Systems for Learning Kubernetes with Josh Duffney

Chad (00:00:01):
Hey, everybody. This is the Kube Skills Podcast episode one, where we are talking with Joshua Duffy about systems for learning Kubernetes. And so what we're trying to accomplish here, or what the idea behind this podcast is, you know, developing a mental model for working with complex topics such as Kubernetes and Josh has developed these systems over time and is most recently, recently working on a project called Everything I Know About Go, uh, which will get into and make a correlation to learning, learning go, and then learning Kubernetes. I think there's a lot of, uh, crosstalk there that we can, we can glean and use for our own personal knowledge systems. Uh, Josh has this book called How to Write Smart Notes in Obsidian, which is super useful for writing, uh, and capturing notes, but also in terms of, uh, from an engineering perspective. And I think this is really important to, uh, to, to develop your knowledge, to develop your memory right, and be able to, uh, really grasp and, and really learn these complex topics. And Kubernetes is a, a very complex topic, and so hopefully you can glean something from this and, uh, and use it for your own, for your own good and, and help you learn Kubernetes, uh, faster and, and more complete. So here it is.

Chad (00:01:35):
Welcome to the Kube Skills podcast. My name is Chad Crowell. I'm a part of a group of early adopters, trailblazers, pioneers, and strategists you've probably never heard of. We don't rely on others to create our future. This is our life. We build it however we want. We don't settle for a video library or a stack of manuals. We learn by doing. These are our stories. We are cube skiers.

Chad (00:02:06):
Uh, we're joined by Josh Duffy today. Uh, he's a senior cloud advocate at Microsoft, author, writer, speaker. Uh, check out his books at josh duffy dot gum road.com. Uh, so author, he's author, author of the book, um, one of my favorite books, uh, becoming Ansible or Become Ansible, sorry. Okay. And How to Take Smart Notes in Obsidian. I've certainly l learned a lot from him. Um, using obsidian for taking notes as a, as an engineer, which is pretty cool. Um, check out his posts at, uh, duffy.io/posts. And, uh, he's written articles on detaching from distraction Attention Matters more than time, the digital Declutter. And my favorite note taking became a full-time job, so I stopped <laugh> and, uh, you certainly kind of get that vibe by, by reading your post. So I appreciated that one as kind of a alternative. Um, he also shares his learnings on his YouTube channel, so youtube.com/ Joshua Duffy. And, uh, the thing about, um, these videos, uh, the thing that I like about it is that you insert a little bit of storytelling. There's a storytelling aspect to your, uh, videos, which kind of draws you in, right. Which I really appreciate. Um, and, uh, couldn't, couldn't help but mention his GitHub page and my favorite GitHub repo that he, that he has, which is called Everything I Know About Go. Yeah. Mr. Mr. Josh Duffy, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining. So good to have you.

Josh (00:03:42):
Oh, pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Chad (00:03:45):
Yeah. So, um, like I said, I'm a big fan and, uh, I've been following you for a few years now and, uh, you know, uh, got the book Become Ansible Back, you know, shortly after it came out. And, uh, appreciate your, your, your way of explaining things, your way of kind of, uh, walking people through how to, uh, take some of these complex, complex things like Ansible, like, like learning go, like, uh, you know, um, you know, taking notes and, and learning and, you know, we, we have this, um, you know, you're a fan of building the second Brain. So we have this, the thing we, we refer to as, you know, capture, organized, distill and express, uh, which is our, our kind of way of, uh, of note taking and kind of the, uh, personal knowledge management. So, um, my question to you is, you know, how did this all start for you? I know that, you know, you attribute a lot of your, um, I guess findings or, or maybe you just referenced the, the book taking smart notes. Um, so, so where did it all begin for you, and could you tell us a little bit more about, um, kind of how that all started?

Josh (00:04:57):
Uh, um, are you meaning the, the per the personal knowledge management journey, or, yeah, sure. So, um, that all kind of started, cause I had, I had switched disciplines. So I had left Stack Overflow as an sre, which I had worked for, for like seven years in the DevOps space and became a technical writer, um, for te originally Terraform and Ansible given my expertise in that area, and then switched over to go. But I was also trying to write my first non-fiction book at the same time. And so I was in this new discipline, uh, and I was trying to write a book at the same time. And so I was just like completely overwhelmed with information and I had no way to organize it. And so I kind of latched onto, it's interesting, some of the best books that I have, like I'll have been recommended five years prior, a couple of years prior, and then I'll finally pick them up and it's a good thing I delayed it.

Josh (00:05:43):
Um, I kind of kicked myself that I didn't pick it up sooner, but anyway, smart Notes came up, uh, in kind of that, it came up just, I stumbled upon it on Twitter or something, or maybe it was recommended on, on Amazon, and it promised a system, right? Cause I have an engineering background, so it promised a system for my writing. Uh, and so I dove like headfirst into that and spent probably way too many cycles trying to like engineer a perfect system in that, which we can get it into later. Why. That's kind of why you can over-engineer those things and it'll be more of a problem. But really the, the crux of it was I was just like suffering from, uh, so much information overload, and I felt like I needed to build some personal systems for myself to alleviate that. I've been doing that for years and years in operations work where you build monitoring systems or you build these different ways to skill web servers and stuff to combat, uh, overload, right? Uh, and so like I found my own brain needed some kind of a system to prevent overload, and that's kind of where, that was kind of the motivation behind, uh, the research spike into this system building.

Chad (00:06:51):
Yeah. Interesting. Um, so what are one of the things that, uh, kept me tuning back to your YouTube, YouTube channel and really interested me about how you, how you took some of these, um, you know, some of the aspects from the book and some of the aspects of, uh, you know, just personal knowledge management in general and how you applied that from an engineering perspective. Um, and, you know, you, um, I I think you call it the kind of engineer's day book or, um, you know, way of, of kind of, you know, laying out the day so that you are, you're, you're capturing things in real time and you know, this process of taking a fleeting note and converting that to a more permanent note. So I guess, um, you know, through that, how, how have you kind of filtered it down or, or cied some of the, uh, some of the, you know, general more general personal knowledge management aspects and, and, um, things from the book and, and how, how have you kind of, you know, distilled that down to, you know, how to, how to use this system for engineering specifically?

Josh (00:08:11):
Uh, good question. So my current, my system, it keeps, keeps evolving, but it's, it's really a combination. It's an in integration of a bunch of different things. So there's the smart nose aspect to it, um, which is really around knowledge building. I, that's where I think about it, because if you look at it, it's about, if you look at my videos on, on Smart notes in particular, it's really around building knowledge blocks and connecting knowledge. And eventually what will happen, especially in a technical discipline, discipline is you will, you will end up with something very much like the outline of a book, which is the whole point of the Smart Notes methodology is you are starting to build this domain of knowledge, and then it, it kind of like all of a sudden you could write a book. It's kind of like the promise of that system, and it does work to a degree.

