WEBVTT
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Get ready before life happens.
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The podcast helping you navigate life's blood end.
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The earlier the children experience financial literacy, the more powerful it becomes.
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Welcome to Get Ready Before Life Happens.
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I'm your host, Tony Stewart.
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Today I'm joined by Braden Cobb, founder of Kids Economy.
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Braden, welcome to the Get Ready Before Life Happens podcast.
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Thanks, Tony.
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Thank you.
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It's it's great to be here and great to be talking with you.
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Thanks for having me.
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Yeah, excited to share what you're doing with the audience.
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So uh tell us a little bit about it.
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What inspired you to create Kids Economy?
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Um, I mean, Kids Economy really grew out of my own experiences with money.
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So like I I had a career in finance.
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Um, but even with that background and uh being in the business side of finance, I still made plenty of poor financial decisions when I was younger.
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And I just remember thinking, like, why didn't anyone teach me this in school?
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And you know, years later as a teacher, I started experimenting with different ways to make money and financial decision making a part of my own classroom experiments, experience for the kids.
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And so three years back or so, we just I just started really implementing um what I had found uh as a classroom economy where students are genuinely connected with with the classroom.
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Um and as far as financial literacy, they're not I wasn't really teaching them financial literacy.
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They were they weren't just learning definitions, but they were making decisions, they had money to play with, they were experiencing consequences and learning from their mistakes.
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And that was the one thing that inspired me to create it is if I can help one kid um start saving, you know, 20 years earlier than they might have, or not buy a Jaguar with a credit card off of eBay.
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Not like I did that or anything.
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Um that was it.
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It was like, you know, I I went through finance and I graduated and I was in the profession, but I still didn't feel that I was financially literate, and that's because I think it just lasts lacked a foundation.
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So I wanted to just create a uh an experience and ecosystem for kids starting from age five, which is how old my son was when I started working on this, is just to have that opportunity to talk about money and understand it a little bit more before it becomes something real in their life.
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Yeah, it it is you do have to start early, and I think earlier than you know, we all tend to think of with our kids, is they're picking this stuff up pretty early, whether we think they are or not.
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So 100%.
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Yep.
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So so how does kids economy work?
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Okay, so what I uh have found is that um everyone says they want financial literacy in schools, almost everyone.
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But the tricky part is getting it into the timetable um to where you're not overloading teachers with extra stuff and whatnot.
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Um, one more thing to teach.
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So knowing that, and as a teacher and knowing what the barriers to entry were, is for right now our offline programs.
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Um we have an investment series, an entrepreneurship series, and like a personal economy series where it's day-to-day money stuff that's not flashy or fun, but stuff we all have to learn about.
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And so there are those three programs uh that we offer for upper primary and for lower primary age students.
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So from age five to eight, and then from age nine to eleven.
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Uh, the easiest way for us to deliver our programs and connect with schools that that has the least barrier to entry is we can set up um after-school programs within the international schools.
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And that's primarily our target right now, is we're in Singapore and in Malaysia, in the international schools, where they all have extracurricular options uh of what they can take beyond their studies.
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And so Kids Economy will send in one of our instructors um once a week, and they will lead the programs.
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Um depending on you know who's signed up for what, a different program will be taught.
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Uh, so that's one way that our programs are running, and we our whole ethos is that you know, just like you and I just talked about, like I learned my lack of financial literacy through experience.
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And so our programs are designed to put kids into a situation where they have to make choices about money or investing or spending or savings or sharing.
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And it's a simulation that will be ongoing to where at the end of it they can reflect and they can see, like, oh, this is a great choice that I made.
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Here's how I rebounded from that, here's what I would have done differently.
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And so basically, we're trying our best to give them a sandbox, a simulation of uh different financial situations that they will encounter in any profession, in any walk of life later on.
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So we're trying to bring an experience to schools, and we offer that in camps as well.
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Um, so that's where we're we are at now.
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It's not necessarily where we hope to continue to be forever, but that's where we're at now.
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Yeah, well, you bring up a really, well, that is some excellent points is um I was on the board of my son's school, and we were talking about bringing on a financial literacy program, of course, which I was an advocate for.
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And there were a few issues.
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One is funding, paying for a program.
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But the other thing that I think is the biggest issue is what you bring up, is putting it into the schedule.
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In California, it is a packed curriculum thing that oftentimes the teachers don't get to everything they're supposed to anyway.
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So we did adopt a financial literacy program.
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It got divided between three teachers, I think a social studies teacher, a math teacher, and a science teacher.
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I mean, there wasn't a logic to it.
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But the biggest challenge that I saw, besides that, besides it just being totally diffused, is that the teachers didn't really know and weren't comfortable with their own personal money.
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I mean, is that something you see quite often?
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Yeah, totally, totally.
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And when we're whether we're in a school or in the afterschool program, you're always talking with some adult who's making the decisions to say yes or no.
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Um, and a lot of them overcomplicate um the what financial literacy is, at least at the age where kids' economy is focused, and that's age five to 11.
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Um and at this stage, when I have when we have a teacher that says, I don't know what it is, and I've I've been in schools where the teacher next door was running one of our programs, and she was like, I don't know about investing, I don't know about stocks, I don't know about bonds.
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It's like, great, but you know they exist, right?
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And you know what savings means, you know where money comes from, you know, needs versus wants, you know, opportunity costs, you know, delayed gratification.
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And I think that getting that uh over that mental barrier of what financial literacy really is at this age is something that calms a lot of people down.
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Because we're not going in there and teaching an eight-year-old about the price earnings ratio of a stock or the yield of a bond or the maturity or the appreciation of real estate.
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We are merely building a foundation that starts from how money is earned, what are needs and wants, why is it important to save.
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So it's it's conceptual stuff that I think if you're an adult, you can teach a financial literacy class at this age.
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Now, when we get into upper stuff where we're we're being more intricate on you know, analyzing balance sheet or diversifying a portfolio based off of Delta or something, then okay, then you might need some expertise.
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But for the foundational stuff, any adult can teach it.
