درباره این اپیزود
A Jackie Robinson musical with songs about out-of-shape spring training? A Bull Durham stage adaptation that got called a bunt? Before we get anywhere near the mound, we’re having a little fun with the fact that baseball somehow finds its way into every corner of American culture, even Broadway. We dig into the hits, the flops, and the wonderfully weird attempts to turn baseball stories into musical theater, including The First, a short-lived 1981 show built around Jackie Robinson’s life.
Then we lock into the main event: the July 2, 1963 matchup between the San Francisco Giants and the Milwaukee Braves, a game many fans still call the greatest pitching duel ever. We set the scene at breezy, cold Candlestick Park, talk about how the enlarged 1963 strike zone shaped the era, and explain why a random mid-season night could feel bigger than a postseason game.
From there, it’s all about two Hall of Famers going the distance. We compare Warren Spahn’s veteran brilliance and career milestones with Juan Marichal rise, his Dominican Republic roots, and that unforgettable high-kick delivery. The result is a 1-0 marathon that stays scoreless through nine, stretches into the 16th inning, and ends on a Willie Mays walk-off, with both starters finishing what they started. If you love baseball history, pitching mechanics, and the kind of trivia that makes you see the game differently, this one’s for you. Subscribe, share the show with a friend, and leave us a review with your pick for the greatest pitching duel of all time.
Email us at fungosandfastballs@gmail.com
یادداشت ها را نشان دهید 🔗
رونوشت 🔗
00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:02.959
Hello and welcome to Fungos and Fastballs.
00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:10.000
On today's episode, we discussed the greatest game ever pitched, as well as discussing baseball and the great white way.
00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:11.599
That's right, Broadway.
00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:13.519
Sounds like an interesting connection.
00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:15.279
Does it though, Jerry?
00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:16.559
I think so.
00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:20.000
And what is that lovely hat you're donning today?
00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:22.879
Yes, this is latest baseball purchase.
00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:25.280
My lovely wife Brooke and our producer here.
00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:33.679
Uh she bought me Reggie bars last week, and now this week, this is a new cap from friend of the show Tom Big Bat Vasalowicz.
00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:39.920
And he was of the baseball team, the New York Mutuals, that we highlighted way back in episode 25.
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:41.840
And this is the Mutuals cap.
00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:42.880
I I like it.
00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:43.439
I like it.
00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:44.880
The blue stockings.
00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:45.840
Or the green.
00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:46.960
I think it's green stockings.
00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:47.759
Green stockings.
00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:48.640
Yeah, yeah.
00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:50.960
And it's got their name on the back.
00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:51.439
Oh.
00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:52.399
Mutuals.
00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:53.200
Very nice.
00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:53.840
Very nice.
00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:54.320
Yeah.
00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:55.280
Thanks for noticing.
00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:56.240
No problem.
00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:59.920
Well, let's first get to the trivia question.
00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:05.120
Who was the first athlete to ever appear on a box of Wheaties?
00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:07.120
I'll give you a hint.
00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:08.719
It's a baseball player.
00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:11.680
It'd be pretty funny on a baseball podcast if it was a boxer.
00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:13.920
That would that would throw people, definitely.
00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:14.719
That would.
00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:16.400
The answer later in the show.
00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:21.200
On today's first pitch, we discussed musicals and baseball.
00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:22.159
I'm sorry.
00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:24.640
Did you say musicals and baseballs?
00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:25.439
I did.
00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:25.920
I did.
00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:26.239
Yes.
00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:26.560
Okay.
00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:28.719
Musicals.
00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:34.640
One would not think the Venn diagram intersection of baseball lovers and musical theater lovers is large.
00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:40.560
But growing up in and around New York City, uh, I can tell you it's certainly there's a few of us out here.
00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:48.319
And how about the Venn diagram of those musical lovers and baseball fans and fungos and fastball fans?
00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:49.920
How about that Venn diagram?
00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:53.200
Well, we're always hopeful it's ever expanding.
00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:55.599
Hey, trivia alert.
00:01:56.640 --> 00:01:59.359
A non-baseball one, but wonderfully nerdy.
00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:01.040
Someone out there will appreciate it.
00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:11.280
The term for the almond-shaped figure, where the two circles intersect, like in a Venn diagram, is called a vesicle pisis, which is Latin for fish bladder.
