Unsolved Murder and Bigfoot: California Traditions

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Hey, Welcome to this week's episode of the Not quite
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Midweek hol But we have a very special guest on
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because the Howler is in parts unknown, traveling around the world,
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putting his unusual stamp on wherever it is he lands.
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But before I bring on this, you know our very
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special guest, I just remind everybody.
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Look, if you.
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Can't get enough of the From the Shadows Podcast, how
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could you? I mean, let's be real. Go to our
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website from the Shadowspodcast dot com. You can find all
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of our social media links. Go you know, hit us
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up there following on all the fun and if you
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want to get ahold, get ahold of Us, hit the
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contact button. If you've got a paranormal story you want
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to share, or a true crime story, I'm teeing up
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for this for this episode coming up, Get ahold of Us.
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I'll get back a hold of you. If you want
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to find me directly, you can find me at Shane
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Grove author on Instagram. You can send me a message
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directly there or through any of the Facebook pages. Like
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I said, we'd love to hear from you. And if
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you like the episode, make sure you give it a
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big thumbs up. Subscribe if you're not subscribing, I mean,
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what are you doing here if you're not subscribing anyway,
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And you know, thanks for hanging out. So with that
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being said and the mention of true crime, we have
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a gentleman here, very distinguished gentlemen from the great state
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of California. Mike Gatto. Welcome to the From the Shadows podcast.
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Thanks for having me, Shane.
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So, Mike, you know, it's not very often we get
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emails from such high profile individuals. Okay, don't be modest.
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I mean, you're you're out there. People know who you are,
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they've seen they've seen you, you know, given your given
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your opinion, given your take on stuff. But you're not
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here to give your opinion or take on something. You
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have a super interesting albeit. I mean, there's just no
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other way to say. It's kind of a it's a sad,
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gut wrenching story. But you want to come on and
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share it. You've shared it before some other places, but
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you want to share it with our audience. And let's,
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you know, give a little background and let's get into
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you know, why you're here, what you want to talk about.
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Sure, So hi everyone, my name is Mike.
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Got out and I represented Hollywood, Los Angeles in the
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California Legislature for seven years. I'm currently a commentator on
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national news, and I keep busy with a whole bunch
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of other stuff. But what I'm here to talk about today,
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of course, is my father's murdered in twenty thirteen. In
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twenty thirteen, I was at the peak of my power
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in politics, and my father was murdered in a home
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invasion robbery in my child at home. It is still unsolved,
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and it's something that I talk about with audiences that
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care about true crime, they care about parent normal that
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care about these issues. For two reasons. Number one, I
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believe in the power of the true crime community. I
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believe that people out there, you know, they stick with stuff,
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they try to solve stuff, they try to help out,
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and I'm so grateful for the help that the true
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crime community, you know, provides families like mine. Secondly, I
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also want to speak up for all the other victims
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families out there. There's a lot of victims out there,
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crime victims, families who don't have the platform I have.
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In big cities like Los Angeles where I'm from, over
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fifty percent of murders go unsolved, and so I try
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to just go out there and evangelize and talk with
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people and just say hey, you know, pay attention to
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how you go, pay attention to the programs you fund,
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because somewhere there's a family like mine that doesn't have
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a platform, can't be on this cool podcast that's waiting
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for answers.
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So thanks again Shane for having me on no.
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I appreciate you know, us getting the opportunity to talk
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to you because you know, not to draw a parallel
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between like some of the paranormal stuff that we have
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people on with, but I tell people all the time
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who have a story, like a paranormal story, who they
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think it's small or insignificant, like it's you might help
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somebody else solve a mystery that they themselves are having
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with something they experienced or a citing they had. And
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I think the more the more like people like you know,
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I guess you could say, a survivor of this these tragedies.
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You know, you know it's important to talk and because
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it may help may not get your unsolved murder solve,
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but you maybe shed a light on an aspect that
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somebody else may not have thought of and help help them,
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you know, so so I mean, do you want to
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go back to that time? And and the other thing
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is is I think people don't really get how this
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stuff it has no they don't care who you are,
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what you're doing, what your status is. Stuff like this
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happens to the everyday average Joe up to high profile people,
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as witness with the Savannah Guthrie. You know her recent
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you know, tragedy that took place, you know in her
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family that's is unsoild like your stuff happened so many
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years ago that I can understand there's pieces that might
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be missing surveillance wise to help. But today's day and age,
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how does I don't understand anything goes anybody has?
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It's so true.
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I mean, it's amazing for what you just touched on
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because it's hard for people to believe. But in twenty thirteen,
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this was right at the moment that people were starting
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to get things like doorbell cameras, and there weren't any
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doorbell cameras in my father's neighborhood in twenty thirteen. It's
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so hard to foull them because we live in this world.
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If you biquit a surveillance and everything like that That's
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another thing that I talk about, and when I talk
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about this is the impression that technology can solve any crime.
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You know, cops and some crime watchers call the CSI effect,
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And of course it's after the notion that we all
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grew up watching these shows like CSI Miami, where there's
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this complicated mystery. But then you know, they bounce something
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off of satellite, they find a shred of DNA and
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you know, at minute fifty nine the crime is solved.
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Right.
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It doesn't work like that in your life. It's messy,
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it's dirty. They're not sure about this, They're not sure
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about this DNA. You know, it doesn't have any hits.
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There's this, there's that, And it's very very hard and
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a statistic I tell people, and this is hard to believe,
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but you touched on it. The percentage of murders that
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is solved in the era of DNA and doorball cameras
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is lower than it was before. You think about that,
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and I don't know if it's because police rely on
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it so heavily, or if it's because they just don't
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go out there and talk with the community anymore, or
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you know, when people know something but you go back
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to those old days of like Sherlock Holmes, where like,
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you know, he talked with somebody who's like, you know,
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I was talking with Jimmy and he started sweating profusely.
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You know.
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DNA doesn't see that, you know, bouncing stuff off satellites
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and getting you know, phone data.
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It doesn't see that.
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And so I think that's another theme that I like
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to remind people about solving crimes.
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And now there might be a certain section of people
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in jail for crimes from back in the day that
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they did not commit because not because because because.
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A lot of started sweating time.
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Yeah, you know so, but okay, so take us take
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us back to that, to that morning or that day
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that you sure got that call.
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Sure.
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So, as far as we know, my father was murdered
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on eleven twelve thirteen, an easy day to remember. We
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did not find out about it till the next day,
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which was eleven thirteen. I was at our house near
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the capitol of California, and California the big state people know.
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We were up in our house just outside of Sacramento,
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where the state capital is. I got a call from
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my little sister.
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She was friend.
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She was hard to understand the basic just the call
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was like, and I went to Dad's house and I
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think he's dead. And I was like, oh, come on, like,
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you know, get out of here. Like people have to understand.
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My father was elderly. He was seventy seventy nine at
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the time, but he was in the peak of health.
