Inspired by 'Super-Engineer' - Iron Man

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Welcome to Insights for Manufacturing, the podcast that supports the UK manufacturing
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sector. Hosted by Jeff Beacham, the manufacturer's recruiter. Hello and welcome to Insights4Manufacturing
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I'm delighted today to welcome my special guest, Solomon McKiernan, who is
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an Electronic Engineering Degree Apprentice at Leonardo. Welcome to the show, Solomon.
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Pleased to have you on. Thank you. Thank you very much, Jeff. Yeah, it's a surprise to
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be invited, but yeah, glad to be on here to talk about apprenticeships. You're very
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welcome. And as we were saying off-air just a few moments ago, this is a bit of a first
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for Insights4Mfg in that, you're the first sort of student or
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degree apprentice or apprentice of any description that's come on the show. We normally have
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sort of associations and senior leaders on, but I thought it would be a really good idea
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to get a bit of insight from somebody who's been through that apprenticeship and degree
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apprenticeship journey within UK manufacturing. So yeah, I'm really delighted to invite you
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on and looking forward to the discussion. Just before we get into the sort of questions.
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Now, I know you've been doing a lot of studying through the apprenticeship and the degree.
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We'll come on to that in just a second, but you've also had a day job to hold down with
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Leonardo who, for anybody that doesn't know, Leonardo is a global security company, realizing
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technology for a safer future. In the UK, they focus on electronics, helicopters and
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cyber and security businesses and they employ eight and a half thousand people across eight
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sites with over 500 people on early careers training programs. So, wow, you're obviously
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in the right place in terms of an employer supporting you. So what motivated you in the
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first place to pursue a career in engineering and manufacturing?
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Well, it's going to sound maybe a little bit silly, but when I was younger and even now
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really to an extent, I always really liked superheroes. One of my favourites was Iron Man.
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If you've seen any of those Iron Man movies, you know he's essentially like a super-engineer
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and seeing him actually go through and design everything and build everything himself was
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probably like my first real taste of seeing like technology and what you can do with it.
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From then on, it was, you know, DT lessons in school and everything like that. But yeah,
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I'd have to probably credit it to seeing those when I was younger and enjoying those.
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That is amazing. And yes, I have seen those films with Robert Downey Jr. I thought they
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were absolutely brilliant. But I suppose the fact that you were inspired by that whole
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concept of super engineering, you know, just the fact that you've mentioned that I'm sat
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here thinking there must be hundreds or thousands of other people in a similar situation that
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have seen a film like that and thought, oh crikey, wouldn't it be amazing if, you know,
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how can I get involved in that type of thing? So thanks for sharing that. That's an interesting
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concept and I'm sure something that will be coming more to the fore, you know, over the
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coming years with all of these sorts of movies. So can you describe your experience as an
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apprentice? I know you've done the degree part of that as well, but from a sort of hands-on
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apprenticeship perspective, what have your experiences been like?
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Yeah, so from a, well I'll start with like the kind of structure of, you know, how many
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days I'm going in to study and how many days at work. So like a normal week for me would
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be four days in at work, maybe like seven, eight hour days and then one day at university
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and that'll be a full, sometimes like nine to six of pretty much back to back delivery.
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And then where I can fit around that, the coursework, I will. The work's quite lenient,
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Leonardo has given me some time here and there. So they'll give me like an afternoon off if
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I need an exam or those type of things. So they've been very supportive throughout the
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whole thing, but yeah, it's really, especially throughout the year. So I've been doing it
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for four years. So towards this like third and fourth year now that I've been doing it,
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the four days a week has just kind of melded into like a normal engineering role, it seems
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like. But when I was first unloaded, it's a lot of like shadowing, learning basic stuff,
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maybe doing tasks that aren't actually going to go towards a real product. And now I'm
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working all the time on things that are, you know, a customer wants or a development project.
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And I just finished up with the degree side of things actually as well. So now I'm in
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five days a week. Yeah. I'd say probably like for my split of things, I spend about maybe
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half my time in the lab, maybe a little bit less now and then half my time at a desk.
