Restoring the 2000 lb. Chambersburg with Pat Quinn

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[SPEAKER_00]: This show is brought to you by The Makeery, the podcast network for Makeers.
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[SPEAKER_02]: are you ready yeah yeah guys welcome to full blast podcast I'm Jeff Fader and I'm here with Pat Quinn the executive director of Center for Mental Arts and we had a lot to talk about so let's stop playing around if before we get into it let's talk about a little bit of business first things first I want to thank our sponsors broadback ironworks amazing good to broadback ironworks.com check out all their grinders attachment supports and put in the promo code
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[SPEAKER_02]: Many, many thanks to my guests, my good friend, Pat Quinn, is the executive director of Center for Mental Arts.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And he is an extraordinary young man.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I am so eager to talk to him about all the stuff that's going on at Center for Mental Arts in John Sound, Pennsylvania.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Pat Quinn, good morning.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Good morning.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for calling me a young man.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That was really nice.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, anybody younger than me is a young man.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So it's okay.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a way it is.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Can I always be a young man?
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You take what you can get.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I found eternal youth, I guess.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you feel, I feel like there is an eternal youth with you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And one of the things, and we have a lot to get to, one of the things, and I've said this in the past, I'm just going to say it again, just to reiterate, is I've seen your work for a long time, based off of the different places that you've been, and I've been able to watch the evolution of your work.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And to me, the real testament of an artist is to see their work and the evolution of where it's come from,
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[SPEAKER_02]: and I always feel like it's very amazing to be able to see the evolution of an artist in real life.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, things going.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm in really good, man.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Time to stuff happen in over here as as usual, but
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[SPEAKER_02]: all in the nature of forward progress and all all good stuff so you know I can't can't complain so all's good yeah so let's start with this hat let's start with uh I guess we should start back and in uh the uh the conference do you have the John sound the conference said the Cambria iron conference in September right September right how did it go
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, it was good.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Great turnout, really good demonstrations and exhibition and stuff and, you know, just to, that's, since that's such a community event, really the most important things to me, are that the community comes and participates and they really did and it was, you know, a great mixture of professionals and new folks
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[SPEAKER_01]: Always an amazing networking event and people meeting people that they just know through social media, which is always fun and then seeing old friends, which is always great and
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's becoming more of, um, you know, more people seem to come every year, which is, which is cool.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And we have this great campsite off, you know, down the road a little bit.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So the, the social scene was also a lot of fun this year and all around just a great, really great time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So happy, happy to have.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, done it again this year and had such a good turnout to be honest.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's amazing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And you got to demonstrate using the, if you, if you, this is the first time you're learning out, you're hearing Pat Quinn, the, the Center for Mental Arts is John's town, Pennsylvania and one of the, one of the, many things that they have is this giant building called the Octagon with these incredible restored hammers, and you just restored the,
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[SPEAKER_02]: Hope, why don't you talk about what you just restored?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's a 1941, Chambersburg, self-contained power hammer with a 2,000 pound ram.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, so this one
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[SPEAKER_01]: just got finished, right in the nick of time for the collaborative sculpture program.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I had, you know, I'm sure we'll get to this portion of the conversation, but I had designed a portion of this year's sculpture to be forged on that hammer.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a real nail bite or to see if it was going to get finished in time, but
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[SPEAKER_01]: real sweet hammer, so it was really amazing to have that up and running and run it for the first time, not only for the class and for the students running that hammer for the first time since before the 1970s.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But also for people who come to the conference right because it, you know, a lot of the effort to restore that was from our First-ever public fundraiser and so, you know, the forging community Like helped out a lot in that respect
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[SPEAKER_01]: and a lot of the people who donated to that were at the conference so it was really nice to feature that hammer for them to see you know oh I made a small contribution to CMA or large contribution for that matter I wonder if they did anything with you know and then well oh yeah they did look at it it's it's running right now you know my money went to good use and they did what they said they were going to do with it and all that kind of stuff
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I would imagine that really, to me that one of the things that I've said this every time you come on every six months I see you or whatever there's just an enormous amount of work that's been done and that's one of the nice things is I have that amount of time to kind of like think about what you've done in a certain amount of time and what you what you've accomplished and there's always quite amazing.
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[SPEAKER_02]: When you were restoring, I remember talking to you before you started restoring it, and I think that you said that you removed a casing and said that everything's relatively clean inside.
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[SPEAKER_02]: How is the restoration?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Because it's such an enormous hammer.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this one dude, this one almost broke me, honestly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Really, um, yeah, yeah, but it didn't.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, let's go work it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's almost, yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What was the most surprising part of the restoration?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, wow.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, as we had mentioned, the hammer was in great condition and most of the sort of work that needed to be done to it, you know, mechanically was restoring the motor and installing a variable frequency drive to run the motor.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it has the original motor was wound for 25 hertz, which is how Bethlehem's steel generated their own electricity at that frequency.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I made the decision, I guess, to restore and use the original motor rather than try to find a new motor that would fit that hammer and run at the speed we needed.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, if you have a new motor that runs too fast,
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[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to want to run it off a variable frequency drive anyway, so if we're installing a variable frequency drive we might as well use the original motor that is sort of like my thinking I guess, because the motor, you know, it fits the hammer.
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[SPEAKER_01]: it's sort of direct drive to the gearbox and you know wouldn't have to do any sort of retrofitting or jack shafts or any of that sort of stuff you just put it back and it bolts right to the to the gearbox but um...
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's also a really beautiful motor, honestly, you know, and I try to do things as close to, you know, historically accurate as I can around here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So that sort of just fit, you know, that sort of mentality or whatever.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So we decided to do that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, so most of the, most of the restoration of the hammer was
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[SPEAKER_01]: Rewinding the motor with the proper insulation to run off a variable frequency drive and then, you know, sourcing and installing a variable frequency drive that could handle a 75 horsepower motor.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so on and so forth in that that
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[SPEAKER_01]: All worked out really well, it wasn't easy to sort of figure all that out, but fortunately I worked with some electrical engineers and some knowledgeable friends and community members who were able to help guide me in the right direction because I'm not an electrical engineer.
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[SPEAKER_01]: nor do I care to be, but I just wanted to make sure that I was doing everything right to kind of run this old motor, you know?
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of pressure, because I mean now you've got the grant, and you have to know you have them, everyone believes in what you're doing, and you have to make the right decision based off of something that you're not necessarily an expert in.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, and we decided like the fundraiser was for $50,000, and if we raised the $50,000, one of our really supportive foundations would match it, giving us a total of $100.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And just the motor and the variable frequency drive and the labor to install it and stuff like that, I think I don't have the numbers right in front of me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There's over like $65,000 so it's well over 50% of the entire budget before even you know turning a nut or a bolt on the hammer itself.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And now you're having to introduce electricity into that building.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're using compressed air from outside compressors and there's no power and there's no power and there's now you're introducing power.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and there's still no power, so we use a generator to run it, you know, powering that building is a bigger ball of wax that we're working towards as well, but you know, got to do one thing at a time and fixing the hammer and running it off a generator for the time being is the way to go until we're able to kind of get all that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: permanent power situated and figured out, you know what I mean?
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[SPEAKER_02]: So that feeling that you know you're getting it what you got up and running, how much time between when the collaborative sculpture class started and a hammer restoration was there.
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[SPEAKER_02]: how much time like you've finished it's ready to go you're feel like it's usable I'm sure you probably made dies or had dies made when it was done done ready to go how much time did you have before the class started when the when the hammer was finished
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[SPEAKER_01]: uh... days just a matter of days yes that you're gonna give me weeks day well i did you know the funny thing was man the hammer uh... it was in such good condition
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[SPEAKER_01]: that I was like the whole time I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop like what what's going to be the problem that I can't see that's going to pop up at some point during this process that's going to prevent us from achieving our goal or make it really difficult or make it really
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[SPEAKER_01]: you know I the the rest is the third hammer that we've restored right in the octagon and you know mechanically once they're once the restored they're good to go and so I had no choice really but to assume the same thing with this hammer and so you know we finished restoring it setting up the
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[SPEAKER_01]: getting the generator, wiring everything up, and doing like a test, a first-ever test run.
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[SPEAKER_01]: actuate this hammer for the first time since you know before the 1970s and I think it was like mid-July and so the collaborative sculpture class started on September 7th I think or something like that so I had
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, almost more than half a July and then all of August, and then a week or so in September after the restoration was complete.
