Can Artificial Intelligence Lead Someone to Jesus? Chase Cappo on the Digital Frontier of Evangelism and Discipleship

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Christian Artificial Intelligence is something different.
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It is very capable.
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It can answer why is the sky blue, but it can also tell you who Jesus is.
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you can ask it for a very, very non denom perspective on, on things.
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because when it's integrated with YouTube, for instance.
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And you ask about anxiety, it'll take you to the 20 minute mark of a sermon and give you that 20 minute mark link.
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Secular AI I feel like is trying to serve its purpose.
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Sell you something, get you to use it more.
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Christian AI is Not just trained on a different set of text, but it's trying to get you to God and people.
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there's a lot happening in AI right now.
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We should figure out what it means for the church.
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Well, Chase, welcome to the podcast.
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It's great to have you with us.
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Hey, thank you, Jason.
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I'm excited to be here, and thanks to Lausanne.
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Yeah, I'm really excited to dive into the whole topic of AI and its use in ministry today.
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I feel like it's a topic that I know very little about, and I'm hoping that we can begin to shift the conversation and shift the perspectives of those of us who are joining you in this conversation.
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But to kick us off, could you share your story with us as your listeners? How did you? Become a believer.
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I believe you're the first believer in your family.
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And how did that journey go from you accepting Christ to launching some innovations around AI like BibleChat.ai
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and faith assistant? Boy, howdy.
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Yeah, thanks for asking.
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So, yeah, real briefly, right? So my folks are really young.
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You know, even a miracle story, I was not an abortion.
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And, I remember you know what, getting in trouble a bunch as an elementary school kid for cheating on tests.
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It was kind of like the, uh, if you get caught cheating, you're not trying smart enough.
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and I remember a teacher just saying, you know, if you keep going to, keep cheating, you're going to go to hell.
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I remember kind of taking that pretty seriously.
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and coming home and asking my mom.
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Truth to that.
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And, uh, uh, you know, I think she was, for a portion of her time at that point, like raised Catholic and she just goes, yeah, I actually think that's how it goes.
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You might be, you know, that might be your, that's the card you're dealt.
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And that really like sort of sat me down.
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I wrestling with it for a few weeks.
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I just remember being in my bed and uh, you know, one night crying, asking God to come into my heart, make me a better person.
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Jason, I've had a, a set of really serious spiritual experiences with with Holy Spirit.
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And man, that was one of them.
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I felt like angels were singing around me.
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And so, I think that's when I became a Christian.
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And I've had a number of men grab hold of me and disciple me growing up.
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My folks are, you know, both believers now.
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brother is a prodigal, Lord willing.
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So, we moved a bunch growing up.
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Only place I applied though, for college was the West Point Military Academy, which drove my parents nuts.
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You know, neither of them went to college, but I, you know, I got in.
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I felt like it's where God was telling me to go.
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And I boxed for the Army team while I was there.
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I graduated and, you know, did the Airborne Ranger training and then was a Army officer in the South Pacific for a while.
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Man, I had another near death experience.
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God moved his hand.
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I only, almost died from a heat stroke.
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as I was, you know, just doing a normal five miler.
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And, uh, ended up getting out of the army at that point.
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A little, about a year after.
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and then my wife and I moved to Dallas, Texas where we still live now.
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And I was working at Goldman Sachs for a while on the sales and trading team.
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I felt God calling us out to work on some consulting and startups.
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and shucks, about a year or two after that, one of my best friends from high school called me, who had worked on, uh, crypto and AI after college, and said, maybe it was a month or two before OpenAI released ChatGPT, and he had started an AI company, and Raised a hundred million, a hundred employees and just said, Hey, there's a lot happening in AI right now.
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We should figure out what it means for the church.
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You know, he was having a come back to Jesus experience.
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I got to be a part of a little bit.
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Andrew Rogers a, a great friend and definitely a leader in Christian ai and, that was the start of it.
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We, uh, you know, released the first application that, well, we think it was the first application in the app store, to do Christian, ai you know, calling it some sort of generative AI with, for Christians or the Bible.
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so that's, that's the here to four, how God got us into AI and, um, at, at the very tail end, our company, certainly it has a different story, but that, that, that's it.
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I really appreciate the background because I think what it, what helps me How helps me reframe you in this picture is often when I think about AI and I think about technology and the way it's advancing, I just imagine that you were always in it, you were, you had just been a techno geek from the age of like seven and you've been in this industry forever, but what it sounds like to me is that you kind of like jumped into this.
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Like very, like only a couple of years ago, I mean, chat, chat, GDP only came out a number of years ago with, and so, so were you always interested in, technology or is it only something that really piqued your interest and you dived into when your friend approached you? yeah, pretty much when my friend approached me.
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You know what, I've had maybe a real love for communication and really trying to understand things at a simple level.
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So, hopefully If you're scared of AI, or not quite sure how to make sense of it, we're on the same team.
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And, uh, I'll, I'll provide some layman's terms, but really, since then, for about the last three years, it's been, I've been on overtime, really trying to understand it, compare it to other technologies.
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and, and, you know, I have a real heart for orthodoxy, and making sure it says the right thing.
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And it matters what you believe.
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And so that's where I've really come in relating AI to the body of Christ, but also as we've trained new models, giving it a a perspective and a left and right limit, that's where I also, have a passion.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I really think that helps because it suddenly allows me to feel more relatable to you.
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And also it helps me feel like it's possible for me to get it.
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I mean, if you can get it, then I can get it.
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And so can those who are listening, could you share just the couple of initiatives that you've been involved in over the past couple of years? We will dive into them a little bit later in the interview, and then I'd love your help.
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Just as we kick off this conversation for you to kind of just unpack some of the terms, I think even AI, we haven't defined what it is yet.
