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exists, that we're all like you know, that we're still allowed to watch it in some sense. 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:32.079 Yeah, they haven't started movie burnings yet. 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:33.040 Oh boy, yeah. 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:33.600 Too soon. 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:34.240 Yeah. 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:34.800 Yeah. 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:35.680 Yeah, John. 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:36.560 That we know of. 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:37.279 Yeah. 00:05:37.519 --> 00:06:01.519 Uh that is that is something that has uh entertained uh uh me in a possibly very dark way over the last uh number of years is how aware of uh smaller governmental things and people uh I have had to be over the last 10 years uh that that I never had to track or or be aware of before that. 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:07.600 I know Network has been referenced and I've seen clips over the years, and I've always meant to watch it. 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:17.040 Uh and I knew that it was about making the news profitable and that sin, as it were, and how uh it has affected everything since. 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:19.600 But I hadn't uh seen it until this past week. 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:26.399 So I'm really excited that I I did see it, and it is one of those it it settles. 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:32.240 It's like one of those things where like there are so many movies that you watch and it's like bubblegum, it kind of goes in and out. 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.120 You enjoy it, but and I was like, oh, I don't remember what happened. 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:40.959 Uh or there are those that are so dark and heavy that they just oh, I'm depressed. 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:50.160 And this is one of those that just I don't know, it sits with you and it's like it's gonna hang out in the back of uh my head for a while and kind of haunt me. 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:50.720 Oh yeah. 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:59.519 And uh in a good way, because it makes you question things and it makes you think about things on taking things uh at more than face value. 00:06:59.920 --> 00:07:10.879 No, and even the other elements of the script too, I I think are so amazing, like the love story itself is this disconnected fantasy for both of these characters. 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:11.279 Yes. 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:28.240 And so I I think that again, from every angle, each character is doing or representing this idea that what we consume uh on our day-to-day life is just becoming more and more and more for entertainment purpose only. 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:32.319 Yeah, it is like we must cure boredom with entertainment. 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:32.800 Yes. 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:44.079 And I think that um that the love story itself did a good job with that too, because you've got the middle-aged man going through the you know, the crisis, uh the midlife crisis. 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:47.120 I I feel like it's more of a later stage crisis, though. 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:48.639 I think he's in his late 50s. 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:49.120 Yes. 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:52.560 And then you have uh Faye Dunaway, who unreal in this movie. 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:54.319 Oh god, she crushes it. 00:07:54.639 --> 00:08:06.959 Diana Christensen is just this, she's the new generation, she's ice cold, she does not understand this human connectivity, and that's already in 1976. 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:08.160 He's writing this character. 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:11.360 And again, it's before everything happened. 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:26.480 And so it's it's very interesting now to come at it having been a young, uh, a young person through the major changes of the internet and the 24-hour news cycle and all those things, and then seeing it from the other end, right? 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:36.080 It was like he was he was 10 to 25 years uh before it all happened, and now we're 25 years roughly after a lot of the changes. 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:37.120 Oh my gosh, yes. 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:49.759 And so, like right now is the perfect time to to think about and analyze this movie because we really are like just as far uh away from the thing than they were on the other side. 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:56.240 This first became fascinating to me when I stumbled across this documentary called Best of Enemies. 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:59.519 Oh, yes, with Gore Vidal and Buckley. 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:01.200 Yep William Buckley Buckley. 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:10.879 And it's these uh if you get it, if you haven't seen it, I I rec highly recommend it's the debates leading up to the 1968 presidential election. 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:25.679 And it's really it's where you see the game of back and forth uh mudslinging starting to happen, but it was so captivating because it was so intellectual compared to where we have it now. 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:34.320 But that time frame where you have like a war being broadcast on television, you're watching Vietnam. 00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:38.559 So you have an audience that has like has that in their face. 00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:49.039 Because I was thinking, oh, okay, so this has gotta be like, you know, 1976, that broadcast that was like changed how politics was covered really happens in 68. 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:53.759 So then maybe it's around that time that the news becomes this entertainment thing. 00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:56.080 So I started looking to see if I was correct. 00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:56.480 Okay. 00:09:56.639 --> 00:10:16.159 But what I did come across was the news started to become longer on television, and in 1963, they moved it to 30 minutes and it got a wider audience and everything and became more profitable after Kennedy's assassination, which makes sense. 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:23.759 And that of course immediately makes me think oh, the 24-hour news cycle really hits home after 9-11. 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:38.639 The fact that 24-hour news cycles need to fill the space that is not keeping you informed about something horrible that just

