WEBVTT
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So, my guest today is Andrew Ray, who is the face and creator behind the massively successful YouTube channel Binging with Babish.
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So, I first met him when I was promoting my stand-up special Human Magic, available now on Hulu.
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Um, but by promoting it, I went on his show and ranked pickles.
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And I had so much fun, and he was so lovely that we've since become friends.
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And most recently, Andrew has become a podcast host.
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He has joined the Vox Media Podcast Network, and in collaboration with Eater, he hosts In the Booth with Babish, where he interviews celebrities and chefs, and they make a meal out of chit chat.
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Every episode is structured like a menu of conversation, and his premier episode was with Peabody award-winning chef Alton Brown.
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So come on in.
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It's open.
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So you have one of the most successful YouTube channels on YouTube.
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10 million subscribers for binging with Babish.
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Thank you very much.
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It's it's it's actually a product of what we were talking about before.
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Uh the because I started about 10 years ago.
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And back then you didn't need to pay for engagement, or it wasn't about creating the most engaging thing.
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You just put something out and people would gravitate to it.
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Yep.
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And I was lucky enough to come up in that era.
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You you as well with Chronic Gamer Girl.
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Like that was just like the time when you would make something that you were excited about and it would, it could succeed.
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Yeah.
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And um, like, you know, I I won't, I won't gush, you know what I mean?
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I won't go nuts, but I like do want to say your channel just brings people so much happiness.
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It's so gratifying, but it's not, it's not cheap because you are putting so much love and time into it.
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Um, and you're right, there's like a natural gravitation toward it that is, I mean, it's just fucking brilliant.
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It started with the um you making meals from TV and film.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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And you are a a lover of TV and film.
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So this was combining your two passions.
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Yeah.
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Uh I'm I'm I it took me, you know, 27 years to figure it out.
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I've always been nuts about food and movies.
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And for some reason, took me a w a while to be like, oh, food from movies.
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I wasn't the first one doing it.
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There was a there was a channel on YouTube uh called Feast of Fiction uh that was doing it for a while before me.
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Um, but it was more geared toward kids.
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It was a very, very different format.
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Um and uh yeah, I was deeply depressed.
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I had just finished working on a documentary for a year and a half that went nowhere, and I got paid four grand for editing this feature doc over uh, you know, not uh 18 months.
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And uh it just imploded and I was just so down.
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And I started going to therapy and getting on well butrin, which is you know, giving me a lot of bandwidth and it took me out of the darkness a little bit.
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Yeah.
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I took on more debt uh than I already had, which was so much, way too much, uh, and bought a camera and a light and was just fucking around in my kitchen.
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And uh I was background watching Parks and Wreck, uh, just like one listens to music.
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That's uh uh Pat Parks, Broad City, um, Frasier.
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Those are my background watches.
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Yeah.
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And uh it and the there was a burger cook-off, and I was like, what would that burger taste like?
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And that was that.
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Yeah.
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You talk very openly about mental health.
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And when you were just saying about Well Futrin, I always say there would be no Broad City without Cymbalta.
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I was on antidepressants, but it was uh like it's also for chronic pain from ages 19 to 32.
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And the way that you just said it, that it like expanded your bandwidth, is exactly it, right?
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Like you didn't, it doesn't change things, it just like kind of all there's like all these like clouds taking up space and it like parts them a little bit.
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Um and it's funny how you were in such a low place, and then out of that you found this such an authentic expression of your creativity.
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It raised the floor on how bad I could feel.
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And it's it's funny how we're both over medicated and under medicated at the same time because like so many people who have experienced even acute incidental depression get prescribed antidepressants, which can be good or bad.
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But then there are so many people who are just in the fucking dumps who can't bring themselves out to go and get the thing, the help that they need and then there.
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They also think that's baseline.
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Yeah.
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You know, like so you're from Rochester, New York, and you went to school at Hofstra on Long Island, and I went to um I grew up on Long Island.
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You know, I'm wondering about um like how you your perception of mental health or your like grasp of mental health growing up.
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We're like the same age, we're both from the suburbs of New York, New York City.
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Was that the first time you hitting rock bottom?
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Was that the first time that you were like, oh, I'm depressed.
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This is what depression is, I need therapy.
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It sounded like it all happened at once, the way that you just said it.
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Yeah, definitely of my own volition.
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Uh my mother died when I was 11, and that um obviously wasn't great.
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Uh it sent my dad into a deep, deep depression.
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Um, of course.
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And and do you have siblings?
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Uh yeah, I have an older brother, but he was he's seven years older than me, so he had a life going on.
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Totally in a different phase.
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Yeah, he was he was with us, but he, you know, was building his life.
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And so it was just me and him, and uh we, you know, were at odds.
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And I went to go see a therapist who was an awful therapist.
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Fuck.
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Uh, I remember him telling me uh, because I would have such big emotions that I couldn't go to school or I couldn't interact with people.
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And he would be like, Sometimes you just need to put those emotions in a box.
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Silent generation therapist?
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What is this?
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Oh my God.
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And uh so that was detrimental, I'd say.
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Uh I only went to him for about a year and my dad pulled me out for reasons I can't remember.
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Um, and uh I didn't touch it since then.
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And um Right, that makes sense.
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I was also diagnosed ADHD without being treated for it because basically my my mom and dad got me tested when I was like nine, tested positive.
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She uh wanted to do it on her own.
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She didn't want to medicate me at the time.
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It was just like Ritalin or 100.
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And she didn't want to do that.
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And uh she was apparently doing a very good job, I don't really remember, um, doing a very good job of just like finding systems that worked for my brain.
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And then when she died, obviously that all went out the window.
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And my father's always been a disciplinarian, so that obviously we butted heads on that.
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Uh and uh yeah, mental health always felt and was always treated like a a um either a luxury that you know only the the the very wealthy who are caught up in their money problems uh have, or people who are very sick who really, really need it.
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It wasn't for people who are just trying to get through life with their existing traumas and stuff.
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Um I like to say that uh very few people need therapy, but everybody could use therapy.
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Um not very few people.
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Some people need therapy, but everybody could use therapy.
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Uh and so yeah, it took me a long time to figure that out.
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I was just gutting it out for the longest time.
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Wow.
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And that was the beginning of the change.
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It was that and mushrooms.
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I don't know if we can talk about mushrooms on sure.
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Oh, I figured.
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And then also I didn't I didn't know that your mother passed away when you were a kid.
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I did not know that.
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Yeah, no, it was it was uh she it was her third bat with cancer.
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Uh so everybody else kind of saw it coming, but I was eleven, so I was just like, oh, it's her third round, she's got this.
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Right.
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And uh uh so it was actually extremely shocking when they came downstairs and told me that she had just died.
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And you were 11 and your brother's 18.
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So yeah, he's out of the house.
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Yeah, yeah, he was in college and um uh Which is all I mean, that's like so hard too.
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Yeah, no, he was going through it on in his own way, and he was like, Where was he at?
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He was so he went to Rochester Institute, you know, pretty nearby.
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And um, you know, I he did the exact same thing I would have done, which is turn inward.
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That's what we were always taught to do.
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And two boys, yeah.
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Yeah, two boys, and we've always been to anytime things are tough, we're taught to, you know, buck up and just deal with it.
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Yeah.
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And um, yeah, it's I still have a lot of issues getting over that that feeling of like, oh, you're not supposed to feel like this.
