Tasks Before Apps: Dr. Monica Burns on AI Power Tools, Ethical EdTech & Student Agency

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Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
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podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
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Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
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and let's integrate this. Welcome to the Integrate
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This EdTech podcast. We are very pleased today
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to have Dr. Monica Burns joining us on the podcast.
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Dr. Monica Burns is an EdTech and curriculum
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consultant, author of EdTech Essentials, 12 Strategies
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for Every Classroom in the Age of AI, a second
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edition, and former New York City public school
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teacher. She works with schools and organizations
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around the world to support pre -K through 20
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educators with thoughtful technology integration.
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Monica's website, classtechtips .com and Easy
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Ed Tech podcast help educators place tasks before
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apps by promoting deeper learning with technology.
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Welcome, Monica. Very happy to have you here
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today. Excited to be with you all. Let's go back
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to the beginning if we can. You know, we mentioned
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that you worked in the New York City public school
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system. What was it that was the turning point
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for you from that classroom teaching setting
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into becoming a nationally recognized voice in
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EdTech? Was there a single moment that you can
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remember or just kind of what led into that?
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Yeah, well, you know, I'm still based here on
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the East Coast and love my time in the classroom
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and started off in a really traditional environment
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overhead projector chalk and a chalkboard right
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all those things and we went one -to -one with
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iPad pretty early on and so that you weren't
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the first school weren't the first classroom
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even in New York City, you know to do that but
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pretty early on and Apple education based in
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New York, their team in New York at least, had
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reached out to me and asked if I could come and
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speak at an event that they were having in New
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York for other teachers. It was just like a random
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weekday after school. They said, oh, if you can
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come, we've got people signed up. We'd love to
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hear about. what you're doing in your classroom.
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And so I showed up and those few teachers were
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really a few hundred. And I kind of got the vibe
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from them that if they had told me it was a few
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hundred, they were afraid I weren't going to
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come. But I had no public speaking experience,
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no theater experience, no jumping on a stage
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experience. And just kind of got up there to
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the podium and plugged in my iPad and moved through
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my little keynote presentation with some of my
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observations of what was working well with my
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group of fifth graders. And that's when people
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started to ask like, Can we follow you on Twitter?
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What's your blog? What's this? What's this? And
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questions I didn't have the answer to at the
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time. And so a few months later, in 2012, I started
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classtechtips .com, which is my blog. And I've
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been sharing pretty consistently there ever since.
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And I started my Easy Ed Tech podcast in 2019,
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March of 2019. So just about six years now. And
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it's been a wild ride of having an opportunity
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to shift from full time in the classroom to traveling
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around and working with educators internationally
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here in the U .S. And I just hit my 50th state
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speaking at the KISTI conference in Kentucky
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this past March. Wow, that's pretty amazing.
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Like, you know, to think about that journey that
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you have taken, you know, like from being that,
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you know, like you talked about that traditional
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classroom. environment where you know you first
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get your start and then to think where it's now
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gone in the last decade or so. You know I know
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you just mentioned that you visited all 50 states.
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That's fantastic. That's really really cool.
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It reminds me of this summer. My kids are big
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fans of Ryan Trahan and he's traveling 50 states
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and 50 days. So that's kind of like what I'm
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picturing as you're moving around this journey
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too, right? So shout out to Ryan if you're listening.
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That's awesome. We would love to have you on
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too. But, you know, when you get out and you
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get to meet with teachers, you know, what do
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you think really resonates with them when you
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get a chance to work with them as far as, you
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know, the tech tools in the classroom? And what
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do you think they most take away from your presentations
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and your time with them? Yeah, I mean, I think
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my goal is always to make things super actionable,
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right? As an educator, I've sat and attended
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plenty of great professional learning that was
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really focused on big ideas. And it's interesting,
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but not always relevant to my everyday practice.
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And I really want to make sure everyone feels
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like their time is used really wisely when we're
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together. And that's always my goal. And so I
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try and share things that are quick wins that
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might include more right of a heavy lift for
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someone who's ready. That can help address a
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specific pain point that I'm hearing generally
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from educators or that I'm hearing from the room
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right that I'm in. And that's something that
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is a a core value for me and making sure that
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the work that I do really feels relevant and
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actionable for educators. So earlier this month,
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just a couple of weeks ago, I was working with
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a group of educators outside of Des Moines, and
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we were looking at a few different things, a
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few different themes from the new edition of
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my book, EdTech Essentials. And one of them was
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around generating content with the help of some
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AI tools. And we were looking at tools that help
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you create images. Like you've got your vocab
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list today, right? Here's a couple quick ways
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to make some engaging images that include your
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school mascot, right? Or for something that's
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gonna get kids to remember that vocab word a
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little bit better. And here's, you know, a quick
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tip for how to cite these images with MLA. great
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recommendations. So in that kind of instance,
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for someone who might take kind of all of those
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tips together, I can make images, I can connect
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to vocab, I can say images, like that's three,
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you know, things that they could do right away.
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Or maybe for someone who's like, yeah, that's
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old news, I've been using Adobe Firefly or Canva
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for two years now to make images, or I already
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have a great vocab routine. But even if I'm not
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ready to talk about AI generated content with
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my students, I really I really do want to put
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a citation at the bottom of my teacher's slide
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deck. That way I'm modeling some best practices
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and some transparency for them. So I sometimes
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compare it to when we watch a Disney movie and
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we laugh at different things, depending on what
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we're coming into with it, or we watch something
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a second time and we maybe catch a different
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joke or reference. Kind of same thing goes there.
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I want to make sure that even for a group where
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we have a really set focus for a professional
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learning time together, there are some layers
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of takeaways for them that make it feel valuable
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and worth their time. Yeah, and it's if we could
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look at AI for a second here too, like in regard
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to chat GPT, you know, and just AI in general,
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one of the things that in a recent webinar that
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you did with that was titled Power Tools for
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the Classroom that in you talk a little bit about
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healthy hesitation. So I think like you mentioned
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pain points. Obviously, you are a pain point
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for many right now for any of reasons, because
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you know, not sure quite how to approach that.
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So when we look at healthy hesitation, that concept,
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what do you what would you recommend? And in
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maybe kind of referencing back to that webinar,
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what three features? What things do you think
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are worth educators' time when they're starting
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to use a tool like ChatGPT? Yeah, and I think
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it's really important to acknowledge what everyone's
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big feelings are, right? Coming into a conversation
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with AI, for lack of another way of putting it,
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right? And I know that I hold a couple different
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big feelings that might feel like they're competing
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against one another at the same time, right?
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hesitation that's there, I think is important
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to acknowledge and validate. I know when I'm
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working with groups of educators, it's something
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that I might not lead with in the first two minutes,
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but within a few, maybe 20 minutes or so, we're
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really acknowledging the fact that there's hallucinations
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with chat GPT, that these models are trained
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in ways. That may intentionally or unintentionally
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scale your bias that's present in the materials
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that they've learned on one thing i was just
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with the school in new york and late may and
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it was one of the first times that i had a few
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people really follow up with me when i mentioned
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the environmental impact so it's something i've
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mentioned for a while now just like a lot of
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our tech use but particularly with generative
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ai right i was. I've found really over the past
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six months or so more people are curious about
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that or hearing it not just when I'm planting
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the seed, but when other people are wrenching
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it too and want to talk about what that looks
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like with water consumption and cooling servers
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and kind of all the things. In this particular
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webinar that you referenced, my role on the panel
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was to share some updates from Chachi PT that
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I thought were really relevant for this group
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of educators. One of them that I love is the
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ability to use voice and not just the voice like
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talking back and forth to a smart home device
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where you talk with a voice and you hear an AI
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generated voice. That's nice, but not my personal
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favorite workflow. I really love the dictation
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feature that's now built into Chachi PT. You
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see it in Gemini, you see it in a couple others,
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but it's gotten a lot stronger recently. I sometimes
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joke that my Long Island accent and vowels, right,
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it still is able to work with that while it's
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doing the dictation. But it's just a great way.
