58. Using Feed Efficiency and Carcass Ultrasound to Identify Superior Beef Cattle

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Hey buddy, this is Seth Christensen.
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Thanks for tuning in.
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The Got Any Cows Podcast will take you to meet the people and see the cattle that will help you produce the best beef from your ranch.
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Let's hop in the truck and go see some cows.
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Well, I am here in College Station, Texas at the American Akeyushi Association Convention and joined today by Mike Kirby of Buck Mountain Ranch.
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Mike, I appreciate you joining me here on the Garden Cows Podcast.
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You bet.
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You bet, absolutely.
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Mike, if you would maybe give us a short intro on who you are and where you come from, please.
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Well, I'm Mike Kirby.
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I'm from Warsaw, Missouri, down in the Ozarks.
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Um we've been doing Wagyu for almost 20 years.
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We started off um with the blacks and uh the Reds were pretty tight back then.
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You just couldn't get the semen.
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Yeah.
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You know, it was back when everything was locked down.
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Sure.
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And uh, but we were able to acquire some stuff out of Australia.
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Okay, yeah.
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And um, we've kind of changed our business plan over the years, and now we're mostly Reds with with some blacks.
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Yeah, yeah, okay.
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So, how did you first come in contact with Wagyu?
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Was your background in cattle prior to Wagyu or were you in another industry entirely?
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You know, um actually I had a a ranch that I was running a youth ranch for for at-risk kids.
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Yeah, yeah.
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We would rescue horses and we had a faith-based counselor, yeah, and we would have these horses come in, we doctor them up, and the kids got to work with them, and it was a great program.
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Helped a lot of kids.
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A lot of kids from the inner city came out, and uh my counselor that was faith-based got married and moved away.
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Oh, okay.
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So it was hard because I wanted to keep it faith-based.
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Yeah, and uh we turned our farm open to a lot of the churches in our area, and I'm from the Ozarks.
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Okay, okay, and uh our farm is really unique.
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We've got um live streams, we've got four lakes, and we've got Indian teepee mounds.
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So we find arrowheads everywhere.
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Yeah.
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Um, but we found it um hard to get the churches to bring their kids out.
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Okay, okay.
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And uh so I had a client because during my day job, I'm a financial advisor.
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Okay, and uh he was terminally ill and wanted to buy a big ranch and start an Angus farm for his family.
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Okay, and so we went out and started doing farm tours and land tours, and one day we had lunch at a place um in Columbia, Missouri, and they had Wagyu.
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Okay, and I was familiar with it, but I mean, this is a long time ago.
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Yeah, and so we had lunch, and I called the chef out and I asked him what about the cattle, yeah.
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And uh he told me how much he paid for the carcass, and I looked at my client and I'm like, we're not doing Angus.
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Uh-huh.
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Uh-huh.
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Yeah.
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We're going to do Wagyu.
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And I searched everywhere.
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Yeah.
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I mean, reds were almost impossible back then.
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Yeah.
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And you're saying it's about 20 years ago.
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It was early 2000s.
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Yeah, it was okay.
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Yeah, you just weren't going to buy reds.
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Right, right.
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Unless you were a member of the hard brand deal.
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Sure, yes.
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And so I bought some blacks and uh, well, actually, I I sourced some blacks for him and unfortunately passed away before we could put everything together.
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Sure.
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And I thought, well, I've got this farm, I lost my faith-based counselor, so I'm gonna buy those cattle.
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Yeah, and that's what started it.
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Okay, just like a lot of the breeders, it became an addiction.
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Uh-huh.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So you're talking, I mean, roughly 20 years ago, starting into the black wag you, not a whole lot of anything to do with the reds.
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Walk us through, I guess, in that time frame, as far as where you're it was so difficult to get a hold of the reds.
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At what point were you able to acquire any red genetics?
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And how did that come to be?
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I acquired some semen and uh I wanted to make some embryos with their cows.
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Sure.
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And they wouldn't do it because of the contract they were under.
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Sure.
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And I think everybody understands that.
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And so um, I finally got some embryos out of Australia, and that's where we got our first reds, and we still actually have one of those donor cows that's still alive, AR1.
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Yes, beautiful cow.
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Beautiful cow.
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Actually, we're getting ready to actually make some embryos with her.
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She's getting ready for an IVF session.
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Yeah.
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And uh I served on the AWA board of directors a few years ago.
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Okay.
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And uh I think to me, I love both colors of the Wagyu breed.
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Um, and I don't want to make anybody mad, but the blacks become became pretty much the flavor of the month.
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Sure.
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And I'm like, you know, that's not what I'm looking to do.
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Sure.
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You know, sure.
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And I looked at the reds and we had some reds.
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We were about 80% blacks and 20% reds, and I just like the reds.
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You know, and we were able to buy in all of the original semen, like a lot of people, and when the prices were crazy high.
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You know, Rooshaw was 25 grand a straw.
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Right.
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Right.
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And uh um, and you just hardly couldn't get it.
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But uh, we sat on that semen for a while and black started to get pretty finicky, and we're we decided it's time to do more and more reds.
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So now we're probably 80, 90 percent reds, and just some blacks, yeah, because we have got some good genetics.
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Yeah, and and I like the reds, yeah, you know.
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Um, nobody makes fun of my reds.
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Sometimes people drive by and go, what kind of dairy cow is that?
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On the blacks, yeah.
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Yeah, um so yeah, we've got into the reds, and one of the problems I saw was there just really wasn't much data.
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Sure.
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Yeah, you know, yeah, and uh I'm a big data person, you know, like a lot of people.
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I want to know from start to finish if we're spending 10 grand for a straw of semen or 25 grand back then for a straw of Rushaw, yeah, um, I gotta have the data.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And the data was pretty inconsistent.
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Sure.
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You know, whether it was Australia, Akiushi, or American Wegu.
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Um, and what gosh, we didn't even get EPDs uh with the AWA until just what it seems like just a few years ago.
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I know it was longer than that.
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Yeah, and so everything was if you had a certain bull, it was a ten thousand dollar animal, yeah, even if it had three legs.
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Right, right.
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That's that bull, so it's good.
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Yep, yeah and uh um so we were breeding pretty hard to uh the Akiyushi EPDs, and then they pulled down their their data and just kept them eternal.
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Sure.
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And that threw me for a loop.
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And I'm like, wait a minute, I've been kind of breeding towards that data.
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Sure, sure.
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And uh, like everybody, um, but so we decided to get into a feed efficiency system.
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Okay, and um we started doing ultrasound scans over 15 years ago.
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And the one thing I want to put out on the ultrasound scans is I I think it's important that everybody that's gonna do those scans try to do it between in that 400-day average, that 13-month to 16-month of age.
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Yeah.
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And what we do is we keep it in that um average for sure, but if we get a good scan, we'll follow those animals because we do two scans a year.
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Yeah, we'll follow those animals all the way through.
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Yeah, yeah, you bet.
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And uh um what two years ago, two and a half years ago, we worked with CLOC, which is um a feed efficiency system, and yes, we invested pretty heavily into that.
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And uh, we started our feed data, and it took us a while to kind of interpret that data.
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It was new to us, and uh, but we've ran about 200 head now through our feed data, and uh we've accumulated a lot of hard data.
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Yeah, and that's what I like to say.
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I think it's very hard data, it's not estimated numbers.
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Sure.
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We know what we have, it's independent.
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C Lock um does all of our feed efficiency data and um uh C Cup does our uh ultrasound data.
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Yeah, and so there's no there's no finagle in numbers.
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Sure, sure.
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Yeah, and uh so what we were looking for when we did this data is I believe most Wegu are gonna hit Prime.
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You know, give them enough time, give them enough grain, they're gonna hit Prime.
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Yeah, but one of the drawbacks to Wagyu, and I love the breed, yeah, is it takes a long time and a lot of input cost.
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Sure, right.
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And I thought, well, there's data out there, some of it's not great, some of it's good, but I thought, well, the one thing that we really don't have in this breed is feed efficiency.
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Sure.
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And that to me is one of the most important data traits we can follow, you know, because if we can cut down our feed efficiency cost or our feed intake cost, we we've won the game.
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Yeah.
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Um, and so we started that.
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And uh so with our goal is we want to find an animal that's gonna have a bigger ribeye and a higher IMF at a young age.
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Yeah.
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And what I mean by that is I'm looking for early maturing animals.
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Sure.
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You know, I'm not looking that for a 30-month on feed animal, right?
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I'm expecting that animal to go high prime.
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Yeah, if not higher.
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Sure.
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And so we're looking for animals that mature early because that is heritable information, and that does it more feed efficient, which is also uh heritable.
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Yeah.
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Um, I saw that Australia this year or last year came out with a feed efficiency EPD, you know, or EBV, I think they do.
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Yeah, yeah, uh, which I think it's a good start, sure.
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You know, because that's something we're lacking.
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And unfortunately, it's so expensive to do that data.
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Sure.
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And uh, we looked around for a long time for um feedlots and stuff that did it, but you just can't get a you can't get in on it.
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Right.
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You know, they've that's all booked, so we we made the investment in it, and uh it opened our eyes.
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You know, we have animals that when I look at them, I'm like, that's a donor.
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And then when I look at the data, I'm like, that's not a donor.
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You know, yeah.
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So I'm like, wow, you know, for years it was that eye appeal and the genetics that I was looking at, and uh um when we started getting the data, we started to whittle down um what we really felt like was a donor animal.
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And uh and we run right now, we've got about 175 full bloods on our farm, and you've been out there, yeah, yeah.
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It's not that big of a farm to hold these amount of animals.
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Sure.
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Um, so we're trying to get that number back in shape, but it's amazing out of that 175, you know, I think there's probably 15% of those animals that I'm gonna really say, these are donors.
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Yeah, yeah, you know, you bet.
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You know, um, not that the other animals aren't good, but they're not what I'm gonna consider a donor.
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Sure, sure.
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And I've had people come out and they're like, I want to buy a donor animal.
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And I'm like, well, this is this price, yes, and here's why.
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Right, right.
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This is this price, and here's why.
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Right, right.
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You know, yeah.
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So but for us, the data's been hard to share.
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Yeah, right.
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You know, because it's it's kind of new for a lot of breeders.
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Right, right.
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And uh so we came out with something called power rankings.
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And we we use the kind of the same graphs before they came out with the helix or the helical or whatever um they call.
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Yeah, it's just the farther to the right, usually the better, unless it's birthing weight and you want it farther to the left.
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Sure.
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And so we went with that data.
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So with our animals, we collect the average daily gains, um, the feed conversion ratio, yep, and um residual feed intake.
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Yeah, to me, out of those numbers, the feed conversion is the most important, just so everybody understands that.
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Um the feed conversion is how much did you eat to grow that pound of gain?
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Yeah, yeah.
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And so um we're looking for the animals, obviously, that eat less, right, but grow more.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And uh we've had um a big batch of embryo siblings, and it's amazing they're they're out of the same batch, same everything, the difference of their data.
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Yes, I mean it's it's it's crazy how how how far that can be.
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Right.
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Um so we are we're working hard on educating people.
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Um, we share our data, you know.
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Um, that's something that you know I think that we've always done.
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You know, I I think you know, but we we host the longest running educational event in the United States that's not an association event.
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Right.
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We started off years ago and uh it was it started off as a passion for prime.
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We had two years of meetings before we worked with Mercedes and we started the first Passion for Prime sale.
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Okay, and so because I'm big in education, yeah, absolutely.
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You know, I've got a heart for it.
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Right.
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And so we've been running these educational events for for like 15 years.
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Yes.
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Um what is the name of the event and where could someone find it in the coming year?
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We are changing the name this year to uh American Wege University.
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Okay, okay, awesome.
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Um, and we're working with Joe Pettit with the super sale and so October 9th, he has his elite heifer.
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Yeah, October 10th, he has his open consignment, it's gonna be in Nashville.
