Building Certainty

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All right.
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Welcome back to ICF San Diego's Coffee and Conversation Podcast.
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And my special guest today is Coach Pam Cabarubias.
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I just butchered your last name.
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Can you help me out and say it for the audience there?
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Cobar Rubias.
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Cobar Rubias.
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Yeah, it's beautiful.
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How are you doing today?
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I'm doing well.
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Thank you for asking.
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Well, so you will learn as we go through this podcast.
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I'm going to pick up on words.
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I think that just happens to be my gift.
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So what does well mean for you before we go anywhere?
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Well, I when I was in college, I'm pretty sure this was one of my English professors who said, you never answer your good.
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Because what does that mean?
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It's not grammatically correct.
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I mean, of course, an English professor would say that, right?
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It's not grammatically correct.
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It's an easy answer that stops you from, like it's just, it's, it's a cop-out answer.
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And so the right way to say it is you're well.
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Because well means you're healthy, you you're here, you're alive, you're good, is very surface.
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Yes.
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And so when people ask me how am I doing, I always say I'm well.
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And it throws people off many times because they don't know what to respond.
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Well, but that's beautiful the way that you said it.
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Like, because you said you're you're present, right?
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You're here.
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And I think that to me is the key there is the fact that you are present.
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Like you and I are having this, I call it a sacred moment.
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We're on this interview together, and this is special.
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It's going to be better than good.
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It's actually, I think it's going to be better than well, right?
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That's not proper English, but it's going to be much better.
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So I'm excited here to learn a little bit more about you because, first of all, in your bio, you host a podcast called Cafe con Pam.
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And I know that means coffee with Pam, right?
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Isn't it?
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That's like, so what a coincidence here.
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Like ICF, Coffee and Commissation.
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So let's before we go into my questions, how did you get started with the podcast, right?
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Because I think that's another medium that people use for experience.
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How did you get started there?
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And what drew the name?
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Well, that was 10 years ago.
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Oh, that's that.
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See, that's awesome.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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This is this is a long time coming.
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So, and even before, around 2014, 2015, maybe even 2013, to be honest, I was in corporate America, okay.
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Traveling for work.
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I was climbing the ladder.
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I was a corporate executive and I was traveling a lot.
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And at the time, I was listening to podcasts.
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I discovered podcasts.
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And this is back in the day when you had to download them on your phone.
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Yes.
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So it wasn't, you know, there was no streaming or anything like that.
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And I really loved listening to conversations.
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There were there were a few like news podcasts, there were a few solo podcasts, but mainly what I enjoyed the most was the conversations because I was traveling by myself.
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And so I felt like that was some company in some way.
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Yes.
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And all of these interviews and conversations were cool, but none of them, or very few, like few when I say like two or three, were people that look like me.
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The immigrants, the first gens, Latinas, eldest daughters, it was very like male, pale, and stale.
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You know, it was like very business.
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Yes, yeah.
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And so, and this is, I would say, before even like the true crime podcast, like this is way back when.
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And so I wondered for a long time, I'm ready to listen to a podcast of people that look like me, that sound like me, that spanglish their way through a conversation.
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Right, right.
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That grew up with her mom making tortillas and then went to college and ate hamburgers, you know?
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And I waited for years, two years, and it didn't exist.
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Nobody came up with it.
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So 2016 happens, and I get this urge one weekend to put a microphone on my vision board.
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And I went through my magazines and I found a microphone and I cut it out and I put it on my vision board.
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And two weeks later, I'm having dinner with a friend of mine who's a music producer.
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And at the end of the night, he's walking me to my car and he's like, So what's next for you?
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And I say, you know, I want to do this podcasting.
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I've been listening to them.
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I don't know what to do.
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Like, I have zero clue.
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But I bought a microphone from my retired rapper on Craigslist.
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I have the idea.
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I wanted to be around drinking coffee because I grew up in Mexico City.
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Okay.
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There's a huge culture of like, let's go get cafecito.
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Yeah.
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Have a conversation.
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And so he literally were outside of my car and he's like, so it's gonna be cafe comb, obviously.
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And I'm like, oh my gosh, of course.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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And then I said, But I'm missing one piece of the puzzle, which is editing sound.
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I can talk, I can have a conversation.
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I have the mic.
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I don't know if it's the right mic, but you know, we gotta start somewhere.
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Yes.
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But I don't know how to what to do with the audio.
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And he looked at me and he's like, you know what I do?
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Do you remember?
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He's a music producer.
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No, they and I was like, oh my gosh.
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So he became my first editor.
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And that's how Go Fuckin' Bump started.
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Here we are.
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So I I just want the listeners to really like chime in on this because I said that this was sacred, right?
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And then to listen to your story that you you mentioned about being inspired to put a picture of a microphone on your vision board.
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I'm a spiritual person, so I'm just gonna put it out there.
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You you weren't inspired, you were led, my friend, to kind of put that.
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And and but to see how all of those dots connect it once the movement.
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You do you see what I'm saying?
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You listen and it was like, whoa, let's put this here.
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And the next thing you know, okay, let me get you here, let me do this and let me do that.
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And voila, 10 years later, here we are.
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You're doing something that's quite amazing in the field.
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Ten years, right?
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I'll say more about this, but now let's go, let's go deep here.
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Because I don't I want people listening to this episode, like you said, first gen, people that are living real life.
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You you understand what I'm saying?
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That's what I'm about.
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I'm about the realness in in all that we do.
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So, what are the three or four uh life events that have shaped who you are today?
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Three or four.
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So I think frankly, starting the podcast was one.
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Yeah.
