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I was just in a void of spirituality.
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And then a friend of mine, became Christian, and he said, "Oh, I met Jesus."
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And I thought, "Oh no, poor guy, I need to help him."
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They spoke about Jesus.
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They spoke about the love of God.
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What just happened to you, I want you to share it to the world."
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the biggest common denominator that we have is Jesus.
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Let's do something for the 2,000 anniversary of the resurrection that is beautiful, colorful, youthful.
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The risen Jesus.
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Dream big.
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And then start small.
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Start today.
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Well, Olivier, welcome to the podcast.
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It's great to have you with us Hello, Jason.
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Hello, everyone.
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It's a joy to be with you So, Olivier, you joined us at the fourth congress, and you know that there's something that is really important to us as a Lausanne Movement, is that of collaboration, that of unifying together to proclaim the gospel and take it to the ends of the earth, to complete the great commission together.
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And what I'm really looking forward to in this conversation and why I'm so glad to have you on the podcast, is that you have dedicated so much of your time and your energy to this idea of unifying together as a global church.
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And so you've got this initiative, JC 2033, that, I'm looking forward to unpack with you.
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But before we dive too deeply too quickly, I would love to hear your story.
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So for those of us who are meeting you for the first time, could you share a bit of your journey with us and how Jesus has inspired you for mission and for the kingdom? Yeah, I was born, raised, and saved in Geneva, Switzerland.
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Beautiful city and with an incredible history.
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But believe it or not, as I grew up in a Catholic family, we never, ever spoke about Jesus, and in the class or in the schools or in the street, nobody spoke to me about Jesus, ever.
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So I really grew up as a full atheist.
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I didn't know what to believe.
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I was just in a void of spirituality.
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And then a friend of mine, became Christian, and he said, "Oh, I met Jesus."
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And I thought, "Oh, no, poor guy, I need to help him."
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And then he said, "Oh, I'm gonna do a YWAM school, a DTS, disciple training school."
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And I said, "Oh no, you're gonna become a monk."
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I'd really tried to help him going out of this, problem, the Jesus problem.
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And then he did, an outreach in the city of Geneva by the lake.
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Beautiful place.
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They spoke about Jesus.
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They spoke about the love of God.
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And they asked the question, "Who would like to become Christian? Who need Jesus in their heart?" And for me, it was such a strange concept to have Jesus in your heart, but after three call I raised my hand just to try Jesus, because I have tried a lot of stuff.
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I, I was 16, almost 16 at that time, and I had already tried several stuff.
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and I raised my hand, and they prayed for me.
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So I had absolutely zero, zero understanding of the Bible, of, of God of His love.
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And then I receive physically His love over my body.
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I could feel the warmth and like a beautiful water that came on my body, and I heard something with my ears.
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And I was not influenced by anything because I was blank.
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And I heard something saying, What just happened to you, I want you to share it to the world."
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And I was just like, "Oh who said that?" And the guy who were praying for me they said, "What are you talking about?" And I said, heard a voice.
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Who spoke that?" And they said, "Oh, it must be God."
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And for me, I did my catechism in five second.
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God exists.
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He listen to our prayer.
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He answer our prayer.
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He love us.
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And I was just like, "Oh, wow, I'm in."
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And I have m- already my calling to share the gospel to the world.
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That is how it started.
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And I, I, I could not help it.
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I had to speak out about my faith to my friends, to the n- nearby Catholic church, Reformed church, and then I went to an evangelical and then Pentecostal church at the same time.
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I was full on from day one.
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Wow.
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It's they're still going to be Wow.
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You know, it, it's so beautiful to, to hear the origin stories of leaders, and how every story seems to be different, although it leads to the same person, which is Jesus Christ.
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I love that God gave you the calling straight away.
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And from the beginning it sounds that you have been able to connect and have been called to connect with leaders from many different denominations and areas and regions.
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By God's talk about, By God's grace.
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absolutely.
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For someone just hearing about JC 2033, how would you describe what JC 2033 is? So first of all, the name JC, it's not Jean Claude, it's Jesus Christ 2033.
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Yeah we wanna focus on Jesus, on what Jesus did.
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A- did.
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A- and, and I think the idea or the revelation of the intuition I received was really the resurrection.
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So we want to celebrate 2,000 years of the resurrection of Jesus.
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Of course, you cannot speak about the resurrection without the cross.
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You cannot speak about the resurrection without the incarnation.
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So we think at the whole gospel but the focus point is, wow, he is alive, and I think that brings something new.
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So we want to celebrate 2,000 years of the resurrection, but it's not an event.
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Because if it's an event I'm not in.
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I'm not interested.
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It's a movement, a movement that started almost 20 years ago on my side.
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and I tried to bridge people to say, "Guys, there is an incredible anniversary coming up.
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What should we do together? Could we do it together?" Because when I received this idea, and I'll speak to, to that a bit later, I really thought unity was something very important.
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So I thought, "Who are the guys we need to bring together for the world Christianity reaching out to the world?" And that was a crazy faith journey that started in 2007.
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And I'm still on.
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So it's a movement where we have Jesus, the risen one, at the center.
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Panel, maybe if I can help you to imagine how could that you know that he talk, For the day the resurrection day, in 2033, Be in that is the 17th of April.
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I hope we will have street parties.
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We will have multicultural concert.
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We will have march for Jesus, Easter parade, concert, wha- whatever, to make sure the church is delivering the message to the world.
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So it's not at all to say, "Oh, let's do in our church a little party," and say, "We know the truth," and they don't know.
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It's really how the church, who knows the truth, who knows the risen one, go and turn out of our church to the world and say, "Have you heard the story?" And this is really the story of the disciple when they receive this message, "He is risen."
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They say, They could not hold it.
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They could not stay without saying it.
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So they went back to Jerusalem to say to the apostle and say, "He's really risen.
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We walked with him.
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We break bread with him.
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He is really risen."
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you know, I mean, This just speaks to the heart that we have as a movement.
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We wanna see the whole church take the whole gospel to the whole world, and if there was ever a time where that should be part of our focus, it's at that 2,000-year mark of celebrating Christ his death and his resurrection.
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this is, It's such a beautiful vision and, and I love that, you're not just talking about trying to get the church to host an event together, but it's about a process.
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It's about, the whole church taking the whole gospel to the whole world, being out in the world celebrating together like one big family reunion.
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So talk to us about the vision.
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Like how did God capture your heart with this vision so deeply? I was already 10 years in ministry full time from 1997 to 2007, and then some stuff happened, and my wife really thought it was time for us to have a break, to have a moment to refocus on Jesus.
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I appreciate the ministry was going well.
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I was not in burnout at all.
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that I'll be back next week.
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was really surfing on the wave but really the Lord stopped me, and he said, "I have something new for you."
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And that was in 2006 when he started to really stop us.
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So we went January 2007 in Sydney, Australia to do a Bible course think CJ's, a church for a year.
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And really my attitude was, "Look, Lord I'm available.
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I don't know if you can use me with what I have in my hand, which is very little, but use me.
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The ministry was going well, very well.
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Money was there, preaching beautiful churches, staff and all that.
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But then he really stopped the thing supernaturally and I thought this cannot be God.
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Must be the enemy."
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But it was God.
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And then we went to this Bible school.
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And for me, it was really a moment of laying down my life, my ministry, my aspiration.
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I said to the Lord, "You know what? Have me.
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Do whatever you want with me."
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And one morning, I had this burning bush experience.
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I'm not sure if that's the right word.
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It was those kind of moment that you cannot prepare.
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you c- You cannot really pray about it, but it just went.
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And for three hours I was with Jesus.
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I was not in the heavenly.
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No, I was fully there.
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I, I, I could really interact with people but, but My spirit was in a very sensitive mode, and I started to see things.
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And I'm not a crazy Pentecostal.
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I'm a normal evangelical, you know? and I'm Swiss, by the way.
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I'm really down to earth, But I started to see the globe like I was on the moon, and I saw explosion of life coming from the ground to the sky, and it was so powerful.
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I was astonished, and I said, "Oh wow.
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Jesus, what is that?" And then I saw a Wow crowd, a huge crowd of people, and I knew they were from every churches, every age, every ethnical backgrounds.
