Building Alongside a Founder — feat. Michelle Rose

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Hello, Michelle.
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Hi, Mark.
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This is fun.
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This is.
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I've been reflecting and looking forward to this for a couple weeks now.
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Yeah, so what is this?
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You wanna uh sort of share what we're gonna talk about and a little bit on who you are?
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Because I think uh, you know, this is a you know, hate to use the term special episode, but it kind of is.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Well, it's our 10 years is coming up at 90.
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Um, and I've been along for the really incredible ride since the very beginning.
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Um, so just kind of walking down memory lane, what got us here, the things we've overcome, the ways we've grown together, the way the business has changed.
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Um just looking forward to kind of you know talking through memories together.
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Going down memory lane.
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So, you know, we we we we say that um Christine was full-time employee number one, and um, and that's because she was full-time employee number one, but you were actually before Christine.
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Um, but you weren't full-time in the very beginning.
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So why don't we go back to the very beginning um when you and I first started to work together?
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That's now how many years?
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11.
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Well, yeah, yeah, just turned 11, I think.
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Um, yeah, and it's funny.
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I actually went back in my personal email to try to find the job description.
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Yeah, I couldn't find the job description, but I found my first email to you.
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And I I was I had secondhand embarrassment completely.
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I mean, it was so funny.
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Uh but the job description, you asked so many interesting questions.
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I don't know if you remember this, but you wanted to make sure that the person had made at least 50,000 a year.
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Wanted to make sure that the person had done, you know, certain things and that if you didn't reply confirming all of those things, you were out.
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And this was a Craigslist ad, um, which is also so funny.
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Um, but I hit all of the criteria and I responded.
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And uh anyway, long story short, I got hired.
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Um, but I do remember too the you asked me to do a Colby assessment, and I thought, like, this is so weird.
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What is this?
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But I really wanted the job, so I was willing to do it.
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Um, and now we live and die by Colby pretty much.
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But uh yeah, way back machine, um, 2015 feels like forever ago, but also I don't know.
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Uh it's weird like that.
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Like days are long, years, yeah, days are long, years are short kind of uh resonates, I would say.
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And and the original job description, was it?
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I'm trying to think back since you went and did a little bit of the the research.
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Um, did it say that you were um your job was to help me?
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Uh so back then I know your job was A to help me.
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Yeah.
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I didn't know if it was to help Chris.
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Was it me and it was my practice, my coaching practice, and and it was part-time, right?
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Um was it did it contemplate helping me with launching 90?
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I can't recall.
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I don't think so, right?
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No, I don't think that I don't even think I was privy to that for like a year.
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You guys were working on that and and thinking about that.
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And I remember Chris came into the picture and then the Atlanta crew, but I think it was about a year in that that those conversations came my way at least.
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Yeah.
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And and so and and I and do you remember, was it like because your daughter was how uh that daughter?
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She's uh she would have been like three.
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Yeah.
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And so it was really important, important that you had some flexibility.
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And um, and my I think my requ request was that maybe it's like once a week you could come up and make sure that things were organized in the office, but that but that was it.
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Yeah.
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And then I think it was, I want to say, what, somewhere between 15 and 25 hours a week.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yeah, right.
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And and then we were starting to work on well, probably so in 2015, we actually I was contemplating, I was working on the idea, but we hadn't actually hired anybody.
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I hadn't put any money into the company.
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Um, and I don't even believe at that moment in time Chris and I had agreed to sort of work together.
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Um, I think I was socializing the idea with him.
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And at that point in time, I think traction tools uh had started after Todd told me that they were gonna do something similar to the idea I shared with him.
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Um and uh and so that was going on, and I was going, okay, do I do this or do I not do this?
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And then had conversations with Chris, I think, in early 2016.
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Then, and then probably at some point, because Chris and I were talking about doing all this together, I think he had, as we've seen with a bunch of people we know, um had a just a rotating cast of assistance.
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Right.
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And so it was like, well, Michelle's great.
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And so you took him on and increased your hours, and then like happens with a lot of implementers slash ex-entrepreneurs who are running around all over the place.
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If I recall, I remember specifically actually sitting in a chair after a talk I gave, um, chatting with you about struggles with trying to figure out how to help, you know, Chris, because you know, he was one of those guys um at that point in time who runs around and does a bit of things and expects you to be clairvoyant.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And so we we we tried to help you um with that.
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Um, but eventually uh that didn't didn't work.
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And then um and then uh I decided we decided to start 90.
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And as you said, um, you know, really early on.
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Well, early on we had the um Chris's old partner, who's a technology CTO, um, and I and Chris tried to work together, but that didn't work because he wanted to do things his own way.
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Chris is technology guy, uh, specifically around UI and UX, and I thought it was just abominable.
