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So I'm sitting down with Garrett, which owns... Gosh, we've known each other for a long time, but you, you're kind of like my favorite person at DEF CON- Aw...
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because you have Hacker Warehouse, you have Hacker Mindsets, you're super available for a lot of people, but you facilitate badge life in so many ways.
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So this is like one of like the great unknowns that most people don't realize is that selling a badge at DEF CON is remarkably difficult. Because it's not even just like, "Oh, I can walk around in a backpack."
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You're not allowed to walk in a backpack and sell them out of your backpack. N- not because, "Oh, DEF CON's gonna come down." It's, it's a legitimate like Nevada law. Yeah, that's not really a DEF CON thing.
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That's like a Nevada like- That-... coming down on- That's IRS thing. Yeah.
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[laughs] So like because of that, it's remarkably difficult, and if you do sell a badge, you can't sell them or, like you lose your con because now you're trying to like p- paddle or do all this Yeah, the interactivity upon like individual badge makers like trying to distribute, uh, like the...
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There's a whole creative art side of it, um, which a lot of any badge makers are very successful, and that's what they love and do.
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Uh, and then it comes to the point of like selling it and the business side of it, and a lot of overhead comes to actually distributing, sales, tax, logistics. With stealing line, logistics, knowing where to buy 'em.
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Yeah. So you sell a lot of independent badge makers badges at Hacker Warehouse. Yeah, I mean, like I came from the community itself. Like I've been c- attending DEF CON since DEF CON 6.
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Uh, so I've been attending for a while, and I've gone from like human to press to media to, uh, vendoring. So I've kinda sprinkling around every, uh... Eventually, I'll get to gooning at one point.
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But ultimately, it's like, you know, supporting the community and helping people raise up and, you know, supporting other independent creators so that they could actually sustain that business because they get so overwhelmed upon that business side of like exactly what you said on- Well, and, and what you're saying, it sounds like so grandiose.
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Like, "I'm helping the community," and whatnot, but like this isn't like I'm saying this. It's we've witnessed this. Yeah.
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You've been part of the community, and this is like what, what I think often is missed when people walk through the vendor area. They're like, "Oh, it's, it's people trying to capitalize on DEF CON."
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It's like you sell the stuff from DEF CON. You've sold the cables, and, and heck, half Hack 5 stuff- Mm-hmm... you're distribu- So you, you're very much part of the community.
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Anytime someone comes out with one, you're there. You run the badge makers' Discord and all of these other- Yeah... pieces to connect really all these, all these people who wanna find their tribe.
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This is a place they can find it. Yeah, I appreciate that comment because that's, I, I guess, a underseen thing of like I'm working in the background type stuff.
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But like to your point, even Hacker Warehouse, that was like part of the origins of like, uh, that type of store didn't exist when I started in pen test and red team.
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And like, I was like, "If I have this problem, everyone else is gonna have this problem, so why don't I just solve that?" And- Which is very much a hacker thing of like solving your own problems and- Yeah, so- Yeah...
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solving your own problems and then giving away all the secrets because I remember when we, when we first met, you were, you were between a content creation and this and- [laughs]...
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Hacker Warehouse, and then you're like, "And also, I'm writing a book."
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[laughs] Yeah, so that was, uh, like three years of my life, uh, certainly fun, of trying to distill the technical hacking pen test red teaming like philosophy and methodologies, uh, into a way that anyone could adopt them, uh, into life.
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So it's not a technical book at all. Uh, like the stories- Well, it, it-... and the i- information in there- It's just taking... I'm sorry. I'm totally like- Yeah, please... it's your book, and I'm like hijacking.
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It's all good. Let me tell you about your own book. [laughs] I, I just... Let me start here. It's first, it's, it's called Hacker Mindset. It's the five-step methodology for cracking the system and achieving your dreams.
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Sounds grandiose, but the tr- the truth is it's how do you take all the, all the voodoo that is done at DEF CON- Mm-hmm...
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like pen testing and red team and lateral movement and reviewing systems and creating systems, and how do you take all the technical prowess you have and then take, take your success in the technical realm and move it towards business- Yep...