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And that was the biggest part when we were designing our programs, is we need the the the lens I always look through is I need a substitute teacher who's never taught any of this before to be able to be given a program on a plate and unpack it and know exactly what it's talking about.
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Um so sorry, I'm going off topic a little bit, but yes, there are teachers that say, I don't know how to teach financial literacy, but then you find out their definition of financial literacy is a little bit more complex than it needs to be.
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Yeah, well, I agree.
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And I think that's something the whole that's oftentimes an Achilles' heel with financial literacy programs, is they're concentrating on all these advanced concepts instead of the basics.
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And when you learn anything, you have to start with the basics.
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So, you know, that's a powerful point that you're starting that way.
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So, you know, just out of curiosity, is can you share any things that have been successful for you in working with schools?
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Because, you know, there's people in my audience from around the world are dealing with the exact same thing.
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It's hard to get into schools.
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Mm-hmm.
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Um so our strategy is finding a pain point in schools that we can address through financial literacy that they might not be able to do otherwise.
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And when I was teaching in Singapore, I was at an IB school, and we have they have their learner profile attributes of caring and be a critical thinker and risk taker, and all of these values that we're selling to parents, saying, send your child here, and we will make sure that they're a well-rounded, real well-rounded individual who's collaborative, who's empathetic, who's this, this, and this.
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And it's great things to hear, but it's hard for teachers and schools to actually deliver on that promise.
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And so what we have done is through our financial literacy programs, we take those core values that are posters on the wall for the most part.
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They're all, you know, the essential life skills that we would think of in some variation or another.
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But we take those and then we transform them into a stock market simulation.
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So rather than a business in the stock market, there might be a way for students to earn a leadership stock or a um time management stock or a critical thinking stock.
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And so when I was running in my own classroom, that's what I did is I would look for these values or these attributes that I'm supposed to be teaching my kids, and I would recognize them in real time with a sort of reward.
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And then the kids are the lights are starting to turn on.
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Like, okay, so this is how I show that attribute, that value that's you know being talked about in our schools so much.
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So that was one way that really resonated with with some of the schools, is we can not only give you financial literacy, but we can give you kind of a Trojan horse to embed some of these core values and lifelong learner attributes that we all say we do through the lens of our financial literacy system.
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So not sure if I totally answered your question there, but it's finding a way to fix one of their one of the school's needs or something they're lacking with what we are providing.
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Yeah, well, I I I think that makes sense, is because, you know, like you said, everybody says, okay, we need financial literacy, but at the same time, you know, schools are dealing with so many things.
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And it's just like, you know, budgetary issues is like the big thing we were constantly dealing with is like, okay, do we have enough money to do this?
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And then it's like financial literacy becomes, you know, a lesser thing on the checklist just because you have so many other priorities that you have to deal with.
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So it's that's super helpful.
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So, you know, one of the things is that kids' economy helps children build confidence.
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So, how does kids economy do that?
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How does it help children build confidence?
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I mean, I think the moment that kids have that connection with money, that they can see that it's theirs, um and they can lose it, right?
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They I think they need to fail first, right?
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And I think that's how a lot of adults will over time build a little confidence as learning from their own mistakes, and so that is one of the biggest things is like confidence comes from experience, and when children are given the responsibility and the freedom to make choices, they begin to see themselves as capable, right?
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So they they have that uh they feel like they have been given the keys to their own kingdom in a sense.
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So in kids' economy, students might manage a budget, they might invest in stocks, they might start a business and hire their classmates, um, you know, try to negotiate a deal, um, learn from a poor decision that they've made, and they learn that mistakes are not the end of the world, they learn that they're part of a process.
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And over time they become more comfortable like explaining their choices.
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So, for example, we had um an auction in one of our programs, and the parents donated a bunch of little toys and silly things, and some of the students blew all their money on the auction buying like yo-yos and and whatever, plushy toys or whatever they are.
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And then the next week were presented with an opportunity to um buy an investment or to put their money in some part of the simulation that would that would give them an advantage.
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And they realize, well, I don't have I don't have that luxury because I blew all my cash on this stuffed animal last week.
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And that learning from those mistakes and not necessarily being punished from them, like we might be as adults, um, that gives them confidence.
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So when that that situation comes up again, they're like, oh, well, this is how it happened last time.
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I know exactly how to change that outcome for me this time.
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And when they go through that thought process of trial and error and you know, kind of making those choices independently rather than you know, circling a multiple choice answer on a worksheet, they can see how their choices and their behavior and their attitude towards money has different effects.
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Um, and I think just that that process of making mistakes and being introduced to new ideas and understanding what they are, and then being introduced to them again and being able to navigate it in a different way.
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Um, just that whole experience builds a lot of confidence in the kids.
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Yeah, nothing beats experience.
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You gotta go through it if you know to learn things.
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So that's great that kids have that opportunity because it's like, like you said, in real life, you know, sometimes you can't undo something you really wish you could undo.
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Exactly.
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So that's fantastic.
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So one of the things is, you know, from a school standpoint, you know, you're uh presented with all these different programs, like this school that I was involved with is, you know, they ended up going with a free program, but it wasn't the best program, but there was no other money in the budget.
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So free was the only choice.
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It was it was it be no choice.
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So what should parents and educators watch for when choosing financial education programs for their children?
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Um I mean, the first thing, um are the children actively involved, right?
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It's that's the big thing when when I was putting kids' economy together is there was almost nothing for children in primary school, and what was available was was very boring and worksheet based.
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Um so I think financial education, it shouldn't just be adults telling children what they should and shouldn't do with money.
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So that's a big part.
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We don't want to just be lecturing them.
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Um I think you always you also need to look for programs that are obviously age appropriate, um, practical, balanced for where they are.
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Um, children should be learning about um you know saving, but they should also understand spending and earning and investing and generosity and risk, um decision making.
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So something that is encompassing a whole spectrum of what we might what they will encounter when they get older.
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Um, but most importantly, like I've been saying, is they need uh they need to practice.
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Okay, so if children never get to make the choice and experience a consequence or reflect on a mistake, the learning is unlikely to stick.
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Um so that's those are the two things I would look for.
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Um how are the children being taught?
