GAEL UnscriptED S2:E16 | How GLISI Builds Trust Based Leadership

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Welcome to Gale Lunch, where leadership meetings learning real conversation.
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I'm Ben Wiggins, Executive Director of Gale.
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Join us as we go beyond the headlines of Georgia's top education leadership.
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Let's elevate the conversation.
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Welcome back, Gail family, to another exciting episode of Gail Unscripted.
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As you can see, we've got some exciting guests today.
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Jenny and Leslie are back with us from Glissey for another episode.
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Very quickly, just in case there's anyone out there that didn't watch the first episode.
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I can't imagine that they did not.
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But just in case, take a minute to introduce yourselves to the audience.
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Well, hi y'all.
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Leslie Hazel Bussey, CEO and Executive Director of Glissey, the Georgia Leadership Institute for School Improvement.
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And I'm Jenny Welch.
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I'm Glissy's Chief Strategy and Growth Officer.
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And my name is Dr.
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Brian Kiefer, Executive Director of Professional Learning and Leadership Development with Fulton County Schools.
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I like the hey y'all, Leslie.
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That sounded really good.
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Is that the official welcome from Glissey?
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That is the official welcome from the descriptive.
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That is.
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For you and Jenny, our producer is coaching us over here.
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For those of you that aren't watching on YouTube, Ivy Young is a very tough producer and editor for podcasts.
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But the last time that we talked on episode one, we talked a little bit about Glissey and your impact across Georgia.
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How does Glissey approach designing for lasting changes?
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Well, I think Jenny and I both are going to take a stab at this, but we look forward to having Brian um speak into this as well.
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He'll jump in.
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I know he will, just like you will.
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We're so unscripted already.
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We are.
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But designing for lasting change, I think the the critical piece of our philosophy about adult learning is that leadership development we think about as adult development.
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It's not about transmission of information nearly as much as transformation of practice.
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And oftentimes I think in leadership development, that can mean people have to revisit some things that maybe they thought were true or um meet new versions of themselves.
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And so to design conditions for that kind of transformation, we think a lot about how do we create really safe environments for people to take risks and explore, um, explore new ideas.
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So we also know that the the safety that we feel often is is most we're feeling it right here because we're in community.
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There's a closeness here that can create a sense not of isolation, but maybe if I um try a new idea or I ask a question um that y'all might have my back instead of uh pushing me off the off the boat.
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One would hope.
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One would hope or laugh.
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The only other thing I'll add to that, you know, questions we talk about internally as a staff and a team of designers is how do we know that leaders are more effective as a result of their partnership with us?
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And in what ways can we point to learning conditions being improved for the type of transformation that Leslie's talking about?
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First and foremost, within that direct relationship we have with our partners, but even beyond that, when we're working with public school educators and leaders and central office teams, in what ways are learning conditions improved for students as a result of the work that we're doing with leaders.
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And then long term, you know, in our partnerships with philanthropy, and when we're thinking about what's the lasting impact we want to have on the state of Georgia, we're really thinking about not only leader effectiveness and learning conditions in schools, but we're thinking about community trust, educator retention, and we're really thinking about youth engagement beyond the classroom.
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So we look at some data around what's the percentage of youth ages 16 to 24 who are either employed or in school.
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And those data tell us something.
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And what we hope is true is that through the work that we're doing with education leaders and with public schools, that some of those downstream outcomes that we see evidence of a correlation and an association between our work and those sorts of more lasting changes that we hope to affect in Georgia.
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Perfect.
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I know teacher retention and leader retention is huge on and it's on the forefront of everyone's mind across not only the state of Georgia, but the country.
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So you touched on that a little bit, Jenny.
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Why don't you and Leslie just briefly talk about how a school district going through Glissey, how that will impact or what you've seen the impact on teacher retention and leader retention.
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Well, I'll talk about a couple of data points that we we do track, um, and they tend to be focused on the programmatic partnerships we do that are around developing cohorts of aspiring leaders.