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life, organization- Mm-hmm... entrepreneurship. Yep. And that's what the book is about. Yep. And also, I'm gonna say it because it's not on the book. It's it was a national bestseller- [laughs]... which is freaking cool.
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Like being able to go, "Oh, it's on, it's on the national bestsellers list," like- Yeah, that was pretty amazing. Like I was super happy about that.
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I'm also super happy that it got translated, and it's in international countries. And like seeing it on a bookshelf that's like [laughs] different language than yours is like absolutely wild. That's trippy.
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I mean, the, the, the funniest part too is when it ha- Like it's one thing to be like, "Oh, I wrote an Amazon bestseller." Like the category is reverse engineering Python modules or something like...
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where it's like this narrow, narrow niche. Niche of a niche, yeah. You're like, "I got nothing." Like this is, this is national USA Today bestseller list. Like that is, that is a cool accomplishment. Thanks.
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Yeah, I wrote it for, uh, to be like a personal development, professional development, seeing that line of, uh, try- really trying to distill all those, uh, technical hacking things and so that really everyone could apply it.
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So- In which that scope is a little bit, a lot wider than DEF CON audience and just computing, uh, audience, so yeah. Well, I would actually say it's, it's relevant to many aspects- Mm... of DEF CON.
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Like well, let's take badge life. Yep. Like exactly what you're saying. You're selling, you're selling badges. Yep. It's thinking, okay, how do you turn, how do you turn that to a business?
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You're, you're effectively in some ways giving away the secret of h- [laughs]... here's how I created Hacker Warehouse. Yep. So in looking at it, there's a lot of pieces in here. Gi- give me a high level.
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Like give me a practical example of something that's in the book- Mm-hmm... that w- would kinda give someone a taste of it. Yeah. Uh, so a easy example is like reverse engineering, so hacking everyone, uh, you-
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CTS side, there's technical hackers taking apart code, um, and figuring out, like, how to bypass systems or figuring out how to, like, gain, like, extra privilege or whatever.
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For- at a practical level, uh, that might look like looking at it from an end state and then figuring out the pieces of how that system works, and then figuring out a way to, like, obtain status or obtain the goal that you're actually trying to work towards.
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So it's really like looking at that system and slowly taking it bit by bit and working your way through so that you're, uh, either, A, understanding the system so much that you know it better than the authors do.
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That's more at a technical level. But at a practical level, it's understanding that system so that you could get to your goal a lot quicker. Well, let's go with, like, a really, really practical example. Sure.
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Like, one of the ones you talk about is salary. Mm-hmm. Like, money. Yep. Like, how do you make more money in your, your career? Yeah. And what- So- What was one of the pieces of advice you gave about that?
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Uh, yeah, so, like, for myself, my, my family upbringing is, like, w- everyone's kind of, like, government type base, uh, civil servant type oriented.
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So I always was kinda taught to, like, stay on safe jobs, work in government, do your role, like, and you'll be, like, slowly progressing and, and that type of thing. Uh, and that, that was, like, the safe option, right?
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Uh, but if you really look at it, like, you get major promotions and major, like, salary bumps when you actually switch jobs, uh, whether that's, like, internally, you're always going for promotions, or you're actually going to another count- uh, company and you're elevating that way.
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So, like, if you're essentially doing the math on, like, are you getting small promotions every here and there, or are you taking, like, big promotions in, like, every few years?
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And if you actually chart that out, like, over, you know, like, a 10-year gap, like, if you're going slow and steady versus, like, if you're taking major jumps, uh, that is a big discrepancy from that side.
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So it's kinda like taking a realistic l- look of, like, how much impact from a salaries perspective, uh, you can gain versus, like, actually staying in a company.
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Even notionally, if that was ingrained in you like it was ingrained in myself, um, stepping away from that and just taking a, taking a step back, looking at it from a realistic perspective of what these salaries are and what your goal is, once again, that's, like, the reverse engineering side, is like, you know, if I'm staying in this company and I'm working, uh, and doing these smaller promotions versus jumping to another company and taking a, a greater promotion- Yeah, 'cause like-...
