Dr. Sheldon Eakins on Purposeful Leadership and Culturally Responsive Teaching

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Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
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podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
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Join your hosts David Berner and Jeremy Mikla
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up.
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And let's integrate this. Hey, welcome to the
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Integrate This Ed Tech podcast. I'm David Berner,
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joined by co -host Jeremy Nicola. And today we
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have with us Dr. Sheldon Akins. You can also
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see Sheldon is avid sneaker collector there,
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too. Pretty awesome background. And Sheldon actually
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and I we kind of briefly met at ISTE because
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we were both in attendance for one of Dr. Valenzuela's
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presentations. But Sheldon has a ton of work
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that he's done as a school administrator and
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educational consultant and leadership coach.
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And he's also got several books. So we want to
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talk about some of those things with you today.
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But Sheldon, do you mind kicking things off for
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us and just kind of giving us your story from,
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you know, where where you started to how you
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got to where you got to today? Absolutely. And
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thanks for having me on the show, David and Jeremy.
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It is an honor and a pleasure. A little bit about
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myself. As David said, behind me, if you're watching
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this, there's a bunch of Jordans behind me. I'll
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start there since it's what was brought up. I
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am an avid collector of Jordans, particularly
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Jordan 1s. So I have probably about 40 of those.
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I didn't have enough lockers, so I need to get
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some more. So there's some of them in my closet.
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But then I also have some other Jordan Retros,
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twos and threes and fours and those kind of things.
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So I am a collector. But outside of that, when
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I was in the 12th grade, I decided I wanted to
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be a teacher. I had a really cool history teacher.
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His name was Mr. Fielder. He was just like the
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coolest guy ever. And I was like, man, I want
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to be just like him. I love the way he taught
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history. I love the way he told stories. And
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he was also my basketball coach. I was like,
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I want to do that. And so I went to college and
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I majored in social science education so I could
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become a history teacher. I had the opportunity
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to become a history teacher and also had the
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opportunity to coach as well. Unfortunately,
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I've had a chance to win a championship. I've
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made it to playoffs, but one year I did make
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it to the championship and won. championship.
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So that was fun. And it's just been my journey
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like fresh out of college. I made it to the Virgin
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Islands where I first started teaching there.
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And that was kind of like my first introduction
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to coastal responsive teaching because, yeah,
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I got a lot of theory and I even went to historically
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black college. But there was still a lot of things
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that just culture wise that I had to pick up
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and I had to learn. It just wasn't something
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that I just could learn in a book. And so a lot
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of those experiences really kind of honed the
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way I approach education. So from being a history
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teacher, I decided to go ahead and get my master's
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in leadership and had the opportunity to run
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a couple schools as a school principal. And I
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said, you know what, master's is cool, but I
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want to keep going. And my goal initially was
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to move into higher education. And I said, OK,
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I'm going to be a professor. That was the goal.
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I knew I didn't want to be in the classroom.
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Got my PhD in K through 12 studies and moved
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into higher education, which took me to Idaho.
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Never would have thought I would end up in Idaho,
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but it happened. You know, it's one of those
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things during that time when I'll just put in
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applications everywhere just cause I was trying
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to get a job, trying to move into higher ed and
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Idaho state called me and they interviewed me.
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I actually had forgotten that I had to interview
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or that I had to put an application into they
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reached out a few months later. And, uh, yeah,
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I got the job, moved to Idaho. but then I realized
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I miss the kids. Like it was cool, but working
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with adults, don't get me wrong, I enjoy working
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with adults and I like that, but I still like
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to be around children. And so I got tapped into
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the local reservation out there, the Shoshone
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and Bannock tribes, and they asked me to work
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as their special education director. So I spent
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about three years working as a SPED director.
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And being a black man in Idaho, I was struggling
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with a lot of things when it came to how I was
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being treated and how I respond to treatment.
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And it's not like it was just racist. It was
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just... Um, a lot of subtle stuff, a lot of people
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just ignorance. They just hadn't had a lot of
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experience with inner inner acting with folks
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like me. And so I was just trying to navigate
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a lot of things and I started a podcast. So I
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started a podcast back in 2018. It's called leading
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equity. We have, let's see, I just published
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episode 430. two, 33, somewhere around there
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at this point. And it's just been a journey to
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where I've had the opportunity to meet some great
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and amazing people and learn from so many folks
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and do all this research and just kind of keep
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me up to date. It's provided me opportunities
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to become a consultant. So I do run a consultant
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firm called Purposeful Teaching Academy. Had
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the opportunity to read, to write books in addition
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to that. Currently, I do. consult, but I also
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I live here in Phoenix now. So I did do my time
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in Idaho. I love Idaho. It just wasn't for me.
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And I decided that let's let's move back to a
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larger area. So I'm in Phoenix. I've been here
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for about two years. And currently, I supervise
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a behavior support program here in South Phoenix.
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Cool. And just out of curiosity, you mentioned
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the podcast as you've kind of moved into the
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consulting and you've done the podcast, those
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are those are somewhat simultaneous, right? So
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you had started the podcast, you said 2018. Mm
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hmm. Yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, no, just
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curious, like how that kind of informed some
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of the things that you're doing along that same
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trajectory of years. Yeah, absolutely. So and
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I never started the podcast with any kind of
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business or goals like that in mind. I was just
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trying to navigate. the world. So like I would
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have students come up to me and say, oh, I feel
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like I've been mistreated. Oh, somebody said
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something to me. I didn't know how to respond.
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And I didn't know what to tell them because I
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grew up in the South and growing up in the South,
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things are a lot different. The way that you're
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treated by folks that do not look like me is
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very blatant, is very open and like, you know.
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But when I was out there, it was like a lot of
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stuff that was very subtle. It was like passive
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aggressive type of comments and things like that,
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or just a lot of assumptions that were made based
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off of stereotypes. So I wanted to learn how
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to not only figure out life for myself, for my
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students, for my own children, but I want to
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share it to the world. And it wasn't long before
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people started to reach out and listen to it.
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And I was like, oh. I remember the very first
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keynote. Again, I was not planning. I'm not a
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speaker. At this time, this is not something
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I was doing. I was just legit just trying to
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share content. And I had someone reach out and
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say, hey, I heard that you work with Native American
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population. We are at a district where there's
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a huge population demographic -wise of students
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that are part of this tribe. Would you come and
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speak to our group? Because the students do not
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look like the staff. And so yeah, that was my
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first gig. I didn't even know how to chart. I
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didn't know how to set up. Uh, I didn't know
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anything as far as like the business side of
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stuff, but I came on out there and I didn't plan.
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I'm not gonna lie. I didn't plan my travels.
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This was in like a rural town in Oklahoma. And
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I just assumed that I could just call a taxi
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in the morning or Uber and get my way from the
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hotel to the venue. And then when I started checking
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the Uber app, I realized, wait, there's no Uber
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out here. It was like, you just assume it was
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nationwide. I thought it was a thing. And there
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was no Uber. So then I'm going to the hotel guests.
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I'm like, can you, or at least the hotel information,
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I'm asking them, I need to get to this place.
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How do I get there? She's like, well, there's
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one taxi. You can call it. Here's the number.
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And they gave me the number, but it just happened
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to be the day that that person was off. So again,
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there's one taxi and he took, he was off that
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day. So I'm like, okay, I'm frantic. I have to
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get about an hour's way. So I'm like, okay, is
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there enterprise? Is there a rental place? And
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so I found a rental car place, but again, I needed
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a way over there to the rental car place was
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about two miles down the road. So I literally
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asked hotel guests. as they were eating a breakfast,
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complimentary breakfast. I'm asking people, tapping
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on them on the shoulder. And I finally, I bought
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the third person. I asked him, he's like, oh,
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I'm an educator too. I sell resources, ed tech,
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blah, blah, blah. I'll run you over to Enterprise.
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So he took me to Enterprise. I got me a rental
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car, drove over to this venue. I was late, but
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I drove to the venue and that was my first experience.
