Network

WEBVTT
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I'm pretty much just going from coffee to bourbon these days.
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Oh, that was college for me.
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Right?
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It was beer o'clock.
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Yes.
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And I had a teacher who pulled me aside after that because we were having a conversation about it and everybody laughed.
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And he was like, please, please drink water though.
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Please drink water.
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Can you just can you just I can't not say that.
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Say that.
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Greetings andor salutations, and welcome to Imbibe Cinema.
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The Imbibe Cinema podcast is brought to you by the Blue Whiskey Independent Film Festival, otherwise known as Buiff.
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I'm Jonathan C.
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Leggett, along with my co-host, Trisha Leggett, as well as our producer, Michael Noens.
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And we are also pleased to welcome a very special guest, Nick Cardiff.
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In this episode, we're going to be discussing the 1976 Dark Comedy Network.
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The cocktail we are imbibing is called Ratings War, which consists of bourbon, uh, Angostora bitters, a sugar cube, an orange peel, and cherries.
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Look for the episode recap.
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Uh link in our show notes where you'll also find a written summary of our discussion, along with a picture and the ingredients needed to make your own ratings war at home.
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All right, so Nick, what is it about this particular film that that made you uh so giddy about joining us for a podcast?
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Uh this is just one of my favorite movies of all time.
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I think it is exactly what art is supposed to be.
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And I I think that they the fact that it's been 50 years and it is still uh just as relevant today, if not more so, than it was in 1976, uh to me is just which which is crazy because uh on the surface it maybe shouldn't be like a favorite of mine.
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It's not uh it's not necessarily the type of movie that is like that I care to watch like you know, executives in boardrooms and things like that.
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Talking about numbers and um uh what do they call them in the movie?
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Uh points?
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Share, you know, fifty share, you know, and all that kind of stuff.
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Yeah.
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Not not something I really care about ultimately, and yet every single scene in this uh movie is is captivating.
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Do you remember the first time you saw it?
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I've seen it a handful of times now.
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I think the first time I saw it was probably I think I was living in Chicago, so I think it must have been 2011, 2012.
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It's just one that I revisit every couple years.
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I hadn't seen it in a couple years, so I thought this was a good time to revisit.
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Yes, uh very poignant, very of the times.
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I know uh uh at least from from my uh viewing, this was my first.
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It is very fascinating to me to to to watch a film, and as as love you lovingly pointed out, it's fifty years later.
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Uh and and it it it still reigns true.
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I mean, the the the writing on this is uh absolutely fascinating.
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Uh and I know uh uh Nick, you from a uh writing and screenplay standpoint, is there anything that jumps out to you that you feel really encompasses what made this film so amazing?
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Oh yeah, from a script point of view, the characters.
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Every character is ultimately corrupted by the thing that they love.
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Yep.
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And the whole movie is really about the business takeover of media.
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Correct.
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And how media is sensationalized and thus like becomes fake.
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It becomes for entertainment and not knowledge.
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And I just feel like every character embodies that in their own way.
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And by the time you get to the end, the movie itself is fake.
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The movie itself has been corrupted.
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And it just it it really just spoke to me from the first time that I watched it, which was early on in in my life where I was like politically uh active, or at least where I was a participant in, you know, paying attention to the world and to politics and to those kind of things, and it really stuck with me.
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And then as I have uh become more knowledgeable and uh as I participate more in that process, it just I mean the end of the movie, it's the one of the main monologues is about how the Arabs are taking are taking control of the media by buying all of these American yes businesses, and and right now with the Times Warner and uh the Paramount merger, and you got 45 billion from the Saudis coming in.
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It's it's just it was it was a very uh profound and foretelling script.
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And to to live in a time after it's all happened and to watch something where it hadn't happened yet, uh to me is just like it's it's very depressing on one hand, but it's also a privilege on the other that this thing even still exists, that we're all like you know, that we're still allowed to watch it in some sense.
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Yeah, they haven't started movie burnings yet.
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Oh boy, yeah.
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Too soon.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, John.
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That we know of.
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Yeah.
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Uh that is that is something that has uh entertained uh uh me in a possibly very dark way over the last uh number of years is how aware of uh smaller governmental things and people uh I have had to be over the last 10 years uh that that I never had to track or or be aware of before that.
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I know Network has been referenced and I've seen clips over the years, and I've always meant to watch it.
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Uh and I knew that it was about making the news profitable and that sin, as it were, and how uh it has affected everything since.