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And uh we started clashing and the clashes never got better.
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Um, and uh so we broke off that relationship.
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Um fortunately, he never got any equity.
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Um and then uh we started to uh work on some things, and then um we got a call from a guy named Benj Miller, right?
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And and and and Benj was like, Hey guys, you know, um I know you're working on something.
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I've I've I'm working on something.
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Do you want to sort of bring our peanut butter and chocolate together?
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And so that was in 16.
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Was building their own internal thing, right?
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They built it just so they could run their own meetings or something, is my memory.
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Yeah, that's how it started, yeah.
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And then they're like, well, and then there's a there's a lot of stories, right, that goes that goes through that period of time.
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But we brought all came together and then um uh and then and then we call it the Atlanta team.
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So we had two kids that I didn't even know were in college who are engineers.
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Um guys, right?
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Sven and and eBay were still still friends, uh and fortunate to have um made them some decent money uh uh with their shares.
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Um but that was, you know, that all started in the in the in the winter of uh I should say the fall of 2016.
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When did you become full-time?
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Do you remember?
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No, actually.
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I think I went a long time where we were like, you good, I'm good, can we keep this going?
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Do we need to hire someone else?
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I mean, for a long time.
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Yeah.
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So I honestly don't remember.
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And so you were my assistant and helping me slash us with 90.
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Um, you know, Christine comes along, uh, signs up at the end of 16, um, but doesn't actually start until January of 17.
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Um and then first revenue is uh is basically you know March, April.
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Um, and it was also uh the the first EOS conference, which is kind of wild, right?
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So we show up there, um now a competitor, second person providing you know software um to the EOS community.
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Uh and uh and and that was really the very, very beginning.
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And I think were you at the the you were at the were you not at the first EOS conference?
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No, I think it was you, Chris, Benj, and Christine in basement in Atlanta is the description we keep getting.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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That was that was it.
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And then and then when you first came along into the company, what was your first role?
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I don't know.
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I remember changing our titles on business cards depending on where we were going and what events we were hosting, because we all wore so many hats for so long.
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Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't uh dishonest.
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It was just this is the focus, this is the the focus I have at this event is to put on this hat, you know.
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But gosh, I honestly don't know.
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For a while, I was like integrator to Chris's visionary in partnerships or something like that.
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Um, it might have been implementer success at some point.
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Um, but early days, I don't know because a lot of a lot of what we were doing is I I was playing CS to a degree.
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Like Christine and I were in Intercom.
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If you chatted, you got the two of us.
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We were doing demos for clients.
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I remember topping out at like 40 in one week.
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We were like, How did we breathe?
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I don't know.
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And I remember even earlier than that, we tried to onboard all of your clients and we had hour-long demos.
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We did a 30-minute demo, and then we're like, all right, so now you're gonna put your data in.
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And they were all like, no, this is like too much.
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So we've come a long way in in how we deliver uh the product to people.
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But um, yeah, it was, I feel like it was just wherever I needed to be, whatever the job was, is and I I think I know you've always said that I'm like a yes man and like I care deeply about you know making other people feel good.
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And I feel like as much as that's maybe like my Achilles heel, it was almost like a required skill at the time.
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Like to just make it work no matter what, get your hands dirty, do the small things, do the big things.
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Like, I don't know if it would have worked if I hadn't kind of naturally come with that.
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I think I I like to think I'm better at that now, but um, but I do think as I reflect back on on those early days, that was something that maybe served me well and and the company well at the time.
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Oh, 100%.
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Yeah.
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I mean, and it was you and Christine, and then were you around?
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I think you were, and I don't know if you were full-time yet, but but when you know, then we brought on Spencer and Cole, right, to help with it within it with it with intercom, right?
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Chat support.
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Yeah.
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Um and that's well, now we're in 2018, I believe, right?
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So we had something Beth said before you move on from there.
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She mentioned that um when we saw her at the farm or somewhere for a gathering, she said that uh Spencer is either gonna be the best thing that ever happened to you or he's not gonna work at all.
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And look at how far he's come.
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Like he has dug in and just been uh he's grown so much, he's doing so many incredible things.
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Um, he's an amazing asset to the business.
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But it was funny, she was like, it's either it's like polarizing, you know.
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And we got lucky.
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So just for every like Beth's my my wife of 37 years, and then Cole and Spencer, Cole's my son, and then um Spencer was his buddy in high school, and they started a uh a charity together, um, because uh one of the things that um I incentivized Cole with uh uh early in high school was that I would pay for three-quarters or two-thirds of his car if he had straight A's, if he was if he did something meaningful in the world of giving back, if he uh committed himself uh to doing well in a sport, and he continued to to um to work on um on his uh um musical skills.
