S2E1: Breaking Down "The Innovator" - Episode 1 of Season 2 of Fallout on Amazon Prime

All right, welcome back to I will Go down with the Ship. Feels so good to say that. Hi, Chelsea. Hi, Heather. God, it's been so long.
I'm so glad to be back. It feels like it's been forever, but it also feels like, like, honestly, in the scope of like TV shows that they kind of got this out quick. And I'm excited, but I'm also hesitant because I'm just like, okay, did we rush anything that we shouldn't be rushing?
So before we do our deep dive into episode one, why don't we talk about. Just initial. Like, okay, let's. Let's do a quick. When you first saw the trailers, like the different trailers, like, what were your emotions or any theories are popping up or like, what were you thinking?
Before we dive into episode one, I was just so excited that we were coming back and I was really kind of hoping for like a, like based on the trailers. Kind of a buddy cop sort of road trip type situation. Yeah. What I was hoping for based on the trailers. Yes.
And obviously we will get into that because that's not really, really what we got. I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking we were gonna see. We were kind of gonna start from basically the cliffhanger after season one and just jump right from there. But we kind of have a time jump from episode one based on the trailers.
I was really excited because the majority of the scenes with Lucy and the ghoul, they're obviously together, but there was one scene where we saw Cooper, Max in the Metal Gear and somebody else and they're kind of walking and Lucy is nowhere to be found. And so my initial thing is like, oh, my gosh, does Cooper have to team up with Max? Because Lucy has gotten herself into some trouble and they need to her. And that would be a huge deal for Cooper because he's super lone ranger, like, not gonna. He doesn't even want to really team up with Lucy, but he kind of needs her.
And so, like, this would be a huge deal for him to do, but that's just obviously a theory, so. Right. I think that would be a really fun dynamic to watch. 100%. 100%.
So based on everything so far, just trailer wise. Again, we are not going to get into the episode quite yet. Were you like, oh, this is good for our ship? Were you just like, I don't know, or was this more like, you know what, I'm not going to react either way kind of thing? Like, what were you feeling in just for the shipper, like the shippiness let's talk about the recap at the beginning of the episode from season one, actually, because it really kind of made me nervous for our ship because they were so heavy on the Max, Lucy romantic moments in the recap.
And I'm just like, I have nothing against you Vault Night people out there, I swear to God. Except for the fact that you're blocking my Dane and Max ship, but that's a whole other rant. And like, I have nothing against Vault Knight except for the fact that I just think that the chemistry is there. More for Golsie. But with the way they leaned in the recap from season one, I'm like, oh, it feels a little bit to me just from the recap, like, they're really trying to push the romance between Lucy and Max when they come back together.
And I don't know how I feel about that. I think, honestly, okay, here's my take, because I noticed that too. But if anything, I feel like that's a good sign because I feel like they are shoving Max and Lucy down our. And again, I will preface this with exactly what you said. We're going to ship and let ship.
This particular podcast is we are focused on Lucy and the Ghoul. We are not anti other ships. This is just what we. This is just what we ship. And so when we're talking about other characters or other ships, it is not in any kind of negative way.
It's is just we are talking from writers perspectives and just fan perspectives and just shipper perspectives. And so, again, no insultment. Please don't be offended. I think that they're shoving the Max and Lucy thing hard for a reason. I think it's like we're in Vegas, we're playing poker.
We're going to do some kind of slight of hand. We're going to remind you. No, no, no, no, no. Remember all of the stuff with Max and Lucy. So.
So when you see the dynamic of Cooper and Lucy play out, you're going to realize that Max and Lucy look good on a surface level, but Cooper and Lucy have much more depth and affect each other much more than Max and Lucy. And I was doing a breakdown just because I'm a nerd and I like to talk about, like, meet cutes and everything like that. And we're talking and I realized that Max and Lucy could potentially are potentially the same story. It's almost like this very hero's journey into the world. Like, I just feel for their characters.
I would never write this kind of dynamic because there is not enough tension Conflict. Yeah. And then on top of that, there's. They're not changing each other. They're essentially the same person.
And so they are learning about the world and about, you know, their character growth and their character arc. It's not going to be affected by the other person. I do think, you know, they like each other because they're supposed to like each other. You know, Max is the first normal, normal person that Lucy has met since leaving the Vault. Same with Max, to a degree.
I mean, he. He was kind of taken in by the brotherhood and raised with a very, very specific set of values, the same way that Lucy was. And now that they're kind of in this world, it's sort of. I feel like they're clinging to that first person that, you know, they're supposed to want to either be with or whatever. But I don't see think that that dynamic is going to change them even to a degree.
When you look at the Dane and Max, Max's whole perception was changed when he realized that that Dane purposefully injured themselves to get out of being in that. Of being a squire. And I think that that, again, that changed Max's perspective. Perspective. And I think that the person who affects the other person more, that's where the chemistry between the Char, Max and Lucy, to me, are very.
They're too similar. Their story arcs are way too similar for me to ship them together, because how are they going to grow if they're in that same spot? And I think that's where we see Cooper come in, at least in Lucy's perspective. You know, for the. For our ship to be like, no, you're going to change in this way.
And the same thing to be said with even Lucy changing Cooper's perspective and humanizing him a little bit more. And there could be arguments of like, okay, well, remember the scene where Max is basically telling Lucy, you know, like, the whole gun thing where, you know, you saw the. The train tracks and the. The two cup. The.
That couple, and, you know, Max is like, no, you need to keep your. Your weapon on them. And Lucy's like, no, no, no. Like, we can do this. It's fine.
And then they almost die. And it's like, but. But maximum let. Okay, this is just my dark romance girly coming out right now. But it's like, Max let her kind of experience that.
The ghoul would not. He would not. He would be like, I'm just gonna kill them, and you're just gonna have to deal with it essentially, you know, like. But I think that it's also. I think Max was doing it because he deferred to her.
Cooper, if he did let it carry on, he would do it to make a point. He would do it to show I'm right. Max isn't saying I'm right. He's saying, like, you know, maybe, like, we'll do it your way. I'll let you lead.
Like, I think that Lucy needs that Alpha that knows what she. Anyway, I'm just gonna stop because anyway. But you get. I agree 100%. Yeah.
And like, I. I just very much feel like any. Like, if Cooper had been the one in that situation, if he had let it go on the way Max did, it's because he's trying to teach a lesson. Because he's always trying to teach Lucy something about the world, about herself, about the people around her, whatever. Like, he's always trying to teach her something. Yeah.
And I think that Max likes her too much to want to teach her something or he's lying to her. So he lets things play out so he doesn't have to tell the truth. At least from season the. Season one. He doesn't even tell her who he really is until the end of the season, essentially.
Okay. So I think that with that dynamic. So we. We talked about a little bit about the recap before we jump into the. Let's.
Let's. Let's get this off our chests. The interviews that have been going on before. It's. Okay.
Here's the thing. Like, I've seen a lot. I think Ella has called them a married couple. I don't even know how many times Aaron has basically said they're all in some kind of a love triangle, which implies it's not just a Lucy, Max thing. Like, a thing.
Even one of the co writers, I don't know if she was a co creator or co writer, but she essentially said something about how, like, Lucy likes it too much with Cooper. Something like that. Um, but then you have, you know, Goggins has come out and said they're definitely not father. Daughter. He already has a daughter.
No one can replace his daughter. And he was very specific on. He did not want to play it that way. And if he. If they were going to force him to play it that way, he didn't want anything to do with it.
So my issue is the way that the questions are being asked to me is very condescending to people who ship this dynamic. Very much so. And it's frustrating because now I will say, yes, we. We all know as shippers this show is not romance at all. As of right now.
That is not the primary genre. We are not watching for the romance. I would like to say, and I don't speak for all shippers, but the dynamic between the two characters, because we recognize so many structural patterns, whether it's Beauty and the Beast, Hades and Persephone, whatever you want to call it. And we're watching that. We don't.
I would say we don't actually care if they can anonically get together at the end of the series. We want to see the dynamic of the relationship play out. And I feel like when they ask, like, oh, yeah, like they. There are people out there who think that Lucy and the ghoul should be together. The way that it comes out is like they.
They want the clickbait. They want to throw the actors into a. Oh, that would never happen. Okay, Goggins, give me your little Cooper Howard smirk when you do it. I. You talk how they're not father daughter.
And you were not saying it like that. Okay. Literally. I wanted to comment. Stop lying, Walton.
I know. Seriously, this guy. But I just. I just feel like I don't like that they're trying to. It.
To me, it comes across like they're trying to put the actors in a position to condemn the ship. Even though I would argue that if interviewers are even asking about it in the first place. It's the loud. It's. It's the most popular ship, whether it's canon or not.
That is just my opinion on it. And I think that, again, I'm not here saying you have to conform to this. It should be, you know, canon. Whatever. I'm saying.
Number one, you know my little motto. If you've been watching the podcast long enough, make it make sense. If it's not going to be Lucy and Cooper. Number one, you. For the structure that you've given us based on season one, because it's so Chef's kiss that it should happen.
But also, number two, like, make something else make sense. Like. Right, because it has to be supported by the plot or I'm not here for it. 100. And the character arcs, like, what.
How are the characters going to change based on how they are affected not only by each other, but by the surroundings, by everything that's going on, by the plot itself. And so. So, like, if we. If we take a character arc, like Norm. Norm starts out like a little shit, like a little brother who's kind of an asshole.
