The Dr. Z: Stop over-educating your patients. You are confusing them into failure. Hi listeners, functional medicine 2.0 here. I'm Dr. Z. Welcome back. So excited to be here with you today. And I know what you're thinking. Your patients fell off the protocol or they're not compliant and they're not listening. And nope, that's not the case. we're going to unpack that today. I want to welcome Dr. Beth. Dr. Beth, can you just say hi to listeners and give them a quick intro?
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, hi, I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm from Minnesota, so you might hear that come out and how I talk. ⁓ Yeah, very quick background. I was an athlete in high school and college, went to graduate school, went to chiropractic school, also got licensed in acupuncture Chinese medicine. And then I do functional medicine ⁓ focused on women's hormones and health with Eastern medicine background put in there. So, yeah.
The Dr. Z: I love it. Welcome. My husband's from Minnesota, so I can hear it. ⁓ No, you can't. It's awesome though. Welcome. I'm so glad you're here. So one of the things we talk a lot about with our listeners is functional medicine 1.0 versus functional medicine 2.0. I was trained in functional medicine 1.0, which was an improvement on traditional medicine because we were focused on getting to the root cause. So that was great.
Dr. Beth Westie: I can't hide it.
The Dr. Z: But the problem with FM 1.0 is then that's it. And it didn't talk about what you do with the patient on Monday and how to really get results and all of these other things. So functional medicine 2.0 is really focused on being able to make clear decisions, being able to get patient outcomes, not just like wow them with some complex tests, but what does it take to create an environment where they can succeed? So we're not just saying, they weren't compliant. Right? If they can't follow the plan, that's a system failure. And then also, you know, the third thing we really look at is, you know, FM 1.0 was all about being a lone practitioner, the lone wolf. And 2.0 is really look at building a team and what does it take to run a successful practice. So I know you've done this on many levels. Like, you know, what do you sort of see as far as this over-educating of patients and you know, having them confused or so they're overwhelmed. They don't even know where to start.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, ⁓ this is, and I'm so glad we're talking about this because there's so many practitioners out there that are fantastic, brilliant, right? And have all the best intentions to help people, but it's so much so out there and it's almost like they get in their own way to really, I'll just say it like be as successful and help as many people as they can. And I started in this space doing this over a decade ago. You know, and I was just like you said, like a one woman show, right? Like I was the only doc and now I have a team of one, two, three, four other docs ⁓ that work with me. And my favorite thing about this is that I'll use like gut as an example is I love working with the gut and diving into that. But I have a practitioner on my team who like she's better at it than I am, you know, I'm good at it.
The Dr. Z: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Beth Westie: she's better. So I funnel everybody to her, you know, and it's like hiring all stars and really letting those individuals shine so that if there is an issue that somebody has, you get to like use everybody and all their skills and talents to help and not, you know, I can do that too. Yeah, I can do that too. I can take somebody through a GI protocol and, you know, test and retest and all that stuff. For sure, right? But like my sweet spot, you know, is over here. So the thing I keep in mind, which is something somebody said to me a long time ago, inch wide, mile deep, you know, inch wide, mile deep. And if you can get yourself to, and before I was doing everything, right? But I have been narrowing, narrowing, narrowing, narrowing, inch wide, mile deep, inch wide, mile deep. And then having other people join that are also inch wide, mile deep.
The Dr. Z: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Beth Westie: And that's what helps build such a well-rounded team and it's best outcomes for everybody. You know what I mean? Like, yeah,
The Dr. Z: I love that. How, since you've been doing it for decade, how have your care plans evolved over the last 10 years? I started about the same time in functional medicine. I've been doing this like almost 30 years now, but for my first functional medicine practice was, yeah, 10 years, 2016. So when I think of how I started, I was definitely the one woman show there. Party of one, this is how I referred to it.
Dr. Beth Westie: Mm-hmm
The Dr. Z: but when I think about what I did then versus what do now, ⁓ mean, obviously I know so much more now and I have more tools and team to me for sure. But also like, I think in the beginning, I mean, just full disclosure, I'm going to be honest. It was like, can I figure this out? And that was the focus. Could I get to the root cause? What the heck was going on? And that of course is still important, but that like the main focus. Then very quickly I learned, ⁓ wait a minute. That's sort of nothing if people don't do things. Now I have to figure out how do I get them to do things and how do I build a plan that's going to work for them and their capacity, like where they're at. I mean, I could align up 10 women with what seems like the same scenario, same age, similar tests, and I couldn't give them all the same plan. And I didn't find enough people talking about that. I don't know. What do you think, Dr. Beth? Have you seen that too?
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, yes, yes. I really noticed, I mean, at the beginning, I was so over eager to... Oh, this is an issue. Let's work with this. Let's do this. Let's do, like, tackle it all. All of it, right at the beginning, you know. Fix everything, right? And it's like, that's not how that works. It was too much. You know?
The Dr. Z: Yep. ⁓
Dr. Beth Westie: I have a tendency to be, I get so pumped about stuff or I, my biggest thing is I've learned to, I'll call it reign myself in more to meet people where they're at and then be like, okay, we're starting here. Here's the top things. Here's the biggest fires that we got to put out. Like this other thing. Yes, it's an issue, but you know, we're going to pace ourselves, right? And, tortoise versus the hare, right? We've got to be the tortoise getting out of the gate, tackling everything. giving people huge protocols, telling them to shift their entire life upside down, go gluten free, dairy free, stop eating sugar, da-da-da-da, and they're like, they can't keep it up beyond a week because it's too much, right?
The Dr. Z: Yeah, when you go to Thanksgiving, I want you to just bring a thermos and that's what you're going to eat from.
Dr. Beth Westie: Right? And it doesn't help. it really is learning. I want to say this. It was like learning more about human behavior, you know? And marrying the two of like, okay, this is the best thing for them, but here's human behavior. How can we put that in the middle to get that middle ground and then drip out the information to people so that it's not
The Dr. Z: Yes.
Dr. Beth Westie: overwhelming mentally, but we're giving them enough so that they understand the why behind the what. And especially for women and the way women's brains work. And I work with women, right? I work with women. So women need to understand the why behind the what in order to really dedicate. If you're just saying, can I do this thing? Yes.