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That was a huge decision.
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Because at the time, I made a list of a hundred people I wanted to interview.
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So it's my wish list.
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I think we have like two or three left of those.
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First 100%.
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That's beautiful.
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Yeah.
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And that changed me because it got me out of my comfort zone.
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Yes.
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It changed me because I had to face rejection in so many ways.
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It changed me because I had to figure it out, literally.
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Like nobody was putting out courses and how to podcast, right?
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Like there's nothing at that time.
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Yes.
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YouTube wasn't that helpful.
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And everything was super technical.
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Right now we have tools like so many digital platforms that allow you to record podcasts.
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Back then, you literally, just like you're recording with a board, like that was the only way.
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The only way.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah.
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And so that's definitely one.
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Leaving a toxic relationship is another one.
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Leaving my corporate job is another one without a plan.
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So I always tell my clients, does I say not as I did, because I know how hard it is to do it as I did.
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Yes.
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And I think that I mean there's many more, but I think a big one is when I landed in the hospital because my heart failed or was about to fall.
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Yes.
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So I want to say more about this.
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Now, you you you identified toxic relationship, and then you go landed in the hospital.
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So there's gotta be a lot that's going on in between this, but what what made those two things kind of like allow the light to like just beam in on you and be like, okay, girl, what's going on here?
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What was it that actually did it?
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So, first it was a toxic relationship.
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So I had been with this person for a while, and it was toxic in the sense that there were a lot of like ebbs and flows.
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Like, we're together, it's fine, we're not together, it's not fine, we're together, it's fine.
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So it was a lot of like and all of this happened when I had people around me, and so it became a thing where my friends were like, We're good, like we got you, girl.
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Next time we'll be here.
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Yes, because that was the thing.
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Next time we'll be here.
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And so that I started internalizing that.
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I mean, I didn't know anything about coaching back then, it wasn't like early 20s, but I'm like, wait, why are people saying next time we'll be here?
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Next time, yeah.
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Like there was a pattern.
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And so and they were, yeah.
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I mean, the next time they were there, yeah.
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But something interesting happened that I was in the middle of an island, so I was in Hawaii, about to move my life there.
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So basically my whole apartment was there already.
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And when you talk about, I was led to put the microphone, I was led to leave this relationship.
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Okay.
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Because something like truly divine happened, and I'll give you like the cliff notes, where we're in Hawaii, and we happen to meet a couple.
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She is a Mexican girl from Monterrey, I'm a Mexican girl from Mexico City.
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We kind of like clicked, it was cool.
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I found out later that she wasn't his wife or any, like they she had a husband.
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Oh, there you go.
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Okay, yeah.
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Yeah, and so I'm like, wait, so okay, this is fascinating.
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The last night I'm there, I'm about to come back to San Diego to pick up all my stuff and then finally move there.
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We're in the kitchen, we're about to go to dinner, and the guys are upstairs getting ready, and we just happen to be by ourselves in the kitchen.
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Without prompting anything, without me saying anything, she paused and she looked at me and she said, You know, he's gonna give you a ring.
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You're gonna have his babies.
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And if you stay, you're gonna become me.
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And I don't feel anything.
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Whoa.
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And my husband is now deployed, and look at what I'm doing, and you don't need to do this.
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And then the the guys came downstairs, and I was like, What just happened?
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Yeah, like my face is right now.
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Do you know what I'm saying?
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Okay, keep going.
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Whoa, yeah, and so that happened, and like the whole night I'm thinking, like, why did this woman just like say this to me like random?
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And so we went through the night.
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The next morning, I am cleaning, and you like I found stuff.
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The point is that I found stuff.
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And what I realized is that earlier when I said my friends would say, We'll be here next time, I was in the middle of nowhere in the world where I didn't have anyone.
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Yeah, so that next time happened by myself.
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And I couldn't call this girl because she was already doing her thing.
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And so I literally paused and I said, This is your moment to make a decision.
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Are you going to become her or are you not?
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Because you now have a choice and your friends are not here to save you.
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And so I got in the shower and I cried it out, which is what I knew to do at the time.
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And literally, I asked the water in that moment to help me release whatever I needed to.
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I left the clo the house clean.
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I left for food for a week, and then he took me to the airport.
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He thought I was gonna come back.
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And on the way to the airport, I broke up with him and I thanked him, actually.
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So I wrote him a letter and I said, you know what?
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I want to thank you so much for the pain that you gave me because I would never let anyone do that to me again.
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And I chose myself.
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Oh my goodness.
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Uh you're gonna notice.
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But I did have divine divine intervention by the.
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Well, there's no doubt about that, but you're gonna notice throughout this interview, I am going to pause.
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Yes.
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Because what is being said needs no words behind it.
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And I picked up on two things.
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I call that the sacred pause.
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And you just said you paused and then you made a decision.
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So the sacred pause went into action, and then you went into action.
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And I'm gonna put you on a spot because I think you can handle this.
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You're a Latina, you could you can definitely handle this.
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I want you to speak to that listener right now that's in that relationship.
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I want you to be the other woman speaking to you, to that person right now, from a coach perspective.
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Use your coaching and just speak to them because they're gonna come to this podcast.
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I can tell you right now it's gonna happen.
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Because we were put together for a reason today, and let's utilize that time.
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The floor is yours.
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Yeah, I would say think about how important it is for you to choose yourself first.
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Because if there is a little nudge that says it's time to go, then it's time to go.
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Yes.
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After this relationship, what I learned in my current relationship with the love of my life is that relationships are easy.
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There's not one tiny bit of partnership at all.
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Yes, yes.