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He played guitar, plays guitar very well.
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And so the so those two guys, right, that started the string bake project and and uh a long story there, but we won't get which we won't get into.
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But uh yeah, they're uh old friends and uh and then and then Spencer is uh you know, Spencer Spencer.
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We love Spencer, but you know, they're now right, um eight, eight years, nine years.
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I mean, they're one year less basically with the comp and the company's been around because they came in as interns during college.
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They're freshmen between freshman and sophomore years.
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And uh anyway, those are the characters that we've just talked about.
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So that's so we're in 2018.
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When you think about the um milestones, since you said you did a little bit of going back in memory lane, uh you know the early years.
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What are some of the memories that are most um sort of vivid for you?
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There's one that stands out to me as like this was the moment that I remember feeling like, wow, this is really happening, and like uh I believe in what we're doing.
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But then to like sort of look around and be like, wow, other people do, like something's real happening here.
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And it was back when we were meeting at the farm for quarterly planning, yeah, we had a lot of fractional leaders for a long time because we just the business didn't warrant full time at the at the time.
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Um, but as a result, we had a lot of sort of revolving roles.
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Like we hadn't quite landed on the right personality and experience set for certain positions.
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And we had some turnover.
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And for a time, it felt like every time we met, the team was slightly different.
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Yeah.
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Every quarterly, it was like something was a little bit different than the last time.
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And I remember meeting for an annual planning session, and it was the same team again.
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And then it was the same team again.
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And I just felt like, wow, you know, this this feels real.
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It felt like a shift, like people were coming back.
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We had the right team in place, they believed in what we were doing.
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Um, and similarly, like when Chris joined, you know, we had been looking for sort of an integrator.
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I don't remember exactly.
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We had a couple people who came in and were supporting, maybe not an integrator exactly, but I remember when Chris stuck around and showed up at the EOS conference virtually during COVID and hung out the whole time.
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I was like, wow, like this guy really believes in us.
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And so it was those types of moments where I felt like, wow, you know, these people see what we see.
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And it just felt, it felt like a shift.
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It felt like, I don't know, and and that familiarity that grows in the team and the culture starting to develop.
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It just felt like things were were changing.
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Yeah, it's interesting when I look back, and you know, I say we're, you know, we're learning hospital and we're exactly where we're supposed to be learning lessons we need to learn.
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Um you know, I uh the the the observation that I've developed over the last year is that number one, this is so much harder and um more complicated than you know the prior businesses that I ran and built, uh, because they were you know clearly established industries that had um very merit um um meritocrit there they were the the cultures were very um meritocracy like so it's basically up or out.
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Um we are hiring the types of people that we hired was super, super straightforward, right?
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We were hiring the top uh top tier talent from the Big Ten who tended to have played athlete uh sports in in in in at least high school, if not college.
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We had a we we had this um sort of this this recipe for who you know for that and it was relative, it was easy uh in hindsight, right?
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It was just really easy in hindsight.
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Whereas for us, very different game, right?
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Um and I I look back at the last you know you know going on 10 years, and as you said, we've we've had a lot of we had a lot of change, and we've actually had a lot of change because getting the right ingredients for who we were at each of these moments was hard, right?
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Um I think that you know if you look at how many heads of marketing we had over the years, I think, you know, and and the pro and the problem was is because in some regards, right, we started intelligently.
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Uh some people thought we were crazy, by the way.
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And then later on, actually, Insight, you know, our Series A investor um has said to me that, you know, we thought you guys were crazy the way you built a business on fractional leadership, right?
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And and outsourced engineering.
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We just thought it was just really weird.
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Um and uh and and and and but it was cost effective, right?
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Because I was funding the whole thing myself.
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Um but the but there was challenges associated with all that, right?
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Because we would end up getting people who were, you know, sort of you know, bigger picture, number one, number two, they worked in larger organizations, they were now gone to fractional for whatever reason for life choices, obviously, right?
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And um, and those original fractional leaders were actually most of them have never really been in a startup and dealt with, you know, all the things that you deal with in a startup, right?
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Uh the ambiguity, things changing all the time, you know, all of the challenges associated with navigating how to have a healthy relationship with the US worldwide.
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Um so it was, right?
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There was a lot of chaos.
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And I think for you know, lots of people that were highly experienced, but with later stage companies and bigger companies, they they didn't A know how to deal with it, um, other than to take the playbook that had worked for them in their old company and try to jam it down our throats, right?
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And and and that didn't work at all.
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Is there so that's and I and I would call that 2017 to 2020 ish.
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Is there one story from that period that sticks out in your head?
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Talking
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:18.720
About leaders and I don't know if there's a story, but I I do look back on those those years very fondly and campfires and um you know having a long session day together and then being able to sit around the fire and and just kind of decompress.