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Yeah, we have our meeting on Friday.
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Gotcha free to come.
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Yeah.
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Um, we've got probably six speakers all geared towards the Waggy Breed or something that I think can help somebody in the breed.
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I say every year, when you come here, I want to give you at least one or two nuggets through all of our speakers that you can take home today and implement into your program and make a difference.
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Right, right.
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That's a lot of the same goal as this podcast in the sense of saying, hey, let's take some information, let's put it in front of people, and hopefully there's something somewhere in an experience from a guest or that we're able to share that's applicable that people can take home and put to work.
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I know I I think I emailed you or texted you the first time I saw it.
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I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm so busy with everything.
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And I'm I I said I sat down, I watched your podcast, I'm like, now I gotta keep watching it.
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I'm like, great.
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You know, but I appreciate you taking the time to watch.
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Well, we need we need the information.
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Yes, you know, wagyu have been around for a while now, but we're still it's still a kind of an unknown breed.
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Sure.
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You know, a lot of times if you use the word Akiyushi, it was like saying Wagyu 20 years ago.
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Right, right, right.
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Nobody knows what it is.
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Yes, you know, so uh, but uh it's come a long way.
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Uh I think it's probably the most important breed in the United States because it's the breed that can bring uh a better quality of meat.
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Yeah, yeah, um, and a healthier cut of beef.
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Sure.
00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:32.559
Um, so I think that there's a place for Akiyushi or the Black Wagyu in everybody's program.
00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:35.440
I mean, unless you're registered this or registered that.
00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:36.320
Sure, sure.
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:37.840
Um, it it's just gonna help.
00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:38.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:39.440
No, absolutely.
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:47.200
Well, and it's fun and unique to see that the work that you're doing in data collection because it does, it takes a lot of time, takes a lot of expense, just like you've mentioned.
00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:47.679
A lot.
00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:49.039
It's difficult to acquire.
00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:53.279
You know, I think everyone would love to have more data to base decisions on, but it does.
00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:55.120
It takes time and money to collect it.
00:14:55.279 --> 00:14:55.440
Yeah.
00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:57.679
And so I appreciate the work that you're doing there.
00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:01.279
I think it's wonderful that you're gathering that data, sharing that data.
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:03.840
I know that's helped you to identify some elite individuals.
00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:05.840
I've used your Rushaw Max bowl.
00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:12.240
Walk us through maybe a little bit of your experience in identifying him and and how it was that he rose to the top of those rankings.
00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:16.080
What did you find or how did you identify Rushaw Max programs?
00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:21.200
Well, our our contemporary groups, because we calve twice a year, like a lot of people.
00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:21.519
Yeah.
00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:23.600
We're we do embryos and then we clean up.
00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:29.600
Um so our contemporary groups on our bulls and heifers, they range from 20 to 30 head per sex.
00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:30.240
Sure.
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:42.399
And so what we do is is we compare the contemporary group against the contemporary group, and then I come back and I will compare the top of those contemporary groups with my overall.
00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:42.720
Sure.
00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:46.080
Because we keep a list, even if we sell an animal, yeah, I keep that data.
00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:46.879
Yeah, you bet.
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:50.559
And uh so I kind of get a feel for for what's going on.
00:15:51.039 --> 00:16:00.559
And I think it's important because my son told me one time, he goes, Dad, on this feed efficiency, if we threw a lot of grain in that bunk, we could get better data.
00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:00.960
Sure.
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:08.000
And I'm like, son, first and foremost, this data's for us because this is gonna help us make better breeding decisions.
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:08.480
Sure.
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:15.840
And if we want to market our animals, it can help the buyer understand the strong points and the weaknesses of every animal.
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:16.320
Yeah.
00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:21.840
And when we ran Rushaw Max through, um, he was number one in every category.
00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:25.120
I mean, not only in his contemporary group, but through everything.
00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:40.720
Yes, yes, and uh, I mean, if you ever looked at his power rankings, I mean, it's just all the way to the right um on his average daily gains, his feed efficiency, and every data point that we collect will pass to the next generation.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:46.399
He's a big bull, he's a little bit bossy at the bunk, sure, but just like all of them.
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:46.879
Yeah.
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:53.600
But for people that don't understand how the feed efficiency works, um, I should back up and kind of explain that.
00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:54.480
Yeah, please do.
00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:58.960
Um, we put an EID tag in their ear, okay?
00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:06.640
And then when they go to eat, they go through a uh a head bar and there's a reader bar that starts reading their tag.
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:09.039
Okay, they're on a bunk.
00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:11.359
That bunk holds 300 pounds of feed.
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:11.920
Yep.
00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:16.400
That EID tag is sending a second uh signal every second.
00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:18.799
And so that goes back to the mothership.
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:25.599
Yep, yep, and so it's measuring how many ounces of feed did that animal eat, how long did it eat?
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:26.160
Right.
00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:29.599
And then every time it gets a drink, it's on a half scale.
00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:30.400
Okay.
00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:34.880
So we start off at the beginning of the test, we take their weights, so they have a base.
00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:40.720
Halfway through the test, we take another weight so they can compare it to the half weights, and at the ending of the test.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.319
And so it's a true average daily gain.
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:49.519
It's not like I had, well, I got 10 bulls in here, I've been feeding 10 buckets a day.
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:52.079
This one grew the most, so that's the most.
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:52.799
Sure, okay.
00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:53.119
Sure.
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:53.359
Yeah.
00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:57.519
Um, so it really breaks it down, and it's so accurate.
00:17:57.680 --> 00:17:58.880
We'll get an email.
00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:01.039
Go check tag 54.
00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:05.519
And I'm like, okay, so we go out and 54 is in the back of the corner.
00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:06.720
I'm like, oh wow.
00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:07.039
Yeah.
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.759
You know, we had one that it knows that he's gone off feed.
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:13.359
It's not eaten, you know, and we had one, go check this tag number.
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:16.240
And I'm looking and I'm like, there's nothing wrong with that animal.
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:16.480
Yeah.
00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:18.799
And the next day it started to have a watery eye.
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:26.880
And we fight pink eye during the season, and sure enough, yeah, you know, that that feed system told us a day ahead of time that it was starting pink eye.
00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:27.119
Yeah.
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:28.799
So it's very accurate.
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:35.039
Um, and so um we do that, we we start our feed efficiency at 17 months.
00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:35.359
Okay.
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:38.720
We do our ultrasounds in that um 400 day average.
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:39.119
Okay.
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:39.440
Yeah.
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:43.200
We are very dedicated to those dates.
00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:43.440
Yeah.
00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:50.160
And that's what I'm hoping is for the people that want to do this data, ultrasound data is easy.
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:50.559
Sure.
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:51.680
It really is.
00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:52.799
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:57.359
As long as you can get the cattle in a shoot on a scale, the rest of the call in a guy to do it.
00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:06.480
Yeah, there is an ultrasound association for everybody that's listened to your get online, it'll so it'll show you all the ultrasound texts in your state.
00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:07.200
Okay.
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:07.759
Yep.
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:14.160
Um, I can't tell you what the names are because they're in Japanese and I wouldn't under I I wouldn't be able to pronounce it anyway.
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:18.000
But the ultrasound data now is not what it was 10 years ago.
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:18.640
Sure.
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:22.240
I used to be um have people tell me, well, ultrasound data is not accurate.
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:22.880
Uh-huh.
00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:23.599
Yeah, right, right.
00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:24.880
And I'm like, I don't know.
00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:28.400
You know, I I watched them do IVF and they can pick up the oversight.
00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:29.119
Right, right.
00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:35.599
You know, and I'm thinking if they can pick up an oversight with an ultrasound, yeah, they can pick up the IMF in a scan.
00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.559
And today's equipment is more accurate.
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:46.799
And actually, the ultrasound association is trying to come up with a new unit for Wagyu to be able to pick that higher marbling up.
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:47.680
Yeah, yeah, you bet.
00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:48.319
You bet.
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:49.599
So it's it's exciting.
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:50.799
And uh, absolutely.
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:57.920
And so if you want to do ultrasound, basically I'm I'm personally recommending that you do it between 13 and 16 months.
00:19:58.000 --> 00:19:58.400
Yeah.
00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:02.720
Look on the um association for ultrasound techs, find your tech.
00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:04.000
Um, it's simple.
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:04.319
Yeah.
00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:06.640
You know, they send it off to an independent lab.
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:06.960
Right.
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:09.759
Marcus, ultrasound practitioners, the cup lab.
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:09.920
Yeah.
00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:10.400
Exactly.
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:10.799
Yep.
00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:14.480
And uh they they want to send your data straight to the associations.
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:15.680
And I like that.
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:16.240
Sure.
00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:18.160
But you gotta tell them, you gotta argue them.
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.920
Well, look, I'm glad you sent that to the associations, but I want that data.
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:22.880
Right, right, right.
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:24.079
I want the raw data set as well.
00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:27.839
So give it to me because I need it for my my system.
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:28.400
Right.
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:29.440
Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:36.240
And uh when we first had ultrasound data years ago, I sent it to the AWA and they're like, what do you want us to do with this?
00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:36.640
Right.
00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:36.960
Right.
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:38.400
Well, it's ultrasound data.
00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:40.640
He goes, Well, we don't have a way to handle that.
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:41.920
I'm like, well, now you do.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:42.240
Right.
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:43.680
And like, no.
00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:47.759
And then we sent in, we sent in like 200 full bloods to them.
00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:48.319
Yep.
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:52.640
You know, so um, but now all the associations are taking that data.
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:54.000
Um, so that's nice.
00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:57.599
That comes straight in from the lab, so there's no finagling of numbers.
00:20:57.839 --> 00:20:58.160
Right, right.
00:20:58.400 --> 00:20:59.200
You know, yep, yep.
00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:01.200
So I I highly encourage this.
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:03.519
And if you find a good animal, follow them through.
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:04.960
Right, right, you know, yeah, yeah.
00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:07.279
And really see what that animal's doing.
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:08.160
Yep.
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:09.039
You know, yep.
00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:19.519
You know, and it's interesting you talk about ultrasound, and I I've I've had people float the same thing, say, well, you know, ultrasound's not accurate because the fat melting temperature point is so low, there's no way it can be seen on ultrasound.
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:31.440
And what I tell those people, I said, look, I understand the theory, I understand the proposal of what you're saying, that yeah, maybe if if the fat melting point is lower than the animal's body temperature, then the fat would be sitting in a liquid state.
00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:35.279
So, in theory, I understand the theory here that, yeah, we we wouldn't see this fat.
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:42.960
But I said, I have seen data sets, you know, showing north of a 90% correlation between the scan data and the hard kill data.
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:44.400
I have seen those data sets.
00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:47.359
I have never seen a data set that says, oh, nope, they were not correlated.
00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:53.119
You know, that this ultrasound data was way off base because there was all of this invisible marbling that's being proposed.
00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:55.599
I said, I'll believe it when I see it.
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.599
If somebody shows me hard data that says nope, ultrasound's no good, I'll believe you at that point.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.839
But until then it's it's a theory, you know, as as to why ultrasound wouldn't be working.
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:04.160
Yeah.
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:10.079
So yeah, it's uh and sadly our data does not correlate to any association's data.
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:11.359
Sure, right, right, right.
00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:12.240
Separate and distinct animals.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:20.480
Our best uh scan on a mature cow, okay, that it wasn't a 400 day, but it was one of the 400 day high marblers that we followed through.
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:26.160
She had a 13.11, which is like I don't know how many more over the highest grade of prime.
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:27.519
Long ways past prime, yep.
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:33.599
But if you look at her EPDs, you wouldn't buy her, you wouldn't touch her because I mean there's no marbling on that.
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:34.400
Right, yep.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:39.519
And so, I mean, we we never get that correlation with the estimated data at all.
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:40.240
Right, right.
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:41.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:41.920
Yep.
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:46.559
Well, you know, and that's the thing that I think is so unique about what you're doing and the data set you're collecting.