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And in earlier years would go through these different rotations. So like mechanical, some
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people do manufacturing, software, all these different departments. So you might end up
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spending like 100% of your time in manufacturing, say building an antenna or whatever you're
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doing. And then another placement could have you entirely, you know, coding and software.
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But yeah, now I've landed and ended up in electronics and electronic hardware. So that's
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where I'm at at the moment. Fascinating. And how did you come to that decision to sort
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of embark on a sort of apprenticeship? You know, because some people will go into businesses
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and just start training, you know, on the job. Whereas other people, you know, like
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to formalize their learning, whether that's an apprenticeship or other sort of qualifications.
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Was this something that was sort of suggested to you by the business or how did it all get
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started for you? Yeah. It was actually one of my physics teachers
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in school suggested them and then my DT teacher as well suggested them. So I know my DT teacher
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had done one himself. I believe it was actually with the RAF. So I did a lot of, I really
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enjoyed the subjects, you know, actually getting to design and then make something, you know,
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it was only a little thing on a laser cutter at the time, but it was cool to actually get
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something tangible, you know, from your work when so many other subjects are just writing
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something down and you never see anything, you know, come from it. So that was really
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cool and something that drew me in. So once I'd heard about them, luckily my parents
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were all quite supportive of it. So my mom works in education and she was, you know,
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able to tell me a bit and help me fill out some forms and go on the government website
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and show me whereabouts to go. I wouldn't say there was a massive push at my school
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in particular. In fact, to my knowledge, I was the only one in the year group who did
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an apprenticeship. So I did my GCSEs. Yeah. And then I left at 16. I know some people
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later down the line did apprenticeships, but yeah, it's my knowledge. I was the only one
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who left after my GCSEs and went straight into industry, worked somewhere for two years
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on a, like a, I think they called it an advanced level of apprenticeship. So level three. And
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then after that, when I was 18, I moved over to Leonardo and I started their four year
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program, which has now gone down to three years actually in degree apprenticeships.
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And I was the first ever intake at Leonardo in England to go through this new, newish,
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you know, relatively new degree apprenticeship scheme.
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Well, good for you. Blazing a trail.
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Yeah. Yeah. I would really recommend like a lot of the, a lot of the people I speak
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to, young people don't even know about, especially degree apprenticeships because they're still
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new in the grand scheme of things. Yeah. It's good to get to see things like this, you know,
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where you can actually have a voice and get to tell people about the good opportunity.
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Absolutely. And, you know, I'm not overly surprised that you were the only, you know,
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person in your, in your group that, that, you know, did an apprenticeship. There's a
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lot of work to be done, isn't there? You know, in terms of that education piece for, for
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school kids, for parents, you know, I think manufacturing and engineering, as a lot of
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people have said quite recently, it's still got a bit of a, an outdated sort of stigma
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or, you know, when you ask people, you know, what's manufacturing or engineering, unless
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they're in it themselves, you know, they generally say, well, I was working in a dirty factory.
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Whereas, you know, a lot of factories these days are so high tech, it's, it's, you know,
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just buzzing with automation and, and, you know, software technologies, just moving ahead
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at light speed, you know, it's really exciting. So getting some insights from you today, really,
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I mean, I love hearing about this sort of thing, but this was the whole idea of this
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podcast was to, you know, to get some detail about what it's like from somebody who's been
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there and done it. So, so, but well done, well done for you. You know, you've jumped
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in at a, you know, an early age straight out of, straight out of school after GCSEs and
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into industry and look how far you've come already. Wow. What a, what a great platform
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to, to, to propel yourself forward for even more.