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Totally.
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You're supposed to, you know, be strong, you're supposed to be like capable, and and you gotta go, you know, pay this person$500 a week to talk to them.
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Just to like it, it it it doesn't make sense to my you know, simple man mind that I was given from an early age.
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But as I'm getting older, I'm getting better with it.
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And then the other thing that just lit up for me is that you said your mom liked systems, which is reminding me of your channel.
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And now you like organize it into systems.
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You know what I mean?
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That your, you know, production is so robust and the team also, it's just um, it's just making me think about like the systems that you employ.
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That's really funny.
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And it sounds like without medication, she was like really dedicated to practicing it, which is like so um, so clearly what your work is so clearly like the effort of your work, you know, so much practice and systems put in place and trying it again and again and again and again until you get a perfect.
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I've never thought of that.
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That's actually that's really interesting.
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Um, and it's it's cool, it's cool to think about it that way because I'm going off hearsay.
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I'm going off what people tell me because I've I've obviously a lot of people that I've met that um that uh who've lost parents around that age, they don't remember anything before that.
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And I'm I I have little fits and starts, little glimmers of like particularly bad moments usually that wedge themselves in my brain.
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But I don't remember what her voice sounds like.
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I I I don't remember many of the things that she did.
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It's more things that people have told me.
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So to know that it's imprinted on me in some way outside of my conscious identity, that's actually that's really cool to think about.
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And also, like, I'm not surprised that you are drawn to mushrooms because it is such a like mothering substance, you know.
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And it also like it'll bring these things up that you can't like think of from here.
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You know what I mean?
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It has to like sort of like blossom from behind.
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So that started when you were.
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So first of all, I didn't okay, there's like two other things I want to say, but I'm gonna hold them for here.
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I didn't realize that you were it was only 10 years ago that you started the channel.
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I thought it was more like 14 or 15.
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No, no, it was um back in 2016.
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That is incredible.
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You have got gained so much success in this time.
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And like Broad City was happening before it in LOL Chronic Gamer Girl.
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Thank you for knowing it.
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Uh we love it.
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But um, yeah, that is it, it like really popped off in such a short amount of time.
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Um it I mean, uh, it feels weird saying this, but you know, for food YouTubers uh or any but any YouTubers that could self-produce, uh, if COVID were kind of the Halcyon days, because you know, I I I didn't stop.
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I baby, I was working harder than I have ever worked during COVID because all I had to do was be in the house and keep making videos is the only way I could stay sane.
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So like I remember one month I got 260,000 subscribers in a month.
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Wow.
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Uh because everybody was making sourdough.
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And uh right.
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Oh my God.
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Wow, that's so cool.
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It's New York.
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So they have a new flavor this year called Raz Up.
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Oh my god, look at that.
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00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:59.519
Hi, just stepping in to interrupt myself here with my ground news segment for It's Open.
00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:17.279
So, Ground News is a website and an app that aggregates articles from all around the world and then organizes them into left, center, and right leaning biases to make it easy for you to have media literacy in this time when the news is just, I mean, a tsunami of nonsense.
00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:23.519
Ground news will also tell you where articles are coming from and whether or not it is original or recycled reporting.
00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:29.840
You know, I feel like I'm in control and I have my hands on the steering wheel of my own news consumption rather than being a pawn in someone else's game.
00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:41.840
So I've been absolutely uh disturbed by um the instability in the economy in the US and around the world uh in the past couple of years since Trump took office.
00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:44.080
And I want to see what's going on in trade.
00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:46.080
So let's look at the left-leaning sources.
00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:46.720
U.S.
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Appeals Court blocks Trump admin from enacting new plans to slash consumer watchdog staff.
00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:55.600
So US Appeals Court blocked it.
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Great.
00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:58.480
Thanks, US Appeals Court, whatever.
00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:08.159
So join me in sifting through the crazy news and making sense of it by going to groundnews.com forward slash open.
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That's ground, g-r-o-uns.com forward slash open for it's open with Lana Glazer for 40% off the vantage plan.
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Ground News is subscriber funded and female founded.
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And the thing I love about being subscriber funded is that we are investing in sharing a reality together.
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You can find the direct link to this opportunity to get 40% off the vantage plan in the episode description on every platform you watch and listen to.
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It's open.
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Pausing your regularly scheduled programming to offer you a great discount on a great product.
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Thank goodness springtime is here.
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I was losing it and dog, but I'm so happy it's here because when I put my boots back onto shelf, I put on Bomba's footwear.
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Check this out.
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Oh yeah.
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It's time for springtime and summer, baby.
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This is waterproof.
00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:00.559
This is lightweight.
00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:01.279
I could toss it.
00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:02.639
Here's another product.
00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:04.159
I could toss it in my bag.
00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:07.360
I could toss them on, walk outside, take a shower at the gym.
00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:08.000
You know what I'm talking about?
00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:09.679
And that's a brag that I go to the gym.
00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:12.240
Um and I'm just loving it.
00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:13.200
This is Bomba's footwear.
00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:14.080
I thought they just made socks.
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:15.200
No, they make footwear too.
00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:16.799
You know what I also didn't realize they make?
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Underwear and t-shirts.
00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:19.120
I'm wearing it right now.
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:20.399
It's breathable, it's soft.
00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:22.240
It's uh it's feeling good in my body.
00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:23.679
Oh, check this out.
00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:26.080
Yeah, that's nice.
00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:27.919
That's really it just feels good.
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00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:11.279
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00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:14.799
So you're saying after this like doc, you fell into depression.
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.799
And this is when you were like, I gotta just, I gotta just make this video for fun, right?
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:21.039
And you started therapy, but mushrooms as well.
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:21.679
Yes.
00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:24.159
Uh so this is before I made the first video.
00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:26.960
I definitely did mushrooms before uh the first video.
00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:32.159
I was probably going to therapy for like six months before I, you know, managed to come up.
00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:33.519
Got it, got it.
00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:42.799
Um and uh I was going to my uh old uh bosses, they every year they would have a big birthday blowout in uh Montauk.
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:47.039
And I they were said they were gonna do mushrooms, and I was like, oh, I don't know.
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:48.799
I'm not sure if I'm into that.
00:16:49.039 --> 00:17:07.759
And I so when I say you wouldn't have recognized me back then, I mean it both physically because I had some hair and no beard and zero confidence and zero ability to carry a conversation uh without constantly just like judging everything was coming out of my mouth, in other words, not be able to hold a conversation.
00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:14.960
Um, and then I did the mushrooms and I got a glimpse into oh my god, this is the person I've always wanted to be.
00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:16.880
I was making people laugh.
00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:24.799
I the one guy had a freak out on the mushrooms, and he because uh this this really drunk cop just walked into the house.
00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.440
Oh, oh well, welcome to Long Island.
00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:30.240
This really drunk cop just walked into my house.
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:31.359
Yeah, that's Long Island.
00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:32.640
Blackout dude came in.
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:34.880
I mean, it was a little, you know, cottage, like a rental thing.
00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:37.119
And uh he just walked in and sat down.
00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:38.559
He's like, You're gonna make me a drink?
00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:40.640
And we're like, So scary in his uniform.
00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:42.640
And no, no, he was plain clothes.
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:44.160
We asked him, What do you so what do you do?
00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:46.880
And he was like, I'm I'm an off-duty uh officer.
