Alex G: Hey everyone, welcome back to Inside the Kingdom. I'm Alex, and of course, today we are joined by cartoonist David Reddick. David is a creative intelligent
David: Hello.
Alex G: life. Hello, David. David is a creative intelligent life and legend of Bill, and he's also part of the team behind Blondie. But his career goes quite a bit further than that with work across Garfield, Star Trek, Popeye, Flash Gordon, and plenty more. What I really want to talk about today, though, is how he balances the balance between creating something completely your own, Dave, and stepping into these enormous comic worlds like a flash course, et cetera, that already means something to generations of readers. So, Dave, welcome to Inside the Kingdom.
David: Thank you, Alex. Nice to be here. Hello.
Alex G: Yeah, this is I kind of say this to to just about everyone with these are long overdue and I really mean it. We have such a roster of cartoonists here at King that I think Inside the Kingdom was really born out of that. The idea that we want to showcase that roster and the work behind it. And so I'm really happy that you're joining us today. we were at Col
David: Yeah, me too.
Alex G: we were in Columbus, Ohio a few weeks ago, had a great time out
David: Yeah.
Alex G: there, and it was just naturally segued into let's get on let's get on camera and let's start talking here. So how have you been?
David: Exactly. And I'm glad we did. I've been doing well. Been doing well. I've been recovering from the amazing National Cartoonist Society convention that was last week. Seeing all those cartoonists was amazing. You know, editors, cartoonists, the whole thing. What a what a great time. It's so fantastic. It reminds you that you don't actually live in this little bubble of reality, which a cartoonist can tend to slip into, and that there's a pretty broad spectrum of amazing other cartoonists that live the way you live and Do what you do and set out to do what you are doing now. And and many of us share a very similar story. So I'm still writing high off the magic of it, I would say. And what meeting you, Alex?
Alex G: No, no, no. Thank you. Thank you. I always say I'm the kid in the candy store and it's true, man. I'm I come through I as much as I work in the field, I'm I'm such a fan of everyone and all of the work that you produce and you know, obviously the Rubens and some of the some of the names that were there, like Dave Pilke was in the room, right? Jim Davis, some of the legends
David: Yeah.
Alex G: that that, you know, set the ground for us. I'm gonna talk about Jim a little bit too today. But before we even
David: Yeah, my old boss.
Alex G: go into cartooning, I do have to call out that background because we're in the green room. And I was like, what's it's such a beautiful wallpaper? And I whoa, whoa, whoa, that those are actually frames. And then the this so the multifaceted nature of who David Reddick is, this is your art. Explain
David: Yes.
Alex G: just a bit. This is beautiful.
David: Sure. So these are paintings that are currently in progress. And I have several more over to my left as well. a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I was a gallery painter. So in my twenties, for a couple of years I was in about seven galleries, that included Indianapolis, Florida, Michigan, France, England. and I'm I would classify myself, I suppose, as an abstract expressionist. If I had to give myself a title. So so I did that for a couple of years before my cartooning actually really took off. I was a singer before that, actually. I've never been good at normal jobs. So anyway, pretty much cut out for this kind of thing. So I just I I paint a lot, and lately I've just I don't know, I've been kind of on an extra painting surge. So you're looking at some of it behind me there. That was the short answer.
Alex G: Well, wonderful answer. And it it's it's amazing stuff that you have there. As I'm watching him looking at like, okay, okay. It's it's literally kind of distracted
David: Yeah.
Alex G: as I'm as I as I'm speaking through and thinking through this stuff. It's all it's all beautiful stuff. I have to see the rest of your gallery
David: Yes, yes.
Alex G: because this is this is really good stuff.
David: Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that very much.
Alex G: So let's go into your background a little bit, right? I like to start there.
David: Sure.
Alex G: as I was doing my due diligence, I say just fine online references, your personal portfolios, all that sort of stuff. You say, I I learned that you were an early cartoonist. You set about doing this pretty you're one of those rare individuals that that kind of knew very early you wanted to do this.
David: Yeah.
Alex G: do you actually remember deciding I want to be a cartoonist?
David: yeah, I remember I remember I remember it vividly. Sorry, I tripped up because it's just like, yeah, I do. here, you know what, Alex? Let me tell you about it. so it began when I was five and I was in kindergarten.
Alex G: Yeah.
David: The teacher the teacher said, Okay, kids, time to finger paint. She put out some red paint, some blue paint, told us to have at it. being the kid that I was, I was curious, well That's boring. What would happen if I were to mix the red and the blue together? So I did, mixed it up. It turned purple and complete, absolute magic, and it stunned me. On that at that very same time. So that was one part of it where art became something magical to me. It was just like, wait, what? And I needed to know more. I I wanted to know more about this. I also got in total trouble, by the way. And I thought it was absolutely worth it, you know. And Not to be confused when I would break my crowns and throw that throw them at other kids, but that's a different story. So anyway, right around that same time, five years old, I got my first peanuts collection, which was which was amazing. And I remember that so vividly. On the back of that, on those old paperbacks, I mean they're like dime store paperback type books, was a picture of Charles Schultz, and he was wearing this turtleneck and this cardigan and these. Corduroy pants and loafers look so comfortable. And I was I was thinking, a human being that can do this. Like somebody did this and they he drew this. My curiosity went off the charts. I had first of all, I had to know more. Second of all, I immediately began to dream of doing exactly that. I mean, I couldn't think of anything else I would rather do at that time and now than make comic strips and and draw my own characters and my own worlds. And so I s I set about collecting all the Peanuts collections, all the Garfield collections, et cetera, et cetera. And just dreaming of it from the age of five. I mean, being very, very, I mean, super, very tunnel visioned on it. And did lots of other things in between it happening, but I was always working on becoming a cartoonist. I mean, it was always at the forefront of my thoughts, no matter what I was doing. And so I every single day I never take it for granted. I feel incredibly fortunate to be doing exactly the thing I set out to do when I was five.
Alex G: So I guess it sounds like Peanuts unlocked that creative aspect or that dream for you.
David: Yeah, yes, very much so. Very much so. Just I mean, it was just everything. I I'm just thinking about that book. The smell of that that pulpy paper. I had silly putty. You could stick it on those books because it was just black and white
Alex G: Yeah.
David: ink. You could stick it on the ink and it would come off on the silly putty and stretch it out. I mean, just the whole thing. I tore that book up. And and of course all the other books after that. I mean, I colored them. Again, they in black and white. And, you know, peanuts, the style is nice and simple and clean. But I was amazed at how I mean this entire world was fleshed out on these simple panels. I mean, it blew me away. It still blows me away. I mean, just with an ink pen and paper, I could practically smell the spring air when Snoopy's sitting on top of his doghouse, you know, doing his thing or whatever, or Charlie Brown chasing the football or trying to kick it, et cetera, et cetera. That definitely unlocked it unlocked something magical in tandem completely. with the whole kindergarten finger paint debacle.
Alex G: Is it true that you wrote Charles Schultz asking how to be a cartoonist?
David: I did. I sure did, yeah. I sure did. Wrote him and I I got I asked, I had read something somewhere in some book, like, you know, big cartoonists and you know, they might send form letters. And so I I asked my letter was annoyingly specific in terms of questions, and I was like, this'll really get him. Only Charles Schultz. I mean, because I had read quite a bit about him. I did this with Jim Davis as well at the age of thirteen for the record. Same thing. So with Charles Schultz. Wrote this very pointed, specifically question questioning letter about, you know, very particular things that I figured even if he had an assistant or something else, they're not going to know this. Only Charles Schultz would know this. I was a kid. And I got a letter answering every single question, thanking me for it. And Charles Schultz's biggest advice, this was huge for me. His biggest advice was: don't, I mean, this is what he said. He said, don't follow. Don't follow a lesser path with cartooning. pay attention to the classics, the classic cartoonists that came even before me. That's where you need to get your your learning from. And so he inspired me to then seek out
Alex G: Really?
David: cartoonists like George Harriman and and Cliff Starrett and, you know, Polly and her pals, a bunch of classics. I grew up in an antique shop, so it made it a little bit easy because we had piles of old newspapers that went all the way back to around 1910. And I would just go through all of that stuff, mimicking a lot of those old styles. I took what he sent me very seriously. So yeah.
Alex G: Did you ever get did you give it a chance to meet Charles or or you know parlay with him?
David: No. No. Always wanted to, never never had any communication with them again there thereafter. But however,
Alex G: okay.
David: I did with one Jim Davis. and I have to tell this story just in to follow it up with the the peanuts one because it cracks me up. Thirteen years old. I loved Garfield, had a couple of collections at that point, and I had all these ideas for Garfield and like I don't know, like some weird 13-year-old kid who thought he knew everything. I drew him four pages of Garfield ideas, and of course, hand wrote a
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: letter, in addition, on how to make Garfield even funnier, which cracks me up. And I mean, I was really serious about this. You know, sealed it up, mailed it, sent it off in the mail, got a little letter back from him. I still, I still have both of those letters. a letter back from him thanking me for for my ideas and and for Taking Garfield so seriously. And it was a bit short. had a little sketch on it, made me happy. And I was always a little disappointed. I I felt, you know, I don't think he really took me seriously. He's probably not going to use my amazing ideas. You know, the the mind of a 13-year-old. And fast forward, I'm 32, and and that's when I was hired to actually write for Garfield and work for Garfield with Jim, sitting in his office, and not a day went by where I didn't think about that letter. And I was like, yes. No, I'm kidding. But
Alex G: Did you ever did you ever bring it up? Then you say, Hey
David: I totally did. I showed him the letter that I got back. You know, I mean, I sure did. I I brought it up. He he thought it was hilarious. Jim's got a great sense of humor and he was just fantastic work to work with. And we got a pretty good laugh out of that. So yeah. And I got to see it
Alex G: So it's that
David: was it was magical to see other people's letters continuously to come in continue to come in when I was working there and and he would read every one and answer them. It was it was pretty fantastic. What were you going to say?
Alex G: I was gonna say, did five year old you know that you were putting together podcast material as well later on in
David: I did not know. I had no idea. I had no idea. But but now I can look back and give that five year old a little hug and say, you know what, kid, we did it. Good job. I think everyone should do that.
Alex G: So in addition to obviously enterprising at five and knowing that you're gonna be a cartoonist as you in you know when you grew up or wanted to be,
David: Wanted to be. Hoped. Yeah.
Alex G: you're also self-taught, correct? Largely self taught.
David: Yes. Yes. So when I was in high school I I earned a special scholarship to attend the Heron School of Art in Indianapolis. I did that throughout all of high school for four years. So I actually accrued a year's worth of of college just from doing that. but from from high school I went straight to the Navy. So basically self taught on I would say self taught on everything. So yeah, just just
Alex G: was
David: a lot of research and a lot of library time. Still do that.
Alex G: What was that navy experience like?
David: It was good. I I was a cryptologist in in navy intelligence. So it was it was most interesting and that's as much as I'm allowed to say.
Alex G: It matches. That matches. That matches. That actually it goes well.
David: Let's see. Navy intelligence cryptologist cartoonist. Hmm. One
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: of these things is not like the other. So
Alex G: So as you were going through progressing, obviously, self-taught, you knew you have the the Schultz reference, the Jim Davis, obviously, input Harriman going through all this. Your early styles was it was it literally just mimicking older cartoons? when did you branch
David: yes.
Alex G: out into just making your your own distinct style? Because David Reddick does have a distinct style.
David: thank you. And I love that style actually. I mean, like it just it just comes out by accident and it makes me really happy because as a cartoonist you spend so many years wanting a style and wondering what
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: it's gonna wind up looking like. So yes, to answer your question, in those in the early days, I mean I would say all the way up even in into my my early twenties, I was continuously mimicking other styles, even animation. I was a huge fan of really old like Disney and Warner Brothers animation, old Fleischer cartoons, black and white stuff. so constantly mimicking that kind of stuff. And I mean, it's through that, it's through that mimicking that you don't even realize how much you're learning and how much you're developing a style. How much things appealed to you and spoke to you. I mean, Hanna Bar Hanna Barbera cartoons were huge for me as well. That's at probably one of the biggest influences on my cartooning style. I mean, when I look at Legend of Bill, I can, I can actually see it. you know. Yeah,
Alex G: I see a lot of yogi. I see a lot of yogi.
