Shift to Vertical: David Haines, Group CEO, Flora Food Group

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- You've gotta run all the processes

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and deal with all the shareholder issues,

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the various stakeholder issue.

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Of course, you know,
that's part of the day job.

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But I think it's really
dangerous for a CEO

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when he loses sight

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of what actually the
company's trying to do.

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- All too often, size
becomes a disadvantage.

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Outside, insurgents start
to run circles around us.

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Inside, the endless meetings
and PowerPoint slides,

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well, they start to destroy our souls.

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What about those pesky customers?

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Well, they feel more like a distraction

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from our urgent meetings or
change management seminars.

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And of course, horizontal
activities matter,

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because that is where the
benefits of scale come from,

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but they're not enough.

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We must also remain maniacally vertical.

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We've got to keep our connection
directly with our customers

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and the frontline that serves them.

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How?

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Well, perhaps the answer lies,

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I don't know, in courting
plumbers, patching lightning,

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or maybe even putting a man on the Moon.

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(cheerful music)

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I'm Jimmy Allen,

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and this is the "Founder's
Mentality: The CEO Sessions."

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And today, we're speaking
with David Haines.

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He's CEO of the Flora Food Group.

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His career spanned across
founder-led companies like Mars,

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fast tech startups like
Vodafone in the early days,

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and large companies like Koch.

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He then moved into private
equity-backed companies,

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first serving as CEO of
Grohe for almost a decade

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before taking the helm at Flora.

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Across industries and continents,

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David has built brands
by staying vertical,

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connected to customers in the front line.

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And that mindset is something
that he's been working on,

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well, since his teenage
career as a cheesemaker.

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- So I started my frontline
belief, I suppose, pretty early.

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When I was a young teenager
living in Somerset,

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I started working in supermarkets.

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I worked on the shop floor of a factory

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when I was a student
making cheese in Ilminster.

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And of course, in my
early days in my career,

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I was in sales and learned the
power of talking to customers

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and what I would call real people.

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But I think the defining
moments really came later,

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you know, when I was in my mid-20s,

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when I joined Mars, Incorporated

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on the pet food side in Germany.

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And I had the very, very good fortune

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of being in a situation which
was quite unique, right?

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I joined in 1989,

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and it was just as the
Berlin Wall was coming down.

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And so, suddenly, we had
17 million new consumers

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that we had to market
and sell our products to,

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get distribution with.

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Shops in East Germany were not
a great big, large Walmart.

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They were a little
50-square-meter, if you were lucky,

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mom-and-pop by and large.

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So they couldn't take the whole range.

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And so there was no
point in us doing stuff

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that worked in the West Germany.

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We had to do stuff that
worked in East Germany.

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And the only way you could
do that was going over there

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and talking to people, and
all that to be organized,

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we know which products we were gonna sell,

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how are we gonna advertise?

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I mean, people have been
seen advertising for years,

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I suppose, but how are we
gonna focus our distribution,

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get our sales forces
there, get it all built?

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So it was like very pioneering

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to have suddenly this country.

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You know, it had the same name,

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I was about to say same language,

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but it wasn't even
exactly the same language,

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and it's certainly a
different cultural history.

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So it was just, you know,
through all of that.

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And the other thing, right,
was I was very fortunate

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in those early days to meet
the owners of Mars, Inc,

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John Mars and Forrest Mars.

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I remember presenting to
John as a 29-year-old.

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Candidly, I was very nervous.
I mean, he was the owner

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of one of the largest
companies in the world.

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Given that we turned the sales
around of what we were doing,

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my brand, which was called
Chappi back in the day,

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dog food, it went fine.

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A few months later, John
came back for another visit

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and somehow asked him to go

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for a walk through the car park with me.

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And when I came back, my boss asked me,

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"So what job did he offer you?"

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And I don't know, we just got on.

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And I think he also liked the, you know,

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the enthusiastic frontline focus

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of what we were trying
to do with his friends.

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- What's interesting about those stories

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is we often sit in boardrooms

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and talk about how our
consumers experience our brands.

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And then there's the
reality of in the frontline,

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the actual experience is very often driven

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not by what the brand owner wants,

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but what the stores wants,

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the recommender in between, et cetera.

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You must have taken that
experience to Vodafone.

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- Well, when I got hired by
Julian Horn-Smith and Christian,

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you know, that my task
was, global brand director,

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and my task was to create a
global brand within three years.

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And we went about it and
we defined the positioning

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and we worked out a vision
of where we wanted to get to,

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but we all had to do
with intangible assets.

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So suddenly we had to
migrate these 250 brands

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under the one Vodafone brand, right,

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across basically all parts of the world.

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And we had partner markets

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and we had direct markets
like here in Germany.

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So we created a vision for the brand,

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what we wanted the brand to stand for.

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We thought about the tools, but of course,

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you know, you had to change
the name in the screen,

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you had to change the service,

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but you had to change the stores.

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There were thousands of stores

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branded other things across Europe,

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and we had to think about things

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like with the new phones
that were coming out,

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we had to put people in the stores

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to get them to put five names
of your friends in the phone

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'cause it seems inconceivable today.

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But back then, just
getting your friends names

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into the phone so you could
talk with them spontaneously

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wasn't available.

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And Chris and Julian were
inspired, I believe, in many ways

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to bring in someone with
consumer goods experience

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to try and do this, to create this brand.

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And we achieved what we wanted,

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but we had some great tools, right?

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We had a great simple idea.

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Often the best marketing ideas,

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or first of all, these global jobs,

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you can only win with great ideas.

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You don't win with great PowerPoint.

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You have to have great ideas

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based on a strong strategy and insight.

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Ours was ask a simple human question.

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How are you? How are you doing?

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Because how you're doing

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is the beginning of every conversation.

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And that simple insight that
we tried to then bring to life

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through various, you
know, advertising tools,

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the Dandy Warhols, we did the music,

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went on to do a number one,

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we sponsored Formula
One, sponsored Ferrari.

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We tried to make our brand

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the most relevant brand of the day.

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And I think people would
say back then it was,

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we achieved our objective.

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- I love this idea of relevance
and the pride you took,

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and I totally agree
that at for its moment,

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you know, at the beginning
of the mobile industry,

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Vodafone is probably
the most relevant brand.