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But I hadn't uh seen it until this past week.
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So I'm really excited that I I did see it, and it is one of those it it settles.
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It's like one of those things where like there are so many movies that you watch and it's like bubblegum, it kind of goes in and out.
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You enjoy it, but and I was like, oh, I don't remember what happened.
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Uh or there are those that are so dark and heavy that they just oh, I'm depressed.
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And this is one of those that just I don't know, it sits with you and it's like it's gonna hang out in the back of uh my head for a while and kind of haunt me.
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Oh yeah.
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And uh in a good way, because it makes you question things and it makes you think about things on taking things uh at more than face value.
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No, and even the other elements of the script too, I I think are so amazing, like the love story itself is this disconnected fantasy for both of these characters.
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Yes.
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And so I I think that again, from every angle, each character is doing or representing this idea that what we consume uh on our day-to-day life is just becoming more and more and more for entertainment purpose only.
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Yeah, it is like we must cure boredom with entertainment.
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Yes.
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And I think that um that the love story itself did a good job with that too, because you've got the middle-aged man going through the you know, the crisis, uh the midlife crisis.
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I I feel like it's more of a later stage crisis, though.
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I think he's in his late 50s.
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Yes.
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And then you have uh Faye Dunaway, who unreal in this movie.
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Oh god, she crushes it.
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Diana Christensen is just this, she's the new generation, she's ice cold, she does not understand this human connectivity, and that's already in 1976.
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He's writing this character.
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And again, it's before everything happened.
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And so it's it's very interesting now to come at it having been a young, uh, a young person through the major changes of the internet and the 24-hour news cycle and all those things, and then seeing it from the other end, right?
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It was like he was he was 10 to 25 years uh before it all happened, and now we're 25 years roughly after a lot of the changes.
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Oh my gosh, yes.
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And so, like right now is the perfect time to to think about and analyze this movie because we really are like just as far uh away from the thing than they were on the other side.
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This first became fascinating to me when I stumbled across this documentary called Best of Enemies.
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Oh, yes, with Gore Vidal and Buckley.
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Yep William Buckley Buckley.
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And it's these uh if you get it, if you haven't seen it, I I rec highly recommend it's the debates leading up to the 1968 presidential election.
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And it's really it's where you see the game of back and forth uh mudslinging starting to happen, but it was so captivating because it was so intellectual compared to where we have it now.
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But that time frame where you have like a war being broadcast on television, you're watching Vietnam.
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So you have an audience that has like has that in their face.
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Because I was thinking, oh, okay, so this has gotta be like, you know, 1976, that broadcast that was like changed how politics was covered really happens in 68.
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So then maybe it's around that time that the news becomes this entertainment thing.
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So I started looking to see if I was correct.
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Okay.
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But what I did come across was the news started to become longer on television, and in 1963, they moved it to 30 minutes and it got a wider audience and everything and became more profitable after Kennedy's assassination, which makes sense.
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And that of course immediately makes me think oh, the 24-hour news cycle really hits home after 9-11.
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The fact that 24-hour news cycles need to fill the space that is not keeping you informed about something horrible that just happened, they then have to fill that space with making you afraid of things that you have no reason to be afraid of.
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Escalators can kill news at 11.
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Yeah, is it are alligators in your toilet?
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Uh yeah.
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We we should not be on a 24-hour news cycle.
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Fact check me on it, but I'm pretty sure it started in 1986, 10 years after this.
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Okay.
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Because I'm pretty sure it was Ted Turner who did CNN, and that's who kind of ushered in the 24-hour news cycle.
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Right.
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And then by the 90s, you had Murdoch and Fox News, and then with the rise of the internet and just mass information, we had the 90s that that we all, you know, grew up in, which like OJ Simpson through John Bene Ramsey and Monica Lewinsky.
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Yep.
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And that's what I remember about the 90s.
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Just sensationalization.
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Yeah, when Trisha, you you're talking about watching the Vietnam War unfold on TV.
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Something I do vaguely remember uh you know, the Gulf War being on TV and going into the room, and my parents were paying attention to whatever was going on, and and and I knew it was a war, but I I didn't knew nothing else, you know.
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Like I was too young to understand the I guess almost like fact versus fiction uh element of it.
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It was just like this is a show where where there's really no story, and they just talk at you and it's very depressing.
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Like that's all I knew at that time.
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How many of us got to watch the challenger explode in our school?
