Science Coaching With Alun Bedding

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This file was generated by Descript
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Judith: Welcome to Berry's In the
Interim podcast, where we explore the
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cutting edge of innovative clinical
trial design for the pharmaceutical and
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medical industries, and so much more.
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Let's dive in.
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Scott: All right.
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Welcome, everybody,
back to In the Interim.
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I'm your host, Scott Berry.
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I have a really interesting topic
today and a really interesting guest.
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So let me jump into my guest, and then
I'll sort of explain the topic here.
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Uh, my guest is Dr.
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Alan Bedding, and he is a director
at the Alan Bedding Coaching and
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Consulting, uh, Group, and he is a
professional certified coach, and
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we'll talk about this idea of coaching.
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Uh, he d- he also does
statistical consulting.
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He is a, is a statistician.
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He spent eight years at Roche
in a number of activities.
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Uh, going back to his, uh, may not be
surprising here, but going back to his,
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uh, PhD at the University of, of Reading,
he did, uh, d- his dissertation work on
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Bayesian, uh, uh, work, uh, and has done
some Bayesian things which we, we, we
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find attractive here on In the Interim.
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So Alan, welcome to In the Interim.
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Alun Bedding: Thank you, Scott,
and I'm, I'm glad to be here.
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And, uh, I've listened to a
few of the, the pod- well, I've
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watched a few of the podcasts.
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Um, in particular the one with, with,
with Jenny Davenport, who was my, uh,
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she was my successor at Roche, so I
was, uh, pleased to listen to that,
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that particular podcast, and happy to
be here, and happy to talk a little bit
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about coaching and maybe a bit about
the link between Bayesian and coaching.
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Yeah, there's
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Scott: Wow.
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Alun Bedding: of a link
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Scott: Wow.
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All right.
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A, a little bit of a teaser.
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Uh,
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Alun Bedding: Mm.
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Scott: I, I love that.
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So, so let's go back to your career
a little bit leading up to this, this
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coaching, uh, that you're doing now.
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Uh, y- talked about, uh,
your PhD work, but I, I…
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I'm always interested, what, what
brought you to the world of statistics?
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How did you become a statistician?
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Alun Bedding: So it, uh, it's, it's
funny, I was talking to one of my
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school friends, uh, yesterday exactly
about this particular topic, how I
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ended up becoming a statistician.
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So, so at school I was exceptionally
good at maths, um, or mathematics as we
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would call it, not math or mathematic.
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Um, and I went for my degree, when I,
when I applied to go for a degree, my…
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One of my, my teachers went, "Oh,
you don't wanna go for a maths degree
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because they're so difficult to get on."
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And I'm like, "Okay, whatever."
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Um, it, it so turned out then that I saw
a statistics course and I thought, "Well,
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that's, that's closely linked to maths.
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Surely that, that, that'll,
that'll, that'll be good."
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And that's where my
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Scott: That's
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Alun Bedding: journey
in statistics started
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Scott: where my journey in
statistics started because I thought
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Alun Bedding: I thought it's linked
to Um, take it through a few years, I
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joined, uh, SmithKline Beecham in 1989.
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Scott: I
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Alun Bedding: In
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Scott: joined Rachel Pharmaceuticals the
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Alun Bedding: the day before
it became SmithKline Beecham,
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Scott: day before it became Stantec
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Alun Bedding: uh, back in 1989
after graduating with a, with a
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degree in, in applied statistics.
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move it forward quite a number of
years, whilst I was at Eli Lilly,
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uh, my boss at the time said, "You've
been doing all this research stuff
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into Bayesian adapted designs.
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You ever thought about
turning it into a PhD?"
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So
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Scott: what then led me to
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Alun Bedding: to pursuing
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Scott: pursuing the PhD
whilst I was working.
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So again, I
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Alun Bedding: yeah, you
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Scott: at the University of Reading.
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Uh, it took me seven
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Alun Bedding: years to do my
PhD, um, but well, well worth it.
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Um, so that's what led me…
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So, so there's my, my, my early journey
and, you know, I, I, I progressed
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all the way up to the, the global
head of, uh, statistical methods,
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collaborations, and outreach, which
I'm not gonna explain because Jenny
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did a fantastic job of explaining
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Scott: Go back to those
collaborations that I originally
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don't know how to explain, but
generally they're Right, right.
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All right, so, so it, uh, so you were
at Eli Lilly, you were at Beecham,
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uh, SmithKline Beecham, all in the UK?
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Uh, uh,
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Alun Bedding: All in the
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Scott: yep.
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Okay
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Alun Bedding: in the UK.
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And actually I came back once I left
Lilly to what was GSK, which would be
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all of the component parts put together
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Scott: yeah, yeah.
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Uh, okay, so you're at,
you're at, you're at Roche.
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Uh, you become the global
head of statistics.
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You're there.
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Um, now at some point, th-
this journey into coaching,
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Alun Bedding: Yeah
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Scott: this transition of deciding to
start your own business, uh, focus…
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By now you do statistical
consulting still, so you're still
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a statistician, but into coaching.
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Tell me the decision.
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Why do that?
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Alun Bedding: So let me take a step
slightly back, uh, to when I became
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a coach and why I became a coach.
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So it was before I was the
global head of, uh, of MCO.
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Uh, prior to that, I was head of an
early development stats group, and went
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on this leadership course within Roche,
um, which was heavily intense, and a
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company brought in to do role play.
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And a lot of that was to do…
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A lot of the, the, the stuff
was around coaching, so you
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had to be a, a, a good coach.
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quite honestly, I was rubbish, um, to the
point where the feedback said, "Well, you
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need to go on a coaching skills course."
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I went on the coaching skills course,
and I thought, "God, I love doing this."
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Now, I, I can't explain
what I loved about it.
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It was maybe not talking too much,
by the way, and listening and just
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moving people through their, their,
their, their, their various problems.
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But I thought, "Well, I love this.
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Maybe I'll…
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I can do the diploma."
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Scott: I went to
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Alun Bedding: I
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Scott: talk my thoughts
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Alun Bedding: to talk to my boss
at the time and, um, said, "I
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wanna do this diploma in coaching."
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Now, at the time, Roche were
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Scott: coaching into their leadership
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Alun Bedding: into their
leaderships, into their leaders.
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when I asked this question,
he said, "Yeah, go ahead.
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ahead and go ahead and do it.
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Go ahead and book it."
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that's, that was 2019.
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That started my journey into, into
co- into the world of coaching.
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Uh, when I'd finished the, the, the, the
course, I thought, "What's, what next?"
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And so I looked at other coaches
within Roche, uh, or other people
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who had done coaching qualifications,
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Scott: People
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Alun Bedding: a,
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Scott: are very good at coaching.
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And we formed a, a community
of practice of coaching that,
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Alun Bedding: that…
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Of,
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Scott: everybody around there that, that
was coaching inside their, inside their
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day job were able to do in their day job.
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But they were also doing being a coach
for other people within the council.
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So it was
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Alun Bedding: within the company.
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So
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Scott: internal, um, job
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Alun Bedding: job
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Scott: coach, I think
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Alun Bedding: you would call it.
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Uh, so that…
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So,
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Scott: So it starts with a,
a kind of mental obstacle
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Alun Bedding: that.
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There were…
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And when I left Roche, there were
accredited coaches with the International
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Coaching Federation, uh, on a
global perspective, which, which I
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thought was a fantastic achievement.
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Scott: And we took, we took those
at fantastic speeds Sorry, sorry,
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200 inside Roche or just 200?
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Alun Bedding: Roche.
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Inside Roche.
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Inside Roche.
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Um, and I amassed over 500 hours
of coaching in what, s- five years
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that I was, from 2019, 2024 when
I, when I eventually left Roche.
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So it, it, it's…
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And I coached quite a, a, a large
number of people, right from some of the
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placement students all the way up to, to
the global head of the Ukraine office, um,
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which was a really challenging piece, but
he remains my favorite person to coach.
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still remains it.
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He's fantastic
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Scott: Ja
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Alun Bedding: Um, and, and then so in
2014, I, uh, I, I, I decided I'd, I'd
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got to the, the, the, the job I wanted
with- which was the global head of MCO.
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I didn't wanna go any further.
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And I think I, I, I knew I'd taken
it as far as I wanted to take it.
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So at that point I decided, you
know, would I stay a member of
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MCO or should I, should I leave?
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And I actually wanted to,
to develop more as a coach.
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And whilst I was in Roche, they,
there was not that opportunity
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to, to really be you as a coach.
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So I decided to leave, um, set
my, my, my coaching and consulting
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business up and, uh, not look back.
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It's, uh, it's, it's great trying to…
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It's great, great combining them.
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And sometimes same client can have
coaching and consulting, which can,
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y- you have to put a little bit of
a boundary, but it can still happen.
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and, and yeah, it's, it's been
one of the most rewarding,
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you know, the last two years.
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They've, they're…
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I can't believe it's
been two years, flown by.
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Um, and I've developed now, uh,
I, I went on a team coaching,
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I've done a team coaching diploma.
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I also now supervise coaches,
and I do what's called mentor
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coaching, which is where you, you
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Scott: other coaches and give them
advice, thoughts on how they should
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Alun Bedding: sh- can
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Scott: their own
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Alun Bedding: own coaching.
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Scott: coaching.
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You know, I've, I've, I've
gone from being a speaker
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Alun Bedding: coach to being
somebody who's quite influential
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in the coaching world.