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Yeah. Yeah. I'll just add onto that comment about the, the dirty factories. In fact, it
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must be across the whole industry, but like a lot of our rooms are what we call like an
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ISO clean room. Yes. So, you know, they've got their particle count and humidity and
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temperature and everything. So when people have this image of like getting grimy and
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stuff, that that's probably the cleanest room you're ever going to walk into, you know,
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compared to just walking around at home. So, yeah, yeah. And sort of temperature controlled
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and things like that in parts. So a million miles away from, from working in a foundry
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or something like that, which is yeah, especially this time of year, it's not going to be, not
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going to be great. Okay. So in terms of a hands-on experience then, so you've, you've
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sort of done this apprenticeship, you've done the degree. How do you think the hands-on
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element of, of an apprenticeship has sort of supported the sort of academic challenges
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that you, that you would have gone through to, to get your degree? Let's just add in
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there, it wasn't just a degree, was it? It was a first-class honours bachelor's degree
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in electronic and electrical engineering. So not the easiest of subjects anyway. It's
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quite a tough arena. So you've done really well. How's the hands-on experience sort of
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helped you with, with the, with the academic side of things?
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I would say it makes, it was probably like the number one thing I'd recommend anyone
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who's looking to get into electronics is to just do something practical and like a, like
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a hobbyist nature. So you can build plenty of boards out there, you know, not affiliated
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to any of them, but something like a Arduino or like a Raspberry Pi. You can buy these
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pieces of kit and then actually just start testing things out, you know, getting maybe
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an LED to blink or something simple like that. And actually seeing the theory tie up with
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something in reality, just it makes a world of difference. So even at those like, yeah,
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just a basic level of seeing like, say you do a calculation, something like Ohm's law,
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let's say something basic and you want to see how, you know, changing the resistance
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is going to change the current of a circuit. Actually doing that yourself is just going
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to stick so much better in your head if you're swapping out resistors and doing that manually.
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And then all the way up to, I'll tell you especially even more in like my final years.
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So there's a technique called like Fourier analysis, which is where you take a signal
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and you break it down into its different frequency components. And it seems like just a mathematical
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jumble of nonsense really on a piece of paper when you're working throughout uni. But then
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at the workplace we would have these big signal analyzers and you'd actually be able to get
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a probe and like touch it on a circuit and then it would show you all these different
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frequency components like graphically. And just seeing things like that, you know, all
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the way from Ohm's law up to that, having something you could test or something you
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could tweak in reality just really makes it stick in and actually understand what different
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things are going to change. And what's realistic, a lot of the time it's easier to get tied
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up in theory of, you know, let's say we have this, yeah, we can chuck in this value, this
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works in the formula. And then, you know, you've realized, Oh, my circuits can be the
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size of a house. So it's massively helped massively.
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So it's sort of like, I mean, going back, crikey over 40 years, I'm showing my age now,
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when I was at school, I remember doing physics and I did do design and technology. I think
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it was called design and technology back then. We did some electronics, but I remember the
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physics side of things. I always used to, I don't know, I was less engaged just looking
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at the teacher, put all these, these sort of formula up on the, on the blackboard and
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stuff. It was interesting to a degree, but I think I, my mind sort of focused on it a
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little bit more when it came to actually doing something as well. And it sort of somewhat
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what you've described, I, I would say that is giving the theory some, some context. It
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does help you understand it a bit, help me understand it a bit better. But also doesn't,
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doesn't it not make it a bit more interesting? So you're not just staring at sort of, you
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know, just figures and formulae. It's, you know, you're actually working through a problem
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of how to make something happen or what's the next part of the circuit. You're problem
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solving as you go, aren't you?
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Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I guess even throughout, you know, things that aren't electronics,
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but any engineering and like role in like most manufacturing, I would say a problem
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solving, that's what it boils down to. So having something where you actually know the
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reason you're doing something and you know, you can actually make, even if incremental
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changes along the way to get something a little bit better, you know, seeing something physically
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makes a massive difference. I agree.
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So how did you, how did you balance your day job then with, you know, studying for your
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degree, you know, wanting to improve. I mean, you've had a lot on your plate, haven't you?
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The last sort of four years or so.
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Yeah.
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Did you have any specific strategy to, to make sure you, you, you balance both the job
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and kept your mind on that whilst giving it your all with your, with your studies as well?