David: I mean, you know, it just it's interesting how much of an effect those old Hanna Barbera cartoons had on me. And I loved them. I mean, I just love that stuff. So it was it was in it was in my twenties at some point that that's when it was in my twenties that I started selling single panel cartoons to newspapers, to like Woman's World magazine and sc New York Times up front and scholastic and such like that. And so I was really trying to hone a classic single panel cartoon style, kind of New Yorker ish. and it's funny because through my twenties, most of my twenties, I didn't think I I used to think, I've got what it takes to do single panel cartoons, but I don't think I could I don't think I've got what it takes to do comic strips, you know. Not that I didn't believe in myself entirely. It was just it seemed daunting and I was I was really dialed in on the single panel stuff. And Until until I was it. Until suddenly I wanted more space. But I love I love the parameters of of comics, whether it's a single panel or three panel, four panel, whatever. I love the the restrictions that come with it because you're forced you're forced to take out a lot of stuff and keep it on point, as it were, in a certain kind of way. That's very appealing to me. There's an order to it. And I would say my my style really, really blossomed when I had gotten hired to work. For Garfield. I actually freelanced that for a while and then Jim hired me full-time and brought me out to the studio, where I worked for several years. But it was when I sold a comic strip idea to CBS and Paramount Pictures start for the Star Trek franchise, for their for the main website, Star Trek.com. And I had an idea, it was a crazy idea, and I was like, you know what? I've got this idea, this super
Alex G: Yeah.
David: predated the Big Bang Theory, by the way. I had you know, I had this idea of fans of Star Trek, a super fan, an in-between super fan, and and a girl who knew nothing about Star Trek whatsoever, all best friends, what would that be like? And I started writing comic strips and drawing them. That's where my style started happening, particularly when I sent in that submission to the editor. Didn't hear a thing. About two months went by and I was like, you know, I mean you win some, you lose some. I had sent stuff to syndicates already, such like that. And I I got got a response from them and they said that they loved the idea and could I do more, which I did, and then they they hired me to do three times a week a comic strip called The Trek Life for Star Trek.com, which spawned into the UK's R OK Media, IDW Publishing, Tokyo Pop, Star Trek magazine. It was it was all over the place. It was optioned as an animated series right before the writer's strike in 2007, which
Alex G: Mm.
David: Canceled out CBS Interactive and canceled out my comic strip. But anyway, it was during the Trek Life that my style really that's when it really emerged, where I was I was consistently doing a comic strip. That was a long answer, but there you have it. And it just went from there.
Alex G: No, no, no. But it's a wonderful answer. I mean, we w we were just sidebaring again, green room stuff where we're talking about the wonder of comics and how, you know, ninety percent of comics, well, long form and in where and long running franchises is just unraveling storylines and adding stuff to it. And so I'm not, you it's core to what we're talking about here. And obviously, I don't want to lose sight of Garfield because I am gonna ask you a question there, but this just immediately popped out to me
David: Sure.
Alex G: as you were going through Star Trek or Star Track Life, I should say. This is the question I was gonna ask about intelligent life. Is this the nexus of intelligent life? Like was this was this planting the seed or the DNA for what eventually became that?
David: Absolutely. yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. With intelligent life, so the Trek Life was was long gone and with intellig I mean for for years. And I still loved that concept. And so those characters, they didn't actually technically morph into the into intelligent life, but intelligent life actually morphed from an old idea I created when I was a kid of of a guy named
Alex G: Yeah.
David: Skip with Elvis hair, because I was an Elvis fan when I was a kid. And an alien dog named Mike and their interactions and trying to keep Mike, you know, looking like a dog and not giving away who he was. That's what actually spawned into intelligent life. But the Trek Life, the the kind of that kind of humor definitely it was the seeds were planted there in terms of just fandom in general for intelligent life on on a variety of pop culture and and just geeky, nerdy things that I myself tend to like. And have an unusual level of knowledge about. So I put it put it into characters in the comic. And in the comic, the guy with his alien dog turned into Skip and Mike best pals and and of course Gwen and Barry as well. So it took on a life of its own. But yeah. I think that just happens though. I mean, all the things that you do over the course of time. I mean, Legend of Bill was something I created when I was a kid. I didn't call it Legend of Bill, it was something else. I don't even rem remember what it was called. But
Alex G: Life of Bill
David: It might have been life a phil, maybe it was. That's
Alex G: That's it.
David: right. You d let's go with that. You know, I'm gonna thank you, Alex. I'm
Alex G: Yeah.
David: glad I thought of that. But anyway, you know, so
Alex G: Ha ha.
David: these things they stick with you and they take take on different they they can look differently, they take on different forms. And sometimes they just stick to their core material that you came up with ages ago. So it's just one of the beauties and fun things about cartooning. It's sort of a re a complete refusal to to grow up entirely. I mean, I'm I'm not kidding because when I work, let's say on Legend of Bill, when I'm write just writing it. Today I was writing Legend of Bill comics, and I mean, I'm going through old DD manuals, you know, just kind of getting ideas, thinking about it, because there's a lot of DD-esque stuff in Legend of Bill for me. And I was like,
Alex G: Yeah. Yeah.
David: this is so Fun. I mean, this is the kind of stuff I was doing when I was a kid. I mean, seriously, when I was 12 years old, pouring through, you know, fantasy or science fiction type stuff and gleaning a little of this, a little bit of that. And what if I had characters that did this thing and did that thing or whatever, or went on adventures and it's it's fun. It's you don't ever really grow out of a a certain part of yourself. So to me, cartooning and making comics is this magical way of holding on to it to a part of yourself. That is we all we can all lose. We can all lose so many parts of ourselves over time. You know, we can look back and think, you know, what happened to to that version of me? Or, you know, where where did he go or something? But there's this one part that it's like he's all he, as part of myself, he's always been here, you know, like, man, it's good to have you around. That kind of stuff. It's a little
Alex G: Yeah, don't get me started. We can go we can go down that whole road of adulting, right? And what that necess what that means or
David: yeah.
Alex G: doesn't mean, et cetera. I have close friends. They tell me I'm gonna live to like a hundred and ten because, you know, that's not a day that I stress in my life because of what I do for a living, or you what, et cetera, et cetera. Which isn't
David: Exactly.
Alex G: true, which isn't true at all, right? But needless to say, you're right. You know, I when I say kid in a candy store, I share that same sentiment. Like this is there is a part of me here and a part of cartoonists and a part of this industry, I think, that is that, that you lose that you keep and maintain from childhood.
David: Yeah, yeah.
Alex G: And I think if I'm if I heard this correctly, some of that formed itself or really formed itself when you when you started more so on the professional side with Garfield. So I don't want to lose sight
David: Yeah.
Alex G: of just that, but I do want to go into intelligent life and life of Bill. Legend of Bill. I don't know, life of Bill. I don't get that out of my some life life of Bill, Legend of Bill.
David: Yeah, I I like that life of Bill. I'm gonna remember that.
Alex G: Yeah, the life of Bill, right? But Legend of Bill. But I wanna I I guess I wanna I wanna unpack that a little bit more, right? So like when you were working with Jim And you mentioned this a little bit ago about liking that the the the constraints of a comic strip.
David: Mm-hmm.
Alex G: was that w well, basically a flat out question. What did Jim teach you about constructing comic strips?
David: Setup, twist, punch. Setup, twist, punch. Setup, twist, punch. That was one of the biggest things that he taught me was keep it simple, keep it easy, don't make readers work for it. Let them have fun with it and relate to it and enjoy it. And, you know, and I don't always accomplish that. I mean, I don't think anybody always accomplishes that, but that was a
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: biggie. But also, he he did actually teach me quite a bit. I mean, in terms of, you know, listen to your readers. don't ever think that you know more than your readers. don't ever make them think that you know more than more than than them. communicate with them and and just have fun with it. I mean, Jim was very much about having fun. I mean, have fun with this. This is fun. It's supposed to be fun and enjoyable. It's also work. I there's an old Picasso quote, something about inspiration happens, but it has to find you working, I think is I think is the quote. And I would say that kind of tracks with a lot of what Jim was at was about and what I learned from him, which was you can have fun with this, but it's also work and you have to work at it and you have to keep, keep quality and keep maintain that and
Alex G: Right.
David: take it seriously while also having fun with it. And so I learned a lot of the business side and a lot of just like logistics from Jim as well, just in terms of how to take doing this seriously in a certain kind of way. Almost almost
Alex G: Right.
David: in a logistics data driven kind of way combined with creative freewheeling, you know, pie in the sky way, which doesn't at all track with being a cryptologist and a cartoonist. So, you know, it worked for me and and I liked it. So, you know, those are some of the things I learned.
Alex G: I'd imagine he taught you well not even him. I think working on a franchise like that probably taught you a lot about what not to do.
David: yeah, sure.
Alex G: things. Does working or did working on a character like that or any characters like that ilk or things that have this long send company? We mentioned Flash, we mentioned Papa, working on on these sort of franchises, did they instill more discipline in in what you do?
David: yes, absolutely. And the truth is, I mean, quite honestly, yes. So the short answer is absolutely instilled more discipline. And I have to say, that is where the magic of working on Blondie comes in for me. That's it's on Blondie and working with Dean Young that I have really learned so much about just maintaining high quality. Maintaining the discipline of doing it because drawing Blondie, which is what I do. I'm I'm an assistant artist to John Marshall on Blondie. And I work with a great team. I mean, you've got Dean Young and his daughters Dana and Dion. Wonderful team. Everyone's like family. Love it. And that is such such a high-quality comic in terms of of art. And
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: of course, Dean's writing is is amazing on it. and but You really there was discipline with Gerfield, but I wore quite a few hats with Gurfield as well. I started out writing for the comic strip and then that morphed into working on licensing, working on all
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: things digital, running social media, et cetera. And even doing some stuff on animation with Glenn Zimmerman, the amazing animator that worked there. But with Blondie, it's such a particular style and the the quality is so high, it it demands your your absolute, complete, and full attention and and discipline. And I mean I kind of took that from Garfield to Blondie, but it's true. It's on Blondie that I I think I've truly as a cartoonist blossomed the most in terms of I mean, everything from drawing skill to to to discipline. Yeah. So that was a little bit of a wonky answer, but hopefully that answered that.
Alex G: No, no, but I I mean it all of this I think is really information in my mind of how you got to intelligent life, right? And so one thing I've noticed about intelligent life, and it it really just came together in Columbus, I'll honest, is I've
David: Yeah, no, that's
Alex G: noticed the characters, and I think I'm hearing it here as well, the characters seem to be really divided versions of you.
David: Yes. Yeah, totally. Absolutely.
Alex G: And this is where you get to correct me and the audience. So you'd be like, no, that's not true at all. These are all just manifestations of nonsense I've seen all over the world, right? But not me at all. So but
David: Right. No.
Alex G: so how much let's go there. How much of you is divided amongst those characters? How much of you is Skip? How much of you is you know, Barry?
David: Okay, th that's a great question. I'm gonna answer this very specifically. So Skip is a part of me that is he's probably I'm probably closest to Skip. Skip is often kind of just he's sort of the nucleus of of the group and kind of the straight man in many ways. And where the other characters bounce off of him in a certain kind of way. So I think I
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: often I don't consciously think about this when I'm writing and drawing intelligent life. However, I would say that it would be Skip's shoes that I would be sitting in and communicating with the other characters if I were to insert
Alex G: Yeah, yeah.