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to skip what might feel intimidating for someone
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who hasn't spent a lot of time with prompt generation
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but still has plenty to say. So you can kind
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of do a brain dump. Like, here's all the things
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I want to put in this email. Here's all the things
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I want to include in this lesson I'm teaching
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next week. And you're just kind of spitting it
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all out. You don't have to worry about organizing
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your sentences. You can kind of add in fragments
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as you're talking. And then the chat. GPT will
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take that, transcribe it, and now you've got
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your set of instructions that you're giving to
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this tool. So if you've used Chatbots before,
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ChatGPT in particular, and you've done a lot
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of reply to refine is kind of how I describe
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it, right? Like, okay, more of this or less of
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this, or I forgot to say this, right? Here you
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can kind of front load a lot more without feeling
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like you're typing too much or writing a whole
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paragraph. So that's one of the features, probably
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my favorite. It's a big part of my personal workflow,
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so I love to demo it. It's available in the free
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and the plus version. The only way you wouldn't
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be able to access it is if you're doing the demo
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where you don't log in at all. You won't see
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that button there in most cases. Um, and then
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the other features I shared, one had to do with
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the library feature. So that's also one that's
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in the free version where it now will collect
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all of your media output. So if you've created
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images, it just organizes a little bit better.
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And then the projects, um, which is a paid feature,
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I believe still, you know, sometimes these things
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evolve before I can double check. And so for
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that, it's nice because instead of creating a
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custom GPT, which might feel a little intimidating,
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here you're basically defining what's important
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to you in a project. I have one for email writing,
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for example, where I say, I always like to start
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emails this way. I always like to end emails
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this way. I don't use this sort of wording. Like
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here's some examples of emails that I've written
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that are true to my voice. And now if I say,
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hey, write a check in email with this person
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about X, Y, and Z, I'm not putting anything personal
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or private in there, but it surely is saving
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me a lot of time of at least getting my skeleton
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of an email together that I can further customize
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once I copy and paste it into my inbox. No, that
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sounds like a really interesting way to use that
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and not one that I've done I've used the projects
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and chat GPT But mostly is is like an alternative.
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I think to like notebook LL Now where I just
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put my resources and things in there and then
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I interact with it But I really like what you're
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talking about here Which kind of leads me into
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this next question here because you're really
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talking about a task that you have a specific
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purpose for Right, and then you're aligning the
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best tool to help you with that particular task.
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And to me, it kind of is reminiscent of being
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in the classroom and starting with learning goals
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before you're adding in that tech tool. And you
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even in your intro called it tasks before apps.
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Can you just kind of elaborate on what you mean
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by that? Yeah, so tasks before apps is a phrase
00:14:10.269 --> 00:14:14.759
I started using. alongside the presentations
00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:17.940
I still do now, which are the listicles of favorite
00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:19.980
tools. I just did one in a group in Arkansas
00:14:19.980 --> 00:14:23.399
last week, where it was 15 new AI tools. And
00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:26.480
I always start the same way, you know, with that
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:29.500
task before apps reminder, like what's our purpose
00:14:29.500 --> 00:14:32.740
here? What's our goal? What are we trying to
00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:35.399
accomplish? And then that reminder that I might
00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:39.090
give you this list. 15 tools that I think are
00:14:39.090 --> 00:14:42.149
new and noteworthy, but I really don't want you
00:14:42.149 --> 00:14:44.809
to use all of them. Like, I don't even want you
00:14:44.809 --> 00:14:48.649
to remember all 15 of them. I just want you to
00:14:48.649 --> 00:14:51.730
add maybe one or two to your tool belt that are
00:14:51.730 --> 00:14:53.990
relevant to your everyday practice, coming back
00:14:53.990 --> 00:14:57.370
to that actionable piece, and then maybe recommend
00:14:57.370 --> 00:15:00.759
one or two to a colleague who mention something
00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:03.200
to you casually or formally, right, that they
00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:05.519
need or are looking for a little bit more support
00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:08.879
with. So that idea of saying, what are my goals,
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:11.519
right, for the first month of school? What's
00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:15.340
my goal for this unit of study? Is there a tech
00:15:15.340 --> 00:15:18.059
tool that can help me accomplish that goal or
00:15:18.059 --> 00:15:21.399
do something better? And when I say better, I
00:15:21.399 --> 00:15:23.779
don't mean that what we were doing before is
00:15:23.779 --> 00:15:26.720
bad, right, but better in the fact that I can
00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:29.649
reach that other particular student who I couldn't
00:15:29.649 --> 00:15:32.789
quite reach before, or I can create an experience
00:15:32.789 --> 00:15:35.350
that's more authentic to this small group, right?
00:15:35.429 --> 00:15:39.250
So just really scaling our impact a bit more.
00:15:41.110 --> 00:15:45.450
Yeah, and if one thing that if we could take
00:15:45.450 --> 00:15:50.990
a look at like AI tools, one of the things that
00:15:50.990 --> 00:15:55.450
aside from, you know, looking at Is the application
00:15:55.450 --> 00:15:59.250
going to actually help me achieve my goal? Another
00:15:59.250 --> 00:16:03.450
element that teachers have to consider is the
00:16:03.450 --> 00:16:07.110
responsible use of it. And so is it going to
00:16:07.110 --> 00:16:09.909
be effective? But then there's also these ethical
00:16:09.909 --> 00:16:13.950
implications and that, you know, we have data
00:16:13.950 --> 00:16:17.350
privacy. We have had privacy issues with EdTech
00:16:17.350 --> 00:16:21.029
tools in general. But then, you know, and vetting
00:16:21.029 --> 00:16:23.720
those properly. But then it just seems like it
00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:26.940
exploded even further and became even more of
00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:29.440
at the center of these conversations because
00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.580
of AI. So what do you think is the most important
00:16:33.580 --> 00:16:39.299
mindset shift for teachers when they're considering
00:16:39.299 --> 00:16:44.240
tools to use so effective use and accomplishing?
00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:48.960
Their task with an app is is one one piece of
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:51.340
it But then could you touch a little bit too
00:16:51.340 --> 00:16:53.879
about just the ethics or the responsible use
00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.279
as well? What's the most important thing that
00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:59.149
they should be considering there? Yeah. I mean,
00:16:59.149 --> 00:17:02.750
when I work with educators, particularly if I'm
00:17:02.750 --> 00:17:04.950
embedded with a group, like a district that I've
00:17:04.950 --> 00:17:07.569
done some work with before, they've typically
00:17:07.569 --> 00:17:10.710
already vetted a tool. It's already been approved.
00:17:10.990 --> 00:17:13.809
They know that it meets state level or district
00:17:13.809 --> 00:17:16.369
-wide compliance. That looks different in different
00:17:16.369 --> 00:17:19.210
places. So in those cases, we're going a little
00:17:19.210 --> 00:17:21.890
bit deeper. We might even look at what the student
00:17:21.890 --> 00:17:24.410
experience is, if it's a student -facing tool.