The Dr. Z: Yeah. And to start seeing results, like small, even small wins before we get a big one, that's okay, but something. I always tell practitioners, listen, you actually operate at a higher standard because I get a lot of hospitalists too, that they leave the hospital great, or they left private practice, but it was like a medical group. So it's completely different world when all of a sudden they own their own business. It's a cash pay practice. It's not insurance. Right. so I said, listen, not only do you have this practitioner patient relationship and the standard you have to maintain there, but now you have business owner customer, they're a consumer. So if you, they're going to vote with their dollars. If you can't deliver and do a good job, they're going to take that and go elsewhere. And so actually you have two standards now to operate. ⁓ and that awareness and teaching that what that means. really, I feel has changed a lot of things and helped people to understand, okay, like it's not enough just to say, I gave them the answers, right? And that's it. If they didn't do it, it's on them. And so the other thing I say, and you let me know what you think about this, but I say, ⁓ you know, the root cause is actually now the easy part. I mean, at least for us, we've been working on it. We teach it, right? We get it. We have the tools to get to the root cause. So yay. still wow the patient, but that's the easy part for us as practitioners. The hard part now ⁓ how do you get them to do the things they have to do to start seeing results? And that's where the real medicine is, is what does it take? And I ⁓ I will use the same tricks and tools and tips and ⁓ that, you know, here and there, but I'm really finding like personalized medicine and solutions and customizing it to what that person needs.
Dr. Beth Westie: Hmm?
The Dr. Z: ⁓ is very individual and capacity is something I'll give you an example. This was actually a gentleman. I've mentioned him before, but when he came in, it was a stretch for he and his wife to do a functional medicine and out of pocket cash, you know, pay. ⁓ I wanted award results for them, right? ⁓ And had metabolic concerns. And so I was like, we're going to reverse these numbers. We're going to do all these things and blah, blah.
Dr. Beth Westie: Okay, yeah.
The Dr. Z: And just the sweetest little old man, and he was like, well, I just want to stop eating Taco Bell for lunch. Like that was where his first piece of awareness was. And so I very quickly learned, this was early in practice that, okay, I can have my goals, but I need to align myself to what their goals are. What did they need first? And then if we can hit that, we win some trust to then go to the next goal, right? But it was, yeah.
Dr. Beth Westie: the meeting people where they're at and ⁓ the biggest thing think and again, because I work with women, biggest, I will say struggle that ⁓ I see women face is the capacity to fit in or they're like, I wanna do these things or I know I need to get up in the morning and... get sunlight and activity and that's helpful for my energy levels. But they end up starting their day running and they're like running after kids, running after dogs, doing all this stuff where they're like, I don't get a moment to myself. So they run out of time and specific recommendations for people where it's like, yeah, they can't, you you're giving them, yes, this is the best case scenario for them to follow. This would be a perfect schedule, a perfect protocol, a perfect whatever. but they don't have the ability to follow through on any of that. You know what I mean? Versus saying, okay, what is this person's life like to put some things in there that are actually gonna make a difference? The less is more. Yeah, yeah.
The Dr. Z: ⁓ 100%. 100%. And, you know, we talk a lot. I've been talking about it for a while, but I feel like I'm just shouting it out all the time this year is what I call biohacking human behavior. And so that's really something we teach in FM 2.0 is how do you biohack human behavior? And your toughest cases are your best teachers. I remember one patient where honestly,
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah.
The Dr. Z: I gotta tell you, like, it's a case review I've shared before because I solved this, like, rare medical thing for her and it was so exciting. You know how we love solving the medical mystery? She couldn't give a hoot. She did not care at all. It didn't mean anything to her. She didn't understand it. And she literally said, I'm so overwhelmed. I need you to, I don't even want to go in the portal. I need you to send me an email with one thing in 18-point font. I was like, all right.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yes.
The Dr. Z: That's how we need to do it. That's how we're going to do it. so, and so sometimes those really challenging cases, I remember a patient who was so hypersensitive, you couldn't even like give like some natural supplement you had used a million times before you knew it was great. She'd have to like open it up, put her finger in it, dip it on her tongue. That's it. And so it was these challenging scenarios or, you know, the mom who drags in the teenager and the teenager doesn't want to be there or
Dr. Beth Westie: Yes. Yeah.
The Dr. Z: You know, all these scenarios, oh my gosh, or the kid, yeah, I saw a lot of peeds too. And so the kid who, you know, needs a change, you know, has a true gluten allergy and the parents falling, you know, falling apart, they're like a puddle on the floor. What am I going to do without toast and chicken fingers, you know? And so these types of lessons have really become invaluable and baked into our teachings now.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
The Dr. Z: I think especially because I even I would say, ⁓ me know your thoughts, Dr. Beth, but even from a decade ago, I can see the difference, ⁓ in the female patients coming in, their stress levels. ⁓ And that impacts their capacity to do anything. They know they need it. It's not a lack of information. ⁓ might need and they do those specific answers from you. But as far as like general health, wellness, things that are going wrong, they know something's wrong. That's why they're there. And they might even see some people doing things and that's working better for them, but they can't figure out how to make the change for themselves. And just their, their capacity to start with, they're so rung out that sometimes in those kinds of cases, we don't take anything away. We don't restrict anything. We don't do anything hard. We actually start with like taking the stress off their shoulders because they're prepared. They're prepared for the meal plan that's going to cut out half their pantry, right? And they're just thinking, I don't even know how I can handle it. I know I'm fast food on the way home. And so what we do is we actually start with maybe adding one nice thing. Like that sometimes it has to be like that. I don't know. Have you noticed a change the last decade?
Dr. Beth Westie: Huge change. Huge change. And I honestly think some of this has to do with just how the world has been in the last five years going through pandemic stuff and everything else, right? Like I was one, I mean, I have three kids and they were all in elementary or middle school, you know, during that timeframe. Really, really difficult to navigate life, work, school, family.
