WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to Label Sessions Presents,
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the podcast where we talk to the most interesting
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people about all the things you need to know
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in the world of innovation, business design,
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tech and culture. I'm Fuzlan Esau. And today
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we're joined by two new expert leaders to join
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the Label Sessions roster, as well as Josh Nixon
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from the Label Sessions team. Welcome everyone.
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Hi everyone. How are you doing? Hello. Great.
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Thank you. Great to be here. Thank you. Awesome.
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So hello and welcome to Brian White. Brian is
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based on for building a global supply chain for
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a native botanical that previously had zero commercial
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infrastructure. Beyond his own company, Brian
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serves as a venture builder and advisor to dozens
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of early stage founders through builders and
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backers. So welcome, Brian. Thanks for having
00:00:46.210 --> 00:00:51.060
me. Also a big welcome to Greg McCallum. Greg
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is best known as the no BS advisor. He brings
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brutal clarity to messy commercial questions,
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whether it's fixing revenue plateaus, resetting
00:01:01.420 --> 00:01:04.379
go to market strategy or turning a founder led
00:01:04.379 --> 00:01:07.719
sales hustle into a functioning organization.
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Thank you very much. Great to be here. So we
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will jump straight in. And the first thing we're
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talking about is a new app called T and it T
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is sort of this new, I wouldn't call it a dating
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app. It's an app to get some information on the
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individual that you may be seeing. So it's enabling
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women to secretly review men. And it's proving
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very popular. So popular that it had a data feature
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over the weekend. But the question is, is this
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a positive trend where we're able to do these
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sort of, I guess, a way to look out for other
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people through information. But also what does
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this mean for concerns around data? We've just
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seen all of the data got hacked over the weekend.
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And what does this mean about dating culture
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when we sort of are popping in? to do reviews
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as we're going along. Greg, I think, you know,
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as an OBS advisor, I feel like you can have a
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great take on this. I had a feeling you might
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come to me first on this one. Look, this this
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company will be dead within the next year. It's
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just that simple. There's no longevity in organizations
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that capitalize on gossip behavior and toxicity.
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There are plenty of groups on Facebook and on
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forums online where people can go get together
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and bond over their toxic behavior and criticizing
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human beings. Twitter exists pretty much fundamentally
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for that entire purpose. It is not a robust business
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model. It's not one that's built on the best
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of what humanity has to offer, and for that exact
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reason it's destined to fail. Like most other
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apps that have tried to capitalize on similar
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behavior in the past, it's not. interested in
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any way in facilitating romance between people,
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in creating better connections, its only interest
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is in fostering hatred between individuals. So
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it has no place in the future of the app infrastructure.
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And, you know, I think to go, you know, just
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slightly one step further, I mean, I think the
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leaks that have basically pared that out, because
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it's just proven the point of where everyone's
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concern was initially with this anyway, because
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everyone can see exactly black and white. exactly
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what everyone's been saying, and who's been saying
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it. So yeah, to be honest, that's my only take
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on it. It might not be particularly innovative
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or mind blowing, but it is what it is. And people
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are always going to make crappy apps to try and
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make a few quid on the backs of putting other
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people down. That's just the industry we're in,
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unfortunately. And like you said, Twitter does
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already exist and fills a lot of that role. But
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at least it's public. So at least I think morally
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it's on a higher standing. That's the first time
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I've ever heard anyone say that sentence. It
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is. Morally speaking, Twitter is, I mean, Twitter,
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I think fits, I mean, not to get too diverted,
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but it absolutely fits on with the public square
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ethos, which is, you know, say things publicly
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and, and, you know, risk offending people and
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also risk being offended. I mean, that, that
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is the point of public discourse is you can say
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something and people absolutely have the right
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to disagree and then, and then make their counterclaim
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back to you. And you have, you have to accept
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that that is the responsibility. that you take
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when you say something publicly. And that's the
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point. If you hide people behind an app and give
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them this false sense of security, of which,
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by the way, doesn't exist in technology in a
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way, then you're just encouraging people to be
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the worst of themselves. And so that's not a
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great way to educate people on how to engage
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in public discourse, in my opinion. Well, I like
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the name. I mean, it seems accurate. It's a one
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positive one positive. Yeah, yeah. I could be
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forgiven a small pun, you know, it's like apropos.
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Yeah, I mean, I, I've I'm newly single and using
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dating apps for the first time. So I'm like,
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Oh, shit. I mean, it's just kind of scary, right?