happened, they then have to fill that space with making you afraid of things that you have no reason to be afraid of. 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:40.639 Escalators can kill news at 11. 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:43.200 Yeah, is it are alligators in your toilet? 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:43.919 Uh yeah. 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:47.200 We we should not be on a 24-hour news cycle. 00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:52.000 Fact check me on it, but I'm pretty sure it started in 1986, 10 years after this. 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:52.399 Okay. 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:59.759 Because I'm pretty sure it was Ted Turner who did CNN, and that's who kind of ushered in the 24-hour news cycle. 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:00.000 Right. 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:18.879 And then by the 90s, you had Murdoch and Fox News, and then with the rise of the internet and just mass information, we had the 90s that that we all, you know, grew up in, which like OJ Simpson through John Bene Ramsey and Monica Lewinsky. 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:19.279 Yep. 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:21.679 And that's what I remember about the 90s. 00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:22.960 Just sensationalization. 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:27.440 Yeah, when Trisha, you you're talking about watching the Vietnam War unfold on TV. 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:43.440 Something I do vaguely remember uh you know, the Gulf War being on TV and going into the room, and my parents were paying attention to whatever was going on, and and and I knew it was a war, but I I didn't knew nothing else, you know. 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:51.200 Like I was too young to understand the I guess almost like fact versus fiction uh element of it. 00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:59.440 It was just like this is a show where where there's really no story, and they just talk at you and it's very depressing. 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:01.919 Like that's all I knew at that time. 00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:05.759 How many of us got to watch the challenger explode in our school? 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:13.360 Our teachers are sitting there wheeling it a television into the classroom being like, hey, look at this oh shit, wheel it out. 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:16.480 We're gonna pivot to like all these other things now. 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:17.840 It's like, wait, what? 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:19.759 Did we just see a bunch of people die? 00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:21.279 Like, what the fuck just happened? 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:24.639 I'm I'm I'm all for sensationalizing, you know, space. 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:25.440 That's kind of cool. 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:26.879 Yeah, we agree. 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:34.000 No, but if you want to hear like something heartbreaking, find a recording of uh the Hindenburg. 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:38.240 Um they were reporting it live as it was landing because it was historic. 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:38.720 I haven't. 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:41.039 And all of a sudden it goes up. 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:46.080 And the to the reporter's credit, as he's watching it happen, he is relaying it

in real time. 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.480 And you can hear how he is crying through it. 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:53.840 And it's like, and then for a moment, it's like you're there. 00:12:54.000 --> 00:13:04.240 And you imagine at the time, everybody's there as they're listening and sharing this moment together, where before that it had been like you hear about it weeks later, right? 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:12.000 That's the power of having things like that happen on television, is suddenly everybody's sharing this moment together. 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:12.480 Yep. 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:17.360 And to a degree that has been the internet, which is the blessing and the curse that is. 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:17.919 Yeah. 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:19.679 Wow, we went to Hindenburg. 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:20.080 Sorry. 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:20.799 Shist. 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:22.480 We went dark, guys. 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:23.120 We went dark. 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:26.879 To be fair, this this film kind of helps you go there. 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:32.000 Uh I pulled up uh William Holden's monologue to uh Faye Dunaway. 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:40.480 The writing of this will probably linger with me for for for years to come because like you know, these some of these speeches right. 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:47.279 And we can go into that because I really want to go into that because I have other writers that come to mind when I heard that when I watch this film. 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:49.519 The statement that he makes is you need me. 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:53.840 You need me badly because I'm your last contact with human reality. 00:13:54.240 --> 00:14:03.519 I love you, but our painful decaying love is the only thing between you and the shrieking nothingness you live the rest of the day. 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:05.360 It's too late, Diana. 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:09.120 There's nothing left in you that I can live with. 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:11.919 You're just one of the humanoids. 00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:15.279 If I stay with you, I'll be destroyed. 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:20.799 I'll be destroyed like everything you and the institution of television touch is destroyed. 00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:23.679 You're television incarnate, Diana. 