The Dr. Z: Thank
Dr. Beth Westie: Events whatever right it was difficult for everybody and I really feel like Women got through that time frame and then I've been working really hard to get their lives I don't want to say back on track, but to feel normal, but it's like we didn't give ourselves time to ⁓ Decompress from that. It's like hit the ground running. I got to make up this for the kids They missed this season. They missed this with school. They didn't get to do XYZ I'm gonna make it up for them and women You know, we put everybody else first, right? So it's so hard to finally realize, holy bananas, I am completely burned out. I am a crispy pile of ash. I need to do something for me. I can't function, right? It's only when you can't get to your goals, accomplish your tasks for the day, do women actually stop and say, ⁓ OK, something's wrong here. ⁓
The Dr. Z: 100%. Yes. And we didn't get Nirvana on the other side either. So there was no real break between wars and headlines and stress and politics and economics. And people have just absolutely been wrung out. And I just am seeing it and feeling it differently. There's a lot of changes we made in practice and business and self-care because of it. And I'll just give a personal story. I live with a primary immunodeficiency. It's not a piece of cake. I used to be on social security disability, told I'd never work again, 22 hours a day in bed. It was just hell, right? And it was not the life I wanted. So that's how I found functional medicine. And then once I learned it, I wanted to share it with everyone, right? Now, this is an incurable thing. It doesn't magically go away. It doesn't stop me from trying, but it doesn't magically go away. And so I had to figure out, you know, how to live with this and still be productive.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah.
The Dr. Z: do the things I wanted to do. And so that's been great. I've managed that. I'm really good. Why am I saying all this? I'm really good at like managing rest and self care. And still I had to do this extra trip. I don't like to travel so much, like getting on a plane. I love it when people come see me, but me getting on a plane and I had to get on this extra plane ride. They were too close together right at the end of the year. And I was just like, ⁓ I can't believe I have to do, it was to sign something in person, you know? I was like, I can't believe I have to do this. It was just a push I didn't need to have. And I really felt that. And so then when I came to St. Croix, which I love being here, I'm so excited. But when I came, I didn't even realize the impact of the stress. Even though I know this, I teach this, I'm mindful of it. We caught a cold, you know, and it was like we had been fighting them all. But there we were in the Miami airport with apparently all of the United States traveling at the same time.
Dr. Beth Westie: Mmm. Right? No.
The Dr. Z: And so we caught a cold and we get here and it's peaceful and it's quiet and I could see the ocean and I have never slept so much in my life. Seriously, Dr. Beth, it was crazy. Like I slept 11 hours twice. I haven't done that since I was a teenager and I was like, wow, this is what it feels like when that stress creeps up on you and you didn't realize it and it taps your capacity. And this is what it feels like to be restorative. Because we were just in this position where it was like, well, all right, we feel tired. We're going to go back to sleep. And I was like, are we going to wake up? And it wasn't just me. It was my husband too. So I couldn't just say, it was me or whatever. It got both of us. But first of all, how infrequently do people get rest? And then how restorative is it on the other side?
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. Right.
The Dr. Z: I just wanted to share that because it literally just happened. And even with all this knowledge, it caught me by surprise. ⁓ I couldn't make myself do some new protocol or something in that timeframe.
Dr. Beth Westie: Right, right. It's not that we don't want to be functioning or whatever. It's like it almost has to get to a point where you're behind and you have to catch up. And that's just, I mean, that's the same thing I've seen with so many women recently is in the last couple of years, I'll say, women are saying things like, yeah, well, I was really stressed and I'm... Oh, no, I'm much better now. And it's like, yeah, but your body is still reacting as if you're in that stress. You didn't do anything to turn off that mechanism. You've still been sprinting 100 miles an hour, sun up to sun down, you know, to keep things going for everybody else. And that's what your body is showing. Of course you're struggling. Of course you're not sleeping well and exhausted all the time and your hair's falling out and all, you know, et cetera, et cetera. It's, of course. So.
The Dr. Z: Yes. I love that you say that because you could, like mentioning the last five years and the pandemic and politics and economics, all those challenges, you could psychologically be on the other side or mentally be on the other side. But if your body hasn't had that recovery yet, forget it. And that I just think is a perfect ⁓ explanation of what I literally just went through. But during that like 10-day time period.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. Yeah? Yeah?
The Dr. Z: There were new things I wanted to do, so I'm in a new location. Okay, I'm going to do this new protocol. I could not have done something new to save my life. There was no way. I know the plan. I know the answers. It was like, nope, I just have to recognize the capacity where it's at. As soon as I gave myself a break with that, ⁓ the relief was ⁓ tremendous. and then allow myself to get to a point where I was ready ⁓ to face the thing head on. And so, so that's what I call capacity. And if you recognize that with your ⁓ patients, cause sometimes the time they get to you, they've been through a lot of other people or they've been broken down a bit and their capacity might be challenged. ⁓ And to recognize with them doesn't mean you're not doing your job. It means you're doing the exact right job.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah.
The Dr. Z: You might have to slowly nurse them along as we build the capacity back before we're ready to go tackle the thing.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, yeah. It makes me think of, I don't the name of one specifically, but 200 years ago, 150 years ago, ⁓ They ⁓ people, ⁓ would, ⁓ they're exhausted, they're suffering from exhaustion, and they would go to this seaside facility, medical facility, where they would get massaged every day and have bone broth. They'd sip bone broth and tea and like sit and look at the ocean. And that was their treatment plan. You know I'm talking about? The... Yeah, right? I was like, bring those, how come those are not everywhere right now? That was the medical treatment. Like they were like, oh, this person is, you know, they need this seaside rest. And that's what they did. Yes, yes. They were doing that hundreds of years ago. Like, how is this, how is this not more common that this is...
The Dr. Z: Sounds great. Thank I think that's literally what we just witnessed. and in the- Yeah.
Dr. Beth Westie: recommended as a viable form of treatment for people that produces really positive results, because it does. It does, you
The Dr. Z: I think
Dr. Beth Westie: know?