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Is it lecture-based or is it simulation-based?
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Is there any hands-on learning going on?
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Um, are they learning from their peers just as much as they might be from their teacher or even themselves?
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And is that is that environment in place?
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So it's not just another, okay, the teacher's telling me this, I take a note, and then I go home and I forget it by next week.
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Right.
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So those are, I guess that's my take on that one.
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Yeah, well, and and that makes a lot of sense because even with adults, it's the same thing as, you know, like a lot of financial wellness programs are just, you know, a series of videos and people don't engage with them.
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Or, you know, they they start, they watch one or two videos or read a couple articles, and then it's like they they don't re-engage with the program.
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And so I think that's great advice at any age is to design a program so it is engaging and experiential, and people can can learn from it, like you're talking about.
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So uh what are three things people should know about teaching financial literacy early?
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I mean, I don't know how many times I've heard it or said it, but it's never too early.
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Um, I think I've gotten pushback from schools offering programs for their five-year-olds.
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And uh the schools say this it's way too early for this.
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And I obviously didn't say this to that person, but I'm like, is it too early because it was too late for you?
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Right?
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Like, who are we to make decisions about what's too early for a kid?
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Because they're handling money every day in some fashion, right?
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There are um situations where I'm just thinking of my own son.
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He wanted to buy a soccer ball and he wanted to buy a Neymar jersey.
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I'm like, you have$35 to spend, and you're welcome to spend it any way you like.
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Um, but you need to make the choice that if you get this, you won't get that.
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And so just having that conversation with my, you know, he's six years old now, but he can understand opportunity cost, right?
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And so um the language and the activities just need to be age appropriate, right?
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Even younger, younger st younger children can understand choices and wanting and saving and needs versus wants.
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Um, the second thing I think is that habits matter um more than.
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Financial knowledge.
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We can load our students' brains with definitions and whatnot, but if we're not helping them create habits, then we're not really helping them that much.
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They might take a test better, but if we're not helping them develop those habits by the time they get their first paycheck, we're doing them a disservice.
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So a child doesn't need to understand the stock market in detail.
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Um, but they can start learning about patience and planning and responsibility and delayed gratification because anyone who's invested in the stock market and been in the stock market most likely feels those panics and that elation of having something go down and having something go way up and selling at the right time or buying at the wrong time.
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Um, so I think just instilling those life skills in them, they'll be better to make those choices later on.
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Um, third, I mean, financial literacy should be ongoing.
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Um, even with the programs that we offer right now and the after-school programs, it's it's once a week, which I know is it can spark interest, but that real understanding develops through those re repeated conversations and those repeated experiences that we hope in the future of Kids Economy to be able to provide to schools.
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And I've heard this from parents a lot, uh, from my own parents in my own classrooms, is that when you start teaching the kids about financial literacy in school, they take that conversation home and they might start start talking about budgeting, or you know, this is what happened in school today, and I lost this, or I did this, did that, did that.
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It opens up the door to those conversations at home, and it kind of allows uh students to be little financial literacy ambassadors because it's not often that a conversation will come up with about money at the dinner table.
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It's kind of awkward for some families.
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So the aim is not to create financial experts at the age of eight, but it is uh to help develop habits and confidence that they need later in life.
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So those are the three two things.
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Children are not too young, habits are more important than knowledge, and it needs to be ongoing.
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Yeah, well, and I love that last point you made about them continuing the conversations at home, is from a lot of people that I've talked to who work with uh youth financial literacy programs, is that helps families and adults also with their financial literacy, especially when the adults don't want to say, you know, because nobody wants to admit they don't know something, you know, that you you think that society expects you to know.
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So it's great that kids can do that and help their parents with their own financial literacy.
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Um, so to wrap up, Braden, I have what's called the get ready hot take trio.
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These are three quick questions I ask all my guests.
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The first one is what's one myth about kids and money that you would like to break?
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Um, I mean, it's the big one.
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We we just touched on it, but is that children are too young to understand money.
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They are not.
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Um, they may not understand a mortgage or interest rate, but they already, like we said, are making financial decisions whether it's to buy the cheap garbage toy or save up for a drone that you might want, which is what I'm dealing with, my six-year-old.
00:25:50.079 --> 00:26:02.160
Um, but that you know, they choose um whether to spend, save, share, or or trade every day, whether it's with mom and dad or their friends.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:13.039
So the earlier we give them like that safe place to practice and make decisions and grow their confidence, the more responsible they can come.
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:18.720
So that's that's myth number one is they're not too young.
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:20.000
That's awesome.
00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:37.839
Yeah, I and I think that's an awesome thing to think about because with those of us who have kids, is they learn very early on bargaining and you know, all that, and just like the I want, you know, sometimes never stops when they're little, you know.
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:49.279
No, and I even notice like with my kids, we might be walking around and like, you know, I would love to go get like an iced coffee from the store.
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:54.960
And I got my two kids with me, and they're like, okay, well, if you're buying something, I'm buying something.
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:59.680
And I'm thinking, like, well, gosh, like that's I know they don't need anything.
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:03.440
But if I go in there, I'm gonna have to buy something for them or deal with it.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:07.440
And then it gets me thinking, like, do I really need that iced coffee?
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:08.559
Maybe not.
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:10.480
Okay, so we'll all just keep walking.
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:27.359
So when you're having those, when kids are participating in those just daily life conversations, even on the fringe of of financial literacy, it really stops and helps you reflect a little bit, which I can do better on many times, but it is there.
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:30.240
Yeah, well, kids are deal makers.
00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:33.119
Without a doubt.
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:35.920
So, you know, let's get out the time machine for a minute.
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:41.920
If you could go back in time, knowing what you know now about money, what advice would you give your younger self?
00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:47.200
Um I touched on this error earlier.
00:27:47.359 --> 00:28:00.160
You might not have thought I was serious, but I would tell myself that being able to avoid to afford a monthly payment doesn't necessarily mean that you can afford the purchase.
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:14.799
Um, and I learned this the hard way in college, um, where I used part of a student loan and American Express card to buy a Jaguar on eBay.
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:16.319
Oh boy.
