Chorus:
00:00:00
Begin there —
Introduction Voiceover:
00:00:02
You are listening to Season Four
Chorus:
00:00:05
Begin there —
Introduction Voiceover:
00:00:06
of Future Ecologies.
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:09
Welcome back. Mendel here. And before we get
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:13
started, I just wanted to say thanks for your patience. It's
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:17
been quite a year, and it means a lot to have you with us. This
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:23
is the last episode of our fourth season. So it's time that
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:28
we listen to you, for a change. We'd love to get to know you
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:32
better, and find out what you'd like to hear in Season Five.
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:36
We've already got a number of stories in progress, but your
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:39
input will help shape how we tell them. So please fill out
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our brief listener survey. We'd love to hear from you. Find a
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link to that survey in the show notes, or click the banner at
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futureecologies.net.
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After this episode, our feed will mostly go quiet again for a
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few months, while we're cooking away in the background. To do
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Okay, now on to this episode. What you're about to hear comes
Mendel Skulski:
00:01:49
from a gathering on Klahoose, Tla’amin, and Homalco territory,
Mendel Skulski:
00:01:53
specifically Cortes island, in the spring of 2022. It was a
Mendel Skulski:
00:01:59
symposium of artists and scholars of all description,
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:02
assembled to reflect on, discuss, and share their
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:06
practice. Namely, that at an intersection referred to as
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:11
Geopoetics.
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:14
The word poem comes to us from the Greek "poiein", meaning to
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:18
make or create, and which would also be borrowed into the word
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:23
sympoiesis. Quoting from Donna Haraway, "Sympoiesis is a simple
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:29
word. It means making with. Nothing really makes itself.
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:34
Nothing is really autopoietic, or self organizing" end quote.
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:40
In that spirit, what follows is not a perfectly condensed
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:44
version of those events, nor is it attempting to be. Instead,
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:49
these many voices have been recontextualized and collaged
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:53
from where I sit — here as an uninvited guest on the unceded
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:57
and shared ancestral territory of the Musqueam, Squamish, and
Mendel Skulski:
00:03:01
Tsleil-waututh peoples — into a stream of consciousness on
Mendel Skulski:
00:03:05
language artmaking and more than human interconnection.
Mendel Skulski:
00:03:11
The sound isn't perfect, and sometimes you can hear a baby in
Mendel Skulski:
00:03:15
the room. But hey, that's life.
Mendel Skulski:
00:03:20
Here we go.
Michael Datura:
00:03:21
In the field of environmental education,
Michael Datura:
00:03:23
anthropomorphism — the charge of anthropomorphism is sort of a
Michael Datura:
00:03:28
dirty word. It's considered a logical fallacy. So that it's a
Michael Datura:
00:03:31
formal critique so that even the content of whatever comes is
Michael Datura:
00:03:34
sort of rendered false. If so, what if you just talk about your
Michael Datura:
00:03:39
experience with that, and anthropomorphizing the ocean,
Michael Datura:
00:03:43
but also ecologizing the body, and how you contend with that?
Astrida Neimanis:
00:03:47
Yeah that's a great question. And it's a funny
Astrida Neimanis:
00:03:50
talking to a room of a lot of poets and artists, as though
Astrida Neimanis:
00:03:54
qualities like this could not be transferred across species, but
Astrida Neimanis:
00:03:58
I think that my short answer to that leveling of that charge of
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:02
anthropomorphism is always like, why do we think humans felt
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:08
those things first, or had those things first? We learn our
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:12
feelings, I think, from the world around us, we learn
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:16
sensation, we learn inter-relationality, we learn
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:20
communication, we learn language, from all of these
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:23
things. So then to say, you know, to hold all of that stuff
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:26
close to us and say, "No, this belongs to humans. And it's
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:29
ethically wrong to consider that another kind of being would be
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:35
tired or be angry or be upset or need a hug" is I think, even
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:40
more anthropocentric in a way — because it like it hogs... it
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:45
hogs all of those great words and feelings and sensations as
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:48
though they just belong here. You know, where did we get them
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:51
from?
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:04:52
Something to me that I find really helpful
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:04:54
recently, particularly been thinking a lot about, because
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:04:56
I've been working with birdsong for a while. And something that
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:04:59
recording gives you access to — that just listening without
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:03
recording can't — is your ability to slow things down and
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:07
speed things up. There's this artists, Marcus Coates in the
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:10
UK, who did this project called Dawn Chorus, where he, he slowed
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:13
down birdsong, specific birds, by 20 times and got different
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:17
people to learn the song 20 times slower, and then filmed
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:21
them singing it 20 times, and then sped them up 20 times —
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:26
their breath, their head movements, they become bird in
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:29
this really uncanny way. And it just makes this really strong
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:33
point about this time, this kind of temporal barrier between us
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:36
and some other living organisms that exist on a different
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:38
timeframe. And once you can slow down or speed things up, you can
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:43
somewhat close that gap, and kind of meet in this weird,
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:47
uncanny way.
Rex Weyler:
00:05:50
It's not so much a statement as a question — what
Rex Weyler:
00:05:53
is the language of ecology? And there's an issue here with the
Rex Weyler:
00:05:57
word "environment" versus "ecology". People think of the
Rex Weyler:
00:06:00
environment is something that's out there, and we're gonna fix
Rex Weyler:
00:06:03
it or we need it or something like that. Ecology is something
Rex Weyler:
00:06:08
we're inside of. So part of what I've experienced in the ecology
Rex Weyler:
00:06:14
movement over 50 years, is that we just continually get hung up
Rex Weyler:
00:06:20
on language. And that I've kind of felt like I've been searching
Rex Weyler:
00:06:24
my whole life for a language that actually speaks ecology,
Rex Weyler:
00:06:29
and speaks of this undivided whole of which everything is a
Rex Weyler:
00:06:35
part.
Rex Weyler:
00:06:37
All divisions are arbitrary. We cut up the world to describe it.
Rex Weyler:
00:06:43
And someone might say, "Well, we know the difference between a
Rex Weyler:
00:06:48
rocket tree we know the difference between a tree in the
Rex Weyler:
00:06:52
atmosphere." Do we? We talk about a tree, the soil, and the
Rex Weyler:
00:06:57
atmosphere, but none of those three things (tree, soil, or
Rex Weyler:
00:07:00
atmosphere — or fungi) exist independently in the others. So
Rex Weyler:
00:07:06
when we speak of them, were approximating. Language is
Rex Weyler:
00:07:13
necessary… or useful, let's say. Language is useful so that we
Rex Weyler:
00:07:18
can just talk to each other. And we can talk to each other about
Rex Weyler:
00:07:21
the tree and the soil and the atmosphere, when we know that
Rex Weyler:
00:07:24
none of those things exist independently.
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:26
The real subject here is really how the
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:30
Earth means. I just take for granted that the Earth means. It
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:34
is so obvious to me that it has never occurred to me that it
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:37
needed explaining. But I hear a lot of people say that they are
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:42
engaged in making meaning, as if there weren't any until they
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:46
made some. I just don't get it.
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:53
The ground we walked on to get here, the stones that got stuck
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:57
in the soles of my shoes, and the other ones that are big
Robert Bringhurst:
00:08:02
enough to stay in their places, and the trees, and all the
Robert Bringhurst:
00:08:06
little plants underneath the trees, and all the little things
Robert Bringhurst:
00:08:10
way up in the trees — they are all meaning incarnate. This
Robert Bringhurst:
00:08:15
building is not meaningless either, but it ain't much
Robert Bringhurst:
00:08:18
compared to what's out there. And we are meaning incarnate
Robert Bringhurst:
00:08:24
too.
Jan Zwicky:
00:08:27
You and the world are real together. You're built
Jan Zwicky:
00:08:32
so that you can understand one another.
David Abram:
00:08:35
To our animal flesh, to our creaturely senses,
David Abram:
00:08:41
each thing I encounter is always withholding parts of itself
David Abram:
00:08:47
within itself. And it also is hiding other things behind
David Abram:
00:08:52
itself.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:08:52
Their features refuse to cohere into
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:08:54
recognizable form.
David Abram:
00:08:56
Nothing is ever encountered, all explicit, open,
David Abram:
00:09:02
total. For me, that's not a source of frustration, it's a
David Abram:
00:09:05
source of delight. It's just the signal that I —
Stephen Collis:
00:09:09
Anima, animal, animate
David Abram:
00:09:12
— in my own animal body, am inside something much
David Abram:
00:09:16
bigger than me, in which things dance and play with one another,
David Abram:
00:09:23
and beckon to me and others withdraw from my attention
David Abram:
00:09:27
entirely and hide off.
Jan Zwicky:
00:09:29
Explicit — what that word means is unfolded,
Jan Zwicky:
00:09:32
everything has been unfolded. Well, often what that means is
Jan Zwicky:
00:09:37
to dissect something, or to flay it, to peel it, to expose it. A
Jan Zwicky:
00:09:45
great deal of biological life must remain implicit, or it's
Jan Zwicky:
00:09:50
dead.
David Abram:
00:09:52
And of course, a way to gain the bare beginnings
David Abram:
00:09:57
of an access to the interior of something (without flaying it),
David Abram:
00:10:03
is to ask and to enter into conversation.
Jan Zwicky:
00:10:08
Make eye contact
Vanessa Richards and Chorus:
00:10:16
Listen. Let your water be your guide.
Vanessa Richards and Chorus:
00:10:28
Let the water decide. Lose yourself in the meantime.
Vanessa Richards and Chorus:
00:10:35
Listen.
Eric Magrane:
00:10:39
How the world is organized is a function of
Eric Magrane:
00:10:42
belief. For example, here are just a few ways that climate
Eric Magrane:
00:10:46
change is understood or portrayed. As an apocalyptic
Eric Magrane:
00:10:51
threat to humanity, as a national security issue, as an
Eric Magrane:
00:10:57
engineering problem, as a social and environmental justice issue,
Eric Magrane:
00:11:04
as a hoax, as a business opportunity, as a crisis of
Eric Magrane:
00:11:10
capitalism, patriarchy, settler colonialism, racism and or
Eric Magrane:
00:11:16
neoliberalism, or as an opportunity for radical
Eric Magrane:
00:11:21
transformation.
Eric Magrane:
00:11:23
How climate change is framed then has reverberations for how
Eric Magrane:
00:11:27
it is approached or addressed or ignored. These framings also
Eric Magrane:
00:11:33
often map onto deeper ideologies about human-environment
Eric Magrane:
00:11:37
relationship, expressed through social, political, economic and
Eric Magrane:
00:11:41
land systems. When I think about the climate crisis from a
Eric Magrane:
00:11:46
geopolitical standpoint, climate change is about time and
Eric Magrane:
00:11:50
materiality. Time — the scales of time in which we must think
Eric Magrane:
00:11:55
to understand climate. Materiality — minerals, fossils,
Eric Magrane:
00:12:01
plastic bags, the decayed remains of marine life powering
Eric Magrane:
00:12:05
our machines. In short, organizations of matter.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:12
Scale asks us to measure phenomena in terms of
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:15
close or far, small or big, more significant or less. And we
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:19
readily think of scale in terms of things like time or duration,
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:23
minutes, years, eons. Or in terms of size or space — micro,
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:28
macro, local, global. It follows that a scale of mattering might
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:33
map onto these other scales according to things like
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:36
intensity and heft, or sheer numbers. "We need to scale our
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:41
actions up", we say. "Just a drop in the ocean" is a figure
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:46
of speech for a reason, after all. But despite our desire for
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:52
scale to temper the crass leveling effect of analogy, we
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:57
also recognize another kind of brutality creeping into these
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:00
scalar logics. Where Euclidean geometries assemble, to measure
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:06
and mark and value, and with these metrics comes fungibility
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:12
of each constituent part.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:15
This is what anthropologist Anna Tsing might call the malevolent
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:18
hegemony of precision nesting — an expansionist logic whereby
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:25
scaling up means that any precisely measurable elements
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:29
can be multiplied without consequence. So here, instead of
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:34
the violence of analogy or equivalence, we face the
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:37
violence of quantification and reduction and exchangeability.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:42
And neither gives us the tools we need for the kind of scaling
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:45
up that we seek.