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Our teachers are sitting there wheeling it a television into the classroom being like, hey, look at this oh shit, wheel it out.
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We're gonna pivot to like all these other things now.
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It's like, wait, what?
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Did we just see a bunch of people die?
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Like, what the fuck just happened?
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I'm I'm I'm all for sensationalizing, you know, space.
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That's kind of cool.
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Yeah, we agree.
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No, but if you want to hear like something heartbreaking, find a recording of uh the Hindenburg.
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Um they were reporting it live as it was landing because it was historic.
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I haven't.
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And all of a sudden it goes up.
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And the to the reporter's credit, as he's watching it happen, he is relaying it in real time.
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And you can hear how he is crying through it.
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And it's like, and then for a moment, it's like you're there.
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And you imagine at the time, everybody's there as they're listening and sharing this moment together, where before that it had been like you hear about it weeks later, right?
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That's the power of having things like that happen on television, is suddenly everybody's sharing this moment together.
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Yep.
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And to a degree that has been the internet, which is the blessing and the curse that is.
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Yeah.
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Wow, we went to Hindenburg.
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Sorry.
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Shist.
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We went dark, guys.
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We went dark.
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To be fair, this this film kind of helps you go there.
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Uh I pulled up uh William Holden's monologue to uh Faye Dunaway.
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The writing of this will probably linger with me for for for years to come because like you know, these some of these speeches right.
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And we can go into that because I really want to go into that because I have other writers that come to mind when I heard that when I watch this film.
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The statement that he makes is you need me.
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You need me badly because I'm your last contact with human reality.
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I love you, but our painful decaying love is the only thing between you and the shrieking nothingness you live the rest of the day.
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It's too late, Diana.
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There's nothing left in you that I can live with.
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You're just one of the humanoids.
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If I stay with you, I'll be destroyed.
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I'll be destroyed like everything you and the institution of television touch is destroyed.
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You're television incarnate, Diana.
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You're indifferent to suffering, insensitive to joy.
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All of your life is reduced to the common rubble of banality.
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War, murder, death, all are the same to you as bottles of beer.
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And the daily business of life is a corrupt comedy.
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You even shatter the sensation of time and space into split seconds and instant replays.
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Your madness, Diana.
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Vurulent madness, and everything you touch dies with you, but not me.
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Not as long as I feel pleasure and pain and love.
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It is so rich with subtext and and and just beauty.
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Yeah, and and then right before he leaves, he describes their affair as if it was an episode.
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And next week.
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Oh, yes.
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A wayward husband comes to his senses, returns to his wife, with whom he has established a long and sustaining love.
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Heartless young woman left alone in her Arctic desolation.
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Music up with a swell, final commercial, and here a few scenes from next week's show.
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That speech right there, I'm taken to two places.
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One, Mankowitz, because all about Eve.
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It has that, you know, we are theater incarnate.
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Yeah.
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We must describe all of this as, you know, because life is a play.
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Um, and and then also delirious elderly men exit stage left.
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Like there's this point where it's just right in between the two.
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It's like a little fourth wall there.
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And I I love that.
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Cold deer.
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Where do you want the cold deer?
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No cold beer, it's a typo.
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If you haven't seen that movie, enjoy that.
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Oh, John Candy.
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John Candy and one of his best.
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Sorkin, I think, said that like this movie really influenced him and uh his writing.
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Yeah, that tracks.
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And uh to me, I thought it was one of those really interesting things whose network is so it's just an ugly side of television, right?
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And and that uh that inspired the guy who wrote newsroom, which is such a hopeful, like this is what it should be.
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Well, it's Aaron Sorkin, like idealism.
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If only the world worked this way, right?
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Yeah, Patty Chievsky was much darker.
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It's but that's that's why I I mean I love both of those writers.
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Yeah and uh one is very positive and one is is not.
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I will I also think that it is very interesting uh to see the screenwriters that come from theater.
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Yes.
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Thank you.
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You know, it reminds me a little bit, not not the same, but a little bit of uh Martin McDonough, um, who maybe is a little bit more polarizing, but I I've enjoyed most of his movies in Bruges, Banshees of Anishurin.
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So the thing that I you know see from Chaevsky script, uh that that is reminiscent obviously of other uh playwrights who then go into films is is that the characters just go, they talk so much and so long.
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And uh Mike Flanagan is this way too in different genres, but yep.
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Um lot a lot of monologues, a lot of monologues.