David: myself into the comic. Many things about Skip are about me, really. Mike is a facet of me that is there. I mean, basically, you know, hyper-focused, kind of obnoxious, fun, goes deep on the things that he loves. you know, just he. That's definitely a part of me that isn't as prominent as maybe more of the straight man skip, but it's totally part of me. And then there are also parts of Mike that I would like to be more like or retain, you know, as it were. Gwen has this straight shooter, very, you know, just no nonsense, you know, the this is how it is, kind of kind of quality that I really respect and like a lot. And that's that's that. is a facet of me, but I think it's something that I admire and I like. So that comes out in Gwen. Barry is absolutely nothing like me at all. And he's the one that I get to he hit it's through his eyes that I get to look at the world differently and see through a different just through through a different prism, a different lens as far as far as that goes. I mean, you know, Barry's the, you know, he's the office playboy, jock, plays fan fantasy football and does all these these things, things that I don't really do. And I don't know a whole lot about, so I get to learn more about those things through Barry and also just kind of watch Barry be Barry. He's often the most fun one to write. I don't know why. Just because he's a little,
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: he's a little unchained as far as the stupid things that he says and does that I like. When I say stupid, I say that lovingly because they're hilarious.
Alex G: Yeah, yeah.
David: But there have been comics early on where Barry showed it surprised me. This is the fun thing about writing comics, is your own characters and your own situations can surprise you. Something that surprised me was that Barry has actually a lot of heart. I discovered through through writing. And I I know that sounds funny to say that I discovered, but it's
Alex G: Yeah.
David: one of the fun things about writing is you discover things that it's almost like you didn't think of think of it. It came to you. The characters spoke it to you in some kind of crazy way, and yet it was you. That's not weird. And I learned that Barry was in the Navy and he ha he's got a lot of heart. He helped he helped a homeless man. dig out from from a hole and get his life together and also try to date his his long lost daughter. I mean, because that's Barry, you know. So, you know,
Alex G: Yeah.
David: even with a heart, he's he's still Barry. But it it made him really, it gave him depth and made him likable extra in a certain kind of way. And each of the characters has has opened up in certain kinds of ways like that to me, where it takes me by surprise and endears them to me even more.
Alex G: So that actually opens up two questions in my mind. One, who's the easiest to write? And secondly, and this is almost the origin part of this, who came first? Or what came first? Did the characters come first, or did the idea of a pop culture nerd, culture, geek, con geek fandom, comic strip come first?
David: Right. So two questions. Number one, Barry is the easiest one to write because he's this is gonna sound dumb and almost double sided, but he's simultaneously s yeah,
Alex G: Well it sounds like you have the most fun writing what you just said. Yep, yep.
David: he's simultaneously simplistic and complex all at the same time, which sounds so dumb to put into words, but but it's funny.
Alex G: Yeah.
David: He's very simplistic in his motivations, I would say, and his his agenda in life, but there's a complex Complexity to him that can that can be surprising. So I think he's probably the easiest one to write. as far as what came first, Skip and Mike, definitely. Skip and Mike back when I was a kid, as just a guy and his alien dog, before they morphed into what they are now. So just the idea came first. That those were the days when I when I made them up, long before I was ever actually doing comics for a living, when I was when I was a kid, when I was much younger. I was constantly getting ideas. I just didn't know how to execute them and how to make them happen. and of course that came with time and and learning. So Skip and Mike came first. Just the drawings, lots of drawings of them, just walking and doing stuff, staring off into space. I don't know, whatever. without as a kid, without the guts to try to like flesh it out very much because I wasn't really
Alex G: Yeah.
David: sure how to do it. They're in was the motivation to go to the library and you know, the school library and find everything on on just comics, cartoons, children's books, Dr. Seuss, et cetera, you know, trying to figure out how did that person do that? You know, how did they draw that? How did they write that? What materials did they use? Et cetera, et cetera.
Alex G: Yeah.
David: Taking deep dives through life. So
Alex G: Why didn't we win at trivia night then, man? It seems like you did all this research and then we only had about
David: I know.
Alex G: two or three questions. You were captain of the team. What happened?
David: I know. And I blew it, but you know which one I did not blow? And I
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: I nailed the blondie question. And you know what? That was my takeaway. It was the one that I smashed out so fast before he finished his sentence. And I was, I just said, blondie. And I was like, Yes.
Alex G: Right.
David: Yes. And so that was a huge win. I consider it. I might have blown it for the team, but it was a personal victory, let me just say. Also, yeah, I don't know I don't know what that's about. I yeah I
Alex G: No, it's okay. We're it it it was that was such a it was one, such an awesome room and it was fun. It was a fun night, but man, the wealth of knowledge that was going through there. It was just blitzing through my mind, like, okay, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah.
David: It was fun. It was. It was so fun. Wow. Tell me about it. I think what I was most impressed with was the occasional table that would hit the button to answer before they even knew the answer and then would
Alex G: Yeah.
David: huddle and come out and have the answer. It was it was amazing. It was so impressive. It's like put a bunch of cartoonists
Alex G: Yeah, yeah, it was really good. It was really good.
David: in a room and yeah, the wealth of knowledge is is amazing. So it was great.
Alex G: That that kind of segues one back into intelligent life, but also you know, trivia pop culture, right? And intelligent life, pop culture, they're ingrained. It's part of what the strip is.
David: Yeah.
Alex G: pop culture moves at the speed of light. So how how did how
David: Yes, it does.
Alex G: is it that you that you navigate writing intelligent life and not and not having it be something disposable?
David: That's a good question. So a lot of the humor is character-based humor with the characters just interacting as they do, where there aren't actual references, and then the references come in randomly. They come in often, but randomly.
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: I I gave up thinking in terms of just because it's so pop culture based. A long time ago I gave up thinking in terms of, okay, this is gonna date itself. I just allow it to do so, almost like it's a time capsule of this is what was going on in twenty twenty-six, you know, or something like that.
Alex G: Smart.
David: so it allows me to just keep up on everything that's happening. I mean everything from, you know, science to, you know, technology, space, movies, TV, you name it, action figures, whatever. So, but I keep the humor more rooted in in character-driven scenarios and and interactions, etc. And then the pop culture side kind of rides the coattails of of that core of it. And I think I feel like that works pretty nicely. And again, just provides a time capsule as far as I mean, I
Alex G: Yeah.
David: can look back at old 2014 intelligent lifes and and there are a lot of references of things that were happening exactly at that time. And it's actually a lot of fun because I can go back and kind of check that out. So that's kind of how I look at it.
Alex G: Are there any references that you refuse to explain?
David: No, I don't think so. I think I I'm pretty willing to touch on anything and have touched on most most things I've wanted to touch on. No, nothing's really off limits to me. it can be fun. I mean, well, okay, there it I don't touch on politics, so I suppose that would be a thing that's off limits. I just I don't have an interest in that. in doing that in in the comic. So I just stay away from that. And you know, that's about it.
Alex G: Well, more so like refuse to explain in the sense that like you'll let the reader or you trust that the reader's gonna understand what's going on. Like you're not even gonna go Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: yes, as far as like pop culture references, et cetera. Yes. yeah. No. Yeah. I I try not to be too explanatory. I just make the assumption what you just said. I just make the assumption the reader is going to get this. And if they don't, they're going to get that it probably makes sense. Or they might even look it up and and say,
Alex G: Ha ha ha
David: who knows? So yeah, I just kind of I just let the reader go with it. So yeah, I mean I did a comic, I don't know, earlier this year. It was it was just skip and mic talking about Essentially the nature of the universe and the meaning of of of all things. And at the very end, it was just I don't know. It had something to do with it was a space, it was some study. It was some scientific study about something in space, a new, you know, galaxy found or something like that. And they were trying to figure out, you know, you know, I wonder what it is, what's it mean? What's what's the purpose of everything? And the third panel was just a big 42 in space. And I was which is a hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy reference. Don't expect everyone to get it, but anyone who did get it. Well know that I went deep on that one and and hopefully, you know, earned my my street cred on on on the on that little one there. So there is actually a lot of
Alex G: I promise you.
David: quite a bit of that.
Alex G: I promise you it's it it's scratching an itch, particularly as my and sp specifically lately. Like I sit down, I'm I'm such a dad now. I watch YouTube right before bed, right? It's at one AM. I'm I
David: yeah.
Alex G: shouldn't be up at one AM and one AM watching YouTube. And I'm I'm embarrassed to admit this, but last night I started it and I was like, I'm shot I'm just gonna stop here. But why we can't like dig down to the earth's mantle and just like how far we can actually go down. So this is the nerd them that I go down and I'm like, yeah, we'll figure this out at some point. So I
David: I love that. That makes total sense. That's a question Mike would ask in Intelligent Life. No, that makes total sense to me. Mike would ask that. He would ask the exactly that question. He would be the
Alex G: I've got to watch this tonight now that I'd say this out loud.
David: one to ask that in intelligent life. And Skip would basically be like, I have no idea. What you know, what do you think? And then Mike would have some explanation as to why that probably is, or maybe what would be found there, or something like that. That's you know, like Mordor
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: or something, some Lord of the Rings reference, some random thing. So Exactly, exactly.
Alex G: Yeah, Sauron's gonna be waiting for you down there or something. So before I move into Legend of Bill, because I do want to give Legend of Bill its flowers, it's and that's it's probably I'm a bigger fan of Legend of Bill than I am Intelligent Life, even though I'm equally a fan of both, right? Almost equally a fan of both. Really quickly,
David: Have you now?
Alex G: Grydo, you know, so which character just a quick rapid fire, which character would be the most insufferable fan of these of these franchises? So Star Trek.
David: Which character in Intelligent Life?
Alex G: In an intelligent life, yeah.
David: Mike for with the Star Trek. Yeah. Mike would be the inseparable fan of all things. He would be the one that would drive everyone nuts. He would be the one that would hyperfocus. it's just It would be Mike. Ask away.
Alex G: For sure. It's this is basically basically this is a list of mic Yeah, this is just a list of mic anime.
David: Mike. Maybe Gwen though.
Alex G: Mike as well. All right.
David: Gwen Gwen likes the anime. She likes to cosplay some of the anime characters, which she has. So you know, actually They'd probably t be toe to toe on that one. Gwen's
Alex G: Marvel?
David: got her geeky side. Marvel, Gwen, actually. Yeah?
Alex G: Mm. who's that? DC?
David: DC I would also say you know what? I would say Skip, actually. Interestingly. He likes more the that classic vintage thing. Yeah, he likes more of the classic vintage comic strip,
Alex G: You what? Skip does seem like it does seem like
David: the the bright colored stuff. He's cosplayed
Alex G: Star Wars.
David: his Shazam, you know. Star Wars Mike, definitely.
Alex G: Doctor Who I feel like is gonna Mike.
David: Ooh, Doctor Who definitely Mike. Yes. However, I would honestly, I would say equal parts Mike and Skip, because Skip is a big he's a big Doctor Who fan and has had many has consciously had many daydreams visually in the comic strip of he and Gwen, you know, going about in the TARDIS on adventures and such like that.
Alex G: And lastly, gaming.
David: Gaming, that would be Mike, definitely. Mike and Skip both gamers, but Mike being the one that would just not sleep for two days because he's gotta finish it. You know, like I'm really I'm on this Warhammer kick and it's not gonna stop until it's done, you know, something like that.
Alex G: Are you on a Warhammer kick? Okay. I was gonna say, do not,
David: No. No. But
Alex G: don't, don't go, don't go down that well. I'm just gonna give you that FYI. Don't do it to yourself. Don't do it to yourself.
David: That's hilarious. No, if I start, I won't stop. And I like sleep, so I'll I'll
Alex G: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: I can that's the beauty of intelligent life is I can live these things out through the characters without having to to go
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: to go that deep on my own. And I have
Alex G: Yeah, yeah.
David: and I can. So yeah.
