speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, I see we're going live. I see what you're trying to here, Flum. You're trying to trap me in the midst of a conversation. Okay.
speaker-1: Yes, I am. No, I could I could bring him in and into this, which is Moses has a problem and we're gonna talk about it today a little bit to start, which is we don't care about the counter strike major. We're here for the magic counter strike talent major. Who is winning it? What do we got? Who who's running what? What are the rules? Who's winning? Who's the top dog?
speaker-0: I don't know. I don't think we really have an a well you know, I'm I think I guess I would be towards the top of the hierarchy, so I really don't care about what comes beneath me. Damn. I think we don't really have any crazy rules. True, it's Stinko's pride.
speaker-2: Coming second is an honorable endeavor, Jason. Honorable second place. You always want to come second.
speaker-0: In honorable second place. yeah, we just established like the three game changer max per deck and like you know nobody no tutors, like you know, we're trying to just make sure nobody comes in with any surprises, keep things nice and even, fun games, have a good time, that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who
speaker-1: Who would do it? Who would do it? If somebody was gonna like you had to pick one person who's breaking the rules or would try to, or who's gonna skirt the line?
speaker-0: I don't think anyone's going to skirt the line or break the rules. If anyone's gonna give a crack at it, it's gonna be hairy.
speaker-1: You can't.
speaker-2: Definitely, definitely be Harry.
speaker-0: Okay.
speaker-1: Care.
speaker-2: I have not played Harrier since the beginning of Magic when I started playing, but I've heard many a thing about a certain Eldrazi deck which destroys half your shit off the table, so I'm not looking forward to playing against that for sure.
speaker-1: So that's that's the that's the magic major for the casting talent. That's the w that's actually what I'm gonna be more interested in. I'll be keeping tabs. What do you mean, of course?
speaker-0: Can't believe I can't believe we opened up with Magic the Gathering. Here we
speaker-1: Literal play. But like it's just yeah, it's just cardboard crack, man. No big deal. Well we'll go into I guess a little bit more I guess we won't go right into the teams. I was telling you guys before. What do you so what do you guys think? I'll bunch these together. Change the payout structure of the stickers, and then how you guys feeling about the BO3s being added in in certain stage. You guys like it, dislike it, you guys feel like it's like anything. Does this change the feeling? Because at least for me when like the major happened, it was kind of getting old, like watching teams just like Be whatever about being knocked out in the major. Do you think like this actually solves anything or anything like that? Or is this just like a whatever change that doesn't really mean much to the players, do you think?
speaker-0: Anytime I well, I mean, I think the players love it. And I think we we we should all love it. Anytime you make an entire stage of the major BO threes all the way through, like take away all the best of ones and take away that element of it, the randomness of a B O one MR twelve. I think everyone in this scene has gotta be celebrating, especially 'cause I think it's in a good place too. It's not the whole thing, it's just that third stage where you get the best teams in the world. And the major should be the most difficult gauntlet to run. So anytime the format gets more difficult, I like that for the prestigious nature of the event as well. and and yeah, I think ⁓ you know We we took away some randomness over the years, but obviously now it's like not having to drop down O and one off just some like random actually O and two, couldn't it be? Because like one bad day was was your was your B01 days. So I mean you could have one shitty day and just get kind of really punished. ⁓ especially for teams who are coming in cold to teams who have already been at the environment. We already have those conversations every single stage, every single major. ⁓ now you get more chances to kind of recover and bounce back from that as well.
speaker-1: What do you think about the payout structure? You think like that's a good feeling? That's I kind of blended those two together a little bit there. So like I I was like I think it's huge. I think it's great. Cause I'm tired of everybody like I don't I feel bad because the orgs at the bottom I feel like need the money the most. So it d it it does like her affect that a little bit. But like also or like the players as well. But I was kinda also getting a little worn out from seeing teams almost not be happy, but like You got eliminated from the major and very rarely I feel like the exception of a couple teams and personalities, it it would almost like feel like they were just happy to be there and they were fine with being knocked out. Not all the teams were like that, but there it was more even one team looking like that at the major kind of feels shitty. So do you guys like what do you guys think about it?
speaker-2: I think when the RMRs are kind of boring because like we're actually the other way around the RMRs were super fun because you would have these underdog teams who would like qualify through the RMRs to be like, ⁓ that's crazy. Like they just made it. They got a sticker in the game. But then that was kind of the end of the hype story line around them because I think they were pretty happy to be at the major, right? Like in their expectations would drop once they get to the major. Now there's like more of an incentive of to build a brand outside of the game and more popular players are going to have obviously more of a reward for that. So I think there's more incentive for the players. the organization's obviously build a brand for their players and also like it kind of removes that factor that you're mentioning where it's just like everyone who qualified for the major a lot of teams were just super happy to just make it we get the sticker money guaranteed we'll just piggyback off the back of one of these capsules of say a team doesn't perform very well you got a popular team in there everyone's gonna buy like the Challenger stage capsule and then this team who puts no effort into the branding sometimes like organizations that you read in the future have come out and not paid their players very well their staff and there's like they're just they're just like I ⁓ think it gets rid of lot of the incentives for bad faith actors who are like organizations that aren't necessarily set up in a very sound way and don't have a great pile to the players. ⁓ I like that side of it, but then also, yeah, I do see the idea of like if you're a smaller organization, I mean, just think of organizations like Game Allegiant, even. mean, that's another organization that is a bit of a conversation at the moment. But like that's an org that got, were able to maintain competitive or into the breach an organization in the past. You know, a team that did well at the Paris major and somehow got a bunch of sticker money and kept them afloat for a little while, but it wasn't enough to eventually turn them into a profitable business. think this in the long term has more of. ⁓ lean towards the incentive of building a better business structure and try to actually shine some light on your players to make them popular and I like that they're gonna get a reward for that.
speaker-0: Well it feels like also they're trying to the stickers now more reward 'cause they're allocated due to VRS, right? So Yeah, so you're rewarded more for the season, I guess it would be overall than than Yeah. Okay, cool.
speaker-1: Yeah, your seating. Yeah, your VRS seating. Yeah, well and it updates mid tournament too. So so like mid major, like if you perform well, you'll you'll get updated throughout the major and that'll affect your payout structure.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: I mean just to just to be a little bit of a counterpoint, because I I haven't looked through all the details of this. I just kinda have like a surface level understanding of it. I would say, you know, it is a little bit scary because while you guys take the angle of like the bad faith actors, I also know how many orcs there have been over the years who are like kind of reliant on getting that that money just just to be able to operate and just to be able to keep the doors open and be able to actually sustain a business. So that that part's kind of I think that's probably the big worrying thing you'd want to keep eyes on. ⁓ because I almost like on some level I'm almost like I'd rather have those people. people rewarded than you know like anyone just like happy to be at the major like you should be like some teams don't don't have the chance to have the ass like let's be fucking real. There are some teams that just don't have a chance of winning the major. I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry. ⁓ so like there should be teams there are teams who should just be happy to be at the major. I don't like inherently think that's a bad thing. And I'd rather I'd rather Yeah exactly. And they're fucking jumping for joy. They're fucking living the dream right now, aren't they?
speaker-1: Liquid, right? I can't help myself.
speaker-0: I know. You had to get the dagger. ⁓ but you know, like I you know, that that's the other angle I'd take is I just know over the years how many teams were so reliant on that, which equally isn't a good thing to be that reliant on just qualifying it to it, but like sometimes that's just the way the industry kind of works right now is ⁓ You know, just just sometimes that that's just what they have to rely on. So I don't know. I think it's I think it's kinda cool. ⁓ I'm interested to see how the all the player individual stickers and everything bumps up and down and prices go crazy. That's obviously gonna be huge thing that that people are gonna be following. Yeah, it's like it's like another angle of the community that just get to be a little bit more invested, you know, like in terms of their attention. So it's kinda cool. I guess that just services like you know, the part of the industry that more likes the skins and sticker reselling and value and investment, etc.
speaker-2: stock market. I would say a large part of it as well like if you look through the release It mentions the fact that not in all regions you can't buy the capsules rather some reasons where it's just not illegal or allowed to purchase the capsules because it's seen close to Gambling or and certain laws are a little bit tight on that in some regions So I think that's it as an idea that kind of throws out the blanket and make sure everything is kind of the same across the board and some reasons we have to buy the x-ray case because you have you can't exactly just Open a key and randomize like in most nations. So I think the idea for valve is to try and like Make it pretty consistent across every nation that they operate in which definitely helps here and I do think it has just another level of interest into the enthusiasts who are into this whole edge I think stickers for me. I used to not even buy them when they first came out
speaker-0: How are you buying ⁓ Dinko?
speaker-2: No, I'm lie I have other purchases I must make right now Jason ⁓ You know, but I look at the stickers overall like I would just wait for the sale to happen like I didn't really you know I shouldn't shouldn't be doing that should be supporting the game I was I just went to that sale comes cuz they're all like eight to eighteen cents Like why am gonna spend a couple of dollars when I can spend it?
speaker-1: He's buying magic cards, bro. He ain't buying stick. Yeah, why not, right?
speaker-2: Yeah, now it's now you actually have people are gonna be buying the stickers on the lead-up to the major and I think in the end like buying your favorite player sticker It's probably gonna be pretty unaffordable for for most actually like I've just watched some of these stickers go to ridiculous prices so far Which really makes me wish I did buy them
speaker-0: Am I reading in here that they also like they also have like built in protection for like some kind of like meme pump and dump to like push a signature? Price change? Yeah, though a partial re that'd be a fucking great name for it. I hope they actually do that in do that in the next update. Thank you, Dingo.
speaker-1: Yeah, there's like some like
speaker-2: That's a dick Stacy clause stick
speaker-1: Stacey clothes. Actually opening up my game right now to see if I can see what the price of one of them is. Because I think Donk was something like over a hundred dollars already for one screen. I think I want to make sure I'm not crazy. Let's see. Yeah, Brolin at fifteen hundred coins. Let's see, what is that? Okay, yeah. Yeah, some of the Yeah, it moves up and down. You can like I don't know. Yeah, it's pretty wicked if you guys go into the actual game and take a look at it. It is a pretty wicked system overall. Like ⁓ that
speaker-2: I seen Yanko tweeted like one of the good things he liked about it was that the the tournament organizers got to keep 5 % Yes, I think replied to him saying that was always the case, but I mean in regard regardless it's cool He's like he's like well cool. I guess I'm glad they kept that But yeah, I mean I didn't know that so that was good good to a good little reveal for me Messiosa understood it, but I was in the same boat as Yanko where I was like oh, that's pretty sick like if the
speaker-0: Shit.
speaker-2: Tio is getting 5 % of sticker money. I mean we like that because we work for the to but also it's good for cars
speaker-0: That's right.
speaker-2: Don't phrase it like that Jason, how else am I meant to buy these cars?
speaker-0: We are we are infesti we we appreciate and understand the predicament that they are sometimes in and anything that helps them get through the trials and tribulations of being a professional tournament operator in the space, they should get.
speaker-1: Ten more finals for Moses. Ten more finals for Moses immediately. But also, no, he's right. Yeah, no, he is right. But wait, hold on. Before we'll get into the fun stuff here in a second, the actual things that people are probably listening to this for. We'll talk about the major for real. But wait. What if you guys had to guess, how much do you think Donk's gold sticker is right now? If you had to guess.
speaker-2: $400.
speaker-0: ⁓ Jesus, this is gonna be stupid, isn't it? Problem is I really have been looking at magic cards whole the whole day, so I just see the inflation. I just see the explosion of price of the red
speaker-2: $400, $400 I'm going with.
speaker-1: One sticker, one sticker.
speaker-0: I'm going above that just because it feels like Flom's really hitting this one. ⁓ wait, no. The one sticker thing. Two fifty.
speaker-1: ⁓ you got you you you were you should have stuck with your gut initially. It is as of this moment seven hundred it's seven hundred and thirty six dollars and eighty seven cents for one gold donk sticker.
speaker-2: I wish I bought a bunch of them.
speaker-1: That's crazy.
speaker-0: Wait, wait, is it is it this is my brain is kinda broken right now, so give me a minute. Is it is it is it like magic where there is like, you know, that's a gold sticker. Can you get like a silver sticker or like left sticker?
speaker-1: Yes, there are other to give you context, Zaiwo's is three hundred and fifty-eight. Yeah, so Donk has got a I mean given the regions and who's probably you know got a a bigger fan base. I think Donk at the end of the day is probably gonna win that most of the time. Alright, all right, all right. Enough memeing around. That was that was Yeah. Well we'll get right into a fun one that's kind of
speaker-2: oils and glitters and stuff like that.
speaker-0: Okay. Yeah.
speaker-1: fun but also just what you have to ask and what I want to hear from you guys like all right who's is anyone gonna beat Vitality for Cologne? Let's go come on let's start the circle let's see what we got here
speaker-0: Wait, do you wanna know if I think somebody's gonna beat them or if if I think there's somebody who can beat them? How far you want this
speaker-1: Let's start with i is anybody going to take this major from vitality? Let's be definitive.
speaker-2: We should all start from last episode where Jason said g2 was the team that were capable of doing it How is that without Jason? ⁓
speaker-1: I'm saying ⁓ no big deal.
speaker-0: It's a fair point, Dinko. I I am very disappointed in in the G2 progression that I that I have not seen. He came in I was lamenting the I I know, he really did. He came in hot prepared for this shit. He went back, watched the last episode, took notes. He was waiting for that moment. ⁓
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. That's actually crazy.
speaker-2: So remember
speaker-0: ⁓ Yeah, they've they've looked ⁓ they haven't made the steps forward that I thought they would. So I mean we'll see coming the major, but I have no reason to be optimistic that we're gonna get any better. I still think they have the ability to, but obviously it's not even close to being there. So I mean I guess if anyone ⁓ the c the question would then become, can Navi do it again? Falcons can you know, they've now made back to back finals, even though they haven't won them. and then Spirit, obviously, the other big one. I don't think legacy, even with that tournament victory, is gonna be propelled into the conversation, but really the only three teams in this conversation are Navi, Spirit, and Falcons.
speaker-1: Yes. Agreed. A hundred percent agreed. Yeah, yeah.
speaker-2: and only Falcons anywhere but a grand final. Like if they meet them in the semi-final, we're good. I think that's a chance.
speaker-1: Even if they catch somebody that they think I'm telling you, Falcons cannot win if they are expected to beat somebody in high pressure situations. If they find them in a quarter final, if they find them in a semi like I swear, man, they just even the wins they get never look like I I will come clean though, I did not watch that final versus legacy. That was at ungodly hours for me. And I was traveling back forth. You watched so I saw clips. Yeah, I definitely watched some of the clips, but I didn't like see the game. But based on the score, it felt like business as usual for Falcons in the sense that they do all right. They win the other team's map pick. They were in a position to bring back the game and win map two. They fumble it and then they just crash the fuck out and lose. And that is what the score sheet at least said to me without watching the game, which is just business as usual. And their T side round was like in terms of what they won, I didn't see them. I'm not gonna pretend like I know. But that was very small amount of T side rounds, which is what Kerrigan's in there to fix. And holy shit, did he just like not shoot anyone? He was on like a pacifist run.
speaker-2: Dude, Cooper's was so good man. Cooper was like, Carrigan just kind of sitting around, was Izzy DMing or is he just kind of sitting around figuring out different ways to rush B? And I seen another more sort of advanced take. Maui tweeted about like just the stat line of Carrigan. He's never won a tournament unless he had above of 0.86 rating or something around that number. yeah, Carrigan really did. to bot out individually like really badly. So, I mean, obviously that's got to improve. that was the hit. That's the biggest worry we had. We're coming into this Falcons team. Like we know what Karagin brings to the team, but he's been struggling in phase for a long time individually. We knew Kixxen was a better frag in in-game leader. So you definitely gonna lose that. You're gonna definitely take a hit and you wonder is the leveling up of Kiyosuke gonna be enough alongside obviously the firepower you got in Niko and Monocy. And I think traditionally that would have been the case, but I think we're seeing in older versions But I think we're seeing now like everyone can frag get that in these better teams, right? And it's you're losing the teams like legacy in the finals ⁓ And do Mao was just shredding them up
speaker-0: What you're trying to say about legacy.
speaker-1: ⁓
speaker-2: They are getting paid as much as falcons and
speaker-0: About money. Don't make it about money. Not inside the server.
speaker-1: Help some other Moses? ⁓ I wanna remind you of this for FML2 that I'm gonna rem I'm gonna hold this.
speaker-0: I'm talking about players.
speaker-2: I have money really matters
speaker-1: Alright.
speaker-0: Inside the server.
speaker-1: ⁓ I mean you're kinda connected usually, right? You're on the you're in Spectate, no TV.
speaker-0: ⁓ not my personal account, you know. It's ⁓ it's more of a tournament operation
speaker-1: Wait, wait, but actually I wanna what the fuck is going on with Nico man? You talk about like relying on Nico for firepower. Holy shit, but not in finals right now, like it's really bad.
speaker-2: Good sometimes.
speaker-0: Why are we relying on Nico for firepower? He's been saying for like the last three months he's taken a step back to let the other guys be the star.
speaker-1: Make ⁓ I GL, man, like pick one!
speaker-0: Okay, I'm not I'm not against that as a theory, but we're past that moment. We brought Kerrigan in. That's a conversation that's not what we're having right now.
speaker-1: I am not subscribing to Nico is just we are not doing the Nico's a role player so he forgot how to fucking headshot people. That is not no, I am not letting that shit fly. I'm
speaker-0: I'm not saying he forgot how to do it. I'm I'm just saying he puts himself in less priority positions and I think he tries to have a different mindset and a more supportive mindset and a more take your time mindset. So I don't think it's like forgot how to headshot. I just think the killer mentality isn't there right now. I think he hasn't hasn't found the killer mentality comfort in what he's trying to now do for the team as he kind of changes his focus. Now you can argue whether that's right or wrong or whether he should be or shouldn't be, but I think that's what's happening with Nico at the moment.
speaker-2: Yeah. I think the mental thing with Nico is definitely a factor like you can't deny that now I mean it's seen so many big finals throughout his career so many big moments I think the the deagle shot from behind on heaven nuke. Yes. It was a big moment I don't think it was as like big as people pointed out to be I think it's kind of this sort of myth has grown into a crazy legend now of that moment But I mean there are definitely worse moments. I think on dust 2 I can't remember what team was against but he's coming out underpass. He has a deagle shot on short the head turn He's missed that here in this final legacy you know coming through cave that was ugly you know he's had a lot of these moments and there's one thing that kind of spring to mind when I was reading because we were in Atlanta and we were like ⁓ while Astana was on And I was following the other game as much as I could in between our breaks when, you know, so we went between maps, so check up on the other match that was on at same time. And one of the headlines that kind of reached out to me and stuck with me is the fact that it says, Nico almost clutches 1v4 versus Spirit. And this is, to me, it's like, yeah, it's like almost clutches. And that is pretty much summarizing Nico to me right now. He gets right there to the finish line. He just, he just can't. Get over it. He just can't finish. And that's the part I think has been the big problem for Niko in his career, Getting to all these finals, getting to all these sick moments in the game. He's like 95 % of the way there. And I think it's the same for Falcons. I think it's the same story for this team. They're almost there. Just one more superstar and they're there. They've got it over the line. yeah, I think for Falcons, are a team that obviously are always going to have a threat. But for me... in all seriousness, yeah, they just lack that killer instinct to finish things. I think that I was really hoping that a win here could start that kickstart that, you if they won this tournament, I think going into the major, I'm a lot more excited about them because they kind of get over that mental hurdle. If not, then yeah, I feel like it's gonna be.
speaker-0: Actually happy with them right now. They got the two finals in a row. I'm fine. Like I don't know how much more you know, it'd be it'd be nice if they won one, especially over Legacy where you're a bigger but Legacies looked better as well under art, so that's been kinda cool to watch. So that one doesn't surprise me and a Brazilian team hitting a little bit of a leg.
speaker-1: Surprised you that Legacy beat Falcons three one?
speaker-0: ⁓ no, it doesn't surprise me that Falcons lost the grand final in which they were favored in this situation, but I'm happy they made it to the final. Like you want to talk about Kixon being a better fragging IGL. It's like what does that matter when he they weren't getting to finals with him? You know there is a Kerrigan difference going on.
speaker-2: finals of Hey Man.
speaker-1: But they did. They they fade away. No not recently. So we're just rinse we're just doing the G two thing. We're just green G two now with Monasy and Nico. We're just
speaker-0: Guys, it's it's it's potentially the greatest in-game leader of all time. You're not telling me you're gonna fucking party.