The Dr. Z: the sad reason is either it's economics or busyness, but people don't feel like they're allowed to take the break. And what I've been trying to teach because I've had the bad things happen is that you have to be more in tune with your body and dial in the break. Otherwise it will keep shouting and shouting and shouting. If you don't listen at some point, it forces the break. And since I had that happen in, I guess, 2013, it was like, oh, I don't
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
The Dr. Z: ever want to be in that situation again. so starting to learn to listen better and faster so you can always be in the decisive role instead of your body saying, I'm going to take over because you're just not listening. Yeah. ⁓
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, yeah. The one thing that this something that I struggled with myself as well ⁓ and that can see and recognize in the women that I work with ⁓ and you when we talk about like again as a provider you know ⁓ helping people, people and all of that other stuff to really hone in on this piece of it you know people may not need more education they don't need to know how cells work exactly right they need to understand that, you've been living a lifestyle that's been really harsh and the way you've been going about it is also not getting you to the finish line. So you need to shift and change this. I have, I mean, I was an athlete, high school, college, right? And ⁓ was so, I mean, that was my world. You know, I played volleyball and I mean, I played with broken fingers, fractured feet, you know, all this stuff, injuries. You just push through it. tape it up, get back out there. You know what I mean? And there's so much of my life since then that I have had to really force myself or I have other people that have to tell me, hey, you're not okay. You should go see someone about this. I'm like, it's fine, I'm fine. I can push through this. You shouldn't. You shouldn't. My husband does this all the time with me. This was almost four years ago.
The Dr. Z: Yes. Yeah.
Dr. Beth Westie: I got bit by a brown recluse spider and I was like in bed suffering for days. Huge mark on my leg, all this stuff. And my husband was like, was feverish, sweating, couldn't eat, couldn't move. And he's like, you need to go to the hospital. I was like, shh, don't talk to me. It's fine, I'll be better tomorrow. And he had to drive me to the hospital. And they were like, how long is this?
The Dr. Z: no, yeah.
Dr. Beth Westie: I was like, I don't know, like three or four days. They're like, oh my god. I had to stay in the hospital because it was so bad. It's not funny. It's not funny. I know. But this is, this is the same thing, right? Yeah, like it's so hard when you've gone through so many things or you push yourself or you think, I can keep going, I can keep going. And I feel like women get worn down.
The Dr. Z: I know. God. Hard lessons.
Dr. Beth Westie: or to a point where you're like, I gotta be tougher than this. I can outdo this. And that's not what it's about. It's like stopping, realizing, recognizing. And like I said, I have other people in my life that help me to see when I am not okay, because I have a hard time recognizing it for myself. So I've worked with women that they have their husbands on consult calls with them, or their sisters or their mothers, because they're like, I have bad brain fog and I can't remember everything.
The Dr. Z: They're not in touch with it.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, yeah, and that is also something where I feel like provides women, especially with such a better outcome when they have a supportive network behind them, you know? So that's that's a.
The Dr. Z: Well, and you have to like learn this skill. So you probably got it from one of your parents. I got it from my mom, you know, the just push through, ignore it, like disconnect from your body type thing. And so I wanted to raise my kid differently, ⁓ which let me tell you, doesn't feel like an advantage when they're younger, because then you've got a kid, like if you want to say, just suck it up and go with it, nope, you've got a kid who's going to be able to voice it. I don't feel like it. This doesn't feel good. No. And then you have to respect it because you're the one who taught him.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. ⁓ my god.
The Dr. Z: how to do that, but they're gonna be so much better as an adult. So I get why the parent was like, suck it up, go, go, go, right? ⁓ But yes, that can really, really backfire. That was what I was taught. And it can backfire when you don't take the break or get the help that you need. ⁓ I think the hard thing right now that we have to recognize with our patients is that If we focus just on getting the root cause, like solving the mystery and then telling them, giving them this amazing plan and what they should do, that a lot of times, if we don't see their capacity or where they're at first, then they take it as, this is just another area I'm failing. This is another thing I can't do because why didn't I figure this out before? And of course she's telling me this and you know, it's like where they're wearing a hair shirt or whipping themselves. And it's like, okay.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah.
The Dr. Z: You know, I have to like really look at who's in front of me and what would best serve them, meet them where they are, but also like maybe they need to be built up a little bit. Maybe they need to breathe a little bit. Maybe they need to know that they're okay. Maybe they need to hear from me that yes, we want to do these things. It's going to be better for your health. Here's why you haven't been able to do them. It's not really your fault. It's this environment that you're living in and this lifestyle you've created.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. Yeah.
The Dr. Z: And there's no way, this is not a willpower thing, right? There's no way you could succeed if we don't reconstruct a new life for you. And I feel like this is something I want to teach so much in FM2 because I went through that. I was the patient and the life sucked and it was like, I don't want that anymore. And so how was I going to create a life that would allow me what I wanted, but also support me, right?
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then having people around you also understand that. ⁓ There's a quote that pops into my head as you were talking and I, ⁓ ugh, I say Tony Robbins says this, but I can't remember exactly, so I might not get the source correct here, but it says, people will ⁓ overestimate what can do in 30 days and underestimate what they can accomplish in a year. ⁓ And yeah, often in these cases especially, you know,
The Dr. Z: ⁓ I like that.
Dr. Beth Westie: to think about, listen, you ended up, you're a hot mess express right now. Nothing's gonna get better overnight. The body takes time to heal. Talking about, you can only rebuild cells at this pace and the gut lining can heal at this pace or the muscle tissue grows at this rate for the female body. Like that's what it is. So we, looking out farther, like, ⁓ look at, you know, six months from now or something. I just had a conversation the other day with someone where, We're talking about Halloween because last Halloween, she was so exhausted, could not trick or treat with her young kids. She had to cut out and go home after 30 minutes. And she was on the couch. ⁓ And she felt bad. so, you know, that's, hey, ⁓ you've got this. doing this. Like remember, what's one of your big goals? Like come this next Halloween. You love this event and holiday and you like going out trick or treating. you're gonna be out there as long as the kids can be out there. Just that bigger 30,000 foot view, we get so caught up in the day to day, minute to minute, working through some of the tough parts of going through initial protocols and then handling it in their life. it's that, it's really, call it future pacing, right? Out where you can be and think about six months or a year from now, how your life is gonna be different and getting that visual input.
The Dr. Z: I love that.
Dr. Beth Westie: to be like this is your healthiest self and we're working towards that and you absolutely can do that ⁓ to keep it going, you know, cause it is tough. It is really tough to.
The Dr. Z: And I love that that's very personalized for her, which is so important. There's gotta be some why and something specific. So I feel like we could talk about this forever. We'll have to come back and do some more on it. But practitioners who are listening, make sure you're not overwhelming your patients. Are you over-educating them to serve them or to serve yourself or soothe yourself or cover up with some anxiety? They don't need to understand everything immediately.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. Yeah.