Josh (00:08:51):
Um, but I, I realized that I needed to use that sparingly because not everything could be translated into building knowledge framework. At least not for me, it wasn't scalable for me. Uh, but then there's other aspects of like just managing your day. So the, the Engineer's Day book is actually an idea that I got from the second edition of the Pragmatic Programmer. Uh, and that's very much just like an old mechanical or electrical engineer's notebook where they have kind of just things that they're jotting down in notes. And it's, it's mainly a scratchpad, right? That lets you kind of leverage the zy ionic effect. So if you look at anything with like knowledge management or task management, the Zy ionic effect is gonna be mentioned. Um, and in a nutshell, that effect is, we remember more of what we didn't finish than what we completed.

Josh (00:09:34):
So like the infamous study, there is a waiter, um, the psychologist I believe that came up with this or discovered it, they were at a large table and while they were, um, being seated and waited on, the waiter could remember all their names, it was a big group, but as soon as they left, he had forgotten all of it cuz that task had been completed. And so you can use those, those scratch bases or the engineer Daybook, uh, as a way to kind of offload that from your mind. So you can kind of leave the day and refresh and shut down, which is part of Cal Newport shutdown ritual. Uh, and so that's kind of another facet. And then there's like, how do I structure my day in the most optimal way where I'm getting important stuff done, but I'm also not being, uh, irresponsible in leaving people hanging or letting things drop.

Josh (00:10:18):
And so that's where the time blocking kind of fits in. And so my system, uh, and what I've been doing is trying to find a tool that lets me, uh, incorporate and integrate all these different things into kind of one thing. And lately it's been, uh, loge has been the thing that I've stuck to the longest, but I've used obsidian, I've used, uh, many other tools. So it's really been this constant exploration of these different tools that help me manage, uh, my time and energy and, and knowledge and trying to put them into a system that I can maintain through software.

Chad (00:10:47):
Yeah, that's interesting. Um, I personally use Loge for the, the engineer's Daybook and the day-to-day. And then I find that, you know, when I have, um, when I, when I have those, you know, at the end, at the end of the day I have my shutdown routine, I, I find that it's, there's something about converting that to obsidian into a kind of a intermediary <laugh> permanent note. So I'll take my notes during the day, convert them to obsidian, uh, which is kind of my first process of distilling. And then, uh, once I get it in obsidian, I will then further distill it and put it into my slip box.

Chad (00:11:36):
So, um, so yeah, I, I feel like that separation, I guess, um, between, you know, a lot of people say like, why, why don't you just use one <laugh>, one for the mall <laugh>? I feel like those different ones, uh, using all of those, uh, separately in my mind, I guess it's like, um, it's like taking, you know, file and, and moving it from one folder to the other, that that kind of, uh, that act for some reason for me is like very satisfying, you know? And mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, coming from engineering background and, and being an engineer, um, you know, I, I, my mind very much works in kind of that folder hierarchy, right? Where you have, um, and, and this may be, may go back to how I used to take notes, um, you know, four or five years ago where I would just have a, a file that at the top of the file, um, or the file name was the, the date.

Chad (00:12:38):
So it would be like 20 22, 12 0 2 or something like that. And, and I would just write all my notes from the day <laugh>. And then the problem that I found with that is, you know, it, it would be somewhat searchable, but not really. And then, um, also what I wanted to ask you about was, you know, a lot of times when you, when you write things down as a fleeting note, you know, you're at a conference writing, writing the notes down from the speaker, you're, you're, you know, reading a book, trying to, uh, take notes on the book. So, um, in, in, in going back and kind of trying to, uh, reference that again without having that context, you know, I find it really hard to, um, go back to that note and, and say, okay, what was I really talking about? You know, I sometimes on my note, don't, notes don't make sense. So have you come across that before, uh, what, what is your process for, I guess, um, adding context to fleeting notes and then, you know, making them permanent so that you go back to 'em in like a year or two years and they still have rel relevance to you?

Josh (00:13:53):
That's, that's a good question. Um, and I'll kind of speak to like, where I'm currently at. So I think we all, you know, to use the, the engineering analogy and anyone that's been in operations, there's the dev, there's the, the test, and that moves up to production. And like, you can kind of use that mental model as a way to think about these different spaces. So we all, we all need a dev space. We all need this space where we can dump ideas, just like if we were to open up a, you know, a script file and start writing some code, um, and it's just saved on disk. It's not in gid, it's not checked anywhere, um, because we want that friction to be really, really light. And so you wanna have some kind of a system. It can be a pocket notebook, it could be a bullet journal.

Josh (00:14:28):
For me it's loge because it gives me that daily journal every time, and I can use tags and stuff, so to switch and search. And so we all need that dev development environment. And then where I've been trying to refine that next step, so I've gone through pretty much any, every tool in the PMM space, um, for that next step, which is the reference system. Uh, and so if you look at the original Smart Notes book and their website and tools, they have kind of, uh, recommendation of three tools. They have your reference system, your editor, and your slip box. And those are three separate things. Um, for a lot of us, I think the difference between a reference system of the slip box is overkill because a lot of the reference system and that context is, um, for citation and stuff like that, which we don't have as much reason for.

Josh (00:15:10):
And so you can kind of consolidate the two, and that actually goes up to the, the repository that you threw out there. So I had all these notes, um, probably over six or eight months stuck in Loge and obsidian about Go. And I was like, these are like really refined good notes that I've taken from a variety of sources, and they're just sitting here, you know, only benefiting me, um, in, in the repo. And so like that expression, I think is the last part of the building, the second brain. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and also the Fineman technique, right, is to share it. And so what I've been doing over that time is finding a way to bring those notes to light, uh, in a way that is useful. And so that repository is kind of my attempt to find a way, at least with technical notes to do that.

Josh (00:15:51):
And so you'll see there's a folder for web development, which has a bunch of stuff around templating and creating sessions. And I've been doing a lot of Elite Code lately with Go and trying to learn algorithms and data structures to fill in some knowledge gaps. And so you'll see a folder for that. Um, but the difference is there is that's all working code. Um, so I'm, I'm spending more time in, um, using or following the principle of Directness, which is a, from the Ultra Scott Young's Ultra Learning book. So you wanna do the thing and learn inside the context in which you're gonna apply it. And so for me, that might be a coding interview, and so I should probably, lead code is a good example of that. Um, and then any kind of like notes to give context to that are left as comments in the code.