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And uh I don't mind it.
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I know a lot of people who who you know maybe didn't grow up watching three plays a week, but uh I I think that a movie like this just shows how incredibly that can transition into film.
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Watching Faye Dunaway in this movie makes me lose my breath because she's going fast and just hard at every scene.
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And when she's done with some of her monologues, I'm like, you know, yeah.
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Right?
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And she channels this like little kid energy.
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She's so excited about this.
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This is her chance, and it's not for power and glory and wealth, and yeah, that you know, moving up the ranks is important to her, but it's more about like this is the passion, and William Holden's character is like her idol, her childhood idol.
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Like we get we have this this like romantic notion of of that um from uh her youth, and then she outgrows him essentially, I guess.
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She is of the time, whereas he is of the the job.
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Well, and and that's why she idealized him.
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He is incarnate what this job she she wants is, but she sees where it can head, and he doesn't want to go there.
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Yeah, he he understands what it should be for the security and safety of all of us.
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As a screenwriter, I'd love to know what Nick thinks, because there's like this cross between like if they all have these great pieces of vita chew, if they all have these great monologues and these great scenes, it the risks them all sounding like the same person, right?
00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:30.160
Having the same voice, but then at the same time, if done right, maybe it's just the world that they live in.
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:31.920
How do you feel about that?
00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:46.240
I think it's a a testament to Chaevsky knowing what he's talking about, because every character has such a specific and different point on the theme, on what he's talking about.
00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:54.480
So you've got Holden over here, you've got Dunaway over here, you've got the president who at the beginning is like, we're not doing this.
00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:58.880
And then he has then he has the scene at the um at the junk table.
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:01.759
Yeah, he's like, We're not, we're not doing this.
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:08.720
And then the and then Robert Duvall's like, well, you can resign in the morning if you want, and then he stops and he's like, I'll sit back down.
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:22.799
You know, um, and so every single character has their you know their integrity, their the thing that they value on full display, and then we see them contradict that.
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:23.440
Yes.
00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:26.640
Um, but each one of those things are a little bit different.
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:31.440
Even um the the woman who is from the communist party.
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:32.000
Yes.
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:48.640
Yes, she's like, she's like, oh, we're gonna reach all these people, and her expectation and her point of view on what media is, but then halfway through her using media for her benefit, it just becomes about the bottom line.
00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:50.480
Yep, he's not taking my shares.
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:50.880
Yeah, right.
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:58.079
The communist with the her learn is like the communist party won't see a penny of these profits until syndication.
00:20:58.240 --> 00:20:58.400
Yes.
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:03.119
And it's like, wait, I thought you were trying to, you know, I didn't think it was about the money for you.
00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:03.359
Yes.
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:20.160
And so you see you get to see all of these characters who have different worldviews, who have different backgrounds, all using this one thing for their own benefit, and that's where you see their differences, but then they all end up in the same place.
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:38.880
Nick, you were you were talking about Wesley Addy, uh, who plays uh Nielsen Cheney, and there's a point where he is all, you know, righteous and and and whatnot, but he's the one who specifically says, like, we're talking about murder, like, you know, if if we do this, we can't be like found out.
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:45.839
And it like that was the moment where he specifically has lost, like he, you know, the bottom has fallen out for him.
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:57.119
Yeah, and then the uh the scene at the end is so amazing because all of their passion for everything, it just nobody moves, nobody talks more than a whisper.
00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:57.359
Yep.
00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.759
And it's like it's just matter of fact, oh, yeah.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.839
So uh business as usual.
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:02.720
What are we doing tomorrow?
00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:04.079
Yeah, we're gonna do an assassination.
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:05.519
Okay, let's do an assassination.
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:06.000
Yep.
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:06.880
On live TV.
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:07.920
Yeah, on live TV.
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:08.400
Yep.
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.039
And it's it's wild.
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:11.920
It it's wild.
00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:24.880
It feels like satire because it should be, but at the same time, you start to wonder what happens in some of these boardrooms, which leaves it to not be satirical anymore.
00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:32.960
Anyway, we're gonna take a few moments to fill our glasses and get ready to imbibe more after this.
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:45.200
The Blue Whiskey Independent Film Festival exhibits short and feature-length motion pictures that utilize story elements in a new and exciting way.
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:53.440
Our official selections are a carefully assembled blend of imaginative, sophisticated, and full-bodied stories.
00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:56.240
This is what our name represents.