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I learned a lot. I learned about billing. I learned
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about making sure that you plan your itineraries
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correctly. You can't just assume stuff will be
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there and available for you. I mean, it was just
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a big lesson, but it just kind of things took
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off from there. And I just started doing more
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and more work. And again, people will listen
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to the show. So a lot of the business and the
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consulting partnerships that I've created have
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been as a result of either a book, but before
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that it was a lot of it came from the podcast.
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Sheldon, I mentioned a little bit before we came
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on, David and I are both based out of Minnesota.
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And there is really, and as an attendee of a
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Lutheran church in Minnesota, there's really
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nothing more Lutheran than potluck. Our whole
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lives in Minnesota at times seem to revolve around
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that. And it brings us to the, I guess it brings
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me to my question here about your book, What
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are you bringing to the potluck? I think it just
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seems like a fantastic metaphor of everyone has
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their own backgrounds and experiences and skill
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sets and talents and experiences that they bring
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to the table. What kind of struck you with that
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metaphor to lead you to write a book about that?
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I'm glad you brought this up because I'm really
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excited to talk about it. I want you to follow
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me. Think about it as a metaphor. The original
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title for this book before I started working
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with Solution Tree was Don't Bring Boxed Macaroni
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to the Potluck. That was the original title.
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Okay. And it followed me. I see you smiling.
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And so the challenge was and the idea behind
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it was again, kind of like you said, I grew up
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church. Every week we had potluck. That was the
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expectation and you knew the go -to places or
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you knew what dishes to get from because you
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know the regular folks Okay, sister Johnson.
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She's gonna have her famous sweet potato this
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and brother Jones He's gonna bring in his mac
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and cheese like we knew What to expect when we
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showed up to these potluck everybody brought
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their their go -to dish They put their own flair.
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They put their swag into it. They put their elbow
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into it if that makes sense, right and so If
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you happen to stumble across a boxed macaroni
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casserole, something very basic that you know,
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it didn't take a lot of effort until you boil
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some water, you mix a little powder and the noodles
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and voila, you got your dish. And it usually
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would be the dish that was left over, right?
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So everything else is gone and you might see
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a scoop that was taken out of this boxed macaroni.
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So my mindset behind this, when I was thinking
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about creating a sense of belonging, if I'm a
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school leader, what happens when I bring in this
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special event and I bring in something that's
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very simple and doesn't seem like I put a lot
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of effort into it? So when we're trying to create
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a sense of belonging where every student feels
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accepted, supported, and included, we have to
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bring our best. We should not be trying to rush
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through. We should not be trying to, in a pinch,
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put something together and say, we did it. No,
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we're going to bring in our famous whatever that
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might be. So that could be your famous wings.
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It could be your famous lasagna or whatever casserole
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it is, but we're bringing our best to it. Here's
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the challenge. People kept thinking, like all
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the peer reviews, They're sitting there reading,
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oh, boxed macaroni, but I love boxed macaroni.
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I love, like sometimes that's all I can do. And
00:12:58.820 --> 00:13:00.240
then I was like, well, you know, when it comes
00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:03.379
to equity, if you, you know, if that's all you
00:13:03.379 --> 00:13:05.519
can afford is boxed macaroni, that should be
00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:08.840
okay. And I kept trying to explain and help folks
00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:12.440
understand this is metaphor. I'm not saying literally
00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:16.419
boxed macaroni. I'm trying to explain to you,
00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:20.240
let's keep it real. Boxed macaroni is a quick
00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.820
thing. That's not you don't have to buy a lot
00:13:22.820 --> 00:13:24.879
of ingredients. You literally buy a box and you
00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:28.120
boil some water. So if that's our approach to
00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:31.279
education, that's a problem. That's not creating
00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:34.519
an intentional approach to a sense of belonging.
00:13:34.659 --> 00:13:38.019
So we went back and forth with the title. We
00:13:38.019 --> 00:13:41.120
settled on what are you bringing to the potluck,
00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:44.440
which again goes to are we bringing our best
00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:47.360
effort into the potluck? As you said, Jeremy.
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:50.340
You know that you're used to going to potlucks
00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:52.700
every week or other folks that are listening,
00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:54.539
they're used to going to potlucks every week.
00:13:54.620 --> 00:13:56.639
And if you're one of those contributors that
00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:59.440
brings that potluck dish, maybe you have your
00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:02.120
go -to versus are you bringing in just plates,
00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:05.820
napkins and silverware, or maybe bring in a juice,
00:14:05.899 --> 00:14:08.200
all right? So what are you bringing to the potluck
00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:10.700
when it comes to your effort in creating a sense
00:14:10.700 --> 00:14:13.590
of belonging? Yeah, and I could see how that
00:14:13.590 --> 00:14:16.070
would be really important even you know to continue
00:14:16.070 --> 00:14:19.029
with the metaphor a little bit You know, I like
00:14:19.029 --> 00:14:23.509
my chili nice and spicy and so, you know do it
00:14:23.509 --> 00:14:26.509
and if I'm gonna bring chili to You know that
00:14:26.509 --> 00:14:29.549
potluck, you know I want people to taste it as
00:14:29.549 --> 00:14:32.669
I think it should be tasted and if it challenges
00:14:32.669 --> 00:14:35.769
them outside of their comfort zone You know,
00:14:35.769 --> 00:14:39.710
I think that's okay Yeah, absolutely. And and
00:14:39.710 --> 00:14:42.879
that's the point like If it's challenging, that's
00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:45.360
great. Um, but again, it's, it's what you like,
00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:48.500
right? You like your chili. Spicing and I, and
00:14:48.500 --> 00:14:51.580
I like spicy chili too. So the, but again, it's
00:14:51.580 --> 00:14:53.740
you putting in your flare, you're putting a little
00:14:53.740 --> 00:14:55.620
bit of love, sprinkling some love in that chili
00:14:55.620 --> 00:14:58.059
and that's what you're presenting. And so that's
00:14:58.059 --> 00:14:59.740
what, and that's, again, that's, that was the
00:14:59.740 --> 00:15:04.399
whole point of the title. Uh, it does use references
00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:07.580
to ingredients and kind of the whole potluck
00:15:07.580 --> 00:15:10.000
theme is throughout the book. But again, some
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:12.200
people were kind of taking it too literal and
00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:15.120
not understanding the metaphor, which I just,
00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:16.919
you know, going through and having to try to
00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:19.059
explain it. I could understand the publisher
00:15:19.059 --> 00:15:22.080
standpoint. But yeah, that was the original title.
00:15:22.860 --> 00:15:27.480
But I think it even works to challenge people's
00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:30.279
perceptions and assumptions in a school climate
00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:32.700
and a school culture that it's OK to bring in
00:15:32.700 --> 00:15:36.620
a little bit of spice to that as well. Yes, yes.
00:15:36.889 --> 00:15:40.490
And that's the thing, sometimes we get hung up
00:15:40.490 --> 00:15:45.250
on semantics because we were in a society where
00:15:45.250 --> 00:15:47.850
certain words can't be said, certain things can't
00:15:47.850 --> 00:15:49.909
be done, or you're going against quote unquote
00:15:49.909 --> 00:15:53.049
traditional practices. And here's the thing,
00:15:53.370 --> 00:15:55.710
when COVID happened, I honestly thought this
00:15:55.710 --> 00:15:58.610
was an opportunity for us to revisit what our
00:15:58.610 --> 00:16:01.100
educational system looks like. Because this was
00:16:01.100 --> 00:16:03.600
a time where a lot of folks realized, oh, wait,
00:16:03.620 --> 00:16:05.179
there's a lot of people that don't have technology
00:16:05.179 --> 00:16:07.580
or they don't have the devices or they don't
00:16:07.580 --> 00:16:10.240
have access to drive to the school to pick up
00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.100
their packets and then come back. Like there
00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:14.840
was a lot of stuff that people discovered. I
00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:17.600
said, okay, now here's the opportunity that we
00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.600
have to revisit and look at our education. And
00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:22.379
there were some changes and there are a lot of
00:16:22.379 --> 00:16:24.799
changes that did take place, but slowly over
00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:27.899
time, our educational system has kind of crept
00:16:27.899 --> 00:16:31.379
back into the original. framework of what you
00:16:31.379 --> 00:16:33.860
grew up with and what I grew up with, it's still
00:16:33.860 --> 00:16:36.580
prevalent. So when you are trying to do things
00:16:36.580 --> 00:16:39.200
that goes against the grain, that puts a little
00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:42.940
bit of spice or flair into the system, those
00:16:42.940 --> 00:16:45.500
things get challenged. Those type of things are
00:16:45.500 --> 00:16:48.399
questioned and you look like an oddball. But
00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:50.580
at the end of the day, Jeremy, I know that you're
00:16:50.580 --> 00:16:53.120
doing the best that you can or you're thinking
00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.340
about the students first. But just because Your
00:16:56.340 --> 00:16:58.840
approach isn't what everyone else is used to.