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Yeah, I would say it was definitely a work in progress throughout the year. So I started
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off maybe not as, as well as I should in balancing my time. You know, you get absorbed in one
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task at work or you get, you know, absorbed in trying to finish some coursework or revising
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for an exam and other things start slipping. But definitely by the last year, I think I'd
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got a little bit of a better handle on it. So I know for my, my final year projects at
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university, I had like a big Gantt chart. So like a, just a scheduled timeline planned
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out. And then you have, you know, all your tasks and, you know, how much you can allow
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them to slip by. So it takes a lot more time at the outset, you know, planning out what
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you're going to do and planning, all right, I've got these, these pieces of coursework
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due then I've got these deadlines or milestones at work then. But you know, then it helps
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you massively in the long run. So you might spend, you know, an extra week or whatever
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planning things out. And you think, Oh, no, I've lost a week. But then in reality, you
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know, you've gained all this time where you haven't finished this thing or you've stayed
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up till midnight trying to finish something else. So yeah, I'd say just planning at the
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I know it sounds so obvious, but yeah, planning at the outset really saved me. And it's something
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that I've really lacked a little bit in my first year. Yeah.
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Fantastic. And you mentioned earlier that your employer Leonardo, but you know, have
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been a great support to you. I guess, you know, you do need a bit of flexibility, you
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know, from your employer, don't you? It's the business needs will change on a day to
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day basis. And sometimes your studies, you might need a little bit of extra support now
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and again. So the best planning in the world, you know, something will crop up now and again,
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where you've got to find a happy medium. But when you're, you know, when you've been paid
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to do a day job as well, you know, you've got to make sure that you're, you know, respecting
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that and making sure that, as you say, nothing slips slips too much. But so Leonardo were
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were really proactive and gave everything that you need in terms of support and, and
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help. Yeah, I'd say they were even maybe more responsive
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than like an employer would usually be just because it was the first time they were sending
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someone through a degree. Yeah. So they were constantly saying, all right, like, how's
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the structure going at uni? Yeah, what's your work like there? Just so for the later years,
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you know, they've run it every year now since. So yeah, I'm a fourth year and they've got
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first years in, second years in, third years in. But for each of those, the scheme's gone
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a little bit smoother from the get go. Whereas it was just a bit more of a learning curve.
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But yeah, they're really responsive with like, reaching out to me and, you know, me saying,
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oh, this is maybe not working so well. Or even things like, you know, certain placements
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at work might be a little bit harder than others. Okay.
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Certain modules at university, you know, there might be a monster piece of coursework in
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it that, you know, people struggle with every year. So you think, all right, let's not align
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those two or maybe let's put this one nearer to, I don't know, a season where you haven't
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got exams or, you know, there's less milestones at work and those types of things.
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Yeah, it sounds like they've got a, you know, a blueprint now. Just as you've been through
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this, I dare say if you, you know, go on to do a masters or something in the future, having
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been through this process, you will know some of the pitfalls and, you know, be mindful
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of that. And hopefully you'll be in an even better place the next time you, you know,
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you do that. I mean, have you got any plans to, you know, to go further with a masters
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or anything like that in the future?
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Yeah. Yeah, I have actually. I, yeah, I was doing it through, I want to still like stay
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on with, with Leonardo just because he's been so supportive and I feel like I'd learn just
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as much, if not arguably more, you know, on the job. So I didn't want to lose that. And
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obviously, you know, to be frank, it's nice to get paid as well. So I'm going to be doing
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that maybe move down to like part-time at my current role is the plan and then pick
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up a masters as well and do that from September onwards.
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Yeah. So you've now got the combined experience of apprenticeship and, and sort of degree,
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you know, the academic study side of things, the hands-on, the practical, the theory. Having
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been through this process then to this point, how, how has that sort of potentially shaped
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your, your future career plans? Because when you, when you sort of joined Leonardo, you
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may have had a vision of maybe what you might have wanted to do, you know, four years down
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the line, you're doing totally different stuff to what you were doing in your first six months.
