Beyond the Device: Engagement, Creativity, and Real AI Use | With Carl Hooker

WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.180
Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
00:00:03.180 --> 00:00:06.099
podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
00:00:07.139 --> 00:00:09.240
Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:12.199
as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:15.320
technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:17.960
conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:21.300
we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:25.500
and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
00:00:25.739 --> 00:00:40.070
and let's integrate this. Welcome back to our
00:00:40.070 --> 00:00:43.310
Integrate This EdTech podcast. I'm Jeremy Micklin.
00:00:43.490 --> 00:00:46.289
I'm joined as always by co -host. David Berner
00:00:46.289 --> 00:00:49.310
and David and I have a wonderful guest. We're
00:00:49.310 --> 00:00:51.130
looking forward to having a great conversation
00:00:51.130 --> 00:00:55.149
with for the next hour or so. And it's Carl Hooker.
00:00:55.450 --> 00:00:59.070
Carl has been around the EdTech space for quite
00:00:59.070 --> 00:01:01.530
some time serving in, I know, many different
00:01:01.530 --> 00:01:05.650
capacities. You know, being a tech leader in
00:01:05.650 --> 00:01:09.290
a district to going off on his own and doing
00:01:09.290 --> 00:01:12.870
some of his own speaking and, you know, is constantly
00:01:12.870 --> 00:01:15.379
in demand. I know all around the country. to
00:01:15.379 --> 00:01:19.099
be brought in to do a keynote or to lead some
00:01:19.099 --> 00:01:21.819
staff development days as well. But we're really
00:01:21.819 --> 00:01:24.579
excited to have Carl on. And Carl, we kind of
00:01:24.579 --> 00:01:27.519
usually kick things off by having the guests
00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:29.700
kind of give us a little bit of their background,
00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:33.739
their journey into that EdTech space that we're
00:01:33.739 --> 00:01:36.060
all sharing here today. Yes. Well, thank you,
00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:37.359
Jeremy, David. Thank you guys for having me on,
00:01:37.540 --> 00:01:39.760
first of all. But yes, sit back all and listen
00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:42.120
and think back and travel in time to the 1900s
00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:45.019
for the Internet was just at its birth. Yes,
00:01:45.019 --> 00:01:46.840
this is my origin story. That's right. I'll tell
00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:50.560
it as a fireside chat. No, I started an education
00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:53.640
much like a lot of folks. That was my kind of
00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:56.439
angle into Ed Tech. It just being a classroom
00:01:56.439 --> 00:02:00.459
teacher. And then really, you know, for me, there
00:02:00.459 --> 00:02:01.959
was these little things called iBooks, these
00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:03.959
little white Max, if you guys remember, they're
00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:05.799
like, they're called iBooks. They're cute little
00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:08.419
MacBook laptops, essentially. And we had these
00:02:08.419 --> 00:02:10.280
cows that are called computers on wheels that
00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:12.599
would roll around in our elementary school. And
00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:14.280
those things, I think, just lived in my classroom.
00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:15.819
And I was teaching six year olds at the time,
00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:17.379
first graders. And I remember teachers going,
00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:19.960
you can't, the kids aren't gonna be able to use
00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:21.599
that stuff. And I was like, they were so fast
00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:24.219
at it. They were adept. I was showing them really
00:02:24.219 --> 00:02:26.719
high, high tech stuff like Clarice works and
00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:28.860
hyper studio. If you guys are way old enough
00:02:28.860 --> 00:02:31.639
to remember that stuff. Yeah so that's how we
00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:33.659
got started and then I got moved around a little
00:02:33.659 --> 00:02:35.400
bit and I was I had an opportunity to go start
00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:37.659
a kind of rehabilitate a school on the east side
00:02:37.659 --> 00:02:40.360
of Austin where I'm located and a principal said
00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:41.639
hey I want you to come with me we're going to
00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:43.639
bring the school back up kind of reinvigorate
00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:45.639
the culture of the school itself because they'd
00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:47.419
had some problems and she goes do you want to
00:02:47.419 --> 00:02:48.860
just teach first grade again I was like no you
00:02:48.860 --> 00:02:50.500
know I'll try something different let's try look
00:02:50.500 --> 00:02:52.020
can you make like a computer lab for me and I'll
00:02:52.020 --> 00:02:54.080
do like a computer lab type deal and this is
00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:58.009
2003. And so yeah, I got into it. I was like,
00:02:58.050 --> 00:02:59.389
this internet thing's probably not going away.
00:02:59.449 --> 00:03:02.050
So I got my master's in ed tech and then just
00:03:02.050 --> 00:03:04.560
kind of moved up from there. And so. my last
00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:07.280
official in -school job, I was the Director of
00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:09.099
Innovation and Digital Learning at Eanes Westlake
00:03:09.099 --> 00:03:12.000
here in Austin. So in charge of our one -to -one
00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:13.659
iPad program, which had been the first in the
00:03:13.659 --> 00:03:18.919
state back in 2011. Yeah, so that was 15 years
00:03:18.919 --> 00:03:22.180
ago. Wow, that sounds ancient. Yes, that's right,
00:03:22.419 --> 00:03:25.159
folks. Yeah, there were scrolls and tablets and...
00:03:25.810 --> 00:03:28.949
pieces of pieces of stone, essentially. But yeah,
00:03:28.949 --> 00:03:31.610
and then because of that work, people were asking
00:03:31.610 --> 00:03:33.610
more and more schools would come and visit and
00:03:33.610 --> 00:03:35.110
be like, hey, can we check out what you guys
00:03:35.110 --> 00:03:36.449
are doing? I'm like, sure. And then when they
00:03:36.449 --> 00:03:38.009
come in, I kind of give them a little bit of
00:03:38.009 --> 00:03:39.430
a talk about what we're doing. And then I would
00:03:39.430 --> 00:03:41.389
train them a little bit. And then we started
00:03:41.389 --> 00:03:43.569
offering trainings in the school that pay the
00:03:43.569 --> 00:03:45.449
school for it. So the school district started
00:03:45.449 --> 00:03:46.710
making a little bit of money on it, which was
00:03:46.710 --> 00:03:48.930
nice. And then some of them said, well, can you
00:03:48.930 --> 00:03:50.870
just come to our school and do it? So then I
00:03:50.870 --> 00:03:52.110
said, sure, I'll do it. You know, and they're
00:03:52.110 --> 00:03:55.479
like, we'll pay you like $350 to come do it.
00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:57.080
I was like, oh my gosh, are you serious? I'm
00:03:57.080 --> 00:04:00.139
so excited. So yeah, my first gig was in Salina,
00:04:00.139 --> 00:04:02.699
Texas up in North, North, North of Dallas. And
00:04:02.699 --> 00:04:04.400
it was, they paid me 350 bucks plus they paid
00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.659
for my hotel. And I was so excited. I was like,
00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:08.759
oh my God, I came back and I was like, this is
00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:10.180
what I want to do when I grow up. I want to be
00:04:10.180 --> 00:04:12.860
just a full -time speaker trainer. So I kind
00:04:12.860 --> 00:04:14.439
of worked on that part of the career as I was
00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:15.819
still working in the schools. And then eventually
00:04:15.819 --> 00:04:18.589
I had to make a decision. So back in... A few
00:04:18.589 --> 00:04:20.389
months before the pandemic actually I decided
00:04:20.389 --> 00:04:22.810
to retire quote -unquote early and just become
00:04:22.810 --> 00:04:24.170
a full -time public speaker and so I've been
00:04:24.170 --> 00:04:27.089
doing that and Podcasting webinars authors all
00:04:27.089 --> 00:04:29.149
the other fun stuff and even bought a bar and
00:04:29.149 --> 00:04:31.689
owned that for five years Which survived the
00:04:31.689 --> 00:04:34.610
pandemic, but it didn't survive Gen Z because
00:04:34.610 --> 00:04:38.339
they don't drink I have to ask real quick, was
00:04:38.339 --> 00:04:43.959
there karaoke at the bar? No. There was at least
00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:45.839
one time that there was because I was there.
00:04:46.660 --> 00:04:49.060
By default, no, we had live music and it was
00:04:49.060 --> 00:04:52.680
amazing. We find local artists, people that just
00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:54.759
play guitar, not big bands because we only had
00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:57.769
a little tiny stage. It was great. And I was
00:04:57.769 --> 00:04:59.350
like, it was cool just to meet some of these
00:04:59.350 --> 00:05:01.569
new, I mean, I have no musical talent. I mean,
00:05:01.589 --> 00:05:03.790
I can, yes, I can karaoke rap probably is about
00:05:03.790 --> 00:05:06.149
the best thing I could do. And I could DJ, but
00:05:06.149 --> 00:05:08.009
I can't play an instrument. So I'm always fascinated
00:05:08.009 --> 00:05:09.930
by people that play instruments and they can
00:05:09.930 --> 00:05:11.610
just do it naturally. So yeah, we had live music
00:05:11.610 --> 00:05:14.470
every, every day at the bar and the idle hands
00:05:14.470 --> 00:05:16.709
rest in peace. It went out of commission last
00:05:16.709 --> 00:05:20.990
May. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, like being out
00:05:20.990 --> 00:05:22.569
of the classroom or there's still things like,
00:05:22.750 --> 00:05:25.370
do you miss anything? about not having that daily
00:05:25.370 --> 00:05:27.230
student interaction. I know David and I both
00:05:27.230 --> 00:05:30.569
have roles and he and I, we're not in the classroom
00:05:30.569 --> 00:05:32.509
either and we talk about that once in a while.
00:05:33.009 --> 00:05:35.449
you know, for you, what's your experience? Yeah,
00:05:35.449 --> 00:05:37.029
I mean, I think people out there listening to
00:05:37.029 --> 00:05:38.949
this, you know, if you're a teacher and what
00:05:38.949 --> 00:05:41.569
you go to that next level role, I was told this
00:05:41.569 --> 00:05:42.949
one and when I did it, they're like, once you
00:05:42.949 --> 00:05:44.470
move out of the classroom into like whatever
00:05:44.470 --> 00:05:47.470
support or training or ed tech type role is like,
00:05:47.550 --> 00:05:49.089
you're not going to go back. And they're like,
00:05:49.170 --> 00:05:50.949
No, no, no. You know, but sure enough, you just
00:05:50.949 --> 00:05:53.069
kind of stay there. Or if you can, you try to
00:05:53.069 --> 00:05:54.670
go up like I did to a director level. But the
00:05:54.670 --> 00:05:57.670
one thing for me was I missed even in those roles,
00:05:57.730 --> 00:05:59.470
I missed like the interaction in the classrooms.
00:05:59.730 --> 00:06:02.009
So yeah, I miss it a lot now. But Back then,
00:06:02.009 --> 00:06:04.589
what I would do is purposely schedule time on
00:06:04.589 --> 00:06:07.410
my calendar, because I felt like central office
00:06:07.410 --> 00:06:08.990
folks would just stay in their offices. And it's
00:06:08.990 --> 00:06:10.829
like, yeah, it's great. You have an open door
00:06:10.829 --> 00:06:13.170
policy, but no teacher is going to leave their
00:06:13.170 --> 00:06:14.670
classroom and get in their car and drive over
00:06:14.670 --> 00:06:15.990
to the office to talk to you. It's like, you
00:06:15.990 --> 00:06:18.730
got to be more present. So I would make a point
00:06:18.730 --> 00:06:20.189
of every week scheduling time. And I would just
00:06:20.189 --> 00:06:22.350
take my laptop and go to a campus and just sit
00:06:22.350 --> 00:06:24.529
in the front office sometimes and kind of watch
00:06:24.529 --> 00:06:25.949
teachers and parents as they come in. I would
00:06:25.949 --> 00:06:28.990
walk around the halls and not have a real purpose.
00:06:30.610 --> 00:06:32.009
Well, you got to have a clipboard so you can
00:06:32.009 --> 00:06:33.910
like, are you checking to see what they're checking
00:06:33.910 --> 00:06:35.589
to see what they're doing? I just want to come
00:06:35.589 --> 00:06:37.810
in and be present. You always find great stuff
00:06:37.810 --> 00:06:39.129
from that too, because people say, hey, while
00:06:39.129 --> 00:06:41.389
you're here, I have a question for you, or I'm
00:06:41.389 --> 00:06:43.170
trying this new thing. And I'm like, that's the
00:06:43.170 --> 00:06:45.550
stuff that if I wasn't around, I would I wouldn't
00:06:45.550 --> 00:06:47.970
see her here. So I do miss that I get to work
00:06:47.970 --> 00:06:51.149
with tech and learning, which is a national organization.
00:06:51.170 --> 00:06:53.009
So they do regional events. And so I'm the MC.
00:06:53.370 --> 00:06:56.009
of six of those every year. And those are awesome
00:06:56.009 --> 00:06:57.810
because it keeps me connected with folks and
00:06:57.810 --> 00:06:59.730
friends that are still doing the work that you
00:06:59.730 --> 00:07:02.470
guys are doing, too. And so for me, I think that
00:07:02.470 --> 00:07:05.170
keeps me grounded. And again, I was just at Brooklyn
00:07:05.170 --> 00:07:07.750
Tech High School this Friday, which is the largest
00:07:07.750 --> 00:07:09.290
high school in the country, 6 ,000 students.
00:07:09.970 --> 00:07:12.170
And so that was where I was talking on Friday.
00:07:12.170 --> 00:07:13.689
And it was awesome just to be around the teachers
00:07:13.689 --> 00:07:15.829
and the students again. And that building is,
00:07:15.889 --> 00:07:17.910
I mean, just you can imagine how big that building
00:07:17.910 --> 00:07:19.910
is. It's in Brooklyn. I mean, it's this huge
00:07:19.910 --> 00:07:21.810
building. But it makes me always go like, ah,
00:07:21.850 --> 00:07:24.180
I missed that kind of The school smell, you know,
00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:25.600
I mean, I hate to say it, but it does have a
00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:29.019
smell. Schools do, especially high schools. Yeah,
00:07:29.100 --> 00:07:31.920
that's that's got to meet for like us. I mean,
00:07:32.420 --> 00:07:35.120
we're both in in kind of represent schools in
00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:37.319
rural areas of Minnesota for the most part. So,
00:07:37.339 --> 00:07:40.139
you know, we go and we see big, huge buildings,
00:07:40.139 --> 00:07:43.279
right? But they're pre K -12 all under. Yeah.
