Episode 40: Top 5 West Virginia Football Players

Matt: Thank you for tuning into the Generational Gauntlet Top 5 Faves. This is the podcast where we give you our top five on a topic with a generational twist to it. My name is Matt Lambert and I'm the host of this podcast. Each week, I bring in a guest who's from a different generation than me to discuss or debate our top five on a selected topic. Now, we're getting ready to head into the greatest season of the year, and that is college football season. I am a massive college football fan. And sometimes I find myself yelling at the television when I see an official miss what I think was a blatant holding, a late hit, or a pass interference call. And to help me and to help others as we head into this season with our ridiculous views on what's happening on the field, I needed to bring in a real life official. So today's guest is David Rydell, a Gen Xer, a football official, a former neighbor of mine. And the man responsible for the greatest fireworks show I've ever seen in
David: Ha.
Matt: any neighborhood I've ever lived in. So, David, how has life been treating you?
David: Life has been good. The neighborhood got a little more quiet when you left.
Matt: Ha ha ha ha.
David: so I still had Adam, so that's good. But And he said
Matt: Yeah, that's true. That's true. Well
David: after I left he said you and I both abandoned him. So
Matt: We did, we did. So for anybody listening, if you've heard of Adam on episodes nine and seventeen, he lived across the street from me in this neighborhood. David was to, I guess, the right looking from my front porch, right next door to him, so this is like bringing it back to what my neighborhood was in West Virginia. Now, David, correct me if I'm wrong, you're a huge football fan, right?
David: I I am. That's that's part of the reason why I'm a football official. It's just I love the game so much.
Matt: Yes. Did you play football growing up?
David: I did. I I I didn't start till middle school but I played at
Matt: Okay.
David: Sarita Canova High School in in West Virginia. They were they were well known. We I played for a man that won ten ten state titles in twenty five years, just
Matt: Wow.
David: an incredible individual and just a l a lot of fun, love the game
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: and the only way I can get the least little bit of that feeling on Friday nights is to be back out on the field.
Matt: Well when you played, what position did you play?
David: it was a tight end on offense and a defensive end on defense.
Matt: Okay, so two way player, I like it. I will tell you, David, I did not get to play football growing up. My mom, who's been on this podcast, she's gonna listen to this. She told me I was too skinny and she was afraid I would get killed playing football, so
David: Yeah.
Matt: did not let me play. Now I know you played. Did you watch a lot of football growing up?
David: I did. I'm a I'm a huge Dallas Cowboys fan. And
Matt: Okay.
David: and also back in the old days before Trump killed the US FL, I was
Matt: Ha
David: a big New Jersey Generals fan.
Matt: Okay, nice. W
David: So I and of course college I'm I'm a marshall guy.
Matt: I was gonna say, I was gonna ask you who you root for, so Cowboys and Marshall would be your teams, right?
David: Yeah.
Matt: So I will tell you, I'm not a big professional football guy. I really the only time I pay attention to professional football is for the Fantasy Football League that both of us are part of.
David: Yes.
Matt: I do root heavily for the Ohio State University. That's where my allegiance is fully pledged to. Now David, switching over to part of why I have you on here today, you've been an official for the last twenty years, is that correct?
David: I have.
Matt: Alright, what got you into wanting to be an official?
David: Again, just getting back and and giving something back to the game
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: and just loving the game. I this is my second go-round, so I wasn't I was a an official from ninety-one to ninety-seven. And
Matt: Okay.
David: I got suspended at the end of the ninety-seven season and I just didn't go back.
Matt: Yeah.
David: And took it back up in twenty eleven, twenty twelve. So been doing that, just doing that ever since I was
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: In twenty twenty four I was the the West Virginia football official of the year. So th it was
Matt: Nice.
David: it was a lot of recognition. I had a brainstem stroke in twenty twenty three that took me out of the majority of football season. Fully
Matt: Yeah.
David: recovered from that, but I think I think that as Philip called it, the comeback player, the the comeback player of year. So
Matt: I mean that's a pretty big deal to come back from that and and get back into officiating, so I agree with him. And I I gotta ask
David: Yeah, I'm I'm I'm
Matt: go ahead.
David: I was gonna say I'm one of the blessed ones. I'm I'm nine percent of people that have brainstem strokes fully recovered. I'm one of that nine percent, so I'm truly
Matt: Yeah.
David: blessed.
Matt: I mean yeah, definitely. That that's awesome. And in terms of officiating, I gotta ask you, what is in in your opinion, what's the biggest game you've been a part of or you've officiated?
David: Well, it's the biggest game that I've ever had. It was and I can't remember what class it was 'cause this was the first go round in the nineties.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: I did the the state semifinal game in Kentucky and it was the num the I I think at the time it was four A and they've
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: grown classes since then. But it was the number one seed versus the lowest remaining seed, and the lowest remaining seed pulled a huge upset with a Hail Ma Hail Mary on the last play of the game for the win.
Matt: that's awesome. Is that no, I I I do have to ask a follow up on that. When you see something like that at the end of a game, something so cool and exciting, is it hard to separate I'm an official right now and not let your fandom show through?
David: No, that's that's the the interesting thing because I watch games completely different now.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: It's I mean it it's I watch around like you know, when you're watching it, you watch the quarterback or you watch the running back.
Matt: Yeah.
David: I'm I watch around the players. I don't I'm I rarely watch the running back. I'm usually watching
Matt: Okay.
David: the the blockers, the wide outs, the linemen
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: to see to see what they're doing.
Matt: When you're watching them, what are you looking for?
David: so I I for the last however many years I've been the back judge. So I work deep
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: metal. we we we do a seven man crew or we did up until this year we're going to a six man crew. but so my my job is I have I have the the widest or the the slot guys on both sides.
Matt: Yeah.
David: And so if they're not in press coverage by by the receivers when I say press coverage, if they're not if they don't have a defensive back right up on the line or within a couple yards
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: of the line of scrimmage and they're back five or six yards, then then they're not impressed. So I I can loosely watch that and then I can peek in at the tackles. And those are those give you the keys of if it's gonna be a run or a pass.
Matt: Yeah.
David: So that makes it a little easier. And then what you see your initial keys, which mine are the slot guys, and then it just it goes from there for who comes into my areas or who
Matt: Yeah.
David: you're watching for on a pass play. And a running play you're just watching I'm watching downfield watching the wide receivers to see if they're holding or see if
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: they're hold if see how well they're holding 'cause they everybody holds.
Matt: I because in my opinion I think there you could probably throw a flag for holding on every single play. W would you agree with
David: Yes.
Matt: that?
David: Once they changed the rules when they went to open hand inside, you legalized whole.
Matt: Mm-hmm. That's a good point. Well
David: So I mean it it it just is so we actually the way we look at it is
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: if you're obstructing a player, meaning you're up inside, you've got him, you've got the player, and they're just going with you, then you're
Matt: Yeah.
David: obstructing them. But the minute that they say you're pushing them to the left and they want to go to their right and you you re you r start restricting them and you're keeping them from going back that way and it's at the point of attack where the ball's coming, that's
Matt: Yeah.