He's gonna say his sister is gonna marry a cannibal and we are already seeing leadership qualities in him. You know, like, we're already seeing, like, what's gonna happen based on his character arc, who he's affected by now. We don't have a love interest for him as of right now. Who knows if that's going to change. But his character arc doesn't actually need any type of relationship as of right now in order for him to complete that character arc based on the story that we've seen so far, I would argue, including episode one of season two.
Whereas Cooper needs to get back to his. Like, he needs to find his humanity, and Lucy needs to realize the world is. Is not black and white. It's not just hunky dory. We're going to talk our way through everything.
And they can only change if they are thrust into a situation together with that forced proximity. And that is why I so desperately, desperately wanted to see that buddy cop dynamic. And so, since we're close to episode one, Chelsea, let's talk. We already saw episode one. We know what we got.
What are some things that you wish we had gotten? Like, whether shipping versus storytelling doesn't matter, like, what. What are your initial impressions of what you wish you had seen in that story? I wish we had gotten more of the journey and more of them on the road together before we got to the point where the season opened. Yes, 100%.
I was talking to Chelsea before, and we were talking about how we had initially expected it to be picked up right where it left off, but also, like, you know, Lucy had just shot her mother. She. Her father basically abandoned her. I wanted to see her come to grips with that. I wanted to see that, you know, angst really, of, like, what happens.
Like, I feel like there was this headcanon where she doesn't talk to Cooper for, like, the first three days. And he's so annoyed by this because beforehand she wouldn't shut up. And it was like he missed her talking. And, you know, obviously that can still be a headcanon. But I really wanted to see whatever was going to happen play out.
I know that when, you know, she's going, and we'll go, we'll get into this more. But, like, when. When she's getting the flea soup, there was the dynamic of she went to go interview the lady, key steps in back. There was no communication needed between them. And I would have have loved to have seen a scene where they established this sort of con, like, communication of, like, no, I think I should go, because you're kind of an.
Let Me handle this. And, you know, like, I. Even the trust. I feel like Cooper was a little bit vulnerable with what he was telling her. And I was just so kind of blown away because I didn't think she had earned that based on what we were shown in season.
And I would have liked to have seen, again, them establishing a trust, but the fact that Cooper. That she turns Cooper in and Cooper trusts her. Okay, we should probably just jump into the episode at this point. Okay. Chelsea, why don't you set the scene?
Like, let. It was a good opening. Like, I'm not gonna lie, it was a great opening. But I would have loved to see, like, the setup and how they established how they were going to run this. I did love the action sequence and the way it played out.
And, like, I. I giggled so hard when he's having to repeat himself. Like, I'd like to get on with it. Yeah.
That was so funny. And, like, I just. And Lucy was Lucy, because of course she was. I am. I read this thing on Tumblr where she lets it play out a little longer because it was like revenge for her being tied up to.
With a gulper or whatever. I was like, lucy, you're so funny. That's a good. I like that theory. That's adorable.
I, like, I'm just gonna go with that one because, let's be honest, he kind of deserved it. Absolutely. And for, you know, like, dragging her across the desert with a lasso around her neck also. Oh, 100%. And now he has the barbed wire rope around his neck.
I. I loved. I. I mean, I loved all of it. I loved that Lucy was still Lucy. I loved that, like, there was almost this exasperation that he felt with her, but also, like, playfulness. Yeah.
Like an affectionate exasperation. Like, of course. Here. Here we go. You know, like.
And he's literally, like, choking, like, and she's, like, trying to tell him, like, okay, here's option one, which is what he wanted to do. But the fact that, you know, like, I don't know, I just feel like the fact that he trusted her enough to put himself in that situation. Exactly. And obviously, you know, the ghoul, he's gonna heal, whatever. But I just.
I just feel that there is an established trust between them now, despite their moral differences. And I would have really have liked to have seen that trust establish, because, you know, that there had to have been situations where she saved him in order, or even he saved her or whatever in order to have established that trust in that first in the first place. Right. And then his. His line griping about her shooting people in asses and kneecaps all the time, and him having to finish the job is, like, kind of gives us a little bit of what we wanted to see from their time on the road together.
Yes, absolutely. And. And I like it because even if, like, again, if we had gotten that, we would have seen. Okay. I don't think the ghoul would have necessarily comforted Lucy after the whole mom and dad situation, but I think he would have given her something to get.
Oh, not get over it, but get over that hump of, like, okay, I need to focus on finding my dad. I need to bring him to justice. And I think that, like, all of the little ways that they work so well together in this episode, it would have been very fascinating to see. So we kind of skipped over. We get to meet Mr. House.
And I thought Justin Theroux did such a good job. Like, he's charming and creepy at the same time. Isn't it weird that he reminds me of Walt Disney, actually, now that you say that, like, no. Like, it does not. But, like, obviously, like, evil Walt Disney and people you like.
Okay, well, what. Anyway, I'm not. You get what I'm saying? But yes, I thought he did such a good job. And it's interesting because the whole, like, thing on the back of the neck, I was like, okay, that's really fascinating.
How is that going to play. Play out, Play into things? Yes. And it's like when we get much later into the episode, we see smaller, more advanced devices, and I'm just like, oh, that makes me so nervous. Okay, let me throw something at you.
And I. I want your honest opinion. My fear is that Barb has one of these in the back of her neck, and now she gets to be a victim. I don't think that that's possible, though, because she definitely didn't have one in the meeting where she's like, we dropped the bombs. And so even if that's the case, she basically came up with this on her own, like, or whoever. She still said it at the meeting without the device on the back of her neck.
I just don't want them to recon this and make her a victim. Right. I don't either can go back. Yeah. She victimized her own daughter.
In a way, she might have thought she was doing the right thing. And I guarantee you, she probably did fully believe that she was doing the right thing. But she made victims of Cooper and of Janie 100%.
And what I really thought. Another theory that I was thinking about was, okay, what if Cooper has this on the back of his neck? And if you remember his little thing to Lucy, like, I don't really care as long as you shoot the rope or whatever he says, specifically, like, all I care about is you shoot the rope. Like, it almost foreshadows he might have one of those. And she has to save him now.
She has to shoot the rope, essentially, which could be that device on the back of his neck. Now, that would be very intriguing.
So when I. When I saw that scene, and then, you know, you have a few days to kind of digest it, like, that's kind of what was playing in my head, because I just. I just don't want it to be like, again, this retcon of here are some in, like, people who did horrible things, but, well, they were under control because that takes away some of the stakes if you don't use it in the right way. Right. Well.
And it's takes away some character agency, which I feel just honestly sucks. Like, if you do it that way. Yeah. I mean, if you do it in a way where, like, they put it in Cooper, and now Cooper has to go and kill Lucy or something to show everyone that he's still the monster he always was or whatever, I'm fine with that because that would go towards his, like, character growth. And it would almost be an interesting flashback to Lucy in the.
You know, in that part store where she had to sort of step up and handle it. And then she would be in this position of, do I live? Do I kill Cooper? Like, what do I do? Or can I figure out a way for both of us to get out of this situation?
Exactly. And I'm fine with them losing their agency in that particular way. Especially with Cooper, who starts out ready, not. I. I still don't think he would have necessarily killed her, per se, but, like, to come completely full circle where he doesn't want to kill her, and now he can't help himself.
But, yeah, I. I just. I don't. If they do it so they can retcon things, I'm gonna be really, like. The storytelling is gonna completely fall flat for me. I'm just gonna be like this.
I'll be very disappointed. Yeah. But we'll see. It's just.
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not. I don't want to speculate and, like, get myself up in a tizzy.
You know, we have until February until, like, the end of this, you know, season since Amazon decided to draw it out instead of just dropping all eight episodes like they did before. But whatever. Yeah. At least I'll have episodes around my birthday to hold me over. Bridgerton.
Oh, yeah, for sure. But I just think that, like, it was what I. What I did like about the opening is that I watched, like, the first 15 minutes of the. It, like, welcome to Dairy sort of prequel. I didn't really get into it, but the very beginning I just felt was super shock value.
I felt like it had nothing to do with the actual story. Whereas this, you still get that shock, but it's. It's very important to the storytelling. Already it's immersed in the storytelling. They are enmeshed together.
I will say, however, that I did both Love and Ugly cry at, like, the way it welcome to Derry Chapter one ended. Okay. Particularly the last two episodes. Like, I cried like a little bitch, but it was also beautiful. Okay.
I didn't see. I didn't get obviously that far, but okay. So I'm glad you know what scene I'm talking about. Like, the kid is in the car and I'm just like, what does this have anything to do, like, you're just. If it makes, like, Saw, like, I'm also the person who loves Saw.
Like, I really want there to be a Saw Christmas movie. So I. I'm not worried about the grotesque or the gore or even, like the sick different ways that you can. You know, it's more of, like, how does this actually relate to the story? And I felt like, get there. Okay, okay.
But for Fallout, I. I really liked how it was done. And it. You clearly have very highly defined stakes. And then we move over to Lucy and the Ghoul. And again, I do like it because it's almost like I feel like it's Rush Hour two.
But what was so great about Rush Hour two is we had Rush Hour one so we could see Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan, like, have to learn, okay, how are we going to work together? And so different. And I really want Lucy and Cooper to have their Rush Hour one, but we didn't. But we didn't get it. So I felt like, oh, I love this scene.
But I feel like it would have been so much better if we had had that development between them to earn that, you know, bounty scene. But I do love that Lucy already has this, like, reputation of being this, like, bounty hunter. Right. I thought that was so cool for that to be a thing that, like, the V end up being known for. Exactly.