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:27.839
Um I do feel like those days there were a lot more aha's and and like big ideas and things that you know we could go and do.
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:31.839
Um because we were just newer and and more nimble.
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:33.119
Oh, I guess there is.
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:43.119
Uh Christine and I, um, it's funny, we always got paired up in a room as if we like knew each other forever and that would like make sense.
00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:51.599
And I think we just bonded quickly because it was like, you guys are in this room together, and uh okay, here we go, you know.
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:54.240
Um, and that happened consistently.
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:59.680
And uh I I just I'm so grateful for her along this journey.
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:04.240
Um, and and having her companionship and friendship has has meant the world to me.
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:10.319
But yeah, I I think just those fire pits, the the barbecue cook-offs uh with Randy.
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:18.079
Um maybe I'm getting a little further down the timeline, but um it just it was really fun.
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:21.920
It was it's still fun, but it was just simpler for sure.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:22.319
Yeah.
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:28.319
Um, you know, the platform uh was it didn't need to do as much as it does need to do today.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:37.440
You know, we have far more complex clients now, and our clients need more from us and the world of AI and all of our competitors, like just none of that existed.
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:39.519
It was a completely different world.
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:42.880
So um, yeah, just very fond memories.
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:59.519
Yeah, the uh yeah, the uh for those who don't know, we owned a farm um outside of Atlanta and uh and what for the first um I want to say we we probably sold that farm three years ago, plus or minus.
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:50.000
And so for the first five years, um uh all of our quarterly and and and and I took the I I took the barn and I had uh uh two guys, Ricky and I'm trying to remember the other guy's name, but they came in and they took the whole upstairs of the barn, which was just there was no upstairs, and they turned it into a beautiful um session room for us, and then we had a huge fire pit uh out of this like 600-pound cast iron um um whatever you call it, fire pit behind the farm, and every we'd always, you know, end up there at after the, you know, after dinner, and then a lot of times we had dinner and we'd do cook-offs and things like that.
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:54.480
And it was just, yeah, I I I you know love those moments, right?
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:54.880
Yeah.
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:56.319
It was, you know, it was it was great.
00:24:56.559 --> 00:25:08.559
You know, remember in the beginning, like Chris and Jim would drive down from Cleveland, and then Meg and Chris and Jim would drive down from Cleveland, and uh it was very cost effective.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:21.839
Um, and then uh everybody stayed at the farm, and we even had a RV uh for those who had uh allergies uh because we had a cat and a dog in them, uh cats actually, right?
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:23.519
And in the main house.
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:26.319
It was it was really cool.
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:27.680
It was really fun.
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:28.079
Yeah.
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.400
We had this dream of having 90x, remember that?
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:33.680
90 Palooza.
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:35.359
Of 90 Palooza, right?
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:36.640
We had this because it was a big farm.
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:43.279
It was 80 acres, and we had a big field that was gonna be perfect for it, and we were gonna have a band, we were gonna have all of our clients there.
00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:46.880
And um that never happened, unfortunately.
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:49.680
But but it was it was a beautiful dream.
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:54.480
It was like like fancy yurts all over, you know, a 90-acre farm.
00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:56.160
I mean that.
00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:57.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:07.279
And then and then and then so to me, the next um, you know, the the the next big moments COVID.
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:09.200
Is that where your goes to?
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:10.160
Mm-hmm.
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:12.160
Game changer.
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:13.039
Yeah.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:13.920
Yeah.
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:20.000
And it was, you know, because you know, the platform was pretty good at helping people stay connected.
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:31.759
Um and then with Zoom uh and the platform, and then we got permission to create uh uh a meetings tool that helped people run their quarterlies and their annuals virtually.
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:39.359
And uh and the next thing you know, we're growing at um you know, we're growing at, I don't know, well over 100%.
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:42.640
And we had the coolest companies and organizations.
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:46.480
I mean, the city of New Orleans, you know, ran on 90 during COVID.
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:51.200
The Bahama Ministry of Tourism ran on 90 during COVID.
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:59.680
There were a bunch of companies, and then we, you know, Christine and I just, you know, did a podcast, uh, recorded one, we've got to come out soon.
00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:01.599
And we were talking about this.
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:05.119
And remember when, you know, you know, no one knew.
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:09.680
And so, you know, if anybody had struggles, we said, hey, you don't have to pay us.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:10.880
We carried everything.
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:29.440
Um, and then like, you know, I don't remember how many clients we had back then, um probably a thousand-ish, but um like five people, you know, took us up on it and and didn't pay us back, but it was it was nothing.
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:37.839
Um but it was it was it it was super helpful for a lot of companies.