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[SPEAKER_01]: to run the hammer, test the hammer, forge some parts that we were gonna be doing during the sculpture class.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, make sure I could really wrap my head around, running this thing and of course, like, you know, putting students on it and all that kind of stuff I really like to put it through the pace as first so that I can create a better and more thorough educational experience for the students, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so,
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[SPEAKER_01]: all's well and good generator comes in you know in in July and the get everything set up run the hammer just like oh my god this thing's fucking amazing like the the power and the control and and it just was like you know I always felt like this hammer is really going to fill and eat in that shop
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[SPEAKER_01]: as a machine that could do like better sort of like drawing out or tapering or whatever like the utility hammers work really well for tooling and set downs and all kinds of stuff like that and of course we do draw out a ton of material on the utility hammers but to have reciprocating hammer that's big enough to handle some of the stock that we're forging in there.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was like this is really going to fill a need for us and it was like a immediately apparent that that was the case even without putting hot metal on it just to see it how it functions and you know pulling back on the throttle and getting a sense for all that sort of stuff.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so we just had like some timbers under there just to kind of get a sense for the control and all that kind of stuff and so it was like
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[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, one of the proudest moments I think of my career as far as, you know, the restoration work we're doing at C.M.A.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and the third, you know, all the hammers in the octagon now run in less than 10 years here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It just, it felt like holy smokes, you know, really doing it, and especially with the help of the community.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It just, it felt like just incredibly special and important.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But the other shoe dropped for sure that day and my pride and excitement was immediately squashed or followed immediately by incredible sense of dread and fear and
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[SPEAKER_01]: I guess feelings like that because I noticed that as we were running the hammer for the first time and just hammering on a piece of wood, I turned the hammer off and let the ram gently come to rest and found that it was, it came to rest like an inch and a half above the bottom die.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now I don't know if everybody knows what that means.
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[SPEAKER_01]: but it was pretty apparent to me that the there was something wrong with the foundation.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, because because the bottom die on a hammer that large isn't connected to the frame.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, no, it's a two-piece hammer.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, every hammer.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a two-piece hammer.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So something dropped an inch and a half.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, as we're hammering it, it's hammering the Anvil deeper into the ground.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Mike, as you're speaking, as you're looking, you're seeing it drop.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I, at first I didn't, you know, I was like, just so...
22:28.322 --> 22:36.326
[SPEAKER_01]: wrapped up in the amazement of this machine and what it could do for our classes and all that and our research and stuff like that.
22:37.506 --> 22:49.992
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when we turned it off for the first time and the top die came to rest and there was that like inch or inch and a half gap between it and the bottom die as just like oh fuck.
22:51.472 --> 23:15.632
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you miscalculate the distance between the bottom die and the top die, and the ram extends itself fully, and there's nothing under the top die to stop the
23:20.132 --> 23:30.315
[SPEAKER_01]: the ring on the bottom of the cylinder, you have like what I would consider potentially catastrophic failure in the hammer.
23:30.835 --> 23:39.438
[SPEAKER_01]: You can share those bolts right off and damage the hammer permanently and probably injure yourself and others.
23:40.415 --> 23:53.801
[SPEAKER_01]: And so more than, like, just a problem, it's something that is not really great for the hammer as well.
23:53.821 --> 23:55.562
[SPEAKER_02]: Does that make sense?
23:55.582 --> 23:56.082
[SPEAKER_02]: 100%.
23:56.102 --> 23:56.462
[SPEAKER_02]: 100%.
23:56.502 --> 23:57.203
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
23:57.923 --> 24:01.565
[SPEAKER_02]: So how did you fix it?
24:01.825 --> 24:02.165
[SPEAKER_01]: Well,
24:06.437 --> 24:32.271
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, because I do know, and I'll tell you in a second, but I was shocked, man, and I think I was in sort of like, you know, speechless and scared and all kinds of stuff because what that meant was that the hammer wasn't operable, you can't.
24:32.887 --> 24:56.056
[SPEAKER_01]: you can't run a hammer that could accidentally stroke out like that and so we did all this work and I mean I knew it wasn't for nothing but I was like well we're definitely not gonna be I'm definitely not gonna have it up and running by September like you know foundations of these things are.
24:57.436 --> 25:04.378
[SPEAKER_01]: crazy amount of work and materials and time and machinery and stuff like that.
25:04.498 --> 25:09.159
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think I just sort of like wallowed and self-pity for a couple of days.
25:11.619 --> 25:22.481
[SPEAKER_01]: Not even really wondering what to do just like knowing that I wasn't going to... We weren't going to like achieve our goal or whatever but just sort of like wondering
25:27.268 --> 25:35.711
[SPEAKER_01]: assessed the problem, let alone fix it on a machine of that size with the foundation of that size.
25:35.771 --> 25:44.495
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just kind of like, I felt like maybe I was like a bummer for a couple days and that's the shoot.
25:45.995 --> 25:47.036
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know what to say.
25:47.096 --> 25:47.696
[SPEAKER_02]: So what happened?
25:47.716 --> 25:48.376
[SPEAKER_02]: We rebuilt the
25:57.192 --> 25:59.453
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you have to take everything up?
25:59.913 --> 26:04.694
[SPEAKER_02]: How did you rebuild the foundation with the bottom die in place?
26:04.714 --> 26:14.997
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, man, it was the craziest month of my career hands down without batting and eye.
26:17.248 --> 26:38.527
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was like the most also amazing month of CMA's development because, you know, I feel like we achieved the impossible, but it was only through the help of some amazing people that stepped up and really, really like,
26:41.763 --> 26:58.093
[SPEAKER_01]: made this happen, created the momentum, and I just sort of felt like I was, you know, along for the ride facilitating all this stuff, but it happened and it was a wild ride, man.
26:58.313 --> 27:00.335
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really, really crazy.
27:00.995 --> 27:02.456
[SPEAKER_02]: So you lifted the whole thing up?
27:03.888 --> 27:30.757
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, you know, when it happens and you're like, oh, man, something must be wrong with the foundation, you know, I, I've heard, you know, you're just kind of hypothesizing at this point like that these hammers were installed on, you know, concrete and white oak or wooden timbers, you know,
27:32.337 --> 27:56.850
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know how many floods have come through John's town, and I have heard through my research that there is, you know, severe roof damage to the blacksmith shop for a long time, and I think it was right over this hammer, and, you know, you know, how much damage, like one drop of water can do over 10 years, I mean, so it like my hypothesis was that,
27:58.063 --> 28:24.384
[SPEAKER_01]: some there's a lot of water damage and it rotted the timbers underneath the hammer and so what do we got to do I guess we have to move the hammer and replace the timbers well and and hope that's actually the problem and there's not something else like the concrete is sinking because the soils wet or something like that you just sort of have to hope that your hypothesis is
28:25.770 --> 28:27.391
[SPEAKER_01]: is the problem.
28:29.991 --> 28:40.855
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, a good friend of mine named Ellis from State College has a lot of, you know, knows a lot of people in the area that can are capable of a lot of different things.
28:40.935 --> 28:47.557
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he sort of like, set it in motion by saying, I know a rigor
28:55.720 --> 29:17.645
[SPEAKER_01]: real reality honestly this hammer is a small machine for this guy so you know it wasn't a big deal and he knows exactly what to do and it's not scary you know and everything like that and so So I called him and he said all right I'll be there in two weeks to move the hammer and I thought it all right well
29:19.265 --> 29:42.489
[SPEAKER_01]: why stop that you know what i mean i mean we even if it doesn't get up and running by September it's like we got to know what the problem is anyway um so that was sort of the first thing that was said in motion uh towards the rebuilding of the foundation and i thought well we'll move the hammer and then we'll see what the problem is and then go from there
29:46.144 --> 29:48.707
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I just need a break from talking for a second.
29:48.747 --> 29:54.613
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm like riveted, you know, pun intended, I guess.
29:55.114 --> 30:05.945
[SPEAKER_02]: And what's amazing is it is that kind of idea of the opening up a can of worms because like, obviously there's things out of your control that you're just not prepared for.
30:07.106 --> 30:32.018
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, just imagine that you're just like, okay, we're gonna get this rigour, okay, he's got he's squared away We can move it and then you got to excavate the the surrounding Foundation and you have to read I see reminds me of back in the day when I remember stopping in the old center for metal arts for When you had to when you were installing the Bradley hammer in that in that space that was a Bradley was a nasal I think it was a nasal nasal
30:32.498 --> 30:47.152
[SPEAKER_02]: and you had this in I mean it was like architectural I mean it was like I was when it ready for Indiana Jones to pop out this hole was so f and big and I just I was amazed I was like oh my god so I can only imagine what it was like to dig that hole out and then reassess
30:47.850 --> 30:51.651
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, that was nothing, honestly, compared to this.
30:51.751 --> 31:01.293
[SPEAKER_01]: And so fortunately, like this company's CCO Ajax, I believe, as the name has, they still make industrial forging equipment.
31:01.333 --> 31:05.133
[SPEAKER_01]: They actually, you can still buy Chambersburg, Hammer's brand new if you want.
31:06.854 --> 31:12.515
[SPEAKER_01]: But they have all of Chambersburg's records and stuff like that.
31:12.555 --> 31:13.035
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they,
31:14.060 --> 31:20.337
[SPEAKER_01]: And they love people like us who have these old machines and are rebuilding them and stuff like that.