The Dr. Z: I mean, they need to understand the next action they're going to take. They need to feel that win. So we're not anti-education, but it is anti-overload. So don't confuse your patients into failure. Dr. Beth, thanks for being here with us and practitioners. We'll see you next week.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, hi, I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm from Minnesota, so you might hear that come out and how I talk. ⁓ Yeah, very quick background. I was an athlete in high school and college, went to graduate school, went to chiropractic school, also got licensed in acupuncture Chinese medicine. And then I do functional medicine ⁓ focused on women's hormones and health with Eastern medicine background put in there. So, yeah.
The Dr. Z: I love it. Welcome. My husband's from Minnesota, so I can hear it. ⁓ No, you can't. It's awesome though. Welcome. I'm so glad you're here. So one of the things we talk a lot about with our listeners is functional medicine 1.0 versus functional medicine 2.0. I was trained in functional medicine 1.0, which was an improvement on traditional medicine because we were focused on getting to the root cause. So that was great.
Dr. Beth Westie: I can't hide it.
The Dr. Z: But the problem with FM 1.0 is then that's it. And it didn't talk about what you do with the patient on Monday and how to really get results and all of these other things. So functional medicine 2.0 is really focused on being able to make clear decisions, being able to get patient outcomes, not just like wow them with some complex tests, but what does it take to create an environment where they can succeed? So we're not just saying, they weren't compliant. Right? If they can't follow the plan, that's a system failure. And then also, you know, the third thing we really look at is, you know, FM 1.0 was all about being a lone practitioner, the lone wolf. And 2.0 is really look at building a team and what does it take to run a successful practice. So I know you've done this on many levels. Like, you know, what do you sort of see as far as this over-educating of patients and you know, having them confused or so they're overwhelmed. They don't even know where to start.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, ⁓ this is, and I'm so glad we're talking about this because there's so many practitioners out there that are fantastic, brilliant, right? And have all the best intentions to help people, but it's so much so out there and it's almost like they get in their own way to really, I'll just say it like be as successful and help as many people as they can. And I started in this space doing this over a decade ago. You know, and I was just like you said, like a one woman show, right? Like I was the only doc and now I have a team of one, two, three, four other docs ⁓ that work with me. And my favorite thing about this is that I'll use like gut as an example is I love working with the gut and diving into that. But I have a practitioner on my team who like she's better at it than I am, you know, I'm good at it.
The Dr. Z: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Beth Westie: she's better. So I funnel everybody to her, you know, and it's like hiring all stars and really letting those individuals shine so that if there is an issue that somebody has, you get to like use everybody and all their skills and talents to help and not, you know, I can do that too. Yeah, I can do that too. I can take somebody through a GI protocol and, you know, test and retest and all that stuff. For sure, right? But like my sweet spot, you know, is over here. So the thing I keep in mind, which is something somebody said to me a long time ago, inch wide, mile deep, you know, inch wide, mile deep. And if you can get yourself to, and before I was doing everything, right? But I have been narrowing, narrowing, narrowing, narrowing, inch wide, mile deep, inch wide, mile deep. And then having other people join that are also inch wide, mile deep.
The Dr. Z: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Beth Westie: And that's what helps build such a well-rounded team and it's best outcomes for everybody. You know what I mean? Like, yeah,
The Dr. Z: I love that. How, since you've been doing it for decade, how have your care plans evolved over the last 10 years? I started about the same time in functional medicine. I've been doing this like almost 30 years now, but for my first functional medicine practice was, yeah, 10 years, 2016. So when I think of how I started, I was definitely the one woman show there. Party of one, this is how I referred to it.
Dr. Beth Westie: Mm-hmm
The Dr. Z: but when I think about what I did then versus what do now, ⁓ mean, obviously I know so much more now and I have more tools and team to me for sure. But also like, I think in the beginning, I mean, just full disclosure, I'm going to be honest. It was like, can I figure this out? And that was the focus. Could I get to the root cause? What the heck was going on? And that of course is still important, but that like the main focus. Then very quickly I learned, ⁓ wait a minute. That's sort of nothing if people don't do things. Now I have to figure out how do I get them to do things and how do I build a plan that's going to work for them and their capacity, like where they're at. I mean, I could align up 10 women with what seems like the same scenario, same age, similar tests, and I couldn't give them all the same plan. And I didn't find enough people talking about that. I don't know. What do you think, Dr. Beth? Have you seen that too?
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, yes, yes. I really noticed, I mean, at the beginning, I was so over eager to... Oh, this is an issue. Let's work with this. Let's do this. Let's do, like, tackle it all. All of it, right at the beginning, you know. Fix everything, right? And it's like, that's not how that works. It was too much. You know?
The Dr. Z: Yep. ⁓
Dr. Beth Westie: I have a tendency to be, I get so pumped about stuff or I, my biggest thing is I've learned to, I'll call it reign myself in more to meet people where they're at and then be like, okay, we're starting here. Here's the top things. Here's the biggest fires that we got to put out. Like this other thing. Yes, it's an issue, but you know, we're going to pace ourselves, right? And, tortoise versus the hare, right? We've got to be the tortoise getting out of the gate, tackling everything. giving people huge protocols, telling them to shift their entire life upside down, go gluten free, dairy free, stop eating sugar, da-da-da-da, and they're like, they can't keep it up beyond a week because it's too much, right?
The Dr. Z: Yeah, when you go to Thanksgiving, I want you to just bring a thermos and that's what you're going to eat from.
Dr. Beth Westie: Right? And it doesn't help. it really is learning. I want to say this. It was like learning more about human behavior, you know? And marrying the two of like, okay, this is the best thing for them, but here's human behavior. How can we put that in the middle to get that middle ground and then drip out the information to people so that it's not
The Dr. Z: Yes.
Dr. Beth Westie: overwhelming mentally, but we're giving them enough so that they understand the why behind the what. And especially for women and the way women's brains work. And I work with women, right? I work with women. So women need to understand the why behind the what in order to really dedicate. If you're just saying, can I do this thing? Yes.