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:50.480
And one guy I'm professionally a drunk off-duty officer.
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:52.559
Well, you know, yeah, yeah.
00:17:52.799 --> 00:18:01.359
But then one guy who uh the guy who brought the mushrooms literally stood up like the Manchurian candidate and just walked out because he was like, No, I'm not doing this.
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:04.960
And he didn't bring his shoes and he didn't bring his stuff.
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:08.559
So I chased him down on my bike uh with one hand.
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:13.039
I could never ride my bike with one hand, and I had a flashlight, and I was like, How am I doing this?
00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:14.960
So, like, even stuff like that.
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:17.599
It was just like, here's the guy you've always wanted to be.
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:21.200
It's right, it's and you're going to like save this other guy who's freaking out.
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:31.279
Yeah, and I've I he must I must have scared the hell out of him because he was walking in the center of the road, just like as the crow flies back to his house, and uh and I pulled up on a bike with a flashlight.
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:32.240
Hey, hey.
00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:34.000
Here's your shoes.
00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:39.759
Um, and uh yeah, it just it just showed me like that the the person you've always wanted to be is in there.
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:43.920
This helped you access it, but I got a taste of like, oh, I can I can be this person.
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:47.440
Um and this is at the same time that you're starting therapy.
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:53.599
Yeah, I can't right super recommend going out and getting on antidepressants and trying psychedelics at the same time.
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.319
Probably not the most cogent move, but it worked out for me.
00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:58.319
It like fully lines up for me.
00:18:58.559 --> 00:18:58.799
Okay.
00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:03.440
Well, I've I I I fear other people's mental states and that not working for them.
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:03.839
Yeah.
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:09.200
Uh and uh uh but no, it's it's it was hugely transformative.
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.240
Um I thank mushrooms every day and every time I do them.
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:13.759
Yeah, how often do you do them?
00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:15.440
Uh I microdose pretty frequently.
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:17.359
Uh I don't have like a regimen about it.
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:18.880
I did it twice last week.
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:21.519
Um didn't do it for a month before that.
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:27.599
Uh and then I'll macro trip my macro dose, if you will, uh, you know, once every few months.
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:30.559
Um Will you stay in the city to do that?
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:37.359
Uh I I will, but I tell like Deanna and I love eating mushrooms and then going on like 10 mile walks.
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.200
We'll go we'll walk down through Prospect Park and just like take in nature.
00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:42.880
You gotta be in nature when you trip.
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:44.000
It's hard to do it in the city.
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:46.000
Do people recognize you constantly?
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:52.319
Uh with frequency enough that yeah, when we go out on those walks, I'll get recognized a couple of times, which when it freak you out?
00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:52.559
Yeah.
00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:58.160
Yeah when I'm tripping, it's it's I mean, D I'll always ask after we walk away, I'll be like, was I weird?
00:19:58.240 --> 00:19:58.880
Did I say anything weird?
00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:01.200
And Dan will be like, No, you're perfectly charming.
00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:10.640
And uh so um that I mean that that becomes an issue only uh uh when I'm on mushrooms and when I'm headed to and from therapy on the subway.
00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:17.839
Sometimes I just got out of talking about like my mom or my uh sexual trauma, and I don't want to take a selfie.
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.839
But this is the only time it's ever been an issue.
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:20.480
Yeah.
00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:26.640
I um I I I like to be in nature when I trip and I haven't done it, I haven't done like a macro trip in a long time.
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:29.519
But it's making me think of my best friend.
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:40.160
She had um two kids like quickly in a row, and it's like just so unbelievably effortful to have two kids under two and then get them to the point where they can like wipe their butts or whatever.
00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:43.599
Um and she for the first time has gotten into tripping.
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.240
And it just makes so much sense to me.
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:53.039
And it's so I love I'm loving being a millennial parent, despite all the fascism.
00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:59.920
But other than that, you know, it's like uh so um it's so cool that this is a normal thing for moms to do.
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:06.559
Like, you know, it's um it's helping her uh just having all the things come up.
00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:24.319
When when I I I kind of imagine it like I am a rubber band ball, and the rubber bands are are like thought and behavior patterns, and they just get keep getting strapped on until you're this big quivering, you know, like like ball of systems.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:30.720
And and you know, if I do this, then I have to do this, and you just like future tripping, past tripping, all this stuff.
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:42.640
And then mushrooms or ketamine uh comes through like a hot knife and just cuts all those away and reminds me, like, oh, it's not it's not as complicated as I'm making it.
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:45.359
It's not as dire and horrible as I'm making it.
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:52.319
Uh and no, this isn't the beginning of the end of my career or my life or whatever, as I'm you know, over with enough time.
00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:59.599
I'm just constantly I wish I could do it without it, but thus far I've needed uh plant help in order to you know get.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.039
Back to that baseline, which is where I want to be.
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:03.519
Totally.
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.880
And it also like lets your brain practice being there.
00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:09.119
You know, that's what I think about antidepressants too.
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:19.920
It's like, you know, to do uh to do therapy and have medication, if that's what you need, is so helpful because like the therapy can be more productive because you have the medication, helping your brain like make the space for it.
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:25.039
You know, you are such a thoughtful, reflective gentleman.
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:27.200
Nobody says gentleman anymore.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.799
But like you're a you're really like a gentle guy.
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:37.920
And also, like, I think you you um present the tip of the spear for you is your reflectiveness.
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:44.799
It's not like something that you're like, you know, the way that you talk about how much thought you put into these videos, and then you thought of a new way that you could turn it over.
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.880
And then the thing turns on its ear again and turns on its ear again, you know.
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:54.799
But like, and also you grew up with with all men, um, you know, after age 11.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:23:20.000
But I I feel like you present this alternative masculinity that I don't think it's um a coincidence that you are so popular and that your videos are that you resonate with people and that they want to be in that world of like, yeah, you got a deep voice, but it's like a soft voice, you know, and you're like sort of gentle, gently bringing people through through the process.
00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:25.599
It's I I it's one of my favorite things about what I do is when people stop me on on the street.
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:29.440
The most recent time this happened was yesterday in a restaurant, the server.
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:33.599
Uh this young guy was like, you know, you you got me into cooking.
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:36.240
And I I I couldn't be happier with that.
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:40.960
If that's my if that's the mark that I leave, I uh that's that's amazing.
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:50.640
Um and Yeah, it I think that there's a lot of strength in vulnerability.
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:53.519
I say that while still having a very difficult time being vulnerable.
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:59.359
I I want to be a place where where guys can come to be, and they hate when I even say this, soft.
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:14.640
I think that that we need softness as men because when you're hard all the time, not only is it not good for your you know circulatory system, but also it's it's uh uh it i i it it just makes you always have armor on.
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:17.680
And it turns you into an island.
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:19.039
And so many men are islands.
00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:20.960
They love thinking of themselves as islands.
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:27.680
Like even even people who are uh great providers and and fathers, they're doing it all for other people.
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:37.039
Uh and yeah, I mean, uh it's hard for me to talk about the difficulties of being a man when there's so many other struggles in the world.
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:39.279
It feels like, you know, why are we talking about this?
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:46.559
But given the influences that are out there in the world right now, it's something I think I, you know, I I would love to talk about more.