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:15.440
Filmmakers can expect an intimate festival experience where their personal story is valued as much as the one projected on the big screen.
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:36.160
Tricia Leggett and Michael Newens, as well as our special guest, Nick Cardiff.
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:44.000
Enjoying this podcast, please subscribe or follow us on your favorite podcast providers to get new episodes as soon as we release them.
00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:48.640
Rate and leave us a review to help our show reach that larger audience.
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:54.240
And you can also follow Imbibe Cinema on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, and Letterboxd.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:24:10.640
We want to hear your thoughts on Network for those who might have been alive, or for those who, like Nick, uh watched it uh after not have previously I love it when John goes off script on this.
00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:13.519
I don't it gets real, real interesting.
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:18.480
And this is the danger of imbibing too much during imbibe cinema.
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:22.400
Well, that that literally is the script yeah, continue.
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:24.720
As the script says, I was supposed to imbibe.
00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:25.279
Okay.
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:26.480
Back to the script.
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:27.519
Go back to the script.
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:28.640
Oh, back to the script.
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:29.759
Let him go.
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:30.720
Just let him go.
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:32.079
Let the man cook.
00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:48.319
Look for the link in our show notes to send us a text or leave us a voicemail on things that you think we should have talked about or things you think we missed, or or uh films you think we need to uh make a cocktail and imbibe with next.
00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:51.759
Uh we'll make some time after the break in our next episode.
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:53.680
We let you cook and you burnt.
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:54.079
Nope.
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:54.400
Yep.
00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:57.839
Well played.
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:02.000
Uh we'll make some time after the break in our next episode to discuss.
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:02.559
All right.
00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:14.079
So um I I I know, Michael, you uh before we had not not before we had started recording, but before before we started the actual uh uh cast, I guess you could say.
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:15.119
The podcast.
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:15.599
Yes.
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:16.799
No, I I call it the cast.
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:22.640
Yes, but it's confusing when there's a cast involved and they all actor is not an acting cast.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.200
It is uh the cast is in the podcast.
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:29.599
But but is the the uh verb of casting I regardless.
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:31.359
I know you're trying to make it the thing.
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:32.960
Next stop, trying to make cast happen.
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:35.680
Damn it.
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:41.759
So Michael, you had mentioned that uh, you know, I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore.
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:46.319
You had seen it, you feel about 20 years previous.
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:50.880
Yeah, I feel like I feel like I I've been seeing this.
00:25:51.039 --> 00:26:12.480
Okay, maybe 20 was an exaggeration, but um I know it's been definitely longer than a decade that I've been seeing this creep up in response to you know things that are things that are going on in the world, decisions that are being made that that uh you know that that the mass majority doesn't agree with.
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:13.200
I don't know.
00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:23.519
I just find it interesting that it that it constantly floats to the top in the social media world, especially, it just gets this um very similar response.
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:25.279
I see it pretty regularly.
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:28.480
Yeah, it's something that I mean it's it fits for me though.
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:33.839
It's it's definitely not outside my personalized algorithm.
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:34.720
Algorithm.
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:37.519
Our corporate overlords.
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:46.559
But yeah, I mean I I I've seen it uh a lot, and it's also been um spoofed.
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:51.920
It has apparently been done in UHF, Critical Role, The Simpsons, and Family Guy.
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:53.680
I was gonna say The Simpsons, I was preparing.
00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:57.839
Real World Echoes?
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:00.000
What the fuck is real world echoes?
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:01.599
Oh, John learned something new.
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:03.680
The scene itself is incredible.
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:04.720
Oh my god, yes.
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:10.799
The way that they they shot it, the way that he did all of those scenes as a live studio audience.
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:25.200
Sidney Lamette came from uh live TV, and so he wanted to film it like that, and so they got uh the audience in and did it as a live, all of those things as live episodes.
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:31.200
And um, that specific scene they did one and a half takes.
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:32.000
Right?
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:44.880
They did the whole scene from start to finish, and then Sidney Lamette immediately said, Okay, let's start again, to the dismay of uh uh Peter Finch.
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:46.240
Yes, Peter Finch, yep.
00:27:46.400 --> 00:28:03.279
And so then Peter Finch goes back into it, and Lamette did that because he wanted the beginning to come in with all of that exhaustion and all of that uh like almost psychosis.
00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:12.480
And so what you see in the movie is the first half of the scene is take two, and then the second is take one.
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:14.319
That's really clever.