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And so if anyone is whoever's listening, is in a relationship that feels like work, it's time to go.
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Nothing it's forced.
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Human communication is beautiful and it's to be spacious and fun and deep.
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And yeah, there's going to be some disagreements, but not painful.
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We're not here to suffer.
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And so when another human makes you suffer, we're not plants, we can move.
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Yeah.
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And so choosing yourself is so important.
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Yeah, I love it.
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Choosing yourself.
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Now, let's go.
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So you just talked about relationship, and you made a critical decision to leave a career, right?
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So, so same point.
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Now, I will say this I didn't make that decision.
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The decision was made for me.
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I held on too long, and I will say five years too long.
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And I we can talk a little bit more about that later.
00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:31.799
But now speak to the person that's in that career, that they're getting the nudges.
00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:36.599
The nudges are screaming at them, and they're like, No, but my life is really good right now.
00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:37.640
You know what I mean?
00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:39.319
Speak to that person.
00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:50.680
Well, I think our bodies always communicate with us and they give us and so I started with getting sick.
00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:57.400
I I would work and wake up with my laptop on my chest because I fell asleep working.
00:17:57.480 --> 00:17:58.599
Yeah, you know, yeah.
00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:05.000
And eventually, and I remember my mom would always say, I would be like, Oh my gosh, I'm home sick.
00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:08.200
And she'd be like, Yeah, because your body's forcing you to rest.
00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:08.759
Yeah.
00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:10.360
Because you work too much.
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:11.560
Yeah, say that again.
00:18:11.800 --> 00:18:12.440
Say that again.
00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:13.560
Your body's forcing you.
00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:19.400
Your body forces you to slow down, take a nap, and rest it out.
00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:19.640
Yes.
00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:22.200
Because if we don't choose to do it, the body will do it.
00:18:22.360 --> 00:18:22.759
Yes.
00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:29.800
And so those were the little signals that I was getting from myself to say you're overdoing it.
00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:34.920
And I mean, I did this to myself.
00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:38.200
I also am big like on self-responsibility.
00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:41.640
I didn't listen to the nudges until it was like time.
00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:42.360
Absolutely.
00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:42.680
Yes.
00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:43.000
Yeah.
00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:45.800
And so I was working way too hard.
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:47.400
I wasn't making enough.
00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:56.440
I it was one of those things that this is why I think people in tech move so much because you can jump salaries so much faster than staying in one place.
00:18:56.600 --> 00:18:57.480
One place, yeah.
00:18:57.800 --> 00:19:03.560
And so I literally one day I was like, you know what?
00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:04.120
I'm done.
00:19:04.360 --> 00:19:04.840
I'm done.
00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:13.080
And so what I would say to the person that is getting the nudges is start listening to the nudges and start making an exit plan.
00:19:13.560 --> 00:19:27.720
Because, same as with a relationship, if if it starts feeling like it doesn't bring you joy, fulfillment, excitement, then it might be time to start planning the exit.
00:19:28.519 --> 00:19:33.160
Because also your nervous system cannot take just an abrupt ending.
00:19:33.320 --> 00:19:33.640
Yes.
00:19:33.800 --> 00:19:36.840
You know, it's so much easier to start making a plan.
00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:39.720
So that's when I say, do as I say, not as I did.
00:19:39.800 --> 00:19:42.759
Because I literally, I was like, I'm done.
00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:43.560
Too much.
00:19:43.800 --> 00:19:47.800
And then put my two weeks, and then two weeks later, I was like, oh, I guess I work for myself now.
00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:49.080
Yes, exactly.
00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:49.720
Yes.
00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:51.080
Wow.
00:19:51.160 --> 00:20:01.160
So so Coach Pam, I I sense I know what you're passionate about, but I want you to tell the listener, well, what are you passionate about?
00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:02.920
Like, what gets you?
00:20:03.080 --> 00:20:05.080
Oh, actually, let me use your word.
00:20:05.560 --> 00:20:11.080
What makes you stay in the place of being well?
00:20:12.120 --> 00:20:13.400
Okay, right?
00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:16.519
So what is it that does that for you?
00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:22.519
When women can use their voice again to create an impact.
00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:24.120
Say it again.
00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:27.960
I have three daughters, so listen, I know.
00:20:28.120 --> 00:20:29.400
Do you understand what I'm saying?
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:30.360
Say it again.
00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:31.320
Yes.
00:20:32.120 --> 00:20:48.840
I think what makes me well is to see a world where women have a space to exist, to be safe, to express themselves without consequences, to create legacies, to build wealth.
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:51.560
Because when women make money, the world gets better.
00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:52.840
It's been proven.
00:20:53.080 --> 00:20:53.400
Yes.
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.400
But in order for women to feel safe to make money, the world has to be safe.
00:20:57.720 --> 00:20:58.360
Yes.
00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:01.080
So what do we do?
00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:04.600
I mean, as a coach, how do we how do we do this?
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:07.400
How do we help women feel seen?
00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:08.840
Do you understand what I'm saying?
00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:11.240
And I mean seen in the fullness.
00:21:12.600 --> 00:21:13.480
You know what I mean?
00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:20.039
Not like covering yourself up plastic-wise, but I mean being authentic.
00:21:20.120 --> 00:21:21.480
How do we do this?
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:28.600
Well, I think I was my first client, always.
00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:29.640
There you go.
00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:37.320
And so through my own inner work, and coaching changed my life, obviously, this is why I'm a coach.
00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:42.680
I discovered that there are some programming that we go through.
00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:47.720
And I had to deprogram myself a lot.
00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:49.560
And I'm still deprogramming myself.