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A critical part of our model for developing leaders is really starting before we ever work with any of the aspiring leaders, starting with kind of existing leaders uh at the district level and across the district, with defining a profile of a leader and really naming clearly what expectations are for who is a leader and what does leader practice, what does excellent leader practice look like?
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And the reason why we think that's an important part of that retention question is because it then begins to create kind of a culture of shared expectations, shared language, so that even teachers who might aspire eventually to become leaders have that transparent, clear kind of model and and and touch point to be able to talk about, think about leadership.
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And then the other thing is that it becomes uh in a lot of the districts we've worked with, um, that piece becomes a tool for self-reflection.
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What's interesting is that the process we use is kind of a design team process, and we'll we'll gather a lot of the expert leaders in the the district around.
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And it starts off thinking, uh, you know, the folks kind of the vibe is um, you know, we're gonna create this profile for these young whippersnappers, you know, that are coming up and and they don't know.
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They don't know, uh, but we do.
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We'll teach them the right thing.
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We're gonna teach them, we're gonna show them, right?
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And the beautiful part of that is that as the conversation goes on and on, and that profile starts to come clearer and clearer into focus, um, what happens around that table is wow, if we hold up a mirror first before worrying about anybody else, worry about yourself and the plank in your own eye, right?
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Um, and how could we make sure we're using this tool, not so that somebody else can tell me what to do, but I can really build that leadership capacity in myself and continuously drive my own practice toward this shared model.
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So that's a really critical part.
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Yes, we then do use that as a basis for the curriculum for aspiring leaders.
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Um, but the trick, I think, the retention practice is creating that cultural piece around shared expectations, a shared picture of what leadership looks like.
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Um and then the role model, the examples, right, um, that aspiring leaders can look to in the um in the sitting leaders.
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And what do we see as a result of that?
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We actually see really, really significant, um, significantly higher rates of retention and promotion among the participants in our ALP programs to the tune of five to six percentage points higher than the um the page study and then higher than the national rates of retention and intent to stay data.
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So we're really proud of that work, but again, I think that's part of it's not just that we're building the uh the the leaders coming up, but we're building the conditions within which those leaders are gonna work and thrive.
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Perfect.
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You got anything to add, Jeannie?
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I I know we have an upcoming episode, uh, so this is a bit of a promo where we'll talk specifically about our retain program.
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And that work is about leaders developing their own adaptive leadership skills and social emotional competencies to improve working conditions for teachers.
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And so um Leslie's named, I think, really clearly some of the data that we're proud about our uh leader retention data.
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But when we work with leaders to improve working conditions for teachers, we've seen some really incredible results in terms of reducing teacher attrition year over year by 50% for the past three years that we've been doing that work, which is um we continue to trouble those data.
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Um, but there's certainly an association that we have found between our work and those outcomes.
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So we're excited about that.
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Yeah.
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Well, the last time you were here, we talked a little bit and we talked about on this episode we were gonna have uh a district that has actually worked with you.
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You know, they heard in the first episode, they heard you all kind of talk about what Glissey does and offers, but we thought it'd be great to bring in a guest that has actually gone through work with Glissey.
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And Brian is here today to talk to us a little bit about that.
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So let's jump right in and let's talk to Brian a little bit from Fulton County Schools.
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Uh here's the first question we'll go with.
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How does Glissey enhance professional learning beyond typical or traditional types of PL or training for educators?
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So having uh the opportunity to have walked in a couple different spaces in uh my Glissey experience, uh the first uh serving in the role as a principal.
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Um, I specifically think about the Base Camp Leadership Summit that is an amazing opportunity that leaders have to bring their teams to a space where they are going deep into examining who they are as a team, uh how they identify problems of practice, and then how are they coming to a consensus on how they're going to move forward in solving for that problem that's applicable in any situation.
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So I think what made that what makes that experience different is oftentimes when we talk about problems of practice, we just talk about a problem.
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And we don't necessarily go as deeply as we should when it comes to getting to the true root of a problem.
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And then we don't do a lot of great work when it comes to how are we bringing all stakeholders to the table, honoring what they bring to the table, honoring their experiences, honoring who they are, and collaboratively identifying solutions that we are then accountable to implement.