31:20.357 --> 31:21.400
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I called them.
31:22.480 --> 31:46.413
[SPEAKER_01]: and let him know what I was doing and I gave him the serial number of the hammer and everything and they sent me, excuse me, the original drawing, the original blueprint from 1940 of the foundation that, you know, they specified for this size hammer for Bethlehem steel here in
31:52.032 --> 31:58.914
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a blueprint to follow, and that was like another piece of the puzzle that I really needed, right?
31:58.954 --> 32:09.097
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't want to have to figure out how to engineer with this hammer needed on my own, or through word of mouth, or whatever, here say, um,
32:09.937 --> 32:21.067
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, like having the actual blueprint from the Chambersburg engineering company, it felt like okay now all we have to do is follow directions, right?
32:21.667 --> 32:35.278
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, so I got those before the rigor came and I'm just like hoping that when we pull up this hammer we discover exactly what's in the blueprint, right?
32:37.881 --> 32:52.876
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, people install hammers how they want to install them sometimes and if you think about a place like Bethlehem steal who has their own engineers, you know, knows more about the soil that they're putting the hammers on and
32:53.703 --> 33:14.113
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they might have, they might make changes to the drawing that was sent by Chambersburg based on conditions, you know, unique to this area or their use or whatever, so I'm just like, man, I really hope that when we pull up this hammer, this is what we find.
33:14.953 --> 33:18.195
[SPEAKER_01]: And my best case scenario in my mind was that,
33:20.501 --> 33:31.973
[SPEAKER_01]: The white oak was rotten, but the concrete was still in good condition, and fortunately that's exactly what we found out.
33:32.373 --> 33:38.399
[SPEAKER_02]: So if the concrete's in good condition, all you have to do is replace the white oak and then you just put the machine back.
33:40.380 --> 33:44.722
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just that easy to handle.
33:44.762 --> 33:51.924
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm just a, I don't, I have no idea the, the technicalities of it all, but like, no, that's exactly right.
33:52.024 --> 33:53.085
[SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly right.
33:53.385 --> 34:04.309
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and, um, you know, just to put it into perspective a little bit, like it's a two piece hammer, and the frame weighed, uh, the
34:08.570 --> 34:13.294
[SPEAKER_01]: In the endville itself, just the endville weighs 30,000 pounds.
34:13.794 --> 34:19.559
[SPEAKER_01]: So with the 2,000 pounds ram, that's like a 15-to-1 ratio of ram weight and
34:28.223 --> 34:39.947
[SPEAKER_01]: So we sort of knew what we were getting involved in, you know, beforehand because we knew those weights, but I was astonished at how heavy the endville was.
34:40.787 --> 34:50.670
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I knew it was big, but that is just, I mean, it's almost, you know, up there with the weight of the entire
34:51.474 --> 35:09.280
[SPEAKER_01]: hammer itself, you know, and so, um, so moving those was pretty crazy, unfortunately, you know, the, the rigors and everything, they were just amazing crew, amazing, you know, its family sort of oriented and, you know, they knew exactly what they were doing.
35:09.560 --> 35:36.717
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, dude, also, there's no overhead doors in that shop, so the forklifts that move this hammer, they're called like VersaLift's 2535, and so, you know, on their own, they lift 25,000 pounds, but they, the back of the forklift extends out and can't elievers out farther, and when the back is fully extended, it can lift 35,000 pounds.
35:38.658 --> 35:54.683
[SPEAKER_01]: and those forklifts they have like crane attachments on the front not not forks they they fit through the front door the blacksmith shop i think with like three sixteenths despair on the side
35:55.978 --> 36:05.505
[SPEAKER_01]: I swear to God, man, he was like, I think my, you know, he pulled a tape because he came to the shop first and he's like, it's going to be tight, but I think I can get him in here.
36:06.566 --> 36:11.870
[SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, and he did, man, and there wasn't really much room to spare, but they got in there.
36:12.290 --> 36:12.991
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:15.332 --> 36:29.004
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hilarious when you start to think about these weights and you're talking about 15 tons or 20 tons and then the machine that you have 3-16-7 inch to get the machine in to get this monster.
36:29.344 --> 36:30.064
[SPEAKER_02]: It's unbelievable.
36:31.486 --> 36:35.609
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm still in disbelief that we were able to do it and that everything worked.
36:35.729 --> 36:37.150
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just wild, man.
36:37.210 --> 36:37.951
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is.
36:44.112 --> 36:55.721
[SPEAKER_01]: dude literally one month from pulling the anvil out of the ground to putting the frame back over the anvil.
36:58.122 --> 37:06.809
[SPEAKER_02]: And then all of a sudden you're thinking, I would imagine you're thinking, okay, crisis-averted, but you're also probably thinking, that what?
37:08.590 --> 37:09.551
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know,
37:12.218 --> 37:36.571
[SPEAKER_01]: What a month it was, man, you know, when you get like, so lifting up the frame and moving it off to the side, it's like, then you have this hole in the ground, that's like the size of the frame, but the anvil like flares out at the bottom.
37:37.655 --> 37:45.299
[SPEAKER_01]: bigger than the hole in the ground, so then you have to cut the concrete away so that you can lift the anvil out.
37:46.319 --> 38:04.068
[SPEAKER_01]: And once you build the foundation and put the anvil in and everything, then you have to like backfill the hole with whatever you want, you know, and so what they did was from the looks of it, they backfilled it with dirt,
38:06.002 --> 38:16.630
[SPEAKER_01]: But honestly, when we lifted up the hammer, it was like 1977 flood mud, basically it was in there, which was really, really crazy.
38:17.470 --> 38:29.880
[SPEAKER_01]: But so then you have this narrow hole in the ground where the frame was, and then you have a foot or two of this 30,000 pound anvil sticking out of the dirt.
38:31.701 --> 38:56.581
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we rig up the fork lifts, you know, you can put these big pins in the side of the anvil and hook the chains up to it and he's pulling with one of these lifts that can rate like, you know, lift like 35,000 pounds and the anvil is not coming up, the fork lifts do in like an endo, like the back wheels are like two feet off the ground, you know.
38:57.342 --> 39:19.972
[SPEAKER_01]: and that and that andville's moving around in the ground it looked like a 30,000 pound loose tooth honestly it was just like oh wiggling you know so then he pulls up the other forklift and double double duties it and man you know it started it started to come up and it was like
39:20.965 --> 39:38.404
[SPEAKER_01]: But I felt like it almost never ended coming out of the ground, and everybody was just in complete, well, maybe not him because he moves machines like this all the time, but we just could not believe the size of that envelope when it came out of the ground.
39:38.484 --> 39:40.786
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just the most bonkers thing in the world.
39:41.828 --> 39:42.829
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know,
39:43.389 --> 39:59.295
[SPEAKER_01]: put that off to the side or whatever and then that's really when the real work began and so the rigor he basically you know he's like I'll I'll move the hammer for you let me know when you're done with the foundation and I'll put it back.
40:00.057 --> 40:08.163
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so then it was sort of up to us to dig out the old foundation and rebuild the new one.
40:09.024 --> 40:14.027
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, so the hammers off to the side and the animals out of the ground off to the side.
40:14.628 --> 40:20.072
[SPEAKER_01]: And basically what you're looking at is just like a big hole full of dirt in your going man.
40:20.092 --> 40:21.713
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope there's concrete under there.
40:22.434 --> 40:28.018
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, where I hope I still don't know if what's on the blueprint is what's actually under there.
40:28.778 --> 40:45.065
[SPEAKER_01]: And so then that dude Ellis, he introduced me to a Sawyer out in state college who could supply all the white oak and it was basically like, hey, I found a guy that can get you all this white oak, it'll be there in a week.
40:45.685 --> 40:50.727
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, again, I was like, all right, man, I'm not going to stop it, you know, is like,
40:51.607 --> 41:17.232
[SPEAKER_01]: the momentum just kept happening and many things to Ellis honestly for all his connections or whatever but like I wasn't who was I to be like now I'm too busy or you know we can't really work on this right now you just like let it happen and and I'm talking 14,000 pounds of white oak 12 by 12 white oak timbers got got delivered to the shop that we had to
41:22.555 --> 41:44.253
[SPEAKER_01]: to length, fill the hole under the anvil, and build the floor under the frame, and then the frame sits on these gigantic 12 by 12 timber skis, and then it all has to be sort of put back together once you even dig all the dirt out and find the concrete.
41:44.273 --> 41:47.275
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was a wild, wild one, man.
41:47.335 --> 41:47.956
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, um,
41:48.995 --> 41:51.237
[SPEAKER_01]: I just can't believe that that had happened.
41:51.677 --> 41:55.519
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I don't know, there's so much to say.