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And I said, "Lord what are they doing?" And I heard in my chest, in my spirit, I heard, "This is my people, and they are worshiping me for the 2,000 anniversary of the resurrection."
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And I receive in my face like a train, And I had a specific moment.
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I will not say it, it was a near-death experience, because it wasn't.
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But it was something where I started to see my whole life and where God touched me, came to me, and spoke to me with the word of God, and I thought, "He was preparing me even before I was a Christian for such a time as this, for such a task as this."
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And it's so humbling.
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It's so humbling because you cannot be like, "Oh, yeah, okay, I had the Grail."
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No.
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It's like, "Wow, how could you use a very little man like me for one little pieces of the huge puzzle of the global church to impact the world?" And I cried.
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I cried for hours because I was under the love and under the calling of the Lord.
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And you know what? In few months, it will be 20 years.
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I still have the fuel for that.
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I'm still over-enthusiastic, ready to face battle because I'm still flying out of this burning bush moment for me Olivier, I, I, I'm really keen to hear about your journey from, from that moment 20 years ago to where you find yourself now and, and how God has led you in this journey.
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But before we, get into that I wanna ask if you would take a moment just to chat to the younger leaders or emerging leaders that are listening to this, the leaders who are in the position that you were in 20 years ago, wrestling with your calling, wondering What, God is calling you to do.
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What advice do you have for emerging leaders like that? If you think that the Lord is asking you something that is much bigger than what you can do, it's way possible it is the Lord.
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And then waiting for approval for a vision that people have not received for them, but you have received it, it will be unlikely that a lot of people will give you their approval and their thumbs up.
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So the truth is, you need to start.
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You need to start small, and do your credentials, and do your training, and do whatever you need to do.
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Because in the small thing, that is where the Lord will put the spot on you, and other people and leaders will say, "Oh, this guy, he's serious, and maybe his big calling is not a, a joke."
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And you know what? Today reaping 30 years of sowing and you need to sow.
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And sowing is not fun.
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You don't see the fruits, but you go to the field and you sow.
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And in my case, you travel, and you travel, and you meet people.
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And sometimes they are not happy, and sometimes they're thinking, "Who are you? What kind of denomination are you coming from? And what is the big organization behind you?" "I have none."
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"Oh, why are you speaking to me?" So it's a huge journey of humility.
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And you need to start small.
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And you know what? then you have the God factor coming in.
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I'm not sure if that's the right word, but you do faithfully what the Lord ask you to do, and then bang, you have God who puts the wind of the Spirit on you, and then you fly.
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Those days we are in the World Cup.
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You cannot believe that anyone will score a goal if he's not on the field.
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You wanna have success, you need to be on the field.
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You wanna score a goal, you need to be there.
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And you know what? One day, one place, you will be at the right moment, at the right place, and then you're gonna score your spiritual goal.
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But you need to go to the practice every week You need to be faithful for years, and then the opportunity of the Lord will come.
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So be faithful, be humble Even if you have a big vision, be humble, start small, and you will see the Lord is doing it.
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walk us through that.
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I mean, you're speaking about being on the field, being faithful, starting small, being humble.
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Tell us how that played out in your journey, over the past 20 years.
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If you have any stories, I would love to hear them again I'm not one of those crazy super spiritual guy, but when you have such a vision with such an intensity, and you share that with some people you have a bit of adversity, you have a bit of questioning, and you need to be straight in your boots.
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You need to be good with your heart and with your Lord and your relationship with God to say, "No," "despite this person doesn't like what I'm saying, doesn't like what I'm doing, Lord go to my heart.
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Tell me if my heart is wrong."
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How do you say that in English? Uh, you have this, this beautiful text um, to say, "Lord I wanna be straight with you, and this person doesn't like me or doesn't like the vision, doesn't like the idea, the movement, and it's okay," you know? and you know what? Perseverance is something that in this age you scroll, you quit you jump to another thing.
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But the truth is, if you are faithful, and not over hours, over weeks, over month, over decade, we are talking about decades then really the Lord has the time to work on your heart and to work on your relationship.
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And those days I have hundreds, not thousands connection around the world in more than 120 countries and we believe in each other, we trust each other, we love each other and we do ministry together.
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So praise God.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I'm just reminded of the scripture that says, "Don't despise the day of small beginnings."
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And that call to faithfulness, being on the field, playing the game that God has placed in front of you it's so helpful.
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Ol- Olivier, uh, a- as we're speaking about this idea of celebrating the resurrection, Yes Christians celebrate the resurrection every year.
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Why do you believe God gave you that vision for the 2,000th anniversary of the resurrection? And why is that worth paying attention to? I think intuitively I, I, I can suppose the answer.
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But why do you believe it's worth paying attention to? And for the church leaders listening why should they stop and say "Well, we, we do this every year.
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We are gonna celebrate Easter on April, the 17th of April, 2033 anyway.
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Why should we think about doing anything with anyone else if the system works?" Yeah.
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Or what you just say, the system works.
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I think it doesn't work.
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It does not work.
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Because the world need to know and the worst-case scenario for 2033 will be that we do the same, meaning we go to our church, we have a nice service, and we say, "Wow, that was a beautiful celebration for the 2,000 anniversary."
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This is not why we are on earth for.
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No.
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Yes we should celebrate together with brother and sister, of course.
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I, I'm a churchgoer.
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I love the church, and I think the church is one of the best place to raise up disciple and everything.
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But we are not here for us, we are here for them.
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And if this 2,000 anniversary, which is only an opportunity, and the worst is we don't even know if that's the right date.
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But it's an opportunity to celebrate and the word celebration for some is a bit of a tricky one in English because we think, "Oh, let's do a celebration," and we think it's a church celebration.
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And I would say, no, look at the Olympic Games.
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the first day they do a big party with art and music and color and us coming out of reformation, we have tried to put everything that is art, that is beautiful, that is colorful and we want to be serious, you know? I went to an Orthodox monk one day, and I said, "Why all your icons with Jesus, he's never smiling?" And he look at me and he could not really answer, and he said, "Because faith is serious."
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And I thought, "Yes, it is serious, but it's also fun.
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It is also beautiful.
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It's, also moment of joy," you know? and I think us coming out of Reformation and coming out of the Evangelical world, sometimes we're way too serious.
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Let's do something for the 2,000 anniversary of the resurrection that is beautiful, colorful, youthful.
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Let's have the children shouting, and let's have elderly people with family, and let's have the church having a beautiful smell and a beautiful attraction where people say, "What is their message? What is what they have I don't have? Why are they so joyful? Why do they have hope?" And hope is something that the world cannot grasp.
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We have hope because of the resurrection, hope of a new life today but also hope for eternity and the world doesn't have that.
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And so let's not do what we have done.
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Let's do it differently for the world.
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and, and it's on- only an opportunity.
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You can do that every Easter.
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But by the way, should we really celebrate the resurrection once a year, or should we celebrate every morning? I live by a forest, and every morning, the birds are singing.
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I have to put earplugs because they are so loud.
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Why are they singing? And I think maybe the answer is because they give the glory to Jesus.
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Maybe not, but I think, why are we on Earth? Worship is one of the thing, and worship, art, music, beauty is way more attractive than sometimes our preaching Yeah.
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I think of Jesus' entrance into Jerusalem on the Yeah think of Jesus' entrance into Jerusalem on the week of his death.
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And, the Pharisees saying, "Hey, can you stop these people from praising you?" And he says, "If they don't praise me, the rocks will cry out."
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And I sense the same kind of enthusiasm coming from you about how we need to be celebrating.
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Why are the birds singing? 'Cause they're bringing glory to God, and we need to be doing the same Jason, imagine we are celebrating an anniversary which is 2,000 years and grasp that, and we have 8 billion invitees.
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The world is invited celebrate, to realize that Christ is dead and he rose again.
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Is that not a good party that we should do something? Absolutely.
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I've seen that you have three words that seem to really stick out.