00:24:46.960 --> 00:25:09.039
Um because I I think when I was younger, when I was, you know, 12 and I was just starting to, you know, uh like girls and they did not like me back, uh, and I was very sad and very angry and very lonely, I I am 99% sure if if all this manosphere shit existed when I was that age, I would have gotten swept up in it.
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:18.640
I think I would have absolutely, because if strong uh presenting men were telling me, you're not the problem isn't in you, it's everyone else.
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:19.759
And I have the answer.
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:21.200
I would probably listen.
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:26.240
How how um seductive is that is that messaging?
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:32.160
That is so seductive, especially to a kid or anybody's like kid brain to be able to blame it on someone else.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:33.759
Yeah, it it's so sick.
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:36.799
And yeah, I can only I can only imagine.
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:45.680
Of course, we had messages and systems, uh, messages with within this same framework, but the way it's available right now, constantly and in your hand, you're right.
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.960
You you could have been um swept up in it.
00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:54.960
And the effort that it takes to unlearn, deprogram, and then become yourself.
00:25:55.039 --> 00:26:07.200
It's like this um moment we're in right now culturally is like setting us back decades because we're gonna have to rebuild the framework and present it to people to know what a normal fucking baseline is.
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:08.640
It's psychotic right now.
00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:13.359
All we have to do is dose everyone in the world with a little bit, mostly America, with mushrooms.
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:14.000
100.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:16.720
Oh, America needs to trip balls for sure.
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:20.720
That should be the one takeaway from this interview is that America needs to be able to trip balls.
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:24.480
That's the feeling of having a kiddo, too, is um, you know, you feel like you're tripping.
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:30.480
And sometimes you are, sometimes you're micro microwing, but um, it's just they're so naturally exploratory.
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:35.359
And I was thinking about this yesterday, is about how, like, you know, when you trip, everything's profound.
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:42.880
If we had just more time and space and our basic needs were met, we would have so much more space to see things as the profound thing that they are.
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:43.119
Yeah.
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:47.359
You know, it's I mean, it really comes back to for me, it's presence.
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:51.359
Like if you're truly present, everything's awesome because this is all there is.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:27:00.000
And that's the thing about having a kiddo, is like, you know, the goal is just to be present with them and then I'm present and I'm like, wow, everything is fucking awesome.
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:05.839
You mentioned Sawyer, um, Sawyer Jacobs, who's your business partner, and a big old Jew.
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:08.880
Um, you know, when I first met you, I was like, yeah.
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:14.960
When I first met you, I was uh a couple years ago, I was like, I thought you were Jewish because you're so sensitive.
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:20.480
And I thought maybe your last name was like Eastern European, and I was calling it Rea for a time.
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:25.519
Um, and I was like, Yeah, it ends with an A, but I I don't know, I just thought you were Jewish, but exotic, yeah.
00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:29.200
But but um uh but you're not.
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:41.680
And you know, sometimes I find with white people who are um not Jewish is that they're like drawn to Jewish people because there's this like, you know, culture of sensitivity and thoughtfulness um that I'm really proud of.
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:44.000
Yeah, like I'm just curious about your relationship with Sawyer.
00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:55.200
If you were just liked his like Jewish, he is like, you know, he's like our age, but David and I laugh that he's like he it's almost like you could picture him being like a 50-year-old Jewish dad in fifth grade.
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:56.160
Wow, yeah.
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:57.359
Is that that's beautiful?
00:27:57.519 --> 00:27:57.920
Is that right?
00:27:58.079 --> 00:27:58.799
Yeah, no, absolutely not.
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:00.720
He's that's he's such a mensch.
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:01.279
I mean, he is.
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:02.319
Oh, he's a true mensch.
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:05.279
And he I'm so lucky that he's my best friend, my business partner.
00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:08.160
I get to be in business with somebody that I trust implicitly.
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.079
It's very rare, it's really wonderful.
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:13.200
And yeah, no, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna come out and say it on the record.
00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:14.160
I love Jews.
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:15.920
Uh I we need it.
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:28.240
I I love Jews because uh beyond the thoughtfulness and the the uh the sort of presence that you're talking about, but also the there's a gr wonderful sense of community and family and tradition.
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:42.799
And I think that's um tradition is something I wish I had more of uh um ritual or or or uh yeah, just just just old actions that uh that bring up that connect you to history.
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:44.079
And I don't have any of that.
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:49.440
Like I came up Presbyterian, I became an atheist in college, like so many people.
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:52.160
Uh and once I got into Reddit, game over.
00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:53.519
I was an atheist all the way through.
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:55.599
Well, Reddit is atheist, cool.
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:07.039
But then I had my uh my big trip, and uh I'm I don't belong to any religion, I have my own experience, and uh, but I'm not an atheist anymore.
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:08.079
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:11.440
Well, thank you so much for sharing yourself with me today.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:14.960
You know, we've um I like kind of didn't contextualize this, but I will in the intro.
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:17.279
But we've gotten to know each other the past couple years, and neighbors.
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.039
We can always we're neighbors and we can always get real real fast, and I love it.
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:25.359
I really I really appreciate it, and I appreciate that you can do that with your guests on this show.
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:29.759
It's a really great show, and I'm so happy for you every time I see a new episode come out.
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:30.240
Thank you.
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:31.440
I'm learning so much from you.
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:36.079
Um, all the joy and just the just thoughtfulness that you put into your channel.
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:38.160
I um really inspires me.
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:39.279
Well, thank you so much.
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:40.160
And you inspire me.
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:41.519
We can keep going back and forth.
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:43.039
You inspire me too.
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:48.799
I want to thank Andrew Ray for coming and joining me today and really opening his heart.
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.160
Um, this has been a solely human production.
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:54.000
This is a StarPix production.
00:29:54.160 --> 00:30:00.480
I want to thank my creative producers, Annika Carlson, David Rookland, and Glennis Mahar, Kelsey Kylie, and Madeline Kim.
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:05.920
I want to thank the people who made this look and sound so good: Kevin Deming, Lexa Krebs, and Nicole Maupin.
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:09.119
I want to thank Raymond Ventura for the graphics and opening musical sting.
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:12.640
And I want to thank the band Don Her for this outro music.
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:19.680
Um, listen, if you like this show, like, subscribe, and join the community wherever you podcast and or on YouTube.
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:22.400
It makes a difference for us to be able to do it.
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:24.960
And do it independently is also the thing.
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.920
And um join my Substack.
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:33.039
That's my newsletter where you can see all the shit that drops in my life and how I can come to you.
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:34.400
Um, that's it, you guys.
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:35.680
Take care of yourselves today.
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:37.119
Uh, get some rest.
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:41.279
We're gonna get through this and sending you love.
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:42.240
Later.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.080
So, my guest today is Andrew Ray, who is the face and creator behind the massively successful YouTube channel Binging with Babish.
00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:14.320
So, I first met him when I was promoting my stand-up special Human Magic, available now on Hulu.
00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:18.719
Um, but by promoting it, I went on his show and ranked pickles.
00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:22.399
And I had so much fun, and he was so lovely that we've since become friends.
00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:25.359
And most recently, Andrew has become a podcast host.
00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:36.880
He has joined the Vox Media Podcast Network, and in collaboration with Eater, he hosts In the Booth with Babish, where he interviews celebrities and chefs, and they make a meal out of chit chat.
00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:44.880
Every episode is structured like a menu of conversation, and his premier episode was with Peabody award-winning chef Alton Brown.