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:27.759 You're indifferent to suffering, insensitive to joy. 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:32.399 All of your life is reduced to the common rubble of banality. 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:38.480 War, murder, death, all are the same to you as bottles of beer. 00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:42.000 And the daily business of life is a corrupt comedy. 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:48.240 You even shatter the sensation of time and space into split seconds and instant replays. 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:50.240 Your madness, Diana. 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:55.519 Vurulent madness, and everything you touch dies with you, but not me. 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:59.360 Not as long as I feel pleasure and pain and love. 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:05.759 It is so rich with subtext and and and just beauty. 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:12.000 Yeah, and and then right before he leaves, he describes their affair as if it was an episode. 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:12.639 And next week. 00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:13.360 Oh, yes. 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:20.480 A wayward husband comes to his senses, returns to his wife, with whom he has established a long and sustaining love. 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:24.799 Heartless young woman left alone in her Arctic desolation. 00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:31.279 Music up with a swell, final commercial, and here a few scenes from next week's show. 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:34.080 That speech right there, I'm taken to two places. 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.279 One, Mankowitz, because all about Eve. 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:40.240 It has that, you know, we are theater incarnate. 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:40.480 Yeah. 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:44.559 We must describe all of this as, you know, because life is a play. 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:50.000 Um, and and then also delirious elderly men exit stage left. 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:54.960 Like there's this point where it's just right in between the two. 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:57.600 It's like a little fourth wall there. 00:15:57.679 --> 00:15:59.039 And I I love that. 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:00.080 Cold deer. 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:01.440 Where do you want the cold deer? 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:03.600 No cold beer, it's a typo. 00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:07.120 If you haven't seen that movie, enjoy that. 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:08.480 Oh, John Candy. 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:10.720 John Candy and one of his best. 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:16.960 Sorkin, I think, said that like this movie really influenced him and uh his writing. 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:18.000 Yeah, that tracks. 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:25.919 And uh to me, I thought it was one of those really interesting things whose network is so it's just an ugly side of television, right? 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:33.519 And and that uh that inspired the guy who wrote newsroom, which is such a hopeful, like this is what it should be. 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:36.080 Well, it's Aaron Sorkin, like idealism. 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:38.559 If only the world worked this way, right? 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:41.600 Yeah, Patty Chievsky was much darker. 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:44.960 It's but that's that's why I I mean I love both of those writers. 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:49.919 Yeah and uh one is very positive and one is is not. 00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:57.679 I will I also think that it is very interesting uh to see the screenwriters that come from theater. 00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:58.559 Yes. 00:16:58.799 --> 00:16:59.200 Thank you. 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:15.359 You know, it reminds me a little bit, not not the same, but a little bit of uh Martin McDonough, um, who maybe is a little bit more polarizing, but I I've enjoyed most of his movies in Bruges, Banshees of Anishurin. 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:32.880 So the thing that I you know see from

Chaevsky script, uh that that is reminiscent obviously of other uh playwrights who then go into films is is that the characters just go, they talk so much and so long. 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:37.279 And uh Mike Flanagan is this way too in different genres, but yep. 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.480 Um lot a lot of monologues, a lot of monologues. 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:42.640 And uh I don't mind it. 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:56.000 I know a lot of people who who you know maybe didn't grow up watching three plays a week, but uh I I think that a movie like this just shows how incredibly that can transition into film. 00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:05.119 Watching Faye Dunaway in this movie makes me lose my breath because she's going fast and just hard at every scene. 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:09.119 And when she's done with some of her monologues, I'm like, you know, yeah. 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:09.680 Right? 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:13.200 And she channels this like little kid energy. 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:15.759 She's so excited about this. 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:29.599 This is her chance, and it's not for power and glory and wealth, and yeah, that you know, moving up the ranks is important to her, but it's more about like this is the passion, and William Holden's character is like her idol, her childhood idol. 00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:39.680 Like we get we have this this like romantic notion of of that um from uh her youth, and then she outgrows him essentially, I guess. 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:44.880 She is of the time, whereas he is of the the job. 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:48.480 Well, and and that's why she idealized him. 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:57.839 He is incarnate what this job she she wants is, but she sees where it can head, and he doesn't want to go there. 