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I mean, he was somebody who's still sprints upstairs. He
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would go bike riding with me. A guy would deadlift refrigerators,
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he would deadlift trees in the yard.
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Very very healthy guy.
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We had relatives who actually one of my dad's cousins
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had lived to like one hundred and ten. She was
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one of the longest living women. My father's cousins are
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still alive today at ninety six and ninety seven. So,
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you know, we thought he was going to be with
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us for a long time. And so my first reaction
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was disbelief. I was like, come, you know, you know,
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like my dad wasn't the type of guy where we
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thought would have like a heart attack and just go away.
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So but anyway, long story short, I told her to
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call an ambulance. She called an ambulance. At some point
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they came in the house, They turned on all the lights,
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they they got everything, thing and gear, and they told
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me that my father was dead and the likely cause
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of death was a gunshotman. Apparently the scene, the crime
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scene did not have a lot of blood. The bullet
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entered his abdomen and lodged in his leg, and the blood,
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the bleeding was internal, right, And so my father was dead.
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And this, you know, kicked off this journey that I
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went into that you know, no family should have to
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and but it was a journey into, like, you know,
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how crimes are solved, and how busy big city detectives are,
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and the theories that you get from people who you
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know are quite out there, and some of their theories
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and all sorts of stuff that this journey continues to
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this day.
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Okay, so now your dad is super fit, it's super
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or did he was there any signs that after this
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event took place that he tried to get himself help,
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that he moved from the original spot that he just
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couldn't couldn't make it. Was there anything like that that
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you remember?
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So that's the great question, Shane, And that's one that
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you know, in the book I wrote about this, I
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tried to reveal things in the order that I learned them.
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And I one thing that people have talked with me
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after they read the book, they'll say, you know, I
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can't believe how you know, like ten years in the case,
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you were still learning things, another little tidbit and everything
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like that. It was about ten years into the case
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that the detectives told me that my father likely fought back.
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He didn't have like, you know, anything underneath his fingernails.
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It wasn't like that type of fight, but they believed
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that he did fight back, that he had tried to
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grab for the gun at some point because he had
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you know, powder residue or whatever on his hands, and
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that would be of course. You know, all these little
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clues are things that you know a mind, and so
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many of your listeners like this. I know you're like
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it's like you try to say, like, well, what does
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that mean. That could mean that my father's assailant was
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not that big of a person, or it could have
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been a woman, or could you know, like any of
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these things, right, I could have been a little right,
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because you know, my dad wasn't stupid and like, you know,
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trying to fight back. It was like you know, three
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people or something like that. You know who knows that
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is that is one clue. The other clue, and I
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really wrestle with this to this day, is you know,
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my dad, like I just said, was not a stupid guy.
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If he came home to his own house and he
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saw that his house was ransacked and he thought that
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somebody was there or partially ransacked, or he heard noise
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as he lived alone, he wouldn't be like a vigil
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anti as fit as he was.
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It's not like he you know, he'd go in like
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with a base.
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I mean, he would.
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Probably do what most people do.
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You know, you got a phone in your pocket, you
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walk out the door, you call nine one one, you know,
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I mean so to me, that also tells me a
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little something about you know, was he surprised and he
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came home or did someone surprise him when he was
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already home. And it's all these little clues, right that
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drive you crazy because in my father's case, there's no
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answer and nothing makes logical sense.
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Yeah, because you're trying to put yourself in the mind
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of a guy that you probably know the best, and
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you're like, well, I know he would do this, and
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I know he would do that, and would he you
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know was it somebody he'd let in the house because
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he knew them?
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And but I go.
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Back to why would it take them ten years to
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tell you guys that he fought back? Because I would
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think that that would be something that a family would
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want to know, Like it would make you at least
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feel better that your dad went down swinging, you know
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what I'm saying, that he was not the victim of
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somebody just sneaking up behind him and taking a cheap
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shot and getting rid of him. That he least, you know,
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in those last moments, was fighting to see you guys.
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You know, like I'm fighting because I'm you know, I'm
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not done living, And like, why does it take ten
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years for somebody to tell I mean to tell you that?
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And Shane, what you said is really deep because that
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is something that I also talk with people about when
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they're trying to understand what it's like, you know, when
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we all know that loved ones are going to die
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at some point. I mean, that's part of life, right,
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the life cycle ends. But you always like to think
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that you will have a moment to hold their hand
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as they have concerns about death, to ask them the
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questions that you never got a chance to ask them
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to help guide them spiritually to the next stage. When
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someone's murdered, you don't get a chance to do those things.
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You're just left with questions. I do like to think
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that my father was fighting to see us and to
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see his family. Why big city departments are like this,
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or why the Los Angeles Police Department is like this?
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The short answers, I don't know.
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There were some you know, tensions with the police from
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the first moment, you know, tensions that I think weren't necessary,
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and you know, just exacerbated things. I always say, you
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know in these you know, I'm from California, and California
279
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has had a long decades of these very high profile crimes,
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oj the Black Dahlia if you want to go right
281
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way back to the fifties. Manson family members. By the way,
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my father, you know, taught some of the Manson family.
283
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He was a teacher, and he had actually taught some
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members of the Manson family, which is this, you know,
285
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sort of freak thing. And I want to say, my
286
00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:36.519
father was killed on Charlie Manson's birthday or something like that,
287
00:14:36.759 --> 00:14:39.000
and I got a call from one of the families,
288
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the Manson victims who said it was connected, right, And
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I'll get into that when I talk about all the
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different theories you suspect, But I promise you I don't
291
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think it was. I really don't. But in anyway, what
292
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I'm trying to say is that the big city police
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departments are often like this. You know, stuff comes out
294
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in drips and drabs. There's often stuff that is leaked
295
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and you hear about it from the media other than
296
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from the police itself. And it's a shame because you know,
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you've got to try to use these relationships as collaborative
298
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as opposed to antagonistic. There's a lot of high profile
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victims that go out there and they hire Gloria already
300
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and they hold a press conference on the steps of
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city Hall and they're railing against the police. Why aren't
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00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:16.759
you doing enough?
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That was never my style?
304
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And yet still, you know, I feel like the information
305
00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:25.200
flowing was more one way than the other, but it
306
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is what it is now.
307
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Did was there a point in time that the police
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thought that this might be have something to do with
309
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your career? And did they?
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And was that.
311
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Maybe something that they was a prejudiced against you in
312
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giving you information that you know, you know what I'm saying.
313
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Yeah, I mean, so the answer is no.
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The police never thought that this was politically connected, but
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I did. And you can call it a self centered
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or the natural tendency of humans to ask themselves, could
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this have something to do with me?
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Right?