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:43.119
A lot of companies credit 90 for staying in business during COVID.
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:50.799
I had an awesome conversation with a marketing firm, and they literally would not have made it if they didn't have 90.
00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:57.359
They had already implemented 90 a little bit, but not to the extent that they did during COVID to keep the business running remotely.
00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:01.359
And I'm sure there's dozens more that have a similar story.
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:02.319
Yeah.
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:06.240
And and and at that point in time, are you full time time yet?
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:07.039
Or do you remember?
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:07.920
Definitely.
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:08.240
Yeah.
00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:09.119
Definitely then.
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:09.839
Yeah, right.
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:21.200
And so, and then were you juggling both uh our relationship with the implementers as well as clients, or were you mostly implementers like running, you know, overseas?
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:24.319
I think mostly implementer at that point.
00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:32.720
Um yeah, I think probably a hundred percent almost, and a little bit of intercom here and there, a little chat support.
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:34.559
Yeah.
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:35.440
Yeah.
00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:36.079
Yeah.
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:37.039
Yeah.
00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:46.000
And and so is are there any others so so that to 2021, 22-ish period, right?
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:57.680
Um where what are is there are there any stories from that period that you know, as you did your memory lane that stick out?
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:05.599
I think just COVID in general helped me build better relationships with our implementers.
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:14.559
Because it it was so pivotal in the sense that like when you talk to people, you yes, we care how you're doing, but it was like different then.
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:21.759
You really wanted to make sure everyone was okay and and like health and everything and their business.
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:23.440
And it just was different.
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:26.880
Like the gravity of the situation was was different.
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:31.839
And I think during that time, checking in with people just it felt different.
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:38.880
You, you really became connected and you you cared deeply and um you got to know more of their story.
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:43.680
And it started, it sort of softened professionalism in general.
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:49.039
Like kids would walk by in the background where you'd normally freak out or your doorbell rings.
00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:54.400
And you, you know, I think it just allowed us to kind of all become a little bit more human.
00:29:54.559 --> 00:30:00.640
And I think it did a lot of really good things for my relationships with the implementer community.
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:05.039
I just remember that being, I think my my emails softened.
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:08.799
I think everything started to feel a little bit more human.
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:09.519
I don't know.
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:21.279
I I just to me that was such a silver lining of COVID, just everybody being a little bit more um letting their guard down and and being more comfortable with one another.
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:23.759
Uh, and I've I've continued that.
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:30.319
Of course, I didn't go back the other way, but I think it it really shaped how I approach relationships and partnerships differently.
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:41.440
One of the things we teach, you know, is that you have to um to, you know, to do really well, you need to figure out what it is you're selling, right?
00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:44.319
And I think that uh and who you're selling to.
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:46.799
So obviously the ICP stuff, right?
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:52.160
And then more generally speaking, you know, what's what's the positioning that you're taking?
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:54.160
What's your market and what's your positioning?
00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:56.480
Who are you selling to, and what are you selling, right?
00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:02.799
I'd love to hear your perspective on this, but I think you, Christine, and I, and Chris too, right?
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:13.759
Once he came on board, which is 2019, there's never been a question with regard to what's really important.
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:21.039
And what was really important was always developing and maintaining high trust relationships with all of our ideal stakeholders.
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:22.720
That was a thing from day one.
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:30.160
And part of that was providing exceptional service, right?
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:31.920
What or support.
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:33.920
I don't know which words better, right?
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:43.920
But from the very beginning, we were, you know, we were always about providing exceptional service versus we're trying to be the cheapest, right?
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:44.880
Number one.
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:55.680
Um, number two, yeah, we had, you know, we wanted, we wanted to have good software, but I think, you know, my own perspective was software's always gonna have issues.
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:58.400
So, you know, we'll do it best we can with software.
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:05.039
But fundamentally, the thing we can control is is is how we support people.
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:14.880
And I remember, you probably remember 2000, I remember, you know, whether it was 2017 or 2018, I was like, we got to get to 24-7, right?
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:15.920
In terms of support.
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:37.839
Um, so you know, to your point, um I th and I and I and my perspective once again is that I, you know, it was like almost you tell me, it was almost like even though we talked about it, there was never a question as to whether or not that was core to who we are.
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:38.880
Yeah.
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:40.640
I totally agree.
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:51.200
I think I think the sort of like yes and yes if sentiment has always been something that the four of us just deeply believe in.
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:55.519
We will always, it's it's yes, and then let's figure out why this happened.
00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:59.759
Yes, if you can schedule a call and let's, you know, always, always.
00:32:59.920 --> 00:33:04.799
And I think I think that's uh it's it's definitely core to who we are.
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:10.880
At some point it it kind of made its way into extra mile, maybe in our in our core values.