I think that's Great. And so. And okay, let me ask your opinion. Do you think Cooper was showing off just a little bit while he was killing everybody else? Yes.
And I loved it. Yeah. I loved every minute of it. It was so great. And once he had that, like, barbed wire noose and was using it like a whip, I was like, lord, yes, take me back to my Indiana Jones roots.
I'm here for it. I know that the Jane Austen girlies love the flash of calf. He. He showed everybody when he was reaching for that weapon. So I thought that was good.
And I just love Lucy watching him, like, typical. Again, it's that exasperation, that fond exasperation that they both have for each other. But I'm like, I want to see it play out anyway. Right. I would love to have seen how that got established.
And I'm sad that we didn't get that. Unless we're going to get it in flashbacks. Oh, I'm fine. If. If it's flashbacks, I will take everything I've said back.
That's fine. I mean, so. Yeah. So, okay, so we get. We.
We obviously. We talked about the Robert house stuff. We get the ghoul and the Lucy scene, but then we get a flashback of. Because Lucy's all like, well, why would my dad go to Las Vegas? And the ghoul just kind of sighs.
And then we get over. We kind of get a flashback of like, okay, it's almost like, well, we're gonna drop the bomb ourselves kind of thing. And then Cooper goes after his daughter. He basically picks her up and packs her up.
And I love really quick aside. I love the music. I love the songs that they play for every scene because they mean something. This is like the layering of intention adore. Like, literally season one and season two.
So far, every single musical choice has been so meaningful. Yeah. And I like whoever is doing the music for Fallout, just like, mad props. That's. You're doing an incredible job.
So this. The music for this particular scene is make the World Go Away by. I think it's Eddie Arnold, Edie Arnold. But essentially it's like Cooper just found out his wife is ready to blow up the world for financial gain. So he kind of packs her up.
He wants to take her to Bakersfield to that little. Doesn't he say something in the season one about he just wants to go on a ranch and, like, not do anything or something like that? And raise chickens or something like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I keep forgetting, like, what's actually canon and what's just in my head, right.
And what's wonderful fanfics that I've read. Oh my gosh, 100%. But then we see like the alarms are going off and even though they're technically. It's. It's technically supposed to just be like a drill.
People are freaking out. Jeannie's freaking out. Can I just say though, I love the moment with the Vault Tec van being like parked directly in Cooper's way. And then this guy who's cast and looks a lot like the Vault TEC representative in the beginning of Fallout 4 who comes to your house and wants to get all your information because you've been pre selected to go into the Vault. He looked a lot like that character in the video game.
And I just thought that was like a really cool moment. And for that moment to be something that is frustrating Cooper and is blocking his path, I thought was really Chef's kiss. It's very symbolic. And it to go back to the graffiti from season one when Cooper is in that empty pool, there's graffiti right by his head and by what I'm talking about if. If you know, viewers don't know, it's like right after he gets his throat his.
Right after he. Lucy shoots him down, he ends up in this like empty pool and it says death before surrender. And so I feel like, you know, season one, I think me and you are very strong with know the graffiti means something, but this is. It's just like death to management. I love you.
All of these things in the background, like it's always. It's never just a throwaway thing. No, it's never. Whether it's the music or the set pieces or any of it. And even so to go to your point about this guy who resembles this Fallout 4 character, what I really like because I've never played the game.
So what I really like about this is what I know about Fallout 4 is that. And you can correct me if I'm wrong, Chelsea, from what I understand the research that I've done is you actually have to romance a character in Fallout 4 like a non platonic. And it can be with anything from another human to a robot, to a ghoul, to. To a brotherhood. And if, if they did this on purpose where it looks like this dude, I'm hoping it's setting the stage of like shit's about to get really weird.
Anything can happen in this canon universe. And that's what I love so much about Bethesda games in general is that literally the world is so open and so broad, and there's so many paths you can take. There's so many options, and it can literally go, like, any which way. There's. It almost feels like there's no limits.
Yeah. 100. And so that's why I think so many Ghoulsey shippers, number one, play the games like they start they. But also that there's hope in the ship because it's. It can be canon in the game.
It's not like, oh, this would never happen in any form of media except fanfic. It's like, no, technically speaking, you know, these characters could be together in the game, and it would work because of the. You know, because of what Fallout itself is. Okay, so after that flashback scene, we transition over to the vault. And I love our vaulties.
I love Shet so much.
But we.
Oh, go ahead. Sorry. No. Who do we love so much loving? Chet's, like, very.
Talking through his teeth, very tight smile. Way he's dealing with Steph right now and how frustrated he is with people, just, like, treating him and stuff like they're married, treating him like that baby is his. And he feels very much like, that's not my family, even though I'm getting stuck into this role. Well, part of it, Chat, honey, is this is why you don't super crazy girls, like, what did you think was gonna happen? You're in a vault now you're stuck with her.
But, yes, I. And again, it's the character arc, right? Chet, kind of. He was desperately in love with Lucy, and now it's like he. And again, it's that dynamic between him and Steph that makes him realize, I actually don't like this.
I should have helped Norm because is so weird right now. And we can go into the Shet scene in a little bit. But, like, right now, what I love about this particular scene is that it is a throwback to season one because they are talking about the water reserves. And that was just almost like a very small throwaway line in season one. But now we see, okay, the stakes for this particular thing have raised a little bit.
And so Betty's talking about re. Relocating, like, power to water filters. And then what I love about the writing is that they interrupt that really important scene for some scene that seems random. Like, this is where Reg comes in and, you know, he's like, where's Norm? And all this stuff.
And, you know, like, hey, Betty. Betty is trying to placate him and be, okay, go. Go create a club, Reg. Like, you need something to do. You know what I mean, right?
And she's very much just trying to get him out of her hair. Yeah. And to keep quiet or to not raise so much concern about Norm. Like, no, Norm was transferred over. He's.
He's somewhere else. But she still has to play this role of sympathetic. I care about you. Like, oh, you know, we've been through a lot lately. Let's start a group for, you know, talking about feelings.
And I love Reg. Like, well, what kind of feelings am I feeling? Right? That was so funny. And I loved how snarky, like, low key snarky Betty was with the ones she listed off.
I thought that was pretty fantastic. Right. And then it jumps back over to Steph, and I guess the guy's name is. Is Davey, but. Oh, I love Davey.
Oh, my gosh. My. I love him so much. I love these V's. Like, I love them, but my.
Okay, this is now the Steph Shet scene. But my biggest issue is, like, Steph clearly came from, you know, Cooper's world, Betty's world, Hank's world. But my thing is, like, okay, she got pregnant, and she's completely disassociating herself from. From this child, from this pregnancy. And I'm like, is.
Is this who she is as a person? Are these her orders? Because I'm like, as a mom, it would be, you know, and you can have whatever opinion that you want to have about children until you have one. You know what I mean? And so that's my thing.
It's like, what is going on for her to completely disassociate herself from it? Unless the child is fake, like, that much of a psychopath. Is my question, like, is she having extreme postpartum depression, or is she just nuts? Exactly. Exactly.
Or is the child. Was the whole thing, like, was the pregnancy fake? Like, and there's just, like. I mean, I don't know how you would just randomly get a baby. So I'm just.
I'm gonna shoot my own theory down. But. But it's just kind of like, I just. It was just crazy. And I love when she's like, what do you want to name the kid?
And he's like, it is not my kid. And somehow they come up with Shet Jr. Even though she was like, I don't want to name a kid that is not my kid. Shed. Because it's my dad's name.
And I just. I thought that it was, like, very Chef's Kiss. But at the same time, when I'm doing my initial, like, watch. I'm just Kind of like, why is this scene here? What are we supposed to get from the scene?
Like, it's obviously got to be leading to something somewhere, because they so rarely give us a puzzle piece that they don't follow up on later. 100. Like, look at the water filter. So I'm almost wondering if we need to see a little bit of Shet's character growth so he can go and help Norm possibly. And we need to see what is building up for there to be some kind of trigger for him to go get Norm, which would definitely make sense.
But I'm just like, oh, is there something else? Like. Like, what the is going on with Steph? What the is going on with Betty? Like, the crazy girl in me, like, the crazy, dark romance girl in me wants Chet to snap and murder stuff.
But that's probably. I'm not gonna lie. Like, I want. Yeah. Like, I completely agree.
Like, I need shed to, because he has so much potential to be, like, alpha. You know what I mean? Like, there is. And he's just sitting on it. Yeah.
I'm like, baby, catch that egg already. Man up. Let's go. Yeah. So I like this.
Obviously. I like the scene. I love my Davey. I love shot. Stephanie's crazy, but I kind of like her for it as of right now, you know, Like, I think she's kind of badass, and she has real genuine villain potential.
Even more so than Betty, I feel like. Yes, I agree. I, like, I really think that could be fun to see that play out, 100%. But then we. After that scene, we go straight over to Norm and Bud, right?
I hate Bud so much. I love him so much. I completely forgot that the way Norm trapped him was just walking down the stairs. Like, when I saw that, I started laughing because I was like, I completely forgot about this. And so we see a great moment.
Well, okay, so here's my question. We see that Norm is getting a little bit of water. Just a few drips, and we can see he's pale. It's clearly this time away has started to affect him. But I need to know the timeline.