00:16:58.899 --> 00:17:00.879
It looks like you're going against the grain
00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:02.340
and people want to challenge you and there's
00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:05.539
all this pushback, but I'm with you, man. If
00:17:05.539 --> 00:17:08.740
our test scores are the way they are and we complain
00:17:08.740 --> 00:17:11.460
about the opportunity and achievement gaps and
00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:13.019
like these are conversations that we have on
00:17:13.019 --> 00:17:15.839
a daily basis, why not try something different?
00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:20.220
Yeah, and one of the things too, Sheldon, is
00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:24.359
you spent time both as a teacher and as administrator
00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:28.930
and So you've obviously seen like a lot of classrooms,
00:17:29.150 --> 00:17:31.829
right? So in classroom management, you have your
00:17:31.829 --> 00:17:35.589
book, Meaningful Classroom Management. And how
00:17:35.589 --> 00:17:41.950
do you shift thinking from like building a culture
00:17:41.950 --> 00:17:47.230
versus just like more control or rules, like
00:17:47.230 --> 00:17:49.930
a bunch of rules. The rules are there. Everybody
00:17:49.930 --> 00:17:51.910
just follows the rules. What's the difference
00:17:51.910 --> 00:17:57.450
between how either culture or control impacts
00:17:57.450 --> 00:18:01.769
classroom management. Good question. Like right
00:18:01.769 --> 00:18:05.470
now our schools and this interesting because
00:18:05.470 --> 00:18:07.630
you know we're a lot of us are getting back to
00:18:07.630 --> 00:18:10.150
I don't know how y 'all are as far as Minnesota
00:18:10.150 --> 00:18:12.210
when y 'all start school but here in Phoenix
00:18:12.210 --> 00:18:14.130
we're starting like this week like a lot of schools
00:18:14.130 --> 00:18:16.549
are starting this week and next. I see your face
00:18:16.549 --> 00:18:18.349
I'm assuming y 'all have a little bit of time.
00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:23.619
But we're starting like tomorrow, like a lot
00:18:23.619 --> 00:18:25.660
of schools, like I know people who have started
00:18:25.660 --> 00:18:27.940
this week or they're starting this week. My son,
00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:30.799
he actually starts on Friday. And then my daughter,
00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:34.660
she starts next Monday. So like the back to school
00:18:34.660 --> 00:18:36.740
conversations, even though we get upset when
00:18:36.740 --> 00:18:39.000
we're in Walmart and we start seeing back to
00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.579
school supplies happening like in May and stuff.
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:46.240
But the point is we start talking about Luna's
00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:48.740
first day of school. You own those kids, you
00:18:48.740 --> 00:18:51.180
know, you don't let up. and otherwise you're
00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:53.319
gonna lose them. Like that's the conversation
00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:55.579
I was taught. That's the conversation a lot.
00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:58.720
I hear these conversations all the time. The
00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:02.420
idea of, you know, make sure that they know exactly
00:19:02.420 --> 00:19:05.500
who you are and otherwise you will not have the
00:19:05.500 --> 00:19:09.400
control of the classroom. So what happens is
00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:11.940
our students, they learn compliance. So they'll
00:19:11.940 --> 00:19:15.140
do stuff. for you because if I don't do it, there's
00:19:15.140 --> 00:19:17.220
going to be a consequence behind it. So some
00:19:17.220 --> 00:19:19.720
of them might be operating in a level of fear.
00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:23.079
Some of them might just be operating in a level
00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:27.039
of compliance. There is no real buy in into the
00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:29.859
to this classroom. And so what I talk about in
00:19:29.859 --> 00:19:34.200
my book is revisiting or relooking at how we
00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.109
do our classroom. management. I don't like to
00:19:37.109 --> 00:19:39.329
utilize the term clash of management. I prefer
00:19:39.329 --> 00:19:41.730
something more of a community engagement or community
00:19:41.730 --> 00:19:45.450
agreement rather is how I like to approach it
00:19:45.450 --> 00:19:47.890
because that's to me is more student centered.
00:19:48.329 --> 00:19:50.410
So like if we are already on the first day of
00:19:50.410 --> 00:19:54.029
school, have established all the norms and expectations,
00:19:54.289 --> 00:19:57.509
raise your finger to go to the bathroom and cross
00:19:57.509 --> 00:19:59.509
your fingers if you need to do this, like all
00:19:59.509 --> 00:20:03.809
these different signs or protocols. And again,
00:20:03.809 --> 00:20:06.650
if a student doesn't do what you're asking them
00:20:06.650 --> 00:20:10.089
to do, then they're being defied maybe, or maybe
00:20:10.089 --> 00:20:13.490
they're being disruptive. Let's look at things
00:20:13.490 --> 00:20:15.750
a little different. And if I have some time,
00:20:15.890 --> 00:20:18.430
I want to give a little bit more context behind
00:20:18.430 --> 00:20:22.670
the basis of the book. I did some research on
00:20:22.670 --> 00:20:26.849
this gentleman. His name was Gert Hofstad. He
00:20:26.849 --> 00:20:30.329
was someone that did a lot of research back in
00:20:30.329 --> 00:20:34.549
the 70s on the company IBM. So this is a while
00:20:34.549 --> 00:20:37.190
ago because it's IBM, right? And so what he did
00:20:37.190 --> 00:20:40.170
was he noticed the different behaviors of the
00:20:40.170 --> 00:20:43.130
employees. And he came up with these cultural
00:20:43.130 --> 00:20:45.650
dimensions. And out of the cultural dimensions,
00:20:46.029 --> 00:20:49.170
one of them was the individualism versus collectivism.
00:20:49.589 --> 00:20:51.690
And what he found was in the United States and
00:20:51.690 --> 00:20:54.789
England, some other countries, we rely heavily
00:20:54.789 --> 00:20:58.230
on the individual approach, right? So personal
00:20:58.230 --> 00:21:00.609
achievement. So when we think about our educational
00:21:00.609 --> 00:21:05.430
system, we are big on GPAs. We are big on the
00:21:05.430 --> 00:21:08.710
valedictorian, the salutatorium, the top of the
00:21:08.710 --> 00:21:13.109
class. So it's often individually based. It's
00:21:13.109 --> 00:21:15.990
all about the direct communication and independency.
00:21:16.049 --> 00:21:19.670
So it's not uncommon for a teacher to tell students,
00:21:20.029 --> 00:21:22.309
okay, go back to your seat and work on this quietly
00:21:22.309 --> 00:21:24.890
or work on this individually. But what happens
00:21:24.890 --> 00:21:28.940
when a student That gets up out of their seat
00:21:28.940 --> 00:21:31.779
goes to one of his best friends and says hey
00:21:31.779 --> 00:21:34.559
Johnny Let me help you out or what did you get
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:37.079
on number three or? They're just trying to like
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:38.940
they're whispering to that person and the teacher
00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:42.259
sees oh I told y 'all to sit at your desk quietly
00:21:42.259 --> 00:21:45.440
and now you're out of your seat talking to your
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.880
best friend and Now you're in so there could
00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:50.539
be a back -and -forth exchange and it just it
00:21:50.539 --> 00:21:54.980
could escalate what Gert Hofstad understood was
00:21:54.980 --> 00:21:58.160
there are folks that come from a collective background,
00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:00.660
right? So even though the United States relies
00:22:00.660 --> 00:22:03.039
heavily on individualism, there's a group of
00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:05.579
folks or community or culturally. There's folks
00:22:05.579 --> 00:22:10.220
that prefer group work. They prefer harmony and
00:22:10.220 --> 00:22:12.880
group. They collaborate and learn like everything.
