26:37,682
data perspective, but also they're more
often not buried in a component of the
436
00:26:37,682 --> 00:26:40,352
department like some other roles might be.
437
00:26:40,662 --> 00:26:43,962
But they do work across multiple
leaders, and they're seen as
438
00:26:43,962 --> 00:26:46,172
kind of a, an asset in that way.
439
00:26:46,442 --> 00:26:50,052
And that gives a lot of advantages
if they're given the autonomy
440
00:26:50,062 --> 00:26:54,132
and, and the voice in order
to, to share their expertise.
441
00:26:54,182 --> 00:26:57,992
I think the challenge for many
police leaders is they didn't
442
00:26:57,992 --> 00:26:59,742
grow up thinking about data.
443
00:26:59,792 --> 00:27:05,170
… They certainly didn't think growing up
about analysis And so for them to have
444
00:27:05,170 --> 00:27:11,370
the literacy to understand the value that
those analysts bring and how to frame
445
00:27:11,370 --> 00:27:15,900
their operational issues with a hook
that the analysts can come back to them
446
00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:20,220
with things that they then understand
how to then turn back into operational
447
00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:22,450
issues is often very challenging.
448
00:27:22,450 --> 00:27:25,460
And the analysts that do it
well make themselves really
449
00:27:25,460 --> 00:27:27,460
indispensable to the agency.
450
00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:31,040
And I can point to many examples of
where I saw that play out, where you
451
00:27:31,050 --> 00:27:36,760
had people just develop these th- this
knowledge of data that was seen as so
452
00:27:36,770 --> 00:27:39,230
critical for department operations.
453
00:27:39,270 --> 00:27:43,380
And, I think where we talk to people
that are-- have more frustration, they
454
00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:44,990
haven't gotten to that point yet, right?
455
00:27:45,050 --> 00:27:48,180
They're churning reports that they
don't feel like people are reading.
456
00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:52,350
And, e- even yesterday I was talking to
a group of analysts from the Delaware,
457
00:27:52,420 --> 00:27:56,390
Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania, kind
of the, this region of the country.
458
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,670
And I talked about kind of that level
of involvement from just simply doing
459
00:28:01,670 --> 00:28:08,450
tasks and producing reports and being
called upon for that to, to really being
460
00:28:08,450 --> 00:28:13,700
seen as a strategic advisor and what
that looks like within organizations.
461
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,100
Being called upon to actually support
and, and then… And so I described
462
00:28:18,100 --> 00:28:22,310
it as the value curve and really five
different areas in that, that task
463
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:27,220
support, the technical expertise a
person who's seen as a problem solver.
464
00:28:27,220 --> 00:28:31,240
And you see this in organizations-
… where chiefs go to, Jane or Jim
465
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,880
or whoever because they're seen as
the person that has answers, right?
466
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,760
And many analysts fall into that bucket.
467
00:28:37,020 --> 00:28:41,560
To then, on that curve, the trusted
advisor, that thought partner and then
468
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,030
for some, the strategic leader that
are serving in that leadership role and
469
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:50,194
helping to guide the agency but have
that kind of deep- analytical ben- bench.
470
00:28:50,194 --> 00:28:53,954
And I talk about that as that value
curve of members of the analytical
471
00:28:53,954 --> 00:28:56,804
community and public safety
organizations between those five areas.
472
00:28:56,904 --> 00:29:01,054
For law enforcement analysts , why
should they consider joining the
473
00:29:01,064 --> 00:29:08,024
association, and what would they gain
specifically that they wouldn't get from
474
00:29:08,024 --> 00:29:10,414
maybe analyst specific associations?
475
00:29:10,414 --> 00:29:11,714
Yeah, absolutely.
476
00:29:11,714 --> 00:29:16,304
And every association has a value add in
some way to your professional journey.
477
00:29:16,324 --> 00:29:19,054
I think what makes the National
Association of Professional Staff and
478
00:29:19,054 --> 00:29:24,894
Public Safety a unique space is it
really tackles and engages with core
479
00:29:25,124 --> 00:29:28,924
experiences of professional staff
members serving in the profession.