00:17:24.769 --> 00:17:27.329
But generally speaking, when I'm working with
00:17:27.329 --> 00:17:31.180
Laura, group of educators where I might not know,
00:17:31.180 --> 00:17:34.099
you know, the nuances of what a particular school
00:17:34.099 --> 00:17:35.980
or district or even state, you know, if I'm at
00:17:35.980 --> 00:17:39.240
a regional or nationwide event, I tend to focus
00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:42.740
more on instructional tools that an educator
00:17:42.740 --> 00:17:47.119
is using behind the scenes without adding or
00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:50.890
uploading anything private or sensitive. And
00:17:50.890 --> 00:17:54.309
if they are creating something that will be student
00:17:54.309 --> 00:17:57.150
facing, they're taking some of the best practices
00:17:57.150 --> 00:18:00.390
that they've had since they got a stack of newspapers
00:18:00.390 --> 00:18:02.910
delivered to their classroom. They're choosing
00:18:02.910 --> 00:18:06.329
the article. They've read it through. They know
00:18:06.329 --> 00:18:08.690
that it's appropriate for their group of students.
00:18:08.730 --> 00:18:11.109
And they're ready to share that piece of content
00:18:11.109 --> 00:18:14.529
with their curator hat on. Or maybe more recently,
00:18:14.710 --> 00:18:16.789
they've watched that YouTube video before they
00:18:16.789 --> 00:18:20.480
press play and shared it with a group. I'm always
00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:23.500
looking for those tools that a student does not
00:18:23.500 --> 00:18:27.460
have to log into, that a teacher can easily review
00:18:27.460 --> 00:18:31.180
any output, make edits and changes and customizations
00:18:31.180 --> 00:18:35.319
before it even gets to a student. And so plenty
00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:39.039
on that list that I tend to lean into when I'm
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:43.079
demoing or sharing a best practice for this.
00:18:43.919 --> 00:18:46.240
brisk teaching, which has been around for a bit.
00:18:46.380 --> 00:18:48.380
I did a post in partnership with them last summer
00:18:48.380 --> 00:18:50.380
and I've kind of followed along with all their
00:18:50.380 --> 00:18:54.160
updates. And one that I've seen a lot of great
00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:57.539
response to is their podcast feature, which kind
00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:01.400
of mirrors the notebook LM component. you mentioned
00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:04.380
earlier. And so with that, like you have a piece
00:19:04.380 --> 00:19:07.579
of text, you have a source material, and then
00:19:07.579 --> 00:19:10.859
you're generating a say two minute podcast that
00:19:10.859 --> 00:19:14.039
you can edit. And so I think what's really important
00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:18.259
there is that you have a why behind sharing that
00:19:18.259 --> 00:19:21.279
and some intention right behind sharing something
00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:24.440
like that. So for example, It's not just, oh,
00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:27.380
this is cool, now we have a podcast. It's I want
00:19:27.380 --> 00:19:30.279
to have an audio version that's going to provide
00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:33.940
a base for students before they dive into this
00:19:33.940 --> 00:19:36.539
resource that might be a little tough for them
00:19:36.539 --> 00:19:39.799
to tackle independently. Or this is an extension
00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:43.660
activity for students who are going to continue
00:19:43.660 --> 00:19:47.319
exploring a particular topic. So you've got that
00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:50.079
intention in mind. But then I also think it's
00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:52.720
really important and it's easy to skip this step.
00:19:52.910 --> 00:19:56.130
right, to have a level of transparency on how
00:19:56.130 --> 00:19:59.470
that resource was made and what is actually happening,
00:19:59.630 --> 00:20:01.890
right, when you press play on a resource like
00:20:01.890 --> 00:20:05.509
that. So sharing, right, this is source from
00:20:05.509 --> 00:20:07.910
this resource or this material saying you can
00:20:07.910 --> 00:20:09.990
see the link here at the top or however you share
00:20:09.990 --> 00:20:12.970
it saying these are not real people. talking
00:20:12.970 --> 00:20:16.990
about this resource. There was a Sirenet live
00:20:16.990 --> 00:20:19.930
sketch earlier this year that kind of brought
00:20:19.930 --> 00:20:23.049
that concept to life of this mishmash of these
00:20:23.049 --> 00:20:25.329
doesn't make sense what's coming out of the mouth
00:20:25.329 --> 00:20:29.279
of this robot, if you will. And so in this case,
00:20:29.420 --> 00:20:33.380
you're saying this is two robot voices who are
00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:36.759
talking with my air quotes there about this topic.
00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:39.759
Let's listen in and see what gems we can get
00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:43.759
from this AI -generated conversation. And you
00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:45.660
don't have to go into the logistics of that.
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:47.900
You don't even have to really understand how
00:20:47.900 --> 00:20:52.059
it was made in a deeper way. But just even throwing
00:20:52.059 --> 00:20:55.180
that sentence out there, I think, provides a
00:20:55.180 --> 00:20:57.819
level of transparency for a group of students.
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:00.900
And with that particular tool, this is true of
00:21:00.900 --> 00:21:03.779
most of them. You can download something like
00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:06.900
that for offline listening. You can share a link
00:21:06.900 --> 00:21:09.720
to it. And that way, students are not logging
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:12.940
into something or interacting with a chatbot
00:21:12.940 --> 00:21:15.980
experience if that doesn't feel appropriate or
00:21:15.980 --> 00:21:18.240
scaffolded for the particular group you're working
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:23.579
with. Yeah, so I know you've been diving into
00:21:23.579 --> 00:21:26.140
the AI stuff here for a while in education and
00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:29.500
you have your own AI and education membership
00:21:29.500 --> 00:21:33.220
that support teachers and curates resources,
00:21:33.220 --> 00:21:37.480
throwing PD opportunities out there. What's one
00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:40.640
way that you've seen your membership really use
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:44.079
AI not to just like foster efficiency, but like
00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:46.680
to be really impactful and enhancing student
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:49.430
learning? Yeah, I mean the memberships been really
00:21:49.430 --> 00:21:53.049
fun I have had my easy I tech club for about
00:21:53.049 --> 00:21:55.630
six years now There'll be six years in July which
00:21:55.630 --> 00:21:58.589
like has new ed tech masterclass each month a
00:21:58.589 --> 00:22:00.369
whole bunch of stuff to explore really broad
00:22:00.369 --> 00:22:03.849
like k -12 But when the AI piece came on the
00:22:03.849 --> 00:22:05.990
scene, especially because things were moving
00:22:05.990 --> 00:22:08.910
so fast I thought it would be a good opportunity
00:22:08.910 --> 00:22:13.319
to do more like a monthly update of curated content.
00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:17.160
I give three things every month for people to
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:19.140
dive into, like don't do all the things, but
00:22:19.140 --> 00:22:21.079
here's three things that might be worth checking
00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:23.720
out. But what I think sets it apart and what
00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:27.059
I hear from people because of just the questions
00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:30.160
I get and face -to -face moments too, is I try
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:35.039
to spotlight resources that may go beyond. education
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:37.819
on the surface level, but have implications for
00:22:37.819 --> 00:22:40.400
what we're looking at here in education. And
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:43.339
if saying this is a conversation or this is a
00:22:43.339 --> 00:22:46.180
resource related to a different industry, it
00:22:46.180 --> 00:22:48.160
might be something that you want to keep taking
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:51.339
a look at as you're developing policy. Or here's
00:22:51.339 --> 00:22:54.579
an article that shares some research that talks
00:22:54.579 --> 00:22:57.220
about career readiness. If you're developing
00:22:57.220 --> 00:22:59.720
policy, this might be something that you want
00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:02.559
to reference in your planning meeting. So in
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:04.900
addition to saying, here's what's new on the
00:23:04.900 --> 00:23:09.440
scene within education specifically, I try to
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:12.480
share some things that are on the outside edges
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:15.240
that are definitely impacting the work that we
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:18.779
do. And every month, I even share a new vocab
00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:21.420
word. something I heard that I think you're going
00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:24.000
to hear more of. And I haven't really tracked
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:26.900
like my win rate with those vocab words, right?