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I mean, it's like vigilante justice with the
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user experience in some ways. So I think it does
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raise a lot of questions about privacy and consent
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and digital permanence. I mean, these things
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never go away, right? But I do think it offers
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some interesting cultural signals, like, you
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know, there's women have a desire for accountability
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and dating and the traditional safety structures
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that are in place are not providing it. So I
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don't think that that should be ignored. But
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I kind of agree that the negative is going to
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outweigh the positive here. And there's going
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to be a lot of unintended consequences. I hope
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I don't end up on it. Or maybe I get fired. Whatever
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it is. Based on what I've just said today, I
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know for a fact I'm probably going to be an end
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up on it even though I'm not even though I'm
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married and I have kids. You know what I mean?
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But yeah, he's the thing. I don't care. I don't
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care. Might be your everyone's Coldplay moment,
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you know, like, right. What a cultural moment
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that was. Yeah, yeah. The whole data protection
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aspect of it ties in really nicely to something
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that happened recently in the UK with the online
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safety act coming into fruition. You can either
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upload a photo of your driver's license or use
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some weird AI fingamajiggy to prove that you're
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ready to go on some nefarious sites, but also
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other sites are getting caught on that same block
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or two that aren't even necessarily just porn.
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that I find fascinating about the tea situation
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that ties into that is that they were using the
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exact same tech that the UK government is in
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terms of like, you just turn your webcam on and
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then you, you know, hold your face up to it,
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turn left to right to technically prove that
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you're a human and that's it. And then, you know,
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the number one thing that people were saying
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is it's not a matter of if data is going to leak,
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but when. And for the fact that it happened with
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a company the exact same week it launched. is
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just hilarious to me. So it's just what's gonna
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happen next, you know? Yeah, I mean, just to
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jump in on that, like, I think... There's a couple
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of things there. I mean, first off, to kind of
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defend that company somewhat, even though I just
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absolutely blast them a minute ago, like they
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didn't expect to go viral and get the attention
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that they did. They did. And then therefore they
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became the, you know, the target of hackers to
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expose that data. But, you know, no one could
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have really prepared in that organization for
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the level of virality. And, you know, just knowing
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what we probably all know about startups is that
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you don't you know, you build things as you go.
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And so you wouldn't have built that level of
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infrastructure to, you know, for cybersecurity
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purposes that early on, you know, the budget
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would have been allocated for that later and
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so on. So, you know, to give some credit where,
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you know, it's kind of due or maybe not due is,
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you know, it's not entirely their fault that
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they didn't really see that coming. Maybe they
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should have done, you could maybe put some accountability
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there. But then in terms of like the the new
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acts coming into force in the UK, I mean, I personally
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think it's actually a pretty good move to be
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moving in that direction somewhat. I mean, again,
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you can make that sort of... somewhat moot point
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of, yeah, but it's easy to get around. You can
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say that about literally anything. I mean, you
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know, needing an ID to go and buy alcohol, you
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know, the minimum age to have sexual intercourse
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or buy cigarettes. People are always going to
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find ways to get around things. That doesn't
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mean you shouldn't try and do something in order
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to protect people. The reality is that the internet
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has, you know, an enormous amount of content
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on it that absolutely isn't appropriate for a
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lot of people at certain ages. And up till literally
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this point, at least in the UK, there's been
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very little, if any, attempts to ensure that
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we're doing something to prevent people from
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accessing that. So something is better than nothing,
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and it is headed in the right direction. Is it
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being mishandled in some ways? Yes. Is it being
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maybe applied to certain websites or content
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that shouldn't do? Yes. That is just the nature
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of implementing a new process. It's messy, and
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it takes time to even out over time. But it will,
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I'm sure. It will get more robust over time.
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Hello and welcome to Label Sessions Presents,
00:00:02.299 --> 00:00:04.320
the podcast where we talk to the most interesting
00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:06.419
people about all the things you need to know
00:00:06.419 --> 00:00:08.480
in the world of innovation, business design,
00:00:08.679 --> 00:00:11.580
tech and culture. I'm Fuzlan Esau. And today
00:00:11.580 --> 00:00:15.039
we're joined by two new expert leaders to join
00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:18.059
the Label Sessions roster, as well as Josh Nixon
00:00:18.059 --> 00:00:20.980
from the Label Sessions team. Welcome everyone.
00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:23.339
Hi everyone. How are you doing? Hello. Great.
00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:25.289
Thank you. Great to be here. Thank you. Awesome.