480
00:29:29,304 --> 00:29:32,484
While we have many members of the
analytical community, we've partnered
481
00:29:32,494 --> 00:29:36,234
with the organizations you just mentioned
on some joint webinars and so forth,
482
00:29:36,544 --> 00:29:42,074
our focus isn't just analysts, but it's
on the professional staff experience
483
00:29:42,074 --> 00:29:43,374
in a public safety environment.
484
00:29:43,374 --> 00:29:46,474
And so while you'll be able to
connect with other analysts through
485
00:29:46,474 --> 00:29:50,484
the association, the value is really
connecting with people that are serving
486
00:29:50,484 --> 00:29:54,834
in a wide range of roles, but in a
professional staff basis in public safety
487
00:29:54,834 --> 00:29:59,564
organizations, and thinking about issues
and challenges of, strategic leadership,
488
00:29:59,594 --> 00:30:04,634
strategic planning, technology, and things
that touch upon the work that analysts
489
00:30:04,634 --> 00:30:10,172
do but in a broad base- association
that has so many different skill sets.
490
00:30:10,412 --> 00:30:15,362
Many people that we talk to in particular
that are analysts say, "Look I'm enjoying
491
00:30:15,362 --> 00:30:19,782
what I'm doing, but I don't wanna do this
forever." And they want to have a career
492
00:30:19,782 --> 00:30:21,392
in public safety where they move up.
493
00:30:21,402 --> 00:30:25,412
One of our board members started
as a, as an analyst with the NYPD
494
00:30:25,412 --> 00:30:28,552
and left as a very senior leader
in that organization, right?
495
00:30:28,842 --> 00:30:31,712
And that journey didn't come
from just being an analyst.
496
00:30:31,722 --> 00:30:35,102
It came from kind of the other skill
sets and taking that analytical
497
00:30:35,352 --> 00:30:39,292
experience, but then really becoming
that trusted advisor and that strategic
498
00:30:39,292 --> 00:30:40,842
leader within that organization.
499
00:30:41,142 --> 00:30:45,072
And that's where, our association
can help people as they move up
500
00:30:45,072 --> 00:30:46,762
and move on in their careers.
501
00:30:46,782 --> 00:30:50,872
It can connect them to a whole
host of national players beyond
502
00:30:50,872 --> 00:30:52,562
just the analytical community.
503
00:30:52,842 --> 00:30:55,222
But they'll find plenty of
analysts that, and those that
504
00:30:55,222 --> 00:30:58,562
are in supervisory positions too
within the association as well.
505
00:30:58,892 --> 00:31:01,892
Look it's $100 a year
to join to be a member.
506
00:31:01,932 --> 00:31:06,412
And part of that is being able to be
connected with an organization that's
507
00:31:06,412 --> 00:31:08,282
bigger than yourself and your agency.
508
00:31:08,282 --> 00:31:12,082
It's connected to, the events that we do-
… with the materials that we put out.
509
00:31:12,112 --> 00:31:16,792
And for many of our members, it's
just the belief that they want to see
510
00:31:16,792 --> 00:31:18,962
this exist and they want this space.
511
00:31:19,312 --> 00:31:23,302
And, I hope in time we'll
provide value to them that's
512
00:31:23,302 --> 00:31:24,842
equivalent to their membership.
513
00:31:24,852 --> 00:31:29,612
But for many people, they're just
really hungry for for the ability
514
00:31:29,622 --> 00:31:33,792
and the unique nature of what the
association does and serves, in that
515
00:31:33,792 --> 00:31:38,172
capacity for professional development,
advocacy, and networking for those
516
00:31:38,192 --> 00:31:40,052
professional staff members and leaders.
517
00:31:40,052 --> 00:31:42,062
And we appreciate our members.
518
00:31:42,102 --> 00:31:46,422
Members get discounts on any of the events
that they go to because they are members.
519
00:31:46,742 --> 00:31:50,202
But more than that, they're part of
a national movement to really advance
520
00:31:50,422 --> 00:31:54,152
the interest of professional staff
and that we see as, as the value.
521
00:31:54,322 --> 00:31:57,892
So that's what the analysts
can get out of the association.