00:21:49.800 --> 00:21:57.160
So it's almost like, you know, when your computer gets an update, like we need to get like several updates throughout our lifetime.
00:21:57.320 --> 00:21:59.640
You know, this is not like a one scene.
00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:01.240
A one and done, right?
00:22:01.320 --> 00:22:02.279
Yes, go ahead.
00:22:02.600 --> 00:22:05.240
Like virus continue to enter.
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:10.440
And so I forgot the question.
00:22:10.600 --> 00:22:25.240
But I I started with myself, and then that's how I began developing a body of work now that is it's more of a methodology where I found the patterns that first generation Latinas grow up with.
00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:25.800
Okay.
00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:30.519
That I call them the five wounds of silence cult culture.
00:22:30.600 --> 00:22:32.600
In Spanish, it's calladita culture.
00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:33.240
Okay.
00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:39.800
And so those five wounds are inherited, passed on, programmed onto us.
00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:41.400
We grew up hearing them.
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:47.480
And when I tell people about this, I I look at it from the my own lived experience lens.
00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:48.360
Yes.
00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:51.880
Which is why I talk about first and lathines, which is who I am.
00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:52.200
Okay.
00:22:52.360 --> 00:22:54.279
And who the majority of my clients are.
00:22:54.600 --> 00:22:58.600
And when other cultures hear it, they're like, oh, we live through that too.
00:22:58.680 --> 00:22:59.160
And I'm like, yeah.
00:22:59.320 --> 00:23:01.160
I mean, it's not limited to just us.
00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:01.480
Right.
00:23:01.800 --> 00:23:03.000
But that's how I teach.
00:23:03.560 --> 00:23:03.960
No, no.
00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:06.680
I I was about to say, because now you had me.
00:23:07.560 --> 00:23:10.680
I was really about to say, so tell me what the five are.
00:23:10.840 --> 00:23:18.279
But before you do, I want to point in on the fact that you said the inner work.
00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:20.120
Right?
00:23:20.360 --> 00:23:28.440
So let's go and talk a little bit about the inner work because that's the work that lasts.
00:23:29.080 --> 00:23:31.000
That is the work that lasts, correct.
00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:36.519
So the inner work, the way that I see the inner work is reprogramming the program.
00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:37.240
Okay.
00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:45.560
So it's really tuning inward to say, what is the whisper that I often hear that tells me I cannot do it?
00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:49.640
And this is all about accepting what is.
00:23:49.800 --> 00:23:55.400
Because it's not that your grandmother would always say it, it's not about blaming externally how it got to you.
00:23:55.560 --> 00:24:03.400
It's about saying, Oh, well, because everyone in my lineage heard it, I internalized it, and therefore I'm now carrying it.
00:24:03.560 --> 00:24:05.400
Does that mean that I need to keep carrying it?
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:06.039
No.
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:09.480
Does that mean that I'm going to blame the other people for no?
00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:11.720
Because they like that's not my problem.
00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:15.640
Everyone, like your work is the inner work because you would do the inner work.
00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:19.240
And so we just catch the program.
00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:22.600
We say, oh, well, this is an inherited program.
00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:24.680
So I'm choosing to reprogram it.
00:24:24.840 --> 00:24:25.560
And that's it.
00:24:26.360 --> 00:24:26.840
It sounds easy.
00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:27.480
Isn't that easy to do?
00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:29.000
No, I no, no, no.
00:24:29.080 --> 00:24:30.440
I know it's not easy.
00:24:30.600 --> 00:24:37.400
But here's what I want to say to you because what you just defined, I call that the protective self.
00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:38.360
Yes.
00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:46.920
It's the self that we developed in order to survive all the stuff that we were in.
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:48.200
Okay.
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:50.279
This is getting awesome, y'all.
00:24:50.360 --> 00:24:52.519
I just hope y'all get excited like me.
00:24:52.840 --> 00:24:53.160
Okay.
00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:56.039
Share the five.
00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:56.840
What are the five?
00:24:57.080 --> 00:24:58.039
So the five wounds.
00:24:58.279 --> 00:24:59.560
The wound of silence.
00:24:59.800 --> 00:25:00.440
Yes.
00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:02.600
The wound of worth.
00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:03.560
Yes.
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:05.560
The wound of power.
00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:06.600
Yes.
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:08.600
The wound of commitment.
00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:10.120
Yes, yes.
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.200
And the wound of identity.
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:13.400
Yes.
00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:15.000
Oh wow.
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:16.840
Now, here's the kicker.
00:25:17.080 --> 00:25:17.720
Come on.
00:25:18.120 --> 00:25:22.200
The wounds are like toggles.
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:26.440
You can be undercompensated or overcompensated in the wounds.
00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:31.720
Because, for example, I'm Mexican.
00:25:32.120 --> 00:25:37.880
Typically, I'm not doing generalizations from the hundreds of people that I've coached.
00:25:38.120 --> 00:25:49.720
What I have noticed is that the wound of silence, for example, for me, I'm undercompensated on the wound of silence because I grew up hearing you look prettier when you're quiet.
00:25:50.600 --> 00:25:54.360
And so I tend to stay quiet.
00:25:54.600 --> 00:25:55.160
Yes.
00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:58.680
You know, I tend to just not like hold my words.
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:08.840
There are women that have like typically black women, Caribbean women, people from South, like South America, they grow up very different.
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:09.160
Yes.
00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:10.759
They're overcompensated.
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:11.560
Yes.
00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:12.920
Be louder.
00:26:13.080 --> 00:26:13.240
Yes.