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:19.519
I mean that oh boy is right, right?
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.240
Like let's let's edit that one out.
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:30.960
Um but I would also just tell myself like and start start investing earlier, avoid unnecessary debt.
00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:34.720
Um, it's more of building long-term habits.
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:46.400
And you know, I tell all my students is that you have an advantage over me and your parents that we can never overcome, and that's time.
00:28:46.960 --> 00:29:13.759
And so if you, you know, you're 10 now, 15 now, eight now, if you are to able to telling myself back then as well, is like if you were able to save a certain amount every month consistently over the next 40 years, then you don't have to rely on any so you know social security income or retirement income.
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:24.559
Like you can anyone anyone can retire safely and happily and comfortably, but you just need to start early enough.
00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:29.759
So that that's where I would love to go back to myself.
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:38.480
I remember not going off on too much of a tangent, but I don't know how old I was, but maybe 10 or 11, 12, I don't know.
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:42.319
But I wanted to open up somehow I figured out what a Roth IRA is.
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:46.640
And I wanted to open one up just to start saving.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:49.920
And uh I remember my mom, she's like, How'd you learn about that?
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:50.400
What is that?
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:52.559
You don't you don't need to learn about that now.
00:29:53.200 --> 00:30:15.359
And so if I could go back to myself at that point, I was like, just just find someone to open up a savings account for you and just add your birthday money to it, add portions of your allowance to it, and just get started early and consistently because that is the one of the hardest parts about budgeting is paying yourself first, right?
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:18.400
So pay yourself first, then deal with the rest.
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:20.480
Yeah, I I I love that.
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:23.200
Well, my mistake was kicking on debt.
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:31.920
Um, I was a finance major also, but we we emphasized investments, so I didn't learn about managing debt.
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:38.960
And so needless to say, I, you know, credit cards, I'm like, hey, I got all the money in the world as a college student.
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:45.200
You know, probably like a$2,000 limit, you know, but you know, you're in college and it's like, wow, I'm rich.
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:48.079
And uh and then the reality sinks in.
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:51.599
You're not you're not rich, you're just on the hook.
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:52.880
Exactly.
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:56.400
So that's why this stuff is so important.
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:04.240
So the last question is what's your number one tip to help people change the way they think about money and you know, financial literacy for kids?
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:14.640
Um, I mean, just stop treating financial literacy as a lesson or some nice to have, and start treating it as an experience.
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:23.519
So, like I've said, um, my belief is children do not learn to manage money by memorizing definitions or completing worksheets.
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:33.119
Uh, they learn by making choices, by experiencing consequences, by solving problems and trying again, but in a safe environment.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:49.839
And so, just whether you're a teacher or a parent at home or you know, school admin, trying to make money a part of everyday conversations um is key.
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:54.240
And just giving children a genuine opportunity to practice.
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:58.240
I think that's the experience, it all comes down to the experience part.
00:31:58.880 --> 00:31:59.599
Fantastic.
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:00.640
That's wonderful advice.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:08.720
Try to make money part of everyday conversations, uh, you know, and that removes some of the stigma that some of us feel about money in our own lives.
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:12.559
Uh so, Braden, where can people learn more about you in kids' economy?
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:18.799
Um, we have recently redone our website, which was in dire need.
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:30.000
Um, but you can learn more about the programs or the workshops or even some camps that we offer um around financial literacy and entrepreneurship at kidseconomy.com.
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:33.279
And it's K-I-D-Z instead of S.
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:41.119
Um, we do have an Instagram channel, which is not very well monitored.
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:54.400
Um, and we have a YouTube channel as well, which was probably the first thing that I ever did on Kids Economy was creating uh YouTube videos that kids can go and and watch on their own.
00:32:54.559 --> 00:33:05.759
So there's a YouTube channel which is not too active, but um I think we have like 5,000 viewers or subscribers or something and a few dozen videos on there.
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:17.920
So if you know you want to have your kid watch something else than Paw Patrol or whatever it is, we tried to make the videos optically appealing for the kids.
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:22.160
So yeah, the best way would just be to go to the website, probably.
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:24.000
Fantastic.
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:29.839
And for everybody watching and listening, if you have access to the show notes, you'll find all those links in the show notes.
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:33.200
Braden, thanks for joining us on Get Ready Before Life Happens.
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:34.400
Thanks a lot, Tony.
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:34.960
It's been great.
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:36.079
Thanks for having me.
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:37.359
Yeah, it was a pleasure.
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:42.720
And thank you, everyone, as always, for tuning in to this episode of Get Ready Before Life Happens.
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:48.960
If you learned something today to change the way you think about money, please be sure to share and subscribe.
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:58.720
You can also create an in-case of emergency plan for the people who count on you by starting your free financial readiness plan on my website at TonyStewart.com.
00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:03.200
Because when life happens, the way you think about money matters.
00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:07.519
Get ready before life happens.
00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:10.960
The podcast helping you navigate life's blood end.
00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:22.480
The earlier the children experience financial literacy, the more powerful it becomes.
00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:24.879
Welcome to Get Ready Before Life Happens.
00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:26.399
I'm your host, Tony Stewart.
00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:30.399
Today I'm joined by Braden Cobb, founder of Kids Economy.
00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:34.079
Braden, welcome to the Get Ready Before Life Happens podcast.
00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:35.359
Thanks, Tony.
00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:35.759
Thank you.
00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:39.039
It's it's great to be here and great to be talking with you.
00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:40.159
Thanks for having me.
00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:43.119
Yeah, excited to share what you're doing with the audience.
00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:45.039
So uh tell us a little bit about it.
00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:48.159
What inspired you to create Kids Economy?
00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:55.359
Um, I mean, Kids Economy really grew out of my own experiences with money.
00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:58.880
So like I I had a career in finance.
00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:11.280
Um, but even with that background and uh being in the business side of finance, I still made plenty of poor financial decisions when I was younger.
00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:16.319
And I just remember thinking, like, why didn't anyone teach me this in school?
00:01:16.719 --> 00:01:30.400
And you know, years later as a teacher, I started experimenting with different ways to make money and financial decision making a part of my own classroom experiments, experience for the kids.