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I was in a very high profile office and I
320
00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:12.440
had won at that point for really tough campaigns. And
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00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:14.799
I mean by really tough, I mean people were following
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00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:16.840
me and my family around at all times. There were
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physical altercations. I mean, these were very emotional, very hard
324
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fought campaigns. There was also I had taken a vote
325
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:28.480
or a co sponsor or co author at a piece
326
00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:33.080
of legislation that very militant group did not like, and
327
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so they had come, they had taken to coming to
328
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a press conference of mind and dumping fake blood on
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the floor, and so you know, yeah, like I mean,
330
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I immediately there were three groups that I immediately thought, gee,
331
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I wonder if this is connected to these three groups.
332
00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:48.879
One of them was a group that you know, we
333
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:49.519
had defeated.
334
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It was like a political machine that we had defeated
335
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several times to that point.
336
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My father had helped me out.
337
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The second one was these weird protesters that were protesting circumcision,
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if you could believe that they were, like, it was weird.
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00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:03.480
I don't know why they had blonde onto me.
340
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And the third one was people were trying to another
341
00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:10.680
very passionate group had wanted to change the rules for
342
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filming adult entertainment in California, and for whatever reason, these
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three groups were like part of the phrase, but they
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00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:18.960
were crazy, they were extreme, and so I was concerned
345
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that it had something to do with it. I mentioned
346
00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:22.759
that the first time I saw the detectives work in
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00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:25.000
my dad's case, and they like laughed at me. They're like, Mike,
348
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you're a high profile guy.
349
00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:28.039
Your home in.
350
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Los Angeles is just two blocks away. Everybody knows where
351
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you live. You go up to seven events, you show
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up at seven events a day, you give seven speeches
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a day. If they wanted to get shit, they would
354
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have just gotten you. And I was like, all right,
355
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I can't argue with that. So yeah, they dismissed it
356
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pretty quickly.
357
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.759
Now that reminds me because I can tell you everything
358
00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:52.200
back to Seinfeld, but that would be that's the point
359
00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:57.559
where Jerry tells George when he thinks he bought oh, God,
360
00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:02.480
what's his name's Carr? It was are because John Voyd's
361
00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:04.279
car when he thought he bought John Voyd's card.
362
00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:07.279
He goes, but isn't that's the genius of it.
363
00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:10.400
If they want to get back at you and not
364
00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.079
get caught, why would they go show up where you
365
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:18.079
are at, where there's cameras and security, go show up
366
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and really get back at you and take away somebody
367
00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.079
that you love, and that then you have to wonder
368
00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:29.480
about for the rest of your life. I mean, why
369
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would somebody laugh at that suggestion. I'm not saying that's
370
00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:36.119
the case, but that doesn't seem silly to me, Like
371
00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:39.519
that would be more that would be more torturous to
372
00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:43.319
you in the long run, you know, to have to
373
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deal with that loss and possibly think that it was
374
00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:49.400
tied to something that you stood for.
375
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:51.240
No, I agree with that. I agree with that.
376
00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:54.279
And there were rumors that, you know, I mentioned the
377
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three groups, There were rumors until you know, six seven
378
00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:58.960
years in the case, rumors I sometimes still here today
379
00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:00.000
that one of these groups was involved.
380
00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:02.880
But it is hard for me to know.
381
00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:05.359
It is very very hard for me to know someone
382
00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:07.839
did say to me, yeah, you know, like taking out
383
00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:11.519
loved one, causing chaos, making you obsess about it, making
384
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:13.799
you wonder about it. That's also a very easy way
385
00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:17.039
to destroy someone's political career, right. One of the reasons
386
00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:19.039
I decided to press pause on my political career, the
387
00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:21.759
main one was because my third child, the son, was born,
388
00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:25.240
and my wife said, hey, like, you know, you got
389
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:26.920
to be present when these kids are.
390
00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:29.319
Are being raised, and I agree with that.
391
00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:31.720
But I'd say a major part of it as well
392
00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:34.759
was that my father's case was unsolved. It was taking
393
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:38.480
so much bandwidth and so much time and energy. Also,
394
00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:41.079
his civil affairs were really a mess, so he didn't
395
00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:43.960
expect to die, and so we his estate like lasted
396
00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:47.119
nine years, and so it really did take me away
397
00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:49.640
from my duties and it really did take a lot
398
00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:49.960
of time.
399
00:19:50.000 --> 00:20:03.440
So who knows, that's interesting, but I I just find
400
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:08.079
that I find that kind of it's kind of it's
401
00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:11.880
it's the so where I live here, and you know,
402
00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:14.640
we're like an hour north of Columbus, super small, you know,
403
00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:20.240
super small community. Everybody knows everybody. You know, my best friends,
404
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:23.920
the judge, my other best you know, they're in everybody's
405
00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:26.799
in power, you know, in positions of power. And you know,
406
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.559
I know, the policeman, the chair. When you go when
407
00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:32.160
you go to somebody and you say, hey, look here
408
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:35.720
I heard this, or you might want to check into this,
409
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:40.160
they all take they take it serious. You know, they're like, oh, okay,
410
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:44.200
let me you know, so I could. I don't know
411
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:49.480
what it's you would be going through living in a
412
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:54.480
city like that big, where you're just even even in
413
00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:59.000
the high profile nature that you were, you know, your
414
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:02.000
suggestion is kind of like and whatever.
415
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.039
Yeah, Like, well that's another theme.
416
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:05.960
That's another thing I talk about it, you know, to
417
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:08.599
give people a sense of how things are when God
418
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:11.160
forbid something like this happens to a family.
419
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:14.839
I had a very simple metric when I was in office.
420
00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:17.400
Right if I went to our Department of Motor Vehicles
421
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:19.680
and they knew, oh my god, this is the share
422
00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:23.240
of appropriations and he sets our funding and he's coming
423
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:25.799
in to renew his license, and they treated me like dirt.
424
00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.400
I was like, okay, what is the public through?
425
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:32.160
Like I mean, my very simple metric, like if this
426
00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:35.359
is how I get treated, the public must be treated
427
00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:36.200
like so much worse.
428
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:39.079
And that really was a theme with this case.
429
00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:42.000
Like, you know, there was the Big grim Sleeper case
430
00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:46.799
where the LAPED investigated these murders of largely African American
431
00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:49.920
prostitutes in a section of South Los Angeles or like
432
00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:52.920
the guy went on, the guy was s was not
433
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:55.440
captured for like thirty years, and he kept killing people
434
00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:57.880
and it was like, I want to say, he lived
435
00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:59.599
in the blocks where he was doing the killing and
436
00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:01.119
they were all in eight block radius. And it's like,
437
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.079
you can't understand how these crimes like go unsolved. It's like,
438
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:09.519
is there not anybody on the force who really pushes it?
439
00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:11.400
And I know that there are because there have been
440
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.960
so many kind, hard working, just people have encountered the
441
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:18.519
force who bust their behinds to work for victims families.
442
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:21.079
But there's also a few bad apples who don't. And
443
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:22.599
that's the real shame of Big City.
444
00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:25.880
Please yeah, because they you know, I can imagine they
445
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:30.960
make judgments based on the value of somebody's life that's law,
446
00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:32.160
you know, that's lost.