00:07:43.540 --> 00:07:45.500
So, I mean, they cover this space, but I can't
00:07:45.500 --> 00:07:48.060
imagine. you know taking something like the size
00:07:48.060 --> 00:07:50.399
of the the school that I taught in for 22 years
00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:54.079
which had a large footprint but it had you know
00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:56.420
2 000 students spread out over that whole space
00:07:56.420 --> 00:07:58.980
and you're talking that would be just you know
00:07:58.980 --> 00:08:00.899
the high school that's the first two floors well
00:08:00.899 --> 00:08:05.649
it's seven floors tall So I took my daughter
00:08:05.649 --> 00:08:07.290
with me is my take my daughter to work day. So
00:08:07.290 --> 00:08:08.470
I took her with me because she's going to be
00:08:08.470 --> 00:08:09.889
a freshman next year. And I said, I want you
00:08:09.889 --> 00:08:11.990
to check out this high school. And then I also
00:08:11.990 --> 00:08:13.529
said, you're gonna have to take pictures of me
00:08:13.529 --> 00:08:15.269
and do some social media stuff. So I put her
00:08:15.269 --> 00:08:17.889
to work. But she was like, can you imagine like
00:08:17.889 --> 00:08:20.370
if you had a class on the first floor, and then
00:08:20.370 --> 00:08:21.990
on the seventh floor, and then on the fifth floor,
00:08:22.009 --> 00:08:23.689
I was like, man, you'd be getting a good leg
00:08:23.689 --> 00:08:25.610
workout by the end of that. Because they complain
00:08:25.610 --> 00:08:26.949
their middle school is three stories tall, and
00:08:26.949 --> 00:08:28.870
they complain about it all the time. But like,
00:08:28.949 --> 00:08:30.910
yeah, look at this building, man. And it's actually
00:08:30.910 --> 00:08:33.830
a piece of historical property too. Like it's
00:08:33.830 --> 00:08:35.509
that's how ancient the building is, but it was
00:08:35.509 --> 00:08:39.210
beautiful. But yeah, tech a little bit. You gotta
00:08:39.210 --> 00:08:40.870
worry. You know, whenever you have an old building,
00:08:41.090 --> 00:08:45.230
sometimes the Wi -Fi doesn't play so good. Yeah,
00:08:45.230 --> 00:08:46.909
Carl, can we talk a little bit about? Well, I
00:08:46.909 --> 00:08:48.950
guess no matter what the school size, right?
00:08:49.629 --> 00:08:52.309
The big thing is classrooms that are engaging
00:08:52.309 --> 00:08:55.169
students. Yeah, so if we can talk a little bit
00:08:55.169 --> 00:08:59.870
about that in the first first, why isn't isn't
00:08:59.870 --> 00:09:02.480
when you look at engagement? How is it not about
00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:05.340
the app or the platform of the device? What is
00:09:05.340 --> 00:09:07.700
it really about or how do you achieve that? Yeah,
00:09:07.700 --> 00:09:09.980
I think this is a great question, David. I think
00:09:09.980 --> 00:09:12.200
this is, I mean, with the pandemic, I feel like,
00:09:12.220 --> 00:09:13.600
and I think if you guys have been working with
00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:15.559
teachers, you know this too, like kids came back
00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:17.860
and it's almost like something was off, like
00:09:17.860 --> 00:09:19.679
the engagement. There was already struggle with
00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:21.139
engagement prior to the pandemic. Don't get me
00:09:21.139 --> 00:09:23.259
wrong. But I feel like since then and just from
00:09:23.259 --> 00:09:25.039
talking to teachers over the last several years,
00:09:25.179 --> 00:09:26.480
they're like, yeah, there was this big cliff
00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:28.259
and it's just been hard to get them kind of re
00:09:28.259 --> 00:09:30.409
-engaged in school. And a lot of it was they
00:09:30.409 --> 00:09:32.309
got to see kind of like, oh, I can learn on my
00:09:32.309 --> 00:09:34.389
own or learn at my own pace or or maybe they
00:09:34.389 --> 00:09:35.909
just got to be at home and play on their devices
00:09:35.909 --> 00:09:37.230
and they didn't have to go to school. So they'd
00:09:37.230 --> 00:09:40.190
like that more. I think engagement is the key
00:09:40.190 --> 00:09:42.610
because if you don't have that, it doesn't matter
00:09:42.610 --> 00:09:45.049
how great your standards are, your textbook is
00:09:45.049 --> 00:09:46.570
or the lesson that you designed. You know, if
00:09:46.570 --> 00:09:48.269
you don't create that engaging experience, kids
00:09:48.269 --> 00:09:50.269
aren't going to receive it. So, yeah, I think
00:09:50.269 --> 00:09:51.889
it's great that you ask about apps or platforms.
00:09:52.049 --> 00:09:53.590
Yes. And it's funny because there are apps and
00:09:53.590 --> 00:09:55.720
platforms. that kind of market themselves saying
00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:57.840
hey we're we're gonna we're gonna engage your
00:09:57.840 --> 00:09:59.440
students you know that's our that's our thing
00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:02.399
like now i mean kids see right through that so
00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:05.279
um for me it's like it's being respectful and
00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:07.259
attentive to them uh asking them what their interests
00:10:07.259 --> 00:10:09.100
are i mean this is the old we've been hearing
00:10:09.100 --> 00:10:11.179
this for a long time personalized learning and
00:10:11.179 --> 00:10:13.440
voice and choice those are still the standards
00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:15.120
as far as i'm concerned when it comes to engagement
00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.149
so if i go into a classroom and i say Okay, we're
00:10:18.149 --> 00:10:19.649
going to learn about this math problem today,
00:10:20.029 --> 00:10:21.690
and this is how I want you to do it. Here's,
00:10:21.690 --> 00:10:23.409
oh, it's a digital spreadsheet that I'm going
00:10:23.409 --> 00:10:25.090
to, a sheet that I'm going to send out to you
00:10:25.090 --> 00:10:27.690
digitally. Is that engaging? No, not maybe. I
00:10:27.690 --> 00:10:29.350
mean, it may be a little bit of nut tick because
00:10:29.350 --> 00:10:31.649
it's digital, but even that wears out after a
00:10:31.649 --> 00:10:34.000
while. But if you say, Hey, you know, we've got
00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:35.620
to go, we're going to go buy, we're going to
00:10:35.620 --> 00:10:37.500
start up a store tomorrow. What are we going
00:10:37.500 --> 00:10:39.899
to sell? I mean, even start it blank like that.
00:10:40.019 --> 00:10:41.700
And like, Oh, well, you want to sell these jelly
00:10:41.700 --> 00:10:43.220
cats, which are the big thing, apparently these
00:10:43.220 --> 00:10:44.419
days, because my daughters keep talking about
00:10:44.419 --> 00:10:45.980
them. Okay, well, let's figure out how much they
00:10:45.980 --> 00:10:47.259
cost to actually make them. And then what is
00:10:47.259 --> 00:10:49.039
it? What is the uptick on selling? And then what
00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:51.159
if we buy a building in our area to sell these
00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:52.799
things? How would we like actually create real
00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:54.159
world problems and let the kids kind of lean
00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:55.980
into it? And if not, every kid is into that,
00:10:55.980 --> 00:10:57.259
then say, Okay, your group is going to design
00:10:57.259 --> 00:10:59.000
something else, right? You guys are into, you
00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:01.240
know, Pokemon cards, go ahead and develop a,
00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:03.960
you know, a kiosk for that. So keeping it tied
00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:05.440
to the math, but then making it something that
00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:07.440
they're excited about. And again, that was just
00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:09.200
me on the fly. It would take a lot more time
00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:10.399
to actually structure it and make sure you have
00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:12.179
the you're going over all the actual things like
00:11:12.179 --> 00:11:13.580
I want to make sure you show this this and that.
00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:15.559
But I'll tell you on my last year when I was
00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:17.720
teaching first grade. an interesting thing happened.
00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:20.679
It was the last six weeks of the school year
00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:23.919
and we've covered every standard. When you've
00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:25.320
taught a class for a while, a grade for a while,
00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:26.639
you start to get really good at it. I felt real
00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:28.759
bad for my first year of first grade class because
00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:30.799
I didn't know what I was doing. But by the third
00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:33.700
year, I was doing really great. But that last
00:11:33.700 --> 00:11:35.519
year, I was like, okay, let's start going into
00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:36.960
second grade stuff. Well, the second grade teachers
00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:38.740
actually came to me and said, don't do that.
00:11:38.820 --> 00:11:40.259
I was like, what do you mean? Don't go ahead
00:11:40.259 --> 00:11:41.879
because then we don't know what we're going to
00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:43.990
do. And I'm like, wait a minute, this is messed
00:11:43.990 --> 00:11:46.169
up. I mean, they're excited. They want to keep
00:11:46.169 --> 00:11:48.970
learning. But so what I did instead was I said,
00:11:48.990 --> 00:11:50.289
all right, we're going to do something. I called
00:11:50.289 --> 00:11:52.409
it interest -based learning, which now I think
00:11:52.409 --> 00:11:54.929
is probably more project -based is probably the
00:11:54.929 --> 00:11:57.990
more modern term for it now. But basically, I
00:11:57.990 --> 00:12:00.110
said, pick anything, any topic you want. I don't
00:12:00.110 --> 00:12:01.629
care what the subject is. And then I want you
00:12:01.629 --> 00:12:04.490
to teach. I want you to learn how to develop
00:12:04.490 --> 00:12:06.190
math problems that are around that topic. I want
00:12:06.190 --> 00:12:07.690
you to learn the history of whatever that topic
00:12:07.690 --> 00:12:09.529
is. I want you to write about that topic. So
00:12:09.529 --> 00:12:11.490
I basically hit all the areas. And then if there's
00:12:11.490 --> 00:12:12.750
any science involved, we're going to figure out
00:12:12.750 --> 00:12:14.129
a way to get science involved into the topic
00:12:14.129 --> 00:12:15.809
as well. So they cover their main core areas.
00:12:16.269 --> 00:12:18.129
And then at the end of the six weeks, they had
00:12:18.129 --> 00:12:19.789
to do like a kind of a capstone project. And
00:12:19.789 --> 00:12:22.190
these are six year olds with access to laptops
00:12:22.190 --> 00:12:24.690
and the Internet at the time. So it was incredible
00:12:24.690 --> 00:12:26.470
to see the stuff they came up with. And I basically
00:12:26.470 --> 00:12:28.590
didn't have much structure. But I will tell you,
00:12:28.590 --> 00:12:30.799
I had a assistant principal come in, saw the
00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:32.100
beginning of the lesson. She goes, this is your
00:12:32.100 --> 00:12:34.379
way over their heads. She said, she's, this is
00:12:34.379 --> 00:12:36.120
a terrible idea. I've taught first grade forever.
00:12:36.500 --> 00:12:38.519
These kids will never be able to do what you're
00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:39.919
asking them to do. And I was like, you know what,
00:12:40.019 --> 00:12:41.919
you might be surprised if you set the expectations
00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:43.899
a little bit. Sometimes kids rise to the challenge
00:12:43.899 --> 00:12:45.200
and they did, they all knocked it out of the
00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:47.080
park. It was awesome. And that's when I started
00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:49.120
thinking, okay, I've been doing this the wrong
00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:51.559
way. I've been starting with the textbook and
00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:54.149
the standards. and then instead I should be starting
00:12:54.149 --> 00:12:56.049
with their engagement and then working those
00:12:56.049 --> 00:12:58.269
in the other direction. I think that's kind of
00:12:58.269 --> 00:13:00.909
the key is in there somewhere. Or curiosity.
00:13:01.309 --> 00:13:03.830
I think that would be another great term to flip
00:13:03.830 --> 00:13:06.610
that with. If you could spark their curiosity
00:13:06.610 --> 00:13:09.029
from the very beginning. And I think those six
00:13:09.029 --> 00:13:11.570
-year -olds are probably at that sweet spot for
00:13:11.570 --> 00:13:14.129
that still. Oh my gosh, yeah. Because they haven't
00:13:14.129 --> 00:13:18.909
had the routines of an industrialized school
00:13:18.909 --> 00:13:21.730
beat it out of them yet at the time that they
00:13:21.730 --> 00:13:25.110
get to high school or whatever. But yeah, to
00:13:25.110 --> 00:13:27.129
me, some things might be over their heads, but
00:13:27.129 --> 00:13:29.230
they're going to be engaged. They're going to
00:13:29.230 --> 00:13:31.909
have this curious spark to continue learning
00:13:31.909 --> 00:13:35.009
that hopefully you can instill and build and
00:13:35.009 --> 00:13:36.570
grow throughout all the rest of those years,
00:13:36.710 --> 00:13:39.529
you know? Yeah. And you don't. And again, you
00:13:39.529 --> 00:13:41.789
can't. The problem is, and this is I was challenged
00:13:41.789 --> 00:13:44.370
by someone who was on because back when George
00:13:44.370 --> 00:13:47.169
Bush was a governor of the state, someone was
00:13:47.169 --> 00:13:48.970
on his commission that started the No Child Left
00:13:48.970 --> 00:13:51.470
Behind. And so, of course, really big into testing
00:13:51.470 --> 00:13:55.799
and that. And so I got challenged at a at a parent
00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:57.519
meeting when we're doing all our technology thing,
00:13:57.759 --> 00:13:59.659
where I was talking about how curiosity is up,
00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:02.139
engagement is up, collaboration is up. All of
00:14:02.139 --> 00:14:03.460
these things we're measuring with kids because
00:14:03.460 --> 00:14:06.120
we did some pre and post data before we did the
00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:08.019
rollout of the devices, again, way back when,
00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:11.259
2011. I remember this guy stood up and he's on
00:14:11.259 --> 00:14:13.419
Bush's... like team, he goes, Yeah, well, you
00:14:13.419 --> 00:14:15.419
can't measure that you can't grade that. And
00:14:15.419 --> 00:14:17.220
I was like, it's a shame you can't, because I
00:14:17.220 --> 00:14:18.940
mean, I think that's really an important part.