speaker-1: I like Kerrigan Moses. I don't care. I'm gonna I you have to be criticized. You cannot You can still be the gun and still be ass in that final and that was what he did.
speaker-0: What is it It's not great.
speaker-2: I would definitely be on your side a little bit more in this Jason and be happier more positive if If you look at the runs though, like the teams they beat on the way. It's a it's a little More concerning right they lose to in Astana. They lose to 9k 27 Monty they lose a map to the Mongols. They beat Fiora her in decline and then they beat magic Second place to say What I mean is yes getting to the finals good
speaker-1: Taylor.
speaker-0: Where did they get Nastana? Where did they finish? Okay.
speaker-2: but I feel less confident in them because you beat Legacy 2-0 earlier in the CES Asia Championships and they lose in 3-1 in the final. To me, I think it's just a highlight of just like, it's obviously.
speaker-0: I'm not trying I'm not trying to sit here and say they don't have fucking issues. Like I'm just you know, I've just said two finals in a row off the back of Kerrigan joining with minimal practice. Now they get two to three weeks off. There's I don't know if they're gonna be better, but I mean I think we have to maintain the potential. I think I think they can beat Vitality in a best of three. I don't think they can beat Vitality in the final.
speaker-2: It's like hooksy.
speaker-1: I'll try to like keep it shorter here so and then cause I just feel like we're well I feel like I'm just hating on Fal I know, I know. So but like ⁓ do you think it's because they just added Kerrigan as southeam smell or do you think they actually are building something? See, I don't believe it's real. I think it's faux. I think I think they're not really building anything. That's why I get so frustrated. Who the fuck cares? Well I do because they shouldn't be sh
speaker-0: We've only focused on Falcons. All I care about with Falcons is the major. After the major
speaker-1: I know that's what I'm saying. So do you think they're like actually building towards the major or like so you think with the two finals, that's like legit. Like they're building something good that like they're they're they're progressing something. I guess we you guys were working in Atlanta and I didn't see, so maybe you don't feel comfortable saying that like
speaker-0: Yeah, I didn't see I haven't seen much of a stunt on a lot of the Falcons games are just on my watch list for the flight. So I haven't gone in depth on any of them yet. ⁓ but let's just say this is a general statement is that Kerrigan fragging issues aside, well fragging issues spotlighted, those are in theory going to get better. Maybe not better in terms of number, but better in terms of quality and impact. Because even when FaZe was at their best Kerrigan wasn't some fucking sick fragger boat. Kerrigan's always been really, really good at is understanding when the moment is for him to make a play that will change things, that will have impact. And Kerrigan has a weird habit of finding like a 1v3, a 1v2. When you need it most, for no good reason, he turns into a god in that moment, wins you one important round a game. That's all you need out of him because this team is for Monasi, for Kiyosuke, and it's for Nico as that third star. So Nico doesn't even need to have those pop-off crazy numbers. That's gonna be for Manasi Kiyosuke. Nico's just gotta be rock solid, which admittedly has always been an issue of them. So yeah, I think Falcons is a team you can't write up at all. I think two grand finals in a row shows a positive sign. Yeah, I would have liked to have seen them beat Legacy in that grand final. They would have liked to have had a trophy right before the major, but ⁓ shit, I think they're gonna be perfectly happy with two grand finals, two second places. And now we just gotta see what they're gonna show up to because the pressure's only gonna get bigger on them, and the pressure is gonna be on them every single game they play. at the major, not just playoff games, not just elimination games. It's going to be if we don't fucking win this game, we're gonna have to avoid social media until our next game tomorrow because everyone's gonna be fucking laughing at us. Yeah. So it's all gonna be there. It's just like for this team, the major decides everything. And it's not that I don't care what comes next, it's that I'm not even letting myself think past the major with this team at this point.
speaker-2: I mean Yeah, I mean that was your question, Flam, is the idea of like for Falcons, is any team going to be able to beat Vitality? you know, you look at the resources Falcons have, the players they've got, I get that was, that's the whole frame I'm going with. You know, I don't think it's necessarily like disappointing to see them make two finals in a row this early with Carrigan. That it's not disappointing. It's just in the context of, are they going to be able to beat Vitality in a meaningful game? That's the other side of things. And I think I would have liked to have seen them win this game, this final, this tournament. get through the event they were meant to win, for me to feel super confident in calling them as a team that are capable of beating Vitality at the most important event of the year.
speaker-0: Now you wanna know who won a great final heading into the major that that's gonna have a nice little boost to them. Flam this is how you do transitional work.
speaker-1: I was actually working on it. I was actually ready, dude. I'm working on it. I was actually ready. I was so ready.
speaker-2: I feel like he was cooking there, Jason. The whole time he zoned out, he didn't even listen to your speech about that.
speaker-1: No, he's got it, he's got it, he's got it. I don't ⁓ so so Navi, huh? ⁓ what do I think of Navi? We'll start, I guess.
speaker-2: Let's redo it. What would you have done?
speaker-0: Wonderful looks fucking awesome. Yeah. He looks also like what what this is what we always wanted out of Wonderful. He's got it now. Yes. And he seems to have found consistency.
speaker-1: What I still don't believe it.
speaker-2: happen.
speaker-0: You're still like not ready?
speaker-1: I don't well, I believe in I I think Wonderful can have a good major. And he actually I I think this is pure vibes. I think he's actually at majors usually better than when he plays so usually the fact that he's playing better coming into a major is a great sign. I mean, like you know now now I wonder if he levels up even more, even if he just stays the same. I think it's ⁓ a realistic, you know, expectation that Wonderful will continue to deliver. I just don't know if Wonderful stays at that level, is it really enough to beat Vitality on their best day? And ⁓ Atlanta was weird because we all know Vitality came in I mean, bro, they're they're on vacation. Like they basically took a vacation before the major to to let themselves reset, which is I'm not criticizing. I I think that was probably smart. Like they're so you ⁓
speaker-0: They told everyone the situation. Like we're going to fucking Yosemite. We're going we're going to Michelin so it's little bit
speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. Like they should. They they got their grand slam and they're like, all right, let's let's get a reset.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: So this is I guess where we should have started this this section would have been like, how much do you believe the vitality bubble has been popped? How much do you feel like it's been broken? Like that that air of like dominance and in
speaker-1: They would legitimately have to like not make playoffs for the rest of the year and lose both majors before I consider them like
speaker-0: Not you, not you guys, the other teams. How much do you think Navi said, ⁓ that's the win we needed? How much do you think Spirit winning Astana looked over and said ⁓ vibe?
speaker-1: Do you think that is I think that helps Navi a lot. I d that's where I was gonna go is like the this this I mean sure. Navi Navi lost to them a lot. Like Navi lost to them like they they lost to like ten times more than everybody else. So I think yes, it helps other teams be like, okay, they can lose, but they weren't the ones that did it.
speaker-0: I think it's hel helps everyone a lot.
speaker-2: Yeah, it makes them look human, right?
speaker-1: And they also, outside looking in, know all the things that we're talking about. And so does Navi, but they were the ones that actually got to like beat them in the server. They got to sit in there and actually like, this is our time. Y'all are going now, yeah. You enjoy your vacation. Go back to your Michelin restaurants real quick. We're gonna take it from here. You know, I think that was huge for them. And they won, I don't want to say like they absolutely dominated them to the point where I was like, wow, vitality. But they vitality looked formidable enough to where The game was just like solid. Like the game was fun to watch. And on Inferno, we saw like the reverse happen. Usually it's Vitality gets to the third map. Or sorry, Navi gets to the third map. And they're kind of like whimpering, right? And they kind of like they threw they threw a map before that. And then Vitality's like, Yep. Bye-bye, buddy. It's time for you to go home. This kind of felt like the exact opposite for Navi in this scenario in that in that game. And I think that That'll power them up, hopefully, for the major. And I would put them as like my favorite of like the the three that we listed. Even as the guy that said I think Spirit really does have the best chance to take them down. In context of like what we've seen so far, I would actually take Navi right now going into the major as the most likely team because they also have the deepest map pool. If it's a grand final for versus vitality, I don't I don't think spiritful and and magics cannot no, that will not happen. Like you can only get so much you can only get so much individual firepower to t to win you some of those maps in a best of five.
speaker-0: Well, that's almost where I would like say there's almost even like a positive point towards that to the spirit camp where they're the only team I think that has one player that can just win you the game. You know, like dog can just win you a map. Or he just comes in and gets you thirty five kills and you're like, ⁓ well that helps.
speaker-1: Honestly.
speaker-2: Yeah, I think the other the counter-strike is such a mental game like all competition. So I think if you're a Navi, I You're going to realize that you won because Vitality were not at their best and they were not practicing, they were on vacation. You're going to realize that. But I don't think you can even let that thought come into your mind on the lead up to the major. I don't think you can let that be a common consensus across the team. You've got to just say, we beat Vitality. You need to get yourself into that mindset of like, we beat them. We are the most recent winners here. We need to let that be the moment that breaks that mental block that you had against them where you kind of want to blame map against them. This is 2024, right? So I think this is something you just have to make sure that even if it's folly, even if it's not a hundred percent true, I think you've just got to go with it and run with it and have that be your mental framework going into the major to give yourself the confidence to beat them again. Because, and from Vitality's perspective, obviously the opposite is true for them. Like, yes, you lost to Na'Vi, you lost this tournament the first time you went out before you get to the top four since this second event with ROPS, right? Or the first event with ROPS. ago and but you've got to say that only happened because we ended up not practicing or leading up to and we're exhausted right there's two mentalities that need to be brought into the major one for vitality is like that didn't matter and one for Na'Vi that has really mattered and obviously from the outside we look at it with a more objective lens and we can see okay we can see the reality of both of those situations but I think for for Na'Vi and Vitality they have to specifically live in those the framing that will help them win in the mental game of the major
speaker-0: There's a third mentality they could have, and I guess this is the scary one, is if Vitality say, ⁓ time for us to come back and prove yet again that we're the fucking daddies in the room. You know, like that 'cause I I guarantee, I guarantee that's Apex's. It's not like it not like it doesn't matter that we lost, more just like, great, now I have the now everyone fucking doubt. Now everyone thinks we're fucking beatable again. Yeah. Yeah. And I guarantee that's the perspective Apex is gonna take. And the question is over these next two to three weeks, can you get the rest of the team to take that perspective as well?
speaker-2: But also when I look at Vitality when they lost that game, and in my first perspective, then I tweeted out as well, I was thinking like, Zywoo actually looks so dejected and Apex looks dejected in the seats. I had the mentality of like, Vitality might not deeply care about this tournament because they understand the realities of everything. But I think that familiar feeling that they lost of losing just crept back in. They had almost forgotten what that feels like to lose a tournament. Oh shit, losing actually sucks. Like this actually really sucks. And I think maybe the feeling of losing is more powerful than the feeling of winning almost. So I think that's gonna, yeah, I absolutely believe that that's what Apex is gonna do going into this and the whole Vitality organization will just go into full practice mode and obviously come out swinging with a new hunger and desire. Like I think honestly this, the feeling of losing, the reminder of loss is only going to make them hungrier for the win again at the Major.
speaker-1: Yeah. I mean I think most like any great team, it's always they they hate losing more than they even enjoy winning, especially once you start winning that much. It's like that that feeling and yeah, when you remind them of it, you're just poking the bear. You know, you're just you're just giving Apex more fuel. And and Moses says, like, if if Apex can get them all on that page. And he might not, but based on everything we've seen so far, Apex will. And that's the most terrifying thing is like I don't know how he did it. I don't know. You know, I don't know if it's his French charm or whatever he's got going on over there, but like he has got all the young guns on his team fully bought in. It's verbal abuse. Everything he says, they understand it and they might not always agree in the moment, but like the overall approach and like how they should be viewing their team is unmatched. Like I think that's gotta be that is his biggest strength as an IGL is now that he has a winning team, I feel like we've never seen a team look as motivated and as like Stoic a ⁓ or maybe so or fueled. They're fueled, right? Like they're always fueled, even when they're winning. There's never like the ⁓ well, we got all this
speaker-0: Well it's his team.
speaker-2: Don't run out of goals. They don't run out of goals every time they get accomplished something they immediately have the next thing in their sight like they have this insatiable desire of victory and I
speaker-1: And really, this is all Astralis' fault. This is Astralis' fault because the way they went down, Apex saw it. No, fuck Astralis. Apex saw what happened to the whole world. He really said, and he gets to say every time to his guys, you see what happened to them, that's not happening to us. We're fucking grinding this thing down all the way until the fucking wheels fall off. And we're gonna we're gonna take this as far as we can go. And you better not fucking quit because this is the best team you will ever play on. They're like, yeah, he's right. Let's go. Like, I mean
speaker-0: Even if another global pandemic comes, we're gonna rock this shit online the whole
speaker-1: They were before that. That was just the nail in the coffin. They were trying to run eight players, Moses. They were trying to bring an entire hockey line to to all their fucking tournaments.
speaker-2: Stop going to the big events like they stopped going to the big tournaments because of that blast thing, right? So they get back in that day They would end up going to like blast Istanbul when the other biggest tournament was on elsewhere And you know, we sadly didn't get to see that the Astralis team dominate maybe as much as they could have obviously even towards the end I think they could have done more but yeah Another another reason was like that Astralis team also they all got burnt out like that the organization like burned out the players the players are all just done with it towards the end and then
speaker-1: It's a
speaker-2: Vitality have realized that too and are now like okay. This is why it's so important to have a break What is why we need to like send a couple players off in one direction the coaching staff in the other direction? I mean the coaching staff all went to a Spurs game in Texas and we seen the Obviously apex and a messy went out to New York and the others went to California so you know they actually went off and beat their individual people come back to Atlanta again and obviously didn't go as well, but I'm thinking that the major, I really do think Vitality are going to dominate this major and then close it out again. I just, feel like that's coming.
speaker-1: Yeah, it's gonna kinda piss me off, but yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. I think I think But what do we okay, we we gotta talk about him a little bit though. Like, do we think we I mean we listen, ⁓ we have to. Like who is it? No no, spirit sir, spirit, spirit sir a little I feel like we kinda glanced over it. Like, what do you guys do you guys think like
speaker-0: Which Do you think Spear can beat them if Holly comes back?
speaker-2: You guys, okay.
speaker-1: See, that's what I was gonna ask you is Yeah, I was gonna say, do you what do you that's actually what I was gonna ask you guys? Is like do you what how do you feel about the coaching situation at Sprug? Do you agree with ⁓
speaker-0: Honest of God, if I'm if I'm the spirit GM, I'm telling Holly, sorry bro, we need you to sit this one out too. Right. This guy's got him playing really well. Improvements across the board. We've lifted a trophy. Guys are happy right now. Things are headed in the right direction. And, you know, we're gonna see how this major goes.
speaker-1: It's so weird. It's like the hot hand, but of coaches. Like it's like usually, you know, you you follow the hot hand, whoever's got it going. You the hot goalie in playoffs or the hot hand for the quarterback in the NFL, you just kind of roll with it and see how far it takes you. But now it's weird to talk about it with a coach, but I think you have to if you're spirit, because it wasn't working before, like definitively, Magics was not progressing. It didn't really seem like the team enjoyed the way they were playing. Tanier was completely offline still. He's never been and then as soon as Halley's gone. Tanir's like, that's right. Actually, I'm really good at the game and I can absolutely assist Donk and even win us maps myself as well. And now you went from like this Shiro Donk hyper aggressive passive to where now they actually have a fucking mid round. They have a guy that is actually walking around trying to actually do things in the middle of rounds and inject himself in a way and he's confident doing it. Because holy shit, if I gotta watch Zontix walk around on T-side completely terrified and still finding a way to die and have zero impact, I'm gonna freak the fuck out. So like having that like. Ability to have they have like each layer of the game now. They they really do. And and they don't rely solely on Donk to just like open everything up. They they can truly be a little bit slower and they can still have access to that level of Donk of like, you know, when they play certain maps, yes, you just let Donk run it down and you see how far that takes you until a team proves they can stop it. But if they do, now you don't need to just be like, well, now what? Like cause Zontix wasn't giving I like Zontix. Like Zontix, I'm not trying to sound like a hater, but that was the big problem on their T side. Yeah, the T side was just a massive, glaring issue anytime Donk was not successful in the first 30 seconds of a round. ⁓ it was it was so pain like Magics couldn't figure out how he wanted to move the team. They didn't really know how they wanted to inject people into certain parts of the map. They didn't know how they wanted to pressure ⁓ other areas of the map and then feed off of that to work another side. They were just completely flat in one note all the time. And it's not even like I I don't know, like it has to be the coach because as soon as Halley was gone, it was like a a light switch. I don't know how you the my mind cannot process how it could be anything else. That feels really fucked up for Halley because he's got some shit going on and he's gone and then the entire team, maybe that's what maybe they just need a kick in the ass, but
speaker-2: It's like the worst case scenario when you take a break from this like it's gonna be nope everything's going better when I left the door Shit, but but I think it's it's hard to call like not knowing like how everything's working over there at team spirit How much is Holly still? Preparing the game plans how much exactly providing and like sending over to the team how many like are they having calls and meetings before the
speaker-0: If you believe the spirit guys and what they've said in their interviews, this is the big thing. 'Cause they they played some decent defense for Halley. I mean a lot of what Sotvik said in the interview is like, we I keep his structure and I'm changing some of the details within like his big short big picture idea, which is I don't know, like sure. Just do you Yeah, like I can't really
speaker-1: Sure.
speaker-2: I'm improving everything he's done.
speaker-0: Can't argue with that, but it also kinda tells me nothing at all. Like I think various players have bounced back and forth of saying he's not doing much to he's doing everything to he's doing a lot, ⁓ depending on the player.
speaker-2: The way to find out and that's bringing back.
speaker-1: ⁓ God. Dude, no, you gotta ride the wave. You have to ride the wave, at least into the major
speaker-0: I seen surfing
speaker-2: the way for sure but you know like if he come back and they just play the same in the major and Holly's with them then Then we just kind of read into a little bit too much But I but then if he comes back, you know Holly's never getting a coaching job ever again So he needs I think that's the other scary part too It's like if he comes back and they do shit the bed. It's like ⁓ well you suck and yeah I think that would be pretty bad for him So I think even even his perspective might be might be a world in which you might want to just sit out and let her ride
speaker-0: On some level I think it would actually put him in a really fucking awkward situation. That's Yeah. Like it would just be yeah. What happens when the first time a player says to you, Well this isn't how Satvik did it? You know, like we liked it this way. Like what are you supposed to do then?
speaker-2: That's what I'm saying, yeah. It's like a substitute teacher comes in, way better than the regular one, you know?
speaker-1: Do we think with the with the coaching change, do you think like Spirit could actually do something to Vitality? I feel like they could. I feel like the problem is I think Spirit could actually beat ⁓ Vitality before best of five. I think as soon as we get to best of fives, though, the only team that has a chance, at least in my opinion, despite them getting absolutely bodied, by the way, in most best of five or in all best of fives versus them. I I do think that when you look at the map pool, they should be able to go toe-to-toe. With them across the best of five, where I don't have as much faith in that for spirit. So but I I think if they caught ⁓ in like a quarter or semi, they could beat anybody else. And I think that they can beat them in a best of three. Like it just
speaker-0: Yeah, I think Spirit can beat any of the other teams for sure. I think against Vitality, their biggest weakness is like not so much the like Matt Pool a little bit. Obviously, he's always gonna be an issue with Vitality, but I think more so it's the the lack of experience together with Magics as a caller and the way Apex is gonna be able to kind of call around those situations. I think that's gonna be a huge disadvantage. you know, I don't I don't I actually I wouldn't pick Spirit. I haven't I haven't latched on I know Spirit's like really good, but I haven't latched on to the full faith that that I think they're like an ultra dang dangerous team challenging for the main Major trophies specifically. I'm I I want to see them first ⁓ at the major itself. I know. I I am in some ways. I don't know why. It's just there.
speaker-2: We haven't boiled
speaker-1: He just doesn't believe in the dog still. Remember earlier he said he couldn't maintain that shit? He's back on his bullshit.
speaker-0: How did I ever say that?
speaker-2: We got the receipts anyway, I got another receipt for you in a second Jason But it's a pretty good. It's a good one. I'm like it It's true I do kind of go all out on you The other thing is like we were we were talking about g2 earlier. I brought that up Jason But the other team that we were all kind of high on
speaker-0: Magic, I'm always targeted.