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:04.000 Yeah, he he understands what it should be for the security and safety of all of us. 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:23.359 As a screenwriter, I'd love to know what Nick thinks, because there's like this cross between like if they all have these great pieces of vita chew, if they all have these great monologues and these great scenes, it the risks them all sounding like the same person, right? 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:30.160 Having the same voice, but then at the same time, if done right, maybe it's just the world that they live in. 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:31.920 How do you feel about that? 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:46.240 I think it's a a testament to Chaevsky knowing what he's talking about, because every character has such a specific and different point on the theme, on what he's talking about. 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:54.480 So you've got Holden over here, you've got Dunaway over here, you've got the president who at the beginning is like, we're not doing this. 00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:58.880 And then he has then he has the scene at the um at the junk table. 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:01.759 Yeah, he's like, We're not, we're not doing this. 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:08.720 And then the and then Robert

Duvall's like, well, you can resign in the morning if you want, and then he stops and he's like, I'll sit back down. 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:22.799 You know, um, and so every single character has their you know their integrity, their the thing that they value on full display, and then we see them contradict that. 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:23.440 Yes. 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:26.640 Um, but each one of those things are a little bit different. 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:31.440 Even um the the woman who is from the communist party. 00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:32.000 Yes. 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:48.640 Yes, she's like, she's like, oh, we're gonna reach all these people, and her expectation and her point of view on what media is, but then halfway through her using media for her benefit, it just becomes about the bottom line. 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:50.480 Yep, he's not taking my shares. 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:50.880 Yeah, right. 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:58.079 The communist with the her learn is like the communist party won't see a penny of these profits until syndication. 00:20:58.240 --> 00:20:58.400 Yes. 00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:03.119 And it's like, wait, I thought you were trying to, you know, I didn't think it was about the money for you. 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:03.359 Yes. 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:20.160 And so you see you get to see all of these characters who have different worldviews, who have different backgrounds, all using this one thing for their own benefit, and that's where you see their differences, but then they all end up in the same place. 00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:38.880 Nick, you were you were talking about Wesley Addy, uh, who plays uh Nielsen Cheney, and there's a point where he is all, you know, righteous and and and whatnot, but he's the one who specifically says, like, we're talking about murder, like, you know, if if we do this, we can't be like found out. 00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:45.839 And it like that was the moment where he specifically has lost, like he, you know, the bottom has fallen out for him. 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:57.119 Yeah, and then the uh the scene at the end is so amazing because all of their passion for everything, it just nobody moves, nobody talks more than a whisper. 00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:57.359 Yep. 00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.759 And it's like it's just matter of fact, oh, yeah. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.839 So uh business as usual. 00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:02.720 What are we doing tomorrow? 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:04.079 Yeah, we're gonna do an assassination. 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:05.519 Okay, let's do an assassination. 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:06.000 Yep. 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:06.880 On live TV. 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:07.920 Yeah, on live TV. 00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:08.400 Yep. 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.039 And it's it's wild. 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:11.920 It it's wild. 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:24.880 It feels like satire because it should be, but at the same time, you start to wonder what happens in some of these boardrooms, which leaves it to not be satirical anymore. 00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:32.960 Anyway, we're gonna take a few moments to fill our glasses and get ready to imbibe more after this. 00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:45.200 The Blue Whiskey Independent Film Festival exhibits short and feature-length motion pictures that utilize story elements in a new and exciting way. 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:53.440 Our official selections are a carefully assembled blend of imaginative, sophisticated, and full-bodied stories. 00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:56.240 This is what our name represents. 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:15.440 Filmmakers can expect an intimate festival experience where their personal story is valued as much as the one projected on the big screen. 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:36.160 Tricia Leggett and Michael Newens, as well as our special guest, Nick Cardiff. 00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:44.000 Enjoying this podcast, please subscribe or follow us on your favorite podcast providers to get new episodes as soon as we release them. 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:48.640 Rate and leave us a review to help our show reach that larger audience. 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:54.240 And you can also follow Imbibe Cinema on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, and Letterboxd. 00:23:54.640 --> 00:24:10.640 We want to hear your thoughts on Network for those who might have been alive, or for those who, like Nick, uh watched it uh after not have previously I love it when John goes off script on this. 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:13.519 I don't it gets real, real interesting. 