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And so three years back or so, we just I just started really implementing um what I had found uh as a classroom economy where students are genuinely connected with with the classroom.
00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:54.239
Um and as far as financial literacy, they're not I wasn't really teaching them financial literacy.
00:01:54.319 --> 00:02:03.439
They were they weren't just learning definitions, but they were making decisions, they had money to play with, they were experiencing consequences and learning from their mistakes.
00:02:03.599 --> 00:02:22.080
And that was the one thing that inspired me to create it is if I can help one kid um start saving, you know, 20 years earlier than they might have, or not buy a Jaguar with a credit card off of eBay.
00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:24.159
Not like I did that or anything.
00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:27.360
Um that was it.
00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:39.439
It was like, you know, I I went through finance and I graduated and I was in the profession, but I still didn't feel that I was financially literate, and that's because I think it just lasts lacked a foundation.
00:02:39.680 --> 00:03:02.000
So I wanted to just create a uh an experience and ecosystem for kids starting from age five, which is how old my son was when I started working on this, is just to have that opportunity to talk about money and understand it a little bit more before it becomes something real in their life.
00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:14.960
Yeah, it it is you do have to start early, and I think earlier than you know, we all tend to think of with our kids, is they're picking this stuff up pretty early, whether we think they are or not.
00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:15.680
So 100%.
00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:16.800
Yep.
00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:19.759
So so how does kids economy work?
00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:32.560
Okay, so what I uh have found is that um everyone says they want financial literacy in schools, almost everyone.
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But the tricky part is getting it into the timetable um to where you're not overloading teachers with extra stuff and whatnot.
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Um, one more thing to teach.
00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:54.719
So knowing that, and as a teacher and knowing what the barriers to entry were, is for right now our offline programs.
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Um we have an investment series, an entrepreneurship series, and like a personal economy series where it's day-to-day money stuff that's not flashy or fun, but stuff we all have to learn about.
00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:15.599
And so there are those three programs uh that we offer for upper primary and for lower primary age students.
00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:19.360
So from age five to eight, and then from age nine to eleven.
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Uh, the easiest way for us to deliver our programs and connect with schools that that has the least barrier to entry is we can set up um after-school programs within the international schools.
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And that's primarily our target right now, is we're in Singapore and in Malaysia, in the international schools, where they all have extracurricular options uh of what they can take beyond their studies.
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And so Kids Economy will send in one of our instructors um once a week, and they will lead the programs.
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Um depending on you know who's signed up for what, a different program will be taught.
00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:18.079
Uh, so that's one way that our programs are running, and we our whole ethos is that you know, just like you and I just talked about, like I learned my lack of financial literacy through experience.
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And so our programs are designed to put kids into a situation where they have to make choices about money or investing or spending or savings or sharing.
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And it's a simulation that will be ongoing to where at the end of it they can reflect and they can see, like, oh, this is a great choice that I made.
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Here's how I rebounded from that, here's what I would have done differently.
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And so basically, we're trying our best to give them a sandbox, a simulation of uh different financial situations that they will encounter in any profession, in any walk of life later on.
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So we're trying to bring an experience to schools, and we offer that in camps as well.
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Um, so that's where we're we are at now.
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It's not necessarily where we hope to continue to be forever, but that's where we're at now.
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Yeah, well, you bring up a really, well, that is some excellent points is um I was on the board of my son's school, and we were talking about bringing on a financial literacy program, of course, which I was an advocate for.
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And there were a few issues.
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One is funding, paying for a program.
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But the other thing that I think is the biggest issue is what you bring up, is putting it into the schedule.
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In California, it is a packed curriculum thing that oftentimes the teachers don't get to everything they're supposed to anyway.
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So we did adopt a financial literacy program.
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It got divided between three teachers, I think a social studies teacher, a math teacher, and a science teacher.
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I mean, there wasn't a logic to it.
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But the biggest challenge that I saw, besides that, besides it just being totally diffused, is that the teachers didn't really know and weren't comfortable with their own personal money.
00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:14.879
I mean, is that something you see quite often?
00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:16.879
Yeah, totally, totally.
00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:26.800
And when we're whether we're in a school or in the afterschool program, you're always talking with some adult who's making the decisions to say yes or no.
00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:42.079
Um, and a lot of them overcomplicate um the what financial literacy is, at least at the age where kids' economy is focused, and that's age five to 11.
00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:59.120
Um and at this stage, when I have when we have a teacher that says, I don't know what it is, and I've I've been in schools where the teacher next door was running one of our programs, and she was like, I don't know about investing, I don't know about stocks, I don't know about bonds.
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It's like, great, but you know they exist, right?
00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:10.480
And you know what savings means, you know where money comes from, you know, needs versus wants, you know, opportunity costs, you know, delayed gratification.
00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:22.879
And I think that getting that uh over that mental barrier of what financial literacy really is at this age is something that calms a lot of people down.
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Because we're not going in there and teaching an eight-year-old about the price earnings ratio of a stock or the yield of a bond or the maturity or the appreciation of real estate.
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We are merely building a foundation that starts from how money is earned, what are needs and wants, why is it important to save.
00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:56.480
So it's it's conceptual stuff that I think if you're an adult, you can teach a financial literacy class at this age.
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Now, when we get into upper stuff where we're we're being more intricate on you know, analyzing balance sheet or diversifying a portfolio based off of Delta or something, then okay, then you might need some expertise.
00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:18.320
But for the foundational stuff, any adult can teach it.
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And that was the biggest part when we were designing our programs, is we need the the the lens I always look through is I need a substitute teacher who's never taught any of this before to be able to be given a program on a plate and unpack it and know exactly what it's talking about.
00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:51.440
Um so sorry, I'm going off topic a little bit, but yes, there are teachers that say, I don't know how to teach financial literacy, but then you find out their definition of financial literacy is a little bit more complex than it needs to be.
00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:53.600
Yeah, well, I agree.
00:09:53.679 --> 00:10:04.879
And I think that's something the whole that's oftentimes an Achilles' heel with financial literacy programs, is they're concentrating on all these advanced concepts instead of the basics.