David: when it becomes a hold. So it's we
Matt: Makes total sense. And
David: say obstruction or restriction.
Matt: Well, it's it's funny that we've been talking about this 'cause w one of the questions I have for you, and it may be what we just discussed, but as an official, what is the one thing, or it could be more, that the average football fan is just completely clueless on?
David: Well, I a lot. and and I I I s I say this
Matt: That's fair.
David: because we we hear it nonstop. So the big thing is there's the NFL has their set of rules.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: Then NCAA has their s NCAA has their set of rules.
Matt: Yeah.
David: Well, high school and down, they're governed by what's called the National Federation of High School Sports.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: And their rules are are different than college, different than the NFL. And if you watch an NFL game, or or a college game, you know, everybody wears shorts now, nobody covers the
Matt: Yeah.
David: knees. Okay, well, in the NCAA rule book, they are required to cover their knees. But the NCAA has told the officials, don't worry about it.
Matt: I had no clue.
David: Yep, so that that is that is a rule. They're and they're they're
Matt: Yeah.
David: not they're supposed to cover their knees, but the NC the officials at the NCAA said don't don't worry about it. And I I th the the the biggest problem is that carries over 'cause every every Friday
Matt: Yeah.
David: night we have to go back out, go out and cover your knees, go out and cover your knees, go and cover your knees. And all they're doing is they're tucking their knee pads up up in.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: That's all they're doing. It's it
Matt: Yeah.
David: they're they're there. But they're not covering their knees and it it is it is a constant battle. And the coaches say, I do all I can and and my response to the coach is, No, you don't. Do you let
Matt: Ha ha
David: practice with their knee pads rolled up? Well yeah. Then you're not doing all you can.
Matt: Yeah.
David: You're letting them practice One way and then they have to play another. If you would enforce
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: this in practice, this wouldn't even be an issue. And now we're actually talking we're looking, the National Federation is looking at implementing a rule that if you have to keep sending players out for this, that you can start penalizing dil delay of games on them. It's not
Matt: dang.
David: it's that it it failed by two votes at the National Federation meeting in February this year,
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: but it only failed by two votes.
Matt: Now and I'll be honest, I'm clueless on this. How many people vote on something like that?
David: you have representatives from all I think forty eight states participate in
Matt: Okay.
David: the NFHS. Texas I know Texas uses NCAA rules
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: in in their high school sports. and I I'm not sure what the what why there's Why the there's only forty nine or forty eight. I don't know who the forty nine
Matt: Yeah.
David: the other one is, but Texas doesn't participate in the NFHS. So we our our we have a he's called our official clinician, Larry McClory.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: He he goes to these meetings, the guy in Ohio is Bo Ruggs, the guy in in Kentucky is Julian something. I can't remember Julian's last name. But they all and they're all part of this voting and the funny thing is is the guy in West Virginia and the guy in Ohio see things a lot differently. And and I'm registered in both states. I I haven't done a game in Ohio in years, but
Matt: Yeah.
David: but I'm registered over there 'cause I'm the president of our local association.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: But so so that's one 'cause people don't they it happens on Sundays. Like for example, the tush push, which is okay,
Matt: Yeah.
David: completely illegal in high school football. But when it happens and it's called, fans lose their mind because they see the Eagles do it.
Matt: Yes.
David: so that that th that's one of the funniest and and they keep adapting the rule. So
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: as as I move I'm transitioning from working the back judge position, so I'll be the the referee or the white hat on our crew this coming season.
Matt: Yeah.
David: So it's that that will be my primary call if if it happens in a game. And it as as we talked about in our interpreter's meeting up in Parkersburg a couple weeks ago, it's gotta be obvious, it's gotta be both hands in the back shoving forward.
Matt: Yeah.
David: If you're running into the pile and say your shoulder pad is digging into the the quarterback's back while you're pushing the pile
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: forward, that's gonna get a pass. But if you can't you can't push or pull.
Matt: I will tell you, I I know everybody's obsessed with the Eagles Tush push. I still
David: huh.
Matt: say the greatest Tush push of all time, Matt Leinert, Reggie Bush, USC versus Notre Dame Notre Dame. I don't know if you remember that game, but that to me is the most iconic tush push I've ever seen.
David: yeah, that was a great game.
Matt: It was. It was a fantastic game. Well, speaking of games, I gotta ask you this. What is the funniest thing a player, a coach, or fan has said to you while you've been officiating a game?
David: I will never forget this one as long as I live. This was this was my first go-round in the 90s. And we're doing this game and it was two smaller schools in Ohio. And somebody from the stands yelled out, hey, you guys better get back to the mall, they're looting your footlocker.
Matt: What? I mean
David: I thought that was hilarious.
Matt: it is it's very random.
David: It i it was and I mean, you know, y we've had some good ones. I I I I we always of course youth league, they they think they're funny, so say, no,
Matt: Yeah.
David: no, that's too close. I want a replay. I want I want that needs to go to replay. So I'll I'll b I'll turn around and put my hands up by my eyes and I'll look down and say sorry, replay confirms rolling on the field. And that
Matt: I mean I love that you have a you have a good attitude about it.
David: you have to. You have to. It's it can it can it can be I I was threatened to be shot back in twenty nineteen.
Matt: my goodness.
David: We had an active military guy that was coaching the
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: the the youngest group. I think it was C Team. And they were team was losing forty eight to nothing. The coaches got into it, so we sent off to the sides and one coach kept his mouth shut while G.I. Joe didn't. And I say it I say that because he was in full full fatigues, his name's on his fatigues. He's yeah, he's and we're joking before the game, so which one of us is gonna is gonna toss G. I. Joe 'cause he was way too high strung for C team, which is five and six year olds.
Matt: Yes.
David: And So he he didn't like being told he had to get to the sidelines. And mind you, the the the third quarter ended, it's forty-eight to nothing. And of course G.I. Joe's team's losing. I'd say his n I'd say I know his name because I
Matt: Yeah.
David: found out his name and I've not forgotten it.
Matt: Yeah.
David: but so he got ejected and at that point I ended the game because the losing teams fan
Matt: Mm. I'm forty eight nothing, so
David: yeah, the losing teams fans were getting out of control. And as he left the field, he told the people running we were at Nitro High School, but it was the first round of the playoffs, so we had eight games there that day.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: And as he's leaving the field, he looked at them and he told them he's going to get his weapons, he's gonna come back and kill us all.
Matt: no.
David: So Nitro P D took it serious. They had they had three cops walking the perimeter of of the complex and then they had three cops walking
Matt: Holy cow.
David: inside inside the the field. So it was it was taken serious. And to tell ya
Matt: Wow.
David: to tell you how that league disciplined him, I was so impressed. The following year they promoted him from assistant to head coach. First reg first regular season game we got we show up to this location and I said, Hey, some guy threatened to kill us last year. Is he still around?
Matt: Huh.
David: They said, no, no, now he's the beat he's the B team coach. He's the head coach. No. Well tell you what, my crew's the one he threatened to shoot. So I'm gonna go
Matt: my goodness.