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Scott: But it's quite influential
in terms of growth And it's
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not just technical, statistical
technical people in pharmaceutical.
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Uh, you're involved in, uh, umpires
in cricket and, uh, uh, referees
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and something you've done in the
past, but you're, you're, you're
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just inherently a coach, I suspect.
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Alun Bedding: Exactly.
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Yeah, exactly.
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And one of the things about, one of the
things that people don't necessarily
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understand with coaching is y- want-
when you're coaching somebody, you don't
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necessarily have to understand their job.
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Because it's not your, your…
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Because it, actually it's even better if
you don't understand their job because
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then you can't give advice, just holding
that space for them to do their best work.
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and yeah, I've coached people,
like you mentioned cricket
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umpires, I know about cricket
umpires, but I've coached people…
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I, I coached a designer who
designed my logo for my, my company.
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Scott: Yeah.
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Alun Bedding: I can't even
draw, let alone be a designer
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Scott: Right
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Alun Bedding: him…
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I can't give him any advice.
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Um, you know, even the, the,
I mentioned the, the, the, uh,
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manager in, in the Ukraine.
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I can't give him any advice.
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He had to work it out for himself.
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And so that's what I was, that's what
I do as a coach, is give people a space
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to work out their solutions themselves
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Scott: So it, it, I, I mean there,
there seems like a parallel here
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with consulting, but to, to back
up a little bit, what is coaching?
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Alun Bedding: So, so one of the…
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I, I describe coaching, uh, as a
part- it's, it's a partnership.
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It's a partnership between two people
where you will explore a particular
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topic, uh, and I use the word
explore quite, quite deliberately,
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because that's what you're doing.
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You're exploring a topic, to have
a shift in the thinking of the
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person that you're working with.
00:10:54.593 --> 00:10:58.843
So it's not about advice, it's not about
mentoring, uh, it's not about therapy.
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People will say, "Oh, is that a therapy?"
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No, no, it's not therapy.
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This is, this is something
that's forward-looking.
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So it's taking them where they are
now to, to what do they want…
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what do they want to have a shift
in that's gonna improve what
00:11:11.773 --> 00:11:14.973
they're, what they, they, they,
they currently bring to coaching?
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Um, so that, that's how,
that's how I perceive coaching.
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There's a lot of definitions out there.
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You go on the International
Coaching Federation website,
00:11:23.423 --> 00:11:24.953
they'll have a different definition.
00:11:25.373 --> 00:11:25.583
But
00:11:25.597 --> 00:11:25.717
But, you know, the
00:11:25.793 --> 00:11:27.273
know, the most important thing is it's a
00:11:27.273 --> 00:11:31.983
partnership Um, so you're equal
partners doing that exploring.
00:11:32.423 --> 00:11:37.653
And yes, I might ask a quest- a certain
question and ans- they, you know,
00:11:37.653 --> 00:11:38.903
they can come up with the answer.
00:11:39.203 --> 00:11:42.453
Or I might just use a bit of
silence and then they'll come
00:11:42.453 --> 00:11:43.383
up with the answer as well.
00:11:43.823 --> 00:11:48.453
The other thing that I like to do is
bring myself into the conversation, and
00:11:48.453 --> 00:11:52.473
what that means is not giving advice,
but if I'm sensing something or somebody
00:11:52.483 --> 00:11:54.693
says something and I'm like, don't…
00:11:54.703 --> 00:11:57.193
Your, your facial expression
is not matching what you're
00:11:57.203 --> 00:12:01.863
saying," I'm, I'm very much at
liberty to, to point that out.
00:12:02.573 --> 00:12:08.363
And quite honestly, that can sometimes
trigger somebody going forward.
00:12:08.423 --> 00:12:12.083
They don't realize they're thinking
about something and they're saying
00:12:12.083 --> 00:12:13.453
something different, and all of a
00:12:13.453 --> 00:12:15.043
they go, "Oh, yeah.
00:12:15.043 --> 00:12:15.204
No,
00:12:15.354 --> 00:12:17.003
I've just realized what
I should be doing."
00:12:17.483 --> 00:12:19.433
And it's amazing when you get that point.
00:12:19.443 --> 00:12:22.443
You're like, I y- I, I, I've
had that and I'm like…
00:12:22.483 --> 00:12:26.883
I'm sitting there thinking, I have no idea
what's happened," but there's something
00:12:26.883 --> 00:12:28.693
there that's transformed in that person.
00:12:30.265 --> 00:12:34.285
Scott: So the, the, the term coaching
and, and, uh, you know, from the sports
00:12:34.285 --> 00:12:39.325
world, uh, and I have a, a son, for
example, who's a baseball player, and he
00:12:39.325 --> 00:12:45.465
wants to, you know, a, a, American cricket
player and, and he would like to…
00:12:45.565 --> 00:12:46.755
He's got goals.
00:12:46.765 --> 00:12:48.865
He would like to become a better player.
00:12:48.865 --> 00:12:54.445
He would like to potentially play
Division I or p- or professional baseball.
00:12:55.085 --> 00:12:59.565
Uh, and so he has coaches within that
are, that are helping him improve.
00:12:59.805 --> 00:13:06.405
Is this, uh, a, a, a career, or are
you a career coach with somebody that
00:13:06.405 --> 00:13:09.115
says, "Here's my goals and aspirations.
00:13:09.615 --> 00:13:11.355
Can you help get me there?"
00:13:11.665 --> 00:13:14.235
Is that a reasonable parallel?
00:13:15.743 --> 00:13:19.343
Alun Bedding: It, it's a, yeah, it,
it's a similar parallel and I, I hate
00:13:19.343 --> 00:13:21.043
using the word life coach, by the way.
00:13:21.043 --> 00:13:23.533
I always say to people, "Please
don't call me a life coach."
00:13:23.903 --> 00:13:28.283
Um, it is, it is helping
somebody out with their life.
00:13:28.283 --> 00:13:30.793
Yeah, it could be, it could
be their career goals, but
00:13:30.793 --> 00:13:31.753
it could be something else.
00:13:31.753 --> 00:13:35.693
It could be something in their personal
life that they wanna talk about, which
00:13:35.693 --> 00:13:41.263
actually probably will connect into their,
their, their, their work life as well.
00:13:41.573 --> 00:13:45.693
And taking your, your, your, your
know, your son's example, he's an
00:13:45.693 --> 00:13:47.803
athlete, but he's also a human being.
00:13:48.303 --> 00:13:51.053
And so whatever, what, what's
affecting him psychologically
00:13:51.053 --> 00:13:54.883
outside of the baseballing is
gonna affect his performance.
00:13:55.223 --> 00:13:58.393
So it, it's important to have
all those elements in there.
00:13:58.753 --> 00:14:05.133
And actually, coaching in sport has become
lot closer to the coaching that I do.
00:14:05.513 --> 00:14:07.583
In, in the, in times
gone past it was, it w-
00:14:07.929 --> 00:14:08.049
Scott: They, you know, they're trying
to manage their way on a company
00:14:08.049 --> 00:14:08.099
that's, you know, making billions
00:14:08.193 --> 00:14:10.513
Alun Bedding: the, you know, the coach
or the manager or what do you wanna call
00:14:10.513 --> 00:14:15.123
'em, shouting and bawling instructions,
and I think the modern, more modern
00:14:15.123 --> 00:14:17.853
coaches have realized that does not work.
00:14:18.343 --> 00:14:21.193
Um, because these guys knows what
they, knows, know what they're doing.
00:14:21.563 --> 00:14:25.953
Um, and therefore, you know, it's
a case of just trying to get them
00:14:26.439 --> 00:14:26.769
Scott: Think about their own solutions
00:14:26.803 --> 00:14:28.173
Alun Bedding: about their own solutions.
00:14:28.553 --> 00:14:31.913
You know, I mean, uh, I, I'll
take Roger Federer as an example.
00:14:32.183 --> 00:14:35.093
I mean, if you're Roger Federer's coach,
you're not gonna tell him how to play
00:14:35.093 --> 00:14:36.833
tennis 'cause he knows how to play.
00:14:37.721 --> 00:14:37.981
Scott: Ja
00:14:38.023 --> 00:14:40.133
Alun Bedding: but a lot of
it's, it may be up in his mind.
00:14:40.143 --> 00:14:42.833
It may be, you know, he's thinking
about the, the previous point and
00:14:42.833 --> 00:14:46.223
he wants to explore, well, why was
I thinking about the previous point?
00:14:46.233 --> 00:14:47.713
What's going on with this?
00:14:48.173 --> 00:14:51.513
Uh, and what can I then do as a
strategy to not think about the
00:14:51.513 --> 00:14:53.813
previous point when I play my next game?
00:14:53.913 --> 00:14:54.163
Scott: Yeah.
00:14:54.443 --> 00:14:57.963
Yeah, and I, I, I, I don't know
tennis as well, but for professional
00:14:57.963 --> 00:15:02.053
golfers, for example, they have a
swing coach, they have a short game
00:15:02.053 --> 00:15:06.683
coach, they have a putting coach, then
they have a, a, a mentality coach.
00:15:06.893 --> 00:15:13.173
Uh, i- i- i- it's, I, I imagine that is
all, you know, sort of part, part of this.
00:15:13.803 --> 00:15:14.983
Alun Bedding: Yeah, absolutely.
00:15:15.303 --> 00:15:18.913
And there's a fantastic series of
books by Tim Gallwey called The Inner
00:15:19.163 --> 00:15:23.293
Game Of, one called The Inner Game
of Golf, there's an Inner Game of
00:15:23.293 --> 00:15:25.353
Tennis, there's an Inner Game of Work.