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:22.319
But the reason that it's only that half is because halfway through take two, Peter Finch stopped and went, I can't, I can't go on.
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:22.799
Yeah.
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:27.119
Well he had a he had heart problems, and didn't even Lamette did not know about that.
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:29.440
But yeah, so he had him start again.
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:34.960
He went through, yeah, he went through half of it again and then cut it himself.
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:37.599
Uh and then Sidney Lamette was like, It's okay, we got it.
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:38.240
Yeah, he's crazy.
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:39.759
He just wanted that first.
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:49.519
Peter Finch won the Academy Award for Best Actor, and he was the first to uh win it uh and not have made it to the Academy Awards.
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:50.880
He passed away shortly before.
00:28:51.119 --> 00:29:04.559
Oh but he really, really, really wanted the role, and uh he wasn't the first consideration as far as I remember reading that um Sydney was concerned about his Australian accident.
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:05.359
Accident.
00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:09.359
Now I'm sounding like you drink I know, too much accent.
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:15.680
And so he had to he recorded himself reading the like a newspaper in an American accent.
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:23.279
He's he told Sydney, he told Sydney to send him recordings of Walter Cronkite and I forget who else.
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:29.599
Um, but he said, give me two weeks and I'll send you a recording of an American of a perfect American accent, and then he did.
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:30.799
And so they hired him.
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:31.519
It's amazing.
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:32.160
It's incredible.
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:35.839
It was like the movie itself, it's enraging.
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:51.039
There are many emotions that that um that it brings up, at least in me, but I it's hard almost to call it like an emotional movie because the void of emotion is like the point and the void of music.
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:53.359
There is it is so quiet.
00:29:53.680 --> 00:30:06.720
And so for me, one of the really one of the the moments that I actually feel that the human emotion, like I'm trying to explain like what I mean by like emotional, like it like it gets me mad, it gets me all those things.
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:08.400
I'm in awe of the performances.
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:15.119
Yes, but like the love story, I'm not like moved by the love story, I'm like kind of watching it unfold.
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:23.119
But the one moment, maybe there's two, maybe the end that we already talked about with holding the that monologue to Fade Dunaway.
00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:33.839
But the the main moment that I get emotional, like on a human level, is the is this speech and the I'm mad as L speech.
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:40.079
And it for as many times as I've seen it, I always find something new in it.
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:46.160
There's something that he says, you know, I'll I'll I'll connect to a different sentence, you know, each time.
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:54.640
There's something very cathartic about seeing a man say those words and then immediately seeing it have an effect.
00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:54.960
Yeah.
00:30:55.119 --> 00:31:10.240
And I think it's partly cathartic for all of the anger that we all have, but it's also um inspiring to see it, even in this fictional world, to see it immediately have an effect because that's what we all want.
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:10.720
Yes.
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:23.680
It's like if I am so whatever the emotion is, if if I'm so happy that I'm that I have to speak, if I'm so angry that I have to speak in any given moment, all I want is for it to have an effect.
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:24.000
Yep.
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:31.359
And to be able to see in in this movie immediately people shouting from the windows, listening to him.
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:34.960
And then, you know, you see the the corporate suits.
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:36.880
Yeah, you know, it's great.
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:53.359
It's uh like from them, but then also you see the people, and you see the people screaming and and standing up and um just just taking power, even if it's again the whole point of this movie is nothing we consume is real.
00:31:53.440 --> 00:32:04.000
Yeah, nothing we do in from the point of view of this movie really matters all that much if we're headed towards this global conglomerate that rules us all.
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:04.799
Yeah.
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:10.160
But it's still inspiring to see people get up and yell out their windows.
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:14.400
Yeah, so it's the that's the that's the moment of the movie that that gets me.
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:26.400
And the fact that they're all separated, everybody's in their own bubble, everybody's in their own window, everybody's living their own life, and they're all different types of people, and they're all like it it reached everybody.
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:29.200
And to have have that is very cool.
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:31.200
I I forgot actually there's three.
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:37.519
Um, we talked about Holden and and the monologue that he has with Faye Dunaway.
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:39.039
Yeah, it's a great closer.
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:46.640
It's the motif, as you said, about him uh using her language against her, you know, the scenes from next week's show.
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:48.720
Yeah, he does that a couple times throughout.
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:49.599
That's amazing.
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:52.880
But the other one is uh Beatrice Strait.