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And so I just even love to
go back to that one idea.

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How did you get a retailer

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to help a consumer put in
five names in a mobile phone?

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- The retailers all were
those days interested

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in selling handsets.

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Their whole raison d'etre
was to sell more handsets.

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And so the idea of having
more modern handsets,

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and I don't know if you
remember when we came up

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with this concept called Vodafone live!

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It was the first flip phone with a Sharp.

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And we pointed out to
these retailers, right,

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the way you sell a new handset
is to offer new services,

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services that then did not exist.

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And it may seem crazy today in 2025

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that the service was to put in five names

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so you could talk a bit more,

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but everything has to
start somewhere, right?

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And it did start with that simple service.

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So, you know, it was really exciting,

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completely irrelevant in 2025.

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So relevance to the consumer
is all about the here and now.

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As we say in the world of private equity,

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we have to play the ball as it lies,

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not how we'd like it to lie.

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- If you're not the most
relevant brand in the room,

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you're invisible.

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Incumbents lose to insurgents
because PowerPoint slides

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become more important than customers.

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They lose their obsession with
the full customer experience.

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That's every retailer, every
gatekeeper, every single hand

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between you and the end customer.

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What David did was
simple. He brought data.

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He showed the retailers

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that if they wanted to sell
more high margin handsets,

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they needed to help consumers

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use all the features on the phone.

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One initiative, walk out talking.

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Get the consumer to put the numbers

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of friends and family in
their phone, and guess what?

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They call friends and
family from their phone.

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He wasn't just shifting boxes,
he was creating experiences.

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And guess what? David did
it again with Vodafone live!

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And again, you have to
remember how long ago this was.

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Where combining Vodafone's network

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with a shiny new Sharp handset

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and a suite of services
transformed the mobile industry.

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The result, one and a
half million customers

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in seven months, and Vodafone went

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from just another mobile operator

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to the most relevant brand in mobile.

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And that's vertical focus.

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It isn't just thinking
about how your product

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or ad leaves your office.

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It is caring deeply about
how it hits the customer.

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Now in 2004, David entered
the private equity arena,

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this time as CEO of Grohe, and
armed with a vertical mindset

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and a frontline focus,
he had a single goal,

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revive that brand.

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- Grohe was a great trademark
available mainly in Europe,

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but it was not a great brand.

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It didn't have a brand essence
really other than quality,

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a little boring but reliable.

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So that was a good platform
off which we could build,

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so my predecessors had done a good job.

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And we created what we used to
call real relevant innovation

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that we thought consumers
would pay a premium for

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'cause our big danger was the
Chinese and cheap imports,

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which would copy PR designs very quickly.

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As you are selling these products

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primarily through what we
would call today an influencer,

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an influencer could be
a plumber, you know.

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You floors, it's broke,
you're having a new bathroom,

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the plumber will come around
and recommend something,

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or an architect if you're doing it

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with an architect or an interior designer,

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all three influencers.

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We tried to come up with this concept

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called Moments Of Truth.

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What was the point that
made us different, special,

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and better than the alternative

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expressed in a consumer friendly way?

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So, for example, the core
benefit as it turns out of Grohe

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was the what they called the cartridge

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in the middle of the tap,

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which made it move very
softly and very gently,

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and by the way, also,
when it's 30 years old.

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This concept of SilkMove was born.

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Another one that we
had in our thermostats,

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00:09:58,890 --> 00:10:01,710
we had cold water run around the outside

253
00:10:01,710 --> 00:10:03,030
so that you didn't scold yourself

254
00:10:03,030 --> 00:10:04,620
on the hot water on the inside.

255
00:10:04,620 --> 00:10:06,900
The moment of truth was called CoolTouch.

256
00:10:06,900 --> 00:10:10,860
And there was a concept
that suddenly, very simply

257
00:10:10,860 --> 00:10:15,510
gave the plumber, the
architect, the designer a reason

258
00:10:15,510 --> 00:10:17,970
to recommend our products to the consumer.

259
00:10:17,970 --> 00:10:21,180
And hey, yes, Grohe may be
a little bit more expensive,

260
00:10:21,180 --> 00:10:22,013
but in the end you're getting

261
00:10:22,013 --> 00:10:24,300
a true relevant consumer benefit.

262
00:10:24,300 --> 00:10:25,560
- The story of Grohe is amazing.

263
00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:29,010
I wanna pause for a moment
to give people context.

264
00:10:29,010 --> 00:10:31,440
There was a massive
influx of Chinese goods

265
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,400
selling often at, you know,
60, 40, 20% of the price

266
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,500
that a good Grohe product would sell.

267
00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:40,770
And a lot of people from the
outside were advising you,

268
00:10:40,770 --> 00:10:43,650
you know, "Buddy, you're at
the wrong end of this market."

269
00:10:43,650 --> 00:10:46,890
It's about to commoditize,
and the CEO has a choice.

270
00:10:46,890 --> 00:10:49,560
I accept that or I fight it

271
00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:53,160
and recommit to the
differentiation, that's our product.

272
00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,630
And I think Moments Of
Truth is this great idea

273
00:10:57,630 --> 00:10:59,017
that you introduce that said,

274
00:10:59,017 --> 00:11:01,350
"Let's assert our right to be premium

275
00:11:01,350 --> 00:11:03,930
and help the consumer understand why."

276
00:11:03,930 --> 00:11:07,320
And I think it's so easy
for CEOs at that moment

277
00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,600
to give up on their category.

278
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:10,920
- I went there with the mission.

279
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,320
The private equities industry
was renowned at the time

280
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,570
for the ability to cut costs.

281
00:11:15,570 --> 00:11:17,190
But growth, I think it's fair

282
00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:18,900
to say without offending anybody,

283
00:11:18,900 --> 00:11:20,370
was not one of their strengths.

284
00:11:20,370 --> 00:11:22,680
We wrote the manifesto
to grow and cut costs,

285
00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:25,937
and the only way we could
grow was to reframe the brand,

286
00:11:25,937 --> 00:11:27,540
give the consumer benefits

287
00:11:27,540 --> 00:11:30,480
and reasons to pay the
premium, Moments Of Truth,

288
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,430
and do that over time with great design.