00:15:25.803 --> 00:15:28.063
There isn't an Inner Game of
Baseball, I don't think, but then,
00:15:28.133 --> 00:15:30.633
uh, it may be that, that I don't…
00:15:30.673 --> 00:15:31.923
haven't even seen that yet.
00:15:32.043 --> 00:15:35.143
But that's all about this
whole idea of having like a
00:15:35.143 --> 00:15:36.883
swing, like say a swing coach.
00:15:37.323 --> 00:15:42.063
Um, and, and the important
part of coaching as well is
00:15:42.553 --> 00:15:43.893
giving somebody feedback.
00:15:44.213 --> 00:15:49.193
So coming to your swing coach example,
somebody might not know that their,
00:15:49.533 --> 00:15:52.033
their, their s- their s- I don't
know, they're moving their hips in a
00:15:52.033 --> 00:15:55.633
certain direction when their swing's
happening, therefore the ball's
00:15:55.633 --> 00:15:57.123
going off in the wrong direction.
00:15:57.893 --> 00:16:01.303
And so the, the, the swing coach might
just turn around and say, "Do you realize
00:16:01.353 --> 00:16:05.583
that your, your hips are twisting where,
too much when you're, you're, you're,
00:16:05.603 --> 00:16:07.403
you're driving, driving the ball?"
00:16:07.403 --> 00:16:09.283
They go, "I didn't realize that."
00:16:09.663 --> 00:16:11.223
"Okay, what are you gonna do about it?"
00:16:12.023 --> 00:16:14.343
they, you know, they, then they're
gonna say, "Well, maybe I'll, I'll, I'll
00:16:14.343 --> 00:16:16.263
try not m- twisting my hips so much."
00:16:16.463 --> 00:16:20.253
Okay, it might feel a bit,
bit forced at first, but after
00:16:20.253 --> 00:16:21.423
a while it's gonna take…
00:16:21.783 --> 00:16:23.403
it's gonna become more n-
more natural with them.
00:16:23.543 --> 00:16:23.763
And if it
00:16:23.813 --> 00:16:23.873
Scott: Search that
00:16:24.113 --> 00:16:25.263
Alun Bedding: their game, brilliant
00:16:27.179 --> 00:16:32.699
Scott: I, I, the golf example
seems simpler in the sense that the
00:16:32.819 --> 00:16:35.549
goal's probably much more clear.
00:16:35.869 --> 00:16:37.779
I want to shoot a lower score,
00:16:38.579 --> 00:16:38.979
Alun Bedding: Right
00:16:39.229 --> 00:16:39.809
Scott: in that.
00:16:39.859 --> 00:16:44.539
And, um, uh, y- you could imagine
this, uh, the, the- there's a clock.
00:16:44.539 --> 00:16:48.639
I know you're thinking about doing,
uh, uh, some level of sprint triathlon
00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:49.849
and, you know, I, I want to…
00:16:49.859 --> 00:16:51.059
my best time.
00:16:51.299 --> 00:16:53.959
You know, I, I think a lot of times
in that I just want to finish.
00:16:54.219 --> 00:16:58.289
But, but like, you know, the goals
are, are much more clear in sport.
00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:04.369
As a, as somebody, uh, who's coming to
you who's a statistician, a technical
00:17:04.369 --> 00:17:09.999
person working in the pharmaceutical
industry, how hard is it to identify
00:17:10.269 --> 00:17:14.679
what their goals are and how much
that's related to the coaching?
00:17:15.851 --> 00:17:17.411
Alun Bedding: I, well,
as a coach, I would…
00:17:17.431 --> 00:17:20.251
Yeah, I mean if, let's say they come
to me, the f- the first question
00:17:20.251 --> 00:17:22.151
I'll ask is, you know, "What do
you wanna think about today?"
00:17:22.151 --> 00:17:23.871
Or, "What do you wanna work about today?"
00:17:25.341 --> 00:17:29.141
and if they tell me what their goal
is, I may sort of, sort of tell them,
00:17:29.141 --> 00:17:30.351
"Well, what does that mean to you?
00:17:31.161 --> 00:17:32.331
important or, or, you know, what…"
00:17:32.641 --> 00:17:34.991
Let's say they come and say, uh,
"I wanna be a better manager."
00:17:35.891 --> 00:17:38.121
So what, what does, what does
a better manager look like?
00:17:38.621 --> 00:17:39.411
What does a better manager…
00:17:39.421 --> 00:17:41.121
What does it, what does it
feel to be a better manager?
00:17:41.121 --> 00:17:43.401
What would it feel like
to be a better manager?
00:17:43.861 --> 00:17:46.391
And what would a better manager,
what would that give you?
00:17:47.071 --> 00:17:49.311
would that give you in,
in, in your own life?
00:17:49.311 --> 00:17:52.131
You know, what, what's important
about becoming a better manager?
00:17:52.501 --> 00:17:57.371
So it's not necessarily the, the surface
topic, it's then just digging a bit deeper
00:17:58.091 --> 00:18:00.251
into what's the motivations around there.
00:18:00.721 --> 00:18:01.901
And, and I would also
00:18:02.051 --> 00:18:05.835
Scott: Well, how do you know you're a part
of the leadership staff and not a social?
00:18:05.835 --> 00:18:09.561
And if they say they want to be a better
manager, I'll say, "Well, okay, well
00:18:09.611 --> 00:18:12.711
Alun Bedding: Well, what are you
gonna get out of this conversation?
00:18:12.731 --> 00:18:17.061
How can we get you to become, to, to
have one step towards a better manager
00:18:17.269 --> 00:18:18.349
Scott: during this conversation.
00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:18.869
And I
00:18:18.941 --> 00:18:19.131
Alun Bedding: And I
00:18:19.299 --> 00:18:19.579
Scott: might say, so
00:18:19.681 --> 00:18:19.851
Alun Bedding: "So
00:18:19.999 --> 00:18:20.169
Scott: once it peaks at
being about a 90 G1 three
00:18:20.171 --> 00:18:22.361
Alun Bedding: piece of being a
better manager do you wanna be?"
00:18:22.971 --> 00:18:26.041
Um, so it's digging into
that goal and getting them…
00:18:26.191 --> 00:18:30.131
It, it, I don't need to be clear on their
goal, they need to be clear on their goal.
00:18:30.611 --> 00:18:33.661
And I may even ask them, "Are you
clear on what your, your objective
00:18:33.661 --> 00:18:34.951
is for this, for this session?"
00:18:34.951 --> 00:18:37.221
Or, "Are you clear now on
what your goal actually is?"
00:18:38.251 --> 00:18:40.981
So it's, it's getting
them the clarity in them
00:18:42.255 --> 00:18:43.885
Scott: No, it's g- uh, uh, I, I…
00:18:43.895 --> 00:18:48.595
And, and the parallels actually,
as you describe this to statistical
00:18:48.595 --> 00:18:52.045
consulting, seem actually really strong.
00:18:52.065 --> 00:18:56.905
So a, a client may come in and s- they
wanna design a trial, and they ask
00:18:56.905 --> 00:19:01.675
for a power calculation, um, in part
because they think they're supposed to.
00:19:01.675 --> 00:19:04.765
And, and well, w- what are
the goals of the trial?
00:19:04.765 --> 00:19:06.555
What actually are you trying to do?
00:19:06.555 --> 00:19:09.735
And it turns out, in many ways,
they don't want a power calculation.
00:19:09.735 --> 00:19:10.975
That, that was not at all.
00:19:10.975 --> 00:19:12.385
And do they wanna do adaptive?
00:19:12.385 --> 00:19:16.605
And so a lot of times it's actually
trying to identify what is the
00:19:16.605 --> 00:19:17.915
problem we're trying to solve?
00:19:17.925 --> 00:19:19.255
Why are you running the trial?
00:19:19.495 --> 00:19:25.205
That this is asking them the questions
that come with leading to a, a good
00:19:25.205 --> 00:19:27.415
solution to whatever the problem is.
00:19:27.595 --> 00:19:32.775
It almost seems like a similar thing,
but it's, it's the person you're trying
00:19:32.775 --> 00:19:35.805
to diagnose, their goals, uh, in this.
00:19:35.805 --> 00:19:36.355
Is that…
00:19:37.415 --> 00:19:39.405
Am I, am I, am I crazy?
00:19:40.267 --> 00:19:41.767
Alun Bedding: Yeah, no,
you're not crazy at all.
00:19:41.847 --> 00:19:45.617
Yeah, you're, you're working with the
person, um, and that's the whole point of
00:19:45.627 --> 00:19:47.347
coaching, is you're coaching the person.
00:19:48.417 --> 00:19:52.037
There is a massive parallel though
with, with consulting, because
00:19:52.037 --> 00:19:53.587
you're ab- you're absolutely right.
00:19:53.997 --> 00:19:56.697
You know, uh, they come to
you with a power calculation.
00:19:56.697 --> 00:19:58.777
Well, actually, what is
your goal of the trial?
00:19:59.237 --> 00:20:01.257
What's your scientific question here?
00:20:02.757 --> 00:20:05.507
they're, they're all
coaching type of questions.
00:20:05.977 --> 00:20:10.457
Um, and that's where leaders and
particularly statistical leaders, when,
00:20:10.477 --> 00:20:13.537
when they talk about coaching, that's
the sort of thing they need to be doing,
00:20:13.537 --> 00:20:17.917
is more those types of questions, not
just taking something at first value.