Josh (00:16:33):
Um, and so that's where I've been about it. But I've, I've shuffled, I've used RIN to create nice hierarchy structures that Link Cross, um, but I ultimately don't publish those for whatever reason. And so I've kind of moved more towards, um, trying to make my reference system be public GitHub repositories, at least for, for code, or it's some kind of other public artifact. Like, uh, I've started, I haven't released any yet, but I've started recording YouTube videos on data structures and algorithms, uh, in go. And so that'll kind of be that reference artifact is that published, bringing full circle and publishing that. Um, so I can reference it, but also get the wrap and expressing that or making that, um, completing that cycle, so to speak, of the knowledge.

Chad (00:17:15):
Yeah, it's a good point. Um, I do wanna kind of relate your, everything I know about Go repo to, um, you know, Kubernetes and, and what we, we all came here to hear about. But first, I, I really wanna ask, um, on, on the topic of expression, you know, I think for me at least e expressing in terms of, you know, ma you know, writing a, a, a permanent note or writing something that will, um, be, be relatable and, uh, will allow others to be, to, to understand what I'm saying and, um, and to, uh, and to share that information in a way, uh, that's, that's kind of applicable for, uh, you know, I'm, I'm obviously talking about, you know, the cube skills community and trying to, you know, uh, have everyone learn Kubernetes and, and, you know, put out express knowledge that's, uh, applicable to a lot of different people.

Chad (00:18:23):
And, and so I have, I've realized through that process that it's, um, it, it's really, uh, when, when it comes down to ex expressing for, for others and putting that information out there to the public, and, you know, this goes along with like, making YouTube videos and, and, um, you know, authoring a book and all of those things. So, uh, my question to you is, in your expression, uh, just, just taking out that expression part of code, um, you know, how have you, uh, have you, have you realized that kind of, you know, making this information available to the public? You know, you, you have a lot of YouTube videos on a YouTube channel that, that speak about this, but, um, you know, uh, do you notice that your expression is, uh, gets much better over time if you're, if you're kind of, you know, going live on a video or if you're, if you're, you're putting this out into the world and, and people are, uh, viewing it and, and do you have any thoughts on that?

Josh (00:19:31):
Y yeah, so definitely, you know, the quality of her quantity, um, you'll get better. And the, the reason I think it's kind of a personal thing too. So like, I don't think that there's anything wrong If you wanna build like a really elaborate personal knowledge base, and it's for you and you navigate and it's your personal Google, uh, I've certainly done that. Um, but for me, there was just kind of like, I felt like I was leaving all these things incomplete by not sharing them. And I think that's just kind of a personality trait that I have. Um, but what comes with that is the opportunity for feedback. So some of the, uh, the cracking the code interview stuff that I did, I <laugh> I put it up on Reddit, so I, you know, you immediately know that you're just gonna get destroyed. Yeah. <laugh>, because I'm by no means like a super awesome software engineer or something like that.

Josh (00:20:09):
And so my, my solution was pretty rudimentary, right? And so it just got torn to shreds by a lot of really good software engineers, but I learned a lot. Um, so there's a little, there's an element of vulnerability that you have to accept when you, uh, go to that final stage, but it also gives you a tremendous opportunity, uh, both for feedback but also for impact. So if I go way back before even my note taking journey, like a lot of the stuff on DPH need io, it's really just career. Some of it's a lot of PowerShell stuff, but then it kind of moved into like just career journey type stories, um, that I've had a lot of fantastic feedback and people have gotten a lot of value from those posts. And so had I not taken the time to like fully distill that thought and to share it in some kind of a, um, then I wouldn't have gotten that opportunity to see that re like the impact that that's had.

Josh (00:20:52):
Uh, but it does give you the reps, right? So whatever medium. And that's why I've, you mentioned like a bunch of different things that I've done over the last 18 months. Like I've, I've written books, I've done YouTube videos, I've done video courses, I've done PCI courses, I've done blog posts, I've done articles, I've done essays. And so like, I'm still very much in influx of like, trying to find what medium it is that I most enjoy, that I would wanna kind of stick with and refine. Uh, but amongst all the creation or content production, I've been able to k refine my writing skills and video editing skills to at least an amateur level. Um, and so you kind of get the benefit of that too, is refining those skills and each one of those mediums, you're learning to be a better communicator. So there are sub-skills that you learn, um, through the expression, I think that are, that are super valuable.

Chad (00:21:37):
Yeah. On that, um, on the topic of, you know, being vulnerable, right? I, I always encourage people to, you know, create their first repo, put it out there in the world. And, um, and, and like you said, it's, it's very important for getting feedback and, and learning and growing. Uh, but, but still a lot of people are still hesitant. Um, I guess, do you have any tips for those people who are, are, are still kind of on the fence about putting themselves out there, being vulnerable and, uh, you know, and, and anything like that?

Josh (00:22:16):
I would say try to find a medium. So like, if, if you don't wanna be on camera, cuz that's the most nerve-wracking that I would start with, like, warm yourself up to it. So it might be a blog post or just to get a repo or a gist or whatever it is where you're trying to create that public apprentice presence or a tweet or a LinkedIn post where you don't have to be on camera. I would say like, writing's probably the more comfortable medium, even if you're not really good at it. Um, or just like a post on different, like un Reddit or those different platforms where there's lower friction and, and stuff like that is where I would start. And then you can kind of push yourself a little bit beyond your comfort zone. And I wouldn't go from zero to 60 and be like, I'm gonna start a live stream. <laugh>

Josh (00:22:50):
Live streams make me like super nervous and something that I've avoided doing on my own channel for, for a long time, probably too long. Um, but yeah, so I would say start with something that's moderately discomfort or you know, that you find is comforting, um, and then kind of push yourself through to the different ones and leave yourself up to experimentation and don't like lock yourself into like, oh, I did one blog post and I'll get a blog for the rest of my career. You know, give yourself the latitude to experience, uh, to experience different mediums and creation of co different content creation.

Chad (00:23:21):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Um, some people are better at, you know, better at on-screen stuff. Some, some people are better at writing, some people are betting better at just audio. Um, yeah, really explore a little bit, I think was the takeaway there. And also, you know, I think, uh, you mentioned PowerShell, you've been a, a PowerShell community member and a part of that, uh, group for a while. Um, can you speak to, you know, some of the, some of the benefits of like joining a group, like the PowerShell group, uh, or Cube Skills group, or, you know, any small community that, um, maybe alleviates some of those, those fears that you have, um, allows you to ask questions in a safe space and allows you to really, um, explore, um, you know, through learning with, you know, learning with friends in a community?

