Why Artificial Intelligence Is Incomplete Without Real Intelligence | Asim Kumar

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Welcome to this very special edition of the KJ Masterclass Live,
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the show which ensures that you profit from your time
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spent here with experts, either through their industry insights, information,
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or simply learning from them. And today we have with
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us Asim Kumar, veteran solution architect, business advisor, lifelong student
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of the financial markets and human behavior, founder of Avigna.
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Over three decades of experience spanning network and security engineering,
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IT strategy, financial risk management, and business development, Asim has
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built a career on one promise, real intelligence must lead
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artificial intelligence.
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So we'll talk about all this.
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We'll also talk about whether, you know, we'll also explore
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with him whether AI will replace us, how one can
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move from fear to focus, and also about his easier methodology.
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Welcome to the show, Asim.
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Thank you, Ajay. Thanks for the intro.
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You're welcome. Welcome to the show once again, Asim.
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So first, you know, to understand itself, you know, AI
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and all these things. Let's understand it in my simple
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way for the common percentage. Who is more powerful today?
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Is real intelligence more powerful or is artificial intelligence more
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powerful today?
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Yeah, before we get into artificial intelligence, well, of course,
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real is always real. I mean, there's no substitute for that.
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That's always going to be there as long as Humanity
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is there. So that is the real intelligence, which resides
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right here on both sides of our heads. So that's
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not going to go anywhere. And it has been time tested.
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We have had the industry revolution. We had the internet boom.
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We had the cloud. Now we have the so-called artificial intelligence,
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which is everybody saying it's different this time. I've heard
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this before. So that was my premise around, based on
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my journey around technology and then eventually in financial markets
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where I discovered where the human mind is a superpower
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that we all have, but we don't fully use probably.
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And that's where we surrender to fear and greed and
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all those negative vices.
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Absolutely, Asim. So let's understand it through your journey. Tell
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us a bit about your journey.
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Background, your journey, so that the audience knows better about
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you and also about how you came to talking about
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these things today, especially with your interest in financial markets
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and all that.
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Yeah, so like you said it in the intro, my
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background is in network engineering and security engineering, and that's
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how I started back in mid-90s. Life was great. And
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then I had the best of the best industrial credentials,
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the degrees, and life was good. The 2000 era was there.
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And then we were like indispensable at one time. And
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then the dot-com came around right after that. And then 2002,
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where I was seeing the insecurity popping in where my colleagues,
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even much better than I was at that time, were
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getting laid off every week. And then we're like, wow,
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being a network engineer, yeah, we have a single point
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of failure. So that's why we design systems. But what
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about my personal life? Like I was the most insecure
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person at that time when I said, okay, all these credentials,
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like PhD level, and I'm I could be given a
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pink slip next Monday. So that's where I thought, okay,
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there has to be something else as a backup. This
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one industry, one paycheck is basically the single point of
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failure and that's not going to sustain. So that's what
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drove me into the financial market discovery. And then I
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fully got into that. And then around 2007, I was
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at a point where I thought, That is my green pasture.
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And I would probably switch careers around that time. And
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then I was enrolled into a MBA program thinking, okay,
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let's take it next level while I'm learning on my own.
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And then I'll have another credential that will make me
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more indispensable, bulletproof. So as the irony would have it,
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right in the middle of the program, 2008, we had
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the biggest financial global crisis ever. And there my dream
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got shattered. I said, okay, maybe my acres of diamonds
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are right here in the tech. I will probably continue
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with that as I am delving into financial markets as
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a side hustle probably. So that happened. Then 2010 came
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in around after the cloud. And then 2020, the COVID
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came in and then we had this thing again around
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the layoffs, but that was global around nothing to do
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with tech or the industry. It was widespread. That's when
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I started putting the pieces together about the book that
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I wrote eventually out of this. But I didn't write
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the book in 2020. The book came in last year,
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especially when this AI scare came in, where it was
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my third time seeing much bigger scale where my near
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and dears were getting laid off again. And they thought
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they were very secure. And same thing was happening. It
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was not new to me, but I was much prepared
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because of my experience in financial markets, self-discovery around human psychology.
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But what it did for me was I said, okay,
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now I need to put all the compilation together, let
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it out, as a message, as if I was talking
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to my 32-year-old that, yes, this is nothing new. And
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there is a way to build your own personal resilient system.
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And that's where the book came around, which is called Unblocked.
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So it's get your mind unblocked from a blocked mindset.
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So get away from fear. and just focus on building
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the future regardless the situation. So that's where the journey started.
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And that's what I'm kind of sending out the message
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that AI is not going to replace the real intelligence
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that we humans possess. So that's where we are.
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Absolutely. Absolutely, Asim.