Alex G: it's a th yeah, Warham is a deep one. I I'm you know what? I'm j I'll just I'll just stop there because we'll go we'll spend all time
David: Yeah it is. Nah, it's got all kinds of layers to it. That lore is deep. I know exactly what you're talking about. You know what? We're gonna pull
Alex G: But
David: we're gonna have an intervention and pull away from the Warhammer just for you, just so we don't fall down that slippery rabbit hole. It goes deep. See? And see those wheels turning.
Alex G: it's one. It's a good it's such a such a good role. Good good holding it on and I should say. But any but but but segueing Legend of Bill.
David: Yeah.
Alex G: Segwaying on topic, right? Keep it here. Legend of Bill. It's a
David: Yes. Yeah.
Alex G: that's a completely different sandbox from Intelligent Life, from Garfield, obviously the the the the trek life, et cetera. Where did Bill come from?
David: Yeah. Bill came from my my childhood of making comics with a couple of friends in elementary school. This spawned into middle school and then a little bit of high school where we would just it was just classic, you know, like twelve sheets of copy paper, fold them over, staple them down the middle, make comics. And we would pass them to each other. I should note, by the way, the names for my characters came from those two guys, Mike and Skip. who I made those comics
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: with. and I don't I I'm not in contact with them at this point in adulthood, but those names stuck with me because we would make comics together. And so those those names I attached to the characters when I was a kid for intelligent life, i.e. Skip and Mike the Dog, the alien dog. But Legend of Bill was born out of those old those old ideas of they were usually ninja comics and then they would morph into kind of D D type comics. I mean When I was a kid, that's when DD came out, and it was huge and wild. And got my hands on the first Red Box, by the way, and eventually became friends with Larry Elmore, the the artist who did the original Red Box art and had him sign it, which was really cool. Big geek moment for me. Anyway, so Legend of Bill was born out of out of that kind of stuff, and that stuff that I just enjoyed so much, simultaneous with, born out of my love of honestly. Old 80s action cartoons. And you know, and a lot of
Alex G: Ha ha.
David: the the the Hanna Barbera cartoons, the action cartoons that had a little bit more of a goofy bent to them. So so Legend of Bill was born out of both of those things. And the the DNA for that is is still there. You know, when it I mean I often when I s write and draw Legend of Bill, I almost see it in an animated kind of way. And it has a it just has kind of for me kind of an old Kind of an old eighties action cartoon feel that's just gooberish and and silly and fun and yet has these moments that that get kind of serious and you know, like there's this whole secret background to Bill that even I don't e know what it's about. I should probably know that you would think. But but it's fun because not knowing it has actually inspired a lot of writing. So anyway, I'm kind of going on a little bit, but that's what that's born out of.
Alex G: No, it's okay. It's it and this is the this is the beautiful magic of one of the podcasting and going down into lore, like we talked about at the beginning of this whole thing while offline,
David: It's yeah.
Alex G: I just say. But one of the things about Bill that's really, really funny, right, is that he's the funny idea anyway, is that he's a he's an accountant that that turned barbarian, right? Or basically escaping
David: A terrible one. Right.
Alex G: an accounting job, I should say.
David: Yes.
Alex G: that Mundaness versus like the fantasy contrast, et cetera. Was that always there from the beginning or was that something that came in as you were thinking about how to add to build?
David: It was that was always there. I mean, just in terms of Bill, yes, living a mundane, quiet life and being utterly bored with it and wanting adventure. It being no more complex than that. Just him wanting, I want adventure, I want to be a barbarian. He knows nothing about actually being a barbarian. He's the most unbarbaric person ever, but he wants to be a barbarian. Sure.
Alex G: Funny that Masters of the Universe I'm sorry. Sorry for a second. It's funny that Masters of the Universe just kinda ripped Bill out, right? All of a sudden He-Man was in an accounting, he was in an office and just went back. I sidebar there for a second. Sorry. I didn't made it catch up. Interesting. We might have we might have to send a letter somewhere and just say, hey, this is this is an interesting concept.
David: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. No, that's interesting now. We might have to. I I I wager my my yeah. absolutely. I wager my my my my odds of winning that one are d astronomically high. I'm gonna call them today, you know, just hey, listen, you know what? I mean, this sort of when I was a kid, what are you doing? But
Alex G: Yeah, yeah.
David: I mean like when I was a kid when I actually made it created Bill, he was in school and he was just bored. you know, so When when I actually fleshed Legend of Bill out, which was two thousand eight when I launched it on my own website, the accountant that's when the accountant thing truly came to me. Something I was just trying to come up with something that was the opposite for him. The opposite of the character of Bill. Bill would he was he would make a terrible accountant, so that made zero sense. And also the opposite of his his view of what adventure would look like, which even when he's adventuring, that doesn't look like the the dreamy thing that he has in his mind. He sees himself as this glorious, you know, almost cosplaying as a glorious superhero kind of character. And he's just a goober who gets himself into jams. But yeah, so and then of course only recently this was surprising to me. It was revealed to me and just the writing that Bill was actually the janitor at the castle where he worked as an accountant. He just did the account accountant part for free. And it it just made no sense. It was ridiculous. And so yeah. He didn't get paid to do the accounting thing, but he did it. But they did pay him to do this thing called, in his words, quote, janitor. And he was like, ew. So he just wanted out of all that mundane
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: stuff and he wanted to go adventure. He wanted to go travel around and you know, be a barbarian and he has no idea how to do that. That's to me, for some reason, utterly hilarious. So
Alex G: I just I was you stole it right out of I was going right in there. So like he's supposed to be this heroic archetype, but he's Bill. Right? And so And so
David: He's Bill. He's Bill.
Alex G: like what what is it about that incompetence, I guess, that makes it makes him so lovable?
David: You know, it's funny, I think because he's I mean, he's he comes off as a complete moron, but the truth is, I mean, there's backstory that's that's slowly fleshing out that reveals a bit that he may not necessarily be that. And there could be a reason for his being that way. But he has just a very I think just a very innocent view of of the world. And to me, Bill's he's a lot like Mike in intelligent life to me. Just Bill has a very not worldly view. you know, I mean, he's he's sort of like a kid that grew up in a small village and doesn't really know much about anything outside of that village and has views of what it must be like, you know, high adventure and blah, blah, blah. And he doesn't really know. And he's he's got kind of a simple innocent view of things. And there's something about that that's appealing to me. He's he's very much like a kid. and
Alex G: Yeah.
David: he gets exc you know, he gets excitable about simple things or silly things. And I don't know, I like that quality. It he kinda brings the kid out out in me when writing him. And it makes it fun for the Dark Queen Veshiva, Princess Gina, and Frank to play off of him and just, you know, everything from rolling their eyes to protecting him to just calling him out, like, what in the world are you doing? And he goes into like kind of almost Ren and Stimpy style mode with a big cheesy smile and he's doing this thing because, you know, I don't know. So The fun innocence about Bill is is a big appealing thing to me.
Alex G: Well and then you gave him Frank. Like you just you just mentioned Frank. Did you did you always knew
David: Yes, which is his straight man.
Alex G: Yeah, did you always know he needed a sidekick? Or it was like an immediate thing.
David: yeah. yeah. absolutely, yes. Frank the the straight shooter, little sidekick who is a lot smarter than Bill is and has a broader view of things, of the world and understands things more. The perfect the perfect straight man for Bill. K tries to keep him in line, fails very often, but he's his his little protector and a lot more powerful than he seems.
Alex G: All right, so wrapping up Legend Bill here a little bit. If Bill let's say he met the cast of intelligent life, who survives that encounter?
David: that's good. Hmm. I think Gwen would actually survive that encounter because she would she's the one that would not put up with with anything. And she probably wouldn't she would be the one to punch Bill or something, but she wouldn't punch Bill because she would be able to see that he's just he's just a big goober. So she would basically finger wag at him and and tell him, you know, kind of mother him a little bit probably and he'd probably love that. So yeah, I think Gwen would be the the big survivor there. She'd probably be the big survivor in intelligent life in general.
Alex G: Probably altogether. Well, I don't discount Barry, I guess. Yeah, no, no Gwen, yeah, Gwen
David: Yeah, but
Alex G: for sure.
David: Barry yeah, he's got the physical attributes to take care of himself, but Gwen
Alex G: Yeah.
David: could hold her own against against Barry easily because she's she's tough, but she also has she's got the brain power and the mouth to go with it to just put someone in their place. She would cut Barry down in about five words and make him cry, probably. Yeah. So she would do that with Bill. She would just mother Bill and f wag her finger at him, and Bill would tuck his tail between his legs and trot off and do the thing that she told him to do, probably.
Alex G: Well of course. Well David, this this is one
David: Things I've never thought about. That's that was great. It was a great question.
Alex G: that's been amazing. but before we wrap here, I do I do I guess want to bring it bring it back a little bit, right? Because you've been working on or you've had the chance to work on characters that have inspired, you know, what generations of fans. We're talking about Garfield, obviously part of the team on Blondie. and and obviously building characters in worlds that are completely your own.
David: Yeah.
Alex G: what part of cartooning still feels I guess magical to you?
David: Well, the simplistic answer would be all of it, but to be super specific, I think the magical part with my with my own comics would probably be the writing. because there's always a lot of surprise and there's endless novelty in making comics to me. Charles Schultz says something something like making a comic strip is doing the same thing every day without repeating yourself. Something like that. And and that really is true to me. Like there's just endless novelty. So writing in terms of, you know, what are the characters in Intelligent Life going to be doing this week? what are Bill and his friends going to be doing this week? that is pretty magical to me because the idea again that today I'm sitting and looking through a D D module, you know, just for inspiration just because it's fun. And then suddenly I'm reading more and more of it and I've lost track of what it is that I'm doing, but it still feeds into inspiration. That's pretty magical. That's pretty fun. With Blondie, the magic because I'm given scripts and I I draw for Blondie, honestly is is drawing that comic strip. I mean, those juicy lines and and staging the characters and being part of this super long, delicious legacy that is Blondie and all the amazing artists that that came before. The magic for me in that is just being part of the legacy and physically drawing the comic strip because it's just It's fun. I don't know how to say it. So different different kinds of magic. But all my
Alex G: Well are you those are great answers one. are you still do you still find yourself chasing something artistically?
David: my painting, I would probably say. I'm constantly sketching
Alex G: Okay.
David: in my sketchbook and coming up with ideas and thoughts. So what I do my off time type stuff that I chase artistically is really just just personal stuff that isn't cartooning. It's more fine art type stuff and you know, sketching a face from an old classic painting or something, or reading about, you know, Willem De Cooning or something, which I've been doing lately, or just just putting paint to canvas and such. So that's something that That I chase more on a just on a personal, on a personal scale, just because it's it's so pleasing to me and I enjoy it so much. It's relaxing, dials me down.
Alex G: Good. And I guess again, before before we cut out of here, you know, speaking specifically about Legend of Bill and Intelligent Life, when someone comes across your strips, what do you hope they take away?
David: Fun. I hope they take away that, wow, this is this is fun. This makes me happy. I enjoy it. Or, you know, I don't need to think too deeply on it so much if they were to encounter it. I would hope that they would think they were written and drawn reasonably well, enough to make them want to read to read some more and feel a sense of of escape and fun. Especi especially with Legend of Bill just being A serialized fantasy. Fun.
Alex G: that's that's that's great. That that
David: Yeah.
Alex G: yeah. I'll that's a perfect answer. That's
David: That that would be it.
Alex G: a perfect answer. Well, Dave, again, thank you so much for taking the time to sit here, walk us through your
David: Thank you.
Alex G: worlds. obviously everything that you've done to the cartooning c for the cartooning industry. thanks for hanging out here on Inside the Kingdom and for giving us a look, I guess,
David: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Alex G: behind the scenes at all of these different worlds. for fans that have joined and are still here, of course, one, like and subscribe, share. that's how we find more like-minded individuals and fans of this medium. you can read David's Intelligent Life and Legend of Build on Comics Kingdom today and Blondie for that matter on Comics Kingdom.
David: And what?
Alex G: And keep following Inside the Kingdom for more conversations with cartoonists and creators behind the comics that we have here. So thanks for listening.