289
00:11:32,430 --> 00:11:33,720
And that's kind of what we did.

290
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,350
And by the way, the plumber in
the end was easy to convince

291
00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:39,360
because the plumber certainly in this

292
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,630
wasn't really interested in
selling cheap Chinese stuff

293
00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:46,530
because he or she knew six,
nine, 12, 18 months later,

294
00:11:46,530 --> 00:11:48,180
the consumer would be calling them back,

295
00:11:48,180 --> 00:11:50,310
asking to break open their
walls 'cause guess what?

296
00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:52,050
Wasn't working or leaking.

297
00:11:52,050 --> 00:11:55,950
And so actually in the end,
there was a consumer insecurity

298
00:11:55,950 --> 00:12:00,950
that we could, of course,
reassure with a quality brand.

299
00:12:01,770 --> 00:12:03,450
As I said, our predecessors did a good job

300
00:12:03,450 --> 00:12:05,310
building a reputation for quality.

301
00:12:05,310 --> 00:12:06,930
We brought design and Moments Of Truth

302
00:12:06,930 --> 00:12:08,497
and reasons to believe into that.

303
00:12:08,497 --> 00:12:10,140
And so we were able to build on that

304
00:12:10,140 --> 00:12:14,370
and create this lifestyle
brand which went truly global.

305
00:12:14,370 --> 00:12:17,100
- What I love about David is
that he's a straight shooter.

306
00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:19,500
Real growth doesn't
come from cutting costs,

307
00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:22,080
it comes from finding
those moments of truth

308
00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:23,007
with the customer.

309
00:12:23,007 --> 00:12:25,350
And someone else who
knew this incredibly well

310
00:12:25,350 --> 00:12:29,100
was Adrian Gore, Founder
and Group CEO of Discovery.

311
00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:31,320
In the early '90s when Discovery mostly

312
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,120
was focused on health insurance,

313
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,150
South Africa faced a
crisis, a lack of doctors,

314
00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:38,670
high levels of disease,
and strict regulation.

315
00:12:38,670 --> 00:12:40,320
Gore's mission was clear,

316
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,080
make people healthier and
safeguard their lives.

317
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,860
But his master stroke was
to flip the insurance model.

318
00:12:46,860 --> 00:12:50,790
Rather than just covering
illness, he set out to prevent it.

319
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:52,830
He launched Vitality,

320
00:12:52,830 --> 00:12:55,680
a program that promotes healthier choices.

321
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:57,990
Its promise, if you get healthier

322
00:12:57,990 --> 00:13:00,270
and make it cheaper for us to cover you,

323
00:13:00,270 --> 00:13:01,830
we'll share the benefits.

324
00:13:01,830 --> 00:13:04,290
Eat well, work out, get rewards.

325
00:13:04,290 --> 00:13:06,330
This shared value model,

326
00:13:06,330 --> 00:13:10,050
healthier customers,
equal stronger profits,

327
00:13:10,050 --> 00:13:13,260
became Discovery's growth
engine, and it worked.

328
00:13:13,260 --> 00:13:15,810
Discovery expanded beyond South Africa

329
00:13:15,810 --> 00:13:18,480
and is now in more than
40 markets worldwide.

330
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,000
That's vertical orientation.

331
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,130
Study what your customers are doing

332
00:13:23,130 --> 00:13:25,980
and find out new ways to help.

333
00:13:25,980 --> 00:13:27,630
By the way, my producer's
gonna kill me on this,

334
00:13:27,630 --> 00:13:30,000
but I've gotta tell you guys a fun fact.

335
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,820
So about a decade ago, I
was doing a founder's forum

336
00:13:32,820 --> 00:13:36,750
in South Africa, and Adrian
Gore from Discovery was there,

337
00:13:36,750 --> 00:13:38,790
but so too is Robbie Brozin,

338
00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:40,920
the legendary founder of Nando's.

339
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:42,690
And it turns out both of them

340
00:13:42,690 --> 00:13:45,900
had gone to the same primary
school at the same time

341
00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:48,690
and took the same bus, bus number four.

342
00:13:48,690 --> 00:13:50,010
And in my calculation,

343
00:13:50,010 --> 00:13:52,800
that bus driver has created more founders

344
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,320
than any other bus driver on earth.

345
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:56,910
Come on, prove me wrong.

346
00:13:56,910 --> 00:13:58,320
You know, the stories of Vodafone grow

347
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,240
and Discovery are about the same thing.

348
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:01,890
Understand your customer needs

349
00:14:01,890 --> 00:14:05,040
and make something
insanely relevant to them.

350
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,920
And that's not just a
lesson for telecom or TAPs.

351
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,690
Our next guest, Iona Gaskell

352
00:14:09,690 --> 00:14:12,660
who develops artist
identities at Abubilla Music,

353
00:14:12,660 --> 00:14:14,430
puts it even more starkly.

354
00:14:14,430 --> 00:14:16,890
Before you can connect with fans,

355
00:14:16,890 --> 00:14:19,320
you need to know exactly who you are.

356
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:20,820
It's a conversation.

357
00:14:20,820 --> 00:14:23,670
At Vodafone, David began
with a simple slogan,

358
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:24,930
how are you?

359
00:14:24,930 --> 00:14:28,053
For Iona, the starting
point's deeper, who are you?

360
00:14:28,890 --> 00:14:32,970
- My role is head of artist
voice as well as outreach.

361
00:14:32,970 --> 00:14:35,670
So that is both working with artists

362
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:38,940
when we first sign them to help them

363
00:14:38,940 --> 00:14:42,240
and us figure out who the
hell they are as an artist.

364
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:43,920
And the first step of
what we're trying to do

365
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,800
is build their, like, artist manifesto.

366
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,920
So we try and create a
kind of keystone document

367
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:54,390
that articulates a mission
statement and their values

368
00:14:54,390 --> 00:14:57,630
and, you know, the characteristics

369
00:14:57,630 --> 00:15:00,090
that feel most core to them,

370
00:15:00,090 --> 00:15:02,040
that they want to
communicate with the world,

371
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:07,040
and also the interesting
frictions within that personality

372
00:15:08,220 --> 00:15:10,410
that are actually what makes them unique.