00:22:12.980 --> 00:22:16.160
Your stuff is my stuff. And that's their personality.
00:22:16.299 --> 00:22:19.160
That's their cultural background. And so there's
00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:22.400
a clash. So sometimes there's a mismatch between
00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:26.619
what a teacher is identifying as misbehavior
00:22:26.619 --> 00:22:29.960
versus a student's preference or what they're
00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:34.160
more familiar with. I give the example, sometimes
00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:37.240
we talk about how students, we have the expectation
00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:41.079
for students to look you in the eye and shake
00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:43.059
your hand. Like that's Western norms. Like when
00:22:43.059 --> 00:22:45.079
you greet somebody, you look them in the eye,
00:22:45.140 --> 00:22:47.380
firm handshake. But then there's other cultures
00:22:47.380 --> 00:22:51.579
that no, that's not how we show a level of respect.
00:22:51.700 --> 00:22:54.119
We actually bow our heads to our elders or we
00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:57.700
actually don't look them in the eye. And so sometimes
00:22:57.700 --> 00:23:00.960
we misinterpret behavior. And as we misinterpret
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.440
that behavior, then students can end up getting
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.079
in trouble, which they may not have had to be
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:10.019
getting into trouble, but it's just more of a
00:23:10.019 --> 00:23:12.599
misinterpretation of what the behavior is. So
00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:16.079
that's what the book is all about is reframing
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:19.259
a way that we can balance the collective students
00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:21.539
and your individual students. I'm not saying,
00:23:21.619 --> 00:23:23.700
oh, just shift everything over to the collective
00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:26.160
work. No, we need to have, make sure that we're
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:28.640
having a balance and not 80 or 90 % of the stuff
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:31.799
is single work. And all the students are walking
00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:33.660
to the classroom and they're all sitting in rows.
00:23:34.059 --> 00:23:36.200
No, is there any type of opportunities for them
00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:37.859
to work together in groups? Because there's a
00:23:37.859 --> 00:23:41.319
group of students that prefer that style or approach
00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.769
to learning. In the I like how you laid out the
00:23:45.769 --> 00:23:50.789
the tension there between the two different approaches
00:23:50.789 --> 00:23:55.109
or cultural backgrounds and how when students
00:23:55.109 --> 00:23:57.509
come into a classroom and actually this I thought
00:23:57.509 --> 00:24:00.309
of this too is because you know, especially when
00:24:00.309 --> 00:24:02.230
you get more into the upper level right like
00:24:02.230 --> 00:24:05.210
high school things like that. Yeah, students
00:24:05.210 --> 00:24:07.329
are moving from one class to the next right throughout
00:24:07.329 --> 00:24:11.339
the day and so there's there's all those. Those
00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:13.259
shifts that are constantly happening throughout
00:24:13.259 --> 00:24:16.000
the day even just moving from one teacher to
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:20.240
the next so as you look at those Those things
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:23.480
that are intention or like if you have let's
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:27.880
say as students move from a teacher that's more
00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:31.539
like Focused on the individualism side and then
00:24:31.539 --> 00:24:33.240
next period they move to one where it's like
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:36.200
more on the collectivist side Just from the teacher
00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:40.690
perspective, right? As they as they do that,
00:24:40.690 --> 00:24:44.069
is there a way to help those things kind of like
00:24:44.069 --> 00:24:47.029
work together or how would you approach? Like
00:24:47.029 --> 00:24:49.650
let's say you're going to take all those teachers
00:24:49.650 --> 00:24:52.609
that had those different approaches. What would
00:24:52.609 --> 00:24:56.210
you have them work on or who to help them understand
00:24:56.210 --> 00:24:58.269
the opposite side? I guess is what I'm saying.
00:24:59.250 --> 00:25:02.890
Self awareness starts first, right? So in my
00:25:02.890 --> 00:25:05.369
book I talk about like what are you more? What
00:25:05.369 --> 00:25:07.390
do you lean more towards? Right? Because we tend
00:25:07.390 --> 00:25:10.569
to teach the way we. we're taught right and so
00:25:10.569 --> 00:25:13.710
when we become educators we probably pull some
00:25:13.710 --> 00:25:16.049
of the stuff that we used to do or some of the
00:25:16.049 --> 00:25:18.269
tactics that we used to utilize in school like
00:25:18.269 --> 00:25:20.549
i remember when i first started teaching one
00:25:20.549 --> 00:25:23.289
of the things i used to do was i i would tell
00:25:23.289 --> 00:25:28.529
the kids all right handful of y 'all are Misbehaving
00:25:28.529 --> 00:25:30.150
y 'all was talking out of place y 'all talking
00:25:30.150 --> 00:25:33.089
out of turn, uh, no recess for everybody, right?
00:25:33.130 --> 00:25:35.230
So like the whole class gets punished because
00:25:35.230 --> 00:25:37.470
there's three or four kids That and that was
00:25:37.470 --> 00:25:39.470
one of those three when I was a kid I was one
00:25:39.470 --> 00:25:42.849
of those three or four kids that would ruin recess
00:25:42.849 --> 00:25:46.329
for everybody, right? Or I would put people kids
00:25:46.329 --> 00:25:48.630
names on the board and then I put a check next
00:25:48.630 --> 00:25:50.690
to them and you know They did more and I put
00:25:50.690 --> 00:25:52.730
another check like these are things that I grew
00:25:52.730 --> 00:25:55.569
up on and I was utilizing these same strategies
00:25:55.569 --> 00:25:58.250
When I first started teaching Right, because
00:25:58.250 --> 00:26:00.289
that was what I was familiar with. Yeah, again,
00:26:00.289 --> 00:26:03.769
I went to teacher school, but I pulled from my
00:26:03.769 --> 00:26:06.569
bag of stuff that I knew I was very familiar
00:26:06.569 --> 00:26:10.799
with. So I talk about, let's identify. What are
00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.420
some of the tactics that you prefer? Or what
00:26:13.420 --> 00:26:15.599
are some of the strategies that you prefer in
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:17.819
your classroom? And so it asks you a series of
00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:20.839
questions. OK, do you do a lot of worksheets?
00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:23.039
Do you do a lot of this? Do you do a lot of that?
00:26:23.319 --> 00:26:26.660
And then that teacher can determine, OK, you
00:26:26.660 --> 00:26:28.460
know what? I'm actually more collectivist leaning.
00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:30.940
Or you know what? I'm actually a little bit more
00:26:30.940 --> 00:26:33.859
individualistic leaning. I would start there.
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:36.400
Get some self -awareness and find out where you
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:38.900
are, where some of the areas for growth. And
00:26:38.900 --> 00:26:41.640
then once I decide, OK, I'm more individual leaning.
00:26:42.140 --> 00:26:44.099
OK, I need to bring in some more collectivism
00:26:44.099 --> 00:26:47.539
work or vice versa. But that does take some time
00:26:47.539 --> 00:26:49.660
to be intentional again with your approach. So
00:26:49.660 --> 00:26:52.539
we're assuming, David, that these individuals
00:26:52.539 --> 00:26:55.599
like you're talking about are wanting to see
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:58.559
where they're at and wanting to be a little bit
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.319
more intentional with their approaches so that
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:04.079
they are mixing in a good flavor. And then also.
00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:06.440
you can ask your students these same questions,
00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:08.220
because every classroom is going to look different,
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:11.099
like you said. So you may have a roster where
00:27:11.099 --> 00:27:14.519
you have 80 % of your students are more on the
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.259
collectivist side. You might have 20%, you know
00:27:17.259 --> 00:27:19.900
what I'm saying? So you can also ask these same
00:27:19.900 --> 00:27:21.960
type of questions to your students in the beginning
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:24.500
of the school year so that you can grasp a better
00:27:24.500 --> 00:27:28.559
concept of, okay, so my third hour English class
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:31.099
looks this way. Well, my fourth hour English
00:27:31.099 --> 00:27:34.440
class looks the other way. And so now I'm being
00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:37.700
able to provide strategies and stuff, activities,
00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:39.980
things in my classroom that are going to really
00:27:39.980 --> 00:27:44.380
tap into the majority. And then also I'm bringing
00:27:44.380 --> 00:27:46.720
in a nice little balance, but that balance is
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:49.000
from an equitable standpoint where I'm looking
00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:51.420
at, okay, I have this certain percentage. And
00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:53.059
now this is the type of work I'm going to give.