speaker-2: Was was para vision like a team that I think started the year so so sharp They could be a team that could really make things weird provides that no like they've they've really made the Yeah, that without per I remember us talking about the the Bucharest tournament recasting and you know We started to see the first cracks really start to form with all like a lot of mistakes are coming in Dastan came on the couch He was like you know I wish I could cut them all now to be honest like it turns out they haven't really recovered from those cracks It's just started to get worse
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, I don't I don't know where what's going on with that one at all. ⁓ I I guess that'd be a fun case study into like if like coaching technique. You know, like do you want to go this route of like you know, like at some level I like don't have any issue with that. I'm like, fuck yeah, Destan's a hard ass, and I've taught Counter-Strike, I've taught game with him enough times to where I know he's on top of his shit and and he knows Counter-Strike very well. So I'm kind of like, yeah, get like ride those, like get those rookies in shape. But obviously if they don't respond to it in any kind of a positive way, you just kind of watch this team kind of break down from the inside. So that that's kind of a s that's kind of scary because it it does I don't know. It just feels like they've imploded. Like the the losses and like the way they're getting eliminated now, where most of the season were like playoffs and and challenging best of three series. Now you're just kinda like, ⁓ God, this is terribly fucking gone south.
speaker-1: I think I I'm willing to to say I think this is the problem with his coaching. I mean, I think as it's just that it's that simple. You can he built those players up along with James and they they all think and do and play their system in their way. And he he's absolutely like when he's getting upset and like the rounds they throw, like it's not it like incorrect. The problem is when you build up players the way that they did, and in my opinion at least, like That you've completely removed and stripped the individuality of all the players out of them. ⁓ that you are you are their disciples and you are supposed to look at the game their way. You do want them all in Counter-Strike. You do want everybody to have their own and same idea of how to play the game. The problem is when you do that, especially I think when you have younger players who are inexperienced like them, you can't also then have them switch it back on. They're not like human like you can't just be like, listen, play it this way. This is how you do it. And then you have success. So now you've had success. You've all played that way. And you're all kind of like, this is working. But we can't really keep the consistency because Counter-Strike still is as much of a team game as it is having individual moments and individuality. So when you take that away, you can't be like, Well, we actually need some of that now. And if you start adding some of that back and then they start making mistakes, you can't grind them into the ground again either because Now you're like, well, I'm trying to play your way, but also like we need me to kind of actually think for myself a little bit. And if every single time I'm like getting grilled because I make a mistake in those individual like choices, you just end up imploding the team. I feel like you can't keep driving home the point the same way and expect them to like have some sort of individuality that can help maintain the consistency that will give your team a little bit of flair essentially at the higher end when you start playing the big boys all the time. You can't just like play that one note all the time and expect them to disintegrate like to to beat those teams. You won't beat them.
speaker-0: Can I I'm gonna rephrase that entire thing into a different perspective because this is the way I looked at it. But I think it's kind of the same point. I think it's just from the different angle of it, where yours comes from like the kind of player perspective. I think mine would come from from more of Destan's of I think this is that first point in some of these young guys' careers, like Jell O, you know, Bel Shinoc. Noda, maybe even a little bit Zwei, maybe not so much. He's got a little bit more. But it's probably the first moment in their careers where they've realized they're good enough to hang with the big boys on like an individual and team level. So you're seeing a little bit of that ego kind of flare up and that confidence kind of like building of them being able to say, to start to feel like because they can hang with them, they kind of know better. And I think the feeling would be that you know they're pushing past some of like the strategic and tactical guardrails that have been put in place by Deston, by James. So where you're saying it's like they need to have the freedom to make their own decisions. I think from the other side it's like you have the freedom to make your own decisions within this structure, but there are certain points in guardrails where you need to follow like what what the goal is and what the strategy is in this in this particular moment. And your individual decisions have to be in pursuit of that strategic goal. And sometimes the ego and the confidence flares up and like changes your thinking. You're like, ⁓ I can take this extra peak. I can swing out a little bit wider. I can actually hang with this guy. I can just go challenge him. And I think maybe that's where the mistakes from a coach's perspective hit the same note that you're talking about from a different POV. It's just kind of like, what the fuck, guys? Like, you can't you can't these are terrible decisions. You know? All about individuality and individual decision, but this is just objectively a bad one. And this is This is a huge assumption and I w that's where my brain leads to what's going on in ParaVision right now, but obviously I know nothing internally about what's actually ⁓
speaker-1: Yeah, me either. Yeah, me either.
speaker-2: I think that's the thing about these teams and like famously, you know, james teams You have always kind of been an enigma you the only thing you can do is kind of Hypothesized from the outside of like what what might be going on and ⁓ I think that I like both of your theories on it
speaker-0: This has been the most vocal like I feel like we've gotten in terms of the insight when you have the coach coming out and giving those those interviews and saying those things. Like it feels like it's like the most obvious like where at least from his perspective where the problem is lying at the moment. So
speaker-2: And I think they rode a high so quickly, you they rose up so quickly and now you've got that like humbling crash down to reality. Yes. There are are stage three team at the major and I look at every team in stage three and with the way they're playing right now, they will get banged out like pretty, pretty brutally. But this is.
speaker-0: What's so cool is is Jame actually even had that interview ⁓ just pulled it up just cause it you triggered my mind with that is he even said like the headline of this is we were ready for the slump to happen soon so we are not experiencing shock and horror from our poor results. January, February, March, April. That's back in May.
speaker-1: If you don't say that though, then Dustin says I'm gonna cut some people. Like you can't
speaker-0: I mean it's it is it is a pretty hardcore follow up, I'm not gonna lie to you.
speaker-1: Really that's really good cop, really bad cop. That's like
speaker-0: When I saw that I was kind of like, okay, so like they have the mentality at least. I saw like that kind of like a shade of like vitality of always setting the next goal, except now it's understanding like the peak, the ebbs and flows of building a team and a team rising through the ranks and and they'll be a little bit more prepared and ready for this. And obviously I was wrong. Obviously, I was just wrong.
speaker-1: Well I mean it's hard man, it's har it's hard to predict that it's impossible. But that's why, you know, Dinko's gonna have the receipts though, Moses. You bet your sweet ass he's gonna have ⁓
speaker-0: So I'm prepared.
speaker-2: ⁓ I think this season of Counter-Strike like has been really interesting like I feel like it's been a very different Season of CS like we come into it with new characters that I feel like you know foot and para vision just rose up at the start really quickly I think towards the end of the season thing I really enjoyed watching was like gamer Legion suddenly coming back on this little US tour and Hypex becoming like an actual offer ⁓ So I think this season's had like a fun storylines for me So what is being your guys like favorite takeaway so far as we go into? to the last event of the first half of the year.
speaker-0: Liquid qualified to the major.
speaker-1: Shut the fuck up. There's no one you're rage mating me. You stop. You can't leave I hate you. I qualify flop. I hope somebody fucking runs mono blue and doesn't let you do anything at the next the major or something. Just ⁓ god. Hope somebody just like actually just bullies you. Alright, ⁓ fun fun like most fun storyline are like, ⁓ man.
speaker-2: What a rage baby. Could just be me for a time, man. ⁓ I'll try I'll do my best
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: I yeah, foot and gamer legion I agree, but ⁓ just to kind of really stay ⁓ on brand here for me, I like it I am so happy to see Spirit actually win something and not fade away and completely crumble because
speaker-2: North American spokesman, flom.
speaker-1: Yeah, well okay, do you want me to really start about North America? The best team in North America right now, we were all fucking wrong. You want to talk about receipts? It's wild card Wild card! It's not liquid either. It's fucking ⁓
speaker-2: I said Team Liquid! I quit with smack wild card.
speaker-0: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, tell honestly, if you dropped what let's go. ⁓ eighty wildcard NRG liquid into a four-team best of three rumble. Double elimination. How confident are you that wildcard is coming out on top?
speaker-1: Okay, I'm leaving. I'm leaving. No
speaker-2: A fl-
speaker-1: ⁓ I'm not confident in any of these teams. Confident is not a word that exists with any of these teams.
speaker-2: You're the only team recently who have won anything!
speaker-1: Who the hell says they're confident about any one of those teams is bashed in the sand and needs to be evaluated immediately? I just want to make sure. But right now, I mean wild card's kind of the most fun. ⁓ no, like I love you guys are right. Liquid beat ⁓ eighty, so you guys got to, you know, they was looking grim there for a second, but luckily that was maybe the worst series I've ever seen out of Lake and Slacks combined, individually. Holy shit. It's
speaker-2: His hands wiped down with that big ring,
speaker-1: Maybe, maybe it's the the MVP curse or something. Like I I don't know. I that was the worst individual series I've seen out of them. And I I feel like a liquid hater. I didn't see anything in that series or like something that made me really feel different
speaker-0: ⁓ you saw you just didn't see anything good? Yeah don't no no. It was bad.
speaker-1: No, I mean I took a glance, there's nothing new here that's like ⁓ th this is just I feel like we're on the same script. Somebody showed me a clip of it. I didn't
speaker-2: That was rough. don't think any of us said that like I thought Team Liquid would be a made in any game that mattered and that happened but I never thought I think it's kind of sad that that's the reality because Team Liquid do not look good at all and yet they're still they still
speaker-1: Like That MD ⁓ A D did beat them, Dinko, when they actually were playing for their major spot. If you want to talk about when it mattered. Well, like they got very little.
speaker-2: Liquid already figured it ⁓
speaker-1: Mm.
speaker-0: Be f can we not throw shaded liquid for that? Like real talk here for just a second. It's not like liquid instigated the trade that brought mobs to to liquid and put them in the region to qual you know, like
speaker-1: not mad at liquid I'm mad at Liquid ⁓ for a lot of things and that's you're you're getting it's not one yes yes imagine if they actually just didn't spend money on like skulls and just like took that money and started an academy team or like did yeah what if they just did anything useful with all the money they've lit on fire. My fucking camera gave up but like there we go. Like actually though think about how Liquid and this is why I get so mad
speaker-2: to make sure.
speaker-0: Amalgamation.
speaker-1: Basically just buys a recycled European player that is literally on somebody's bench or th or should be, or maybe a South American, and they just waste too much money and we're just doing the same circle with it. Like I dude, it is so exhausting that they could I feel like they've never tried to gamble a North American talent ever. They don't believe in it. They do not ⁓
speaker-2: Elysia's a bit of a gamble. You don't know it's gonna implode your team or not.
speaker-0: Gambled on Grimm.
speaker-1: You got one player and they put ⁓ in pit, Jason.
speaker-0: Pits a good spot.
speaker-1: You're pissing me off. Like you dude. They they got one player and then now they got mobs only because he played well versus somebody else played for European T Like. ⁓ yeah, he's not a European
speaker-2: He got molves because he made them North American again.
speaker-1: Well yeah, I mean obviously but
speaker-0: That's what I just said. There wasn't that. Now I'm getting tilted.
speaker-1: No, I just I they I feel like they've never done anything to set themselves up for any amount of success long term. It always just feels like a short term move for a short term move. No there's
speaker-0: No no no. Should probably save that for another episode because I feel like you and I are very different sides of the coin. I mean ⁓ I get what you're I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. I'm just ⁓ like for me it's like because I like they did, they have gone out and gotten people. It's not like they've been sitting on their ass and like not taking swings and not bringing people. You know what I mean? Like that's
speaker-1: ⁓ well.
speaker-2: I think that's a good player break topic.
speaker-1: Hold on, we we got off track.
speaker-2: Almost everybody's got a liquid jersey in their closet now.
speaker-0: Well they do make a lot of different kinds of jerseys over there.
speaker-1: Isn't that just like the problem though? Like I feel like everybody else is like, we have an academy team. We moved up our academy player. And I'm not pretending that North America has the depth that other regions do at all. I don't wanna like sound like I think that they could just like have an academy team and it fix all their problems. But you just need like One player. You you're telling me that you don't think that with a with an actual system that if they actually invested even just like a few of those buyouts, but that's what I'm saying. This is all short term stuff. That's why and now Liquid is literally paying the price. That's how I feel. I feel like they're paying the price for not investing in that early.
speaker-0: Sure, potentially, but I think it's just a matter of which price are you gonna pay 'cause what's the what's the positive what's the what's the return on the business of running an Academy?
speaker-1: I mean at this point at this point they the Liquids playing in the same events that their Academy team would play in, so they can't do it now.
speaker-0: But well yeah, sure. But real talk like real talk. What is the bi what is the business proposition of having an academy?
speaker-1: Yeah, spend not spending ridiculous money on buyouts with players that you know are not
speaker-2: They're doing that though. Like I don't I don't feel like liquid art doing that anymore like
speaker-1: But I'm gonna go down the line.
speaker-2: Ultimate is not going to be an expensive player. I mean like what were you know you count from now? Is the player that you but but the trade out, right?
speaker-0: Why
speaker-1: Twist.
speaker-0: How was your stream today? Was it a fun stream? Was it a good stream?
speaker-1: ⁓ god, face it really kills me. I I'm not gonna lie. I'm gonna ⁓ it's i it could be part of this, I won't lie.
speaker-2: You trade you trade mulps and you you trade a leash with face like you aren't buying you're not paying for these players so
speaker-1: I didn't pay for nerds. ⁓
speaker-0: ⁓ they can for that.
speaker-2: They definitely pay for it.
speaker-1: Ukendo Cadian Skull.
speaker-2: The thing is like they made bad moves with those players. I feel like no
speaker-0: That's it.
speaker-1: A lot of money, dude.
speaker-2: No, but I'm saying I say they spent the money and then they let them go that's the other side That's the problem. You're gonna buy a
speaker-1: Listen, I'm not saying Well they do something. Okay, I that's but also what I am saying. They just it just feels like we're just duct taping everything. Like why? Like you don't want to. I don't want to. I don't want to. Okay, okay. Well we'll just okay. Does any NA team do anything in this major? We'll just read we'll we'll we'll circle back like that.
speaker-2: I have to do it this way. No, sadly I I feel like I was really excited about
speaker-0: Fine anything.
speaker-1: FML two or like do you
speaker-0: Ha ha ha ha ha.
speaker-2: No, they're gonna they got it. They're gonna perform there. I guarantee that don't to do all that
speaker-1: Wait, wait, wait. ⁓ I did. Did you get ⁓
speaker-0: Liquid and ⁓ eighty will make stage two. NRG will likely make stage two.
speaker-1: Okay. So you said liquid will and energy will?
speaker-0: Think I think all three of them will. Statistically one's probably not gonna make it. Statistically one's probably not gonna make it.
speaker-2: I would really like
speaker-1: I was about to say you really you take all
speaker-2: Dude, it's gonna be liquid M80 2-2 game, like everyone knows it. That's how it always happens with North American teams. And it always happens. They always have to cannibalize each other to move through to that.
speaker-0: I think I think I'd have to if of the three of them I'd pick NRG to not make it through. But it's not so much I don't think they've I think with like bro going out, like you know, like Rim coming in new, OC like O C's kinda dropped off from the start of the year. I don't know. I just don't have a good vibe and good feeling when I watch NRG play and I don't have a lot of confidence in that
speaker-2: Sadly Which is weird because I talked to them before the event and they were super happy with how things went well players were Daps didn't really give off that vibe, but everybody else was like You know they disappointed That's why I seemed like it was so sad to see them get abs, know, absolutely wrecked but
speaker-1: Gaps is never happy.
speaker-2: by foot and face, you know, and, and then they go to CS Asia championships and see it's like not great over there either, but at least they lost to legacy miles, like two decent teams. But for NRG, I was, I was most excited about them coming into this year. I think the grim move on paper looks great. Like you, get to take on the best North American pledge, bring him into the team, but they have not figured out how to use them yet. They just, have not figured it out.
speaker-1: Yeah, it's 'cause he wasn't a one to one. It's awkward as hell, you could tell. It's not
speaker-2: Yeah, and speaking to them, there's like the T side of the biggest struggles right now. They can't really figure it out. And they're saying like they want to improve the communication of the team. And they said that Grim hasn't necessarily found his voice and he's not a super vocal player yet. So I think they should figure out.
speaker-1: I thought they said he was vocal. That's why they were trying to give him
speaker-2: said some different things and when I spoke to them on media they're like I guess like that it maybe can be a little bit quiet or maybe it's the side the idea that like the kind of communication they want him to give maybe doesn't necessarily give that maybe doesn't like weigh in his opinion and really like affect the shape of the team I'm not sure exactly what they meant by that but there was definitely moments were fighting
speaker-1: ⁓ okay. Yeah, yeah. He yaps but is more along for the ride rather than like a commander himself kinda thing. Yeah.
speaker-0: Mike is brought into this team. Grim has been brought into this team to be the star fucking rifler. He's the star, he's supposed to be the star player, the volume fragger. Mike has those skills. And this is one thing Stewie always brought up when I was when I was there with Liquid when I when Grim had literally just joined right before I joined as coach. ⁓ Stewie always used to bring it up is that he doesn't have like the personality to him like for the star to be a star player. Like he doesn't have like the fucking killer attitude, doesn't have the attitude of like I'm gonna show and I'm gonna just fucking destroy everyone inside the server. And there's there's some trend Truth to that. Like, there's some truth that you have to have a certain mentality and a certain attitude, and some personalities don't have it. But that's one thing that Grimm is gonna have to at least develop or lean into and build up that side of his game. Like, he needs to have a little bit more like pride in the sense of I'm gonna show up and I'm I'm gonna fucking wreck this team and I'm gonna create all the openings for my squad. That that attitude has to be there, and Grimm's just not that kind of guy.
speaker-2: One emerge OC ⁓ But least he's better like he has he has a mentality of like they were gonna beat them like talking to me was he was confident I fired up and actually believe you know Yeah All right, but I would combine them that'll be good gross it grossy like you want to do it even more
speaker-0: He's the side. What's you to be doing? Well his alias would be grossy. That's pretty good. ⁓
speaker-1: I mean that was rough. That was rough. I was trying to find a segue out of that
speaker-2: that
speaker-1: Did you know that was just
speaker-2: We we got a graphic made ⁓ because we thought like OCE from an eye test perspective and like what really pops off the page like it feels like OCE just absolutely farms North American teams and then he goes and gets asses handed to him to buy weaker team better teams right in Europe and Then we actually looked at the stats and it turns out he actually was playing better against your pain teams, which is Statistically, but maybe not so much
speaker-1: used to be your storyline of OC was like when he first came in. Yes. But honestly his Liquidston, I think, helped him a lot. Like when he started and he started playing a lot better towards the end with that legendary Patsy Rainwaker lineup that he was on for a moment. He actually was probably their best player legendary lineup. ⁓ and I feel like what for whatever reason then after that he was never he never dominated NA teams like he used to. And he still is formidable against E EU teams. He's he's a weird one. I don't I don't know how to pin OC. He it's just mental, like at that point. I think I think Moses kind of alluded to it. He has a very similar personality, it seems like, to Grim, which for your opera is kind of you can be quiet, like you but you still have to have a a crazy amount of self belief at all times, especially as the opera and especially as a star rifler. You have to be delusional. Like there has to be a a touch of delusion and sanity. Yes. Otherwise, if you're too if you're too practical, you are not the right type of person. For those types of positions, because any normal person would have self-doubt, like and you can't really have any in these situations. And yeah, that's what when you go to energy, the problem is is Sonic is their best player and he's not supposed to be. And that that's basically the entire problem with energy. and it's kind of it's frustrating to see. And hopefully I feel like every interview DAPS is always saying that they're changing a bunch of things and like that they just need more time to work on it. But I just feel like if you're always needing more like when when when does it happen? Like so hopefully they said their outlook is the major. Let's see if it's true, I guess, ⁓ with energy. I guess it's it's hard to be confident. Yeah, that's gonna be so rough. ⁓ that's so rough. ⁓ man. I know. I was literally looking at their opening matchups, and ⁓ eighty is playing ⁓ what is it? Lindvision, I think, first, which is like that's a classic NA trap game to lose. And then Liquid will g lose to big.
speaker-0: And the nice thing is they gave you a really confidence inspiring quote, which is I think we should be able to get out of stage one. Even stage two.
speaker-1: Let's go, baby. Let's go.
speaker-2: That's the mindset. ⁓
speaker-0: Buy that flag.
speaker-1: Well yeah, so that's North American Counter Strike to a T I think. Really that one quote. We hope to get out of stage one, maybe stage two, we get out, like be kinda crazy.
speaker-2: North American thing that came from player from Polish coaches was that was the drama that I really enjoyed like it was like the coaches kind of going at each other Cuban ⁓
speaker-0: ⁓ yeah.
speaker-1: Wait, I missed this.
speaker-2: Yeah, and called called called the coach of wildcard fat ⁓ That was a whole drama that happened at the land and it was public and I I kind of loved it was like
speaker-0: Fucking hole.
speaker-1: Wait, but like what was it just like unprovoked?
speaker-0: I think they were like talking shit in the middle of the game and it was one of the things he shouted over to the other side, which in that context Yeah, but it's mean. It's personal but I was
speaker-1: Pretty
speaker-2: foot.