00:00:25.670 --> 00:00:29.010
So hello and welcome to Brian White. Brian is
00:00:29.010 --> 00:00:31.570
based on for building a global supply chain for
00:00:31.570 --> 00:00:35.450
a native botanical that previously had zero commercial
00:00:35.450 --> 00:00:38.289
infrastructure. Beyond his own company, Brian
00:00:38.289 --> 00:00:40.710
serves as a venture builder and advisor to dozens
00:00:40.710 --> 00:00:43.210
of early stage founders through builders and
00:00:43.210 --> 00:00:46.210
backers. So welcome, Brian. Thanks for having
00:00:46.210 --> 00:00:51.060
me. Also a big welcome to Greg McCallum. Greg
00:00:51.060 --> 00:00:55.579
is best known as the no BS advisor. He brings
00:00:55.579 --> 00:00:58.399
brutal clarity to messy commercial questions,
00:00:58.539 --> 00:01:01.420
whether it's fixing revenue plateaus, resetting
00:01:01.420 --> 00:01:04.379
go to market strategy or turning a founder led
00:01:04.379 --> 00:01:07.719
sales hustle into a functioning organization.
00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:09.840
Thank you very much. Great to be here. So we
00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:13.239
will jump straight in. And the first thing we're
00:01:13.239 --> 00:01:19.280
talking about is a new app called T and it T
00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:23.319
is sort of this new, I wouldn't call it a dating
00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:27.439
app. It's an app to get some information on the
00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:30.280
individual that you may be seeing. So it's enabling
00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:35.819
women to secretly review men. And it's proving
00:01:35.819 --> 00:01:40.540
very popular. So popular that it had a data feature
00:01:40.540 --> 00:01:44.299
over the weekend. But the question is, is this
00:01:44.670 --> 00:01:47.790
a positive trend where we're able to do these
00:01:47.790 --> 00:01:54.590
sort of, I guess, a way to look out for other
00:01:54.590 --> 00:01:59.189
people through information. But also what does
00:01:59.189 --> 00:02:02.829
this mean for concerns around data? We've just
00:02:02.829 --> 00:02:05.829
seen all of the data got hacked over the weekend.
00:02:06.290 --> 00:02:08.650
And what does this mean about dating culture
00:02:08.650 --> 00:02:11.719
when we sort of are popping in? to do reviews
00:02:11.719 --> 00:02:16.819
as we're going along. Greg, I think, you know,
00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:19.340
as an OBS advisor, I feel like you can have a
00:02:19.340 --> 00:02:22.439
great take on this. I had a feeling you might
00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:25.419
come to me first on this one. Look, this this
00:02:25.419 --> 00:02:28.789
company will be dead within the next year. It's
00:02:28.789 --> 00:02:33.050
just that simple. There's no longevity in organizations
00:02:33.050 --> 00:02:36.590
that capitalize on gossip behavior and toxicity.
00:02:37.770 --> 00:02:41.189
There are plenty of groups on Facebook and on
00:02:41.189 --> 00:02:43.349
forums online where people can go get together
00:02:43.349 --> 00:02:46.370
and bond over their toxic behavior and criticizing
00:02:46.370 --> 00:02:49.810
human beings. Twitter exists pretty much fundamentally
00:02:49.810 --> 00:02:54.289
for that entire purpose. It is not a robust business
00:02:54.289 --> 00:02:57.469
model. It's not one that's built on the best
00:02:57.469 --> 00:02:59.590
of what humanity has to offer, and for that exact
00:02:59.590 --> 00:03:03.050
reason it's destined to fail. Like most other
00:03:03.050 --> 00:03:04.689
apps that have tried to capitalize on similar
00:03:04.689 --> 00:03:07.240
behavior in the past, it's not. interested in
00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:10.500
any way in facilitating romance between people,
00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:13.740
in creating better connections, its only interest
00:03:13.740 --> 00:03:16.080
is in fostering hatred between individuals. So
00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:20.180
it has no place in the future of the app infrastructure.