00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:14.719
You can also call it a mandela, which is Italian for almond.
00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:17.520
Ah, I'm gonna have to post a photo of that.
00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:18.159
Okay.
00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:20.080
Well, let's take a pause.
00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:24.319
Let's finish this sorbet you have given us and move on to our appetizer.
00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:26.560
You left me hanging with Broadway shows.
00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:28.800
Yeah, Broadway shows.
00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:40.560
So any topic book movie has almost certainly been made or conceived as a Broadway musical, from Spider-Man to the comic strip Doonsbury to the movies Rocky and Evil Dead.
00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:44.400
Brooke, I even heard they once did a musical, I think, on T.
00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:44.560
S.
00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:46.479
Elliott's poems about cats.
00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:48.879
Of course, cats, right?
00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:49.280
Yes.
00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:51.280
Memories, cats.
00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:54.960
Have you heard what's in development right now?
00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:56.159
What?
00:02:56.879 --> 00:03:03.039
New musical called Dare to Be Stupid by Colonel The Weird Al musical.
00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:03.439
Oh.
00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:06.000
It's a feature of his greatest hits.
00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:09.680
Not an opening date as of this recording, but it's in development.
00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:10.879
Awesome.
00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:11.840
I'd see that.
00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:13.360
I think it'll be a lot of laughs.
00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:17.680
How does the plot fit like a surgeon or I Lost on Jeopardy in there?
00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:19.280
I did see the movie about him.
00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:21.280
That was pretty good with good old Harry Potter in it.
00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:22.719
Yeah, Daniel Radcliffe.
00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:29.520
Well, because of all these topics, it's not surprising that there's been a few baseball-themed musicals out there, too.
00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:37.680
Now, even casual musical fans know about the uh one Damn Yankees, which won a Tony for Best Musical in 1956, was made into a film.
00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:39.520
It was a retelling of Faust.
00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:53.599
It centers on a long-suffering fan of the Washington Senators, who prior to becoming the Minnesota Twins in 1961 had all of one World Series back in 24 in their 60 years of existence.
00:03:53.759 --> 00:04:02.719
I always loved the play on the historic phrase about George Washington that the Washington Senators were, quote, first in war, first in peace, and last in the American League.
00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:10.159
Well, in Dam Yankees, the Senators fans make a deal with the devil for his soul so that Washington can beat the Yankees for the National League pennant.
00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:27.600
I bring this up because scheduled actually in 2027 next year, Dam Yankees is coming back to Broadway, produced interestingly by former Yankees owner George Steinberger's granddaughter, Haley Swindle, with a new production set during the New York Yankees 2000 championship run.
00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:36.879
But sometimes it's even more fascinating to investigate the lesser-known, unsuccessful plays, the weird failures of the screen.
00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:43.839
The most famous, of course, being a musical based on the Stephen King horror novel Carrie, which ran all of five shows on Broadway.
00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:48.879
Oh, it's because the dry cleaning was way too expensive and too much mopping after the prompt scene.
00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:49.439
I know.
00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:51.680
Yeah, give it matter and the night show.
00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:53.120
Too much cleanup.
00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:55.519
Well, baseball has a few of these odd shows.
00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:01.120
Like, did you know the classic baseball film Bull Durham was made into a musical in 2014?
00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:07.839
It had a run at the Paper Mill Playhouse in New Jersey, though the New York Times called the adaptation a bunt.
00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:09.279
I think that's an insult.
00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:15.759
Or what about National Pastime, a musical that was originally performed at the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York?
00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:28.959
It's a comedy about a struggling small radio station in Iowa who creates a fake, undefeated minor league baseball team, the Baker City Cougars, to boost ratings and broadcast fabricated baseball games on air.
00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:32.240
Comic and musical hijinks ensue.
00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:38.639
But one musical that only ran 31 performances on Broadway sounded kind of sounded cool to me.
00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:44.160
It was the 1981 musical The First, which was based on the life of Jackie Robinson.
00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:53.920
It actually got a number of good reviews and would get three Tony nominations, including Best Book, which is the non-sung dialogue of a musical, Best Actor and Best Director.
00:05:54.079 --> 00:06:02.639
But a big reason for its failure, it did not get a good review from the chief New York Times critic Frank Rich at the time, who was nicknamed The Butcher of Broadway.