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So we do holistically, when you think about what those experiences have looked like for folks, we don't go deep into the accountability.
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We don't go really well into honoring the people at the table and what they're bringing and knowing one another in the decision-making group.
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And that's been one of the major shifts that I think sets Galizsi's leadership development space apart from others that I've experienced in a principal space.
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And now that I'm in the district space, because I found the value in that in my own leadership space, we are now in the final stages of walking all of our middle school leadership teams through that.
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Because think about as a district as a whole, we spend a lot of time talking with elementary school instruction and leadership because that's where we're setting the foundation.
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And we talk about the literacy and we talk about all the things that we're doing to make those early experiences great.
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And then we talk a lot about the high school experience.
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We talk a lot about getting kids over the line for graduation, we talk about dual enrollment and these career exposure opportunities, but very little attention is given to middle schools.
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It's kind of that forgotten wasteland space that districts don't give as much attention to.
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And so we realized that we needed to do better to support our middle school leaders in that space.
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So as we walk after last year, where we brought half of our middle schools, and now we're bringing the rest of our middle schools this summer.
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The feedback that we received from our middle school leaders who attended for the first time last year were that this was such a different experience because it wasn't a go-to it, get it, and forget it.
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It was learning a strategy, learning one another in a way that was so much more meaningful to them that they then put the things in place while they were at BCLS to hold one another accountable to execute, because it's easy to go to a session and say, We're going to do this work, and then you come back to the start of a school year, and all the other things take your attention away from the good work that you did in identifying a plan.
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The difference was because it was made so much more personal by the intentionality of the BCLS experience, they've carried it forward in a way that they're now applying to all problems of practice that they're facing.
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I mean, I don't mean to shoot our own horn, but I guess that's what this is.
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Um and because I think this pulls a thread through from our first episode when we talked about the the centrality of trust.
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And Brian, when you're talking about this idea of these middle school teams coming to know each other and then what happens when they leave, I think that's where both we it's it's not like we give you trust, right?
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We don't we don't just explain trust.
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I think that's where oftentimes we fall short with professional learning, is that we we talk about trust, but we don't do the things that actually generate it and cultivate it.
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And I think that's what happens, right?
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Is that the transformation is that building of trust so that when you go back to school, there's no application.
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The transformation has taken place, and I I love to hear that.
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Talk about a little bit.
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Ryan mentioned, you know, as a leadership team and leaders, we have to look at ourselves.
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I think your words were inwardly.
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Um sometimes that's that is not a quick process, and sometimes that's a little um tough for people.
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It's a little bit uh they they've got to spend some time.
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Talk about that because I'm sure there's been at least one, probably high school principal, that was a little reluctant.
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But talk about maybe a success story, maybe without naming a name, but somebody that y'all have seen over the years that, you know, was a little standoffish, I don't know about this, superintendent's making us do this.
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But how that that person, again, without naming a name, how it really maybe transformed the culture.
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So I will not name the name, but hopefully they won't be able to identify themselves if they hear that.
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So in any district, there you will have leaders that have risen to a certain level of leadership or have been in that leadership position long enough that they look at any learning opportunity as another thing, or they're reluctant because they already feel they've reached the pinnacle.
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So we walked this person into this opportunity with BCLS, their immediate response was so we just have to go and and and this is what we have to do.
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And that was their approach.
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And so because of the intentionality of what happens in that learning, because of the structures and the the spaces of what we're guided through in that BCLS experience, there's just a natural awakening, I think that you could call it, that helps people realize the fact of I've felt that way because I was seeing leadership through my silo of my school, and I've been at my school so long, what else is there to learn?
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And I think that by being in the space not only with the other members of their leadership team, and by but by being in the space with other leaders from other districts and hearing that there are opportunities out there, we don't know everything we know, and we only know what we know.
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But when you are intentionally put in a space, and that's what happens in BCLS, that you are truly challenged to think differently about your own leadership and you're exposed to what that looks like in different spaces from other districts, that's where that awakening happens.