00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:23.639
And, you know, I think to go, you know, just
00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:26.139
slightly one step further, I mean, I think the
00:03:26.139 --> 00:03:28.800
leaks that have basically pared that out, because
00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:30.979
it's just proven the point of where everyone's
00:03:30.979 --> 00:03:33.039
concern was initially with this anyway, because
00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:35.889
everyone can see exactly black and white. exactly
00:03:35.889 --> 00:03:38.330
what everyone's been saying, and who's been saying
00:03:38.330 --> 00:03:42.110
it. So yeah, to be honest, that's my only take
00:03:42.110 --> 00:03:44.590
on it. It might not be particularly innovative
00:03:44.590 --> 00:03:47.310
or mind blowing, but it is what it is. And people
00:03:47.310 --> 00:03:49.050
are always going to make crappy apps to try and
00:03:49.050 --> 00:03:52.750
make a few quid on the backs of putting other
00:03:52.750 --> 00:03:54.750
people down. That's just the industry we're in,
00:03:54.750 --> 00:03:56.629
unfortunately. And like you said, Twitter does
00:03:56.629 --> 00:04:01.990
already exist and fills a lot of that role. But
00:04:01.990 --> 00:04:07.280
at least it's public. So at least I think morally
00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:11.599
it's on a higher standing. That's the first time
00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:14.819
I've ever heard anyone say that sentence. It
00:04:14.819 --> 00:04:19.100
is. Morally speaking, Twitter is, I mean, Twitter,
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I think fits, I mean, not to get too diverted,
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but it absolutely fits on with the public square
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ethos, which is, you know, say things publicly
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and, and, you know, risk offending people and
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also risk being offended. I mean, that, that
00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:31.720
is the point of public discourse is you can say
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something and people absolutely have the right
00:04:32.980 --> 00:04:35.139
to disagree and then, and then make their counterclaim
00:04:35.139 --> 00:04:37.720
back to you. And you have, you have to accept
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that that is the responsibility. that you take
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when you say something publicly. And that's the
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point. If you hide people behind an app and give
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them this false sense of security, of which,
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by the way, doesn't exist in technology in a
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way, then you're just encouraging people to be
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the worst of themselves. And so that's not a
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great way to educate people on how to engage
00:04:58.779 --> 00:05:01.019
in public discourse, in my opinion. Well, I like
00:05:01.019 --> 00:05:05.949
the name. I mean, it seems accurate. It's a one
00:05:05.949 --> 00:05:08.649
positive one positive. Yeah, yeah. I could be
00:05:08.649 --> 00:05:11.089
forgiven a small pun, you know, it's like apropos.
00:05:13.269 --> 00:05:18.129
Yeah, I mean, I, I've I'm newly single and using
00:05:18.129 --> 00:05:20.129
dating apps for the first time. So I'm like,
00:05:20.149 --> 00:05:22.389
Oh, shit. I mean, it's just kind of scary, right?
00:05:22.529 --> 00:05:25.370
I mean, it's like vigilante justice with the
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user experience in some ways. So I think it does
00:05:27.930 --> 00:05:31.850
raise a lot of questions about privacy and consent
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and digital permanence. I mean, these things
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never go away, right? But I do think it offers
00:05:36.870 --> 00:05:41.829
some interesting cultural signals, like, you
00:05:41.829 --> 00:05:45.089
know, there's women have a desire for accountability
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and dating and the traditional safety structures
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that are in place are not providing it. So I
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don't think that that should be ignored. But
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I kind of agree that the negative is going to
00:05:56.290 --> 00:05:58.389
outweigh the positive here. And there's going
00:05:58.389 --> 00:06:01.540
to be a lot of unintended consequences. I hope
00:06:01.540 --> 00:06:05.899
I don't end up on it. Or maybe I get fired. Whatever
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it is. Based on what I've just said today, I
00:06:08.819 --> 00:06:10.720
know for a fact I'm probably going to be an end
00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:12.800
up on it even though I'm not even though I'm
00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:14.100
married and I have kids. You know what I mean?
00:06:14.300 --> 00:06:18.360
But yeah, he's the thing. I don't care. I don't
00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:21.000
care. Might be your everyone's Coldplay moment,
00:06:21.259 --> 00:06:25.540
you know, like, right. What a cultural moment
00:06:25.540 --> 00:06:30.879
that was. Yeah, yeah. The whole data protection
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aspect of it ties in really nicely to something
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that happened recently in the UK with the online
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safety act coming into fruition. You can either
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upload a photo of your driver's license or use
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some weird AI fingamajiggy to prove that you're
00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:47.660
ready to go on some nefarious sites, but also
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other sites are getting caught on that same block
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or two that aren't even necessarily just porn.