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And so if we could just begin there, like a broad overview of, of the definitions around this topic, and then we can dive, dive into the pool.
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so can you share some of the initiatives that you're involved in? Yeah, shucks.
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So, and I'm happy to make sure we start.
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What is AI? so, BibleChat is an app, I got to help start.
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And, that's something that is now completely free.
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Uh, we ask for contributions, but that's something that's even, um, even largely handed over to my partners.
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Just because they are running with that and trying to scale and keep it free and accessible.
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Faith Assistant is free.
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largely what is, taking all my time, and that is really creating smart assistance for ministries, using AI and empowering ministries from schools to churches to media, uh, organizations.
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And then we just went through a merger with Glue, and so I've got my Glue jersey on here.
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And You know, they've been skating to where the puck is going, and have been working on a lot of things that, that, Church might not know it needs yet.
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And so we have a tech that works really well for folks now, and so it's a pretty cool deal.
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Before you were looking at the, relationship and customer, ministry partner success team.
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Now I have teams to help me with that.
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So my wife is happier that, um, I'm not a Lone Ranger doing all that work, so.
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Yeah, I remember being at the The Global Workplace Forum in 2019, it was a Lausanne gathering for workplace people.
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And from the stage, I think it was the first time I ever heard a Christian speaking about the use and the positive use of AI.
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I'd watched enough of these movies where the, the robots take over the world through artificial intelligence and just kind of destroying the world.
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And I remember being shocked by it.
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And, always push back on the idea, to be honest with you, I would love to hear from you, like what's the biggest misconception or pushback that you've encountered when engaging ministry leaders about using AI in the faith context? biggest misconception, is that there's only a secular AI and it is to be appropriately feared and guarded, right? And so, one of the big things that I get asked to present on and just share is what is the difference between Christian AI and secular AI, right? Like, for the internet, there's not a real difference between.
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The Christian Internet and the Secular Internet.
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We kind of missed that boat, right? there's not a Christian Internet provider or browser company that I know of.
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That would be a cool idea, but that's just not what we Same thing with, you know, Christian Broadcasting Network maybe is like an ex or Daystar is an example of a Christian television, but very limited.
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It it doesn't have all kinds of, you know, every scope of entertainment.
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but Christian Artificial Intelligence is something different.
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It is very capable.
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It can answer why is the sky blue, but it can also tell you who Jesus is.
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And, it can help you, you know, maybe give you practical advice or Christian principles on how to budget your money.
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Right.
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And so this is essentially providing an alternative, redemptive, version of this, of this capability that has come out.
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And so, That's a big misconception.
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Because there's a whole lot of education that goes on, and to say, okay, this technology should be stewarded well, cautiously approached, but definitely deployed for the kingdom.
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So can you give me some examples of how this plays out? I mean, you've spoken about the difference between secular AI and Christian AI.
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And I suppose the picture that I have in my mind is ChatGDP and the likes, where if I ask it a question, You know, is Jesus the only God, as an example, it may very well give me a very secular answer.
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depending how I ask the question, it might give me a Christian answer, but if I follow through with more questions, it'll take me anywhere and everywhere.
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when you're talking about this through like Bible chat AI or faith assistance, give me an example, give me examples of how this plays out.
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So people can grab their heads around the idea of like Christian AI.
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you know, our new partner glue.
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My team, has been doing tremendous research on benchmarking secular, large language models, right? If they quote scripture for instance, do they hallucinate, do they get it contextually right? If you.
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are taking in context the Kone Greek or Hebrew, right? And so the short answer is none of them are perfect and most of them are not very good, at using scripture in context for like a Lausanne covenant based value set.
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A lot of them and not all of them will allude to the fact that there's another perspective and I think in an honest attempt to be, you know, open minded But just to outline the problem before we address your question, we have hundreds of millions of people, particularly kids, asking very impressionable questions like, What kind of pornography is okay? Right? Because that's what a 12 or 13 year old in America is asking.
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not something else.
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It's a false premise based question, and if you ask, you know, a Gemini or whatever, I mean, that's a legal question.
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So if there are two consenting adults who are not hurting each other and it doesn't bother your conscience, well then go ahead.
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Right? It does not take into account like, you know, the God's design for humans or the objectification of, of what's going on.
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So anyway, that's an easy one.
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I take a step back and do honor to your question, AI, and then BibleChat AI, and then Faith Assistant.
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So for anyone that has missed the boat, or maybe has yet to use ChatGPT, I certainly encourage it, it's pretty crazy.
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Is I like to explain generative text based and, picture based AI as talking to a robot librarian, essentially.
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And this robot librarian, standing in the middle of a library has every book on the shelf memorized.
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And when you go and say, mister, or, uh, or just robot Funny how we talk to robots the same or, you know, algorithms the same way we talk to humans.
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It's a different topic.
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you know, hey, why is the sky blue? It's not going to give you one answer from a one textbook it's memorized.
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It's going to give you a probability based answer by word, by letter and syllable, even, of everything that it has memorized.
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So, whatever is on its shelf is essentially what it's going to give you an amalgamation of.
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Said more simply, data in, data out, right? Whatever is on its shelf is what it's going to give you.
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but then there's a lot more going on.
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And so that's how we experience it.
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But, when somebody asks that robot what is truth, you can also shape it.
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You can also train it and guard it and give it, essentially, uh, values or personality, right? so there are teams of folks well meaning, I'm sure, at secular humanist, universalist, you know, organizations, defining what answers are good and bad, and giving it human feedback reinforcement learning, right? So, was that a good answer? When someone says, I'm struggling with loneliness, did it start with compassion? Did it just give a resource? Are we not going to touch that? Like child pornography? Whoa, you know, I can't help you with that, right? what are the hot button topics? And in essence, so that, that, that's what's going on.