Yeah, I need to know the timeline too, because also, I'm hearing Sabrina Carpenter's when did you get hot? In my head while looking at Norm in this scene. I'm just saying. That's so funny. No, but.
But, like, okay, because I feel like the way. The way that Cooper is as a character and the. The absolute trauma that Lucy must have gone through after everything happened, my thing is now to establish that trust. It. It could not it had to have taken some amount of time.
And they are together 24 7. But it had to have been. I can't just be over the couple of days. Like, I. It has to be like a fortnight at least for me, at the very least.
And so my thing is, are we saying that Norm, we saw the rappers, so we saw that he have access to food. So it's sort of like, how long has Norm himself been stuck? I mean, people are still asking about him, so it can't be too long. But at the same time, like, nor Norm, I feel like is starting to get affected by, okay, where is the water? What is he going to do without it?
And then, okay, he ran out of food. Well, when did he like, run specifically out of food? So I'm kind of like, how, like, how deep are we? Because if they. Okay, from what I remember the observatory.
The observatory in California is in la. And at the end of episode one, we're already in New Vegas. So how long? I mean, it's not gonna just take. You know what?
I'm gonna look this up right now. Like, especially if you're on foot. Yeah. Does it take to walk? Because it takes about.
It takes less than an hour to fly from LA to Las Vegas. Also, just quick side shout out to Las Vegas. I finally got to go to Vegas this summer and I enjoyed myself so much. It was amazing. That's awesome.
It says okay. Okay. If you. It's about seven to ten days for experienced walkers Covey covering 25 to 30 miles per day. So with all the side track or you know what I mean?
Like. Right. All the obstacles. Yeah, I. I don't know. I don't know if I. I believe that it's.
It's gonna. Maybe two weeks. I think maybe two weeks is a safe bet. But even to me, I'm like, that's still relatively short. Still relatively short.
And like, you're crossing the Mojave Desert. There are death claws. Yes. There's like, there's all this kind of stuff, like all these potential obstacles there that could make it take much longer than that. And like, for me, like I said, fortnite minimum.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's again, if everything for the most part had gone right. But we already saw that Cooper was kidnapped at one point. Like, you know, send.
Anyway, okay, so we go. I love that Lucy strategically like, turned him in to these people for. Oh, I know. And they just bought it. They just bought that this bounty hunter who has a reputation just got caught by Lucy.
I mean, Lucy's Maybe they were just like, okay, I'm not going to question this cute girl. Got him in her snare. Whatever. A honey trap. Yeah.
Honey trap him.
Okay. So I love. I love the exchange between Norm and Bud when Norm's all like, so when exactly is Reclamation Day? And Bud's like, oh, when there's no one left on the surface to disagree with us. And it's like, I think everyone wants that, but that's not how the world works.
That is never going to happen. Right. So, yeah. So what Bud says next is very interesting, that they have a protocol for everything. And I think that was very intentional, at least for us as viewers.
Like, so I'm wondering if maybe in some kind of way, Barb knew or Barb had a protocol in case Cooper found out. Right. And how to respond to that. And if that is very prepared for everything, like, for every eventuality. That's literally what they base their entire business model on, is being prepared for every eventuality.
Yes. Every possibility. So I could totally see Barb having some kind of contingency plan should Cooper have found out. And if that's the case, it would make her so much more calculating. You know what I mean?
Like, yeah. And it would make me more, like, to her. To me, it would make her even more interesting as a villain. And I've already found her to be interesting from a villainous standpoint in season one. And I would.
I would love to see her just, like, really go hard and, like, lean into that villainy personally. Yeah. Yeah. 100. That's why I don't want it to.
I don't want her to be a victim. I want her to own her villain, like death. My theory with the whole, like, mind control thing on the back of the neck is that Hank intends to find a way to refine it so it no longer makes their heads explode. So he can control Lucy and make her go home, make her go back to the vault, make her be compliant and make her do what he wants her to do. Because he wants his sugar bomb back.
Yes. As well as everyone in the vault, even the people on top. Remember what Bud said, until no one disagrees with us. If everyone has a chip in the back of their neck, they're not going to disagree. Right.
Exactly. And that's, like. That's why I think he. Like, that's my theory on why he's working with those chips in New Vegas is so he can try to find a way to find that, so he can have mind control over everyone that he cares about. Controlling because in his sick, twisted way, he thinks he's protecting everybody.
Yes. Okay, so our next scene is another ghoul. See one or I guess Lucy and the ghoul. But basically Lucy is saying is like, this is I think the flea soup scene where they're walking and she's basically like asking, you know, you think my dad is going to lead you to your family, which means you think your family's still alive after 200 years. And somehow I'm the optimistic one.
And I love that question because to be honest, that's a fair question. Like, what makes him think that they're alive? And I just think it's. Cooper would know Barb and knows that Barb is still alive. Like, knows that she's cunning, she has planned for everything.
And I love certainly not some dewy eyed calf. He's, you know, he's pretty, pretty down to earth with all of his reasoning. And it has to be some kind of concrete thing that's making him think that that's not just hope on his part that he finds his family. Yeah. I look at what he's putting his body through, himself through in order to find them.
I, I mean, it's one thing to find. Want to find closure, but he is specifically seeking out them. And then I love how he just completely deflects the question. He. Because we see like a dead body and I guess the head is squished, if I remember correctly.
And he says something like, he's squished in half. Like Hank. Oh, yes, that's right. In half. Yes.
And it's like, oh, your daddy always making new friends. And I just. The line was so good. Can we just like whoever wrote that line, can we have a moment of appreciation for that? Because that was genuinely spectacular in the sickest way possible.
And I loved it. Yes. 100. And then they see this like, lady and I think she's sleeping when they, when we see her and they kind of talk like, hey, Ghoul's like, hey, she must have seen him. And.
And she's like, oh, well, I can. We can just ask. And then again, it's that Lucy goes ghoul, hangs back. And I know part of it is not everyone likes schools. There is definitely discrimination against ghouls.
And so I think because they want information, they're gonna play the game of like, he's gonna be kind of in the background and she's gonna be, you know, right there. And I love him letting her be in leadership roles and kind of expecting her to take leadership roles, especially in situations like this. Yes. And that he trusts her enough to. To ask the right questions to get the information granted.
I bet in the back of his mind, he's like, well, if it doesn't go the way that I want it, I can just threaten them. And I. I know that that's probably what he's thinking, but the fact that he. He doesn't do that initially, it says a lot about, again, the dynamic that they have come up with. You know what I mean? And the fact that he even suggests it specifically in the scene.
Hey, she must have seen him pass by. And he's. And she's. And Lucy's like, well, we can ask. We can just ask.
And there's no argument. He just lets her ask instead of going straight over to her and being like, tell me what happened or I'm gonna shoot you kind of thing, you know, like. Right. I would have loved to have seen that. But.
But this. The flea soup is so funny. I think that. That I. Full body gagged.
I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, full body. They, like, they really hit me in the ick factor with that in the best way possible. Because I was like, no. But then when she's like, oh, I have some crackers.
They're in my other pants. I died. I was like, why are we walking? Like, that was just so creative. And the fact that Lucy eats it, she doesn't fake it.
From what I see, like, she actually takes a bite. Sip of this thing. I'm like, lucy, what? And maybe, like, maybe that's why the ghoul's like, you can take this one loose. Like, you go, I'm right.
Like, let me just throw you under the bus so I don't have to eat. Yeah, exactly. Well. And so. So, yeah.
So I think that, you know, Lucy, like, the only. And the ghoul doesn't say anything until Lucy's trying to reassure her. Like, oh, I think your son and ghoul's like, no, he's dead. And I think that the implication is if Hank has this person, it's not going to be good. There's.
There's a reason for it. And so. And then again, we see. We see the. The.
The world building with this world. And it's not just the flea soup or the. It's. It's the fact that she's more concerned about her money than she is about her son, or that family is going to stab each other in the back. This is almost like a foil of Cooper and his family.
Of, like, this is the way that the world is. You cannot expect people to. You can't even expect your own family to have your back. You know? Like, she's not even sad that her son is probably dead.
She's sad that, you know, he's not getting money, right? Yeah. He owes her money. And she's probably never gonna see it. And, like, it's sad to say, but, like, I've seen some real world situations that, like, had that flavor.
Yeah. And so after they leave, you know, she points him in the right direction. Okay, I wanna. I wanna take a little bit. Like, I'm a little bit peeved at this.
Okay. We all know. We all know everyone hates ghouls. For the most part. We all know this.
And so far, I have not seen one person give Lucy about traveling with a ghoul or even ask, what the. Are someone like you doing with this over here? I need the d. I need the ghoul. That line to survive. Like, so I'm just.
Like. We saw very explicitly how ghouls were treated in season one. They were very. They made class citizens. Yeah.
And so, again, if. If. If they've established a dynamic that people recognize them or. I. I'm just curious, like, this old lady, like, why she wouldn't even, like, question it. Like, you're with him.
Like, it could have even been a comment that nobody had even responded to. But, like, I wanna. I wanted to see more of that world building, of that how Cooper gets treated and how Lucy gets treated because she is traveling with him. What are the assumptions? Because this is a vaulty in a vault suit, you know?
And so, like, I wanted more of that. And so I don't know if they didn't do that, because it would clearly be a shipping scene. It would clearly be a shipping scene, but based on the world that you created, even as a casual viewer, I'm gonna be like, wait, is everyone okay with the ghoul at this point? Like, why are we not seeing any kind of pushback on a. A cute human girl with all of her teeth in a vault suit traveling with a ghoul.