00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:17.160
You can be louder because they've fought so much to be louder, right?
00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:19.240
Either way, you're not heard.
00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:22.279
That's where the wind of silence comes in.
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:23.000
Yes.
00:26:23.320 --> 00:26:25.160
Because you're either too quiet or too loud.
00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:26.680
Still the wind of silence.
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:35.080
Now, the point is not to get to the middle, the point is to find the truest version of you that's not performing.
00:26:36.360 --> 00:26:39.400
Because I can be quiet and still be powerful.
00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:43.640
Because when I open my mouth, I'm saying my truth, and then that changes the room.
00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:44.360
Yes.
00:26:44.600 --> 00:26:48.519
But I'm doing it with certainty, not with performance.
00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:49.800
Ooh.
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:52.519
Okay.
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:54.840
I caught that.
00:26:55.080 --> 00:26:55.720
I know.
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.519
With certainty, not performance.
00:26:58.840 --> 00:27:06.840
Because what you're talking about is I have been making this statement for about, well, actually since COVID.
00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:21.320
And the statement is this that we as humans have been programmed to worship our wounds and trauma and not live from who we are.
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:31.480
You know, and now it seems to me I've noticed that wounds and trauma is currency now.
00:27:33.320 --> 00:27:37.960
But not the currency that gets you to that place of search.
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:40.840
Girl, this is on fire right now.
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:41.240
Right?
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:42.600
Do you understand what I'm saying?
00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:49.320
Is it like it's this, it's it's okay, it's not the wealth that you're talking about.
00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:59.000
That's exactly so they can get wealth, but it is not the wealth that actually allows you to be who you were.
00:27:59.240 --> 00:27:59.480
Truly.
00:27:59.960 --> 00:28:01.000
Yes, exactly.
00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:02.200
Oh, correct.
00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:04.920
Oh, whoo! Come on, y'all.
00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:05.960
You gotta get this.
00:28:06.120 --> 00:28:07.960
I'm hoping you get in this.
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:15.320
Now, in this essence, I want to go somewhere, but I'm gonna focus right here because you just you said something.
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:19.080
You said coaching has changed your life.
00:28:19.320 --> 00:28:25.000
So I want you to share how the we say it in ICF, the power of coaching.
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:28.920
How has the power of coaching changed you personally?
00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:32.039
Because it allowed me to see myself.
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:43.640
I think like the other day I was talking to a client and she was like, Well, I asked my robot, you know, whatever AI tool she uses.
00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:44.200
Yeah.
00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:48.200
And it just agreed with me.
00:28:48.360 --> 00:28:48.519
Yeah.
00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:50.200
And I'm like, of course it did.
00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:52.279
Because you're paying the thing to agree with you.
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:52.680
Exactly.
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:54.840
You're not paying me to agree with you.
00:28:57.080 --> 00:29:10.440
And so the power of coaching has allowed me to see myself in the mirror in a way that I get to face the truth and the reality without any masks.
00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:17.080
And when you do that, then you can build certainty because there's no performance.
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:20.440
The stage is yours and you are the witness of it.
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:22.680
Okay, girl.
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:24.200
Repeat that again.
00:29:24.360 --> 00:29:25.720
The stage is yours.
00:29:25.800 --> 00:29:26.279
Come on.
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:26.920
You're drunk.
00:29:27.320 --> 00:29:27.960
You're in the audience.
00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:28.840
Yes.
00:29:29.240 --> 00:29:31.880
I mean the stage is yours and you witness yourself.
00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:33.960
You get to watch yourself perform.
00:29:34.360 --> 00:29:39.800
Or start from certainty, speak your truth from your foundation.
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:42.279
Wow.
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:44.279
Just let that settle.
00:29:46.920 --> 00:30:05.160
Because, see, in these moments when we we have these divine moments and conversations, it touches us in a way that we may not get it now, but we might be driving down the freeway and we hear your voice, and we hear that voice, and it's like, oh, that is me.
00:30:05.800 --> 00:30:06.840
You know what I'm saying?
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:11.880
And like, I the audience, they can't see it, but we both have this smile on our face.
00:30:12.120 --> 00:30:17.800
And I think that's what coaching has done for both of us, right?
00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:21.960
It's allowed us the place where we can just be us.
00:30:22.120 --> 00:30:23.000
You know what I mean?
00:30:23.080 --> 00:30:28.519
Like, I'm from New York, I speak in broken English, and I really don't care about it, right?
00:30:28.759 --> 00:30:38.200
It's like, hey, show up, be you, and allow yourself to impact the lives of the people that have been led to you.
00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:39.560
Mm-hmm.
00:30:40.600 --> 00:30:47.320
So at this stage, Pam, of your life, what do you do or and and work?
00:30:47.560 --> 00:30:49.480
How do you stay grounded?
00:30:49.800 --> 00:30:50.120
Right?
00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:57.080
When outcomes and situations are uncertain or pressure is high, how do you show up?
00:30:59.080 --> 00:31:03.160
Well, and my b I I work a lot with my body.
00:31:03.560 --> 00:31:09.640
I think we'll live in a in a world that teaches you to think too much.
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:20.920
And I when I started working on my doing my inner work, which frankly it started when I was like 11 years old.
00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:21.800
Yeah, exactly.
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:22.120
Right.
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:23.880
We just never noticed it, right?
00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:24.680
Right.
00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:25.960
Like now I know.
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:26.840
Yes.
00:31:27.320 --> 00:31:36.600
But when I was more conscious about it, I started, and I have ADHD, which is another thing that my anxiety is that it's high, my dopamine is low.