speaker-0: I thought when they were having a back and forth on Twitter, I was like, there is a generational difference between Cuban who grew up in like random land cafe tournaments around Poland, middle of nowhere, Poland countryside, wherever the fuck he had to go, and and you know, these guys ⁓ these guys and where they've kind of come from.
speaker-1: Well no, well he I think yeah yeah yeah yeah.
speaker-0: Actually he probably came from the shit. I forgot he was still generation.
speaker-1: I was about to say yeah, yeah.
speaker-2: Love each other. That's why they were going back and
speaker-0: We'll stick with the generational, not really
speaker-1: Thirty something. I like that out of Moses. That's smart. Thirty something. That's what he says his age is too. I was I was going more at you, but ⁓ I don't know.
speaker-0: How old is he? Yeah.
speaker-2: So, is 25.
speaker-1: Jason, they need to listen, who's got a worse HL T V picture? Me or Jason? Dinko, you have to answer.
speaker-2: Let see, let me flip flop.
speaker-0: Mine's probably pretty bad. Yeah, that's from a Starlighter event in like twenty seven.
speaker-1: They got the worst angle of you, Jason. They did you dirty. Mine mine just like yeah, it's just how it is.
speaker-0: Back in the day in Eastern European events they used to like layer makeup on, like you wouldn't
speaker-2: $600 though Jason just $600 in prize money. That's pretty sick
speaker-0: You like that? That was pretty fucking sweet. I think I won that off of Devil Walk in a one V one. Yeah. It's not great.
speaker-2: You beat Team Bardolph. The only win on the board here is against Team Bardolph, so that's a good one Jason.
speaker-0: It is a nice one to have. Well where was that at? Show match counter strike. That's show matches.
speaker-1: Moses top fracturers I buy power. Good shit. Well done.
speaker-0: Yeah, I do Odds to roll hard back in the day.
speaker-1: Yeah, you did. So wait, Dinko, you didn't answer the question, who's worse, me or Moses? And we'll get back to you.
speaker-2: Yeah, Jason's is worse.
speaker-1: They did you horrible. They did they really did you horrible, Jason. I'm like
speaker-0: Honest to God, I've I've I've never noticed it until you just brought it up.
speaker-2: He is gonna message them to change it right now Before this episode airs he's gonna have the best pictures ever taken up there
speaker-1: this up immediately so he cannot take the wait off screenshot it hold on we'll we'll we'll do this and then hold anyway we'll put it in the Discord so that way ⁓ Siko has this for later and then that way he cannot perfect this might be an email in my chat
speaker-0: It's the it's the double shit and the fucking Botox look, isn't it? That really brings it up.
speaker-2: It's the microphone as well, man. What the hell was that? It's like call centers.
speaker-0: Them a doctor. I was on a desk. Nothing good happens on the analyst. You think cool, you look a lot more intense.
speaker-2: My casting is just superior, man.
speaker-1: All right, you rail. We're we we are all in agreement that North America we're just hoping to get out of stage one, possibly stage two.
speaker-2: We're we're hidden behind it.
speaker-0: Possibly stage two. Don't set expectations too high. Stage two has legacy in it, and there's some tough motherfuckers.
speaker-1: Yeah, I don't wanna
speaker-2: Realism.
speaker-1: Can we actually be less realistic? We need delusion. Maybe that's where it has to start. To make them a little more confident, we need to start being absolutely batshit insane. No, so that way we manage. Alright, all right. Grab drop a 1.25 rating in stage one and two, and they will qualify for stage three, and they will beat Falcons and then lose before playoffs.
speaker-2: Hypnotism.
speaker-0: You'll back you up, whatever you say. That is at Flom on Twitter.
speaker-2: I'm calling it M-A-D-A-Z-
speaker-1: All right, but that's crazy.
speaker-2: Mad versus liquid in a 2-2 game only one North American team makes it out and
speaker-1: Sh it'll be ⁓ A D. I'll take ⁓ A D on that.
speaker-0: Is this where everything's decided? Is it which team makes it out of stage one? If liquid
speaker-1: North America. Yeah, wait no way. ⁓ That's right.
speaker-2: Not Jason you you highlighted something at start of the show today And you said not all teams will be able to win a major or be competitive at a major and that's just reality that we all have to live in right sure you said that in regards to the stickers I think that's the reality we have to live in with North American teams and so we look at the majors an overarching tournament and we a smaller tournament from within a regional pride battle in stage one of the major
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah, we'll see you in Las Vegas. We can lose now. This is actually gonna be scary. We're
speaker-2: This is a-
speaker-0: Good ones or are they bad ones?
speaker-1: Well you can look at the you guys ⁓ wait, you guys haven't taken a glance yet? ⁓ wait, you guys have been busy. You guys are like casting all this stuff now, it's kinda cool. You can see the predicted VRS. It's not really accurate because it's a little it's a little bold. Let me see. We're September.
speaker-0: When do you have
speaker-2: Now we got legacy legacy you're gonna win this event bro legacy going
speaker-1: It's Legacy Fury technically. ⁓
speaker-0: You might want to extend that invite to legacy right now before you know, before they win the major and
speaker-1: Well they probably decline either way, so it wouldn't really matter. Damn it. Yeah, so no no, listen, it's based on this and then when I when I send out the invites, and then lag is in there, but I think pa well no passion disintegrated. So it'd be like the teams would be Wildcard, ⁓ eighty, Liquid Voka, Energy, Lag, and then Legacy Fury, but most likely probably pay and ⁓ IBR, but still a really Yeah, that's that's what it looked like.
speaker-2: ⁓ Anyway, it'll be a fun good time
speaker-1: We can lose that now too. We could lose that now too, and that's kinda my fault, but I ⁓ well how did you guys
speaker-2: That is how it is moving on swiftly from North America to the transition of China as we go over there We have got two tournaments that I'm to talk about in China one with CAC just went on we talked a little bit about that But they just announced a new event coming up in China during the player break ⁓ It's it's interesting and look at phase are be there. They're also gonna be there It's called XSE Pro League 2026 the only talent they've announced is James Bank so far so he will be there ⁓ Shit, but it's during the player break. It's a 1 million dollar Chinese land And the teams that are going are legacy eyeballers nip Betboom nemesis 9z alliance and face so phase really do need to pick up a lot of points So ⁓ they have no break they are going during the player break in the middle of july to guangzhou china to play in this tournament so ⁓ that's I guess it's nice like but I think there was a discussion online about like We no longer are going to respect the player break. Like the VRS has forced teams to, if you don't perform this season, you've got like, you've got summer school basically if you underperform.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, the player break no longer exists the way it used to, for sure. Like that's not even that's not even a thing in anyone's mind. Those events are gonna pop up whether you like ⁓ to or not, and at some point the teams are gonna go and then that whole like, you know, we all agree to take these months off is out the window and you just get the whole fucking year to figure out how you wanna rock and roll.
speaker-1: I respected the player break.
speaker-0: I respected the player break too. I just it's just gone. It's gone now. Rest in peace.
speaker-2: That's a that but that's weird because another a torno organizer we work with a couple of times Jason Fisher ⁓ they Canceled a bunch of their events now the public reasoning Was that because they ran it during the player breaks? They didn't get the best teams that they wanted for their and their investors were unhappy But yeah now it's actually kind of a unique Selling point to be a new torno organizers like we run our events in the middle for all the teams that disappoint And so I think it's a good way to actually get in, because how are you going to compete with Blast and ESL and PGL for the spots in the regular season? You're just not. So this is actually such a great time for these new tournaments to come up during the player break, because the teams need it and also the organizers need it. So I think if you can pull it off and get the sponsor money for an event of that size, like a million dollars in the player break, great.
speaker-1: I think it's fine. I th because though it'll it'll self regulate itself anyway. The top teams will still be going to the they'll already have their invites secured and it allows people to kinda go in and out. And you'll you'll get to see the teams that, you know, fumbled like FaZe get to play more and you get to see if they're actually progressing or doing anything. Yeah, no, it's it's that I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like more counter strikes a bad thing to me. I am curious though, back to the the major a little bit. Do you guys have any team that doesn't have to win like on your radar right now that you think people it just like you think that'll exceed expectations, either your own or how people feel publicly, like fe like a dark horse basically to be cliche, but you know, just it doesn't have to be somebody that'll like make the run as much as just somebody that you think will exceed expectation.
speaker-2: Bat boom.
speaker-1: You wanna say G two again, Moses?
speaker-0: ⁓ I mean I I guess I fucking could. I think that checks all right.
speaker-1: Well I'm not trying I'm not I'm not trying to put it for you. You already riding that wave. Like I don't know.
speaker-0: I'll take it off.
speaker-2: I think for me, think it's probably gonna be Bat Boom. They're starting early in the major. It's all the way to stage one. I think they're the favorites to go through there three zero with Gamer Legion. ⁓ So I think they're gonna be quite comfortable through stage one and I think they can do. I think they'll get through stage two as well and the teams they they've lost to in Atlanta for Navi and legacy They beat vitality as well in the group stages I think they've been doing great work online in the lead-up to this event and the only worry I have is just how can the inconsistency sometimes of these players? Like these Russian players can be so good with their ceiling is so high but they can fall so low so quickly But if they can somehow keep up the momentum they made in Atlanta I actually really do think that BetBoom can be a surprising team because they're starting nice and early in the tournaments. You're to have a good amount of lead up and warm up and you'll be there for a couple of weeks before the other teams. There's always one surprising Russian team at these events at the majors. So, last time was ParaVision. think this time it'll be it'll be BetBoom. For me, I think they're going to do pretty well.
speaker-1: You feel like Gamer Legion might outperform them though? How do you feel like I feel like Gamer Legion is very interesting.
speaker-0: Yeah, it'd be one I'd point to. I was going to except I just didn't know the feeling of them just making the final in Atlanta. You know? Like that kind of like takes away somewhat like the dark horse factor to it. But I still I still don't have great
speaker-2: Still has to continue.
speaker-0: like expectations of him, so I guess it it fits in pretty well. I mean, I think that's a that's a team that I'm now gonna be putting in stage two, where before I would have had the conversation, but after watching them in Atlanta, I'm like, yeah, that team can handle pretty much anything stage one's gonna throw at him. I was gonna say big, just because I believe the the blame F factor, ⁓ you know, as a as a player can get you through stage one. He's gonna be such an influential voice ⁓ force inside the server and you can really feel him. And you know, I I don't think anyone has any real expectations of what big's gonna look like or what they can do. So I think in some sense even like making it deep into stage two for them is kinda like, Okay, that's kinda cool, you know?
speaker-1: Yeah. I d you know and I was just thinking about all this. I was just going through the teams, like, man, we don't what the hell do we do with Mao's like Mongols and like Aurora right now? Like is there is it roster changes? Is it is it roster change? You just like
speaker-0: They're just there. They just exist at the moment.
speaker-1: Mao's was supposed to be the team that could actually run with vitality. Mongols was so exciting and Cobrazer isn't bad, but like it's not Senzu and then Aurora just always feels like they're
speaker-0: Mongols is that team that is just like happy to be at the major, except they're like, Yeah, we're just happy to be like a top eight team in the world. Like they're just that good that they just get to kind of change the rules of that whole equation. Like but they don't I I don't know. I the I the question with them is always gonna be, are they boot camping before the major? 'Cause they've skipped so many of them before events. And that's why I just don't talk about ⁓ because I'm like it just feels like they're they're content with being a top eight team, which is fine. ⁓ the Miles thing is just so disorganized and so weird that ⁓ there's nothing really to take away from it. Let's see what happens. I don't think exertion as IGL is a long term solution. so I don't I don't really know. I th I'm actually kinda scared that if this major goes poorly for Maus, like that might just like break up like some semblance of this core. I don't know. I don't know what Exertion
speaker-1: Yeah, Broolin's coming back.
speaker-2: It's fraggin though, it's kinda crazy.
speaker-0: I think that's gonna drop off though. I don't think that's gonna last. You know, I s I mean ⁓ certainly not at the cliff he was in Astana, which was incredible and I don't want to take anything away from that. Still an a an amazing performance, but I really think that's gonna drop off just because as an IGL and a playmaker he's gonna call himself around himself during this honeymoon phase. Like all the timings for the team are his timings that he wants personally, so there's gonna be a jump up. Didn't expect that much of a jump up, but I just don't don't see that lasting. And I don't see how him as the IGL is gonna outlast Navi, Blade, and ⁓ and Alexe, or Kerrigan, Zonic, Nico on Falcons, or Apex, X Taz, Mezi on Vitality, you know, like there's not really a structure there that I think can contend with any of the other teams. And Aurora They're they're Aurora.
speaker-2: You have to
speaker-1: I know it's it's crazy, right? I don't even know what to say anymore. Like it's like they were right there. We were all talking about how they gotta win a trophy or it's like a failure of a season and then like it's like a failure. Yeah, and then
speaker-2: Always like this they start really strong then they fizzle out towards the end of the season. They'll be back. Let's start next season
speaker-0: This one feels different with Aurora just because it feels like when that's happened in the past or at least the past couple of years since they've like been probably at their peak, the changes have always been like one player. You know, let's drop this guy and bring this guy in. You know, let's drop Joda and bring Soulfly in. It feels like the next change they make has to be something like a little bit more drastic.
speaker-2: Well, they have to get rid of Madger and that but the problem is like I feel like you need to go in a new direction in that and that sense in it But like who do you pick up like who in game leads?
speaker-0: Unfortunately for Aurora, they're the classic example of why every other team in the world has found a way to go international over the years is just because you don't have the pool of players. Like you say they asked to drop Major, and I'm like, yeah, I guess in that angle, like I guess that makes sense, but you're fucked if you do that. You know, like I for me, I look at it more and I say, probably the probably the easier of the two to find someone in Turkey if you're gonna stick with the Turkish lineup would be to replace Antars.
speaker-1: I absolutely agree with you.
speaker-0: Which is a crazy crazy thing to say out loud for the first time. But the more you say it out loud, the easier it gets because he is a really good player and he's got the Zantara's peak and he's got the brand and he's a huge engine and a huge matter of production. But ⁓ like at some level like it ⁓ it's easier to replace that skill than it is to replace like the experience and leadership and s strategy.
speaker-2: But is it like... close to Zantara's? if you... Zantara's is what makes them... elite.
speaker-0: Yeah, but I think whichever way you go, you're taking a big risk. Are you gonna cut out the brain or the fucking muscle of of the
speaker-2: I think Woxic is the player that has potential to leave the team. How many teams are looking for good offer?
speaker-0: Yep.
speaker-1: Like 'cause the international side of it, yeah.
speaker-2: Yeah, so I think that's thing you've got to think about. Shout out to L-
speaker-1: Shout out like everybody that's the top five. ⁓
speaker-2: I think on it, I guess that transitions me to what I've been thinking about lately. And it's been high pecs. Like if he can keep that up, dude, like these last two.
speaker-0: Your player? Is this your player? This is gonna be your ⁓
speaker-2: Yeah Last two events Fort Worth into Atlanta Hypex was flashy. He was last second clutching. He had some confidence ⁓ He plays like a really fun off it to watch and and I really like it and I just hope that it's not just a flash in the pan Which I it probably will be but I'm really hoping like if he could be a good operative face
speaker-1: This is virus.
speaker-0: Dream Dinko, you took us down this
speaker-1: He went too realistic.
speaker-2: Dream but I'm trying to sell you I'm to make sure you know it's not a dream and it's impossible reality right we're gonna consider the positives and the negatives and trying to be a responsible Salesman right here. You've got phase have tell you what you need. You got Faze on one hand, failed to make the major, they lost her big. A big. This is Jason's team to watch at the Cologne Major. Big.
speaker-0: That's ⁓ putting some words in my mouth, but it will allow it for the
speaker-1: No no no I'm ⁓ valid ⁓ overruled that way he's correct. Continue.
speaker-2: Yes, indeed. Jason's team to watch big. Now, Broky is... We remember all the glory days, the moments, but we also remember what we've seen from Broky the last few years. It's been shocking. It has been terrible. In fact, it has been depressing to watch Broky because he's had moments...
speaker-0: Pitch a phase hype X.
speaker-1: I think so. Well let him go. Let ⁓ go.
speaker-0: Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, go
speaker-2: Yes. So, what you love about Broky are those glimpses of potential, those highlight moments. You think of clips of old, it's Broky running through smokes, pulling off the unthinkable clutch at the right moment to keep phasing games and tournaments, right? That's what we all think about. And we see little bits of it still on face, but not enough. But what we've seen at the last couple of events is this young Polish man inside of Gamer Legion who has pulled off the best moments, the most memorable moments of Atlanta. Name a single moment that wasn't Hypex. All right. that you remember, apart from Navi when lifting the trophy. Hypex was the clutch factor. He was the exciting player. You got the overpass clutches, last second towards heaven. Him coming out on Anubis, straight through dark, last second through the fire, nine seconds on the clock, quickscopes the guy on platform, runs after the guy at B main on Anubis, gets him in the last second before the timer goes down. That's the kind of stuff we loved about Broky, and that's the stuff that Hypex has been pulling off, event after event, and by event after event I do mean... Fort Worth and Atlanta. you know, if he does that one more time here, I would absolutely love to see him in a FaZe jersey. I think he'd be a nice little replacement for Broky. ⁓ And I think that could be really fun. It could be a gamble shot in the dark. Or, or he could choose the red pill FaZe or the blue pill in Team Liquid and you could replace a crappy Polish AWPer in ultimate and put in Hypex a Polish AWPer with a British accent and a big old green gun and highlight plays. And I think that could be a great option to move forward for the future.
speaker-1: Bravo bravo. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. Get your bad opera out and get your mediocre opera here today. It's time to upgrade.
speaker-0: He brought it home. It's a two for one special.
speaker-2: ⁓ I hope Hypex turns out to be like the god of...
speaker-1: Yeah, and what he's not, Jason, you gotta put Dinko back together 'cause it's gonna be his Cousta moment. It's gonna be tough.
speaker-0: We'll yeah, we'll get through that. I I I lasted it. I got through it.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-2: Well, you know what? In Jason's team to watch, Grix was meant to be the awp or the prodigy, but he was not the chosen one, in fact. Grix. We'll wait and see how he performs.
speaker-0: All roads lead to big all
speaker-1: Roads lead to big. Alright, and on that I think we leave it there. I think this is good. I think we've yapped enough today. All roads lead to big and we can wrap it there. I don't think there's anything else to add for this. I think I think I think in general though, I think ⁓ I am happy that you know Estana and Atlanta leading into the major kinda for a moment felt like what are we doing? And you know, when we talked about it, I was like You know, it kinda sucks because we're we're you know, the VRS doesn't matter as much. But it the fact that Vitality lost and then you had ⁓ not there was two tournaments simultaneously. We got to kind of see the best of the rest. We got to kind of see those one, two, three, and now also CAC as well. Like we got to kinda see like what's it all about. Like it kinda leads nicely into the majors, is what I'm trying to say. Also, I think it switched up your mic on you, Moses, 'cause you put up your You look great.
speaker-2: ⁓ yeah.
speaker-1: ⁓ he hit it. He you really got him excited about the highest
speaker-2: Before we leave what what whoops go are we rocking today, man? How we do?
speaker-1: ⁓ I'm still calibrating. I just got it, but I have been above ⁓ let's see, I got ⁓ eighty-six percent on my sleep and eighty-four percent recovery. But it's still calibrating. I'm getting there. It's sick though, because I can just put all my lifts in there, but yeah, wait, you can see you can see eighty-six percent today, dude.
speaker-2: That's not Yeah, that's not bad at all. I'm sure that will get messed up with these hours coming up in the major, but you
speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, and then kid after FML, so like that'll that'll only go crazier. So yeah. That's why I wanted to get a baseline before my life. Yeah, yeah, this is what it was, so I know what I have to like strive to get back towards, or otherwise it's cooked. Okay, so the I I just got the ping, so I gotta make sure that he said to shout out the podcast name and its members only on YouTube and should be on Spotify and Apple.
speaker-2: This is what my normal life was like. Yeah. All right.
speaker-1: Podcast sometime soon and Moses is back. Perfect. And the the podcast name is NQ, just like Jason trying to get back in here. And this was inspired by my forty minute wait times in face it queues. Holy fucking shit. That is where this came from. So it like NQ like, yeah, there we go. So that's the NQ podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we'll get some cool brand and we'll make it look nice. And it's abbreviation IQ, something we lack a lot of around here, but it's all right, 'cause we make up for it in our great looks. Like
speaker-2: Okay.
speaker-0: And we're gonna lose way more as time goes on.
speaker-1: Absolutely. Especially the more we talk about North America, it will continue to dissolve and I think we leave it there.