522
00:31:58,032 --> 00:32:02,956
Talk a little bit about How the analysts
can help the association and contribute
523
00:32:03,126 --> 00:32:04,316
Yeah, absolutely.
524
00:32:04,356 --> 00:32:07,506
We leverage the skill set of
our members that are within.
525
00:32:07,566 --> 00:32:11,326
And so whether it's a topic that
they're connected and can talk about,
526
00:32:11,336 --> 00:32:14,696
we have a whole series called Leadership
in Practice, two to three-minute
527
00:32:14,706 --> 00:32:16,876
videos that are on various topics.
528
00:32:16,906 --> 00:32:20,326
We'd love to have members
of the analytical world give
529
00:32:20,326 --> 00:32:21,336
a Leadership in Practice.
530
00:32:21,346 --> 00:32:22,366
How do they use data?
531
00:32:22,366 --> 00:32:23,906
How do they help decision-making?
532
00:32:23,906 --> 00:32:26,806
What are some of those pieces of advice
that they have to someone coming in?
533
00:32:27,126 --> 00:32:30,056
Give us that video that we can post
out, and that's all public content.
534
00:32:30,066 --> 00:32:32,536
We don't put that behind the
membership wall because we think
535
00:32:32,536 --> 00:32:35,746
it's good for everybody- … but
it's supported by the membership.
536
00:32:36,056 --> 00:32:40,226
We have white papers and if folks want
to write about an issue or topic or
537
00:32:40,226 --> 00:32:43,886
share research that they're doing that
they think might be replicable, we can
538
00:32:43,886 --> 00:32:46,446
be a forum to help distribute that.
539
00:32:46,466 --> 00:32:50,476
But we benefit from the contributions
as well, and that relevancy and
540
00:32:50,476 --> 00:32:53,196
currency of the information of
what's happening in the field.
541
00:32:53,196 --> 00:32:55,256
So it's a mutual experience.
542
00:32:55,256 --> 00:32:59,536
We leverage our members very highly
and, … and we're very fortunate whenever
543
00:32:59,536 --> 00:33:03,416
they call to pull us into something that
they're working on in their jurisdiction.
544
00:33:03,586 --> 00:33:08,316
You talked a little bit about
conferences and online calls.
545
00:33:08,466 --> 00:33:12,584
What about some of the other aspects
of- that are typical with association
546
00:33:12,584 --> 00:33:16,964
mentoring, certifications anything else
that would, fall out of the purview
547
00:33:16,964 --> 00:33:18,234
that we haven't talked about already?
548
00:33:18,344 --> 00:33:18,614
Yeah.
549
00:33:18,614 --> 00:33:20,154
So we're a baby association.
550
00:33:20,154 --> 00:33:21,724
We're just over a year.
551
00:33:21,734 --> 00:33:25,214
Yeah And while we have many ideas
of certification courses and so
552
00:33:25,214 --> 00:33:28,744
forth, right now the majority of
that is in areas of partnership.
553
00:33:28,744 --> 00:33:31,724
So we just partnered between the
University of Virginia, the National
554
00:33:31,724 --> 00:33:34,754
Association of Pro- Professional Staff
and Public Safety, and the Global
555
00:33:34,754 --> 00:33:39,864
Chief of Staff Association on a unique
certification course for chiefs of staff.
556
00:33:39,914 --> 00:33:43,554
And we just actually have
finished about 50 folks through
557
00:33:43,564 --> 00:33:45,044
the level one certification.
558
00:33:45,044 --> 00:33:46,824
We have another program later this year.
559
00:33:47,114 --> 00:33:50,784
But we envision individual
certification courses becoming
560
00:33:50,784 --> 00:33:52,554
available through the association.
561
00:33:52,894 --> 00:33:54,764
But might not be in year one or two.
562
00:33:54,794 --> 00:33:57,084
Those might be a little
bit further down the road.
563
00:33:57,434 --> 00:33:59,904
But definitely something
to stay tuned for.
564
00:34:00,134 --> 00:34:05,054
When it comes to, any sort of kind of
licensure and those pieces again we're
565
00:34:05,054 --> 00:34:07,364
so new that we're still developing that.
566
00:34:07,384 --> 00:34:11,374
And frankly the interests have
primarily been around convening.