00:14:19.059 --> 00:14:21.460
I go, the way you really, the way you really
00:14:21.460 --> 00:14:23.379
measure it is like, it's a math problem. It's
00:14:23.379 --> 00:14:26.120
how fast are the kids running away from your
00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:27.799
class versus how fast are they running towards
00:14:27.799 --> 00:14:30.039
your class? Like, that's the problem. That's
00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:33.179
the the ultimate test of engagement, right. And
00:14:33.179 --> 00:14:35.750
he just kind of shook his head and And he and
00:14:35.750 --> 00:14:37.990
I have battled online on Twitter and stuff. He
00:14:37.990 --> 00:14:39.970
had said, yeah, he was an interesting guy, a
00:14:39.970 --> 00:14:42.429
political dude. But he also was open to the idea
00:14:42.429 --> 00:14:44.649
of like, OK, maybe I see some of the idea that
00:14:44.649 --> 00:14:46.289
we do need to engage our kids and we need to
00:14:46.289 --> 00:14:47.809
teach them how to collaborate. And then once
00:14:47.809 --> 00:14:49.350
the World Economic Forum starts coming out with
00:14:49.350 --> 00:14:51.580
their list of like. the top things that students
00:14:51.580 --> 00:14:53.799
need. And you don't see math, science, social
00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:56.279
studies on that list. It's, you know, it's AI,
00:14:56.539 --> 00:14:58.519
it's problem solving, it's creative thinking.
00:14:59.179 --> 00:15:00.899
I think that's, when you start seeing that, I
00:15:00.899 --> 00:15:02.639
think that starts kind of swaying the, you know,
00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:04.139
because all of us have gone to school and that's
00:15:04.139 --> 00:15:05.500
what parents all have in common. They've all
00:15:05.500 --> 00:15:07.559
experienced K -12, therefore it should be like
00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:09.120
when they were in school, right? How many times
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:11.940
do you hear that? Yeah, back in my day. I'm starting
00:15:11.940 --> 00:15:14.399
to do it now too, so I shouldn't say that. I'm
00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:16.019
getting the grays and the beards is getting bad.
00:15:16.829 --> 00:15:19.309
So is that where you think some of the disconnect
00:15:19.309 --> 00:15:23.169
is like because we have been Because standards
00:15:23.169 --> 00:15:26.509
can kind of make things a bit Rigid and you have
00:15:26.509 --> 00:15:28.250
you know, you there's like expectations around
00:15:28.250 --> 00:15:30.029
what you have to meet and stuff Do you think
00:15:30.029 --> 00:15:33.350
that that lends itself to? Not allowing for some
00:15:33.350 --> 00:15:36.210
creativity or flexibility Like you said where
00:15:36.210 --> 00:15:38.370
you were done with the standards and you you
00:15:38.370 --> 00:15:41.250
your kids met all those but then there was resistance
00:15:41.250 --> 00:15:45.429
to They were they were ready to move on but the
00:15:45.429 --> 00:15:48.789
system wasn't ready to move them on. Oh my gosh,
00:15:49.129 --> 00:15:50.909
yeah. I mean, you're right on point. I think
00:15:50.909 --> 00:15:53.169
the age, when you think about, again, you guys
00:15:53.169 --> 00:15:54.629
both mentioned the industrial model, the factory
00:15:54.629 --> 00:15:56.669
model. It's turn them out at this year, born
00:15:56.669 --> 00:15:57.970
in this year, therefore you're going to the school.
00:15:58.370 --> 00:16:00.330
There's so many kids I've had where like this
00:16:00.330 --> 00:16:02.409
kid comes in reading at like a fifth grade level
00:16:02.409 --> 00:16:05.279
and I'm supposed to teach her. You know how to
00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:06.679
read. It's not good. I mean, she already knows
00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:08.700
how to read. So like instead I should figure
00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:10.580
out. But what do we do? We say, OK, you're in
00:16:10.580 --> 00:16:12.100
charge of you're like the tutor for all your
00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:14.259
friends now. Well, that's not really fair to
00:16:14.259 --> 00:16:15.720
her either, because how is she going to learn
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:18.559
and grow? And so I think that's a huge big factory
00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:20.679
model thing that we that's hard to change. It's
00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:23.039
just almost impossible to change. But we can
00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:24.580
change in our classrooms that engagement and
00:16:24.580 --> 00:16:26.340
how do we engage and how do we tie into this
00:16:26.340 --> 00:16:28.460
curiosity levels like you're saying, Jeremy,
00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:31.379
and really building that in. And I think that's
00:16:31.379 --> 00:16:33.240
part of it. I think once once we start to realize
00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:35.789
that I did, I will have some teachers that'll
00:16:35.789 --> 00:16:38.090
say like, well, my job is I have to teach these
00:16:38.090 --> 00:16:40.509
standards. And this is like, and I go, the problem
00:16:40.509 --> 00:16:42.970
is you're thinking of those as a ceiling. Like
00:16:42.970 --> 00:16:45.210
that's as far as you can go. They should be your
00:16:45.210 --> 00:16:47.610
floor. like the floor of the standards after
00:16:47.610 --> 00:16:49.370
that it should just be you continue to grow and
00:16:49.370 --> 00:16:51.389
do whatever you want it's not a you have to teach
00:16:51.389 --> 00:16:52.970
this because there's it's all in your mindset
00:16:52.970 --> 00:16:54.629
if you think it's like this is locking me down
00:16:54.629 --> 00:16:56.809
and i only have to teach this way ap teachers
00:16:56.809 --> 00:16:58.230
do this all the time they're like well we have
00:16:58.230 --> 00:17:00.549
to teach based on you know what the college board
00:17:00.549 --> 00:17:02.389
tells us and i was like the college board just
00:17:02.389 --> 00:17:03.990
tells you what you need to teach it doesn't tell
00:17:03.990 --> 00:17:06.890
you how to teach and I think some teachers see
00:17:06.890 --> 00:17:08.650
that and they go, I have to be limited based
00:17:08.650 --> 00:17:10.589
on what the college board tells me, which is
00:17:10.589 --> 00:17:12.170
in its own right, a big, I don't know if you
00:17:12.170 --> 00:17:13.309
guys are familiar with them, but they're a big
00:17:13.309 --> 00:17:16.990
organization. Not mafia run, but could be. Sorry.
00:17:17.250 --> 00:17:18.690
If you're someone with the college board, I apologize.
00:17:18.789 --> 00:17:22.490
Don't come after me. But I feel like, again,
00:17:22.589 --> 00:17:24.430
it's just a mindset shift. It's going from floor
00:17:24.430 --> 00:17:27.789
to ceiling. It just says, okay, this is the minimum
00:17:27.789 --> 00:17:28.869
I'm going to teach, but I'm going to go above
00:17:28.869 --> 00:17:34.710
and beyond that with my students. they're wanting
00:17:34.710 --> 00:17:39.069
to see that they're getting good data from classrooms
00:17:39.069 --> 00:17:42.470
and the data might just be based around are you
00:17:42.470 --> 00:17:44.369
meeting the standards, are the kids ready to
00:17:44.369 --> 00:17:46.769
move on to the next thing. So do you think that
00:17:46.769 --> 00:17:51.109
too is, that prohibits a bit of what you might
00:17:51.109 --> 00:17:53.250
be able to do in the classroom or what would
00:17:53.250 --> 00:17:56.549
be your advice to somebody that's looking to
00:17:56.549 --> 00:17:59.410
meet those standards but then at the same time
00:17:59.410 --> 00:18:01.730
take it to the next level to create more engagement
00:18:01.730 --> 00:18:04.250
in the classroom? Yeah, that's a great question.
00:18:04.430 --> 00:18:06.430
And I think when I wrote one of the books I wrote
00:18:06.430 --> 00:18:10.170
Ready, Set, Fail is about creating spaces and
00:18:10.170 --> 00:18:11.809
opportunities for kids to make mistakes in the
00:18:11.809 --> 00:18:13.890
classroom and make them fail. Well, one of the
00:18:13.890 --> 00:18:15.230
parts of the chapters I put in there, because
00:18:15.230 --> 00:18:17.369
I actually had someone send me a note about it.
00:18:17.369 --> 00:18:18.849
And they're like, hey, well, this is great. But
00:18:18.849 --> 00:18:21.849
my structure, meaning their administrator, the
00:18:21.849 --> 00:18:24.049
culture in their school building, was very much
00:18:24.049 --> 00:18:25.990
we are going to be rigid. We're going to be on
00:18:25.990 --> 00:18:29.470
time. Everybody's going to walk in lines. So
00:18:29.470 --> 00:18:32.369
she asked me, how do I create a space? where
00:18:32.369 --> 00:18:34.269
we can still have those little mini opportunities.
00:18:35.170 --> 00:18:37.049
Don't get me wrong, it's harder when you have
00:18:37.049 --> 00:18:38.450
that. When you don't have an administrator that
00:18:38.450 --> 00:18:39.910
sees it or believes it, then it's going to be
00:18:39.910 --> 00:18:42.650
trickier. You have to almost say, okay, when
00:18:42.650 --> 00:18:44.690
I close my door, my space is my space and I'm
00:18:44.690 --> 00:18:46.410
going to have opportunity for them. But yes,
00:18:46.430 --> 00:18:47.670
we're going to get to the standards and yes,
00:18:47.670 --> 00:18:49.049
that's going to happen. But if you've looked
00:18:49.049 --> 00:18:50.809
at any data from project -based learning for
00:18:50.809 --> 00:18:54.460
the last several decades, it always trends in
00:18:54.460 --> 00:18:55.960
the same direction. It's that the kids always
00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:58.640
crush whatever standardized assessments you take.
00:18:59.500 --> 00:19:02.720
And they have better life skills as a result
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:03.900
of it, because they're able to work with others
00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:07.559
better. The problem is that it's not teaching
00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:11.400
on a traditional... scope and sequence. Um, you
00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:12.839
know, we all learned those men when I went to
00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:14.420
school is, uh, man, I can't remember the name
00:19:14.420 --> 00:19:16.299
of now the type of there's a lesson planner.
00:19:16.299 --> 00:19:19.039
You had to have your antecedents and your objective
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:21.400
and your step by step. It's almost like a recipe,
00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:23.880
right? Um, and if you did, oh, Matt Madeline
00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:27.339
Hunter, that was going through my brain. Somebody
00:19:27.339 --> 00:19:29.220
out there drink right now because that was, we
00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:31.519
just, we just brought up PTSD of Madeline Hunter,
00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:34.680
but you know, And it's funny, because at the
00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:36.740
same time, while Hunter's design was really taken
00:19:36.740 --> 00:19:38.359
off, there was this other guy named Harry Wong.
00:19:38.420 --> 00:19:40.519
If you remember Harry Wong, yeah, his whole thing
00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:43.059
was like, be out there, you know, shaking the
00:19:43.059 --> 00:19:45.160
kids hands, getting them excited. So he was like
00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:47.119
trying to bring on the culture part of it. He
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:49.119
was ahead of his time in many ways, too. So I
00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:51.000
think long story short, what you're what you're
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:52.420
asking me, David, was that, you know, again,
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:54.180
getting around that is tricky. So you have to
00:19:54.180 --> 00:19:56.059
almost create like mini environments within your
00:19:56.059 --> 00:19:58.599
classroom to do that. But then I'll say for the
00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:00.740
leaders out there that are listening. There is
00:20:00.740 --> 00:20:02.880
such a thing, I call it false growth mindset.
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:04.660
When Carol DeWette came out with the growth mindset
00:20:04.660 --> 00:20:06.819
stuff, everybody was espousing it and quoting
00:20:06.819 --> 00:20:08.920
it, and I loved it because I agree with a lot
00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:10.720
of what she's talked about in principle. The
00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:13.099
problem is a lot of administrators will say that's
00:20:13.099 --> 00:20:14.900
what we should do, but they aren't actually doing
00:20:14.900 --> 00:20:17.579
it. I'll give you an example. I had a assistant
00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:20.019
superintendent, he sent me a... we had just switched
00:20:20.019 --> 00:20:22.640
over to Google. And he was still using spreadsheets
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:24.099
and sending them as attachments. And he'd sent
00:20:24.099 --> 00:20:26.000
me the spreadsheet like 14 times. Like, every
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:27.380
time he sent me this, I told me it's another
00:20:27.380 --> 00:20:29.960
copy. I go, let's put it in Google Sheets. And
00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:31.380
then we can just collaborate on it. And he was
00:20:31.380 --> 00:20:33.279
like, No, I don't, I don't want to learn that.
00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:34.960
I don't I don't have time for that. And let me
00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:36.559
tell you, he was the one that would go out and
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:38.059
speak to schools and tell them that they had
00:20:38.059 --> 00:20:39.599
to have a growth mindset. I was like, you're
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:41.579
exhibiting the exact opposite of that, right?
00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:44.240
So that's almost worse, too. It's like, it's
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:45.799
one thing that like, I know, I'm a fixed mindset.
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:47.519
But it's worse. It's like, I have false growth
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:49.720
mindset, meaning I I think I have it, but I actually
00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:52.960
don't. So yeah, it definitely comes down to principals
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.000
and somewhat district leaders. But I would say
00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:57.779
the principal probably controls that narrative
00:20:57.779 --> 00:20:59.220
of what the culture looks like in a classroom.
00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:02.140
My daughter had an old middle school principal
00:21:02.140 --> 00:21:04.460
who sent out a letter that said, Oh, the state's
00:21:04.460 --> 00:21:06.759
coming by to look at our test scores and all
00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:08.519
this. And he goes, and he wrote in the newsletters,
00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:10.039
like, I don't really care about any of that crap.
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:11.819
He goes, I just want them to see the smiles on
00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:13.740
our kids faces. How excited this is middle school
00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:15.559
mind you to where middle school usually kids
00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:17.819
are pretty miserable. It seems like, and he had
00:21:17.819 --> 00:21:20.160
just built this amazing culture in that building.
00:21:20.299 --> 00:21:22.440
That's where my kids went to school. And so I
00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:23.680
was, I sent him a note and he's like, I guess
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:24.960
I can't believe anybody read my newsletter. I
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:26.079
was like, no, I read it. And I was like, and
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.039
I was like clapping because you're like, yes,
00:21:28.299 --> 00:21:30.059
this is great. We're doing okay. Our test scores
00:21:30.059 --> 00:21:32.680
are fine. It's more, are the kids happy, successful?