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So we'll talk about your book also, Unblock the Power
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of Real Intelligence.
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In the Era of AI.
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So when real intelligence is so powerful, AI is built
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on that intelligence.
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Why is it that people are so young? Carry on.
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Yeah, so AI is another tech, right? So in my book,
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the foundational element that we talk in enterprises, like it's
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not just the technology. It's the, what we call it
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as a tripod of success, which is the basis of
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any infrastructure of an enterprise, the people process and technology.
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So it's like the three stool, a three legged stool
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where we have to balance. So any of one of
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the legs, if they supersedes the stool is going to
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top up. And that's where, uh, The same comes from
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the discovery from McKinsey's and all that. 70% of the
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digital transformation projects fail because the focus is entirely under
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pushing out the technology, not focusing on people and the processes.
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So that's where we missed the boat. So artificial intelligence
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is that technology. And I've been from the very beginning,
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whether it was network, security, cloud, the use of technology
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is where people lose sight. They just go with a
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shiny bullet and then just go after it without fully
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comprehending it and how to make use of it to
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the full extent.
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Absolutely.
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So I want to understand for the audience, what is
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it that you are trying to tell with what you
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are saying, with what you are doing and also through
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your book? Yes.
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I mentioned the tripod of success, right? So for the individual,
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the solopreneurs, that AI is revolutionizing is like there's a saying,
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we will have the first billion dollar entrepreneur will be
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a single person because of AI. So what I'm telling
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you on the people side, it's the mindset. When you
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look at that tripod, the people in an enterprise, if
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you map it to your individualism, it's your mindset. And
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the process part is your habits. Habits where in the
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fast pace environment that you have to have. So in
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my case, for my personal discovery, I came up with
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this acronym called EPDF. It's the Energy, Patience, Discipline, and Focus. Basically,
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all learned from the way the financial markets worked. So
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my mentality was, okay, I'm so good at technology. I
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can translate that into the financial market, no problem, because
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it's technical analysis, but I was way, way so wrong.
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So that's where the discovery come in. Like the way.
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I am impatient in the technology. Go, go, go. Doesn't
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work in financial markets. It's like, okay, let it run.
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So be patient. Same thing with discipline, right? So discipline
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kind of works on both sides, but it was different
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for me where I was going after everything I've done. Forex,
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I did futures. There was no discipline. I was just
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going all over the place in the beginning. And then
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focus again to the point where you have to, yeah,
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in technology, yes, you have a broad portfolio, but you
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go deep into it. And same applies to AI, right?
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AI is going everywhere, but every week you're getting a
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new tool out there. That's where the overwhelmed part comes in.
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So that's where you need to narrow your focus on
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wherever you are and then build upon that. And then
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the first of, The foundational scale, I would say, is
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the energy management because what I had learned through hard
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knocks was, yeah, what I thought, I was delusional, right?
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So that delusional effect took a toll on my own
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personal being. Like I gained weight. I was like questioning myself,
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the self-doubt, imposter syndrome. These were the two things I
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didn't even know about. So that's when I went into
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the human psychology part of it and learned about it.
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I said, okay, so confidence was shattered, right? Okay, why me?
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And I was just questioning myself, right, at some point, like, okay,
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it just doesn't make sense. So the energy part came
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in from there, and that built upon the patience and discipline.
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I'm much calmer now. I'm much relaxed, and I'm much focused. So, uh,
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and then the, as of last year, uh, I would,
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people were surprised that I wrote a book. So that's
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how I was known. This guy's an introvert. Like he
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doesn't talk much. Uh, and he came up with the book,
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not just outside, just look at my family. They were,
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they got that book as a surprise on Christmas. So,
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so they were like, wow, you wrote a book. So
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So I was at a point, I said, if not now,
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then when? I just want to at least come up
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with my compilation, my experience as a business strategy book,
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and that can translate into your personal strategy as well.
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So that's what I'm trying to teach people now is
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build your own personal resilient system. So no matter what
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comes next, you will be ready to deal with it.
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Absolutely.
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So individuals and companies. What does resilience system here mean?
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How have you covered that in the book? What have
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you covered as well? Where does, you know, Avigna come
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into the picture?
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Yeah, so what Avigna means is remover of obstacles from
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the Sanskrit word, right? Avigna. So that has been the
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motto of my company, which I started back in 2013.
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And then finding solutions and enabling success is the the
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caption that we go with. Right now, we are changing
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it from fragility to freedom because, yes, people are feeling
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fragile because the insecurity that's popping in, okay, what's going
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to happen? AI is going to replace me. So we
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want to move them to the free mindset, right? Okay,
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so by way of upskilling yourself. So there are a
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couple of elements in the book. Basically, the book is
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structured in three ways, the alignment, the measurement, and the execution.