567
00:34:11,374 --> 00:34:15,824
And in each of our regional events,
it's been amazing to watch that so many
568
00:34:15,824 --> 00:34:20,534
people don't know others in agencies
that are just a short distance away.
569
00:34:20,544 --> 00:34:22,304
Or even within their agency.
570
00:34:22,304 --> 00:34:25,654
We were just at one regional event,
and people who'd worked together for
571
00:34:25,654 --> 00:34:29,134
15 years had never met each other
in person because they worked in
572
00:34:29,134 --> 00:34:30,534
different parts of the state, right?
573
00:34:30,534 --> 00:34:32,104
But they worked for the same organization.
574
00:34:32,104 --> 00:34:35,444
So being able to have that
forum is really rewarding.
575
00:34:35,584 --> 00:34:35,814
Yeah.
576
00:34:36,264 --> 00:34:38,254
I, and I just thought of something.
577
00:34:38,634 --> 00:34:43,644
So is… Do you have a nickname
for the association, or do you say
578
00:34:43,654 --> 00:34:47,024
N-A-P-S-P-S, or that- How does that go?
579
00:34:47,024 --> 00:34:48,984
I should, that should've been
one of my first questions.
580
00:34:48,984 --> 00:34:50,084
I, that's a newbie.
581
00:34:50,084 --> 00:34:50,094
Yeah.
582
00:34:50,094 --> 00:34:53,354
That's a newbie podcaster right there,
waiting this long into the interview.
583
00:34:53,754 --> 00:34:54,124
Yeah.
584
00:34:54,124 --> 00:34:57,104
So I usually say the National
Association of Professional Staff
585
00:34:57,104 --> 00:34:59,044
and Public Safety, or NAP SPS.
586
00:34:59,124 --> 00:34:59,434
Yeah.
587
00:35:00,064 --> 00:35:02,714
We'll hear every once in a
while NAPSPSS, but, … that
588
00:35:02,714 --> 00:35:04,674
definitely is not what we go by.
589
00:35:04,714 --> 00:35:09,354
But NAP SPS, or the National Association
of Professional Staff and Public Safety.
590
00:35:09,404 --> 00:35:12,364
It's long, but when you look at
law enforcement associations,
591
00:35:12,364 --> 00:35:13,444
they all tend to be.
592
00:35:13,454 --> 00:35:13,474
Yeah.
593
00:35:13,674 --> 00:35:16,154
We fit right in with the the long acronym.
594
00:35:16,154 --> 00:35:20,444
But NAP SPS, or the National Association
of Professional Staff and Public Safety.
595
00:35:20,454 --> 00:35:20,714
I got it.
596
00:35:20,714 --> 00:35:21,014
That'll work.
597
00:35:21,014 --> 00:35:21,494
Okay.
598
00:35:21,494 --> 00:35:21,724
Yeah.
599
00:35:21,724 --> 00:35:24,324
I did see… And also I did
see on the website where you
600
00:35:24,334 --> 00:35:27,964
had a, a webinar on sleep.
601
00:35:28,114 --> 00:35:28,644
Yeah.
602
00:35:28,694 --> 00:35:31,934
The, the nap jokes on that
one just write itself.
603
00:35:32,264 --> 00:35:32,954
Yep, yep.
604
00:35:32,984 --> 00:35:36,534
No, and we didn't use that
in any of our teasers for it,
605
00:35:36,534 --> 00:35:38,074
but they do write themselves.
606
00:35:38,154 --> 00:35:41,774
. Is there a particular initiative
or project that you're most excited
607
00:35:41,784 --> 00:35:43,104
to work on over the next year?
608
00:35:43,264 --> 00:35:48,114
.
What excites me with the association
is the momentum of the members.
609
00:35:48,124 --> 00:35:51,644
And we just have so many unique
projects that we're working on
610
00:35:51,694 --> 00:35:56,064
nationally and internationally for
the association that are rewarding.
611
00:35:56,354 --> 00:35:59,634
Next year we'll even have more regional
events all around the country and
612
00:35:59,644 --> 00:36:03,924
just the energy in the room at every
one of them has been incredible.