00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:45.759
So come on in.
00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:46.799
It's open.
00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:55.119
So you have one of the most successful YouTube channels on YouTube.
00:00:55.439 --> 00:00:58.560
10 million subscribers for binging with Babish.
00:00:58.960 --> 00:00:59.600
Thank you very much.
00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:03.200
It's it's it's actually a product of what we were talking about before.
00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:06.640
Uh the because I started about 10 years ago.
00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:12.640
And back then you didn't need to pay for engagement, or it wasn't about creating the most engaging thing.
00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:15.040
You just put something out and people would gravitate to it.
00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:15.280
Yep.
00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:17.599
And I was lucky enough to come up in that era.
00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:19.920
You you as well with Chronic Gamer Girl.
00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:25.920
Like that was just like the time when you would make something that you were excited about and it would, it could succeed.
00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:26.480
Yeah.
00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:30.239
And um, like, you know, I I won't, I won't gush, you know what I mean?
00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:34.640
I won't go nuts, but I like do want to say your channel just brings people so much happiness.
00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:42.879
It's so gratifying, but it's not, it's not cheap because you are putting so much love and time into it.
00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:48.799
Um, and you're right, there's like a natural gravitation toward it that is, I mean, it's just fucking brilliant.
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It started with the um you making meals from TV and film.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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And you are a a lover of TV and film.
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So this was combining your two passions.
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Yeah.
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Uh I'm I'm I it took me, you know, 27 years to figure it out.
00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:05.200
I've always been nuts about food and movies.
00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:09.680
And for some reason, took me a w a while to be like, oh, food from movies.
00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:10.879
I wasn't the first one doing it.
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There was a there was a channel on YouTube uh called Feast of Fiction uh that was doing it for a while before me.
00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:18.400
Um, but it was more geared toward kids.
00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:19.919
It was a very, very different format.
00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:24.639
Um and uh yeah, I was deeply depressed.
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I had just finished working on a documentary for a year and a half that went nowhere, and I got paid four grand for editing this feature doc over uh, you know, not uh 18 months.
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And uh it just imploded and I was just so down.
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And I started going to therapy and getting on well butrin, which is you know, giving me a lot of bandwidth and it took me out of the darkness a little bit.
00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:46.000
Yeah.
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I took on more debt uh than I already had, which was so much, way too much, uh, and bought a camera and a light and was just fucking around in my kitchen.
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And uh I was background watching Parks and Wreck, uh, just like one listens to music.
00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:03.840
That's uh uh Pat Parks, Broad City, um, Frasier.
00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:05.120
Those are my background watches.
00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:05.599
Yeah.
00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:10.479
And uh it and the there was a burger cook-off, and I was like, what would that burger taste like?
00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:11.439
And that was that.
00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:12.000
Yeah.
00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:14.159
You talk very openly about mental health.
00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:19.680
And when you were just saying about Well Futrin, I always say there would be no Broad City without Cymbalta.
00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:27.039
I was on antidepressants, but it was uh like it's also for chronic pain from ages 19 to 32.
00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:30.879
And the way that you just said it, that it like expanded your bandwidth, is exactly it, right?
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Like you didn't, it doesn't change things, it just like kind of all there's like all these like clouds taking up space and it like parts them a little bit.
00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:49.520
Um and it's funny how you were in such a low place, and then out of that you found this such an authentic expression of your creativity.
00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:52.560
It raised the floor on how bad I could feel.
00:03:52.800 --> 00:04:06.479
And it's it's funny how we're both over medicated and under medicated at the same time because like so many people who have experienced even acute incidental depression get prescribed antidepressants, which can be good or bad.
00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:16.079
But then there are so many people who are just in the fucking dumps who can't bring themselves out to go and get the thing, the help that they need and then there.
00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:17.839
They also think that's baseline.
00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:18.319
Yeah.
00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:26.240
You know, like so you're from Rochester, New York, and you went to school at Hofstra on Long Island, and I went to um I grew up on Long Island.
00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:34.639
You know, I'm wondering about um like how you your perception of mental health or your like grasp of mental health growing up.
00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:37.839
We're like the same age, we're both from the suburbs of New York, New York City.
00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:40.560
Was that the first time you hitting rock bottom?
00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:42.720
Was that the first time that you were like, oh, I'm depressed.
00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:44.480
This is what depression is, I need therapy.
00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:46.959
It sounded like it all happened at once, the way that you just said it.
00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:48.879
Yeah, definitely of my own volition.
00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:54.480
Uh my mother died when I was 11, and that um obviously wasn't great.
00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:58.800
Uh it sent my dad into a deep, deep depression.
00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:00.160
Um, of course.
00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:01.600
And and do you have siblings?
00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:07.279
Uh yeah, I have an older brother, but he was he's seven years older than me, so he had a life going on.
00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:08.560
Totally in a different phase.
00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:11.519
Yeah, he was he was with us, but he, you know, was building his life.
00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:16.319
And so it was just me and him, and uh we, you know, were at odds.
00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:19.920
And I went to go see a therapist who was an awful therapist.
00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:20.399
Fuck.
00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:26.800
Uh, I remember him telling me uh, because I would have such big emotions that I couldn't go to school or I couldn't interact with people.
00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:31.120
And he would be like, Sometimes you just need to put those emotions in a box.
00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:36.079
Silent generation therapist?
00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:36.639
What is this?
00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:37.920
Oh my God.
00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:41.439
And uh so that was detrimental, I'd say.
00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:46.480
Uh I only went to him for about a year and my dad pulled me out for reasons I can't remember.
00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:51.360
Um, and uh I didn't touch it since then.
00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:52.959
And um Right, that makes sense.
00:05:53.199 --> 00:06:01.519
I was also diagnosed ADHD without being treated for it because basically my my mom and dad got me tested when I was like nine, tested positive.
00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:05.120
She uh wanted to do it on her own.
00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:06.480
She didn't want to medicate me at the time.
00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:08.560
It was just like Ritalin or 100.
00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:10.399
And she didn't want to do that.
00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:17.600
And uh she was apparently doing a very good job, I don't really remember, um, doing a very good job of just like finding systems that worked for my brain.
00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:20.000
And then when she died, obviously that all went out the window.
00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:25.600
And my father's always been a disciplinarian, so that obviously we butted heads on that.
00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:47.040
Uh and uh yeah, mental health always felt and was always treated like a a um either a luxury that you know only the the the very wealthy who are caught up in their money problems uh have, or people who are very sick who really, really need it.
00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:52.800
It wasn't for people who are just trying to get through life with their existing traumas and stuff.
00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:57.360
Um I like to say that uh very few people need therapy, but everybody could use therapy.
00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:00.240
Um not very few people.
00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:03.040
Some people need therapy, but everybody could use therapy.
00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:06.000
Uh and so yeah, it took me a long time to figure that out.
00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:07.759
I was just gutting it out for the longest time.
00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:08.160
Wow.
00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:09.680
And that was the beginning of the change.
00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:10.959
It was that and mushrooms.
00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:13.199
I don't know if we can talk about mushrooms on sure.
00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:14.000
Oh, I figured.
00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.920
And then also I didn't I didn't know that your mother passed away when you were a kid.
00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:18.879
I did not know that.
00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:22.560
Yeah, no, it was it was uh she it was her third bat with cancer.