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And then what's, that's what's going on behind the scenes.
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Same thing with pictures.
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Is this a picture of a dog? Is it a good picture of a dog? You have humans judging that, coaching it and training that, right? And so what you're training it towards is really important.
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so for instance, at Bible chat we realized that a, a, a few things.
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Number one, if we build, this application on top of chat GPT and, and likes, and just try to train it to be a Christian.
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It's like putting Christian lipstick on something.
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Looks like it didn't talk like a Christian.
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but if you develop a relationship with someone and by that, I mean, trust has been established and the Proverbs.
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Say, well, if there's like, if you, you know, if you essentially have a good belief in their character and their competence, there's trust.
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So if it'll answer, how deep is the ocean, and it gets it right, and it'll answer, uh, who is God, then I'm gonna start to have a conversation with you.
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And if someone's struggling with something, then over time, we have the, uh, the data to know they're going to ask something a lot of times.
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So, back up, if, uh, so BibleChat AI based on a Christian large language model.
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We call it Christian GPT.
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Uh, you can access it on HuggingFaced.
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We gave it away.
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We open sourced it at Glue's Hackathon.
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Two years ago.
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we figured that it was really important for the world to have access to something like that.
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Glue has really invested a lot of time and resources into upgrading that.
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And their plans are to open source their large language model.
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in fact that's coming before, I think even like the end of the second quarter of 2025, if not the first quarter.
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To sort of time date this.
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And that'll be called Calm Kingdom Aligned Large Language Model.
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And they're going to give that to the world to build on top of.
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so that's really important because essentially it's like rather than building on sand, which constantly shifts the meaning of truth, truly what is a good and bad definition of who is God, well then you have this very solid Christian based sort of rock that you can build and train on top of.
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So, in our app.
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We've trained on really all of our answers.
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We are running through a few filters based on our values.
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One of those values that, you know, you say you're playing with it and you really like the answers.
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It's, it's meant to be non denominational, very Lausanne esque.
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I think it could be better at being inter denominational.
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Truth and love, right? So we're gonna give biblical truth, but we found that there are Genuine, a lot of people struggling with all these issues that your culture may think It's an easy honor shame.
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That's bad sinful well If that person's struggling with that issue and the devil is attacking that person with that Well, then, you know that person may feel isolated and they need somewhere to talk, you know, talk it out so truth and love Connect and unite, right? So if someone asks What about infant baptism? It's you know, just that Well, then we're going to try to do a, Hey, listen, it's been happening for 2000 years.
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Like even before the Bible was codified, it's not in the modern canon.
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Have you been baptized? Right? And so that third value is prioritize the gospel.
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Can we get you to Jesus? Right? And that's where we're really trying to, bring folks together.
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Now, we realized though, that we've had a lot of people coming to Christ as you saw, uh, Yeah.
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We had a lot of people asking for introductions.
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And it was a bit of a, I read the book Mission Drift and I became convicted along with my partners that if we're not anchored in the local church and the parachurches that are serving these people, well, we will drift, right? That's just the law almost.
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and so we said, okay, how can we train this or use this to serve ministries? Because we're essentially almost like, you know, some of those conversations you read, Jason, the Holy Spirit gets to work and we can train it and we did to when someone gives their life to Christ, you need to go tell someone, right? Like, have you told someone, right? And so that's another difference of secular AI and Christian AI.
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Secular AI I feel like is trying to serve its purpose.
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Sell you something, get you to use it more.
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Christian AI is Not just trained on a different set of text, but it's trying to get you to God and people.
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Right? It's an aid for your human flourishing.
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It's really glue has been, you know, I think in the leadership of, and so how can we help you flourish? So, we love that because now some church can use this 24 7, conversation ability.
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And build a bridge back to, hey, like, we can get you to someone who's been praying about talking about this.
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And, funny, how, uh, a lot of people don't take you up on your first, you know, the first offer of the, the assistant.
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but they will two or three times in.
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you know, it's like, uh, they're still, they don't have enough trust to talk to a human yet.
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And man, that's just our enemy's playbook, right? Like.
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Shame.
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Isolate.
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Attack.
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Destroy.
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So, I went on a rant there, so maybe, uh, help us out and make sure if there's anything that, Yeah.
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think what you've done is, has been really helpful in the sense of setting the stage and trying to unpack a bit about what, Bible chat is about, Maybe to, give some examples of some of the things I saw was, and it's connected to this thing, this idea of trust that you, you mentioned.
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so I saw one gentleman, Starting a conversation, asking really particular questions.
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And you could tell this, this guy was just trying to test the AI to see where it stood in terms of its, Doctrine and in terms of where it was going to take you.
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And to be honest, I did the same thing.
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I jumped on and I asked her some very particular questions that, Usually are quite dividing.
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And question after question, eventually he started opening up himself and sort of asking personal questions and, and, then the AI sort of taking him, and encouraging him to, to go and speak to someone, go connect with the local church.
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And it was a beautiful conversation that I realized.
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That there was some real specific training that you did.
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And I had a question that you've really answered for us in terms of like the values that you've trained this AI in, Truth and love, connect and unite, prioritize the gospel.
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I mean, one example was.
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A woman who who gave her life to Christ through a prayer that that the app gave her and she, she wrote it out and she prayed the prayer and then eventually connected with a Christian friend that she had.
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And, and that for me was just demonstrated the power potential.
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This app, it really blew me away.
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I was, I was without words yesterday as I was looking through this.
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can you unpack this for me? Because, the one equation I had as I was dealing with it was, I mean, it kept saying, you know, you know, Connect with a local church.
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And I wondered what that next step was in terms of actually getting them to connect with a local church.
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Like, Why didn't it say, Hey, here's a local church in your area, or can I suggest a local church in an area? And then like go run through a database.