373
00:15:10,410 --> 00:15:13,650
- You're talking about
what are conflicts inherent

374
00:15:13,650 --> 00:15:16,770
with them, or what did you mean by that?

375
00:15:16,770 --> 00:15:18,660
- In that initial discovery phase,

376
00:15:18,660 --> 00:15:20,160
there is often a pattern emerges

377
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,590
that there are a few conflicts

378
00:15:22,590 --> 00:15:24,900
and tensions within their character.

379
00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:27,128
If as a label we came along and said,

380
00:15:27,128 --> 00:15:30,870
well, you can't be both a sort of,

381
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:35,430
like, really thoughtful,
intellectual activist artist

382
00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:39,930
and also a goofy, playful nerd.

383
00:15:39,930 --> 00:15:41,910
And we might say you have
to pick one or the other,

384
00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:43,830
smooth out those contradictions,

385
00:15:43,830 --> 00:15:46,020
but in doing so, you flatten the surface

386
00:15:46,020 --> 00:15:50,700
and you create something
too smooth and impenetrable

387
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:54,870
that doesn't have the
eccentricities and quirks

388
00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:58,440
that actually make interesting
people and interesting art.

389
00:15:58,440 --> 00:15:59,880
- You know, in business we'd say,

390
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:01,440
where does the customer come

391
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,480
into all this brand development.

392
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,610
In your artist voice work, you know,

393
00:16:05,610 --> 00:16:08,100
kind of where do the fans come in?

394
00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:12,330
- Well, fans are obviously
so important to artists,

395
00:16:12,330 --> 00:16:17,160
but you can't make art via focus group.

396
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,160
What I think is really important

397
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,150
is starting with them figuring
out so strongly who they are

398
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:25,230
and then what is the world

399
00:16:25,230 --> 00:16:28,290
that they're trying to
build around their art.

400
00:16:28,290 --> 00:16:32,460
And it's into that world that
we wanna invite people in

401
00:16:32,460 --> 00:16:35,370
and find the people who
are going to love it there.

402
00:16:35,370 --> 00:16:36,203
It probably means

403
00:16:36,203 --> 00:16:37,890
that there are gonna be
other people who hate it.

404
00:16:37,890 --> 00:16:40,980
You don't want to build an artist world

405
00:16:40,980 --> 00:16:43,210
that everybody thinks is kind of fine

406
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,560
because that way you are not going

407
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,160
to really find your people
that you really want

408
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,220
to be in dialogue with through
the music that you're making.

409
00:16:53,220 --> 00:16:54,720
- What has been your learning

410
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,810
once that artist actually
starts creating music

411
00:16:57,810 --> 00:16:59,733
and releasing it into that world?

412
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:04,950
- We have found that it tends to be

413
00:17:04,950 --> 00:17:08,070
that you then need to start adjusting.

414
00:17:08,070 --> 00:17:13,070
An example I can give is, an
artist that I've worked with,

415
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,350
they had an idea of
everything they put out

416
00:17:16,350 --> 00:17:20,460
being incredibly highly
curated and intentional

417
00:17:20,460 --> 00:17:24,150
and kinda high production
value, very glossy.

418
00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:26,610
And so for the first set of releases,

419
00:17:26,610 --> 00:17:27,443
that's what we went with.

420
00:17:27,443 --> 00:17:32,443
We sort of planned those kinds
of pieces of storytelling,

421
00:17:32,580 --> 00:17:35,010
and they did okay,

422
00:17:35,010 --> 00:17:40,010
but the thing that landed
was a three minute video

423
00:17:40,170 --> 00:17:42,420
that they just recorded on their phone

424
00:17:42,420 --> 00:17:44,220
when they were kind of
mad about something,

425
00:17:44,220 --> 00:17:46,350
like they'd seen something
that pissed them off

426
00:17:46,350 --> 00:17:49,380
and they just recorded a reaction it

427
00:17:49,380 --> 00:17:52,140
that through which their
real character came through.

428
00:17:52,140 --> 00:17:54,480
It was speaking to these topics

429
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,070
that they really felt
were underrepresented,

430
00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:59,160
but there was an immediacy in it

431
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,680
that is what really resonated with people.

432
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,130
So much work has to go into
laying that groundwork.

433
00:18:05,130 --> 00:18:07,170
Then it's kind of like catching lightning.

434
00:18:07,170 --> 00:18:09,210
You cannot predict the moment

435
00:18:09,210 --> 00:18:11,460
that the lightning bolt
is going to strike.

436
00:18:11,460 --> 00:18:14,640
You just have to be really prepared

437
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,800
so that when it happens you can respond

438
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,380
with your full authentic self.

439
00:18:19,380 --> 00:18:21,300
And that is what will make that moment

440
00:18:21,300 --> 00:18:24,000
be the catching lightning
or the moment of truth.

441
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,310
That's what will make it be real.

442
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:29,520
- You know, it's that phrase
again, moments of truth.

443
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,710
For Iona, it's when an artist's music

444
00:18:31,710 --> 00:18:33,330
not only reaches the audience

445
00:18:33,330 --> 00:18:36,000
but truly resonates with that audience.

446
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,090
And for David it's when a product
proves why it's different,

447
00:18:39,090 --> 00:18:42,030
why it's special, why it's
better, and does so in a way

448
00:18:42,030 --> 00:18:44,490
that the customer really understands.

449
00:18:44,490 --> 00:18:46,470
Different worlds but same concept,

450
00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:48,363
it's kind of the moment people get it.

451
00:18:48,363 --> 00:18:50,970
But, you know, once you spark that moment,

452
00:18:50,970 --> 00:18:54,060
the hardest act of leadership
is keeping it alive

453
00:18:54,060 --> 00:18:56,430
because your success means you grow,

454
00:18:56,430 --> 00:18:59,640
and that grow means the pole of horizontal

455
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,620
starts taking you outside the window

456
00:19:01,620 --> 00:19:03,270
where you're looking at customers

457
00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:05,430
and back into those internal meetings,

458
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:08,190
back into the endless seminars.