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That conversation from that person shifted from what it was on the front end to the back end, which was I can do better.
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I'm I'm I am really good at what I do, but I can do better because what my lens of leadership was that got me into this role is continuing to evolve because leadership is continuing to evolve.
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The challenges we're facing are challenges we've never faced in public education.
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The the needs of supporting the new staff that are coming through, the next generation is always gonna look different than the previous generation.
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So, how are we adapting and growing?
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And that's the challenge that's put forth, and that's the expectation of what that looks like by going through these experiences.
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Well, Leslie, you you said that if I go through this program, I've got to look at the plank in my own eye.
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I don't like looking at the plank in my own eye.
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It's so much easier to look at the plank in your eye.
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Everybody's, yeah, everybody else's plank.
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But why is that important?
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Mine's just a spec.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Why is that important for the leadership of a district or school to go through that process with the members of their school and or leadership teams in the district?
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I mean, I think that's that's really the magic.
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It's one one of the many magics, but probably the one of the most profound magics because of exactly what Brian was just saying, the importance of the work and the business of school fundamentally is about learning.
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Right.
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And so when our children are young, everyone kind of accepts that they don't know.
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Although, you know, you talk to my fifth grader and he would tell you he does actually know um already.
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But um, but once we get to this level of leadership, I think some I think there is a paradigm in which we think there is a peak that that cannot be exceeded.
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And um, and so I I the other piece I think of the of the culture conundrum that we have is there's a bit of a compliance culture, right?
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And I wait to react um to whatever is introduced to me.
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And if you make me come to BCLS, then I'll come.
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Um but am I going to seek and drive my own learning?
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Um, I think that we sometimes fall short for a whole host of very understandable reasons, but then we do turn around and wonder why our students aren't seeking and directing and self-guiding their own learning, and we wonder and complain about that.
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Um but John Mehta talks about learning being symmetrical, and all he means by that is whatever we have experienced as adults will be the fundamental frame that we use to design learning experiences for students.
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And so if we aren't modeling that hunger and that self-direction in learning, then it's unlikely we're gonna create that kind of environment for our young people.
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And how does that come back around to the composition of the team?
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Well, if all you do is send your teachers and say, Y'all go ahead and you learn, and we principals, we APs, we district office leaders, we're gonna stay back.
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You're saying everything.
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Well, right?
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We say behavior is communication with our with our students, it's also communication um as leaders, probably the most powerful loud communication.
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So to see, and we have so many examples of teachers who have sat next to their superintendents, who they idolize, right?
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And they realize you're human just like me.
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Um you have questions just like me.
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You don't know everything just like me.
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But because you don't know everything, it somehow breaks open an opportunity for me to want to be better, just like Brian was saying.
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And so I think that's really critical.
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I don't mean to put Brian on the spot, but um, you know, Brian is an example, I think, of a central office leader who is always present, always visible, and always at the table.
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It's one of the reasons why we invited him to be here with us today.
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I was in Fulton County with a different scope of work and support uh around uh leadership building and capacity building for non-instructional staff.
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And it was their final moment to share their leader exhibition in a really vulnerable way about what they learned, what was hard, how their own leadership practice has changed.
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And Brian came to observe those leader exhibitions, so I'm putting you on the spot now to maybe speak a little bit about that, um, why you make it a priority to be there, but then also what came out of that afternoon for you.
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Sure, yeah, I'd love to comment on that because we are so proud of that partnership that we were able to engage in this past year.
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So, from the standpoint of context, our operations division uh has some outstanding leadership.
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And our chief of operations reached out and said, you know, I really want to grow the capacity of my people.
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Uh I want to know them better.
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I want us to be able to collaborate better.
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I want to grow my people, and I just don't necessarily feel I can do that alone.
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And I said, Well, what a great opportunity because that sounds a lot like what the Class A leadership program that Glissey offers, that I've experienced as well.
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Uh, what that could be, but most importantly, let's put you in touch and see as you're sharing what your needs are, are they able to maybe modify that to truly meet your needs?