00:20:18.957 --> 00:20:20.007
what, what's, what…
00:20:20.007 --> 00:20:20.777
Going deeper.
00:20:20.807 --> 00:20:22.187
What's going deeper into this?
00:20:22.507 --> 00:20:23.067
But in the
00:20:23.103 --> 00:20:23.253
Pure coconut oil is
00:20:23.377 --> 00:20:27.847
coaching that I would do
outside of that, it's all about
00:20:27.867 --> 00:20:29.187
the person in front of them.
00:20:29.607 --> 00:20:33.747
And the, the trick to being, I say
a trick, but it's, it's, it's not to
00:20:33.757 --> 00:20:35.167
get involved with the story.
00:20:35.877 --> 00:20:38.597
don't get involved with the story,
but get involved with the person
00:20:39.067 --> 00:20:41.067
and just explore their motivations.
00:20:41.067 --> 00:20:45.097
And if they say, say something, maybe
explore that one word, or if they keep
00:20:45.107 --> 00:20:49.907
repeating a word over and over again,
the one I, I often hear is maybe.
00:20:50.377 --> 00:20:52.327
Maybe, maybe I'll do
it, maybe I'll do that.
00:20:52.767 --> 00:20:55.487
And I'll just say, "What
does maybe f- do for you?
00:20:55.777 --> 00:20:58.217
What does maybe f- what,
what, what's maybe about?"
00:20:58.657 --> 00:21:00.427
And they'll go, "Well, I didn't
realize I was saying that."
00:21:01.357 --> 00:21:04.877
Uh, may- and then, and, but then,
then they'll be conscious and they…
00:21:05.727 --> 00:21:09.427
it may be a case, if I say it's
a maybe, it could be that they've
00:21:09.433 --> 00:21:09.523
Scott: Doubt in them that
that's what they wanna do.
00:21:09.523 --> 00:21:09.673
So you saying, well, you saying maybe
a lot, what maybe means to you, they
00:21:09.673 --> 00:21:09.803
go, "Well, I, I keep like doubting
myself whether I can do this."
00:21:10.017 --> 00:21:12.107
Alun Bedding: in their head
if that's what they wanna do.
00:21:12.467 --> 00:21:15.407
So you saying, you say maybe a lot.
00:21:15.737 --> 00:21:17.197
What does maybe mean to you?"
00:21:17.627 --> 00:21:20.817
They may go, "Well, I, I'm actually quite
doubting myself whether I can do this."
00:21:21.577 --> 00:21:23.797
Um, and then you can
dig in something deeper.
00:21:23.797 --> 00:21:26.187
"Okay, well, what's that
doubt doing for you?"
00:21:26.857 --> 00:21:29.687
Or, "What would it, what would
it be like if you, if you, if
00:21:29.687 --> 00:21:31.127
you got rid of that doubt?"
00:21:32.457 --> 00:21:34.037
And then exploring it even further.
00:21:34.177 --> 00:21:35.937
So it's, it's, it…
00:21:35.987 --> 00:21:38.987
I, I can't tell you what g- what
happens in every conversation because
00:21:38.987 --> 00:21:40.997
it's so different every conversation.
00:21:42.287 --> 00:21:42.627
Um-
00:21:42.937 --> 00:21:48.327
Scott: And, and so when somebody, uh,
when somebody comes to you and you're,
00:21:48.347 --> 00:21:52.837
you're getting involved in coaching,
uh, I, I imagine this, the, the critical
00:21:52.847 --> 00:21:57.187
thing is what, what does, what's
success for that person in some sense?
00:21:57.187 --> 00:21:58.937
You know, why, what, what are their goals?
00:21:58.937 --> 00:21:59.737
What's success?
00:22:00.227 --> 00:22:04.567
Are you trying to identify
why they're not there?
00:22:04.847 --> 00:22:07.727
Um, I, i- is this more I, I…
00:22:07.897 --> 00:22:11.397
Maybe everyone is different,
that some people have strengths.
00:22:11.397 --> 00:22:13.617
Can we, can we push your strengths?
00:22:13.617 --> 00:22:15.927
Can we figure out your weaknesses?
00:22:16.357 --> 00:22:19.667
Uh, uh, i- is that part of this?
00:22:20.619 --> 00:22:21.849
Alun Bedding: It, it could be part of it.
00:22:21.949 --> 00:22:22.789
It doesn't have to
00:22:23.043 --> 00:22:23.353
Scott: Hmm.
00:22:23.429 --> 00:22:24.659
Alun Bedding: And, and it's up to them.
00:22:24.729 --> 00:22:29.129
Um, you know, the coach- type of
coaching I do is non-directive coaching,
00:22:29.129 --> 00:22:33.459
so I leave them to decide where
they wanna go with the conversation.
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:36.819
And if they say, "Well, I actually
wanna focus on my strengths for this,
00:22:36.849 --> 00:22:37.909
this thing," well, I say, "Okay."
00:22:37.909 --> 00:22:39.669
Like, well, I, I…
00:22:39.679 --> 00:22:43.259
One exercise I've done quite, quite,
quite literally is get them to draw out
00:22:43.299 --> 00:22:45.029
their strengths on a piece of paper.
00:22:45.829 --> 00:22:50.019
Um, I said, "Don't show it to me, but
maybe stand up and look at your strengths.
00:22:50.099 --> 00:22:52.049
What are you noticing
about those strengths?"
00:22:52.829 --> 00:22:53.699
And then digging into that.
00:22:53.699 --> 00:22:55.599
So it can look at
strengths and weaknesses.
00:22:55.959 --> 00:22:58.059
Um, the other thing I, I, I, I've often…
00:22:58.089 --> 00:23:00.789
I, I do get a lot of people come
and say, particularly start of
00:23:00.819 --> 00:23:02.579
the year, "What are my goals?
00:23:02.619 --> 00:23:04.369
I wanna, I wanna work on my goals."
00:23:05.129 --> 00:23:07.849
And I'll say, "Well, what's,
what's a challenging goal for you?"
00:23:08.859 --> 00:23:10.479
And they go, "What do you mean
what's a challenging goal?"
00:23:10.879 --> 00:23:12.309
"What's gonna make you excited?
00:23:12.409 --> 00:23:12.599
What's
00:23:12.729 --> 00:23:12.769
Scott: risk not doing it.
00:23:12.769 --> 00:23:12.939
And if somebody says, "Well, I'm gonna-- I
can analyze one car in a year or something
00:23:12.939 --> 00:23:13.099
like that, or write one paper in a year,"
and I know they're probably about that
00:23:13.099 --> 00:23:13.189
good at science, I may go, "Is that really
00:23:13.459 --> 00:23:14.749
Alun Bedding: risk not doing it?"
00:23:15.189 --> 00:23:16.549
And, and if somebody
says, "Well, I'll go…
00:23:16.549 --> 00:23:19.979
I can analyze one trial in a year,"
or something like that, or write
00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:22.959
one paper within a year, and I
know they can probably write about
00:23:22.959 --> 00:23:26.449
four or five papers, I may go,
"Is that the really, the reality?"
00:23:27.909 --> 00:23:31.059
but I also, during my coaching
conversations, we'll let…
00:23:31.059 --> 00:23:34.569
You come back to strengths, I'll
acknowledge their strengths as well.
00:23:34.569 --> 00:23:37.389
So if they've done a lot of deep
thinking and good thinking about
00:23:37.419 --> 00:23:39.379
a topic, I may say, "You…
00:23:39.419 --> 00:23:41.179
Do you realize you're
such a good thinker?"
00:23:41.939 --> 00:23:44.309
And that's just acknowledging
who they are as a person.
00:23:44.619 --> 00:23:44.889
And that's
00:23:45.017 --> 00:23:45.147
Scott: important in coaching is to do
that, is to acknowledge who they are
00:23:45.149 --> 00:23:47.139
Alun Bedding: important i- in
coaching, is to do that, is
00:23:47.139 --> 00:23:48.399
to acknowledge who they are.
00:23:49.289 --> 00:23:50.529
Um, so yeah.
00:23:50.529 --> 00:23:50.609
This…
00:23:50.719 --> 00:23:51.239
It's, um…
00:23:51.999 --> 00:23:53.299
it's such a vast area.
00:23:53.409 --> 00:23:54.339
It really is.
00:23:54.389 --> 00:23:58.469
Um, I th- I thought Bayesian was a
vast area, by the way, but coaching's
00:23:58.469 --> 00:24:00.289
a m- big, vast area as well.
00:24:00.665 --> 00:24:03.175
Scott: So it's, uh, it's interest-
some of the things you're saying
00:24:03.175 --> 00:24:08.645
and describing, in my, uh, my
naive sense, sound like therapy.
00:24:09.375 --> 00:24:10.595
Um, that, that…
00:24:10.705 --> 00:24:11.895
A- and what is therapy?
00:24:11.895 --> 00:24:16.195
I, I guess part of this is what is
therapy, but it, for, had to have somebody
00:24:16.505 --> 00:24:21.295
talk about this and present their own
case, I, I, I suspect a lot of people
00:24:21.295 --> 00:24:23.015
don't actually talk about themselves.
00:24:23.255 --> 00:24:26.295
I don't, I don't remember the
last time I sat down and talked
00:24:26.295 --> 00:24:28.265
about my goals or sort of thing.
00:24:28.395 --> 00:24:34.075
So what is the difference then if
this is not therapy and coaching?