David: Hello.
Alex G: life. Hello, David. David is a creative intelligent life and legend of Bill, and he's also part of the team behind Blondie. But his career goes quite a bit further than that with work across Garfield, Star Trek, Popeye, Flash Gordon, and plenty more. What I really want to talk about today, though, is how he balances the balance between creating something completely your own, Dave, and stepping into these enormous comic worlds like a flash course, et cetera, that already means something to generations of readers. So, Dave, welcome to Inside the Kingdom.
David: Thank you, Alex. Nice to be here. Hello.
Alex G: Yeah, this is I kind of say this to to just about everyone with these are long overdue and I really mean it. We have such a roster of cartoonists here at King that I think Inside the Kingdom was really born out of that. The idea that we want to showcase that roster and the work behind it. And so I'm really happy that you're joining us today. we were at Col
David: Yeah, me too.
Alex G: we were in Columbus, Ohio a few weeks ago, had a great time out
David: Yeah.
Alex G: there, and it was just naturally segued into let's get on let's get on camera and let's start talking here. So how have you been?
David: Exactly. And I'm glad we did. I've been doing well. Been doing well. I've been recovering from the amazing National Cartoonist Society convention that was last week. Seeing all those cartoonists was amazing. You know, editors, cartoonists, the whole thing. What a what a great time. It's so fantastic. It reminds you that you don't actually live in this little bubble of reality, which a cartoonist can tend to slip into, and that there's a pretty broad spectrum of amazing other cartoonists that live the way you live and Do what you do and set out to do what you are doing now. And and many of us share a very similar story. So I'm still writing high off the magic of it, I would say. And what meeting you, Alex?
Alex G: No, no, no. Thank you. Thank you. I always say I'm the kid in the candy store and it's true, man. I'm I come through I as much as I work in the field, I'm I'm such a fan of everyone and all of the work that you produce and you know, obviously the Rubens and some of the some of the names that were there, like Dave Pilke was in the room, right? Jim Davis, some of the legends
David: Yeah.
Alex G: that that, you know, set the ground for us. I'm gonna talk about Jim a little bit too today. But before we even
David: Yeah, my old boss.
Alex G: go into cartooning, I do have to call out that background because we're in the green room. And I was like, what's it's such a beautiful wallpaper? And I whoa, whoa, whoa, that those are actually frames. And then the this so the multifaceted nature of who David Reddick is, this is your art. Explain
David: Yes.
Alex G: just a bit. This is beautiful.
David: Sure. So these are paintings that are currently in progress. And I have several more over to my left as well. a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I was a gallery painter. So in my twenties, for a couple of years I was in about seven galleries, that included Indianapolis, Florida, Michigan, France, England. and I'm I would classify myself, I suppose, as an abstract expressionist. If I had to give myself a title. So so I did that for a couple of years before my cartooning actually really took off. I was a singer before that, actually. I've never been good at normal jobs. So anyway, pretty much cut out for this kind of thing. So I just I I paint a lot, and lately I've just I don't know, I've been kind of on an extra painting surge. So you're looking at some of it behind me there. That was the short answer.
Alex G: Well, wonderful answer. And it it's it's amazing stuff that you have there. As I'm watching him looking at like, okay, okay. It's it's literally kind of distracted
David: Yeah.
Alex G: as I'm as I as I'm speaking through and thinking through this stuff. It's all it's all beautiful stuff. I have to see the rest of your gallery
David: Yes, yes.
Alex G: because this is this is really good stuff.
David: Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that very much.
Alex G: So let's go into your background a little bit, right? I like to start there.
David: Sure.
Alex G: as I was doing my due diligence, I say just fine online references, your personal portfolios, all that sort of stuff. You say, I I learned that you were an early cartoonist. You set about doing this pretty you're one of those rare individuals that that kind of knew very early you wanted to do this.
David: Yeah.
Alex G: do you actually remember deciding I want to be a cartoonist?
David: yeah, I remember I remember I remember it vividly. Sorry, I tripped up because it's just like, yeah, I do. here, you know what, Alex? Let me tell you about it. so it began when I was five and I was in kindergarten.
Alex G: Yeah.
David: The teacher the teacher said, Okay, kids, time to finger paint. She put out some red paint, some blue paint, told us to have at it. being the kid that I was, I was curious, well That's boring. What would happen if I were to mix the red and the blue together? So I did, mixed it up. It turned purple and complete, absolute magic, and it stunned me. On that at that very same time. So that was one part of it where art became something magical to me. It was just like, wait, what? And I needed to know more. I I wanted to know more about this. I also got in total trouble, by the way. And I thought it was absolutely worth it, you know. And Not to be confused when I would break my crowns and throw that throw them at other kids, but that's a different story. So anyway, right around that same time, five years old, I got my first peanuts collection, which was which was amazing. And I remember that so vividly. On the back of that, on those old paperbacks, I mean they're like dime store paperback type books, was a picture of Charles Schultz, and he was wearing this turtleneck and this cardigan and these. Corduroy pants and loafers look so comfortable. And I was I was thinking, a human being that can do this. Like somebody did this and they he drew this. My curiosity went off the charts. I had first of all, I had to know more. Second of all, I immediately began to dream of doing exactly that. I mean, I couldn't think of anything else I would rather do at that time and now than make comic strips and and draw my own characters and my own worlds. And so I s I set about collecting all the Peanuts collections, all the Garfield collections, et cetera, et cetera. And just dreaming of it from the age of five. I mean, being very, very, I mean, super, very tunnel visioned on it. And did lots of other things in between it happening, but I was always working on becoming a cartoonist. I mean, it was always at the forefront of my thoughts, no matter what I was doing. And so I every single day I never take it for granted. I feel incredibly fortunate to be doing exactly the thing I set out to do when I was five.
Alex G: So I guess it sounds like Peanuts unlocked that creative aspect or that dream for you.
David: Yeah, yes, very much so. Very much so. Just I mean, it was just everything. I I'm just thinking about that book. The smell of that that pulpy paper. I had silly putty. You could stick it on those books because it was just black and white
Alex G: Yeah.
David: ink. You could stick it on the ink and it would come off on the silly putty and stretch it out. I mean, just the whole thing. I tore that book up. And and of course all the other books after that. I mean, I colored them. Again, they in black and white. And, you know, peanuts, the style is nice and simple and clean. But I was amazed at how I mean this entire world was fleshed out on these simple panels. I mean, it blew me away. It still blows me away. I mean, just with an ink pen and paper, I could practically smell the spring air when Snoopy's sitting on top of his doghouse, you know, doing his thing or whatever, or Charlie Brown chasing the football or trying to kick it, et cetera, et cetera. That definitely unlocked it unlocked something magical in tandem completely. with the whole kindergarten finger paint debacle.
Alex G: Is it true that you wrote Charles Schultz asking how to be a cartoonist?
David: I did. I sure did, yeah. I sure did. Wrote him and I I got I asked, I had read something somewhere in some book, like, you know, big cartoonists and you know, they might send form letters. And so I I asked my letter was annoyingly specific in terms of questions, and I was like, this'll really get him. Only Charles Schultz. I mean, because I had read quite a bit about him. I did this with Jim Davis as well at the age of thirteen for the record. Same thing. So with Charles Schultz. Wrote this very pointed, specifically question questioning letter about, you know, very particular things that I figured even if he had an assistant or something else, they're not going to know this. Only Charles Schultz would know this. I was a kid. And I got a letter answering every single question, thanking me for it. And Charles Schultz's biggest advice, this was huge for me. His biggest advice was: don't, I mean, this is what he said. He said, don't follow. Don't follow a lesser path with cartooning. pay attention to the classics, the classic cartoonists that came even before me. That's where you need to get your your learning from. And so he inspired me to then seek out
Alex G: Really?
David: cartoonists like George Harriman and and Cliff Starrett and, you know, Polly and her pals, a bunch of classics. I grew up in an antique shop, so it made it a little bit easy because we had piles of old newspapers that went all the way back to around 1910. And I would just go through all of that stuff, mimicking a lot of those old styles. I took what he sent me very seriously. So yeah.
Alex G: Did you ever get did you give it a chance to meet Charles or or you know parlay with him?
David: No. No. Always wanted to, never never had any communication with them again there thereafter. But however,
Alex G: okay.
David: I did with one Jim Davis. and I have to tell this story just in to follow it up with the the peanuts one because it cracks me up. Thirteen years old. I loved Garfield, had a couple of collections at that point, and I had all these ideas for Garfield and like I don't know, like some weird 13-year-old kid who thought he knew everything. I drew him four pages of Garfield ideas, and of course, hand wrote a
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: letter, in addition, on how to make Garfield even funnier, which cracks me up. And I mean, I was really serious about this. You know, sealed it up, mailed it, sent it off in the mail, got a little letter back from him. I still, I still have both of those letters. a letter back from him thanking me for for my ideas and and for Taking Garfield so seriously. And it was a bit short. had a little sketch on it, made me happy. And I was always a little disappointed. I I felt, you know, I don't think he really took me seriously. He's probably not going to use my amazing ideas. You know, the the mind of a 13-year-old. And fast forward, I'm 32, and and that's when I was hired to actually write for Garfield and work for Garfield with Jim, sitting in his office, and not a day went by where I didn't think about that letter. And I was like, yes. No, I'm kidding. But
Alex G: Did you ever did you ever bring it up? Then you say, Hey
David: I totally did. I showed him the letter that I got back. You know, I mean, I sure did. I I brought it up. He he thought it was hilarious. Jim's got a great sense of humor and he was just fantastic work to work with. And we got a pretty good laugh out of that. So yeah. And I got to see it
Alex G: So it's that
David: was it was magical to see other people's letters continuously to come in continue to come in when I was working there and and he would read every one and answer them. It was it was pretty fantastic. What were you going to say?
Alex G: I was gonna say, did five year old you know that you were putting together podcast material as well later on in
David: I did not know. I had no idea. I had no idea. But but now I can look back and give that five year old a little hug and say, you know what, kid, we did it. Good job. I think everyone should do that.
Alex G: So in addition to obviously enterprising at five and knowing that you're gonna be a cartoonist as you in you know when you grew up or wanted to be,
David: Wanted to be. Hoped. Yeah.
Alex G: you're also self-taught, correct? Largely self taught.
David: Yes. Yes. So when I was in high school I I earned a special scholarship to attend the Heron School of Art in Indianapolis. I did that throughout all of high school for four years. So I actually accrued a year's worth of of college just from doing that. but from from high school I went straight to the Navy. So basically self taught on I would say self taught on everything. So yeah, just just
Alex G: was
David: a lot of research and a lot of library time. Still do that.
Alex G: What was that navy experience like?
David: It was good. I I was a cryptologist in in navy intelligence. So it was it was most interesting and that's as much as I'm allowed to say.
Alex G: It matches. That matches. That matches. That actually it goes well.
David: Let's see. Navy intelligence cryptologist cartoonist. Hmm. One
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: of these things is not like the other. So
Alex G: So as you were going through progressing, obviously, self-taught, you knew you have the the Schultz reference, the Jim Davis, obviously, input Harriman going through all this. Your early styles was it was it literally just mimicking older cartoons? when did you branch
David: yes.
Alex G: out into just making your your own distinct style? Because David Reddick does have a distinct style.
David: thank you. And I love that style actually. I mean, like it just it just comes out by accident and it makes me really happy because as a cartoonist you spend so many years wanting a style and wondering what
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: it's gonna wind up looking like. So yes, to answer your question, in those in the early days, I mean I would say all the way up even in into my my early twenties, I was continuously mimicking other styles, even animation. I was a huge fan of really old like Disney and Warner Brothers animation, old Fleischer cartoons, black and white stuff. so constantly mimicking that kind of stuff. And I mean, it's through that, it's through that mimicking that you don't even realize how much you're learning and how much you're developing a style. How much things appealed to you and spoke to you. I mean, Hanna Bar Hanna Barbera cartoons were huge for me as well. That's at probably one of the biggest influences on my cartooning style. I mean, when I look at Legend of Bill, I can, I can actually see it. you know. Yeah,
Alex G: I see a lot of yogi. I see a lot of yogi.