The Dr. Z: Yeah. And to start seeing results, like small, even small wins before we get a big one, that's okay, but something. I always tell practitioners, listen, you actually operate at a higher standard because I get a lot of hospitalists too, that they leave the hospital great, or they left private practice, but it was like a medical group. So it's completely different world when all of a sudden they own their own business. It's a cash pay practice. It's not insurance. Right. so I said, listen, not only do you have this practitioner patient relationship and the standard you have to maintain there, but now you have business owner customer, they're a consumer. So if you, they're going to vote with their dollars. If you can't deliver and do a good job, they're going to take that and go elsewhere. And so actually you have two standards now to operate. ⁓ and that awareness and teaching that what that means. really, I feel has changed a lot of things and helped people to understand, okay, like it's not enough just to say, I gave them the answers, right? And that's it. If they didn't do it, it's on them. And so the other thing I say, and you let me know what you think about this, but I say, ⁓ you know, the root cause is actually now the easy part. I mean, at least for us, we've been working on it. We teach it, right? We get it. We have the tools to get to the root cause. So yay. still wow the patient, but that's the easy part for us as practitioners. The hard part now ⁓ how do you get them to do the things they have to do to start seeing results? And that's where the real medicine is, is what does it take? And I ⁓ I will use the same tricks and tools and tips and ⁓ that, you know, here and there, but I'm really finding like personalized medicine and solutions and customizing it to what that person needs.
Dr. Beth Westie: Hmm?
The Dr. Z: ⁓ is very individual and capacity is something I'll give you an example. This was actually a gentleman. I've mentioned him before, but when he came in, it was a stretch for he and his wife to do a functional medicine and out of pocket cash, you know, pay. ⁓ I wanted award results for them, right? ⁓ And had metabolic concerns. And so I was like, we're going to reverse these numbers. We're going to do all these things and blah, blah.
Dr. Beth Westie: Okay, yeah.
The Dr. Z: And just the sweetest little old man, and he was like, well, I just want to stop eating Taco Bell for lunch. Like that was where his first piece of awareness was. And so I very quickly learned, this was early in practice that, okay, I can have my goals, but I need to align myself to what their goals are. What did they need first? And then if we can hit that, we win some trust to then go to the next goal, right? But it was, yeah.
Dr. Beth Westie: the meeting people where they're at and ⁓ the biggest thing think and again, because I work with women, biggest, I will say struggle that ⁓ I see women face is the capacity to fit in or they're like, I wanna do these things or I know I need to get up in the morning and... get sunlight and activity and that's helpful for my energy levels. But they end up starting their day running and they're like running after kids, running after dogs, doing all this stuff where they're like, I don't get a moment to myself. So they run out of time and specific recommendations for people where it's like, yeah, they can't, you you're giving them, yes, this is the best case scenario for them to follow. This would be a perfect schedule, a perfect protocol, a perfect whatever. but they don't have the ability to follow through on any of that. You know what I mean? Versus saying, okay, what is this person's life like to put some things in there that are actually gonna make a difference? The less is more. Yeah, yeah.
The Dr. Z: ⁓ 100%. 100%. And, you know, we talk a lot. I've been talking about it for a while, but I feel like I'm just shouting it out all the time this year is what I call biohacking human behavior. And so that's really something we teach in FM 2.0 is how do you biohack human behavior? And your toughest cases are your best teachers. I remember one patient where honestly,
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah.
The Dr. Z: I gotta tell you, like, it's a case review I've shared before because I solved this, like, rare medical thing for her and it was so exciting. You know how we love solving the medical mystery? She couldn't give a hoot. She did not care at all. It didn't mean anything to her. She didn't understand it. And she literally said, I'm so overwhelmed. I need you to, I don't even want to go in the portal. I need you to send me an email with one thing in 18-point font. I was like, all right.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yes.
The Dr. Z: That's how we need to do it. That's how we're going to do it. so, and so sometimes those really challenging cases, I remember a patient who was so hypersensitive, you couldn't even like give like some natural supplement you had used a million times before you knew it was great. She'd have to like open it up, put her finger in it, dip it on her tongue. That's it. And so it was these challenging scenarios or, you know, the mom who drags in the teenager and the teenager doesn't want to be there or
Dr. Beth Westie: Yes. Yeah.
The Dr. Z: You know, all these scenarios, oh my gosh, or the kid, yeah, I saw a lot of peeds too. And so the kid who, you know, needs a change, you know, has a true gluten allergy and the parents falling, you know, falling apart, they're like a puddle on the floor. What am I going to do without toast and chicken fingers, you know? And so these types of lessons have really become invaluable and baked into our teachings now.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
The Dr. Z: I think especially because I even I would say, ⁓ me know your thoughts, Dr. Beth, but even from a decade ago, I can see the difference, ⁓ in the female patients coming in, their stress levels. ⁓ And that impacts their capacity to do anything. They know they need it. It's not a lack of information. ⁓ might need and they do those specific answers from you. But as far as like general health, wellness, things that are going wrong, they know something's wrong. That's why they're there. And they might even see some people doing things and that's working better for them, but they can't figure out how to make the change for themselves. And just their, their capacity to start with, they're so rung out that sometimes in those kinds of cases, we don't take anything away. We don't restrict anything. We don't do anything hard. We actually start with like taking the stress off their shoulders because they're prepared. They're prepared for the meal plan that's going to cut out half their pantry, right? And they're just thinking, I don't even know how I can handle it. I know I'm fast food on the way home. And so what we do is we actually start with maybe adding one nice thing. Like that sometimes it has to be like that. I don't know. Have you noticed a change the last decade?
Dr. Beth Westie: Huge change. Huge change. And I honestly think some of this has to do with just how the world has been in the last five years going through pandemic stuff and everything else, right? Like I was one, I mean, I have three kids and they were all in elementary or middle school, you know, during that timeframe. Really, really difficult to navigate life, work, school, family.