00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:08.639
And when you learn anything, you have to start with the basics.
00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:12.000
So, you know, that's a powerful point that you're starting that way.
00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:19.840
So, you know, just out of curiosity, is can you share any things that have been successful for you in working with schools?
00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:25.200
Because, you know, there's people in my audience from around the world are dealing with the exact same thing.
00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:27.120
It's hard to get into schools.
00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:27.840
Mm-hmm.
00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:44.000
Um so our strategy is finding a pain point in schools that we can address through financial literacy that they might not be able to do otherwise.
00:10:44.480 --> 00:11:12.480
And when I was teaching in Singapore, I was at an IB school, and we have they have their learner profile attributes of caring and be a critical thinker and risk taker, and all of these values that we're selling to parents, saying, send your child here, and we will make sure that they're a well-rounded, real well-rounded individual who's collaborative, who's empathetic, who's this, this, and this.
00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:22.720
And it's great things to hear, but it's hard for teachers and schools to actually deliver on that promise.
00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:33.679
And so what we have done is through our financial literacy programs, we take those core values that are posters on the wall for the most part.
00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:40.639
They're all, you know, the essential life skills that we would think of in some variation or another.
00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:47.840
But we take those and then we transform them into a stock market simulation.
00:11:48.559 --> 00:12:00.639
So rather than a business in the stock market, there might be a way for students to earn a leadership stock or a um time management stock or a critical thinking stock.
00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:14.879
And so when I was running in my own classroom, that's what I did is I would look for these values or these attributes that I'm supposed to be teaching my kids, and I would recognize them in real time with a sort of reward.
00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:17.840
And then the kids are the lights are starting to turn on.
00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:25.039
Like, okay, so this is how I show that attribute, that value that's you know being talked about in our schools so much.
00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:52.720
So that was one way that really resonated with with some of the schools, is we can not only give you financial literacy, but we can give you kind of a Trojan horse to embed some of these core values and lifelong learner attributes that we all say we do through the lens of our financial literacy system.
00:12:52.960 --> 00:13:05.200
So not sure if I totally answered your question there, but it's finding a way to fix one of their one of the school's needs or something they're lacking with what we are providing.
00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:20.240
Yeah, well, I I I think that makes sense, is because, you know, like you said, everybody says, okay, we need financial literacy, but at the same time, you know, schools are dealing with so many things.
00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:29.759
And it's just like, you know, budgetary issues is like the big thing we were constantly dealing with is like, okay, do we have enough money to do this?
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:40.320
And then it's like financial literacy becomes, you know, a lesser thing on the checklist just because you have so many other priorities that you have to deal with.
00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:42.960
So it's that's super helpful.
00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:48.159
So, you know, one of the things is that kids' economy helps children build confidence.
00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:50.879
So, how does kids economy do that?
00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:54.320
How does it help children build confidence?
00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:12.799
I mean, I think the moment that kids have that connection with money, that they can see that it's theirs, um and they can lose it, right?
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.919
They I think they need to fail first, right?
00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:40.159
And I think that's how a lot of adults will over time build a little confidence as learning from their own mistakes, and so that is one of the biggest things is like confidence comes from experience, and when children are given the responsibility and the freedom to make choices, they begin to see themselves as capable, right?
00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:49.519
So they they have that uh they feel like they have been given the keys to their own kingdom in a sense.
00:14:49.679 --> 00:15:10.720
So in kids' economy, students might manage a budget, they might invest in stocks, they might start a business and hire their classmates, um, you know, try to negotiate a deal, um, learn from a poor decision that they've made, and they learn that mistakes are not the end of the world, they learn that they're part of a process.
00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:15.039
And over time they become more comfortable like explaining their choices.
00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:33.519
So, for example, we had um an auction in one of our programs, and the parents donated a bunch of little toys and silly things, and some of the students blew all their money on the auction buying like yo-yos and and whatever, plushy toys or whatever they are.
00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:46.960
And then the next week were presented with an opportunity to um buy an investment or to put their money in some part of the simulation that would that would give them an advantage.
00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:55.279
And they realize, well, I don't have I don't have that luxury because I blew all my cash on this stuffed animal last week.
00:15:55.759 --> 00:16:06.639
And that learning from those mistakes and not necessarily being punished from them, like we might be as adults, um, that gives them confidence.
00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:10.879
So when that that situation comes up again, they're like, oh, well, this is how it happened last time.
00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:14.720
I know exactly how to change that outcome for me this time.
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:36.559
And when they go through that thought process of trial and error and you know, kind of making those choices independently rather than you know, circling a multiple choice answer on a worksheet, they can see how their choices and their behavior and their attitude towards money has different effects.
00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:50.320
Um, and I think just that that process of making mistakes and being introduced to new ideas and understanding what they are, and then being introduced to them again and being able to navigate it in a different way.
00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:54.480
Um, just that whole experience builds a lot of confidence in the kids.
00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:56.960
Yeah, nothing beats experience.
00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:00.399
You gotta go through it if you know to learn things.
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:10.960
So that's great that kids have that opportunity because it's like, like you said, in real life, you know, sometimes you can't undo something you really wish you could undo.
00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:11.680
Exactly.
00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:13.839
So that's fantastic.
00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:34.240
So one of the things is, you know, from a school standpoint, you know, you're uh presented with all these different programs, like this school that I was involved with is, you know, they ended up going with a free program, but it wasn't the best program, but there was no other money in the budget.
00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:36.240
So free was the only choice.
00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:38.799
It was it was it be no choice.
00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:46.880
So what should parents and educators watch for when choosing financial education programs for their children?
00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:57.039
Um I mean, the first thing, um are the children actively involved, right?
00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:11.200
It's that's the big thing when when I was putting kids' economy together is there was almost nothing for children in primary school, and what was available was was very boring and worksheet based.
00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:20.640
Um so I think financial education, it shouldn't just be adults telling children what they should and shouldn't do with money.
00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:21.680
So that's a big part.
00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:24.559
We don't want to just be lecturing them.
00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:34.480
Um I think you always you also need to look for programs that are obviously age appropriate, um, practical, balanced for where they are.