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And the answer was 100% yes.
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Um, and so our operations division, which when you think about your School district out there, ask yourself how much leadership development you've really poured into your operations division.
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And probably your answer is well, they do the job and they get the buses there on time and the buildings are clean and they're good.
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But are they really being given opportunities to grow their leadership to continue to evolve it?
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And that was the focus of what we wanted to accomplish with our operations division.
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Similar to what was shared in our own podcast through Fulton County Schools, this is our focus is on all, uh, not just the growth of teachers and not just the growth of principals, but leadership is all.
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:48.720
And so being part of seeing the process, but most importantly, as Jenny was talking about, seeing the end product, which was all the participants really felt like they were giving their testimonial.
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.880
They were telling their journey and they were telling their stories.
00:22:53.039 --> 00:23:01.039
And it was so enlightening because they didn't just talk about their professional selves, they were talking about their personal selves.
00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:15.759
And they told their story of their journey of leadership, but they also told their story of how this particular year-long support grew them from a professional standpoint, from a personal standpoint, and then this is the part I love the most.
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:18.480
They talked about how they were going to use that next.
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:26.799
So it wasn't just looked at as a window of time of learning, it was application, which means they internalized it and they intend to use it to grow.
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:29.039
And I was so excited by that.
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:37.839
I know our chief of operations was so excited by that, that we are actually entering the process of a second year to ensure that that support continues to move it forward.
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:40.799
And I can't wait to see the end result of what that looks like next year.
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:41.519
Same.
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:50.079
And I'm gonna shout out our colleague Faith Castellano, who uh really helped to lead that work, and Jolie Hardin, who's one of our performance consultants.
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:59.119
But um, they just did an incredible job, I think, to Brian's point of we we tell people we're a bespoke organization, and so we really try to meet people where they are.
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:14.000
Yes, we have something called Class A, but that looks eight different ways depending on whether we're working with a large district like Fulton or a really small district um like Carroll County uh or Twiggs or um Pickens, where we're hoping to do this work in the future.
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:15.519
You mentioned Jolie Harden.
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.000
Uh, members may have the I know that name.
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:23.440
She's the co-executive director of the elementary school principals affiliate.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:25.599
All right, Brian, let's let's look at this.
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:30.799
What was hard about what Glissey was asking of you and your team?
00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:42.720
Um when it comes to what what the hard ask was, I think in any space it's hard for people to be introspective.
00:24:43.200 --> 00:25:01.200
Um it's hard, as we mentioned earlier, when you are a leader that has had a career long of incredible success and accolades and being told how amazing you are your whole journey, it's hard for people to say, I haven't reached the finish line.
00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:08.799
It's hard for them, as Leslie's said, uh people who feel like they are at the apex of their leadership journey.
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:14.799
It's hard to help people walk into that space of saying, but I'm not there yet.
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:21.279
And I think that that's been the challenge in any of uh leadership development space.
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:47.519
But the rewards of getting people past that space are not just rewards that are a yield for our district, the rewards are for the kids that they are now going to impact that can then say, I thought I had I thought I had it all figured out, but now I'm demonstrating to you that I've adopted a growth mindset, and now my expectation is that I'm gonna model that for you as we want leaders to do.
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:48.079
That's right.
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:55.039
And now I'm gonna not only model it for you, but I'm gonna support you and how to get there in the same way that Glissey supported me and how I got there.
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:56.160
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:06.079
Leslie mentioned that sometimes you you go and you you go back home, and there may be a uh a desire to revert back to the way things were.
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:14.079
Was there ever a time for whether you as the leader or your team that you found yourselves reverting back and how did you get back on course?
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:23.519
And uh maybe was there a time or a moment where you had to let go of your ego and just be publicly honest about where you and your leadership team were.
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:24.880
So yeah.
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:27.200
Let's get invulnerable here.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:29.440
Let's go be real about that.
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:33.519
So I'll go from the principal perspective first, since I've walked this journey as principal.