00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:18.480 And this is the danger of imbibing too much during imbibe cinema. 00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:22.400 Well, that that literally is the script yeah, continue. 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:24.720 As the script says, I was supposed to imbibe. 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:25.279 Okay. 00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:26.480 Back to the script. 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:27.519 Go back to the script. 00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:28.640 Oh, back to the script. 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:29.759 Let him go. 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:30.720 Just let him go. 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:32.079 Let the man cook. 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:48.319 Look for the link in our show notes to send us a text or leave us a voicemail on things that you think we should have talked about or things you think we missed, or or uh films you think we need to uh make a cocktail and imbibe with next. 00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:51.759 Uh we'll make some time after the break in our next episode. 00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:53.680 We let you cook and you burnt. 00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:54.079 Nope. 00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:54.400 Yep. 00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:57.839 Well played. 00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:02.000 Uh we'll make some time after the break in our next episode to discuss. 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:02.559 All right. 00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:14.079 So um I I I know, Michael, you uh before we had not not before we had started recording, but before before we started the actual uh uh cast, I guess you could say. 00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:15.119

The podcast. 00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:15.599 Yes. 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:16.799 No, I I call it the cast. 00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:22.640 Yes, but it's confusing when there's a cast involved and they all actor is not an acting cast. 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.200 It is uh the cast is in the podcast. 00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:29.599 But but is the the uh verb of casting I regardless. 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:31.359 I know you're trying to make it the thing. 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:32.960 Next stop, trying to make cast happen. 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:35.680 Damn it. 00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:41.759 So Michael, you had mentioned that uh, you know, I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore. 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:46.319 You had seen it, you feel about 20 years previous. 00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:50.880 Yeah, I feel like I feel like I I've been seeing this. 00:25:51.039 --> 00:26:12.480 Okay, maybe 20 was an exaggeration, but um I know it's been definitely longer than a decade that I've been seeing this creep up in response to you know things that are things that are going on in the world, decisions that are being made that that uh you know that that the mass majority doesn't agree with. 00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:13.200 I don't know. 00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:23.519 I just find it interesting that it that it constantly floats to the top in the social media world, especially, it just gets this um very similar response. 00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:25.279 I see it pretty regularly. 00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:28.480 Yeah, it's something that I mean it's it fits for me though. 00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:33.839 It's it's definitely not outside my personalized algorithm. 00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:34.720 Algorithm. 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:37.519 Our corporate overlords. 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:46.559 But yeah, I mean I I I've seen it uh a lot, and it's also been um spoofed. 00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:51.920 It has apparently been done in UHF, Critical Role, The Simpsons, and Family Guy. 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:53.680 I was gonna say The Simpsons, I was preparing. 00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:57.839 Real World Echoes? 00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:00.000 What the fuck is real world echoes? 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:01.599 Oh, John learned something new. 00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:03.680 The scene itself is incredible. 00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:04.720 Oh my god, yes. 00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:10.799 The way that they they shot it, the way that he did all of those scenes as a live studio audience. 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:25.200 Sidney Lamette came from uh live TV, and so he wanted to film it like that, and so they got uh the audience in and did it as a live, all of those things as live episodes. 00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:31.200 And um, that specific scene they did one and a half takes. 00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:32.000 Right? 00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:44.880 They did the whole scene from start to finish, and then Sidney Lamette immediately said, Okay, let's start again, to the dismay of uh uh Peter Finch. 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:46.240 Yes, Peter Finch, yep. 00:27:46.400 --> 00:28:03.279 And so then Peter Finch goes back into it, and Lamette did that because he wanted the beginning to come in with all of that exhaustion and all of that uh like almost psychosis. 00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:12.480 And so what you see in the movie is the first half of the scene is take two, and then the second is take one. 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:14.319 That's really clever. 00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:22.319 But the reason that it's only that half is because halfway through take two, Peter Finch stopped and went, I can't, I can't go on. 00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:22.799 Yeah. 00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:27.119 Well he had a he had heart problems, and didn't even Lamette did not know about that. 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:29.440 But yeah, so he had him start again. 