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do that across five times, 10 years or so, uh, you're gonna be drastically ahead. Yeah. I, I might say that's exactly how it worked for myself- Mm... is jumping jobs drastically increased my salary- Yep...
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a lot more than if I would've stayed at the company. And it's, it's, it's totally reversed from what we were taught as f- from our parents' generation- Yep...
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which was, "Stay, stay at the company, work hard, and, and they will, they will dangle the carrot, and you will be rewarded." Yep. Versus the hacker mindset is, okay, it's, it's how do I game the system?
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It's looking at a CTF and not saying, "Okay, the CTF was designed this way- Mm-hmm...
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where I need to solve each one of these problems," versus, like, I'll use Darknet as an example, is looking at the scoring, the scoring of it and realizing, oh, I get an equal number of points for pairing with a badge than I do for solving a challenge.
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Mm-hmm. I'm gonna just go hang out in the Hardware Hacking Village- Mm-hmm... and as- or the Soldering Skills Village now and just wait for someone to complete their badge and, and pair with them. Yep.
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And looking at, what are the systems that are in place, and how can I exploit them? Yep. But instead of on a technical level, from, from, we'll say from a social level. Yep.
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Yeah, and that a perfectly good example of, like, being observant and seeing where those min-maxing, like, game level optimization and that type of stuff is, like, figuring out that system and just really honing in on that.
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W- what about another example? Being observant. Like, I remember another one being, like, pivoting or social en- uh, like, a privilege of social engineering.
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Uh, don't really have a good answer for that one, or good story. Uh, I don't really have a good background on the social engineering side. We do c- uh, we can talk about Ikigai. That's a fun topic. Yeah.
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Let's talk about this because this is one resonated with me when I was looking at it. Yeah. Because it was kind of like find, finding your, your passion, your mission. Like, I, I actually... It was funny.
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I remember talking to you, and I, I go- [laughs] "I came up with this brilliant idea that I don't think anyone else has." This, this story is hilarious. [laughs] And it's like, "I have this great idea."
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So I have this idea of how you can, like, in- get someone to find, like, th- their magical place where they h- I belong.
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It's, it's combining, like, what do you enjoy doing and- And, and to frame this, Silk and I were, uh, we, we were on a call just chatting on different topics, and, and Silk had this brilliant idea- [laughs]...
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up- upon this. [laughs] So let's find what, what it is that you love, what are you good at, and then w- what the world needs or what you can be paid for.
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And I'm like, and then we could talk through those and, and, and find that middle thing. He goes, "Yeah-" That sweet center spot. Yeah. That sweet center spot. And it's like the mo- so I...
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There's the movie Hook, Robin Williams, and this great scene where it's Captain Hook and Smee, and Smee says something like, you know, "How, how... Maybe we could make the children love you."
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And Hook sits there for a second, and he goes, "Smee, what a great idea I've had. Maybe I'd get the children to love me."
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[laughs] And he repeats the exact same idea, and, and you looked at me, and you're like, "Yeah, there's a whole section in my book- [laughs]... which has this, this Ikigai," which I had never heard of before. Yeah.
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Uh, that's a Japanese word, uh, Ikigai, uh, and that's really distilling those, those four levels and kind of, like, those, uh, concentrical type things and figuring out your, your core.
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And yeah, the, for- And this, so this is a piece for o- for entrepreneurship. Yep. When you're in this section of the book, you're talking about what finding...
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If you wanna start a business, what's the right business for you?
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And it's combining find something, what you love, what the world needs- What you're good at and what you can be paid for What you can be paid for, exactly And that's the s- and that's the sweet spot. Where it's- Yep...
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like if you only find something that you love and that you're good at, that's a passion. If you find something, what you love and what the world needs, well, that's a mission.
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Yep Something you get paid for and what the no- world needs, it's, that's vocation.
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But- And that's another great example of, like, reverse engineering, is like you wanna find that sweet spot, but as you're thinking about that problem set is like how do you, like in creating a business, what is that best situation for me?
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And figuring out, you know, what really motivates you, what do you enjoy. Like, do you wanna be in a nine-to-five? Do you wanna fit in the hours? Do you wanna be traveling?
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There's so many of these variables, and that f- uh, ikigai framework helps distill it at another level where it's a little bit easier to figure out.