00:21:32.859 --> 00:21:34.960
Are they going to be content with life? Um, and
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:36.559
that's a real important thing. Because those
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:38.059
kids I taught in first grade, let me tell you,
00:21:38.140 --> 00:21:41.779
they're 28 and 29 years old now. And they've
00:21:41.779 --> 00:21:43.619
friended me on Facebook. And they've told me
00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:45.940
they still remember all of those experiences,
00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:47.660
all of those things. They don't remember the
00:21:47.660 --> 00:21:50.140
tests and the quizzes. They remember how we designed
00:21:50.140 --> 00:21:52.119
the classroom to look like a jungle. And we all
00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:54.279
dressed up as animals and talked about habitats
00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:56.420
and things like that. Went to Harry Potter. We
00:21:56.420 --> 00:21:57.759
read the book Harry Potter, then we went to the
00:21:57.759 --> 00:21:59.859
movie theater after school on an unofficial field
00:21:59.859 --> 00:22:02.039
trip where the parents, by the way, left all
00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:03.500
their kids with me, which is kind of crazy. They
00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:05.319
just dropped them off. I was like, no, you're
00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:06.880
supposed to stay. And they all left as me and
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:09.799
22 kids in a theater. But I mean, those things
00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:11.220
they remember, though. And that would have been
00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:13.940
the time to have your bar open and have a movie
00:22:13.940 --> 00:22:17.240
theater. Brilliant. There is an Austin, a actual
00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:19.599
bar next to a daycare. And they have a window.
00:22:19.740 --> 00:22:21.660
I'm not making this up. They have a window where
00:22:21.660 --> 00:22:23.920
you could go into the bar and look into the daycare,
00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:27.319
your kids while you're like, uh, tell me you
00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:30.460
have a problem without telling me. Maybe, maybe,
00:22:30.460 --> 00:22:31.779
maybe a little too much on the drinking, but
00:22:31.779 --> 00:22:36.259
yeah, but yes, great idea. So we can't have an
00:22:36.259 --> 00:22:39.779
ed tech podcast today. I think, uh, in, in 2026
00:22:39.779 --> 00:22:42.940
and not have a conversation for a little while
00:22:42.940 --> 00:22:46.140
around the topic of AI. Hey, we made it 22 minutes
00:22:46.140 --> 00:22:48.400
guys. I'm excited. I thought that was pretty
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:51.539
impressive. I mentioned it briefly with the world
00:22:51.539 --> 00:22:53.119
economic form, but then I kind of quickly. Yeah.
00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:59.640
With the technology available in artificial intelligence
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:04.019
today, David and I talk a lot about needing to
00:23:04.019 --> 00:23:06.740
still have that human connection and needing
00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:10.420
to make sure that what we're using AI for is
00:23:10.420 --> 00:23:13.400
actually going to lead to more critical creative
00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:18.500
thinking, or at least to more efficient processes
00:23:18.500 --> 00:23:22.220
that take place. you know, as a result of that
00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:24.599
AI use. But you know, like, if you think about
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:27.900
it in terms of teachers right now, you know,
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:31.599
where do you see AI actually helping teachers
00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:34.019
and not just not just the hype of like, hey,
00:23:34.059 --> 00:23:36.240
you got to try this new thing that's out there.
00:23:36.259 --> 00:23:39.519
And, you know, like, where do you see it actually
00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:42.519
benefiting teachers and then, you know, by extension
00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:44.700
students in their classes? Well, and this is
00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:48.069
the double edged sword with this as in It's because
00:23:48.069 --> 00:23:49.589
the efficiency thing you mentioned, I think,
00:23:49.910 --> 00:23:54.109
is great. But I'm going to say, but the problem
00:23:54.109 --> 00:23:56.670
is, if you lead with that, then everybody sees
00:23:56.670 --> 00:23:58.690
it as an efficiency tool, right? And not a creative
00:23:58.690 --> 00:24:00.910
tool. And I think what's happened is there's
00:24:00.910 --> 00:24:03.690
programs like School AI, Magic School, Brisk.
00:24:03.890 --> 00:24:05.490
I mean, I know all the folks at those companies.
00:24:05.670 --> 00:24:08.880
They're great. I worry about some of the limiting
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.819
factors of those two. Like, okay, this will just
00:24:10.819 --> 00:24:12.640
be a quick way for you to make that IEP or to
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:15.299
write that email to that parent. And yeah, it
00:24:15.299 --> 00:24:17.579
does help with that. Don't get me wrong. I just
00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:19.220
want to make sure that we're not like, that's
00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:21.940
it. Like that's where it ends. Cause to me, I
00:24:21.940 --> 00:24:23.579
get really excited about the creative side of
00:24:23.579 --> 00:24:27.579
AI. You know, doing like how I open all my keynotes
00:24:27.579 --> 00:24:29.759
now is with this thing called carry AI okey.
00:24:30.220 --> 00:24:32.140
And of course, cause I have to have karaoke in
00:24:32.140 --> 00:24:35.410
there. And the way it works is I put in song
00:24:35.410 --> 00:24:37.490
lyrics into an image generator. I use Padlet.
00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:39.289
You can use whatever you want, Canva, whatever.
00:24:39.730 --> 00:24:41.789
Have it create images based on the lyrics of
00:24:41.789 --> 00:24:43.589
the song, and then see if you can guess the song
00:24:43.589 --> 00:24:46.009
just based on the images. Now, that would have
00:24:46.009 --> 00:24:48.869
taken me hours before AI. I'd have to sit there
00:24:48.869 --> 00:24:50.809
and figure out how to draw it, put it into a
00:24:50.809 --> 00:24:52.690
slide, design a slide to look like it. And then
00:24:52.690 --> 00:24:54.930
now it's just like, it creates it. I put it in,
00:24:54.930 --> 00:24:56.390
I would have never even thought to do that. So
00:24:56.390 --> 00:24:57.930
it opened up a pathway of something that I would
00:24:57.930 --> 00:24:59.490
never thought of. Now, this is silly and fun
00:24:59.490 --> 00:25:02.069
because music ties people together, but it also...
00:25:02.029 --> 00:25:04.170
Secretly what it's doing is it's actually disarming
00:25:04.170 --> 00:25:06.089
the audience because I'm showing them like hey,
00:25:06.289 --> 00:25:09.690
here's a creative use of AI quickly also songs
00:25:09.690 --> 00:25:11.309
that I choose are generally songs that are sing
00:25:11.309 --> 00:25:13.230
-along type songs everybody knows sweet Caroline
00:25:13.230 --> 00:25:15.809
and Baby got back. Well, I won't do baby got
00:25:15.809 --> 00:25:17.250
back I don't know what that image would look
00:25:17.250 --> 00:25:19.349
like that I say that ice ice babies that I meant
00:25:19.349 --> 00:25:21.470
to say but wow Now I have to go find out what
00:25:21.470 --> 00:25:24.890
that looks like no So I would do these do these
00:25:24.890 --> 00:25:26.410
things and it kind of disarms them pretty quickly
00:25:26.410 --> 00:25:28.670
But they also see like oh and also it's creative
00:25:28.670 --> 00:25:31.180
and it also you know, we've said differentiation
00:25:31.180 --> 00:25:33.740
for decades as well in schools. It actually allows
00:25:33.740 --> 00:25:35.160
for some of that, because now if you have visual
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:37.299
learners, you can design artwork around it or
00:25:37.299 --> 00:25:39.759
images around it. If you have learners of other
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:41.240
languages, if you've looked at it, you guys been
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:43.619
playing around with notebook, LM's latest updates.
00:25:44.180 --> 00:25:45.519
I mean, they have so much new stuff just came
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:47.759
out even the last week, but the languages on
00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:49.539
there are great. So now you can have the podcast
00:25:49.539 --> 00:25:51.680
or those same two hosts, but instead they're
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:52.900
doing it in a different language that the kid
00:25:52.900 --> 00:25:55.359
understands or making a video that the kid will
00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:56.900
pick up the language a little bit faster. So.
00:25:56.940 --> 00:25:59.640
kind of overcoming those gaps. And so I, I just
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:01.920
think, I mean, to be honest, AI has been around
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.960
for decades, but generative AI is fairly new.
00:26:05.259 --> 00:26:07.559
And so, you know, the opportunities, what it
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:09.779
provides for kids in terms of that, that differentiation,
00:26:09.900 --> 00:26:11.680
that personalization, all that stuff I talked
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:13.160
about with that first grade class way back when,
00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:14.400
where they could do interest -based learning.
00:26:14.779 --> 00:26:17.380
Oh my gosh, have we had AI back then? Who knows
00:26:17.380 --> 00:26:19.380
what they would have come up with, like designing
00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:22.529
different models for basketball or, you know,
00:26:22.630 --> 00:26:23.769
figuring out, you know, because every kid had
00:26:23.769 --> 00:26:25.150
a different topic, you know, and so it's like,
00:26:25.170 --> 00:26:26.390
just thinking about all this stuff that you come
00:26:26.390 --> 00:26:28.190
up with, but, or even reading the book Harry
00:26:28.190 --> 00:26:29.549
Potter, where they don't have images. And we
00:26:29.549 --> 00:26:31.890
imagine what Hagrid maybe looked like in that
00:26:31.890 --> 00:26:33.690
book. And every kid kind of draws out what it
00:26:33.690 --> 00:26:35.609
looked like. And then we use AI to come up with
00:26:35.609 --> 00:26:37.049
descriptive words to show it. Again, this is
00:26:37.049 --> 00:26:39.630
first grade, but we're showing them in an early
00:26:39.630 --> 00:26:41.569
stage, like, Hey, this is how your AI literate.
00:26:41.750 --> 00:26:43.809
This is how you use it as a creative tool. And
00:26:43.809 --> 00:26:45.490
then let's look at the image it creates and decide,
00:26:45.710 --> 00:26:47.150
is it the image that we thought of in our head?
00:26:47.329 --> 00:26:48.869
What's different? What's not? Again, critical
00:26:48.869 --> 00:26:52.319
thinking then. So. I think it starts at kindergarten
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:53.920
and you show them those creative elements. The
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:56.400
more we can push that forward, the less I'll
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:58.160
be worried about. It's going to be an efficiency
00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:00.720
tool that helps us work, do things faster, and
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.859
kids can maybe cheat or get around things quicker
00:27:02.859 --> 00:27:05.619
because we're focusing too much on that part
00:27:05.619 --> 00:27:07.359
of it. So that's why I always say the double
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:09.480
-edged sword of that, yes, it's efficient, but
00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:11.920
also let's not forget it's also creative. Yeah,
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:14.980
and I think you touched on some of those developing
00:27:14.980 --> 00:27:19.920
those key AI literacy skills. early on, but part
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:23.099
of me says, but it still comes down to the teacher
00:27:23.099 --> 00:27:25.680
to be able to offer those opportunities to their
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:30.160
students. And so how much teacher judgment should
00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:33.160
go into whether or not they bring AI in front
00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:37.180
of their students? Is it something we need? To
00:27:37.180 --> 00:27:40.579
do principles do admins need to say you have
00:27:40.579 --> 00:27:42.440
to make sure that you're at least introducing
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:46.380
students to AI or you're giving them opportunities
00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:49.579
to, you know, learn from the tool, you know.
00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:52.880
iterate, make mistakes, try something different
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:55.480
if you're not getting results you need. Or is
00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:57.779
it something where you have a teacher and we
00:27:57.779 --> 00:28:00.140
should honor and respect their wishes if they
00:28:00.140 --> 00:28:03.819
say no absolutely I teach English and all my
00:28:03.819 --> 00:28:06.460
students are gonna do is use it to cheat and
00:28:06.460 --> 00:28:09.000
write their papers so therefore I'm gonna draw
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:11.339
a line in the sand and you know maybe even in
00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:13.950
concrete because no one's gonna cross that. Right,
00:28:14.369 --> 00:28:16.369
you know, like no student would ever try to get
00:28:16.369 --> 00:28:19.609
around that. I'm yeah, I think that's a danger
00:28:19.609 --> 00:28:21.950
and I think I mean you're I think what you're
00:28:21.950 --> 00:28:23.549
saying is the essential question here and that's
00:28:23.549 --> 00:28:26.009
in it. Yes, principals make decisions. Districts
00:28:26.009 --> 00:28:27.529
make decisions. Tech leaders say whether or not
00:28:27.529 --> 00:28:29.130
you can use this tool or this tool or data and
00:28:29.130 --> 00:28:31.059
this and that. But ultimately comes down to use
00:28:31.059 --> 00:28:33.079
the teacher to say, like, am I comfortable with
00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:35.279
my students using this tool to help them learn?
00:28:35.700 --> 00:28:38.000
Or if you're in the case of, let's say, K -12,
00:28:38.619 --> 00:28:40.200
where they're really little, like, am I comfortable
00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:41.960
at least talking to them about the foundational
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:45.759
idea of what AI actually is and not anthropomorphizing
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:47.539
it, where they think it's actually a creature
00:28:47.539 --> 00:28:50.119
or a person or a human? I mean, I refer to the
00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:51.900
thing that's in this office. I won't say her
00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:54.940
name because she'll see I said her. But Alexa,
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:58.619
oh, dang it, I said it. But yeah, they like even
00:28:58.619 --> 00:29:01.250
that CA that makes it into like almost a human
00:29:01.250 --> 00:29:03.329
being in that sense of teaching kids at an early
00:29:03.329 --> 00:29:06.309
age about it. You know, if we don't do it, then
00:29:06.309 --> 00:29:07.990
we assume what that the parents are going to
00:29:07.990 --> 00:29:09.170
be the ones that are going to teach kids how
00:29:09.170 --> 00:29:11.130
to use AI appropriately. We all know that parents
00:29:11.130 --> 00:29:12.470
don't have time for that either. And they don't
00:29:12.470 --> 00:29:13.670
even know themselves because we're all learning
00:29:13.670 --> 00:29:16.309
at the same time, much like social media back
00:29:16.309 --> 00:29:18.769
in the early 2010s, right? We all kind of got
00:29:18.769 --> 00:29:20.210
it at the same time. We figured it out at the
00:29:20.210 --> 00:29:22.230
same time. And now if you're on social media,
00:29:22.250 --> 00:29:23.849
you can see kind of the goods and the bads of
00:29:23.849 --> 00:29:26.609
what happens with social media, right? So I think
00:29:26.609 --> 00:29:28.930
it's a it should be a prerogative of every school
00:29:28.930 --> 00:29:31.349
to have some sort of scope and sequence starting
00:29:31.349 --> 00:29:34.589
in K pre K all the way up. And at the early stages,
00:29:34.650 --> 00:29:36.410
it's modeling showing that early behavior, because
00:29:36.410 --> 00:29:37.930
that's when you're really getting those foundational
00:29:37.930 --> 00:29:40.690
skills going, OK, this is interesting. I'm using
00:29:40.690 --> 00:29:42.329
it for this, this and this, but I'm not going
00:29:42.329 --> 00:29:43.970
to use it for this, this and this. And as they
00:29:43.970 --> 00:29:45.950
get on into the upper grades and then middle
00:29:45.950 --> 00:29:47.670
school and high school, then I think it becomes
00:29:47.670 --> 00:29:49.630
a modeling of like, OK, we're going to use it.