Robert Bringhurst:
00:13:47
Many things in the world are a matter of
Robert Bringhurst:
00:13:51
scale. Sandhill Cranes are creatures whose song is within
Robert Bringhurst:
00:13:59
our hearing range, and whose bodies are large enough, and
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:04
whose gestures are large enough that we can see them. And so if
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:12
you are lucky enough to hear the Sandhill Cranes and watch them
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:17
dance, you will be changed forever by this experience. But
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:24
another thing that ought to happen is that it ought to occur
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:27
to you that just because you can see the Sandhill Cranes dance
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:31
doesn't mean that nothing else dances. What about the bacteria?
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:36
What about the deer mites? What about the lichens? What about
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:39
the other things that are outside your range somehow — the
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:44
things whose voices are too high or too low in pitch for your
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:50
ears; the things that are too small or too large for you to
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:54
see. The Earth, for example.
Hari Alluri:
00:14:57
I mean, we dance inside ourselves. Even when
Hari Alluri:
00:15:01
we're still.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:15:11
Nature and its description into image —
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:15:13
whether photo, drawing, or painting en plein air — has long
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:15:16
been conscripted into the propagation of a historical myth
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:15:19
— The untouched and glorious Earth, primed and waiting for
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:15:23
your eyes, and yours alone, to appreciate to capture an image
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:15:26
of your own.
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:28
A name on a map, like a contour line or a
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:31
smudge of green or squiggle of blue, can never tell you all you
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:35
want or need to know.
Eric Magrane:
00:15:42
One — Note your elevation above sea level. What
Eric Magrane:
00:15:47
poems occur here?
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:49
What is is what has happened, Hegel says.
David Abram:
00:15:53
Who cares what Hegel says?!
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:56
And what has happened
David Abram:
00:15:57
What happens is what is.
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:58
is what is
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:58
What is
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:59
spread out through time
Jan Zwicky:
00:16:00
is what is timeless caught in time.
Vanessa Richards and Chorus:
00:16:13
[Magic Number Song]
Nadia Chaney:
00:16:49
But what stuck with me was the walk, not the
Nadia Chaney:
00:16:51
song. I don't remember the song. But the specific walk that I was
Nadia Chaney:
00:16:55
doing. So then I started playing with this walk all over town.
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:00
And I had the weirdest thing happen, which was this temporal
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:03
effect. Where I started being — the slower I walked, the sooner
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:08
I would get places.
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:12
I was working in a restaurant. And I had my boss start timing
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:15
it until he got super angry. And he was — he stopped. He refused
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:23
to do it anymore. Like he really screamed it out. He was really
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:26
angry, because it was disturbing at a really deep level to his
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:32
sense of... his sense of the way things are.
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:36
And the question that I had was "is time incarcerated?" I read
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:43
and I read and I was like, ah... I can't actually ask this
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:46
question before I ask this other question, "How can we be more
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:49
intimate with time?" I need to first encounter time before I
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:54
start asking is it incarcerated, because there's all these
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:57
presumptions about what is it... and I was doing the NGO thing
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:02
unconsciously — already making the other the object, and then
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:05
trying to fix it and solve it. So luckily, I caught that before
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:09
I started the project and said, "Okay, how can we be more
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:14
intimate with time?" And then the second question, "is time
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:18
incarcerated? And if so, how can we help to liberate it?"
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:22
So these zoom windows I know, I know, it can be offensive to be
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:25
like... I heard David this morning, right, the tone like
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:29
"not on Zoom." But it was different! People would sleep,
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:33
right? There were people from all over the world. So as that
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:36
entire almost like 15 hour period will go by, we'd watch
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:40
the sun, we'd watch the shadows, you'd hear the birds, you'd see
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:43
the dawn. People would fall asleep, and they'd leave the
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:46
sound on, and the video on, and sleeping! Right? That's the...
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:52
it was both the informality and the safety, but also the study
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:55
of time.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:18:57
We are now all tumbling in the circulations of
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:00
planetary exhaustion, where tiredness is both different and
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:05
shared. Much has been made of our 24/7 neon-lit late
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:10
capitalist cultures, the vertigo-inducing speed of the
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:14
Sixth Extinction, the spectacularly swift and tireless
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:17
resurgence of white supremacy and eco fascism, alongside the
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:22
never resting rising heat of the noonday sun. But we have thought
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:26
perhaps less about what comes after and with the end of this
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:30
world, the insomniac one — our bodies see no longer hack it. We
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:35
fall down, fall apart, exhausted. We need to sleep.
Nadia Chaney:
00:19:40
And that happened all the time. It was like we
Nadia Chaney:
00:19:45
were always right on time.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:47
This is multispecies sympoiesis at work,
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:50
in the name of flourishing. Although we often speak of sleep
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:55
in terms of self care, paying attention to the ocean and its
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:59
communities reminds us that even sleeping — the most inward
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:05
oriented and perhaps solipsistic of acts — is actually about
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:09
mutual care.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:11
Some of the planet's most significant deforestation events
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:15
have in fact occurred underwater. Off the east coast
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:19
of Tasmania, 95% of the giant kelp forests that once dominated
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:23
these seas have disappeared in the last few decades. In Western
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:27
Australia, a particularly hot summer between 2010 and 2013
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:32
wiped out 100 kilometers of kelp forests. These forests are not
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:37
only magnificent in and for themselves, but have been vital
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:41
for the formation of habitat on reefs around temperate
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:44
Australia. They are places for hundreds of other species of
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:49
plants and animals to rest.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:20:54
A desire for order is the most dangerous
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:20:56
dream that is held by the majority of North American
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:20:58
citizens. Technically, even the fascists dream at night. It is
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:21:04
our obligation to dream differently.
Eric Magrane:
00:21:08
Two — Map the quarter mile radius around your
Eric Magrane:
00:21:12
home in a poem.
Stephen Collis:
00:21:14
Everything's going to be... alright.
Stephen Collis:
00:21:17
Everything's going to be... destroyed.
Kaitlyn Purcell:
00:21:21
The world is going to end. Why is the world
Kaitlyn Purcell:
00:21:25
always fucking ending?
Khari McClelland:
00:21:28
I dunno how to say this, but I feel like
Khari McClelland:
00:21:29
sometimes... I've had to observe a lot of like human life loss
Khari McClelland:
00:21:37
and precarity, so I have a different perspective sometimes
Khari McClelland:
00:21:41
about... I don't know, I feel like this is a weird thing to
Khari McClelland:
00:21:48
say, but I feel like a lot of you might be really sad because,
Khari McClelland:
00:21:53
like, things are really fucked up right now.
Khari McClelland:
00:21:57
And I guess what I'm going to say to you is that... it's been
Khari McClelland:
00:22:03
fucked up for a while. And I just like I kind of live with
Khari McClelland:
00:22:11
that in my gut sometimes.
Khari McClelland:
00:22:14
Just because, you know, for some, for some of us, it's been
Khari McClelland:
00:22:17
hundreds of years of incredible terror. And, you know, it's a
Khari McClelland:
00:22:24
great luxury to feel in this moment like something's wrong.
Khari McClelland:
00:22:28
It's good to be agitated — to want to make things be
Khari McClelland:
00:22:32
different. When we start to become a little too comfortable
Khari McClelland:
00:22:36
with things being out of sort being unjust that's where if it
Khari McClelland:
00:22:41
feels like it's a problem. It's like that since the agitation is
Khari McClelland:
00:22:45
actually some kind of good fuel, I think.
Khari McClelland:
00:22:48
[Song of the Agitators fades in]
Rita Wong:
00:22:50
I struggle between being instrumental in wanting
Rita Wong:
00:22:53
this outcome, and also just being unconditional that
Rita Wong:
00:22:56
whatever happens we still need to do what we can. So it is
Rita Wong:
00:23:00
late, but it is not too late.
Khari McClelland:
00:23:14
Well here we are today, still pushing for
Khari McClelland:
00:23:19
equal pay. And these treaty rights don't hold. Their shiny
Khari McClelland:
00:23:29
like the Judas gold. Stain of blood still remains, a mother's
Khari McClelland:
00:23:39
only son slain. And our youth are crying out for more,
Khari McClelland:
00:23:49
continually being ignored. On that day, we will be family
Khari McClelland:
00:24:02
equal born and free. Dawn will come, night will cease. We'll
Khari McClelland:
00:24:13
rejoice, mind at ease. For that day we'll work and wait. That's
Khari McClelland:
00:24:24
when we'll cease to agitate.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:24:32
So every morning, the Earth turns and day
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:24:34
breaks over the horizon. And every night we spin away
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:24:37
eclipsed by the planet's own great shadow, facing outward and
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:24:41
away from the center of our solar system until we're back in
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:24:44
the favor of the light. It's not so difficult to miss the sunset.
Eric Magrane:
00:24:53
Draw a line. On one side of the line note
Eric Magrane:
00:24:56
observations. On the other side. write responses to those
Eric Magrane:
00:25:01
observations. Which is which?
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:06
I learned to rinse my hands with vinegar
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:07
before lifting away the thin new mothers that formed on top of
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:11
the brewed kombucha every two weeks. To tell mold from age
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:15
spots, and to let go — to forgive myself for letting
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:19
things turn too sour. The process of fermentation presents
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:24
itself almost too easily as a metaphor. The way time
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:28
transforms something bitter into something full of goodness; how
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:32
the mother turns raw materials into something entirely new
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:36
while simultaneously replicating itself. Perhaps we can follow in
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:40
the footsteps of Susan Sontag's argument in Illness as Metaphor
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:44
in which she insists that, quote, "Illness is not a
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:47
metaphor." And that "The most truthful way of regarding
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:51
illness, and the healthiest way of being ill, is one most
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:54
purified of, most resistant to metaphoric thinking." end quote.
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:01
Likewise, perhaps the most truthful, or even the healthiest
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:04
way of understanding fermentation is as it is —
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:08
devoid of metaphor. Rejecting metaphor requires extending our
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:13
feeling, stretching our empathy towards understanding something,
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:17
not based on its use in relation to human comprehension, but
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:21
towards attempting to understand it purely for what it is. To
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:29
understand fermentation as not only a metaphor — because of
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:32
course it can exist both to us as metaphoric and actual — is to
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:36
understand it as a naturally occurring process with which
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:39
humans are simply collaborators. And in understanding this, we
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:43
can realize that this form of non-human life, this collection
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:47
of symbiotic bacteria and yeast, is as vital a form of life as
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:51
our own existence in the world.
Eric Magrane:
00:26:53
Go with your gut, and repeat after me. I am mostly
Eric Magrane:
00:27:02
microbial flora. Great. How does that feel?
Rex Weyler:
00:27:11
When do those molecules of apple become
Rex Weyler:
00:27:13
molecules of me? At what point? For me, I start to realize,
Rex Weyler:
00:27:18
well, you don't need to know that because it's just this
Rex Weyler:
00:27:22
constant flow. And that's part of the ecological consciousness
Rex Weyler:
00:27:27
as well — that we're not independent, isolated beings.