00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:57.039
Right now, people are they're starving for metrics to select by, you know, as far as like what what is a good one or what is a bad one or which ones will marble or which ones will gain or which ones are feed efficient, all these different things.
00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:00.480
And so it's needed, just providing another set of benchmarks, you know.
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:12.079
And and I think that that what you're doing, and I would tell people, you know, both both pay attention to the data you're collecting, but I would encourage people to not only, it's not your job as an individual breeder to provide the data for everyone.
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:14.400
You know, I mean, I think everyone should follow your example.
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:18.160
The more places we can get gathering more data, that's a positive thing.
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:22.400
You know, if we can learn, hey, in Mike's program under Mike's management, here's a bull that came to the top, right?
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.400
And I think Lucha Max can be a beneficial bull in a series of other programs, right?
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:36.240
And I would love to see more programs follow suit rather than say, hey, I'm gonna abdicate my responsibility for data collection to Mike or to Seth or to any other breeder, right?
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:37.599
Any other breeder that may be doing that.
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:49.839
I'd love to see more and more places take that time, invest those dollars and those hours into ultrasound, into, you know, even if it's something as simple as like, let's just do ultrasound or let's just do a game test.
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:51.759
I'd love to see more feed efficiency testing.
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:53.119
I think it's wonderful what you've done there.
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:55.119
Like you mentioned, the barrier to entry is higher.
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:57.920
It's a much more expensive, you know, thing to get involved in.
00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:08.880
But I would encourage people to take that on because the more data can be collected in more locations, the more of these elite outliers we can identify among different contemporaries, different sets of cattle.
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:10.960
And that moves the breed at large forward.
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:26.000
When we can say, hey, here's here's some unique individuals from a series of different places, series of different bloodlines, and those genetics can move between herds, you know, a semen purchase, an embryo purchase, a son, a daughter, to hopefully move the collective whole forward with some solid data.
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:26.319
Yeah.
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:28.880
So that's why we came out with the power rankings.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:29.039
Yeah.
00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:35.279
Let me let me try to show people, yeah, but still, I mean, we've had the power rankings for a couple years.
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:42.400
I mean, tonight we had five lots and we had power rankings that didn't come up in the the presentation, but it was in the catalog.
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:42.799
Yes.
00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:48.720
And uh um somebody told me a pioneer of somebody that slumped over in the saddle with arrows in their back.
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:51.599
I kind of know that.
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:52.000
Right.
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:59.759
Um, but I think as time goes on, this is gonna be data that you need to have, you know, for the breed.
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:00.960
Sure, you know, yeah.
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:02.799
Um it'll it'll be good data.
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:10.559
And uh um I think you've got a cow that is, in my opinion, one of the best cows in the breed.
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:11.359
I appreciate that.
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.440
And uh it's your 121 cow.
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:13.759
Yep.
00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:19.680
And I mean, the the offspring that we've got from her are just off the charts, you know.
00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:24.480
And um, I was making a run on a some X14 over your 121 tonight.
00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:31.359
But it got so high, yeah, and I thought, well, if I buy these tonight, I'm gonna have to sleep in the barn.
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:34.079
So I I'll stick with what I have.
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:35.920
Yeah, but yeah, definitely.
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.839
Um, and that's just from hard data.
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:39.039
Right, yeah, yeah.
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:43.680
And so anybody that can uh acquire those that genetics, it's a good mix.
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:44.480
Right, right.
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:53.759
Well, and you're able to go in and bid with confidence in that kind of a setting because you've seen with your 121 daughter, your 109e donor, you've seen those genetics can get it done.
00:25:53.839 --> 00:26:01.920
Yeah, and then just you know, in in the case in point of that particular mating, in the Australian database, FX14 has come to the top per their metrics, right?
00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:03.279
Or per that system.
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:16.720
And if 121 has proven herself under yours, that's a solid bet for you as a prospective buyer to say, hey, I can at least bid to this threshold because you've seen under under these two different data sets, hey, 121 has got some potential, so does FX14.
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:21.599
I can say with confidence this is something I'd at least be interested in incorporating up to a threshold, right?
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:22.240
I'm I'm with you.
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:25.920
You hate to go home and have to explain to the missus uh I went past where I meant to go.
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:32.960
My best two ultrasound scans was full sisters to 121.
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:33.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:41.279
Um, so she's a powerhouse, and I actually got an opportunity to uh flush her back when juries had her.
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:42.000
Yes, yeah.
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:46.319
And uh so it was a good opportunity, and I've actually got one embryo left of that.
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:46.799
We had two.
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:49.759
I put one in December and it took.
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:50.160
Uh-huh.
00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:52.960
Um, so we're getting ready to put one in in about a week and a half.
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:53.920
Good, good.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:55.039
From that big Alcross.
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:55.519
That's it.
00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:56.319
Big Alcross.
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:56.480
Yes.
00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:58.160
So that's an old embryo.
00:26:58.480 --> 00:26:59.119
Oh, absolutely.
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:07.839
Well, and it's so neat to see I I love seeing those genetics go to work in programs that recognize and and can can leverage the full value of the potential there.
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:14.559
You know, to understand, hey, that the these can help move a group forward, you know, whether that's in a son or in a daughter, and can do positive things.
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:18.400
And I hope, just like you mentioned, there's so many differences among siblings, right?
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:26.559
So I hope that there's among the group of siblings you have and or and or grand offspring, you say, hey, here's the very best one to carry that legacy forward, right?
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:31.119
That outperformed its siblings because that's how we move them forward generation by generation, you know.
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:49.759
And that's that and anyway, that's I think the the center of of all of what you're doing there is until you gather the data, we can't say, well, like well, they're all the exact same cross, so they are functionally equal until there is some kind of differentiator to say, hey, here's our one that ought to be in the steer pin, here's maybe the stud of the bunch or the donor of the bunch, and the rest are just cows.
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:50.400
You know what I mean?
00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:52.400
Out out of the bunch, even though they're full siblings.
00:27:52.640 --> 00:28:02.480
So well, last year, out of everybody we scanned, I'm gonna let you guess what sire was the number one marbling animal, because I don't think you'll get it.
00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:03.039
Uh-huh.
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:05.680
So uh uh a foundation a foundation bowl or what is your ball?
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:06.559
Foundation sire.
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:07.759
Okay, foundation sire.
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:09.039
Everybody says doesn't marble.
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:10.240
Shigamaroo.
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:11.680
What the other one?
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:12.480
Tamaroon.
00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:13.119
Tamar Maroon.
00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:13.519
Uh-huh.
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:14.319
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:14.960
Like, yeah.
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:16.079
That can't be right.
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:18.880
I'm going back to the data sheet from Sea Lock and I'm like, Right.
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:19.200
Okay.
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:19.839
Yeah.
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:20.079
Yeah.
00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:26.960
You know, so I always tell people if you heard it on Facebook, you might want to go back and check your data.
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:31.200
But yeah, Tamar Maru last year, out of all the scans, was number one.
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:31.839
Interesting.
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:35.519
And it's not a pitch, but we have a son of Tamaro, Tamstar.
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:37.359
It was our number two highest marbler.
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:37.920
Interesting.
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:40.000
I like Tamaro for its length.
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:41.279
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:43.279
The length, the size, the frame, and those kind of things.
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:45.279
I mean, it's got the big rib roll.
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:49.200
And um, we had uh we had 53 bulls and one pen.
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:52.880
They were all yearlings, and I would ask my son, who's that?
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:56.799
And he's looking at the sheet, and I'm like, Well, that one's a tamaroo.
00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:57.440
Double check me.
00:28:57.519 --> 00:28:57.839
He goes, Yeah.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:28:59.519
I said, Well, that one's a tamaro.
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:00.319
He goes, Well, how do you know?
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:01.440
I said, Look how long it is.
00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:01.920
Uh-huh.
00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:07.920
You know, but everybody thinks he won't marble, but uh I will share my data with you.
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:08.319
Right.
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:10.319
You know, and I don't have a dog in that fight.
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:17.119
I was just surprised that he was our number one marbling bull last year, or the highest marbling bull.
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.200
And I know that's got a lot to do with the dam.
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:19.920
Sure, sure.
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:21.039
Sure, you bet.
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:23.680
You know, because it's I think it's 50-50, you know.
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:27.920
So some people will test their bulls, test everything.
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:31.839
You know, we everything that we put our bulls through, we put our heifers through.
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:36.880
You know, um, so um, because it's it's it's a 50-50 input.
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:42.079
Yeah, and what's unique is like let's talk about Katsukari, just uh a bull.
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:48.319
Yeah, Katsukari is a ribeye maker, big ribeyes, and his marbling's about medium, okay.
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:56.559
Yeah, um, ribeye, uh Red Emperor, for example, he can be a super ribeye, but also he can be a medium ribeye.
00:29:56.799 --> 00:29:57.039
Sure.
00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:08.079
But when we looked at we've got five cows, we're flushing here in about a week, and we were looking, okay, that's got a very high IMF, not such a big ribeye.
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:08.480
Sure.
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:15.039
And so we're able to pick the bulls that we know, hey, that's got a better ribeye and a decent IMF.
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:24.960
So now we are really able to zone in on our matings, yeah, and we are making animals that are better every generation.
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:29.440
Um we've had two in that 400-day range that hit prime.
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:30.559
Two of them.
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:40.079
You know, and so when you have an animal that's 13, 14, 15 months of age that hit hits low prime with 11, 11 and a half inch ribeye, now we're talking.
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:43.759
You know, because now you know you got a 14-month animal.
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:47.279
All we need now is a little bit more weight, and that's it.
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:48.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:56.880
And uh and I'm gonna do another plug for another bull that a lot of people don't look at very often, but Red Galaxy, he's a beast.
00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:57.839
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
00:30:58.319 --> 00:30:58.960
He is a beast.
00:30:59.119 --> 00:30:59.519
Yep, yep.
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:04.319
And uh, I know a lot of people don't like him, but I mean we throw him in the herd as much as we can.
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:05.519
We love Red Galaxy.
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:06.160
You bet.
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:06.400
Yep.
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:13.599
Well, and if I'm not mistaken, off the top of my head, I want to say Red Galaxy would be a full brother in blood to the dam of Rushaw Max.
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:16.559
And so if you take a look at those pedigrees and the way they line up, exactly.
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:29.039
You know, I mean we've had great luck with Red Galaxy as well, you know, and so it's one of those that you take a look at at yeah, just just from hearsay, someone might say, well, you know, because Tamil Maru is just for length, right?
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:36.799
He can't marble, you know, or or red galaxy is just for muscle, because he has such a thick bowl, you know, he can't be for marbling, you know, or it couldn't be for some of these other traits.
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:46.799
And and I think it does make people overlook so and or the fact that you know red red galaxy semen is comparatively cost effective, that he's not necessarily a bull selling for 25,000 a straw, for example.
00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:53.039
And and so people will overlook those individuals and say, well, that there couldn't be the value there, but it's just for lack of of hard data.
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:55.039
Yeah, you know, that's what it is, right?
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:55.279
Right.
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:58.720
You know, and I looked at the AWA, they have their sire list.
00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:00.640
I think it's a year old or two years old.
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:03.759
And Red Galaxy's the top IMF bull.
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:04.640
Yes, yep.
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:07.680
And um X14 popped up.
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:16.240
Yeah, you know, because number two has always been weird, but I I watched I saw it one month and it was um who's the number two?
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:17.920
Gosh, I'm gonna have to cut that.
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:19.359
That's part of it.
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:20.400
It's uh recital.
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:21.279
Yeah, okay, yep.
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:25.039
It was number two, but then all of a sudden X14 was number two.
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:29.200
And I'm like, well, wait a minute, X14 wasn't even the in the top ten.
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:29.920
Right, right.
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:35.279
And then the next time X14 is gone, not in the top ten, and recital's back in at number two, huh?