00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:48.319
Um, children should be learning about um you know saving, but they should also understand spending and earning and investing and generosity and risk, um decision making.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:56.079
So something that is encompassing a whole spectrum of what we might what they will encounter when they get older.
00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:01.519
Um, but most importantly, like I've been saying, is they need uh they need to practice.
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:09.839
Okay, so if children never get to make the choice and experience a consequence or reflect on a mistake, the learning is unlikely to stick.
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:15.359
Um so that's those are the two things I would look for.
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:18.480
Um how are the children being taught?
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:21.599
Is it lecture-based or is it simulation-based?
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:24.400
Is there any hands-on learning going on?
00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:30.960
Um, are they learning from their peers just as much as they might be from their teacher or even themselves?
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:34.640
And is that is that environment in place?
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:41.920
So it's not just another, okay, the teacher's telling me this, I take a note, and then I go home and I forget it by next week.
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:42.319
Right.
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:46.799
So those are, I guess that's my take on that one.
00:19:47.440 --> 00:20:00.000
Yeah, well, and and that makes a lot of sense because even with adults, it's the same thing as, you know, like a lot of financial wellness programs are just, you know, a series of videos and people don't engage with them.
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:09.599
Or, you know, they they start, they watch one or two videos or read a couple articles, and then it's like they they don't re-engage with the program.
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:20.960
And so I think that's great advice at any age is to design a program so it is engaging and experiential, and people can can learn from it, like you're talking about.
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:27.839
So uh what are three things people should know about teaching financial literacy early?
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:36.720
I mean, I don't know how many times I've heard it or said it, but it's never too early.
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:46.000
Um, I think I've gotten pushback from schools offering programs for their five-year-olds.
00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:50.319
And uh the schools say this it's way too early for this.
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:57.599
And I obviously didn't say this to that person, but I'm like, is it too early because it was too late for you?
00:20:58.160 --> 00:20:58.480
Right?
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:02.079
Like, who are we to make decisions about what's too early for a kid?
00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:10.000
Because they're handling money every day in some fashion, right?
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:15.519
There are um situations where I'm just thinking of my own son.
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:21.279
He wanted to buy a soccer ball and he wanted to buy a Neymar jersey.
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:26.400
I'm like, you have$35 to spend, and you're welcome to spend it any way you like.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.519
Um, but you need to make the choice that if you get this, you won't get that.
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:36.480
And so just having that conversation with my, you know, he's six years old now, but he can understand opportunity cost, right?
00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:46.400
And so um the language and the activities just need to be age appropriate, right?
00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:53.039
Even younger, younger st younger children can understand choices and wanting and saving and needs versus wants.
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:59.680
Um, the second thing I think is that habits matter um more than.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.440
Financial knowledge.
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:14.400
We can load our students' brains with definitions and whatnot, but if we're not helping them create habits, then we're not really helping them that much.
00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:24.319
They might take a test better, but if we're not helping them develop those habits by the time they get their first paycheck, we're doing them a disservice.
00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:28.960
So a child doesn't need to understand the stock market in detail.
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:55.440
Um, but they can start learning about patience and planning and responsibility and delayed gratification because anyone who's invested in the stock market and been in the stock market most likely feels those panics and that elation of having something go down and having something go way up and selling at the right time or buying at the wrong time.
00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:05.039
Um, so I think just instilling those life skills in them, they'll be better to make those choices later on.
00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:09.279
Um, third, I mean, financial literacy should be ongoing.
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:35.279
Um, even with the programs that we offer right now and the after-school programs, it's it's once a week, which I know is it can spark interest, but that real understanding develops through those re repeated conversations and those repeated experiences that we hope in the future of Kids Economy to be able to provide to schools.
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:56.319
And I've heard this from parents a lot, uh, from my own parents in my own classrooms, is that when you start teaching the kids about financial literacy in school, they take that conversation home and they might start start talking about budgeting, or you know, this is what happened in school today, and I lost this, or I did this, did that, did that.
00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:11.359
It opens up the door to those conversations at home, and it kind of allows uh students to be little financial literacy ambassadors because it's not often that a conversation will come up with about money at the dinner table.
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:13.759
It's kind of awkward for some families.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:27.599
So the aim is not to create financial experts at the age of eight, but it is uh to help develop habits and confidence that they need later in life.
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:29.920
So those are the three two things.
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:37.440
Children are not too young, habits are more important than knowledge, and it needs to be ongoing.
00:24:38.240 --> 00:25:03.279
Yeah, well, and I love that last point you made about them continuing the conversations at home, is from a lot of people that I've talked to who work with uh youth financial literacy programs, is that helps families and adults also with their financial literacy, especially when the adults don't want to say, you know, because nobody wants to admit they don't know something, you know, that you you think that society expects you to know.
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:09.279
So it's great that kids can do that and help their parents with their own financial literacy.
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:13.279
Um, so to wrap up, Braden, I have what's called the get ready hot take trio.
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.839
These are three quick questions I ask all my guests.
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:21.279
The first one is what's one myth about kids and money that you would like to break?
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:24.160
Um, I mean, it's the big one.
00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:29.759
We we just touched on it, but is that children are too young to understand money.
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:31.200
They are not.
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:49.359
Um, they may not understand a mortgage or interest rate, but they already, like we said, are making financial decisions whether it's to buy the cheap garbage toy or save up for a drone that you might want, which is what I'm dealing with, my six-year-old.
00:25:50.079 --> 00:26:02.160
Um, but that you know, they choose um whether to spend, save, share, or or trade every day, whether it's with mom and dad or their friends.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:13.039
So the earlier we give them like that safe place to practice and make decisions and grow their confidence, the more responsible they can come.
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:18.720
So that's that's myth number one is they're not too young.
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:20.000
That's awesome.
00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:37.839
Yeah, I and I think that's an awesome thing to think about because with those of us who have kids, is they learn very early on bargaining and you know, all that, and just like the I want, you know, sometimes never stops when they're little, you know.
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:49.279
No, and I even notice like with my kids, we might be walking around and like, you know, I would love to go get like an iced coffee from the store.