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How, how have you now bridged that gap between just the app and the local church? church.
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Yeah, so we're it's on our development pipeline to plug into Glu's Churches Care, which they've done some great job pioneering, this interconnected web of churches, right? So if I want to elect, okay, introduce me.
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Man, it's, it's, it's overdue, right? Because if someone literally starts the conversation in the first couple weeks with a statement like, how do you come, overcome? Spirit of anxiety and like, you know, and, and, and fear of people.
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And then two or three months later, it says, okay, I'm ready to talk to someone.
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Dear God, we got to get you to a Christian, right? Like, okay, we need to get someone that's going to handle you with, with, with love.
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And it makes me tear up thinking about it.
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There's so many people like that.
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And so, and so that, you know, glue has a church's care product that we're working to bridge that gap.
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But.
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It's also something, I'm proud of our team our other founders have been passionate about it as well, but we said, okay, put this on the shelf.
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Let's work on Faith Assistant.
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Let's really start, we're gonna keep the app free, and um, it is free and always will be free.
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So there's a couple other BibleChat apps out there actually that have come and paid for a lot of advertising, but charged weekly.
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God bless them.
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Um.
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So, ours is free, it always will be free, and it's our gift to you.
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Right? So, there's that.
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Faith Assistant, we said, okay, let's go and empower ministries with this.
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and that's phenomenal.
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Turns out, Glue has done a bunch of research with Barna, a number of other, you know, institutes, and, um, A lot of people have a frustration trying to find when does child pick up on the church website, or whatever, right? Or, you know, how do I find, how do I get you to the right person? there's a lot of research, at least in America, and I think it's fair to say, uh, the western world, that people are taking longer to get into a church.
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In two particular facets that are measurable.
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One folks are looking at a church longer online before taking the risk of showing up in person, right? So between two to five sermons or clips to watch, and then between two to four sermons or visits before they self identify at the welcome center or fill out a connect card.
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We have some of the data to say, well, if they've got a, you know, if this church has a QR code.
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It says, Hey, are, you know, new here exploring, ask any anonymous question.
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And you know, and Jason, they're doing that same thing, right? There's, they're exploring just like they might on the app.
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They're going to ask like, okay, who is Jesus? Why do bad things happen to good people? Those are ephemeral.
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And then they're going to kind of turn it to, well, how do I get closer to God? All right.
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That's a pivot question.
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We're getting warm in there.
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And then, I think you probably saw the conversation, it was so perfect.
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It starts mental, then there's like, okay, you know, how do I improve, you know, struggle with anxiety? And then it's like, wow, how do I defeat addiction to porn? It's like, oof, okay, we're, we're, we're, Holy Spirit's at work now, right? and, and, and when you empower a church with a tech, it's okay, you know, who's God? Why do Christians take gays? Or, you know, or do people love, you know, gays? And it's like, oh, you're just trying to figure out the vibe of the church.
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Like, you might believe in biblical truth here, but are you going to love my sister in law who might come? And I wanna, you know, are you gonna sort of judge her out of the door right away? Kind of thing, right? And so, that's fascinating, to be able to give a church that What are people walking in that are new asking? They're trying to, you know, feel you out on.
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so, so give me some examples of how churches are using faith assistance.
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So you mentioned some data that they can get from it.
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Give me some examples of what they've done with that data or like some creative ways or fair, you were sharing creative way in which one church was using faith assistant, which I thought was brilliant.
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Could you just unpack that for us? yeah, Church and DFW, uh, a one to one community church, very innovative.
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They have printed out these three by three cards, different colors, and they gave them to their Fellowship of Christian Athletes students.
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On one side, the card says something inflammatory.
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What is the purpose of life? Why are so many Christians hypocrites? Why did God create me this way? How do I deal with anxiety? And on the other side is a QR code.
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Really simple.
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Not very churchy.
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And they told their Fellowship of Christian Athletes students Go hide these in the locker rooms and cafeterias and wherever.
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Put them on bulletin boards, right? And we're going to do a new release every so often.
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And they've had an explosive amount of data, right? Come through, conversations.
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They're conversation starters.
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Kids are taking this home, maybe not the card, but that, that bot, or that, that now assistant, and they're asking the church, or the church's assistant, how do you know if you have an eating disorder? At 10pm, right? Oh, now we're somewhere, right? Cause that, that, that kid's asking the church and not Google or ChatGPT, right? And so that church, actually, most of their youth ministry content is based off of those conversations.
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they've got so much data from one school, you know, they might.
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Tell the administration over the summertime.
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Like, hey, we've got some data on your students.
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We don't know who, right? But we want to serve you with this.
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Here's another example.
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Um, that, you know, we could call it a chatbot.
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And functionally, it's having a chat with you.
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It's closer to a church secretary.
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Why? Because we're training it like a secretary who might answer the phone.
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So, let's say, Another church wants to, assess their small group Bible study leaders on what they believe and and also coach them on orthodoxy or on the doctrine that the church believes, you know, because some places really still believe that it matters what you believe.
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So, so you might say, Hey, I'm a small group leader, help coach me.
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And then the assistant having.
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Integrated the last 10 years of your content everything from Bible studies to YouTube to Vimeo everything all the content you've ever produced We've created an AI model for that church now Says okay You know, can you talk to me about the Trinity and who is Jesus and but also how you would explain that to a non believer and then if I give some Answer like oh, yeah, you know God's like ice, water, and gas.
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You know, it's really just, you know, the same God, different states, and Jesus is like, you know, the ice form of God.
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It's gonna go, oh, well, hey, actually, that's like a modalist, heretical misconception of who God is.
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Can I, can I, you know, God, actually, you know, God is three in one.