00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:28.879
Uh so everybody else kind of saw it coming, but I was eleven, so I was just like, oh, it's her third round, she's got this.
00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:29.279
Right.
00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:35.279
And uh uh so it was actually extremely shocking when they came downstairs and told me that she had just died.
00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:37.360
And you were 11 and your brother's 18.
00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:38.399
So yeah, he's out of the house.
00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:43.920
Yeah, yeah, he was in college and um uh Which is all I mean, that's like so hard too.
00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:47.600
Yeah, no, he was going through it on in his own way, and he was like, Where was he at?
00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:51.199
He was so he went to Rochester Institute, you know, pretty nearby.
00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:55.199
And um, you know, I he did the exact same thing I would have done, which is turn inward.
00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:56.800
That's what we were always taught to do.
00:07:57.360 --> 00:07:58.160
And two boys, yeah.
00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:04.079
Yeah, two boys, and we've always been to anytime things are tough, we're taught to, you know, buck up and just deal with it.
00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:04.560
Yeah.
00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:11.279
And um, yeah, it's I still have a lot of issues getting over that that feeling of like, oh, you're not supposed to feel like this.
00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:11.920
Totally.
00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:22.639
You're supposed to, you know, be strong, you're supposed to be like capable, and and you gotta go, you know, pay this person$500 a week to talk to them.
00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:31.920
Just to like it, it it it doesn't make sense to my you know, simple man mind that I was given from an early age.
00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:33.679
But as I'm getting older, I'm getting better with it.
00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:40.320
And then the other thing that just lit up for me is that you said your mom liked systems, which is reminding me of your channel.
00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:42.399
And now you like organize it into systems.
00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:43.120
You know what I mean?
00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:51.759
That your, you know, production is so robust and the team also, it's just um, it's just making me think about like the systems that you employ.
00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:52.559
That's really funny.
00:08:52.639 --> 00:09:12.080
And it sounds like without medication, she was like really dedicated to practicing it, which is like so um, so clearly what your work is so clearly like the effort of your work, you know, so much practice and systems put in place and trying it again and again and again and again until you get a perfect.
00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:13.279
I've never thought of that.
00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:15.120
That's actually that's really interesting.
00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:20.159
Um, and it's it's cool, it's cool to think about it that way because I'm going off hearsay.
00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:29.440
I'm going off what people tell me because I've I've obviously a lot of people that I've met that um that uh who've lost parents around that age, they don't remember anything before that.
00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:37.039
And I'm I I have little fits and starts, little glimmers of like particularly bad moments usually that wedge themselves in my brain.
00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:38.879
But I don't remember what her voice sounds like.
00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:43.039
I I I don't remember many of the things that she did.
00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:45.200
It's more things that people have told me.
00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:52.639
So to know that it's imprinted on me in some way outside of my conscious identity, that's actually that's really cool to think about.
00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:59.440
And also, like, I'm not surprised that you are drawn to mushrooms because it is such a like mothering substance, you know.
00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:04.720
And it also like it'll bring these things up that you can't like think of from here.
00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:05.360
You know what I mean?
00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:08.320
It has to like sort of like blossom from behind.
00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:10.080
So that started when you were.
00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:13.840
So first of all, I didn't okay, there's like two other things I want to say, but I'm gonna hold them for here.
00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:17.679
I didn't realize that you were it was only 10 years ago that you started the channel.
00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:19.360
I thought it was more like 14 or 15.
00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:22.000
No, no, it was um back in 2016.
00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:23.600
That is incredible.
00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:27.600
You have got gained so much success in this time.
00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:31.440
And like Broad City was happening before it in LOL Chronic Gamer Girl.
00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:32.559
Thank you for knowing it.
00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:33.840
Uh we love it.
00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:39.440
But um, yeah, that is it, it like really popped off in such a short amount of time.
00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:52.559
Um it I mean, uh, it feels weird saying this, but you know, for food YouTubers uh or any but any YouTubers that could self-produce, uh, if COVID were kind of the Halcyon days, because you know, I I I didn't stop.
00:10:52.799 --> 00:11:01.360
I baby, I was working harder than I have ever worked during COVID because all I had to do was be in the house and keep making videos is the only way I could stay sane.
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:06.399
So like I remember one month I got 260,000 subscribers in a month.
00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:06.720
Wow.
00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:09.039
Uh because everybody was making sourdough.
00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:10.639
And uh right.
00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:12.240
Oh my God.
00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:13.840
Wow, that's so cool.
00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:22.639
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00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:59.519
Hi, just stepping in to interrupt myself here with my ground news segment for It's Open.
00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:17.279
So, Ground News is a website and an app that aggregates articles from all around the world and then organizes them into left, center, and right leaning biases to make it easy for you to have media literacy in this time when the news is just, I mean, a tsunami of nonsense.
00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:23.519
Ground news will also tell you where articles are coming from and whether or not it is original or recycled reporting.
00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:29.840
You know, I feel like I'm in control and I have my hands on the steering wheel of my own news consumption rather than being a pawn in someone else's game.
00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:41.840
So I've been absolutely uh disturbed by um the instability in the economy in the US and around the world uh in the past couple of years since Trump took office.
00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:44.080
And I want to see what's going on in trade.
00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:46.080
So let's look at the left-leaning sources.
00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:46.720
U.S.
00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:53.759
Appeals Court blocks Trump admin from enacting new plans to slash consumer watchdog staff.
00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:55.600
So US Appeals Court blocked it.
00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:56.080
Great.
00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:58.480
Thanks, US Appeals Court, whatever.
00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:08.159
So join me in sifting through the crazy news and making sense of it by going to groundnews.com forward slash open.
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That's ground, g-r-o-uns.com forward slash open for it's open with Lana Glazer for 40% off the vantage plan.
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You can find the direct link to this opportunity to get 40% off the vantage plan in the episode description on every platform you watch and listen to.
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It's open.
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Pausing your regularly scheduled programming to offer you a great discount on a great product.
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This is lightweight.
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Here's another product.
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You know what I'm talking about?
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And that's a brag that I go to the gym.
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Um and I'm just loving it.
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It's uh it's feeling good in my body.
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Oh, check this out.
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Yeah, that's nice.
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00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:14.799
So you're saying after this like doc, you fell into depression.
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.799
And this is when you were like, I gotta just, I gotta just make this video for fun, right?
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:21.039
And you started therapy, but mushrooms as well.
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:21.679
Yes.
00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:24.159
Uh so this is before I made the first video.
00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:26.960
I definitely did mushrooms before uh the first video.
00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:32.159
I was probably going to therapy for like six months before I, you know, managed to come up.
00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:33.519
Got it, got it.
00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:42.799
Um and uh I was going to my uh old uh bosses, they every year they would have a big birthday blowout in uh Montauk.
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:47.039
And I they were said they were gonna do mushrooms, and I was like, oh, I don't know.
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:48.799
I'm not sure if I'm into that.
00:16:49.039 --> 00:17:07.759
And I so when I say you wouldn't have recognized me back then, I mean it both physically because I had some hair and no beard and zero confidence and zero ability to carry a conversation uh without constantly just like judging everything was coming out of my mouth, in other words, not be able to hold a conversation.
00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:14.960
Um, and then I did the mushrooms and I got a glimpse into oh my god, this is the person I've always wanted to be.
00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:16.880
I was making people laugh.