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:14.480
Um but I yeah, I think it's always been there.
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:37.039
Um and I think something that I learned really early on from Christine too was uh she was always very I I had experience, you know, in other companies or or other uh demos or anything where you're giving feedback and the person's kind of defensive and they're very um, no, this is the way it's supposed to be.
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:42.799
And Christine was always so just, yeah, tell me, I want your feedback.
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.319
I want to make it better, I want it to be exactly what you need it to be.
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:50.400
And just uh very open and never defensive.
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:58.240
And I remember thinking that was so unique to experiences I had had in, you know, demoing other platforms or whatever.
00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:02.240
Um, and so I think she brought in a lot of that.
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:05.440
Um, but yeah, I don't know that we ever talked about it.
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:18.400
It was just sort of understood that it was whatever it takes, go the extra mile, do the small things, um, jump in where you need to, was just who we were from the beginning.
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:19.360
Yeah.
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:20.239
Yeah.
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:25.599
And I think that, you know, back to the high trust stuff, right?
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:37.599
Because we because we didn't, you know, early on, because we were uh, you know, EOS was just sort of trying to figure out what the heck we were allowed to do or not allowed to do, remember, right?
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:48.880
We that we couldn't, we couldn't teach, we couldn't make changes to the platform without their permission, and uh we couldn't send any marketing materials out without them reading everything.
00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:50.159
You remember this, right?
00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:53.519
I I I fondly call this the restrictive era.
00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:59.199
Yeah, and and so so you know, my whole thing was, well, I gotta be able to write about something.
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:01.039
So I started writing about trust.
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:01.440
Yeah.
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:01.840
Right.
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:05.360
And and um and and putting out a whole series on trust.
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:18.159
And we're and then we started writing about you know, helping people with work from anywhere because you know, that wasn't in that wasn't that wasn't encroaching their IP and the and the and and and teaching.
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:31.920
And so trust, helping people figure out how to, you know, uh sort you know, do well in a work from anywhere world during COVID particularly, you know, those are like we were just like, what what can we talk about?
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:42.159
And so um and and and and and so we you know we we went there and I think that you wrote a paper on that, on how to like survive in a remote world.
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:46.239
And it was the first thing that went viral when viral wasn't a thing.
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:49.199
I mean, it do you remember performed extraordinarily well?
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:53.280
We were like, keep the ad spend going, like ratchet it up.
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:57.199
It was like it was performing at an unbelievable rate.
00:35:57.440 --> 00:35:58.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:04.079
Yeah, this is one of those you're you're you know, you you definitely feel like you're in the way back machine right now, right?
00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:06.480
I mean it seemed so long ago.
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:07.039
Yeah.
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:08.639
Long ago, right?
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:21.280
And so, you know, it it's it's interesting because you know, one of the things that I I you know I thought we should chat about is like our culture in you know over the years, right?
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:42.559
And um while we've never said, you know, like you know, when you look at our core values, there's not a you know, a culture of service, yeah, but a culture of service has been deeply a part of who we are, in my opinion.
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:48.800
And then, you know, it's interesting because I'm literally right now thinking about things I've never thought about, right?
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:57.440
But you know, when you think about the people who have succeeded here and the people who we've struggled with, right?
00:36:58.159 --> 00:37:14.960
Um I would dare say that it's those people that deeply care about our customers and their colleagues who've been great for us, and those who, whether it's passive aggressive, like they're not really working, because we've dealt with that in a work from anywhere world, right?
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:22.079
Um they're not caring, and there's been very few of those, right?
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:27.039
I can put them on one hand, I could probably get down to one or two fingers, right?
00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:32.239
Um, those those people just you know get rejected by the system.
00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:33.199
Yeah.
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:35.360
Yeah, for sure.
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:41.280
How how do you think the culture besides so that's been a consistent thing, right?
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:44.159
Um, I think since day one.
00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:51.360
What else do you think's been consistent and then where have we like struggled over the years?
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:58.800
Well, I think to your point of like who does well here, it's the people who just care deeply.
00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:05.519
And it's like it's not just solving the issue that's raised, it's solving the reason the issue ever came up.
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:06.320
Yeah.
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:14.639
It's going the extra steps to really help people, to truly help people and resolve their problems.
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:21.840
And I think, I think that's that's something that like differentiates people, I think, at 90.
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:33.360
And and like, sure, you answered their question, but if you really cared deeply, you would know that their question only came up because there's probably something else that's going on.
00:38:33.519 --> 00:38:35.599
And let's figure out how to solve that.
00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:43.840
And and maybe that's part of your your comment around service, like that is truly in service of our clients.