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:34.960 He went through, yeah, he went through half of it again and then cut it himself. 00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:37.599 Uh and then Sidney Lamette was like, It's okay, we got it. 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:38.240 Yeah, he's crazy. 00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:39.759 He just wanted that first. 00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:49.519 Peter Finch won the Academy Award for Best Actor, and he was the first to uh win it uh and not have made it to the Academy Awards. 00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:50.880 He passed away shortly before. 00:28:51.119 --> 00:29:04.559 Oh but he really, really, really wanted the role, and uh he wasn't the first consideration as far as I remember reading that um Sydney was concerned about his Australian accident. 00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:05.359 Accident. 00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:09.359 Now I'm sounding like you drink I know, too much accent. 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:15.680 And so he had to he recorded himself reading the like a newspaper in an American accent. 00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:23.279 He's he told Sydney, he told Sydney to send him recordings of Walter Cronkite and I forget who else. 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:29.599 Um, but he said, give me two weeks and I'll send you a recording of an American of a perfect American accent, and then he did. 00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:30.799 And so they hired him. 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:31.519 It's amazing. 00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:32.160 It's incredible. 00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:35.839 It was like the movie itself, it's enraging. 00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:51.039 There are many emotions that that um that it brings up, at least in me, but I it's hard almost to call it like an emotional movie because the void of emotion is like the point and the void of music. 00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:53.359 There is it is so quiet. 00:29:53.680 --> 00:30:06.720 And so for me, one of the really one of the the moments that I actually feel that the human emotion, like I'm trying to explain like what I mean by like emotional, like it like it gets me mad, it gets me all those things. 00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:08.400 I'm in awe of the performances. 00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:15.119 Yes, but like the love story, I'm not like moved by the love story, I'm like

kind of watching it unfold. 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:23.119 But the one moment, maybe there's two, maybe the end that we already talked about with holding the that monologue to Fade Dunaway. 00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:33.839 But the the main moment that I get emotional, like on a human level, is the is this speech and the I'm mad as L speech. 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:40.079 And it for as many times as I've seen it, I always find something new in it. 00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:46.160 There's something that he says, you know, I'll I'll I'll connect to a different sentence, you know, each time. 00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:54.640 There's something very cathartic about seeing a man say those words and then immediately seeing it have an effect. 00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:54.960 Yeah. 00:30:55.119 --> 00:31:10.240 And I think it's partly cathartic for all of the anger that we all have, but it's also um inspiring to see it, even in this fictional world, to see it immediately have an effect because that's what we all want. 00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:10.720 Yes. 00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:23.680 It's like if I am so whatever the emotion is, if if I'm so happy that I'm that I have to speak, if I'm so angry that I have to speak in any given moment, all I want is for it to have an effect. 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:24.000 Yep. 00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:31.359 And to be able to see in in this movie immediately people shouting from the windows, listening to him. 00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:34.960 And then, you know, you see the the corporate suits. 00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:36.880 Yeah, you know, it's great. 00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:53.359 It's uh like from them, but then also you see the people, and you see the people screaming and and standing up and um just just taking power, even if it's again the whole point of this movie is nothing we consume is real. 00:31:53.440 --> 00:32:04.000 Yeah, nothing we do in from the point of view of this movie really matters all that much if we're headed towards this global conglomerate that rules us all. 00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:04.799 Yeah. 00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:10.160 But it's still inspiring to see people get up and yell out their windows. 00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:14.400 Yeah, so it's the that's the that's the moment of the movie that that gets me. 00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:26.400 And the fact that they're all separated, everybody's in their own bubble, everybody's in their own window, everybody's living their own life, and they're all different types of people, and they're all like it it reached everybody. 00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:29.200 And to have have that is very cool. 00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:31.200 I I forgot actually there's three. 00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:37.519 Um, we talked about Holden and and the monologue that he has with Faye Dunaway. 00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:39.039 Yeah, it's a great closer. 00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:46.640 It's the motif, as you said, about him uh using her language against her, you know, the scenes from next week's show. 00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:48.720 Yeah, he does that a couple times throughout. 00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:49.599 That's amazing. 00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:52.880 But the other one is uh Beatrice Strait. 00:32:53.279 --> 00:33:04.319 Uh she won an Oscar for the best supporting for the least amount of screen time in history for five minutes and one second, I think, or five minutes and forty seconds. 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:04.960 Yep, yeah. 00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:08.960 And and that moment, that scene, she had a few scenes. 