speaker-1: Yes, I am. No, I could I could bring him in and into this, which is Moses has a problem and we're gonna talk about it today a little bit to start, which is we don't care about the counter strike major. We're here for the magic counter strike talent major. Who is winning it? What do we got? Who who's running what? What are the rules? Who's winning? Who's the top dog?
speaker-0: I don't know. I don't think we really have an a well you know, I'm I think I guess I would be towards the top of the hierarchy, so I really don't care about what comes beneath me. Damn. I think we don't really have any crazy rules. True, it's Stinko's pride.
speaker-2: Coming second is an honorable endeavor, Jason. Honorable second place. You always want to come second.
speaker-0: In honorable second place. yeah, we just established like the three game changer max per deck and like you know nobody no tutors, like you know, we're trying to just make sure nobody comes in with any surprises, keep things nice and even, fun games, have a good time, that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who
speaker-1: Who would do it? Who would do it? If somebody was gonna like you had to pick one person who's breaking the rules or would try to, or who's gonna skirt the line?
speaker-0: I don't think anyone's going to skirt the line or break the rules. If anyone's gonna give a crack at it, it's gonna be hairy.
speaker-1: You can't.
speaker-2: Definitely, definitely be Harry.
speaker-0: Okay.
speaker-1: Care.
speaker-2: I have not played Harrier since the beginning of Magic when I started playing, but I've heard many a thing about a certain Eldrazi deck which destroys half your shit off the table, so I'm not looking forward to playing against that for sure.
speaker-1: So that's that's the that's the magic major for the casting talent. That's the w that's actually what I'm gonna be more interested in. I'll be keeping tabs. What do you mean, of course?
speaker-0: Can't believe I can't believe we opened up with Magic the Gathering. Here we
speaker-1: Literal play. But like it's just yeah, it's just cardboard crack, man. No big deal. Well we'll go into I guess a little bit more I guess we won't go right into the teams. I was telling you guys before. What do you so what do you guys think? I'll bunch these together. Change the payout structure of the stickers, and then how you guys feeling about the BO3s being added in in certain stage. You guys like it, dislike it, you guys feel like it's like anything. Does this change the feeling? Because at least for me when like the major happened, it was kind of getting old, like watching teams just like Be whatever about being knocked out in the major. Do you think like this actually solves anything or anything like that? Or is this just like a whatever change that doesn't really mean much to the players, do you think?
speaker-0: Anytime I well, I mean, I think the players love it. And I think we we we should all love it. Anytime you make an entire stage of the major BO threes all the way through, like take away all the best of ones and take away that element of it, the randomness of a B O one MR twelve. I think everyone in this scene has gotta be celebrating, especially 'cause I think it's in a good place too. It's not the whole thing, it's just that third stage where you get the best teams in the world. And the major should be the most difficult gauntlet to run. So anytime the format gets more difficult, I like that for the prestigious nature of the event as well. and and yeah, I think ⁓ you know We we took away some randomness over the years, but obviously now it's like not having to drop down O and one off just some like random actually O and two, couldn't it be? Because like one bad day was was your was your B01 days. So I mean you could have one shitty day and just get kind of really punished. ⁓ especially for teams who are coming in cold to teams who have already been at the environment. We already have those conversations every single stage, every single major. ⁓ now you get more chances to kind of recover and bounce back from that as well.
speaker-1: What do you think about the payout structure? You think like that's a good feeling? That's I kind of blended those two together a little bit there. So like I I was like I think it's huge. I think it's great. Cause I'm tired of everybody like I don't I feel bad because the orgs at the bottom I feel like need the money the most. So it d it it does like her affect that a little bit. But like also or like the players as well. But I was kinda also getting a little worn out from seeing teams almost not be happy, but like You got eliminated from the major and very rarely I feel like the exception of a couple teams and personalities, it it would almost like feel like they were just happy to be there and they were fine with being knocked out. Not all the teams were like that, but there it was more even one team looking like that at the major kind of feels shitty. So do you guys like what do you guys think about it?
speaker-2: I think when the RMRs are kind of boring because like we're actually the other way around the RMRs were super fun because you would have these underdog teams who would like qualify through the RMRs to be like, ⁓ that's crazy. Like they just made it. They got a sticker in the game. But then that was kind of the end of the hype story line around them because I think they were pretty happy to be at the major, right? Like in their expectations would drop once they get to the major. Now there's like more of an incentive of to build a brand outside of the game and more popular players are going to have obviously more of a reward for that. So I think there's more incentive for the players. the organization's obviously build a brand for their players and also like it kind of removes that factor that you're mentioning where it's just like everyone who qualified for the major a lot of teams were just super happy to just make it we get the sticker money guaranteed we'll just piggyback off the back of one of these capsules of say a team doesn't perform very well you got a popular team in there everyone's gonna buy like the Challenger stage capsule and then this team who puts no effort into the branding sometimes like organizations that you read in the future have come out and not paid their players very well their staff and there's like they're just they're just like I ⁓ think it gets rid of lot of the incentives for bad faith actors who are like organizations that aren't necessarily set up in a very sound way and don't have a great pile to the players. ⁓ I like that side of it, but then also, yeah, I do see the idea of like if you're a smaller organization, I mean, just think of organizations like Game Allegiant, even. mean, that's another organization that is a bit of a conversation at the moment. But like that's an org that got, were able to maintain competitive or into the breach an organization in the past. You know, a team that did well at the Paris major and somehow got a bunch of sticker money and kept them afloat for a little while, but it wasn't enough to eventually turn them into a profitable business. think this in the long term has more of. ⁓ lean towards the incentive of building a better business structure and try to actually shine some light on your players to make them popular and I like that they're gonna get a reward for that.
speaker-0: Well it feels like also they're trying to the stickers now more reward 'cause they're allocated due to VRS, right? So Yeah, so you're rewarded more for the season, I guess it would be overall than than Yeah. Okay, cool.
speaker-1: Yeah, your seating. Yeah, your VRS seating. Yeah, well and it updates mid tournament too. So so like mid major, like if you perform well, you'll you'll get updated throughout the major and that'll affect your payout structure.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: I mean just to just to be a little bit of a counterpoint, because I I haven't looked through all the details of this. I just kinda have like a surface level understanding of it. I would say, you know, it is a little bit scary because while you guys take the angle of like the bad faith actors, I also know how many orcs there have been over the years who are like kind of reliant on getting that that money just just to be able to operate and just to be able to keep the doors open and be able to actually sustain a business. So that that part's kind of I think that's probably the big worrying thing you'd want to keep eyes on. ⁓ because I almost like on some level I'm almost like I'd rather have those people. people rewarded than you know like anyone just like happy to be at the major like you should be like some teams don't don't have the chance to have the ass like let's be fucking real. There are some teams that just don't have a chance of winning the major. I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry. ⁓ so like there should be teams there are teams who should just be happy to be at the major. I don't like inherently think that's a bad thing. And I'd rather I'd rather Yeah exactly. And they're fucking jumping for joy. They're fucking living the dream right now, aren't they?
speaker-1: Liquid, right? I can't help myself.
speaker-0: I know. You had to get the dagger. ⁓ but you know, like I you know, that that's the other angle I'd take is I just know over the years how many teams were so reliant on that, which equally isn't a good thing to be that reliant on just qualifying it to it, but like sometimes that's just the way the industry kind of works right now is ⁓ You know, just just sometimes that that's just what they have to rely on. So I don't know. I think it's I think it's kinda cool. ⁓ I'm interested to see how the all the player individual stickers and everything bumps up and down and prices go crazy. That's obviously gonna be huge thing that that people are gonna be following. Yeah, it's like it's like another angle of the community that just get to be a little bit more invested, you know, like in terms of their attention. So it's kinda cool. I guess that just services like you know, the part of the industry that more likes the skins and sticker reselling and value and investment, etc.
speaker-2: stock market. I would say a large part of it as well like if you look through the release It mentions the fact that not in all regions you can't buy the capsules rather some reasons where it's just not illegal or allowed to purchase the capsules because it's seen close to Gambling or and certain laws are a little bit tight on that in some regions So I think that's it as an idea that kind of throws out the blanket and make sure everything is kind of the same across the board and some reasons we have to buy the x-ray case because you have you can't exactly just Open a key and randomize like in most nations. So I think the idea for valve is to try and like Make it pretty consistent across every nation that they operate in which definitely helps here and I do think it has just another level of interest into the enthusiasts who are into this whole edge I think stickers for me. I used to not even buy them when they first came out
speaker-0: How are you buying ⁓ Dinko?
speaker-2: No, I'm lie I have other purchases I must make right now Jason ⁓ You know, but I look at the stickers overall like I would just wait for the sale to happen like I didn't really you know I shouldn't shouldn't be doing that should be supporting the game I was I just went to that sale comes cuz they're all like eight to eighteen cents Like why am gonna spend a couple of dollars when I can spend it?
speaker-1: He's buying magic cards, bro. He ain't buying stick. Yeah, why not, right?
speaker-2: Yeah, now it's now you actually have people are gonna be buying the stickers on the lead-up to the major and I think in the end like buying your favorite player sticker It's probably gonna be pretty unaffordable for for most actually like I've just watched some of these stickers go to ridiculous prices so far Which really makes me wish I did buy them
speaker-0: Am I reading in here that they also like they also have like built in protection for like some kind of like meme pump and dump to like push a signature? Price change? Yeah, though a partial re that'd be a fucking great name for it. I hope they actually do that in do that in the next update. Thank you, Dingo.
speaker-1: Yeah, there's like some like
speaker-2: That's a dick Stacy clause stick
speaker-1: Stacey clothes. Actually opening up my game right now to see if I can see what the price of one of them is. Because I think Donk was something like over a hundred dollars already for one screen. I think I want to make sure I'm not crazy. Let's see. Yeah, Brolin at fifteen hundred coins. Let's see, what is that? Okay, yeah. Yeah, some of the Yeah, it moves up and down. You can like I don't know. Yeah, it's pretty wicked if you guys go into the actual game and take a look at it. It is a pretty wicked system overall. Like ⁓ that
speaker-2: I seen Yanko tweeted like one of the good things he liked about it was that the the tournament organizers got to keep 5 % Yes, I think replied to him saying that was always the case, but I mean in regard regardless it's cool He's like he's like well cool. I guess I'm glad they kept that But yeah, I mean I didn't know that so that was good good to a good little reveal for me Messiosa understood it, but I was in the same boat as Yanko where I was like oh, that's pretty sick like if the
speaker-0: Shit.
speaker-2: Tio is getting 5 % of sticker money. I mean we like that because we work for the to but also it's good for cars
speaker-0: That's right.
speaker-2: Don't phrase it like that Jason, how else am I meant to buy these cars?
speaker-0: We are we are infesti we we appreciate and understand the predicament that they are sometimes in and anything that helps them get through the trials and tribulations of being a professional tournament operator in the space, they should get.
speaker-1: Ten more finals for Moses. Ten more finals for Moses immediately. But also, no, he's right. Yeah, no, he is right. But wait, hold on. Before we'll get into the fun stuff here in a second, the actual things that people are probably listening to this for. We'll talk about the major for real. But wait. What if you guys had to guess, how much do you think Donk's gold sticker is right now? If you had to guess.
speaker-2: $400.
speaker-0: ⁓ Jesus, this is gonna be stupid, isn't it? Problem is I really have been looking at magic cards whole the whole day, so I just see the inflation. I just see the explosion of price of the red
speaker-2: $400, $400 I'm going with.
speaker-1: One sticker, one sticker.
speaker-0: I'm going above that just because it feels like Flom's really hitting this one. ⁓ wait, no. The one sticker thing. Two fifty.
speaker-1: ⁓ you got you you you were you should have stuck with your gut initially. It is as of this moment seven hundred it's seven hundred and thirty six dollars and eighty seven cents for one gold donk sticker.
speaker-2: I wish I bought a bunch of them.
speaker-1: That's crazy.
speaker-0: Wait, wait, is it is it this is my brain is kinda broken right now, so give me a minute. Is it is it is it like magic where there is like, you know, that's a gold sticker. Can you get like a silver sticker or like left sticker?
speaker-1: Yes, there are other to give you context, Zaiwo's is three hundred and fifty-eight. Yeah, so Donk has got a I mean given the regions and who's probably you know got a a bigger fan base. I think Donk at the end of the day is probably gonna win that most of the time. Alright, all right, all right. Enough memeing around. That was that was Yeah. Well we'll get right into a fun one that's kind of
speaker-2: oils and glitters and stuff like that.
speaker-0: Okay. Yeah.
speaker-1: fun but also just what you have to ask and what I want to hear from you guys like all right who's is anyone gonna beat Vitality for Cologne? Let's go come on let's start the circle let's see what we got here
speaker-0: Wait, do you wanna know if I think somebody's gonna beat them or if if I think there's somebody who can beat them? How far you want this
speaker-1: Let's start with i is anybody going to take this major from vitality? Let's be definitive.
speaker-2: We should all start from last episode where Jason said g2 was the team that were capable of doing it How is that without Jason? ⁓
speaker-1: I'm saying ⁓ no big deal.
speaker-0: It's a fair point, Dinko. I I am very disappointed in in the G2 progression that I that I have not seen. He came in I was lamenting the I I know, he really did. He came in hot prepared for this shit. He went back, watched the last episode, took notes. He was waiting for that moment. ⁓
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. That's actually crazy.
speaker-2: So remember
speaker-0: ⁓ Yeah, they've they've looked ⁓ they haven't made the steps forward that I thought they would. So I mean we'll see coming the major, but I have no reason to be optimistic that we're gonna get any better. I still think they have the ability to, but obviously it's not even close to being there. So I mean I guess if anyone ⁓ the c the question would then become, can Navi do it again? Falcons can you know, they've now made back to back finals, even though they haven't won them. and then Spirit, obviously, the other big one. I don't think legacy, even with that tournament victory, is gonna be propelled into the conversation, but really the only three teams in this conversation are Navi, Spirit, and Falcons.
speaker-1: Yes. Agreed. A hundred percent agreed. Yeah, yeah.
speaker-2: and only Falcons anywhere but a grand final. Like if they meet them in the semi-final, we're good. I think that's a chance.
speaker-1: Even if they catch somebody that they think I'm telling you, Falcons cannot win if they are expected to beat somebody in high pressure situations. If they find them in a quarter final, if they find them in a semi like I swear, man, they just even the wins they get never look like I I will come clean though, I did not watch that final versus legacy. That was at ungodly hours for me. And I was traveling back forth. You watched so I saw clips. Yeah, I definitely watched some of the clips, but I didn't like see the game. But based on the score, it felt like business as usual for Falcons in the sense that they do all right. They win the other team's map pick. They were in a position to bring back the game and win map two. They fumble it and then they just crash the fuck out and lose. And that is what the score sheet at least said to me without watching the game, which is just business as usual. And their T side round was like in terms of what they won, I didn't see them. I'm not gonna pretend like I know. But that was very small amount of T side rounds, which is what Kerrigan's in there to fix. And holy shit, did he just like not shoot anyone? He was on like a pacifist run.
speaker-2: Dude, Cooper's was so good man. Cooper was like, Carrigan just kind of sitting around, was Izzy DMing or is he just kind of sitting around figuring out different ways to rush B? And I seen another more sort of advanced take. Maui tweeted about like just the stat line of Carrigan. He's never won a tournament unless he had above of 0.86 rating or something around that number. yeah, Carrigan really did. to bot out individually like really badly. So, I mean, obviously that's got to improve. that was the hit. That's the biggest worry we had. We're coming into this Falcons team. Like we know what Karagin brings to the team, but he's been struggling in phase for a long time individually. We knew Kixxen was a better frag in in-game leader. So you definitely gonna lose that. You're gonna definitely take a hit and you wonder is the leveling up of Kiyosuke gonna be enough alongside obviously the firepower you got in Niko and Monocy. And I think traditionally that would have been the case, but I think we're seeing in older versions But I think we're seeing now like everyone can frag get that in these better teams, right? And it's you're losing the teams like legacy in the finals ⁓ And do Mao was just shredding them up
speaker-0: What you're trying to say about legacy.
speaker-1: ⁓
speaker-2: They are getting paid as much as falcons and
speaker-0: About money. Don't make it about money. Not inside the server.
speaker-1: Help some other Moses? ⁓ I wanna remind you of this for FML2 that I'm gonna rem I'm gonna hold this.
speaker-0: I'm talking about players.
speaker-2: I have money really matters
speaker-1: Alright.
speaker-0: Inside the server.
speaker-1: ⁓ I mean you're kinda connected usually, right? You're on the you're in Spectate, no TV.
speaker-0: ⁓ not my personal account, you know. It's ⁓ it's more of a tournament operation
speaker-1: Wait, wait, but actually I wanna what the fuck is going on with Nico man? You talk about like relying on Nico for firepower. Holy shit, but not in finals right now, like it's really bad.
speaker-2: Good sometimes.
speaker-0: Why are we relying on Nico for firepower? He's been saying for like the last three months he's taken a step back to let the other guys be the star.
speaker-1: Make ⁓ I GL, man, like pick one!
speaker-0: Okay, I'm not I'm not against that as a theory, but we're past that moment. We brought Kerrigan in. That's a conversation that's not what we're having right now.
speaker-1: I am not subscribing to Nico is just we are not doing the Nico's a role player so he forgot how to fucking headshot people. That is not no, I am not letting that shit fly. I'm
speaker-0: I'm not saying he forgot how to do it. I'm I'm just saying he puts himself in less priority positions and I think he tries to have a different mindset and a more supportive mindset and a more take your time mindset. So I don't think it's like forgot how to headshot. I just think the killer mentality isn't there right now. I think he hasn't hasn't found the killer mentality comfort in what he's trying to now do for the team as he kind of changes his focus. Now you can argue whether that's right or wrong or whether he should be or shouldn't be, but I think that's what's happening with Nico at the moment.
speaker-2: Yeah. I think the mental thing with Nico is definitely a factor like you can't deny that now I mean it's seen so many big finals throughout his career so many big moments I think the the deagle shot from behind on heaven nuke. Yes. It was a big moment I don't think it was as like big as people pointed out to be I think it's kind of this sort of myth has grown into a crazy legend now of that moment But I mean there are definitely worse moments. I think on dust 2 I can't remember what team was against but he's coming out underpass. He has a deagle shot on short the head turn He's missed that here in this final legacy you know coming through cave that was ugly you know he's had a lot of these moments and there's one thing that kind of spring to mind when I was reading because we were in Atlanta and we were like ⁓ while Astana was on And I was following the other game as much as I could in between our breaks when, you know, so we went between maps, so check up on the other match that was on at same time. And one of the headlines that kind of reached out to me and stuck with me is the fact that it says, Nico almost clutches 1v4 versus Spirit. And this is, to me, it's like, yeah, it's like almost clutches. And that is pretty much summarizing Nico to me right now. He gets right there to the finish line. He just, he just can't. Get over it. He just can't finish. And that's the part I think has been the big problem for Niko in his career, Getting to all these finals, getting to all these sick moments in the game. He's like 95 % of the way there. And I think it's the same for Falcons. I think it's the same story for this team. They're almost there. Just one more superstar and they're there. They've got it over the line. yeah, I think for Falcons, are a team that obviously are always going to have a threat. But for me... in all seriousness, yeah, they just lack that killer instinct to finish things. I think that I was really hoping that a win here could start that kickstart that, you if they won this tournament, I think going into the major, I'm a lot more excited about them because they kind of get over that mental hurdle. If not, then yeah, I feel like it's gonna be.
speaker-0: Actually happy with them right now. They got the two finals in a row. I'm fine. Like I don't know how much more you know, it'd be it'd be nice if they won one, especially over Legacy where you're a bigger but Legacies looked better as well under art, so that's been kinda cool to watch. So that one doesn't surprise me and a Brazilian team hitting a little bit of a leg.
speaker-1: Surprised you that Legacy beat Falcons three one?
speaker-0: ⁓ no, it doesn't surprise me that Falcons lost the grand final in which they were favored in this situation, but I'm happy they made it to the final. Like you want to talk about Kixon being a better fragging IGL. It's like what does that matter when he they weren't getting to finals with him? You know there is a Kerrigan difference going on.
speaker-2: finals of Hey Man.
speaker-1: But they did. They they fade away. No not recently. So we're just rinse we're just doing the G two thing. We're just green G two now with Monasy and Nico. We're just
speaker-0: Guys, it's it's it's potentially the greatest in-game leader of all time. You're not telling me you're gonna fucking party.
speaker-1: I like Kerrigan Moses. I don't care. I'm gonna I you have to be criticized. You cannot You can still be the gun and still be ass in that final and that was what he did.