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:38.720
So it's like see that data is just strange.
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:40.319
Right, right, right, yeah.
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:42.640
Um, so we bought some recital from you.
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:43.200
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:48.960
And uh we've got a bunch of calves out of him calving um here in September.
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:49.440
Good.
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:51.440
So uh yeah, we're excited about it.
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:56.799
And yeah, we did uh we've got one cow, Y38, that is a full embryo sib.
00:32:56.880 --> 00:33:00.640
It was the same embryo out of the Red Galaxy batch, so it's a full sister.
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:05.599
Yeah, and I know people are gonna cringe when I say this, but we bred her back to Red Galaxy.
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:06.960
Sure, double, yeah.
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:08.240
Well, let's see what she does.
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:11.359
And I saw her inbreeding, I'm like, well, that's a winner.
00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:12.319
Sure, yeah.
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:15.359
I might have a record here, you know.
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:18.079
But uh EPDs don't look great.
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:21.920
You know, it's funny because you have uh uh identical Red Galaxy.
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:33.359
Um, and so uh, but the truth is when we get to get them up old enough, yeah, you know, and um we bought a a herd, or not pretty much of a herd from another rancher.
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:36.480
Yeah, and we acquired um four X14s.
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:42.880
Yeah, and uh one of them is a full sib to Nikki, um, which has been a great bull for everybody.
00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:43.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:45.279
And uh her dad is good.
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:48.240
Okay, so you know that's that's a plus.
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:55.200
Um the three other heifers we haven't tested yet, they're not old enough, but sure this later this year they'll be into our system.
00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:59.599
So I'm excited to see if X14 is really worth the squeeze.
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:00.880
Yes, yeah, yeah.
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:02.559
No, absolutely, absolutely.
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:06.880
Are there any other individual individuals that come to mind as far as being particularly good?
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:10.079
We've talked about Rushaw Max, you know, came right to the front.
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:26.079
Um, you know, Red Galaxy's done well on the female side, some of your 121 influenced cattle or 121s are, you know, yeah, and anything else that comes to mind as far as particular individuals, male or female, that have come to the front in any one of these metrics between gain, feed efficiency, IMF, or ribeye.
00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:31.199
You know, I think every animal that we've used has his strong points and his weak points.
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:31.920
Sure, of course.
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:32.480
Yeah, absolutely.
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:35.519
So I I can't say there's one overall.
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:39.760
I will tell you that every red galaxy we've ever done has been great.
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:46.079
Um, we used to when we had a lot more blacks, we used to put red galaxy over them, and the meat was incredible.
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:47.119
Yeah, you know.
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:57.599
Um but uh I really think it it comes down to m using the strong points one animal to fill in the weak points of the other.
00:34:57.920 --> 00:34:59.440
Right, right, complimentary meat, yeah.
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:05.119
And we would never know that, we would never be able to do that without the data we have.
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:07.280
You know, yeah, absolutely.
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:19.920
Just like everybody, I think we have some very good animals, but um, when I broke it down for this flush, I'm really looking at it and I'm thinking, there's five animals that I really want to reproduce.
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:20.719
Yeah.
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:30.719
Out of our not that I wouldn't do most of our hood herd, but those five animals, I'm like, that's what I want to build the the rest of this herd out with.
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:31.519
Sure, sure.
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:32.480
You bet, you bet.
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:34.639
And it you know, it used to be eye appeal.
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:35.199
Yeah, right.
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:36.559
Right, yeah, yeah.
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:39.199
But uh it's it's a lot more than that.
00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:43.360
And I think that um we just need to share that data and get it out.
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:44.559
You bet, you know, you bet.
00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:46.800
And that's kind of why we started that educational event.
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:47.199
Sure.
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:48.559
You know, we wanted to share data.
00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:50.880
Yeah, yeah, you bet, you bet, absolutely.
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:52.239
And kind of grow the breed.
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:56.559
You know, Missouri is one of the largest memberships of the AWA.
00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:57.119
Oh, really?
00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:01.360
And it was because when we started The Passion for Prime, it was always in Missouri.
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:01.760
Uh-huh.
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:05.199
And so we had so many people coming for that event from Missouri.
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:09.599
Yeah, I think it was either the second or third largest state in the country for for membership.
00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:10.079
Interesting.
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:13.119
You know, I have I don't know the metrics on the Akeyushi Association.
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:13.519
Sure.
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:19.199
You know, like a lot of breeders, we're trying to register with all three associations and writing checks as fast as we can.
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:19.920
Right.
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:20.559
Right.
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:22.000
To get them registered.
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:22.400
Yeah.
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:25.280
Um, but uh, I think that will change in the future.
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:25.840
Sure.
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:36.559
You know, I think really the Reds, a lot of people want the AWA or the Australian, but it's really the Akiushi association that that if you're doing Reds, that you need to get your data in there.
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:36.960
Right.
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:39.840
Yeah, because that's where your that's where your customers are.
00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:40.559
Right, right.
00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:55.440
Well, and in that in that setting, your data is going head to head with other red Wagyu or Akiushi, as opposed to being compared to Black Wagyu, which that's one of the challenges, because I'm like you, I work with all three, all three databases with American Wagyu, Australian Wagyu, and up and American Akiushi.
00:36:55.760 --> 00:37:07.920
But in in two of the three, in the two Wagyu associations, they are taking our our red Wagyu data or Akuchi data, and it gets run head to head against it's technically a separate and distinct breed, you know, both both of Japanese origin, right?
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:12.480
And both are Wagyu by definition in the sense they're of Japanese origin, but two separate and distinct breeds.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:13.119
Totally different.
00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:26.079
And so our red wagyu or Akiushi in the in the Wagyu databases get discounted as if they all were monstrously heavy at birth and none of them ever marbled, is is the default setting on all of the EPDs, you know, if you were to look at them that way.
00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:29.119
So and uh I think that we need to build that data.
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:34.639
Yeah, you know, because I think it's gonna help every breeder, you know, especially for the commercial buyers.
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:39.280
You know, when we sell our bulls, I would say 90% of our bulls go to commercial breeders.
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:40.079
Yeah, absolutely.
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:42.000
You know, so and they want that data.
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:48.079
Yeah, you know, hey, you know, I can pick up my my Angus or my Charlet and I got all the data I want.
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:49.840
Yeah, you know, how come you don't have data?
00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:50.960
Right, right, right.
00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:53.519
And then you have to explain, well, new breed.
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:54.480
Sure, sure.
00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:55.280
Yep, yep.
00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:03.039
And uh, but then again, the data that we collect is only as good as the data we implant or input into the meeting.
00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:03.519
Right.
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:08.559
When when I was on the AW AWA board, we were just starting EPDs.
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:16.000
It's when we first started it, and everybody's mad because we don't have EPDs, but when we started it, nobody wanted to submit their data.
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:23.280
Right, right, right, but they're mad because we don't have the data, but it's like, well, if you don't submit data, we can't create data.
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:23.920
Right, right.
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:26.880
So it's it's it's a little bit of a challenge.
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:27.840
Oh, absolutely.
00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:35.760
If you're wanting to be a seed stock producer, and everybody's different, I think any way you run your ranch, if it's profitable, God bless you.
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:36.159
Sure.
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:42.480
If you're a meat person or you know, you're selling calves or whatever you're doing, if it works for you, do it.
00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:42.960
Yeah.
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:49.199
But um, if you want to be a seed stock producer, especially going forward, you're gonna have to collect the data.
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:50.079
Right, right.
00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:50.960
No, absolutely.
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:58.800
Well, and I think it's an interesting thing is as I look at the evolution of the breed, you know, or even in my short time in the breed, because you've been in it for decades.
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:01.440
I've been in since 2018, would have been when I got involved.
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:03.599
So the last eight years, less than a decade for me.
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:09.760
And I've already, even in that short a time frame, I've seen it evolve from any given Akuchi is worth a pile.
00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:10.239
Sure.
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:16.800
To then it was only if they were for a short moment there, if they were polled, they're worth a pile, and that's what everybody wanted, you know.
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:21.679
And then the next thing after that was, well, they had to be dual or triple registered, and that was what everybody wanted.
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:27.920
And then the next thing after that was, well, there has to be foundation bread or from really rare, valuable semen, and that's what everybody wanted.
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:31.760
And and you know, each of those things, I guess, had had its moment in the sun.
00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:40.639
But I've always thought, you know, coming from an Angus background myself, just like you mentioned, there's always been actionable data saying, hey, that this is what works and this is what doesn't.
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:47.119
And if someone's gonna come and invest their hard-earned dollars with me as a seed stock provider, it had better do what I said it was gonna do.
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:55.920
You know, not like, well, the the pedigree said it should have been, or, you know, we think it should be alright, heard on on Facebook, you know, that this pedigree does whatever.
00:39:56.079 --> 00:40:01.199
We've got to be able to show, no, this is indeed what you'll get if you invest in these genetics.
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:06.960
And I think everyone has as seed stock breeders, we've got to be willing to take on that personal responsibility.
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:30.880
And that's been a common theme through several of my conversations we've had here at the Akiushi convention with several breeders that we've had here on the podcast, is saying, hey, we need to take personal responsibility for gathering data on our own herds because it is it is not, as I sit here or as any of us sit here at the association meetings, it is not the responsibility of the association as if that were some arbitrary human being or one individual like somewhere else.
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:33.679
It is their job to provide us with data.
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:35.039
Like we are the association.
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:35.519
That's right.
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:36.079
You know what I mean?
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:50.719
Each of us individually have to feed that data set and to expect there to just be one provided and provided right now for free by someone else, and it's got to be accurate or it's their fault, frankly, it is shirking responsibility as a seed stock breeder.
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:55.119
You know, I think each of us has got to be willing to put in that time, put in that money, put in that effort.
00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:58.000
Because it is, it's it's challenging, it's slow, it's cumbersome.
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:00.320
And if you'd rather not do it, that's totally fine.
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:05.039
But you're probably better off to be in selling beef or be in just selling commercial calves.
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:25.440
You know, if we're gonna sell seed stock as something that should create value for breeders further down that supply chain in the live calf space or in the beef space, I can't tell them to invest in my genetics unless I can say, hey, in our data set here, you know, in the data we've collected, this is what came to the top or bottom and all these different points of evaluation.
00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:34.880
Everything from birth weight to weaning weight to yearling weight, rate of gain, carcass ultrasound results, fertility, longevity, all anything we can measure, we can and should measure.
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:43.920
You know, and then you can use that for comparative analysis and identify who needs to be beef, who needs to just be a cow, and the few that should go forward as a donor or a stuff.
00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:44.880
Yeah, exactly.
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:50.159
I mean, look at tonight at the convention sale, some high dollar animals test a pretty impressive sale.
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:55.519
I was impressed with the the quality of the animals, yeah, and I was really impressed with the prices.
00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:56.079
Yeah.
00:41:56.400 --> 00:42:02.719
But you know, a a lot of these breeders are gonna go back after spending 20 or 30 grand on a donor.
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:03.360
Sure.
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:06.159
And they're probably not gonna collect more data.
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:06.559
Sure.
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:14.800
You know, and if you're gonna if you're gonna invest two grand, much less twenty or thirty or plus, I I hope you get that data.
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:24.000
You know, because to me, that's what's going to give you that twenty or thirty thousand, fifteen thousand dollar offspring is because you have data.
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:24.719
Right, right.
00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:31.760
And uh I there's a big breeder in the Reds, and uh he called me up and he goes, You're gonna make me do it, aren't you?
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:33.840
I said, make you do what?
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:36.159
He goes, get a feed efficiency system.
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:56.800
And I said, Well, sir, yeah, I said, I'm not making you, yeah, but I think as time goes on and this information is uh more widely understood and seen, yeah, because even though we've been doing it the feed efficiency for a couple years and we've done ultrasound forever, yeah, um, it's still very few people know about it.
00:42:57.039 --> 00:42:57.199
Sure.