447
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:33.000
Which is not fair.
448
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:37.319
Everybody's life should be valued, is you know, unless you're
449
00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:41.039
unless you lose your life committing a horrible crime, then
450
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:46.039
I guess you kind of get what you get, you know. So,
451
00:22:46.039 --> 00:22:50.880
so how did did it ever has come close to you.
452
00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:54.799
Do you think it's ever come close to them naming
453
00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.880
a suspect or zeroing in on anybody.
454
00:22:58.720 --> 00:22:59.119
I don't.
455
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:02.000
As far as we know. With my father's case, it's
456
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:07.240
really one of two, maybe three scenarios. The first scenario
457
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:11.039
engaging in profiling, and I'm talking good profiling, like like
458
00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:13.599
the profiling of a victim to try to get into
459
00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:15.599
their head to try to find out who it could be.
460
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:20.240
I'm trying not the victim, that the perpetrator. The profile
461
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:22.799
that we would come up with was it was either
462
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:26.400
somebody who was really dumb and really high on drugs
463
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:29.680
who did something this one night that they've never done
464
00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:33.359
again and never done previously, where they like almost stumbled
465
00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:37.400
into it, and by some combination of really bad timing
466
00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:39.400
and bad factors, my father died and happened to be
467
00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:42.640
in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or it's
468
00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:46.240
something a lot more complex. It was a murder for hire.
469
00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:50.240
It was extremely complicated, it was extremely premeditated, and people
470
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:53.480
did everything to make it look like this. The challenge
471
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:57.000
is when you go over every little detail of the crime,
472
00:23:57.559 --> 00:23:59.799
there's really no room for any other Like there's really
473
00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:02.200
no nuance area, it's either this or it's either that.
474
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:03.640
And when I talk with my friends who are a
475
00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:06.559
police officers, they say, yeah, like, the crime will only
476
00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:09.480
makes sense if it was like partly staged, or if
477
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:11.880
it was like somebody really high on drugs that like
478
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:16.079
really was just doing stupid things and et cetera. And
479
00:24:16.119 --> 00:24:20.400
that's what's so frustrating, right is because I and my
480
00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:22.319
whole family goes back and forth, was it.
481
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:22.799
A was it B?
482
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:23.279
You know?
483
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.680
And after all this time, I don't know that we're
484
00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:29.920
much closer to knowing whether it was A or was B.
485
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:32.920
But I'll tell you right now, I favor the idea
486
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:36.319
that it was the more complicated thing. I do believe that.
487
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:39.480
I just can't believe that it was just some random
488
00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:42.000
druggie who did this. Now I could be wrong, but
489
00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:46.720
I've been wrong before. But that's what's so hard, is
490
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:49.440
wrestling with the unknowns well.
491
00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:55.640
And in one instance, the unknown seems so like, so
492
00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:59.440
unnecessary and so ridiculous to think that somebody would lose
493
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:03.640
their life for somebody's complete negligence because they were out
494
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:08.119
of their minds undre like like, And that seems the
495
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:13.559
statistically more highly implausible thing to have happened, you know,
496
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:18.839
not saying it doesn't happen because you do hear you know,
497
00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:21.880
when you know serial killers, for instance, they'll just say
498
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:24.039
it was an opportunity. You know, they were just in
499
00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:28.079
the wrong place at the wrong time. But to go
500
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:32.359
to the other side of it is there are there
501
00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:36.079
reasons that I mean, because I don't know your dad
502
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:39.200
like he might have. You know, was he running an
503
00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:41.960
illegal card game in the in the back room?
504
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:44.359
Was he you know, what was he like? What was
505
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:44.839
he doing?
506
00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:48.599
The first questions that the police asked. In the book,
507
00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:50.599
I go through all these theories because believe me, I've
508
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:53.559
heard them all. My father was a retired school teacher.
509
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:56.240
He worked three jobs growing up. He was a son
510
00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:58.519
of a coal miner, of a coal miner, I mean
511
00:25:58.599 --> 00:26:00.880
he was. He was a US Army in He was
512
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:03.000
so beloved in the community. I want to I want
513
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.880
to give you a sense that how Beiglevity was. You know,
514
00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:08.559
he went to a church that I went to a
515
00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:11.279
I was an ultra boy at growing up. The church
516
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:13.319
has a capacity of maybe two hundred three hundred people.
517
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:15.799
There were twelve hundred people at his funeral. It was
518
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:22.319
just he didn't really have enemies. Wasn't involved with crime,
519
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:24.359
although it's interesting because a lot of people with my
520
00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:26.559
last name who are involved with the crime in some way.
521
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:30.160
But I've heard all the theories, you know, organized crime.
522
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:32.400
I've heard all of these, you know, various different things,
523
00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:37.160
Russian organized crime, Italian organized crime, Armenian organism. I've literally
524
00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:41.440
heard everything. But you know, the most simple stuff, right,
525
00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:44.559
you stick with the stats. A guy called me. I
526
00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:46.720
think I reached out to him like a crime researcher,
527
00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:48.440
and he just said he said something to me like,
528
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:51.559
you know, Mike, when an elderly person is killed in
529
00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:54.400
his or her own home, it is somebody they know
530
00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:57.319
ninety seven percent of the time or ninety nine. I mean,
531
00:26:57.319 --> 00:26:59.920
it was some crazy, big statistic, and you think about
532
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:02.799
it makes sense, right, because elderly people get some little guy.
533
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:06.319
He's not out there chasing women, and you know, there's
534
00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:09.200
like a lover's quarrel. He's not out there getting out
535
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:13.559
a bar fight. You know, he's not out there, Robin Banks.
536
00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:16.359
It's just they live a very basic life. They go
537
00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:18.799
to the grocery store, they see their grandkids. You know,
538
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:22.440
so that's been hard right again, is it a or
539
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:23.720
is it b We don't know.
540
00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:28.640
Now, you know, twelve hundred people show up at his funeral.
541
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:31.079
Maybe they wanted to make sure the job got done.
542
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:33.559
Number one, if they're you know what I'm saying, if
543
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:41.079
he was involved in something and but so so there's
544
00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:43.480
the other thing is is so you rack your brain?
545
00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:44.640
All right?
546
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:47.240
So who did he know? Who did he know that
547
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:51.640
I didn't know that would have been capable of doing
548
00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:52.599
something like this?
549
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:54.720
And I mean.
550
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:58.440
Was there any I mean, I'm sure you guy has
551
00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:01.640
probably gotten to his all phone, his emails and like
552
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:02.799
who's he talking to that?
553
00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:03.720
We don't really know?
554
00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:07.480
Were those avenues then that the police took serious?
555
00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:08.000
Did you guys?
556
00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:09.680
Yeah?
557
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:13.920
I mean my father was so disorganized, right, Like we
558
00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:17.480
first had to ascertain how many different emails he had,
559
00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:23.480
you know, and you know, I know we know of it,
560
00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:26.920
like at least three, and we think the police got
561
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:27.839
into all three of them.