00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:39.960
Like there's a lot of things with my brain that I've had to learn to work with.
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:47.720
And so I would constantly, I'm always coaching myself, you know, like once a coach, always a coach, or self-coaching all the time.
00:31:48.360 --> 00:31:56.759
And I asked myself once, how when was the time when you felt the most connected to yourself?
00:31:57.080 --> 00:32:00.759
And I was a dancer, like once a dancer, I guess, always a dancer.
00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:02.519
So I would perform.
00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:15.880
And I remember one time I had a boyfriend back then, and he came to one of my performances and he was like, When you're on stage dancing, it's when I see the truest version of you.
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:21.160
And so I kind of like file that in my memory bank.
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:24.680
And so when I was self-coaching, like, when is the time when I'm the most me?
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:25.240
Yes.
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:27.400
And it's when I'm in my body.
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:27.960
Okay.
00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:34.440
And so it isn't when I'm performing, it's when I connected to this vessel that carries my soul.
00:32:34.600 --> 00:32:35.240
Yes.
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:39.400
And so when you ask, how do I stay grounded is through movement.
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:47.800
And movement, whether is I get up and I go for a walk, or I just do like a little quick dance by myself in the bathroom.
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:48.440
Yep.
00:32:48.759 --> 00:32:54.840
Or I splash water in my body so I can get back to connecting to my nervous system and my bagus nerve.
00:32:54.920 --> 00:33:06.680
And I do a lot of somatic work because being connected to this external part of myself allows me to stay connected to the inner part of myself that drives who I am.
00:33:07.800 --> 00:33:11.720
So, what role does nature play in this?
00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:14.039
Being outdoors.
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:31.240
I learn so much from the earth because I teach actually a lot about women's cycles and the seasons of the earth are the cycles that women go through every month.
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:31.640
Okay.
00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:33.400
Winter, spring, summer, autumn.
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:42.440
And so I remind myself as I navigate a month, where am I in my inner seasons?
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:46.200
If I am in my cycle, I'm in winter.
00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:48.600
What does the earth teach us about winter?
00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:49.960
In winter, you rest.
00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:56.039
In winter, you're not being a social butterfly because everyone's hibernating.
00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:58.840
So when you're in winter, you chill out.
00:33:59.080 --> 00:33:59.480
Yes.
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:02.440
You don't do a lot of networking events or hang out with people.
00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:08.199
You just do the bare minimum because that's what your body needs in that moment, just like Mama Earth teaches us.
00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:11.079
What happens after winter comes spring.
00:34:11.320 --> 00:34:13.159
So it's a follicular stage.
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:15.400
Spring is when you're a social butterfly.
00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:22.039
Go network, go meet with your friends, go do some front-facing conversations with people.
00:34:22.279 --> 00:34:26.599
Summer is ovulation, so it's the most confident.
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:27.239
Okay.
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:29.400
It's a great time to do some sales.
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:31.239
Go pitch something.
00:34:31.960 --> 00:34:33.639
Do something that makes you feel confident.
00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:35.320
Go on dates, you know, like do whatever you want.
00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:36.119
Right, right.
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:38.759
The earth is our best.
00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:40.279
It's my best teacher.
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:40.840
Okay.
00:34:41.079 --> 00:34:46.920
Because when I feel disconnected, then I go back and I say, Well, what would Mama Earth do in her cycles?
00:34:47.079 --> 00:34:48.279
Because humans are cyclical.
00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:53.559
We grow and we evolve and we change and we we are we're always constantly changing.
00:34:53.719 --> 00:35:00.279
And so nature to me is the first and biggest teacher that I have.
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:04.119
That is literally, I just need to go outside and ask.
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:05.079
Wow.
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:13.239
Okay, you're not going, yeah, you will believe this, but I was just having a conversation with my my daughter yesterday.
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:16.360
And we were talking about, are you ready for this?
00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:17.240
Tell me.
00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:22.039
Holding on to seasons that have already passed.
00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:28.440
Do you not see what just happened right now?
00:35:28.599 --> 00:35:31.800
This is like you can't make this up.
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:32.760
Nice.
00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:33.240
Right?
00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:35.400
You're showing up as who you are.
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:36.599
I'm showing up.
00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:47.880
And then you just gave me even more understanding of the seasons and how in a month you can go through all the seasons.
00:35:48.519 --> 00:35:57.800
It's like man, Pam, this is like, this is yeah, I'm speechless, y'all.
00:35:57.880 --> 00:35:59.559
I just want you to listen to this.
00:35:59.720 --> 00:36:03.400
I am absolutely speechless on what you just said to me.
00:36:03.720 --> 00:36:10.440
Because I understand seasons and I look at them from a spiritual perspective in the same way that you just said it.
00:36:10.599 --> 00:36:15.240
And at times you could be in a season for years.
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:16.440
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:18.360
And it's like, what's going on?
00:36:18.519 --> 00:36:23.800
Well, it's not that it's going on, you're just in this season, the season of rest.
00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:25.480
Well, but I don't want to be in rest.
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:30.840
Well, you can fight to get out of it, but what's going to happen on the other side of that?
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:45.960
So for that person, I just need you to pause, hit pause on this one, and go backwards and listen to what Coach Pam just said, because that to me was phenomenal.
00:36:46.200 --> 00:36:47.800
It was greater than well.
00:36:48.119 --> 00:36:50.680
That was phenomenal on how you did that.
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:58.840
So as we go to this point, I want you to how do you define wholeness?
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:14.360
Because we hear a lot of buzzwords about wholeness, but how do you define it and bring all of your coaching and your life experience into helping women live from their place of wholeness?