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And yeah, that's why that's in the, the business entrepreneurship section. Yeah, I love the book. I really do love the book, reading through it, because it made me realize
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if you are a successful hacker a- and you have a hacker mindset, how can you apply that to other aspects of your profession- Yep... starting a business, your passions, things like that.
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Yeah, and as a lot of Def Con, as we all grow older, we're looking at like either second careers or related different projects. Lots of people make side projects.
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Even Badge Life, a lot of them are all side projects, um, out of, you know, passion. They're, they're interested in the, uh, electronic, uh, engineering aspects of it, but they don't think about the business.
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They, they don't understand how to do the business side of it, and they're looking to expand it. Uh, that's another area where either I could help them, the book could help them.
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Uh, you know, trying to raise other business owners and grow our community, um, and yeah, continue our success. With that, like thank you so much for the work that you do to support the community.
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And it's in, I mean, obviously we're friends, but- Mm... I also truly mean that.
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Also, uh, as a person who speaks beha- on, on behalf of all hackers and a representative of all hackers, uh, which I've just bestowed upon my- Not really [laughs]
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Th- thank you for the work that you do at Hacker Warehouse, like helping Badge Life. And I, I ain't care about Badge Life.
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I care about helping people who are creators, who have a passion for this thing, be able to focus on that thing and not all the crap that happens around it.
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Like it's very hard to be very passionate about I wanna build this thing and share it with the community, and then, but in order to do so, I need to worry about money, and I need to worry about distribution.
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I need to worry about tax and all that, and giving them a place where they can sell those things. Mm-hmm. The book, supporting everyone through Hacker Warehouse, I'm, I'm excited about what comes next.
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I've heard, I've heard Hacker Couture out of your mouth a couple times- Mm... uh, which is like hacker fashion. I'm excited to see where that comes. Yep. Uh, with that, though, thank you so much for sticking with us.
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Thank you. Yeah, thanks for chatting. We'll see you guys around. Hackerwarehouse.com, derekgee.com. Thank you for watching. And hack on.
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So I'm sitting down with Garrett, which owns... Gosh, we've known each other for a long time, but you, you're kind of like my favorite person at DEF CON- Aw...
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because you have Hacker Warehouse, you have Hacker Mindsets, you're super available for a lot of people, but you facilitate badge life in so many ways.
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So this is like one of like the great unknowns that most people don't realize is that selling a badge at DEF CON is remarkably difficult. Because it's not even just like, "Oh, I can walk around in a backpack."
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You're not allowed to walk in a backpack and sell them out of your backpack. N- not because, "Oh, DEF CON's gonna come down." It's, it's a legitimate like Nevada law. Yeah, that's not really a DEF CON thing.
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That's like a Nevada like- That-... coming down on- That's IRS thing. Yeah.
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[laughs] So like because of that, it's remarkably difficult, and if you do sell a badge, you can't sell them or, like you lose your con because now you're trying to like p- paddle or do all this Yeah, the interactivity upon like individual badge makers like trying to distribute, uh, like the...
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There's a whole creative art side of it, um, which a lot of any badge makers are very successful, and that's what they love and do.
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Uh, and then it comes to the point of like selling it and the business side of it, and a lot of overhead comes to actually distributing, sales, tax, logistics. With stealing line, logistics, knowing where to buy 'em.
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Yeah. So you sell a lot of independent badge makers badges at Hacker Warehouse. Yeah, I mean, like I came from the community itself. Like I've been c- attending DEF CON since DEF CON 6.
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Uh, so I've been attending for a while, and I've gone from like human to press to media to, uh, vendoring. So I've kinda sprinkling around every, uh... Eventually, I'll get to gooning at one point.
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But ultimately, it's like, you know, supporting the community and helping people raise up and, you know, supporting other independent creators so that they could actually sustain that business because they get so overwhelmed upon that business side of like exactly what you said on- Well, and, and what you're saying, it sounds like so grandiose.
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Like, "I'm helping the community," and whatnot, but like this isn't like I'm saying this. It's we've witnessed this. Yeah.