David: discuss with them if they wanna do these games. And if they don't, you're going to pay us for the day and we're leaving. So the guys agreed and I said, Okay, this is the deal. I said, He
Matt: Yeah.
David: can't he can't speak to me. He can't speak
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: to any of us. That's that's he can't he can't he can't even say hello.
Matt: Wow.
David: Lo behold, something happened. He comes out on the field, he starts. I just put my hand up, like nope, not to the hand, and point it back to the sidelines. And he he was furious. So they finally they finally dismissed him from this youth program because he almost took a baseball bat to an umpire.
Matt: my goodness, that's like th y very
David: He had some he he had some inju issues.
Matt: clearly, wow we went from the funniest thing to the scariest thing that you've experienced.
David: I I almost got attacked, what, twenty twenty two?
Matt: By a coach or a
David: No, tr
Matt: fan.
David: fan. Tw no, twenty twenty-four. No, from a coach. We ejected his son and then he came out on the field and Apple didn't fall fall far from the tree. He got ejected pretty quickly.
Matt: my god, this
David: And you know, I I one of the best books I've ever read, and I don't know if if you deal with with high tension at work and have to de escalate
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: things, but it's a book called Verbal Judo. And it's
Matt: Mm-hmm. Heard of it, yep.
David: the art of de escalation, and it's a phenomenal book. It has taught me That you know what? Sometimes when you have something to say, you don't necessarily need to say.
Matt: Yes. One hundred percent. This is
David: And we got to the tournament director and he asked what's going on. I said, Well, he's ejected, he's ejected. They need to leave the area because we want to continue this game. And he said, Well, go on. So as I turned around to go back to the field, unbeknownst to me. This guy charged me, and if it wasn't for the tournament director grabbing hold of him, he he was a big old boy. He'd a he'd he would have put me in hospital 'cause I wouldn't
Matt: Yeah.
David: have seen him coming. And I was I I was stroke was in September of twenty twenty three. This is April of twenty twenty four.
Matt: Holy smokes. Yeah, that that's definitely not something to play with. Well I
David: So yeah, that that that stuff gets a little crazy. I mean, but there's there's been the footlocker's been the best one. Last year
Matt: That is pretty good.
David: last year we were doing a game at Capitol, that's where my ex-wife works, and she's the band she was
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: the band director. And Philip is an official with me. Or he was, he left my crew at the end
Matt: Yeah.
David: of last year, so he's going somewhere else. But Philip and I are on the field and s and the call happens, and his mother Band starts chanting I'm blind, I'm deaf, I wanna be a ref.
Matt: Hmm.
David: So I get on the radio and I say, Philip, you wanna you wanna pipe up to your mom there and have her shut the kids down? 'Cause we all we're radios, so we we say
Matt: Yeah.
David: we we we now that is we just hope nobody gets our frequency. I'll just put it that way, with the conversations we have.
Matt: Yes, I can imagine. We won't put you all on blast for what you're saying there. What I will put on blast really quick, I'm gonna throw this book in since you mentioned it, Verbal Judo, The Gentle Art of Persuasion, George J. Thompson PhD. Is that what you're talking about? There you go.
David: That is exactly what I'm talking about. Now what they they do lectures all over the country too. They do classes.
Matt: Mm-hmm. So if anybody's looking if somebody's a ref or an official or you know they have a high t high tension job, good book to check out. Now, I do gotta ask, we've been talking about people critiquing you. When you watch a game now, whether it's NFL, college, whatever you're watching, do you catch yourself critiquing the officiating you're watching on television? Okay.
David: If it's blatantly horrible, yes. But but for for the most part, I I just I I when it comes to NCAA games,
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: pass interference to me is cut and dry.
Matt: Yeah.
David: If you restrict your opponent from catching the ball, then that's pass interference. Either way, it's either offensive or defensive. Okay, now there's so much hand fighting that goes on anymore. I don't call it near like I used to.
Matt: Yeah.
David: But I c and and it's always funny you'll get you'll get a receiver that has just manhandled the defensive back. And and the defensive back's got his hands on them too, and the receiver will say, You're not gonna throw you not gonna put a flag on that and say, Who do I call it on? You or him? You guys are all over each other. And at that point they're like, okay, he's gonna he got point. And that that's another thing, just to go back to what people don't understand. So in past
Matt: Yeah.
David: interference in high school, the restrictions For pass interference on the offense, begin at the snap. So a receiver cannot go downfield blocking on a pass
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: play. Because he knows it's a pass.
Matt: Yeah.
David: So that's that's technically offensive pass interference. Now the defensive back, his restrictions go live once the ball's in the air. So at our meeting last night, we were going we were doing film review, and it was screen passes that go past the line of scrimmage.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: And they're not supposed to, but do you call in it an eligible man downfield by the lineman, or if he's blocking when the ball's in the air, do you call offensive pass interference?
Matt: Ooh.
David: So that's the I mean, you've you've got a ten or a fifteen yard penalty.
Matt: Yeah.
David: So you it's it's one of those things you have to determine. So it that was it was just a great discussion last night in our meeting.
Matt: Mm-hmm. No, it it's it's very clear officials everywhere are dealing with a lot more than anybody understands or comprehends about the game. And I I think we've kind of touched on this already, but I'm gonna ask the question. Obviously, you've shared some stories of the grief you're getting, whether it's humorous or you've got a guy threatening you or somebody trying to assault you while on the field. From your perspective as offici as an official, what would you want people to know? about the people officiating the game or about their bad reactions to calls.
David: You're driving officials out of away from the game.
Matt: Yeah.
David: And we're already so when I officiated in the nineties, our association had a hundred and fifty some officials.
Matt: Wow.
David: We have fifty six today.
Matt: Holy cow.
David: And we our retention is abysmal.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: We have 13 rookies this year. We half of them won't come back.
Matt: Yeah.
David: And and it's because of fans, coaches, and players. Because
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: it it it's it's a combination of all three and and it's it just when the coaches start, the fans watch it, so they do it.
Matt: Mm. Mm-hmm.
David: And then the the pay the players are watching the fans and the coaches, so they do it.
Matt: Yeah.
David: And and that's that's one of the most difficult things because you we're watching so many different things. And you might have a say say the ball goes around the right end. You got a sweep going around the right end, and the the left tackle tackles the left defensive end. Completely away from the ball. Okay. I mean if it's if it's egregious and he picks him up, throws him down, yeah, you're gonna have a you're gonna have a personal foul.
Matt: Yeah.
David: But if it's just a hold and he's restricting him from going, there's not I've I've not seen a Lawrence Taylor in high school. And that's the only guy that could have made that play. And and coaches coaches get upset about it. And the the number one number one thing, and I hate you Matt Matthew McConaughey for saying this, play till the whistle blows. In high school Ball carriers on the ground or out of bounds. Doesn't matter if the whistle blows or not, plays dead. So when you hear when when when I I hear coaches, I didn't hear a whistle. Guy's on the ground with the ball. He's down.
Matt: Yeah.