00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:10.480 She worked for one week. 00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:15.920 She had the but the one monologue is what uh catapulted her above everybody else. 00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:24.960 And that monologue is just insane, insane to watch from an an actor point of view, from a writing point of view, from an audience point of view. 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:29.279 Any way you analyze that moment, she crushes it. 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:42.000 That year at the Oscars, like she's up against uh Jane Alexander in All the President's Men, Jody Foster and Taxi Driver, Piper Laurie and Carrie, and Lee Grant in Voyage of the Damned. 00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:50.000 And not often do I know all the movies in like I mean, but all those movies are movies I know. 00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:53.279 Um I might not have seen them all, but they're ones that I know. 00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:56.720 So that's a that's a jam-packed group. 00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:59.359 And to be only on screen for five minutes. 00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:00.160 Damn. 00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:01.519 Five minutes. 00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:06.160 And and Ned Beatty was on screen for less than six as well, and he got nominated. 00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:10.159 It's his monologue, all these monologues are are insane. 00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:32.719 For uh Beatrice Strait, uh, there's a funny uh interview that I saw where Sidney Lamette was talking about how Patty Chievski was always on set because he was also a producer, he had a say in everything, and they loved working like that because Sydney knew that Patty like had the comedy and knew the comedy much more than uh Sydney. 00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:39.840 And so he was happy to have him around whenever there was a moment dialogue-wise, Patty was there to kind of steer the ship. 00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:46.559 There's one moment where uh Howard Beale walks in the rain, he's in pajamas, and he walks past a guard and he says hello. 00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:48.800 And the the guard says a very hello, Mr. 00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:49.440 Beale. 00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:52.320 Um, and he goes, he says an insane thing. 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:58.559 I forget what the line is, um, but he says an insane thing like I'm I'm the prophet or something crazy like that. 00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:00.960 And the line is just like, sure thing, Mr. 00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:01.599 Beal. 00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:03.599 And that's that's the response. 00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:07.440 And Sidney was directing

him to be like eye rolly, sure thing, Mr. 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:07.920 Beal. 00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:10.079 And Patty Trievsky was like, No, no, no, dude. 00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:12.000 It's that's that's you're killing the laugh. 00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:12.800 Yeah, that's not it. 00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.599 Yet he has to not even notice that anything's wrong. 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:20.320 And so then you have the line read that you have in the movie, which is just, yep, hello, Mr. 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:20.719 Beal. 00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:21.440 Sure thing, Mr. 00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:21.920 Beal. 00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.679 Very just very and it's so funny. 00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:32.719 The moment with Beatrice, Patty Tievsky comes in because uh Sidney Lamette had done take after take after take. 00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:38.960 He'd done five, six takes, and she's she's getting bigger and bigger as actors tend to do. 00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:51.760 And he was doing something where he was trying to kind of like get it out, let it let it get it out of her system so then she could settle down and and find the you know the the the moment that he wanted uh her to have. 00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:56.000 And Patty Chevsky comes up and is like, this she's doing way too much, she's doing way too much. 00:35:56.079 --> 00:36:00.480 And he goes, Listen, Patty, you know about comedy, but I know about divorce. 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:02.400 I thought it was very funny. 00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:06.880 Well done and funny. 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:09.519 Um gets the message across. 00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:10.559 Yeah. 00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:18.880 Uh there are so many things that I think, because I know John has pointed out this is not a contemporary film. 00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:24.960 Um, that there are things that of the era I think that I'm missing, right? 00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:35.360 That I'm sure there are little nods to things that people would have gotten because it was very relevant at the time, but I can still from this distance see uh enough of it to understand. 00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:46.000 But I find it it it when I after seeing it, it made me think, oh, all these contemporary critical satires and whatnot that we see in the moment, you're like, damn. 00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:52.000 And then it's like, well, 50 years from now, people be like, um, okay, I get it, but what am I missing? 00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:57.119 So yeah, so there was a distance to me on that with the dark comedy. 00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:01.519 I feel like part and partly maybe because we were watching it alone. 00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:37.280 I think part of it too comes back to what we were talking about about being on the other side of it, because that this is one of my favorite things about watching old movies, is that you have to put yourself in that time 20 years before the internet, you know, in the 70s, and uh just all the things that were happening in the world when those people in 1976