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You've been part of the community, and this is like what, what I think often is missed when people walk through the vendor area. They're like, "Oh, it's, it's people trying to capitalize on DEF CON."
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It's like you sell the stuff from DEF CON. You've sold the cables, and, and heck, half Hack 5 stuff- Mm-hmm... you're distribu- So you, you're very much part of the community.
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Anytime someone comes out with one, you're there. You run the badge makers' Discord and all of these other- Yeah... pieces to connect really all these, all these people who wanna find their tribe.
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This is a place they can find it. Yeah, I appreciate that comment because that's, I, I guess, a underseen thing of like I'm working in the background type stuff.
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But like to your point, even Hacker Warehouse, that was like part of the origins of like, uh, that type of store didn't exist when I started in pen test and red team.
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And like, I was like, "If I have this problem, everyone else is gonna have this problem, so why don't I just solve that?" And- Which is very much a hacker thing of like solving your own problems and- Yeah, so- Yeah...
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solving your own problems and then giving away all the secrets because I remember when we, when we first met, you were, you were between a content creation and this and- [laughs]...
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Hacker Warehouse, and then you're like, "And also, I'm writing a book."
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[laughs] Yeah, so that was, uh, like three years of my life, uh, certainly fun, of trying to distill the technical hacking pen test red teaming like philosophy and methodologies, uh, into a way that anyone could adopt them, uh, into life.
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So it's not a technical book at all. Uh, like the stories- Well, it, it-... and the i- information in there- It's just taking... I'm sorry. I'm totally like- Yeah, please... it's your book, and I'm like hijacking.
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It's all good. Let me tell you about your own book. [laughs] I, I just... Let me start here. It's first, it's, it's called Hacker Mindset. It's the five-step methodology for cracking the system and achieving your dreams.
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Sounds grandiose, but the tr- the truth is it's how do you take all the, all the voodoo that is done at DEF CON- Mm-hmm...
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like pen testing and red team and lateral movement and reviewing systems and creating systems, and how do you take all the technical prowess you have and then take, take your success in the technical realm and move it towards business- Yep...
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life, organization- Mm-hmm... entrepreneurship. Yep. And that's what the book is about. Yep. And also, I'm gonna say it because it's not on the book. It's it was a national bestseller- [laughs]... which is freaking cool.
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Like being able to go, "Oh, it's on, it's on the national bestsellers list," like- Yeah, that was pretty amazing. Like I was super happy about that.
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I'm also super happy that it got translated, and it's in international countries. And like seeing it on a bookshelf that's like [laughs] different language than yours is like absolutely wild. That's trippy.
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I mean, the, the, the funniest part too is when it ha- Like it's one thing to be like, "Oh, I wrote an Amazon bestseller." Like the category is reverse engineering Python modules or something like...
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where it's like this narrow, narrow niche. Niche of a niche, yeah. You're like, "I got nothing." Like this is, this is national USA Today bestseller list. Like that is, that is a cool accomplishment. Thanks.
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Yeah, I wrote it for, uh, to be like a personal development, professional development, seeing that line of, uh, try- really trying to distill all those, uh, technical hacking things and so that really everyone could apply it.
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So- In which that scope is a little bit, a lot wider than DEF CON audience and just computing, uh, audience, so yeah. Well, I would actually say it's, it's relevant to many aspects- Mm... of DEF CON.
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Like well, let's take badge life. Yep. Like exactly what you're saying. You're selling, you're selling badges. Yep. It's thinking, okay, how do you turn, how do you turn that to a business?
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You're, you're effectively in some ways giving away the secret of h- [laughs]... here's how I created Hacker Warehouse. Yep. So in looking at it, there's a lot of pieces in here. Gi- give me a high level.
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Like give me a practical example of something that's in the book- Mm-hmm... that w- would kinda give someone a taste of it. Yeah. Uh, so a easy example is like reverse engineering, so hacking everyone, uh, you-
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CTS side, there's technical hackers taking apart code, um, and figuring out, like, how to bypass systems or figuring out how to, like, gain, like, extra privilege or whatever.
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For- at a practical level, uh, that might look like looking at it from an end state and then figuring out the pieces of how that system works, and then figuring out a way to, like, obtain status or obtain the goal that you're actually trying to work towards.