459
00:19:08,190 --> 00:19:10,230
So the question for David was,

460
00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:14,730
how do you stay vertical,
connected to the customer

461
00:19:14,730 --> 00:19:16,980
when the pole of complexity

462
00:19:16,980 --> 00:19:18,993
keeps dragging leadership sideways?

463
00:19:20,250 --> 00:19:25,140
- I've always worked since I've
been in leadership positions

464
00:19:25,140 --> 00:19:26,970
with these manifestos,

465
00:19:26,970 --> 00:19:29,820
and you've seen over the
years manifestos that grow.

466
00:19:29,820 --> 00:19:32,610
You've seen them for Flora
Food Group, various versions.

467
00:19:32,610 --> 00:19:34,170
What is a manifesto?

468
00:19:34,170 --> 00:19:38,430
A manifesto tries to say,
what is our true vision?

469
00:19:38,430 --> 00:19:40,560
What is our purpose? What is our mission?

470
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,260
What are our annual targets?
What are our values?

471
00:19:43,260 --> 00:19:45,087
What are we good at?
What are we not good at?

472
00:19:45,087 --> 00:19:48,840
And what are our key imperatives
broken down into actions?

473
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,250
I try and always ask the question,

474
00:19:50,250 --> 00:19:53,910
what's the equivalent of the
Kennedy put a man on the Moon

475
00:19:53,910 --> 00:19:56,490
and bring him back safely
by the end of the decade

476
00:19:56,490 --> 00:19:58,860
when he went to NASA in 1963?

477
00:19:58,860 --> 00:20:00,481
And so I've always tried to do that,

478
00:20:00,481 --> 00:20:03,750
create a very clear purpose
for our organizations,

479
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:06,930
and at the end, the consumer
is always in the middle,

480
00:20:06,930 --> 00:20:09,360
because what's business about?

481
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:12,900
It's about selling more stuff
to more people more often

482
00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:13,770
at the end of the day.

483
00:20:13,770 --> 00:20:17,700
And so as a CEO, I think
it's very important

484
00:20:17,700 --> 00:20:19,800
that you stay on this vertical focus,

485
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,570
have the voice of your customer

486
00:20:21,570 --> 00:20:22,830
in discussions that you're talking about.

487
00:20:22,830 --> 00:20:25,530
And yes, of course, you've
gotta run all the processes

488
00:20:25,530 --> 00:20:27,300
and deal with all the shareholder issues,

489
00:20:27,300 --> 00:20:28,380
the various stakeholder issues.

490
00:20:28,380 --> 00:20:30,360
Of course, that's part of the day job.

491
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:32,580
But I think it's really
dangerous for a CEO

492
00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:34,170
when he loses sight

493
00:20:34,170 --> 00:20:36,120
of what actually the
companies are trying to do.

494
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:39,240
I pilgrimage over regularly
to Bentonville in Arkansas

495
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:40,620
to talk to the guys at Walmart

496
00:20:40,620 --> 00:20:42,450
or talk to the German retailers.

497
00:20:42,450 --> 00:20:45,090
I was down in Cologne
recently talking to Ava.

498
00:20:45,090 --> 00:20:46,500
Yes, of course, I still do that

499
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:47,817
because I learn so much, right?

500
00:20:47,817 --> 00:20:49,290
And we invite our customers

501
00:20:49,290 --> 00:20:50,910
to our customer experience center

502
00:20:50,910 --> 00:20:52,950
where we show them our culinary products

503
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:54,720
and we try and point out
how relevant they are

504
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,270
and how this is not just
a simple then tap company,

505
00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:58,440
now margarine company.

506
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,350
What we're offering is
solutions to problems

507
00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:03,300
with Moments Of Truth,
with relevant brands,

508
00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:05,850
with relevant products,
with relevant ideas.

509
00:21:05,850 --> 00:21:08,730
And so there is a red thread
through these manifestos

510
00:21:08,730 --> 00:21:11,640
of relevance, purpose, vision, mission.

511
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:12,990
I'm a big believer in values.

512
00:21:12,990 --> 00:21:14,490
And again, at Flora Food Group,

513
00:21:14,490 --> 00:21:16,230
you know, we have three values,

514
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:20,400
performance, passion, and care.

515
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,040
Clearly we're a
performance-driven organization,

516
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,080
but we're also a caring organization.

517
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,850
You know, we saw that
how important that was

518
00:21:26,850 --> 00:21:28,800
through COVID and the like.

519
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,240
And I think as you get older,

520
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:31,980
you learn a bit, right, hopefully.

521
00:21:31,980 --> 00:21:33,030
When you hang around good people,

522
00:21:33,030 --> 00:21:34,920
if you're not stupid, you
do pick up the odd thing.

523
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:39,210
- What do you want the
new 25-year-old David

524
00:21:39,210 --> 00:21:42,090
to get from the manifesto?

525
00:21:42,090 --> 00:21:43,890
- If I think back to the mid-1980s,

526
00:21:43,890 --> 00:21:47,940
I was inspired by John Forrest Mars,

527
00:21:47,940 --> 00:21:49,350
and in fact many of the other Mars leaders

528
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:50,820
with whom I'm still friends.

529
00:21:50,820 --> 00:21:52,500
And why was I inspired?

530
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:54,000
I believed in what the
company was trying to do,

531
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,050
I believed in their values,

532
00:21:55,050 --> 00:21:56,700
I believed in the bigger picture.

533
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,600
And if my manifestos, our
Flora Food Group manifestos

534
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,580
can deliver the same inspiration

535
00:22:02,580 --> 00:22:03,810
with where the company's trying to go,

536
00:22:03,810 --> 00:22:05,130
with what we're trying to do,

537
00:22:05,130 --> 00:22:07,080
if I can inspire young men and women

538
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,870
to sign up and come
with us on that journey

539
00:22:09,870 --> 00:22:12,840
and they can find their home
in that environment, right,

540
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,520
which is a performance-driven one.

541
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:15,720
And let's be clear about it.

542
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,440
A performance-driven organization
is not for everybody.

543
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,660
And by the way, I'm also
very clear about that.