Josh (00:24:20):
I, I, I always joked that I grew up in the PowerShell community cuz I was, you know, a couple years into my career in tech and I joined and then, you know, like they had all the big headers, like Richard sit away, Don Jones and, uh, and Jeff Hicks, who's still, still around doing good stuff in the PowerShell community mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and then eventually, like I came like up into those brackets, not nearly as, as close to those. I didn't write any of the fantastic month of lunches books or anything like that. Um, but the biggest benefit there is like, you just get, um, your rate of learning skyrockets because you're constantly surrounded by people, um, that one willing to help you and two, know more than you. And so that was the biggest boom that I got, is like, you just, you're surrounded by people that are, that know more than you and that are willing to help you, and that's gonna be a, um, a catalyst for your learning.

Josh (00:25:08):
And then it also created a, a safe space for me to, to, to write different things and to create things and con and to contribute. So eventually I think a lot of people, this started for me back in like Spiceworks Community Days, but eventually if you join a community, you're gonna feel guilty when you just take, take, take, take, take, depending on your reciprocity style. Most people are matchers. Uh, and this is all context from a book by Adam Grant called Give and Take. So most people are matchers, some people are givers, very few people are takers. Uh, and if you join a community and you continually are receiving value, you're gonna be compelled to get back in some way. Um, and so that will kind of push you to contribute and to, to get in the game, so to speak, and to have some skin in the game.

Chad (00:25:50):
Yeah, that's a good point. You kind of learn through osmosis in a way, uh, just surrounding yourself with, with smarter people, that's, um, that's, yeah. Has an effect on you for sure. Um, so, uh, we have a couple questions about using obsidian and, um, I mean, from, you know, from my experience, I would, if you're new to Obsidian, or I guess if you're new, if you're new to personal Knowledge Management, and, uh, here I'll put up the the question. So what are your thoughts on obsidian? Is there a better choice possibly notion? You said that you've, you've tried the Gambit, right? So

Josh (00:26:31):
Do you,

Chad (00:26:32):
Do you have any particular, um, you know, advice for somebody who's, who's looking for a PKM app?

Josh (00:26:39):
Sure. So the first thing would be your familiarity with Markdown. So if you're like, markdown is the second nature to you, you, you're gonna gravitate towards the, the different like tools like Obsidian. Uh, the biggest difference for me in my view, obsidian versus Notion is Notion is a project management tool. So if you were wanting to build a wiki or you're trying to keep track of things and you're gonna have some visibility between team members and stuff like that, notion's really good to, to express and to contain knowledge around a project or a team like a team Wiki. Um, so very much like Jira Wood or not Jira, uh, confluence, um, would do for you. Um, that would be kind of the use case for Notion for me, it didn't work. I know a lot of people get like, elaborate dashboards and stuff, but if I'm gonna do that, I'd probably just use tr some kind of con board to keep, uh, track of project work. Uh, where obsidian is different is it's, um, it's a note-taking tool first. So it's, it's more based on the file structure and the links and the notes. Um, and so you're gonna be a lot, it's gonna be a lot easier to build a knowledge structure inside that tooling, um, than it is gonna be with, uh, notion.

Chad (00:27:42):
Cool. Um, yeah, I think, uh, I think as, um, as engineers, as a lot of us are in this community anyway, and, you know, um, we're, we're, we're kind of like thrown into things, learning on the fly, a lot of technical detail, um, a lot of, uh, you know, code snippets and, you know, <laugh> model names, serial numbers, you know, you name it. So I think, uh, for me, uh, you know, obsidian has been, has been really great. Uh, like I said, I use the combination of, uh, Locke and, and obsidian, but obsidian has been great for, um, for, for me, I, I've always used markdown and, and kind of, um, so that was kind of natural for me to, to make that transition. And then, um, like I said before, creating these kind of, um, these, these systems, um, that in my mind are a lot like a folder hierarchy.

Chad (00:28:46):
And, um, a actually ha I haven't perfected the process. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie, <laugh>, um, I mean, I'm still, it's an, it's a, it's a, it's a day-to-day, you know, ongoing thing where it's constantly trying to get better at, at writing notes. And, you know, speaking of being, being vulnerable, um, I'm gonna share my screen and try not to, to, uh, judge me too much on, uh, what my, uh, Kubernetes note-taking system looks like. But, uh, let's, let's try this and see, I'm gonna, um, share my screen here. All right, so this is obsidian and you know, I have on the left hand, on the left hand side here, I have all of my <laugh>, um, you know, at, at the top I have what I hoped someday to be my complete slip box. And then, you know, these are all of my <laugh>, you know, semi-permanent notes from Loge and, uh, other places. So I, you know, I, you know, to me it makes sense. It's kind of like, you know, those, those people who have a messy room, it's like, but I know where everything is, so I don't have a, I don't have an issue. And so, you know, as I scroll through this document, you could see that it's so enormously kind of bothersome long. Um, so Josh, do you have any tips for me who's, who's a kind of a, a teenager who has a messy <laugh> messy room here trying to, trying to clean up their taking system?

Josh (00:30:21):
Um, the fir so the, the most useful framework that I'd recommend anybody start with really is Tiago four two s building a Second Brain. Uh, so that's a fantastic book. And the, the reason I recommend that is because unlike Smart Notes, it's not necessarily knowledge first, like bottom up. So they say bottom up knowledge where you're kind of gathering knowledge and then eventually an structure emerges. A lot of us, uh, especially people that are in engineering roles, don't operate that way. Um, that's more academic thinking, where we operate as Project First or Project Centric, and that's where Building a Second Brain is fully focused on. So the Building a Second Marine uses the para method and para is, um, project area, um, resource or reference, and then archive is what that acronym stands for. And so the very first folder that you have is your project.

Josh (00:31:06):
And it makes it easy because in there, there's pro there were probably books that you're reading or there were projects that you were on that those notes came from and were generated from. Uh, and so you could create a folder inside projects that says, you know, um, whatever Kubernetes in action or whatever the book may be or whatever Kubernetes project, and it could even be a Jira card number. And then you start to throw your notes in there. Um, and then as that project wraps up, you could either move that into, maybe you're a Kubernetes operator and that would be an area. And so you would move the relevant notes there and kind of organize them, um, and then you could distill them. So instead of having a long list of all those things that you had in there, you would probably like whatever could fit on a screen.

Josh (00:31:45):
Like one screen, like, like an index card is the mental model I always have. It's kind of where you wanna limit one particular note that can then be combined and, and built, um, into a different, different hierarchy or what have you. So that way you could either search for them by name or you could search for them by the link, uh, and then they build together. And that's what I, there's many different names for it. There's a distilled note, there's an atomic note. But some way to have, like this note contains a specific unit of knowledge that I can either search for or combine with others. You know, like if I were to use a Go example, like a Viora function would be an example of a note that would be probably underneath the functions folder or something in reference, right? Eventually. But I probably would've stumbled upon that when I was doing Elite Code Problem and creating a link list.