00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:11.360
You know, and and when you look at the power rankings, you know, if if I told you we had a uh two uh 2.3 average day of the gain or a 3.11, you'd understand, well, I'd rather have the three point one one pounds a day.
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:11.760
Yeah.
00:43:12.159 --> 00:43:19.199
But in reality, if you're taking a 17-month animal and you're just feeding it what I call a field ration, sure.
00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:22.639
Um three pounds a day plus is incredible.
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:23.119
Oh, yeah.
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:25.039
I mean it is right, yeah.
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:28.960
If it was in the steer pin, I would be going, maybe you should be doing a little bit better.
00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:29.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:31.599
You know, and and we're very careful with that.
00:43:31.760 --> 00:43:34.239
I mean, I like a lot of people, we use protocol.
00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:34.559
Yeah.
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:38.159
Jimmy came out, we hired him as a consultant, and he made all of our rations.
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:48.239
And right um, we've got a nutritionist from Purina that comes out and and kind of tells us, you know, use this many pounds per you know, pounds of weight.
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:54.000
Um you know, when we got that, we had to buy a grinder, which is probably the best thing I did anyway.
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:55.119
Sure, I'm sure.
00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:59.039
You know, because the less waste, yeah, um, better digest digestible.
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:02.239
Um So uh we were happy with that.
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:02.800
Yeah.
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:11.440
My CPA, when I bought all that equipment because it was expensive, and then the infrastructure to put it in, my CPA goes, Mike, you're 63.
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:13.920
Uh what are you doing?
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:19.199
You know, I'm like, hey, when I'm 83, if I want to do something, I'm gonna do it.
00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:20.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:26.320
You know, so uh yeah, I I I think this is I I think like most breeders, you get addicted to this.
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:26.719
Sure.
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:32.320
I mean, like when I was a kid and you know, I I collected beer cans, uh you know, and I was passionate.
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:35.599
I could tell you about any beer can, you know, that was a long time ago.
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:40.880
But now it's like you're trading baseball cards, you know, I'll trade you a Rushaw for some of you.
00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:46.079
You know, yeah, and uh and that's something like Earl Rowe, a good friend of ours.
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:46.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:47.519
I like Earl.
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:52.079
Um, he like forever we would either call each other what's in the tank.
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:56.880
Uh he'd be going, okay, I'll trade you this for this.
00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:01.119
And but what a great way, especially for a new breeder, to build your herd.
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:01.440
Sure.
00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:10.880
Is to swap genetics and barter because now you're you're getting outside genetics of your herd, yeah, and it's not costing you an arm and a leg.
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:13.199
So I highly encourage that.
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:13.519
Yeah.
00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:15.360
Um I I do it today.
00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:18.320
Yeah, you know, if somebody calls and said I want to do something, sure.
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:19.760
I'm like, well, what's in your tank?
00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:21.119
Right, right, right, exactly.
00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:22.400
Let's see what we can do.
00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:23.199
Right, right.
00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:25.920
Uh but no, I love the breed, I love the people.
00:45:26.559 --> 00:45:29.280
Um, for the most part, the people are great.
00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:31.280
Um for the most part.
00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:32.000
Sure, sure.
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:37.519
You know, and say there there's always in any group of cows or in any group of people, there's generally a sort somewhere.
00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:39.199
Sure.
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:41.760
That's that's part of life.
00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:42.320
Yeah, yeah.
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:48.400
But uh I think if you're doing cattle, if you can learn how to shave and take pictures, you can make a lot of money.
00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:49.280
Sure, sure.
00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:51.760
Yeah, we we attempted that here a few months ago.
00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:52.239
Sure.
00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:55.119
And I was never so black and blue in my life.
00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:58.719
And I'm like, no wonder they make so much money.
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:01.840
I've gotten kicked so many times trying to shave these cows.
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:02.400
Right.
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:03.360
You know, yeah.
00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:06.320
But uh no, it's it's it's been a great thing.
00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:09.679
I always said my farm will keep me alive forever or it's gonna kill me.
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:11.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:16.559
But absolutely there's no place I'd rather be to go out there and watch the cows.
00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:21.199
It's I know for some people if they're not in the industry, they may not understand that.
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:22.239
Sure, sure.
00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:23.360
There's a lot to it.
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:25.440
I mean, just it's it's calming.
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:30.880
Yeah, you know, and uh I you know, I I I always say, you know, we bred this, but it's God's creation.
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:32.159
Yeah, yeah, you know, absolutely.
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:34.320
And I give him the all the credit.
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:38.559
But uh it's nice that we're trying to to breed that better animal.
00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:38.960
Right.
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:41.119
And we're trying to use the data to do it.
00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:43.039
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:51.360
You know, and and a couple of points I wanted to touch on from what you'd mentioned there, and and talking about contemporary groups, you talked about your field ration, you know, versus like a steer ration.
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:54.480
And I think that's one really important thing for people to understand.
00:46:54.559 --> 00:47:15.440
And this is one of the reasons, even for me personally, I'm always a little leery to share the raw data set only because if someone took my raw data set that's coming off of of grass or coming off of forage only and compared it to animals that were getting 20 plus pounds of grain per day, they'd say, well, then that that means that Ceth's genetics have no value versus these others that were getting fed like crazy.
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:16.480
They must have all the value.
00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:21.599
I'm like, actually, the difference between the two sets is not near so much genetic as it is environmental, right?
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:34.719
I mean, you're both most base level uh biology classes, you know, we're gonna tell you phenotype or the expression, you know, whether we're talking IMF or whether we're talking rate of gain or whatever else, equals genotype G plus E, environment.
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:43.760
You know, and it is both components are at play, both the genetic component and environment, things like feed are in play when we look at things like rate of gain or marbling deposition.
00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:49.840
And so I think it's important when people take a look at hard data sets, you understand you need to compare within that data.
00:47:50.079 --> 00:47:51.840
That's what defines a contemporary group.
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:52.159
Exactly.
00:47:52.320 --> 00:48:07.920
As we say, I'm gonna compare these heifers on this ration at this age to these heifers on this ration at this age, and not take them out of context and say, well, now we're gonna compare them to this steer that's a year older and has been on drastically hotter feed for 300 days.
00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:09.440
Because it wouldn't be a fair comparison.
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:22.239
If we were to compare the two hard metrics and assume that were the end-all be-all of genetic merit, well, then the only thing that would ever win would be whatever was oldest and it had the most feed poured at it, it would have nothing to do with genetics.
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:28.239
It would have to do with age and it would have to do with ration, because that that's what would just pile gain and or marbling into them.
00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:30.239
It's pretty straightforward in that sense.
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:36.719
So that's why when I talk to people, you know, I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm just saying this is what we do.
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:37.519
Sure, yeah.
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:44.320
And it's kind of industry, you know, when we get our ultrasound data and when we do our feed efficiency.
00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:52.559
But if everybody would kind of follow a general we would be able to be able to compare them across herds a little easier.
00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:52.800
Yep.
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:56.800
You know, and I think the more people that do that, the more data we're gonna get.
00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:58.480
And I wish everybody did it.
00:48:58.639 --> 00:48:58.800
Sure.
00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:05.920
Could you imagine the data we would the animals we could give or the genetics we might have an opportunity to buy with hard data?
00:49:06.159 --> 00:49:06.400
Yep.
00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:07.679
It'd be incredible.
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:09.920
Well, and and it needs done, like you'd mentioned.
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:15.519
I mean, you can take a big broad set of full siblings, exact same size, exact same damn.
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:17.679
And my siblings aren't as good looking as I am either.
00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:22.159
You know, it's my wife would roll her eyes at that joke.
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:24.239
I've told that's one of about five I have, you know.
00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:26.400
And my poor wife's heard them all way too many times.
00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:33.599
But that's but you know, honestly, if we if we don't have a chance to identify the differences, we just assume, well, but inherently they're equal.
00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:37.840
You know, they they share a sire, they share a damn, they must be the same, you know.
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:43.199
And it's just like you talked about, I mean, identifying an individual like Rushaw Max that we'll use as an example.
00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:53.360
You know, Rushaw Max, that's wonderful, he's come to the top, he's come to the front, we're saying, hey, this is a bull you can tie into with confidence to move forward on these these traits that matter to you that you're measuring in your operation.
00:49:53.519 --> 00:50:00.239
But then if all we did is say, well, this is where it ends, is anything that's a Rushaw Max must must inherently all be perfect, right?
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:03.199
Because the bull himself came to the no.
00:50:03.280 --> 00:50:10.719
Within within his calves, there'll be a range, you know, and hopefully he's moving the average of everything in the right direction or towards those those established targets.
00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:18.559
But among his offspring, hopefully, you know, you measure all of them, and again, even among, even though the average is improved, there'll still be a bottom end to cut.
00:50:18.639 --> 00:50:20.880
There'll still be some average animals to just run as cows.
00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:24.880
And hopefully, hopefully, there's a calf in there somewhere that'll outdo his sire.
00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:26.400
And that's the next step forward.
00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:28.719
You know, and I mean that that's breeding cattle in a nutshell.
00:50:29.199 --> 00:50:30.639
And I'm success in breeding cattle.
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:31.599
Right, absolutely.
00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:34.719
And I mean, that's that's I I'm just using Rushaw Max as an example.
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:36.800
I mean, it's the same like I mentioned with 121.
00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:41.199
You'd say, hey, you hope you find an individual better among her offspring, right?
00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:42.800
And then in the next generation down.
00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:55.920
But you'd have to gather the data to know, because if you don't gather the data, it's just like your example with buying a$20 or$30,000 donor, and then all she ever is for the rest or forever is say, well, she's a$20,000,$30,000 donor, so the rest must inherently be good.
00:50:56.079 --> 00:51:01.280
We've never measured anything about any of them to know if they were or they weren't, or who was best or who was worse, or who was whatever.
00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:08.960
You know, we don't ever move forward beyond that one day that, like, yeah, yeah, this animal, this one time on this one day in this one setting, you know, it's worthwhile.
00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:11.199
And I'm not trying to take anything away from those animals at all.
00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:11.519
Right.
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:12.960
I'm just saying we want to continue.
00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:17.679
I I'd love to see the the buyers of those those genetics continue to move them forward, right?
00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:20.559
I'd love to see Rushaw Max continue to move forward your bowl.
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:24.480
I'd love to see 121, my donor, continue to move forward in all those settings for all of us.
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:29.119
That's the point of identifying the best, is is to make them better yet in the next generation.
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:31.920
I mean, that's that's I would hope is the goal for about anybody.
00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:37.519
Probably 121, in my opinion, is the best dam in the breed.
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:43.920
I would find it I would argue with about anybody if they said, no, I got a better dam.
00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:45.679
You know, well, show me the data.
00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:46.880
Sure, right, right, right.
00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:48.000
Show me the data, right?
00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:48.800
Right.
00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:49.199
Yep.
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:52.079
Um she's just a powerhouse.
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:52.639
Mm-hmm.
00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:54.239
You know, I mean, she really is.
00:51:54.559 --> 00:51:56.800
Oh, absolutely, definitely a distinct individual.
00:51:57.119 --> 00:51:58.400
And I appreciate the kind words.
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:06.559
And that's one of the things I really appreciate, Mike, is that I mean, you've you've put all this time and effort and money into gathering all this data.
00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:11.920
And one, you're you're willing to share it, as opposed to saying, well, this is all kept really close to the chest.
00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:19.039
And two, you're not saying, like, well, the only thing that could ever come to the front is just like Rushaw Max, that's wonderful, and that's that's fantastic.
00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:23.280
And so appreciate that you have identified him, but you haven't said that's the only thing that ever came to the front.
00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:26.880
You you know, you've been willing to share, like, hey, here's a foundation bull that did well.
00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:33.599
You know, here's here's another, you know, in in Tamamuru, here's another um, I guess non-foundation bowl, but non-owned bull.