544
00:22:21,660 --> 00:22:23,310
It's not a judgment of someone

545
00:22:23,310 --> 00:22:24,960
if they don't want to go for it,

546
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:26,640
but, you know, frankly, we like people

547
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,030
who wanna play the top
of the champions league,

548
00:22:30,030 --> 00:22:32,070
and if you don't want to, that's fine,

549
00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:34,350
but please go and play
somewhere else, that's okay.

550
00:22:34,350 --> 00:22:38,040
- How do you connect with
those young men and women

551
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,410
that you're trying to inspire?

552
00:22:40,410 --> 00:22:42,660
What's the process by
which you talk to them?

553
00:22:43,620 --> 00:22:46,920
- Well, still I try and
walk the talk, right?

554
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,330
I mean, I still visit shops

555
00:22:48,330 --> 00:22:51,990
and I still do what is
called a red is good call

556
00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:54,150
where the people down in the organization

557
00:22:54,150 --> 00:22:56,970
are invited with myself
and our HR director.

558
00:22:56,970 --> 00:22:59,250
Once every quarter,
there's groups of eight

559
00:22:59,250 --> 00:23:00,300
to tell us what they think

560
00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:02,490
about the company that's not working.

561
00:23:02,490 --> 00:23:04,620
We're not interested in
the stuff that is working.

562
00:23:04,620 --> 00:23:08,040
That's easy. But what would they improve?

563
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,080
What's their advice? And
it's quite hard, right?

564
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,660
'Cause a lot of people
don't wanna open up,

565
00:23:12,660 --> 00:23:15,060
they don't wanna bring bad news.

566
00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:17,550
But I mean, I'm very fortunate

567
00:23:17,550 --> 00:23:20,260
to work with an outstanding
chief financial officer

568
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:22,890
at Flora, Florence Naviner.

569
00:23:22,890 --> 00:23:25,927
And she's always on the
case and requesting,

570
00:23:25,927 --> 00:23:28,980
"Hey, you know, bad
news does not age well.

571
00:23:28,980 --> 00:23:30,150
Let's get it out on the table.

572
00:23:30,150 --> 00:23:31,200
We got a chance of fixing it."

573
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:32,760
And so we have all the formal stuff,

574
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,710
but I think the informal stuff

575
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:37,200
where you just talk to people
is even more important.

576
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:38,460
By the way, having two kids, you know,

577
00:23:38,460 --> 00:23:40,170
are in their early 30s and
in their business world

578
00:23:40,170 --> 00:23:41,610
doesn't do any harm either

579
00:23:41,610 --> 00:23:43,290
and get their pretty honest feedback,

580
00:23:43,290 --> 00:23:44,880
which they both love
to give me frequently.

581
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,410
- I bet. Yeah.

582
00:23:46,410 --> 00:23:48,750
- So stay connected,
right, and stay humble.

583
00:23:48,750 --> 00:23:52,290
There's one thing over the years I suppose

584
00:23:52,290 --> 00:23:53,823
is to stay down to earth.

585
00:23:54,930 --> 00:23:59,160
Stay humble, stay on the
ground, talk to people,

586
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,380
stay normal, and create an environment

587
00:24:01,380 --> 00:24:03,090
where people are okay
to tell you the truth.

588
00:24:03,090 --> 00:24:05,730
- So David, this vertical orientation,

589
00:24:05,730 --> 00:24:08,280
this time that you're
committing these red is good,

590
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:11,610
most CEOs will also say,
"God, if I only had the time

591
00:24:11,610 --> 00:24:13,200
and energy to do that stuff."

592
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,050
So what gets in the way of
your vertical orientation?

593
00:24:16,050 --> 00:24:17,820
What do you have to fight?

594
00:24:17,820 --> 00:24:19,710
- You have to fight the calendar,

595
00:24:19,710 --> 00:24:22,260
you know, where everyone's
trying to get in the calendar

596
00:24:22,260 --> 00:24:24,900
of all the various stakeholders
that I'm involved with.

597
00:24:24,900 --> 00:24:27,540
I mean, as you mentioned,

598
00:24:27,540 --> 00:24:32,310
I've been CEO now in private
equity finance organizations.

599
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:36,480
The shareholder management
is a big part of it in PE,

600
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,880
setting expectations, reporting,

601
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,650
discussing issues, getting advice.

602
00:24:40,650 --> 00:24:42,990
I'm also very fortunate I've
got an outstanding chairman

603
00:24:42,990 --> 00:24:45,540
and a gentleman called Sir Roger Carr,

604
00:24:45,540 --> 00:24:47,100
a veteran of British industry.

605
00:24:47,100 --> 00:24:48,270
There's the shareholder management,

606
00:24:48,270 --> 00:24:49,620
there's the other stakeholders,

607
00:24:49,620 --> 00:24:53,340
the organizational processes,
this permanent reviews,

608
00:24:53,340 --> 00:24:55,470
but they are all part of the day job.

609
00:24:55,470 --> 00:24:58,800
But what I do is try and spend time,

610
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:03,300
I think you would call it
deep work in Bain-speak,

611
00:25:03,300 --> 00:25:05,910
thinking about how we stay true north

612
00:25:05,910 --> 00:25:06,750
of what we're trying to do,

613
00:25:06,750 --> 00:25:08,640
this vertical thing, consumer orientation.

614
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,290
And for that I often get accused

615
00:25:10,290 --> 00:25:12,090
of being the optimist in the room, right?

616
00:25:12,090 --> 00:25:14,490
But I think you have to in the CEO role,

617
00:25:14,490 --> 00:25:16,156
where are we trying to
go? What's our vision?

618
00:25:16,156 --> 00:25:17,730
What are we gonna do in the
next three months, six months?

619
00:25:17,730 --> 00:25:19,200
But what are we gonna do in three years?

620
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,600
Because, you know, if I don't
do that, then it won't happen

621
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:22,920
'cause everyone else is getting consumed

622
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,870
by delivering this week's, this month's,

623
00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:27,420
next quarter's numbers,
which is right by the way.

624
00:25:27,420 --> 00:25:29,160
I mean, that's our job.

625
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,410
And we had a world global
call only yesterday

626
00:25:31,410 --> 00:25:32,640
with our top 100 leaders.