Rex Weyler:
00:27:32
And even though we have this skin, and so forth, that nothing
Rex Weyler:
00:27:36
about us survives or lives without this constant flow of
Rex Weyler:
00:27:40
energy, food, nutrients, and all of this. From an ecological
Rex Weyler:
00:27:44
point of view, there are no isolated things, and everything
Rex Weyler:
00:27:48
is a process. And everything is a process. So it's an
Rex Weyler:
00:27:51
interesting question, but maybe not that relevant to ask "when
Rex Weyler:
00:27:54
does the apple become me?" Because it was me before, and
Rex Weyler:
00:27:58
then me after, and it doesn't matter.
Rex Weyler:
00:28:02
And, you know, this sort of ties into this, this whole idea of
Rex Weyler:
00:28:06
this expanded self. In human society, there have been many
Rex Weyler:
00:28:11
movements, which have proposed that we, that we expand the idea
Rex Weyler:
00:28:18
of self beyond the skin. So we have these social imperatives.
Rex Weyler:
00:28:27
And there's a social self. And we're one with our brothers and
Rex Weyler:
00:28:30
sisters all over the world. And we're a family. We've certainly
Rex Weyler:
00:28:35
bicker like one. But this expand itself doesn't stop with the
Rex Weyler:
00:28:40
human family, does it? And it doesn't even stop with all
Rex Weyler:
00:28:44
sentient beings. Because it's the soil and it's the rock and
Rex Weyler:
00:28:49
it's the earth and it's the atmosphere. Intellectually, we
Rex Weyler:
00:28:52
can arrive there. But emotionally and
Rex Weyler:
00:28:57
inter-relationship-wise, it's very difficult because we keep
Rex Weyler:
00:29:00
falling back into our language — which makes things out of all
Rex Weyler:
00:29:06
this process.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:08
Bodies are not self-sufficient, zipped up in
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:11
some diverse suit of skin. If imagining the sea as a body,
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:16
however anthropomorphized, can help us understand its fatigue.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:21
What might it mean for us to imagine ourselves our human
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:25
bodies of water as more oceanic? What if we understood ourselves
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:30
to as whole ecologies made up of component bodies and supporting
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:34
systems? What if the borders of our sovereign selves were to be
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:39
a bit dissolved?
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:41
This is not only an ontological question of what a body is, or
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:45
even what a body can do. It's a question of care. While our
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:50
exhaustion can teach us something about the uneven
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:53
distribution of sleeplessness as an index of other inequalities,
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:58
it can also encourage us to consider multispecies ecologies
Astrida Neimanis:
00:30:02
of sleeplessness, and what it will take to help each other get
Astrida Neimanis:
00:30:06
some rest. We need each other. We are nothing without each
Astrida Neimanis:
00:30:11
other. Opening to share vulnerability, relying on each
Astrida Neimanis:
00:30:16
other, we might help hold each others fatigue.
Vicky:
00:30:19
each others
David Abram:
00:30:26
Then the long range migrations of certain creatures
David Abram:
00:30:30
can only be a conundrum; a puzzle we'll try to solve by
David Abram:
00:30:34
continually compounding the various internal mechanisms that
David Abram:
00:30:38
might somehow in combination grant the creature the power to
David Abram:
00:30:41
grapple its way across the world. But instead of
David Abram:
00:30:44
hypothesizing more metaphorical gadgets, adding further
David Abram:
00:30:49
accessories to a Crane's or a Salmon's internal array of
David Abram:
00:30:53
tools, what if we were to allow that the animals migratory skill
David Abram:
00:30:57
arises from a felt rapport between its body and the
David Abram:
00:31:01
breathing earth?
David Abram:
00:31:08
That a Crane's 3000 kilometer journey across the span of a
David Abram:
00:31:12
continent is propelled by a felt unison between its flexing
David Abram:
00:31:17
muscles and the sensitive flesh of this planet — this huge
David Abram:
00:31:22
curved expanse, roiling with air currents, and rippling with
David Abram:
00:31:27
electromagnetic pulses. And so is enacted as much by Earth's
David Abram:
00:31:32
vitality as by the bird that flies within it. What if this
David Abram:
00:31:38
dynamic alliance between an animal and the animate orb that
David Abram:
00:31:43
gives it breath — What... what is this? What seasonal tensions
David Abram:
00:31:49
and relaxations in the atmosphere? What subtle torsions
David Abram:
00:31:53
in the geosphere help to draw half a million Cranes so
David Abram:
00:31:57
precisely across the continent? What rolling succession or
David Abram:
00:32:01
sequence of blossomings helps summon these millions of
David Abram:
00:32:05
Butterflies across the belly of the land? What alterations in
David Abram:
00:32:09
the olfactory medium? What bursts of solar exuberance
David Abram:
00:32:13
through the magnetosphere? What attractions and repulsions? For
David Abram:
00:32:17
surely, really, and truly, these migratory folks are not taking
David Abram:
00:32:21
readings from technical instruments, or mathematically
David Abram:
00:32:25
calculating angles. They are riding waves of sensation,
David Abram:
00:32:30
responding attentively to allurements and gestures in the
David Abram:
00:32:34
topological manifold; reverberating subtle expressions
David Abram:
00:32:38
that reach them from afar. These beings are dancing, not with
David Abram:
00:32:42
themselves, but with the animate rondure of the Earth. Their
David Abram:
00:32:47
wider flesh, meeting — between oneself, one's creaturely body,
David Abram:
00:32:54
and the vast body of the land.
David Abram:
00:32:59
So perhaps it'd be useful to consider the large collective
David Abram:
00:33:03
migrations of various creatures as active expressions of the
David Abram:
00:33:07
Earth itself — to consider them as slow gestures of a living
David Abram:
00:33:13
geology, improvisational experiments that gradually
David Abram:
00:33:16
stabilized into habits, now necessary to the ongoing
David Abram:
00:33:20
metabolism of the sphere. For truly, are not these cyclical
David Abram:
00:33:25
pilgrimages, these huge creaturely hejiras, also
David Abram:
00:33:30
pulsations within the broad body of the Earth? Are they not ways
David Abram:
00:33:34
that divergent places or ecosystems communicate with one
David Abram:
00:33:38
another, trading vital qualities essential to their continued
David Abram:
00:33:42
flourishing?
David Abram:
00:33:44
Think again then of the salmon. This gift born of the rocky
David Abram:
00:33:48
gravels and melting glaciers. Above here, nurtured by colossal
David Abram:
00:33:54
cedars and tumbled trunks decked with ferns, fungi, and moss. An
David Abram:
00:33:58
aquatic muscled energy strengthening itself in the
David Abram:
00:34:01
mossed and forested mountains, until it's ready to be released
David Abram:
00:34:05
into the broad ocean. Pouring seaward it adds itself to that
David Abram:
00:34:09
voluminous cauldron of currents spiraling in huge gyres, shaded
David Abram:
00:34:15
by algal blooms, and charged by faint glissandos of whalesong.
David Abram:
00:34:20
Until, grown large with the seas abundance, this ocean-infused
David Abram:
00:34:25
life flows back up the rivers and tributaries, and spreads out
David Abram:
00:34:29
into the wooded valleys; gifting the hollows and the needle
David Abram:
00:34:33
highlands with new minerals and nutrient; feeding bears and
David Abram:
00:34:37
osprey and eagles; ensuring that the glinting gift will be reborn
David Abram:
00:34:42
afresh from the lump of luminous eggs stashed under a layer of
David Abram:
00:34:46
pebbles. This circulation, this systole and diastole is one of
David Abram:
00:34:52
the surest signs that this Earth is alive. A rhythmic pulse of
David Abram:
00:34:58
silvery glacier-fed briliance, pouring through various arteries
David Abram:
00:35:02
into the wide body of the ocean. Circulating and growing there,
David Abram:
00:35:06
only to return by various veins to the beating heart of the
David Abram:
00:35:10
forest, ravid with new life.
Eric Magrane:
00:35:30
Go to a different elevation. What poems occur
Eric Magrane:
00:35:34
here?
Khari McClelland:
00:35:36
I'm always kind of like, interested in
Khari McClelland:
00:35:38
like, who's not in the room? I guess I think about that, like,
Khari McClelland:
00:35:43
is this a space where my grandmother would be like,
Khari McClelland:
00:35:45
"Yeah, this is where I should be." And like, not just my
Khari McClelland:
00:35:49
grandmother, but like, so many of the people that I grew up
Khari McClelland:
00:35:52
with, who didn't have the luxury of particular kinds of education
Khari McClelland:
00:35:58
or particular kinds of experience. And are they
Khari McClelland:
00:36:01
actually less equipped to be able to provide solutions to
Khari McClelland:
00:36:05
some of the challenges that we're facing? Is there a kind of
Khari McClelland:
00:36:09
wisdom or brilliance that is overlooked? The mundane
Khari McClelland:
00:36:14
creativity that's practiced by poor folks, by women often, and
Khari McClelland:
00:36:20
how that sits inside of inside of here.
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:26
People who would say to me over and over again,
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:28
"I don't belong anywhere. I hate groups. I don't join groups. I
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:33
won't go to school, I can't go to school." A lot of neuro
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:38
divergence, a lot of children coming and feeling welcome to
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:41
speak, and speak their mind, and be taken seriously. It just
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:44
really meant a lot — like this place where people would
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:48
continuously name "I don't belong, I don't feel belonging
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:51
and I come here." And this here — there was no here.
Khari McClelland:
00:36:55
There really is no way to presuppose what
Khari McClelland:
00:36:58
kind of miracle exists inside of each and every person. And when
Khari McClelland:
00:37:02
we look, and we think we already know what kind of magic exists
Khari McClelland:
00:37:07
inside of another, we've lost something.
Nadia Chaney:
00:37:10
That's what I mean by inter-cosmological space.
Nadia Chaney:
00:37:13
These whole like sets of knowledge could work together
Nadia Chaney:
00:37:18
and come to life, and we would play with them.
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:20
So in Anishinaabe way, we have our stories — we
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:25
call them the sacred ones, the ones that are informing the
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:30
worldview — the way to learn to view the world. And we call
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:35
those sacred stories. And those sacred stories morph and form
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:41
our imagination. And so the stories people us.
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:48
Anishnaabe, the ones who were lowered here, were gifted with
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:53
the capacity for language, but the language comes from the
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:59
place. And the place is the sounds; the acoustic! And then
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:10
when our language, respectfully, fits the place, and the place is
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:15
singing it, and we're ringing it, it's a completely different
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:19
thing.
Mark Fettes:
00:38:23
I too, was thinking of Dylan Robinson and his citing
Mark Fettes:
00:38:28
of Leanne Simpson in terms of Anishinaabe internationalism. So
Mark Fettes:
00:38:33
thinking of the language as embedded in this web of
Mark Fettes:
00:38:38
interspecies, international in her terms, relations.
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:43
And then we track the teachings of our relatives.
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:47
So when we're tracking them, we have to know their names and
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:52
their stories and their teachings, given this
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:56
mythopoetic landscape, what we call the cosmology. And we call
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:02
that way finding. We're finding the human way, the Anishnaabe
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:07
way of walking in this cosmology, and the teachers are
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:13
our relatives. In our story, in our sacred story, all the
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:18
teachings that were gifted to the beings in the seeds of
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:21
creation, were also poured into the human and overflowed into
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:27
the body of the human being, as well as the mind. And so we
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:31
don't know them only in our heads.