562
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:31.160
They did ask for our help with that. I believe
563
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:31.759
they got.
564
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:34.960
His phone records, you know, but nothing really stuck out
565
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:38.480
right as far as I know, I mean, he he had,
566
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:42.599
you know, nothing like you know, it's like they asked us,
567
00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:44.359
was your dad dating? You know, because there's a lot
568
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:46.599
of older, older guys are My dad wasn't dating as
569
00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:47.160
far as we know.
570
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:50.279
You know, did your dad have any business dealings that
571
00:28:50.319 --> 00:28:50.720
went bad?
572
00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:53.640
No? You know, I mean like it was hard to
573
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:56.920
understand what the motive would be. And in case.
574
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:11.000
Now did they were they able to get any kind
575
00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:14.559
of DNA or any kind of fingerprints or anything like that.
576
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:17.519
They did, so, so you know, if you go into
577
00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:20.559
any house, there is going to be unknown fingerprints. In
578
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:23.440
my father's house was no different. There were lots of
579
00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:24.720
different unknown prints.
580
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:26.240
You know.
581
00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:28.640
The challenge though, of course, is like you know, it's
582
00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:30.640
not like the movies where like, you know, the killer
583
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:32.319
grabs one thing and you have a thumb and a
584
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:34.160
you know point. It's like, you know, you got a
585
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:35.920
little piece of a palm here, and you got a
586
00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:38.319
pinky print there and things like that, right, so it's
587
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:42.319
not always that easy. Secondly, the detectives told me, which
588
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:45.640
I didn't know this, that fingerprints are you know, they're
589
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:47.799
sort of like a forgotten art right now. They told
590
00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:49.359
me about a guy who was rested. I think they
591
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:51.799
told me nine times, and every time he was fingerprinting,
592
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:53.960
and it was like finally, like on the tenth time,
593
00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:56.880
they like the match, the computer match the prints, and
594
00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:00.680
it's just like, how does like, you know, again, we
595
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:03.559
think about technology is amazing, but apparently it's not that great.
596
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:06.880
And they said something like, you know, human error. If
597
00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:09.960
the person behind the desk is lazy that night when
598
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:12.599
they run Johnny's print and they don't do it correctly,
599
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:15.000
you might not always get the match. And that was like, oh,
600
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:17.759
that's that's comforting. Thanks for telling me that, you know,
601
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:23.759
holy there was DNA. They do believe that the DNA
602
00:30:24.039 --> 00:30:25.519
was connected.
603
00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:26.599
To the killer.
604
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.559
However, there's a lot of butts. It's been thirteen years,
605
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.240
there's been no matches. There's been no matches even with
606
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:35.519
male relatives because you know, there's also that system where
607
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:39.720
you can try to do male relatives, and it doesn't
608
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:42.240
give us any insight on the AIRB scenario. Right, because
609
00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:44.160
if it was a junkie who never got arrested and
610
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:46.759
you know, maybe died or whatever or you know whatever,
611
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:49.640
had done something or it got straight, it would fit
612
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:51.799
with that. Also, if it was planned it was like
613
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:55.000
you know, a higher assassin from Russia, well it would
614
00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:57.000
fit with that too. Right, that the DNA is not
615
00:30:57.039 --> 00:31:00.000
in any American database. The challenge with the DNA though,
616
00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:02.119
is I don't know if you ever read those articles
617
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:04.319
where they say they found a Neanderthal in a cave
618
00:31:04.359 --> 00:31:06.359
and the DNA is one hundred thousand years old and
619
00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:09.599
they were able to extract a little ten tiny bit
620
00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:11.359
and it's so fragmented though that.
621
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:12.400
You can't really match it.
622
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:15.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was how small the DNA was
623
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:19.640
in my dad's case. So it's you know, it's a challenge.
624
00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:23.880
We waited every every moment for some break and getting
625
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:24.440
that phone call.
626
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:30.079
So you would certainly so to me, if the DNA
627
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.200
they got was such a small sample, it would rule
628
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:39.640
out somebody just haphazardly stumbling into the house and being
629
00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:42.759
super like high on drugs or out of their mind
630
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:48.079
and being super careful not to sneeze or call or
631
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:49.640
bleed or whatever.
632
00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:50.480
You know.
633
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:54.559
That's what That's what I say too. There's so many actions, right,
634
00:31:55.400 --> 00:32:01.039
you know, it's it's almost like if this was somebody
635
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:02.440
just a plain vanilla criminal.
636
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:03.039
It's amazing.
637
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:05.400
In thirteen years, they never talked, they never told anybody,
638
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:06.519
They never got me arrested.
639
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:08.880
Right, They were.
640
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:12.279
So careful to not leave DNA and not do this,
641
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:13.680
or you know, not leave lots of it and not
642
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:16.440
get caught, but at the same time so stupid that
643
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:18.759
they that they overlooked all these valuables and that they
644
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:21.279
left all these you know, there's so many things that
645
00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:25.039
don't fit, and it's kind of driven me crazy, as
646
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:26.680
you might be able to tell, because there's just so
647
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:28.039
many things that are soological in.
648
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:31.359
The face exactly so there was nothing missing that you
649
00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:31.839
could tell.
650
00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:37.799
No signs of four centry, right, no signs offore centry.
651
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:41.920
The perpetrator or perpetrators walked by tons of valuables. My
652
00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:45.000
father had a third three story house plus a garage.
653
00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:49.279
Whoever this was, here's some more anomalies. Whoever this was
654
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:52.119
went into a house with three cars present, you know,
655
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:53.920
I mean, Shane, I mean you're a big guy. I'm
656
00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:56.640
a fairly big guy. Like, you know, whoever did this,
657
00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:58.519
Like they don't know if my dad's got ten sons.
658
00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:00.480
There's three cars in the driveway right, Like, you know,
659
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:05.519
it's just so bizarre. There's so many things that don't fit.
660
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.559
I remember when we heard the crime scene a couple
661
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:13.839
of days after the the incident, Like there's like a
662
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:16.240
gold ring center on my dad's desk that the person
663
00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:19.160
walked right by, right. So it's just there's so many
664
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:22.400
things that don't make sense. Electronics that they walk by,
665
00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:27.000
paintings on the wall, cars, there's just a lot of
666
00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:28.240
it that just doesn't make sense.
667
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:31.440
I mean, the more I hear, the more I'm hearing,
668
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:35.480
the more I'm like, man, what what what.
669
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:36.359
The heck happened?
670
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:39.640
Like? And I'm sure you've wrestled this like it just
671
00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:43.519
does not It just doesn't seem like this was like
672
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:48.119
some chance, you know it really, it really does seem
673
00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:51.839
like somebody had one purpose and the one purpose was
674
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.880
to take care of your dad. And I just it's
675
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:59.000
just it's a it's stunning to me that.