00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:09.360
But Brooke, with songs like You Do Do Do It Good and There Are Days and There Are Days, how could it have failed?
00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:22.079
Possibly because there was also a song called Bloat, B-L-O-A-T, which is a lively number about the Dodgers returning to spring training all out of shape after the winter.
00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:24.079
I mean, yes, how could that fail?
00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:28.240
I tried to find the lyrics, but unfortunately, not online.
00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:31.279
It sounds like that should have been in the Weird Owl musical.
00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:42.720
Well, trivia alert, Jackie Robinson was played by none other than comedian David Alec Greer from TV's in Living Color and currently on the sitcom St.
00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:43.680
Dennis Medical.
00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:51.680
Initially, the hope was to hire for the role a pre-thriller Michael Jackson to play Jackie, but the price was too high.
00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:55.519
Now, Rachel Robinson, Jackie's widow, was brought in as a consultant.
00:06:55.759 --> 00:07:02.480
She was initially not keen on the idea, apparently saying, Can you imagine Jack singing and dancing on Broadway?
00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:04.319
But she came around to the project.
00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:11.279
Even Dodgers announcer Red Barber, then 73 years old, provided voiceovers for the musical's final scene.
00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:22.720
The show was never revived, and though a cast recording was planned, it was the day after opening night, and after poor reviews, the recording was canceled, so we can never hear David Allen Greer sing as Jackie.
00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:31.120
Well, a fun first pitch, to me at least, that reminds us that baseball pervades our culture and history, even to the Broadway stage.
00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:32.000
Let's start the episode.
00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:37.199
Hello and welcome to Fungos and Fastballs, the podcast of baseball history and trivia.
00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:39.120
I'm your host, Jerry Dines.
00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:42.480
Let's jump into today's episode.
00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:46.639
Our main topic today looks at a single game of baseball history.
00:07:46.720 --> 00:08:02.879
In fact, a game many call the greatest game ever pitched, the July 2nd, 1963 matchup between the San Francisco Giants and the Milwaukee Braves, and specifically their two starting pitchers at the time, Warren Spahn for the Braves and Juan Marischal for the Giants.
00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:15.759
I've always said, and I'm certainly not the only person, that despite 162 games in a major league season, it's incredible how a game in the middle of a long season can still have you on the edge of your seats and captivate you.
00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:21.519
And yes, back in 1963, there were still 162 games like today.
00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:28.240
The number of games had actually been increased at that time from 154 in the American League in 1961.
00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:31.439
In 62 a year later, the National League increased the number.
00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:39.279
So trivia alert, in the year 1961, that one year, the two different leagues played a different number of games.
00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:43.840
Well, on July 2nd, Milwaukee traveled west for a three-day series to San Francisco.
00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:53.519
The Giants at the time were third place in the National League, right before the All-Star Game, where both pitchers, Marachal and Spahn, had both made the National League All-Star roster.
00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:59.759
The Giants were 44 and 34, third place in the National League, but only one and a half games behind the first place Cardinals.
00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:05.840
The Braves not doing as well, but still solid, 38-38 in sixth place in the 10 team league.
00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:15.120
Ultimately, neither of these teams by season's end would compete with the first place LA Dodgers, but early in this season, who knew what would happen?
00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:27.120
Though it was a regular mid-season game, they put up a game just as exciting, if not more, than any other game that season, and that includes the Dodgers' four-game sweep of the Yankees in the 63 World Series.
00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:34.559
Now, since the two starters were the stars of the game, let's chat about these two pitchers who would both eventually make the Hall of Fame.
00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:42.080
Warren Spahn, who played 20 of his 21 seasons with the Braves, first in Boston, then moving with them to Milwaukee.
00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:48.799
In 1963, he was at the end of his career, 42 years old, playing only two seasons more.
00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:51.039
42 years old?
00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:52.000
Yeah.
00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:52.799
Wow.
00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:54.159
That's that's impressive.
00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:55.919
Yeah, old in baseball years.
00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:56.399
Exactly.
00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:57.679
Young for me.
00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:01.120
A personal trivia alert about Warren's.
00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:02.720
Wait, personal trivia?
00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:03.679
Is this a new thing now?
00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:04.559
What does this mean?
00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:05.519
Yes, the new cat.