Mark Fettes:
00:39:33
And so right across Canada, you hear and I'm sure in
Mark Fettes:
00:39:40
other parts of the world, you hear elders saying that the
Mark Fettes:
00:39:43
language is the way the land talks to us. That is in a sense,
Mark Fettes:
00:39:47
it's not our language, it's the land's language, which we have
Mark Fettes:
00:39:51
learned in order to listen better to what it has to say. So
Mark Fettes:
00:39:56
then, when the language has faded from daily use amongst the
Mark Fettes:
00:40:03
people, there could still be a sense in which much of the
Mark Fettes:
00:40:08
language is nonetheless embodied relationally in interhuman
Mark Fettes:
00:40:14
relations, and in interspecies international relations. And
Mark Fettes:
00:40:20
also a way in which even where those relationships themselves —
Mark Fettes:
00:40:23
as is usually the case — are also frayed, because of the same
Mark Fettes:
00:40:27
processes of colonization, capitalism and so on,
Mark Fettes:
00:40:32
dispossession. Nonetheless, if relationships can be
Mark Fettes:
00:40:38
re-established with the land, and a lot of knowledge has been
Mark Fettes:
00:40:45
transposed into English and other colonial languages about
Mark Fettes:
00:40:48
those practices, and the practices themselves are
Mark Fettes:
00:40:52
enduring and carried on and passed on. Then there's a sense
Mark Fettes:
00:40:57
in which language is also present in those things, even
Mark Fettes:
00:41:00
though it's not being spoken as the language itself at the
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:05
Robin Wall Kimmerer says that some of us, us the old
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:05
moment.
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:09
ones, you know, we walk back along the path where our
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:13
ancestors left, the broken pieces — the songs, the dances,
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:17
the words, the ways, the ceremonies — and we pick them
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:22
up, and we learn how to hold them; to carry them. We put them
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:28
in our bundle. We have these words, we put them in our
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:31
bundle, and they travel with us. Like a lens, they help us
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:36
interpret. They help us to see in ways, that's where we use the
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:40
phrase wayfinding
Mark Fettes:
00:41:43
I think back to my entry into working with
Mark Fettes:
00:41:49
Indigenous people and thinking about the languages and my
Mark Fettes:
00:41:53
mentor at the time, my first mentor in this area was a woman
Mark Fettes:
00:41:57
called Ruth Norton, an elder from Manitoba, from Fort
Mark Fettes:
00:42:01
Alexander. And at one point, I was doing research on the Ruth's
Mark Fettes:
00:42:07
behalf for the Assembly of First Nations. And I had been reading
Mark Fettes:
00:42:12
the literature on bilingualism and so on. At one point, Ruth
Mark Fettes:
00:42:17
said to me gently but very firmly, "If some of our people
Mark Fettes:
00:42:23
don't speak their language, it doesn't mean that the language
Mark Fettes:
00:42:27
is still not deeply part of them. I don't expect you to
Mark Fettes:
00:42:32
understand that. I just want you to accept that."
Vicki Kelly:
00:42:36
So the Haudenosaunee scholar Dan
Vicki Kelly:
00:42:38
Longboat says "How long will it take our imaginations to
Vicki Kelly:
00:42:43
naturalize here?" Right, how long will it take to morph, so
Vicki Kelly:
00:42:51
that we can carry the teachings of the beings who are here as
Vicki Kelly:
00:42:56
our relatives? As, respectfully, as they are given. Not
Vicki Kelly:
00:43:06
interpreted. As they are given.
Eric Magrane:
00:43:12
Choose a species you know little about, but that
Eric Magrane:
00:43:15
lives in your ecosystem. Learn everything you can about that
Eric Magrane:
00:43:19
species, then go find the species. Write what happens.
Marjorie Wonham:
00:43:24
[Translating Pablo Neruda] You ask me perhaps
Marjorie Wonham:
00:43:26
about the Alcyonarian plumes that tremble in the pure origins
Marjorie Wonham:
00:43:29
of the Southern tides, and about the polyps' crystalline
Marjorie Wonham:
00:43:33
construction you have no doubt considered one more question,
Marjorie Wonham:
00:43:36
posing it now.
Eric Magrane:
00:43:38
Find an urban ecotone. Stand there. Write a
Eric Magrane:
00:43:43
poem from the dual space.
Stephen Collis:
00:43:45
Walkers are sometimes in flight. Have orbits
Stephen Collis:
00:43:49
that do not recognize the idiocy of borders.
Eric Magrane:
00:43:53
Imagine a rise in sea level. How will that affect
Eric Magrane:
00:43:57
your elevation poems?
Hari Alluri:
00:43:59
My dears, burglary has always been the surest way
Hari Alluri:
00:44:05
to get the gods to notice and give chase. Language, sunlight,
Hari Alluri:
00:44:12
the list goes on.
Eric Magrane:
00:44:14
List everything that is natural around you. List
Eric Magrane:
00:44:18
everything that is not natural around you.
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:22
Sky is light grown over days, everything a
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:25
coast of open bane, commerce winds up a bray coarse grit
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:30
shoals dense blue green fluvial strips and the dark green delta
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:36
dust — probably spores — hung in the air. Black apple fist fur
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:46
fish and lumber. Gray deciduous claims heights all logged to
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:53
stumps.
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:58
Conclaree has cht cht chp chp chp scoops blue ponded hard, to
Cecily Nicholson:
00:45:04
boat or hike you would fly, flap, soar and dart.
Stephen Collis:
00:45:08
So give me the light of stars that strives to
Stephen Collis:
00:45:11
but can't quite reach us. The one whose eyes are struck by the
Stephen Collis:
00:45:15
beam of darkness, the wings blinding, forms beating,
Stephen Collis:
00:45:19
piercing, all songs singing, fragile light spiralling from
Stephen Collis:
00:45:23
every wood and window. The time now is for pirates, and possibly
Stephen Collis:
00:45:28
warblers.
Hari Alluri:
00:45:29
And if I don't believe it when I say it,
Hari Alluri:
00:45:32
sunlight, language, fail me if you must. I know eventually you
Hari Alluri:
00:45:38
will. Divinity never forgets what's their's. The God's gave
Hari Alluri:
00:45:48
us healing willingly. We've been trying to return it ever since.
Hari Alluri:
00:45:56
Hand waving out front, shooing us away. They just won't take it
Hari Alluri:
00:46:02
back.
Eric Magrane:
00:46:04
Stand up and put your arms out. The length of
Eric Magrane:
00:46:09
your arms is the circle of the poem.
Cecily Nicholson:
00:46:12
We've learned to read the surface, like
Cecily Nicholson:
00:46:16
departed fluff and pollen husks. Phantom wings lighten up and fly
Cecily Nicholson:
00:46:21
away, wet and fall into soil, and a success of propagation
Cecily Nicholson:
00:46:25
rest and whetted loose trailing, roots dangle and venture.
David Abram:
00:46:31
In the absence of the written page — the book —
David Abram:
00:46:36
the land will be the visual mnemonic, and it will be
David Abram:
00:46:39
speaking stories steadily to us, in various sites in the
David Abram:
00:46:44
landscape, various powers potencies presences.
Robert Bringhurst:
00:46:48
Yeah sure, the world, the land is the
Robert Bringhurst:
00:46:51
original page, if you like. And it's not written because it's
Robert Bringhurst:
00:46:55
constantly writing itself and erasing itself, and correcting
Robert Bringhurst:
00:46:59
or at any rate changing itself.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:02
If the phenomena of the sunset is part
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:04
of the natural, unfeeling world, and I find myself to be as well,
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:08
then what applies to the sunset must in part apply to me. And if
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:11
the sunset is beautiful, then the world must be beautiful, and
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:14
I at least in part must be too. This revelation is present in
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:20
viewing any great miracle of the random universe that patiently
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:23
allows us to exist at the same moment as Northern Lights or
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:28
Spring. And if looking is a practice of discovery, then the
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:32
potential to find some similarity between ourselves and
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:35
the sunset should be enough to sustain some faith in living.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:41
So go now, and watch the setting sun. See its colors be devoured
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:47
by horizons and skylines — the sky emptied out. There is
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:52
nothing to prove. What gratitude, love and grace we
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:56
might feel in watching the sunset has no recipient to greet
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:59
it. And what good is a fiction of pure individuality when you
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:03
are loving the world across the chasm between yourself and
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:06
everything that is possible? The goings ons of chemicals in
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:09
rotations, the marks of physics in their indifferent routines.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:15
We are so small in the glow of the setting sun. Nothing natural
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:21
burns purely for our benefit. So love those last drags of light,
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:28
and our love is reflected back — leading us into the quiet
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:32
miracle of loving and being loved, with nowhere to go but
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:38
on.
Vicki Kelly:
00:48:40
And our responsibility, says Leroy
Vicki Kelly:
00:48:42
Little Bear, our responsibility is to give it back through
Vicki Kelly:
00:48:47
ceremony — that we're paying attention
Eric Magrane:
00:48:53
Fifteen — Write a poem that takes place over 4.5
Eric Magrane:
00:48:58
billion years. Thanks.
Chorus:
00:49:00
The feet are the link.
Chorus:
00:49:08
Between earth and the body. Begin there. Begin there.
Chorus:
00:49:22
The lungs are the link between body and air. Between body and
Chorus:
00:49:42
air.
Chorus:
00:49:42
The hands, these uprooted feet, are the means
Chorus:
00:49:50
Of our shaping and grasping. Clasp them.
Chorus:
00:49:57
The eyes are the hands of the head; its feet are the ears. Its
Chorus:
00:50:11
feet are the ears.
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:22
This episode was composed with the voices and
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:25
words of Michael Datura, Astrida Neimanis, Cosmo Sheldrake, Rex
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:30
Weyler, Robert Bringhurst, Jan Zwicky, David Abrahm, Megan
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:36
Gnanasihamany, Stephen Collis, Eric Magrane, Hari Alluri, Nadia
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:43
Chaney, Kaitlyn Purcell, Khari McClelland, Rita Wong, Jessica
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:48
Bebenek, Vicki Kelly, Mark Fettes, Marjorie Wonham, and
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:54
Cecily Nicholson.
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:56
And with music by Cosmo Sheldrake, Anne Bourne, Meredith
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:01
Buck, as arranged by Vanessa Richards, Jonathan Kawchuk, the
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:06
Time Zone collective, Emily Millard, Khari McClelland, Ruby
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:10
Singh, and Nathan Shubert. Field recordings by Julian Fisher, and
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:16
our theme song by Sunfish Moon Light.
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:21
A huge thank you to Erin Robinsong and Michael Datura,
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:24
without whom these conversations wouldn’t have taken place.
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:28
Thanks to Hollyhock for their generous hospitality and
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:31
support, and thank you to Juliette Bertoldo, Megan
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:34
Gnanasihamany, and Vanessa Richards for the help recording.
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:38
And thanks to you, for listening. Don’t forget to take
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:41
our survey, and to take care of yourself too.
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:46
You'll be hearing from us again soon.
00:00:00
Begin there —
Introduction Voiceover:
00:00:02
You are listening to Season Four
Chorus:
00:00:05
Begin there —
Introduction Voiceover:
00:00:06
of Future Ecologies.
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:09
Welcome back. Mendel here. And before we get
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:13
started, I just wanted to say thanks for your patience. It's
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:17
been quite a year, and it means a lot to have you with us. This
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:23
is the last episode of our fourth season. So it's time that
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:28
we listen to you, for a change. We'd love to get to know you
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:32
better, and find out what you'd like to hear in Season Five.