00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:24.799
I the one guy had a freak out on the mushrooms, and he because uh this this really drunk cop just walked into the house.
00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.440
Oh, oh well, welcome to Long Island.
00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:30.240
This really drunk cop just walked into my house.
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:31.359
Yeah, that's Long Island.
00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:32.640
Blackout dude came in.
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:34.880
I mean, it was a little, you know, cottage, like a rental thing.
00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:37.119
And uh he just walked in and sat down.
00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:38.559
He's like, You're gonna make me a drink?
00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:40.640
And we're like, So scary in his uniform.
00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:42.640
And no, no, he was plain clothes.
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:44.160
We asked him, What do you so what do you do?
00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:46.880
And he was like, I'm I'm an off-duty uh officer.
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:50.480
And one guy I'm professionally a drunk off-duty officer.
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:52.559
Well, you know, yeah, yeah.
00:17:52.799 --> 00:18:01.359
But then one guy who uh the guy who brought the mushrooms literally stood up like the Manchurian candidate and just walked out because he was like, No, I'm not doing this.
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:04.960
And he didn't bring his shoes and he didn't bring his stuff.
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:08.559
So I chased him down on my bike uh with one hand.
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:13.039
I could never ride my bike with one hand, and I had a flashlight, and I was like, How am I doing this?
00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:14.960
So, like, even stuff like that.
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:17.599
It was just like, here's the guy you've always wanted to be.
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:21.200
It's right, it's and you're going to like save this other guy who's freaking out.
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:31.279
Yeah, and I've I he must I must have scared the hell out of him because he was walking in the center of the road, just like as the crow flies back to his house, and uh and I pulled up on a bike with a flashlight.
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:32.240
Hey, hey.
00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:34.000
Here's your shoes.
00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:39.759
Um, and uh yeah, it just it just showed me like that the the person you've always wanted to be is in there.
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:43.920
This helped you access it, but I got a taste of like, oh, I can I can be this person.
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:47.440
Um and this is at the same time that you're starting therapy.
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:53.599
Yeah, I can't right super recommend going out and getting on antidepressants and trying psychedelics at the same time.
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.319
Probably not the most cogent move, but it worked out for me.
00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:58.319
It like fully lines up for me.
00:18:58.559 --> 00:18:58.799
Okay.
00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:03.440
Well, I've I I I fear other people's mental states and that not working for them.
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:03.839
Yeah.
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:09.200
Uh and uh uh but no, it's it's it was hugely transformative.
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.240
Um I thank mushrooms every day and every time I do them.
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:13.759
Yeah, how often do you do them?
00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:15.440
Uh I microdose pretty frequently.
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:17.359
Uh I don't have like a regimen about it.
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:18.880
I did it twice last week.
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:21.519
Um didn't do it for a month before that.
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:27.599
Uh and then I'll macro trip my macro dose, if you will, uh, you know, once every few months.
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:30.559
Um Will you stay in the city to do that?
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:37.359
Uh I I will, but I tell like Deanna and I love eating mushrooms and then going on like 10 mile walks.
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.200
We'll go we'll walk down through Prospect Park and just like take in nature.
00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:42.880
You gotta be in nature when you trip.
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:44.000
It's hard to do it in the city.
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:46.000
Do people recognize you constantly?
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:52.319
Uh with frequency enough that yeah, when we go out on those walks, I'll get recognized a couple of times, which when it freak you out?
00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:52.559
Yeah.
00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:58.160
Yeah when I'm tripping, it's it's I mean, D I'll always ask after we walk away, I'll be like, was I weird?
00:19:58.240 --> 00:19:58.880
Did I say anything weird?
00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:01.200
And Dan will be like, No, you're perfectly charming.
00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:10.640
And uh so um that I mean that that becomes an issue only uh uh when I'm on mushrooms and when I'm headed to and from therapy on the subway.
00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:17.839
Sometimes I just got out of talking about like my mom or my uh sexual trauma, and I don't want to take a selfie.
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.839
But this is the only time it's ever been an issue.
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:20.480
Yeah.
00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:26.640
I um I I I like to be in nature when I trip and I haven't done it, I haven't done like a macro trip in a long time.
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:29.519
But it's making me think of my best friend.
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:40.160
She had um two kids like quickly in a row, and it's like just so unbelievably effortful to have two kids under two and then get them to the point where they can like wipe their butts or whatever.
00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:43.599
Um and she for the first time has gotten into tripping.
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.240
And it just makes so much sense to me.
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:53.039
And it's so I love I'm loving being a millennial parent, despite all the fascism.
00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:59.920
But other than that, you know, it's like uh so um it's so cool that this is a normal thing for moms to do.
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:06.559
Like, you know, it's um it's helping her uh just having all the things come up.
00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:24.319
When when I I I kind of imagine it like I am a rubber band ball, and the rubber bands are are like thought and behavior patterns, and they just get keep getting strapped on until you're this big quivering, you know, like like ball of systems.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:30.720
And and you know, if I do this, then I have to do this, and you just like future tripping, past tripping, all this stuff.
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:42.640
And then mushrooms or ketamine uh comes through like a hot knife and just cuts all those away and reminds me, like, oh, it's not it's not as complicated as I'm making it.
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:45.359
It's not as dire and horrible as I'm making it.
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:52.319
Uh and no, this isn't the beginning of the end of my career or my life or whatever, as I'm you know, over with enough time.
00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:59.599
I'm just constantly I wish I could do it without it, but thus far I've needed uh plant help in order to you know get.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.039
Back to that baseline, which is where I want to be.
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:03.519
Totally.
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.880
And it also like lets your brain practice being there.
00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:09.119
You know, that's what I think about antidepressants too.
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:19.920
It's like, you know, to do uh to do therapy and have medication, if that's what you need, is so helpful because like the therapy can be more productive because you have the medication, helping your brain like make the space for it.
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:25.039
You know, you are such a thoughtful, reflective gentleman.
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:27.200
Nobody says gentleman anymore.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.799
But like you're a you're really like a gentle guy.
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:37.920
And also, like, I think you you um present the tip of the spear for you is your reflectiveness.
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:44.799
It's not like something that you're like, you know, the way that you talk about how much thought you put into these videos, and then you thought of a new way that you could turn it over.
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.880
And then the thing turns on its ear again and turns on its ear again, you know.
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:54.799
But like, and also you grew up with with all men, um, you know, after age 11.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:23:20.000
But I I feel like you present this alternative masculinity that I don't think it's um a coincidence that you are so popular and that your videos are that you resonate with people and that they want to be in that world of like, yeah, you got a deep voice, but it's like a soft voice, you know, and you're like sort of gentle, gently bringing people through through the process.
00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:25.599
It's I I it's one of my favorite things about what I do is when people stop me on on the street.
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:29.440
The most recent time this happened was yesterday in a restaurant, the server.
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:33.599
Uh this young guy was like, you know, you you got me into cooking.
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:36.240
And I I I couldn't be happier with that.
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:40.960
If that's my if that's the mark that I leave, I uh that's that's amazing.
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:50.640
Um and Yeah, it I think that there's a lot of strength in vulnerability.
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:53.519
I say that while still having a very difficult time being vulnerable.
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:59.359
I I want to be a place where where guys can come to be, and they hate when I even say this, soft.