00:38:44.079 --> 00:39:05.199
And I think I I think that that's something you really instill in in the business and and all of us as leaders too, is like just doing the right thing, always, always doing the right thing, always taking the high road as tough as it might be sometimes, and like doing everything with integrity.
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:29.599
Um so I I don't I don't I think that's that's something that that that ability to kind of go go all the way to solving the root of of something is probably I wouldn't say it's like a friction point, but it's definitely where I think I don't know, uh some people succeed and some others, some don't.
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:30.320
I I don't know.
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:32.320
That that's something that just stands out to me.
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:54.880
Yeah, I think the uh when you when you stand back and look at because we have had um leadership turnover over the years, and I think that um it can be the the turnover issues fall into uh uh uh just a couple different reasons, right?
00:39:55.280 --> 00:40:03.760
Number one is that um there's been a stage fit issue, which we talked about a little bit, right?
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:30.719
With regard to the fractionals, when the fractionals came in and they wanted to do big company playbooks and and and you know, you end up having, and this is classic stage three stuff, you end up having, you know, your head of marketing wants to sort of do this kind of thing, and you know, someone else wants to do it this way, and someone else wants to do it this way, and yet everybody's working together, and it just all of a sudden the gears are grinding, right?
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:46.159
Um, and um and and and you know, in hindsight, I uh it tolerates a wrong term, but I let that I I you know those things should have been nipped in the bud um as soon as they started to materialize.
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:49.679
You know, there's one hire that I should have hired the first week, right?
00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:52.000
Because it was like, no, this is not who we are, right?
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:55.679
And then let's say that for like a year, and it's like no.
00:40:56.320 --> 00:41:00.239
And and and it was a grind the whole way, just a grind, always, right?
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:05.119
And and so there was there's a stage fit issue.
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:42.000
Um and um and then the next thing is that there's a lack of you know, we had inquisitiveness as a core value since day one, and there was a la and and and then there's just a lack of inquisitiveness, yeah, you know, um that you know, when I look at these people, um that that was just I hate to want to say intolerable, but it was just like how can you how you know, if you don't understand our customers, right?
00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:52.079
And if you don't understand our system, and if you don't understand how we help people, right, um I don't know how you can do your job, right?
00:41:52.480 --> 00:42:03.280
And so the so so there was a bunch of there was a bunch of that and over over years, right, where people would come in and they just kind of think that you know their job was just to do the job, right?
00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:03.760
Right.
00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:18.719
And and and and and the framing that I have today is the is is basically if you care deeply about either our customer or our company, right?
00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:21.599
Obviously the best is both, right?
00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:44.239
But if you if you if you're in if you care if if you if you're here actually to help and genuinely serve and and and help us win, right, then your job is to help us win and understand what winning looks like and to understand what we're serving and what we're providing so that you know you can help us be better and better at what we do and how we help.
00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:57.280
And um, there's a really good short video, I think it's like 10 or 15 minutes long by I I think the individual's name is Kaufman, but it's all about when you what's your job, right?
00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:04.480
And he asks a bunch of people what their jobs are, and you know, and and he asks, you know, how many are you confident you know your job is, right?
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:09.280
And all these people raise their hands, and then he goes and he says, I want you to write down what your job is.
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:11.199
And then he starts asking people.
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:14.559
And you know, they all say kind of what you expect them to say, right?
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:16.159
That's not your job.
00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:20.559
And they're looking at, and he goes, Your job is to help the company win.
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:22.320
Right.
00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:49.360
And and and if you don't understand what it means, write what it what it takes for your company to win, and obviously you have a position that is specifically exists to help the company win, but yeah, but it's not just your job is for you to win doing your job, because the reality is, and he then talks about uh sports metaphor, soccer, right?
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:51.119
What's the job of a striker?
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.599
And the average person would say to score goals.
00:43:53.679 --> 00:44:01.199
And he said, No, the job of a striker, just like every single person on that field, is to have Help the team win.
00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:02.719
That's the job, right?
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:06.639
And because it requires you to step outside of your role.
00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:10.159
It it requires you to do whatever needs to be done to win the game.
00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:11.760
And that that's great.
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:12.159
Yeah.
00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:16.320
And so and and his point is look, in the beginning of the game, right?
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:22.639
There's a there's a strategy, right, that any good coach has based upon the team that they're playing.
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:30.320
And so they may be more aggressive or less aggressive in terms of pushing the ball forward and controlling the ball and and trying to attack the goal.
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:37.599
But yes, the attacker's job, for the most part, in the beginning of the game is to figure out how to put the ball in the back of the net.
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:44.400
But you know, if the c if the team gets up two or three, two or three goals and you got four minutes left in the game, guess what?
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:47.119
The attacker's job is not to score.
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:50.239
The attacker's job is to protect the score, right?