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:36
We've already got a number of stories in progress, but your
Mendel Skulski:
00:00:39
input will help shape how we tell them. So please fill out
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our brief listener survey. We'd love to hear from you. Find a
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00:00:48
link to that survey in the show notes, or click the banner at
Mendel Skulski:
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futureecologies.net.
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After this episode, our feed will mostly go quiet again for a
Mendel Skulski:
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few months, while we're cooking away in the background. To do
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that, we're relying on your support to keep making this show
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and to keep it completely ad free. Without our amazing
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Mendel Skulski:
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things about us wherever you find podcasts.
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Okay, now on to this episode. What you're about to hear comes
Mendel Skulski:
00:01:49
from a gathering on Klahoose, Tla’amin, and Homalco territory,
Mendel Skulski:
00:01:53
specifically Cortes island, in the spring of 2022. It was a
Mendel Skulski:
00:01:59
symposium of artists and scholars of all description,
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:02
assembled to reflect on, discuss, and share their
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:06
practice. Namely, that at an intersection referred to as
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:11
Geopoetics.
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:14
The word poem comes to us from the Greek "poiein", meaning to
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:18
make or create, and which would also be borrowed into the word
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:23
sympoiesis. Quoting from Donna Haraway, "Sympoiesis is a simple
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:29
word. It means making with. Nothing really makes itself.
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:34
Nothing is really autopoietic, or self organizing" end quote.
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:40
In that spirit, what follows is not a perfectly condensed
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:44
version of those events, nor is it attempting to be. Instead,
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:49
these many voices have been recontextualized and collaged
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:53
from where I sit — here as an uninvited guest on the unceded
Mendel Skulski:
00:02:57
and shared ancestral territory of the Musqueam, Squamish, and
Mendel Skulski:
00:03:01
Tsleil-waututh peoples — into a stream of consciousness on
Mendel Skulski:
00:03:05
language artmaking and more than human interconnection.
Mendel Skulski:
00:03:11
The sound isn't perfect, and sometimes you can hear a baby in
Mendel Skulski:
00:03:15
the room. But hey, that's life.
Mendel Skulski:
00:03:20
Here we go.
Michael Datura:
00:03:21
In the field of environmental education,
Michael Datura:
00:03:23
anthropomorphism — the charge of anthropomorphism is sort of a
Michael Datura:
00:03:28
dirty word. It's considered a logical fallacy. So that it's a
Michael Datura:
00:03:31
formal critique so that even the content of whatever comes is
Michael Datura:
00:03:34
sort of rendered false. If so, what if you just talk about your
Michael Datura:
00:03:39
experience with that, and anthropomorphizing the ocean,
Michael Datura:
00:03:43
but also ecologizing the body, and how you contend with that?
Astrida Neimanis:
00:03:47
Yeah that's a great question. And it's a funny
Astrida Neimanis:
00:03:50
talking to a room of a lot of poets and artists, as though
Astrida Neimanis:
00:03:54
qualities like this could not be transferred across species, but
Astrida Neimanis:
00:03:58
I think that my short answer to that leveling of that charge of
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:02
anthropomorphism is always like, why do we think humans felt
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:08
those things first, or had those things first? We learn our
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:12
feelings, I think, from the world around us, we learn
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:16
sensation, we learn inter-relationality, we learn
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:20
communication, we learn language, from all of these
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:23
things. So then to say, you know, to hold all of that stuff
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:26
close to us and say, "No, this belongs to humans. And it's
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:29
ethically wrong to consider that another kind of being would be
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:35
tired or be angry or be upset or need a hug" is I think, even
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:40
more anthropocentric in a way — because it like it hogs... it
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:45
hogs all of those great words and feelings and sensations as
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:48
though they just belong here. You know, where did we get them
Astrida Neimanis:
00:04:51
from?
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:04:52
Something to me that I find really helpful
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:04:54
recently, particularly been thinking a lot about, because
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:04:56
I've been working with birdsong for a while. And something that
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:04:59
recording gives you access to — that just listening without
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:03
recording can't — is your ability to slow things down and
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:07
speed things up. There's this artists, Marcus Coates in the
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:10
UK, who did this project called Dawn Chorus, where he, he slowed
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:13
down birdsong, specific birds, by 20 times and got different
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:17
people to learn the song 20 times slower, and then filmed
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:21
them singing it 20 times, and then sped them up 20 times —
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:26
their breath, their head movements, they become bird in
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:29
this really uncanny way. And it just makes this really strong
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:33
point about this time, this kind of temporal barrier between us
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:36
and some other living organisms that exist on a different
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:38
timeframe. And once you can slow down or speed things up, you can
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:43
somewhat close that gap, and kind of meet in this weird,
Cosmo Sheldrake:
00:05:47
uncanny way.
Rex Weyler:
00:05:50
It's not so much a statement as a question — what
Rex Weyler:
00:05:53
is the language of ecology? And there's an issue here with the
Rex Weyler:
00:05:57
word "environment" versus "ecology". People think of the
Rex Weyler:
00:06:00
environment is something that's out there, and we're gonna fix
Rex Weyler:
00:06:03
it or we need it or something like that. Ecology is something
Rex Weyler:
00:06:08
we're inside of. So part of what I've experienced in the ecology
Rex Weyler:
00:06:14
movement over 50 years, is that we just continually get hung up
Rex Weyler:
00:06:20
on language. And that I've kind of felt like I've been searching
Rex Weyler:
00:06:24
my whole life for a language that actually speaks ecology,
Rex Weyler:
00:06:29
and speaks of this undivided whole of which everything is a
Rex Weyler:
00:06:35
part.
Rex Weyler:
00:06:37
All divisions are arbitrary. We cut up the world to describe it.
Rex Weyler:
00:06:43
And someone might say, "Well, we know the difference between a
Rex Weyler:
00:06:48
rocket tree we know the difference between a tree in the
Rex Weyler:
00:06:52
atmosphere." Do we? We talk about a tree, the soil, and the
Rex Weyler:
00:06:57
atmosphere, but none of those three things (tree, soil, or
Rex Weyler:
00:07:00
atmosphere — or fungi) exist independently in the others. So
Rex Weyler:
00:07:06
when we speak of them, were approximating. Language is
Rex Weyler:
00:07:13
necessary… or useful, let's say. Language is useful so that we
Rex Weyler:
00:07:18
can just talk to each other. And we can talk to each other about
Rex Weyler:
00:07:21
the tree and the soil and the atmosphere, when we know that
Rex Weyler:
00:07:24
none of those things exist independently.
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:26
The real subject here is really how the
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:30
Earth means. I just take for granted that the Earth means. It
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:34
is so obvious to me that it has never occurred to me that it
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:37
needed explaining. But I hear a lot of people say that they are
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:42
engaged in making meaning, as if there weren't any until they
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:46
made some. I just don't get it.
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:53
The ground we walked on to get here, the stones that got stuck
Robert Bringhurst:
00:07:57
in the soles of my shoes, and the other ones that are big
Robert Bringhurst:
00:08:02
enough to stay in their places, and the trees, and all the
Robert Bringhurst:
00:08:06
little plants underneath the trees, and all the little things
Robert Bringhurst:
00:08:10
way up in the trees — they are all meaning incarnate. This
Robert Bringhurst:
00:08:15
building is not meaningless either, but it ain't much
Robert Bringhurst:
00:08:18
compared to what's out there. And we are meaning incarnate
Robert Bringhurst:
00:08:24
too.
Jan Zwicky:
00:08:27
You and the world are real together. You're built
Jan Zwicky:
00:08:32
so that you can understand one another.
David Abram:
00:08:35
To our animal flesh, to our creaturely senses,
David Abram:
00:08:41
each thing I encounter is always withholding parts of itself
David Abram:
00:08:47
within itself. And it also is hiding other things behind
David Abram:
00:08:52
itself.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:08:52
Their features refuse to cohere into
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:08:54
recognizable form.
David Abram:
00:08:56
Nothing is ever encountered, all explicit, open,
David Abram:
00:09:02
total. For me, that's not a source of frustration, it's a
David Abram:
00:09:05
source of delight. It's just the signal that I —
Stephen Collis:
00:09:09
Anima, animal, animate
David Abram:
00:09:12
— in my own animal body, am inside something much
David Abram:
00:09:16
bigger than me, in which things dance and play with one another,
David Abram:
00:09:23
and beckon to me and others withdraw from my attention
David Abram:
00:09:27
entirely and hide off.
Jan Zwicky:
00:09:29
Explicit — what that word means is unfolded,
Jan Zwicky:
00:09:32
everything has been unfolded. Well, often what that means is
Jan Zwicky:
00:09:37
to dissect something, or to flay it, to peel it, to expose it. A
Jan Zwicky:
00:09:45
great deal of biological life must remain implicit, or it's
Jan Zwicky:
00:09:50
dead.
David Abram:
00:09:52
And of course, a way to gain the bare beginnings
David Abram:
00:09:57
of an access to the interior of something (without flaying it),
David Abram:
00:10:03
is to ask and to enter into conversation.
Jan Zwicky:
00:10:08
Make eye contact
Vanessa Richards and Chorus:
00:10:16
Listen. Let your water be your guide.
Vanessa Richards and Chorus:
00:10:28
Let the water decide. Lose yourself in the meantime.
Vanessa Richards and Chorus:
00:10:35
Listen.
Eric Magrane:
00:10:39
How the world is organized is a function of
Eric Magrane:
00:10:42
belief. For example, here are just a few ways that climate
Eric Magrane:
00:10:46
change is understood or portrayed. As an apocalyptic
Eric Magrane:
00:10:51
threat to humanity, as a national security issue, as an
Eric Magrane:
00:10:57
engineering problem, as a social and environmental justice issue,
Eric Magrane:
00:11:04
as a hoax, as a business opportunity, as a crisis of
Eric Magrane:
00:11:10
capitalism, patriarchy, settler colonialism, racism and or
Eric Magrane:
00:11:16
neoliberalism, or as an opportunity for radical
Eric Magrane:
00:11:21
transformation.
Eric Magrane:
00:11:23
How climate change is framed then has reverberations for how
Eric Magrane:
00:11:27
it is approached or addressed or ignored. These framings also
Eric Magrane:
00:11:33
often map onto deeper ideologies about human-environment
Eric Magrane:
00:11:37
relationship, expressed through social, political, economic and
Eric Magrane:
00:11:41
land systems. When I think about the climate crisis from a
Eric Magrane:
00:11:46
geopolitical standpoint, climate change is about time and
Eric Magrane:
00:11:50
materiality. Time — the scales of time in which we must think
Eric Magrane:
00:11:55
to understand climate. Materiality — minerals, fossils,
Eric Magrane:
00:12:01
plastic bags, the decayed remains of marine life powering
Eric Magrane:
00:12:05
our machines. In short, organizations of matter.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:12
Scale asks us to measure phenomena in terms of
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:15
close or far, small or big, more significant or less. And we
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:19
readily think of scale in terms of things like time or duration,
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:23
minutes, years, eons. Or in terms of size or space — micro,
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:28
macro, local, global. It follows that a scale of mattering might
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:33
map onto these other scales according to things like
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:36
intensity and heft, or sheer numbers. "We need to scale our
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:41
actions up", we say. "Just a drop in the ocean" is a figure
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:46
of speech for a reason, after all. But despite our desire for
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:52
scale to temper the crass leveling effect of analogy, we
Astrida Neimanis:
00:12:57
also recognize another kind of brutality creeping into these
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:00
scalar logics. Where Euclidean geometries assemble, to measure
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:06
and mark and value, and with these metrics comes fungibility
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:12
of each constituent part.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:15
This is what anthropologist Anna Tsing might call the malevolent
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:18
hegemony of precision nesting — an expansionist logic whereby
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:25
scaling up means that any precisely measurable elements
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:29
can be multiplied without consequence. So here, instead of
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:34
the violence of analogy or equivalence, we face the
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:37
violence of quantification and reduction and exchangeability.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:42
And neither gives us the tools we need for the kind of scaling
Astrida Neimanis:
00:13:45
up that we seek.