David: I mean, you know, it just it's interesting how much of an effect those old Hanna Barbera cartoons had on me. And I loved them. I mean, I just love that stuff. So it was it was in it was in my twenties at some point that that's when it was in my twenties that I started selling single panel cartoons to newspapers, to like Woman's World magazine and sc New York Times up front and scholastic and such like that. And so I was really trying to hone a classic single panel cartoon style, kind of New Yorker ish. and it's funny because through my twenties, most of my twenties, I didn't think I I used to think, I've got what it takes to do single panel cartoons, but I don't think I could I don't think I've got what it takes to do comic strips, you know. Not that I didn't believe in myself entirely. It was just it seemed daunting and I was I was really dialed in on the single panel stuff. And Until until I was it. Until suddenly I wanted more space. But I love I love the parameters of of comics, whether it's a single panel or three panel, four panel, whatever. I love the the restrictions that come with it because you're forced you're forced to take out a lot of stuff and keep it on point, as it were, in a certain kind of way. That's very appealing to me. There's an order to it. And I would say my my style really, really blossomed when I had gotten hired to work. For Garfield. I actually freelanced that for a while and then Jim hired me full-time and brought me out to the studio, where I worked for several years. But it was when I sold a comic strip idea to CBS and Paramount Pictures start for the Star Trek franchise, for their for the main website, Star Trek.com. And I had an idea, it was a crazy idea, and I was like, you know what? I've got this idea, this super
Alex G: Yeah.
David: predated the Big Bang Theory, by the way. I had you know, I had this idea of fans of Star Trek, a super fan, an in-between super fan, and and a girl who knew nothing about Star Trek whatsoever, all best friends, what would that be like? And I started writing comic strips and drawing them. That's where my style started happening, particularly when I sent in that submission to the editor. Didn't hear a thing. About two months went by and I was like, you know, I mean you win some, you lose some. I had sent stuff to syndicates already, such like that. And I I got got a response from them and they said that they loved the idea and could I do more, which I did, and then they they hired me to do three times a week a comic strip called The Trek Life for Star Trek.com, which spawned into the UK's R OK Media, IDW Publishing, Tokyo Pop, Star Trek magazine. It was it was all over the place. It was optioned as an animated series right before the writer's strike in 2007, which
Alex G: Mm.
David: Canceled out CBS Interactive and canceled out my comic strip. But anyway, it was during the Trek Life that my style really that's when it really emerged, where I was I was consistently doing a comic strip. That was a long answer, but there you have it. And it just went from there.
Alex G: No, no, no. But it's a wonderful answer. I mean, we w we were just sidebaring again, green room stuff where we're talking about the wonder of comics and how, you know, ninety percent of comics, well, long form and in where and long running franchises is just unraveling storylines and adding stuff to it. And so I'm not, you it's core to what we're talking about here. And obviously, I don't want to lose sight of Garfield because I am gonna ask you a question there, but this just immediately popped out to me
David: Sure.
Alex G: as you were going through Star Trek or Star Track Life, I should say. This is the question I was gonna ask about intelligent life. Is this the nexus of intelligent life? Like was this was this planting the seed or the DNA for what eventually became that?
David: Absolutely. yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. With intelligent life, so the Trek Life was was long gone and with intellig I mean for for years. And I still loved that concept. And so those characters, they didn't actually technically morph into the into intelligent life, but intelligent life actually morphed from an old idea I created when I was a kid of of a guy named
Alex G: Yeah.
David: Skip with Elvis hair, because I was an Elvis fan when I was a kid. And an alien dog named Mike and their interactions and trying to keep Mike, you know, looking like a dog and not giving away who he was. That's what actually spawned into intelligent life. But the Trek Life, the the kind of that kind of humor definitely it was the seeds were planted there in terms of just fandom in general for intelligent life on on a variety of pop culture and and just geeky, nerdy things that I myself tend to like. And have an unusual level of knowledge about. So I put it put it into characters in the comic. And in the comic, the guy with his alien dog turned into Skip and Mike best pals and and of course Gwen and Barry as well. So it took on a life of its own. But yeah. I think that just happens though. I mean, all the things that you do over the course of time. I mean, Legend of Bill was something I created when I was a kid. I didn't call it Legend of Bill, it was something else. I don't even rem remember what it was called. But
Alex G: Life of Bill
David: It might have been life a phil, maybe it was. That's
Alex G: That's it.
David: right. You d let's go with that. You know, I'm gonna thank you, Alex. I'm
Alex G: Yeah.
David: glad I thought of that. But anyway, you know, so
Alex G: Ha ha.
David: these things they stick with you and they take take on different they they can look differently, they take on different forms. And sometimes they just stick to their core material that you came up with ages ago. So it's just one of the beauties and fun things about cartooning. It's sort of a re a complete refusal to to grow up entirely. I mean, I'm I'm not kidding because when I work, let's say on Legend of Bill, when I'm write just writing it. Today I was writing Legend of Bill comics, and I mean, I'm going through old DD manuals, you know, just kind of getting ideas, thinking about it, because there's a lot of DD-esque stuff in Legend of Bill for me. And I was like,
Alex G: Yeah. Yeah.
David: this is so Fun. I mean, this is the kind of stuff I was doing when I was a kid. I mean, seriously, when I was 12 years old, pouring through, you know, fantasy or science fiction type stuff and gleaning a little of this, a little bit of that. And what if I had characters that did this thing and did that thing or whatever, or went on adventures and it's it's fun. It's you don't ever really grow out of a a certain part of yourself. So to me, cartooning and making comics is this magical way of holding on to it to a part of yourself. That is we all we can all lose. We can all lose so many parts of ourselves over time. You know, we can look back and think, you know, what happened to to that version of me? Or, you know, where where did he go or something? But there's this one part that it's like he's all he, as part of myself, he's always been here, you know, like, man, it's good to have you around. That kind of stuff. It's a little
Alex G: Yeah, don't get me started. We can go we can go down that whole road of adulting, right? And what that necess what that means or
David: yeah.
Alex G: doesn't mean, et cetera. I have close friends. They tell me I'm gonna live to like a hundred and ten because, you know, that's not a day that I stress in my life because of what I do for a living, or you what, et cetera, et cetera. Which isn't
David: Exactly.
Alex G: true, which isn't true at all, right? But needless to say, you're right. You know, I when I say kid in a candy store, I share that same sentiment. Like this is there is a part of me here and a part of cartoonists and a part of this industry, I think, that is that, that you lose that you keep and maintain from childhood.
David: Yeah, yeah.
Alex G: And I think if I'm if I heard this correctly, some of that formed itself or really formed itself when you when you started more so on the professional side with Garfield. So I don't want to lose sight
David: Yeah.
Alex G: of just that, but I do want to go into intelligent life and life of Bill. Legend of Bill. I don't know, life of Bill. I don't get that out of my some life life of Bill, Legend of Bill.
David: Yeah, I I like that life of Bill. I'm gonna remember that.
Alex G: Yeah, the life of Bill, right? But Legend of Bill. But I wanna I I guess I wanna I wanna unpack that a little bit more, right? So like when you were working with Jim And you mentioned this a little bit ago about liking that the the the constraints of a comic strip.
David: Mm-hmm.
Alex G: was that w well, basically a flat out question. What did Jim teach you about constructing comic strips?
David: Setup, twist, punch. Setup, twist, punch. Setup, twist, punch. That was one of the biggest things that he taught me was keep it simple, keep it easy, don't make readers work for it. Let them have fun with it and relate to it and enjoy it. And, you know, and I don't always accomplish that. I mean, I don't think anybody always accomplishes that, but that was a
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: biggie. But also, he he did actually teach me quite a bit. I mean, in terms of, you know, listen to your readers. don't ever think that you know more than your readers. don't ever make them think that you know more than more than than them. communicate with them and and just have fun with it. I mean, Jim was very much about having fun. I mean, have fun with this. This is fun. It's supposed to be fun and enjoyable. It's also work. I there's an old Picasso quote, something about inspiration happens, but it has to find you working, I think is I think is the quote. And I would say that kind of tracks with a lot of what Jim was at was about and what I learned from him, which was you can have fun with this, but it's also work and you have to work at it and you have to keep, keep quality and keep maintain that and
Alex G: Right.
David: take it seriously while also having fun with it. And so I learned a lot of the business side and a lot of just like logistics from Jim as well, just in terms of how to take doing this seriously in a certain kind of way. Almost almost
Alex G: Right.
David: in a logistics data driven kind of way combined with creative freewheeling, you know, pie in the sky way, which doesn't at all track with being a cryptologist and a cartoonist. So, you know, it worked for me and and I liked it. So, you know, those are some of the things I learned.
Alex G: I'd imagine he taught you well not even him. I think working on a franchise like that probably taught you a lot about what not to do.
David: yeah, sure.
Alex G: things. Does working or did working on a character like that or any characters like that ilk or things that have this long send company? We mentioned Flash, we mentioned Papa, working on on these sort of franchises, did they instill more discipline in in what you do?
David: yes, absolutely. And the truth is, I mean, quite honestly, yes. So the short answer is absolutely instilled more discipline. And I have to say, that is where the magic of working on Blondie comes in for me. That's it's on Blondie and working with Dean Young that I have really learned so much about just maintaining high quality. Maintaining the discipline of doing it because drawing Blondie, which is what I do. I'm I'm an assistant artist to John Marshall on Blondie. And I work with a great team. I mean, you've got Dean Young and his daughters Dana and Dion. Wonderful team. Everyone's like family. Love it. And that is such such a high-quality comic in terms of of art. And
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: of course, Dean's writing is is amazing on it. and but You really there was discipline with Gerfield, but I wore quite a few hats with Gurfield as well. I started out writing for the comic strip and then that morphed into working on licensing, working on all
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: things digital, running social media, et cetera. And even doing some stuff on animation with Glenn Zimmerman, the amazing animator that worked there. But with Blondie, it's such a particular style and the the quality is so high, it it demands your your absolute, complete, and full attention and and discipline. And I mean I kind of took that from Garfield to Blondie, but it's true. It's on Blondie that I I think I've truly as a cartoonist blossomed the most in terms of I mean, everything from drawing skill to to to discipline. Yeah. So that was a little bit of a wonky answer, but hopefully that answered that.
Alex G: No, no, but I I mean it all of this I think is really information in my mind of how you got to intelligent life, right? And so one thing I've noticed about intelligent life, and it it really just came together in Columbus, I'll honest, is I've
David: Yeah, no, that's
Alex G: noticed the characters, and I think I'm hearing it here as well, the characters seem to be really divided versions of you.
David: Yes. Yeah, totally. Absolutely.
Alex G: And this is where you get to correct me and the audience. So you'd be like, no, that's not true at all. These are all just manifestations of nonsense I've seen all over the world, right? But not me at all. So but
David: Right. No.
Alex G: so how much let's go there. How much of you is divided amongst those characters? How much of you is Skip? How much of you is you know, Barry?
David: Okay, th that's a great question. I'm gonna answer this very specifically. So Skip is a part of me that is he's probably I'm probably closest to Skip. Skip is often kind of just he's sort of the nucleus of of the group and kind of the straight man in many ways. And where the other characters bounce off of him in a certain kind of way. So I think I
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: often I don't consciously think about this when I'm writing and drawing intelligent life. However, I would say that it would be Skip's shoes that I would be sitting in and communicating with the other characters if I were to insert
Alex G: Yeah, yeah.