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He is, he's co eternal, and it's going to give some feedback And then walk them through a number of different questions.
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So, but that's just the interaction with the Bible study leader.
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What it's going to happen is this is going to be able to aggregate all those conversations and then provide church leadership, especially big churches who might have hundreds of group leaders.
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Hey, your formation of lay leaders doesn't understand the Trinity.
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Essentially.
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Right.
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You need to teach and preach on that.
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and that's a really, but it could do the same thing for a new believer, but instead of that type of deep, deep question, it's just going to ask, Hey, who is Jesus? And what's this mean to you? Right.
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And then, and then, and spoon feed or bottle feed to use, you know, milk and meat example, so that's another use case.
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it also, you know, increases outreach and engagement, right? So.
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By far, the, the most use, common use case is, is administrative.
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When's the Easter egg hunt? Can I rent church services? Which is great, because now, church staff is actually using their time for ministry.
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Right? But, um, but think of like the social media example.
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Which is the same type of thing, because you scanned a QR code, and it immediately took you to a conversation.
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Which Right? So if that QR code's on a billboard, if that QR code's on a printed Bible study or a Sunday church pamphlet people walk in on, fine.
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I'll give you two other examples.
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I've been talking about social media.
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Some church, some big ministry, might have a men's event coming up.
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And maybe it's a purity thing.
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Before, the email might say, hey, fill out this form, read this blog, sign up.
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The social media ad might say, Hey, look at this three minute testimony of some guy who came last year.
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Boy, his life was transformed.
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Yours will be too.
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Please sign up.
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It's one way communication.
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AI is helping ministries turn every piece of one way communication into a conversation.
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So that same social media ad is now, are you a slave to your own lust? You want to chat about becoming free right now? Click here, talk with our anonymous AI team.
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And then that assistant is trained to have a conversation and recommend a sign up to the amends event.
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Right? That's a And, oh, by the way, that church is getting data on people that are geographically local to them and what people are talking about as their issues.
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I mean, I think one of, one of the things that, that I felt as I was, just reading some of the, the content that came out of your ministry in terms of the engagement that you've had, and it's almost the same kind of tension I experienced when I'm thinking about, you know, chat GTP, uh, or, uh, Any kind of AI usage in ministry is like the depersonalization of, of what's happening here.
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like for instance, you mentioned the, the moving of the Holy Spirit as people are engaging with a computer, essentially not another human being.
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And, and there's a part of me that feels really uncomfortable with that in the sense of saying, is that even like, is ministry possible? Without people.
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and then on the flip side, what I'm hearing from you is, is maybe depersonalization is part of the gift that AI is bringing to ministry in the sense of like, it's breaking down those barriers that people Won't want to come and speak to a pastor or a ministry leader or a missions leader straight away about the deepest, darkest sin in their lives.
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But they might very well be willing to do that with an AI bot that they know has no connection to them in the real world.
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So can you unpack that for me? Like, how do you respond to the concerns of depersonalization of ministry through AI? life on life is the way Jesus did it, and the way it should be done.
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And so, AI does not have a testimony.
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And we know there are only, I think in Revelation, only two things that really overcome attack, you know, the advances in the enemy.
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Number one is the blood of the Lamb.
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And the other's gonna be the testimony of the saints.
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Right? And so we've tried to get the language out of this thing, even to the point of like, when providing empathy, don't say, I know how you're feeling.
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You don't, right? You can say, I'm really sorry you're going through this and how long has this been going on? Blah, blah, blah, blah.
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But you don't know.
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Right? So we need to be very careful with language, right? To the point where, when someone says, what do you believe? As Christians, we need to take a stand to say, Actually, I don't have beliefs.
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I have biases.
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I'm an AI chatbot.
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I can't, you know, so many useful saw on that document.
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We had two to three different people ask, can I be your friend? Why? Because you've been so nice to me.
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Hey, I can't form a relationship.
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I'm an assistant.
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I'm here to serve you.
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I'm happy to chat with you and help get you to somebody.
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Well, that's something, right? There is a depersonalization, here, right? But again, what's its, what's its purpose? Is it to get you to someone? Is it good to get you to God? but what we're really dealing with here is a conversation around scripture.
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Right? If that's our bedrock, then, then we, it's, it's I think it's less personal than watching Billy Graham on TV.
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But isn't it weird we were having the same kind of conversations? Is that a real conversion if someone gives their life to Christ in the living room without somebody there watching a televangelist? Or, let's make it less personal, on the radio.
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That is still a person, no doubt, speaking over the, the, the, you know, the FM waves.
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or AM if you're still doing that.
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but what's really happening is we're just Repackaging and regurgitating scripture in a conversational format.
330
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Right? So what's fascinating Jason is, boy, if there's a dissertation or pre dissertation student out there that loves theology and stats, I have data for you.
331
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and would explore giving, or there's a professor that wants to, uh, a semester project for the class standing offer, right? When, let's say we have a new believer come in.
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Particularly, we have a lot of proof they're a new believer.
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They were struggling with something.
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Boy, they have a, you know, a confession of faith.
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And then, boy, who'd have thunk three weeks later they're saying, Is there a verse I can memorize? Right? Like, it's, it's like the Holy Spirit is working.
336
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Right? What's your chapter should I read? It's, it's crazy.
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Especially when it's just, it's just, It's, regurgitating the Bible.
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What should I do now? Well, hey, you need to make sure you're in fellowship.
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And from one of the conversations I even shared with you, the person goes, okay, what now? Go talk to someone, a Christian pastor, a friend.
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They come back a couple of weeks later to say, okay, I found somebody.
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It's like, it's kind of like a, this is the best way you could call it.
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Depersonalization of ministry.
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This becomes a trusted resource and a special place.