David: And you have to, it's it's it's a constant, a constant education. But the the average fans don't realize this and and it it it they get on it. I mean, when we can't parents come up to us all the time and try and show us a phone that they videoed the play. We we we can't we can't look at that. I mean we're we're
Matt: Yeah.
David: we're forbidden from looking at that. If I
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: have a coach do it that comes up and says, Here, you need to look at this, he gets an automatic fifteen. That's not sports. Yeah, it's
Matt: wow. Yeah.
David: it's and it it's just on it we don't even I don't even fool with it. but parents will come up and they'll they'll accost us after games and want to show us videos and and and It's just they don't seem to understand. The only time in high school football, at least in the state of West Virginia or the state of Ohio, I'm not sure about Kentucky,
Matt: Yeah.
David: is the only time replay is used is in the state championship games.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: And two, maybe three years ago, three years ago, there was a play by North Marion. This kid made it was number one on Sports Center that night. It was Guy makes a one-handed catch and does a toe touch.
Matt: Yeah.
David: Well, the the r the official was I'll I'll I'll say this because we we've looked at this play over a hundred times. The official was drastically out of play
Matt: Yeah.
David: or out of position. All he could see was one or the other. And in where he was, he was the one that had to judge both. So before you can judge possession, you've got to judge that he gets a foot down. And he was just all he was looking at was the ball. So that's why he rolled it incomplete. but but yeah it's it's it's we have there's so many things we're looking at and they don't the the average fan doesn't understand it. And it gets a little frustrating when when you're you're you're booed or cussed or whatever
Matt: Yeah.
David: and it it's it's it's even better when they know you and they call you by name. I mean that's just
Matt: Well, I I I'm gonna I'm gonna say this, you know, for anybody listening, and I and I've been this guy, like I've been watching officials and I'm like, What are you looking at? Are you blind and thinking these things? You you have really humanized this this evening, that there are real human beings like you who are trying to make the best call when there's so much stuff happening around them. Like you said, you're focused on a certain area of the field, you can't see everything. It's happening in real time. So let's give officials a break. I think Dave, you could probably agree with me on that. Let's treat you all with some respect and
David: yeah.
Matt: give you all a pass, even on some of those bad plays. Unless it's super egregious, you're human beings and things are gonna happen.
David: Exactly. And and and that's the unfortunately, in high school, in high school, we're the only ones that have to be perfect on every play. College and pro, hey. Guys
Matt: Ha ha.
David: they don't I mean, there are officials that'll well, I'll just call it this way, they're gonna review it anyways.
Matt: Yeah.
David: And that's their mindset. With us, we we we don't have that luxury. So we have to try and and and be perfect every time.
Matt: Yeah.
David: And it's it's i it it's it's I still love it. I mean you still get those butterflies. I every Friday night I get those butterflies
Matt: Ha ha
David: walking out on the field. I love it. And now I just have to make sure 'cause we're mic'd up. The white white hats are mic'd up. I've got to make sure I push the right button and I'm not talking into the radio and talking into the I do wanna I do wanna recreate. I so hope it happens this year. I know it'll cost me a playoff game. But if I get a if I get a guy I wanna do the recreate the I got a personal foul on offense number seventy, he was giving him the business. I still want to recreate that.
Matt: Ha ha. Huh. Dave, before we jump into these top fives, thank you for educating everyone on officiating. I've learned a lot. It's given me perspective because, like I said, I get really mad at my television sometimes and what I think are egregious calls. So, for anybody listening, today's topic, since we're talking about football, is the top five West Virginia football players. And I want to be clear, that doesn't mean WVU. We went with West Virginia football players because it gives us more people to work with. And with this list, I don't know where David's gonna head with his players, but it could be people that grew up in West Virginia, it could be people that played at WVU or who played at Marshall or other West Virginia schools. So David and I were both Marshall graduates. we both grew up in West Virginia, so I expect or expect us to probably have some Marshall guys on our list and For the purposes of this podcast, I consider us experts. So if you're a first-time listener, here's how the podcast works. Each of us have put together our own lists for the top five West Virginia football players. There is one that if it is not on David's list, I am going to be shocked. I think he and I will have one that makes both of our lists today, maybe more, but David will kick things off. He'll give his number five player and why they made number five on his list. I'll give my number five and why they made number five on mine, and we'll keep going in that fashion until we get to each of our number ones. So David, I'm gonna hand it to you. When you looked
David: Okay.
Matt: at West Virginia football players, who was number five for you?
David: I looked at solely you had to grow you had to be born and play in West Virginia.
Matt: Okay.
David: So it didn't matter where you went to, where you went to school. And and it was I had a I had a 5A, 5B, but I just w I'm gonna go ahead and with, I'm just gonna go with the one. So my number
Matt: Okay.
David: five is Fulton Walker. He's out of he grew up at Martin in Martinsburg, West Virginia. He played football at WVU.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: in West Virginia. po a postseason award for the special teams player of the year is called the Fulton Walker Award in the state of West Virginia. So he
Matt: had no idea.
David: he he was the first player to return a kickoff or a touchdown in a Super Bowl. It was the Miami Dolphins versus the Washington Redskins. And it was a 98 yard kickoff return. So it was the longest at that point and the first one ever returned for a kickoff. And he did play in two Super Bowls. One one with with the Dolphins and one with the 49ers. So he was my number five.
Matt: I like that. I I will be honest, as I did research, I don't remember coming across him. So good entry. I went a little bit of a different route than you. So I went with the fact that if they played for a West Virginia school and college, I included them.
David: Okay.
Matt: So my number five, since yours are born and bred West Virginia, we will not share this one. My number five is Byron Lefwich. And I got to watch Byron play in person. I got to watch him
David: Mm-hmm.
Matt: play a lot on television. played his high school ball in DC. For anybody who's unfamiliar, he was quarterback at Marshall University. In 2000, he earned the starting job at Marshall after Chad Pennington had left school. That season, he'd be the MVP of the 2000 Motor City Bowl. In 01, he was part of, I think, one of the greatest comebacks of all time, the 64-61 win in double overtime in the GMAC Bowl. for that game, Marshall was down thirty eight to eight at the half when Leftwich took over. In that game, he threw for five hundred and seventy-six yards, four TDs and two INTs. Now, David, do you remember the 2002 game against Akron? And if you do, what do you remember from Leftwich in that game?
David: I remember him and being so pissed off that they made him go to the hospital.
Matt: He's a good
David: He and they could they couldn't get him there in an ambulance. He jumps in a minivan. They drive him, they x
Matt: Uh-huh.
David: ray his leg, they bring him back, and then they're carrying
Matt: Yes.
David: him down the field. I mean it was just it's it's just in that running with the herd documentary they did,
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: you see him he's in a getting into a gold minivan in the front seat.
Matt: Mm.
David: And they're driving him to the hospital. So an amazing game. Now I was there
Matt: Yes.
David: I was there in mobile in that
Matt: Yeah.
David: game. And my dad, for some reason, he let me he I I got to go with him on the charter, which was awesome because I that's
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: a that's the only one I ever went to. And I remember sitting there, it's thirty eight to three. And I'm like, son of a gun, if I'd have drove,
Matt: Ha ha ha.