00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:17.240
I would say certainty.
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:18.119
Ooh.
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:26.440
Because actually, I was in a coaching call with my business coach, and she said, I think you're a confidence coach.
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:28.519
And I'm like, oh no, ma'am.
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:31.079
Because confidence is performative.
00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:33.880
I am a certainty coach.
00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:35.079
Oh, girl, come on.
00:37:35.240 --> 00:37:36.039
Wait, hold on.
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:37.720
You you gotta say that again.
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:38.680
Say it one more.
00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:40.119
Just that little buzz.
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:41.000
Confidence.
00:37:41.240 --> 00:37:42.680
Confidence is performative.
00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:43.559
Yes.
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:47.800
We are taught to, we're socialized to fake it till you make it.
00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:50.360
Which sometimes could work.
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:51.800
Like I faked it till I made it.
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:53.720
Like I don't know if I made it, but I faked it.
00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:54.840
Right, right.
00:37:55.240 --> 00:37:59.559
Did it get me places potentially, but it didn't make me feel certain.
00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:00.360
Yes.
00:38:00.680 --> 00:38:08.280
And so certainty to me is a way to be to be whole, to, to embrace your wholeness.
00:38:08.599 --> 00:38:14.119
Because I I speak in metaphor of every coach of me.
00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:21.079
But I I talk often about the bridge that first gen women don't get.
00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:28.760
So if I look at my husband, for example, who's a white man, he was born with a bridge pretty solidly built.
00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:29.400
Okay.
00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:35.880
You know, he was born at point A, and his bridge was built to his career, let's say, that's point B.
00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:36.200
B.
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:38.840
And there's like all these things already in it.
00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:40.920
He just had to fill in the blanks a little bit.
00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:41.720
Yes.
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:45.559
Because the world was built in a way that serves him.
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:54.519
For me as a first gen, I arrived at the beginning of my bridge with a lot of spaces and had to, I had to literally bring my tools to do it.
00:38:54.680 --> 00:38:57.159
You had to do the work to get the okay, girl.
00:38:57.320 --> 00:38:58.519
Come on, come on, keep going.
00:38:59.079 --> 00:38:59.400
Yes.
00:38:59.720 --> 00:39:05.000
Certainty is built as a foundation of your wholeness.
00:39:05.240 --> 00:39:08.360
So it's the floor of the bridge.
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:18.119
And I see my certainty as a way to say, look, I'm Brazilian because I've been able to literally, I came to this country with a piece of luggage and a dream.
00:39:18.200 --> 00:39:19.559
And I was 19 years old.
00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:21.000
And look at where I am.
00:39:21.240 --> 00:39:23.079
So I've been building my bridge.
00:39:23.240 --> 00:39:23.559
Yes.
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:25.720
Literally, brick by brick.
00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:26.119
Yes.
00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:27.559
And there's still a lot of holes.
00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:28.920
I still don't have a lot of answers.
00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:30.360
I still don't have a lot of resources.
00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:32.039
I still don't have a lot of things.
00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:41.800
And I'm using this as a part of my lived experience allows me to be whole and certain because I've proven myself that I can do it.
00:39:42.039 --> 00:39:42.680
Yes.
00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:54.280
And so wholeness to me is to show up to be with the most certainty that you have already built yourself with what you've already done.
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:59.079
Your lived experience allows you to back it up.
00:39:59.320 --> 00:39:59.720
Yes.
00:39:59.960 --> 00:40:01.880
And sometimes we often dismiss it.
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:02.920
Okay.
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:08.440
Say more about that if you're willing, because that is that's a that's a trick, right?
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:09.800
It's 100% a trick.
00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:17.240
And to your point earlier of we use the wounds as in the trauma as, you know, flip it.
00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:17.720
Yes.
00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:19.960
This is a very coachy reframe.
00:40:20.119 --> 00:40:23.079
You know, flip it to use it as a strength.
00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:26.360
I'm very proud to say English is not my first language, but look at me.
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:30.280
I can communicate in this language and I speak too.
00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:30.920
Yes.
00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:37.559
So come at me if I say a wrong, uh, a word wrong, or if I flip the grammar in some ways.
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:38.119
Absolutely.
00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:40.360
I'm thinking I'm thinking in two languages.
00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:40.840
Yes.
00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:42.200
How many are you thinking about?
00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:42.680
You know?
00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:53.639
And so I think people often see their wounds and the lived experience as a disadvantage.
00:40:54.039 --> 00:41:00.840
And in fact, I was I was in a on a call when there was another coach who said, you know, English is not my first language.
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:02.599
And sometimes I I get insecure.
00:41:02.680 --> 00:41:04.200
And I was like, why?
00:41:05.079 --> 00:41:06.760
Because you're thinking in two languages.
00:41:06.920 --> 00:41:10.840
Like there's a small percentage of the population that can actually do that.
00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:11.639
Yes.
00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:14.599
I own the fact that sometimes I don't have the word in English.
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:16.440
And I literally I say it in Spanish.
00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:17.559
And I'm like, you know what?
00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:19.320
I actually have the word in Spanish.
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:25.559
So let me just say it in Spanish because that helps my brain open the file cabinet and be like, oh, this is the actual word in English.
00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:26.440
Yes.
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:35.320
And so I think the invitation is for people to think about their lived experience as part of their certainty, their wholeness.
00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:40.280
Because that's those are the bricks that have built them as human beings.
00:41:40.680 --> 00:41:45.079
And when society tells us that those are our weaknesses, it's actually the opposite.
00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:45.880
Yes.
00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:47.400
Nobody has that.