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that I find fascinating about the tea situation
00:06:56.120 --> 00:06:57.779
that ties into that is that they were using the
00:06:57.779 --> 00:06:59.899
exact same tech that the UK government is in
00:06:59.899 --> 00:07:02.779
terms of like, you just turn your webcam on and
00:07:02.779 --> 00:07:05.860
then you, you know, hold your face up to it,
00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:07.439
turn left to right to technically prove that
00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:09.899
you're a human and that's it. And then, you know,
00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:11.379
the number one thing that people were saying
00:07:11.379 --> 00:07:13.480
is it's not a matter of if data is going to leak,
00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:16.240
but when. And for the fact that it happened with
00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:22.139
a company the exact same week it launched. is
00:07:22.139 --> 00:07:24.720
just hilarious to me. So it's just what's gonna
00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:27.300
happen next, you know? Yeah, I mean, just to
00:07:27.300 --> 00:07:29.240
jump in on that, like, I think... There's a couple
00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:31.079
of things there. I mean, first off, to kind of
00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:33.319
defend that company somewhat, even though I just
00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:35.779
absolutely blast them a minute ago, like they
00:07:35.779 --> 00:07:37.860
didn't expect to go viral and get the attention
00:07:37.860 --> 00:07:39.620
that they did. They did. And then therefore they
00:07:39.620 --> 00:07:43.560
became the, you know, the target of hackers to
00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:45.759
expose that data. But, you know, no one could
00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:47.600
have really prepared in that organization for
00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:50.379
the level of virality. And, you know, just knowing
00:07:50.379 --> 00:07:53.319
what we probably all know about startups is that
00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:55.410
you don't you know, you build things as you go.
00:07:55.470 --> 00:07:57.250
And so you wouldn't have built that level of
00:07:57.250 --> 00:07:58.970
infrastructure to, you know, for cybersecurity
00:07:58.970 --> 00:08:01.670
purposes that early on, you know, the budget
00:08:01.670 --> 00:08:03.370
would have been allocated for that later and
00:08:03.370 --> 00:08:05.769
so on. So, you know, to give some credit where,
00:08:05.769 --> 00:08:07.990
you know, it's kind of due or maybe not due is,
00:08:07.990 --> 00:08:10.110
you know, it's not entirely their fault that
00:08:10.110 --> 00:08:11.889
they didn't really see that coming. Maybe they
00:08:11.889 --> 00:08:13.470
should have done, you could maybe put some accountability
00:08:13.470 --> 00:08:16.649
there. But then in terms of like the the new
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acts coming into force in the UK, I mean, I personally
00:08:20.170 --> 00:08:23.180
think it's actually a pretty good move to be
00:08:23.180 --> 00:08:25.620
moving in that direction somewhat. I mean, again,
00:08:25.779 --> 00:08:28.389
you can make that sort of... somewhat moot point
00:08:28.389 --> 00:08:30.730
of, yeah, but it's easy to get around. You can
00:08:30.730 --> 00:08:32.289
say that about literally anything. I mean, you
00:08:32.289 --> 00:08:35.070
know, needing an ID to go and buy alcohol, you
00:08:35.070 --> 00:08:37.529
know, the minimum age to have sexual intercourse
00:08:37.529 --> 00:08:39.110
or buy cigarettes. People are always going to
00:08:39.110 --> 00:08:41.009
find ways to get around things. That doesn't
00:08:41.009 --> 00:08:43.269
mean you shouldn't try and do something in order
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to protect people. The reality is that the internet
00:08:45.750 --> 00:08:48.149
has, you know, an enormous amount of content
00:08:48.149 --> 00:08:50.009
on it that absolutely isn't appropriate for a
00:08:50.009 --> 00:08:52.129
lot of people at certain ages. And up till literally
00:08:52.129 --> 00:08:54.049
this point, at least in the UK, there's been
00:08:54.049 --> 00:08:56.029
very little, if any, attempts to ensure that
00:08:56.029 --> 00:08:58.210
we're doing something to prevent people from
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accessing that. So something is better than nothing,
00:09:01.250 --> 00:09:03.870
and it is headed in the right direction. Is it
00:09:03.870 --> 00:09:06.610
being mishandled in some ways? Yes. Is it being
00:09:06.610 --> 00:09:09.490
maybe applied to certain websites or content
00:09:09.490 --> 00:09:11.769
that shouldn't do? Yes. That is just the nature
00:09:11.769 --> 00:09:14.190
of implementing a new process. It's messy, and
00:09:14.190 --> 00:09:18.350
it takes time to even out over time. But it will,
00:09:18.750 --> 00:09:20.330
I'm sure. It will get more robust over time.