David: I'd have been I'd be in the car right now on my way home. But the best line I heard that night was if I wanted to see a team play this bad, I'd have driven to Morgantown.
Matt: Mm-hmm. That's such a good line.
David: Ha ha ha.
Matt: yeah, that no, so the Akron game, you gave a better description than I could, If people are not familiar with Lefwitch's legacy at Marshall, here it is. Two-time Mac offensive player of the year, first time first team all-MAC, Mac MVP, at Marshall he threw for 11,900 plus yards, 89 TDs, sixth in Heisman voting in 2002, drafted seventh overall by the Jags in 03, started four years for the Jags, then of course became kind of a perennial backup at that point in the NFL. And while his NFL career wasn't stellar. I do think that just his college career for me made him number five on my list. David, I gotta ask you, if you considered players who just played at a West Virginia school, would Leftwich have been in consideration? Okay. Okay.
David: he was he'd he'd definitely be in there. He'd definitely be in there. He he is one in the and the funny thing about Byron, a lot of people don't realize this, he said six five,
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: six six. He's got size eight feet.
Matt: I didn't know that.
David: Tiny feet. So when he was when he was with the Steelers, and he you know, he's the Super Bowl champ. He was a backup with the Steelers.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: And he was it's first play of the game, Ben got hurt, he comes in, he runs a 35 or 38 yard yard touchdown, and they smack one foot into the other, falls and breaks his arm in the end zone, and Charlie Batch recovers him. Another another Mac quarterback.
Matt: Uh-huh.
David: but when you talk about the Jags, you know what's funny? When you think about his time at the Jags You know who replaced him as the starting quarterback?
Matt: Was it David Girard?
David: It was. And who was the quarterback East ECU when Byron won the sixty four sixty one game? It was David.
Matt: Yeah, it's it's crazy how their careers had those parallels.
David: it's just insane. But yeah, I'll never forget that game and I and s the the coach was shocked. He was fired after that game. I can't understand it.
Matt: Well David, I'll kick it back to you. Who made number four on your list today?
David: Well, n number four, and again I'm I'm going back I'm going back in in in time here. Again,
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: a South Charleston guy. Carl Lee, who grew up in South Charleston, West Virginia, he played at Marshall. He's in the MU Athletics Hall of Fame. Played eleven seasons with the Minnesota Vikings. It's a three time Pro Bowl. He was named One of the fiftiest fifty greatest players in Viking history. And you think about some of the t some of the players they had. You had the Purple People Leader defensive
Matt: yeah.
David: line, you had Fran Tarkington. I mean, you had some amazing players, and he's he's considered one of the top fifty of all time. I've
Matt: Yeah.
David: actually met the man, he gives selfishly of his time or selflessly of his time to South Charleston youth football.
Matt: wow.
David: He is an amazing, humble individual that is just fun to talk to. So
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: doing the officiating and doing a lot of youth football, I've had multiple opportunities to talk with with Carl and he as he says he goes, you know, I was I was blessed that they kept me as long as they did. And and that's the way he looks at it. I mean, because I'm I'm a West Virginia boy playing with the big
Matt: Yeah.
David: boys up with the Vikings. He and he just I just think he he was one it's so funny we Ten of went to went to eat last night after our officials meeting. We we meet once a week up until the season starts, since every two weeks to go over film and all this other stuff. So I'm talking to him about this list. And and I ha I actually had Kurt Warner. He was one of the other ones on there from Pineville, West Virginia, played with
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: the Seahawks. But he got bumped for Carl Lee because I I just I just felt like Lee's career career was longer.
Matt: Yeah.
David: And he w he had more Pro Bowl seasons than than Kurt Warner did, not to discount Kurt Warner out of little Pineville, West Virginia.
Matt: Hey, you're you're not discrediting him. It is hard to make a list and only make it five people. It is so tough. And
David: That is true. Yeah.
Matt: every time I do one of these episodes, I struggle, my lists change. I'll be honest, I'm looking at this guy's stats. I I feel bad that I did not know who Carl Lee was prior to tonight, because dude's had a heck of a career.
David: He did.
Matt: it like this is some fantastic accolades, so I I'm learning something new as we're recording this this evening. Well go ahead. I was gonna say my my number
David: Who who's your number three?
Matt: four, Chuck Howley. Does he make anywhere on your list today?
David: He is number three.
Matt: Okay, so hopefully don't steal too much of your thunder. I'll give you why he was number four for me. so this is a guy played at Willing Central Catholic High School and Warwood High School. Do not ask me where Warwood High School is, because I have no clue. I don't think it exists anymore. Played football, basketball, and baseball in high school. played for WVU, playing guard and center, a three-time all-conference player and conference player of the year in 1957. Based on the research I did, he was the only athlete in WU history to letter in five sports: football, track, wrestling, gymnastics, and swimming. Would not have guessed either of the last two. All-around athlete, later inducted into the WW Hall of Fame, selected seventh overall by the Bears in 1958, suffered a severe knee injury in 1959 before being traded to the Cowboys, and With David's team, the Cowboys, should have seen it coming for him being on your list. He saw
David: Ha ha ha.
Matt: a major success. 1968 set the record for the second most interceptions by a linebacker. In Super Bowl V, the Cowboys lost 16-13, but he was still awarded the Super Bowl MVP, becoming the only player from a losing team to win MVP, the first defensive player and non-quarterback to win the award. During that game, he intercepted two passes and forced a fumble. The following year, when the Cowboys won the Super Bowl, Halley would force a fumble recovery and record an interception. He's been inducted into the Ring of Honor at Texas Stadium. He's inducted into the Texas Sports Hall of Fame. He's a six-time Pro Bowler, five time first team all pro, two time second team all pro, and WWU retired as number. And since he you said he's your number three, right?
David: Yes.
Matt: I'll just go ahead and hand it to you. What am I missing? What you he he ranked number three for you.
David: So one of the most famous games is is we'll talk about with with my number two guy, but there is there there are there are games that the NFL has have immortalized. And one of is the Ice Bowl.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: And Chuck Howley played in the Ice Bowl against the Green Bay Packers.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: And I still think Bart Starr fumbled and fell down before he crossed the goal line.
Matt: Ha ha ha
David: I'm just gonna say it just gonna say it. Nope, nope
Matt: Hey, you can put that out there, that's okay.
David: I I I have, nobody believes me.
Matt: Ha ha ha.
David: But but yeah, that everything else everything else that you sa you mentioned I had. I it's just I think it's really impressive. You know, Pro Fo pro Football Hall of Fame, WV
Matt: Yeah.
David: Hall of Fame, College Football Hall of Fame. and again, I think the the biggest tell, the only player from a losing team to win the win the MVP. That's just that's just huge.
Matt: I it is. And I think 'cause the I think the NBA has that too, 'cause Jerry West is the only
David: Yes.
Matt: guy, which interestingly enough, another West Virginia guy. So look at West Virginia showing out I guess when losing, but that's still impressive.
David: Right. So who's your number three?