00:29:49.710 --> 00:29:51.309
and here's how we're going to use it. You're
00:29:51.309 --> 00:29:53.650
going to have it draft the paper that I want
00:29:53.650 --> 00:29:55.609
you to write. You're going to start with that
00:29:55.609 --> 00:29:57.410
as your draft. Have AI come up with a draft.
00:29:57.569 --> 00:29:59.009
Here, write the whole paper for me. That's fine.
00:29:59.569 --> 00:30:00.950
Now, give me your first draft and that's the
00:30:00.950 --> 00:30:02.509
AI draft. Now, what I want you to do is go back
00:30:02.509 --> 00:30:05.049
and revise the AI draft and make it a better
00:30:05.049 --> 00:30:07.309
paper. I want you to be smarter than AI. I want
00:30:07.309 --> 00:30:08.890
you to sound better than AI and I want to put
00:30:08.890 --> 00:30:10.950
yourself in this paper and know more about it
00:30:10.950 --> 00:30:13.130
because AI is not perfect. It has fallacies all
00:30:13.130 --> 00:30:16.000
the time. As a result of that, I'm going to say
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:18.400
that's your first draft now. And I'm not going
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:20.240
to accept it. I need to see your final draft.
00:30:20.740 --> 00:30:22.859
Or flip it the next time. Go, hey, this time
00:30:22.859 --> 00:30:24.440
you're going to write the first draft. But when
00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:25.680
you get to a certain stage, when you're done
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:27.160
with your first draft, put it into AI and have
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:28.980
it give you some suggestions for improvements.
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:31.500
And then when you hand it in, I want to see your
00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:35.039
draft with the AI accepted improvements. Be transparent.
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:37.240
And I think doing those things instead of saying
00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:41.359
just don't use it, I think. You're actually grading
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:43.380
them more on the learning process by doing that
00:30:43.380 --> 00:30:45.539
versus the final product, which is something
00:30:45.539 --> 00:30:47.079
I've heard quite a bit since AI has come out.
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:49.019
It's like, we should do process over product,
00:30:49.099 --> 00:30:51.359
which I agree. But I think there has to be some
00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:53.099
product involved. But I think it needs to be
00:30:53.099 --> 00:30:55.119
a balance of both. And so if I say, hey, I'm
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:56.539
going to grade you on your first draft, the AI
00:30:56.539 --> 00:30:58.579
revisions, what you accepted, what you didn't
00:30:58.579 --> 00:31:00.980
accept, your final draft. If you work with another
00:31:00.980 --> 00:31:03.200
student to peer collaborate, that should be a
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:05.140
part of it too. So again, keeping the human in
00:31:05.140 --> 00:31:08.279
the loop. I think that's kind of the way to go.
00:31:08.380 --> 00:31:10.380
If you're an ELA teacher, don't run away from
00:31:10.380 --> 00:31:12.579
it. Just structure it and say, hey, we're going
00:31:12.579 --> 00:31:14.059
to use it to brainstorm ideas for our paper,
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:16.380
but that's it today. Or the next time, hey, you've
00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:18.519
done your paper, ask it to give you reflection
00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:20.259
questions. And I want you to answer the reflection
00:31:20.259 --> 00:31:22.359
questions it gave you. So again, you're using
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:24.019
it to help, but that's always about the human
00:31:24.019 --> 00:31:26.460
in the center of all that. And I think you're
00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:28.799
exactly spot on. I was actually going to throw
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:33.099
that word reflection out. If you can put students
00:31:33.099 --> 00:31:35.240
in the situation where they need to reflect upon
00:31:35.579 --> 00:31:37.660
what the AI is suggesting that they're doing,
00:31:37.819 --> 00:31:39.720
they're using that higher level thinking skills.
00:31:40.019 --> 00:31:43.579
They're engaging with their thinking in ways
00:31:43.579 --> 00:31:45.599
that they wouldn't have done before when you
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:47.980
just say, hey, I just watched your final draft,
00:31:47.980 --> 00:31:49.720
turn it in, it's due in two weeks, I'll read
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:54.019
it then. You're not getting any of that process
00:31:54.019 --> 00:31:58.000
along the way. And now, yes, you get to that
00:31:58.000 --> 00:31:59.660
final product, they turn it in, but they also
00:31:59.660 --> 00:32:01.559
then have to reflect upon that product in all
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:03.559
of those different ways, like you just mentioned.
00:32:03.819 --> 00:32:06.559
Yeah, I was working with Florida Virtual Schools
00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:08.680
last year. I did a keynote with them. And it's
00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:10.099
interesting. Florida Virtual Schools are massive.
00:32:10.220 --> 00:32:12.559
I mean, they have 3 ,000, 4 ,000 teachers. They're
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:14.240
all over the country, too. They're not just Florida.
00:32:14.900 --> 00:32:17.640
And they're really kind of figuring out how to
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:19.579
embrace AI, because obviously, their kids are
00:32:19.579 --> 00:32:21.759
at home. So they don't have any way of looking
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:23.140
over their shoulder to see if they're actually
00:32:23.140 --> 00:32:26.180
using it. But what they do is, every week, they
00:32:26.180 --> 00:32:28.960
do these little, they're called DBAs, discussion
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.349
-based assessments, where essentially, They get
00:32:31.349 --> 00:32:33.210
on a call with their student and for 15 minutes
00:32:33.210 --> 00:32:34.509
they just talked about the work they've been
00:32:34.509 --> 00:32:37.170
doing. And in that 15 minutes they said they
00:32:37.170 --> 00:32:39.690
could discern pretty much right on point what
00:32:39.690 --> 00:32:41.369
are the kids actually learning and taking and
00:32:41.369 --> 00:32:43.490
what they're not. And so even those informal
00:32:43.490 --> 00:32:45.069
discussions now this is where the efficiency
00:32:45.069 --> 00:32:46.730
we talked about earlier might come in handy.
00:32:47.150 --> 00:32:49.109
Now if I have AI helping me speed up some stuff
00:32:49.109 --> 00:32:50.970
maybe I have more time to have informal discussions
00:32:50.970 --> 00:32:52.730
with my students and figure out like what are
00:32:52.730 --> 00:32:54.829
they actually learning. And like you said I think
00:32:54.829 --> 00:32:56.549
reflection is the thing that we always cut out
00:32:56.549 --> 00:32:58.730
because we're always in a hurry. So man just
00:32:58.730 --> 00:33:00.940
have them. Ask answer a couple of reflection
00:33:00.940 --> 00:33:02.500
questions that could be part of the grade like
00:33:02.500 --> 00:33:05.099
a as part of this final product I want you to
00:33:05.099 --> 00:33:07.039
answer three or four reflection questions and
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:08.819
and maybe it's verbal or maybe it's just you
00:33:08.819 --> 00:33:10.720
write it down I mean, I guess if they write it
00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:12.640
down they could ask AI to reflect for them But
00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:15.059
but yeah, you could tell you don't need a cheat
00:33:15.059 --> 00:33:17.000
detector anymore It's got too many of those M
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:19.180
dashes and and you know, it likes the emojis
00:33:19.180 --> 00:33:20.880
too much. It's it's pretty obvious when it's
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:27.339
AI anyway So Carl, we can kind of maybe segue
00:33:27.339 --> 00:33:30.880
here too with the AI conversation into the leadership
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:34.420
part of this. We already kind of brought this
00:33:34.420 --> 00:33:36.160
up because we were talking about the standards
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:39.220
and how there's a bit of rigidity to the system.
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:45.140
And the one thing that maybe there's some opportunity
00:33:45.140 --> 00:33:48.660
here is to open things up a little bit more for
00:33:48.660 --> 00:33:51.160
innovation with AI. And you mentioned creating
00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:54.140
and things like that, the positive uses of it.
00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:59.799
If we're looking at how could leaders help to
00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:03.640
cultivate innovation when it comes to AI, you
00:34:03.640 --> 00:34:05.880
know, I know that we, like for us, we talk a
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:09.519
lot about AI guidelines and how really with some
00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:12.480
of our schools, how rigid those should be so
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:14.980
that, you know, you're not stifling all the creativity.
00:34:15.380 --> 00:34:18.920
So if you're thinking about leadership and connecting
00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:23.039
it to this current state that we're in with AI,
00:34:24.009 --> 00:34:27.849
How could leaders support teachers rather than
00:34:27.849 --> 00:34:30.769
like trying to hover or trying to make sure,
00:34:30.909 --> 00:34:32.929
you know, they've got all the stops in the way
00:34:32.929 --> 00:34:35.590
so nothing goes wrong? How can they maybe cultivate
00:34:35.590 --> 00:34:38.630
some of that innovation with this with AI? Yeah,
00:34:38.630 --> 00:34:40.650
they have to create. I mean, we tell teachers
00:34:40.650 --> 00:34:42.710
all the time to create the guardrails for how
00:34:42.710 --> 00:34:44.469
kids are using it. You know, it's not necessarily
00:34:44.469 --> 00:34:47.090
a, you know, there's a big path. It's a wide
00:34:47.090 --> 00:34:48.449
path. You can go on it. We don't want you to
00:34:48.449 --> 00:34:50.389
get too far off the path. I think leaders are
00:34:50.389 --> 00:34:52.409
doing the same thing like saying, hey, we want
00:34:52.409 --> 00:34:54.260
you to use it. There are some things we can't
00:34:54.260 --> 00:34:55.760
do. Obviously, sharing student data. There's
00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:57.139
some certain things we want to make sure we stay
00:34:57.139 --> 00:34:59.840
with. These are potholes we have to avoid. But
00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:03.159
I think they have to model it as well. Last fall,
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:05.820
I did a AI leadership boot camp with Dr. Adam
00:35:05.820 --> 00:35:08.239
Vile, who I podcast with. And we did it with
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:10.380
future ready schools. And in that, we had 12
00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:11.920
different cohorts of schools that were involved
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:14.300
in it. And it was interesting to see they're
00:35:14.300 --> 00:35:16.820
all in a different range of. from lockdown, we're
00:35:16.820 --> 00:35:19.380
not going to use it to like, we're just letting
00:35:19.380 --> 00:35:21.519
them do whatever they want, almost to extreme
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:23.639
the other direction too. And I was like, okay,
00:35:23.719 --> 00:35:25.239
well, somewhere in there is a happy medium where
00:35:25.239 --> 00:35:27.519
it's like, we can, we can cultivate, pick a tool
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:29.579
or two, don't go too crazy and pick every tool
00:35:29.579 --> 00:35:30.679
and say, Hey, let's pick a couple we're going
00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:32.860
to focus on. These will be kind of our primary
00:35:32.860 --> 00:35:34.900
tools, but there needs to be a little bit of
00:35:34.900 --> 00:35:37.239
a space for teachers to explore to say like,
00:35:37.260 --> 00:35:40.019
Ooh, maybe I want to make video. but none of
00:35:40.019 --> 00:35:41.539
these tools will create video. But I know that
00:35:41.539 --> 00:35:44.000
Google's, uh, Vio flow, which is a great video
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.199
created tool. Um, that'll make some great videos
00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:48.280
for me. So maybe, you know, having a pathway
00:35:48.280 --> 00:35:51.099
where they can ask for either a pilot test or
00:35:51.099 --> 00:35:53.519
a license for just that teacher to try it out.
00:35:53.780 --> 00:35:55.519
That was something I, you know, this is all,
00:35:55.539 --> 00:35:58.719
man, it's like deja vu because we did the iPads,
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:01.000
you know, it was like every there's 15 note taking
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:02.400
apps. You remember that? It was like, Oh, I want
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:04.900
to have no notability and the notes and the,
00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:06.659
and like every teacher wanted their own flavor.
00:36:06.699 --> 00:36:08.519
So like we had to get to a point where like,
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:10.900
okay, we, We'll let a few of you play with these
00:36:10.900 --> 00:36:12.460
other ones, but when we find the one that we
00:36:12.460 --> 00:36:14.059
like, we're gonna just buy it in bulk. We're
00:36:14.059 --> 00:36:15.440
gonna say, hey, this is what we're all gonna
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:17.639
use, and we're gonna agree on it. But you have
00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:20.059
to give them that space to explore. You gotta
00:36:20.059 --> 00:36:21.900
have those trailblazers. Every campus has them.
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:23.300
There's the person that's just willing to try
00:36:23.300 --> 00:36:26.079
whatever. Give them a little bit of extra room
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:27.480
to go out and try some different things, then
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:29.920
come back and say, hmm, I think this could be
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:31.219
a really powerful tool for student learning,
00:36:31.420 --> 00:36:34.190
or yeah, this is fun. But I don't know that it
00:36:34.190 --> 00:36:35.849
really moves the needle much when it comes to
00:36:35.849 --> 00:36:38.289
learning. So yeah, I think creating those spaces.
00:36:38.570 --> 00:36:39.949
I used to always tell teachers like the one word
00:36:39.949 --> 00:36:41.610
I used to be a tech director. So the one word
00:36:41.610 --> 00:36:44.650
that I could never say no to was pilot. So if
00:36:44.650 --> 00:36:46.570
you come up to me and say, I want to pilot something
00:36:46.570 --> 00:36:48.769
and here's how I'm going to collect the data.