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Now you've been through all of this. Has that changed your thoughts about the future or
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what the possibilities might be?
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Yeah, yeah, definitely. There were certainly points. Well, when I left school, even at
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16, where I thought, you know, maybe I wouldn't, I wouldn't do a full degree or, you know,
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I'll just do something like a, like a HNC or something. And then, you know, as I was
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doing this degree, I thought, okay, like, it'd be nice when this is done. But now, you
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know, I'm going to be starting a masters. So I'd say further education is something
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that has definitely changed kind of my perspective on it and my drive for it just because I've
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been able to do it in tandem with work and see where things are actually relevant. Whereas
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up until I'd left school, it's only ever been, you know, maybe you could use it here or supposedly
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this is where it's relevant. So that's definitely my attitude towards that's changed. And I
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would say, yeah, maybe quite a positive change. I had a misconception almost that you had
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to, you know, you get to be an engineer for a certain amount of time or in a technical
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role, whatever it is, and then you have to become a manager. And then you have to do
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all these things. But at least at Leonardo, there seems to be like an alternative route
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to carry up on the technical progression. So you still get, you know, to have some bits
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of hands on or at least managing more technical things. So I think that's something that's
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changed as well. Just the positive outlook on seeing you can still do some progress through
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the role, but still be things like a senior engineer, principal engineer, you know, leader
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team of engineers, as opposed to just, you know, being pure project management, which
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is something that appeals to me a bit more being able to stay with the technology.
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Well, that's good to hear. And, you know, it's always good to have those sort of career
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path options. I think you're right. You know, when people go into manufacturing and engineering
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and then get some good studies behind them, they get this sort of HNC, HND degrees, whatever
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route they take to get to that level. I think there's that, or there can be that natural
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assumption that the next step is management and leadership and, you know, going up the
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hierarchy that way, whether that's through operations or engineering or, you know, project
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management or sales, whatever it might be. But the fact of the matter is not everybody
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makes a good leader. And so many companies, I see it all the time, I'm an executive recruiter,
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you know, this is my sort of backyard leadership and, you know, people progressing through
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businesses. And I love what you say about the, you know, the fact that you can still
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progress and you can still progress into senior positions through that technical route. And
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at the end of the day, you know, particularly in the UK, we need a strong backbone of technical
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competence, you know, all throughout our manufacturing and engineering businesses, you know, you can
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have some of the best leaders in the country, in the world, and we do need good leaders.
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And I'm really passionate about that. But you also need really, really strongly, technically
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gifted people that are going to be running those functions. And sometimes you can lose
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really, really good technical people to management. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I think
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you need a balance, you know, if everybody was just chasing the management and the senior
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leadership route, and those positions are few and far between anyway, we absolutely
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need people that are at the top of their game on the technical side. I think it's a bit
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of a misconception that, you know, the people that study the hardest and progress well should,
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as a default, go down that sort of manager or senior leadership career path, really,
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depends on the individual, I suppose, and what your preferences are. But it's nice to
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hear that, you know, you've got a passion for that technical side. And, you know, again,
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the world's your oyster, really.
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Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's, yeah, there's nothing to stop people as well. I like I've
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never viewed them as mutually exclusive things. Like, you know, if you want to do something
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technical, you can still keep on that. And maybe you just have like a smaller team of,
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you know, engineers working on a complex problem, and then have, you know, someone equally as
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valuable but working on the, you know, maybe the project management and the time scales
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and those type of things. So it's just, I see a lot of people go down that route. And
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then, you know, I went, I went in names, but then they seem to almost like lose a lot of
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their drive or why they started in that career in the first place. And that was because they
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were interested in, you know, the technology, whatever that may be at their company and
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not interested in, you know, Gantt charts or whatever they're doing in day to day them.
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Yeah. So what do you think the, your degree apprenticeship has given you in addition to,
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you know, the, the, the sort of technical, the, the knowledge and the experience that
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you've gained, which is totally valuable. But what else do you think you've, you've
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gained from it outside of the, the technical skills? Because you've clearly, you've grown
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as a person, you've grown, it's a journey, isn't it? Right. You know, this four year
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journey, I guess, when you look back, you probably feel a totally different person to
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the one four years ago. So what else do you think it's given you going through this process?