627
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,310
And there I was preaching, of course,

628
00:25:35,310 --> 00:25:38,430
deliver our FCO 6 for 2025,

629
00:25:38,430 --> 00:25:40,320
'cause now's the time, you have
to remind everybody of that,

630
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,080
now is not the time
for fancy vision stuff.

631
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,000
You know, there's also, let's be honest,

632
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,070
there's a time and a place for everything.

633
00:25:47,070 --> 00:25:50,040
So in the end, what are the crown jewels

634
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,230
of an organization that I work in?

635
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:53,640
I always think there are two.

636
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:54,990
There's of course the brands

637
00:25:54,990 --> 00:25:57,870
which you inherit in
whatever state they are

638
00:25:57,870 --> 00:25:59,400
and you try and leave whenever you leave

639
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,380
in a better state when you pass the baton.

640
00:26:01,380 --> 00:26:03,570
But the older I get, the more you realize

641
00:26:03,570 --> 00:26:05,190
it's actually all about
the other crown jewel

642
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:06,240
as well the people.

643
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,620
And I know this is an old
cliche, so forgive me for it.

644
00:26:10,620 --> 00:26:12,993
Surround yourself with outstanding people.

645
00:26:13,855 --> 00:26:16,650
And I have an optimistic
disposition, thank God.

646
00:26:16,650 --> 00:26:18,360
I didn't choose it. It kind of happened.

647
00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:19,680
And I do think in these roles,

648
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,240
'cause they are, the other
thing I would say, right,

649
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,210
these CEO roles, and I try
and point it out at home,

650
00:26:24,210 --> 00:26:25,920
they are seriously lonelier.

651
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,780
- Why is it lonely?

652
00:26:27,780 --> 00:26:29,550
- You know, you're making tough decisions

653
00:26:29,550 --> 00:26:33,090
that affect thousands of
peoples lives at times.

654
00:26:33,090 --> 00:26:34,380
In Grohe the restructuring

655
00:26:34,380 --> 00:26:35,610
that we had to do when we walked in.

656
00:26:35,610 --> 00:26:37,500
We had to let a lot of people go.

657
00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:40,410
It was front page news in the German press

658
00:26:40,410 --> 00:26:41,940
for the whole locust debate, you know.

659
00:26:41,940 --> 00:26:44,280
It's pretty lonely when you death threats,

660
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,570
when you have a book written about you,

661
00:26:45,570 --> 00:26:46,440
which is still published,

662
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,360
by the way, in Germany to have you killed.

663
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:49,650
That's pretty lonely.

664
00:26:49,650 --> 00:26:53,310
When you're dealing with
very deep personal issues

665
00:26:53,310 --> 00:26:54,143
of your colleagues

666
00:26:54,143 --> 00:26:55,890
that you know about in
their personal lives.

667
00:26:55,890 --> 00:26:58,770
Over the years together we've
seen many tough situations,

668
00:26:58,770 --> 00:27:02,490
whether it's health issues,
personal issues, career issues,

669
00:27:02,490 --> 00:27:06,540
and to stay focused and
optimistic in the organization

670
00:27:06,540 --> 00:27:08,580
when everyone's looking
at you all the time

671
00:27:08,580 --> 00:27:11,010
and looking not at you,
but, you know, what you do,

672
00:27:11,010 --> 00:27:13,743
what you say, how you act, how you behave.

673
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,860
You know, you're always on.

674
00:27:16,860 --> 00:27:19,890
That's where you need to be
surrounded by also at home

675
00:27:19,890 --> 00:27:21,180
and in your personal life

676
00:27:21,180 --> 00:27:25,530
hobbies, activities, and an infrastructure

677
00:27:25,530 --> 00:27:27,880
that has nothing to do
with your business card.

678
00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:31,080
- I think this is the most underrated

679
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,540
yet vital trait of great leaders.

680
00:27:33,540 --> 00:27:36,320
It's the courage to be
authentic, to be vulnerable,

681
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,180
to talk about the things that
no one else dares mention.

682
00:27:39,180 --> 00:27:42,000
David said it. The CEO job can be lonely.

683
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,700
I mean, you know a lot of
things you can't share.

684
00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:47,460
There are a couple decisions
that only you can make.

685
00:27:47,460 --> 00:27:49,680
And everybody wants your energy,

686
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,310
but very few feel it's important
to give you their energy.

687
00:27:53,310 --> 00:27:55,950
You know, I love that
David walks the talk.

688
00:27:55,950 --> 00:27:57,750
It's his openness and honesty

689
00:27:57,750 --> 00:28:01,110
that then can spark
real adult conversations

690
00:28:01,110 --> 00:28:03,120
in those red is good meetings

691
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:04,890
and it's what turns a manifesto,

692
00:28:04,890 --> 00:28:07,830
which could so easily
just be words on a wall,

693
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:09,900
into something people can live by.

694
00:28:09,900 --> 00:28:11,040
And if you want more stories

695
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,530
of CEOs really telling it like it is,

696
00:28:13,530 --> 00:28:15,390
check the link in our show notes.

697
00:28:15,390 --> 00:28:18,093
And now back to David with
some rapid fire questions.

698
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,420
What brings you energy?

699
00:28:21,420 --> 00:28:22,830
- I love to build brands.

700
00:28:22,830 --> 00:28:25,830
Take a brand, whatever
state it's in, sort it out,

701
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:27,240
move it forward, and get it healthy.

702
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:28,650
I love it. It's a real kick.

703
00:28:28,650 --> 00:28:30,980
- So what drains you of energy?

704
00:28:30,980 --> 00:28:32,601
- Yeah, shareholders

705
00:28:32,601 --> 00:28:35,700
who have what I call master
of the universe-itis.

706
00:28:35,700 --> 00:28:37,710
- I know what you're talking about.

707
00:28:37,710 --> 00:28:40,830
Do you have energy vampires in your work?

708
00:28:40,830 --> 00:28:43,230
- You always have some energy vampires,

709
00:28:43,230 --> 00:28:45,360
and it's often difficult to find them,

710
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:46,680
but you gotta find them.

711
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:47,970
And I use a simple methodology,

712
00:28:47,970 --> 00:28:50,400
what I call a Skill Will Matrix.