676
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:01.519
And I can tell you know, after so many years
677
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:04.279
went by, and after I gathered every bit of logical
678
00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:07.559
evidence and I compiled it and I organized it, and
679
00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:09.840
I wrote the book and I tried to state logical
680
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:13.159
and chronological. I did what a lot of people do,
681
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:15.639
even police officers trying to solve tough crime, and that
682
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:18.960
is I finally let myself be connected to a psychic.
683
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:24.599
I had a very good friend who approached me and
684
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:27.159
she said, you know, Mike, I really believe in psychics.
685
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:30.199
I believe that they can have some type of thing
686
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:31.960
and what do you have to lose? And I was like, yeah,
687
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:33.920
that's a good point. What do I have to lose?
688
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:38.840
And I wasn't prepared for what the psychic did, though
689
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:42.119
I thought it was actually kind of crappy. This was
690
00:34:42.199 --> 00:34:44.719
right around the tenth year anniversary of my god father's killing,
691
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:47.280
so the media had put all these stories out. It
692
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:51.760
had been on CBSNBC, ABC, all around the media. And
693
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:53.719
I told my friend, I said, we're going to do
694
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:56.039
the scientifically. You are not going to tell the psychic
695
00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:58.639
who I am. You're not going to tell the psychic
696
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:01.360
why I am. There, are not going to provide my name,
697
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:03.960
my phone number, nothing where they can google me, anything
698
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:06.159
like that. She said, okay, she gave me her word.
699
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:09.800
I found out she later violated her word. There had
700
00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:14.159
been a story about my dad's case. My dad loved hummingbirds,
701
00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:16.480
he loved feeding me, had hummingbird feeders all around his house,
702
00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:19.800
and on his gravestone we had a picture of a huntingbird.
703
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:23.719
One of the stories that had just aired before I
704
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:26.840
saw the psychic had zoomed in and on his gravestone
705
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:29.039
and showed the picture of the hummingbird. First thing the
706
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:32.440
psychic says when I sit down with her, is I'm
707
00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:34.320
picturing a bird.
708
00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:36.960
Is it a pharaoh? No?
709
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:38.840
I think it's a hummingbird. And I was like, okay,
710
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:40.559
you just saw the story. I mean, you don't get
711
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:43.400
out of here, right, I mean it was so obvious
712
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:45.320
to me, and it was so painful, and I was
713
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:47.239
actually really upset my friend that she had sort of
714
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:48.360
violated my trust that way.
715
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:51.079
I remain open to.
716
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:53.599
I do believe that there are people out there who
717
00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:57.159
have this ability to see things and sense things beyond
718
00:35:57.239 --> 00:36:00.320
just the senses that most of us use. I been
719
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:03.320
to talking with somebody, but I just want somebody who's
720
00:36:03.320 --> 00:36:05.039
going to do me right. I don't want somebody who's
721
00:36:05.079 --> 00:36:08.039
going to like abuse my good nature and you know,
722
00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:11.440
and learn things and try to pass one off me.
723
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:13.800
I don't need that, you know, I'll pay them the
724
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:15.280
money not to do that to me, right.
725
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:18.639
I just yeah, cool, Well, and it just it serves
726
00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:22.480
no purpose exactly. Now, let me ask you, do you
727
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:24.480
guys still own the place that your dad.
728
00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:29.000
No, my sister was the executor of his estate and
729
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:30.719
she sold it, which I understand, you know, that was
730
00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:32.199
the main source of his wealth was his home in
731
00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:33.800
Los Angeles.
732
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:36.559
Because I just because I do know somebody that I
733
00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:40.079
would totally trust that if they were ever in California,
734
00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:43.079
I'd say, hey, go look, go look this this guy
735
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:46.519
up and go to the house and just and she
736
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:49.480
might even like, if she's ever in California, I'll have her.
737
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:52.800
I'll try to connect you guys, because she's the kind
738
00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:55.480
of person that that goes and she's been on the
739
00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:59.079
show before and that'd be great. And she'll be somewhere
740
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:03.599
and it's like this, and this is how it's described
741
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:07.960
to me, is the spirits will understand that she can communicate,
742
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:12.039
so it's like a light blink in like hello, Hello,
743
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.519
and she's places where like they'll come up to like
744
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:18.119
those spirits will come up and say, hey, I need
745
00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:22.440
you to say say something too, and it just freaks
746
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:26.320
her out, but she does it, and it's it's it's amazing.
747
00:37:26.440 --> 00:37:30.519
It's amazing because I could picture that maybe you know,
748
00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:33.920
if your dad was still in that space and didn't
749
00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:37.599
get closure to tell you guys what happened, that that
750
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:42.960
may be something that is possible. I mean, and now
751
00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:45.320
everybody out there that's listening that doesn't believe in that
752
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:48.719
it's going to be like, oh, come on, guys, but
753
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:57.119
but I look the and I'm sure you representing Hollywood
754
00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:04.320
have seen seen in better round some stuff that's just unexplained, unexplainable.
755
00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:11.960
So so let me ask, like that anything that you
756
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:14.840
can share, like what are some of the craziest things
757
00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:19.079
that you've been privy that just the that you that
758
00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:21.119
it's unbelievable that you could like.
759
00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:24.519
Well, so my district also included NASA JPL, right, the
760
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:25.639
Jet Propulsion Library.
761
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:26.559
Oh yeah, okay.
762
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:28.079
One of the.
763
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:30.079
Coolest things was after I got elected, they took me
764
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:33.239
in this room and everybody's waiting for me to say
765
00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:34.400
they told me about aliens.
766
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:36.119
Now, they took me in a room.
767
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:38.760
Where you could see Voyager two still communicating with the
768
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:40.840
Earth from all and that for me was it was
769
00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:43.800
a very cool experience. I get asked about the space
770
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:46.239
alien question a lot. You know, people say like, well,
771
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:48.119
you were in government, tell us what it really was,
772
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:50.599
you know, things like that. What I want to convey
773
00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:54.440
to people is that and you know, when you get
774
00:38:54.440 --> 00:38:57.400
elected to office, and I know people might think that
775
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:00.760
it's all but you know, look, there's four hundred and
776
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:04.920
thirty five members of Congress, there's countless state lawmakers. There's
777
00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:07.519
a lot of people who get elected. I can assure
778
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:10.360
you that you go from being a regular guy, just
779
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:12.360
a guy on the street who cares about all these issues,
780
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.599
just like everybody who's watching does, to now you're in office.
781
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:17.800
There's no like magical thing. They don't take you at
782
00:39:17.800 --> 00:39:20.199
a room and say, oh, now that you've been elected,
783
00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:21.880
let us take you to the secret.
784
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:23.840
So swirl around that we're talking.
785
00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:26.480
Because first of all, you could you could get you
786
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:29.880
could get unelected really fast too, you could get recalled, impeached,
787
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:30.880
you could.
788
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:32.280
Lose your next election, you know.