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:55.039
So we went to BCLS, we participated in the process, we had these great designs of the things that we wanted to do differently after we really dug deep into what we identified as our problem of practice, and then we came home and the school year was about to begin, and then anything different that the district was going to do became our focus because we had to pivot to something.
00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:00.799
We had to make adjustments, we had to change something that we had originally planned to do before we left for the summer.
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:02.880
And so there's a challenge in that, right?
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:11.119
So that's where that final piece of how are you making commitments about what's next.
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:24.799
So it's not just about what you what you did in the space of learning and what you did in the space of what your leadership development looked like, but you walk away with commitment statements and you are empowered by the people around you.
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:28.480
So that's why it's important that you're not just attending something like this individually.
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:35.759
You are held accountable by the folks that you went to this experience with that are responsible for that.
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:40.640
So it's not your district coming in and saying, Well, you said you were going to do this, are you actually doing it?
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:48.880
It's actually the accountability measures that are happening organically because the people in the space committed not just to the thing, but they committed to one another.
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:55.680
And when you commit to others, others have the ability to hold you accountable as well as your own accountability measure.
00:27:55.920 --> 00:28:12.400
So it's not just a supervisor coming in from the space of positionality, it's the fact that people made commitments because they dug deep into the work, they got to know each other, they connected in a way that is deeper than just the work.
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:12.640
Yeah.
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:19.680
But I really want to piggyback on that and go back to your original question, Ben, around team composition, because that is so critical.
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:30.960
It's critical to have the people who have the authority because uh uh to to to maintain that sense of connectivity and unity within that team.
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:44.640
And um I think that that some folks over the years have thought, hey, we've had several folks come through this experience, let's send teachers, right, by themselves or with an AP.
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:47.680
And they get the the process is the process.
00:28:47.920 --> 00:29:04.559
So people come back and they feel ready, they feel empowered, they are sharp, they are excited, they are motivated, and they come back though to folks who didn't go through the experience with them, and now they feel in even more frustrated than they were to begin with, right?
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:07.920
Um they feel ready and sharp, but with nowhere to go.
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:12.720
And I think that's uh a really that's that's like the opposite of a retention practice.
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:30.640
Whereas the things that Brian was talking about earlier, especially with class A, one of the things we've heard from so many Class A participants is have well, for one, we've seen increases in retention in our classified staff, which is in and of itself a really important um factor, but they name USAMI.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:57.680
District, thank you for providing this support, for telling me that I'm worth it, and my role in the experience of students every day, whether it be right on the bus or at the cafeteria counter or the custodial in the halls, um, all of those are daymakers for students, and to to invest in them yields that retention result because it's that culture of you matter.
00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:03.359
Everyone matters, students, uh classified staff, instructional staff, everyone.
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:04.559
Perfect.
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:06.480
Well, Brian, talk to us a little bit.
00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:14.160
We've talked about the culture, we've talked about the climate a little bit, but there's somebody watching right now and goes, Well, I want to hear about the student outcome.
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:32.240
So talk to us a little bit about maybe what you saw going through this in your personal experience and with your school that you attribute to the success of some student outcomes and student achievement that you can um confidently direct right back to your involvement with Glissey.
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:33.359
Sure.
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:37.359
So I I think about the middle schools that attended last year.
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:50.799
Actually, I think about an elementary school or a high school that attended two years ago that has continued to grow the practices and how they've also continued to get support through Glissey in an advisory role.
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:57.200
And I think about that was a school that wouldn't be one of those schools that you're like, man, we need to do some work there.
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:00.480
This is one of the highest achieving high schools in the state.
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:08.000
And they had the humility and the understanding to say, but we can do better by kids.
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:11.359
Because what do we use as our metrics that determines a high achieving school?
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:14.240
We look at outcomes on an assessment.
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:19.920
But are we really looking at how we're building the learning experience for our kids?
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:36.559
So they looked beyond the typical outcomes, they look beyond the SAT scores, which were already outstanding, that they continue to see growth in, they look beyond the milestone scores, and they actually looked at what does culture look like from the standpoint of what our kids are telling us, engagement looks like.