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kind of like the church or the, you know, the, the, the scene you have in your mind where you first gave your life to Christ.
345
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like, okay, so I'm gonna, so there's a big responsibility there, uh, but I'm gonna come back there for just like the same reasons you trust Google to give you good answers.
346
00:37:08,284.7225861 --> 00:37:10,814.7225861
No analysis, just giving you good answers, but from a Christian perspective.
347
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Yeah.
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Chase.
349
00:37:12,92.5268115 --> 00:37:20,362.5268115
I mean, what I've really appreciated about this is you've really helped to, to direct our thoughts into realizing, okay, this, this is something that can be used for ministry.
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00:37:20,362.5268115 --> 00:37:33,282.5268115
And I think a lot of the context that we've given is the local church, but a lot of our listeners are passionate about taking the gospel to the ends of the earth and fulfilling the great Commission.
351
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So how do you see AI breaking down the barriers of evangelism in taking the gospel? To, to new, all people in new ways.
352
00:37:41,698.4539299 --> 00:37:43,418.4539299
Oh yeah, so thanks for asking.
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Uh, we're even exploring with some folks in some countries where sharing the gospel is less than legal.
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you know, hey, ask our church a question.
355
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Or, hey, do you want to learn about Jesus? Right? It's one of those, you can't offer it, but you can answer questions.
356
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and other places where we're equipping believers through, um, Maybe it's a Facebook messenger channel.
357
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We have a lot of folks and we're, you know, open to chat with any missionary organization or any pastoral training organization.
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You know, one of the reasons we were at the Global Church Leader meeting is because they've got the online Divinity School for, you know, the cost of 20.
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They can essentially give a mini seminary education.
360
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And so, when we see very Long conversations With would be pastors who are asking, you know, essentially sermon based questions and you can assert us, you know ascertain that by Hey for my sermon this or for blah blah blah blah and then they ask so Why can't I do this voodoo thing? I've heard that like and you're like, whoa, I Have a clear Western assumption and bias that We need to make this, uh, these tools of, you know, scriptural literacy available to everybody.
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Because there are some people who love Jesus, but don't know that fully, or fully know that, you know, including voodoo and some of their practices is wrong.
362
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And I was just in Nigeria, and they were telling me, you know, the commonality of that in West Africa and South Africa and East Africa.
363
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And so, it's an education for pastors, right? That should be free.
364
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Or if we can, if we can get it out there.
365
00:39:23,915.2297621 --> 00:39:32,93.7344833
but this kind of tech is also cool because if that medical missionary wants to know how to splint a leg, it's the same source, right? Yeah.
366
00:39:32,93.7354833 --> 00:39:36,71.7590701
And so this is not only something that can be white labeled, but that's really what faith assistant is.
367
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It doesn't look like faith assistant.
368
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It looks at like your Christian assistant.
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And we can put that anywhere that can be in WhatsApp.
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That can be in a QR code.
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that you print and put on your gospel track that you pass out.
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That can be goodness in the United States, uh, you know, via text messages.
373
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It can answer your Facebook or Instagram messenger, you know, uh, a hot link.
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And maybe if you're a social influencer, with a podcast or anything, you want to put that in your, your, your show notes.
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Those are all great things.
376
00:40:05,760.0327953 --> 00:40:19,142.852057
And Not only does it give you data on what people chat about in your audience, so you can minister to them specifically, it also gives them a very private way to interact, with your, essentially your content.
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And, um, the only thing that hasn't been explicitly laid out there is what we're really trying to do is serve ministries with their own AI model.
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That way, they can go forward knowing, at scale, This isn't gonna, color outside the lines for them.
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It's gonna minister to folks, sort of within the Lausanne Covenant, but within their particular belief set.
380
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I'd be curious to hear, I mean, we're going to have to begin wrapping up the conversation, but, and I'd love to wrap it up in a, in like a practical note.
381
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So I'm sure that there are, if those who are listening or listening up until this point, you know, they're, likely very interested in taking this further for themselves.
382
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Yeah.
383
00:40:56,67.3672625 --> 00:41:04,767.9301071
What next steps would you suggest for them to take? perhaps there's nothing like this, Within their own ministry or even within the kind of ministry that they're doing.
384
00:41:05,347.9301071 --> 00:41:16,684.4113706
How can they experiment without feeling overwhelmed or lost? like, are there any resources that you can point them to that they can begin to, to explore this for themselves? Yeah, thanks for asking, right? So faithassistant.
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com, we have a free faith assistant on their live so you can chat with it.
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00:41:21,254.4113706 --> 00:41:28,904.4113706
It's not fully integrated with like a YouTube channel or anything but you can ask it for a very, very non denom perspective on, on things.
387
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because when it's integrated with YouTube, for instance.
388
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And you ask about anxiety, it'll take you to the 20 minute mark of a sermon and give you that 20 minute mark link.
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Which is pretty cool.
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00:41:39,246.0780372 --> 00:41:44,245.9780372
So, if you have a vast library of content, this makes everything much more discoverable and integrable.
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00:41:44,246.0780372 --> 00:41:47,636.0770372
But you can, um, either book a demo with our team you can learn more.
392
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You can also see some of our existing ministry partners using it in use there.
393
00:41:52,336.0780372 --> 00:41:59,95.0973974
And I can even provide some of the, the, those links to you, Jason, just so, you know, folks can, Experiment with some of the churches or ministries.
394
00:41:59,575.0973974 --> 00:42:14,865.0973974
And we've got ministries from Christian colleges and seminaries, to, you know, I was talking about a homeschool teacher association, to Elise Palau's Hope with God website is integrated with this, Answers in Genesis is about to release.
395
00:42:15,385.0963974 --> 00:42:24,265.0963974
So if you want to know if dinosaurs were on the ark, you know, their thing will tell you, which is, you know, who is Noah's favorite animal? It'll give you an opinion at least.