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the One is celebration, which you've spoken about quite a bit, but the other is unity and witness, which you have alluded to, but I would love for you to take a little bit more time just to speak into why these three words, unity, witness, and celebration, are so central to what JC 2033 is trying to achieve so we were really working with professional to try to think what is our unique selling point? What is what we bring to the church, and we thought, yeah, unity yes, witness to the world, and yes, celebration of course.
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And then as we were walking, I was reading John 17, and it hit me so strongly.
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Jesus is praying the Father for us to be together, for us to be united, first of all, unity.
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And then unity is not for the sake of unity, is for the sake of the world.
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Then the world will know, and then the world will believe.
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So unity is a key element for the witness to the world.
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And then he continue and he said, "And that will bring the glory."
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The glory to us? How come? I still need to understand that, but also, give the glory to him What we will do in our lifetime, with or without JC 2033, should have those component: unity, witness, and glory, celebration.
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And that is how it started really in our hearts to say, "Yeah, it is a fully John 17 thing."
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But then, yes we can speak about a bit more what is witness, what is, so witness, let me just say that for many years I thought we need to be in mission," and I was the head of Youth with a Mission, Switzerland, for 10 years.
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And yes, I was fully into mission, for sure, and I was fully into evangelize the world, but when we talk about evangelizing, we talk about a discourse a, a preaching to convince the other.
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And I think we are missing, something that Jesus is asking us to do, to be witness, and I think it's very different.
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Witness is coming from me, my story, and I'll tell you my story.
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So you can be rude and say, "I don't care," but it is my story.
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You cannot argue very much.
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You say, "Okay, it's your story.
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I'm happy for you," but when you try to preach, then you start to have argument and counterargument and, and, then at the end of the day you're not friend anymore.
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But when you share your story, When you witness, you open your heart.
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So it's dangerous, but it's an act of love.
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And when you have an act of love, of sharing and opening your heart, the people in front of you cannot respond otherwise with, "Oh wow, wow."
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And they start to open their heart, too.
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So witness is a very key element.
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And unity unity is a bit of a tricky one.
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Unity, it's a long, rocky walk with thorn on both side.
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I'm encouraged.
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Yeah and I've, I have never thought I will be in unity, but I had quite some experience where I started to listen, read Orthodox, Catholic, Reform, Presbyterians, whatever theology, and I thought, "There are good stuff."
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I cannot grab everything.
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I cannot accept everything.
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I'm very evangelical in my theology, but aspects are beautiful, and I need to learn about it.
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So I think unity is something that we need to think not in a way that will separate us, but in a way of, how could I have a little bridge? We don't need to have the Golden Gate Bridge, but a little bridge to the other one and say, how do you see that? Would you tell me?" And have an open heart.
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Again, and when you have an open heart, meaning you love the person, you respect the person not everything they believe because sometimes you cannot a- agree, but just to say, "I, I value who you are, and I value your walk of faith," for sure.
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So unity, it's tough, but I think it is what Jesus prayed, and maybe we should be one of the answers of Jesus' prayer let's dive a little bit deeper into this, this idea of unity because what you're trying to do is you're trying to bring people from different theological expressions together to work together and to celebrate together Christ.
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And I just think of some of the experiences that I've had even within local church contexts where people have had bad experiences with other denominations, and they carry that with them, and they could never imagine, being able to work together because they see it so opposed to themselves.
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So as you are, are thinking about this engaging with people from many different denominations how do you navigate that personally? You mentioned seeing the beauty in, in others, but when you're coming together, how do you pursue unity while still taking theology and scripture and truth seriously and Jesus' words to engage with each other? Tell us your process.
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It, It's a very difficult ground.
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I don't know And definitely Jesus ask us, first of all, to love him and to love the other.
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And when you love the other doesn't mean you agree with everything, and doesn't mean you are the same.
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We just celebrate with my wife two days ago, our 35th anniversary, and I can tell you she's different.
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She different in every aspect.
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But the walk together makes me a better person, and I hope she is better today because we are together.
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And I think, yes I have countless story about unity that it brought me an understanding of God's love that was much bigger than what I had in my understanding alone.
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But let me say that should we focus on our differences or should we focus on our commonality? Very often evangelical we are very scriptural, and say, "Ah, yeah, but this scripture, and this thing is really wrong and I cannot with them because of that."
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But the truth is, the biggest common denominator that we have is Jesus.
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The risen Jesus.
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So for that, I would say, look JC 2033 2033 as as a big anniversary, look the anniversary maybe of your grandpa Jason or grandma and your grandpa is willing to have all the family together.
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That's the idea.
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And when you as a son or grandson come to the birthday party, are you saying, "I'm coming only if this one is there, but if that one comes because of their faith, I'm not coming"? So it could happen.
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In many family it happens.
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But I would suggest that you just go there in peace, And you know what? It's just a little moment.
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It's not having a house together and share the bathroom.
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It's not that.
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It's just having an anniversary together.
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And the truth is, Would love for his anniversary peace in the house, peace in the family.
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It doesn't mean that I have the same theology as, as you, and the same political position, the same financial habits or even sexuality.
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We are not there to talk about that.
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We are there to say, we love Jesus, he changed our lives, he rose from the dead for our sins, and we are free to go in life and in eternity because of grace.
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And I think if we are in that position, we can work with quite a lot of people who confess Christ as their savior So share, share with us some stories.
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You have 20 years of stories but I would love to hear, uh, I would love to hear some testimony, some stories of some of the global connections, the leaders that you've been able to connect with, and then maybe even some stories of local expression.
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How are churches and leaders and your national teams beginning to imagine how this will play out in their context? unity is risky.
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And the risk you take is to meet your other person and to see how they will reject you or if you're gonna reject them.
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And I was in a very specific meeting with Have you heard of Alpha, the Alpha course? I worked for Alpha for 13 years and actually my first book that has been translated into more than 20 languages has the foreword from Nicky Gumbel.
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So I became very good friend of Nicky.
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And that was the, I think the year 2000, something like that.
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And then on the stage of the international conference came a guy Father just to start with Father, we should not call anybody Father.
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And I was just, like, stressed on my chair.
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And Father Cantalamessa, preacher to the Pope, and I was just like, "Man, I was tricked."
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I, thought I came here in a safe Anglican church.
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Anglican was just also a bit of a stretch for me.
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And then this Catholic was coming on the stage, and I thought, "Okay, that's it.
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That's the end of my involvement with Alpha.
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It goes too far.
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It's impossible."
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So I took my notebook, and I said, "Everything that I disagree with the guy, I will take a note, and I'll go to Nicky Gumbel, and I will give him my letter of resignation because of what the guy will say, and the position Alpha will take with the Catholic Church."
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So I listened to the guy, and he was gentle, a little old man, very gentle, doing his little jokes.
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And then everything he said was good stuff.
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And I took some notes, but it was notes that I was unhappy with.
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It was notes that I thought I should take that for my next sermon or my next preaching, and at the end of the day I thought, "Lord, this is incredible.
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I never thought any Catholic would have such a beautiful heart and such a beautiful theology."
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So I'm not saying that to say everything is okay, but again, should we What kind of truth should we pursue as a, Christian? Should we pursue orthodox truth, the most pure not as orthodox the church, but the orthodox truth, the most pure truth? Or should we have the Catholic truth, the most universal for everybody, every every ethnic group? Or, Or should we have the more evangelical truth, which is the most biblical? But I think the truth, it's not a theology.
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The truth is a person.
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It's Jesus And we're gonna spend eternity with him, despite our little truth that today we are fighting for.
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So I'm not saying every theology is wrong.
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No, I'm not saying that.
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But it's maybe one side of the coin, or one side of the diamond of the love of God.
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And I think we do have, as Evangelical and, and Charismatic, and Pentecostal, we have a part of the truth that is beautiful and we are running for it.
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And some of other churches have another understanding, and sometimes much older understanding, much mature understanding.
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and that's okay.
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If the Evangelical Church will have 2,000 years, maybe we will have also some down spots or blind spots, for sure.
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But I think let's discover in the other one what is the beauty of their faith.
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And again, that is love.
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when I received the vision, the first thing I thought was, "I need to meet the key actor of the world."
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And who are there? The World Evangelical Alliance General Secretary the Lausanne Movement.