The Dr. Z: Thank
Dr. Beth Westie: Events whatever right it was difficult for everybody and I really feel like Women got through that time frame and then I've been working really hard to get their lives I don't want to say back on track, but to feel normal, but it's like we didn't give ourselves time to ⁓ Decompress from that. It's like hit the ground running. I got to make up this for the kids They missed this season. They missed this with school. They didn't get to do XYZ I'm gonna make it up for them and women You know, we put everybody else first, right? So it's so hard to finally realize, holy bananas, I am completely burned out. I am a crispy pile of ash. I need to do something for me. I can't function, right? It's only when you can't get to your goals, accomplish your tasks for the day, do women actually stop and say, ⁓ OK, something's wrong here. ⁓
The Dr. Z: 100%. Yes. And we didn't get Nirvana on the other side either. So there was no real break between wars and headlines and stress and politics and economics. And people have just absolutely been wrung out. And I just am seeing it and feeling it differently. There's a lot of changes we made in practice and business and self-care because of it. And I'll just give a personal story. I live with a primary immunodeficiency. It's not a piece of cake. I used to be on social security disability, told I'd never work again, 22 hours a day in bed. It was just hell, right? And it was not the life I wanted. So that's how I found functional medicine. And then once I learned it, I wanted to share it with everyone, right? Now, this is an incurable thing. It doesn't magically go away. It doesn't stop me from trying, but it doesn't magically go away. And so I had to figure out, you know, how to live with this and still be productive.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah.
The Dr. Z: do the things I wanted to do. And so that's been great. I've managed that. I'm really good. Why am I saying all this? I'm really good at like managing rest and self care. And still I had to do this extra trip. I don't like to travel so much, like getting on a plane. I love it when people come see me, but me getting on a plane and I had to get on this extra plane ride. They were too close together right at the end of the year. And I was just like, ⁓ I can't believe I have to do, it was to sign something in person, you know? I was like, I can't believe I have to do this. It was just a push I didn't need to have. And I really felt that. And so then when I came to St. Croix, which I love being here, I'm so excited. But when I came, I didn't even realize the impact of the stress. Even though I know this, I teach this, I'm mindful of it. We caught a cold, you know, and it was like we had been fighting them all. But there we were in the Miami airport with apparently all of the United States traveling at the same time.
Dr. Beth Westie: Mmm. Right? No.
The Dr. Z: And so we caught a cold and we get here and it's peaceful and it's quiet and I could see the ocean and I have never slept so much in my life. Seriously, Dr. Beth, it was crazy. Like I slept 11 hours twice. I haven't done that since I was a teenager and I was like, wow, this is what it feels like when that stress creeps up on you and you didn't realize it and it taps your capacity. And this is what it feels like to be restorative. Because we were just in this position where it was like, well, all right, we feel tired. We're going to go back to sleep. And I was like, are we going to wake up? And it wasn't just me. It was my husband too. So I couldn't just say, it was me or whatever. It got both of us. But first of all, how infrequently do people get rest? And then how restorative is it on the other side?
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. Right.
The Dr. Z: I just wanted to share that because it literally just happened. And even with all this knowledge, it caught me by surprise. ⁓ I couldn't make myself do some new protocol or something in that timeframe.
Dr. Beth Westie: Right, right. It's not that we don't want to be functioning or whatever. It's like it almost has to get to a point where you're behind and you have to catch up. And that's just, I mean, that's the same thing I've seen with so many women recently is in the last couple of years, I'll say, women are saying things like, yeah, well, I was really stressed and I'm... Oh, no, I'm much better now. And it's like, yeah, but your body is still reacting as if you're in that stress. You didn't do anything to turn off that mechanism. You've still been sprinting 100 miles an hour, sun up to sun down, you know, to keep things going for everybody else. And that's what your body is showing. Of course you're struggling. Of course you're not sleeping well and exhausted all the time and your hair's falling out and all, you know, et cetera, et cetera. It's, of course. So.
The Dr. Z: Yes. I love that you say that because you could, like mentioning the last five years and the pandemic and politics and economics, all those challenges, you could psychologically be on the other side or mentally be on the other side. But if your body hasn't had that recovery yet, forget it. And that I just think is a perfect ⁓ explanation of what I literally just went through. But during that like 10-day time period.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. Yeah? Yeah?
The Dr. Z: There were new things I wanted to do, so I'm in a new location. Okay, I'm going to do this new protocol. I could not have done something new to save my life. There was no way. I know the plan. I know the answers. It was like, nope, I just have to recognize the capacity where it's at. As soon as I gave myself a break with that, ⁓ the relief was ⁓ tremendous. and then allow myself to get to a point where I was ready ⁓ to face the thing head on. And so, so that's what I call capacity. And if you recognize that with your ⁓ patients, cause sometimes the time they get to you, they've been through a lot of other people or they've been broken down a bit and their capacity might be challenged. ⁓ And to recognize with them doesn't mean you're not doing your job. It means you're doing the exact right job.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah.
The Dr. Z: You might have to slowly nurse them along as we build the capacity back before we're ready to go tackle the thing.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, yeah. It makes me think of, I don't the name of one specifically, but 200 years ago, 150 years ago, ⁓ They ⁓ people, ⁓ would, ⁓ they're exhausted, they're suffering from exhaustion, and they would go to this seaside facility, medical facility, where they would get massaged every day and have bone broth. They'd sip bone broth and tea and like sit and look at the ocean. And that was their treatment plan. You know I'm talking about? The... Yeah, right? I was like, bring those, how come those are not everywhere right now? That was the medical treatment. Like they were like, oh, this person is, you know, they need this seaside rest. And that's what they did. Yes, yes. They were doing that hundreds of years ago. Like, how is this, how is this not more common that this is...
The Dr. Z: Sounds great. Thank I think that's literally what we just witnessed. and in the- Yeah.
Dr. Beth Westie: recommended as a viable form of treatment for people that produces really positive results, because it does. It does, you
The Dr. Z: I think
Dr. Beth Westie: know?
The Dr. Z: the sad reason is either it's economics or busyness, but people don't feel like they're allowed to take the break. And what I've been trying to teach because I've had the bad things happen is that you have to be more in tune with your body and dial in the break. Otherwise it will keep shouting and shouting and shouting. If you don't listen at some point, it forces the break. And since I had that happen in, I guess, 2013, it was like, oh, I don't
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
The Dr. Z: ever want to be in that situation again. so starting to learn to listen better and faster so you can always be in the decisive role instead of your body saying, I'm going to take over because you're just not listening. Yeah. ⁓
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, yeah. The one thing that this something that I struggled with myself as well ⁓ and that can see and recognize in the women that I work with ⁓ and you when we talk about like again as a provider you know ⁓ helping people, people and all of that other stuff to really hone in on this piece of it you know people may not need more education they don't need to know how cells work exactly right they need to understand that, you've been living a lifestyle that's been really harsh and the way you've been going about it is also not getting you to the finish line. So you need to shift and change this. I have, I mean, I was an athlete, high school, college, right? And ⁓ was so, I mean, that was my world. You know, I played volleyball and I mean, I played with broken fingers, fractured feet, you know, all this stuff, injuries. You just push through it. tape it up, get back out there. You know what I mean? And there's so much of my life since then that I have had to really force myself or I have other people that have to tell me, hey, you're not okay. You should go see someone about this. I'm like, it's fine, I'm fine. I can push through this. You shouldn't. You shouldn't. My husband does this all the time with me. This was almost four years ago.