Josh (00:32:29):
And so this is just how you can capture and organized knowledge. But the building, the Second Brain Para method is the best framework, um, that I've come across for most people in engineering roles to use because it, it creates a project first approach where you don't have to worry about the structure so much. You kind of go about your day, you complete projects, and then at the end of the day you have knowledge that's contained in notes that you can then, um, progress for building knowledge structures and capturing. Um, so that's where I'd recommend. Um, but I've been in your ex exact spot and what I typically do is set everything on fire and start over. But yeah, that hasn't been the best thing. Um, cuz I usually go back and find some things that are useful and pull 'em into the new system. But

Chad (00:33:10):
Yeah. Which, which leads me to the, uh, the reason why I like that that article, you know, note taking became a full-time job, so I stopped. So, um, in that, you know, kind of, you know, you described that very process of, you know, making your full-time job constantly going back and refining some of these systems that you've built. I guess what was the, what was the breaking point for you and, and when did you realize like, oh my God, I'm spending like most of my day <laugh>, you know, refining these systems. Uh, what what was the breaking point? Uh,

Josh (00:33:49):
When I stopped creating things, right? So when, when I ran out of energy to create things was the big, uh, indicator for me. Cause I always like to carry that to completion. It was starting to really weigh on me. I was like, I'm spending all this time building these elaborate notes and redoing the structure and moving them around constantly. And I create this like, you know, like I had probably a, a Go Fundamentals book essentially mapped out in Obsidian and Loge, but I didn't have a Go Fundamentals book published, and I didn't, nor did I have the energy to take those notes and convert them to a resource. And so they just started to lose their value because, um, I learned that most of the value in the note taking came from taking the note and not organizing the note. Um, and so then that's kind of what shifted in my mind, um, to where I kind of am now where it's more light, lightweight and I don't kind of obsess about the organization and, um, stuff like that. And I'm very choosy about the things, um, that I take that level of detailed notes on.

Chad (00:34:46):
Yeah, that's a good point. There is, yeah, there's so much effort that, you know, if you put too much effort in that, that kind of makes it not fun, right? <laugh>, you, you, you start to ruin <laugh> Yes. Ruin the fun. And, uh, you, you can't, uh, can't express, you can't, you know, get out what you need to get out. You can't, um, you know, do the fun part, which for me is kind of sharing it with others and being able to kind of collaborate and, and share and, and, and grow and

Josh (00:35:19):
Well, and engineers wanna build. And so like, it, it prevented me from building something. And that was kind of the biggest, uh, when I use Create build. Like they, they mean the same thing to me. So it wasn't, I wasn't creating or building anything. And so I just felt like very academic knowledge. Um, and so that's my Twitter banner now is a quote from Chris Pine Learned a program, which is, programming isn't about what, you know, it's about what you can figure out. And so I had accumulated this massive amount of knowledge about go in this particular instance, but I didn't know how, like I didn't know how to build anything with it or do anything with it. Like I understood all the language syntax and all that and the idioms and things, but I didn't, I wasn't putting the reps and practicing and directness of what it was that I was going to be doing with Go. And so then there was a little, I had academic knowledge, but not practical knowledge. Uh, and that kind of ate at me as, as an engineer <laugh>

Chad (00:36:07):
One thing. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it kind of stifles your productivity and, um, yeah, building is, um, is is what we do. And if you're, you're not actually <laugh>, you know, in a lot of ways for me it's like, it's, it's my job, right? I have to do it, you know, I, I can't, uh, uh, I can't, unfortunately can't sit there and, and research all day like a professor would or, or what like a, um, researcher would. So yeah, you have to make that kind of cut off there. So that's, so that's good. And, um, that's a good kind of segue into talking about, uh, you know, everything I know about Go and everything <laugh> or everything you know about Go and, uh, and, and relating that to Kubernetes. So, you know, this is finally getting into, uh, what, what everyone came here to, to learn about, which is taking those same, uh, aspects of, uh, you know, you talked about, you know, buildup, I guess of, of knowledge and of skills and of techniques and of, you know, tips and tricks, uh, that, that you learned, that helped you, that helped you learn go. Um, especially, so anything that, uh, sticks out in particular, uh, I, I, I know that go is a, you know, particularly a complex topic as is Kubernetes. So anything that you can, that you can glean from that process that maybe we can, uh, you know, cross streams here and and apply to Kubernetes. Absolutely.

Josh (00:37:42):
Well, let's, we'll start with the why. So we've kind of been a little bit, uh, mean against the notetaking because you can take it too far, but there's the other flip side, which is, um, it's very useful in learning. And so there's a lot of different things that I've learned to increase my learning that were a result of this, uh, note taking research spike for me. Um, because on the flip side of that, if like, if you're just reading through and you're not taking any notes or you're not actively reading or even doing any highlighting or underlying or anything like that, there's a lot of missed opportunity in that passive learning where you could turn into active and you can retain a lot more information, you can learn a lot more quickly. Um, and so I, I'll kinda like walk through like how I would approach a new domain of knowledge and how I probably take, um, notes a little bit differently now, but the first thing, um, is a quote from The Four Hour Chef by Tim Ferris, which is Material Matters.

Josh (00:38:27):
So the very first thing that you wanna do whenever you're approaching a topic like Kubernetes is to find like the best resources that you, you can, and that's usually through a peer review. So I'll find people such as Chad or other people that I know like Michael Lavan and be like, that are super good with Kubernetes. Like, what should I start with? Like, what is the best resource, the one that leveled you up? Because there are, there are different varieties or different levels of resources, and I like to find the ones that, that level that bring you from, uh, zero understanding to like complete understanding or like competency. Uh, and so you wanna vet those really high cuz you're gonna sync, you know, if it's a 500 page book, it's gonna be a couple months. If it's a 11 hour video course, it's gonna be at least a month.

Josh (00:39:12):
And so you're gonna sync a lot of time into this and you wanna vet the quality. So the first thing would be is to make sure that you do like a little meta learning research spike and find the highest quality resources you can and, and be willing to spend, uh, the money on those. And books are relatively cheap and video courses are, are not too expensive these days. Um, so that'd be number one. And then number two would be to change, like what I said prior, your learning from passive to active. And so you can do that in two different ways. So if I was to watch a video course, what I'll often do now is when there are key things or exercises, I will put questions in the notes of whatever tool that is, or in my, in loge or whatever note-taking tool. A lot of times, uh, the platform like Pluralsight or Udemy will have a note taking feature in there and it's fine to have those questions inside that platform cuz you won't, after you've gone through the exercises or taken the note on it or whatever, um, you won't need that question anymore.