00:52:33.840 --> 00:52:37.199
You know, you don't own Red Galaxy, and you're wanna say, he's you know, and N121.
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:38.079
That's that's my donor.
00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:50.559
Anyway, I appreciate I see that I guess as very selfless of you to say, hey, you've put in the time and effort and money to gather the data, and you're not just using it to say, like, well, this all of this data says I'm king and no one else ever.
00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:51.920
Yeah.
00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:52.719
Yeah.
00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:55.119
I mean, unfortunately, not one animal.
00:52:55.519 --> 00:52:58.639
I think one year we had, because I like tamaroon and this.
00:52:58.880 --> 00:52:59.039
Yeah.
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:03.920
I mean, so oh, it's been about 10 years ago, but we made a bunch of tamaro embryos.
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:07.119
And out of that, God has made us a bull farm.
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:07.840
Right.
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:08.639
Right.
00:53:08.719 --> 00:53:08.880
Yeah.
00:53:09.199 --> 00:53:10.800
Shows how many bulls we have on the farm.
00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:11.119
Sure.
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:16.880
But I think we had like 11 or 13 tamaru sons from the same mating.
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:17.360
Yes.
00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:26.400
But out of, I can't remember if it was 11 of them or 13 of them, but the difference in those full sibling bulls was incredible.
00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:31.119
I mean, it's like, wow, how can the same embryo be so far?
00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:38.880
Yes, you know, and I think some of it could have been maybe the recep wasn't as good, or maybe that calf got sick at a young age.
00:53:39.039 --> 00:53:39.280
Yeah.
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:44.880
But still, with that many, and to look at that data, you're like, wow, uh huh, not every animal is a donor.
00:53:45.199 --> 00:53:45.920
Right, right, right.
00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:46.960
No, absolutely.
00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:47.519
Absolutely.
00:53:47.679 --> 00:53:52.079
You bet uh where I used to think, well, I got a whole field of donors.
00:53:52.239 --> 00:53:57.119
And when we started collecting the data, I'm like, wow, I have a few good donors.
00:53:57.440 --> 00:53:57.679
Right.
00:53:58.239 --> 00:53:58.880
Right, right.
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:09.440
Um, but I think it's great because when we can start using the strong points of one animal to fill in off a weak point of another animal, that to me is exciting.
00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:10.320
Sure, sure.
00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:14.559
I mean, I don't get out much, so I don't have that big, exciting life.
00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:18.400
But when I can do that, um, I'm like, this is cool.
00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:19.679
I can't wait to get the data.
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:21.119
All I gotta do is wait three years.
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:22.159
Right, right, right.
00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:23.519
Then we'll have that data.
00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:30.000
But yeah, I think with what we're doing is literally every year our data gets better.
00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:31.039
Every year.
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:31.519
Sure.
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:38.719
So I know you'd mentioned that there were a handful of cows that have come to the top for you, and hey, these are some individuals you really do want to multiply going forward.
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:45.360
Would you would you be willing to share who some of those five are and or what sires you're using on them to try to move them forward?
00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:46.000
Sure.
00:54:46.159 --> 00:54:50.559
Um we picked up uh David Christensen's herd.
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:54.480
Yeah, I don't know if it was his whole herd, but we picked up like 24 animals.
00:54:54.559 --> 00:54:54.880
Yep.
00:54:55.039 --> 00:54:59.599
And he had a judo daughter, and she's like a hundred years old.
00:54:59.840 --> 00:55:00.559
Yeah, yep, yep.
00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:01.280
I know the cow.
00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:02.880
Yeah, 47A, I think.
00:55:03.360 --> 00:55:03.840
Junior, yep.
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:04.559
Yeah, Junior.
00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:05.280
Yeah, I know her.
00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:05.519
Yep.
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:06.320
Big cow.
00:55:06.400 --> 00:55:08.079
I think she's close to 1,500 pounds.
00:55:08.320 --> 00:55:10.960
Got a bag of milk on her like a a dairy cow.
00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:11.440
Yep.
00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:13.920
Um, her IMF score.
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:16.320
Now, I didn't get her when she was young.
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:17.039
Sure, sure.
00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:17.519
Sure.
00:55:17.599 --> 00:55:18.480
We scanned her.
00:55:18.639 --> 00:55:20.800
We scanned her when she was nine months pregnant.
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:22.559
Okay, so she's carrying a calf.
00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:22.880
Sure.
00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:24.320
Because I just wanted to see what we had.
00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:24.480
Yeah.
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:28.559
When we bought those cattle, let's just see where they get where they hand, where they ended up.
00:55:28.639 --> 00:55:34.400
And we had we had about 12 that were young enough to go into our feed efficiency test, but we had some that were older.
00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:40.559
But she is a high marbler, like a 10 point two or something, which is high.
00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:41.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:55:41.440 --> 00:55:41.920
Right, right, right.
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:49.119
Um, and and she was, like I said, uh pregnant in nine months and obviously not getting a lot of feed.
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:50.000
Sure, sure.
00:55:50.159 --> 00:55:50.400
Yep.
00:55:50.559 --> 00:55:55.920
And then there's another animal, which is a DH, one of the DH cows.
00:55:56.159 --> 00:56:04.239
Um, I don't remember her genetics off the top, but another high marbler, but neither one of those had a a big ribeye.
00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:05.519
Okay, gotcha, sure.
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:09.519
And so those are the two I was talking about where we're coming back with like Katsukari.
00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:13.760
Yeah, because not a great a mid-grade marbler from what we've scanned.
00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:16.320
And we've we've only done four of them.
00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:18.639
So I'm not saying this is the way he is.
00:56:18.880 --> 00:56:19.519
Sure, but sure.
00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:21.760
They always have big ribeyes so far.
00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:23.519
Yeah, I mean above average.
00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:24.000
Yeah.
00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:29.920
Um we've got a red galaxy daughter that hit prime at 14 months of age.
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:30.159
Yep.
00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:31.840
Um, had a 12-inch ribeye.
00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:32.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:56:32.719 --> 00:56:35.360
So um, she's a donor we're doing right now.
00:56:35.679 --> 00:56:38.559
Um gosh, who else are we using right now?
00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:40.960
We've got a Tamaru daughter.
00:56:41.360 --> 00:56:43.440
Um, it's actually a Tamaro cow.
00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:43.840
Yep.
00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:47.920
And uh she's over Red Star and she's fantastic.
00:56:48.079 --> 00:56:54.800
She's got like a 12 and a half inch ribeye and like a 10 point something IMF as an older cow.
00:56:55.039 --> 00:57:04.400
Yeah, yeah, you know, so um, and there's a bull out right now that is a very good bull and uh another jury bull at a point.
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:12.960
Yeah, and he hit mid prime um at the Colorado um deal.
00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:18.559
And that was his claim to fame, but he was also uh 24 months old when he did it.
00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:19.360
Sure, sure.
00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:26.719
You know, and so that's what I think that when we look at those animals at 24 months, I'm hoping that most Wagyu hit prime.
00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:31.360
Okay, yeah, you know, especially if you're gonna put them in a show and you're you're dumping a bunch of feed in them.
00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:32.239
Sure, yeah, yeah.
00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:41.519
You know, but uh you know, we've got I I don't remember all of the genetics, but there's five we're working with, and two of them came from that purchase.
00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:43.360
I'm excited to get data on them.
00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:44.000
Sure.
00:57:44.239 --> 00:57:55.519
Um one of them was the one that we co-owned with Chuck Davis, DH Farms, and then we've got the Red Galaxy, and we've got a um which one did we decide to use?
00:57:57.760 --> 00:57:59.679
I don't remember at the top of my head.
00:57:59.920 --> 00:58:00.000
Sure.
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:04.159
But if anybody wanted to know, I'd share their data and show what we're breeding to.
00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:04.639
You bet.
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:12.000
And actually this time, the last time we um in December we made embryos, I used the recital because I hadn't used them yet.
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:13.760
You bet and we were reverse sorted.
00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:14.159
Yeah.
00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:16.480
Um got got a pretty good concept rate.
00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:18.079
We good at like 41%.
00:58:18.639 --> 00:58:18.800
Good.
00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:21.840
And it's sad because I'm saying that's a good concept rate.
00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:22.320
Sure.
00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:29.280
A long time ago, it w if we had a 70 percent 70 percent concept rate, it wasn't shocking to me.
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:32.000
And then it went down to like 30 percent.
00:58:32.159 --> 00:58:34.159
I'm like, what's going on with the embryos?
00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:37.599
Yeah, and I think a lot of it is the medium that's being used.
00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:38.159
Sure.
00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:43.840
But uh this time um we're using sex red emperor and red galaxy.
00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:44.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:58:44.800 --> 00:58:50.880
Because they fit the weaknesses of the animals um that we're that we're breeding to.
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:52.000
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:58:52.320 --> 00:59:04.400
I mean, simple breedings, everybody's got them in the herd, but I believe they're gonna be this will probably be our best batch of calves as long as we get embryos to make sure we get calves on the ground that we've ever made.
00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:04.960
You bet.
00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:06.800
If the data stays true.
00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:07.760
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:09.760
And so I'm excited about it.
00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:11.440
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:29.119
So if you're looking forward at your herd at large, you know, that's kind of the direction you're moving, is you've gathered this data, it can now inform today's breeding decisions, which hopefully moves that data further towards your established targets, towards higher marbling, larger ribeyes, faster rate of gain, less feed to produce that gain.
00:59:29.360 --> 00:59:32.880
Is there anything else that you would you would add or throw in for any of these new breeders?
00:59:33.039 --> 00:59:35.039
We talked about education and the importance of that.
00:59:35.199 --> 00:59:49.679
Is there anything else you'd like to touch on in particular as we kind of wrap up here, Mike, that you'd like to see or you'd like to share with a new breeder, somebody maybe at convention for the first time, or considering coming to the WAGU Super event and/or your educational event in October?
00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:51.920
Well, first off, talk to a lot of breeders.
00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:53.920
Yeah, there's a lot of good breeders out there.
00:59:54.400 --> 00:59:56.800
Second off, don't believe anything you read online.
00:59:57.119 --> 00:59:59.840
I don't care who post it, don't believe it.
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:02.880
Um, and if somebody unless me or Mike posted it.
01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:03.519
That's right.
01:00:03.599 --> 01:00:05.039
Then it's hard facts.
01:00:05.840 --> 01:00:07.360
Those guys you can trust.
01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:10.639
But um, you know, collect your data.
01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:11.039
Yeah.
01:00:11.199 --> 01:00:13.119
I don't care if it's just collect your weights.
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:14.159
Right, right, right, yeah.
01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:14.719
Start with something.
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:16.480
Everything is important to you.
01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:17.039
Absolutely.
01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:18.320
Keep records.
01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:18.719
Yes.
01:00:18.880 --> 01:00:19.599
You know, yes.
01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:25.920
We started off with like everybody, we have all of our animals, all their full bloods, who they're registered with, their birth dates.
01:00:26.079 --> 01:00:26.400
Sure.
01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:32.159
And our our spreadsheets have gotten longer and longer and longer as we start to collect more data points.
01:00:32.320 --> 01:00:32.400
Right.
01:00:32.719 --> 01:00:35.920
You know, so it's not on one page, we're kind of folding it over and looking across.
01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:44.960
So it gets a little bit confusing, but I would really tell people never, and I've said it a hundred times, never chase the hottest bull.
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:45.920
Sure, sure.
01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:48.239
You know, uh, especially if you're on the black side.
01:00:48.400 --> 01:00:48.559
Yeah.
01:00:48.719 --> 01:00:49.679
There's yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:51.599
You know, this month it's this bull.
01:00:51.920 --> 01:00:52.400
Right, right.
01:00:52.639 --> 01:00:54.079
It's only 10,000 a straw.
01:00:54.239 --> 01:00:54.639
Right, right.
01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:56.079
But next month it's this bull.