speaker-0: What is it It's not great.
speaker-2: I would definitely be on your side a little bit more in this Jason and be happier more positive if If you look at the runs though, like the teams they beat on the way. It's a it's a little More concerning right they lose to in Astana. They lose to 9k 27 Monty they lose a map to the Mongols. They beat Fiora her in decline and then they beat magic Second place to say What I mean is yes getting to the finals good
speaker-1: Taylor.
speaker-0: Where did they get Nastana? Where did they finish? Okay.
speaker-2: but I feel less confident in them because you beat Legacy 2-0 earlier in the CES Asia Championships and they lose in 3-1 in the final. To me, I think it's just a highlight of just like, it's obviously.
speaker-0: I'm not trying I'm not trying to sit here and say they don't have fucking issues. Like I'm just you know, I've just said two finals in a row off the back of Kerrigan joining with minimal practice. Now they get two to three weeks off. There's I don't know if they're gonna be better, but I mean I think we have to maintain the potential. I think I think they can beat Vitality in a best of three. I don't think they can beat Vitality in the final.
speaker-2: It's like hooksy.
speaker-1: I'll try to like keep it shorter here so and then cause I just feel like we're well I feel like I'm just hating on Fal I know, I know. So but like ⁓ do you think it's because they just added Kerrigan as southeam smell or do you think they actually are building something? See, I don't believe it's real. I think it's faux. I think I think they're not really building anything. That's why I get so frustrated. Who the fuck cares? Well I do because they shouldn't be sh
speaker-0: We've only focused on Falcons. All I care about with Falcons is the major. After the major
speaker-1: I know that's what I'm saying. So do you think they're like actually building towards the major or like so you think with the two finals, that's like legit. Like they're building something good that like they're they're they're progressing something. I guess we you guys were working in Atlanta and I didn't see, so maybe you don't feel comfortable saying that like
speaker-0: Yeah, I didn't see I haven't seen much of a stunt on a lot of the Falcons games are just on my watch list for the flight. So I haven't gone in depth on any of them yet. ⁓ but let's just say this is a general statement is that Kerrigan fragging issues aside, well fragging issues spotlighted, those are in theory going to get better. Maybe not better in terms of number, but better in terms of quality and impact. Because even when FaZe was at their best Kerrigan wasn't some fucking sick fragger boat. Kerrigan's always been really, really good at is understanding when the moment is for him to make a play that will change things, that will have impact. And Kerrigan has a weird habit of finding like a 1v3, a 1v2. When you need it most, for no good reason, he turns into a god in that moment, wins you one important round a game. That's all you need out of him because this team is for Monasi, for Kiyosuke, and it's for Nico as that third star. So Nico doesn't even need to have those pop-off crazy numbers. That's gonna be for Manasi Kiyosuke. Nico's just gotta be rock solid, which admittedly has always been an issue of them. So yeah, I think Falcons is a team you can't write up at all. I think two grand finals in a row shows a positive sign. Yeah, I would have liked to have seen them beat Legacy in that grand final. They would have liked to have had a trophy right before the major, but ⁓ shit, I think they're gonna be perfectly happy with two grand finals, two second places. And now we just gotta see what they're gonna show up to because the pressure's only gonna get bigger on them, and the pressure is gonna be on them every single game they play. at the major, not just playoff games, not just elimination games. It's going to be if we don't fucking win this game, we're gonna have to avoid social media until our next game tomorrow because everyone's gonna be fucking laughing at us. Yeah. So it's all gonna be there. It's just like for this team, the major decides everything. And it's not that I don't care what comes next, it's that I'm not even letting myself think past the major with this team at this point.
speaker-2: I mean Yeah, I mean that was your question, Flam, is the idea of like for Falcons, is any team going to be able to beat Vitality? you know, you look at the resources Falcons have, the players they've got, I get that was, that's the whole frame I'm going with. You know, I don't think it's necessarily like disappointing to see them make two finals in a row this early with Carrigan. That it's not disappointing. It's just in the context of, are they going to be able to beat Vitality in a meaningful game? That's the other side of things. And I think I would have liked to have seen them win this game, this final, this tournament. get through the event they were meant to win, for me to feel super confident in calling them as a team that are capable of beating Vitality at the most important event of the year.
speaker-0: Now you wanna know who won a great final heading into the major that that's gonna have a nice little boost to them. Flam this is how you do transitional work.
speaker-1: I was actually working on it. I was actually ready, dude. I'm working on it. I was actually ready. I was so ready.
speaker-2: I feel like he was cooking there, Jason. The whole time he zoned out, he didn't even listen to your speech about that.
speaker-1: No, he's got it, he's got it, he's got it. I don't ⁓ so so Navi, huh? ⁓ what do I think of Navi? We'll start, I guess.
speaker-2: Let's redo it. What would you have done?
speaker-0: Wonderful looks fucking awesome. Yeah. He looks also like what what this is what we always wanted out of Wonderful. He's got it now. Yes. And he seems to have found consistency.
speaker-1: What I still don't believe it.
speaker-2: happen.
speaker-0: You're still like not ready?
speaker-1: I don't well, I believe in I I think Wonderful can have a good major. And he actually I I think this is pure vibes. I think he's actually at majors usually better than when he plays so usually the fact that he's playing better coming into a major is a great sign. I mean, like you know now now I wonder if he levels up even more, even if he just stays the same. I think it's ⁓ a realistic, you know, expectation that Wonderful will continue to deliver. I just don't know if Wonderful stays at that level, is it really enough to beat Vitality on their best day? And ⁓ Atlanta was weird because we all know Vitality came in I mean, bro, they're they're on vacation. Like they basically took a vacation before the major to to let themselves reset, which is I'm not criticizing. I I think that was probably smart. Like they're so you ⁓
speaker-0: They told everyone the situation. Like we're going to fucking Yosemite. We're going we're going to Michelin so it's little bit
speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. Like they should. They they got their grand slam and they're like, all right, let's let's get a reset.
speaker-2: Yeah.
speaker-0: So this is I guess where we should have started this this section would have been like, how much do you believe the vitality bubble has been popped? How much do you feel like it's been broken? Like that that air of like dominance and in
speaker-1: They would legitimately have to like not make playoffs for the rest of the year and lose both majors before I consider them like
speaker-0: Not you, not you guys, the other teams. How much do you think Navi said, ⁓ that's the win we needed? How much do you think Spirit winning Astana looked over and said ⁓ vibe?
speaker-1: Do you think that is I think that helps Navi a lot. I d that's where I was gonna go is like the this this I mean sure. Navi Navi lost to them a lot. Like Navi lost to them like they they lost to like ten times more than everybody else. So I think yes, it helps other teams be like, okay, they can lose, but they weren't the ones that did it.
speaker-0: I think it's hel helps everyone a lot.
speaker-2: Yeah, it makes them look human, right?
speaker-1: And they also, outside looking in, know all the things that we're talking about. And so does Navi, but they were the ones that actually got to like beat them in the server. They got to sit in there and actually like, this is our time. Y'all are going now, yeah. You enjoy your vacation. Go back to your Michelin restaurants real quick. We're gonna take it from here. You know, I think that was huge for them. And they won, I don't want to say like they absolutely dominated them to the point where I was like, wow, vitality. But they vitality looked formidable enough to where The game was just like solid. Like the game was fun to watch. And on Inferno, we saw like the reverse happen. Usually it's Vitality gets to the third map. Or sorry, Navi gets to the third map. And they're kind of like whimpering, right? And they kind of like they threw they threw a map before that. And then Vitality's like, Yep. Bye-bye, buddy. It's time for you to go home. This kind of felt like the exact opposite for Navi in this scenario in that in that game. And I think that That'll power them up, hopefully, for the major. And I would put them as like my favorite of like the the three that we listed. Even as the guy that said I think Spirit really does have the best chance to take them down. In context of like what we've seen so far, I would actually take Navi right now going into the major as the most likely team because they also have the deepest map pool. If it's a grand final for versus vitality, I don't I don't think spiritful and and magics cannot no, that will not happen. Like you can only get so much you can only get so much individual firepower to t to win you some of those maps in a best of five.
speaker-0: Well, that's almost where I would like say there's almost even like a positive point towards that to the spirit camp where they're the only team I think that has one player that can just win you the game. You know, like dog can just win you a map. Or he just comes in and gets you thirty five kills and you're like, ⁓ well that helps.
speaker-1: Honestly.
speaker-2: Yeah, I think the other the counter-strike is such a mental game like all competition. So I think if you're a Navi, I You're going to realize that you won because Vitality were not at their best and they were not practicing, they were on vacation. You're going to realize that. But I don't think you can even let that thought come into your mind on the lead up to the major. I don't think you can let that be a common consensus across the team. You've got to just say, we beat Vitality. You need to get yourself into that mindset of like, we beat them. We are the most recent winners here. We need to let that be the moment that breaks that mental block that you had against them where you kind of want to blame map against them. This is 2024, right? So I think this is something you just have to make sure that even if it's folly, even if it's not a hundred percent true, I think you've just got to go with it and run with it and have that be your mental framework going into the major to give yourself the confidence to beat them again. Because, and from Vitality's perspective, obviously the opposite is true for them. Like, yes, you lost to Na'Vi, you lost this tournament the first time you went out before you get to the top four since this second event with ROPS, right? Or the first event with ROPS. ago and but you've got to say that only happened because we ended up not practicing or leading up to and we're exhausted right there's two mentalities that need to be brought into the major one for vitality is like that didn't matter and one for Na'Vi that has really mattered and obviously from the outside we look at it with a more objective lens and we can see okay we can see the reality of both of those situations but I think for for Na'Vi and Vitality they have to specifically live in those the framing that will help them win in the mental game of the major
speaker-0: There's a third mentality they could have, and I guess this is the scary one, is if Vitality say, ⁓ time for us to come back and prove yet again that we're the fucking daddies in the room. You know, like that 'cause I I guarantee, I guarantee that's Apex's. It's not like it not like it doesn't matter that we lost, more just like, great, now I have the now everyone fucking doubt. Now everyone thinks we're fucking beatable again. Yeah. Yeah. And I guarantee that's the perspective Apex is gonna take. And the question is over these next two to three weeks, can you get the rest of the team to take that perspective as well?
speaker-2: But also when I look at Vitality when they lost that game, and in my first perspective, then I tweeted out as well, I was thinking like, Zywoo actually looks so dejected and Apex looks dejected in the seats. I had the mentality of like, Vitality might not deeply care about this tournament because they understand the realities of everything. But I think that familiar feeling that they lost of losing just crept back in. They had almost forgotten what that feels like to lose a tournament. Oh shit, losing actually sucks. Like this actually really sucks. And I think maybe the feeling of losing is more powerful than the feeling of winning almost. So I think that's gonna, yeah, I absolutely believe that that's what Apex is gonna do going into this and the whole Vitality organization will just go into full practice mode and obviously come out swinging with a new hunger and desire. Like I think honestly this, the feeling of losing, the reminder of loss is only going to make them hungrier for the win again at the Major.
speaker-1: Yeah. I mean I think most like any great team, it's always they they hate losing more than they even enjoy winning, especially once you start winning that much. It's like that that feeling and yeah, when you remind them of it, you're just poking the bear. You know, you're just you're just giving Apex more fuel. And and Moses says, like, if if Apex can get them all on that page. And he might not, but based on everything we've seen so far, Apex will. And that's the most terrifying thing is like I don't know how he did it. I don't know. You know, I don't know if it's his French charm or whatever he's got going on over there, but like he has got all the young guns on his team fully bought in. It's verbal abuse. Everything he says, they understand it and they might not always agree in the moment, but like the overall approach and like how they should be viewing their team is unmatched. Like I think that's gotta be that is his biggest strength as an IGL is now that he has a winning team, I feel like we've never seen a team look as motivated and as like Stoic a ⁓ or maybe so or fueled. They're fueled, right? Like they're always fueled, even when they're winning. There's never like the ⁓ well, we got all this
speaker-0: Well it's his team.
speaker-2: Don't run out of goals. They don't run out of goals every time they get accomplished something they immediately have the next thing in their sight like they have this insatiable desire of victory and I
speaker-1: And really, this is all Astralis' fault. This is Astralis' fault because the way they went down, Apex saw it. No, fuck Astralis. Apex saw what happened to the whole world. He really said, and he gets to say every time to his guys, you see what happened to them, that's not happening to us. We're fucking grinding this thing down all the way until the fucking wheels fall off. And we're gonna we're gonna take this as far as we can go. And you better not fucking quit because this is the best team you will ever play on. They're like, yeah, he's right. Let's go. Like, I mean
speaker-0: Even if another global pandemic comes, we're gonna rock this shit online the whole
speaker-1: They were before that. That was just the nail in the coffin. They were trying to run eight players, Moses. They were trying to bring an entire hockey line to to all their fucking tournaments.
speaker-2: Stop going to the big events like they stopped going to the big tournaments because of that blast thing, right? So they get back in that day They would end up going to like blast Istanbul when the other biggest tournament was on elsewhere And you know, we sadly didn't get to see that the Astralis team dominate maybe as much as they could have obviously even towards the end I think they could have done more but yeah Another another reason was like that Astralis team also they all got burnt out like that the organization like burned out the players the players are all just done with it towards the end and then
speaker-1: It's a
speaker-2: Vitality have realized that too and are now like okay. This is why it's so important to have a break What is why we need to like send a couple players off in one direction the coaching staff in the other direction? I mean the coaching staff all went to a Spurs game in Texas and we seen the Obviously apex and a messy went out to New York and the others went to California so you know they actually went off and beat their individual people come back to Atlanta again and obviously didn't go as well, but I'm thinking that the major, I really do think Vitality are going to dominate this major and then close it out again. I just, feel like that's coming.
speaker-1: Yeah, it's gonna kinda piss me off, but yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. I think I think But what do we okay, we we gotta talk about him a little bit though. Like, do we think we I mean we listen, ⁓ we have to. Like who is it? No no, spirit sir, spirit, spirit sir a little I feel like we kinda glanced over it. Like, what do you guys do you guys think like
speaker-0: Which Do you think Spear can beat them if Holly comes back?
speaker-2: You guys, okay.
speaker-1: See, that's what I was gonna ask you is Yeah, I was gonna say, do you what do you that's actually what I was gonna ask you guys? Is like do you what how do you feel about the coaching situation at Sprug? Do you agree with ⁓
speaker-0: Honest of God, if I'm if I'm the spirit GM, I'm telling Holly, sorry bro, we need you to sit this one out too. Right. This guy's got him playing really well. Improvements across the board. We've lifted a trophy. Guys are happy right now. Things are headed in the right direction. And, you know, we're gonna see how this major goes.
speaker-1: It's so weird. It's like the hot hand, but of coaches. Like it's like usually, you know, you you follow the hot hand, whoever's got it going. You the hot goalie in playoffs or the hot hand for the quarterback in the NFL, you just kind of roll with it and see how far it takes you. But now it's weird to talk about it with a coach, but I think you have to if you're spirit, because it wasn't working before, like definitively, Magics was not progressing. It didn't really seem like the team enjoyed the way they were playing. Tanier was completely offline still. He's never been and then as soon as Halley's gone. Tanir's like, that's right. Actually, I'm really good at the game and I can absolutely assist Donk and even win us maps myself as well. And now you went from like this Shiro Donk hyper aggressive passive to where now they actually have a fucking mid round. They have a guy that is actually walking around trying to actually do things in the middle of rounds and inject himself in a way and he's confident doing it. Because holy shit, if I gotta watch Zontix walk around on T-side completely terrified and still finding a way to die and have zero impact, I'm gonna freak the fuck out. So like having that like. Ability to have they have like each layer of the game now. They they really do. And and they don't rely solely on Donk to just like open everything up. They they can truly be a little bit slower and they can still have access to that level of Donk of like, you know, when they play certain maps, yes, you just let Donk run it down and you see how far that takes you until a team proves they can stop it. But if they do, now you don't need to just be like, well, now what? Like cause Zontix wasn't giving I like Zontix. Like Zontix, I'm not trying to sound like a hater, but that was the big problem on their T side. Yeah, the T side was just a massive, glaring issue anytime Donk was not successful in the first 30 seconds of a round. ⁓ it was it was so pain like Magics couldn't figure out how he wanted to move the team. They didn't really know how they wanted to inject people into certain parts of the map. They didn't know how they wanted to pressure ⁓ other areas of the map and then feed off of that to work another side. They were just completely flat in one note all the time. And it's not even like I I don't know, like it has to be the coach because as soon as Halley was gone, it was like a a light switch. I don't know how you the my mind cannot process how it could be anything else. That feels really fucked up for Halley because he's got some shit going on and he's gone and then the entire team, maybe that's what maybe they just need a kick in the ass, but
speaker-2: It's like the worst case scenario when you take a break from this like it's gonna be nope everything's going better when I left the door Shit, but but I think it's it's hard to call like not knowing like how everything's working over there at team spirit How much is Holly still? Preparing the game plans how much exactly providing and like sending over to the team how many like are they having calls and meetings before the
speaker-0: If you believe the spirit guys and what they've said in their interviews, this is the big thing. 'Cause they they played some decent defense for Halley. I mean a lot of what Sotvik said in the interview is like, we I keep his structure and I'm changing some of the details within like his big short big picture idea, which is I don't know, like sure. Just do you Yeah, like I can't really
speaker-1: Sure.
speaker-2: I'm improving everything he's done.
speaker-0: Can't argue with that, but it also kinda tells me nothing at all. Like I think various players have bounced back and forth of saying he's not doing much to he's doing everything to he's doing a lot, ⁓ depending on the player.
speaker-2: The way to find out and that's bringing back.
speaker-1: ⁓ God. Dude, no, you gotta ride the wave. You have to ride the wave, at least into the major
speaker-0: I seen surfing
speaker-2: the way for sure but you know like if he come back and they just play the same in the major and Holly's with them then Then we just kind of read into a little bit too much But I but then if he comes back, you know Holly's never getting a coaching job ever again So he needs I think that's the other scary part too It's like if he comes back and they do shit the bed. It's like ⁓ well you suck and yeah I think that would be pretty bad for him So I think even even his perspective might be might be a world in which you might want to just sit out and let her ride
speaker-0: On some level I think it would actually put him in a really fucking awkward situation. That's Yeah. Like it would just be yeah. What happens when the first time a player says to you, Well this isn't how Satvik did it? You know, like we liked it this way. Like what are you supposed to do then?
speaker-2: That's what I'm saying, yeah. It's like a substitute teacher comes in, way better than the regular one, you know?
speaker-1: Do we think with the with the coaching change, do you think like Spirit could actually do something to Vitality? I feel like they could. I feel like the problem is I think Spirit could actually beat ⁓ Vitality before best of five. I think as soon as we get to best of fives, though, the only team that has a chance, at least in my opinion, despite them getting absolutely bodied, by the way, in most best of five or in all best of fives versus them. I I do think that when you look at the map pool, they should be able to go toe-to-toe. With them across the best of five, where I don't have as much faith in that for spirit. So but I I think if they caught ⁓ in like a quarter or semi, they could beat anybody else. And I think that they can beat them in a best of three. Like it just
speaker-0: Yeah, I think Spirit can beat any of the other teams for sure. I think against Vitality, their biggest weakness is like not so much the like Matt Pool a little bit. Obviously, he's always gonna be an issue with Vitality, but I think more so it's the the lack of experience together with Magics as a caller and the way Apex is gonna be able to kind of call around those situations. I think that's gonna be a huge disadvantage. you know, I don't I don't I actually I wouldn't pick Spirit. I haven't I haven't latched on I know Spirit's like really good, but I haven't latched on to the full faith that that I think they're like an ultra dang dangerous team challenging for the main Major trophies specifically. I'm I I want to see them first ⁓ at the major itself. I know. I I am in some ways. I don't know why. It's just there.
speaker-2: We haven't boiled
speaker-1: He just doesn't believe in the dog still. Remember earlier he said he couldn't maintain that shit? He's back on his bullshit.
speaker-0: How did I ever say that?
speaker-2: We got the receipts anyway, I got another receipt for you in a second Jason But it's a pretty good. It's a good one. I'm like it It's true I do kind of go all out on you The other thing is like we were we were talking about g2 earlier. I brought that up Jason But the other team that we were all kind of high on
speaker-0: Magic, I'm always targeted.