Matt: So my number three will not be on your list 'cause he's not from West Virginia originally, and it is Chad P. Pennington. And I hope this is a name that people listening to this recognize, but Pennington didn't start playing football until high school. He was only being recruited by two colleges, those are Middle Tennessee State and the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga. He ended up going to a training camp at Marshall, gained the attention of the head coach, accepted a scholarship, and the rest is history. So in 95, Pennington led Marshall to the AA football championship game, which Marshall lost 22 to 20. In 96, he was red-shirted. And in 97, as Marshall moved to Division I, Pennington led the nation in passing TDs with 39, leading Marshall to win the 1998 Motor City Bowl, in which Pennington won MVP. In 99, he led the nation in completion percentage and in passing TDs. Marshall went undefeated that season, Pennington went fifth in the Heisman voting, and in his college career, Pennington threw for over 13,000 yards and 115 TDs. He was selected 18th overall by the New York Jets, spending eight seasons with the Jets, three with the Dolphins. And while his stats aren't, you know, earth-shattering in the NFL, I still think they're decent. He led the NFL in passer rating in 2002. He led the NFL in completion percentage in 02 and 08. Comeback player of the year in 06 and 08, and during his NFL career he threw for over 17,000 yards, 102 TDs, and had a 90.1 passer rating. David, this is another one that if if we if you had looked at people that weren't born in West Virginia, would Pennington be on your list today?
David: He would have been my number two.
Matt: Okay. Why would he have ranked so high for you?
David: I I I love the guy. he's he's not only done a lot and been a great ambassador for martial football, he is
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: one impressive individual.
Matt: Yeah.
David: To have a conversation with the guy just a very, very humble guy. When he when he was playing, I was I did a lot for sport. I did stuff in the press box during the games
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: of sports information. And there were times I'd walk into the sports information office and he'd be in there and he'd say, how you doing? And so I'm Dave Rydell. He goes, Well I'm Chad Pennington. I said, Yes sir. He goes, So
Matt: HAHA
David: Mr. Ridel, how are you? And I said, no, no, no, I'm David. Paul's Mr. Rydell. And just just a a an incredible individual. And the guy
Matt: Yeah. Well
David: The guy gives and gives and gives. A lot of
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: things a lot of people don't know this, and I and I'm hoping this guy's not on your list. But if he is, then I'll talk about some stuff. But there there was one player that Doc Holiday brought Chad in to try and mentor.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: And it was a quarterback. And the guy was so arrogant and egotistical, he wouldn't listen to a thing. that Chad was trying to teach him.
Matt: Yeah.
David: And it's it's it it it's just i you y you you've got a guy like Chad who's who is just a brainiac. I'm I'm really
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: I we brought his s we brought Cole in here as his his middle son or his oldest son and he just it just didn't work out and he's at Garner Webb,
Matt: Yeah.
David: last I heard. And of course the youngest is at Dayton, Luke, or the middle son. And apparently
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: the youngest who is gonna be a quarterback at Garner not Garner Webb I'm Sayer in Lexington, they're saying he's gonna be better than both those two put together. So not only was he a great quarterback, apparently his lineage is really sprouting well, but he
Matt: Yeah.
David: he was impressive. He was a very cerebral quarterback. And I think one of the most impressive things that were ever said when they were interviewing Randy Moss, when they were talking about quarterbacks, he goes, Hey, you wanna get me a quarterback that can throw me the ball? Bring me Chad Pennington.
Matt: That is like the ultimate sill of approval right there.
David: Yes.
Matt: Well, I know you said Pennington would be your number two if you had looked at people that just played in West Virginia. Who was your number two on the list today?
David: That would be Sam Huff from Farmington, West Virginia. He
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: played at WVU. This guy was just a beast. WV retired as number 75. He was he's a member of the College Football Hall of Fame. WV Hall of Fame, Pro Football Hall of Fame. He was NFL Rookie of the Year, played in the greatest game ever played between Baltimore and the New York Giants, and that game lasted
Matt: Yeah.
David: forever. Just an incredible game. Johnny Unitis, I think, is the one that came through with the victory.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: I have a great Johnny Unidas story if you're interested at the end.
Matt: Okay. I mean you can even hit it now if you want to.
David: well, so I I I actually use this in job interviews.
Matt: Okay.
David: So the, you know, we w interviewing for a job, I said, look, I can exceed your expectations if I'm given the chance. I'm asking for the chance.
Matt: Ooh.
David: And they'll they'll look at me. And I'll usually I I'll set it up. I said, I'm gonna use the Johnny Unidas clothes on you. And they're Johnny Unitus? What? And I said, Who drafted Johnny Unitus? Baltimore Colts. I said, no. Pittsburgh Steelers drafted Johnny Unitus. They looked at him in training camp, said, I'm sorry. We can't use you. One of the greatest guys to ever play the game, a quarterback, back in that era. And the Pittsburgh Steelers looked at him and said, Sorry, we can't use you. So
Matt: I had no idea he'd been drafted by them.
David: Yep. Yeah, the Pittsburgh Steelers were the ones that had him first and they looked at him and said, I'm sorry, I we can't use you. That's actually got me two jobs.
Matt: wow. I mean it's a good quote. Yeah.
David: Thankfully thankfully I backed it up. But he pulled in and do a gosh, I'm trying I can't even think of that running back's name for the Cowboys when they paid him all the money and and he just disappeared. You you know him. Ohio State guy. Yes. He had
Matt: you're talking recent, right? you're talking about Ezekiel Elliot. come on. He was good for a bit.
David: th three gate great years, he got the paycheck and he just disappeared. So
Matt: It it goes one or one of two ways. Somebody either Yeah,
David: He did get hurt.
Matt: th that happens, but you see some guys they fall off once they get that big money, and then some very few
David: Yes.
Matt: decide they're gonna keep working.
David: Right. Kicking into overdrive.
Matt: Yes.
David: But but NFL all decade team, first player to appear on Time magazine. First
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: NFL football player to ever appear on Time Magazine was Sam Huff. So he's also he's in the New York Giants Ring of Honor and also the as I say, I still refer to them as the Washington Redskins Ring of Honor.
Matt: Yeah. It it's funny, he was on my honorable mentions, so I I looked
David: Okay.
Matt: at him, but he was he I think he was number six as I was making this list today.
David: Well he's he i I'm old school I you know, I'm I'm the Gen Xer so I I I went back to guys that you know, I I I never saw him play 'cause he I was I wasn't born until sixty eight, but
Matt: Yeah.
David: but he's he's one that you grew up and and there's there an award named after him in the state of West Virginia for for postseason.
Matt: Yeah. Well, it's funny that you say that you're a Gen Xer and you're going back in time, 'cause I went back in time for my number two. And did Frank Gatsky get any consideration for you today?
David: Ooh. He did not, 'cause he didn't he wasn't from West Virginia. But
Matt: Yeah. So e he
David: Gunnar's Gunnar Gatzke, he mean impressive.