01:00:56.400 --> 01:00:59.840
And then when the hides come off, it was like, well, that's not right.
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:00.559
Right, right.
01:01:01.119 --> 01:01:02.000
Right, yep, yep.
01:01:02.320 --> 01:01:06.960
I think uh ABS said their number one selling bull a few years ago was uh United.
01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:12.000
Um they sold more United than any other uh bull of any breed.
01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:18.400
And he had great and he's a good bull, but when the hides started coming off, his data dropped hard.
01:01:18.639 --> 01:01:19.039
Uh-huh.
01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:19.280
Yep.
01:01:19.519 --> 01:01:22.719
You know, so I I I just don't chase the hottest fad.
01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:23.199
Sure.
01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:28.239
You know, there's a lot of good bulls out there that have a lot of good data, and that's a great place to start.
01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:29.440
Yes, yes, yeah.
01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:30.880
Watch your carcass data.
01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:35.119
You know, a a lot of people go, Well, you don't know what you got until you take the hide off.
01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:38.880
And I kind of argue that because when you take the hide off, it's over.
01:01:39.360 --> 01:01:43.199
You know, I want to know what it's doing way earlier than that.
01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:43.679
Yes.
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:50.559
And uh and I really think the only way to do to see that data is that live ultrasound scan.
01:01:50.639 --> 01:01:50.800
Yeah.
01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:57.840
And a live ultrasound scan, if you got a if you got a scale and a squeeze chute, I think we pay maybe$25 a scan.
01:01:58.079 --> 01:01:58.480
Right, right.
01:01:58.880 --> 01:02:02.000
Um be careful when you do the scan.
01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:08.159
Um I I especially if you're doing blacks because they cut the calves tend to be a little bit smaller at that age.
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:08.559
Sure.
01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:10.559
And if they're too small, they can't pick it up.
01:02:10.639 --> 01:02:11.360
Yeah, yeah.
01:02:11.599 --> 01:02:16.079
If you've never seen an ultrasound scan, they've got a wand that kind of runs on the rib cage.
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:21.920
And if it's too big, they're not gonna either pick up the IMF, and so you're gonna have to come back and scan them again.
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:22.400
Sure.
01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:26.880
And so on the wegu, red or black, you want them to be at least 600 pounds.
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:27.519
Yeah, yeah.
01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:28.159
Yep, yeah.
01:02:28.320 --> 01:02:33.920
But try to keep it in that early data because you you'll be able to find what animal matures early.
01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:34.400
Sure.
01:02:34.639 --> 01:02:43.519
The most important data you could put in your books, in my opinion, is to get that animal that at a young age has already got a big ribeye, they've got high marbling.
01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:50.400
And if you can get someplace that's got feed efficiency, we thought about buying more units and then taking animals in.
01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:50.880
Sure.
01:02:51.199 --> 01:02:54.480
I'm I'm really scared to bring animals on my farm.
01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:55.119
Sure, yeah.
01:02:55.280 --> 01:02:55.440
Sure.
01:02:55.679 --> 01:02:56.400
Yeah, yep, yep.
01:02:56.639 --> 01:03:02.079
Um years ago, um we started we we started testing for things.
01:03:02.559 --> 01:03:10.400
And when I was on the board, we'd go out to the National Western Stock Show and SEK Genetics out of Kansas, yeah, they had a booth across from us.
01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:15.280
And when the Wagyu show was going on, I stayed in the booth because I didn't want the booth to be unmanned.
01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:19.679
And so I would ask the guy that owns SEK, I'm like, so what is it this year?
01:03:19.840 --> 01:03:21.679
He goes, This year it's Neospora.
01:03:21.920 --> 01:03:22.239
Uh-huh.
01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:22.639
Yeah, yeah.
01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:23.840
What is that herd of?
01:03:24.159 --> 01:03:24.320
Uh-huh.
01:03:24.559 --> 01:03:26.719
He goes, Oh, test your herd for free.
01:03:26.880 --> 01:03:27.199
Uh-huh.
01:03:27.360 --> 01:03:29.679
But if I find one animal, you gotta pay me double.
01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:30.079
Uh-huh.
01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:37.440
You know, so there's a lot of animals, but I've known people that bought animals from another farm to find out they had yonis.
01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:37.760
Right.
01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:42.400
And that breeder could never sell an animal as seed stock.
01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:46.320
And uh so I'm highly sensitive.
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:56.559
Even when we bring our animals in to be IVF'd, um sometimes we've worked with Blue STEM, a great shop out in Kansas, and they would keep my cattle at their hay farm.
01:03:56.880 --> 01:03:58.559
They would bring them in, work them, and put them back.
01:03:58.800 --> 01:03:58.960
Yeah.
01:03:59.119 --> 01:04:05.840
Um, so I would really be careful when you're buying animals before you put them into your herd, test them.
01:04:06.159 --> 01:04:06.400
Sure.
01:04:06.639 --> 01:04:16.239
Um, if you go to S S S K S E K in Kansas, I think one vial of blood you can test for Yonis, B V D, Neospora, maybe anioplasm.
01:04:16.400 --> 01:04:17.440
It's like 25 bucks.
01:04:17.599 --> 01:04:17.760
Right.
01:04:17.840 --> 01:04:17.920
Right.
01:04:18.079 --> 01:04:19.360
That's the best money you can spend.
01:04:19.519 --> 01:04:19.679
Yeah.
01:04:19.760 --> 01:04:19.920
Yeah.
01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:23.039
You know, because that way if there's an issue, you catch it early.
01:04:23.280 --> 01:04:23.760
Sure, sure.
01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:26.880
Because if you don't catch it early, when you do catch it, you're in trouble.
01:04:27.119 --> 01:04:27.519
Right, right.
01:04:28.239 --> 01:04:28.559
Yep, yep.
01:04:28.719 --> 01:04:30.960
And so I would hate to see somebody spend a lot of money.
01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:31.360
Right.
01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:32.960
You know, or if you buy recips.
01:04:33.119 --> 01:04:36.559
A lot of people buy dairy recips or they go to the cell barn to buy recips.
01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:37.119
Right, right.
01:04:37.199 --> 01:04:38.719
And that starts getting dangerous in a hurry.
01:04:38.880 --> 01:04:39.760
It's absolute insanity.
01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:40.400
Yeah, yeah.
01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:49.440
I say when I see people using dairy recips, when when dare and it's always tempting because I get it, I'm like dairy cows are very available, you know, and and they sure enough milk hard.
01:04:49.599 --> 01:04:53.440
But it's uh, you know, the average dairy cow's done when she's six or seven years of age.
01:04:53.599 --> 01:04:55.360
They don't even even know she had yonis.
01:04:55.440 --> 01:04:58.800
They don't care if she had yonis because they were all going to be done at six or seven anyway.
01:04:58.960 --> 01:05:06.239
But when your whole beef herd at six or seven years old starts to waste away because the intestinal wall has thickened and they are terminal with yonis.
01:05:06.320 --> 01:05:13.440
And the worst of it is now you've got it in the herd and you you've got it through multiple generations, and yonis is almost impossible to test around.
01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:15.199
You can get false negatives on that.
01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:17.920
And so I mean it's a terrifying disease in that sense.
01:05:18.079 --> 01:05:23.440
And so I tell people, I mean, of all the things of all the things to do, don't use dairy recips.
01:05:23.599 --> 01:05:27.199
Although and I hate, I mean, I I I don't want to disparage anybody in any sense.
01:05:27.280 --> 01:05:35.199
I but I just say that as a as a word of warning to say, hey, you're you've invested all this time and effort and money in these good cows and making these embryos and everything else.
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:38.400
And I understand the temptation to go stick them in a dairy recip.
01:05:38.800 --> 01:05:40.800
Don't go stick them in a dairy recip.
01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:49.280
The yonis are heavier in the dairy breed than the cattle breed because they're so compacted compared to confinement.
01:05:49.840 --> 01:05:56.079
But between the confinement and then the fact that, yeah, I mean, most of those dairy cows wouldn't survive until you see the yonis anyway.
01:05:56.239 --> 01:05:59.039
You know, I mean most dairy cows are spent before they're six or seven.
01:05:59.119 --> 01:06:00.480
Whereas a beef Cow.
01:06:00.639 --> 01:06:05.039
I mean, the old rule of thumb was always that a beef cow hadn't paid for herself until she's six or seven.
01:06:05.119 --> 01:06:08.639
She needs to produce past that to produce a profit in a commercial setting.
01:06:08.880 --> 01:06:13.760
And so if they're all all of a sudden wasting away at six or seven, that that's that's terrifying.
01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:14.880
And so I would I would.
01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:33.679
Like you you're gonna get false negatives until it's too late and then they'll show up as positives and they could be a carrier, but they don't they don't start shedding until later.
01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:34.079
Right.
01:06:34.320 --> 01:06:37.199
And if they're shedding, chances are the calf is.
01:06:37.360 --> 01:06:37.679
Uh-huh.
01:06:37.760 --> 01:06:37.840
Yeah.
01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:44.880
And uh um, I talked to there's a Yone's institute, I think it's in Minnesota or Michigan, because all the dare cattle, sure.
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:45.760
Dairy cattle.
01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:54.079
And I was talking to them about it a long time ago, and I'm like, if can you make an uh embryos with a Yoneys animal?
01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:55.440
Well, sure.
01:06:55.599 --> 01:06:57.840
I said, Well, that passed to the calf.
01:06:58.159 --> 01:07:02.079
And they're like, probably not, but if you do, let us know.
01:07:02.320 --> 01:07:02.480
Right.
01:07:03.119 --> 01:07:03.360
Right, right.
01:07:03.599 --> 01:07:05.920
Wait a minute, you guys are supposed to be the experts in this.
01:07:06.239 --> 01:07:06.480
Yeah, yeah.
01:07:06.719 --> 01:07:09.760
You know, so uh we just decided let's test our herd.
01:07:09.920 --> 01:07:10.159
Sure.
01:07:10.320 --> 01:07:12.000
And then we'll test it a year later.
01:07:12.159 --> 01:07:12.480
Yeah.
01:07:12.719 --> 01:07:17.599
And after that, I mean, like we we buy some buybacks from professional recipt farms.
01:07:17.840 --> 01:07:17.920
Sure.
01:07:18.159 --> 01:07:20.320
Amanda Sears is great.
01:07:20.480 --> 01:07:20.719
Yeah.
01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:28.239
Um, I highly recommend we bought uh uh calves from her, yeah, um, and we bought pregnancies, but everything is tested.
01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:29.519
Yes, and we get that data.
01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:30.639
Transova's good at it.
01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:33.840
Yeah, if you buy pregnancies from Transova, you get that data.
01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:34.800
You bet, you bet.
01:07:35.039 --> 01:07:40.079
And uh so I think it's so important because I would hate to see any breeder, especially a new breeder, sure.
01:07:40.239 --> 01:07:45.920
They're investing money that sometimes maybe they don't have, and then you find out you've got something you've never heard of.
01:07:46.960 --> 01:07:51.519
You know, yeah, and so uh um I think it's just so important biosecurity.
01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:52.320
Yeah, yeah.
01:07:52.719 --> 01:07:55.360
I got to go to Ecuador uh two years ago.
01:07:55.599 --> 01:07:57.920
Um they call the big five from Ecuador.
01:07:58.079 --> 01:08:06.159
They're the big five um cattle breeders, but they all do cattle, shrimp, coffee, teak.
01:08:06.719 --> 01:08:18.640
Um, and they came up and did a Missouri USDA tour, and they came by the farm and uh um I fed them some wigu steaks, and so we ended up selling a bunch of gen X to them that was exported down there.
01:08:19.119 --> 01:08:21.920
And when the USDA went down, they invited me to go.
01:08:22.079 --> 01:08:26.399
Yeah, you know, and so I went down there and I I'll be honest with you, I didn't know what to expect.
01:08:26.560 --> 01:08:26.800
Sure.