00:24:34.415 --> 00:24:34.685
Yeah
00:24:34.863 --> 00:24:35.683
Alun Bedding: great question.
00:24:36.003 --> 00:24:38.383
Therapy, uh, no, I'm
gonna start with that.
00:24:38.383 --> 00:24:39.943
Coaching's forward facing.
00:24:40.393 --> 00:24:45.753
So what you're trying to do is I'm,
I'm here, and I wanna get to somewhere.
00:24:45.993 --> 00:24:47.033
I wanna get somewhere.
00:24:47.413 --> 00:24:50.583
And you don't dig into … Well, you
can dig into a little bit of the past,
00:24:50.583 --> 00:24:54.933
but it's more a case of digging into
that to, to, to, to give them a shift
00:24:54.933 --> 00:24:56.523
in how they're thinking about things.
00:24:57.923 --> 00:24:59.293
it's also very uncomfortable.
00:24:59.293 --> 00:25:00.993
You know, therapy sounds
nice and comfortable.
00:25:00.993 --> 00:25:02.353
It's not comfortable, by the way.
00:25:02.353 --> 00:25:04.523
I've had, had quite a
bit of therapy myself.
00:25:05.013 --> 00:25:08.403
Um, it, coaching can be quite challenging.
00:25:09.143 --> 00:25:11.833
It can be very challenging for the
person you're coaching, because you're
00:25:11.833 --> 00:25:14.193
trying to push them into a zone of
uncomforta- uh, being uncomfortable,
00:25:14.523 --> 00:25:18.423
being uncomfortable, because that's
where the, the progression happens.
00:25:18.833 --> 00:25:19.093
So
00:25:19.197 --> 00:25:19.277
Questions?
00:25:19.763 --> 00:25:22.553
I would a- I'm, I, I can be quite
horrible as a coach sometimes.
00:25:22.553 --> 00:25:23.783
I can be really challenging.
00:25:25.373 --> 00:25:26.723
and sometimes I won't let go.
00:25:27.063 --> 00:25:30.003
So if they go off on a different tangent,
I'll say, "Well, can we come back?
00:25:30.573 --> 00:25:32.133
Maybe we can come back to this question."
00:25:32.483 --> 00:25:35.723
Or I may even say, "I notice
you've gone off topic.
00:25:35.993 --> 00:25:37.143
What's going on here?"
00:25:38.193 --> 00:25:41.133
Um, so that's the difference
between … I mean, therapy's
00:25:41.163 --> 00:25:42.873
very much backward fa- facing.
00:25:42.873 --> 00:25:47.223
You, you, you try … I, I, I'm not a
therapist myself, but I'm, I understand
00:25:47.223 --> 00:25:50.263
what you're trying to do is understand
patterns that have happened in the
00:25:50.263 --> 00:25:54.573
past to, to move forward a little
bit, but coaching's always forwards,
00:25:54.833 --> 00:25:56.333
should be always forward focusing.
00:25:57.063 --> 00:26:00.533
Uh, even in a session, they may start with
00:26:00.603 --> 00:26:00.723
Scott: start with a
00:26:00.963 --> 00:26:02.163
Alun Bedding: with one question.
00:26:02.653 --> 00:26:04.543
Halfway through they may
have a different question.
00:26:05.013 --> 00:26:07.363
The important thing in
there is, where do we need
00:26:07.443 --> 00:26:07.643
Scott: prop with one pressure gun,
operator knows he has a pressure.
00:26:07.643 --> 00:26:07.783
And the important thing in there
is where do we need to go next?
00:26:08.373 --> 00:26:11.453
Alun Bedding: Not, oh, you wanted to
do this at the start, you're now here.
00:26:11.943 --> 00:26:13.093
No, hold on, they've moved on.
00:26:13.383 --> 00:26:14.523
So the, the whole point
00:26:14.541 --> 00:26:14.591
Scott: The whole
00:26:14.643 --> 00:26:14.953
Alun Bedding: for them
00:26:14.961 --> 00:26:15.081
Scott: point is that to present
00:26:15.083 --> 00:26:17.423
Alun Bedding: move from
here to a different place
00:26:18.137 --> 00:26:18.967
Scott: So, so interesting.
00:26:18.977 --> 00:26:24.157
So I mean, in some sense this, the, the
ath- the athletic coach parallel, if
00:26:24.157 --> 00:26:28.447
they're coaching an athlete, is trying to
make that athlete be better than perhaps
00:26:28.447 --> 00:26:30.367
they even think they are and all of that.
00:26:30.367 --> 00:26:35.227
So this, this phrase that, uh, is on
your website as well, that your direct
00:26:35.227 --> 00:26:39.047
and challenging approach, is that a
little bit of that, that you might
00:26:39.057 --> 00:26:43.497
bring out of somebody more than they
actually think that they, they are?
00:26:43.659 --> 00:26:43.879
Alun Bedding: Yeah.
00:26:43.967 --> 00:26:44.317
Scott: Okay
00:26:44.539 --> 00:26:47.479
Alun Bedding: that's exactly it, and
I, I, I think that's where the, the,
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:51.789
the parallel with sports coaching's
great because, sports coaching is
00:26:51.789 --> 00:26:53.559
all about improving performance.
00:26:54.109 --> 00:26:57.269
And, and the coaching I do, in a
way, is about improving performance.
00:26:57.289 --> 00:27:00.629
It might be in a specific area,
it might be in a broader area,
00:27:00.629 --> 00:27:02.979
but it's about p- improving…
00:27:03.439 --> 00:27:06.329
I, I, I wouldn't say necessarily
performance, but it's about improving
00:27:06.329 --> 00:27:10.509
themselves, and, you know, getting
to a different stage of thinking.
00:27:10.789 --> 00:27:11.019
Yeah.
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:12.959
That, that parallel…
00:27:12.959 --> 00:27:15.039
And, and, yeah, I can
be quite challenging.
00:27:15.129 --> 00:27:20.879
Um, one of the, the, the books I use is
called Challenging Coaching, and in there
00:27:20.879 --> 00:27:24.679
they have a support challenge matrix,
um, where it's high support and high
00:27:24.689 --> 00:27:26.449
challenge, they call it the loving boot.
00:27:27.399 --> 00:27:30.209
So in, in essence, what you're
saying is that's a loving…
00:27:30.239 --> 00:27:30.629
That's gonna…
00:27:30.679 --> 00:27:31.919
That's trying to kick you on.
00:27:33.659 --> 00:27:37.379
but a cozy conversation's not
gonna do that, and coaching
00:27:37.379 --> 00:27:39.599
should not be a cozy conversation.
00:27:39.859 --> 00:27:42.519
It has to be uncomfortable
for it to be effective.
00:27:43.679 --> 00:27:47.009
Scott: Now, now I, I, I have a
question here, and I, uh, think
00:27:47.009 --> 00:27:49.629
based on our discussion, I'm
wondering if it's a bad question.
00:27:49.629 --> 00:27:52.809
So you can tell me this is a bad
question, but I, I originally
00:27:52.809 --> 00:27:53.609
thought it would be nice…
00:27:53.629 --> 00:27:57.909
You know, what are common things
that technical statisticians,
00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:00.769
um, uh, would benefit from?
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:03.319
Or, or, you know, what does
leadership look to benefit?
00:28:03.629 --> 00:28:06.589
But I'm almost taking that, that
in some ways that's a bad question
00:28:06.589 --> 00:28:09.709
because everybody's different
i- in, in, in all of that.
00:28:09.709 --> 00:28:15.799
So to lump statisticians into a category
and for you to give coaching to, to, to
00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:18.669
our audience might be a dumb question
00:28:21.369 --> 00:28:23.859
Alun Bedding: It, it, it
isn't, isn't a dumb question.
00:28:23.979 --> 00:28:29.559
Um, I do remember when I used to coach
statisticians in the past that I, I
00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:33.369
can answer their questions and I can
mentor them rather or advise them.
00:28:33.869 --> 00:28:37.549
And I, I, I decided actually I'm, I'm
gonna try not, not try and do that.
00:28:38.259 --> 00:28:44.629
And as a consequence, some of the topics
that came about were, were fantastic.
00:28:44.629 --> 00:28:48.169
And I, I, I think I could even
coach somebody now on if they're
00:28:48.179 --> 00:28:50.159
deriving a statistical methodology.
00:28:50.599 --> 00:28:52.359
I don't need to know that methodology.
00:28:52.769 --> 00:28:55.829
I could just, I could just ask
them, "Well, what are you noticing
00:28:55.839 --> 00:29:00.309
about what's, what's going on when
you're thinking about X, Y, and Z?"
00:29:00.309 --> 00:29:03.429
Um, the, the other things I get
with, with, with, the, you know,
00:29:03.429 --> 00:29:06.859
sort of topics I get is how
do I influence senior leaders?
00:29:06.869 --> 00:29:09.379
How do I communicate better?
00:29:10.059 --> 00:29:12.089
How do I present this, this topic?
00:29:12.379 --> 00:29:14.419
Can you give me some tips on presenting?
00:29:14.729 --> 00:29:15.739
Actually, I don't give them tips.
00:29:15.779 --> 00:29:19.399
I just want to listen to what they're
presenting and then give them feedback.
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:21.659
Give them feedback about
how they're presenting.
00:29:22.139 --> 00:29:27.859
Um, so, so there's a multitude of topics
and I, and I would say the topics that,
00:29:27.949 --> 00:29:32.269
that face everybody are the topics
that statisticians bring as well.