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So alignment I already talked about is the people, process,
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and technology, the tripod of success. That's the foundational thing
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built in with the EPDF. And then in the measurement,
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I talk about in business terms, like what do we
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have in business, a product, a service, and then we
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do business for profit. So those are the three chapters
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in there that are, literally acronyms. The book is, all
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the chapters are acronym-based. And then they've been expanded out
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for an enterprise and as a personal. What is a product?
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What are the features of a product? What are the
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features of service? And then what profit really means is
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oxygen for value sustainability, not just making money. So given
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an interest of time, what I will really talk about
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part of the execution is the work. Work is willingness
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to obtain real knowledge. So you have to rethink work
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in that terms. What is real knowledge? Again, coming back
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to real intelligence, right? So I broke that down into
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hard work and smart work, not the traditional hard work
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where we grind, right, as a, Engineer, you will basically
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write code, thousands of lines of code. That's grind work. Hard,
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I define it as happy, attitude, rigor, and discipline. So
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wherever you are, you need to do things happily. Otherwise,
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no matter where you go next, you will be in
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the same state. That's from my learning. So no matter
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how much floor I can pound, oh, I hate this.
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I hate my job. You will never... find happiness in
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your next job either. So you'll be the same way.
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So the attitude needs to change towards work. That's where
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the willingness comes in and the ownership comes in that, okay,
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I need to learn it with rigor and discipline. So
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the discipline ties back to the PDF again. So the
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second piece is the SMART, not the SMART goals one.
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This is study, master, apply, revise and track. It's like
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a continuous learning cycle that you need to get in.
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So that has been my journey. I talked to you
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about earlier credentials and degrees and all that. So I've
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been a continuous learner myself, but I learned the hard
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way on the other side, on the financial market, which
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I was totally unaware of, which was part of my self-discovery.
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So now I'm tying these to how to rethink work,
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Basic premise is, again, adaptability. So no matter what comes next,
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you are the human. And human has that power of
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adaptation from Charles Darwin's theory, right? So your intelligence doesn't
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matter how intelligent, hard worker you are. But if you're
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not adaptable, you are not going to go anywhere. You're
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not going to survive. So the survival of the fittest
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is being adaptable is the first attribute needs to have.
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So that's the work part in there.
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Absolutely, Asim. So for a common person, if they want
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to understand, Asim, where do I get real intelligence?
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Because most of the learning is happening from artificial intelligence
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and tools as such, which has actually used real intelligence
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and we convert it into artificial intelligence and we are
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learning and learning from the machine learning itself.
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In that sense, where do I learn something real?
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Yeah, so it comes down to the upscaling part, just
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like any other tech you will learn. With artificial intelligence,
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especially now, I'll give you my example too on the
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adaptability and then creating part. So you have to rethink work,
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like I said. And then with the wipe coding now
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coming in, a lot of the software has been very
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easily developed, which I used. I'm a network and security engineer,
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not a programmer by trade, but I was able to
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figure it out last year or during my research of
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all these AI tools and models that I could create
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a software on my own. So basically I created a
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coaching app, which is on my, and the training on
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my website using wipe coding. I was not a coder before.
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So I didn't give it in. I said, okay, so
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you have to, like I said, use of technology. So
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AI is there for use. So if you know, upskill
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yourself to be able to use to your advantage, then
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that's where the real intelligence comes in, is try to
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put in the context first and then use your judgment.
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So with a lot of the tools, there is an
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issue with AI, especially in the enterprise, the black box problem,
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what I call the black box problem. Hey, you give
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it a prompt, it does its thing, but without knowing
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what's happening in the background. So you did mention in
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my intro about the easier methodology. So I'll touch upon that.
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Easier is an infrastructure framework that I came up with.
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back when the cloud was emerging. So easier stands for elastic, agile, secure, intelligent,
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then economical, then risk reducer. So that's the easier infrastructure format.
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That's the foundational things for any technology. So S in
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there is the security piece, which is big for the
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AI black box problem. If you don't know how the
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system works, how would you ensure it's secure by design?
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So that's one of the things that I bring into
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the table is from my background is security has to
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be in there, not just added on after the fact.
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So these are the elements you have to know from
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a technology standpoint. What are the building blocks of any
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tech that you should be looking at? So there is
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an application part of it, right? Like people are doing
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all these, the white coding and whatever, the video generation
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and all that. Those are day-to-day type of tools, but
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at an enterprise level for the business workflows that are
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being automated using AI, and a lot of them are
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failing because of the same reason. I've seen this before,
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like 70, 80% of the modernization programs fail because of that,
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because it's not thought through. People are not trained. Processes
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are not tweaked. That goes back to the alignment piece.