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That is a good point. I think a lot of the, I feel like every, every time, no matter what
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age you join a company. So I saw people, you know, I've seen people come in now at 16 years
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old to working in industry. I see people coming in at 18 years old. I see people after their
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degrees coming in at like 21, 22. And that's their first time ever having, you know, their
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proper full, I should say like career based job. Yeah. And they always seem to have to
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go through like one or two years of adjusting from, from school or from whatever they were
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doing prior into what it's actually like, just in general, just to have a job, work
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in industry and work for a customer. So I'll say I've kind of, one of the things is you
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get to get that diamond ticked off before you even move into an engineer role, which
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is nice. And yeah, I'll just say it's a big thing is just the experience of being in a
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workplace because it is a big different dynamic to being in school. That's, that's probably
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the major thing that sticks out to me. And maybe having the experience, you know, once,
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once you've already come into a full time role, someone's hired you for, to do something
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specific and they want you to do that. If you go through an apprenticeship, you have
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that unique bit of time beforehand where they can be more flexible. They can say, all right,
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yeah, try this out for, you know, three, six months, see how you like it. Or someone needs,
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you know, a spare apprentice at the moment in this, in this project. Does that sound
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cool? Do you want to have a go at that? Whereas I feel like maybe you wouldn't be able to
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get into those opportunities as much if someone's just hired you as, you know, ex engineer,
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you know, we needed to do this. We've got this job at the moment. So there's a massive
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bit of trying things out and seeing what fits you. And that's quite, quite hard coming out
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of school, you know, deciding what you want to do for the rest of your life. So if you
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go on a more generic engineering program and then you get to go around mechanical, you
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get to see software and all the other types of electronics, then you just get to actually
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have a better understanding of what it's really like doing that role. And yeah, it's just,
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just lucky to have the opportunity as opposed to then picking one for your degree and thinking,
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all right, I've got to stick with this now for the rest of my life. But yeah.
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Nice to have those options. Okay. So having been through this exciting journey, then what,
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what advice would you give Solomon to any individuals, any youngsters considering an
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apprenticeship or a degree apprenticeship or any sort of formal, you know, further education
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before, you know, pursuing, you know, so if they're at school, you know, how, what, what
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thought process should they be going through? And if they're considering an apprenticeship
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or somebody's moving from an apprenticeship and going to do a degree, have you got any
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advice for, for any of these types of people based on your experiences?
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Yeah. Yeah. I would say, I would actually say that an apprenticeship isn't maybe best
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suited for everyone. And I think it's really well suited to other people in my opinion,
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at least. So I don't see it's good to get like the word out about apprenticeships and
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explain what they are. If you're someone who really enjoys doing practical things at school,
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so like your DT lessons and actually working on things physically, you know, it might,
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it might be a good idea to do a degree apprenticeship because then you get all that practical experience.
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Yeah. I would also say maybe if you're a particularly hard worker and you want to challenge yourself,
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it's a really good option. You know, doing a degree at the same time as working isn't,
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isn't an easy route. It's a really valuable route. And you come out, you know, you come
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out of the scheme. So the new scheme is three years long. So say you're a graduate, you
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come out, you've done three years of study at university with zero years experience.
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You come out of the exact same position with no doubt, three years of salary on top of
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that and three years of experience on top of that. So it's just a completely different
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situation. But then you've put in all that extra effort to do that and get there. So
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if you want that head start and you're, and you're prepared to put in some, some extra
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effort and probably the most important thing, you're actually passionate about it. And you
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have an idea, you know, I want to do something in engineering, I want to do something in
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manufacturing or whatever the field is, you know, yeah, apprenticeships and all, and all
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types of things. I was a data scientist I was speaking to the other week. You know, I've
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seen all types of apprenticeships pop up. So yeah, if you're really passionate or you
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have a general idea of what you want to do and you want to get started, you want to start
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your career now and you're passionate about it. Yeah. Just, just give apprenticeships
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a go. Definitely.