613
00:36:04,224 --> 00:36:08,914
We were fortunate this year, we brought
representatives from the association
614
00:36:08,914 --> 00:36:13,134
to Poland to be a part of a law
enforcement delegation looking at law
615
00:36:13,134 --> 00:36:16,424
enforcement's role in, in Nazi Germany
and the Holocaust, and some of the
616
00:36:16,424 --> 00:36:21,164
atrocities that occurred, and NAPPS was
represented there on the global stage.
617
00:36:21,434 --> 00:36:26,364
But as we look at the year ahead there's
just a lot of ways that we'll continue
618
00:36:26,404 --> 00:36:32,064
to expand the networking work, the
advocacy work creating unique products
619
00:36:32,064 --> 00:36:34,524
that are valuable to association members.
620
00:36:34,524 --> 00:36:37,844
So all of that is active work
that the association is doing.
621
00:36:38,254 --> 00:36:42,614
For those that are listening we
will put links in the show notes for
622
00:36:42,624 --> 00:36:48,084
additional information the webinars that
we talked about how to get involved,
623
00:36:48,094 --> 00:36:51,314
how to join, all that information.
624
00:36:51,364 --> 00:36:54,354
So check that out if you're interested.
625
00:36:54,574 --> 00:36:58,344
I have just four or five real
quick questions to end here, Ben.
626
00:36:58,344 --> 00:36:59,204
This has been great.
627
00:36:59,204 --> 00:37:02,494
Appreciate y- all your time and
contributions to this episode.
628
00:37:02,644 --> 00:37:08,678
Of course the first one is, what is one
misconception about the association?
629
00:37:08,838 --> 00:37:11,728
One misconception about the association.
630
00:37:11,758 --> 00:37:15,558
The misconception about the association
is it's been around for a long time.
631
00:37:15,558 --> 00:37:16,858
It hasn't, it's new.
632
00:37:16,868 --> 00:37:16,888
Yeah.
633
00:37:17,368 --> 00:37:18,728
We contend with that.
634
00:37:18,758 --> 00:37:24,458
And I think, the, the other misconception
is that it's a bunch of professional staff
635
00:37:24,458 --> 00:37:27,038
members that complain about sworn members.
636
00:37:27,438 --> 00:37:29,348
And that's not true, right?
637
00:37:29,388 --> 00:37:35,198
At the end of the day, what we've
seen is a ton of interest from sworn
638
00:37:35,198 --> 00:37:40,198
members as well in, creating the
space to work and improve cultures of
639
00:37:40,198 --> 00:37:44,118
organizations and that's both on the
sworn side and professional staff side.
640
00:37:44,498 --> 00:37:48,068
And I think we've created unique
opportunities at each of our events
641
00:37:48,328 --> 00:37:52,088
for members who do wear the badge and
those that don't to come together and
642
00:37:52,088 --> 00:37:54,118
tackle some of these joint issues.
643
00:37:54,118 --> 00:37:57,738
We do it through fireside chats and
others, but that might be a misconception.
644
00:37:57,908 --> 00:38:03,838
What's maybe one benefit that maybe is
unexpected or surprises the members?
645
00:38:03,948 --> 00:38:04,248
Yeah.
646
00:38:04,248 --> 00:38:08,998
I think the the energy that you feel
at any of the convenings… I've
647
00:38:08,998 --> 00:38:12,098
been to a lot of law enforcement
conferences- … a lot of law
648
00:38:12,098 --> 00:38:17,048
enforcement conferences all around
the country, but these feel different.
649
00:38:17,178 --> 00:38:21,408
And the energy in the room when you get
a bunch of professional staff members
650
00:38:21,408 --> 00:38:26,348
together that care so deeply about their
organizations and the profession that,
651
00:38:26,348 --> 00:38:28,588
that surprises me every single time.
652
00:38:28,588 --> 00:38:31,688
And I keep saying to our team, I'm
like, "I don't know why I'm surprised
653
00:38:31,688 --> 00:38:35,138
by this. I've been through it enough
now to know that this is what to
654
00:38:35,138 --> 00:38:39,738
expect." But every time, the energy,
the enthusiasm, the motivation, and
655
00:38:39,748 --> 00:38:44,708
just the genuine desire to do good you
very much feel that with this audience.