00:29:33.429 --> 00:29:36.679
and statistical leaders will
often come to me and say, just
00:29:36.679 --> 00:29:37.689
wanna be a better leader."
00:29:38.569 --> 00:29:41.139
then I'm gonna dig in a little
bit de- deeper, "Well, what does
00:29:41.139 --> 00:29:42.219
it mean to be a better leader?
00:29:42.329 --> 00:29:44.749
And what, what part of being
a better leader do you wanna,
00:29:44.819 --> 00:29:45.919
do you wanna focus on?"
00:29:46.549 --> 00:29:52.389
Um, and th- there's such a multitude,
like I say, such a multitude of topics.
00:29:52.959 --> 00:29:55.839
Um, team work's one I get quite regularly.
00:29:55.839 --> 00:29:57.799
How do I work better in this team?
00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:01.099
uh, yeah, there's, there's, there's…
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:01.909
It, it's…
00:30:02.249 --> 00:30:05.919
I'd say it's not a dumb question,
but it's not a fantastic question.
00:30:05.919 --> 00:30:07.259
It's a broad question you asked.
00:30:08.287 --> 00:30:08.307
Scott: Yeah.
00:30:09.017 --> 00:30:10.727
I feel like I was just coached there.
00:30:10.727 --> 00:30:11.907
I, I like that, yeah.
00:30:12.437 --> 00:30:15.537
Um, what can I, can I…
00:30:15.607 --> 00:30:18.217
I, I mean, two, two
sides of a coin perhaps.
00:30:18.217 --> 00:30:20.497
Can I self-coach myself?
00:30:20.887 --> 00:30:25.937
And nowadays, of course, can AI coach me
00:30:28.343 --> 00:30:29.903
Alun Bedding: Oh, I'm gonna
answer the first one first,
00:30:29.903 --> 00:30:30.823
then I'm gonna answer the second
00:30:30.827 --> 00:30:31.187
Scott: Okay
00:30:31.333 --> 00:30:32.553
Alun Bedding: the second
one's quite a good one.
00:30:33.053 --> 00:30:34.493
Uh, well, both are good questions.
00:30:34.773 --> 00:30:37.443
So the self-coaching
one's an interesting one.
00:30:38.483 --> 00:30:42.083
One of the things I mentioned
was, uh, what coaching can do
00:30:42.103 --> 00:30:43.933
is identify your blind spots.
00:30:43.943 --> 00:30:48.233
And I think to myself, "Well, how
can you identify your blind spots?"
00:30:48.273 --> 00:30:50.363
Because they're things you don't know.
00:30:51.313 --> 00:30:53.243
So take the golfer, an example.
00:30:54.173 --> 00:30:57.373
If there's n- wasn't a, a, a
swing coach with that go- with
00:30:57.373 --> 00:31:01.823
that golfer, he wouldn't know
that his swing's out of balance.
00:31:02.673 --> 00:31:08.153
So where I would say y- you can
self-coach yourself to a certain
00:31:08.153 --> 00:31:14.523
extent, but it often takes a skilled
coach to be, be sitting with you
00:31:14.983 --> 00:31:16.633
and just challenge you a little bit.
00:31:16.913 --> 00:31:20.443
Um, because there's a lot of
self-bias when we start…
00:31:20.493 --> 00:31:22.983
You know, I'm, I'm g- I'm
guess meant self-bias being a
00:31:22.983 --> 00:31:24.083
nice statistical word there.
00:31:24.433 --> 00:31:25.573
But there's a lot of self-bias.
00:31:25.593 --> 00:31:26.783
You know, we can talk ourselves
00:31:26.785 --> 00:31:26.795
Scott: idea.
00:31:26.795 --> 00:31:26.845
This is a fantastic idea.
00:31:26.845 --> 00:31:26.875
Where's the cup?
00:31:26.953 --> 00:31:28.763
Alun Bedding: saying,
"This is a fantastic idea.
00:31:28.763 --> 00:31:30.153
This is a fantastic idea."
00:31:31.013 --> 00:31:35.513
a coach might turn around and say, "What
is it about this ide- idea that's great?
00:31:36.373 --> 00:31:39.553
Is that really go- or, or is that
really gonna give you what you want?"
00:31:40.193 --> 00:31:43.093
That's a closed question,
but it might really make you
00:31:43.103 --> 00:31:44.433
think twice about that thing.
00:31:44.823 --> 00:31:46.303
"Or is that goal you're, you're commit…
00:31:46.313 --> 00:31:47.653
Is that challenging enough for you?
00:31:48.553 --> 00:31:49.933
excited by that goal?
00:31:50.663 --> 00:31:52.613
do you feel when you look
at that particular thing?"
00:31:53.233 --> 00:31:57.503
might write down a goal which I really
like, but a, a good coach might look
00:31:57.503 --> 00:31:59.843
and I go, "What do you really think?"
00:32:01.503 --> 00:32:05.363
self-coaching, yeah, I don't
necessarily believe in it.
00:32:05.553 --> 00:32:08.893
Um, now, can you use an AI coach?
00:32:08.893 --> 00:32:09.963
This is an interesting
00:32:10.165 --> 00:32:12.255
Scott: well, let me, be- before
you go into that, let me, uh, uh…
00:32:12.585 --> 00:32:17.825
So I, the, again, the parallels, I can't
escape this, but to have a coach but then
00:32:18.595 --> 00:32:23.955
to s- to put it, to implement, if you
were to provide coaching to somebody,
00:32:24.275 --> 00:32:30.335
there's gotta be a part where they then
implement what they've learned i- in that.
00:32:30.335 --> 00:32:33.225
And that, to some extent, I don't know
if that's self-coaching, but that's part.
00:32:33.595 --> 00:32:38.315
My brother's a professional golfer, for
example, and he gets frustrated with,
00:32:38.365 --> 00:32:42.805
with teaching sometimes, depending
on the person, because he'll have a
00:32:42.805 --> 00:32:48.245
session, the person comes back, and
they've done nothing, uh, i- in that.
00:32:48.245 --> 00:32:50.875
And it's the same thing, you know,
it, it's a little bit of that.
00:32:51.155 --> 00:32:54.925
Uh, so but that doesn't
feel like self-coaching.
00:32:54.925 --> 00:32:58.085
That feels like implementing
what I've learned is different.
00:32:58.819 --> 00:32:59.789
Alun Bedding: that's implementing.
00:32:59.819 --> 00:33:04.389
And at the end of every coaching
conversation, and at every coaching
00:33:04.389 --> 00:33:08.309
conversation I'll say this, "What are
you gonna, what are you gonna experiment
00:33:08.309 --> 00:33:11.849
with through your lear- from, as a
consequence of your learning today?"
00:33:12.649 --> 00:33:17.679
Um, and if they say something, I may
then go, "Okay, are you really gonna…
00:33:17.679 --> 00:33:20.609
W- on a, on a level of one to
10, w- how are you gonna…
00:33:20.609 --> 00:33:22.979
You know, what, what's your
level of commitment for that?"
00:33:23.449 --> 00:33:24.449
And get them to commit.
00:33:24.449 --> 00:33:27.379
And also then I say, "How are you
gonna hold yourself accountable?"
00:33:28.469 --> 00:33:31.589
ask- asking all these questions
that, that makes them think,
00:33:32.479 --> 00:33:33.389
yeah, they, they need to hold…
00:33:33.589 --> 00:33:36.449
They need to, to, to, to
e- to practice with this.
00:33:36.659 --> 00:33:40.249
Now, if they come back at the next session
and they haven't done it, their decision.
00:33:40.459 --> 00:33:43.359
Uh, I don't say to them, "Well,
you haven't done that," you know,
00:33:43.389 --> 00:33:44.429
"You should have done this."
00:33:44.809 --> 00:33:49.579
If they come to me and say, "Oh, what we
d- discussed about last time, I haven't
00:33:49.579 --> 00:33:50.689
really done much," and blah, blah, blah.
00:33:50.809 --> 00:33:53.469
I may, I may ask the question,
"Well, what's going on?
00:33:54.128 --> 00:33:54.248
Scott: Ja.
00:33:54.429 --> 00:33:54.899
Alun Bedding: stopping
00:33:55.168 --> 00:33:55.329
Scott: Ja
00:33:55.779 --> 00:33:58.639
Alun Bedding: What, what, what have
you learned by that experience?"
00:33:59.489 --> 00:34:02.279
It, it's those sort of questions,
but it's not a necessary…
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:03.639
I don't call it homework.
00:34:03.639 --> 00:34:03.889
I don't…
00:34:03.899 --> 00:34:05.879
There's no such thing
as homework in coaching.
00:34:06.649 --> 00:34:11.479
But what you definitely say is correct,
what happens outside of the coaching
00:34:11.479 --> 00:34:16.089
room is much more powerful than what
happens inside the coaching room, because
00:34:16.099 --> 00:34:17.769
that's where the experimentation where…
00:34:17.769 --> 00:34:20.139
And a lot of the, the what happens is what
00:34:20.361 --> 00:34:20.641
Scott: The block half of this block that
00:34:21.869 --> 00:34:24.469
Alun Bedding: um, not necessarily
what happens in the coaching
00:34:25.683 --> 00:34:27.193
Scott: Okay, so, so AI.
00:34:27.323 --> 00:34:29.763
Uh, AI-based coaching.
00:34:30.043 --> 00:34:34.893
Uh, I, by the way, they, m- my,
my son did this with golf is he
00:34:34.893 --> 00:34:39.963
puts his golf swing in and, and AI
tells him how to improve his game.