00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:07.440
Personal trivia alert.
00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:09.919
What what is a personal trivia alert?
00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:12.960
It includes facts about your beloved host.
00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:14.000
Okay, go ahead.
00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:15.360
Tell me this and I'll understand.
00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:15.840
Okay.
00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.559
A personal trivia alert about Warren Spawn.
00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:24.080
We share the same birthday, April 23rd, along with William Shakespeare.
00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:24.559
Yes.
00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:27.360
Uh Brooke, Spawn, and I are also both lefties.
00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:31.279
Is he also as handsome and as bald as you are?
00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:33.120
Hey, people don't know I'm bald.
00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:34.320
I got this mutuals cap on.
00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:36.559
I got a full head of hair under here.
00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:42.559
Well, Spawn would go bald, like me, although who could tell because they always had caps on in those days.
00:10:42.879 --> 00:10:45.440
Handsome, well, I got a story about that later.
00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:46.080
Okay.
00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:50.559
In fact, a more important actual trivia alert.
00:10:51.519 --> 00:10:57.360
Spawn holds the record for the most career wins by a left-handed pitcher with 363.
00:10:57.440 --> 00:10:59.600
He's sixth on the list of total wins.
00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:12.960
Now, Spawn was born in Buffalo, New York, and started his major league career with the Boston Braves back in 1942 at age 20, sent down to the minors after four games after clashing with Casey Stengel, who was manager of the Braves at the time.
00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:13.919
Why?
00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:20.799
Well, Spawn refused to follow Stengel's order to throw at Dodgers pitcher Pee-Wee Reese in an exhibition game.
00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.960
The very next year Warren Spahn would enlist in the Army during World War II.
00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:28.399
He was awarded a Purple Heart, even saw action at the Battle of the Bulge.
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:29.600
So an American hero.
00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:33.279
After missing three seasons due to the war, he returned to the Braves.
00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:41.360
He would go on to have an amazing career, a 17-time All-Star, a Cy Young winner in 57, and a four-time National League strikeout leader.
00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:52.960
He would pitch two no-hitters and helped Milwaukee win the 1957 World Series over the Yankees, beating his former manager, Casey Stengel, and splitting the two games he started for the team.
00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:59.120
Now, Spahn certainly deserves his own episode, as does Marischal, will return, I am sure, to them in the future.
00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:07.759
So, Brooke, I don't know if you can technically check them off the list of Hall of Famers that we hope to cover in the entirety of the Fungos and Fastballs podcast.
00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:08.480
Oh, goodness.
00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:12.080
We're really not getting very far on that list at this rate, Jerry.
00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:13.840
I I think we've covered a lot.
00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:16.000
I mean, just in this, our first season?
00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:17.840
What, what, like 150, maybe?
00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:18.159
I don't know.
00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:19.519
That we've covered.
00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:22.559
Considering we've only had like 45 episodes.
00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:22.960
No.
00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:24.879
Yeah, maybe we can partially count him.
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:25.519
Sounds good.
00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:28.240
Well, a few fun facts about Spawn, if you will.
00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:33.039
Like Marischal, Spawn was known for a very high leg kick when pitching.
00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:37.440
Apparently he developed it because as a lefty, he couldn't watch the runners on first.
00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:45.120
So doing the kick prevented him from telegraphing, whether he was throwing to the plate or swinging around to throw the runner out at first.
00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:54.960
Spawn's nickname also was Hooks, not because of any type of pitch he threw, but because of the shape of his nose, which had once been broken by a baseball.
00:12:55.360 --> 00:13:02.799
During Spawn's last season in 1965, he actually played for the Mets under manager who else?
00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:04.080
Casey Stengel.
00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:10.480
And none other but Yogi Berra came out of retirement to catch four games for the Mets, one of them with Spawn.
00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:19.039
Now, Yogi, who was always one for a great quote, commented, I don't think we're the oldest battery, which is a pitcher-catcher combination, but we're certainly the ugliest.
00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:21.600
So that answers Brooks' question about being handsome.
00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:27.519
Well, Spahn's journey to baseball could not be more different than his opposite pitcher on the Giants, Juan Marischal.
00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:35.200
Marischal, then 25 years old, 17 years younger than Spahn in this game, was born in Laguna Verde in the Dominican Republic.