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:55.759
I bet you, if you are more intentional in that
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:58.400
approach, you will see a difference with the
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:00.700
engagement that you're getting with the amount
00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:04.099
of collaboration or whatever that looks like
00:28:04.099 --> 00:28:06.839
for you. If we are intentional with our approach.
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:10.579
Yeah, I can really get what you're saying here.
00:28:10.579 --> 00:28:13.799
And I think a lot of it is, and I'm going to
00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:15.759
go back to where you were first talking about,
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:18.400
you're going to start teaching the way that the
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:21.450
teachers that you looked up to taught you. and
00:28:21.450 --> 00:28:25.250
I definitely remember that and I greatly admired
00:28:25.250 --> 00:28:27.069
the teachers that I had throughout high school
00:28:27.069 --> 00:28:29.829
and I did model myself when I started teaching
00:28:29.829 --> 00:28:33.490
history as well. You know that it was very much
00:28:33.490 --> 00:28:35.789
the same mode and I remembered the stories and
00:28:35.789 --> 00:28:37.970
I loved the stories and I shared the stories
00:28:37.970 --> 00:28:42.000
but then Boy, it was a lot of doing notes up
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.740
at the in front of the class and the kids had
00:28:44.740 --> 00:28:47.619
to write down everything I wrote down. And, you
00:28:47.619 --> 00:28:50.059
know, if a kid misbehaved, it send them out into
00:28:50.059 --> 00:28:52.200
the hallway or it's, you know, and then find
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:54.559
time to talk to them later kind of thing. But
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:56.680
I think it probably took me maybe four or five
00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.619
years into my teaching career when I started
00:28:59.619 --> 00:29:02.019
to have a little bit bigger perspective than
00:29:02.019 --> 00:29:05.160
just what I was doing and put that focus more
00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:07.859
on what was the experience of the kids in my
00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:12.539
class. And I think when I did that, it was more
00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:15.710
about creating those relationships with the students
00:29:15.710 --> 00:29:18.410
to begin with, making sure that they felt like
00:29:18.410 --> 00:29:21.190
they belonged in the class and starting to make
00:29:21.190 --> 00:29:24.470
changes. Like you even said, hour by hour, sometimes
00:29:24.470 --> 00:29:26.589
just knowing the makeup of the class that you
00:29:26.589 --> 00:29:29.089
have, which I think that that sense of belonging
00:29:29.089 --> 00:29:32.250
that that kids start to feel in that class is
00:29:32.250 --> 00:29:34.170
really what's going to connect them to that learning.
00:29:34.609 --> 00:29:36.890
And I think where I'm going with this here is
00:29:36.890 --> 00:29:39.210
you've got a consulting thing, the Purposeful
00:29:39.210 --> 00:29:42.630
Teaching Academy going on. You know, like it
00:29:42.630 --> 00:29:45.059
is Is that kind of who you're the type of teacher
00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:47.380
you're looking to target the type of school culture
00:29:47.380 --> 00:29:50.440
that you want to get invited into? Or is it a
00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:53.480
bigger audience than that for your platform?
00:29:54.539 --> 00:29:56.759
At the end of the day, belonging. Let's start
00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:00.599
there. So I do a lot of belonging work and again,
00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:03.619
making sure that each student feels accepted,
00:30:04.039 --> 00:30:06.180
supported and included. That's the goal. We want
00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:08.799
them to have all three of those things. Uh, not
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:10.960
just feeling accepted, not just feeling supported,
00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:13.460
not just feeling included because there's that
00:30:13.460 --> 00:30:17.579
famous, there's a James Baldwin talks about if
00:30:17.579 --> 00:30:20.339
you're going to include someone, you know, how
00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:21.839
are you including someone? Are you including
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:26.220
them into a burning house? Right? So if I'm including
00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:29.220
students into this culture community, that's
00:30:29.220 --> 00:30:33.740
not good. What does that mean? So it's important
00:30:33.740 --> 00:30:36.319
that we are making sure that they fill all three
00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:39.119
of those things. So I approach it from a sense
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:42.799
of belonging, which does include how we approach
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:45.460
our classrooms and also how we approach our leadership.
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:48.740
So you mentioned two different books. One book
00:30:48.740 --> 00:30:50.960
is more for the teacher side of things and the
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:53.700
other book is for, so the potluck book is more
00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:55.579
for the leadership in a meaningful classroom.
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:58.519
Management is going to be more for the teacher
00:30:58.519 --> 00:31:01.480
side of things. But if we combine those all of
00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:04.440
that and from my consulting side of things, that's
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:06.680
the ultimate approach is creating a sense of
00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:09.920
belonging in your school. Yeah, and there's a
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:11.799
lot of professional learning that's out there,
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:14.339
and I know David and I do provide some of that
00:31:14.339 --> 00:31:18.740
to teachers in schools in our different regions
00:31:18.740 --> 00:31:22.220
of Minnesota, but you know, what's a principle
00:31:22.220 --> 00:31:25.000
if they choose to bring you in or an administrator,
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:26.900
if they bring you into their building, what are
00:31:26.900 --> 00:31:28.400
they going to get from you that they can't find
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:31.240
somewhere else? Yeah, that's that's a good question.
00:31:31.240 --> 00:31:34.519
I would say I tried it so first of all, I'm not
00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:37.339
one of those one of those consultants as abrasive
00:31:37.339 --> 00:31:39.019
that's gonna tell you oh you're everything you're
00:31:39.019 --> 00:31:42.180
doing is wrong and y 'all are a bunch of You
00:31:42.180 --> 00:31:43.700
know why y 'all here? Why y 'all should never
00:31:43.700 --> 00:31:47.640
be in front of kids? I've seen I've seen Consulting
00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:51.359
like that and unfortunately, but my goal is one
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:53.750
not gonna be a sitting git One of the things
00:31:53.750 --> 00:31:57.029
I have found has been scenarios. So over my years,
00:31:57.549 --> 00:32:00.849
people are constantly asking me for scripts because
00:32:00.849 --> 00:32:03.390
there's different situations that are realistic
00:32:03.390 --> 00:32:06.130
and they ask me, give me word for word what I'm
00:32:06.130 --> 00:32:09.349
supposed to say. And I say, okay, I can help
00:32:09.349 --> 00:32:12.410
you with certain things, but let's walk through
00:32:12.410 --> 00:32:15.430
it. So a lot of trainings that I give nowadays,
00:32:15.650 --> 00:32:20.240
let's just say it's... how to make students feel
00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:23.819
included, right? And so I'll talk to them about,
00:32:24.019 --> 00:32:26.500
okay, here's a scenario. How would you approach
00:32:26.500 --> 00:32:29.819
it? And so sometimes they're working in groups.
00:32:30.259 --> 00:32:32.339
Sometimes they're working individually. It just
00:32:32.339 --> 00:32:36.299
kind of depends. And we'll break that down. A
00:32:36.299 --> 00:32:38.680
lot of them, they just, a lot of... the work
00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:41.700
that I do, people want to know how to respond
00:32:41.700 --> 00:32:44.500
in situations. So not only do I support them
00:32:44.500 --> 00:32:46.059
in that way, and then I also talk about, well,
00:32:46.539 --> 00:32:49.519
how can we be proactive as well? So we're not
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:51.799
just waiting for something to happen, but we're
00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:54.380
also looking at it from, okay, again, I created
00:32:54.380 --> 00:32:56.599
a community where students feel as if they could
00:32:56.599 --> 00:32:59.579
be themselves, not just at home, not two different
00:32:59.579 --> 00:33:02.380
people. They get to be themselves at school.
00:33:02.589 --> 00:33:05.069
and they get to be themselves at home as well.