Like, where I need that. I need that conflict, intention, you know? Yes, absolutely. And, like, I think we got a teensy taste of that in the beginning scene with the whole her turning him in for caps and stuff. But, like, we didn't get, like, all of the feel of it.
And, like, just random side note about that scene, now that I'm thinking about it again, I really loved that Cooper is kind of pissed off that this gang that moved in either, like, killed or ran off. This person that he used to do business with in this place. And, like, I love how pissed he is about it. Hey, what does he call him? All you Same matching jacket.
I was like, what? How is this so cool when you say it this way? Like, I would never would have thought that because it's Walton Goggins, and Walton Goggins delivered the line. He can say the most off the wall and absolutely sell it. Yeah.
100. Okay. So I love. I love this dynamic between the ghoul and Lucy because he asks her basically, hey, what are we gonna do when we find your dad? Are we gonna.
Are you just gonna put a bullet in his ass and I'll put one in his head? Like, you know, And I love how he says, we're gonna do it like usual, implying that they established a pattern. Exactly. That they have done this before. And it's not just this one off at the beginning of the show.
They have done this before. And again, it's that fond exasperation. Like, he's not even insulting her at this point. Like, he's being sarcastic, but he's not. Like, he's also genuinely asking the question.
And he's like, you know, are you gonna make me put a bullet in his head? Yeah, like, because. Because you can only put one in his ass. Like, teamwork makes the dream work. Whatever.
I just want to know, like, how this is gonna play out. Exactly. And Lucy's like, I'm going to bring him to justice. But I'm in my head, I'm like, what is justice to you, Lucy? Like, what is your justice?
Because that man is the reason that you had to shoot your own mother. And, like, I'm gonna be pissed if that is not addressed 100 and so I love that the ghoul comes back with, do you think he deserves that? And that Lucy was like, well, I was raised to believe that that's what everyone deserves is what she's saying is justice. So people know how to conduct themselves and they don't give up hope like you say you did. But really, it's still in there.
So she's giving him shit. She's like, I know you still have hope in you. I thought that was adorable. Personally, I did, too. It's a very grumpy sunshine.
But it's going to be very interesting to see, like, what Lucy's definition of justice is, because, again, she's coming from such a black and white world and, you know, in the wasteland. And I think that's the whole Point of even like the games themselves is who decides the morals when your world has literally gone to. Like, what. What are the. You know, I like.
I personally tend to lean more Cooper's way of doing things very much Hammurabi's law. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. You make me put a bullet in my mom's head, I'm gonna put a bullet in your head. Like, that's. That's what I'm personally hoping to see Lucy do is she puts her dad the down because she realizes all the.
That he's done. I don't know that she will, but it would be satisfying for me, I think. I think if we're looking at episode one as sort of like the setup, as part of the setup, I should say, because obviously we haven't seen Max in episode one. I think that.
And again, I hope they don't Game of Thrones this. And by that I mean. And this isn't a spoiler. It's been out for almost 10 years now at this point. But basically, you had the Night King and the way that everything was set up, at least in the show, even in the books, but they haven't gotten to.
This part in the books is that Jon Snow was going to kill the Night King, and at the very last second, it turns out to be Arya Stark. And that was not earned. And so I feel with the lesson that Lucy has to learn coming especially from the ghoul. And we see that in season one, when the ghoul has to put his own friend down, right, like that, you have to put down threats like, he didn't. The.
The friend didn't have access to his meds. He was literally turning. I forget what they call it. Feral. Yeah.
And my thing is your dad at this point has gone feral. How many people has he killed? It is. And how many more people have to get hurt before you decide that you're going to learn that lesson? That happened in season one when Cooper had put Reg down.
Ex. 100%. Roger. Roger. Roger.
Yeah. And. And so, like, for me, I think that her character growth and I don't know how long. I love. I love Kyle.
Like, if I could have him stay on the show forever, I absolutely 100% would. But whenever he dies, because the way that they're setting it up, he should. He should die. It has to be. It has to be Lucy putting him down.
It has to be her, right? And I think that I would love it if there was some kind of moral choice between Cooper and her dad at some Point, like, do you save Cooper? Do you go. Or do you go after your dad or whatever it is, and she chooses Cooper. But I genuinely think that Lucy is going to have to put down her dad the same way she was forced to put down her mom.
And the fact that Cooper is giving her the option, because Hank is just. He's part of. He's part of it. And Cooper reminds me, in a way of Frank Castle from Daredevil, who just wants to kill every single person who was responsible for the destruction of his family. And he doesn't care if they had a big part or a small part.
But Hank is clearly a big part. And so the fact that Cooper would let Lucy have that option, again, there's an established dynamic between the two. Whereas season one Cooper, I think he was ready to kill Hank right there in the fucking. Didn't he shoot him? And it grazed who should wing them.
Yes, it was. It was definitely Cooper. Yeah. But for me, like, I feel like he only wounded him on purpose because he wanted Hank to lead him to his family. Yeah, 100.
100. The whole stuck pig is easier to follow thing. Yes, absolutely. I completely agree with that. And I think that, like.
But I think that the fact that Cooper is even willing to give Lucy, you. You get first dibs on this guy, but he's gonna be put down, you know, And Cooper basically tells her that when he's like, you know, I hate to break it to you. And then he says, darlin, I'm sorry, can we. Endearment. I love them so much.
Oh, my gosh, I need him to bring back little Viper. I need I. Or no little killer. Killer. Oh, my gosh, I need that.
Anyway. But the way that you were raised wasn't real. And the fact that she knows is kind of just sad. Like, she's like, I know, but at the same time, look at the alternative. And I love that she's like, I'm just trying to lead by example.
Like, I know this wasn't real, but I believe in it still, and I'm going to lead the way that I would like people to trust me. It's very golden rule, that sort of thing, you know? Right. And, like, it's a soft callback to the golden rule, motherfucker. Line.
Yeah. Oh, 100%. 100%. And then we get another flashback of Cooper talking to Moldaver. But, like, before she was Moldaver at the diner and Jeannie's.
I think she's playing a record or playing, like, a game or something like that. She's Playing Wakakami. Oh, yeah, that's right. That is right. That was hilarious to me.
Yeah. And so he's basically reporting what he saw happen. He was saying, you know, they're talking about the end of the world. And, like, they were talking about a business strategy. And she.
Moldaver, already knows all of this. And he's, like, genuinely surprised, but she's like, okay, what are we going to do about it? And, like, I thought that was interesting and also kind of annoying because I'm like, dude, this guy is just. And no offense to actors, but this dude is just like, what do you want him to do? Like, right.
You want him to do about this? He can't go to the cops. He doesn't have. Like, he's. And again, we all love Cooper Howard, but if.
If he. If he's supposed to be like the John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, like, they were very high in their heyday, but then they were not so much Clint Eastwood, but John. Like, b. Like, they're B list actors. It's not like it's, you know, Clark Gable over here.
You know, like, it's. It. So it's like, what. What exactly does she want him to do? You know, Like, I don't understand that.
And she knows how deep Malt Tech's infrastructure goes and all the connections they have with robco and everywhere else. Like, if Cooper was to go to the authorities, literally, like, they would probably just have somebody off him. Yeah. And I do. I do.
Like, okay, so I get what she's saying. Well, you're famous. You can, you know, be in rooms that I can't. You can meet people that I can't. And then they bring up Robert House.
And I. I do understand that dynamic. I do. But I think that this is too complex to just be like, oh, hey, I just heard my wife talk about bombing. Everyone. Let me go make a meeting with Robert House.
Like, don't you think Robert House is going to be like, this is an interesting little meeting that I have? You know? Like, I just. I feel like. I don't know.
Like, I get where it's coming from. I get that this has to happen for the plot to move forward, but I just also feel like, how is Cooper Howard going to get. I mean, granted, maybe they truly believe that. Maybe Vault Tec truly believes that Cooper Howard is 100% on board with this. But we know that Betty.
Like, we know that Betty and him have argued over it. So Betty knows he's not comfortable with it. And if Vault Tech has, like, you know, this, like, a plan for everything, then they already have a plan for Cooper not being ready for it. And Betty has already seen it. So if she's super business oriented, other people are going to realize, hey, Cooper might not be on, like, as on board as we all think he is.
And we see that at the very beginning of episode one, season one, when he's literally has to do horse, like, kids birthday parties. Like, you know what I mean? Like, he had his downfall. So it's a very much oh, how the mighty have fallen moment. Right.
So it's sort of like, I don't know, but. But we did get some background, a little bit more information on Robert House.
So he's. He is building his own missile system with enough firepower to follow through on Betty's proposal. So it's. She's implying that Robert House is going to be the. The actual person that presses the button.
And Cooper's like, oh, do you want me to spy on him? And, like, m is like, your wife's going to Vegas because she's going to sell this stuff to. To Robert House, and you need to go on that trip. And I'm just kind of like, how the do you know this before Cooper does? Like, why aren't you doing.
Like, if you have all of this information, why aren't you doing all of this stuff? You know, so. Right. Like, why not, like, why are you trying to turn an actor into your own personal spy? And, like, why are you not stepping up into that role yourself?
I know that, like, you say you can't be in those places that he can be in, but why? Right? Give me the why. Yeah, I'm so. It's kind of like, you know, season one was so solid that I will give them the benefit of the doubt.