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:14.640
I think that that we need softness as men because when you're hard all the time, not only is it not good for your you know circulatory system, but also it's it's uh uh it i i it it just makes you always have armor on.
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:17.680
And it turns you into an island.
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:19.039
And so many men are islands.
00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:20.960
They love thinking of themselves as islands.
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:27.680
Like even even people who are uh great providers and and fathers, they're doing it all for other people.
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:37.039
Uh and yeah, I mean, uh it's hard for me to talk about the difficulties of being a man when there's so many other struggles in the world.
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:39.279
It feels like, you know, why are we talking about this?
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:46.559
But given the influences that are out there in the world right now, it's something I think I, you know, I I would love to talk about more.
00:24:46.960 --> 00:25:09.039
Um because I I think when I was younger, when I was, you know, 12 and I was just starting to, you know, uh like girls and they did not like me back, uh, and I was very sad and very angry and very lonely, I I am 99% sure if if all this manosphere shit existed when I was that age, I would have gotten swept up in it.
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:18.640
I think I would have absolutely, because if strong uh presenting men were telling me, you're not the problem isn't in you, it's everyone else.
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:19.759
And I have the answer.
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:21.200
I would probably listen.
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:26.240
How how um seductive is that is that messaging?
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:32.160
That is so seductive, especially to a kid or anybody's like kid brain to be able to blame it on someone else.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:33.759
Yeah, it it's so sick.
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:36.799
And yeah, I can only I can only imagine.
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:45.680
Of course, we had messages and systems, uh, messages with within this same framework, but the way it's available right now, constantly and in your hand, you're right.
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.960
You you could have been um swept up in it.
00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:54.960
And the effort that it takes to unlearn, deprogram, and then become yourself.
00:25:55.039 --> 00:26:07.200
It's like this um moment we're in right now culturally is like setting us back decades because we're gonna have to rebuild the framework and present it to people to know what a normal fucking baseline is.
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:08.640
It's psychotic right now.
00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:13.359
All we have to do is dose everyone in the world with a little bit, mostly America, with mushrooms.
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:14.000
100.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:16.720
Oh, America needs to trip balls for sure.
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:20.720
That should be the one takeaway from this interview is that America needs to be able to trip balls.
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:24.480
That's the feeling of having a kiddo, too, is um, you know, you feel like you're tripping.
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:30.480
And sometimes you are, sometimes you're micro microwing, but um, it's just they're so naturally exploratory.
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:35.359
And I was thinking about this yesterday, is about how, like, you know, when you trip, everything's profound.
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:42.880
If we had just more time and space and our basic needs were met, we would have so much more space to see things as the profound thing that they are.
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:43.119
Yeah.
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:47.359
You know, it's I mean, it really comes back to for me, it's presence.
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:51.359
Like if you're truly present, everything's awesome because this is all there is.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:27:00.000
And that's the thing about having a kiddo, is like, you know, the goal is just to be present with them and then I'm present and I'm like, wow, everything is fucking awesome.
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:05.839
You mentioned Sawyer, um, Sawyer Jacobs, who's your business partner, and a big old Jew.
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:08.880
Um, you know, when I first met you, I was like, yeah.
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:14.960
When I first met you, I was uh a couple years ago, I was like, I thought you were Jewish because you're so sensitive.
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:20.480
And I thought maybe your last name was like Eastern European, and I was calling it Rea for a time.
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:25.519
Um, and I was like, Yeah, it ends with an A, but I I don't know, I just thought you were Jewish, but exotic, yeah.
00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:29.200
But but um uh but you're not.
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:41.680
And you know, sometimes I find with white people who are um not Jewish is that they're like drawn to Jewish people because there's this like, you know, culture of sensitivity and thoughtfulness um that I'm really proud of.
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:44.000
Yeah, like I'm just curious about your relationship with Sawyer.
00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:55.200
If you were just liked his like Jewish, he is like, you know, he's like our age, but David and I laugh that he's like he it's almost like you could picture him being like a 50-year-old Jewish dad in fifth grade.
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:56.160
Wow, yeah.
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:57.359
Is that that's beautiful?
00:27:57.519 --> 00:27:57.920
Is that right?
00:27:58.079 --> 00:27:58.799
Yeah, no, absolutely not.
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:00.720
He's that's he's such a mensch.
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:01.279
I mean, he is.
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:02.319
Oh, he's a true mensch.
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:05.279
And he I'm so lucky that he's my best friend, my business partner.
00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:08.160
I get to be in business with somebody that I trust implicitly.
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.079
It's very rare, it's really wonderful.
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:13.200
And yeah, no, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna come out and say it on the record.
00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:14.160
I love Jews.
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:15.920
Uh I we need it.
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:28.240
I I love Jews because uh beyond the thoughtfulness and the the uh the sort of presence that you're talking about, but also the there's a gr wonderful sense of community and family and tradition.
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:42.799
And I think that's um tradition is something I wish I had more of uh um ritual or or or uh yeah, just just just old actions that uh that bring up that connect you to history.
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:44.079
And I don't have any of that.
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:49.440
Like I came up Presbyterian, I became an atheist in college, like so many people.
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:52.160
Uh and once I got into Reddit, game over.
00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:53.519
I was an atheist all the way through.
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:55.599
Well, Reddit is atheist, cool.
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:07.039
But then I had my uh my big trip, and uh I'm I don't belong to any religion, I have my own experience, and uh, but I'm not an atheist anymore.
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:08.079
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:11.440
Well, thank you so much for sharing yourself with me today.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:14.960
You know, we've um I like kind of didn't contextualize this, but I will in the intro.
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:17.279
But we've gotten to know each other the past couple years, and neighbors.
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.039
We can always we're neighbors and we can always get real real fast, and I love it.
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:25.359
I really I really appreciate it, and I appreciate that you can do that with your guests on this show.
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:29.759
It's a really great show, and I'm so happy for you every time I see a new episode come out.
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:30.240
Thank you.
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:31.440
I'm learning so much from you.
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:36.079
Um, all the joy and just the just thoughtfulness that you put into your channel.
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:38.160
I um really inspires me.
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:39.279
Well, thank you so much.
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:40.160
And you inspire me.
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:41.519
We can keep going back and forth.
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:43.039
You inspire me too.
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:48.799
I want to thank Andrew Ray for coming and joining me today and really opening his heart.
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.160
Um, this has been a solely human production.
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:54.000
This is a StarPix production.
00:29:54.160 --> 00:30:00.480
I want to thank my creative producers, Annika Carlson, David Rookland, and Glennis Mahar, Kelsey Kylie, and Madeline Kim.
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:05.920
I want to thank the people who made this look and sound so good: Kevin Deming, Lexa Krebs, and Nicole Maupin.
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:09.119
I want to thank Raymond Ventura for the graphics and opening musical sting.
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:12.640
And I want to thank the band Don Her for this outro music.
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:19.680
Um, listen, if you like this show, like, subscribe, and join the community wherever you podcast and or on YouTube.
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:22.400
It makes a difference for us to be able to do it.
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:24.960
And do it independently is also the thing.
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.920
And um join my Substack.
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:33.039
That's my newsletter where you can see all the shit that drops in my life and how I can come to you.
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:34.400
Um, that's it, you guys.
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:35.680
Take care of yourselves today.
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:37.119
Uh, get some rest.
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:41.279
We're gonna get through this and sending you love.
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:42.240
Later.