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So you need to start thinking in those frameworks to
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think ahead. So when you say AI will replace me,
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I would say somebody who is using the methodology of
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AI will replace you, not just AI by itself. So
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people are still going to be there So in my book,
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I talk about the governance architect. That's the future. So
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you should be able to see from as a manager
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of technology, like, okay, how does it work? And what
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are the pieces that makes it more useful, productive, profitable?
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Those are the elements I threw in the book as well,
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where it would make sense. And once you have that
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in your arsenal, So that's how you can be more
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competitive in the game.
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Absolutely.
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One last question I have for you, Asim, is you
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talk about that artificial intelligence is incomplete without real intelligence. Nowadays,
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a lot of people use artificial intelligence for looking at
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knowledge gaps. So who will complement whom? Will AI complement
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real intelligence? Or will real intelligence complement AI? Because there
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is both ways. You know, one is being used as
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knowledge gap. At the other side, we are looking at,
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you know, AI slops and trying to work around our
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way through that.
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Yeah, it's a two-way street, right? So how did AI
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come in? Somebody trained it, right? So basically, how did
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I come up with my coaching app? I wrote the
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book first. And then I fed that into my application.
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I gave it the context and the framework that these
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are your boundaries. And basically, now we talk about cloning, right?
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How do you cloning work? I said, okay, you have
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to know about me. So I have to feed in
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that information first that we call the training, the LLMs,
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the large language model. And then based on that, the AI.
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What is AI?
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AI is a multiplier, right? It's technology. I cannot put
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10 things together as fast as a machine can do.
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So the premise is you will not be able to
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outperform the machines, definitely. But you can provide the context
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to start with and the judgment that goes along with it.
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So as a human, you will have to decide whether
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the output is correct or not. So AI will probably
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give you something like you might have noticed. It's always...
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going to spit out, and then if you correct it,
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it's a great idea. Yeah, I didn't even think about it.
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So it's interactive. So the more the human starts thinking,
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not totally surrendering to it, and make it work, it's
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like take AI as your pet. So you teach it
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howsoever you want to behave, and that's how it's going
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to be. So a more intelligent person might train it
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better than you, that's where the competition comes in, the
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real intelligence working against each other. Absolutely.
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So who is your book for? Unblock the Power of
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Real Intelligence?
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It's for any entrepreneur, solopreneur, technology leader, enterprise to basically
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rethink how to make this technology within an enterprise work.
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So it's a business strategy book. It works well. for
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both enterprise and individual who want to go like myself.
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So that's what the book is for. That's where it
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starts with the alignment piece around people, process, technology, and
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that the leadership has to take that ownership. So it's
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a top-down approach, right? So as a single small business owner,
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the CEO of that company, the solopreneur, of the company
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is the decision maker. And that's where it flows down
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into the culture.
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Right. And who is your ideal client?
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Anyone who would want to connect with you and get
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your help?
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Well, like I mentioned, the fragility to freedom, right? So
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anybody who's feeling insecure or not sure about how this
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new tech will impact and where to go from there.
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So that's where I bring in the blend of those two,
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like a personal resilient system. So that's where I am
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more focused on is the foundational piece. And then I
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have partnerships with some AI certification and then risk management
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companies now that depending on the need, we can offer
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that as well. Like AI, I don't teach AI per se, right?
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I have partnerships where whether you are a marketing company
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or HR or healthcare, doesn't matter, right? So we give
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you the essential basic building blocks and then we'll point
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you to the focus area, like where you need to
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go deeper. So like, yeah, that's where I'm trying to
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help people out you are jumping in an ocean, but okay,
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how do you find your backwaters to, to sustain yourself,
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not getting overwhelmed. So helping them build that foundation around
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EPDF first, and then moving on from, from there on. Absolutely.
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There's so much to learn about all this from you.
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And I'm sure a lot of people, a lot of,
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you know, people who want to understand from the individual aspect,
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as well as from the business aspect of super intelligence,
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real intelligence and artificial intelligence would want to connect with you.
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What's the best way for them to do so?
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Yeah, so you'll probably have my website. That's the first
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place to go to. And there will be links to
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my LinkedIn, Insta and email. The website is avignallc.com. It's
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A-V-I-G-N-A-L-L-C dot com, C-O-M. So visit there. I mentioned the
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coaching app. There is a training as well based on
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the book. And then if you want to connect from
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me there, schedule a call. I'll be happy to walk
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the people through.
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Wonderful.
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With this, it's set up on this very special edition
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of the KJ Masterclass Live.
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Thank you so much indeed for joining us.
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Thank you, AJ. Thank you.