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I, I put that in.
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And, And the Pope.
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I should tell the Pope that they should not miss the opportunity.
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And you know what? Out of 50 on my list, I met them almost all today.
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And the only thing I'm saying is, should we do it together? Should we do this anniversary together? I'm not asking to have the same theology, the same ecclesiology, the same missiology.
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No, I'm talking about could we be together to answer the prayer of Jesus for us to be united for the world to know So how is this playing out on the ground right now? I'm thinking about those who might be listening in and saying, "Hey, we wanna get involved."
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As you were speaking, I was just thinking about one of the parables I read this week in my Bible reading time of Jesus saying, "The kingdom of God is like a father who was throwing a wedding celebration for his son," and he's sending out the invitations, and people rejected it.
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And I think of this as a moment of God saying, "Hey, come and celebrate.
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Let's be together."
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And for those who grabbed hold of the invitation and say, "Hey, we don't wanna miss the party," how do they get involved? What are you inviting them into? How can they get connected? Let's talk about getting more practical.
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one preliminary thing is I thought I had the vision and everybody had to follow me.
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But the truth is the World Evangelical Alliance have this vision to...
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The gospel for everyone by 2033.
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The World Pentecostal Fellowship, the WCC, the Global Christian Forum, cetera, et cetera.
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So it is not one man vision.
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Of course not.
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The Lord is not working like that.
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We are all that I mention, and I can mention 429 groups in the evangelical Pentecostal world that say we are running for 2033.
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There is more than 200 groups in the Catholic Church, so there is a movement of God.
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Now, how to do that locally? I really think if we do a big party in Rome or in Geneva or that, that will not bring the world attention.
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We should do it in every country, in every city, and why not in every street? So i-i-if we say that what can we imagine for a city or for a street or for a nation? Some would say, "Yeah, we need to do big thing."
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Other will say, "You know what? I'm just gonna bring my table.
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I put it in front of my house, and I offer food for the neighbors."
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Street parties.
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And you know what? If we do that, family can be involved.
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It's not only preacher will go to a stadium.
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Everybody gonna fight to have the mic and to preach the best preaching and nobody of the world will listen to it.
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But if you are, as a family, as a street Christian in one street or in one city to say, "Let's do it together.
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Let's r- try to be accessible to the world."
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And I think that is how we can do it.
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So my recommendation is do you know who is Christian in your street or in your city and try to come together.
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Try to make a list of the Christian, but also the Christian leaders, the pastors, the mission leaders and grab a coffee and say, "Hey, have you heard about 2033? We should not miss this opportunity.
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Could, we do it together? What is your idea?" And then start from that, and start today to say, "Yeah let's do it."
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So us, JC 2033, we have 300 ambassador in 70 nations and great, they try to spread the idea.
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But you know what? We need to be together with those 429 organization in the Evangelical and Pentecostal side and say, with finishing the task, with Alpha and other could we do it together? What is what you bring? What is the fishes and the bread that you bring on the table? And let's do it together."
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We have a little dream to have the longest table in the world.
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And in my village, I can have three, three table, and then in the following neighborhood, five table, and maybe in the city 50 table, and then we will add all those table and say, the church have invited the world for supper or for dinner."
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And we have a table of 235 kilometers.
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That would be cool, isn't it? Yeah.
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What I love about this whole vision is, is to say, it is gonna take a different expression in every single village, and every single city, and every single country.
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the table that people are invited to is gonna be a different kind of table.
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And that cannot be dictated by some It's not, it can't be a hierarchy.
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It has to be decentralized.
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It has to be has God put this vision in your heart? And if so, who has he connected you with? What tools has he put in your hand? And say, "Will you run with this?" Very much like God did with you, Olivier.
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What next step, what is the first step that you would I think for to take? 'Cause I think often in these journeys, the first step is the hardest.
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I think dream big.
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Start with a dream.
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And maybe for you, dreaming big is putting a table in front of your house or bringing some leaflet and say, have a cake at home," you know? So dream big.
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Maybe it will be a stadium.
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Maybe it will be Copacabana Beach with three million people.
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Dream big.
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And then start small.
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Start today.
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And then work hard, because you know what? There is only six years, nine month, and nine day today before 2033, April 17.
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So work hard.
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There is nothing beautiful without hard work.
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And you know what? Do not stop on the way.
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It gonna be hard.
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You will have people saying, "Who are you? But just don't stop.
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So practically, you can also come to my website, have a look or other website with like Finishing the Task, Alpha, and other to say, what is the best for me? Another thing is as I share, this first book is talking about how I received the vision, but also how I think the Lord opened the doors around the world.
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And I just released few months ago, sorry, this book, Then The World Will Believe, which is the sequel of the first one, to share beautiful story.
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a teenager could enjoy these two books because it's very simple.
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It's not theological, but it's stories after stories of what the Lord has done to prepare this 2,000 anniversary globally Wow.
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I'm gonna be sure to put that in the show notes which websites would you like us to link to if some Those are interested, say, wanna go onto your website, what website would that be, Olivier? It's JC for Jesus Christ 2033.world,
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W-O-R-L-D I'm gonna make sure I put that in the show notes.
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Olivier, this has been a great conversation.
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It's, It's been wonderful to hear the vision.
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It's been wonderful to hear uh, what God is doing and what we hope and pray and trust that God will do in 2033.
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As we begin to wrap up this podcast, do you have any last words or thought or encouragement that you'd like to leave with us? I have a question for you, Jason, if it's an anniversary, what will be your 2,000 anniversary gift? What will be your gift? And I give you a hint or three big clues.
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He spoke about the gift he would like to receive from us in John 17, in Matthew 28, and in Revelation 9.
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This is what he would love us to bring as a gift John 17 is about unity, witness, and the glory celebration.
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Matthew 28 is, go? That is really Jesus.
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Go.
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And then Revelation 7 is the vision of John seeing the heavenlies and seeing people from every tribe, every nation coming to the king, and this is what the Lord is willing.
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So there is no place on earth where we should not celebrate 2,000 years of the resurrection.
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There is no place on earth where we should not preach the gospel.
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The gospel, which is an invitation of love.
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The gospel, which is opening your heart to the heart of Christ.
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The church is meant to be missional.
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The church is meant to be open door for the world to see how heaven will look like.
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And you know what? Maybe you said, "Oh, I don't care about this 2,000 anniversary, and I'm not gonna do anything."
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That's fine.
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But I really pray that you will think about your own eternity, and that you will not regret that you say, "Oh, I, I have done only that part."
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Think bigger, and think how we can reach around you, around your family, and you will be happy in eternity that you've been involved in one of the biggest movement to celebrate the risen one.
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Oh, Olivier, I don't know a better way to end the podcast than that encouragement.
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But perhaps I do.
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I would love to invite you to pray for those who have listened up until this point.
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Would you pray over our podcast audience and entrust, Entrust this all to the Lord? Yes.
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Thank you Lord, with our little lives, little ministries little actions, we want to bring you glory.
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We want to be a blessing to you, but also a blessing to the world.
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So Lord, I pray for all of us, for Jason, his family, but also for everyone who is listening to this humble podcast.
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And I said, Lord, help us all to bring our puzzle, to bring our fish and bread, to bring our talent, our time, and our treasure to you and say, "Lord whatever you want I'm your servant, and I wanna advance this beautiful gospel.
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I wanna advance this wonderful good news to the world."
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And help us to think out of the box, think out of the church to be light in the world, to be light in the streets, to be light in the city, and for people to say, "What do they have that I don't have?" Lord, help us to be motivated, to be Christian who reach out with our testimony in the name of Jesus.
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And I pray that this 2,000 anniversary will be so beautiful, so big, that you will have tears on your face, and you will say, "Faithful servants, thank you for this beautiful moment that we had together."
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Amen.
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Amen.
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Olivia, thank you so much for joining us.
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It's been a joy Thank you, Jason, for the opportunity, and I really hope we will do something beautiful for him Well, I hope that you enjoyed this episode of the Lausanne Movement Podcast.
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If you did enjoy the show, I want to encourage you to leave us a rating and review and share it with a friend.
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Till next week.