I just feel that this particular scene seemed very much like, I'm gonna say this so wrong, like, days ex machina or whatever, like, where it just feels like this had to happen for the plot to move forward. Yeah. But it didn't quite sell me on that sort of thing. You know what I mean? Because Cooper, even with all of this information on Betty, he's ready, I think, to.
To leave her. He wants to go to Bakersfield, but that doesn't mean he's ready to get involved into, you know, he just wants an espionage. Yeah, exactly. And so I'm just kind of like, you know, why would you put this person in? Granted, yes, he went to war, but not as a spy.
He went to war as a sold soldier. Like, why are you willing to Put all of this stuff on it. And if it's the access, fine. But then she said specifically, well, you're famous. You can get in.
But they're going specifically because Betty is selling Fusion. So now I'm like, okay, well, like, I don't think even if he's famous or not, Cooper's not going to be able to go to that meeting. I mean, granted, though, he is the face of Vault tec. I don't know. I don't know how they're going to do it.
So is he gonna have to use the damn bug that's in her pip boy again? Or, like, how are they gonna have to play that with him spying on Barb? Because there's no way that they're gonna let somebody who is just an actor in a meeting with actual real, basically highly classified information. Yeah, 100. Like, just.
It's not like he was at the meeting that Barb was or Betty was where. Where she's dropping the bombs. Just because he's the face of Baltec doesn't give him access to classified information. And so I'm just kind of like, okay, it's one thing if it was like, okay, he want. He's gonna go schmooze Robert House at, like, a casino.
Maybe there's some kind of party or something like that. But the way that it was set up, I know, again, we. The audience needs the information. I just felt like it's not very believable for me for, like, someone. Cooper clearly doesn't want to do anything.
Have anything to do with it. All he cares about is Jane taking Janie, going to Bakersfield and getting in a Vault, you know, But I, again, I do like the thought of.
He's played the actor of you have to do the right thing, you know, And I think even isn't. Wasn't there one of the movies where, like, one of his movies where he doesn't get with the girl because he has to do the right thing or something like that? Like, he leaves town at the end because he's a cow. Am I true? This could have been a fanfic.
I don't even remember, but it was kind of like, I know his whole role is to find his humanity again and to do the right thing. And he. He hates Lucy because she's everything that he represents, that he reminds him of himself. And so part of him had to want to do the right thing. But now I'm like, after watching him grab Janie and basically, like, talk to Moldaver, like, what the.
Do you want me to do about this? I don't see him having any sort of responsibility to essentially the world. You get what I'm saying? Like, he already. I feel like his only responsibility is to his daughter.
Yeah. 100. Like, he. He already. He already served his country.
Like, he. You know, like, I just. I don't see the. Like, it's not like he's Captain America over here, and that's disrespect to Cooper. I don't want him to be Captain America, but I need to know, like, what is the trigger that gets him?
He just heard that his wife is willing to drop bombs across the. Across the country, across the world, whatever. And he's still not. Like, that is not enough to be like, I have to stop this. His first initial reaction is, grab my daughter and go.
Go to safety. And, like, if we're comparing Cooper to Marvel characters and taking a little sidetrack, I feel like he and the Winter Soldier are very much, like, on the same level with each other with a lot of the things that they're going through. And I would love, like, absolutely adore getting to see Cooper get some kind of redemption arc like Bucky did in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier, personally. Yeah. And I. I'm almost positive that he will.
I think that it's being set up for that, but I. Again, I need to see that. I need to see that whole, like, again, one of the reasons season one ended so strongly, because we don't know how Cooper was going to react. Well, now at season two, episode one, he reacted by grabbing his daughter. And I do like that.
I love that that's his first reaction. But now my question is, okay, but initially, the whole issue with Lucy is that she is just so ideal that she believes not only the good in her father, but the good in everybody. And we see that Cooper doesn't actually feel that way, because if he did, he would have gone to Moldaver and been like, this is happening. This is wrong. We need to do something about it.
I'll do whatever you think I can do. In this scene, he's resisting it completely. He's like, what do you want me to do about it? He's ready to take his daughter to Bakersfield. So.
So my thing is more like, again, I feel like it's almost like a contradiction of maybe an assumption that we all felt, but it'll be interesting to see, like, okay, what actually gets him to spy on Robert? Or is it just. Is it just whatever? Is it just. I don't know, like, what Moldaver says, well, just go play nice with your wife.
Or you know, I guess maybe like her little line about, okay, well, when the world goes down in flames, at least you'll know your hands are clean. But I don't know if that's enough for me. Like, just from a writing perspective, I don't know if that's enough. If maybe it was said by someone he really respected, respects, and looks up to, but he. I don't think him and M really like each other at this point, you know.
Right. And they certainly don't necessarily see eye to eye. No. So then we see, you know, Barb comes home and Cooper clearly didn't go to Bakersfield. So he is going to do that.
And I, again, I wish I would have seen like, what convinces him to sort of play this part, you know? Right. Like, what was the decision making process here? Yeah. So then we jump back to Ghoul and Lucy and again we get sidetracked.
Daddy took a detour and there's a vault.
And you know, they actually discuss like, oh, you've been in a lot of vaults. And he actually, this is what I'm talking about. Like a little bit of like, I don't want to say vulnerability, but he actually has conversations with her. He actually reveals a little bit about himself, like, yeah, I have been in a lot of vaults. And you know, you know, he has his ghoul humor.
Like every time I step foot in one of these concrete shoe boxes, you know, blah, blah, blah. But he says, I gotta make peace with the fact that I might finally learn what happened to my wife and my daughter, whether they be alive, dead, or something far worse. And so that's a really interesting line because it's almost like he doesn't want to know and yet he's driven by finding them at the same time. Yeah. How did, what did you.
What did you take away from that particular line? Like, the thing that hung with me mostly is like that self loathing and still viewing him through. Viewing himself through a lens of like, I am a monster with something far worse thing. Yeah, yeah. You know, obviously when Lucy's like, you know, I know about the experiments.
And he's like, well, Vault 4 is the best case scenario. And she's like, well, to be fair, it was a little weirder than the one I came from. I love that he kind of threw Shady Sands in her face with that. Oh, yeah, 100. And she can't say anything because she knows that that's true, you know, But I thought that that was interesting.
Just that he. The fact that he even admits that much to her, that he' I have been in a lot of vaults. And he basically says every time I step into one, I have to realize that I might come face to face with what happened to my wife and my kid. And I feel like for Cooper, that's a little bit of a vulnerability. Like, that's essentially the truth.
That's not him deflecting or making a smart ass comment or even lying and saying something else. Like, I think that that is genuinely how he feels. And the fact that he, again, without missing a beat, he tells Lucy this. That is again, that big deal. And this is why it's again, hard for me to believe that only two weeks have passed, because I feel like it would have taken a lot more time for the ghoul to feel comfortable with Lucy in order to even just say that much.
Based on the characterization from season one. Absolutely. But then they talk about, okay, is the dad down there? And he, you know, he says he. The trail has him going in and going out.
And the ghoul actually says, I'm curious why he even came. And then he looks over at Lucy like, aren't you a little curious, too? And so now Cooper's getting sidetracked with his own, like, what is he thinking might be in there? Is it related to his family? You know what I mean?
Like, I'm just curious because that's Cooper saying, do you want to go down and explore? And we know that Lucy will, but it's just interesting coming from Cooper, so. And I felt like this was an interesting setup that Hank did, maybe just to slow them down a little and get them off of his heels and like, purposely to sidetrack them and maybe get inside Lucy's head a little bit and, you know, like, tell her, you know, go home. I'm gonna fix everything. Right?
And that's like the him saying he's gonna fix everything definitely ties in with the mind control chips. Yes, absolutely. So then we have Reg. We. We kind of go over to Reg and we.
We have their little group and it's just so funny. And they talk what's interesting. And again, Chelsea, tell me your thoughts on this. Basically, this entire scene is talking about, okay, it's not your fault that your parents were or are related. And they talk about it.
And, you know, like, I know I. What it's like to wonder if people look down their noses at you based on your family tree. A regular person can have an ingrown toenail. And it's just an ingrown toenail. But we have to wonder if it's because our genes are somehow broken.
Broken because of the incest. If I am somehow broken. And so then you have this couple who are clearly related. They both are redheads, and they. They're like.
They want to change it so they can do inbreeding in the vault. And they're like, no, you can't do that. But I'm just curious, like, what your take is on, like, why this particular scene is here. And Reg even says, sometimes I wonder if it was my father's fault because he fell in love with his cousin, my mother. I wonder.
Oh, this is Marianne. No, it's not Reg, but Reg is talking to her. I just wonder if it. There's a biological connection. And Reg is like, I didn't study genetics.
And she's like, well, okay. And Reg is like, it certainly could be his fault. And that Marianne says, I always felt my mother viewed me as a rival, which mirrored her relationship with her own mother, who was in love with my f. Her fifth cousin. All fifth cousins were fourth cousins to the second cousin. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then we get the. It's all over but the crying song playing. And so I'm just curious, like, why that particular scene is in there, because I feel like it's kind of random and it took away from a norm scene or even a Max scene or more Lucy and Cooper or a flashback scene. I just. I'm like, why?
Like. Like, is incest going to directly affect Barb or Janie in whatever vault they're in? Like, is this going to lead to something or was this just a sidetrack nod to, like. Yes, there obviously has to be inbreeding and incest in the vaults. Right?