789
00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:36.800
And also if a conspiracy requires thousands or tens of thousands.
790
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:39.480
Of people to keep a secret, it ain't gonna happen, folks.
791
00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:42.519
So so you know, for more for the more extreme
792
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:46.679
stuff like that, yeah, like there is no there there.
793
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:49.639
But that being said, you know, seeing the sausage being
794
00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:54.599
made is definitely unique. I've got stories that you know,
795
00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:57.639
are really really fascinating and people would be shocked to
796
00:39:57.679 --> 00:39:58.280
learn about him.
797
00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:11.880
If you want me to, yeah, go ahead, yeah, yeah,
798
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:13.519
because this is this is.
799
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:15.679
One that I only I only told after I left office,
800
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:17.639
and I think I've told it on one podcast so far,
801
00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:21.800
but so it's pretty pretty Uh. I used to be
802
00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:24.199
the chair of a very powerful community appropriations committee, and
803
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:27.239
it's like you're like the governor, but you're in the legislature.
804
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:30.599
You can veto any bill in California, you can stop
805
00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:33.159
any bill in its tracks. And you also determined most
806
00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:36.079
of the spending for the state. So this bill came
807
00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:41.280
before us that had to do with testing cosmetics on puppies. Okay,
808
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:46.519
Like I mean, it doesn't get any like more emotionally touched.
809
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:49.519
Like they were literally testing shampoo on beagle ears, right,
810
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:51.360
and because they're soft and they're like human hair and
811
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:53.519
anything like that, it's a cause I personally believe, like
812
00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:56.039
let's stop it. You don't want to do that to
813
00:40:55.719 --> 00:41:00.679
to beagles. And the bill came before my committee and
814
00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:03.400
I had a determinent's fate, and the night before a
815
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:08.079
key vote, they had hired a very inexperienced lobbyist, and
816
00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:10.840
people who see things like House of Cards, people who
817
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:13.639
watched the DV dramas, they're used to lobbyists talking this way.
818
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:17.039
But I can tell you lobbyists do not talk this way.
819
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.920
And when they do it's a major source of promise.
820
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:22.519
I'm about to tell you. So he sent us an email.
821
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:25.039
As far as we pieced together, he got drunk, and
822
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:26.840
then he sent us an email saying.
823
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:29.280
God, this bill means so much to me. It's like
824
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:30.000
my whole career.
825
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:32.199
And like, what's it gonna take, Mike to get this
826
00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:34.119
bill passed? Like do you want to do a fundraiser
827
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:34.760
across the street?
828
00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:35.360
Like how much? Like?
829
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:39.079
And it was like, oh my god, like no, like
830
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:42.880
that is a felony. Right, So then we were in
831
00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:46.760
this really weird position of like we had to like
832
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:49.239
self report. So my staff, I want to say, called
833
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:51.679
the Office of Legislative Council, we called the Faarah Political
834
00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:55.119
Practices Commission, we called the FBI. Were like, we just
835
00:41:55.159 --> 00:41:58.239
got offered a bribe and it was for this bill.
836
00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:00.519
And by the way, we were going to pass the
837
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:02.480
bill anyway. It's a really righteous bill.
838
00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:05.599
I like it. I support it. Like what do we do?
839
00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:08.559
And this is the answer of that shocked everybody, and
840
00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:10.880
I was so happy I could finally tell the story
841
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:12.000
because people wondered.
842
00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:12.320
What I had done.
843
00:42:13.719 --> 00:42:16.159
They're like, you've got to stop the bill. It's like,
844
00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:19.719
what are you talking about? They said, well, all three
845
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:22.920
of them. They said, you have been offered a bribe.
846
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:26.760
And when you've been offered a bribe, and if you
847
00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:30.400
let the bill pass, the offer of the bribe, even
848
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:33.480
if they haven't bribed you, is still a felony. So
849
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:36.000
you have to stop the bill. You have to do
850
00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:38.039
the opposite of passing the bill. And we were like,
851
00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:41.519
what are you talking about, Like so anybody could essentially
852
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:45.920
stop legislation by They're like, that's the best practice. That
853
00:42:46.119 --> 00:42:48.800
was consideration for a thing. There was an attempted quit
854
00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:51.199
pro quo. You cannot pass this bill. So I had
855
00:42:51.239 --> 00:42:56.119
to kill the puppy dog testing bill. And it was
856
00:42:56.239 --> 00:42:59.639
like really difficult because and also when people asked, I
857
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:02.159
couldn't tell them why I couldn't accuse this guy of
858
00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:06.199
committing a felony. I there was an ongoing investigation, and
859
00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:09.320
it was just it was a really crappy, crappy, crappy experience.
860
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:12.039
So that's one example of how the sausage is made.
861
00:43:12.039 --> 00:43:14.400
It's not always pretty, and it was a very very
862
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:16.480
crappy experience where those of most who try to live.
863
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:20.599
With ethics, well, the main question is why are they
864
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:24.920
still experimenting and testing on animals.
865
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:29.840
Right, Like, what like, if we're putting.
866
00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:33.000
Together stuff that is could be so dangerous for people
867
00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:35.119
to use that we have to test it on animals,
868
00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:38.000
then let's just not do it, you know.
869
00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:40.639
What I'm saying. Let's just agree. I agree.
870
00:43:41.199 --> 00:43:42.960
Oh my gosh.
871
00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:46.599
The other So the other the other thing I wanted
872
00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:48.960
to ask you was, so you're, you know, being a
873
00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:53.440
California guy. Where where what's the stance on bigfoot out
874
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:56.440
there in California as far as like, I mean, because
875
00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:59.599
it's apparent that there's a lot of people to have
876
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:02.840
experiences and see stuff, And is it like even thought
877
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:06.320
of as a serious issue or I mean, I'm sure
878
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:10.199
certain parts of the state it's more serious than others.
879
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:13.840
Yes, So what people have to understand is people think
880
00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:16.679
of California. They think about Los Angeles and San Francisco.
881
00:44:17.239 --> 00:44:21.719
You'll often hear even Californians call San Francisco northern California.
882
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:22.599
In the middle of this.
883
00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:26.320
Yeah, you go to you drive eight hours and you
884
00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:28.360
get to San Francisco, the California is still Babe. You
885
00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:30.599
drive eight hours, you get to San Francisco, and you're
886
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:33.360
not even really halfway to the true part of North
887
00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:36.960
the California where Bigfoot is the area of northern California
888
00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:40.320
where the Bigfoot sightings are concentrated is so.
889
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:42.880
Sparsely populated.
890
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:46.280
There's way more trees than people, there's way more cows
891
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:51.119
and people, there's way more marijuana grows than people. But
892
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:56.400
the reality is there are still vast swaths that are uninhabited,
893
00:44:56.440 --> 00:44:59.480
and you know, could there be species that live there
894
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:04.079
that people don't aren't aware of? Absolutely? Absolutely. I mean
895
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:06.760
it's something that used to fascinate me as a kid.