Matt: Yes. So as I was looking at his background here, we're talking that when he played high school football, there was a cow pasture that they played in. No scoreboard, bleachers, or even a game clock. And he played two years at Marshall before entering the entering the military in World War II. After returning from war, I did not realize this, he played at Auburn for a bit. And actually finished up with college, went back to working in the coal mines. One of his friends said, Hey man, you should go try it out for the Cleveland Browns. So he hitchhiked to Bowling Green, Ohio for the team's training camp. And in 1948, so we're talking back in the 40s, I did,
David: Well you did go old you went way back.
Matt: I did. He became the starting center for the Cleveland Browns. Now, while they were part of the AAFC, the Browns would win four championships. When they joined the NFL in 1950, Gatske continued to help lead the team to success, winning four NFL titles in 50, 54, 55, and 57, which the 57 title was after he had been traded to the Lions, who beat his former team. So he made the Pro Bowl in 56, was a four-time first team All-Pro, and one-time second team all-pro. And this is why he's number two for me, because this is like Q up DJ Khaled's. All I do is win. In his professional
David: Mm-hmm.
Matt: career, he won eight championships. He played in 11 championship games out of 12 seasons played, which is a professional football record. he did not miss a game or practice in 12 years. He's in the Cleveland Browns Ring of Honor and his Marshall University jersey was retired. So I look at him as almost like the Bill Russell of or anybody from the Celtics, like the NBA time. That's what he was for the NFL. Makes number two for me. David, you s you seem like you know Gatsky. Am I missing anything that needs to be noted on him?
David: No, that it it's I I you you g you gave some stats that I didn't I wasn't aware of. But yeah, he's he is the only only football player in Martial history to have a Jersey retirement. Yes.
Matt: Mm-hmm. Very impressive dude, for sure.
David: Yes. He he is he he w he was something else and and and I don't think we do enough to honor him.
Matt: Yeah.
David: Like like some of the other ones we have. But I mean, of course he's
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: passed. But still, I mean I think I think he's somebody we need to we need to spend more time at at at Marshall talking about. Yes.
Matt: Yeah, highlighting, definitely. Well, David, we're we're getting to your number one, and if it is not who I think it is, I'm going to be appalled.
David: Well I had imagined it's yours too. no.
Matt: So who is your number one today?
David: it's gotta be Rakeem Cato. Just kidding. Just kidding. Just kidding. Just
Matt: I about fell out of my chair.
David: kidding. That's the quarterback I was talking about that ignored Chad's advice.
Matt: He wouldn't even wear consideration on my list.
David: No, he to me to me he is he he he well wo no my my number one is is out of Rand, West Virginia, Randy Moss,
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: because College Football Hall of Fame, Pro Football Hall of Fame, Nineteen Ninety Six Nan National Champion, Ninety Seven Bl Blintnikov Award winner. I think he was fifth in the Heisman voting. He was
Matt: Uh-huh.
David: the NFL All Decade team of two thousand. Anniversary all-time team, six time Pro Bowl. Led the NFL in receiving TDs five times in ninety-eight, two thousand, three, seven, and eight. Led Marshall to an undefeated season at at in ninety-six with Eric Kresser throwing in the ball, had another impressive season in ninety seven with Chad Pennington throwing him the ball. Set a record for consecutive games in college with a touchdown.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: And just an impressive, impressive individual. Started at Notre Dame, didn't didn't didn't play it down there. Went to FSU, didn't play it down there. Went actually talked to Don Nealan about coming up there. Nealan said, Well I'm not changing my offense for you. Who are you?
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: So thankfully Don Nealin is a three yards in the cloud of dust kind of guy at that point. So
Matt: Yeah.
David: we got we got blessed to have Randy Moss. Yes, he had some history, he had some trouble, and and as as a lot of kids do, nowadays what Randy did is just it's not even considered a crime anymore, it's in some
Matt: Uh-huh.
David: places. But he he came in and he he really helped. And I'll never forget Bobby Bowden, Montana's coach, and I can't remember the guy, I'm I wanna say shoot. Can't remember the guy's name, but he had a conversation with Bobby Bowden. He goes, You know, he goes if you'd a kept Moss down Florida State, wouldn't have we'd have both been national champions in ninety six. So but I I watched my my favorite game, two two two of my favorites. I sat
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: in a press box with when Moss played, so I had I had great seats for all of his games. And I will never forget we're playing the Citadel and they've got this guy. A lot of times you pulled the s you pulled the the the free safety over and you doubled him high low. Well, they had this quarterback this corner playing press coverage on Moss one on one. So we're at the press box going we're trying to get the Citadel Sports Information Director, hey, did he do something wrong? Did is he in the coach's doghouse? He's he they're making him cover Moss one on one. I mean, it was just we we would have all kinds of fun. But my my favorite game in that ninety six season, and this
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: is this this ranks For me, this ranks number one all time in Marshall victories. I know a lot of people will disagree. They think the Xavier win, which it it was huge. It's it's this is a toss up.
Matt: Yeah.
David: But you being a Marshall fan, when they beat Furman fifty four to nothing in the quarterfinals of the nineteen ninety six national championship tournament, that was to me the most gratifying Marshall win prior to the national championship.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: simply because or no, I mean that that that even superseded the ninety two national championship.
Matt: Yeah.
David: Because Furman they were such arrogant jerks Every time they came to town you hated And
Matt: Yeah.
David: I co I coached volleyball at Marshall in ninety one. So Furman, beautiful campus, beautiful facilities. Arrogant jerks, all even on a volleyball court. Just hated So that was so satisfying to me. And I was
Matt: Yeah.
David: I love X because it's got somebody from somebody some Marshall fan is putting all these highlights out there and they had that that game, the highlights from that game, and I just watched it over and over and over. but I'm trying to think of I mean he he was he he was did a little bit everything. one
Matt: He he did.
David: of the other one of the other things that people don't remember is he didn't train, but he went to the Southern Conference track meet. Yeah, he won a couple Southern Conference titles without training. That was the other one.
Matt: He did He did. I it was as it was the the nineteen ninety six, the sixty meter and the hundred meter sprints is what he won and it's my understanding did it with zero training, like did not practice, just ro waltzed out of a car and just destroyed everyone.
David: No. No. But yeah, he
Matt: It it's
David: he was he was something else. So I'm I'm gonna assume he's your number one.
Matt: by far. And you know, I'm I'm looking through the notes I had and I want to make sure I don't repeat anything 'cause you hit a a lot of the stuff, but I'll take it back to his high school days for a moment. So when you're talking about Randy Moss here, we're talking about a dude who played football, basketball, baseball, and track. Now we know football, I mean he was playing wide receiver, free safety, he returned kicks and punts, kicker and punter, but Basketball, he was a superstar as well. So a basketball player from West Virginia that people should know, Jason Williams, goes by white chocolate. Yep, played Sacramento Kings.
David: That was his setup, man. Yep.