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Cheers.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,520.001
I was just in a void of spirituality.
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And then a friend of mine, became Christian, and he said, "Oh, I met Jesus."
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And I thought, "Oh no, poor guy, I need to help him."
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They spoke about Jesus.
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They spoke about the love of God.
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What just happened to you, I want you to share it to the world."
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the biggest common denominator that we have is Jesus.
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Let's do something for the 2,000 anniversary of the resurrection that is beautiful, colorful, youthful.
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The risen Jesus.
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Dream big.
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And then start small.
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Start today.
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Well, Olivier, welcome to the podcast.
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It's great to have you with us Hello, Jason.
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Hello, everyone.
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It's a joy to be with you So, Olivier, you joined us at the fourth congress, and you know that there's something that is really important to us as a Lausanne Movement, is that of collaboration, that of unifying together to proclaim the gospel and take it to the ends of the earth, to complete the great commission together.
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And what I'm really looking forward to in this conversation and why I'm so glad to have you on the podcast, is that you have dedicated so much of your time and your energy to this idea of unifying together as a global church.
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And so you've got this initiative, JC 2033, that, I'm looking forward to unpack with you.
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But before we dive too deeply too quickly, I would love to hear your story.
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So for those of us who are meeting you for the first time, could you share a bit of your journey with us and how Jesus has inspired you for mission and for the kingdom? Yeah, I was born, raised, and saved in Geneva, Switzerland.
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Beautiful city and with an incredible history.
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But believe it or not, as I grew up in a Catholic family, we never, ever spoke about Jesus, and in the class or in the schools or in the street, nobody spoke to me about Jesus, ever.
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So I really grew up as a full atheist.
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I didn't know what to believe.
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I was just in a void of spirituality.
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And then a friend of mine, became Christian, and he said, "Oh, I met Jesus."
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And I thought, "Oh, no, poor guy, I need to help him."
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And then he said, "Oh, I'm gonna do a YWAM school, a DTS, disciple training school."
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And I said, "Oh no, you're gonna become a monk."
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I'd really tried to help him going out of this, problem, the Jesus problem.
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And then he did, an outreach in the city of Geneva by the lake.
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Beautiful place.
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They spoke about Jesus.
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They spoke about the love of God.
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And they asked the question, "Who would like to become Christian? Who need Jesus in their heart?" And for me, it was such a strange concept to have Jesus in your heart, but after three call I raised my hand just to try Jesus, because I have tried a lot of stuff.
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I, I was 16, almost 16 at that time, and I had already tried several stuff.
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and I raised my hand, and they prayed for me.
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So I had absolutely zero, zero understanding of the Bible, of, of God of His love.
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And then I receive physically His love over my body.
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I could feel the warmth and like a beautiful water that came on my body, and I heard something with my ears.
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And I was not influenced by anything because I was blank.
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And I heard something saying, What just happened to you, I want you to share it to the world."
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And I was just like, "Oh who said that?" And the guy who were praying for me they said, "What are you talking about?" And I said, heard a voice.
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Who spoke that?" And they said, "Oh, it must be God."
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And for me, I did my catechism in five second.
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God exists.
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He listen to our prayer.
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He answer our prayer.
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He love us.
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And I was just like, "Oh, wow, I'm in."
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And I have m- already my calling to share the gospel to the world.
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That is how it started.
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And I, I, I could not help it.
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I had to speak out about my faith to my friends, to the n- nearby Catholic church, Reformed church, and then I went to an evangelical and then Pentecostal church at the same time.
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I was full on from day one.
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Wow.
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It's they're still going to be Wow.
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You know, it, it's so beautiful to, to hear the origin stories of leaders, and how every story seems to be different, although it leads to the same person, which is Jesus Christ.
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I love that God gave you the calling straight away.
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And from the beginning it sounds that you have been able to connect and have been called to connect with leaders from many different denominations and areas and regions.
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By God's talk about, By God's grace.
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absolutely.
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For someone just hearing about JC 2033, how would you describe what JC 2033 is? So first of all, the name JC, it's not Jean Claude, it's Jesus Christ 2033.
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Yeah we wanna focus on Jesus, on what Jesus did.
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A- did.
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A- and, and I think the idea or the revelation of the intuition I received was really the resurrection.
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So we want to celebrate 2,000 years of the resurrection of Jesus.
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Of course, you cannot speak about the resurrection without the cross.
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You cannot speak about the resurrection without the incarnation.
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So we think at the whole gospel but the focus point is, wow, he is alive, and I think that brings something new.
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So we want to celebrate 2,000 years of the resurrection, but it's not an event.
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Because if it's an event I'm not in.
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I'm not interested.
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It's a movement, a movement that started almost 20 years ago on my side.
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and I tried to bridge people to say, "Guys, there is an incredible anniversary coming up.
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What should we do together? Could we do it together?" Because when I received this idea, and I'll speak to, to that a bit later, I really thought unity was something very important.
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So I thought, "Who are the guys we need to bring together for the world Christianity reaching out to the world?" And that was a crazy faith journey that started in 2007.
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And I'm still on.
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So it's a movement where we have Jesus, the risen one, at the center.
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Panel, maybe if I can help you to imagine how could that you know that he talk, For the day the resurrection day, in 2033, Be in that is the 17th of April.
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I hope we will have street parties.
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We will have multicultural concert.
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We will have march for Jesus, Easter parade, concert, wha- whatever, to make sure the church is delivering the message to the world.
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So it's not at all to say, "Oh, let's do in our church a little party," and say, "We know the truth," and they don't know.
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It's really how the church, who knows the truth, who knows the risen one, go and turn out of our church to the world and say, "Have you heard the story?" And this is really the story of the disciple when they receive this message, "He is risen."
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They say, They could not hold it.
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They could not stay without saying it.
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So they went back to Jerusalem to say to the apostle and say, "He's really risen.
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We walked with him.
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We break bread with him.
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He is really risen."
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you know, I mean, This just speaks to the heart that we have as a movement.
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We wanna see the whole church take the whole gospel to the whole world, and if there was ever a time where that should be part of our focus, it's at that 2,000-year mark of celebrating Christ his death and his resurrection.
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this is, It's such a beautiful vision and, and I love that, you're not just talking about trying to get the church to host an event together, but it's about a process.
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It's about, the whole church taking the whole gospel to the whole world, being out in the world celebrating together like one big family reunion.
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So talk to us about the vision.
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Like how did God capture your heart with this vision so deeply? I was already 10 years in ministry full time from 1997 to 2007, and then some stuff happened, and my wife really thought it was time for us to have a break, to have a moment to refocus on Jesus.
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I appreciate the ministry was going well.
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I was not in burnout at all.
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that I'll be back next week.
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was really surfing on the wave but really the Lord stopped me, and he said, "I have something new for you."
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And that was in 2006 when he started to really stop us.
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So we went January 2007 in Sydney, Australia to do a Bible course think CJ's, a church for a year.
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And really my attitude was, "Look, Lord I'm available.
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I don't know if you can use me with what I have in my hand, which is very little, but use me.
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The ministry was going well, very well.
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Money was there, preaching beautiful churches, staff and all that.
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But then he really stopped the thing supernaturally and I thought this cannot be God.
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Must be the enemy."
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But it was God.
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And then we went to this Bible school.
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And for me, it was really a moment of laying down my life, my ministry, my aspiration.
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I said to the Lord, "You know what? Have me.
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Do whatever you want with me."
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And one morning, I had this burning bush experience.
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I'm not sure if that's the right word.
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It was those kind of moment that you cannot prepare.
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you c- You cannot really pray about it, but it just went.
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And for three hours I was with Jesus.
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I was not in the heavenly.
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No, I was fully there.
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I, I, I could really interact with people but, but My spirit was in a very sensitive mode, and I started to see things.
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And I'm not a crazy Pentecostal.
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I'm a normal evangelical, you know? and I'm Swiss, by the way.
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I'm really down to earth, But I started to see the globe like I was on the moon, and I saw explosion of life coming from the ground to the sky, and it was so powerful.
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I was astonished, and I said, "Oh wow.