00:36:48.829 --> 00:36:49.989
Here's how I'm going to make sure that it's being
00:36:49.989 --> 00:36:52.190
used correctly. Give me the whole write up. If
00:36:52.190 --> 00:36:53.829
you write it up, I will definitely let you pilot
00:36:53.829 --> 00:36:55.769
it. And that means that a pilot also means that
00:36:55.769 --> 00:36:57.570
sometimes I may turn it off. Like, OK, it didn't
00:36:57.570 --> 00:36:59.340
work. We're going to turn it off. So. Having
00:36:59.340 --> 00:37:01.460
that understanding, but we have to keep trying
00:37:01.460 --> 00:37:03.300
this. I mean, that's, I feel like our country
00:37:03.300 --> 00:37:04.880
is kind of built on the idea of innovation and
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:06.980
entrepreneurialism, but our schools aren't so.
00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:08.960
How do we create those spaces and environments
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:10.639
where we can have that innovation continue to
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:12.099
grow? And I think, you know, risk taking and
00:37:12.099 --> 00:37:14.019
failure, I mentioned it earlier, but I mean,
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:15.300
school leaders that are out there listening to
00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:17.860
this, I mean, you have to model it too. You can't
00:37:17.860 --> 00:37:19.639
just say it. You have to actually try it and
00:37:19.639 --> 00:37:21.099
do it. That means getting up in front of a faculty
00:37:21.099 --> 00:37:23.340
meeting and saying, hey, I used AI to create
00:37:23.340 --> 00:37:25.840
this funny graphic of us for our holiday card
00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:28.059
or whatever. You know, even that little subtle
00:37:28.059 --> 00:37:30.159
thing, it shows the teacher, okay, this person's
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:31.860
willing to try something different. They're willing
00:37:31.860 --> 00:37:33.639
to do it in front of a... the crowd of their
00:37:33.639 --> 00:37:36.480
peers. Um, and so I always say students don't
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:38.500
take risks unless teachers take risks and teachers
00:37:38.500 --> 00:37:40.719
won't take risks unless leaders do. And that's
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:42.320
kind of the that's kind of how it works on the
00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:44.119
food chain of risk taking. And that's how you
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:45.699
also kill innovation by saying, Okay, we're not
00:37:45.699 --> 00:37:47.119
gonna have any risk. We're not gonna have any
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:49.199
failure. It's just got to be straight and narrow.
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:51.340
By the way, being too conservative, too, in that
00:37:51.340 --> 00:37:53.980
sense, could also be a risk like not changing
00:37:53.980 --> 00:37:57.039
could also be a bad thing. So sometimes people
00:37:57.039 --> 00:37:58.400
think, Well, if we stay with the status quo,
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:00.139
that's the safest thing. Not always. I mean,
00:38:00.139 --> 00:38:03.349
sometimes the status quo has to shift to Right
00:38:03.349 --> 00:38:05.510
and actually we've seen that a little bit much.
00:38:05.510 --> 00:38:10.829
We've had some schools where they've They're
00:38:10.829 --> 00:38:13.809
behind an AI and what has been happening over
00:38:13.809 --> 00:38:17.110
the last three years Because of what you just
00:38:17.110 --> 00:38:20.949
mentioned of and I think that sometimes it is
00:38:20.949 --> 00:38:22.909
Warranted I think it can be a little bit scary
00:38:22.909 --> 00:38:24.809
with something like AI schools aren't really
00:38:24.809 --> 00:38:27.929
sure what to do or how to approach that Since
00:38:27.929 --> 00:38:30.949
it's so new to everybody But you had mentioned
00:38:30.949 --> 00:38:33.590
modeling is one thing that leaders can do. Is
00:38:33.590 --> 00:38:36.869
there, if you're looking at what makes up great
00:38:36.869 --> 00:38:40.730
tech leadership in this year that we're in, so
00:38:40.730 --> 00:38:43.989
2026 and looking kind of as far out as you possibly
00:38:43.989 --> 00:38:48.170
can, which is tough. What other skills do you
00:38:48.170 --> 00:38:52.869
see besides modeling that ed tech leaders or
00:38:52.869 --> 00:38:56.960
tech leadership should adopt? I, it's really
00:38:56.960 --> 00:38:59.000
funny, you know, years ago when I was really
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:00.900
struggling with some, with some issues with the
00:39:00.900 --> 00:39:03.639
iPads and tech problems and filters and parents
00:39:03.639 --> 00:39:05.739
and phone calls. And I was just, I remember I
00:39:05.739 --> 00:39:07.579
was just walking down a hallway once muttering
00:39:07.579 --> 00:39:09.340
to myself something I was just in a bad mood
00:39:09.340 --> 00:39:11.980
and this business office finance guy comes over
00:39:11.980 --> 00:39:13.840
to me and I was like, and he's like, you're okay.
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:15.219
And I was like, I've just, I go, I'm having a
00:39:15.219 --> 00:39:16.659
lot of problems today. And he's like, no, you're
00:39:16.659 --> 00:39:18.440
not like, what do you mean? He goes like, you're
00:39:18.440 --> 00:39:20.739
having a lot of opportunities today. And I remember
00:39:20.739 --> 00:39:24.969
going, no, that's silly. But it changed my perspective.
00:39:25.170 --> 00:39:27.389
It's funny how I was like, instead of seeing
00:39:27.389 --> 00:39:28.989
everything as a problem, see everything as an
00:39:28.989 --> 00:39:31.570
opportunity. Like, OK, so this parent has a real
00:39:31.570 --> 00:39:34.130
issue with the fact that their child has a device
00:39:34.130 --> 00:39:37.210
in their house because they don't want to have
00:39:37.210 --> 00:39:39.269
to deal with a kid with a device in their house.
00:39:39.329 --> 00:39:40.809
Now, this is, again, before smartphones have
00:39:40.809 --> 00:39:43.230
really blown up everywhere. But there's still
00:39:43.230 --> 00:39:45.800
the screen time. warriors that are out there
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:47.980
worried about it. And so now I have an opportunity
00:39:47.980 --> 00:39:49.360
to get them in front of me and actually have
00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:51.559
a discussion with them about what is, what does
00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:52.699
that screen time actually look like? What does
00:39:52.699 --> 00:39:55.039
it look like in a balanced way versus a not going
00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:57.360
to have it at all? This is the same conversation
00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:58.840
I'm having with schools right now that are banning
00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:00.860
cell phones across the country. I mean, our state's
00:40:00.860 --> 00:40:03.320
banned them too. My 17 year old daughter can't
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:05.320
bring her laptop, her MacBook to school because
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:08.570
every device is banned. And I'm like, there's
00:40:08.570 --> 00:40:10.150
something wrong when a five -year -old and an
00:40:10.150 --> 00:40:12.190
18 -year -old have the exact same rule when it
00:40:12.190 --> 00:40:14.329
comes to technology. At some point, we need to
00:40:14.329 --> 00:40:17.349
teach them to be adults and humans. But surprisingly
00:40:17.349 --> 00:40:19.070
enough, a lot of teachers, whenever I mention
00:40:19.070 --> 00:40:20.289
it, they're like, no, we're great. We're happy
00:40:20.289 --> 00:40:22.889
with it. And I was like, yeah. because not always
00:40:22.889 --> 00:40:24.789
the easy thing is the right thing. Sometimes
00:40:24.789 --> 00:40:26.409
the right thing is the hard thing. And I think
00:40:26.409 --> 00:40:28.409
that's in this case with phones, too, it's the
00:40:28.409 --> 00:40:30.110
same way. It's like it is easier not to have
00:40:30.110 --> 00:40:31.469
to deal with the distraction of don't get me
00:40:31.469 --> 00:40:33.130
wrong. And I don't think we need to put more
00:40:33.130 --> 00:40:35.449
stuff on teachers. But at some point, we also
00:40:35.449 --> 00:40:37.090
need to teach these kids to be adults and like
00:40:37.090 --> 00:40:38.869
how to manage it themselves. Because, you know,
00:40:38.869 --> 00:40:40.630
I've been in a dentist office or an elevator
00:40:40.630 --> 00:40:42.550
and I see, you know, we're all like, you know,
00:40:42.570 --> 00:40:44.550
like that. Or even people driving next to me
00:40:44.550 --> 00:40:47.050
freaks me out. But like, at what point do we
00:40:47.050 --> 00:40:49.460
teach that balance? And so. I mean, all of that
00:40:49.460 --> 00:40:50.900
to say, I think when you think about tech leadership,
00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:52.519
I think you have to be nimble, you have to be
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:54.760
adaptive, but you have to start seeing things
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:56.739
as opportunities, not problems, and then figuring
00:40:56.739 --> 00:40:59.380
out what can we grow and learn from these opportunities
00:40:59.380 --> 00:41:01.480
that come out of this, and not be afraid to have
00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:03.420
the hard conversations, because I think, man,
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:05.300
I sometimes smile when I'm getting, not when
00:41:05.300 --> 00:41:06.780
I'm getting yelled at. I mean, I have, I have
00:41:06.780 --> 00:41:08.300
smiled when I'm getting yelled at, and parents
00:41:08.300 --> 00:41:10.599
go, why are you smiling? And I was like, because
00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:13.579
we're having the conversation. And if this doesn't
00:41:13.579 --> 00:41:15.699
happen, we don't talk about it. Everybody goes
00:41:15.699 --> 00:41:17.380
to their little houses and they close their doors,
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:19.619
and we never learn from each other. And AI is
00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:21.239
now the new one. And it's the same thing. I had
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:23.420
a parent talk in New York a couple of months
00:41:23.420 --> 00:41:24.679
ago where they brought me in just to talk to
00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:26.880
parents. And we had about 50 parents show up,
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:28.420
and it was a cold, rainy night. I was like, no
00:41:28.420 --> 00:41:30.559
one's going to show. And they were interested.
00:41:31.139 --> 00:41:33.579
And it's almost the same fears that we saw with
00:41:33.579 --> 00:41:35.630
screen time. You know, what if the AI, what if
00:41:35.630 --> 00:41:37.289
it, you know, because there's stories of the
00:41:37.289 --> 00:41:40.369
one, the kid who asked it questions and it basically
00:41:40.369 --> 00:41:41.769
told him to kill himself. I mean, there's some
00:41:41.769 --> 00:41:44.050
scary stuff there. And that made the headlines.
00:41:44.210 --> 00:41:46.670
And so it's, you know, there's also the fact
00:41:46.670 --> 00:41:48.630
that he had access to a gun that, you know, probably
00:41:48.630 --> 00:41:49.909
he shouldn't have. I mean, there's all these
00:41:49.909 --> 00:41:51.429
other things you could talk about, but AI gets
00:41:51.429 --> 00:41:53.730
the blame in those cases, too. And don't be wrong.
00:41:53.849 --> 00:41:55.809
It's definitely not a therapist. But I think
00:41:55.809 --> 00:41:58.329
having. the hard, uncomfortable conversations
00:41:58.329 --> 00:42:00.909
is important. When I left that parent night,
00:42:01.730 --> 00:42:03.730
I had a line of them just talking to me about
00:42:03.730 --> 00:42:05.949
things and questions. They weren't necessarily
00:42:05.949 --> 00:42:07.769
scared. They were more excited than scared, but
00:42:07.769 --> 00:42:09.329
there's still a little bit of hesitancy and fear.
00:42:09.409 --> 00:42:10.769
And I say, there's nothing wrong with that, by
00:42:10.769 --> 00:42:13.409
the way. That's called judgment. I mean, we all
00:42:13.409 --> 00:42:15.650
have to have it. I, admittedly, even though I'm
00:42:15.650 --> 00:42:18.710
an enthusiast of AI, I also worry that we'll
00:42:18.710 --> 00:42:20.949
overuse it and the kids will underdevelop their
00:42:20.949 --> 00:42:23.829
foundational skills. I think it's on us as teachers,
00:42:23.929 --> 00:42:26.150
but also as parents to figure out where that
00:42:26.150 --> 00:42:27.750
balance is. I do it every night with my kids.
00:42:28.250 --> 00:42:30.849
They're my high school kids using it a lot. And
00:42:30.849 --> 00:42:32.150
I'm always kind of keeping an eye and saying,
00:42:32.150 --> 00:42:33.989
OK, how are you using it? She's like, well, it's
00:42:33.989 --> 00:42:35.610
asking me study questions because I don't understand
00:42:35.610 --> 00:42:38.269
the way the teacher taught me. This AP US history
00:42:38.269 --> 00:42:40.050
teacher taught me the stuff, but I don't really
00:42:40.050 --> 00:42:41.570
know it. So I'm asking it to ask me different
00:42:41.570 --> 00:42:42.750
questions and I'm trying to see if I'm getting
00:42:42.750 --> 00:42:44.809
them right. So she's using it to quiz herself.
00:42:44.809 --> 00:42:46.210
And I was like, that's great. It's like a tutor.
00:42:46.969 --> 00:42:49.750
But again, because I talk to her about it all
00:42:49.750 --> 00:42:52.329
the time. So. Uh, I don't know how many parents
00:42:52.329 --> 00:42:53.690
out in the community are doing that. And if you
00:42:53.690 --> 00:42:55.889
guys work with rural communities, it's even trickier,
00:42:55.889 --> 00:42:58.489
um, in some ways, cause I think they come sometimes
00:42:58.489 --> 00:42:59.610
think, well, this doesn't have anything to do
00:42:59.610 --> 00:43:02.409
with us. But I mean, every, I think it was the
00:43:02.409 --> 00:43:03.929
university of Florida that had every college,
00:43:04.130 --> 00:43:06.389
including the college of agriculture is now required
00:43:06.389 --> 00:43:09.329
to take an AI literacy course because of AI and
00:43:09.329 --> 00:43:10.949
machine learning. And we think about farming.