00:34:40.203 --> 00:34:44.513
Can I do that with my career, with,
you know, uh, you know, just use AI?
00:34:46.283 --> 00:34:50.783
Alun Bedding: So, yeah, no, this is--
and AI, AI coaching at the moment is one
00:34:50.783 --> 00:34:52.763
of the big topics, has been for a while.
00:34:52.923 --> 00:34:56.303
Um, and I attended an International
Coaching Federation conference
00:34:56.763 --> 00:34:59.043
earlier this year where it
was one of the big topics.
00:34:59.823 --> 00:35:05.653
Um, and there's a lot of, uh,
companies developing AI coaches.
00:35:05.653 --> 00:35:07.893
I'm, I'm developing one
for myself, by the way.
00:35:08.683 --> 00:35:08.873
I…
00:35:08.913 --> 00:35:11.303
Here's my, my take on AI coaching.
00:35:11.303 --> 00:35:19.253
If you want a conversation with
something, so I want some coaching on
00:35:20.103 --> 00:35:22.553
m-my goal, I wanna get, get a better goal.
00:35:22.873 --> 00:35:26.533
And so if it's just that sort of question
and answer type stuff, or if you're
00:35:26.533 --> 00:35:31.543
following a particular coaching model,
AI coaching will do that perfectly.
00:35:32.433 --> 00:35:36.663
Where the better coaches come in is
where they can bring themselves into it.
00:35:36.923 --> 00:35:39.143
You know, I'm, I'm sensing something's…
00:35:39.183 --> 00:35:41.713
You know, when I, when I'm in a
coaching session, I, I may say,
00:35:41.713 --> 00:35:45.153
"I'm sensing something's going wrong
here," or, "I'm sensing you're not
00:35:45.153 --> 00:35:46.743
feeling, you're not feeling brilliant."
00:35:47.273 --> 00:35:48.673
AI is not gonna do that.
00:35:49.003 --> 00:35:56.163
Um, I, I would also c-encourage
people not to go to ChatGPT or Claude
00:35:56.163 --> 00:35:58.883
or something like that to do their
coaching, because they, they're
00:35:58.883 --> 00:36:01.293
not trained on coaching models.
00:36:01.773 --> 00:36:02.543
Whereas y-you…
00:36:02.583 --> 00:36:04.573
An AI coach, you can train it on a model.
00:36:04.823 --> 00:36:09.173
Um, a-and, and as we know, all models
are wrong, but some are useful.
00:36:09.513 --> 00:36:10.253
Um,
00:36:10.377 --> 00:36:10.517
Scott: Hmm.
00:36:10.553 --> 00:36:12.523
Alun Bedding: it's exactly
the same with an AI coach.
00:36:12.563 --> 00:36:16.483
You- whatever model you put in it,
it's not gonna be that human, the
00:36:16.493 --> 00:36:20.513
best, the best coaches out there are
the ones that are bringing themselves
00:36:20.513 --> 00:36:25.253
into the conversation, being a lot
more human and a lot more, uh, about
00:36:25.253 --> 00:36:28.223
how they're feeling and getting the
person to think how they're feeling.
00:36:28.593 --> 00:36:30.033
Your AI coach is never gonna ask you
00:36:30.073 --> 00:36:30.273
Scott: questionable,
00:36:30.623 --> 00:36:31.953
Alun Bedding: "Well, where
are you feeling that in
00:36:31.983 --> 00:36:32.133
Scott: but you're feeling
00:36:33.083 --> 00:36:33.193
Alun Bedding: You
00:36:33.213 --> 00:36:33.273
Scott: like you're falling quickly
00:36:33.303 --> 00:36:34.633
Alun Bedding: where are
you feeling that stress?
00:36:34.663 --> 00:36:35.413
Where are you feeling that…"
00:36:35.423 --> 00:36:38.503
When you ask that question,
what's going on in your body?
00:36:38.693 --> 00:36:40.453
The, the AI coach is not gonna ask that.
00:36:41.759 --> 00:36:45.979
Scott: It's interesting, and there's
a parallel to statisticians in,
00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:48.989
in, in trial design statisticians.
00:36:49.499 --> 00:36:53.709
AI can do a lot of things for
statisticians, but does it
00:36:53.709 --> 00:36:56.649
ask the question, "Are you
sure that's the right goal?
00:36:56.649 --> 00:36:58.179
Are you sure this is trying to do the…
00:36:58.299 --> 00:37:00.069
What about this, or what about that?"
00:37:00.069 --> 00:37:04.709
So I think there are parallels there
that I don't think you, you can replace
00:37:04.709 --> 00:37:11.059
a good statistician with an AI, but AI
can greatly enhance th- them in that
00:37:12.075 --> 00:37:13.255
Alun Bedding: And that's
the, that's the key.
00:37:13.275 --> 00:37:14.405
It's that enhancement.
00:37:14.415 --> 00:37:19.445
And coming back to your statistic
example, what AI, i- if you put in
00:37:19.445 --> 00:37:23.555
there, "This is my, the objective of my
study," well, AI is gonna come up with
00:37:23.555 --> 00:37:26.045
a Bayesian adaptive platform trial.
00:37:27.095 --> 00:37:28.495
They're not gonna come
up with that, are they?
00:37:28.555 --> 00:37:29.445
They're not gonna come up with it.
00:37:29.445 --> 00:37:32.115
I- I mean, it's gonna take them
a- a forever to come up with that.
00:37:32.585 --> 00:37:35.455
Whereas you could use it and say,
"Well, I'm exploring this topic.
00:37:35.465 --> 00:37:39.875
Can you give me some papers
that, uh, uh, are on this topic?"
00:37:41.005 --> 00:37:47.125
and I, you know, my, one of my coaches,
he has his own AI coach, and he w- what
00:37:47.125 --> 00:37:51.945
he will do is put some of the questions
in there, and he'll say, "Oh, let's ask my
00:37:51.945 --> 00:37:53.815
AI what, what, what they think of that."
00:37:54.205 --> 00:37:56.695
And it can provoke an,
a different question.
00:37:56.695 --> 00:37:58.125
It can provoke a little bit of movement.
00:37:58.155 --> 00:38:01.435
So AI's not gonna go away.
00:38:01.505 --> 00:38:04.385
AI coaching as well is gonna become
bigger and bigger and bigger.
00:38:04.855 --> 00:38:10.515
So we need to work out a way of
integrating AI into coaching similar to
00:38:10.525 --> 00:38:13.345
what we're, we're, I think we're, we're,
we're doing within drug development
00:38:15.439 --> 00:38:15.669
Scott: I think we, we, we're doing
within drug development So being a
00:38:15.669 --> 00:38:22.279
quantitative person, do you take value
in things like a Myers-Briggs test or a
00:38:22.279 --> 00:38:25.569
quantitative test, uh, uh, about people?
00:38:25.819 --> 00:38:27.719
Does that help you as a coach?
00:38:27.749 --> 00:38:35.769
Or you seem like a, um, a, a, a, a human,
you know, I'm trying to perceive what's
00:38:35.769 --> 00:38:39.489
going on, I'm trying to perceive this,
but is there value in something like that?
00:38:40.619 --> 00:38:42.379
Alun Bedding: There, there
can be a lot of value.
00:38:42.419 --> 00:38:47.029
I don't pers- I, I, I am trained in what's
called the Leadership Circle Profile,
00:38:47.989 --> 00:38:52.929
which is a, a, a, a thing we used to use
at Roche to, to, to evaluate our leaders.
00:38:54.749 --> 00:38:58.429
I don't use that in my
coaching because it's more…
00:38:58.669 --> 00:39:00.419
It's, it, it's gonna lead people.
00:39:00.429 --> 00:39:04.889
So if I see somebody's LCP, uh, and I go,
"Well, I think we should be focusing on
00:39:04.889 --> 00:39:06.699
this," that's me, me now stepping out.
00:39:06.699 --> 00:39:09.759
I'm not a coach anymore because
I'm leading the conversation.
00:39:10.259 --> 00:39:15.409
However, if, if say somebody does a
Myers-Briggs and they recognize there's
00:39:15.419 --> 00:39:19.589
some trait they wanna work on, may
bring that to coaching, but that's
00:39:19.589 --> 00:39:21.409
their choice to bring that to coaching.
00:39:21.769 --> 00:39:28.889
Um, so, so I, I'm not a massive fan
of them, but I, I, I think they can
00:39:28.939 --> 00:39:30.579
ha- Again, they're like any model.
00:39:30.749 --> 00:39:31.869
They have their benefits.
00:39:32.199 --> 00:39:32.549
They might
00:39:32.921 --> 00:39:33.501
Scott: they might
identify some blind spots
00:39:33.569 --> 00:39:36.399
Alun Bedding: blind spots to,
to start with, and to start that
00:39:36.399 --> 00:39:37.859
coaching off in the first place
00:39:39.161 --> 00:39:44.301
Scott: So, uh, y- you as a coach,
different than the person you're coaching,
00:39:44.691 --> 00:39:48.101
um, how do you know if you're successful?
00:39:49.917 --> 00:39:52.767
Alun Bedding: Um, you don't always.
00:39:52.857 --> 00:39:53.227
Scott: Yeah
00:39:54.147 --> 00:39:57.717
Alun Bedding: it, it can just be
sometimes they, they will turn around
00:39:57.717 --> 00:40:02.407
and go, "Wow, I can't believe I've
got the answer to my question."