00:23:26.980 --> 00:23:28.519
Because there's some that I hear and then I'm
00:23:28.519 --> 00:23:30.059
like, oh, I'm so glad I included it. Because
00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:32.819
now everyone's saying agentic AI, or I'm so glad
00:23:32.819 --> 00:23:35.000
I mentioned this one, you know, because now I'm
00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:37.660
hearing everyone say slop, right? To talk about
00:23:37.660 --> 00:23:39.660
all this output, right? And then there's others
00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:41.180
I've mentioned where I'm like, ah, that one didn't
00:23:41.180 --> 00:23:43.700
take off, but at least you know about it. Or
00:23:43.700 --> 00:23:45.539
at least, you know, if it comes back around a
00:23:45.539 --> 00:23:47.140
year from now, you're like, oh, Monica mentioned
00:23:47.140 --> 00:23:50.630
that. So it's been fun. to create those resources
00:23:50.630 --> 00:23:55.250
and have just that vision of wanting to kind
00:23:55.250 --> 00:23:57.890
of help people not feel overwhelmed in a space
00:23:57.890 --> 00:24:01.109
that's very easy to be overwhelmed with so many
00:24:01.109 --> 00:24:05.289
new updates. And the definition thing is great.
00:24:05.509 --> 00:24:08.380
I think that's a really. Good point because I
00:24:08.380 --> 00:24:11.299
think even in when we present and stuff like
00:24:11.299 --> 00:24:13.839
that, like sometimes some of that can get lost,
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:16.220
you know, defining your terms and what some of
00:24:16.220 --> 00:24:17.599
these things mean, especially because some of
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:21.000
them are so new. And it's easy to forget that
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.259
a lot of folks might not know what that means.
00:24:23.660 --> 00:24:25.359
Like Jeremy and I just did a presentation and
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:28.539
we talked a bit about like cognitive offloading.
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:30.720
And so there's, you know, maybe an assumption
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:32.579
there that people just know what you're talking
00:24:32.579 --> 00:24:36.579
about. I think it's really a great point. to
00:24:36.579 --> 00:24:39.440
define your terms, help people understand like
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.339
what all is a part of that term. So that's so
00:24:42.339 --> 00:24:44.980
funny. Yeah, I say brain capital a lot, kind
00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:46.900
of like meeting the same thing, like, you're
00:24:46.900 --> 00:24:49.500
like, kind of just get rid of some of this extra
00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:52.079
right energy. And it is one that I sometimes
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:54.619
I'm like, maybe I should pause or say what I
00:24:54.619 --> 00:24:56.440
really mean. Or, you know, what's my gesture
00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:00.079
that goes at that? When talking to a group? Yeah.
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:03.799
Yeah, that's great. In it so and we've obviously
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:06.980
like we've we've focused quite a bit on the teacher
00:25:06.980 --> 00:25:10.339
side or the educator side You you recently had
00:25:10.339 --> 00:25:12.720
a post called for fun activities to teach students
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:15.279
about AI chatbots And that's actually one question
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:17.200
that we work with a lot of schools and that's
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:19.720
one thing that has come up quite a bit where
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:22.759
you know, I've had individuals at schools reach
00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:25.980
out to me and say like what would be a good program
00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:31.009
for teaching students about There's obviously
00:25:31.009 --> 00:25:35.309
now a number that could be recommended. Can you
00:25:35.309 --> 00:25:38.190
fill us in a little bit on your perspective on
00:25:38.190 --> 00:25:43.609
what impact AI is having on students, maybe focusing
00:25:43.609 --> 00:25:49.250
more on the K -12 aspect, and any insights on
00:25:49.250 --> 00:25:52.210
where you think that's heading as we go into
00:25:52.210 --> 00:25:55.309
this next school year? Yeah, and I think there's
00:25:55.309 --> 00:25:58.009
ways to have this conversation with and without.
00:25:58.029 --> 00:26:01.450
giving students access to a chat bot. When you
00:26:01.450 --> 00:26:03.950
talk about the kind of cognitive offloading for
00:26:03.950 --> 00:26:07.130
a teacher, there's also this idea of what can
00:26:07.130 --> 00:26:10.730
kids wrap their head around cognitively when
00:26:10.730 --> 00:26:13.470
they're in these spaces interacting with a chat
00:26:13.470 --> 00:26:16.849
bot. And so it may be appropriate to bring kids
00:26:16.849 --> 00:26:20.190
into a space where they're interacting with a
00:26:20.190 --> 00:26:22.990
tool that's vetted. I often will share school
00:26:22.990 --> 00:26:26.490
AI's chat spaces, right? Or chat bot activities
00:26:26.490 --> 00:26:28.950
for students as an example of one where it's
00:26:28.950 --> 00:26:32.410
like moderated. You can set up kids for success.
00:26:32.529 --> 00:26:34.670
You can pause everyone, right? So there's like
00:26:34.670 --> 00:26:37.119
some things that are built in. to facilitate
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:39.980
that student experience. But particularly in
00:26:39.980 --> 00:26:43.079
that blog post you mentioned, which has an excerpt
00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:46.579
from the second edition of my book, Attack Essentials,
00:26:46.599 --> 00:26:50.299
you don't have to have kids inside a space, particularly
00:26:50.299 --> 00:26:54.460
if you're just not sure where your school and
00:26:54.460 --> 00:26:56.940
district policy is or what you are comfortable
00:26:56.940 --> 00:27:00.359
with. I surely have mixed feelings about the
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:03.119
idea of setting up eighth graders to chat with
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:06.289
a simulation of Abraham Lincoln. even though
00:27:06.289 --> 00:27:10.769
I understand some of the benefits when it's shared
00:27:10.769 --> 00:27:14.910
in a way or set up in a way that really is purposeful.
00:27:15.210 --> 00:27:19.009
But if you are keeping kids off of chat bots
00:27:19.009 --> 00:27:21.049
in terms of their interactions, but you want
00:27:21.049 --> 00:27:25.170
to introduce this concept to them, you could
00:27:25.170 --> 00:27:27.869
share with them a side by side, like a compare
00:27:27.869 --> 00:27:32.269
and contrast. These are the results I got when
00:27:32.269 --> 00:27:34.799
I did a keyword search. this is what happened
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:37.359
when I went into a chatbot. Let's talk about
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:42.250
what is different or what's missing. It's curious
00:27:42.250 --> 00:27:44.869
that Google mentioned this in the list of things
00:27:44.869 --> 00:27:47.769
I should look at. And Chachi BT didn't mention
00:27:47.769 --> 00:27:50.250
this in the three paragraphs they gave me. Why
00:27:50.250 --> 00:27:55.630
is that? Or what could I follow up with the chat
00:27:55.630 --> 00:27:58.809
bot or follow up with by adding into my keyword
00:27:58.809 --> 00:28:02.630
search? So you might skip the comparison and
00:28:02.630 --> 00:28:06.450
take kids straight to, say, Gemini and show them.