396
00:42:24,655.0973974 --> 00:42:27,565.0973974
And so it's, it's pretty cool.
397
00:42:27,728.4307308 --> 00:42:28,698.4307308
so faithassistant.
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00:42:28,698.4307308 --> 00:42:33,298.5477372
com, you can have a conversation if you want the, uh, the individual app, uh, biblechat.
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00:42:33,328.5477372 --> 00:42:34,678.5467372
ai or on the app store.
400
00:42:34,678.5477372 --> 00:42:35,578.5467372
It's free Bible chat.
401
00:42:36,110.7187523 --> 00:42:41,60.7187523
and what I would say is, you know, we just talked about really faith assistant, a little bit about Bible chat.
402
00:42:41,410.7187523 --> 00:42:47,20.7187523
What we're doing for organizations is also making their content so much more discoverable, for instance.
403
00:42:47,830.7187523 --> 00:42:56,76.82846
If we have done something for Answers in Genesis, right? And they have an entire body of content and essentially their own assistants.
404
00:42:56,826.82846 --> 00:42:59,776.82746
And you're a ministry that goes, yeah, I really love their content.
405
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I want to tap into that.
406
00:43:02,266.82846 --> 00:43:06,456.82846
In fact, educate my assistant like you've educated AIG's.
407
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We'll go, okay, and plug their data in.
408
00:43:10,346.82846 --> 00:43:25,366.82846
And so now, your assistant has, is trained on a Series of academic journals of creation science, right? And so we're, we're allowing sharing so that the Christian ecosystem can be more interconnected.
409
00:43:25,366.82846 --> 00:43:34,619.90846
There's no reason we can't empower a radio station and we have a few with creation science, uh, material if they're both willing to let that happen.
410
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So we're doing that Fantastic.
411
00:43:36,712.4369107 --> 00:43:51,298.4951267
And as you look ahead into like the next, like five to 10 years, what are you hoping to see when it comes to ministry integration with AI? Yeah, and I would love to see ministries ahead of this and not like, okay fine we'll get a website 10 years later.
412
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We'll be a smart assistant on the website.
413
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Essentially we're having the DL Moody Center, I think it's the first that I've seen, literally building their website around this.
414
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It's a totally new website and in essence there's a search bar or what looks like one in the middle of the page.
415
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And it just says, chat with us.
416
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And you can speak to it, you can talk to it.
417
00:44:10,731.5201267 --> 00:44:11,831.4201267
It hasn't quite launched yet.
418
00:44:13,861.4201267 --> 00:44:15,141.4201267
And, I'm talking to the website.
419
00:44:16,81.4201267 --> 00:44:17,201.4191267
And it's going to give me whatever I want.
420
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Right? I think in that many years there will be an avatar of, that probably looks like I want it to look, however that means.
421
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And it'll talk to me, using my jargon, and grammar and colloquialisms.
422
00:44:31,201.4201267 --> 00:44:48,366.4191267
And so if I can't talk to the next presidential candidate in America, I'll be, I'll be, I'll be surprised, right? Because technology exists to there, so if So I, I, I think the Christian websites and things should have a smart assistant that can chat with people about whatever they want to chat about.
423
00:44:48,492.0265773 --> 00:44:48,862.0265773
Wow.
424
00:44:49,112.0265773 --> 00:44:49,592.0265773
Okay.
425
00:44:50,152.0265773 --> 00:44:55,332.0275773
And tell me, how can people connect with you? You mentioned a few links that we'll share in the show notes.
426
00:44:55,632.0275773 --> 00:44:58,301.4191267
Uh, can people connect with you online? Yeah, please.
427
00:44:58,301.4191267 --> 00:45:05,521.4186267
You know what? I'm probably most active if I'm online on LinkedIn, but right now you can connect with me and my team via faithassistant.
428
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com.
429
00:45:06,241.036615 --> 00:45:06,641.036615
yeah.
430
00:45:06,701.036615 --> 00:45:11,831.037615
And you know what? I'm, I'm on Facebook too, but, God knows I need less social media in my life.
431
00:45:11,861.037615 --> 00:45:13,585.9907478
And so I am, Fair enough.
432
00:45:13,585.9907478 --> 00:45:13,795.9907478
Yeah.
433
00:45:13,981.037615 --> 00:45:16,491.037615
yeah, faithassistant.
434
00:45:16,521.8695438 --> 00:45:17,21.8695438
Good.
435
00:45:17,81.8695438 --> 00:45:22,687.7042816
Any closing thoughts, Chase, as we wrap up the podcast interview? Yeah, hey, you know what? Pray for us, please.
436
00:45:23,127.7042816 --> 00:45:26,37.7042816
It's so weird how prayer works, or how God lets it work.
437
00:45:26,147.7042816 --> 00:45:27,147.7042816
It just blows my mind.
438
00:45:27,467.7042816 --> 00:45:44,337.7042816
And so, man, maybe it'd be cool if I could pray for us and Christians that are in this space, because we need wisdom, and there's so many ways we could kind of explore, but also get off the difficult, narrow road.
439
00:45:44,747.7042816 --> 00:45:47,187.7042816
And so, God, keep our feet on the right path.
440
00:45:47,810.6202461 --> 00:45:48,170.6202461
Yeah.
441
00:45:48,170.6202461 --> 00:45:50,800.6202461
I mean, I would love for you to close this off in prayer.
442
00:45:50,926.8522588 --> 00:45:52,976.8522588
Before you do it, Chase, I just want to thank you.
443
00:45:53,446.8522588 --> 00:45:54,286.8522588
Thank you for your time.
444
00:45:54,286.8522588 --> 00:45:56,726.8512588
Thank you for sharing your insights with us.