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Jesus, what is that?" And then I saw a Wow crowd, a huge crowd of people, and I knew they were from every churches, every age, every ethnical backgrounds.
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And I said, "Lord what are they doing?" And I heard in my chest, in my spirit, I heard, "This is my people, and they are worshiping me for the 2,000 anniversary of the resurrection."
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And I receive in my face like a train, And I had a specific moment.
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I will not say it, it was a near-death experience, because it wasn't.
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But it was something where I started to see my whole life and where God touched me, came to me, and spoke to me with the word of God, and I thought, "He was preparing me even before I was a Christian for such a time as this, for such a task as this."
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And it's so humbling.
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It's so humbling because you cannot be like, "Oh, yeah, okay, I had the Grail."
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No.
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It's like, "Wow, how could you use a very little man like me for one little pieces of the huge puzzle of the global church to impact the world?" And I cried.
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I cried for hours because I was under the love and under the calling of the Lord.
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And you know what? In few months, it will be 20 years.
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I still have the fuel for that.
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I'm still over-enthusiastic, ready to face battle because I'm still flying out of this burning bush moment for me Olivier, I, I, I'm really keen to hear about your journey from, from that moment 20 years ago to where you find yourself now and, and how God has led you in this journey.
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But before we, get into that I wanna ask if you would take a moment just to chat to the younger leaders or emerging leaders that are listening to this, the leaders who are in the position that you were in 20 years ago, wrestling with your calling, wondering What, God is calling you to do.
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What advice do you have for emerging leaders like that? If you think that the Lord is asking you something that is much bigger than what you can do, it's way possible it is the Lord.
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And then waiting for approval for a vision that people have not received for them, but you have received it, it will be unlikely that a lot of people will give you their approval and their thumbs up.
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So the truth is, you need to start.
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You need to start small, and do your credentials, and do your training, and do whatever you need to do.
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Because in the small thing, that is where the Lord will put the spot on you, and other people and leaders will say, "Oh, this guy, he's serious, and maybe his big calling is not a, a joke."
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And you know what? Today reaping 30 years of sowing and you need to sow.
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And sowing is not fun.
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You don't see the fruits, but you go to the field and you sow.
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And in my case, you travel, and you travel, and you meet people.
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And sometimes they are not happy, and sometimes they're thinking, "Who are you? What kind of denomination are you coming from? And what is the big organization behind you?" "I have none."
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"Oh, why are you speaking to me?" So it's a huge journey of humility.
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And you need to start small.
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And you know what? then you have the God factor coming in.
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I'm not sure if that's the right word, but you do faithfully what the Lord ask you to do, and then bang, you have God who puts the wind of the Spirit on you, and then you fly.
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Those days we are in the World Cup.
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You cannot believe that anyone will score a goal if he's not on the field.
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You wanna have success, you need to be on the field.
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You wanna score a goal, you need to be there.
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And you know what? One day, one place, you will be at the right moment, at the right place, and then you're gonna score your spiritual goal.
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But you need to go to the practice every week You need to be faithful for years, and then the opportunity of the Lord will come.
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So be faithful, be humble Even if you have a big vision, be humble, start small, and you will see the Lord is doing it.
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walk us through that.
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I mean, you're speaking about being on the field, being faithful, starting small, being humble.
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Tell us how that played out in your journey, over the past 20 years.
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If you have any stories, I would love to hear them again I'm not one of those crazy super spiritual guy, but when you have such a vision with such an intensity, and you share that with some people you have a bit of adversity, you have a bit of questioning, and you need to be straight in your boots.
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You need to be good with your heart and with your Lord and your relationship with God to say, "No," "despite this person doesn't like what I'm saying, doesn't like what I'm doing, Lord go to my heart.
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Tell me if my heart is wrong."
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How do you say that in English? Uh, you have this, this beautiful text um, to say, "Lord I wanna be straight with you, and this person doesn't like me or doesn't like the vision, doesn't like the idea, the movement, and it's okay," you know? and you know what? Perseverance is something that in this age you scroll, you quit you jump to another thing.
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But the truth is, if you are faithful, and not over hours, over weeks, over month, over decade, we are talking about decades then really the Lord has the time to work on your heart and to work on your relationship.
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And those days I have hundreds, not thousands connection around the world in more than 120 countries and we believe in each other, we trust each other, we love each other and we do ministry together.
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So praise God.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I'm just reminded of the scripture that says, "Don't despise the day of small beginnings."
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And that call to faithfulness, being on the field, playing the game that God has placed in front of you it's so helpful.
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Ol- Olivier, uh, a- as we're speaking about this idea of celebrating the resurrection, Yes Christians celebrate the resurrection every year.
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Why do you believe God gave you that vision for the 2,000th anniversary of the resurrection? And why is that worth paying attention to? I think intuitively I, I, I can suppose the answer.
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But why do you believe it's worth paying attention to? And for the church leaders listening why should they stop and say "Well, we, we do this every year.
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We are gonna celebrate Easter on April, the 17th of April, 2033 anyway.
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Why should we think about doing anything with anyone else if the system works?" Yeah.
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Or what you just say, the system works.
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I think it doesn't work.
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It does not work.
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Because the world need to know and the worst-case scenario for 2033 will be that we do the same, meaning we go to our church, we have a nice service, and we say, "Wow, that was a beautiful celebration for the 2,000 anniversary."
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This is not why we are on earth for.
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No.
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Yes we should celebrate together with brother and sister, of course.
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I, I'm a churchgoer.
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I love the church, and I think the church is one of the best place to raise up disciple and everything.
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But we are not here for us, we are here for them.
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And if this 2,000 anniversary, which is only an opportunity, and the worst is we don't even know if that's the right date.
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But it's an opportunity to celebrate and the word celebration for some is a bit of a tricky one in English because we think, "Oh, let's do a celebration," and we think it's a church celebration.
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And I would say, no, look at the Olympic Games.
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the first day they do a big party with art and music and color and us coming out of reformation, we have tried to put everything that is art, that is beautiful, that is colorful and we want to be serious, you know? I went to an Orthodox monk one day, and I said, "Why all your icons with Jesus, he's never smiling?" And he look at me and he could not really answer, and he said, "Because faith is serious."
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And I thought, "Yes, it is serious, but it's also fun.
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It is also beautiful.
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It's, also moment of joy," you know? and I think us coming out of Reformation and coming out of the Evangelical world, sometimes we're way too serious.
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Let's do something for the 2,000 anniversary of the resurrection that is beautiful, colorful, youthful.
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Let's have the children shouting, and let's have elderly people with family, and let's have the church having a beautiful smell and a beautiful attraction where people say, "What is their message? What is what they have I don't have? Why are they so joyful? Why do they have hope?" And hope is something that the world cannot grasp.
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We have hope because of the resurrection, hope of a new life today but also hope for eternity and the world doesn't have that.
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And so let's not do what we have done.
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Let's do it differently for the world.
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and, and it's on- only an opportunity.
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You can do that every Easter.
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But by the way, should we really celebrate the resurrection once a year, or should we celebrate every morning? I live by a forest, and every morning, the birds are singing.
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I have to put earplugs because they are so loud.
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Why are they singing? And I think maybe the answer is because they give the glory to Jesus.
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Maybe not, but I think, why are we on Earth? Worship is one of the thing, and worship, art, music, beauty is way more attractive than sometimes our preaching Yeah.
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I think of Jesus' entrance into Jerusalem on the Yeah think of Jesus' entrance into Jerusalem on the week of his death.
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And, the Pharisees saying, "Hey, can you stop these people from praising you?" And he says, "If they don't praise me, the rocks will cry out."
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And I sense the same kind of enthusiasm coming from you about how we need to be celebrating.
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Why are the birds singing? 'Cause they're bringing glory to God, and we need to be doing the same Jason, imagine we are celebrating an anniversary which is 2,000 years and grasp that, and we have 8 billion invitees.
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The world is invited celebrate, to realize that Christ is dead and he rose again.
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Is that not a good party that we should do something? Absolutely.
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I've seen that you have three words that seem to really stick out.