713
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,190
HR gang hate it 'cause they
think it's far too simple,

714
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:55,950
but it's, you know, skill on
the X-axis, will on the Y-axis,

715
00:28:55,950 --> 00:28:57,750
and just plot where everybody is.

716
00:28:57,750 --> 00:29:00,360
And clearly bottom left
hand corner, frankly,

717
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:01,620
no point in having a long conversation,

718
00:29:01,620 --> 00:29:06,300
deal with high skill, but
low will serious conversation

719
00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:08,100
and actually the most dangerous.

720
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:10,290
So you either need to
get them on board or out.

721
00:29:10,290 --> 00:29:12,210
Low skill, high will, train.

722
00:29:12,210 --> 00:29:14,670
High skill, high will, let 'em loose.

723
00:29:14,670 --> 00:29:17,190
- What's the best advice
you've ever received?

724
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:19,890
- It's a simple one,
given to me by a French,

725
00:29:19,890 --> 00:29:22,257
very successful businessman
when I was 28 years old

726
00:29:22,257 --> 00:29:23,970
and was having my first child.

727
00:29:23,970 --> 00:29:26,370
Take your family out
for lunch every Sunday.

728
00:29:26,370 --> 00:29:28,620
Your kids can't run off to the bedroom

729
00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:29,880
when you try and have a conversation.

730
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,410
Your wife doesn't have
to spend the morning

731
00:29:31,410 --> 00:29:32,610
or you have to have done,
have to spend the morning

732
00:29:32,610 --> 00:29:35,363
in the kitchen cooking and you
actually get some good food.

733
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:39,090
- Okay, let's recap some
of our key takeaways

734
00:29:39,090 --> 00:29:40,293
from today's episode.

735
00:29:41,670 --> 00:29:43,110
- You don't win with great PowerPoint.

736
00:29:43,110 --> 00:29:44,190
You have to have great ideas

737
00:29:44,190 --> 00:29:46,620
based on a strong strategy and insight.

738
00:29:46,620 --> 00:29:50,820
Ours was ask a simple human
question. How are you?

739
00:29:50,820 --> 00:29:53,970
That simple insight that we
tried to then bring to life

740
00:29:53,970 --> 00:29:56,670
through various, you
know, advertising tools,

741
00:29:56,670 --> 00:29:57,720
we tried to make our brand

742
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,120
the most relevant brand of the day.

743
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,190
- No matter how big the organization,

744
00:30:02,190 --> 00:30:05,580
great leadership still
comes down to one thing,

745
00:30:05,580 --> 00:30:07,620
never losing sight of the customer.

746
00:30:07,620 --> 00:30:10,230
I mean, do you measure your day in slides

747
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:12,510
or conversations with customers

748
00:30:12,510 --> 00:30:14,060
and the people that serve them?

749
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,790
- The moment of truth
was called CoolTouch.

750
00:30:17,790 --> 00:30:19,680
And it was a concept that suddenly,

751
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:24,660
very simply gave the plumber,
the architect, the designer

752
00:30:24,660 --> 00:30:27,663
a reason to recommend our
products to the consumer.

753
00:30:28,650 --> 00:30:31,740
- You know, you've gotta win
across the whole ecosystem.

754
00:30:31,740 --> 00:30:32,790
Guess what?

755
00:30:32,790 --> 00:30:35,670
Doesn't actually matter how
ideas leave your office.

756
00:30:35,670 --> 00:30:38,403
What matters is how they hit the customer.

757
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:40,530
- I've always tried to do that,

758
00:30:40,530 --> 00:30:44,160
create a very clear purpose
for our organizations.

759
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,340
And at the end, the consumer
is always in the middle,

760
00:30:47,340 --> 00:30:49,140
because what's business about?

761
00:30:49,140 --> 00:30:51,450
It's about selling more stuff
to more people more often

762
00:30:51,450 --> 00:30:53,340
at the end of the day.

763
00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:56,400
- To stay vertical, David
keeps returning to the mission,

764
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,420
to the manifesto, to the
relentless customer focus.

765
00:31:00,420 --> 00:31:02,040
It's connection with the frontline,

766
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,020
but it's also how you act every day.

767
00:31:04,020 --> 00:31:06,060
Are you humble? Are you normal?

768
00:31:06,060 --> 00:31:07,470
And do you create an environment

769
00:31:07,470 --> 00:31:10,110
where people are empowered
to tell the truth?

770
00:31:10,110 --> 00:31:12,060
You know, it's easy at the beginning.

771
00:31:12,060 --> 00:31:14,310
Every new customer is a huge victory.

772
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:17,010
Every sale is a reason to celebrate.

773
00:31:17,010 --> 00:31:18,780
But as our businesses scale,

774
00:31:18,780 --> 00:31:22,110
these events aggregate into numbers.

775
00:31:22,110 --> 00:31:24,240
The millions of conversations

776
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,240
that lead to millions of dollars in sales,

777
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,700
well, they happily live in spreadsheets

778
00:31:29,700 --> 00:31:32,250
and stop echoing in our hallways.

779
00:31:32,250 --> 00:31:35,340
You know, your success is the
result of you being relevant,

780
00:31:35,340 --> 00:31:38,100
of being edgy, of
mattering to the customer

781
00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:40,140
more than any other offer.

782
00:31:40,140 --> 00:31:44,310
But it's that very success
which creates complacency

783
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:47,010
and a slow drift towards irrelevancy.

784
00:31:47,010 --> 00:31:49,800
So how does a company keep its edge?

785
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,590
And how do you find the
energy to stay relevant

786
00:31:52,590 --> 00:31:55,590
year after year after year?

787
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:59,010
Well, in our next episode,
we're gonna talk to Pedro Arnt.

788
00:31:59,010 --> 00:32:03,210
He's CEO of dLocal and
former CFO of Mercado Libre.

789
00:32:03,210 --> 00:32:05,670
And he's gonna be talking
to us about what it means

790
00:32:05,670 --> 00:32:09,360
to stay relevant through
a period of hypergrowth.

791
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,400
So we'll see you in the next episode,

792
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,043
and until then, stay curious.

793
00:32:15,292 --> 00:32:17,875
(upbeat music)