Because we know Lucy doesn't have to deal with that because her dad is not from the vault, and he obviously did not pick his sister or anyone like that. I. I saw theories that Max. Max's mother or Max's father was. So this is interesting. I'm gonna probably get this wrong, but I saw a theory that Max's father was originally in the.
No. That somehow Max and Lucy are related and so they could be pulling a Star wars on us. And that. That potentially that. Oh, gosh, I wish I had kept it because it was so interesting, but basically that obvious that they ran away to Shady Sands and that potentially he was like, he is the one who helped get them out, get Lucy's mom out of the thing.
And. But essentially, like, nothing. Nothing happened. You know, like, no, the feelings weren't there. I don't know.
They run into Moldava. I don't know what happens. But my thing is, like, I just. It's just such an interesting scene. And obviously, they talk about family dynamics and how, like, almost like, the sins of the father.
Like, can I blame my father for him falling in love with somebody else? Right. And I just find that interesting because it's almost like, okay, can. Does. Does Cooper get any blame for being in love with.
With Betty, or does, you know, Lucy's father get any blame for being in love with Lucy's mom to the point where he's willing to bomb Shady Sands to punish her to get her whatever? Right. I don't know. And so it's sort of like. I don't know if this has a direct relation to the plot or if this is more of, like, we're gonna interweave the theme of this particular season, but it's just so random that I felt like it had to be there for a reason.
You know what I mean? Yeah. That would be like, if Max and Lucy are related to each other, like, it's going to be 1970s Leia, Luke shippers feelings all over again. You know, fun fact. My daughter Madison is a Luke and Leia shipper, obviously, until she finds out that they're brother and sister.
But she was very upset about this dynamic, and she's. Anyway, so we get back over to Bud and Norm, and what's interesting, and I think Norm does this initially as a distraction, but he's like, what was my dad like? And Bud talks about how he was ambitious, and, you know, I almost caught a vibe of, like, maybe Hank was too ambitious for Bud's taste, and Bud had to keep him in a certain place or, like, at a certain level so he could remain above him and not let Hank be too upwardly mobile. And I think that we get another taste of that when Hank is on the radio at the end of the episode. Yeah.
And obviously radioing Bud. Yeah.
And then, you know, they talk about, if you eat this, it's quick, and, like. Like, it's gonna. It's toxic. It seems like a good idea, but just don't do it. And it would make my life so much easier if you just get in your dad's pod or just die.
And then Norm's like, you're right. I only have two rational choices, but plenty of irrational ones. And I thought that was really. I liked that I was, like, such a genius line. Like, everything that Norm did in this episode, I Thought was brilliant.
And I'm very Team Norm right now. Very much. And then he's like, all of your plans that you've been planning for 200 years. Too bad. So sad.
And he's all Bud's like, wait, I need that to threaten you. Don't do it. I'm like, norm, why didn't you just do this in the first place? Like, right. Like, why didn't you do this right after he trapped you?
But we get some more information of, like, okay, the cryogenic people. They're only supposed to come out once every 30 years. This is going to be chaos. And I love this line from Norms. Like, plans are hard.
Chaos, though. Chaos is easy. And it just was, like, such a throwback for me for the Joker, like. Like from Christopher Nolan's the Dark Knight. And just, like, how he just wants everyone to live in chaos and that.
Not that I think Norm is necessarily the Joker, but there was definitely a vibe, though, and I very much enjoyed that vibe of just, like, you and all your plans. Yeah. And that's great. And again, it's like, I really kind of wanted more of a catalyst for Norm to, like, get that, because it just felt very random. Like, I'm just like, why now, out of all time, when you could have just smacked him before?
But I do like where it's going. I'm. Again, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. They have written a very solid first season. So let's see where this one is going.
So then we get. We go back to Lucy and the Ghoul, and we get more, you know, Cooper's, like, more matching jackets. And. And I think they're communist jackets because Lucy says, why would Vault TEC allow communists in one of their vaults? And Ghoul says, I wouldn't be so sure that they did.
Which I, again, completely agree with him.
And it's almost like a brainwashing thing, like they're speaking Mandarin. You have the English sort of narrator kind of doing it, like the whirly hypnosis thing going in the background. And it's definitely like a mind control experiment that was probably done by Robert House, if I had to guess. Yes. And Lucy's like, these are Americans.
The vault turned them into communists.
And, you know, they're looking for things. You know, they finally find something. But the. Her dad removed the drive. So he was there for a reason.
He grabbed something. We just don't. I think it was. Lucy was gonna go in to see if she could find the family. Right.
To look up the names possibly, or something like. Or. Or. I don't know. Maybe that was a fanfic.
I don't. I don't even know anymore. But she finds out that they removed the drive. I'm wondering if he needed the drive to get into where he gets into vault tech. Yes, that makes sense.
That makes sense. Especially if this vault was specifically designed by Robert House, so obviously. Yeah. And then we have the sunburn man, who I think we're assuming is the flea soup Sky's son, Right? Is.
Yeah, Like, I think it's the flu soup lady's son. Yeah. And so he's like, hello there, sugar bomb. And, you know, obviously the ghoul calls him a guinea pig. And Lucy's like, well, what do you want?
And the He. The guy says, just go home. Go home. And then, bam, the head squatters. And I love how they're both covered in blood.
And Cooper's just like, you ever seen your dad use one of these before? And she's like, no. And I. Again, he's like, are you gonna take his advice? And Lucy is.
Again, it's like, he won't stop hurting people. He's like, yeah, no, I love that. Like, I love that exchange. Because she's coming to this realization again that, like, yeah, her dad is not gonna stop hurting people, no matter how much she wishes he would. And that's gonna end up having to come into play with her putting him down later.
I feel like a hundred percent. And then she's like, well, then we better get going. And, you know, we have the ghoul sign.
And then what's interesting, obviously, I think this is the last scene where we get to Hank, and, you know, he's getting dressed like he's going to work. And he obviously takes a lot of pride in his appearance. Kyle McLaughlin is amazing. I love him. Played that so.
Oh, my gosh, so good. It was like, deliciously evil self enjoyment. I. I loved it. And the song was so Working for the man by Roy Orbison. Yes.
Because the. I think there's the lyrics. Hang on. I want to make sure I'm not tripping out. Oh, yeah, because so what's so interesting is there's the lyric section says, well, the boss man's daughter sneaks me water every time her daddy's down the line.
She says, meet me tonight. Love me, love, love me. Right? And everything is gonna be fine. And so I found that so fascinating because again, you can look at these.
Like, you can hear the song. Oh, working for the man. We see Hank is literally working. He's like, okay, I'm going to fix these for you, you know, to, to House. And on the surface, the song is just about working for the man he's working for, you know, Robert House.
But when you go in and you read these lyrics, like, I don't know, I just feel like that's too on the nose for what's going on between Lucy and Cooper. Like, like, I don't know. I don't know. That's just me. Again, it also gives me, like, is Cooper gonna get taken prisoner for real at some point?
Anxiety. I, I, you know, like, because I don't know. I think that's so interesting because I again, like, I would love to see Lucy at a point where she has to pick between her ideals and everything she's grown up with. And then Cooper, who is everything that she shouldn't want, shouldn't, like, shouldn't, you know, that is not who she is. But then she winds up picking Cooper because not.
And this is my biggest thing for her, for her character growth. It's not because it's the right thing to do, but it's because she genuinely picks up fix him and it's like, actually cares about him. Exactly. And that she agrees with maybe not everything, but, like, that there are certain cases, like with her mom, with Roger, you have to put someone down. And so, yeah, so I think that, like, when I was on Tumblr, I saw some people like, oh, they didn't like the line about my wife and daughter.
But I'm just kind of like, I think, again, we haven't seen enough flashbacks to understand the breakdown of the marriage, the breakdown of what happened to Cooper and Janie. Like, why the last time we see Janie, Cooper is with Janie as the bomb. So how did they get separated unless they forced Jeannie away from Cooper? I mean, I don't know, because my thing as of right now, like, what if they tranq darted him and just almost took right away? That's almost what I'm thinking happened.
Or because there's no way Cooper lets Janie go without a fight. Without a fight. And the only, only, only, only thing that maybe he would is if Betty promised that she would be safe and that he trusted her not because of love, but because wherever Betty is, it, it will have to be safe. So if Janie is with Betty, it would be safe. Unless maybe they, I mean, at this point, they're divorced.
So Betty must know that Cooper knows something. And so maybe it's something where Cooper had to Give Janie up for her. For her own body. Yeah, exactly. But even if that's the case, I don't see how you recover a marriage.
Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm trying to look at it from every aspect, from a writer's perspective, even from a Cooper Betty shipping perspective. And I'm like, with that kind of betrayal, I'm not sure you can salvage that. I don't think that you can. And so, again, unless they retcon this, where Betty is a victim, I don't see Cooper ever choosing to go back with his wife.
Even if there's 200 years between them. Even if Betty and Jean, like, my thing is also, like, why would the. I think Cooper is trying to find answers, and I just don't know. Like, again, if. If Betty and Janie are totally normal, we're in their cryogenic space.
What about right now, right in this moment would cause them to open up. Do you get what I'm saying? Like, would cause him to get out. Like, what would be the cause of that now? Unless Norm triggers everybody coming out, like, all over multiple vaults or whatever.
Right. Which would be brilliant, honestly. And that would make sense. But I'm just kind of like, I need more of the pieces before I can give an honest opinion about even the writing trajectory. Not to mention the, like, ship trajectory.