41:55.539 --> 42:10.309
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, and then all this massive, I'm thinking of, I'm thinking when you're talking about pulling the envelope, it almost reminded me of like, what, when you see an iceberg, you only see the little bit of the water.
42:10.709 --> 42:15.953
[SPEAKER_02]: And then just like, you have no idea how much massive amounts of is under the water.
42:15.993 --> 42:17.394
[SPEAKER_02]: I can only think of, it's kind of like that.
42:18.384 --> 42:31.681
[SPEAKER_01]: And the dirt man, the dirt on the anvil, was so like caked on there that you had to scrape it off with a hammer drill, like on the hammer function with like a three inch chisel.
42:34.187 --> 42:54.670
[SPEAKER_01]: you know you couldn't like break it off with a steel rake or scrape it off with a shovel it was so kicked on there you know we we took turns but i think basically there for eight hours uh... just with a big you know that camera for the most people all yeah hammer drill
42:55.371 --> 43:15.860
[SPEAKER_01]: with a three inch chisel on it just on the hammer function just like flating all this old mud off of this thirty thousand pound solid like steel block it was new's bonkers the bonkers part is before you noticed it you thought all right we're ready to go and now all of a sudden it's the real Odyssey
43:17.120 --> 43:27.749
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah yeah in that that was it man like the other shoot dropped i was like well this is exactly what i was worried about and i you know and this is the third hammer the other two
43:28.757 --> 43:37.542
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I know the 3,000 does have some foundation issues, but I've restored these hammers without having to rebuild a foundation.
43:38.123 --> 43:46.788
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the newest hammer in the shop, so I didn't think for the life of me that would have the worst condition foundation, you know what I mean?
43:46.908 --> 43:50.130
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it was definitely a shock.
43:54.072 --> 44:09.137
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was, it was an amazing experience, man, and it just can't, can't believe we did it, but it was like every morning, working on it, and, you know, mainly,
44:10.457 --> 44:28.877
[SPEAKER_01]: lots of thinking, planning, creating cut lists, the timbers, like referencing the blue prints and making sure that all the timbers were staged in the right place because you have to build everything like in that octagon around those hammers and with one fork left in a end.
44:31.031 --> 44:40.202
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, it took a lot and the foundation, the wood foundation is a lot wider than the whole that everything came out of.
44:40.282 --> 44:51.214
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had to excavate like a bigger hole in the shop and then, you know, fortunately we were able to get a power shovel through the door, like a mini excavator.
44:52.555 --> 45:12.305
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I had these tippy dump bins, and we were just like digging and filling bins and taking them out with the fork lift and back and forth and back and forth until we we revealed the exact concrete that was in the blueprint and the exact same dimensions.
45:13.385 --> 45:20.069
[SPEAKER_01]: It was in great condition and we were just a static now, and that we
45:20.849 --> 45:49.322
[SPEAKER_01]: we found what was actually in there and we had the white oak to do the rebuilding and so then we started you know just start start from the anvil right that's the deepest part and start building up from there and so basically the anvil sits on three and a half feet of solid white oak timbers with you know four or five feet of concrete under that and so just started building that white oak pyramid
45:50.365 --> 46:01.328
[SPEAKER_01]: and what that took was, you know, lots of cutting to size, but then all of the each course of the pyramid had to be sort of bolted together.
46:01.428 --> 46:14.011
[SPEAKER_01]: So you had to, you know, drill big holes through each wide oak timber and then make the, make the hardware or whatever to slide through all the timber and then bolt them together.
46:14.051 --> 46:15.012
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, the,
46:16.212 --> 46:31.744
[SPEAKER_01]: the plans call for creosoded timbers you know but we didn't really do that but we were able to cover them with something that would really help I think help them not rod in the ground to keep the bugs out that was um
46:32.725 --> 46:35.986
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, not terrible for the environment of course and stuff like that.
46:36.046 --> 46:56.811
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was just like and then and then what how do you you know lower these courses of timbers into that hole, you know Get an accranity attachment for our foreclift and and rigging chains and it just was a it was a wild ride man I'm I'm trying to think how did you what how did you cut the timber chainsaws?
47:00.165 --> 47:04.550
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it didn't have to be like a nice, you know, like square cotton.
47:05.231 --> 47:07.634
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing really got but joined it together.
47:07.714 --> 47:16.885
[SPEAKER_01]: So everything was every, every course was just like a row of timbers so they could be sort of like rough cut, you know what I mean?
47:17.797 --> 47:28.843
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you're low, so that at least you're able, from once the rigor show up, you're able to do all the cleanup with you and your own crew as opposed to having to hire other people.
47:29.364 --> 47:34.366
[SPEAKER_02]: You're able to kind of, I mean, I mean, like an outsourced out sourcing a company or something like that.
47:35.007 --> 47:45.273
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're in kind of in control of the timbers and everything else and I would imagine that it's just all day long, every day has got this one monumental task.
47:46.373 --> 47:50.536
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would think in my mind, I would think God, this is never going to end.
47:51.457 --> 48:00.504
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I did sort of at times think that, but there are lots of times where mostly my mindset was like, I can't believe this is happening.
48:01.618 --> 48:06.559
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like every week, we made monumental progress.
48:06.780 --> 48:17.223
[SPEAKER_01]: And so basically, like, and you know, Ellis was really helpful because he would also, you know, come out here once or twice a week for the whole month.
48:17.703 --> 48:21.024
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's a really hard, efficient worker.
48:21.844 --> 48:39.295
[SPEAKER_01]: and so there was you know all all week you know myself and one of the passport program participants this guy on we would work basically getting ready for when Ellis would get here and that would be like
48:40.355 --> 49:09.382
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, cutting timbers or digging or removing dirt or cleaning concrete or like simply doing math or You know, there's so much like back-end work to do planning work before somebody comes here and so we would do all that and then Alice would come and then we'd get a ton of work done And we just like you know kind of just did it in like chunks and I think one of my strengths is I'm really good at like
49:10.403 --> 49:27.779
[SPEAKER_01]: focusing on one thing at a time in sort of compartmentalizing like a bigger project like this and it's like, you know, are the threaded, are the studs that are coming out of the concrete reusable and as an example, it's like,
49:28.488 --> 49:32.470
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it doesn't matter, we're not there yet.
49:32.731 --> 49:42.777
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's focus on the Anvil Timbers, and then once we fill that hole, we can transition mentally over to like, what do we do with these fasteners?
49:42.817 --> 49:43.918
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we straighten them out?
49:44.038 --> 49:46.599
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we chase the threads with a tap?
49:47.180 --> 49:51.762
[SPEAKER_01]: Or do we cut them and move the location a little bit and stuff like that?
49:53.283 --> 50:12.802
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it seems like each week we like sort of accomplished a pretty major like chunk of what it took to rebuild this foundation until Until everything was in place And we were ready for the rigors to come back and now that moment is incredibly stressful because
50:13.823 --> 50:34.214
[SPEAKER_01]: installing a two-piece hammer as some of your listeners probably know it's an incredibly complicated and there's a lot at stake sort of math problem because you know everything has to be in the right place so that when you put the anvil in the ground that the frame goes back on top.
50:35.094 --> 50:42.261
[SPEAKER_01]: and over slides over the anvil with an even gap between the frame and the anvil.
50:43.082 --> 50:58.137
[SPEAKER_01]: And then also your stud location matches the holes in the frame, but then more importantly also the height of your frame and the height of your anvil.
50:59.302 --> 51:13.993
[SPEAKER_01]: are so that at rest, you know, the dies touch with like an inch or whatever you decide of spare room before you crash the ram flange on the frame, you know what I mean?
51:15.503 --> 51:24.690
[SPEAKER_02]: This to me, well, number one, I just want to say I think that you have this, you know, you probably don't realize it, but you have a very excellent coping mechanism for not being overwhelmed.
51:25.270 --> 51:37.880
[SPEAKER_02]: The idea of like not focusing on the whole picture, but like one thing at a time, most likely keeps your nerves and, you know, it's a coping mechanism to make sure you're not overwhelmed, which is, which would probably be crippling.
51:38.440 --> 52:05.197
[SPEAKER_02]: But the other thing is that all I can think of is the hammer is going to spit back on to the studs It's the hammer is going to fit where it's fits obviously you can move it I it was trying to think while you were talking about it And all how do you adjust the end this you're going to put this goddamn iceberg back in the ground How do you that's the adjustment right I mean isn't that really I mean once you drop it in you know 15 tons of Andville
52:05.817 --> 52:08.482
[SPEAKER_02]: There's not a lot of room that, hey, you think we could shim it up a little bit.
52:08.542 --> 52:12.549
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know how you adjust for adjustment.
52:13.542 --> 52:37.392
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no adjustment, you have to nail it, and there's ways to help with that as far as where the Anvil is, and you're sort of like X, Y, access of the entire project, and so after the three feet of Anvil Timbers, you know, the pyramid that the Anvil sits on,
52:38.192 --> 52:45.874
[SPEAKER_01]: when in the blueprint called for what they call leveling timbers or a leveling course.