00:33:05.150 --> 00:33:07.150
How do we create that community and culture?
00:33:07.329 --> 00:33:10.049
So that's what a principal would get. I would
00:33:10.049 --> 00:33:13.230
work with them in regards to creating some buy
00:33:13.230 --> 00:33:15.210
-in and then not just buy -in ownership from
00:33:15.210 --> 00:33:17.369
their staff because it's going to require some
00:33:17.369 --> 00:33:21.089
change. Sometimes people will say stuff like,
00:33:21.170 --> 00:33:23.450
oh, we've always done it this way. And so now
00:33:23.450 --> 00:33:25.509
you're coming in and you're asking them to change,
00:33:25.630 --> 00:33:27.490
to look at different perspectives, look at things
00:33:27.490 --> 00:33:30.490
differently from the lens of your students and
00:33:30.490 --> 00:33:33.289
their families. Uh, and so that does, that's
00:33:33.289 --> 00:33:35.369
going to require some pushback. It just always
00:33:35.369 --> 00:33:38.930
does. Um, but I support school leaders in that
00:33:38.930 --> 00:33:40.769
capacity of like, okay, here's a change. Here's
00:33:40.769 --> 00:33:42.390
a structure that we're going to use. Here's a
00:33:42.390 --> 00:33:44.369
vision that we're going to create. Uh, and then
00:33:44.369 --> 00:33:45.750
here's the ownership that you're going to put
00:33:45.750 --> 00:33:48.349
in with your whole entire school community. Uh,
00:33:48.369 --> 00:33:50.410
and let's do this work. So that's, that's what's
00:33:50.410 --> 00:33:53.369
going to be different or unique from, uh, maybe
00:33:53.369 --> 00:33:56.109
some of the others out there. Yeah. And Sheldon,
00:33:56.130 --> 00:33:58.690
you're obviously in front of leaders a lot now,
00:33:58.769 --> 00:34:01.890
right? Um, If we could take you back for a second
00:34:01.890 --> 00:34:06.089
to your school administrator days, what what
00:34:06.089 --> 00:34:08.989
surprised you the most from that? Like when you
00:34:08.989 --> 00:34:11.269
first started, like what was something about
00:34:11.269 --> 00:34:17.250
that role that just surprised you? As first thing
00:34:17.250 --> 00:34:25.429
that stood out is. Bias is I was in a place old.
00:34:25.820 --> 00:34:28.659
My second school that I was at, it was in Oregon,
00:34:28.780 --> 00:34:32.619
actually. And I just remember there was, okay,
00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:35.920
I'll give you an example. Because I was making
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:39.000
some assumptions and I really had to look into
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:42.119
things differently. So I show up to school one
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:44.340
day and again, Oregon's very agricultural based.
00:34:44.539 --> 00:34:46.579
I mean, lush trees. I mean, it's a beautiful
00:34:46.579 --> 00:34:51.760
place. And I had a parent. They came to the school
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:55.760
with a wheelbarrow full of watermelons. And they
00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:59.480
came up to me and he said, you know, Mr. Aikens,
00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:04.739
I have all these watermelons for you. And I,
00:35:04.739 --> 00:35:08.699
again, was a little thrown off. I was like, what
00:35:08.699 --> 00:35:11.119
is he coming at me for about these watermelons?
00:35:11.139 --> 00:35:13.659
Like, I identify as a black person and that's
00:35:13.659 --> 00:35:17.000
a stereotype. And so I honestly thought he was
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:20.719
coming at me wrong in my mind. But then the more
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:25.380
I talk, so I was kind of like, what? And I guess
00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:28.880
he could tell something was off, but then I could
00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:31.400
see it in his face, in his demeanor. He really
00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:33.539
didn't mean he literally had extra watermelons.
00:35:33.619 --> 00:35:36.980
He was offering the principal. It didn't matter
00:35:36.980 --> 00:35:38.860
what I looked like. He would have still offered
00:35:38.860 --> 00:35:42.019
the principal extra watermelons. And so that
00:35:42.019 --> 00:35:44.440
was one of the things I had to realize is that
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:48.820
not everybody is coming at you in a way that
00:35:48.820 --> 00:35:51.440
might be deemed as offensive. A lot of times
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:54.019
people don't mean anything by certain things,
00:35:54.860 --> 00:35:57.219
like stuff that they do, they had the best intentions.
00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:00.320
And he was one of the most supportive parents
00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:03.360
on campus. Like he used to come by, fix stuff,
00:36:03.639 --> 00:36:05.920
handyman style, wooden chart. Like he was a stay
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:07.920
-at -home dad, so he would just do a lot of things
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:10.900
around the school. And I just didn't know him
00:36:10.900 --> 00:36:14.719
that much, one of our first encounters, and I
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:18.360
had to realize my biases, my assumptions about
00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:21.900
someone, little information, I don't know enough.
00:36:22.139 --> 00:36:25.179
Um, maybe really spend a little bit more time
00:36:25.179 --> 00:36:28.599
to think about what their approach is or where
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:31.179
they're coming from with how they're interacting
00:36:31.179 --> 00:36:33.340
with me. It doesn't always, you don't always
00:36:33.340 --> 00:36:36.559
have to jump to this defensive mode, but it could
00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:41.300
be some genuine intentions behind things. Sure.
00:36:41.579 --> 00:36:43.719
And, uh, the other question I have for you too
00:36:43.719 --> 00:36:47.480
is like the, you obviously were there steeped
00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:50.619
in, you know, in the school. day to day, you
00:36:50.619 --> 00:36:54.519
know, working. What's something that you feel
00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:57.159
like you could not have learned from the outside
00:36:57.159 --> 00:37:00.800
looking in or maybe like even, you know, for
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:03.840
people who make some make assumptions about schools
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:07.360
and how they operate? What's something that you
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:10.820
could really only learn or, you know, take it
00:37:10.820 --> 00:37:13.679
more broadly or maybe just individually if you
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:18.679
want to. But what could you not learn at? about
00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:21.340
schools unless you are actually working in one.
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:25.940
I would say. This is maybe something that you
00:37:25.940 --> 00:37:28.260
don't get taught in class or in school, like
00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:31.599
teacher or principal school is the importance
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:35.119
of having students or sorry, staff that genuinely
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:37.980
care about your kids. I didn't realize how important
00:37:37.980 --> 00:37:40.780
that was. I've had some really bad teachers in
00:37:40.780 --> 00:37:43.119
my experience that were legitimately just trying
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:46.599
to catch checks. They needed a job. and not necessarily
00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:48.280
this is a career or something that they were
00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:51.000
passionate about, or kids were something that
00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:54.380
they were passionate about. And I learned that
00:37:54.380 --> 00:37:58.579
from a few situations where I just knew they
00:37:58.579 --> 00:38:00.960
weren't the best fit. You know, sometimes people
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:03.599
interview well. You only get like an hour or
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:07.369
so with somebody. Let's say it's an hour. and
00:38:07.369 --> 00:38:10.289
you got the resume and that's a bit all you have.
00:38:10.510 --> 00:38:11.949
Of course, the references are going to be people
00:38:11.949 --> 00:38:14.409
that they've selected. So there's a bias there
00:38:14.409 --> 00:38:18.449
when you call that person to check in. So learning
00:38:18.449 --> 00:38:21.449
the importance of whatever your vision is, because
00:38:21.449 --> 00:38:22.829
if you're a school leader, I'm just going to
00:38:22.829 --> 00:38:24.210
assume that you want the best for your kids.
00:38:24.409 --> 00:38:26.210
I'm just assuming that you're not just trying
00:38:26.210 --> 00:38:28.449
to collect a check, but you actually have some
00:38:28.449 --> 00:38:32.190
sort of passion and drive. to create a community
00:38:32.190 --> 00:38:34.849
or a generation, future generations of folks
00:38:34.849 --> 00:38:38.309
that are going to be very pivotal in the society.
00:38:38.389 --> 00:38:39.849
Who knows? You might have a future president,
00:38:39.929 --> 00:38:41.730
you might have future Congress folks, whatever.