Josh (00:40:07):
But there's a, there's a reason why I am not just capturing what the person said that was important. I'm asking a question that they might ask to get me to say that information so that way I have a better recall. So it's to test my recall of whatever that is. And that turning the video from just passively watching all the way through and then trying to do the exercise at the end, um, really helps, um, escalate my learning. And then if there's something like super valuable and that, like a design pattern or something, I would take it and put it into, um, would probably call the literature note, right? So I'd have a, a note, a markdown file that would be in the name of the course and I would just be putting in, um, like what I found super, super relevant or, um, interesting, um, inside that note and just capturing it all and usually categorizing it underneath the header of the chapter.

Josh (00:40:55):
So it's module two, it'd be a header of module two, and then the note would be under there, uh, for reading. There's a great, I, I think I have a post called How to Read Well on the Knowledge worker.blog that kind of synthesizes this, but I got it from a book called, um, how to Read a book. Um, and so there's different ways of reading, um, textbooks. So if you're a completely new to it, uh, I'll just kind of briefly walk through the levels of reading and then I'll kind of walk through how they mark up the book. And this again, is for the purposes of taking something that was passive, where you're just reading to turn to making it active. Um, so that way you retain more. So there's the elementary level of reading, which is just the ability to translate symbols into meaning.

Josh (00:41:39):
And then there's superficial reading and systematic reading, which is superficial is just you're reading through, uh, a book like much like you would in a textbook form, uh, but you're not stopping to pause for what you don't understand. You're just trying to get exposure to the ideas. Uh, and then there isn't, uh, analytical reading. Yep, great book right there, <laugh>, where you start to break apart, you, you deep dive into it, you're trying to find the keywords and terms and stuff. Um, and then there's sy topical reading, which is kind of reading multiple texts at once, but that's usually outta scope for what a lot of people do. You know, unless you're an expert in domain, you don't have kind of the context to do that type of reading. Um, but anyway, how you do the analytical reading and how you make mark up a book is you, you can circle or underline key terms and words, um, or paragraphs as you go through.

Josh (00:42:25):
Um, and then at the end of the chapter you go through review. I mean, that's kind of, kind of standard, but one thing that I took away from that was to create, um, a word list. So like at the end of each chapter, you kind of transfer all the keywords and terms and you make sure that you know them. And again, this is just to make like the reading more active and fun and make sure you do every single coding thing that you can or exercise in the books. Um, so that's kind of how it approach the learning. And then as you go through and you've kind of accumulated that knowledge, you wanna practice the, the principle of directness, which is to go and do the thing. So if they've got labs at the end of the book or if you're supposed to build an app all the way through, like make sure you're doing that.

Josh (00:43:06):
And then at the end, um, change it in some way, whether that be putting it in a public repo and you know, instead of six pods making it eight instead of like a, you know, a MySQL database, make it a non-relational BA database mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, like some kind of a change that makes you go through some of those, those actions, um, a little bit deeper and make it your own. But, um, you really have to interweave the practice in there, um, to make it stick. But that's kind of how I would approach gathering the knowledge. Um, and then after you've got those notes and those literature notes from several different sources, you could start to like reorganize them. Like, if I were to reteach this to someone else, like how would I convey this knowledge and how would I structure it? Um, and then I'll just kind of connect the knowledge and links it in your brain. But, um, that's kind of how I approach new demands of knowledge. Now, I don't go so far down, uh, the slip box, rabbit hole or notetaking, but, uh, I more so try to focus on making, um, the actual learning more active and engaging and then some kind of an artifact from that and building from that.

Chad (00:44:06):
Yeah. That creates like a, uh, imprint in your memory, right, when you, uh, become an active learner. And I think that's a really important thing to highlight here, is that when you, uh, either watch something or read something and you attach it to something that's, that's meaningful for you, you attach a, a feeling to it almost. I think that that in itself becomes more permanent in your memory. And I know that, that people have said about my courses before about my book is that, you know, when I, when I get done with the book or if I finish the video <laugh>, you know, I I barely remember what I, you know, when I, what I started learning or at the beginning of the course. Um, and so, you know, do you have any recommendations on, uh, what I hear about so, so often, which is, you know, um, you know, creating that, that mental imprint and being able to, like, if you're on, if the book is eight chapters, you're on chapter eight, how do you, how do you then create an imprint in of your memory of chapter one or chapter two to where you're, you're able to say, oh, I remember that from chapter one, that, that relates to this.

Chad (00:45:25):
I, I know it has a lot to do with, you know, good writing and, and being able to summarize well and, you know, create those labs, like you said. But I guess for your own, like if you have multiple sources, maybe how do you, uh, find those correlations, create that like mental map, you know what I mean?

Josh (00:45:43):
Um, a lot of it will come up and so if you're taking literature notes, you'll kind of stumble upon them, you'll be able to reference them. But a lot of, so a lot of times though, you just, you just have to get comfortable that you know, you, you know, the knowledge, right? And you kind of, sometimes you can forget and you should be okay with forgetting where that knowledge came from, because a lot of times, like we don't have any citation requirements when we're writing code. Um, you know, that's kind of in the import. And so having, I would say just get comfortable with knowing that you know it, right? Like, and so like the fact that you got to chapter eight and it depended on knowledge and chapter one proves that you knew it. Um, and so I, I would be more focused on what is it that you can build that captures that knowledge and understanding versus, um, being able to remember what that particular chapter did is taking that knowledge and then doing, doing something with it is more important.

Chad (00:46:34):
Yeah, that's a good point. So what I'd like to, um, glean from that is, and this is for the audience. So instead of, you know, repetitiously, uh, repetitiously writing down line after line, or, you know, trying to, you know, go back and, uh, memorize lines and, and, um, trying to kind of regurgitate, uh, certain items from, from a book or from a course, I think what what really helps me and, and what I've seen help others as well is going through that, that practical application of it. And that kind of goes back to our discussion about express right at you're, you're, you're teaching this back to either yourself or other people and you're, you're, you're con you're, you're setting it into a concrete area of your brain because it's an action that you're taking that's kind of, uh, cementing that in your, in your memory.

Chad (00:47:42):
And the reason why that's helpful I think is because, you know, you are, you are taking what you know and you are applying it to something, you know, it, it it has more of a substantial value right, than than words on a page or something that you, that you heard that one time. So I think that's a really, um, I'm glad you brought that up cause that's a really important thing. Um, so, you know, on that, on that, what kind of things did you do in, in learning about Go that kind of helped in that, creating that kind of concrete concreteness?

Josh (00:48:23):
Uh, so two things that I would highly recommend that people lean more into is copy work and reverse engineering. So copy work in the sense of like, um, I, for the longest time struggled to like to build anything with go, because I was like, well, I don't wanna just walk through the paces of what someone else did. I don't think that's very valuable, but what that does give you, especially when you're in a completely different domain and you don't have any context, is it gives you tools to be able to build certain different things. And so that definitely applies in Kubernetes. Like even as a Kubernetes operator, it's still not your responsibility or your domain or even discipline to write the microservices and the web apps that, that are running on the cluster. And like that's a full like different college degree, different discipline, decades of experience to be able to write something beyond like a really horrific HT L and CSS thing, which is what I'm capable of doing today.