00:40:02.417 --> 00:40:05.437
And, and something may make
a shift, and I'm like, "Oh, I
00:40:05.437 --> 00:40:06.537
don't know what's gone on here.
00:40:06.597 --> 00:40:07.767
I don't know what's happened."
00:40:08.837 --> 00:40:09.577
I don't dig in.
00:40:09.577 --> 00:40:09.817
I know…
00:40:09.877 --> 00:40:10.767
I've had that happen.
00:40:10.797 --> 00:40:14.627
I've had that co- I was coaching, when
I was coaching somebody in Rosh where I
00:40:14.627 --> 00:40:19.547
asked this one question, and of a sudden
this flood of stuff came out, and at the
00:40:19.547 --> 00:40:23.947
end she went, "I've got so much in this
conversation, and I still don't know to
00:40:23.947 --> 00:40:25.957
this day what it, what it was all about."
00:40:26.517 --> 00:40:27.807
I'm like, "Really?
00:40:27.857 --> 00:40:29.267
I've no idea of that one."
00:40:30.377 --> 00:40:32.397
So yeah, it, it, it, it can be.
00:40:32.397 --> 00:40:40.137
And I, I've had coaching myself and where
just happened, and I'm like, that…
00:40:40.147 --> 00:40:41.627
How did I come by that answer?
00:40:41.627 --> 00:40:43.237
I don't know where that came from."
00:40:43.727 --> 00:40:46.177
And my coach has just looked at
me and gone, "I, I don't think…
00:40:46.297 --> 00:40:48.957
I, I, I couldn't see if
that was a success or not."
00:40:49.347 --> 00:40:50.767
And, and you don't often know.
00:40:50.777 --> 00:40:51.367
You could…
00:40:51.637 --> 00:40:54.967
I mean, at the end of a coaching
conversation, I may say, um, you
00:40:54.967 --> 00:40:56.237
know, "Has this worked for you?"
00:40:56.247 --> 00:40:58.977
Or, you know, "What are, what
are you taking away from this?"
00:40:58.977 --> 00:41:02.247
Or I'll never ask, you know, "Has
it been g- been, been good for you?"
00:41:02.277 --> 00:41:04.607
Because I'm asking there,
"Have I been good for
00:41:04.723 --> 00:41:04.863
Scott: Right.
00:41:05.327 --> 00:41:09.237
Alun Bedding: Um, it's more a case
of, you know, been a success for you?"
00:41:10.967 --> 00:41:14.207
you know, "Have you got what
you needed for today from this?"
00:41:14.677 --> 00:41:18.407
Um, and someti- and, and sometimes it m-
uh, we come back to after the session,
00:41:18.787 --> 00:41:22.077
they may come back to me and say,
"Oh, um, that experiment, I tried it.
00:41:22.447 --> 00:41:23.337
Fabulous.
00:41:23.437 --> 00:41:25.527
It was a really real big success."
00:41:26.807 --> 00:41:27.737
it, it's…
00:41:28.127 --> 00:41:31.707
You don't always know it's gonna be
a success, and sometimes it's not.
00:41:31.917 --> 00:41:34.137
Sometimes coaching
doesn't work for somebody.
00:41:35.737 --> 00:41:37.197
and, and that's fine as well.
00:41:37.247 --> 00:41:38.287
They step out of coaching.
00:41:38.287 --> 00:41:40.547
They've explored it, but they s- if
they wanna step out, they step out
00:41:42.927 --> 00:41:49.637
Scott: Is there advice to people out
there listening as to, um, who, who
00:41:49.637 --> 00:41:52.197
would be ideal for, for coaching?
00:41:52.197 --> 00:41:55.237
I, uh, to some extent is the
answer you think everybody would,
00:41:55.277 --> 00:41:56.887
would get benefit out of this?
00:41:57.227 --> 00:42:01.457
Are, are, are there ideal people
out there listening where some level
00:42:01.457 --> 00:42:03.297
of coaching would be beneficial?
00:42:04.555 --> 00:42:08.555
Alun Bedding: I, I would say if you've
got a question, I'm not gonna say a
00:42:08.555 --> 00:42:13.135
problem, but if you've got a question
in your mind about something, then
00:42:13.145 --> 00:42:14.815
you might benefit from coaching.
00:42:15.125 --> 00:42:18.485
But what I'd then say is, make
sure you're ready for coaching.
00:42:18.485 --> 00:42:22.475
Make sure you're, you want coaching,
because coaching's hard work.
00:42:22.535 --> 00:42:26.485
It's not about coming to me and
me then saying, "Well, this is
00:42:26.515 --> 00:42:27.435
how you need to do your problem."
00:42:27.665 --> 00:42:31.515
No, I'm gonna work you through
how you can solve that, how to
00:42:31.515 --> 00:42:32.665
answer that question yourself.
00:42:33.015 --> 00:42:35.905
So, you're gonna have to do a lot
of work and a lot of deep thinking.
00:42:36.385 --> 00:42:40.235
Um, and it can be tiring, and
not everybody wants to do that.
00:42:40.455 --> 00:42:41.645
Some people want the answer.
00:42:41.685 --> 00:42:45.565
But the, the real successful people
will love coaching because…
00:42:46.465 --> 00:42:49.655
I don't know, I don't know about you,
but whenever I've thought of something
00:42:49.655 --> 00:42:54.955
myself, I've always be- felt better than
if somebody's given me the solution.
00:42:55.875 --> 00:43:01.685
Um, so, so yeah, anybody, anybody who's
out there who's got a question or a big
00:43:01.705 --> 00:43:03.855
question, it could even be a big question.
00:43:04.625 --> 00:43:07.075
I'm, I'm starting working with
somebody soon, and they've said,
00:43:07.445 --> 00:43:09.355
"I've got so many big questions."
00:43:09.765 --> 00:43:11.075
I'm like, "Well, brilliant.
00:43:11.115 --> 00:43:13.365
Let's explore these big questions."
00:43:14.675 --> 00:43:17.375
and it'll be br- we'll break
it down into small chunks.
00:43:17.515 --> 00:43:21.215
And, and, you know, where I wanna
move them is up and up and up.
00:43:21.225 --> 00:43:22.595
So it, it's, um…
00:43:23.415 --> 00:43:25.305
I think you've got to
be ready for coaching.
00:43:25.305 --> 00:43:26.635
You got, you've got to be coachable.
00:43:27.515 --> 00:43:28.805
Not everybody's coachable.
00:43:29.705 --> 00:43:32.725
Um, a- and, and I…
00:43:32.725 --> 00:43:33.275
W- when I…
00:43:33.365 --> 00:43:38.685
Before I coach anybody, I will do a, a,
what's, what's called a discovery session.
00:43:39.675 --> 00:43:41.865
of that discovery session
is a coaching session.
00:43:42.605 --> 00:43:43.895
It's not a chemistry
00:43:44.089 --> 00:43:44.389
Scott: Yeah
00:43:44.415 --> 00:43:45.325
Alun Bedding: or anything like that.
00:43:45.695 --> 00:43:48.465
It's about discovering are they coachable.
00:43:49.175 --> 00:43:51.395
Um, and if they…
00:43:51.395 --> 00:43:53.985
And, and, and they may discover
am I the right coach for them,
00:43:53.985 --> 00:43:56.715
but I wanna make sure they're
the right person for me to coach.
00:43:57.515 --> 00:43:57.845
I'll do…
00:43:57.875 --> 00:43:59.935
It's almost like a demo
coaching session with.
00:43:59.935 --> 00:44:04.175
It's a real coaching session, but
it's more for me to understand, you
00:44:04.175 --> 00:44:06.045
know, are they ready to be coached?
00:44:06.383 --> 00:44:06.613
Scott: Yeah.
00:44:06.805 --> 00:44:07.615
Alun Bedding: a sense of that.
00:44:07.703 --> 00:44:07.973
Scott: Yeah.
00:44:08.623 --> 00:44:09.863
Yeah, fantastic.
00:44:09.863 --> 00:44:12.833
Uh, uh, uh, it's such, such cool stuff.
00:44:12.863 --> 00:44:18.593
If you, if you want to look up, uh,
Alan, uh, alanbettingcoaching.com,
00:44:18.653 --> 00:44:23.893
and you can sign up for this free,
free intro session, uh, with that.
00:44:23.903 --> 00:44:25.813
So Alan, appreciate it.
00:44:25.813 --> 00:44:27.603
Very interesting conversation.
00:44:27.613 --> 00:44:29.053
Thank you for coming on.
00:44:29.163 --> 00:44:30.633
Uh, thank you for joining me.
00:44:30.637 --> 00:44:31.127
Alun Bedding: very much.
00:44:31.207 --> 00:44:32.697
Well, the other place to connect
00:44:32.823 --> 00:44:33.043
Scott: Yeah
00:44:33.357 --> 00:44:36.217
Alun Bedding: uh, I'm not on any
social media apart from LinkedIn.
00:44:36.607 --> 00:44:38.257
So I am on LinkedIn.
00:44:38.297 --> 00:44:42.387
There's only one Alan Bedding, I
think, on LinkedIn, so that person
00:44:43.615 --> 00:44:46.035
Scott: Uh, the, the one
and only Alan Bedding.
00:44:46.445 --> 00:44:47.445
Uh, yes.
00:44:47.865 --> 00:44:52.335
Uh, uh, thank you for joining me,
and for everybody else out there,
00:44:52.405 --> 00:44:54.955
appreciate you joining on the episode.
00:44:54.955 --> 00:44:58.315
And until next time, we'll
be here in the interim