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:54.960
And I got my two kids with me, and they're like, okay, well, if you're buying something, I'm buying something.
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:59.680
And I'm thinking, like, well, gosh, like that's I know they don't need anything.
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:03.440
But if I go in there, I'm gonna have to buy something for them or deal with it.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:07.440
And then it gets me thinking, like, do I really need that iced coffee?
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:08.559
Maybe not.
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:10.480
Okay, so we'll all just keep walking.
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:27.359
So when you're having those, when kids are participating in those just daily life conversations, even on the fringe of of financial literacy, it really stops and helps you reflect a little bit, which I can do better on many times, but it is there.
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:30.240
Yeah, well, kids are deal makers.
00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:33.119
Without a doubt.
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:35.920
So, you know, let's get out the time machine for a minute.
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:41.920
If you could go back in time, knowing what you know now about money, what advice would you give your younger self?
00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:47.200
Um I touched on this error earlier.
00:27:47.359 --> 00:28:00.160
You might not have thought I was serious, but I would tell myself that being able to avoid to afford a monthly payment doesn't necessarily mean that you can afford the purchase.
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:14.799
Um, and I learned this the hard way in college, um, where I used part of a student loan and American Express card to buy a Jaguar on eBay.
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:16.319
Oh boy.
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:19.519
I mean that oh boy is right, right?
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.240
Like let's let's edit that one out.
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:30.960
Um but I would also just tell myself like and start start investing earlier, avoid unnecessary debt.
00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:34.720
Um, it's more of building long-term habits.
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:46.400
And you know, I tell all my students is that you have an advantage over me and your parents that we can never overcome, and that's time.
00:28:46.960 --> 00:29:13.759
And so if you, you know, you're 10 now, 15 now, eight now, if you are to able to telling myself back then as well, is like if you were able to save a certain amount every month consistently over the next 40 years, then you don't have to rely on any so you know social security income or retirement income.
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:24.559
Like you can anyone anyone can retire safely and happily and comfortably, but you just need to start early enough.
00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:29.759
So that that's where I would love to go back to myself.
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:38.480
I remember not going off on too much of a tangent, but I don't know how old I was, but maybe 10 or 11, 12, I don't know.
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:42.319
But I wanted to open up somehow I figured out what a Roth IRA is.
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:46.640
And I wanted to open one up just to start saving.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:49.920
And uh I remember my mom, she's like, How'd you learn about that?
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:50.400
What is that?
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:52.559
You don't you don't need to learn about that now.
00:29:53.200 --> 00:30:15.359
And so if I could go back to myself at that point, I was like, just just find someone to open up a savings account for you and just add your birthday money to it, add portions of your allowance to it, and just get started early and consistently because that is the one of the hardest parts about budgeting is paying yourself first, right?
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:18.400
So pay yourself first, then deal with the rest.
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:20.480
Yeah, I I I love that.
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:23.200
Well, my mistake was kicking on debt.
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:31.920
Um, I was a finance major also, but we we emphasized investments, so I didn't learn about managing debt.
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:38.960
And so needless to say, I, you know, credit cards, I'm like, hey, I got all the money in the world as a college student.
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:45.200
You know, probably like a$2,000 limit, you know, but you know, you're in college and it's like, wow, I'm rich.
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:48.079
And uh and then the reality sinks in.
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:51.599
You're not you're not rich, you're just on the hook.
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:52.880
Exactly.
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:56.400
So that's why this stuff is so important.
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:04.240
So the last question is what's your number one tip to help people change the way they think about money and you know, financial literacy for kids?
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:14.640
Um, I mean, just stop treating financial literacy as a lesson or some nice to have, and start treating it as an experience.
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:23.519
So, like I've said, um, my belief is children do not learn to manage money by memorizing definitions or completing worksheets.
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:33.119
Uh, they learn by making choices, by experiencing consequences, by solving problems and trying again, but in a safe environment.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:49.839
And so, just whether you're a teacher or a parent at home or you know, school admin, trying to make money a part of everyday conversations um is key.
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:54.240
And just giving children a genuine opportunity to practice.
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:58.240
I think that's the experience, it all comes down to the experience part.
00:31:58.880 --> 00:31:59.599
Fantastic.
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:00.640
That's wonderful advice.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:08.720
Try to make money part of everyday conversations, uh, you know, and that removes some of the stigma that some of us feel about money in our own lives.
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:12.559
Uh so, Braden, where can people learn more about you in kids' economy?
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:18.799
Um, we have recently redone our website, which was in dire need.
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:30.000
Um, but you can learn more about the programs or the workshops or even some camps that we offer um around financial literacy and entrepreneurship at kidseconomy.com.
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:33.279
And it's K-I-D-Z instead of S.
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:41.119
Um, we do have an Instagram channel, which is not very well monitored.
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:54.400
Um, and we have a YouTube channel as well, which was probably the first thing that I ever did on Kids Economy was creating uh YouTube videos that kids can go and and watch on their own.
00:32:54.559 --> 00:33:05.759
So there's a YouTube channel which is not too active, but um I think we have like 5,000 viewers or subscribers or something and a few dozen videos on there.
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:17.920
So if you know you want to have your kid watch something else than Paw Patrol or whatever it is, we tried to make the videos optically appealing for the kids.
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:22.160
So yeah, the best way would just be to go to the website, probably.
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:24.000
Fantastic.
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:29.839
And for everybody watching and listening, if you have access to the show notes, you'll find all those links in the show notes.
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:33.200
Braden, thanks for joining us on Get Ready Before Life Happens.
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:34.400
Thanks a lot, Tony.
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:34.960
It's been great.
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:36.079
Thanks for having me.
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:37.359
Yeah, it was a pleasure.
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:42.720
And thank you, everyone, as always, for tuning in to this episode of Get Ready Before Life Happens.
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:48.960
If you learned something today to change the way you think about money, please be sure to share and subscribe.
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:58.720
You can also create an in-case of emergency plan for the people who count on you by starting your free financial readiness plan on my website at TonyStewart.com.
00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:03.200
Because when life happens, the way you think about money matters.