00:32:53.279 --> 00:33:04.319
Uh she won an Oscar for the best supporting for the least amount of screen time in history for five minutes and one second, I think, or five minutes and forty seconds.
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:04.960
Yep, yeah.
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:08.960
And and that moment, that scene, she had a few scenes.
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:10.480
She worked for one week.
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:15.920
She had the but the one monologue is what uh catapulted her above everybody else.
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:24.960
And that monologue is just insane, insane to watch from an an actor point of view, from a writing point of view, from an audience point of view.
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:29.279
Any way you analyze that moment, she crushes it.
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:42.000
That year at the Oscars, like she's up against uh Jane Alexander in All the President's Men, Jody Foster and Taxi Driver, Piper Laurie and Carrie, and Lee Grant in Voyage of the Damned.
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:50.000
And not often do I know all the movies in like I mean, but all those movies are movies I know.
00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:53.279
Um I might not have seen them all, but they're ones that I know.
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:56.720
So that's a that's a jam-packed group.
00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:59.359
And to be only on screen for five minutes.
00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:00.160
Damn.
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:01.519
Five minutes.
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:06.160
And and Ned Beatty was on screen for less than six as well, and he got nominated.
00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:10.159
It's his monologue, all these monologues are are insane.
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:32.719
For uh Beatrice Strait, uh, there's a funny uh interview that I saw where Sidney Lamette was talking about how Patty Chievski was always on set because he was also a producer, he had a say in everything, and they loved working like that because Sydney knew that Patty like had the comedy and knew the comedy much more than uh Sydney.
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:39.840
And so he was happy to have him around whenever there was a moment dialogue-wise, Patty was there to kind of steer the ship.
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:46.559
There's one moment where uh Howard Beale walks in the rain, he's in pajamas, and he walks past a guard and he says hello.
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:48.800
And the the guard says a very hello, Mr.
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:49.440
Beale.
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:52.320
Um, and he goes, he says an insane thing.
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:58.559
I forget what the line is, um, but he says an insane thing like I'm I'm the prophet or something crazy like that.
00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:00.960
And the line is just like, sure thing, Mr.
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:01.599
Beal.
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:03.599
And that's that's the response.
00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:07.440
And Sidney was directing him to be like eye rolly, sure thing, Mr.
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:07.920
Beal.
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:10.079
And Patty Trievsky was like, No, no, no, dude.
00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:12.000
It's that's that's you're killing the laugh.
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:12.800
Yeah, that's not it.
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.599
Yet he has to not even notice that anything's wrong.
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:20.320
And so then you have the line read that you have in the movie, which is just, yep, hello, Mr.
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:20.719
Beal.
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:21.440
Sure thing, Mr.
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:21.920
Beal.
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.679
Very just very and it's so funny.
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:32.719
The moment with Beatrice, Patty Tievsky comes in because uh Sidney Lamette had done take after take after take.
00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:38.960
He'd done five, six takes, and she's she's getting bigger and bigger as actors tend to do.
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:51.760
And he was doing something where he was trying to kind of like get it out, let it let it get it out of her system so then she could settle down and and find the you know the the the moment that he wanted uh her to have.
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:56.000
And Patty Chevsky comes up and is like, this she's doing way too much, she's doing way too much.
00:35:56.079 --> 00:36:00.480
And he goes, Listen, Patty, you know about comedy, but I know about divorce.
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:02.400
I thought it was very funny.
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:06.880
Well done and funny.
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:09.519
Um gets the message across.
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:10.559
Yeah.
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:18.880
Uh there are so many things that I think, because I know John has pointed out this is not a contemporary film.
00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:24.960
Um, that there are things that of the era I think that I'm missing, right?
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:35.360
That I'm sure there are little nods to things that people would have gotten because it was very relevant at the time, but I can still from this distance see uh enough of it to understand.
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:46.000
But I find it it it when I after seeing it, it made me think, oh, all these contemporary critical satires and whatnot that we see in the moment, you're like, damn.
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:52.000
And then it's like, well, 50 years from now, people be like, um, okay, I get it, but what am I missing?
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:57.119
So yeah, so there was a distance to me on that with the dark comedy.
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:01.519
I feel like part and partly maybe because we were watching it alone.
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:37.280
I think part of it too comes back to what we were talking about about being on the other side of it, because that this is one of my favorite things about watching old movies, is that you have to put yourself in that time 20 years before the internet, you know, in the 70s, and uh just all the things that were happening in the world when those people in 1976 sat down in this in this big movie theater or uh to to watch this movie, the idea that the world was run by one business was absurd.