52:46.254 --> 52:59.438
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, based on the height of your frame, it dictates the thickness of your leveling timbers so that when everything comes together, you don't crash the ram accidentally.
53:00.678 --> 53:05.300
[SPEAKER_01]: But so those those go those are like the exact footprint.
53:06.240 --> 53:07.760
[SPEAKER_01]: of the bottom of the anvil.
53:07.820 --> 53:19.784
[SPEAKER_01]: Now up to this point, the top course of the pyramid is bigger than the footprint of the anvil, and so you use the leveling course to sort of like center yourself.
53:20.604 --> 53:27.986
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you lay that out on the top course of the pyramid, and then you frame that in with bigger timbers.
53:28.486 --> 53:34.668
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's like a bit of a set down that the anvil kind of like rests inside.
53:36.702 --> 53:39.123
[SPEAKER_01]: and you just have to put that in the middle.
53:39.483 --> 53:44.805
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have to use your brain, your eyes, and your hands to make sure you do it right.
53:45.105 --> 53:49.547
[SPEAKER_02]: Without the blueprints, you would have really been shrugging.
53:50.307 --> 53:51.108
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have been lost.
53:51.288 --> 53:58.211
[SPEAKER_01]: It would have been like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and expects to know the plot, you know?
54:01.612 --> 54:02.412
[SPEAKER_02]: How did you do it?
54:05.235 --> 54:15.787
[SPEAKER_02]: How did you, with you follow the instructions to add it with tons and tons, and the rigors, yucky, certainly the rigors say, okay, you put the, put the ankle back in.
54:16.928 --> 54:22.033
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, yeah, put, cross your fingers, and then, yeah, and then, fingers crossed, yeah.
54:22.694 --> 54:25.157
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, like, even, even before then,
54:26.855 --> 54:50.341
[SPEAKER_01]: you know you basically have like a gigantic slot in the ground between two gigantic concrete pears that the that the anvil timber sit in and then and then once you put the top course of the the anvil pyramid and you got to like backfill backfill around it so that you know
54:52.902 --> 55:04.235
[SPEAKER_01]: to a modified or something where you could, you know, fill it up, to wet it down and tamp it and it gets really hard and compact and stuff like that and then
55:05.957 --> 55:15.307
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, uh, and then from there on out, and yeah, so they come back to put the Anvil and the Hammer on the Anvil as you look first.
55:16.048 --> 55:26.379
[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll have to go in first, yep, and so it does, and that's a really amazing and credible thing, but then sort of I feel like comes.
55:28.420 --> 55:40.703
[SPEAKER_01]: The moment of truth, which is, you know, is the frame going to fit over that and be, you know, in the right position for the hardware that bolts the frame to the foundation.
55:43.104 --> 55:46.905
[SPEAKER_01]: And did I calculate my distances right between the...
55:47.705 --> 55:53.747
[SPEAKER_01]: and they'll, uh, bottom die in the top die, basically, of which the bottom die is not in the end, they'll at this point.
55:53.767 --> 56:05.991
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're still, you know, just kind of hoping that everything's right and, and measuring as you go and taking big size of relief every step of the way and and all that kind of stuff.
56:07.532 --> 56:12.453
[SPEAKER_02]: I, and are you, are you, so when the, are you taking measurements
56:15.952 --> 56:39.029
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah that's what's the point i mean at a certain point you can't change anything so you're just sort of committed i mean you do i mean if you catch something before the frame goes on that you need to fix that's really good of course because you don't have to put the frame on that day i mean you know that would have probably been more crippling than noticing that the
56:45.393 --> 56:59.859
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, of course, you're conscious of all that stuff, but to be honest, like, these rigger dudes, the man they made, moving that frame, it was incredibly easy and like no big deal, right?
56:59.879 --> 57:11.323
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like that feeling in and of itself in a shop like the octagon, having a resource like that that your friends with and stuff now is just it.
57:11.443 --> 57:11.663
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an
57:12.323 --> 57:38.477
[SPEAKER_01]: incredibly empowering feeling and you know and I'm not even doing any of the work but it's like you know the 3,000 for instance it it leans a little bit so I've you know got a hunch that there's something wrong with the foundation now the thought of moving that hammer and rebuilding that foundation isn't so incredibly daunting anymore you know
57:43.361 --> 57:44.221
[SPEAKER_02]: I had no idea.
57:45.402 --> 57:52.225
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw every time I see some stories and you pull the hatch off the top and it was appearing into the motor.
57:52.426 --> 58:00.630
[SPEAKER_02]: Then a few months later, all of a sudden there's this big excavation hole with some timbers and I think, well, he's under control.
58:00.650 --> 58:12.236
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't realize, it never realized to me that it was this huge step back and how do you problem solve this unforeseen thing that you are really dreading not to happen
58:14.988 --> 58:35.948
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah it was amazing and I think you know what really made it possible besides the help and the connections from Alice in the forward momentum and honestly it was more than just Alice honestly but if I was to start naming everybody we'd be here for the rest of the podcast but um
58:36.729 --> 58:55.934
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the fact that the concrete was there and not sort of hadn't really moved or shifted or sunk and didn't need to be replaced or repired or anything like that, I think was really what made it possible.
58:55.994 --> 59:02.875
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if I had to do, you know, all the concrete work for the foundation as well,
59:05.886 --> 59:18.903
[SPEAKER_02]: that we wouldn't uh... we wouldn't have been able to do it in the time frame necessary so uh... at a curiosity why i mean just for my i mean why do they specify white oak
59:20.665 --> 59:44.020
[SPEAKER_01]: i mean i think it's hard but it also it has the right you know amount of shock absorption uh... necessary to not just damage the concrete or or hammer the concrete deeper into the ground or or whatever it's a it's a question that i don't really know exactly what the right answer is because i'm not an engineer
59:44.220 --> 59:46.502
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, not just the white oak, but just wooden general.
59:46.702 --> 59:51.085
[SPEAKER_02]: It's meant to accept some degree of shock.
59:51.986 --> 59:53.067
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
59:53.187 --> 01:00:03.414
[SPEAKER_01]: But to be honest, there was a moment before I pulled the trigger on the white oak, where I had considered using a more modern shock absorbing product.
01:00:04.595 --> 01:00:08.038
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I think it's called like, for Preka or something, where
01:00:08.858 --> 01:00:30.554
[SPEAKER_01]: the industry, the forging industry has obviously moved away from white oak and uses a more modern engineered product to provide the same shock absorption as the white oak, but it doesn't, you don't need as much of it as far as like
01:00:31.455 --> 01:00:32.756
[SPEAKER_01]: mass, you know what I mean?
01:00:32.796 --> 01:00:52.908
[SPEAKER_01]: So where is like, uh, and I'm just making shit up at this point because I don't have my notes in front of me, but like if I needed three feet of white oak under the anvil, you know, the amount of for brica I would have needed would be like ten inches, or eight inches, or twelve inches, or, you know, I mean the, the amount of material was much
01:01:00.932 --> 01:01:30.018
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm thinking like, you know, I'm struggling with, you do we have the ability, capacity and time to do all this woodwork or is it faster and simpler to have, you know, my concrete guy come here and just fill the anvil hole with two and a half feet of concrete that will level itself and then put this for brick a pad on and go from there, you know.
01:01:31.158 --> 01:01:54.170
[SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, you know, because the way things worked out for this particular project, I went with the white oak, and it was much more affordable, it provided us with much more labor that we needed to have, to do it, but the affordability was really attractive,
01:01:59.012 --> 01:02:22.480
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I kind of want to honor this 1940 blueprint, you know what I mean and do it that way and now I know there's no roof leak above the hammer I can't say for sure if there's going to be a flood coming up here any time soon, you know, but like I have a feeling that that foundation You know will be there in good working order now for a hundred years, right in this like
01:02:23.040 --> 01:02:23.981
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I did it.
01:02:24.501 --> 01:02:30.066
[SPEAKER_01]: I honored that drawing the same way that Bethlehem steel did it in 1941.
01:02:30.726 --> 01:02:32.828
[SPEAKER_01]: The way Chambersburg wanted you to do it.
01:02:32.868 --> 01:02:36.691
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, there's something about that that makes me feel really, really good.
01:02:36.931 --> 01:02:44.337
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, our friend Danny made this really small model of the foundation.
01:02:44.357 --> 01:02:48.421
[SPEAKER_01]: Because once we put the hammer back and back filled the hole,
01:02:49.553 --> 01:02:54.811
[SPEAKER_01]: everybody was like well now nobody's gonna know like like all that work we did it was really like
01:02:56.926 --> 01:03:23.113
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a great topic of conversation, it was really fun to show everybody what it takes to like, you know, install a hammer of this size and everything, and so we, now sitting right next to the hammer, we have a miniature scale model of the foundation, concrete, dirt, you know, small miniature white oak timbers, and then above that we, we have hung the original blueprint, so that,
01:03:23.793 --> 01:03:28.326
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, could because CMA is like a preservation sort of organization.