The Dr. Z: Yes. Yeah.
Dr. Beth Westie: I got bit by a brown recluse spider and I was like in bed suffering for days. Huge mark on my leg, all this stuff. And my husband was like, was feverish, sweating, couldn't eat, couldn't move. And he's like, you need to go to the hospital. I was like, shh, don't talk to me. It's fine, I'll be better tomorrow. And he had to drive me to the hospital. And they were like, how long is this?
The Dr. Z: no, yeah.
Dr. Beth Westie: I was like, I don't know, like three or four days. They're like, oh my god. I had to stay in the hospital because it was so bad. It's not funny. It's not funny. I know. But this is, this is the same thing, right? Yeah, like it's so hard when you've gone through so many things or you push yourself or you think, I can keep going, I can keep going. And I feel like women get worn down.
The Dr. Z: I know. God. Hard lessons.
Dr. Beth Westie: or to a point where you're like, I gotta be tougher than this. I can outdo this. And that's not what it's about. It's like stopping, realizing, recognizing. And like I said, I have other people in my life that help me to see when I am not okay, because I have a hard time recognizing it for myself. So I've worked with women that they have their husbands on consult calls with them, or their sisters or their mothers, because they're like, I have bad brain fog and I can't remember everything.
The Dr. Z: They're not in touch with it.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, yeah, and that is also something where I feel like provides women, especially with such a better outcome when they have a supportive network behind them, you know? So that's that's a.
The Dr. Z: Well, and you have to like learn this skill. So you probably got it from one of your parents. I got it from my mom, you know, the just push through, ignore it, like disconnect from your body type thing. And so I wanted to raise my kid differently, ⁓ which let me tell you, doesn't feel like an advantage when they're younger, because then you've got a kid, like if you want to say, just suck it up and go with it, nope, you've got a kid who's going to be able to voice it. I don't feel like it. This doesn't feel good. No. And then you have to respect it because you're the one who taught him.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. ⁓ my god.
The Dr. Z: how to do that, but they're gonna be so much better as an adult. So I get why the parent was like, suck it up, go, go, go, right? ⁓ But yes, that can really, really backfire. That was what I was taught. And it can backfire when you don't take the break or get the help that you need. ⁓ I think the hard thing right now that we have to recognize with our patients is that If we focus just on getting the root cause, like solving the mystery and then telling them, giving them this amazing plan and what they should do, that a lot of times, if we don't see their capacity or where they're at first, then they take it as, this is just another area I'm failing. This is another thing I can't do because why didn't I figure this out before? And of course she's telling me this and you know, it's like where they're wearing a hair shirt or whipping themselves. And it's like, okay.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah.
The Dr. Z: You know, I have to like really look at who's in front of me and what would best serve them, meet them where they are, but also like maybe they need to be built up a little bit. Maybe they need to breathe a little bit. Maybe they need to know that they're okay. Maybe they need to hear from me that yes, we want to do these things. It's going to be better for your health. Here's why you haven't been able to do them. It's not really your fault. It's this environment that you're living in and this lifestyle you've created.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. Yeah.
The Dr. Z: And there's no way, this is not a willpower thing, right? There's no way you could succeed if we don't reconstruct a new life for you. And I feel like this is something I want to teach so much in FM2 because I went through that. I was the patient and the life sucked and it was like, I don't want that anymore. And so how was I going to create a life that would allow me what I wanted, but also support me, right?
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then having people around you also understand that. ⁓ There's a quote that pops into my head as you were talking and I, ⁓ ugh, I say Tony Robbins says this, but I can't remember exactly, so I might not get the source correct here, but it says, people will ⁓ overestimate what can do in 30 days and underestimate what they can accomplish in a year. ⁓ And yeah, often in these cases especially, you know,
The Dr. Z: ⁓ I like that.
Dr. Beth Westie: to think about, listen, you ended up, you're a hot mess express right now. Nothing's gonna get better overnight. The body takes time to heal. Talking about, you can only rebuild cells at this pace and the gut lining can heal at this pace or the muscle tissue grows at this rate for the female body. Like that's what it is. So we, looking out farther, like, ⁓ look at, you know, six months from now or something. I just had a conversation the other day with someone where, We're talking about Halloween because last Halloween, she was so exhausted, could not trick or treat with her young kids. She had to cut out and go home after 30 minutes. And she was on the couch. ⁓ And she felt bad. so, you know, that's, hey, ⁓ you've got this. doing this. Like remember, what's one of your big goals? Like come this next Halloween. You love this event and holiday and you like going out trick or treating. you're gonna be out there as long as the kids can be out there. Just that bigger 30,000 foot view, we get so caught up in the day to day, minute to minute, working through some of the tough parts of going through initial protocols and then handling it in their life. it's that, it's really, call it future pacing, right? Out where you can be and think about six months or a year from now, how your life is gonna be different and getting that visual input.
The Dr. Z: I love that.
Dr. Beth Westie: to be like this is your healthiest self and we're working towards that and you absolutely can do that ⁓ to keep it going, you know, cause it is tough. It is really tough to.
The Dr. Z: And I love that that's very personalized for her, which is so important. There's gotta be some why and something specific. So I feel like we could talk about this forever. We'll have to come back and do some more on it. But practitioners who are listening, make sure you're not overwhelming your patients. Are you over-educating them to serve them or to serve yourself or soothe yourself or cover up with some anxiety? They don't need to understand everything immediately.
Dr. Beth Westie: Yeah. Yeah.
The Dr. Z: I mean, they need to understand the next action they're going to take. They need to feel that win. So we're not anti-education, but it is anti-overload. So don't confuse your patients into failure. Dr. Beth, thanks for being here with us and practitioners. We'll see you next week.