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So it's really like looking at that system and slowly taking it bit by bit and working your way through so that you're, uh, either, A, understanding the system so much that you know it better than the authors do.
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That's more at a technical level. But at a practical level, it's understanding that system so that you could get to your goal a lot quicker. Well, let's go with, like, a really, really practical example. Sure.
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Like, one of the ones you talk about is salary. Mm-hmm. Like, money. Yep. Like, how do you make more money in your, your career? Yeah. And what- So- What was one of the pieces of advice you gave about that?
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Uh, yeah, so, like, for myself, my, my family upbringing is, like, w- everyone's kind of, like, government type base, uh, civil servant type oriented.
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So I always was kinda taught to, like, stay on safe jobs, work in government, do your role, like, and you'll be, like, slowly progressing and, and that type of thing. Uh, and that, that was, like, the safe option, right?
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Uh, but if you really look at it, like, you get major promotions and major, like, salary bumps when you actually switch jobs, uh, whether that's, like, internally, you're always going for promotions, or you're actually going to another count- uh, company and you're elevating that way.
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So, like, if you're essentially doing the math on, like, are you getting small promotions every here and there, or are you taking, like, big promotions in, like, every few years?
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And if you actually chart that out, like, over, you know, like, a 10-year gap, like, if you're going slow and steady versus, like, if you're taking major jumps, uh, that is a big discrepancy from that side.
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So it's kinda like taking a realistic l- look of, like, how much impact from a salaries perspective, uh, you can gain versus, like, actually staying in a company.
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Even notionally, if that was ingrained in you like it was ingrained in myself, um, stepping away from that and just taking a, taking a step back, looking at it from a realistic perspective of what these salaries are and what your goal is, once again, that's, like, the reverse engineering side, is like, you know, if I'm staying in this company and I'm working, uh, and doing these smaller promotions versus jumping to another company and taking a, a greater promotion- Yeah, 'cause like-...
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do that across five times, 10 years or so, uh, you're gonna be drastically ahead. Yeah. I, I might say that's exactly how it worked for myself- Mm... is jumping jobs drastically increased my salary- Yep...
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a lot more than if I would've stayed at the company. And it's, it's, it's totally reversed from what we were taught as f- from our parents' generation- Yep...
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which was, "Stay, stay at the company, work hard, and, and they will, they will dangle the carrot, and you will be rewarded." Yep. Versus the hacker mindset is, okay, it's, it's how do I game the system?
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It's looking at a CTF and not saying, "Okay, the CTF was designed this way- Mm-hmm...
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where I need to solve each one of these problems," versus, like, I'll use Darknet as an example, is looking at the scoring, the scoring of it and realizing, oh, I get an equal number of points for pairing with a badge than I do for solving a challenge.
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Mm-hmm. I'm gonna just go hang out in the Hardware Hacking Village- Mm-hmm... and as- or the Soldering Skills Village now and just wait for someone to complete their badge and, and pair with them. Yep.
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And looking at, what are the systems that are in place, and how can I exploit them? Yep. But instead of on a technical level, from, from, we'll say from a social level. Yep.
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Yeah, and that a perfectly good example of, like, being observant and seeing where those min-maxing, like, game level optimization and that type of stuff is, like, figuring out that system and just really honing in on that.
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W- what about another example? Being observant. Like, I remember another one being, like, pivoting or social en- uh, like, a privilege of social engineering.
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Uh, don't really have a good answer for that one, or good story. Uh, I don't really have a good background on the social engineering side. We do c- uh, we can talk about Ikigai. That's a fun topic. Yeah.
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Let's talk about this because this is one resonated with me when I was looking at it. Yeah. Because it was kind of like find, finding your, your passion, your mission. Like, I, I actually... It was funny.
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I remember talking to you, and I, I go- [laughs] "I came up with this brilliant idea that I don't think anyone else has." This, this story is hilarious. [laughs] And it's like, "I have this great idea."
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So I have this idea of how you can, like, in- get someone to find, like, th- their magical place where they h- I belong.