Josh (00:49:14):
Um, you can dabble in that, but like where I got hung up is thinking that everything that I wrote needed to be original. And so that there's a, there's a great value in just using someone else's solution where they're like go through and do the paces of like spinning up the dock container and scaling out. And for me that would've been like writing a C L I app and copying every single line. Uh, because then when you do that, you can start to find like, oh, it'd be nice if this did this a little bit differently. And then you go and change that and everything breaks and then you have an opportunity to do some reverse engineering, which is every engineer operators, like probably best skill because that's what we've had to do since day one. We just get thrown in, we have to figure it out and then we have reverse engineering thing until we understand.

Josh (00:49:53):
And so doing copy work gives you an opportunity to do that. Um, that was actually the biggest boon in my growth for Go, um, was when I started to reverse engineer the leco problems cuz they abstract the data structures and those things from you and I had to go and rebuild them to get them to run locally because they just kind of like took that and ran it behind the scenes. Um, but then I had to learn about the, the constructs and the pointers and all that at a deeper level than I had just going through the, the academic material. And I think the same thing would be true if you were to go through and try and, um, like reverse engineer or build out some kind of like lab that a book walks you through for Kubernetes. So copy work and reverse engineering are your friends. So gather the minimum academic knowledge that you can to understand the terms and understand concepts and then start diving into, um, redeploying other people's labs and then trying to reverse engineer and alter it if you can. Um, cuz that's gonna have a far deeper, it'll deepen your understanding way more than just picking up another book will.

Chad (00:50:52):
Yeah. Um, yeah, that's a good point. Kind of, um, almost like presenting problems for yourself to get through obstacles that kind of force you into this problem solving mode that through that problem solving journey or like you said, setting up something locally or what have you, um, kind of forces that learning upon you and k and kind of makes you, um, you know, adds to your experience, right?

Josh (00:51:26):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Absolutely.

Chad (00:51:27):
Yeah. Um, so I, I always think about Kubernetes in buckets. I don't know if this is common for other folks, but, um, so I try to, you know, I try to separate, maybe this is, you know, going back to my, um, kind of engineering brain where I, where I kind of like put everything into buckets or folders or whatever, or, or directories. Um, so I, I try to separate it into API storage, uh, troubleshooting, uh, you know, applications or running applications. Um, so deployments and or staple sets and or pods. And then, um, and then there's one other one, uh, networking. So, uh, those are the five buckets that I put Kubernetes in. And so I usually make this suggestion, um, and correct me if I'm wrong, Josh, or, or maybe you can kind of elaborate on this, or, or maybe you have a better way.

Chad (00:52:25):
I'd love to hear what you think about the process of putting, putting those things and, and those buckets. Like in my mind, I have this kind of, um, Gantt chart, right? Where you have all these in a, in a, at the top of a, a column, and then you're kind of going deep into the bucket, but also, uh, figuring out how these buckets relate to each other and kind of drawing lines to, uh, different buckets and kind of creating that, creating that map, uh, mind map. Um, so I guess, you know, what do you think about that or how do you, have you, in your process of learning go? Have you developed any, anything that's, uh, different or alternative or, um, or anything like that?

Josh (00:53:17):
No, I think that's, it's, it's natural. Um, I, I like to use, so I, I used to play a lot of video games when I was younger, and so I like to use a lot of analogies. So the fog of war is kind of like my, my, um, my favorite analogy, that's a Warcraft and StarCraft analogy where you can't see the map, right? And so, like what you're describing is, is like you've run your units all across the map, and so you've discovered these little pockets, right? So here's Kubernetes, and there's like, kinda like the, the focal point, but then there's these little camps over here, and here's networking over here, and here's storage. And you can, because you understand kind of the basics and how the system all works together, you're able to better, uh, segment and say like, okay, here's, I need to go deeper into networking because I only know this far.

Josh (00:53:56):
Like this is when I would need to know more about networking or something like that. Or versus storage, right? Like, what type of app do you have? And does it need to have stay full storage and stuff like that. Um, you kind of explored that, but someone coming in is gonna be like, um, they're gonna need to have context for those different areas. Like, you know, like you couldn't just go in and go learn Kubernetes networking without learning kind of the Kubernetes fundamentals. It won't make as much sense. Um, so I think that's kind of a natural progression as you just get more and more competent with whatever that domain of knowledge is. Um, and if you were to keep notes and, and to build a slip box, you would actually start to see that laid out and it would look very much like the, the table of contents for a book.

Josh (00:54:33):
Um, so I think that's a perfect way to, to go about doing that and racketing in your brain. But I also, um, anyone starting in the field there, there you kind of like what I was trying to get to with the superficial learning, um, where you kind of just reading through and you're trying to get awareness and that's, that's where you should start. It's like, I just want to understand this, like the terms and the key concepts, like, and read through the book as if, um, not like a textbook where you need to fully understand every single page. It's totally fine to breeze through it just to get like kind of a, a loose figure, right? So in StarCraft there's, you know, a particular thing that the humans can do where they can kind of use radar or whatever, or satellite to temporarily explore space.

Josh (00:55:12):
And that's, that's kind of like what the super official reading does, is it just kind of like briefly introduces you and gets you to see like, oh, there's this networking concept and it's useful when pods need to talk to each other or something like that. And so it's really just giving you context for deepening your learning. Um, but that's where I'd start is just kind of like exploring, getting used to the terms and the space and, um, how things are set up. Um, and then you can start to dive and, and build those deeper expertise as you kind of go along.

Chad (00:55:41):
Yeah. So you, you know, you, you've obviously, um, learned a bit about Kubernetes and, um, can, can you, can you tell us about your learning journey in, in, in learning Kubernetes and how you tried to, tried to tackle that and how far, how far did you make it? Or, or did you notice anything that, um, somebody can glean from this, this talk that we're having now that could help them? Maybe if they're, um, I don't know if they're like stuck on a certain concept or they're, uh, you just talked about, you know, uh, learning the terminology, getting, getting to know, um, all these, all these concepts like pods and, and deployments and all the terminology. But, um, anything else that you can, that you can glean from, you know, cuz it's such a complex topic, you know, it's, it's really hard for people to, to stick with it because there's so many layers of abstraction sometimes that, you know, you get, you get caught up in that.

Chad (00:56:43):
And, uh, it, it's really hard for, uh, for somebody to, to see, okay, like, you know, this is, this is too hard. Like, there's so many people that I've worked with in the past that have just been like, ah, Kubernetes, like, why is this so complicated? I just wanna, you know, I just wanna, you know, ping my server or <laugh>, you know, um, I just want to use Unat without, you know, going through the network name space and all that kind of stuff. So, um, any, any other, I guess, tips that you can give as we, as we kind of close out here, um, to, uh, learning Kubernetes in, in, in general?