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:42.240
What are they telling us about their feeling of joy of coming to school, about their belief in learning?
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:46.000
And that was what they identified as what they wanted to get to.
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:50.960
That was their core that they could have easily never looked at because everybody said, You're so good.
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:54.720
But they wanted to do better and they have done better.
00:31:54.880 --> 00:32:06.640
So as they've built the things that they've built at their school to grow the student experience, to grow the voice of the students, to actually say, What's the current state of culture with our kids?
00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:11.920
They've actually seen a significant decrease in mental health issues at their school.
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:16.640
They've seen a significant increase in attendance at their school.
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:20.640
The things that we don't always look at when we say a school is successful or not.
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:27.920
So I think that story, it's it's easy to sit in a space where you can say, Well, that school's doing great.
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:29.920
But are the kids doing great?
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:30.400
Yeah.
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:35.839
And that's what we're really that should be the focus of every one of our conversations.
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:49.119
I think Leslie just said you just did a commercial for her, but what's speaking of Leslie, I want to brag because in in our first episode, she did not do a very good job of keeping her cell phone.
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:50.640
I knew this is a good one.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:54.319
I'm a lobby.
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:59.279
And she has really stepped up this episode in her fine.
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:01.200
I mean, it's unbelievable.
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:02.559
Brian noticed her.
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:04.640
What a moment of truth.
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:06.960
We can all keep learning.
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:18.079
So, Brian, tell us uh tell our listeners maybe one thing that you've taken away from Glissey that you still use even in your current leadership today.
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:19.599
Oh, that's an easy one.
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:35.920
So that would be really thinking deeply about how you're identifying your problems of practice and understanding that the process that you go through is a process that you can continue to apply in any situation where you're identifying the problem of practice.
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:46.880
So it's not just a let's find out about how to dig deeper into this one thing and then find a solution for this one thing and then commit to it for this one thing.
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:53.759
You learn the process that then you are taking back and you're applying to all the things.
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:59.119
So it's not an isolation learning experience that's solving for just an issue.
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:05.359
It's applicable and you will continue to carry it with you, and I've continued to carry it with me in my leadership space.
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:06.400
Perfect.
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:11.440
Well, why don't we end up with maybe any last comments, Jenny or Leslie, that you have?
00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:21.039
I'm gonna brag on Brian one more time and just say uh I have the opportunity to travel all around the state and spend time with central office leaders quite often in my role.
00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:32.000
And one tell for me that somebody is already on the journey that they're on is that they don't say, we need help rolling out, or we just need to get by and about.
00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:57.199
And whenever I hear Brian talk about what they're working on in Fulton, it's always about what we're building together, what we're working on together, and that mindset about we're actually collectively working on our problems of practice and we're identifying what the opportunities are to grow as an intact unit, as a leadership team, versus we're gonna think about what our priorities are and make sure we roll them out and make sure we go get buy-in from.
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:04.960
Um, it really is a mindset, and so I I would just encourage all of our listeners to think about um as their leading change.
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:13.280
Um, in what ways are you looking to roll it out or to get buy-in versus in what ways are you thinking about building cultures of learning and and um sort of shared problem solving together?
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:13.519
Yeah.
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:19.519
It's always we and our listen.
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:28.000
Listen, you know, when when I think can be topped, you don't have to add words, I think, between Jenny and Brian.
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:30.159
The mic has been dropped multiple times.
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:34.239
Well, thank you all for coming, doing another episode with us.
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:36.000
Thank you, Brian, for joining us.
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:36.480
Thank you.
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:40.960
I think we're gonna have one more uh episode with Glissey in the future.
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:42.159
So I hope you enjoy this.
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:49.199
And remember, if you've got any questions or you would like any information, you can reach out to us here at Gill and we can put you in contact.
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:59.760
But you can reach out directly to Jenny and Leslie, and they will help you find out all the resources, information that you need if you want to continue this journey for your school andor district.
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:02.320
Thank you for joining us for this week's episode.
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:03.199
Thank you.
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:04.239
Thank you.