I feel like on the surface, all the shippers are happy. Like, we get dynamics. A lot of positive things happen between Ghoul and Lucy in this episode. It's just more of, like. And again, based on the interviews, both Walton and.
Oh, my gosh, I'm calling her Lucy in my head. Ella. Yeah, they. They have both said, okay. They're like a married couple who's going to change who.
And I really like that dynamic because it means that we're gonna see a lot of them, potentially. We're gonna see character development between them. But I don't. I don't know it. I just don't know yet.
Does that make sense? Like, I feel like episode one, season one, I was all in. I was ready for it. Like, that meet cute. That setup.
I was ready. And with this one, and I know it's so much harder with the sequel series. Like, you have to establish relationships pretty fast. You have to get the plot moving. I just don't know.
I'm iffy on the whole, like, taking the character's autonomy away. I'm iffy about, like, you know, again, Norm deciding he's going to do that at that moment. And I just feel like a Lot more of plot devices were used for this versus a natural, organic cause and effect setup. Right. What about you?
What's your take? I, like, I just need more information at this point. Like, I'm very much in a place of, like, we did get some great information, but it wasn't enough information for me to make any kind of call at this point. And I think we got good scenes. Like, we got a good dynamic.
This is everything that we want as shippers. But I think that they cheated us out of that learning process that I think is so important to. Even if it wasn't going to be a romantic relationship, just even in a buddy cop, like, everywhere from, you know, like, what's that Mel Gibson movie from, like the 80s with him? And, you know, I'm talking about, like, is it Lethal Weapon or something? Lethal Weapon.
Lethal Weapon, Rush Hour, even Shanghai Noon. Honestly, Wilson and Jackie Chan. Yeah. Which shout out to Goggins being in that movie. Of course.
No, but that, that's my thing is just like, I want to see the day. That is part of, like, if you're looking at structure, the fun and games of this relationship and whether it's platonic, romantic, it doesn't matter because these two are going to completely change each other. And so this is the central relationship to the show. You don't have to ship it, but at the very least you can under. You could argue that point.
And I felt like we got cheated out of that initial dynamic of, oh, you know, like. Because it's sort of like, yeah, we saw Lucy and the Ghoul initially where he had a rope around her neck and he's dragging her through the wasteland. But this was a completely different situation. She had just shot her mom. And it's sort of like, I wanted to know, how is he going to react to it?
How is she going to react to it? How do they start to trust each other? Because now they have the same goal. And I just. I really.
I wanted that. Again, regardless of whether the ship's canon. Go ahead. I'm hoping that we get filled in through flashbacks or more like context, dialogue drops like as and things like that. As we're going.
Yeah, no, that's a. That's. It did not start where I wanted it to start at all. So, I mean. Yeah.
But other than that, I think we're both in agreement that we're giving this the benefit of the doubt. Absolutely. Maybe a little worried about where it could go, but we're willing to ride with it. I'm. I'm willing to ride.
Like I'm. I'm ride or die for this show till the end, no matter who Lucy ends up with. I would prefer it to be the ghoul, but I don't know that Amazon has the testicular fortitude to actually go there. But I'm hoping they do. But even if they don't, like, I fully expect and want for the plot and everything that happens to support whoever she ends up with.
I don't want it to be on shitty scaffolding, you know, I want it to actually be baked into the story. Agreed. I think that, honestly, I think that if you were gonna do just a mainstream, very subtle subplot romance, why would you pick Fallout out of all the things? Like, if you, you have to, if you're gonna have balls to pick a show like Fallout where like, literally we get a chicken in the first season. Like, I just feel like you have to be all in.
You can't be. I'll put in a chicken and I'll blow someone's head up and we're gonna talk about incest. Because Lucy, literally, if Lucy can her cousin, why can't she. The ghou. Why?
Like, I just. If you're gonna be all in, just be all in or else don't do a show like Fallout where can anonymity. Anything is possible. Anything is possible. And that is one of the draws to the game and to the show because I have not seen anything like Fallout.
Like, even in the post apocalyptic shows like the Walking Dead or the Last of Us, you still have very, almost like nuclear relationships. Like Joel and I don't even know the girl's name. It's very father daughter. And I saw this, this post on Tumblr of like, why does everything have to have some kind of nuclear fault, like nuclear family relationship? Why does everything have to be father, daughter or brother, sister or sister, sister or whatever?
Sometimes relationships are like deeper or like, like more than just that, you know, so sometimes found family is better than the family you're born into. And I very much hope that that's where they're going with Fallout. That's what I'm hoping too, because like Walton said, he has a daughter, but she has a father. And even though at this point she knows her father is not good, he was a good father to her. And whether we like, you know, Hank or not, he.
And you could say, well, he lied. Blah. Okay, true, like, maybe, yeah, like, sure, she. He killed her mom, but like as a. Just a.
Between a father and a daughter, that was a Good relationship. She's not looking for a father figure at this point. She doesn't need a father figure. Like, so it's kind of like, I just don't. I really hope that they're pushing the Max and Lucy thing to try to be.
To try to, like, do a gotcha. To try to be like, huh, you thought we were going this way, but we're really going this way, kind of. I absolutely hope it's misdirection also. Yeah. Just because I think the dynamic between Dane and Max has so much potential.
Again, even if it's not romantic. Like, I want to see more of that friendship. I want to see more of that partnership now that Max is a completely different person. And how does that affect his relationship in the Brotherhood's eyes also. Right.
Even though it's a lie. And again, I think that his character arc is like, you have to overcome these lies. You have to figure out who you really want to be in a world like this. And to a degree, that's Lucy's, except she's not actually lying, but her whole life was built on lies. And again, you cannot.
These two people cannot change each other. To me, it's just boring. And maybe this is why I shy away from a lot of canon ships, because for some odd reason, you have a lot of writers who think, oh, it's the same. It's the same. They.
They have the same problem, so this is going to bond them together. But it's like, that's so boring to read or to watch. Like, I want to see different problems, but that affect the character. Like, I. You get what I'm saying?
Like, I. That's what I want to see. I want the kind of stuff that we got in Manacled, honestly. Like, I want the Draco and Hermione. I want the conflict, I want the angst, I want the drama.
Like, I don't want two people who are so much alike. Like, it just doesn't. It doesn't hit for me. Like. Right.
And if I'm supposed to ship these two, then you have to do a better job as a writer to make it more interesting for me. And it's, again, unbelievable. Right? And we aren't the only two people saying that. I think, again, that if the interviews are asking people about this couple, this is the more popular I'm gonna get for saying this.
But I think it is the more popular ship. I think that everybody sees this. And so it's like. And I know that people aren't stupid. I know that they see it too.
Like, they have to know that they see this, or else Walton is not going to be like, this is not father daughter. So it'll be interesting to see what happens and. And what they do. I mean, we get an episode Wednesday, so we will see. Looking forward to that same.
So, anyway, final thoughts, Chelsea.
I'm just, like, I'm ready for next week. I'm ready to get, like, get back into things, see where Norm's at, where Lucy and the ghoul are at. Like, I'm very, like, I need it to be Wednesday right now. Yeah. I. I'm so irritated that they didn't drop all eight episodes at once like they did with season one.
Oh, I know. I would have loved to just be able to, like, bulldoze through and binge this whole thing in one go. 100. Yeah, I think I'm. I'm right there with you.
It's sort of like, I want to be excited, but I can't let myself be excited until I get more information and. Right. Like, I am terrified to be excited. Like, I want Ghoulsy so badly, but I am so scared to death that we're gonna get on this ship and, like, and if they spuffy us, I will be done with Amazon prime forever. Yeah.
Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I'm just. I don't want them to true blood us, either.
Like, Lucy. No, Lucy better not pick some rando that we've never even heard of. Or, like, God forbid she ends up with herself. I'm gonna be so mad about that, too. Like, look, I don't need her to end up with anyone, but if she's ending up with herself because she wants to be some strong, independent woman who doesn't need him, like, she off.
Like, I need her to be. If that's your reason, then put her with some. I would rather have her with Max and hate that than being by. Like, there are so many. There's just.
Just put Lucy in the goal together. Like, just put loose. Like, just do that or. Or have her by herself. But Cooper's by her himself, and they're still in each other's lives, so there's a potential.
Like, I'm fine with that ending. Like, what they ended up having to do for us with Mace when Next Star bought the CW and ruined my show. Yeah, but we don't talk about that, do we? No. I'm still bitter.
I'm bitter as hell. And Lake is bitter, too, because he loved that show, too. I hate. I hate. Just find people who know how to write like it's not that.
And if you're gonna do romance, treat it seriously like we're not an afterthought. Romance is not an afterthought. The writers got backed into a corner so hard with having to pivot in the last four episodes of season four, and it just really, really sucked all the way around. And nextar. Yeah, no, I. I hear you.
So I think those are our final thoughts. Chelsea, what are we asking for people in the comments? Ah, what are your theories on what's gonna happen when everyone thaws out now that Norm has. Has thought everybody out? Drop it in the comments and let us know.
And, oh, I have one too. And speaking of Norm, if you could write his love interest who, like, what kind of love interest would it be? Like, give me a trope for him. I want a trope. Chelsea, who's your trope for?
Norm? Like, I really want to see Norm in. In an enemies to lovers situation just because he's such a sarcast that it would be so beautiful and someone needs to put him in his place, but who's also super competent and smart. Yes, that would be great. I would love that.
Okay. All right, well, thanks for hanging out with us, you guys. We will see you next week. Take care. Bye.