sat down in this in this big movie theater or uh to to watch this movie, the idea that the world was run by one business was absurd. 00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:54.079 The idea that these suits on uh whatever avenue in in New York would so nonchalantly casually put together an assassination on live TV was absurd. 00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:58.320 So that dark comedy makes people laugh. 00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:00.880 When you see something that's absurd, you laugh. 00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:11.599 But we're watching it believing 100% that it's a drama, like it's this is just what they do in those in those high rises, you know, those buildings. 00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:17.519 And so I think that's a little bit of of the the disconnect too, because I also feel that. 00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:26.480 Uh, but I think that it's I think that's the the major disconnect is is that for us being on this side of it, it's just not absurd. 00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:28.320 It's not an absurd dark comedy. 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:30.480 Because it's not just that too plausible. 00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:38.079 All the all the movies since then that criticize uh television, everything's gotten more and more jaded. 00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:43.519 And I'm wondering how much of it's like a snowball influence of like they're influenced by network and network, you know, blah blah blah. 00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:51.280 And and so then watching this for me, having been influenced by things that were probably influenced by network. 00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:52.960 My brain's gonna sit on that. 00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:54.079 I'm just gonna marry. 00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:08.800 I think that network's influence is immeasurable in uh in so many people's work. 00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:17.039 Um, but also I think the effects of, as we were talking about earlier, instant information and constant information. 00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:23.519 I think that does a lot of the heavy lifting in uh getting people, you know, jaded and and all of that. 00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:35.280 Because we see the effect, we see the rise in all what whatever negative thing you want to talk about in society, shootings or corruption or like whatever. 00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:38.480 You know, we see so much of that all the time. 00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:49.920 It's it's another it's another example of how this movie knew what it was saying and has been proven right over and over again. 00:39:50.239 --> 00:40:06.079 The way that the way that that Sidney Lamette shot it was he told the DP, I forget the DP's name, uh, he told him that he wanted the camera throughout the movie to become more and more corrupt. 00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:09.440 So by the end of the movie, it looks like a Ford commercial. 00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:16.480 If you look at the lighting throughout this movie, the beginning is dark. 00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:21.679 They're on the they're they're telling the story, they're getting drunk on the on the street, and they're in the bar. 00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:22.880 It is dark. 00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:25.679 It's a there's almost no extra light. 00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:29.440 It's you see them, you know, uh, but it's natural light. 00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:29.920 Yeah. 00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:39.599 The further you get into Howard's madness, the more you see, like when he's laying in bed, it's like a very crisp line. 00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:41.760 It's very aggressive, you know. 00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:48.559 When he's in the when he's in the meeting with uh Ned Beatty, it's it's very umir almost. 00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:55.440 Yeah, it's so aggressively lit, and it becomes unnatural when you're in the the assassination plot scene. 00:40:55.519 --> 00:41:04.880 Yeah, it's just like you just have these like pools of light and it looks fake, and even the show is like flatter. 00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:09.519 The thesis of this movie being that television corrupts. 00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:10.079 Yep. 00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:10.800 Right? 00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:14.880 And so I'm watching it on a TV, we're watching it on a screen. 00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:17.760 So by the end of it, we're corrupted. 00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:24.079 The thing we're watching is corrupted, and then by association we by consumption, we are corrupted. 00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:32.639 And and I just find I find it so profound on so many different levels and layers. 00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:37.760 I don't know, it's it's it's a movie that again, just I I think about a lot. 00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:47.920 Nick, tell our our our lovely listeners uh uh what they can uh see you on, hear you on, read you on, watch you on, etc. 00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:56.239 Well, right now I am just in process for three features, uh getting financing together for those. 00:41:56.559 --> 00:41:58.960 That's what I'm spending most of my time on right now. 00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:02.239 But I'm I also have uh two pilots. 00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:07.679 Uh one is just out in the world, uh getting read, and we'll see what happens. 00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:14.079 Uh and the other one, uh, I'm shooting a proof of concept sometime before the end of this year. 00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:19.920 Uh and that's a most of the stuff I do, I'm like a horror guy, you know, horror fantasy. 00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:26.000 And uh this is the the one that I'm shooting is a uh proof of concept for a comedy, which I'm very excited about. 00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:33.679 Well, we greatly appreciate all of our listeners for choosing this podcast, supporting Independent Films and the Blue Whiskey Independent Film Festival. 00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:34.800 I'm Jonathan C. 00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.599 Leggett, and thanks for imbibing with us. 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:38.559 Cheers.