01:03:29.187 --> 01:03:54.336
[SPEAKER_01]: and we're open to the public and we're proud of the work we do, it's really fun when you're showing people around students or tours or the public or whatever to talk about when you talk about the restoration work, you're doing to be able to point to an existing miniature model and the actual blueprints and say like, that's exactly what's under there and then people can
01:03:56.978 --> 01:04:21.778
[SPEAKER_02]: you know a visual to that even though the scale is smaller and you can just be like well imagine that it's like 10 feet you know what I mean and stuff like that so but it makes sense I mean it makes sense that you have this blueprint you follow the directions that they wanted and why don't if it was good enough for them back then I mean obviously you know that they probably put it together not thinking there was going to be as much water damage
01:04:22.438 --> 01:04:35.331
[SPEAKER_02]: But it makes a whole lot of sense, and it seems as though it kind of kills the doubt to a certain degree too because you're not making any assumptions based off of this new product versus the way they originally did it.
01:04:36.636 --> 01:04:58.557
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah cause the new product meant engineers right so it's like well how you know how heavy is the ram how hard is the blow you know how thick is the concrete like you know tell me all that and then i could tell you how thick of a for preca pad you needed and i'm like you just okay i i i mean i now what now i got a
01:04:59.177 --> 01:05:09.942
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I got to figure out, you know, the distance of the travel and the weight of the RAM and the speed at which it goes to tell you how hard it's going to be, who do I have to call for that?
01:05:10.002 --> 01:05:12.163
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm just a blacksmith, you know?
01:05:13.183 --> 01:05:22.807
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, thinking about all that, but like having the directions for Chambersburg Foundation right in front of you, you're like, well, I'll just follow this.
01:05:23.433 --> 01:05:36.523
[SPEAKER_02]: It is incredible that they also, there wasn't a lot of like, when you think of installation, sometimes you have to be a little bit spontaneous in regards to some things happen and you have to make a decision in the heat of the moment.
01:05:37.063 --> 01:05:41.366
[SPEAKER_02]: It seems as though everything worked out exactly the way it was supposed to work out.
01:05:43.408 --> 01:05:48.431
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess it did, and you know, I think back on it, and I think like, well, that,
01:05:49.560 --> 01:06:13.006
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a crazy month and you know, there was a lot of stuff in my life that got neglected because of this hammer frame like, you know, my relationship builds stuff at the house like everything got put on hold and nothing mattered, but this foundation.
01:06:13.386 --> 01:06:15.307
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if that's a
01:06:16.107 --> 01:06:37.317
[SPEAKER_01]: a skill of mine or a character flaw, but I can get very hyper-focused on one thing and easily not consider anything else in my life until the thing that I'm working on is completed to the level of satisfaction and quality that I want it to be.
01:06:38.657 --> 01:07:03.200
[SPEAKER_01]: And for this particular instance, I think it was really good because now we don't have a hole in the ground or a hammer that's off to the side or a project that's going to linger and linger because you know at a certain point other things at CMA like do come up that I have to focus on and
01:07:04.141 --> 01:07:26.228
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just so incredibly happy that it's done, like it feels like a brand new hammer with a brand new foundation That's ready to rock as soon as I get a generator over here or I get permanent power to that building And that's just an incredible feeling, not to mention, you know, when you think about CMA moving here
01:07:26.888 --> 01:07:43.957
[SPEAKER_01]: And you walk into that octagon, and you see all these like sleeping giants and a building with no power and no gas and crumbling furnaces, and you go, man, I wonder how long it's going to take to get some of this stuff up and running.
01:07:46.758 --> 01:08:01.068
[SPEAKER_01]: in less than 10 years, all of the hammers in the octagon are fully functional and basically turnkey at this point with two, you know, functioning furnaces.
01:08:02.169 --> 01:08:22.686
[SPEAKER_01]: plenty of cranes and enough hand tools to make all kinds of good stuff in there at this point and facilitate all of the research that we're doing and growing our educational programs and stuff so I just feel really proud of CMA and you know proud of the community at large.
01:08:22.766 --> 01:08:24.588
[SPEAKER_01]: I keep talking about it man but it is
01:08:26.001 --> 01:08:46.678
[SPEAKER_01]: it is something to be proud of and it is something that I think everybody should feel proud of you know and it's like I really hope that everybody who contributed to this fundraiser or to the restoration of this hammer like whether you donated $10,000 or $1 or
01:08:49.724 --> 01:09:12.304
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, shovel one bucket of dirt out of the hole or, you know, got me in touch with the rigors like everybody should feel a sense of pride or ownership over the fact that this hammer now runs again and is in the condition to run for the rest of our lives,
01:09:16.807 --> 01:09:32.919
[SPEAKER_01]: benefit a lot of aspiring blacksmiths, educational programs and you know whatever sort of work or you know I consider meaningful work that we're doing at CMA and it's just a incredible feeling.
01:09:33.713 --> 01:09:39.914
[SPEAKER_02]: It is amazing and it's fantastic and it's shocking, frankly.
01:09:40.374 --> 01:09:56.178
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember when you came to my shop before you moved down there and I remember and I'm sitting in the shop and I remember having our conversations of sitting where we had this conversation before you started anything and the momentum and the work that you've done
01:09:57.518 --> 01:10:19.743
[SPEAKER_02]: is is nothing short of incredible every time I go down there I'm always I always say these I can't believe how much you you get done with those such a small amount of people frankly and it is it is amazing um I wonder that seems to be like in terms of all the restoration projects you've had to done it it probably was the I would think and maybe I'm wrong
01:10:20.223 --> 01:10:30.045
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember you telling me that you used to go in every morning with a cup of coffee and a can of PB blaster and you just sprayed on one of the utility hammers down and I picture it.
01:10:30.385 --> 01:10:36.246
[SPEAKER_02]: The sun kind of the sun coming up and you're just walking in the coffee and you're spraying the PB blaster all over the thing.
01:10:36.786 --> 01:10:44.948
[SPEAKER_02]: I would imagine this is the most amount of work to do a restoration project in that space and I'm wondering
01:10:46.722 --> 01:11:01.944
[SPEAKER_02]: has this change, this experience, given you more confidence in more restoration, or if you get confidence in terms of fixing the problems that need to be fixed, you're not as overwhelmed by the thought of what needs to go into it.
01:11:03.020 --> 01:11:23.573
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I'm much more confident and like I have always looked at the way the 3000 leans and thought, oh my god, I can't believe some day, you know, we're going to have to address this foundation and that to me was a crippling thought that's no longer crippling, like at all and, you know, that's an amazing feeling.
01:11:25.700 --> 01:11:30.521
[SPEAKER_01]: because I want to do that shop in those hammers, you know, justice.
01:11:30.581 --> 01:11:52.106
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think like, when I look at the 3000 and it has that little bit of a lean to it, you know, the only thing that gives me confidence in running it with the lean on it is because, you know, the research I've done indicates that it's had that lean for quite a
01:11:56.467 --> 01:12:18.159
[SPEAKER_01]: with it leaning a little bit as well and so also like that's not to discredit the fact that you probably shouldn't be running a hammer that leans a little bit you know you want that machine to be plumb and everything to be you know hitting plumb and and square and all that kind of stuff and
01:12:19.153 --> 01:12:25.136
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the bottom die is custom machine to the top die to account for the lean and everything.
01:12:25.216 --> 01:12:31.600
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I feel like we're not doing any damage by running it the amount we're running it.
01:12:32.280 --> 01:12:35.722
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do want to straighten it up, and I do want to plummet.
01:12:36.523 --> 01:12:41.105
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's, you know, that's really honoring that machine and its legacy.
01:12:41.285 --> 01:12:46.388
[SPEAKER_01]: And now the thought of doing that is like, oh, okay, we're just going to do that, right?
01:12:47.043 --> 01:12:58.327
[SPEAKER_01]: and now that the 2,000's running and the 4,000, I feel like we can move the 3,000 and not be completely unable to work in there.
01:12:58.367 --> 01:13:00.068
[SPEAKER_01]: You still have two functional hammers.
01:13:00.628 --> 01:13:15.193
[SPEAKER_01]: So when the time comes, I don't think it's going to be such a crazy like turnaround or, you know, insane effort to like get it done, you know, maybe we could take our time with it a little bit and not stress people out or,
01:13:15.853 --> 01:13:23.444
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, neglect other parts of your life because of it, but doing it no longer feels like this incredibly daunting task, you know.
01:13:23.644 --> 01:13:28.411
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're not going to have the daunting task of having to get it finished before a class starts.
01:13:29.340 --> 01:13:30.341
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hopefully not.