656
00:38:45,158 --> 00:38:48,158
And then, Best networking
advice for a new analyst?
657
00:38:48,308 --> 00:38:48,798
Yeah.
658
00:38:48,858 --> 00:38:54,018
So some of the best lessons in my career
weren't learned from my agency, but it was
659
00:38:54,028 --> 00:38:55,918
learned from partners around the country.
660
00:38:55,928 --> 00:38:59,258
While I was serving as both the executive
director in the professional development
661
00:38:59,258 --> 00:39:04,788
space and then the chief of staff for the
agency during 2020 and 2021, some really
662
00:39:04,788 --> 00:39:11,118
tumultuous times in DC I had many people
across the country that I could call upon
663
00:39:11,428 --> 00:39:13,078
and say, "Hey, are you dealing with this?
664
00:39:13,088 --> 00:39:16,978
How are you looking at this issue?" And
to be able to have that national and
665
00:39:16,978 --> 00:39:19,918
international network at your fingertips.
666
00:39:19,948 --> 00:39:22,988
We have a membership directory
that folks can go in and search for
667
00:39:22,988 --> 00:39:25,348
other folks and connect with them.
668
00:39:25,348 --> 00:39:27,988
We have a variety of other
tools to help with those kind
669
00:39:27,988 --> 00:39:29,638
of partnerships and pairings.
670
00:39:29,688 --> 00:39:31,278
That's incredibly beneficial.
671
00:39:31,278 --> 00:39:35,248
And what I would tell people in
particular new professional staff
672
00:39:35,248 --> 00:39:39,328
members, is you have to get out and
see how other agencies are doing it.
673
00:39:39,328 --> 00:39:42,248
To your point earlier, you have
18,000 different agencies, that's
674
00:39:42,248 --> 00:39:43,928
18,000 different approaches.
675
00:39:44,338 --> 00:39:47,798
And, the best ideas are often
borrowed or stolen being able to
676
00:39:47,798 --> 00:39:51,988
understand how others are doing it,
adapt that within your own context.
677
00:39:52,318 --> 00:39:55,428
Don't just sit in a silo and,
"Hey, this is the way our agency
678
00:39:55,428 --> 00:39:59,148
does it or has to do it." But get
that kind of broader perspective.
679
00:39:59,148 --> 00:40:02,378
It'll help you understand why
you do certain things within your
680
00:40:02,378 --> 00:40:04,468
agency or refine those practices.
681
00:40:04,638 --> 00:40:05,058
All right.
682
00:40:05,058 --> 00:40:09,688
And lastly, finish this sentence,
professional staff are…
683
00:40:09,818 --> 00:40:14,838
Professional staff members are
extraordinarily motivated, dedicated
684
00:40:14,888 --> 00:40:18,608
and care about advancing public
safety in the communities they serve.
685
00:40:18,678 --> 00:40:19,498
They're my heroes.
686
00:40:19,838 --> 00:40:21,428
Ben, fantastic.
687
00:40:21,428 --> 00:40:25,868
Thank you again for your time
and contribution here today.
688
00:40:25,898 --> 00:40:27,718
This has really been great.
689
00:40:27,948 --> 00:40:32,548
As I mentioned, I will put into
the show notes all the information
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00:40:32,558 --> 00:40:36,158
for the listeners for those that
are interested in this association.
691
00:40:36,398 --> 00:40:38,648
So thank you again, and you be safe.
692
00:40:38,748 --> 00:40:39,500
Thanks so much
693
00:40:39,550 --> 00:40:41,890
Thank you for making it to
the end of another episode of
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00:40:41,890 --> 00:40:43,270
Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
695
00:40:43,330 --> 00:40:46,780
You can show your support by sharing
this and other episodes found on
696
00:40:46,780 --> 00:40:46,910
our website@www.leapodcasts.com.
697
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,430
If you have a topic you would like
us to cover or have a suggestion
698
00:40:54,430 --> 00:40:56,870
for our next guest, please send us
an email at LEApodcasts@gmail.com
699
00:40:59,145 --> 00:41:01,120
Till next time, analysts, keep talking.