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the One is celebration, which you've spoken about quite a bit, but the other is unity and witness, which you have alluded to, but I would love for you to take a little bit more time just to speak into why these three words, unity, witness, and celebration, are so central to what JC 2033 is trying to achieve so we were really working with professional to try to think what is our unique selling point? What is what we bring to the church, and we thought, yeah, unity yes, witness to the world, and yes, celebration of course.
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And then as we were walking, I was reading John 17, and it hit me so strongly.
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Jesus is praying the Father for us to be together, for us to be united, first of all, unity.
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And then unity is not for the sake of unity, is for the sake of the world.
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Then the world will know, and then the world will believe.
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So unity is a key element for the witness to the world.
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And then he continue and he said, "And that will bring the glory."
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The glory to us? How come? I still need to understand that, but also, give the glory to him What we will do in our lifetime, with or without JC 2033, should have those component: unity, witness, and glory, celebration.
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And that is how it started really in our hearts to say, "Yeah, it is a fully John 17 thing."
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But then, yes we can speak about a bit more what is witness, what is, so witness, let me just say that for many years I thought we need to be in mission," and I was the head of Youth with a Mission, Switzerland, for 10 years.
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And yes, I was fully into mission, for sure, and I was fully into evangelize the world, but when we talk about evangelizing, we talk about a discourse a, a preaching to convince the other.
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And I think we are missing, something that Jesus is asking us to do, to be witness, and I think it's very different.
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Witness is coming from me, my story, and I'll tell you my story.
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So you can be rude and say, "I don't care," but it is my story.
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You cannot argue very much.
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You say, "Okay, it's your story.
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I'm happy for you," but when you try to preach, then you start to have argument and counterargument and, and, then at the end of the day you're not friend anymore.
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But when you share your story, When you witness, you open your heart.
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So it's dangerous, but it's an act of love.
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And when you have an act of love, of sharing and opening your heart, the people in front of you cannot respond otherwise with, "Oh wow, wow."
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And they start to open their heart, too.
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So witness is a very key element.
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And unity unity is a bit of a tricky one.
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Unity, it's a long, rocky walk with thorn on both side.
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I'm encouraged.
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Yeah and I've, I have never thought I will be in unity, but I had quite some experience where I started to listen, read Orthodox, Catholic, Reform, Presbyterians, whatever theology, and I thought, "There are good stuff."
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I cannot grab everything.
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I cannot accept everything.
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I'm very evangelical in my theology, but aspects are beautiful, and I need to learn about it.
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So I think unity is something that we need to think not in a way that will separate us, but in a way of, how could I have a little bridge? We don't need to have the Golden Gate Bridge, but a little bridge to the other one and say, how do you see that? Would you tell me?" And have an open heart.
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Again, and when you have an open heart, meaning you love the person, you respect the person not everything they believe because sometimes you cannot a- agree, but just to say, "I, I value who you are, and I value your walk of faith," for sure.
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So unity, it's tough, but I think it is what Jesus prayed, and maybe we should be one of the answers of Jesus' prayer let's dive a little bit deeper into this, this idea of unity because what you're trying to do is you're trying to bring people from different theological expressions together to work together and to celebrate together Christ.
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And I just think of some of the experiences that I've had even within local church contexts where people have had bad experiences with other denominations, and they carry that with them, and they could never imagine, being able to work together because they see it so opposed to themselves.
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So as you are, are thinking about this engaging with people from many different denominations how do you navigate that personally? You mentioned seeing the beauty in, in others, but when you're coming together, how do you pursue unity while still taking theology and scripture and truth seriously and Jesus' words to engage with each other? Tell us your process.
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It, It's a very difficult ground.
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I don't know And definitely Jesus ask us, first of all, to love him and to love the other.
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And when you love the other doesn't mean you agree with everything, and doesn't mean you are the same.
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We just celebrate with my wife two days ago, our 35th anniversary, and I can tell you she's different.
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She different in every aspect.
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But the walk together makes me a better person, and I hope she is better today because we are together.
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And I think, yes I have countless story about unity that it brought me an understanding of God's love that was much bigger than what I had in my understanding alone.
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But let me say that should we focus on our differences or should we focus on our commonality? Very often evangelical we are very scriptural, and say, "Ah, yeah, but this scripture, and this thing is really wrong and I cannot with them because of that."
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But the truth is, the biggest common denominator that we have is Jesus.
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The risen Jesus.
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So for that, I would say, look JC 2033 2033 as as a big anniversary, look the anniversary maybe of your grandpa Jason or grandma and your grandpa is willing to have all the family together.
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That's the idea.
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And when you as a son or grandson come to the birthday party, are you saying, "I'm coming only if this one is there, but if that one comes because of their faith, I'm not coming"? So it could happen.
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In many family it happens.
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But I would suggest that you just go there in peace, And you know what? It's just a little moment.
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It's not having a house together and share the bathroom.
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It's not that.
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It's just having an anniversary together.
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And the truth is, Would love for his anniversary peace in the house, peace in the family.
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It doesn't mean that I have the same theology as, as you, and the same political position, the same financial habits or even sexuality.
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We are not there to talk about that.
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We are there to say, we love Jesus, he changed our lives, he rose from the dead for our sins, and we are free to go in life and in eternity because of grace.
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And I think if we are in that position, we can work with quite a lot of people who confess Christ as their savior So share, share with us some stories.
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You have 20 years of stories but I would love to hear, uh, I would love to hear some testimony, some stories of some of the global connections, the leaders that you've been able to connect with, and then maybe even some stories of local expression.
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How are churches and leaders and your national teams beginning to imagine how this will play out in their context? unity is risky.
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And the risk you take is to meet your other person and to see how they will reject you or if you're gonna reject them.
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And I was in a very specific meeting with Have you heard of Alpha, the Alpha course? I worked for Alpha for 13 years and actually my first book that has been translated into more than 20 languages has the foreword from Nicky Gumbel.
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So I became very good friend of Nicky.
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And that was the, I think the year 2000, something like that.
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And then on the stage of the international conference came a guy Father just to start with Father, we should not call anybody Father.
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And I was just, like, stressed on my chair.
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And Father Cantalamessa, preacher to the Pope, and I was just like, "Man, I was tricked."
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I, thought I came here in a safe Anglican church.
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Anglican was just also a bit of a stretch for me.
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And then this Catholic was coming on the stage, and I thought, "Okay, that's it.
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That's the end of my involvement with Alpha.
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It goes too far.
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It's impossible."
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So I took my notebook, and I said, "Everything that I disagree with the guy, I will take a note, and I'll go to Nicky Gumbel, and I will give him my letter of resignation because of what the guy will say, and the position Alpha will take with the Catholic Church."
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So I listened to the guy, and he was gentle, a little old man, very gentle, doing his little jokes.
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And then everything he said was good stuff.
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And I took some notes, but it was notes that I was unhappy with.
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It was notes that I thought I should take that for my next sermon or my next preaching, and at the end of the day I thought, "Lord, this is incredible.
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I never thought any Catholic would have such a beautiful heart and such a beautiful theology."
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So I'm not saying that to say everything is okay, but again, should we What kind of truth should we pursue as a, Christian? Should we pursue orthodox truth, the most pure not as orthodox the church, but the orthodox truth, the most pure truth? Or should we have the Catholic truth, the most universal for everybody, every every ethnic group? Or, Or should we have the more evangelical truth, which is the most biblical? But I think the truth, it's not a theology.
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The truth is a person.
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It's Jesus And we're gonna spend eternity with him, despite our little truth that today we are fighting for.
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So I'm not saying every theology is wrong.
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No, I'm not saying that.
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But it's maybe one side of the coin, or one side of the diamond of the love of God.
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And I think we do have, as Evangelical and, and Charismatic, and Pentecostal, we have a part of the truth that is beautiful and we are running for it.
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And some of other churches have another understanding, and sometimes much older understanding, much mature understanding.
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and that's okay.
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If the Evangelical Church will have 2,000 years, maybe we will have also some down spots or blind spots, for sure.
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But I think let's discover in the other one what is the beauty of their faith.
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And again, that is love.
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when I received the vision, the first thing I thought was, "I need to meet the key actor of the world."
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And who are there? The World Evangelical Alliance General Secretary the Lausanne Movement.