00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:51.559
And here's the thing is I so appreciate what you just did.
00:41:52.039 --> 00:42:01.960
Because in that moment, you literally decided to what you were thinking, you said, you know what, I'm no longer gonna think it.
00:42:02.200 --> 00:42:05.720
I'm gonna put it out on a floor, and I'm gonna live in that.
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:08.039
And that is living by the power of truth.
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:16.519
Isn't that it's like it's incredible, but it's it's a discipline, or no, no, actually, it's not a discipline.
00:42:16.680 --> 00:42:23.000
It's the inner work that we do to live in that place where we can put it on the floor.
00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:25.480
And it's like you can take it or not, it doesn't matter.
00:42:25.639 --> 00:42:28.440
I'm certain, girl, I'm I'm running with certain.
00:42:28.680 --> 00:42:34.840
I'm telling you right now, world look out because certain is like certainty.
00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:38.360
I never looked at it from that perspective.
00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:40.760
There's so much depth.
00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:42.680
Nobody can shake you when you're certain.
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:44.280
No, exactly.
00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:45.720
Right?
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:48.519
I want you to do something.
00:42:48.599 --> 00:43:00.119
I as you were talking, like my mind is blown right now, but as you were talking about showing up with the tools to build the bridge, right?
00:43:00.200 --> 00:43:12.440
And there's holes still in the bridge, but I want you to take a moment and just metaphorically look back and see who's walking on that bridge now.
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:14.440
Do you do you understand what I'm saying?
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:17.159
It's like what's up, y'all?
00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:18.280
Do you see what I mean?
00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:23.480
It's like and acknowledging even the fact that you got a little bridge built.
00:43:23.720 --> 00:43:25.480
Come on, girl, come on.
00:43:26.680 --> 00:43:38.039
Oh my goodness, I am having a moment right now because I think that's the the essence of where the work that we need to start shouting from the rooftop.
00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:39.480
You are so what?
00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:43.400
You're a hundred yards into building the bridge, but you're a hundred yards in.
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:44.920
Do you understand what I'm saying?
00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:49.559
And I think it's like, whoa, Pam, you firing me up.
00:43:49.720 --> 00:43:52.920
You are literally firing me up right now.
00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:57.079
So as we get ready to wrap this up, I have two questions.
00:43:57.159 --> 00:44:02.599
And these are kind of my, I want to call them legacy questions, right?
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:21.720
And the first one is, is as you reflect on your journey, your personal lived experience journey, what do you hope people feel or experience in your presence before they attempt to change anything?
00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:28.840
I hope to see a mirror of what it's like to be certain.
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:30.039
Yeah.
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:37.880
So that they can own their truth, their power, their story without apology.
00:44:38.200 --> 00:44:38.840
Yes.
00:44:39.240 --> 00:44:42.280
Because everyone is different and everyone's the same.
00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:49.320
I was reading the other day, humans, regardless of who you are, we share 90% of our DNA.
00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:50.119
Yes.
00:44:51.079 --> 00:44:54.039
Isn't that quite freaking amazing, right?
00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:54.920
Isn't it?
00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:57.079
It's like mind-blowing.
00:44:57.400 --> 00:44:57.880
Totally.
00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:15.320
And so what I'm hoping when people experience my presence is see a little bit of themselves reflected, yeah, and see find another tool for their bridge.
00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:16.280
Yes.
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:19.639
Even if it's a tiny nail or a piece of wood.
00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:20.200
Yeah.
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:23.480
And but think about it, it's not tiny, right?
00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:27.880
It's it's the it's a nail that helps the you see what I'm saying?
00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:29.079
It's like holding it together.
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:31.480
Yes.
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:33.240
So thank you, Pam.
00:45:33.480 --> 00:45:39.960
I I I am just so blessed that you and I were able to get connected today.
00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:47.720
So now, lastly, I want you to speak to the person that's listening to this podcast.
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:50.039
What do you hope they take away?
00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:52.360
Because I I know what I want for them, girl.
00:45:52.680 --> 00:45:57.000
You have just completely zeroed in on it.
00:45:57.159 --> 00:45:59.400
What do you what do you hope for them?
00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:01.079
What do you want for them?
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:04.519
I want them to remember that they always have a choice.
00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:05.480
Yeah.
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:17.639
So whatever decision they may need to make, I'm always a very list, like, okay, choice number one and choice number two.
00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:20.200
Maybe it's choice number three or number four.
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:22.519
Because we get to write it.
00:46:23.079 --> 00:46:23.480
Yeah.
00:46:23.720 --> 00:46:24.039
Oh.
00:46:26.360 --> 00:46:29.400
So choose what's best for you.
00:46:29.559 --> 00:46:30.119
Yeah.
00:46:32.200 --> 00:46:33.559
I just caught that.
00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:36.280
See, that was just very subtle.
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:40.360
Choice number one, choice number two, and we get to write it.
00:46:40.440 --> 00:46:42.519
We're we're writing the choices, right?
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:45.000
So it's like you get to write them and you get to choose them.
00:46:45.240 --> 00:46:46.200
Exactly.
00:46:46.599 --> 00:46:49.159
And that's where certainty comes in, right?
00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:50.519
That is where certainty comes in.
00:46:50.680 --> 00:46:56.119
Oh, Pam, this has been absolutely amazing.
00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:56.840
So thank you.
00:46:57.079 --> 00:46:57.480
Thank you so much.
00:46:57.720 --> 00:46:58.840
This is just a lot of fun, Donna.
00:46:59.559 --> 00:47:01.320
Thank you for sharing your time with me.
00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:02.840
Thank you.