David: myself into the comic. Many things about Skip are about me, really. Mike is a facet of me that is there. I mean, basically, you know, hyper-focused, kind of obnoxious, fun, goes deep on the things that he loves. you know, just he. That's definitely a part of me that isn't as prominent as maybe more of the straight man skip, but it's totally part of me. And then there are also parts of Mike that I would like to be more like or retain, you know, as it were. Gwen has this straight shooter, very, you know, just no nonsense, you know, the this is how it is, kind of kind of quality that I really respect and like a lot. And that's that's that. is a facet of me, but I think it's something that I admire and I like. So that comes out in Gwen. Barry is absolutely nothing like me at all. And he's the one that I get to he hit it's through his eyes that I get to look at the world differently and see through a different just through through a different prism, a different lens as far as far as that goes. I mean, you know, Barry's the, you know, he's the office playboy, jock, plays fan fantasy football and does all these these things, things that I don't really do. And I don't know a whole lot about, so I get to learn more about those things through Barry and also just kind of watch Barry be Barry. He's often the most fun one to write. I don't know why. Just because he's a little,
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: he's a little unchained as far as the stupid things that he says and does that I like. When I say stupid, I say that lovingly because they're hilarious.
Alex G: Yeah, yeah.
David: But there have been comics early on where Barry showed it surprised me. This is the fun thing about writing comics, is your own characters and your own situations can surprise you. Something that surprised me was that Barry has actually a lot of heart. I discovered through through writing. And I I know that sounds funny to say that I discovered, but it's
Alex G: Yeah.
David: one of the fun things about writing is you discover things that it's almost like you didn't think of think of it. It came to you. The characters spoke it to you in some kind of crazy way, and yet it was you. That's not weird. And I learned that Barry was in the Navy and he ha he's got a lot of heart. He helped he helped a homeless man. dig out from from a hole and get his life together and also try to date his his long lost daughter. I mean, because that's Barry, you know. So, you know,
Alex G: Yeah.
David: even with a heart, he's he's still Barry. But it it made him really, it gave him depth and made him likable extra in a certain kind of way. And each of the characters has has opened up in certain kinds of ways like that to me, where it takes me by surprise and endears them to me even more.
Alex G: So that actually opens up two questions in my mind. One, who's the easiest to write? And secondly, and this is almost the origin part of this, who came first? Or what came first? Did the characters come first, or did the idea of a pop culture nerd, culture, geek, con geek fandom, comic strip come first?
David: Right. So two questions. Number one, Barry is the easiest one to write because he's this is gonna sound dumb and almost double sided, but he's simultaneously s yeah,
Alex G: Well it sounds like you have the most fun writing what you just said. Yep, yep.
David: he's simultaneously simplistic and complex all at the same time, which sounds so dumb to put into words, but but it's funny.
Alex G: Yeah.
David: He's very simplistic in his motivations, I would say, and his his agenda in life, but there's a complex Complexity to him that can that can be surprising. So I think he's probably the easiest one to write. as far as what came first, Skip and Mike, definitely. Skip and Mike back when I was a kid, as just a guy and his alien dog, before they morphed into what they are now. So just the idea came first. That those were the days when I when I made them up, long before I was ever actually doing comics for a living, when I was when I was a kid, when I was much younger. I was constantly getting ideas. I just didn't know how to execute them and how to make them happen. and of course that came with time and and learning. So Skip and Mike came first. Just the drawings, lots of drawings of them, just walking and doing stuff, staring off into space. I don't know, whatever. without as a kid, without the guts to try to like flesh it out very much because I wasn't really
Alex G: Yeah.
David: sure how to do it. They're in was the motivation to go to the library and you know, the school library and find everything on on just comics, cartoons, children's books, Dr. Seuss, et cetera, you know, trying to figure out how did that person do that? You know, how did they draw that? How did they write that? What materials did they use? Et cetera, et cetera.
Alex G: Yeah.
David: Taking deep dives through life. So
Alex G: Why didn't we win at trivia night then, man? It seems like you did all this research and then we only had about
David: I know.
Alex G: two or three questions. You were captain of the team. What happened?
David: I know. And I blew it, but you know which one I did not blow? And I
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: I nailed the blondie question. And you know what? That was my takeaway. It was the one that I smashed out so fast before he finished his sentence. And I was, I just said, blondie. And I was like, Yes.
Alex G: Right.
David: Yes. And so that was a huge win. I consider it. I might have blown it for the team, but it was a personal victory, let me just say. Also, yeah, I don't know I don't know what that's about. I yeah I
Alex G: No, it's okay. We're it it it was that was such a it was one, such an awesome room and it was fun. It was a fun night, but man, the wealth of knowledge that was going through there. It was just blitzing through my mind, like, okay, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah.
David: It was fun. It was. It was so fun. Wow. Tell me about it. I think what I was most impressed with was the occasional table that would hit the button to answer before they even knew the answer and then would
Alex G: Yeah.
David: huddle and come out and have the answer. It was it was amazing. It was so impressive. It's like put a bunch of cartoonists
Alex G: Yeah, yeah, it was really good. It was really good.
David: in a room and yeah, the wealth of knowledge is is amazing. So it was great.
Alex G: That that kind of segues one back into intelligent life, but also you know, trivia pop culture, right? And intelligent life, pop culture, they're ingrained. It's part of what the strip is.
David: Yeah.
Alex G: pop culture moves at the speed of light. So how how did how
David: Yes, it does.
Alex G: is it that you that you navigate writing intelligent life and not and not having it be something disposable?
David: That's a good question. So a lot of the humor is character-based humor with the characters just interacting as they do, where there aren't actual references, and then the references come in randomly. They come in often, but randomly.
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: I I gave up thinking in terms of just because it's so pop culture based. A long time ago I gave up thinking in terms of, okay, this is gonna date itself. I just allow it to do so, almost like it's a time capsule of this is what was going on in twenty twenty-six, you know, or something like that.
Alex G: Smart.
David: so it allows me to just keep up on everything that's happening. I mean everything from, you know, science to, you know, technology, space, movies, TV, you name it, action figures, whatever. So, but I keep the humor more rooted in in character-driven scenarios and and interactions, etc. And then the pop culture side kind of rides the coattails of of that core of it. And I think I feel like that works pretty nicely. And again, just provides a time capsule as far as I mean, I
Alex G: Yeah.
David: can look back at old 2014 intelligent lifes and and there are a lot of references of things that were happening exactly at that time. And it's actually a lot of fun because I can go back and kind of check that out. So that's kind of how I look at it.
Alex G: Are there any references that you refuse to explain?
David: No, I don't think so. I think I I'm pretty willing to touch on anything and have touched on most most things I've wanted to touch on. No, nothing's really off limits to me. it can be fun. I mean, well, okay, there it I don't touch on politics, so I suppose that would be a thing that's off limits. I just I don't have an interest in that. in doing that in in the comic. So I just stay away from that. And you know, that's about it.
Alex G: Well, more so like refuse to explain in the sense that like you'll let the reader or you trust that the reader's gonna understand what's going on. Like you're not even gonna go Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: yes, as far as like pop culture references, et cetera. Yes. yeah. No. Yeah. I I try not to be too explanatory. I just make the assumption what you just said. I just make the assumption the reader is going to get this. And if they don't, they're going to get that it probably makes sense. Or they might even look it up and and say,
Alex G: Ha ha ha
David: who knows? So yeah, I just kind of I just let the reader go with it. So yeah, I mean I did a comic, I don't know, earlier this year. It was it was just skip and mic talking about Essentially the nature of the universe and the meaning of of of all things. And at the very end, it was just I don't know. It had something to do with it was a space, it was some study. It was some scientific study about something in space, a new, you know, galaxy found or something like that. And they were trying to figure out, you know, you know, I wonder what it is, what's it mean? What's what's the purpose of everything? And the third panel was just a big 42 in space. And I was which is a hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy reference. Don't expect everyone to get it, but anyone who did get it. Well know that I went deep on that one and and hopefully, you know, earned my my street cred on on on the on that little one there. So there is actually a lot of
Alex G: I promise you.
David: quite a bit of that.
Alex G: I promise you it's it it's scratching an itch, particularly as my and sp specifically lately. Like I sit down, I'm I'm such a dad now. I watch YouTube right before bed, right? It's at one AM. I'm I
David: yeah.
Alex G: shouldn't be up at one AM and one AM watching YouTube. And I'm I'm embarrassed to admit this, but last night I started it and I was like, I'm shot I'm just gonna stop here. But why we can't like dig down to the earth's mantle and just like how far we can actually go down. So this is the nerd them that I go down and I'm like, yeah, we'll figure this out at some point. So I
David: I love that. That makes total sense. That's a question Mike would ask in Intelligent Life. No, that makes total sense to me. Mike would ask that. He would ask the exactly that question. He would be the
Alex G: I've got to watch this tonight now that I'd say this out loud.
David: one to ask that in intelligent life. And Skip would basically be like, I have no idea. What you know, what do you think? And then Mike would have some explanation as to why that probably is, or maybe what would be found there, or something like that. That's you know, like Mordor
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: or something, some Lord of the Rings reference, some random thing. So Exactly, exactly.
Alex G: Yeah, Sauron's gonna be waiting for you down there or something. So before I move into Legend of Bill, because I do want to give Legend of Bill its flowers, it's and that's it's probably I'm a bigger fan of Legend of Bill than I am Intelligent Life, even though I'm equally a fan of both, right? Almost equally a fan of both. Really quickly,
David: Have you now?
Alex G: Grydo, you know, so which character just a quick rapid fire, which character would be the most insufferable fan of these of these franchises? So Star Trek.
David: Which character in Intelligent Life?
Alex G: In an intelligent life, yeah.
David: Mike for with the Star Trek. Yeah. Mike would be the inseparable fan of all things. He would be the one that would drive everyone nuts. He would be the one that would hyperfocus. it's just It would be Mike. Ask away.
Alex G: For sure. It's this is basically basically this is a list of mic Yeah, this is just a list of mic anime.
David: Mike. Maybe Gwen though.
Alex G: Mike as well. All right.
David: Gwen Gwen likes the anime. She likes to cosplay some of the anime characters, which she has. So you know, actually They'd probably t be toe to toe on that one. Gwen's
Alex G: Marvel?
David: got her geeky side. Marvel, Gwen, actually. Yeah?
Alex G: Mm. who's that? DC?
David: DC I would also say you know what? I would say Skip, actually. Interestingly. He likes more the that classic vintage thing. Yeah, he likes more of the classic vintage comic strip,
Alex G: You what? Skip does seem like it does seem like
David: the the bright colored stuff. He's cosplayed
Alex G: Star Wars.
David: his Shazam, you know. Star Wars Mike, definitely.
Alex G: Doctor Who I feel like is gonna Mike.
David: Ooh, Doctor Who definitely Mike. Yes. However, I would honestly, I would say equal parts Mike and Skip, because Skip is a big he's a big Doctor Who fan and has had many has consciously had many daydreams visually in the comic strip of he and Gwen, you know, going about in the TARDIS on adventures and such like that.
Alex G: And lastly, gaming.
David: Gaming, that would be Mike, definitely. Mike and Skip both gamers, but Mike being the one that would just not sleep for two days because he's gotta finish it. You know, like I'm really I'm on this Warhammer kick and it's not gonna stop until it's done, you know, something like that.
Alex G: Are you on a Warhammer kick? Okay. I was gonna say, do not,
David: No. No. But
Alex G: don't, don't go, don't go down that well. I'm just gonna give you that FYI. Don't do it to yourself. Don't do it to yourself.
David: That's hilarious. No, if I start, I won't stop. And I like sleep, so I'll I'll
Alex G: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: I can that's the beauty of intelligent life is I can live these things out through the characters without having to to go
Alex G: Ha ha ha.
David: to go that deep on my own. And I have
Alex G: Yeah, yeah.
David: and I can. So yeah.
Alex G: it's a th yeah, Warham is a deep one. I I'm you know what? I'm j I'll just I'll just stop there because we'll go we'll spend all time
David: Yeah it is. Nah, it's got all kinds of layers to it. That lore is deep. I know exactly what you're talking about. You know what? We're gonna pull
Alex G: But
David: we're gonna have an intervention and pull away from the Warhammer just for you, just so we don't fall down that slippery rabbit hole. It goes deep. See? And see those wheels turning.