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:54.079
The idea that these suits on uh whatever avenue in in New York would so nonchalantly casually put together an assassination on live TV was absurd.
00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:58.320
So that dark comedy makes people laugh.
00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:00.880
When you see something that's absurd, you laugh.
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:11.599
But we're watching it believing 100% that it's a drama, like it's this is just what they do in those in those high rises, you know, those buildings.
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:17.519
And so I think that's a little bit of of the the disconnect too, because I also feel that.
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:26.480
Uh, but I think that it's I think that's the the major disconnect is is that for us being on this side of it, it's just not absurd.
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:28.320
It's not an absurd dark comedy.
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:30.480
Because it's not just that too plausible.
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:38.079
All the all the movies since then that criticize uh television, everything's gotten more and more jaded.
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:43.519
And I'm wondering how much of it's like a snowball influence of like they're influenced by network and network, you know, blah blah blah.
00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:51.280
And and so then watching this for me, having been influenced by things that were probably influenced by network.
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:52.960
My brain's gonna sit on that.
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:54.079
I'm just gonna marry.
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:08.800
I think that network's influence is immeasurable in uh in so many people's work.
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:17.039
Um, but also I think the effects of, as we were talking about earlier, instant information and constant information.
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:23.519
I think that does a lot of the heavy lifting in uh getting people, you know, jaded and and all of that.
00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:35.280
Because we see the effect, we see the rise in all what whatever negative thing you want to talk about in society, shootings or corruption or like whatever.
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:38.480
You know, we see so much of that all the time.
00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:49.920
It's it's another it's another example of how this movie knew what it was saying and has been proven right over and over again.
00:39:50.239 --> 00:40:06.079
The way that the way that that Sidney Lamette shot it was he told the DP, I forget the DP's name, uh, he told him that he wanted the camera throughout the movie to become more and more corrupt.
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:09.440
So by the end of the movie, it looks like a Ford commercial.
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:16.480
If you look at the lighting throughout this movie, the beginning is dark.
00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:21.679
They're on the they're they're telling the story, they're getting drunk on the on the street, and they're in the bar.
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:22.880
It is dark.
00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:25.679
It's a there's almost no extra light.
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:29.440
It's you see them, you know, uh, but it's natural light.
00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:29.920
Yeah.
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:39.599
The further you get into Howard's madness, the more you see, like when he's laying in bed, it's like a very crisp line.
00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:41.760
It's very aggressive, you know.
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:48.559
When he's in the when he's in the meeting with uh Ned Beatty, it's it's very umir almost.
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:55.440
Yeah, it's so aggressively lit, and it becomes unnatural when you're in the the assassination plot scene.
00:40:55.519 --> 00:41:04.880
Yeah, it's just like you just have these like pools of light and it looks fake, and even the show is like flatter.
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:09.519
The thesis of this movie being that television corrupts.
00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:10.079
Yep.
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:10.800
Right?
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:14.880
And so I'm watching it on a TV, we're watching it on a screen.
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:17.760
So by the end of it, we're corrupted.
00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:24.079
The thing we're watching is corrupted, and then by association we by consumption, we are corrupted.
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:32.639
And and I just find I find it so profound on so many different levels and layers.
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:37.760
I don't know, it's it's it's a movie that again, just I I think about a lot.
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:47.920
Nick, tell our our our lovely listeners uh uh what they can uh see you on, hear you on, read you on, watch you on, etc.
00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:56.239
Well, right now I am just in process for three features, uh getting financing together for those.
00:41:56.559 --> 00:41:58.960
That's what I'm spending most of my time on right now.
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:02.239
But I'm I also have uh two pilots.
00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:07.679
Uh one is just out in the world, uh getting read, and we'll see what happens.
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:14.079
Uh and the other one, uh, I'm shooting a proof of concept sometime before the end of this year.
00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:19.920
Uh and that's a most of the stuff I do, I'm like a horror guy, you know, horror fantasy.
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:26.000
And uh this is the the one that I'm shooting is a uh proof of concept for a comedy, which I'm very excited about.
00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:33.679
Well, we greatly appreciate all of our listeners for choosing this podcast, supporting Independent Films and the Blue Whiskey Independent Film Festival.
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:34.800
I'm Jonathan C.
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.599
Leggett, and thanks for imbibing with us.
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:38.559
Cheers.