00:28:06.730 --> 00:28:10.509
an output and say, like, did this get me where
00:28:10.509 --> 00:28:13.750
I wanted to go? Like, what kind of feedback would
00:28:13.750 --> 00:28:16.109
you give me on the prompt that I wrote? What
00:28:16.109 --> 00:28:19.029
should I have included? And if you've done any
00:28:19.029 --> 00:28:22.509
type of writing or modeling, right, with students,
00:28:22.849 --> 00:28:25.170
right, you know that you leave out the juicy
00:28:25.170 --> 00:28:27.309
adjectives because you want to show kids how
00:28:27.309 --> 00:28:29.910
you revise your writing, right? So, like, you
00:28:29.910 --> 00:28:32.349
might do that really strategically, right? Leave
00:28:32.349 --> 00:28:35.029
out that extra piece of context so you have something
00:28:35.029 --> 00:28:38.549
to talk about. with your group. You might also
00:28:38.549 --> 00:28:41.630
share an output with them and have them fact
00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:44.130
check it and talk about what that process looks
00:28:44.130 --> 00:28:47.829
like for as much as I show different strategies
00:28:47.829 --> 00:28:51.509
for using chatbots with a group. You know, I'll
00:28:51.509 --> 00:28:54.509
often share the things that are low stakes, like
00:28:54.509 --> 00:28:56.589
give me a list of fruits and vegetables with
00:28:56.589 --> 00:28:59.069
an emoji next to each one. Awesome. That saved
00:28:59.069 --> 00:29:01.450
me some time for an anchor chart I'm making.
00:29:01.849 --> 00:29:04.990
But if I ask it to make a timeline of events
00:29:04.990 --> 00:29:08.289
in the American Revolution in the state of Delaware,
00:29:08.650 --> 00:29:10.809
like I need to double check that because I don't
00:29:10.809 --> 00:29:13.289
know for sure that all of those things happened.
00:29:13.549 --> 00:29:16.329
And so you might do that with a group, right?
00:29:16.430 --> 00:29:19.500
Say, I just don't know. I'm not an expert on
00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:22.380
this region as much as I might teach you about
00:29:22.380 --> 00:29:25.700
American history. I need to double check this.
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:27.960
Where would I even go? Is there a historical
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:31.039
society? Is there an encyclopedia article? Are
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:32.960
there links next to each of these events where
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:36.420
I trust that as a vetted source? So you can do
00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:40.480
a lot without ever having kids type in chatgbt
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:45.799
.com or copilot or another tool and still introduce
00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:47.980
some of these best practices. this is that they
00:29:47.980 --> 00:29:50.980
might use at home or they might use later on,
00:29:51.059 --> 00:29:55.039
you know, in their academic career. No, I think
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:57.759
those are a lot of useful practical strategies.
00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:00.440
You know, the one that you mentioned, I didn't
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:02.819
even really think about, but now I'm imagining
00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:04.779
how could I do something with this as well where
00:30:04.779 --> 00:30:07.059
you had, you know, here's your key term search
00:30:07.059 --> 00:30:09.200
and then you talked about, here's my interaction
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:11.240
with the chatbot and the kid would never even
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:14.160
have to touch it. The teacher just shares it,
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:16.039
but the meaningful discussions that could take
00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:18.970
place there then the kid is going to see I think
00:30:18.970 --> 00:30:21.470
that there is a difference between the internet
00:30:21.470 --> 00:30:25.950
and between generative AI and even though you
00:30:25.950 --> 00:30:27.569
know even you google now when you type stuff
00:30:27.569 --> 00:30:30.509
in it's giving you their AI response now right
00:30:30.509 --> 00:30:33.869
still and kids I'm sure have seen that and be
00:30:33.869 --> 00:30:37.309
able to have that conversation with them and
00:30:37.309 --> 00:30:40.289
you know start that dialogue and and maybe they
00:30:40.289 --> 00:30:43.849
would then find a more purposeful and effective
00:30:43.849 --> 00:30:46.910
way to utilize that tool so I think that's That's
00:30:46.910 --> 00:30:48.670
a connection that you just made for me. I really
00:30:48.670 --> 00:30:53.670
appreciate that. I'm sure you get a lot of teachers
00:30:53.670 --> 00:30:57.450
that come to you, though, overwhelmed with EdTech
00:30:57.450 --> 00:31:01.450
and EdTech tools. Whether it's the sheer amount
00:31:01.450 --> 00:31:03.990
of those that are available or perhaps they're
00:31:03.990 --> 00:31:07.750
feeling pressured from their colleagues or from
00:31:07.750 --> 00:31:11.390
their administrators to be more purposeful with
00:31:11.390 --> 00:31:14.309
the types of technology integration that they're
00:31:14.309 --> 00:31:18.640
using. And so if these teachers that are feeling
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:21.140
overwhelmed are coming to you, what are some
00:31:21.140 --> 00:31:24.039
questions you would like them to ask before committing
00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:28.599
to a particular tool? Yeah. I mean, I think the
00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:30.920
biggest thing, and this can happen really any
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:33.440
time of year, but it might be a reflection question
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:36.880
at the end of the year or one that they use as
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:39.440
a planning kind of question before starting a
00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:43.660
new year, is what are the categories of tools
00:31:43.660 --> 00:31:47.210
that I I really want to have. And I think that
00:31:47.210 --> 00:31:51.109
can help them streamline their tool belt. Some
00:31:51.109 --> 00:31:53.410
of them might be non -negotiables. Like, I can't
00:31:53.410 --> 00:31:55.529
pick my learning management system. I've been
00:31:55.529 --> 00:31:58.089
told to use that. I sometimes use the phrase,
00:31:58.250 --> 00:32:00.509
like, embrace your place. Like, you've been given
00:32:00.509 --> 00:32:03.289
this. Like, don't. try and find another workaround,
00:32:03.450 --> 00:32:07.130
like just use this thing because you have a community
00:32:07.130 --> 00:32:09.549
of people who also know what button to press,
00:32:09.609 --> 00:32:12.089
who can help you troubleshoot, right? Even if
00:32:12.089 --> 00:32:14.490
it's not perfect, none of these are perfect,
00:32:14.650 --> 00:32:17.410
right? So, you know, it'll at least get you 90
00:32:17.410 --> 00:32:19.569
% of the way there, even if it's not the one
00:32:19.569 --> 00:32:21.869
you would have picked and you have a community
00:32:21.869 --> 00:32:26.180
already around it. But the other areas where
00:32:26.180 --> 00:32:28.759
someone might have more flexibility or they might
00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:30.940
have a list of tools from their district that
00:32:30.940 --> 00:32:33.119
they've been given the green light on, you know,
00:32:33.259 --> 00:32:36.480
are really, I would say three core areas to focus
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:40.859
on. One is how are you going to collapse? and
00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:44.079
share those resources you curated for a group.
00:32:44.380 --> 00:32:46.420
Maybe it's your learning management system, right?