speaker-2: Was was para vision like a team that I think started the year so so sharp They could be a team that could really make things weird provides that no like they've they've really made the Yeah, that without per I remember us talking about the the Bucharest tournament recasting and you know We started to see the first cracks really start to form with all like a lot of mistakes are coming in Dastan came on the couch He was like you know I wish I could cut them all now to be honest like it turns out they haven't really recovered from those cracks It's just started to get worse
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, I don't I don't know where what's going on with that one at all. ⁓ I I guess that'd be a fun case study into like if like coaching technique. You know, like do you want to go this route of like you know, like at some level I like don't have any issue with that. I'm like, fuck yeah, Destan's a hard ass, and I've taught Counter-Strike, I've taught game with him enough times to where I know he's on top of his shit and and he knows Counter-Strike very well. So I'm kind of like, yeah, get like ride those, like get those rookies in shape. But obviously if they don't respond to it in any kind of a positive way, you just kind of watch this team kind of break down from the inside. So that that's kind of a s that's kind of scary because it it does I don't know. It just feels like they've imploded. Like the the losses and like the way they're getting eliminated now, where most of the season were like playoffs and and challenging best of three series. Now you're just kinda like, ⁓ God, this is terribly fucking gone south.
speaker-1: I think I I'm willing to to say I think this is the problem with his coaching. I mean, I think as it's just that it's that simple. You can he built those players up along with James and they they all think and do and play their system in their way. And he he's absolutely like when he's getting upset and like the rounds they throw, like it's not it like incorrect. The problem is when you build up players the way that they did, and in my opinion at least, like That you've completely removed and stripped the individuality of all the players out of them. ⁓ that you are you are their disciples and you are supposed to look at the game their way. You do want them all in Counter-Strike. You do want everybody to have their own and same idea of how to play the game. The problem is when you do that, especially I think when you have younger players who are inexperienced like them, you can't also then have them switch it back on. They're not like human like you can't just be like, listen, play it this way. This is how you do it. And then you have success. So now you've had success. You've all played that way. And you're all kind of like, this is working. But we can't really keep the consistency because Counter-Strike still is as much of a team game as it is having individual moments and individuality. So when you take that away, you can't be like, Well, we actually need some of that now. And if you start adding some of that back and then they start making mistakes, you can't grind them into the ground again either because Now you're like, well, I'm trying to play your way, but also like we need me to kind of actually think for myself a little bit. And if every single time I'm like getting grilled because I make a mistake in those individual like choices, you just end up imploding the team. I feel like you can't keep driving home the point the same way and expect them to like have some sort of individuality that can help maintain the consistency that will give your team a little bit of flair essentially at the higher end when you start playing the big boys all the time. You can't just like play that one note all the time and expect them to disintegrate like to to beat those teams. You won't beat them.
speaker-0: Can I I'm gonna rephrase that entire thing into a different perspective because this is the way I looked at it. But I think it's kind of the same point. I think it's just from the different angle of it, where yours comes from like the kind of player perspective. I think mine would come from from more of Destan's of I think this is that first point in some of these young guys' careers, like Jell O, you know, Bel Shinoc. Noda, maybe even a little bit Zwei, maybe not so much. He's got a little bit more. But it's probably the first moment in their careers where they've realized they're good enough to hang with the big boys on like an individual and team level. So you're seeing a little bit of that ego kind of flare up and that confidence kind of like building of them being able to say, to start to feel like because they can hang with them, they kind of know better. And I think the feeling would be that you know they're pushing past some of like the strategic and tactical guardrails that have been put in place by Deston, by James. So where you're saying it's like they need to have the freedom to make their own decisions. I think from the other side it's like you have the freedom to make your own decisions within this structure, but there are certain points in guardrails where you need to follow like what what the goal is and what the strategy is in this in this particular moment. And your individual decisions have to be in pursuit of that strategic goal. And sometimes the ego and the confidence flares up and like changes your thinking. You're like, ⁓ I can take this extra peak. I can swing out a little bit wider. I can actually hang with this guy. I can just go challenge him. And I think maybe that's where the mistakes from a coach's perspective hit the same note that you're talking about from a different POV. It's just kind of like, what the fuck, guys? Like, you can't you can't these are terrible decisions. You know? All about individuality and individual decision, but this is just objectively a bad one. And this is This is a huge assumption and I w that's where my brain leads to what's going on in ParaVision right now, but obviously I know nothing internally about what's actually ⁓
speaker-1: Yeah, me either. Yeah, me either.
speaker-2: I think that's the thing about these teams and like famously, you know, james teams You have always kind of been an enigma you the only thing you can do is kind of Hypothesized from the outside of like what what might be going on and ⁓ I think that I like both of your theories on it
speaker-0: This has been the most vocal like I feel like we've gotten in terms of the insight when you have the coach coming out and giving those those interviews and saying those things. Like it feels like it's like the most obvious like where at least from his perspective where the problem is lying at the moment. So
speaker-2: And I think they rode a high so quickly, you they rose up so quickly and now you've got that like humbling crash down to reality. Yes. There are are stage three team at the major and I look at every team in stage three and with the way they're playing right now, they will get banged out like pretty, pretty brutally. But this is.
speaker-0: What's so cool is is Jame actually even had that interview ⁓ just pulled it up just cause it you triggered my mind with that is he even said like the headline of this is we were ready for the slump to happen soon so we are not experiencing shock and horror from our poor results. January, February, March, April. That's back in May.
speaker-1: If you don't say that though, then Dustin says I'm gonna cut some people. Like you can't
speaker-0: I mean it's it is it is a pretty hardcore follow up, I'm not gonna lie to you.
speaker-1: Really that's really good cop, really bad cop. That's like
speaker-0: When I saw that I was kind of like, okay, so like they have the mentality at least. I saw like that kind of like a shade of like vitality of always setting the next goal, except now it's understanding like the peak, the ebbs and flows of building a team and a team rising through the ranks and and they'll be a little bit more prepared and ready for this. And obviously I was wrong. Obviously, I was just wrong.
speaker-1: Well I mean it's hard man, it's har it's hard to predict that it's impossible. But that's why, you know, Dinko's gonna have the receipts though, Moses. You bet your sweet ass he's gonna have ⁓
speaker-0: So I'm prepared.
speaker-2: ⁓ I think this season of Counter-Strike like has been really interesting like I feel like it's been a very different Season of CS like we come into it with new characters that I feel like you know foot and para vision just rose up at the start really quickly I think towards the end of the season thing I really enjoyed watching was like gamer Legion suddenly coming back on this little US tour and Hypex becoming like an actual offer ⁓ So I think this season's had like a fun storylines for me So what is being your guys like favorite takeaway so far as we go into? to the last event of the first half of the year.
speaker-0: Liquid qualified to the major.
speaker-1: Shut the fuck up. There's no one you're rage mating me. You stop. You can't leave I hate you. I qualify flop. I hope somebody fucking runs mono blue and doesn't let you do anything at the next the major or something. Just ⁓ god. Hope somebody just like actually just bullies you. Alright, ⁓ fun fun like most fun storyline are like, ⁓ man.
speaker-2: What a rage baby. Could just be me for a time, man. ⁓ I'll try I'll do my best
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: I yeah, foot and gamer legion I agree, but ⁓ just to kind of really stay ⁓ on brand here for me, I like it I am so happy to see Spirit actually win something and not fade away and completely crumble because
speaker-2: North American spokesman, flom.
speaker-1: Yeah, well okay, do you want me to really start about North America? The best team in North America right now, we were all fucking wrong. You want to talk about receipts? It's wild card Wild card! It's not liquid either. It's fucking ⁓
speaker-2: I said Team Liquid! I quit with smack wild card.
speaker-0: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, tell honestly, if you dropped what let's go. ⁓ eighty wildcard NRG liquid into a four-team best of three rumble. Double elimination. How confident are you that wildcard is coming out on top?
speaker-1: Okay, I'm leaving. I'm leaving. No
speaker-2: A fl-
speaker-1: ⁓ I'm not confident in any of these teams. Confident is not a word that exists with any of these teams.
speaker-2: You're the only team recently who have won anything!
speaker-1: Who the hell says they're confident about any one of those teams is bashed in the sand and needs to be evaluated immediately? I just want to make sure. But right now, I mean wild card's kind of the most fun. ⁓ no, like I love you guys are right. Liquid beat ⁓ eighty, so you guys got to, you know, they was looking grim there for a second, but luckily that was maybe the worst series I've ever seen out of Lake and Slacks combined, individually. Holy shit. It's
speaker-2: His hands wiped down with that big ring,
speaker-1: Maybe, maybe it's the the MVP curse or something. Like I I don't know. I that was the worst individual series I've seen out of them. And I I feel like a liquid hater. I didn't see anything in that series or like something that made me really feel different
speaker-0: ⁓ you saw you just didn't see anything good? Yeah don't no no. It was bad.
speaker-1: No, I mean I took a glance, there's nothing new here that's like ⁓ th this is just I feel like we're on the same script. Somebody showed me a clip of it. I didn't
speaker-2: That was rough. don't think any of us said that like I thought Team Liquid would be a made in any game that mattered and that happened but I never thought I think it's kind of sad that that's the reality because Team Liquid do not look good at all and yet they're still they still
speaker-1: Like That MD ⁓ A D did beat them, Dinko, when they actually were playing for their major spot. If you want to talk about when it mattered. Well, like they got very little.
speaker-2: Liquid already figured it ⁓
speaker-1: Mm.
speaker-0: Be f can we not throw shaded liquid for that? Like real talk here for just a second. It's not like liquid instigated the trade that brought mobs to to liquid and put them in the region to qual you know, like
speaker-1: not mad at liquid I'm mad at Liquid ⁓ for a lot of things and that's you're you're getting it's not one yes yes imagine if they actually just didn't spend money on like skulls and just like took that money and started an academy team or like did yeah what if they just did anything useful with all the money they've lit on fire. My fucking camera gave up but like there we go. Like actually though think about how Liquid and this is why I get so mad
speaker-2: to make sure.
speaker-0: Amalgamation.
speaker-1: Basically just buys a recycled European player that is literally on somebody's bench or th or should be, or maybe a South American, and they just waste too much money and we're just doing the same circle with it. Like I dude, it is so exhausting that they could I feel like they've never tried to gamble a North American talent ever. They don't believe in it. They do not ⁓
speaker-2: Elysia's a bit of a gamble. You don't know it's gonna implode your team or not.
speaker-0: Gambled on Grimm.
speaker-1: You got one player and they put ⁓ in pit, Jason.
speaker-0: Pits a good spot.
speaker-1: You're pissing me off. Like you dude. They they got one player and then now they got mobs only because he played well versus somebody else played for European T Like. ⁓ yeah, he's not a European
speaker-2: He got molves because he made them North American again.
speaker-1: Well yeah, I mean obviously but
speaker-0: That's what I just said. There wasn't that. Now I'm getting tilted.
speaker-1: No, I just I they I feel like they've never done anything to set themselves up for any amount of success long term. It always just feels like a short term move for a short term move. No there's
speaker-0: No no no. Should probably save that for another episode because I feel like you and I are very different sides of the coin. I mean ⁓ I get what you're I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. I'm just ⁓ like for me it's like because I like they did, they have gone out and gotten people. It's not like they've been sitting on their ass and like not taking swings and not bringing people. You know what I mean? Like that's
speaker-1: ⁓ well.
speaker-2: I think that's a good player break topic.
speaker-1: Hold on, we we got off track.
speaker-2: Almost everybody's got a liquid jersey in their closet now.
speaker-0: Well they do make a lot of different kinds of jerseys over there.
speaker-1: Isn't that just like the problem though? Like I feel like everybody else is like, we have an academy team. We moved up our academy player. And I'm not pretending that North America has the depth that other regions do at all. I don't wanna like sound like I think that they could just like have an academy team and it fix all their problems. But you just need like One player. You you're telling me that you don't think that with a with an actual system that if they actually invested even just like a few of those buyouts, but that's what I'm saying. This is all short term stuff. That's why and now Liquid is literally paying the price. That's how I feel. I feel like they're paying the price for not investing in that early.
speaker-0: Sure, potentially, but I think it's just a matter of which price are you gonna pay 'cause what's the what's the positive what's the what's the return on the business of running an Academy?
speaker-1: I mean at this point at this point they the Liquids playing in the same events that their Academy team would play in, so they can't do it now.
speaker-0: But well yeah, sure. But real talk like real talk. What is the bi what is the business proposition of having an academy?
speaker-1: Yeah, spend not spending ridiculous money on buyouts with players that you know are not
speaker-2: They're doing that though. Like I don't I don't feel like liquid art doing that anymore like
speaker-1: But I'm gonna go down the line.
speaker-2: Ultimate is not going to be an expensive player. I mean like what were you know you count from now? Is the player that you but but the trade out, right?
speaker-0: Why
speaker-1: Twist.
speaker-0: How was your stream today? Was it a fun stream? Was it a good stream?
speaker-1: ⁓ god, face it really kills me. I I'm not gonna lie. I'm gonna ⁓ it's i it could be part of this, I won't lie.
speaker-2: You trade you trade mulps and you you trade a leash with face like you aren't buying you're not paying for these players so
speaker-1: I didn't pay for nerds. ⁓
speaker-0: ⁓ they can for that.
speaker-2: They definitely pay for it.
speaker-1: Ukendo Cadian Skull.
speaker-2: The thing is like they made bad moves with those players. I feel like no
speaker-0: That's it.
speaker-1: A lot of money, dude.
speaker-2: No, but I'm saying I say they spent the money and then they let them go that's the other side That's the problem. You're gonna buy a
speaker-1: Listen, I'm not saying Well they do something. Okay, I that's but also what I am saying. They just it just feels like we're just duct taping everything. Like why? Like you don't want to. I don't want to. I don't want to. Okay, okay. Well we'll just okay. Does any NA team do anything in this major? We'll just read we'll we'll we'll circle back like that.
speaker-2: I have to do it this way. No, sadly I I feel like I was really excited about
speaker-0: Fine anything.
speaker-1: FML two or like do you
speaker-0: Ha ha ha ha ha.
speaker-2: No, they're gonna they got it. They're gonna perform there. I guarantee that don't to do all that
speaker-1: Wait, wait, wait. ⁓ I did. Did you get ⁓
speaker-0: Liquid and ⁓ eighty will make stage two. NRG will likely make stage two.
speaker-1: Okay. So you said liquid will and energy will?
speaker-0: Think I think all three of them will. Statistically one's probably not gonna make it. Statistically one's probably not gonna make it.
speaker-2: I would really like
speaker-1: I was about to say you really you take all
speaker-2: Dude, it's gonna be liquid M80 2-2 game, like everyone knows it. That's how it always happens with North American teams. And it always happens. They always have to cannibalize each other to move through to that.
speaker-0: I think I think I'd have to if of the three of them I'd pick NRG to not make it through. But it's not so much I don't think they've I think with like bro going out, like you know, like Rim coming in new, OC like O C's kinda dropped off from the start of the year. I don't know. I just don't have a good vibe and good feeling when I watch NRG play and I don't have a lot of confidence in that
speaker-2: Sadly Which is weird because I talked to them before the event and they were super happy with how things went well players were Daps didn't really give off that vibe, but everybody else was like You know they disappointed That's why I seemed like it was so sad to see them get abs, know, absolutely wrecked but
speaker-1: Gaps is never happy.
speaker-2: by foot and face, you know, and, and then they go to CS Asia championships and see it's like not great over there either, but at least they lost to legacy miles, like two decent teams. But for NRG, I was, I was most excited about them coming into this year. I think the grim move on paper looks great. Like you, get to take on the best North American pledge, bring him into the team, but they have not figured out how to use them yet. They just, have not figured it out.
speaker-1: Yeah, it's 'cause he wasn't a one to one. It's awkward as hell, you could tell. It's not
speaker-2: Yeah, and speaking to them, there's like the T side of the biggest struggles right now. They can't really figure it out. And they're saying like they want to improve the communication of the team. And they said that Grim hasn't necessarily found his voice and he's not a super vocal player yet. So I think they should figure out.
speaker-1: I thought they said he was vocal. That's why they were trying to give him
speaker-2: said some different things and when I spoke to them on media they're like I guess like that it maybe can be a little bit quiet or maybe it's the side the idea that like the kind of communication they want him to give maybe doesn't necessarily give that maybe doesn't like weigh in his opinion and really like affect the shape of the team I'm not sure exactly what they meant by that but there was definitely moments were fighting
speaker-1: ⁓ okay. Yeah, yeah. He yaps but is more along for the ride rather than like a commander himself kinda thing. Yeah.
speaker-0: Mike is brought into this team. Grim has been brought into this team to be the star fucking rifler. He's the star, he's supposed to be the star player, the volume fragger. Mike has those skills. And this is one thing Stewie always brought up when I was when I was there with Liquid when I when Grim had literally just joined right before I joined as coach. ⁓ Stewie always used to bring it up is that he doesn't have like the personality to him like for the star to be a star player. Like he doesn't have like the fucking killer attitude, doesn't have the attitude of like I'm gonna show and I'm gonna just fucking destroy everyone inside the server. And there's there's some trend Truth to that. Like, there's some truth that you have to have a certain mentality and a certain attitude, and some personalities don't have it. But that's one thing that Grimm is gonna have to at least develop or lean into and build up that side of his game. Like, he needs to have a little bit more like pride in the sense of I'm gonna show up and I'm I'm gonna fucking wreck this team and I'm gonna create all the openings for my squad. That that attitude has to be there, and Grimm's just not that kind of guy.
speaker-2: One emerge OC ⁓ But least he's better like he has he has a mentality of like they were gonna beat them like talking to me was he was confident I fired up and actually believe you know Yeah All right, but I would combine them that'll be good gross it grossy like you want to do it even more
speaker-0: He's the side. What's you to be doing? Well his alias would be grossy. That's pretty good. ⁓
speaker-1: I mean that was rough. That was rough. I was trying to find a segue out of that
speaker-2: that
speaker-1: Did you know that was just
speaker-2: We we got a graphic made ⁓ because we thought like OCE from an eye test perspective and like what really pops off the page like it feels like OCE just absolutely farms North American teams and then he goes and gets asses handed to him to buy weaker team better teams right in Europe and Then we actually looked at the stats and it turns out he actually was playing better against your pain teams, which is Statistically, but maybe not so much
speaker-1: used to be your storyline of OC was like when he first came in. Yes. But honestly his Liquidston, I think, helped him a lot. Like when he started and he started playing a lot better towards the end with that legendary Patsy Rainwaker lineup that he was on for a moment. He actually was probably their best player legendary lineup. ⁓ and I feel like what for whatever reason then after that he was never he never dominated NA teams like he used to. And he still is formidable against E EU teams. He's he's a weird one. I don't I don't know how to pin OC. He it's just mental, like at that point. I think I think Moses kind of alluded to it. He has a very similar personality, it seems like, to Grim, which for your opera is kind of you can be quiet, like you but you still have to have a a crazy amount of self belief at all times, especially as the opera and especially as a star rifler. You have to be delusional. Like there has to be a a touch of delusion and sanity. Yes. Otherwise, if you're too if you're too practical, you are not the right type of person. For those types of positions, because any normal person would have self-doubt, like and you can't really have any in these situations. And yeah, that's what when you go to energy, the problem is is Sonic is their best player and he's not supposed to be. And that that's basically the entire problem with energy. and it's kind of it's frustrating to see. And hopefully I feel like every interview DAPS is always saying that they're changing a bunch of things and like that they just need more time to work on it. But I just feel like if you're always needing more like when when when does it happen? Like so hopefully they said their outlook is the major. Let's see if it's true, I guess, ⁓ with energy. I guess it's it's hard to be confident. Yeah, that's gonna be so rough. ⁓ that's so rough. ⁓ man. I know. I was literally looking at their opening matchups, and ⁓ eighty is playing ⁓ what is it? Lindvision, I think, first, which is like that's a classic NA trap game to lose. And then Liquid will g lose to big.
speaker-0: And the nice thing is they gave you a really confidence inspiring quote, which is I think we should be able to get out of stage one. Even stage two.
speaker-1: Let's go, baby. Let's go.
speaker-2: That's the mindset. ⁓
speaker-0: Buy that flag.
speaker-1: Well yeah, so that's North American Counter Strike to a T I think. Really that one quote. We hope to get out of stage one, maybe stage two, we get out, like be kinda crazy.
speaker-2: North American thing that came from player from Polish coaches was that was the drama that I really enjoyed like it was like the coaches kind of going at each other Cuban ⁓
speaker-0: ⁓ yeah.
speaker-1: Wait, I missed this.
speaker-2: Yeah, and called called called the coach of wildcard fat ⁓ That was a whole drama that happened at the land and it was public and I I kind of loved it was like
speaker-0: Fucking hole.
speaker-1: Wait, but like what was it just like unprovoked?
speaker-0: I think they were like talking shit in the middle of the game and it was one of the things he shouted over to the other side, which in that context Yeah, but it's mean. It's personal but I was
speaker-1: Pretty
speaker-2: foot.