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It's, it's combining, like, what do you enjoy doing and- And, and to frame this, Silk and I were, uh, we, we were on a call just chatting on different topics, and, and Silk had this brilliant idea- [laughs]...
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up- upon this. [laughs] So let's find what, what it is that you love, what are you good at, and then w- what the world needs or what you can be paid for.
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And I'm like, and then we could talk through those and, and, and find that middle thing. He goes, "Yeah-" That sweet center spot. Yeah. That sweet center spot. And it's like the mo- so I...
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There's the movie Hook, Robin Williams, and this great scene where it's Captain Hook and Smee, and Smee says something like, you know, "How, how... Maybe we could make the children love you."
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And Hook sits there for a second, and he goes, "Smee, what a great idea I've had. Maybe I'd get the children to love me."
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[laughs] And he repeats the exact same idea, and, and you looked at me, and you're like, "Yeah, there's a whole section in my book- [laughs]... which has this, this Ikigai," which I had never heard of before. Yeah.
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Uh, that's a Japanese word, uh, Ikigai, uh, and that's really distilling those, those four levels and kind of, like, those, uh, concentrical type things and figuring out your, your core.
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And yeah, the, for- And this, so this is a piece for o- for entrepreneurship. Yep. When you're in this section of the book, you're talking about what finding...
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If you wanna start a business, what's the right business for you?
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And it's combining find something, what you love, what the world needs- What you're good at and what you can be paid for What you can be paid for, exactly And that's the s- and that's the sweet spot. Where it's- Yep...
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like if you only find something that you love and that you're good at, that's a passion. If you find something, what you love and what the world needs, well, that's a mission.
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Yep Something you get paid for and what the no- world needs, it's, that's vocation.
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But- And that's another great example of, like, reverse engineering, is like you wanna find that sweet spot, but as you're thinking about that problem set is like how do you, like in creating a business, what is that best situation for me?
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And figuring out, you know, what really motivates you, what do you enjoy. Like, do you wanna be in a nine-to-five? Do you wanna fit in the hours? Do you wanna be traveling?
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There's so many of these variables, and that f- uh, ikigai framework helps distill it at another level where it's a little bit easier to figure out.
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And yeah, that's why that's in the, the business entrepreneurship section. Yeah, I love the book. I really do love the book, reading through it, because it made me realize
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if you are a successful hacker a- and you have a hacker mindset, how can you apply that to other aspects of your profession- Yep... starting a business, your passions, things like that.
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Yeah, and as a lot of Def Con, as we all grow older, we're looking at like either second careers or related different projects. Lots of people make side projects.
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Even Badge Life, a lot of them are all side projects, um, out of, you know, passion. They're, they're interested in the, uh, electronic, uh, engineering aspects of it, but they don't think about the business.
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They, they don't understand how to do the business side of it, and they're looking to expand it. Uh, that's another area where either I could help them, the book could help them.
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Uh, you know, trying to raise other business owners and grow our community, um, and yeah, continue our success. With that, like thank you so much for the work that you do to support the community.
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And it's in, I mean, obviously we're friends, but- Mm... I also truly mean that.
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Also, uh, as a person who speaks beha- on, on behalf of all hackers and a representative of all hackers, uh, which I've just bestowed upon my- Not really [laughs]
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Th- thank you for the work that you do at Hacker Warehouse, like helping Badge Life. And I, I ain't care about Badge Life.
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I care about helping people who are creators, who have a passion for this thing, be able to focus on that thing and not all the crap that happens around it.
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Like it's very hard to be very passionate about I wanna build this thing and share it with the community, and then, but in order to do so, I need to worry about money, and I need to worry about distribution.
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I need to worry about tax and all that, and giving them a place where they can sell those things. Mm-hmm. The book, supporting everyone through Hacker Warehouse, I'm, I'm excited about what comes next.
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I've heard, I've heard Hacker Couture out of your mouth a couple times- Mm... uh, which is like hacker fashion. I'm excited to see where that comes. Yep. Uh, with that, though, thank you so much for sticking with us.
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Thank you. Yeah, thanks for chatting. We'll see you guys around. Hackerwarehouse.com, derekgee.com. Thank you for watching. And hack on.