00:32:46.759 --> 00:32:49.500
Or maybe you are going to just stick with HyperDoc
00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:52.900
all year long for every unit of study and have
00:32:52.900 --> 00:32:55.319
all of those resources that you find from favorite
00:32:55.319 --> 00:32:58.539
places. So how are you going to collect resources
00:32:58.539 --> 00:33:00.880
that you're then going to distribute? Choose
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:04.700
your one way to do that. The next is your assessment
00:33:04.700 --> 00:33:07.589
tool. Sometimes this is mandated that you have
00:33:07.589 --> 00:33:09.890
to use it a certain way, or sometimes you have
00:33:09.890 --> 00:33:12.609
some flexibility. Like, how am I checking for
00:33:12.609 --> 00:33:15.289
understanding? Maybe it's more than one tool,
00:33:15.329 --> 00:33:17.549
but if I look back on the year and one works
00:33:17.549 --> 00:33:19.789
really well and one didn't, what am I going to
00:33:19.789 --> 00:33:22.549
keep? What am I going to drop? It doesn't have
00:33:22.549 --> 00:33:24.910
to be quizzing, right? It could be a polling
00:33:24.910 --> 00:33:28.750
tool. It could be video exit ticket, something
00:33:28.750 --> 00:33:30.670
that gives kids a lot of choice. So something
00:33:30.670 --> 00:33:32.690
that's going to help you check for understanding
00:33:32.690 --> 00:33:36.130
in the best way for your group. And then asking
00:33:36.130 --> 00:33:39.710
yourselves, what kind of open -ended creation
00:33:39.710 --> 00:33:43.579
tool can I use more than once? over the course
00:33:43.579 --> 00:33:45.880
of the school year, right? What is that tool
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:48.880
going to be that allows kids to share their learning
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:52.519
in a handful of different ways? I've done some
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:54.880
work with the book creator team. That's a big
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:57.140
favorite one for K -12. You can do a lot with
00:33:57.140 --> 00:33:58.720
kindergarten. You can do a lot with high schoolers,
00:33:58.819 --> 00:34:01.200
right? So I love, you know, with my professional
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:03.480
learning work to share something that is nice
00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:07.039
and wide like that, you know, maybe. It's Canada.
00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:09.880
Maybe it's an Adobe Express. I've done some work
00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:12.400
with the education team in Adobe too. And you
00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:14.400
know, that's another one that gives plenty of
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.079
flexibility. So what's something that's not a
00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:19.619
one and done creative tool, but that you can
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:22.900
use? consistently over the course of the year.
00:34:23.139 --> 00:34:26.000
Maybe you start low stakes with them all about
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:28.420
me activity or three favorite things and you
00:34:28.420 --> 00:34:30.519
learn where all the buttons are and then you're
00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:33.400
dialing it up right using the same rubric from
00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:36.199
last year's project. But now you're just in this
00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:39.739
one familiar space and you're not spending time
00:34:39.739 --> 00:34:42.579
getting kids comfortable there. You're just revisiting
00:34:42.579 --> 00:34:45.599
the spot consistently with a different purpose.
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:49.179
And I would say too, just from my own experience
00:34:49.179 --> 00:34:53.679
with working with teachers, one of the, I find
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:56.500
to be one of the most beneficial things is giving
00:34:56.500 --> 00:34:59.619
them the hand, like guided hands -on time to
00:34:59.619 --> 00:35:02.760
actually explore these things that you're referencing
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:06.619
and give them the time to do that. And you've
00:35:06.619 --> 00:35:10.320
done a number of presentations over the last,
00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:15.579
how many years now? And so, and we've attended
00:35:15.579 --> 00:35:19.239
your sessions, like I mentioned, but what would
00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:25.019
you say, because of the different areas that
00:35:25.019 --> 00:35:29.320
we're now in, so both in -person events and then
00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:32.920
now remote events, because yeah, the whole pandemic
00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:36.739
situation, there's just a lot of virtual opportunities
00:35:36.739 --> 00:35:41.190
out there. I'm really interested in, your consulting
00:35:41.190 --> 00:35:43.789
work in that regard, and what are some of the
00:35:43.789 --> 00:35:47.650
things that you find that are helpful to engage
00:35:47.650 --> 00:35:51.269
with educators, especially in a remote PD, because
00:35:51.269 --> 00:35:53.730
I know that that can be much more difficult than
00:35:53.730 --> 00:35:56.989
when you're working with a group in person. What
00:35:56.989 --> 00:35:59.710
do you find are some helpful tools or strategies
00:35:59.710 --> 00:36:02.230
when you're in those type of settings? Yeah,
00:36:02.329 --> 00:36:05.570
I mean, it's been a wild few years, right, of
00:36:05.570 --> 00:36:08.599
hosting webinars and figuring out what makes
00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:10.940
the most sense for different groups of people.
00:36:11.340 --> 00:36:13.719
And it really depends. I mean, in just the month
00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:17.500
of June, I did virtual PD where I'm the only
00:36:17.500 --> 00:36:19.800
one on the screen who's virtual and everyone
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:23.219
else is sitting around a table together or doing
00:36:23.219 --> 00:36:25.500
PD where there's some people who are joining
00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:27.739
in from lots of different places. And then there's
00:36:27.739 --> 00:36:31.099
also a room with 30 people in it who are in a
00:36:31.099 --> 00:36:33.900
different kind of space. So it's evolved a bit
00:36:33.900 --> 00:36:38.099
too in some of the challenges and benefits, even
00:36:38.099 --> 00:36:42.460
post -distance learning, if you will. So for
00:36:42.460 --> 00:36:45.719
me, when I'm running those sessions, one thing
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:48.420
that's shifted a bit in the past, I would say
00:36:48.420 --> 00:36:51.659
two or three years, is I've been doing more workshop
00:36:51.659 --> 00:36:55.539
series as opposed to more standalone ones. So
00:36:55.539 --> 00:36:58.079
what that looks like is I'm with the same group.
00:36:58.849 --> 00:37:01.369
Maybe it's three days in a row. I just did that
00:37:01.369 --> 00:37:03.630
with a group in May, kind of like a rapid fire
00:37:03.630 --> 00:37:06.309
end of the year. Sometimes it's once a month
00:37:06.309 --> 00:37:09.789
or every other week or whatever the cadence might
00:37:09.789 --> 00:37:12.409
be. And what I think is really important about
00:37:12.409 --> 00:37:15.309
that, particularly as we've shifted to sometimes
00:37:15.309 --> 00:37:17.590
more of a hybrid model in different instances,
00:37:18.170 --> 00:37:20.570
is that you're still getting a level of consistency.
00:37:21.130 --> 00:37:24.389
and you know that there's this pathway that you're
00:37:24.389 --> 00:37:27.309
following as opposed to something where there's
00:37:27.309 --> 00:37:30.730
no maybe ongoing support or follow up. And there's
00:37:30.730 --> 00:37:33.610
different ways to do that. I worked with a group
00:37:33.610 --> 00:37:36.929
virtually in New York this spring where we did
00:37:36.929 --> 00:37:40.670
a 60, kind of 30 model for our 90 minutes together.
00:37:41.010 --> 00:37:44.130
And those 30 minutes was just Q &A at the end,
00:37:44.170 --> 00:37:46.949
right? Like we still did our try it out and a
00:37:46.949 --> 00:37:50.230
workshop piece. We really dedicated time for
00:37:50.230 --> 00:37:52.510
questions, which can be tough with some groups.
00:37:52.630 --> 00:37:55.690
Not everyone is primed for questions. But when
00:37:55.690 --> 00:37:58.130
you have a group that's built that into some
00:37:58.130 --> 00:38:00.469
of their professional learning culture, it is
00:38:00.469 --> 00:38:03.650
a really great way to meet people where they're
00:38:03.650 --> 00:38:06.949
at, to learn about pain points that someone might
00:38:06.949 --> 00:38:11.409
not have articulated in other sessions. And that's
00:38:11.409 --> 00:38:14.389
been a fun model to incorporate a bit more of
00:38:14.389 --> 00:38:18.909
like a Q &A office hours piece. But for most
00:38:18.909 --> 00:38:22.170
of what I do, I try to make sure we have time
00:38:22.170 --> 00:38:24.920
to get into a breakout room. to try some things
00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:28.900
out. And one big piece that's pretty consistent
00:38:28.900 --> 00:38:33.000
with the virtual work that I do is having some
00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:37.019
type of a living document that goes on after.