01:13:30.381 --> 01:13:30.941
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
01:13:31.421 --> 01:13:32.281
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, PS.
01:13:33.642 --> 01:13:34.643
[SPEAKER_02]: We got to do a part two.
01:13:35.803 --> 01:13:39.065
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree, man, because I do want to talk about the sculpture, I think.
01:13:39.185 --> 01:13:40.686
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to get this.
01:13:41.446 --> 01:13:47.269
[SPEAKER_01]: This collaborative sculpture class was the best workshop I've ever taught in my life.
01:13:48.229 --> 01:13:52.712
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really want to talk about it, because I'm super excited about it, but I agree.
01:13:54.072 --> 01:13:56.714
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to just stab it in at the end.
01:13:56.754 --> 01:14:00.416
[SPEAKER_02]: I already thought we're going to talk a little bit more about what's been going on.
01:14:00.896 --> 01:14:05.078
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you got Jesse Savage coming in next week and I'm hoping to get you in for part two.
01:14:05.918 --> 01:14:06.279
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.
01:14:06.419 --> 01:14:06.539
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:14:06.559 --> 01:14:07.499
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that'd be fun.
01:14:07.659 --> 01:14:08.020
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:14:08.540 --> 01:14:10.001
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah.
01:14:10.301 --> 01:14:13.542
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it is, I mean, once again, it is incredible.
01:14:13.903 --> 01:14:21.747
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's, so if you were to get the, how would you get the blue, because now all of a sudden you're just like, well, I got to get the blue prince.
01:14:22.367 --> 01:14:25.190
[SPEAKER_02]: To fix the to fix the utility hammer.
01:14:25.251 --> 01:14:26.192
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I got him.
01:14:26.452 --> 01:14:27.413
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you have them already.
01:14:28.034 --> 01:14:28.354
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
01:14:28.554 --> 01:14:33.060
[SPEAKER_02]: So you know what's going on under the foundation 100% is it's similar.
01:14:33.080 --> 01:14:35.082
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's similar.
01:14:35.643 --> 01:14:36.183
[SPEAKER_01]: It's similar.
01:14:36.243 --> 01:14:36.624
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not
01:14:38.294 --> 01:14:43.475
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the footprint of a utility hammer is not the same as a footprint of a self-contained hammer.
01:14:43.535 --> 01:14:50.457
[SPEAKER_01]: So to a certain extent, it's like from a massive scale, it's a little bit smaller.
01:14:50.597 --> 01:14:57.319
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't mean it's not as deep, but, you know, the footprint isn't quite as big.
01:14:59.463 --> 01:15:00.563
[SPEAKER_02]: That's unbelievable.
01:15:01.304 --> 01:15:10.168
[SPEAKER_01]: So, we'll hope that when we dig it up, we see exactly what's on the blueprint, just like we did with the 2000s.
01:15:10.348 --> 01:15:23.073
[SPEAKER_02]: So the self-contained fits, you have the eureka moment, the machine, it comes down, they what's your thoughts when the RAM comes down and then they're close to the dice.
01:15:23.393 --> 01:15:24.174
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly, it's exact.
01:15:24.434 --> 01:15:26.995
[SPEAKER_02]: Within how much tolerance is there?
01:15:27.755 --> 01:15:32.078
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, I, uh, there was two distinct feelings at that moment.
01:15:32.298 --> 01:15:43.724
[SPEAKER_01]: One was, um, you know, I, I, I, on my other hammers like my nasal and, and other air hammers that I'm used to running.
01:15:44.998 --> 01:15:48.440
[SPEAKER_01]: You have the anvil in the south block and the bottom die.
01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:54.104
[SPEAKER_01]: And the dovetails between the anvil in the south block run in one direction.
01:15:54.684 --> 01:15:59.607
[SPEAKER_01]: And the dovetails between the south block and the bottom die run in another direction.
01:15:59.707 --> 01:16:00.347
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have
01:16:01.348 --> 01:16:29.075
[SPEAKER_01]: sort of ultimate adjustability on your x, y-axis so that when you put the hammer down over the anvil, if the top die rests on the bottom die and it's a quarter inch off or whatever you loosen all your die keys and you you slide this outblock and whatever direction you need and you slide the die and whatever direction you need and you can ultimately center your bottom
01:16:31.079 --> 01:16:54.802
[SPEAKER_01]: and i think that gives me a warm fuzzy feeling when it comes to doing that math problem and all the work it takes to like install a two-piece hammer blah blah blah for some reason chambersburgs both the south block dovetail and the die dovetail are in the same direction so you only have a just ability left and right
01:16:55.606 --> 01:16:58.067
[SPEAKER_01]: you do not have a just ability front and back.
01:16:58.768 --> 01:17:17.578
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when the rigor was here putting the hammer down back over the anvil, you know, my biggest fear was, what if it comes down and the bottom die is like a quarter inch or a half inch off in the front to back orientation, like an under by, you know,
01:17:18.292 --> 01:17:40.209
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah or or an overbite like I don't I don't really have much in the way of adjustability without making new dikes or using shims or or something that you know didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy inside and so when the when the hammer went down and it was just about perfect
01:17:46.676 --> 01:18:08.267
[SPEAKER_01]: And because I was really scared because you know me man everything has to be just so right and if it's not just so I'm going to lose a lot of sleep and a lot of hair and all that kind of stuff over it and so and so I know the rigors too like as helpful as they are I was really self conscious of asking them to
01:18:09.367 --> 01:18:20.731
[SPEAKER_01]: the hammer up again and try to shimmy it, you know, three, sixteen, certain eighth of an inch, like a 40,000 pound machine, just kind of bump it a little bit.
01:18:21.672 --> 01:18:29.855
[SPEAKER_01]: So when it came down and it sort of was really well lined up, I breathed a huge sigh of relief, so that was an amazing feeling.
01:18:31.102 --> 01:18:45.144
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... but on the drawings on the blueprints it's said uh... you know install your anvil two inches higher then your desired height to allow for settling
01:18:47.578 --> 01:19:07.185
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I did that, and so immediately I was like really scared that the anvil was too high, and that I was going to lose like two inches of stroke from the top die and the ram, or that the working height was going to be a little funny.
01:19:07.965 --> 01:19:11.389
[SPEAKER_01]: But that quickly sort of went went away.
01:19:11.449 --> 01:19:30.027
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean the Anvil has not settled two inches over the course of how much we've used the hammer by any means And even if it doesn't quite settle two inches, it's still a good working height and I still have plenty of stroke in the hammer and stuff like that So the settle the anvil of the whole thing
01:19:31.773 --> 01:19:50.458
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the whole thing, but like I'm not sure if they're referring to, you know, the wood shrinking a little bit or everything just getting compacted over time or what and the funny thing is I did actually call the engineers over there that sent me the drawing.
01:19:51.358 --> 01:20:14.956
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, what do you mean by, you know, what, yeah, like exactly what you said, what's what's going to settle here like should I do what this note says what this handwritten note says on these 1940 blueprints and they were actually unsure because they didn't make the drawing, you know, that's what is that 80 years ago.
01:20:16.936 --> 01:20:35.423
[SPEAKER_01]: And they didn't get back to me, and I just ultimately had to make the decision, and so I decided to put that and build a little bit higher, thinking that they're probably will be some settling, and that'll give me plenty of time to like resurface dies if I need to, and stuff like that.
01:20:35.483 --> 01:20:44.527
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, the initial set down, I was like, whoa, that's high, but it hasn't affected anything, so I'm really happy with the decision.
01:20:46.583 --> 01:21:05.233
[SPEAKER_02]: sigh relief now yeah totally the operation of it so the utility hammers you have a driver and then you have your blacksmiths who are doing different things what's the operation for the self-contained hammer like how what how's the team look what does the team look like
01:21:07.073 --> 01:21:16.406
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... well the driver's job is a little bit easier because basically it runs just like any other self-contained hammer except it doesn't have a pedal so
01:21:18.637 --> 01:21:34.305
[SPEAKER_01]: So you need a driver that operates the handle, but there's only one handle, there's not two, and basically just like the pedal, the farther back, the farther back, you pull it, just like the harder you step on it.
01:21:35.005 --> 01:21:37.506
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the harder it hits, and so,
01:21:39.049 --> 01:21:57.774
[SPEAKER_01]: to a certain degree it does not take as much nuance or training to run this hammer like if your familiar with self-contained hammers as most of us are, there's almost no learning curve in that respect.
01:21:58.735 --> 01:22:02.176
[SPEAKER_01]: The only difference is the way like these hammers are engineered
01:22:07.773 --> 01:22:15.675
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when the hammer turns on and starts running, the die parks way up into the ram.
01:22:15.755 --> 01:22:19.236
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't like the newer style any angues and stuff.
01:22:19.276 --> 01:22:22.657
[SPEAKER_01]: They hang out, you know, they don't go up into the cylinder.