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I, I put that in.
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And, And the Pope.
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I should tell the Pope that they should not miss the opportunity.
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And you know what? Out of 50 on my list, I met them almost all today.
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And the only thing I'm saying is, should we do it together? Should we do this anniversary together? I'm not asking to have the same theology, the same ecclesiology, the same missiology.
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No, I'm talking about could we be together to answer the prayer of Jesus for us to be united for the world to know So how is this playing out on the ground right now? I'm thinking about those who might be listening in and saying, "Hey, we wanna get involved."
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As you were speaking, I was just thinking about one of the parables I read this week in my Bible reading time of Jesus saying, "The kingdom of God is like a father who was throwing a wedding celebration for his son," and he's sending out the invitations, and people rejected it.
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And I think of this as a moment of God saying, "Hey, come and celebrate.
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Let's be together."
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And for those who grabbed hold of the invitation and say, "Hey, we don't wanna miss the party," how do they get involved? What are you inviting them into? How can they get connected? Let's talk about getting more practical.
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one preliminary thing is I thought I had the vision and everybody had to follow me.
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But the truth is the World Evangelical Alliance have this vision to...
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The gospel for everyone by 2033.
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The World Pentecostal Fellowship, the WCC, the Global Christian Forum, cetera, et cetera.
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So it is not one man vision.
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Of course not.
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The Lord is not working like that.
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We are all that I mention, and I can mention 429 groups in the evangelical Pentecostal world that say we are running for 2033.
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There is more than 200 groups in the Catholic Church, so there is a movement of God.
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Now, how to do that locally? I really think if we do a big party in Rome or in Geneva or that, that will not bring the world attention.
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We should do it in every country, in every city, and why not in every street? So i-i-if we say that what can we imagine for a city or for a street or for a nation? Some would say, "Yeah, we need to do big thing."
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Other will say, "You know what? I'm just gonna bring my table.
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I put it in front of my house, and I offer food for the neighbors."
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Street parties.
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And you know what? If we do that, family can be involved.
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It's not only preacher will go to a stadium.
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Everybody gonna fight to have the mic and to preach the best preaching and nobody of the world will listen to it.
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But if you are, as a family, as a street Christian in one street or in one city to say, "Let's do it together.
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Let's r- try to be accessible to the world."
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And I think that is how we can do it.
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So my recommendation is do you know who is Christian in your street or in your city and try to come together.
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Try to make a list of the Christian, but also the Christian leaders, the pastors, the mission leaders and grab a coffee and say, "Hey, have you heard about 2033? We should not miss this opportunity.
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Could, we do it together? What is your idea?" And then start from that, and start today to say, "Yeah let's do it."
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So us, JC 2033, we have 300 ambassador in 70 nations and great, they try to spread the idea.
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But you know what? We need to be together with those 429 organization in the Evangelical and Pentecostal side and say, with finishing the task, with Alpha and other could we do it together? What is what you bring? What is the fishes and the bread that you bring on the table? And let's do it together."
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We have a little dream to have the longest table in the world.
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And in my village, I can have three, three table, and then in the following neighborhood, five table, and maybe in the city 50 table, and then we will add all those table and say, the church have invited the world for supper or for dinner."
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And we have a table of 235 kilometers.
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That would be cool, isn't it? Yeah.
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What I love about this whole vision is, is to say, it is gonna take a different expression in every single village, and every single city, and every single country.
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the table that people are invited to is gonna be a different kind of table.
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And that cannot be dictated by some It's not, it can't be a hierarchy.
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It has to be decentralized.
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It has to be has God put this vision in your heart? And if so, who has he connected you with? What tools has he put in your hand? And say, "Will you run with this?" Very much like God did with you, Olivier.
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What next step, what is the first step that you would I think for to take? 'Cause I think often in these journeys, the first step is the hardest.
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I think dream big.
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Start with a dream.
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And maybe for you, dreaming big is putting a table in front of your house or bringing some leaflet and say, have a cake at home," you know? So dream big.
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Maybe it will be a stadium.
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Maybe it will be Copacabana Beach with three million people.
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Dream big.
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And then start small.
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Start today.
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And then work hard, because you know what? There is only six years, nine month, and nine day today before 2033, April 17.
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So work hard.
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There is nothing beautiful without hard work.
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And you know what? Do not stop on the way.
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It gonna be hard.
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You will have people saying, "Who are you? But just don't stop.
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So practically, you can also come to my website, have a look or other website with like Finishing the Task, Alpha, and other to say, what is the best for me? Another thing is as I share, this first book is talking about how I received the vision, but also how I think the Lord opened the doors around the world.
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And I just released few months ago, sorry, this book, Then The World Will Believe, which is the sequel of the first one, to share beautiful story.
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a teenager could enjoy these two books because it's very simple.
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It's not theological, but it's stories after stories of what the Lord has done to prepare this 2,000 anniversary globally Wow.
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I'm gonna be sure to put that in the show notes which websites would you like us to link to if some Those are interested, say, wanna go onto your website, what website would that be, Olivier? It's JC for Jesus Christ 2033.world,
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W-O-R-L-D I'm gonna make sure I put that in the show notes.
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Olivier, this has been a great conversation.
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It's, It's been wonderful to hear the vision.
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It's been wonderful to hear uh, what God is doing and what we hope and pray and trust that God will do in 2033.
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As we begin to wrap up this podcast, do you have any last words or thought or encouragement that you'd like to leave with us? I have a question for you, Jason, if it's an anniversary, what will be your 2,000 anniversary gift? What will be your gift? And I give you a hint or three big clues.
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He spoke about the gift he would like to receive from us in John 17, in Matthew 28, and in Revelation 9.
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This is what he would love us to bring as a gift John 17 is about unity, witness, and the glory celebration.
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Matthew 28 is, go? That is really Jesus.
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Go.
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And then Revelation 7 is the vision of John seeing the heavenlies and seeing people from every tribe, every nation coming to the king, and this is what the Lord is willing.
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So there is no place on earth where we should not celebrate 2,000 years of the resurrection.
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There is no place on earth where we should not preach the gospel.
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The gospel, which is an invitation of love.
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The gospel, which is opening your heart to the heart of Christ.
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The church is meant to be missional.
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The church is meant to be open door for the world to see how heaven will look like.
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And you know what? Maybe you said, "Oh, I don't care about this 2,000 anniversary, and I'm not gonna do anything."
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That's fine.
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But I really pray that you will think about your own eternity, and that you will not regret that you say, "Oh, I, I have done only that part."
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Think bigger, and think how we can reach around you, around your family, and you will be happy in eternity that you've been involved in one of the biggest movement to celebrate the risen one.
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Oh, Olivier, I don't know a better way to end the podcast than that encouragement.
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But perhaps I do.
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I would love to invite you to pray for those who have listened up until this point.
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Would you pray over our podcast audience and entrust, Entrust this all to the Lord? Yes.
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Thank you Lord, with our little lives, little ministries little actions, we want to bring you glory.
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We want to be a blessing to you, but also a blessing to the world.
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So Lord, I pray for all of us, for Jason, his family, but also for everyone who is listening to this humble podcast.
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And I said, Lord, help us all to bring our puzzle, to bring our fish and bread, to bring our talent, our time, and our treasure to you and say, "Lord whatever you want I'm your servant, and I wanna advance this beautiful gospel.
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I wanna advance this wonderful good news to the world."
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And help us to think out of the box, think out of the church to be light in the world, to be light in the streets, to be light in the city, and for people to say, "What do they have that I don't have?" Lord, help us to be motivated, to be Christian who reach out with our testimony in the name of Jesus.
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And I pray that this 2,000 anniversary will be so beautiful, so big, that you will have tears on your face, and you will say, "Faithful servants, thank you for this beautiful moment that we had together."
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Amen.
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Amen.
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Olivia, thank you so much for joining us.
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It's been a joy Thank you, Jason, for the opportunity, and I really hope we will do something beautiful for him Well, I hope that you enjoyed this episode of the Lausanne Movement Podcast.
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If you did enjoy the show, I want to encourage you to leave us a rating and review and share it with a friend.
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Till next week.
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Cheers.