00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:39.519
He was not the first Dominican Major League player, trivia alert.
00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:45.440
That would be Ozzie Virgil Sr., who played for the Giants several years earlier in 1956.
00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:50.240
Marischal was close, maybe the fifth Dominican in the league.
00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:56.159
His father died when Juan was three.
00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:05.519
He and his friends would use baseballs that a local shoemaker created by sewing cloth around golf balls, they would find, and they used tree branches as bats.
00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:17.279
But, hey, you know, the cream rises to the top, and Marichal made his way from his home to the Dominican Professional Baseball League, eventually to the San Francisco Giants in 1960.
00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:21.519
And by this 1963 matchup, as I mentioned, he was only 25.
00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:25.840
Now, if Spawn was known for his high kick, Marischal even had a higher kick.
00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:27.440
Okay, I'm going to interrupt you here.
00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:28.000
Sure.
00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:31.840
Listeners, if you are watching this, you will see some images.
00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:36.399
If you're just listening, look this up, but also try to watch us on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple.
00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:42.320
I am not a physics expert, but both guys have incredibly odd ways to create momentum.
00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:46.480
Many pitchers today have a low leg lift.
00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:56.000
It goes maybe about the highest to their waist, allowing them to remain stable and also not to waste energy and gain momentum from their core, right?
00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:57.360
Not these guys.
00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:02.559
So I watch videos of Saban and Marichal and their interesting kicks.
00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:16.639
Saban uses a bent knee, then he kicks his leg out straight towards the plate, and it allows his hips and his upper body and he pushes off from his back leg to gain the momentum to create the ball speed.
00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:25.200
As for Marichelle, who is more about a finesse pitcher and accuracy over speed, he looks like a rock head.
00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:40.320
He kicks his foot all the way up over his head, straight out, not a bent knee, straight out up over his head, and he leans backwards with his back and his throwing hand is almost on the ground behind him.
00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:47.200
And then he has a whole forward motion where his hand comes over his head when he when he throws the ball.
00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:48.480
It's crazy to watch.
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:53.120
I don't know if I could ever hit against them because I would just be so, you know, what's going on?
00:15:53.360 --> 00:16:01.039
I know that a fellow player commented on Marischal that if another pitcher ever tried to imitate him, they'd fall over.
00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:07.360
I love watching the different styles and ways people people pitch, even today.
00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.679
But you're right, these two guys, they have quite the interesting wind-up.
00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:17.840
Mickey Mann once said about Marischell that you would first see the leg, then the glove, and finally the ball.
00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:21.440
So essentially gauging the pitch grip was almost impossible.
00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:30.559
Well Marischal became an idol to Latin American and especially Dominican pitchers, influencing many young pitchers uh after his career, most notably Pedro Martinez.
00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:31.120
Yeah.
00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:31.679
Good point.
00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:34.320
So, Jerry, let's start talking about the game.
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:41.919
But listeners, when we hear about this game, let's think about how these guys' legs must have felt after the end of the day.
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:44.960
I mean, definitely they had a week off from leg days.
00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:47.759
No, you never skip leg day.
00:16:48.559 --> 00:17:03.679
Well, let us get to that game, July 2nd, 1963, and to this matchup of the pitcher that won the most games in the 1950s, Warren Spahn, facing off against the pitcher that would win the most games in the 1960s, Marischell.
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:05.359
Hey, that's that's pretty good trivial.
00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:11.200
The two would face off against some of the great hitters in history in this game.
00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:20.960
The Giants had some hitters, uh, first baseman Orlando Cepeda and an outfield that included Willie Mays in center, Willie McCovey in left, and Felipe Ayu in right.
00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:25.920
Now the Braves had future Hall of Famers Hank Aaron and third baseman Eddie Matthews batting.
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:44.160
On the other hand, Candlestick Park in San Francisco was breezy, and though it was July, cool, which always favored pitchers not only because of the breeze, but the balls don't carry when they're hitting cooler weather as much, and the winds definitely affected the balls, especially for right-handed hitters.
00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:51.279
Do we have time to recollect on our experience in a July Giants or baseball game?
00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:52.400
I think so.
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:52.960
Okay.
00:17:53.359 --> 00:18:07.920
Listeners, uh, our family had just come from the blazing heat of Las Vegas, and we showed up in San Francisco for a night game in our shorts and our t-shirts, uh, only to get through about the fourth inning when the sun went down.