01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:34.960
I do a lot of scuba diving in Honduras and Belize, and yeah, I I'm spending a lot of time in Central and South America, and I'm like, you know, what do I expect?
01:08:35.119 --> 01:08:44.960
And when you go on their farms, the first thing you do is you drive through a shallow pool of ammonia water, and then they've got a fogger machine, they're gonna fog the whole car.
01:08:45.359 --> 01:08:52.800
And when you get out, you walk through a shallow pool of ammonia water and you take your shoes off and you put their sanitized boots on.
01:08:53.600 --> 01:08:58.399
And I thought, wow, they are so far ahead of us on their biosecurity.
01:08:58.640 --> 01:08:58.960
Sure.
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:01.199
We don't even, I mean, you don't even think about it.
01:09:01.359 --> 01:09:01.680
Sure, sure.
01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:10.159
You know, you buy a cow and somebody hauls it out for you that's had been running up and down the road for 30 days, sure, and who knows what that animal is standing in.
01:09:10.399 --> 01:09:12.000
Yeah, yeah, you know, yep, yeah, yeah.
01:09:12.319 --> 01:09:14.640
Um so uh, you know, biosecurity's big.
01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:17.520
Um, but just be open to new ideas.
01:09:17.680 --> 01:09:19.439
Yeah, yeah, ask a lot of questions.
01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:22.159
Like I said, there's a lot of breeders with a lot of experience.
01:09:22.319 --> 01:09:22.960
Yeah, yeah.
01:09:23.279 --> 01:09:23.439
Yeah.
01:09:23.680 --> 01:09:30.000
I think the conventions are great because there's a lot of top breeders that will most of them are willing to share information.
01:09:30.239 --> 01:09:30.560
Mm-hmm.
01:09:30.720 --> 01:09:31.199
Yep, yep.
01:09:31.439 --> 01:09:33.439
And uh and that's how we're gonna grow this breed.
01:09:33.680 --> 01:09:34.399
Right, right.
01:09:34.479 --> 01:09:36.560
And um, to echo your comments there, I would.
01:09:36.640 --> 01:09:40.000
I tell people to to start gathering whatever whatever data you can.
01:09:40.159 --> 01:09:40.640
You know what I mean?
01:09:40.720 --> 01:09:44.800
Even and it and there is, there's data points available to collect throughout the lifespan.
01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:45.840
And I'm I'm with you.
01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:47.119
I think all of them matter.
01:09:47.279 --> 01:09:51.039
It's it's not clear until the hide comes off that we can look at anything that matters.
01:09:51.119 --> 01:09:57.600
Yeah, you know, I mean, I say even from I mean, from the day that we breed those cows, you know, within a month, you can see what was your conception rate.
01:09:57.680 --> 01:09:59.359
And to me, that's an important data point.
01:09:59.439 --> 01:10:01.520
How do we do for conception rate, right?
01:10:01.600 --> 01:10:02.560
That's gonna be documented.
01:10:02.720 --> 01:10:07.680
And even prior to that, I would say, you know, from the day the animals step off the trailer, how were they to handle?
01:10:07.840 --> 01:10:10.800
We can collect and say, like, hey, here's some animals that were bat crap crazy.
01:10:10.880 --> 01:10:13.119
That end needs to go to the beep to a beef program, right?
01:10:13.279 --> 01:10:16.800
Here's some animals that were exceptionally mellow, and we can maybe point those towards the.
01:10:17.119 --> 01:10:22.079
I'm not saying that just because they're mellow, but again, they should maybe maybe stay more in your donor candidate pool.
01:10:22.159 --> 01:10:22.720
Let's call it that.
01:10:23.279 --> 01:10:26.079
Um, and then animals in the middle, you know, or maybe just an average cow.
01:10:26.239 --> 01:10:29.279
But yeah, I mean, you can analyze them from the day they arrive on docility.
01:10:29.359 --> 01:10:33.600
We can analyze them pretty well immediately on fertility and all on conception rate.
01:10:33.680 --> 01:10:35.119
We can analyze them the day they're born.
01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:36.720
Were they born nice and light?
01:10:36.880 --> 01:10:38.079
Were they born unassisted?
01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:38.239
Yeah.
01:10:38.479 --> 01:10:39.840
Or did they require assistance?
01:10:39.920 --> 01:10:41.760
Or were they heavier than we'd like to see?
01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:49.199
And again, there's a spectrum, even among full siblings, to say, hey, here's the more desirable end of what we saw, and here's the less desirable end.
01:10:49.359 --> 01:10:52.560
We can go ahead and take a weaning weight the day that calf comes off the cow.
01:10:52.640 --> 01:10:54.079
They don't all weigh the exact same.
01:10:54.239 --> 01:10:56.560
There's a better and a lesser end of the spectrum there.
01:10:56.720 --> 01:11:02.960
And then going on to things like carcass ultrasound and going all the way through to taking the height off, you know, and looking at the finished product.
01:11:03.039 --> 01:11:04.560
All of those are valuable data points.
01:11:04.640 --> 01:11:08.800
But I would, I'd encourage people to start gathering any and all data you can.
01:11:08.880 --> 01:11:12.960
It doesn't have to be that from day one, you go spend what it takes to own a CLOC system.
01:11:13.039 --> 01:11:23.359
You know, from day one, let's start with, let's analyze something, let's record something, you know, gather what data you can, even if all you could afford to invest in up front was a scale.
01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:29.600
I mean, even if it was just a calf scale to get started with that something, we can at least say what are the actual birth rates.
01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:47.039
Because you would be amazed how many seed stock breeders proclaim that they're producing, you know, superior genetics or genetics that would provide value for a commercial producer and they don't have a set of calf scales and they don't have a set of weanlings, you know, a set of scales for weanlings or yearlings, much less call in an ultrasound technician.
01:11:47.600 --> 01:11:52.159
And I and I understand, you know, I mean, it's easier to not do do any of those things.
01:11:52.479 --> 01:11:52.720
Very easy.
01:11:52.960 --> 01:11:58.319
But but if we're not going to do those, are are we really seed stock breeders moving things forward?
01:11:58.479 --> 01:12:16.800
Or are we just just uh breeding commercial cattle that should frankly be sold as just just a uh a feeder calf or or just as beef, but we want more money, and so we're calling ourselves seed stock breeders and just propagating stuff based off a name or or hype or the bowl of the month, like to your point.
01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:20.640
You know, I I think that that gathering the data to whatever extent you can.
01:12:20.800 --> 01:12:31.760
You know, I mean, even if if you're just starting out with some minimal data points, gathering the data, I think that's a that's a differentiator and a necessary differentiator if you're really going to call yourself a seed stock breeder.
01:12:32.079 --> 01:12:33.840
You have to be willing and able to gather that data.
01:12:34.239 --> 01:12:40.159
I've got a a friend of mine, Matt Cody, at Cody Creek, and we we run a lot of our bulls at his farm.
01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:42.640
And uh, I mean, he's serious.
01:12:42.720 --> 01:12:55.039
He he uses all the data we collect, and then when he harvests, he takes pictures and then he puts all that data so you can go back and see every animal that he has ever done all the way through the carcass picks.
01:12:55.760 --> 01:12:57.600
And it it's nice to have him do that.
01:12:57.840 --> 01:12:58.960
Yes, because I don't have to.
01:12:59.279 --> 01:13:00.640
That's right, right, right.
01:13:01.199 --> 01:13:02.560
It takes a lot of time and energy and effort.
01:13:02.880 --> 01:13:10.560
Yeah, we've got some a judo bull that I want to see some carcasses out of him, but I love his data that the carcasses are good, we're gonna collect him.
01:13:10.640 --> 01:13:10.880
Yeah.
01:13:11.119 --> 01:13:16.560
And um, we've got a bunch of Rushaw Macs that we're gonna be taking the hides off here in the next few months.
01:13:16.800 --> 01:13:20.640
And so that's when it's really gonna show me how did that work.
01:13:20.800 --> 01:13:20.960
Right.
01:13:21.199 --> 01:13:22.319
You know, how did it turn out?
01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:22.720
Yep.
01:13:23.039 --> 01:13:26.479
So uh absolutely but yeah, I mean it's an exciting time.
01:13:26.560 --> 01:13:30.640
If you're thinking, well, I don't want to get into this breed, it's you know, too far along.
01:13:30.800 --> 01:13:34.000
This breed is at the beginning, so young, yeah, so young.
01:13:34.239 --> 01:13:43.760
There's a there's we are at the front, yeah, there's an opportunity to make yes you know, especially if you're in the blacks, we are where the black the reds are where the blacks were 15 years ago.
01:13:43.920 --> 01:13:47.119
Sure, yeah you know, when I compare that for sure, yeah.
01:13:47.279 --> 01:13:54.319
So don't think that you don't want to be in this breed because you don't think you can catch up or anything, sure, because you can be out in front running hard.
01:13:54.479 --> 01:13:55.039
Yeah, yeah.
01:13:55.199 --> 01:14:08.479
Um, and uh I I like it because when I got into it, everybody was selling each other because there wasn't anybody else to buy, sure, and we knew if we didn't expand, we were never gonna grow as an industry breed.
01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:09.119
You bet.
01:14:09.279 --> 01:14:14.079
And uh so yeah, it's it's a good time to be in the breed, uh especially with cattle prices up.
01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:14.800
Yeah, yeah.
01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:17.119
And uh there it's just the best breed.
01:14:17.279 --> 01:14:19.279
The beef is incredible, it's healthy.
01:14:19.600 --> 01:14:23.600
Um, you know, I always have friends that want to come to my house for barbecue.
01:14:23.840 --> 01:14:24.239
Right, right.
01:14:24.800 --> 01:14:25.279
Imagine that.
01:14:25.520 --> 01:14:26.159
You bet, yeah.
01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:27.439
Yeah, absolutely.
01:14:27.920 --> 01:14:30.640
Yeah, well, thank you for having me on today.
01:14:31.119 --> 01:14:34.239
Yeah, I'm excited to have an opportunity like this.
01:14:34.479 --> 01:14:34.960
You bet.
01:14:35.199 --> 01:14:39.920
And uh um I don't know, I'd like to get some more 121 genetics.
01:14:40.159 --> 01:14:41.039
You bet, you bet.
01:14:41.279 --> 01:14:44.800
So, everybody out there, you need to buy some 121 genetics.
01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:48.000
I was gonna buy them tonight, but they got real expensive.
01:14:48.560 --> 01:14:50.079
And I'm like, dang it.
01:14:50.960 --> 01:14:54.479
And likewise, I sure recommend they take a look at that Rushaw Max poll.
01:14:55.279 --> 01:14:57.439
I think you know, it's that's one of the things that you can do.
01:14:57.600 --> 01:15:08.319
Any of us has the opportunity, you know, but uh we're we're so fortunate to live live here in the United States of America and have the opportunity to vote with our wallets or vote with our pocketbooks.
01:15:08.720 --> 01:15:10.880
Hey, I appreciate the work you're doing.
01:15:10.960 --> 01:15:13.119
And and I've bought Rushaw Max.
01:15:13.279 --> 01:15:20.720
I'd encourage other people to do some of the same and and take those and again test them in your herd and see where it works, you know, and do some of those different things.
01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:27.279
And and so appreciate you being willing to do what you've done on your ranch and on your farm and and and sharing that data.
01:15:27.359 --> 01:15:33.119
And I appreciate you being willing to sit down and record with me for an hour here late tonight at the Akayushi Convention.
01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:33.840
Well, thank you.
01:15:34.079 --> 01:15:34.800
Thanks for having me.
01:15:35.119 --> 01:15:36.000
Thanks for your time, my friend.
01:15:36.239 --> 01:15:39.359
Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Got Any Cows Podcast.
01:15:39.520 --> 01:15:43.279
Be sure to subscribe, rate, and review wherever you get your podcasts.
01:15:43.359 --> 01:15:47.039
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