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Brilliant. Well, thank you for that advice. And I liked what you said then, maybe there's
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a strapline in there somewhere. There were three points you made, no debt. You're getting
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paid pretty well, you know, whilst you're, whilst you're learning and you're gaining valuable
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qualifications and then you've got all that experience as well. Wow. What's not to like
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about that? So, you know, if, if, if we can get this podcast out to more parents, people
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with kids that are considering their career options, or even people that have just started
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out in, in manufacturing or engineering, maybe on the shop floor and it's not part of a,
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a formal, you know, apprenticeship or anything else, there are opportunities there for everybody.
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And you know, why, why go racking up all that debt to get a degree when you can, you know,
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you can do the, the earn while you learn route and get the qualification as well. It sounds
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like a no brainer to me.
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Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's a lot of people actually that I know who did the
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kind of technician or manufacturing workshop based and then their employees have put them
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on it as upskilling thing. They've come out as an engineer, you know, they've been working
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at companies for years. A lot of them are at uni. And yeah, that was quite cool to see
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all these different points of entry. You know, some people come straight from A levels. I'd
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come from a previous apprenticeship, but yeah, if it's something you're, you're keen about
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and you want to learn more, you know, there's never a point that's really too early or too
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late to jump on an apprenticeship.
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Yeah. Upskilling. There's a lot of that to be done in the UK. Okay. So finally, how do
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you think students can make the most out of their apprenticeship experience to prepare
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themselves better for a degree program? Cause you did this sort of shorter apprenticeship
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type thing before, didn't you? So how do you think they can make the most out of that apprenticeship
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experience if they're going to then, you know, get ready for a degree?
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Yeah. Yeah, for sure. A big one, that's kind of the precursor to a lot of, a lot of these
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courses is getting your, your maths and English done. And I, you know, some people aren't
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always going to be keen, especially, you know, well, some technical people might not like
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English as much or, you know, maybe not even maths as much. But getting those done and
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ticked off out the way while you're doing your level three or your first apprenticeship
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is just really key. Cause you don't want to have to be thinking about doing those type
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of qualifications on top of your degree and then on top of your work. So that's, that's
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a big thing. First of all, secondly, I'd say get involved in any type of extracurricular
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activities. First of all, you get to network with people and you know, you hear about,
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so I actually heard about Leonardo, my current company through my first employer, through
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talking to people. So we get to see other companies out there and what other people
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are doing. But also there'll be, for example, there's like a college run club for micro
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controllers. So an extra bit of work you could do, you know, like once, once a week in the
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evening. And those types of things are really good just as to keep, you know, keep your
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brain ticking on these type of problems and just explore something a little bit outside
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of the basic course. And it gives you that little bit of edge as well. If you're looking
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to then progress on a full-time degree or a degree apprenticeship, just showing you've
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done that little bit extra. And you always learn, I feel like the most when you're, you've
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got less kind of structure to it. There's so many more ways to go wrong.
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Brilliant. Well, thank you for sharing all these insights with me this afternoon. It's
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been a, it's been a really fascinating discussion. Congratulations again, Solomon on your first
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year with honours. You know, you're, you're on a great career path. You're with a decent
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business as well. I mean, what, what a great position to be in, but thank you very much
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for sharing your time with me this afternoon and helping get the message out there for
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more people to get into UK manufacturing and engineering and make the most of different
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schemes available for apprenticeships, degrees, any sort of learning, investing yourself.
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And yeah, the rest is, the rest is easy. So they say, but thank you very much for joining
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me today. So that, that wraps up today's episode. I hope you've enjoyed our discussion, Solomon.
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Thank you for having me on. Yeah, thanks. You're very welcome. And thanks to the viewers
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and the listeners for, for dialing in. We'll see you next time on the next episode of insights
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for manufacturing. See you next time. And bye bye.