00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:16.720
We had to go and buy blankets, we had ski hats on, we were drinking hot chocolate, and we were just sitting there shivering.
00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:20.000
I had to take my little son, Justin, who you met in a previous episode.
00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:23.599
He was little, and I had to leave early because he was so cold.
00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:29.839
We froze that July night, and I think the temperatures were in like the low 50s with the breeze.
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:31.200
It was chilly.
00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:33.119
Yeah, noob mistake.
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:44.160
And in fact, we're Yankees fans, so we have the most Yankees gears, but after the Yankees, we have the most Giants things because again, as Brooks said, we bought a fleece.
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:45.519
We bought I bought this shirt.
00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:46.319
Long sleeve.
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:47.920
Long sleeve in July.
00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:51.279
Who knew it would be uh reappear in this episode?
00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:51.920
It was fake.
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:55.359
Three three blankets at this house, San Francisco Giants blankets.
00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:57.440
So very appropriate for this episode.
00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:12.880
Well, something else also favoring the pitcher, entering the 1963 season, the strike zone was enlarged from the knees to the shoulder level instead of the zone that was existed in the 1950s, which were the knees to the armpits.
00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:23.200
Now, this was in reaction to the home run spurt in the early 60s by people like Roger Maris, who broke Bayrew's single-season home run record in 1961.
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:30.160
After pitchers dominated throughout the decade of the 60s, the zone was corrected back into where it was in 1969.
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:34.160
Well, through nine innings of regulation, both pitchers were fine.
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:35.519
Nothing too incredible.
00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:39.200
Spawn of the Braves had only one strikeout, had given up five hits.
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:43.599
Marischal of the Giants had let up six hits with four strikeouts and three walks.
00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:46.319
But the game was scoreless through nine.
00:19:46.559 --> 00:20:00.480
Spahn himself, interestingly, remember, pitchers hit back then, got a double off Marischal in the seventh, where Marischal commented later that he had caught a break as the wind caught the ball and prevented it from going out of the park.
00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:05.759
So imagine it would have been funny if the pitcher had been the one to hit a home run with all these other hitters there.
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:08.000
Well, the game was almost over in the ninth inning, actually.
00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:12.559
Giant Willie McCovey hit a high ball over the right field foul pole.
00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:18.799
But first bait ump called it a foul, despite the protests of Giants players and grumbling of fans.
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:20.880
Of course, there were no video reviews back then.
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:22.559
So on to extra innings.
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:25.039
Neither manager pulled their pitchers.
00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:29.039
The game continued to remain scoreless until the 16th.
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:34.319
I looked up the pitch count at the end of the ninth, but back then they didn't do pitch count per innings.
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:35.519
They only did it per game.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:38.720
So we really don't know how many pitches were thrown at this point in the game.
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:43.519
But I did read the Giants' manager kept asking Marischell, you know, do you want to come out?
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:45.599
Do you want to come out to save his arm?
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:54.480
And Marischell said, looking over at Spawn, he's 42, I'm 25, and you can't take me out until that man's not pitching.
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:55.839
A little pride there.
00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:56.880
Just a bit.
00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:06.559
Well, finally, in the bottom of the 16th, Warren Spawn threw a screwball to Willie Mays that hung a bit too much, didn't break, and Mays hit a walk-off homer.
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:08.880
The Giants won 1-0.
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:15.920
Overall, Spawn had pitched 201 pitches, amazingly with only one walk, and it was an intentional walk.
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:23.519
Marischal had thrown 227 pitches for a combined pitch count in the game of 428 pitches.
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:26.400
The two starters stayed in the entire game.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:31.599
The game lasted for four hours, 10 minutes, finishing the next morning at 1220 a.m.
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.519
Coming up actually on the 1250 curfew that Candlestick Park had at the time.
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:39.920
Gosh, even today, the pitchers, what, they throw about a hundred pitches and you're worried.
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:40.559
Get them out.
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:41.039
Yeah.
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.599
Now, you know, you're again they're not torquing their arm, they're not throwing his arm, but that's still a lot of pitches.
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:46.880
16 innings.
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:48.480
Hey, trivia alert.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:55.519
Only one time since that game has a pitcher lasted as long as these two future Hall of Famers.