00:38:42.449 --> 00:38:45.030
But just making sure that you are staffed or
00:38:45.030 --> 00:38:48.190
surrounded by people that genuinely love kids.
00:38:48.989 --> 00:38:51.909
And if you have that, that makes such a difference
00:38:51.909 --> 00:38:54.289
versus having individuals that are literally
00:38:54.289 --> 00:38:56.449
there just because they need to be there and
00:38:56.449 --> 00:39:02.480
they need to pay their light bills. Yeah. So,
00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:03.800
uh, Sheldon, one of the things that I know that
00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:05.719
you have on the horizon here is you're working
00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:08.860
on an app, um, combining some, some different
00:39:08.860 --> 00:39:12.159
ideas together. Um, that's not quite ready for
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:15.739
prime time yet, although it's, uh, very near
00:39:15.739 --> 00:39:17.619
on the horizon. Do you want to give us a little
00:39:17.619 --> 00:39:20.900
insight into, to what that's about? I love the
00:39:20.900 --> 00:39:24.179
show. Y 'all are awesome. So, uh, here's, yes.
00:39:24.380 --> 00:39:26.780
Thank you for setting me up with that question.
00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:29.340
So here's the thing, uh, as I mentioned earlier
00:39:29.340 --> 00:39:32.389
about the collectivism. versus the individualism.
00:39:32.769 --> 00:39:35.829
I've noticed our society in the United States
00:39:35.829 --> 00:39:39.170
is heavily leaning towards the individualism,
00:39:39.329 --> 00:39:42.570
right? So again, a student is looked at as the
00:39:42.570 --> 00:39:45.889
top of their class and kids are taught to compete
00:39:45.889 --> 00:39:50.769
for individual rankings and individualism. So
00:39:50.769 --> 00:39:53.320
to get the best scholarships, to get... the best
00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:56.159
this or the best that. Like that's what as parents,
00:39:56.539 --> 00:40:00.360
we tell our kids, we come up in this competitive
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:04.420
nature. However, again, like I said, there are
00:40:04.420 --> 00:40:07.199
students that are from the collectivist background.
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:09.619
And so they operate a little differently. So
00:40:09.619 --> 00:40:13.119
like, for example, if you ask a student, hey,
00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:16.179
I just did this group assignment. What did you
00:40:16.179 --> 00:40:17.760
contribute? You know, that's one of the things
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:20.320
that we tend to do as teachers. We say, you know,
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:23.550
there's four kids in this group. Yes, each student,
00:40:23.550 --> 00:40:25.710
what was your contribution? And so one of the
00:40:25.710 --> 00:40:28.269
students, let's just call him Jose. He says,
00:40:28.469 --> 00:40:32.949
well, we made sure that we did the research and
00:40:32.949 --> 00:40:37.210
we made sure that we had everything in order.
00:40:37.570 --> 00:40:40.170
And no, no, no, no, no, no. Jose, what did you
00:40:40.170 --> 00:40:42.989
actually like? What did you do? And again, Jose
00:40:42.989 --> 00:40:46.150
goes back to, well, well, we decided that we're
00:40:46.150 --> 00:40:48.750
going to. So now the teachers making this assumption
00:40:48.750 --> 00:40:51.170
that either Jose probably didn't do anything.
00:40:52.509 --> 00:40:56.110
And so he's just saying we, but there could be
00:40:56.110 --> 00:40:59.949
something else underlying. He may come from a
00:40:59.949 --> 00:41:02.489
community, a collectivist community, where again,
00:41:02.650 --> 00:41:04.590
what's yours is mine and what's mine is yours.
00:41:04.889 --> 00:41:08.050
And so he might be used to a situation where,
00:41:08.650 --> 00:41:10.070
I give you an example, and I talk about this
00:41:10.070 --> 00:41:13.329
in my book, where like when I grew up, the refrigerator,
00:41:13.750 --> 00:41:16.829
when you go in the refrigerator, every item in
00:41:16.829 --> 00:41:19.710
there, milk, eggs, whatever. My mom would be
00:41:19.710 --> 00:41:22.369
like, don't touch this, don't touch that because
00:41:22.369 --> 00:41:25.670
that's, I'm making pancakes tomorrow or whatever
00:41:25.670 --> 00:41:29.090
it is. Every item in that refrigerator was allocated
00:41:29.090 --> 00:41:32.269
to something and we had to ask permission. As
00:41:32.269 --> 00:41:35.489
an adult, the way I run my refrigerator, if you're
00:41:35.489 --> 00:41:38.489
hungry, just grab something, right? So it's all
00:41:38.489 --> 00:41:41.190
of our food. Sure, you might know something that
00:41:41.190 --> 00:41:43.389
my son might like or prefer, but I could eat
00:41:43.389 --> 00:41:47.090
it too, vice versa. So it's one of those situations
00:41:47.090 --> 00:41:52.570
where We have this idea of If I'm hungry, I'm
00:41:52.570 --> 00:41:54.329
and there's a bag of chips. I'm gonna get a bag
00:41:54.329 --> 00:41:56.190
of chips I don't necessarily have to ask permission
00:41:56.190 --> 00:41:57.969
because I don't know if this is allocated towards
00:41:57.969 --> 00:42:01.289
something so that Jose situation where he's used
00:42:01.289 --> 00:42:04.090
to a background where everything is ours like
00:42:04.090 --> 00:42:07.309
we just we all did it we all did it and So it
00:42:07.309 --> 00:42:09.309
gets there's some back and forth and again that
00:42:09.309 --> 00:42:13.230
can escalate to something else So I see a lot
00:42:13.230 --> 00:42:15.429
of teachers struggle with doing collaborative
00:42:15.429 --> 00:42:18.849
learning for making their own biases and sometimes
00:42:18.849 --> 00:42:21.050
their assumptions on how the collaborative learning
00:42:21.050 --> 00:42:24.369
looks. So what I've been working on is a product
00:42:24.369 --> 00:42:26.349
that's going to make collaborative learning a
00:42:26.349 --> 00:42:29.210
lot easier. It's going to be fun and it's engaging
00:42:29.210 --> 00:42:32.050
and it's something that can be done online. I
00:42:32.050 --> 00:42:35.309
will be rolling that out in a few weeks. So I
00:42:35.309 --> 00:42:38.309
appreciate the preview that I can provide, but
00:42:38.309 --> 00:42:40.829
it's based off of those individual teachers that
00:42:40.829 --> 00:42:44.630
are saying, look, I realize when I do my classrooms,
00:42:45.269 --> 00:42:48.690
it tends to be individualistic, but I want to
00:42:48.690 --> 00:42:51.489
create a balance to where there's a lot of collectivism.
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:54.659
And my collective of students will thrive in
00:42:54.659 --> 00:42:57.420
this community as well. And so that's what this
00:42:57.420 --> 00:43:02.619
tool is for. It's fun. It's engaging. It provides
00:43:02.619 --> 00:43:06.480
challenges. And again, it gets everyone in that
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:12.239
group involved. I'll leave it there. It's a good
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:14.199
teaser. And I'm excited to check it out when
00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:16.699
it becomes available. You better message us when
00:43:16.699 --> 00:43:20.099
and where we can find it, too. OK, absolutely.
00:43:22.329 --> 00:43:24.369
Yeah, so, Sheldon, we're going to move into kind
00:43:24.369 --> 00:43:26.980
of the... the final parts of the program here
00:43:26.980 --> 00:43:29.159
where we get into some lightning round questions
00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:31.739
where we get to know our guest a little bit more
00:43:31.739 --> 00:43:34.599
here. And, you know, you're free to give short
00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:36.599
one word answers or you're free to elaborate
00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:39.380
to describe what it is that you mean. That's
00:43:39.380 --> 00:43:41.699
entirely up to you. So I think I get to start
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:45.280
with the first one here. You know, since we brought
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:48.599
up potluck earlier in the episode. So you mentioned
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:50.260
some of the things that you like to make here,
00:43:50.260 --> 00:43:53.539
too. But what's your go to potluck item when
00:43:53.539 --> 00:43:57.619
you actually go to to a potluck dinner. Go to
00:43:57.619 --> 00:44:01.019
item is lasagna. However, I just got a Blackstone
00:44:01.019 --> 00:44:04.840
grill for Father's Day not too long ago. So I've
00:44:04.840 --> 00:44:07.000
been on these smash burgers. So that might be
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:11.800
a close second. Yes. Favorite place to go in
00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:16.480
Arizona. Favorite place to go in Arizona is.