00:43:11.130 --> 00:43:14.090
I mean, crop rotations, data, there's all sorts
00:43:14.090 --> 00:43:15.789
of stuff that comes in there. I mean, drones
00:43:15.789 --> 00:43:17.969
that are seeding things now and robotic, uh,
00:43:17.969 --> 00:43:20.599
tractors. I mean, it's. there's still a lot of
00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:21.940
futuristic stuff that's happening with it. So
00:43:21.940 --> 00:43:25.199
it touches every field. So I think it's just
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:26.559
finding that connection with the parents is a
00:43:26.559 --> 00:43:28.480
big part of it too. So I kind of went off, way
00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:31.860
off. Sorry to, your question there, went down
00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:34.440
a deeper rabbit hole. But yeah, I think keeping
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:37.000
an open mind, being nimble, and then again, seeing
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:41.380
problems as opportunities. So Garo, I've at least
00:43:41.380 --> 00:43:44.460
had the opportunity, I know, to listen to you
00:43:44.460 --> 00:43:47.780
and to watch you present. at professional development
00:43:47.780 --> 00:43:50.920
conferences, at least twice that I can remember,
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:55.440
both in Minnesota. Yeah. And Minnesota used to
00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:59.079
have this TIEs conference. Oh, I love TIEs. And
00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:01.440
I remember back in the days with like Mary Masachomer.
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:08.179
Oh, recipe Mary. Love Mary. Yeah. But I gotta
00:44:08.179 --> 00:44:11.300
say one of the things that is still memorable
00:44:11.300 --> 00:44:13.039
to me that you talk about your first graders
00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:15.780
that will reach out to you years later and and
00:44:15.780 --> 00:44:21.500
mentioned something So I have to share. Oh this
00:44:21.500 --> 00:44:27.159
So if you're not watching I've got an old little
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:30.900
Twitter gift. It's the fried bacon it we're doing
00:44:30.900 --> 00:44:35.130
the bacon ties conference and If you can look
00:44:35.130 --> 00:44:37.449
on that far right hand side of where all the
00:44:37.449 --> 00:44:40.250
people are, I see Carl hiding in the back with
00:44:40.250 --> 00:44:45.869
this. This giant body wobbling back and forth
00:44:45.869 --> 00:44:48.050
is not a great sight. So I hid behind some people.
00:44:48.389 --> 00:44:52.050
That is awesome. I totally, oh my God. I don't
00:44:52.050 --> 00:44:54.190
know if you remember that. Oh, of course I do.
00:44:54.489 --> 00:44:56.289
I remember the rest of the conference we walked
00:44:56.289 --> 00:45:00.469
around. And then I remember you doing, and actually
00:45:00.469 --> 00:45:03.239
that's me in that hooded sweatshirt. Doing the
00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:07.019
bacon you did you did like you know your karaoke
00:45:07.019 --> 00:45:11.920
or music trivia? Yeah, yeah You know, which is
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:14.619
just absolutely fantastic. We had such a blast
00:45:14.619 --> 00:45:17.760
doing all of that So I just I just wanted to
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:20.440
throw that out there back in time It's funny
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:22.000
the trivia one you bring that up because this
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:23.960
is a fun thing too that I've started doing with
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:26.460
us So I still do trivia sometimes but what I've
00:45:26.460 --> 00:45:29.380
started to do now is in my AI workshops is I
00:45:29.380 --> 00:45:32.460
say hey Everybody, everybody in your classroom,
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:34.079
every student in your classroom, every adult
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:36.539
in this room has an expertise at something. Meaning
00:45:36.539 --> 00:45:39.219
if you walked into a bar or Jeopardy or whatever
00:45:39.219 --> 00:45:41.179
and you saw a category and you're like, oh my
00:45:41.179 --> 00:45:43.619
God, I'm going to crush this category. Whatever
00:45:43.619 --> 00:45:45.320
it is, maybe it's Seinfeld, maybe it's how to
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:48.079
make sourdough, maybe it's NBA sports teams or
00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:50.659
something. Everybody's got a one topic. And so
00:45:50.659 --> 00:45:52.579
the hardest, this is how you introduce the human
00:45:52.579 --> 00:45:54.420
and the AI element. So I say everybody in the
00:45:54.420 --> 00:45:56.400
room, come up with your one topic. Now, sometimes
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:58.670
this takes like, a couple of minutes. People
00:45:58.670 --> 00:46:00.469
are like, I don't know. Have a discussion with
00:46:00.469 --> 00:46:01.750
someone next to you what your topic is. And so
00:46:01.750 --> 00:46:03.230
you start talking to someone next to your partner.
00:46:03.610 --> 00:46:04.750
Now what I want you to do is both of you take
00:46:04.750 --> 00:46:06.789
out your device, your phones, whatever. Each
00:46:06.789 --> 00:46:08.289
of you are going to pull up your AI tool of choice.
00:46:08.409 --> 00:46:10.250
I don't care what it is, chat, GPT, Gemini, Claude,
00:46:10.329 --> 00:46:12.889
whatever, it's co -pilot. Ask it to write five
00:46:12.889 --> 00:46:14.710
trivia questions, multiple choice answers based
00:46:14.710 --> 00:46:16.070
on your partner's topic. And then you're going
00:46:16.070 --> 00:46:18.690
to quiz them and see how well they really are
00:46:18.690 --> 00:46:20.550
an expert in their topic. And then they're going
00:46:20.550 --> 00:46:22.489
to get you back, right? And as a result of it,
00:46:22.510 --> 00:46:23.929
it's a couple of things. It's fun. What usually
00:46:23.929 --> 00:46:25.489
ends up happening is there's always a lot of
00:46:25.489 --> 00:46:27.710
laughter and people are like, and people want
00:46:27.710 --> 00:46:29.570
to beat AI, right? They're like, I want to crush
00:46:29.570 --> 00:46:32.130
whatever AI comes up with. Sometimes AI gets
00:46:32.130 --> 00:46:34.269
things wrong, which is also interesting. We always
00:46:34.269 --> 00:46:36.750
discuss that about 20 % of the time. I have someone
00:46:36.750 --> 00:46:38.170
to raise a hand and go, yeah, it actually asked
00:46:38.170 --> 00:46:40.230
this question the wrong way. Or it didn't know
00:46:40.230 --> 00:46:41.769
this information as well as I know it. And I'm
00:46:41.769 --> 00:46:43.530
like, think about that for a minute. You're more
00:46:43.530 --> 00:46:45.949
an expert than AI is on that topic. And then
00:46:45.949 --> 00:46:48.070
also it shows, I guess, students especially,
00:46:48.130 --> 00:46:49.389
it shows them that it's not always accurate.
00:46:49.829 --> 00:46:51.409
But it always is a quick way to make connections.
00:46:51.630 --> 00:46:53.090
So again, using trivia and kind of expanding
00:46:53.090 --> 00:46:55.909
the AI element of it. I call it my own personal
00:46:55.909 --> 00:46:58.130
trivia is the name of the game. But it's a fun
00:46:58.130 --> 00:47:00.429
one to do because, again, it's very light. It's
00:47:00.429 --> 00:47:02.030
a good introductory one, too, for teachers that
00:47:02.030 --> 00:47:04.789
are a little hesitant. But again, we all are
00:47:04.789 --> 00:47:06.389
experts at something and your students are too.
00:47:06.769 --> 00:47:09.909
Probably Roblox or probably MrBeast, the YouTube
00:47:09.909 --> 00:47:12.349
guy or whatever. But still, they're expert at
00:47:12.349 --> 00:47:14.050
something much like those first graders way back
00:47:14.050 --> 00:47:17.510
in 2006 when we did that inquiry based challenge.
00:47:17.829 --> 00:47:20.030
But yeah, that's a fun. Anyway, thanks for bringing
00:47:20.030 --> 00:47:23.010
up the bacon. I honestly have not done the bacon
00:47:23.010 --> 00:47:26.900
in. In years, uh, I don't, did we do that was
00:47:26.900 --> 00:47:30.619
back in 2019. That was the year I probably had
00:47:30.619 --> 00:47:33.300
to really dig back deep into my Twitter feed
00:47:33.300 --> 00:47:35.679
to find that. So it could have for you for still
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:37.340
having a Twitter feed, by the way, cause I have
00:47:37.340 --> 00:47:39.480
mine, but it's like, I post stuff on there and
00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:41.940
it's like, is anybody still on anybody? Is this
00:47:41.940 --> 00:47:45.400
thing still on? I don't know. Oh yeah. It's funny.
00:47:45.539 --> 00:47:47.099
Funny how things change over time with that.
00:47:47.099 --> 00:47:48.719
But yeah, that, that was a great, then it was
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:50.420
impact edu. That might've been the year was the
00:47:50.420 --> 00:47:53.130
impact edu, right? Yeah, it could have been right
00:47:53.130 --> 00:47:55.130
in that time where it was transitioning Yeah
00:47:55.130 --> 00:47:57.690
from one to the other and then it just did it
00:47:57.690 --> 00:47:59.590
died out They don't do it. So the state doesn't
00:47:59.590 --> 00:48:01.710
do a conference anymore. No, we don't have a
00:48:01.710 --> 00:48:03.849
statewide conference in Minnesota anymore It's
00:48:03.849 --> 00:48:09.289
it's unfortunate. I don't know but SW right David
00:48:09.289 --> 00:48:11.309
your don't you guys host something to every year
00:48:11.309 --> 00:48:14.489
SWWC? I feel like I've seen yeah. Yep. So now
00:48:14.489 --> 00:48:18.309
we do We we actually both do so like ECMEC has
00:48:18.309 --> 00:48:21.989
one that they do in the summertime In August
00:48:21.989 --> 00:48:24.710
and then we have IT squared. It's called now.
00:48:24.710 --> 00:48:27.530
It's been I think this is our 20th year now guys
00:48:27.900 --> 00:48:30.239
Yeah. So I miss putting on events. I mean, we
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:32.000
used to do iPad Palooza here in Austin and then
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:34.019
we had iPad Palooza, Minnesota, which was actually
00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:37.139
the first spinoff. Um, and, and just hosting
00:48:37.139 --> 00:48:39.099
events. And I mean, it's, it's exhausting, but
00:48:39.099 --> 00:48:41.599
also rewarding. I talked to, uh, Jennifer Womble
00:48:41.599 --> 00:48:43.420
at FETC every year. And I'm always like, I don't
00:48:43.420 --> 00:48:45.460
know how she does it, but she stays out late.
00:48:45.619 --> 00:48:47.199
And then the next morning she's up on the keynote
00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:48.599
stays introducing the keynote speaker. And I'm
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:51.059
like, you must have some sort of magical elixir.
00:48:51.079 --> 00:48:53.500
Cause I'm like, I just crossed a big five Oh.
00:48:53.539 --> 00:48:55.940
So like my, my recovery time ain't what it used
00:48:55.940 --> 00:48:59.019
to be. Let's just say that. All right, so Carl,
00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:01.639
we do this always with our guests at the end
00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:05.119
of our show, and we like to do a little lightning
00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:08.179
round section. And so you can give whatever response
00:49:08.179 --> 00:49:09.820
you want. So it could be real quick, one word,
00:49:09.880 --> 00:49:12.039
or it could be if you want to dive in a little
00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:15.400
further, you can. So the first question is going
00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:20.329
to be, what PD actually changes practice? This
00:49:20.329 --> 00:49:21.929
will be aligned with what I talked about with
00:49:21.929 --> 00:49:24.130
students, which is voice and choice. And I think
00:49:24.130 --> 00:49:26.090
we don't do this enough in PD. Let the teachers
00:49:26.090 --> 00:49:27.989
actually have some decision, make it flexible,
00:49:28.050 --> 00:49:29.929
make it adaptable. So some teachers might want
00:49:29.929 --> 00:49:31.710
direct instruction. Some might want to work on
00:49:31.710 --> 00:49:33.710
a little something by themselves. So I guess
00:49:33.710 --> 00:49:35.690
giving them those choices I think is important
00:49:35.690 --> 00:49:37.510
too. And I feel like whenever I've done that,
00:49:37.670 --> 00:49:38.889
those have always been the ones that have been
00:49:38.889 --> 00:49:42.889
my highest rated for my staff, for PD. Yeah,
00:49:43.150 --> 00:49:47.659
time to try. Sorry, David. Time to try. Yeah,
00:49:48.340 --> 00:49:51.739
time to try. Yeah, they yes. Yeah, I feel like
00:49:51.739 --> 00:49:53.420
we are. Yeah, I know. And it's already because
00:49:53.420 --> 00:49:55.519
I like to talk. Obviously you guys have experienced
00:49:55.519 --> 00:49:58.239
that today. But so for me, it's like when I talk
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:00.780
less, they do more. It's it's good. They kind
00:50:00.780 --> 00:50:02.219
of sometimes teachers hesitate. They're like,
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:04.139
oh, just tell me what to do. You know, I don't
00:50:04.139 --> 00:50:05.840
want to sit and I want to sit back here and cut
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:07.519
my little letters out and do my grade. But no,
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:09.579
you're going to work today. Sorry. But then they
00:50:09.579 --> 00:50:12.219
end up enjoying it. What do you think is one
00:50:12.219 --> 00:50:15.840
tech skill teachers need more of going forward?
00:50:18.130 --> 00:50:21.070
I think it's weird. I think tech skill, and I
00:50:21.070 --> 00:50:23.250
immediately think of problem solving and adaptability,
00:50:23.309 --> 00:50:25.650
which aren't really tech skills. But I think
00:50:25.650 --> 00:50:28.949
with all technology, you have to have those skills.
00:50:29.610 --> 00:50:31.389
So in terms of whether it be AI, whether it be
00:50:31.389 --> 00:50:34.550
learning a new device, whatever it is, I would
00:50:34.550 --> 00:50:38.780
say being able to find answers on your own. or
00:50:38.780 --> 00:50:40.699
search for those answers. And by the way, Google
00:50:40.699 --> 00:50:43.019
is not necessarily my number one place anymore.