Robert Bringhurst:
00:13:47
Many things in the world are a matter of
Robert Bringhurst:
00:13:51
scale. Sandhill Cranes are creatures whose song is within
Robert Bringhurst:
00:13:59
our hearing range, and whose bodies are large enough, and
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:04
whose gestures are large enough that we can see them. And so if
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:12
you are lucky enough to hear the Sandhill Cranes and watch them
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:17
dance, you will be changed forever by this experience. But
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:24
another thing that ought to happen is that it ought to occur
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:27
to you that just because you can see the Sandhill Cranes dance
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:31
doesn't mean that nothing else dances. What about the bacteria?
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:36
What about the deer mites? What about the lichens? What about
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:39
the other things that are outside your range somehow — the
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:44
things whose voices are too high or too low in pitch for your
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:50
ears; the things that are too small or too large for you to
Robert Bringhurst:
00:14:54
see. The Earth, for example.
Hari Alluri:
00:14:57
I mean, we dance inside ourselves. Even when
Hari Alluri:
00:15:01
we're still.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:15:11
Nature and its description into image —
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:15:13
whether photo, drawing, or painting en plein air — has long
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:15:16
been conscripted into the propagation of a historical myth
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:15:19
— The untouched and glorious Earth, primed and waiting for
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:15:23
your eyes, and yours alone, to appreciate to capture an image
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:15:26
of your own.
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:28
A name on a map, like a contour line or a
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:31
smudge of green or squiggle of blue, can never tell you all you
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:35
want or need to know.
Eric Magrane:
00:15:42
One — Note your elevation above sea level. What
Eric Magrane:
00:15:47
poems occur here?
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:49
What is is what has happened, Hegel says.
David Abram:
00:15:53
Who cares what Hegel says?!
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:56
And what has happened
David Abram:
00:15:57
What happens is what is.
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:58
is what is
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:58
What is
Robert Bringhurst:
00:15:59
spread out through time
Jan Zwicky:
00:16:00
is what is timeless caught in time.
Vanessa Richards and Chorus:
00:16:13
[Magic Number Song]
Nadia Chaney:
00:16:49
But what stuck with me was the walk, not the
Nadia Chaney:
00:16:51
song. I don't remember the song. But the specific walk that I was
Nadia Chaney:
00:16:55
doing. So then I started playing with this walk all over town.
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:00
And I had the weirdest thing happen, which was this temporal
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:03
effect. Where I started being — the slower I walked, the sooner
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:08
I would get places.
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:12
I was working in a restaurant. And I had my boss start timing
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:15
it until he got super angry. And he was — he stopped. He refused
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:23
to do it anymore. Like he really screamed it out. He was really
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:26
angry, because it was disturbing at a really deep level to his
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:32
sense of... his sense of the way things are.
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:36
And the question that I had was "is time incarcerated?" I read
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:43
and I read and I was like, ah... I can't actually ask this
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:46
question before I ask this other question, "How can we be more
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:49
intimate with time?" I need to first encounter time before I
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:54
start asking is it incarcerated, because there's all these
Nadia Chaney:
00:17:57
presumptions about what is it... and I was doing the NGO thing
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:02
unconsciously — already making the other the object, and then
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:05
trying to fix it and solve it. So luckily, I caught that before
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:09
I started the project and said, "Okay, how can we be more
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:14
intimate with time?" And then the second question, "is time
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:18
incarcerated? And if so, how can we help to liberate it?"
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:22
So these zoom windows I know, I know, it can be offensive to be
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:25
like... I heard David this morning, right, the tone like
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:29
"not on Zoom." But it was different! People would sleep,
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:33
right? There were people from all over the world. So as that
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:36
entire almost like 15 hour period will go by, we'd watch
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:40
the sun, we'd watch the shadows, you'd hear the birds, you'd see
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:43
the dawn. People would fall asleep, and they'd leave the
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:46
sound on, and the video on, and sleeping! Right? That's the...
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:52
it was both the informality and the safety, but also the study
Nadia Chaney:
00:18:55
of time.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:18:57
We are now all tumbling in the circulations of
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:00
planetary exhaustion, where tiredness is both different and
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:05
shared. Much has been made of our 24/7 neon-lit late
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:10
capitalist cultures, the vertigo-inducing speed of the
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:14
Sixth Extinction, the spectacularly swift and tireless
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:17
resurgence of white supremacy and eco fascism, alongside the
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:22
never resting rising heat of the noonday sun. But we have thought
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:26
perhaps less about what comes after and with the end of this
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:30
world, the insomniac one — our bodies see no longer hack it. We
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:35
fall down, fall apart, exhausted. We need to sleep.
Nadia Chaney:
00:19:40
And that happened all the time. It was like we
Nadia Chaney:
00:19:45
were always right on time.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:47
This is multispecies sympoiesis at work,
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:50
in the name of flourishing. Although we often speak of sleep
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:55
in terms of self care, paying attention to the ocean and its
Astrida Neimanis:
00:19:59
communities reminds us that even sleeping — the most inward
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:05
oriented and perhaps solipsistic of acts — is actually about
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:09
mutual care.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:11
Some of the planet's most significant deforestation events
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:15
have in fact occurred underwater. Off the east coast
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:19
of Tasmania, 95% of the giant kelp forests that once dominated
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:23
these seas have disappeared in the last few decades. In Western
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:27
Australia, a particularly hot summer between 2010 and 2013
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:32
wiped out 100 kilometers of kelp forests. These forests are not
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:37
only magnificent in and for themselves, but have been vital
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:41
for the formation of habitat on reefs around temperate
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:44
Australia. They are places for hundreds of other species of
Astrida Neimanis:
00:20:49
plants and animals to rest.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:20:54
A desire for order is the most dangerous
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:20:56
dream that is held by the majority of North American
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:20:58
citizens. Technically, even the fascists dream at night. It is
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:21:04
our obligation to dream differently.
Eric Magrane:
00:21:08
Two — Map the quarter mile radius around your
Eric Magrane:
00:21:12
home in a poem.
Stephen Collis:
00:21:14
Everything's going to be... alright.
Stephen Collis:
00:21:17
Everything's going to be... destroyed.
Kaitlyn Purcell:
00:21:21
The world is going to end. Why is the world
Kaitlyn Purcell:
00:21:25
always fucking ending?
Khari McClelland:
00:21:28
I dunno how to say this, but I feel like
Khari McClelland:
00:21:29
sometimes... I've had to observe a lot of like human life loss
Khari McClelland:
00:21:37
and precarity, so I have a different perspective sometimes
Khari McClelland:
00:21:41
about... I don't know, I feel like this is a weird thing to
Khari McClelland:
00:21:48
say, but I feel like a lot of you might be really sad because,
Khari McClelland:
00:21:53
like, things are really fucked up right now.
Khari McClelland:
00:21:57
And I guess what I'm going to say to you is that... it's been
Khari McClelland:
00:22:03
fucked up for a while. And I just like I kind of live with
Khari McClelland:
00:22:11
that in my gut sometimes.
Khari McClelland:
00:22:14
Just because, you know, for some, for some of us, it's been
Khari McClelland:
00:22:17
hundreds of years of incredible terror. And, you know, it's a
Khari McClelland:
00:22:24
great luxury to feel in this moment like something's wrong.
Khari McClelland:
00:22:28
It's good to be agitated — to want to make things be
Khari McClelland:
00:22:32
different. When we start to become a little too comfortable
Khari McClelland:
00:22:36
with things being out of sort being unjust that's where if it
Khari McClelland:
00:22:41
feels like it's a problem. It's like that since the agitation is
Khari McClelland:
00:22:45
actually some kind of good fuel, I think.
Khari McClelland:
00:22:48
[Song of the Agitators fades in]
Rita Wong:
00:22:50
I struggle between being instrumental in wanting
Rita Wong:
00:22:53
this outcome, and also just being unconditional that
Rita Wong:
00:22:56
whatever happens we still need to do what we can. So it is
Rita Wong:
00:23:00
late, but it is not too late.
Khari McClelland:
00:23:14
Well here we are today, still pushing for
Khari McClelland:
00:23:19
equal pay. And these treaty rights don't hold. Their shiny
Khari McClelland:
00:23:29
like the Judas gold. Stain of blood still remains, a mother's
Khari McClelland:
00:23:39
only son slain. And our youth are crying out for more,
Khari McClelland:
00:23:49
continually being ignored. On that day, we will be family
Khari McClelland:
00:24:02
equal born and free. Dawn will come, night will cease. We'll
Khari McClelland:
00:24:13
rejoice, mind at ease. For that day we'll work and wait. That's
Khari McClelland:
00:24:24
when we'll cease to agitate.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:24:32
So every morning, the Earth turns and day
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:24:34
breaks over the horizon. And every night we spin away
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:24:37
eclipsed by the planet's own great shadow, facing outward and
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:24:41
away from the center of our solar system until we're back in
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:24:44
the favor of the light. It's not so difficult to miss the sunset.
Eric Magrane:
00:24:53
Draw a line. On one side of the line note
Eric Magrane:
00:24:56
observations. On the other side. write responses to those
Eric Magrane:
00:25:01
observations. Which is which?
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:06
I learned to rinse my hands with vinegar
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:07
before lifting away the thin new mothers that formed on top of
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:11
the brewed kombucha every two weeks. To tell mold from age
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:15
spots, and to let go — to forgive myself for letting
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:19
things turn too sour. The process of fermentation presents
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:24
itself almost too easily as a metaphor. The way time
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:28
transforms something bitter into something full of goodness; how
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:32
the mother turns raw materials into something entirely new
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:36
while simultaneously replicating itself. Perhaps we can follow in
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:40
the footsteps of Susan Sontag's argument in Illness as Metaphor
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:44
in which she insists that, quote, "Illness is not a
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:47
metaphor." And that "The most truthful way of regarding
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:51
illness, and the healthiest way of being ill, is one most
Jessica Bebenek:
00:25:54
purified of, most resistant to metaphoric thinking." end quote.
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:01
Likewise, perhaps the most truthful, or even the healthiest
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:04
way of understanding fermentation is as it is —
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:08
devoid of metaphor. Rejecting metaphor requires extending our
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:13
feeling, stretching our empathy towards understanding something,
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:17
not based on its use in relation to human comprehension, but
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:21
towards attempting to understand it purely for what it is. To
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:29
understand fermentation as not only a metaphor — because of
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:32
course it can exist both to us as metaphoric and actual — is to
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:36
understand it as a naturally occurring process with which
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:39
humans are simply collaborators. And in understanding this, we
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:43
can realize that this form of non-human life, this collection
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:47
of symbiotic bacteria and yeast, is as vital a form of life as
Jessica Bebenek:
00:26:51
our own existence in the world.
Eric Magrane:
00:26:53
Go with your gut, and repeat after me. I am mostly
Eric Magrane:
00:27:02
microbial flora. Great. How does that feel?