445
00:45:56,726.8522588 --> 00:46:05,566.8522588
But you know, I think what I appreciate about this conversation is that we're speaking to a practitioner who's, who's in this space trying to advance God's kingdom in this space.
446
00:46:05,626.8522588 --> 00:46:14,46.8522588
And so thank you for being willing to be on the forefront of this and sharing your insights with us And Even the platform, you know, giving things out for free.
447
00:46:14,475.1855922 --> 00:46:20,605.1855922
I pray that God will bless you guys in all that you do as you, as you are open handed with the global church.
448
00:46:20,605.1855922 --> 00:46:22,356.02033
So thank you thank Thanks, Jason.
449
00:46:22,356.02033 --> 00:46:33,276.405504
You know, maybe just one small testimony there is like, uh, I don't know, I think when I was, you know, doing the consulting job, this was maybe, maybe six months before you know, we really kicked this off.
450
00:46:34,8.0721707 --> 00:46:42,8.0721707
I was putting a ton of time and effort into my small group, planning a bunch, and our numbers, you know, would go from like 30 to 8 to 12 to whatever.
451
00:46:42,368.0711707 --> 00:46:50,818.0721707
And here I am, dumb, focusing on the number of people that show up, right? And not just like the one person God wants for us.
452
00:46:50,818.1721707 --> 00:46:58,638.0711707
But, if you know, you're asking me in my, my journey, it's like, I, I, I'm more commonly ahead of God.
453
00:46:59,58.0721707 --> 00:47:07,908.0721707
And so I was pouting in prayer and I was just like, God, you know, I'm asking your help to do not to do more than your will.
454
00:47:08,48.0711707 --> 00:47:09,838.0721707
Like, I wish I needed your help to do your will.
455
00:47:10,548.0711707 --> 00:47:10,968.0711707
Kind of.
456
00:47:11,18.0721707 --> 00:47:18,338.0721707
And he's like, Hey, you're going to make disciples of nations, right? So just, just, just, just wait.
457
00:47:18,968.0721707 --> 00:47:21,118.0721707
I'm like, whatever, whatever that means.
458
00:47:21,908.0721707 --> 00:47:25,528.0721707
And then, you know, not, but six months later, like there's this thing.
459
00:47:25,528.0721707 --> 00:47:31,343.0721707
So God has You know, dude, who am I? Right? And so, uh, God help us.
460
00:47:31,563.0721707 --> 00:47:32,394.4419814
But I would Yeah.
461
00:47:32,727.7753148 --> 00:47:33,147.7753148
Thank you.
462
00:47:33,551.1086481 --> 00:47:33,801.1086481
Yeah.
463
00:47:34,209.7388374 --> 00:47:36,436.1629491
God, Father God, thank you for, Jason.
464
00:47:36,446.1629491 --> 00:47:37,366.1629491
Thank you for Lausanne.
465
00:47:37,486.1619491 --> 00:47:40,326.1629491
Please, please, please continue to anoint them and protect them.
466
00:47:40,994.4955732 --> 00:47:49,714.4955732
and give them a passion for your truth and your love and for spreading the love of Jesus and, uh, the good news of, uh, the forgiveness of Jesus blood.
467
00:47:50,584.4955732 --> 00:47:56,144.4945732
Uh, Father, for any practitioner in, in AI and now for Glue, and us.
468
00:47:57,144.4955732 --> 00:48:01,854.4955732
Please keep our feet on the difficult narrow road and give us a joy and peace by that.
469
00:48:02,254.4955732 --> 00:48:04,404.4955732
And Lord, take our peace if we are off that.
470
00:48:04,474.4955732 --> 00:48:09,384.4955732
And use your members, please, to keep us honest and moving toward you.
471
00:48:09,684.4955732 --> 00:48:11,564.4955732
And dear God, help us be one.
472
00:48:12,44.4945732 --> 00:48:13,884.4945732
And thank you for Lausanne's leadership in that.
473
00:48:14,44.4955732 --> 00:48:26,677.5946175
And just, um, please use this, but just, you know, ignite us even more because of this, to live, uh, life on life and to be vulnerable and to share your love with the, with the people you want us to.
474
00:48:27,7.5946175 --> 00:48:29,27.5946175
Thanks for Jesus and for your sacrifice.
475
00:48:29,27.5956176 --> 00:48:30,705.6320949
In Jesus name, Amen.
476
00:48:31,115.6310949 --> 00:48:31,635.6310949
Chase.
477
00:48:31,675.6320949 --> 00:48:32,625.6320949
Thanks for blessing us.
478
00:48:32,871.2688481 --> 00:48:33,491.2688481
Right on, Jason.
479
00:48:33,501.2688481 --> 00:48:33,921.2688481
Thanks, man.
480
00:48:34,940.9563224 --> 00:48:39,30.9563224
Well, I hope that you enjoyed this episode of the Lausanne Movement Podcast.
481
00:48:39,310.9563224 --> 00:48:49,660.9563224
Next week, we will be back with a story from the Lausanne Movement's God on the Move podcast, which shares inspiring stories of faithful believers from the global church.
482
00:48:49,869.5577909 --> 00:48:55,949.5577909
This show will surely encourage you in your own faithful obedience to God's global mission.
483
00:48:56,161.7882795 --> 00:49:02,521.7892795
You can find a link to God on the Move in the show notes, where you can subscribe so that you won't miss when the episode drops.
484
00:49:02,826.5159507 --> 00:49:08,756.5159507
If you did enjoy the show, I want to encourage you to leave us a rating and review and share it with a friend.
485
00:49:09,245.1384865 --> 00:49:10,45.1384865
Till next week.
486
00:49:10,415.1384865 --> 00:49:10,865.1384865
Cheers.