00:44:18.789 --> 00:44:21.969
I go to the roller skating rink. I like to roller
00:44:21.969 --> 00:44:23.510
skate. So that's probably my favorite place.
00:44:23.750 --> 00:44:27.030
Every week I'm there. Awesome. You got any cool
00:44:27.030 --> 00:44:32.369
moves? I get down. Now, see, so I'm not going
00:44:32.369 --> 00:44:35.050
to, like someone, I was actually talking to my
00:44:35.050 --> 00:44:37.449
staff yesterday about this because they, everybody
00:44:37.449 --> 00:44:40.610
gets surprised at Sheldon roller skates. And
00:44:40.610 --> 00:44:43.550
I don't do the derby. Respect is just not my
00:44:43.550 --> 00:44:47.030
thing. But yeah, I'm dancing and I'm grooving
00:44:47.030 --> 00:44:50.849
out there on skatering adult night. Sure. How
00:44:50.849 --> 00:44:52.809
about what's your, you know, a current book,
00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:56.130
TV show or movie that you've been into? So I
00:44:56.130 --> 00:44:58.269
like to watch this show on YouTube. It's called
00:44:58.269 --> 00:45:01.789
Pop the Balloon. It's Pop the Balloon or Find
00:45:01.789 --> 00:45:04.389
Love. They actually film it here in Phoenix.
00:45:04.989 --> 00:45:08.980
And so I watch them every Wednesday. I think
00:45:08.980 --> 00:45:13.000
I've seen clips of that maybe on YouTube. It's
00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:16.139
toxic dating, but it's entertaining. So I do
00:45:16.139 --> 00:45:18.980
watch that. Sure. What's something people would
00:45:18.980 --> 00:45:22.119
be surprised to learn about you? I'm actually
00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:23.980
very introverted. People don't believe me when
00:45:23.980 --> 00:45:29.099
I tell them. I tend to turn things on or time
00:45:29.099 --> 00:45:31.000
frame. And then after that, don't talk to me
00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:33.619
like I leave me alone. So I'm very introverted.
00:45:34.099 --> 00:45:36.940
I'm very private as well. So I keep a very small
00:45:36.940 --> 00:45:39.969
circle. So if you if you're in my inner circle,
00:45:39.989 --> 00:45:44.010
you know all about me outside of that. I am Like
00:45:44.010 --> 00:45:48.070
I said, I tend to turn things on Since you mentioned
00:45:48.070 --> 00:45:50.429
the the start of school coming up for some of
00:45:50.429 --> 00:45:54.110
us sooner than others In your in your mind, what
00:45:54.110 --> 00:45:57.130
is purposeful? Purposeful leading teaching and
00:45:57.130 --> 00:45:59.130
learning look like as we enter this upcoming
00:45:59.130 --> 00:46:02.050
school year it's being intentional and not just
00:46:02.050 --> 00:46:03.630
again not just trying to collect the paycheck,
00:46:03.710 --> 00:46:07.260
but really have the the kids in mind. And when
00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:09.139
we have the kids in mind, that means that we
00:46:09.139 --> 00:46:11.659
are creating ownership with our students and
00:46:11.659 --> 00:46:13.000
not just telling them this is what we're going
00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:15.599
to do for the year. But we're also asking our
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:18.099
students, what would you like to see this year?
00:46:18.500 --> 00:46:22.179
So I know we have standards, right? And so there
00:46:22.179 --> 00:46:24.159
are certain topics that we have to cover. It
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:27.380
is what it is. But how do you want to learn about
00:46:27.380 --> 00:46:30.139
these topics? And how would you like to teach
00:46:30.139 --> 00:46:32.760
some of these topics? That is what I would like
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:35.039
to see. when it comes to being purposeful and
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:38.639
intentional when I work. All right, Sheldon,
00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:41.860
so we're doing the conference tomorrow. You're
00:46:41.860 --> 00:46:44.960
our keynote speaker. What's your walk up song?
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:51.079
I love Jackson five. I want you back that the
00:46:51.079 --> 00:46:56.599
one that the intro like that. That is my intro
00:46:56.599 --> 00:46:59.820
song. I love that song. Cool. Well, we have us
00:46:59.820 --> 00:47:01.980
we have a Spotify playlist now for the podcast
00:47:01.980 --> 00:47:05.000
so we will get that song added to the play. Yes
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:08.659
And just a few rapid fire here this or that and
00:47:08.659 --> 00:47:12.260
you've got to give us just either or okay Are
00:47:12.260 --> 00:47:15.119
you a notebook and paper guy or do you use an
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:18.900
app? notebook and paper all day Are you an early
00:47:18.900 --> 00:47:22.000
bird or a night owl early bird? Do you prefer
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:28.019
mountains or beach? Beach when traveling Are
00:47:28.019 --> 00:47:32.380
you listening to podcast or music? I would say
00:47:32.380 --> 00:47:35.559
probably podcast. Do you prefer a text or a call?
00:47:37.219 --> 00:47:40.219
Text. And are you the first to leave the party
00:47:40.219 --> 00:47:42.320
or are you the last one out the door at the end?
00:47:42.980 --> 00:47:46.179
If I go to the party, I am the first to leave.
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:50.940
You got to get me there first. Yeah. All right,
00:47:51.019 --> 00:47:53.820
children. Well, as a as a fellow introvert, I
00:47:53.820 --> 00:47:55.860
appreciate you sharing all that you did and.
00:47:56.170 --> 00:47:58.170
I just want to give you a chance. Is there I
00:47:58.170 --> 00:47:59.730
know we talked about the app a little bit, but
00:47:59.730 --> 00:48:01.730
there is there and that's coming out in a couple
00:48:01.730 --> 00:48:04.510
of weeks. Is there anything else that you want
00:48:04.510 --> 00:48:07.250
to plug as far as what you have going on for,
00:48:07.250 --> 00:48:10.130
you know, websites, socials, any of that type
00:48:10.130 --> 00:48:12.929
of thing? Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. If you
00:48:12.929 --> 00:48:14.929
want to follow me on Instagram, I'm at Sheldon
00:48:14.929 --> 00:48:17.909
Aikens and that's S H E L D O N. My last name
00:48:17.909 --> 00:48:21.369
is E A K I N S. So Sheldon Aikens on Instagram.
00:48:21.369 --> 00:48:24.360
I'm also on LinkedIn with the same name. My YouTube
00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:27.400
channel is Akins teaches. That's where I have
00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:29.860
my podcast leading equity and you can find the
00:48:29.860 --> 00:48:32.639
videos there If you're looking to collaborate
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:35.800
in any sort of way of partnerships and workshops
00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:38.400
keynotes trainings You can go to my website at
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:41.699
purposeful two four seven comm And then the last
00:48:41.699 --> 00:48:46.059
piece is on August 13th. I will be doing my reveal
00:48:46.059 --> 00:48:48.960
and so that's coming out on August 13th So follow
00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:52.340
me online. You can get more information Okay
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:54.039
Well, thanks for joining us, Sheldon. We really
00:48:54.039 --> 00:48:56.900
appreciate it. Pleasure's mine. Thank you. Thanks,
00:48:56.900 --> 00:49:03.639
Sheldon. Thanks for listening to Integrate This.
00:49:04.260 --> 00:49:06.320
Want to take your learning further? Head over
00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:09.079
to our YouTube channel for quick tutorials, deep
00:49:09.079 --> 00:49:12.079
dives, and more EdTech tips you can use right
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:15.539
away. Don't forget to subscribe and catch new
00:49:15.539 --> 00:49:19.440
podcast episodes every Thursday on Apple, Spotify,
00:49:19.940 --> 00:49:22.699
or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next
00:49:22.699 --> 00:49:26.599
time, keep exploring, keep innovating and keep
00:49:26.599 --> 00:49:27.500
integrating this.