00:50:43.179 --> 00:50:45.019
I use ChatGBT to help me with a lot of stuff,
00:50:45.179 --> 00:50:46.900
you know? Hey, help me figure out how to align
00:50:46.900 --> 00:50:48.400
these spreadsheets the way I want them to be
00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:51.099
and give me some coaching on this. And so, yeah,
00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:52.900
I would say, you know, being able to find your
00:50:52.900 --> 00:50:57.380
own answers. What's one education trend that
00:50:57.380 --> 00:51:01.500
you hope disappears quietly? It won't be so quiet,
00:51:01.500 --> 00:51:03.159
but we talked about it earlier. I think we should
00:51:03.159 --> 00:51:06.420
get rid of the age based grade levels. I mean,
00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:08.260
grades I think also probably need to go away
00:51:08.260 --> 00:51:10.300
and testing. Those are the easy ones. But for
00:51:10.300 --> 00:51:12.900
me, God, it would be great to have some sort
00:51:12.900 --> 00:51:15.940
of amalgamation of multiple grades. There's some
00:51:15.940 --> 00:51:17.500
schools that have tried it and like private schools
00:51:17.500 --> 00:51:19.579
and charter schools. But yeah, I get rid of get
00:51:19.579 --> 00:51:21.659
rid of just like everybody's six years old, so
00:51:21.659 --> 00:51:23.280
everybody has to go to first grade. No, let's
00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:25.960
change that up. What's something you've changed
00:51:25.960 --> 00:51:28.880
your mind about over, say, like the last five
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:37.599
years or so? Well, I have teenagers now So five
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:39.519
years ago I didn't for now. I had three of them.
00:51:39.739 --> 00:51:43.119
They didn't just show up. So I would say One
00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:46.280
thing I think I probably didn't Understand enough
00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:48.420
was the complexity of a teenage mind with the
00:51:48.420 --> 00:51:50.539
hormones that are built into it. And so having
00:51:50.539 --> 00:51:53.159
some more patience for that That's something
00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:55.880
I would say tell my former self. I've learned
00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:57.869
it but it's taken me a lot of time. Yeah And
00:51:57.869 --> 00:51:59.230
I think teachers that work with middle school
00:51:59.230 --> 00:52:00.769
kids and high school kids, I always applaud them.
00:52:00.909 --> 00:52:03.329
It's just incredible, incredible to be able to
00:52:03.329 --> 00:52:05.050
do that work. But yeah, have respect for them.
00:52:05.090 --> 00:52:06.409
I think that's the big thing for those kids.
00:52:06.530 --> 00:52:08.190
They're not adults yet, but treat them like a
00:52:08.190 --> 00:52:10.150
little bit like adults and they'll be awesome.
00:52:12.090 --> 00:52:14.750
If you had to give a TED talk on something that
00:52:14.750 --> 00:52:18.329
was not education or tech, what would you choose?
00:52:19.789 --> 00:52:23.929
I would say how to host a really good party.
00:52:25.309 --> 00:52:28.710
I'm a big fan. I work with lots of people in
00:52:28.710 --> 00:52:31.130
our area here. We do a Super Bowl party that's
00:52:31.130 --> 00:52:32.710
like got two or three hundred people in it. I
00:52:32.710 --> 00:52:35.030
host a crawfish boil every year that brings and
00:52:35.030 --> 00:52:37.250
how those the part of the Ted talk would be not
00:52:37.250 --> 00:52:39.369
just about the party, but how it brings the community
00:52:39.369 --> 00:52:42.469
together. everybody brings in a resource, everyone
00:52:42.469 --> 00:52:44.469
brings in a side dish, everybody brings in part
00:52:44.469 --> 00:52:46.489
of their culture and celebrates all of that.
00:52:46.530 --> 00:52:48.190
And so that's kind of the underlying part of
00:52:48.190 --> 00:52:49.929
that. But yeah, definitely I'm a big believer
00:52:49.929 --> 00:52:52.269
in creating this party fun experience and atmosphere,
00:52:52.469 --> 00:52:54.349
which is, which some of my keynotes turn in to
00:52:54.349 --> 00:52:56.829
be, or just doing the bacon all the time. Just
00:52:56.829 --> 00:53:01.670
doing the bacon. Yeah, let's go. What if AI disappeared
00:53:01.670 --> 00:53:03.610
tomorrow? What do you think we should have learned
00:53:03.610 --> 00:53:08.170
from that moment? I think for me, it would be,
00:53:08.170 --> 00:53:12.489
you know, It wasn't really about the AI, it turned
00:53:12.489 --> 00:53:14.750
out. It turned out it was always about us. We
00:53:14.750 --> 00:53:16.070
were the ones that created it. We were the ones
00:53:16.070 --> 00:53:17.610
that put the biases into it. And we're the ones
00:53:17.610 --> 00:53:19.530
that get what we want out of it. And so looking
00:53:19.530 --> 00:53:22.170
at it, AI is very much a reflection of ourselves.
00:53:22.409 --> 00:53:24.369
And so looking at it, if it went away and saying,
00:53:24.510 --> 00:53:26.289
what did we learn about ourselves from that?
00:53:26.789 --> 00:53:28.769
What were our goods and what were our bads that
00:53:28.769 --> 00:53:32.510
we got out of it? I think that would be it. What
00:53:32.510 --> 00:53:35.230
piece of old school tech still deserves respect?
00:53:37.550 --> 00:53:39.619
So many ways I could go with this. I'm going
00:53:39.619 --> 00:53:42.480
to say this one's not really, I mean, I did use
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:44.719
this in a classroom, but not necessarily for
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:48.719
EdTech, but a boombox. I miss the good boombox.
00:53:48.860 --> 00:53:50.699
You remember the big, they had the lights and
00:53:50.699 --> 00:53:52.360
the big, you put it on your shoulder and you
00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:56.280
had the tape deck. Yes. Actually, I I'm tempted
00:53:56.280 --> 00:53:57.920
to buy one recently I've been shopping for one
00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:59.760
because I have some tapes that I found and I
00:53:59.760 --> 00:54:01.739
want to show my kids how to use it But I'm afraid
00:54:01.739 --> 00:54:04.739
the tapes won't work But yeah, that's I guess
00:54:04.739 --> 00:54:06.420
that's old -school tech not oh super old -school
00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:08.559
not like a pencil But although the pencil was
00:54:08.559 --> 00:54:10.300
handy when your tape got messed up kids. Let
00:54:10.300 --> 00:54:13.599
me just tell you that's how yes They rewind it
00:54:13.820 --> 00:54:16.000
Well, we were we are kind of in this space now
00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:18.639
where what's old is new again. So yeah, it's
00:54:18.639 --> 00:54:20.360
coming back now. It's now it's Bluetooth enabled
00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:23.039
and it's got a CD, but I saw the one I'll probably
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:27.559
buy it and take my money. So I know how important
00:54:27.559 --> 00:54:31.900
music is to to what you do, and I know and as
00:54:31.900 --> 00:54:34.340
obviously being a part of some of those sessions
00:54:34.340 --> 00:54:37.880
like how it's really using to liven up the audience,
00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:40.980
you know, so. What are your current crowd pleasers
00:54:40.980 --> 00:54:43.440
when it comes to, like, what songs are you playing
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:46.920
now for that experience? Yeah, well, Cary Aoki
00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:49.619
has grown big. I've actually got a keynote that's
00:54:49.619 --> 00:54:52.139
got probably 100 of them that I've created. And
00:54:52.139 --> 00:54:54.360
what I do is I'll pick a few based on now the
00:54:54.360 --> 00:54:56.480
location. So like if I know I'm in New York,
00:54:56.940 --> 00:54:59.239
it was interesting. I showed like... the New
00:54:59.239 --> 00:55:00.800
York buildings and I said what song do you think
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:02.639
this is and I was like and everybody you know
00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:04.500
there's like a thousand songs about New York
00:55:04.500 --> 00:55:06.699
but what I've been doing is you guys will appreciate
00:55:06.699 --> 00:55:08.719
this because it comes from he comes from Minnesota
00:55:08.719 --> 00:55:11.980
is I'll show uh I'll start playing a song and
00:55:11.980 --> 00:55:14.199
it's purple rain I'll start playing the song
00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:16.519
and I'll say just just In this quick poll, just
00:55:16.519 --> 00:55:18.179
tell me what imagery pops into your mind when
00:55:18.179 --> 00:55:20.019
you hear this note. You know, it's the beginning
00:55:20.019 --> 00:55:22.519
of that guitar is real slow. And some people
00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:23.940
in the audience are too young to really know
00:55:23.940 --> 00:55:25.179
it. So they'll be like, I don't know. It's like
00:55:25.179 --> 00:55:27.280
a slow song. It's sad. Whatever other people
00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:29.920
like purple rain prints. And so what I do is
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:31.480
I have them generate kind of a word cloud of
00:55:31.480 --> 00:55:33.019
what their words and emotions are around the
00:55:33.019 --> 00:55:34.380
song and say, OK, now let's take those words
00:55:34.380 --> 00:55:36.340
and create images from it. And so then we build
00:55:36.340 --> 00:55:38.059
out the images. If I just put in purple rain,
00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:39.820
let's see what happens. And then it just shows
00:55:39.820 --> 00:55:42.039
these kind of rainy landscapes with purplish.
00:55:42.159 --> 00:55:43.760
But what if we want we really want print? So
00:55:43.760 --> 00:55:46.469
let's say we want print. And then it's usually
00:55:46.469 --> 00:55:52.679
a guy with a crown on his head Prince capital
00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:54.860
P, some of that looks like the performer Prince
00:55:54.860 --> 00:55:57.539
capital P playing a guitar in the in the rain,
00:55:57.539 --> 00:55:59.659
you know, at Super Bowl at a halftime show, you
00:55:59.659 --> 00:56:01.800
know, and then it builds the image like, but
00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:03.639
see how we went from just like that one note
00:56:03.639 --> 00:56:06.340
of that one song, we all created a collaborative
00:56:06.340 --> 00:56:08.159
conversation about what the words were. And then
00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:10.079
we created images as a result of it. I go again,
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:11.800
that was all crowdsourced just from us in this
00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:14.420
room. But like, so yeah, to me, that's been my
00:56:14.420 --> 00:56:16.780
step up lately is Prince's Purple Rain. And then
00:56:16.780 --> 00:56:18.880
of course, it was in the ending of Stranger Things,
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:21.340
not to spoil it, but there was a moment in that.
00:56:21.260 --> 00:56:23.039
that was pretty iconic. I'm like, oh, of course
00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:24.119
you're going to use France and now I'm going
00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:26.840
to cry. Oh, so good. Still the best, by the way,
00:56:26.920 --> 00:56:28.760
best Super Bowl halftime performance of all time.
00:56:29.079 --> 00:56:30.380
I don't know. I don't know how we made it rain,
00:56:30.380 --> 00:56:35.099
but it rained. Yeah. So Carl, you know, we can't
00:56:35.099 --> 00:56:37.239
tell you how thankful we are to have you on the
00:56:37.239 --> 00:56:39.840
show here, but before we let our guests go, you
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:42.159
know, give you the floor. What do you have? Do
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:43.840
you have things that are coming up that you would
00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:47.420
like to promote or contact information you would
00:56:47.420 --> 00:56:51.630
like us to tag in the descriptions that we can
00:56:51.630 --> 00:56:53.769
add to help promote the things that you've got
00:56:53.769 --> 00:56:57.010
going. Yeah, absolutely. KarlHooker .com is my
00:56:57.010 --> 00:56:59.610
website. I just did some rebranding on it this
00:56:59.610 --> 00:57:03.170
last month. Most of my stuff is on there. I do
00:57:03.170 --> 00:57:04.869
a lot of work with future -ready schools. Actually,
00:57:04.949 --> 00:57:06.409
future -ready schools has a couple of things
00:57:06.409 --> 00:57:08.349
coming up, including something for rural districts.
00:57:08.570 --> 00:57:11.210
They just announced that they got a grant for
00:57:11.210 --> 00:57:13.809
rural school districts to work on AI leadership
00:57:13.809 --> 00:57:16.050
readiness. Let me see if I can find the link
00:57:16.050 --> 00:57:18.059
for that. Adam has been texting me some stuff
00:57:18.059 --> 00:57:19.500
this morning. So if he's got it, I'll send it
00:57:19.500 --> 00:57:21.800
to you guys. But we're also doing our leadership
00:57:21.800 --> 00:57:23.500
boot camp, which is just more of a national thing.
00:57:23.500 --> 00:57:25.500
It's a virtual one that's coming up. We're working
00:57:25.500 --> 00:57:26.920
on getting funding for that. Right now, you have
00:57:26.920 --> 00:57:29.519
to pay to get in with your team. But last year,
00:57:29.519 --> 00:57:31.940
we were able to get a grant funded. So we're
00:57:31.940 --> 00:57:33.480
trying to get all this. We want to make it as
00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:34.719
free as possible for schools because we know
00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:37.019
they don't have the funding for it as well. So
00:57:37.019 --> 00:57:39.079
keep an eye out for those things. And the Undisrupted
00:57:39.079 --> 00:57:41.840
podcast with me and Adam is out there. I just
00:57:41.840 --> 00:57:43.599
did the second edition of Learning Evolution,
00:57:43.679 --> 00:57:45.840
which is my AI book, because once you write an
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:47.579
AI book, Guess what? It becomes obsolete the
00:57:47.579 --> 00:57:50.719
second you print it. So I've updated it three
00:57:50.719 --> 00:57:53.059
times. And this last one was I had 52 extra pages
00:57:53.059 --> 00:57:56.059
of content. So Amazon said you have to make it
00:57:56.059 --> 00:57:58.739
a new edition. So it's my second edition of that.
00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:01.699
Yeah. And just kind of traveling around, speaking,
00:58:01.860 --> 00:58:03.340
hopefully get up to Minnesota one of these days
00:58:03.340 --> 00:58:05.340
again, because I love it up there. Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:05.340 --> 00:58:07.260
Well, we'd be excited to have you back up in
00:58:07.260 --> 00:58:10.619
this this neck of the woods here. So thank you
00:58:10.619 --> 00:58:12.500
guys so much for having me on. Yeah. Thanks,
00:58:12.639 --> 00:58:15.780
bro. Thanks for listening to integrate this.
00:58:16.059 --> 00:58:18.420
Want to take your learning further? Head over
00:58:18.420 --> 00:58:21.159
to our YouTube channel for quick tutorials, deep
00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:24.159
dives, and more edtech tips you can use right
00:58:24.159 --> 00:58:27.639
away. Don't forget to subscribe and catch new
00:58:27.639 --> 00:58:31.500
podcast episodes every Thursday on Apple, Spotify,
00:58:32.059 --> 00:58:34.780
or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next
00:58:34.780 --> 00:58:38.639
time, keep exploring, keep innovating, and keep
00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:39.539
integrating this.