Rex Weyler:
00:27:11
When do those molecules of apple become
Rex Weyler:
00:27:13
molecules of me? At what point? For me, I start to realize,
Rex Weyler:
00:27:18
well, you don't need to know that because it's just this
Rex Weyler:
00:27:22
constant flow. And that's part of the ecological consciousness
Rex Weyler:
00:27:27
as well — that we're not independent, isolated beings.
Rex Weyler:
00:27:32
And even though we have this skin, and so forth, that nothing
Rex Weyler:
00:27:36
about us survives or lives without this constant flow of
Rex Weyler:
00:27:40
energy, food, nutrients, and all of this. From an ecological
Rex Weyler:
00:27:44
point of view, there are no isolated things, and everything
Rex Weyler:
00:27:48
is a process. And everything is a process. So it's an
Rex Weyler:
00:27:51
interesting question, but maybe not that relevant to ask "when
Rex Weyler:
00:27:54
does the apple become me?" Because it was me before, and
Rex Weyler:
00:27:58
then me after, and it doesn't matter.
Rex Weyler:
00:28:02
And, you know, this sort of ties into this, this whole idea of
Rex Weyler:
00:28:06
this expanded self. In human society, there have been many
Rex Weyler:
00:28:11
movements, which have proposed that we, that we expand the idea
Rex Weyler:
00:28:18
of self beyond the skin. So we have these social imperatives.
Rex Weyler:
00:28:27
And there's a social self. And we're one with our brothers and
Rex Weyler:
00:28:30
sisters all over the world. And we're a family. We've certainly
Rex Weyler:
00:28:35
bicker like one. But this expand itself doesn't stop with the
Rex Weyler:
00:28:40
human family, does it? And it doesn't even stop with all
Rex Weyler:
00:28:44
sentient beings. Because it's the soil and it's the rock and
Rex Weyler:
00:28:49
it's the earth and it's the atmosphere. Intellectually, we
Rex Weyler:
00:28:52
can arrive there. But emotionally and
Rex Weyler:
00:28:57
inter-relationship-wise, it's very difficult because we keep
Rex Weyler:
00:29:00
falling back into our language — which makes things out of all
Rex Weyler:
00:29:06
this process.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:08
Bodies are not self-sufficient, zipped up in
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:11
some diverse suit of skin. If imagining the sea as a body,
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:16
however anthropomorphized, can help us understand its fatigue.
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:21
What might it mean for us to imagine ourselves our human
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:25
bodies of water as more oceanic? What if we understood ourselves
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:30
to as whole ecologies made up of component bodies and supporting
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:34
systems? What if the borders of our sovereign selves were to be
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:39
a bit dissolved?
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:41
This is not only an ontological question of what a body is, or
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:45
even what a body can do. It's a question of care. While our
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:50
exhaustion can teach us something about the uneven
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:53
distribution of sleeplessness as an index of other inequalities,
Astrida Neimanis:
00:29:58
it can also encourage us to consider multispecies ecologies
Astrida Neimanis:
00:30:02
of sleeplessness, and what it will take to help each other get
Astrida Neimanis:
00:30:06
some rest. We need each other. We are nothing without each
Astrida Neimanis:
00:30:11
other. Opening to share vulnerability, relying on each
Astrida Neimanis:
00:30:16
other, we might help hold each others fatigue.
Vicky:
00:30:19
each others
David Abram:
00:30:26
Then the long range migrations of certain creatures
David Abram:
00:30:30
can only be a conundrum; a puzzle we'll try to solve by
David Abram:
00:30:34
continually compounding the various internal mechanisms that
David Abram:
00:30:38
might somehow in combination grant the creature the power to
David Abram:
00:30:41
grapple its way across the world. But instead of
David Abram:
00:30:44
hypothesizing more metaphorical gadgets, adding further
David Abram:
00:30:49
accessories to a Crane's or a Salmon's internal array of
David Abram:
00:30:53
tools, what if we were to allow that the animals migratory skill
David Abram:
00:30:57
arises from a felt rapport between its body and the
David Abram:
00:31:01
breathing earth?
David Abram:
00:31:08
That a Crane's 3000 kilometer journey across the span of a
David Abram:
00:31:12
continent is propelled by a felt unison between its flexing
David Abram:
00:31:17
muscles and the sensitive flesh of this planet — this huge
David Abram:
00:31:22
curved expanse, roiling with air currents, and rippling with
David Abram:
00:31:27
electromagnetic pulses. And so is enacted as much by Earth's
David Abram:
00:31:32
vitality as by the bird that flies within it. What if this
David Abram:
00:31:38
dynamic alliance between an animal and the animate orb that
David Abram:
00:31:43
gives it breath — What... what is this? What seasonal tensions
David Abram:
00:31:49
and relaxations in the atmosphere? What subtle torsions
David Abram:
00:31:53
in the geosphere help to draw half a million Cranes so
David Abram:
00:31:57
precisely across the continent? What rolling succession or
David Abram:
00:32:01
sequence of blossomings helps summon these millions of
David Abram:
00:32:05
Butterflies across the belly of the land? What alterations in
David Abram:
00:32:09
the olfactory medium? What bursts of solar exuberance
David Abram:
00:32:13
through the magnetosphere? What attractions and repulsions? For
David Abram:
00:32:17
surely, really, and truly, these migratory folks are not taking
David Abram:
00:32:21
readings from technical instruments, or mathematically
David Abram:
00:32:25
calculating angles. They are riding waves of sensation,
David Abram:
00:32:30
responding attentively to allurements and gestures in the
David Abram:
00:32:34
topological manifold; reverberating subtle expressions
David Abram:
00:32:38
that reach them from afar. These beings are dancing, not with
David Abram:
00:32:42
themselves, but with the animate rondure of the Earth. Their
David Abram:
00:32:47
wider flesh, meeting — between oneself, one's creaturely body,
David Abram:
00:32:54
and the vast body of the land.
David Abram:
00:32:59
So perhaps it'd be useful to consider the large collective
David Abram:
00:33:03
migrations of various creatures as active expressions of the
David Abram:
00:33:07
Earth itself — to consider them as slow gestures of a living
David Abram:
00:33:13
geology, improvisational experiments that gradually
David Abram:
00:33:16
stabilized into habits, now necessary to the ongoing
David Abram:
00:33:20
metabolism of the sphere. For truly, are not these cyclical
David Abram:
00:33:25
pilgrimages, these huge creaturely hejiras, also
David Abram:
00:33:30
pulsations within the broad body of the Earth? Are they not ways
David Abram:
00:33:34
that divergent places or ecosystems communicate with one
David Abram:
00:33:38
another, trading vital qualities essential to their continued
David Abram:
00:33:42
flourishing?
David Abram:
00:33:44
Think again then of the salmon. This gift born of the rocky
David Abram:
00:33:48
gravels and melting glaciers. Above here, nurtured by colossal
David Abram:
00:33:54
cedars and tumbled trunks decked with ferns, fungi, and moss. An
David Abram:
00:33:58
aquatic muscled energy strengthening itself in the
David Abram:
00:34:01
mossed and forested mountains, until it's ready to be released
David Abram:
00:34:05
into the broad ocean. Pouring seaward it adds itself to that
David Abram:
00:34:09
voluminous cauldron of currents spiraling in huge gyres, shaded
David Abram:
00:34:15
by algal blooms, and charged by faint glissandos of whalesong.
David Abram:
00:34:20
Until, grown large with the seas abundance, this ocean-infused
David Abram:
00:34:25
life flows back up the rivers and tributaries, and spreads out
David Abram:
00:34:29
into the wooded valleys; gifting the hollows and the needle
David Abram:
00:34:33
highlands with new minerals and nutrient; feeding bears and
David Abram:
00:34:37
osprey and eagles; ensuring that the glinting gift will be reborn
David Abram:
00:34:42
afresh from the lump of luminous eggs stashed under a layer of
David Abram:
00:34:46
pebbles. This circulation, this systole and diastole is one of
David Abram:
00:34:52
the surest signs that this Earth is alive. A rhythmic pulse of
David Abram:
00:34:58
silvery glacier-fed briliance, pouring through various arteries
David Abram:
00:35:02
into the wide body of the ocean. Circulating and growing there,
David Abram:
00:35:06
only to return by various veins to the beating heart of the
David Abram:
00:35:10
forest, ravid with new life.
Eric Magrane:
00:35:30
Go to a different elevation. What poems occur
Eric Magrane:
00:35:34
here?
Khari McClelland:
00:35:36
I'm always kind of like, interested in
Khari McClelland:
00:35:38
like, who's not in the room? I guess I think about that, like,
Khari McClelland:
00:35:43
is this a space where my grandmother would be like,
Khari McClelland:
00:35:45
"Yeah, this is where I should be." And like, not just my
Khari McClelland:
00:35:49
grandmother, but like, so many of the people that I grew up
Khari McClelland:
00:35:52
with, who didn't have the luxury of particular kinds of education
Khari McClelland:
00:35:58
or particular kinds of experience. And are they
Khari McClelland:
00:36:01
actually less equipped to be able to provide solutions to
Khari McClelland:
00:36:05
some of the challenges that we're facing? Is there a kind of
Khari McClelland:
00:36:09
wisdom or brilliance that is overlooked? The mundane
Khari McClelland:
00:36:14
creativity that's practiced by poor folks, by women often, and
Khari McClelland:
00:36:20
how that sits inside of inside of here.
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:26
People who would say to me over and over again,
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:28
"I don't belong anywhere. I hate groups. I don't join groups. I
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:33
won't go to school, I can't go to school." A lot of neuro
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:38
divergence, a lot of children coming and feeling welcome to
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:41
speak, and speak their mind, and be taken seriously. It just
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:44
really meant a lot — like this place where people would
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:48
continuously name "I don't belong, I don't feel belonging
Nadia Chaney:
00:36:51
and I come here." And this here — there was no here.
Khari McClelland:
00:36:55
There really is no way to presuppose what
Khari McClelland:
00:36:58
kind of miracle exists inside of each and every person. And when
Khari McClelland:
00:37:02
we look, and we think we already know what kind of magic exists
Khari McClelland:
00:37:07
inside of another, we've lost something.
Nadia Chaney:
00:37:10
That's what I mean by inter-cosmological space.
Nadia Chaney:
00:37:13
These whole like sets of knowledge could work together
Nadia Chaney:
00:37:18
and come to life, and we would play with them.
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:20
So in Anishinaabe way, we have our stories — we
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:25
call them the sacred ones, the ones that are informing the
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:30
worldview — the way to learn to view the world. And we call
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:35
those sacred stories. And those sacred stories morph and form
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:41
our imagination. And so the stories people us.
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:48
Anishnaabe, the ones who were lowered here, were gifted with
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:53
the capacity for language, but the language comes from the
Vicki Kelly:
00:37:59
place. And the place is the sounds; the acoustic! And then
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:10
when our language, respectfully, fits the place, and the place is
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:15
singing it, and we're ringing it, it's a completely different
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:19
thing.
Mark Fettes:
00:38:23
I too, was thinking of Dylan Robinson and his citing
Mark Fettes:
00:38:28
of Leanne Simpson in terms of Anishinaabe internationalism. So
Mark Fettes:
00:38:33
thinking of the language as embedded in this web of
Mark Fettes:
00:38:38
interspecies, international in her terms, relations.
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:43
And then we track the teachings of our relatives.