Josh (00:57:23):
I think you can have a really good why. Um, that's probably why a lot of people stopped. So that's what, that's actually why I stopped is I just, I didn't have, uh, the need for it anymore. When I switched from being the S3 at Tech Flow and doing the technical writing, I just didn't need to know those things and that's why I stopped. So you really have to have a, why is it a, a job that you won or are you practicing for the certification or gearing yourself up for it? So you're gonna have to give yourself some kind of a carrot because it is complex or is it like, do you wanna run an app? Um, so the having a good why would be my first recommendation. And then the second one would be scope. So like, really like are you aiming for just fundamental knowledge?

Josh (00:57:56):
Are you trying to solve a particular problem? Are you trying to get this, uh, different job and it requires a particular set of skills. And so trying to find out whatever that filter is to reduce the scope. Cuz if you just say like, I wanna master Kubernetes, like that's like, are you gonna contribute to Kubernetes? Are you gonna write back to the open source? Like, that's a whole different game. Do you just need to know how to operate it? Do you need to know like, how to do staple storage? That way you can get some adoption for Kubernetes in your organization. Uh, and so asking, you know, that with the why question, I think would be the best, would be the best bet. And then once you kind of solve that problem, you can pivot and, and repeat that and iterate on it. Um, but with all those two things, it's gonna be difficult to kind of stay the course cuz it's just so, such a broad, uh, topic and domain.

Chad (00:58:38):
Yeah, I would, I would agree that that why has to be pretty strong, um, to, to really hang in there. Um, yeah, and, and I have heard that before, you know, it's like, it's such a, it's such a buzzword, right? Kubernetes is such a buzzword that, you know, you can easily jump on the bandwagon, but you know, you, you have to have that reason, whether it's, you know, uh, you, your boss is telling you you have to learn it or there's this certification that you wanna get to, to possibly get you a better job or a promotion or, or another, you know, transfer skillsets or what have you. Um, so yeah, I think that's really important. Um, and, and I think that's a, that's a really good thing to kind hone in on as we close out here is just kind of knowing, knowing why you're doing it.

Chad (00:59:28):
And then, um, you know, there's, there's a lot of why's, you know, that, that you could grasp onto. Um, if, if you're listening. So there's, you know, special interest groups we call 'em SIGs, uh, that you could contribute to. And a lot of times being a part of those groups, um, you know, helps you learn through osmosis like you, like you did with the PowerShell group. Um, you know, there's, there's our group cube skills, which helps, you know, you kind of get, get the ball ro rolling in terms of learning Kubernetes and, and being a part of kind of that, that small safe group that you feel like you can ask questions, um, and, and contributing you, you mentioned contributing, so that's a big, big part of it too. You know, uh, I think Kubernetes, you know, Kubernetes being an open source project, you know, they, they place a high importance on contributing.

Chad (01:00:19):
So I would definitely, uh, look into that. And, um, and I actually have a link, uh, to a contributor cheat sheet that I'd like to share with you, uh, speaking of contributing. And so if you wanna know how to contribute, you know, how do I, how do I get involved in, in the thing called Kubernetes and how do I, um, uh, contribute to a project or a sig or anything. Um, please check that out. Um, but, um, yeah, just, I just wanna close out with, you know, just, uh, you know, asking you, Josh, what's, what's been going on lately, what have you been working on, any, anything particularly interesting that, that you could, uh, share with us here before we, uh, before we leave?

Josh (01:01:10):
Um, so trying to apply the Go Knowledge a little bit more. So I've been tinkering with, uh, building some web services, and so that'll probably be more, more what shows up in that everything I know about Go repo and then, uh, dabbling with data sources or, uh, data structure and algorithms, uh, and then kind of more work related I've been diving into to Kubernetes more. So I'll probably be poking around the Kubernetes space even more and more in the, in the fu the near near future.

Chad (01:01:33):
Nice. And I know you're an avid reader, so what are you reading right now?

Josh (01:01:37):
I am reading a book called Pivot, and so it's kind of about like, like how to take different steps in your career and stuff like that, uh, which is pretty interesting. And then what other, the next one on my, my list is Mastery by Robert Green. Um, so that should be, that should be good.

Chad (01:01:53):
Nice. Um, cool. Well, thank you so much for joining today. I, I hope it was, um, helpful to, to all of you listening to get some, uh, tips and tricks on learning Kubernetes, how to kind of, you know, start off, organize your knowledge and, um, you know, we talked about, we talked about, uh, a lot of stuff mostly, um, you know, related to, you know, personal knowledge management and how to, how to start using, uh, some of these note-taking apps and, and, um, and all that. But I think one, one of the things that I wanted to highlight and kind of summary here is that I think, um, reducing friction is, is very important for, you know, getting your ideas on paper or, or on, uh, some of these note-taking apps or on, uh, somewhere digitally. And then, you know, being able to express that in some form, whether, whether you're, you know, teaching another person, uh, you know, maybe your colleague or maybe your, your family member.

Chad (01:02:56):
Um, and then that expression part, I think was something that I, that I gleaned from this. And also, you know, being able to take complex topics like go, like Kubernetes and, and really trying to, to break those down. Um, we, we talked about learning the, the, the, the terminology and, and learning kind of the, the basics before you dive deep into a particular topic. And then most importantly, I think is, is having a why. So, um, so yeah, I hope everyone got some, some valuable, uh, knowledge out of this. Uh, thanks again, Josh for, for joining. Really appreciate your time. It was really, uh, it was really exciting for me and, and it was great to talk to you. Um, my pleasure. And, uh, if you haven't already, check out, uh, Josh's videos on YouTube and, uh, we men, we mentioned his, his YouTube page earlier, and, uh, check out how you can get started with using, using obsidian and, uh, check out his book, how to Take Smart Notes and Obsidian, which is, which is really cool for, for trying to get that, that, uh, more permanent notes and more, you know, you know, being able to retain knowledge and being able to reference it and being able to, uh, go through that process of capture, organized, distill, express.

Chad (01:04:11):
So, so that, I, I will leave you, leave you with that. Um, again, cube skills.com if you wanna join our community. Everyone is welcome. It's, it's truly a safe space and really a, a great community of, of people who are really excited about learning Kubernetes and, and really excited about helping other people grow and learn. And, and that's really the focus of this, of this chat with you, Josh, and also kind of my, my mantra and, and, and my personal mission. So I appreciate you, uh, I appreciate you adding to that.

Josh (01:04:44):
It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Chad (01:04:46):
All right, and everyone, have a, a good rest of your day and we'll see you next time.