896
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:10.480
But that being said, you know, you know, I always joke,
897
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:12.920
you know, it's like the now that we have all
898
00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:15.719
these four dey cameras on our phones, we better get
899
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:18.760
some proved pretty dard suit otherwise people you know, it's
900
00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:20.840
like it's like there used to be some pretty cool
901
00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:23.320
pictures that people would get, but now in this era
902
00:45:23.360 --> 00:45:25.440
of smartphones, there's no good pictures. And you know, that
903
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:29.360
to me is militates very heavily against the existence. But
904
00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:33.239
that being said, there are patches of land that that
905
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:35.880
even Native Americans did not traverse.
906
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:37.679
They're that big and they're that uninhabited.
907
00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:44.119
That's citerasing, and I think people don't don't necessarily even
908
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:48.360
in Ohio. They don't understand how much wilderness there is
909
00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:52.960
even in Ohio, and how much space that people aren't
910
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:55.679
just in on a regular basis. And if they are,
911
00:45:55.760 --> 00:46:00.960
it's you're passing through once every you know, through four months,
912
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:04.920
and the odds of you seeing you know, it's just
913
00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:07.039
it's it's it's yeah.
914
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:09.039
And you look at you look at in the last
915
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:13.119
twenty years that scientists have discovered and locked down with
916
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:15.440
great certainty that on the isle on the Island of
917
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:20.119
Flores in Indonesia, there was a subspecies of human. It
918
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:22.719
was a humanoid ive fight No, I don't know the right,
919
00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:25.800
but there was a subspecies of human.
920
00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:28.400
That was very small, you know, the best calls it
921
00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:30.400
the hobbit. But they existed.
922
00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:33.039
They've tested their DNA, they recovered skeletons, and they know
923
00:46:33.079 --> 00:46:35.519
that they existed and humans would have encountered them. And
924
00:46:35.559 --> 00:46:38.880
so when those humans told folk tales about encountering little people,
925
00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:41.079
it was like, oh, that's charming, what do they know?
926
00:46:41.199 --> 00:46:43.440
But it was true, right, and you look at some
927
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:45.960
of the we also know that, you know, humans and
928
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:48.519
the erthals into red and I'm sure when the first
929
00:46:48.559 --> 00:46:51.360
humans encountered the Ennarthols were really muscular and really big
930
00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:53.280
and really big bone. They're like giants, you know, these
931
00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:55.480
really strong humans. And it was like, what a legend
932
00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:59.000
that is, right, But you know, I give a lot
933
00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:02.559
of there's always a little bit of credibility to these
934
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:03.800
things that become legendary.
935
00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:11.079
M yeah, absolutely so. So I want where do you
936
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:13.840
see what we'll wrap this up? Where do you see
937
00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:18.880
your dad's case? I mean, do you have a like
938
00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:20.960
do you feel like this is going to get solved
939
00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:24.280
or do you feel like the wheels are going to
940
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:27.840
keep spinning and you may never get answers, Like, I
941
00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.559
know you want to have answers, but like, what's what's
942
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:31.559
your gut telling it?
943
00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:36.440
My gut has hope that it will all be solved.
944
00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:39.960
I try to listen to what the police have told
945
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:42.679
me that it's not a question of if, it's more
946
00:47:42.679 --> 00:47:45.840
of a when. But that being said, there's enough people
947
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:48.360
out there who try to manage my expectations and try
948
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:50.960
to you know who, Just tell me, Mike, you know
949
00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:53.800
you might never have the answers you want. You can
950
00:47:53.840 --> 00:47:56.599
even have a situation where the person is arrested and
951
00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:58.840
they plead guilty and there's no chance to question them
952
00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:00.599
in open court and no chance to figure out why
953
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:01.880
did this happen? How did this happen?
954
00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:07.159
Right, that type of thing, and so I, you know, look,
955
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:10.519
I for me, I never thought it would last this long.
956
00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:13.559
I thought when the crime happened, that would be solved
957
00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:16.920
in like three months, four months. It's been thirteen years,
958
00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:20.320
you know. I still hold out hope that somebody will
959
00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:25.480
come forward who knows something, or that science will advance
960
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:29.079
and that will get something. So I do have hope,
961
00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:31.559
and I hope that all the victims' families out there
962
00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:34.599
who are waiting for something similar, that they have hope,
963
00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:37.639
and that you know, the ability of some people to
964
00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:39.880
share these stories and make people where it gives them
965
00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:40.800
some comfort as well.
966
00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:45.119
Well, I certainly appreciate you know, you coming on and
967
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:49.719
sharing sharing some of these details and stuff about your father.
968
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:54.679
And we'll definitely, you know, in the description, will put
969
00:48:54.679 --> 00:48:56.960
a link for people to get to go to your
970
00:48:56.960 --> 00:49:00.639
website and check out, you know, they can find the book.
971
00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:08.039
It's called Noir by Necessity, right, It's it's got good reviews,
972
00:49:08.119 --> 00:49:13.320
better than my books anyway, kidding, but no, but we'll
973
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:15.119
put because I because I think, you know, We have
974
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:17.599
a lot of fans that listen and love true crime
975
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:23.400
just because I think people want to help solve mysteries,
976
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:26.880
you know, and the human aspect of it is is
977
00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:31.400
somebody you know, did did suffer a loss and they're
978
00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:36.000
looking looking for answers. I know my wife was when
979
00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:37.840
I said, you know you were going to come on
980
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:41.000
and talk and I said you'd been on Dateline, Well
981
00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:44.360
that perked her instance interest because she's you know, she's
982
00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:48.880
a note taker when she watches Dateline like well, but
983
00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:55.320
it's more like how can I get away with disappeared?
984
00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:58.559
But she's she but.
985
00:49:58.599 --> 00:50:02.079
She she just does And people because I think people
986
00:50:02.199 --> 00:50:06.360
really feel like there is strength in numbers and trying
987
00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:10.480
to solve some of these crimes, and it does it
988
00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:15.480
seems almost unimaginable that things can go unsolved in this
989
00:50:15.639 --> 00:50:19.440
dand age, and you know so. But I appreciate you,
990
00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:22.280
you know, sharing your story and I know it is
991
00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:26.400
not easy, but you know, much the same way your
992
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:29.679
dad went down fighting, at least you get your fighting
993
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:32.760
for him still too, So I appreciate that, and I
994
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:38.039
think everybody you know appreciates your doing that on behalf
995
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:39.159
of other victims too.
996
00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:44.079
And thank you so much for having me, Thank you
997
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:46.880
for tuning in to this week's episode of the From
998
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:52.199
the Shadows podcast. Until next time, never shy away from
999
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:56.719
the darkness or what may be lurking in the shadows
1000
00:50:57.480 --> 00:50:59.559
we are out.
1001
00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:13.559
God only knows we're tidy in our Seattle is. God
1002
00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:17.960
only knows we're tidy in our Seattle is