00:38:37.179 --> 00:38:40.079
We've spent our time together. So I typically
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:43.760
will use Padlet. I've always been a fan of that
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:48.760
tool, and it works very well for big and small
00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:51.889
groups. But I will prime it with some of my own
00:38:51.889 --> 00:38:55.369
content to get us started. And then people participate
00:38:55.369 --> 00:38:58.889
there instead of the Zoom chat. That's hard to
00:38:58.889 --> 00:39:02.050
find later. And that way, they can go in. They
00:39:02.050 --> 00:39:04.510
can participate. I can still moderate it. I never
00:39:04.510 --> 00:39:06.650
really have big issues. But it's always nice
00:39:06.650 --> 00:39:09.880
to know you have that. I freeze the padlets usually
00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:12.559
at the end. That way no one can get in there
00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:15.400
later. They have got a question. I keep my email
00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:17.940
right at the very top so they know exactly how
00:39:17.940 --> 00:39:20.159
to contact me in case there's a link that's not
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:23.079
working or I forgot to add or something like
00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:27.119
that. So it checks a lot of boxes for them. In
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:30.000
order to kind of keep the learning going and
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.360
and that's probably one of my biggest kind of
00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:35.519
tips is to have Something that everyone can access
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:38.659
quickly and easily with you know your contact
00:39:38.659 --> 00:39:41.400
info Snuck in there somewhere for them to reach
00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:44.900
out if they've got a another question You know,
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:47.780
I think to build off of that another great way
00:39:47.780 --> 00:39:49.719
I think to keep the learning going to use your
00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:54.820
words there It is having a podcast and I know
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:59.940
You host your own podcast to the Easy Ed Tech
00:39:59.940 --> 00:40:03.260
podcast where you highlight tools and you highlight
00:40:03.260 --> 00:40:07.940
stories. Has there been a recent guest or theme
00:40:07.940 --> 00:40:11.340
perhaps that you found kind of inspiring? Yeah,
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:14.199
I mean it's been really fun to have a wide variety
00:40:14.199 --> 00:40:17.539
of educators on the podcast who are sharing things
00:40:17.539 --> 00:40:21.719
that are specific to their geography or specific
00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:25.460
to their learning environment and often times
00:40:25.460 --> 00:40:28.360
even if they have something that might seem really
00:40:28.570 --> 00:40:32.829
specific on the surface. There's just so many
00:40:32.829 --> 00:40:35.409
ways for other people to go and run with it.
00:40:35.429 --> 00:40:39.610
So I just had Eric Walters on the podcast to
00:40:39.610 --> 00:40:42.909
talk about a course that he's running around
00:40:42.909 --> 00:40:47.869
creativity and ethics in AI. He works at a school
00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:50.699
He's a fellow Apple Distinguished Educator. He
00:40:50.699 --> 00:40:54.159
works at a school. That's all high school students.
00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:57.079
And he created a live course and then something
00:40:57.079 --> 00:40:59.480
that people can do asynchronously if they're
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:03.519
just curious that he's launching widely. I don't
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:06.199
know that we use the word MOOC anymore or as
00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:10.039
frequently, but just an open course for people
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:12.980
to jump into. And so what I loved about that
00:41:12.980 --> 00:41:17.300
conversation was just this idea of how he was
00:41:17.300 --> 00:41:21.170
leading. his students through handling some of
00:41:21.170 --> 00:41:24.710
the ethical questions around AI. So even though
00:41:24.710 --> 00:41:27.550
someone might not be able to have a full year
00:41:27.550 --> 00:41:30.889
course like he talked about, or even a semester
00:41:30.889 --> 00:41:35.670
course, they can still listen in and grab a couple
00:41:35.670 --> 00:41:38.050
of those sentence starters and bring them back.
00:41:38.389 --> 00:41:40.889
So again, wanting to make things actionable,
00:41:41.369 --> 00:41:44.510
having some fun storytelling that goes along
00:41:44.510 --> 00:41:47.909
with it. So I think that's been That's been a
00:41:47.909 --> 00:41:51.429
good one, particularly with the AI of it all,
00:41:51.670 --> 00:41:56.829
if you will. I do a combo of solo episodes. I
00:41:56.829 --> 00:42:00.869
do a combo of interview episodes. So there's
00:42:00.869 --> 00:42:03.969
a little bit. for everyone in terms of getting
00:42:03.969 --> 00:42:07.050
maybe some seasonal content or a quick listicle
00:42:07.050 --> 00:42:10.309
of ideas for me, and then more of the storytelling
00:42:10.309 --> 00:42:13.429
when I get a chance to chat with someone who
00:42:13.429 --> 00:42:15.809
is doing something that I think other people
00:42:15.809 --> 00:42:19.590
would be curious about too. Yeah, and that's
00:42:19.590 --> 00:42:24.019
actually a good segue to, as you mentioned, Eric
00:42:24.019 --> 00:42:27.099
working with students and I wanted to talk a
00:42:27.099 --> 00:42:31.559
little bit about student agency. So the student
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:34.659
created content has been a big theme of your
00:42:34.659 --> 00:42:37.820
recent work. And so what I'm wondering is how
00:42:37.820 --> 00:42:41.960
can educators empower students to take more ownership
00:42:41.960 --> 00:42:45.559
of their learning? I think that AI is becoming.
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:50.599
a bit more of a force or a catalyst for that,
00:42:50.860 --> 00:42:54.559
but even just with your time in EdTech and all
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:56.440
the things that the ideas that you've gathered
00:42:56.440 --> 00:42:59.980
and shared with others, what would you say that
00:42:59.980 --> 00:43:03.099
educators could do immediately to allow their
00:43:03.099 --> 00:43:05.460
students to take more ownership in their classroom
00:43:05.460 --> 00:43:08.539
when they're creating things with tech? It doesn't
00:43:08.539 --> 00:43:11.679
have to be AI, though we know that's a huge topic,
00:43:11.739 --> 00:43:14.460
but what would you say to a question like that?
00:43:14.710 --> 00:43:18.349
Yeah, I mean, we hear student choice a lot as
00:43:18.349 --> 00:43:21.210
almost this buzzword of like, kids need choices,
00:43:21.289 --> 00:43:23.849
right? Or it gives them more ownership of their
00:43:23.849 --> 00:43:26.329
learning. And that's great to hear, but we need
00:43:26.329 --> 00:43:28.829
to act on it. And it can be intimidating when
00:43:28.829 --> 00:43:32.449
it comes to, you know, using different tech tools
00:43:32.449 --> 00:43:35.389
and like, how could I have kids use three different
00:43:35.389 --> 00:43:37.949
tools in my classroom? And like, someone's gonna
00:43:37.949 --> 00:43:40.170
make a podcast and someone's gonna make a video
00:43:40.170 --> 00:43:42.050
and someone's gonna do an infographic. Like,
00:43:42.050 --> 00:43:46.210
that's tough to manage. for someone who is building
00:43:46.210 --> 00:43:49.650
their confidence with classroom management, even
00:43:49.650 --> 00:43:52.969
if they are super techie, or with technology.