speaker-0: I thought when they were having a back and forth on Twitter, I was like, there is a generational difference between Cuban who grew up in like random land cafe tournaments around Poland, middle of nowhere, Poland countryside, wherever the fuck he had to go, and and you know, these guys ⁓ these guys and where they've kind of come from.
speaker-1: Well no, well he I think yeah yeah yeah yeah.
speaker-0: Actually he probably came from the shit. I forgot he was still generation.
speaker-1: I was about to say yeah, yeah.
speaker-2: Love each other. That's why they were going back and
speaker-0: We'll stick with the generational, not really
speaker-1: Thirty something. I like that out of Moses. That's smart. Thirty something. That's what he says his age is too. I was I was going more at you, but ⁓ I don't know.
speaker-0: How old is he? Yeah.
speaker-2: So, is 25.
speaker-1: Jason, they need to listen, who's got a worse HL T V picture? Me or Jason? Dinko, you have to answer.
speaker-2: Let see, let me flip flop.
speaker-0: Mine's probably pretty bad. Yeah, that's from a Starlighter event in like twenty seven.
speaker-1: They got the worst angle of you, Jason. They did you dirty. Mine mine just like yeah, it's just how it is.
speaker-0: Back in the day in Eastern European events they used to like layer makeup on, like you wouldn't
speaker-2: $600 though Jason just $600 in prize money. That's pretty sick
speaker-0: You like that? That was pretty fucking sweet. I think I won that off of Devil Walk in a one V one. Yeah. It's not great.
speaker-2: You beat Team Bardolph. The only win on the board here is against Team Bardolph, so that's a good one Jason.
speaker-0: It is a nice one to have. Well where was that at? Show match counter strike. That's show matches.
speaker-1: Moses top fracturers I buy power. Good shit. Well done.
speaker-0: Yeah, I do Odds to roll hard back in the day.
speaker-1: Yeah, you did. So wait, Dinko, you didn't answer the question, who's worse, me or Moses? And we'll get back to you.
speaker-2: Yeah, Jason's is worse.
speaker-1: They did you horrible. They did they really did you horrible, Jason. I'm like
speaker-0: Honest to God, I've I've I've never noticed it until you just brought it up.
speaker-2: He is gonna message them to change it right now Before this episode airs he's gonna have the best pictures ever taken up there
speaker-1: this up immediately so he cannot take the wait off screenshot it hold on we'll we'll we'll do this and then hold anyway we'll put it in the Discord so that way ⁓ Siko has this for later and then that way he cannot perfect this might be an email in my chat
speaker-0: It's the it's the double shit and the fucking Botox look, isn't it? That really brings it up.
speaker-2: It's the microphone as well, man. What the hell was that? It's like call centers.
speaker-0: Them a doctor. I was on a desk. Nothing good happens on the analyst. You think cool, you look a lot more intense.
speaker-2: My casting is just superior, man.
speaker-1: All right, you rail. We're we we are all in agreement that North America we're just hoping to get out of stage one, possibly stage two.
speaker-2: We're we're hidden behind it.
speaker-0: Possibly stage two. Don't set expectations too high. Stage two has legacy in it, and there's some tough motherfuckers.
speaker-1: Yeah, I don't wanna
speaker-2: Realism.
speaker-1: Can we actually be less realistic? We need delusion. Maybe that's where it has to start. To make them a little more confident, we need to start being absolutely batshit insane. No, so that way we manage. Alright, all right. Grab drop a 1.25 rating in stage one and two, and they will qualify for stage three, and they will beat Falcons and then lose before playoffs.
speaker-2: Hypnotism.
speaker-0: You'll back you up, whatever you say. That is at Flom on Twitter.
speaker-2: I'm calling it M-A-D-A-Z-
speaker-1: All right, but that's crazy.
speaker-2: Mad versus liquid in a 2-2 game only one North American team makes it out and
speaker-1: Sh it'll be ⁓ A D. I'll take ⁓ A D on that.
speaker-0: Is this where everything's decided? Is it which team makes it out of stage one? If liquid
speaker-1: North America. Yeah, wait no way. ⁓ That's right.
speaker-2: Not Jason you you highlighted something at start of the show today And you said not all teams will be able to win a major or be competitive at a major and that's just reality that we all have to live in right sure you said that in regards to the stickers I think that's the reality we have to live in with North American teams and so we look at the majors an overarching tournament and we a smaller tournament from within a regional pride battle in stage one of the major
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah, we'll see you in Las Vegas. We can lose now. This is actually gonna be scary. We're
speaker-2: This is a-
speaker-0: Good ones or are they bad ones?
speaker-1: Well you can look at the you guys ⁓ wait, you guys haven't taken a glance yet? ⁓ wait, you guys have been busy. You guys are like casting all this stuff now, it's kinda cool. You can see the predicted VRS. It's not really accurate because it's a little it's a little bold. Let me see. We're September.
speaker-0: When do you have
speaker-2: Now we got legacy legacy you're gonna win this event bro legacy going
speaker-1: It's Legacy Fury technically. ⁓
speaker-0: You might want to extend that invite to legacy right now before you know, before they win the major and
speaker-1: Well they probably decline either way, so it wouldn't really matter. Damn it. Yeah, so no no, listen, it's based on this and then when I when I send out the invites, and then lag is in there, but I think pa well no passion disintegrated. So it'd be like the teams would be Wildcard, ⁓ eighty, Liquid Voka, Energy, Lag, and then Legacy Fury, but most likely probably pay and ⁓ IBR, but still a really Yeah, that's that's what it looked like.
speaker-2: ⁓ Anyway, it'll be a fun good time
speaker-1: We can lose that now too. We could lose that now too, and that's kinda my fault, but I ⁓ well how did you guys
speaker-2: That is how it is moving on swiftly from North America to the transition of China as we go over there We have got two tournaments that I'm to talk about in China one with CAC just went on we talked a little bit about that But they just announced a new event coming up in China during the player break ⁓ It's it's interesting and look at phase are be there. They're also gonna be there It's called XSE Pro League 2026 the only talent they've announced is James Bank so far so he will be there ⁓ Shit, but it's during the player break. It's a 1 million dollar Chinese land And the teams that are going are legacy eyeballers nip Betboom nemesis 9z alliance and face so phase really do need to pick up a lot of points So ⁓ they have no break they are going during the player break in the middle of july to guangzhou china to play in this tournament so ⁓ that's I guess it's nice like but I think there was a discussion online about like We no longer are going to respect the player break. Like the VRS has forced teams to, if you don't perform this season, you've got like, you've got summer school basically if you underperform.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, the player break no longer exists the way it used to, for sure. Like that's not even that's not even a thing in anyone's mind. Those events are gonna pop up whether you like ⁓ to or not, and at some point the teams are gonna go and then that whole like, you know, we all agree to take these months off is out the window and you just get the whole fucking year to figure out how you wanna rock and roll.
speaker-1: I respected the player break.
speaker-0: I respected the player break too. I just it's just gone. It's gone now. Rest in peace.
speaker-2: That's a that but that's weird because another a torno organizer we work with a couple of times Jason Fisher ⁓ they Canceled a bunch of their events now the public reasoning Was that because they ran it during the player breaks? They didn't get the best teams that they wanted for their and their investors were unhappy But yeah now it's actually kind of a unique Selling point to be a new torno organizers like we run our events in the middle for all the teams that disappoint And so I think it's a good way to actually get in, because how are you going to compete with Blast and ESL and PGL for the spots in the regular season? You're just not. So this is actually such a great time for these new tournaments to come up during the player break, because the teams need it and also the organizers need it. So I think if you can pull it off and get the sponsor money for an event of that size, like a million dollars in the player break, great.
speaker-1: I think it's fine. I th because though it'll it'll self regulate itself anyway. The top teams will still be going to the they'll already have their invites secured and it allows people to kinda go in and out. And you'll you'll get to see the teams that, you know, fumbled like FaZe get to play more and you get to see if they're actually progressing or doing anything. Yeah, no, it's it's that I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like more counter strikes a bad thing to me. I am curious though, back to the the major a little bit. Do you guys have any team that doesn't have to win like on your radar right now that you think people it just like you think that'll exceed expectations, either your own or how people feel publicly, like fe like a dark horse basically to be cliche, but you know, just it doesn't have to be somebody that'll like make the run as much as just somebody that you think will exceed expectation.
speaker-2: Bat boom.
speaker-1: You wanna say G two again, Moses?
speaker-0: ⁓ I mean I I guess I fucking could. I think that checks all right.
speaker-1: Well I'm not trying I'm not I'm not trying to put it for you. You already riding that wave. Like I don't know.
speaker-0: I'll take it off.
speaker-2: I think for me, think it's probably gonna be Bat Boom. They're starting early in the major. It's all the way to stage one. I think they're the favorites to go through there three zero with Gamer Legion. ⁓ So I think they're gonna be quite comfortable through stage one and I think they can do. I think they'll get through stage two as well and the teams they they've lost to in Atlanta for Navi and legacy They beat vitality as well in the group stages I think they've been doing great work online in the lead-up to this event and the only worry I have is just how can the inconsistency sometimes of these players? Like these Russian players can be so good with their ceiling is so high but they can fall so low so quickly But if they can somehow keep up the momentum they made in Atlanta I actually really do think that BetBoom can be a surprising team because they're starting nice and early in the tournaments. You're to have a good amount of lead up and warm up and you'll be there for a couple of weeks before the other teams. There's always one surprising Russian team at these events at the majors. So, last time was ParaVision. think this time it'll be it'll be BetBoom. For me, I think they're going to do pretty well.
speaker-1: You feel like Gamer Legion might outperform them though? How do you feel like I feel like Gamer Legion is very interesting.
speaker-0: Yeah, it'd be one I'd point to. I was going to except I just didn't know the feeling of them just making the final in Atlanta. You know? Like that kind of like takes away somewhat like the dark horse factor to it. But I still I still don't have great
speaker-2: Still has to continue.
speaker-0: like expectations of him, so I guess it it fits in pretty well. I mean, I think that's a that's a team that I'm now gonna be putting in stage two, where before I would have had the conversation, but after watching them in Atlanta, I'm like, yeah, that team can handle pretty much anything stage one's gonna throw at him. I was gonna say big, just because I believe the the blame F factor, ⁓ you know, as a as a player can get you through stage one. He's gonna be such an influential voice ⁓ force inside the server and you can really feel him. And you know, I I don't think anyone has any real expectations of what big's gonna look like or what they can do. So I think in some sense even like making it deep into stage two for them is kinda like, Okay, that's kinda cool, you know?
speaker-1: Yeah. I d you know and I was just thinking about all this. I was just going through the teams, like, man, we don't what the hell do we do with Mao's like Mongols and like Aurora right now? Like is there is it roster changes? Is it is it roster change? You just like
speaker-0: They're just there. They just exist at the moment.
speaker-1: Mao's was supposed to be the team that could actually run with vitality. Mongols was so exciting and Cobrazer isn't bad, but like it's not Senzu and then Aurora just always feels like they're
speaker-0: Mongols is that team that is just like happy to be at the major, except they're like, Yeah, we're just happy to be like a top eight team in the world. Like they're just that good that they just get to kind of change the rules of that whole equation. Like but they don't I I don't know. I the I the question with them is always gonna be, are they boot camping before the major? 'Cause they've skipped so many of them before events. And that's why I just don't talk about ⁓ because I'm like it just feels like they're they're content with being a top eight team, which is fine. ⁓ the Miles thing is just so disorganized and so weird that ⁓ there's nothing really to take away from it. Let's see what happens. I don't think exertion as IGL is a long term solution. so I don't I don't really know. I th I'm actually kinda scared that if this major goes poorly for Maus, like that might just like break up like some semblance of this core. I don't know. I don't know what Exertion
speaker-1: Yeah, Broolin's coming back.
speaker-2: It's fraggin though, it's kinda crazy.
speaker-0: I think that's gonna drop off though. I don't think that's gonna last. You know, I s I mean ⁓ certainly not at the cliff he was in Astana, which was incredible and I don't want to take anything away from that. Still an a an amazing performance, but I really think that's gonna drop off just because as an IGL and a playmaker he's gonna call himself around himself during this honeymoon phase. Like all the timings for the team are his timings that he wants personally, so there's gonna be a jump up. Didn't expect that much of a jump up, but I just don't don't see that lasting. And I don't see how him as the IGL is gonna outlast Navi, Blade, and ⁓ and Alexe, or Kerrigan, Zonic, Nico on Falcons, or Apex, X Taz, Mezi on Vitality, you know, like there's not really a structure there that I think can contend with any of the other teams. And Aurora They're they're Aurora.
speaker-2: You have to
speaker-1: I know it's it's crazy, right? I don't even know what to say anymore. Like it's like they were right there. We were all talking about how they gotta win a trophy or it's like a failure of a season and then like it's like a failure. Yeah, and then
speaker-2: Always like this they start really strong then they fizzle out towards the end of the season. They'll be back. Let's start next season
speaker-0: This one feels different with Aurora just because it feels like when that's happened in the past or at least the past couple of years since they've like been probably at their peak, the changes have always been like one player. You know, let's drop this guy and bring this guy in. You know, let's drop Joda and bring Soulfly in. It feels like the next change they make has to be something like a little bit more drastic.
speaker-2: Well, they have to get rid of Madger and that but the problem is like I feel like you need to go in a new direction in that and that sense in it But like who do you pick up like who in game leads?
speaker-0: Unfortunately for Aurora, they're the classic example of why every other team in the world has found a way to go international over the years is just because you don't have the pool of players. Like you say they asked to drop Major, and I'm like, yeah, I guess in that angle, like I guess that makes sense, but you're fucked if you do that. You know, like I for me, I look at it more and I say, probably the probably the easier of the two to find someone in Turkey if you're gonna stick with the Turkish lineup would be to replace Antars.
speaker-1: I absolutely agree with you.
speaker-0: Which is a crazy crazy thing to say out loud for the first time. But the more you say it out loud, the easier it gets because he is a really good player and he's got the Zantara's peak and he's got the brand and he's a huge engine and a huge matter of production. But ⁓ like at some level like it ⁓ it's easier to replace that skill than it is to replace like the experience and leadership and s strategy.
speaker-2: But is it like... close to Zantara's? if you... Zantara's is what makes them... elite.
speaker-0: Yeah, but I think whichever way you go, you're taking a big risk. Are you gonna cut out the brain or the fucking muscle of of the
speaker-2: I think Woxic is the player that has potential to leave the team. How many teams are looking for good offer?
speaker-0: Yep.
speaker-1: Like 'cause the international side of it, yeah.
speaker-2: Yeah, so I think that's thing you've got to think about. Shout out to L-
speaker-1: Shout out like everybody that's the top five. ⁓
speaker-2: I think on it, I guess that transitions me to what I've been thinking about lately. And it's been high pecs. Like if he can keep that up, dude, like these last two.
speaker-0: Your player? Is this your player? This is gonna be your ⁓
speaker-2: Yeah Last two events Fort Worth into Atlanta Hypex was flashy. He was last second clutching. He had some confidence ⁓ He plays like a really fun off it to watch and and I really like it and I just hope that it's not just a flash in the pan Which I it probably will be but I'm really hoping like if he could be a good operative face
speaker-1: This is virus.
speaker-0: Dream Dinko, you took us down this
speaker-1: He went too realistic.
speaker-2: Dream but I'm trying to sell you I'm to make sure you know it's not a dream and it's impossible reality right we're gonna consider the positives and the negatives and trying to be a responsible Salesman right here. You've got phase have tell you what you need. You got Faze on one hand, failed to make the major, they lost her big. A big. This is Jason's team to watch at the Cologne Major. Big.
speaker-0: That's ⁓ putting some words in my mouth, but it will allow it for the
speaker-1: No no no I'm ⁓ valid ⁓ overruled that way he's correct. Continue.
speaker-2: Yes, indeed. Jason's team to watch big. Now, Broky is... We remember all the glory days, the moments, but we also remember what we've seen from Broky the last few years. It's been shocking. It has been terrible. In fact, it has been depressing to watch Broky because he's had moments...
speaker-0: Pitch a phase hype X.
speaker-1: I think so. Well let him go. Let ⁓ go.
speaker-0: Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, go
speaker-2: Yes. So, what you love about Broky are those glimpses of potential, those highlight moments. You think of clips of old, it's Broky running through smokes, pulling off the unthinkable clutch at the right moment to keep phasing games and tournaments, right? That's what we all think about. And we see little bits of it still on face, but not enough. But what we've seen at the last couple of events is this young Polish man inside of Gamer Legion who has pulled off the best moments, the most memorable moments of Atlanta. Name a single moment that wasn't Hypex. All right. that you remember, apart from Navi when lifting the trophy. Hypex was the clutch factor. He was the exciting player. You got the overpass clutches, last second towards heaven. Him coming out on Anubis, straight through dark, last second through the fire, nine seconds on the clock, quickscopes the guy on platform, runs after the guy at B main on Anubis, gets him in the last second before the timer goes down. That's the kind of stuff we loved about Broky, and that's the stuff that Hypex has been pulling off, event after event, and by event after event I do mean... Fort Worth and Atlanta. you know, if he does that one more time here, I would absolutely love to see him in a FaZe jersey. I think he'd be a nice little replacement for Broky. ⁓ And I think that could be really fun. It could be a gamble shot in the dark. Or, or he could choose the red pill FaZe or the blue pill in Team Liquid and you could replace a crappy Polish AWPer in ultimate and put in Hypex a Polish AWPer with a British accent and a big old green gun and highlight plays. And I think that could be a great option to move forward for the future.
speaker-1: Bravo bravo. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. Get your bad opera out and get your mediocre opera here today. It's time to upgrade.
speaker-0: He brought it home. It's a two for one special.
speaker-2: ⁓ I hope Hypex turns out to be like the god of...
speaker-1: Yeah, and what he's not, Jason, you gotta put Dinko back together 'cause it's gonna be his Cousta moment. It's gonna be tough.
speaker-0: We'll yeah, we'll get through that. I I I lasted it. I got through it.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-2: Well, you know what? In Jason's team to watch, Grix was meant to be the awp or the prodigy, but he was not the chosen one, in fact. Grix. We'll wait and see how he performs.
speaker-0: All roads lead to big all
speaker-1: Roads lead to big. Alright, and on that I think we leave it there. I think this is good. I think we've yapped enough today. All roads lead to big and we can wrap it there. I don't think there's anything else to add for this. I think I think I think in general though, I think ⁓ I am happy that you know Estana and Atlanta leading into the major kinda for a moment felt like what are we doing? And you know, when we talked about it, I was like You know, it kinda sucks because we're we're you know, the VRS doesn't matter as much. But it the fact that Vitality lost and then you had ⁓ not there was two tournaments simultaneously. We got to kind of see the best of the rest. We got to kind of see those one, two, three, and now also CAC as well. Like we got to kinda see like what's it all about. Like it kinda leads nicely into the majors, is what I'm trying to say. Also, I think it switched up your mic on you, Moses, 'cause you put up your You look great.
speaker-2: ⁓ yeah.
speaker-1: ⁓ he hit it. He you really got him excited about the highest
speaker-2: Before we leave what what whoops go are we rocking today, man? How we do?
speaker-1: ⁓ I'm still calibrating. I just got it, but I have been above ⁓ let's see, I got ⁓ eighty-six percent on my sleep and eighty-four percent recovery. But it's still calibrating. I'm getting there. It's sick though, because I can just put all my lifts in there, but yeah, wait, you can see you can see eighty-six percent today, dude.
speaker-2: That's not Yeah, that's not bad at all. I'm sure that will get messed up with these hours coming up in the major, but you
speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, and then kid after FML, so like that'll that'll only go crazier. So yeah. That's why I wanted to get a baseline before my life. Yeah, yeah, this is what it was, so I know what I have to like strive to get back towards, or otherwise it's cooked. Okay, so the I I just got the ping, so I gotta make sure that he said to shout out the podcast name and its members only on YouTube and should be on Spotify and Apple.
speaker-2: This is what my normal life was like. Yeah. All right.
speaker-1: Podcast sometime soon and Moses is back. Perfect. And the the podcast name is NQ, just like Jason trying to get back in here. And this was inspired by my forty minute wait times in face it queues. Holy fucking shit. That is where this came from. So it like NQ like, yeah, there we go. So that's the NQ podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we'll get some cool brand and we'll make it look nice. And it's abbreviation IQ, something we lack a lot of around here, but it's all right, 'cause we make up for it in our great looks. Like
speaker-2: Okay.
speaker-0: And we're gonna lose way more as time goes on.
speaker-1: Absolutely. Especially the more we talk about North America, it will continue to dissolve and I think we leave it there.