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:47
So when we're tracking them, we have to know their names and
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:52
their stories and their teachings, given this
Vicki Kelly:
00:38:56
mythopoetic landscape, what we call the cosmology. And we call
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:02
that way finding. We're finding the human way, the Anishnaabe
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:07
way of walking in this cosmology, and the teachers are
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:13
our relatives. In our story, in our sacred story, all the
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:18
teachings that were gifted to the beings in the seeds of
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:21
creation, were also poured into the human and overflowed into
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:27
the body of the human being, as well as the mind. And so we
Vicki Kelly:
00:39:31
don't know them only in our heads.
Mark Fettes:
00:39:33
And so right across Canada, you hear and I'm sure in
Mark Fettes:
00:39:40
other parts of the world, you hear elders saying that the
Mark Fettes:
00:39:43
language is the way the land talks to us. That is in a sense,
Mark Fettes:
00:39:47
it's not our language, it's the land's language, which we have
Mark Fettes:
00:39:51
learned in order to listen better to what it has to say. So
Mark Fettes:
00:39:56
then, when the language has faded from daily use amongst the
Mark Fettes:
00:40:03
people, there could still be a sense in which much of the
Mark Fettes:
00:40:08
language is nonetheless embodied relationally in interhuman
Mark Fettes:
00:40:14
relations, and in interspecies international relations. And
Mark Fettes:
00:40:20
also a way in which even where those relationships themselves —
Mark Fettes:
00:40:23
as is usually the case — are also frayed, because of the same
Mark Fettes:
00:40:27
processes of colonization, capitalism and so on,
Mark Fettes:
00:40:32
dispossession. Nonetheless, if relationships can be
Mark Fettes:
00:40:38
re-established with the land, and a lot of knowledge has been
Mark Fettes:
00:40:45
transposed into English and other colonial languages about
Mark Fettes:
00:40:48
those practices, and the practices themselves are
Mark Fettes:
00:40:52
enduring and carried on and passed on. Then there's a sense
Mark Fettes:
00:40:57
in which language is also present in those things, even
Mark Fettes:
00:41:00
though it's not being spoken as the language itself at the
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:05
Robin Wall Kimmerer says that some of us, us the old
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:05
moment.
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:09
ones, you know, we walk back along the path where our
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:13
ancestors left, the broken pieces — the songs, the dances,
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:17
the words, the ways, the ceremonies — and we pick them
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:22
up, and we learn how to hold them; to carry them. We put them
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:28
in our bundle. We have these words, we put them in our
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:31
bundle, and they travel with us. Like a lens, they help us
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:36
interpret. They help us to see in ways, that's where we use the
Vicki Kelly:
00:41:40
phrase wayfinding
Mark Fettes:
00:41:43
I think back to my entry into working with
Mark Fettes:
00:41:49
Indigenous people and thinking about the languages and my
Mark Fettes:
00:41:53
mentor at the time, my first mentor in this area was a woman
Mark Fettes:
00:41:57
called Ruth Norton, an elder from Manitoba, from Fort
Mark Fettes:
00:42:01
Alexander. And at one point, I was doing research on the Ruth's
Mark Fettes:
00:42:07
behalf for the Assembly of First Nations. And I had been reading
Mark Fettes:
00:42:12
the literature on bilingualism and so on. At one point, Ruth
Mark Fettes:
00:42:17
said to me gently but very firmly, "If some of our people
Mark Fettes:
00:42:23
don't speak their language, it doesn't mean that the language
Mark Fettes:
00:42:27
is still not deeply part of them. I don't expect you to
Mark Fettes:
00:42:32
understand that. I just want you to accept that."
Vicki Kelly:
00:42:36
So the Haudenosaunee scholar Dan
Vicki Kelly:
00:42:38
Longboat says "How long will it take our imaginations to
Vicki Kelly:
00:42:43
naturalize here?" Right, how long will it take to morph, so
Vicki Kelly:
00:42:51
that we can carry the teachings of the beings who are here as
Vicki Kelly:
00:42:56
our relatives? As, respectfully, as they are given. Not
Vicki Kelly:
00:43:06
interpreted. As they are given.
Eric Magrane:
00:43:12
Choose a species you know little about, but that
Eric Magrane:
00:43:15
lives in your ecosystem. Learn everything you can about that
Eric Magrane:
00:43:19
species, then go find the species. Write what happens.
Marjorie Wonham:
00:43:24
[Translating Pablo Neruda] You ask me perhaps
Marjorie Wonham:
00:43:26
about the Alcyonarian plumes that tremble in the pure origins
Marjorie Wonham:
00:43:29
of the Southern tides, and about the polyps' crystalline
Marjorie Wonham:
00:43:33
construction you have no doubt considered one more question,
Marjorie Wonham:
00:43:36
posing it now.
Eric Magrane:
00:43:38
Find an urban ecotone. Stand there. Write a
Eric Magrane:
00:43:43
poem from the dual space.
Stephen Collis:
00:43:45
Walkers are sometimes in flight. Have orbits
Stephen Collis:
00:43:49
that do not recognize the idiocy of borders.
Eric Magrane:
00:43:53
Imagine a rise in sea level. How will that affect
Eric Magrane:
00:43:57
your elevation poems?
Hari Alluri:
00:43:59
My dears, burglary has always been the surest way
Hari Alluri:
00:44:05
to get the gods to notice and give chase. Language, sunlight,
Hari Alluri:
00:44:12
the list goes on.
Eric Magrane:
00:44:14
List everything that is natural around you. List
Eric Magrane:
00:44:18
everything that is not natural around you.
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:22
Sky is light grown over days, everything a
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:25
coast of open bane, commerce winds up a bray coarse grit
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:30
shoals dense blue green fluvial strips and the dark green delta
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:36
dust — probably spores — hung in the air. Black apple fist fur
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:46
fish and lumber. Gray deciduous claims heights all logged to
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:53
stumps.
Cecily Nicholson:
00:44:58
Conclaree has cht cht chp chp chp scoops blue ponded hard, to
Cecily Nicholson:
00:45:04
boat or hike you would fly, flap, soar and dart.
Stephen Collis:
00:45:08
So give me the light of stars that strives to
Stephen Collis:
00:45:11
but can't quite reach us. The one whose eyes are struck by the
Stephen Collis:
00:45:15
beam of darkness, the wings blinding, forms beating,
Stephen Collis:
00:45:19
piercing, all songs singing, fragile light spiralling from
Stephen Collis:
00:45:23
every wood and window. The time now is for pirates, and possibly
Stephen Collis:
00:45:28
warblers.
Hari Alluri:
00:45:29
And if I don't believe it when I say it,
Hari Alluri:
00:45:32
sunlight, language, fail me if you must. I know eventually you
Hari Alluri:
00:45:38
will. Divinity never forgets what's their's. The God's gave
Hari Alluri:
00:45:48
us healing willingly. We've been trying to return it ever since.
Hari Alluri:
00:45:56
Hand waving out front, shooing us away. They just won't take it
Hari Alluri:
00:46:02
back.
Eric Magrane:
00:46:04
Stand up and put your arms out. The length of
Eric Magrane:
00:46:09
your arms is the circle of the poem.
Cecily Nicholson:
00:46:12
We've learned to read the surface, like
Cecily Nicholson:
00:46:16
departed fluff and pollen husks. Phantom wings lighten up and fly
Cecily Nicholson:
00:46:21
away, wet and fall into soil, and a success of propagation
Cecily Nicholson:
00:46:25
rest and whetted loose trailing, roots dangle and venture.
David Abram:
00:46:31
In the absence of the written page — the book —
David Abram:
00:46:36
the land will be the visual mnemonic, and it will be
David Abram:
00:46:39
speaking stories steadily to us, in various sites in the
David Abram:
00:46:44
landscape, various powers potencies presences.
Robert Bringhurst:
00:46:48
Yeah sure, the world, the land is the
Robert Bringhurst:
00:46:51
original page, if you like. And it's not written because it's
Robert Bringhurst:
00:46:55
constantly writing itself and erasing itself, and correcting
Robert Bringhurst:
00:46:59
or at any rate changing itself.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:02
If the phenomena of the sunset is part
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:04
of the natural, unfeeling world, and I find myself to be as well,
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:08
then what applies to the sunset must in part apply to me. And if
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:11
the sunset is beautiful, then the world must be beautiful, and
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:14
I at least in part must be too. This revelation is present in
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:20
viewing any great miracle of the random universe that patiently
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:23
allows us to exist at the same moment as Northern Lights or
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:28
Spring. And if looking is a practice of discovery, then the
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:32
potential to find some similarity between ourselves and
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:35
the sunset should be enough to sustain some faith in living.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:41
So go now, and watch the setting sun. See its colors be devoured
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:47
by horizons and skylines — the sky emptied out. There is
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:52
nothing to prove. What gratitude, love and grace we
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:56
might feel in watching the sunset has no recipient to greet
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:47:59
it. And what good is a fiction of pure individuality when you
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:03
are loving the world across the chasm between yourself and
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:06
everything that is possible? The goings ons of chemicals in
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:09
rotations, the marks of physics in their indifferent routines.
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:15
We are so small in the glow of the setting sun. Nothing natural
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:21
burns purely for our benefit. So love those last drags of light,
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:28
and our love is reflected back — leading us into the quiet
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:32
miracle of loving and being loved, with nowhere to go but
Megan Gnanasihamany:
00:48:38
on.
Vicki Kelly:
00:48:40
And our responsibility, says Leroy
Vicki Kelly:
00:48:42
Little Bear, our responsibility is to give it back through
Vicki Kelly:
00:48:47
ceremony — that we're paying attention
Eric Magrane:
00:48:53
Fifteen — Write a poem that takes place over 4.5
Eric Magrane:
00:48:58
billion years. Thanks.
Chorus:
00:49:00
The feet are the link.
Chorus:
00:49:08
Between earth and the body. Begin there. Begin there.
Chorus:
00:49:22
The lungs are the link between body and air. Between body and
Chorus:
00:49:42
air.
Chorus:
00:49:42
The hands, these uprooted feet, are the means
Chorus:
00:49:50
Of our shaping and grasping. Clasp them.
Chorus:
00:49:57
The eyes are the hands of the head; its feet are the ears. Its
Chorus:
00:50:11
feet are the ears.
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:22
This episode was composed with the voices and
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:25
words of Michael Datura, Astrida Neimanis, Cosmo Sheldrake, Rex
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:30
Weyler, Robert Bringhurst, Jan Zwicky, David Abrahm, Megan
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:36
Gnanasihamany, Stephen Collis, Eric Magrane, Hari Alluri, Nadia
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:43
Chaney, Kaitlyn Purcell, Khari McClelland, Rita Wong, Jessica
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:48
Bebenek, Vicki Kelly, Mark Fettes, Marjorie Wonham, and
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:54
Cecily Nicholson.
Mendel Skulski:
00:50:56
And with music by Cosmo Sheldrake, Anne Bourne, Meredith
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:01
Buck, as arranged by Vanessa Richards, Jonathan Kawchuk, the
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:06
Time Zone collective, Emily Millard, Khari McClelland, Ruby
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:10
Singh, and Nathan Shubert. Field recordings by Julian Fisher, and
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:16
our theme song by Sunfish Moon Light.
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:21
A huge thank you to Erin Robinsong and Michael Datura,
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:24
without whom these conversations wouldn’t have taken place.
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:28
Thanks to Hollyhock for their generous hospitality and
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:31
support, and thank you to Juliette Bertoldo, Megan
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:34
Gnanasihamany, and Vanessa Richards for the help recording.
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:38
And thanks to you, for listening. Don’t forget to take
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:41
our survey, and to take care of yourself too.
Mendel Skulski:
00:51:46
You'll be hearing from us again soon.