Alex G: it's one. It's a good it's such a such a good role. Good good holding it on and I should say. But any but but but segueing Legend of Bill.
David: Yeah.
Alex G: Segwaying on topic, right? Keep it here. Legend of Bill. It's a
David: Yes. Yeah.
Alex G: that's a completely different sandbox from Intelligent Life, from Garfield, obviously the the the the trek life, et cetera. Where did Bill come from?
David: Yeah. Bill came from my my childhood of making comics with a couple of friends in elementary school. This spawned into middle school and then a little bit of high school where we would just it was just classic, you know, like twelve sheets of copy paper, fold them over, staple them down the middle, make comics. And we would pass them to each other. I should note, by the way, the names for my characters came from those two guys, Mike and Skip. who I made those comics
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: with. and I don't I I'm not in contact with them at this point in adulthood, but those names stuck with me because we would make comics together. And so those those names I attached to the characters when I was a kid for intelligent life, i.e. Skip and Mike the Dog, the alien dog. But Legend of Bill was born out of those old those old ideas of they were usually ninja comics and then they would morph into kind of D D type comics. I mean When I was a kid, that's when DD came out, and it was huge and wild. And got my hands on the first Red Box, by the way, and eventually became friends with Larry Elmore, the the artist who did the original Red Box art and had him sign it, which was really cool. Big geek moment for me. Anyway, so Legend of Bill was born out of out of that kind of stuff, and that stuff that I just enjoyed so much, simultaneous with, born out of my love of honestly. Old 80s action cartoons. And you know, and a lot of
Alex G: Ha ha.
David: the the the Hanna Barbera cartoons, the action cartoons that had a little bit more of a goofy bent to them. So so Legend of Bill was born out of both of those things. And the the DNA for that is is still there. You know, when it I mean I often when I s write and draw Legend of Bill, I almost see it in an animated kind of way. And it has a it just has kind of for me kind of an old Kind of an old eighties action cartoon feel that's just gooberish and and silly and fun and yet has these moments that that get kind of serious and you know, like there's this whole secret background to Bill that even I don't e know what it's about. I should probably know that you would think. But but it's fun because not knowing it has actually inspired a lot of writing. So anyway, I'm kind of going on a little bit, but that's what that's born out of.
Alex G: No, it's okay. It's it and this is the this is the beautiful magic of one of the podcasting and going down into lore, like we talked about at the beginning of this whole thing while offline,
David: It's yeah.
Alex G: I just say. But one of the things about Bill that's really, really funny, right, is that he's the funny idea anyway, is that he's a he's an accountant that that turned barbarian, right? Or basically escaping
David: A terrible one. Right.
Alex G: an accounting job, I should say.
David: Yes.
Alex G: that Mundaness versus like the fantasy contrast, et cetera. Was that always there from the beginning or was that something that came in as you were thinking about how to add to build?
David: It was that was always there. I mean, just in terms of Bill, yes, living a mundane, quiet life and being utterly bored with it and wanting adventure. It being no more complex than that. Just him wanting, I want adventure, I want to be a barbarian. He knows nothing about actually being a barbarian. He's the most unbarbaric person ever, but he wants to be a barbarian. Sure.
Alex G: Funny that Masters of the Universe I'm sorry. Sorry for a second. It's funny that Masters of the Universe just kinda ripped Bill out, right? All of a sudden He-Man was in an accounting, he was in an office and just went back. I sidebar there for a second. Sorry. I didn't made it catch up. Interesting. We might have we might have to send a letter somewhere and just say, hey, this is this is an interesting concept.
David: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. No, that's interesting now. We might have to. I I I wager my my yeah. absolutely. I wager my my my my odds of winning that one are d astronomically high. I'm gonna call them today, you know, just hey, listen, you know what? I mean, this sort of when I was a kid, what are you doing? But
Alex G: Yeah, yeah.
David: I mean like when I was a kid when I actually made it created Bill, he was in school and he was just bored. you know, so When when I actually fleshed Legend of Bill out, which was two thousand eight when I launched it on my own website, the accountant that's when the accountant thing truly came to me. Something I was just trying to come up with something that was the opposite for him. The opposite of the character of Bill. Bill would he was he would make a terrible accountant, so that made zero sense. And also the opposite of his his view of what adventure would look like, which even when he's adventuring, that doesn't look like the the dreamy thing that he has in his mind. He sees himself as this glorious, you know, almost cosplaying as a glorious superhero kind of character. And he's just a goober who gets himself into jams. But yeah, so and then of course only recently this was surprising to me. It was revealed to me and just the writing that Bill was actually the janitor at the castle where he worked as an accountant. He just did the account accountant part for free. And it it just made no sense. It was ridiculous. And so yeah. He didn't get paid to do the accounting thing, but he did it. But they did pay him to do this thing called, in his words, quote, janitor. And he was like, ew. So he just wanted out of all that mundane
Alex G: Mm-hmm.
David: stuff and he wanted to go adventure. He wanted to go travel around and you know, be a barbarian and he has no idea how to do that. That's to me, for some reason, utterly hilarious. So
Alex G: I just I was you stole it right out of I was going right in there. So like he's supposed to be this heroic archetype, but he's Bill. Right? And so And so
David: He's Bill. He's Bill.
Alex G: like what what is it about that incompetence, I guess, that makes it makes him so lovable?
David: You know, it's funny, I think because he's I mean, he's he comes off as a complete moron, but the truth is, I mean, there's backstory that's that's slowly fleshing out that reveals a bit that he may not necessarily be that. And there could be a reason for his being that way. But he has just a very I think just a very innocent view of of the world. And to me, Bill's he's a lot like Mike in intelligent life to me. Just Bill has a very not worldly view. you know, I mean, he's he's sort of like a kid that grew up in a small village and doesn't really know much about anything outside of that village and has views of what it must be like, you know, high adventure and blah, blah, blah. And he doesn't really know. And he's he's got kind of a simple innocent view of things. And there's something about that that's appealing to me. He's he's very much like a kid. and
Alex G: Yeah.
David: he gets exc you know, he gets excitable about simple things or silly things. And I don't know, I like that quality. It he kinda brings the kid out out in me when writing him. And it makes it fun for the Dark Queen Veshiva, Princess Gina, and Frank to play off of him and just, you know, everything from rolling their eyes to protecting him to just calling him out, like, what in the world are you doing? And he goes into like kind of almost Ren and Stimpy style mode with a big cheesy smile and he's doing this thing because, you know, I don't know. So The fun innocence about Bill is is a big appealing thing to me.
Alex G: Well and then you gave him Frank. Like you just you just mentioned Frank. Did you did you always knew
David: Yes, which is his straight man.
Alex G: Yeah, did you always know he needed a sidekick? Or it was like an immediate thing.
David: yeah. yeah. absolutely, yes. Frank the the straight shooter, little sidekick who is a lot smarter than Bill is and has a broader view of things, of the world and understands things more. The perfect the perfect straight man for Bill. K tries to keep him in line, fails very often, but he's his his little protector and a lot more powerful than he seems.
Alex G: All right, so wrapping up Legend Bill here a little bit. If Bill let's say he met the cast of intelligent life, who survives that encounter?
David: that's good. Hmm. I think Gwen would actually survive that encounter because she would she's the one that would not put up with with anything. And she probably wouldn't she would be the one to punch Bill or something, but she wouldn't punch Bill because she would be able to see that he's just he's just a big goober. So she would basically finger wag at him and and tell him, you know, kind of mother him a little bit probably and he'd probably love that. So yeah, I think Gwen would be the the big survivor there. She'd probably be the big survivor in intelligent life in general.
Alex G: Probably altogether. Well, I don't discount Barry, I guess. Yeah, no, no Gwen, yeah, Gwen
David: Yeah, but
Alex G: for sure.
David: Barry yeah, he's got the physical attributes to take care of himself, but Gwen
Alex G: Yeah.
David: could hold her own against against Barry easily because she's she's tough, but she also has she's got the brain power and the mouth to go with it to just put someone in their place. She would cut Barry down in about five words and make him cry, probably. Yeah. So she would do that with Bill. She would just mother Bill and f wag her finger at him, and Bill would tuck his tail between his legs and trot off and do the thing that she told him to do, probably.
Alex G: Well of course. Well David, this this is one
David: Things I've never thought about. That's that was great. It was a great question.
Alex G: that's been amazing. but before we wrap here, I do I do I guess want to bring it bring it back a little bit, right? Because you've been working on or you've had the chance to work on characters that have inspired, you know, what generations of fans. We're talking about Garfield, obviously part of the team on Blondie. and and obviously building characters in worlds that are completely your own.
David: Yeah.
Alex G: what part of cartooning still feels I guess magical to you?
David: Well, the simplistic answer would be all of it, but to be super specific, I think the magical part with my with my own comics would probably be the writing. because there's always a lot of surprise and there's endless novelty in making comics to me. Charles Schultz says something something like making a comic strip is doing the same thing every day without repeating yourself. Something like that. And and that really is true to me. Like there's just endless novelty. So writing in terms of, you know, what are the characters in Intelligent Life going to be doing this week? what are Bill and his friends going to be doing this week? that is pretty magical to me because the idea again that today I'm sitting and looking through a D D module, you know, just for inspiration just because it's fun. And then suddenly I'm reading more and more of it and I've lost track of what it is that I'm doing, but it still feeds into inspiration. That's pretty magical. That's pretty fun. With Blondie, the magic because I'm given scripts and I I draw for Blondie, honestly is is drawing that comic strip. I mean, those juicy lines and and staging the characters and being part of this super long, delicious legacy that is Blondie and all the amazing artists that that came before. The magic for me in that is just being part of the legacy and physically drawing the comic strip because it's just It's fun. I don't know how to say it. So different different kinds of magic. But all my
Alex G: Well are you those are great answers one. are you still do you still find yourself chasing something artistically?
David: my painting, I would probably say. I'm constantly sketching
Alex G: Okay.
David: in my sketchbook and coming up with ideas and thoughts. So what I do my off time type stuff that I chase artistically is really just just personal stuff that isn't cartooning. It's more fine art type stuff and you know, sketching a face from an old classic painting or something, or reading about, you know, Willem De Cooning or something, which I've been doing lately, or just just putting paint to canvas and such. So that's something that That I chase more on a just on a personal, on a personal scale, just because it's it's so pleasing to me and I enjoy it so much. It's relaxing, dials me down.
Alex G: Good. And I guess again, before before we cut out of here, you know, speaking specifically about Legend of Bill and Intelligent Life, when someone comes across your strips, what do you hope they take away?
David: Fun. I hope they take away that, wow, this is this is fun. This makes me happy. I enjoy it. Or, you know, I don't need to think too deeply on it so much if they were to encounter it. I would hope that they would think they were written and drawn reasonably well, enough to make them want to read to read some more and feel a sense of of escape and fun. Especi especially with Legend of Bill just being A serialized fantasy. Fun.
Alex G: that's that's that's great. That that
David: Yeah.
Alex G: yeah. I'll that's a perfect answer. That's
David: That that would be it.
Alex G: a perfect answer. Well, Dave, again, thank you so much for taking the time to sit here, walk us through your
David: Thank you.
Alex G: worlds. obviously everything that you've done to the cartooning c for the cartooning industry. thanks for hanging out here on Inside the Kingdom and for giving us a look, I guess,
David: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Alex G: behind the scenes at all of these different worlds. for fans that have joined and are still here, of course, one, like and subscribe, share. that's how we find more like-minded individuals and fans of this medium. you can read David's Intelligent Life and Legend of Build on Comics Kingdom today and Blondie for that matter on Comics Kingdom.
David: And what?
Alex G: And keep following Inside the Kingdom for more conversations with cartoonists and creators behind the comics that we have here. So thanks for listening.