01:22:24.877 --> 01:22:32.759
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can't see the top die when you approach the hammer to drive it, right?
01:22:32.779 --> 01:22:34.540
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you've got to pull back on,
01:22:35.460 --> 01:22:50.985
[SPEAKER_01]: on the handle, far enough to get the hammer reciprocating, and then enough to see the top die, but it happens really fast.
01:22:51.726 --> 01:22:55.167
[SPEAKER_01]: It is faster than everybody expected, so it's like
01:22:55.907 --> 01:23:15.711
[SPEAKER_01]: that window of distance that the handle goes from not seeing the the ram at all to it striking really hard is very narrow and then the first time it came out of the cylinder everybody was like whoa oh my god that was fast all right and like you better be careful because
01:23:16.751 --> 01:23:41.411
[SPEAKER_01]: you know that's 2000 pounds coming out coming out there coming out the gate pretty quick so that was basically the biggest learning curve but one of our past board students Colin was the driver during the workshop and stuff and picked it up pretty quick so you know that's that's sort of it in a nutshell but I won't get too involved in this but you know the forgings
01:23:44.937 --> 01:23:48.374
[SPEAKER_01]: We needed like five other people on the handling tools.
01:23:48.901 --> 01:23:58.183
[SPEAKER_02]: So, the other thing is, is this self-contained hammer, I would imagine because it's similar to what people would think of like anying or something like that.
01:23:58.743 --> 01:24:07.526
[SPEAKER_02]: This was kind of more a four drawing stuff out and maybe not using top tools as much considering you have the other two utility hammers.
01:24:07.546 --> 01:24:16.548
[SPEAKER_02]: It seems like you have pretty dialed in for those big lumbering hits as opposed to being able to do long tapers
01:24:18.389 --> 01:24:40.198
[SPEAKER_01]: you're a 100% right and that's what I was speaking about earlier about it filling a need in that shop that was a little bit more difficult to do with the utility hammers so you know having the utility hammers for you know tooling single blow stuff set down packing straightening and then having the uh...
01:24:41.058 --> 01:24:55.345
[SPEAKER_01]: the self-contained hammer, more for drawing out, making tapers, not necessarily for tooling, is really sort of how I see that fitting in in that sort of shop and the kind of work we do.
01:24:57.768 --> 01:25:07.453
[SPEAKER_02]: it would seem to me looking at the sculpture you guys made that without that capacity for drawing out for a year of long, year of long sections.
01:25:07.473 --> 01:25:15.698
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to get into it but you have long sections that that self-contained hammer was crucial to the finished product of that sculpture.
01:25:16.850 --> 01:25:44.300
[SPEAKER_01]: right and that's that's what the you know the timing of everything was all about and i thought to myself like well i could i could do those long sections on the three thousand but it won't be ideal so i didn't ever feel like if we didn't get the the foundation done that we weren't going to create the sculpture but i definitely designed that section around right use of the two thousand and under that ladies and gentlemen is a radio tease
01:25:44.920 --> 01:25:47.621
[SPEAKER_02]: because I don't want to talk about that sculpture anymore.
01:25:48.121 --> 01:25:59.363
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to talk about it all day, but just like, I mean, all of the last night and stuff like that, but this was far more interesting because this is the precursor to how that sculpture became, you know, and I agree.
01:25:59.383 --> 01:26:08.925
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't, we couldn't really talk about the sculpture without covering all this and I, and I, and I, and I, I was looking at the clock in about 30 minutes in, I'm like,
01:26:09.385 --> 01:26:10.926
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're not going to let's go try again.
01:26:11.306 --> 01:26:19.488
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I felt like there was a moment where you were like, all right, let's get to the, are you running it and I was like, no, no, I can't get to it.
01:26:19.508 --> 01:26:20.148
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no.
01:26:20.168 --> 01:26:21.009
[SPEAKER_01]: So much more to say.
01:26:21.329 --> 01:26:22.789
[SPEAKER_02]: We've done this enough, I know all about it.
01:26:24.390 --> 01:26:30.372
[SPEAKER_02]: Just in closing, what's amazing is, you know, obviously we're going to talk about it in two weeks.
01:26:30.392 --> 01:26:31.572
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to do part two, two weeks.
01:26:32.540 --> 01:26:41.691
[SPEAKER_02]: The most amazing part is you, you, your, I see your sculpture as your sculpture as being informed by the process.
01:26:42.172 --> 01:26:50.142
[SPEAKER_02]: I see your sculpture as, when I look at the, the catalog of your work, I have someone looking at some right now in my shop.
01:26:51.143 --> 01:27:01.211
[SPEAKER_02]: And I see the forging aspect being, you know, intrinsically part of the direction of your designs.
01:27:01.992 --> 01:27:15.503
[SPEAKER_02]: It is amazing to see how the tools that you have to get ready are incredibly incredibly, I mean, that's the biggest understanding of all time, incredibly important to the development of your work.
01:27:16.364 --> 01:27:29.303
[SPEAKER_02]: and to be able to take all this time and stress and sleepless nights and putting things to the side to get this thing done, it is amazing that it's paid off as well as it has.
01:27:30.604 --> 01:27:30.985
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
01:27:32.853 --> 01:27:33.534
[SPEAKER_02]: had Quinn.
01:27:34.314 --> 01:27:35.495
[SPEAKER_02]: Can't get much better than that.
01:27:36.116 --> 01:27:38.878
[SPEAKER_02]: This wasn't going to be a part one, but I'm so glad it was.
01:27:39.118 --> 01:27:44.723
[SPEAKER_02]: Pat Quinn is the executive director of CMA Center for Mental Center for Mental Arts.
01:27:45.243 --> 01:27:48.766
[SPEAKER_02]: I will have all the links in the show notes.
01:27:49.646 --> 01:27:58.373
[SPEAKER_02]: You can go to, if wherever you listen to podcasts, there's also a lot of episodes with Pat in regards to the history of CMA while he was there and before,
01:27:59.214 --> 01:28:00.395
[SPEAKER_02]: It's definitely worth it.
01:28:00.455 --> 01:28:02.856
[SPEAKER_02]: This has been fantastic as always.
01:28:03.457 --> 01:28:05.098
[SPEAKER_02]: Two weeks, we're going to do part two.
01:28:05.518 --> 01:28:06.819
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to talk about the sculpture.
01:28:07.219 --> 01:28:09.261
[SPEAKER_02]: Pat, thank you so much.
01:28:10.461 --> 01:28:14.844
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for, you know, giving me the space to tell the story.
01:28:14.964 --> 01:28:15.505
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I,
01:28:16.802 --> 01:28:29.446
[SPEAKER_01]: increasingly less and less on my phone and I just, I'm like, you know, there's a good story to tell here, but it's been hard to find the right outlet and the right pictures.
01:28:29.566 --> 01:28:32.787
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, thanks, man, really, really appreciate it.
01:28:32.807 --> 01:28:33.927
[SPEAKER_02]: For me, it was light work.
01:28:34.148 --> 01:28:35.288
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like a goose ass.
01:28:35.308 --> 01:28:36.328
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the light work for me.
01:28:36.688 --> 01:28:38.729
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you did all the heavy lifting.
01:28:38.749 --> 01:28:41.770
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, find intended there too, right?
01:28:42.050 --> 01:28:49.412
[SPEAKER_02]: You did all the heavy lifting on this podcast too, Pat, you are the man, and I cannot wait to hear about that sculpture.
01:28:50.473 --> 01:28:51.133
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, dude.
01:28:51.593 --> 01:28:54.274
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope everything works out with our audio.
01:28:54.334 --> 01:28:56.534
[SPEAKER_02]: We're about that.
01:28:56.615 --> 01:28:58.855
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just cross our fingers.
01:28:59.275 --> 01:29:07.518
[SPEAKER_02]: Guys, follow Pat on Instagram, hand-forged and VT, or definitely get involved with the Center for Middle Arts.
01:29:08.058 --> 01:29:08.958
[SPEAKER_02]: Get on the newsletter.
01:29:08.978 --> 01:29:14.839
[SPEAKER_02]: You can follow Center for Metal Arts on Instagram, but they have a great website and the amazing newsletter.
01:29:15.699 --> 01:29:18.720
[SPEAKER_02]: Take the classes, support this amazing opportunity.
01:29:19.160 --> 01:29:25.401
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's like the Harvard of Metalworking, if I finish, I've been saying it for a long time.
01:29:26.101 --> 01:29:33.242
[SPEAKER_02]: And all the links for CMA for Pat for everything else will be on the show notes wherever you're listening to this.
01:29:33.702 --> 01:29:37.423
[SPEAKER_02]: Once again, Pat, thank you so much and I cannot wait for part two.
01:29:38.960 --> 01:29:39.523
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, dude.
01:29:39.643 --> 01:29:40.266
[SPEAKER_01]: Appreciate it.