00:43:53.429 --> 00:43:56.929
So I mean, it's important to honor the reality
00:43:56.929 --> 00:44:00.650
of how tricky that can be. And when it comes
00:44:00.650 --> 00:44:03.949
to student projects, that's where I come back
00:44:03.949 --> 00:44:06.389
to some of those open -ended creation tools I
00:44:06.389 --> 00:44:09.110
mentioned before. We don't have to necessarily
00:44:09.110 --> 00:44:12.920
give everyone a different type of output all
00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:15.000
the time, although I love that if it's something
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:18.940
that someone can manage effectively. You might
00:44:18.940 --> 00:44:22.760
just be choosing a tool that gives kids choice
00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:25.360
within it, right? So Book Creator, like I mentioned
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:28.340
before, I was working with a group of third graders
00:44:28.340 --> 00:44:31.739
in Hawaii like two springs ago, and I shared
00:44:31.739 --> 00:44:34.519
with them just like, here's... a couple pages
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:37.179
I made in Book Creator. I put in some of the
00:44:37.179 --> 00:44:39.239
things I'm curious about. They were getting ready
00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:44.900
to kick off a inquiry unit. And you can now decide
00:44:44.900 --> 00:44:47.480
how you want to capture things you're curious
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:52.059
about. kept it pretty wide for them. And some
00:44:52.059 --> 00:44:55.559
kids snapped pictures, some kids used their voice,
00:44:56.079 --> 00:44:58.920
some were much more comfortable typing. And at
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:03.179
the end of the 30 minutes we had together, everyone
00:45:03.179 --> 00:45:05.960
had some pages with things they wanted to learn
00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:08.940
more about, but it all looked a lot different.
00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:11.940
And a lot different in terms of their output,
00:45:11.960 --> 00:45:14.739
but it accomplished the same goal. If I had a
00:45:14.739 --> 00:45:18.659
checklist that said, Did the students share three
00:45:18.659 --> 00:45:21.219
things they're curious about? I could say that
00:45:21.219 --> 00:45:23.559
yes, right, for everyone, even though the way
00:45:23.559 --> 00:45:26.800
they did that was different. So when it comes
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:29.820
to thinking about creativity in the classroom,
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:33.760
it can absolutely go right in a. in a lot of
00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:35.539
different directions. If you're working with
00:45:35.539 --> 00:45:39.260
secondary students who are curious and capable
00:45:39.260 --> 00:45:42.519
of finding YouTube tutorials for a tool you've
00:45:42.519 --> 00:45:45.340
never heard of and you're having great check
00:45:45.340 --> 00:45:47.400
-ins to make sure they're moving along with their
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:49.900
progress and there's no big surprises at the
00:45:49.900 --> 00:45:52.460
end, like amazing. Maybe they're using GarageBand
00:45:52.460 --> 00:45:54.920
to make a project even if you don't know all
00:45:54.920 --> 00:45:57.860
the ins and outs of that tool. But if you want
00:45:57.860 --> 00:46:00.800
to be side by side with some support or a group,
00:46:01.139 --> 00:46:03.659
right, that might be the better fit, keeping
00:46:03.659 --> 00:46:06.239
someone, keeping a group in a tool that has a
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:08.900
lot of options built into it. Yeah, and I think
00:46:08.900 --> 00:46:11.460
that's a great point, too, is that you don't
00:46:11.460 --> 00:46:14.420
have to necessarily bite off more than you can
00:46:14.420 --> 00:46:17.380
chew and have, you know, some students submitting
00:46:17.380 --> 00:46:19.880
a presentation and some submitting a podcast
00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:22.159
and that type of thing. I like what you said
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:24.699
just about allowing them to have their voice
00:46:24.699 --> 00:46:27.340
within what, you know, you can establish the
00:46:27.340 --> 00:46:29.280
end product, but there's plenty of room for student
00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:32.599
voice within that. framework. Yeah, absolutely.
00:46:33.960 --> 00:46:36.360
Absolutely. Well, Monica, we're kind of coming
00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:39.500
up here near the end of our time here. You know,
00:46:39.619 --> 00:46:42.239
can you give us a sense of what's what's next
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:44.659
for you? Do you have any big projects rolling
00:46:44.659 --> 00:46:47.460
out a book perhaps or conference appearances
00:46:47.460 --> 00:46:50.820
that you'd like to shout out and share? Yeah,
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:54.260
so I have something new coming out from ASCD
00:46:54.260 --> 00:46:57.780
that is still in the don't talk about it yet
00:46:57.780 --> 00:47:01.760
mode, but will be available this summer. So if
00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:05.099
anyone's following along with me on Instagram
00:47:05.099 --> 00:47:08.179
or on my newsletter, you'll hear about it for
00:47:08.179 --> 00:47:10.659
sure, but I can't talk about it just yet, but
00:47:10.659 --> 00:47:13.219
really excited to have something a little different.
00:47:13.769 --> 00:47:16.989
from a publisher that I've worked with for a
00:47:16.989 --> 00:47:19.389
long time now for books and quick reference guides.
00:47:19.769 --> 00:47:22.630
So that's one big thing or small thing, I should
00:47:22.630 --> 00:47:25.349
say. It's a little bit of a hint that's coming.
00:47:25.789 --> 00:47:29.170
And then over this summer, I'm doing a lot of
00:47:29.170 --> 00:47:31.730
virtual professional development after a busy
00:47:31.730 --> 00:47:35.489
kind of on the road. And yeah, just excited to
00:47:35.489 --> 00:47:38.389
connect with folks in lots of different spaces,
00:47:38.650 --> 00:47:40.769
which, you know, the zoom of it all makes it
00:47:40.769 --> 00:47:44.769
easier than ever to do. And as far as like your
00:47:44.769 --> 00:47:47.710
socials and everything, where can we direct listeners
00:47:47.710 --> 00:47:50.489
to everything that you have going on with your
00:47:50.489 --> 00:47:53.610
podcast, your website, any socials that you'd
00:47:53.610 --> 00:47:57.469
like to share? Yeah, everything is class tech
00:47:57.469 --> 00:48:01.599
tips. whether that's, you know, Instagram, Pinterest,
00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:05.559
you name it, and it's classtechtips .com. You
00:48:05.559 --> 00:48:08.599
can find the podcast right there. If you've got
00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:12.099
a favorite podcast player, you can just type
00:48:12.099 --> 00:48:16.300
in Easy Ed Tech Podcast or Monica Burns and you'll
00:48:16.300 --> 00:48:19.059
find it there. And same thing goes for all the
00:48:19.059 --> 00:48:21.679
books. I've got them linked out on my website.
00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:24.920
If you go to Amazon and you type in Monica Burns,
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:27.920
there's two of us. The other Monica Burns writes
00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:30.860
very different types of books. So I think you'll
00:48:30.860 --> 00:48:33.679
know exactly which ones are mine right away.
00:48:34.820 --> 00:48:37.559
Great. And we'll make sure to share everything
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:41.699
too in the descriptions to our podcast and to
00:48:41.699 --> 00:48:45.059
the YouTube video as well. Once that comes out,
00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:47.780
we'll have those available for listeners below.
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:51.440
So Monica, thanks again for joining us. We really
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:55.559
appreciate your time and we hope you... have
00:48:55.559 --> 00:48:59.019
a lot of success with your undisclosed upcoming
00:48:59.019 --> 00:49:03.739
release. Thanks again. We really appreciate it.
00:49:03.900 --> 00:49:07.340
Thank you. Yes, thank you. Thanks for listening
00:49:07.340 --> 00:49:09.900
to Integrate This. Want to take your learning
00:49:09.900 --> 00:49:12.380
further? Head over to our YouTube channel for
00:49:12.380 --> 00:49:15.760
quick tutorials, deep dives, and more ed tech
00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:18.880
tips you can use right away. Don't forget to
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:21.920
subscribe and catch new podcast episodes every
00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:25.500
Thursday on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get
00:49:25.500 --> 00:49:29.099
your podcasts. Until next time, keep exploring,
00:49:29.699 --> 00:49:32.320
keep innovating and keep integrating this.