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:56.720
That was in 1967.
00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.839
Gaylord Perry pitched 16 innings of a 2019.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.279
Only one inning game.
00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:03.759
No one has pitched as many innings since.
00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:14.079
And and comparing those two pitchers to today's pitchers, this year, for example, only 20 pitchers have uh pitched complete games.
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:20.960
And of the elite pitchers in general, maybe maybe they might only have one complete game per season.
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:28.640
Whereas Spawn had 57% of his 665 games were completed games.
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:38.160
So trivia alert listeners, look, I get to do my own trivia alert.
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:39.599
But not a personal trivia.
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:40.640
No, not a personal.
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:54.960
After 1955, when pitchers were not really expected to complete games, Marischell was one pitcher with 100 or more starts and with 50% completed games.
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:56.319
Who is the other?
00:22:57.519 --> 00:22:59.200
I'm expecting Jerry to answer this.
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:00.880
I guess I have to answer it myself.
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:01.920
You can answer it.
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:02.400
I know that.
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:04.240
It's the great Bob Gibson.
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:06.559
See, I just assume people don't know these things.
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:08.160
So maybe everyone's like, duh.
00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:09.680
No, that's a that's a good question.
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:11.279
And Bob Gibson, ooh, my favorite.
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:12.160
Thank you, thank you.
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:19.359
And your Gaylord Perry that you just mentioned is on this list behind Ferguson Jenkins, who has the highest percentage.
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:20.480
I just love these two names.
00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:23.759
That's why I had to bring them both up, Gaylord and Ferguson.
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:26.000
Great trivia.
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:26.640
Thank you.
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:30.319
Well, after the game, Spawn drank beer with his teammates in the clubhouse.
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:37.440
Marachal took a hot shower and went home to bed, commenting on the marathon, oh my back, but tonight was beautiful.
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:46.559
Now it's crazy to think that those Titans in this game going so long, throwing so many pitches in a yet a random mid-season game.
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:54.319
Neither team would make the World Series that year, and neither of these greats would win the Cy Young that year, it would be won by Sandy Koufax.
00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:56.319
Now, one last trivia alert.
00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:57.359
We got a lot of them today.
00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:05.599
From 1956 to 1966, there was only one Csy Young given per season, whereas after that there were one for each league.
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:09.119
The Csy Young for each league started in 67.
00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:11.839
Warren Spahn did win the Cy Young in 57.
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:22.400
Now, though Juan Marischal won the most games of any pitcher in the 60s, finished top 10 in ERA seven consecutive years, even leading the league in ERA in 1969.
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:24.240
He would never win the Cy Young.
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:26.480
But of course, the 60s, what a decade of pitchers.
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:31.200
You mentioned some of the pitchers already, including Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale.
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:36.079
Well, great episode today, looking into one of baseball's most historic games.
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:38.319
Now let's get back to the trivia question.
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:41.839
Who was that first athlete to appear on a Wheaties box?
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.119
Well, it was on the back of the box, way back in 1934.
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:51.359
Athletes were not featured on the front cover until Olympic pole vaulter Bob Richards in 1958.
00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:55.119
But way back in 1934, the first athlete on a Wheaties box?
00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:56.160
Lou Gehrig.
00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:57.119
Interesting.
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:02.559
And that box sold for$7,680 at an auction.
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:05.359
Are you buying me an original Wheaties box too?
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:06.000
Not yet.
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:07.599
I am a big fan of Lou Gehrig.
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:08.559
I know you are.
00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:09.920
Well, great show today.
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:18.640
Join us next week as we chat with Josh Gregoire, a college baseball closer, to get a personal look inside the bullpen and what that's like.
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.119
I want to once again thank my producer, Brooke.
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:21.759
You're welcome.
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:26.160
And shout out to our listeners in Boardman, Oregon, the home of the Riverside Pirates.
00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:27.039
Go Pirates.
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:28.480
We appreciate you.
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:36.480
And any of our listeners can email us at fungosandfastballs at gmail.com, comments, show ideas, just to say hi.
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:38.880
And we're always happy you're listening and watching.
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:40.640
Don't forget to subscribe to the show.
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:41.599
Leave some comments.
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:42.160
We love them.
00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:46.720
Heading back to the locker room, this is Jerry Dynes and Fungos and Fastballs.