Matt: Moss was actually the best player on that team. in '94. Moss was player of the year. Actually, I think he was two-time West Virginia Basketball Player of the Year while at DuPont. 94 Player of the Year in high school football. 95, he was an all-American. In 2009, he was ranked one of the fifty greatest high school players of all time. You hit all of his college stats. He's still got records that he holds today. I think one of the most impressive is when he hit the most TD passes caught in a season, he tied a guy by, you know, the name of Jerry Rice. And in the NFL, he still holds the record for most receiving TDs by a rookie in a single season with seventeen back in ninety-eight. and most receiving TDs in a single season in 2007 with 23. And David, I'll tell you this, I would put Moss probably number one on multiple lists. If we were talking best receiver, boom. If we're talking best athlete, he's in the running for that for me. Just when you're better than another NBA player on your team, and that's your secondary sport, and as
David: Right.
Matt: we both talked about, you roll out of a car And you go out and win a track meet, and I think I think he also set records that day in the track meet. Just an all around great athlete. I will say this, moss has popped up on a previous episode. I think it was episode six, we talked about our top five favorite athletes we've watched in person. I got to when you were in the press box, I was in the stands as a child watching Moss play in those
David: nice.
Matt: games. And I know we talked about he's had a little bit of maybe some what what wouldn't be deemed as tr problematic or troubling these days, but was back then in terms of some of his actions off the field. But I think we can all agree Moss has ended up being a fantastic ambassador for West Virginia. Great dude. one of those guys that you're like proud to say came from this state. And one of well just say it, I think personally, the greatest wide receiver of all time is Randy Moss. Are we missing anything
David: without a doubt.
Matt: else on Moss that that people need to know?
David: No, I I think I I I think the big thing is Pruitt really helped him grow up.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: I think that was that was one of the the things that that people don't realize. He was he was immature. I mean he he
Matt: Yeah.
David: had a problem. and he did stay away from from the weed that got him in trouble at Florida State here at Marshall.
Matt: Yes.
David: And and and yeah, but Pruitt was on him. And
Matt: Yeah.
David: and he i it's my understanding he had people watching him to make sure he didn't do anything stupid. It w it was. But
Matt: Smart call. Smart decision.
David: and that was that was one thing I I'll never forget going down two thousand and one, we opened the season at Florida and heck I th I thought you know, Pruitt had the fans fired up. I thought we're winning that game and they're the number one team in the country.
Matt: Yeah. Well
David: so I mean Bobby was a great he did a great job. Now Don and
Matt: Yeah.
David: I I still I still I know a lot of people get frustrated with Don and Donin by the way by the way he left and probably cost
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: us the ninety five national championship. But he was a guy that just and and this is somebody if I was choosing outside, you know, just people that played it played
Matt: Yeah.
David: at Marshall or W, Troy Brown would have made my list.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: and that was a guy that Chris Selfo was down at his junior college looking at an offensive lineman. And then he this receiver is just doing all this stuff. That's how we ended up with Troy Brown. Nobody was recruiting him.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: We Don and staff was just superb at finding the diamonds in the rough. And I think Tony Gibson's gonna have to go back to that mentality because in the day and age what we're in now, it's just With the money, you've got to find those diamonds in the rough that nobody's taking a chance on. Of course
Matt: yeah. Uhhuh.
David: then you only have them for a year.
Matt: Y yeah, unless you're one of the big programs and then, you know, if you're not, the Ohio States, the Indiana's, the Miamis of the world are gonna come and snatch those guys from you.
David: Right. And and you know gotta mention Indiana 'cause, you know, just Google me if you wanna know how good I am.
Matt: Exactly. Well
David: Hey, you know y you know Marshall's Marshall has a winning record against Signetti, just so you know.
Matt: I did not know that. I that was something that is news to me.
David: Yep, b they when he was coaching at JMU, Marshall beat him.
Matt: Does does Signetti know this? 'Cause, you know, he all he does is win, according to him. That's true. Well
David: Yeah, but if you Googling, that's there. I actually got I actually got Grok. I caught it up in a mistake. I was I said, What teams has Lane Kiffin never beaten?
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: And Marshall is one of those teams when he was at Florida Atlantic. And
Matt: Really?
David: Yeah, and and Grok came back and I said and of course it wasn't on there and I said, no, you're mistaken back in whatever whenever it was. I said said he lost to Marshall and and Groc, I stand corrected. You are correct and went through the stats of the it was it was hilarious. Yeah, I corrected AI. I'm smarter than you.
Matt: There you go. Y I that's why you're you're a an official. That's what you're doing. Well,
David: No, there you go.
Matt: David, I gotta ask, before we wrap up today, any closing thoughts on our list? Did we miss anybody? Like what are your thoughts as we
David: Yeah,
Matt: wrap up?
David: I I I we're both Marshall fans and and you know, some of the d some W V U guys. I mean, you got guys like everybody talks about Pat White. I'm a
Matt: Yeah.
David: I'm a I'm I'm a Major Harris guy.
Matt: Ooh, that's a good one, yeah.
David: Major Harris was just a beast. You know, he was one that was just did so many great things and
Matt: Yeah.
David: and I just Pat W Major Harris, if he didn't hurt himself, would have probably been a a decent pro.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
David: you know, and I think Pat White showed with that hit against the Steelers that he was never gonna be a pro. but but I i I I'm I'm one of those that you know, got you got the the the wide receivers, Tavon Austin. I mean he was he was great. But but again, with with us leaning towards Marshall, anyways,
Matt: Yeah.
David: I mean th those are everybody on our list was well deserving. I think I I mean I just just going back to the last my f my f fifth and fourth, I mean those are ones that Fulton Walker was a WU guy, but but Carl Lee, I mean, a solid NFL career. So I I en I enjoyed it. It was fun t and I always love to talk about officiating too because
Matt: Yeah.
David: it it's fun to to have a conversation when somebody's not telling you you suck.
Matt: No, my my whole goal today was to educate people that are listening to this and to see it from a whole other perspective. And I think that's p a big piece of why I started this podcast with the whole generational thing. There's a lot of stuff we disagree on, and a good way to deal with that sometimes is to chat about it. So you know why why does somebody stand where they stand? You may still
David: huh.
Matt: have your same opinion, but it's cool to hear the other side of an argument. And then we have days like today where Unequivocally, we both agree that number one is Randy Moss. So, you know, sometimes,
David: Well, absolutely.
Matt: regardless of generation, we say this is the right answer.
David: Exactly.
Matt: Alright, so at the end of this episode here, I want to drop an ad for Riverside, the podcasting service I use. It's the time of year where college football rankings are coming out. And if I had to give a ranking to apps where you can record audio and video files for podcasting or for training, Riverside holds the number one spot in my book. Riverside gives you the ability with editing tools to be like the head official, go to the booth, check out what happened, and make the correct call. Whether that means you gotta cut something that was set on your podcast. Podcast, eliminate some background noise, or add in some music at the beginning of your episode. If you're looking for an incredible app that has the distinction of being ranked number one in my top faves, give Riverside a listen, give them a try. I'll post an affiliate link in this episode description. As always, thank you all for tuning in. If you've not done so yet, like, subscribe, leave us a five-star review, tell a friend to check out this podcast. This was a topic that was suggested by a listener of the West Virginia football players. So if you have a suggestion for a topic that you'd like to hear covered, you can send those in to generational fave5 at gmail.com. That's generationalf e the number five at gmail.com. Thank you all for tuning in.