00:44:50.480 --> 00:45:11.840
And so literally, you know, at any point in time, yes, people's roles, accountabilities, and responsibilities will be relatively well defined, but there are points where, and you need to be aware of the game that's being played and whether or not now your job is to fall back and make sure that the other team can't score.
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:20.639
And so what is consistent though, regardless of what position you're playing, is your job is to help the team win.
00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:32.320
And I think that a lot of people who've struggled with us over the years didn't fully appreciate that their job is to help us win.
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:34.079
And we're very clear, right?
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:38.719
We winning is, as you've we've talked about, providing exceptional service.
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:42.719
Winning is understanding what it is that we're not doing, like Christine.
00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:45.199
You complimented her for doing.
00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:50.239
You know, being open and saying, yeah, right, you know, we could have done that better, or no, we need to work on this.
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:55.199
Or, and remember, for years, you know, we always published our, we still do, kind of, right?
00:45:55.440 --> 00:46:01.440
But always said, hey, you know, we're just gonna be very transparent with regard to what we're working on and what's coming down the road.
00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:04.639
We're not worrying about competition, you know, copying us.
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:05.440
It is what it is.
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:12.800
We're here to serve you and to help you know that, yeah, we've heard you, and here's when we think we're gonna be able to get this feature out to you.
00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:29.840
And then, you know, we have systems in place to, you know, if someone said, Hey, I want this feature, you know, um uh, you know, an integration with, you know, ClickUp as an example, um, you know, as soon as we have it available, we're gonna reach out and say, hey, we we have it available now.
00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:32.159
Yeah, it's it's that flexibility.
00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:38.559
It's it's the ability to live in the gray and live in the ambiguity and forego process.
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:48.000
It's there as a default, but there's gonna be times where we got to step out and do the right thing and go above and beyond or break process because it's the right thing to do in that scenario.
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:56.000
And and I think I think that the analogy of of the soccer team and is a really good one and a good reminder for everyone.
00:46:56.320 --> 00:46:56.639
Yeah.
00:46:56.800 --> 00:47:06.960
And and and I think from the very beginning, you know, um just use your judgment in terms of what's right.
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:12.639
So, first of all, we provide exceptional service or support, whatever, which whichever word you want to use.
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:14.960
Do you have a preference on service versus support?
00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:16.320
It's interesting.
00:47:17.119 --> 00:47:18.320
Uh, I don't really.
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:20.880
Uh I like stewardship.
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:26.000
I don't know where that fits in, but like being a good steward, I I kind of like that one, but I don't know.
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:32.320
Well, I think being a good steward of the company is uh, you know, 100% of part of the same thing we're talking about right now.
00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:39.360
But you know, it's it's funny when we you know we think about serving our clients, are we providing exceptional service or exceptional support?
00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:53.760
Um but but we've always, you know, we've always done that and and and and and and and and and tried really, really hard, um, I think reasonably well, um, to never be bureaucratic.
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:56.960
And so like if if you're like this is the right thing to do, you just did it.
00:47:57.039 --> 00:47:59.519
If Christine's like this is the right thing, you just did it.
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:08.639
And and I think that that ethos or right has has been pretty consistent since day one.
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:10.880
Yeah, I agree.
00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:13.760
There's also just high trust, too, right?
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:18.000
Like we all trust each other to make the right judgment calls.
00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:23.599
And I think the the leadership here is is empowering in that way.
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:30.320
Like we are all aligned to our vision, who we are, um, you know, the outcomes, the goals, right?
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:39.599
And so we do trust each other to make the right decisions because we're all aligned to to what the right thing is and and what our our ultimate goal is.
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:47.440
Um and I think having that autonomy and feeling empowered to make decisions like that really impacts people in a really positive way.
00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:58.719
Do you think do you think the culture's changed a lot over the years, or do you think that it's actually well I I I was gonna be lead the witness, I'm not gonna do that.
00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:00.639
What what are your things what do you think?
00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:10.239
Um I think the people that so we had the summit last year.
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:10.880
Yeah.
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:25.679
And the that group of, I don't know, maybe about half the company that that stayed on the top of the mountain and was karaokeing for hours and just it felt like a wedding reception or something.
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:33.920
I mean, it was just jumping and dancing and and just unbelievable fun and and felt so connected to everyone.
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:34.400
Yeah.
00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:41.840
I think I think that I think that culture has always been here and like that is so special.
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:51.679
And to me, like you looked around that group and it felt like the people that deeply care and and are really plugged in and are passionate.
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:58.559
And and I think you also have people that this is a job, and you have people that this is more than that.
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:00.719
Like we feel like we're on a mission together.
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:05.119
And one of the things that people ask me is like, why have I stayed so long?
00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:06.960
It's like the job isn't done.
00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:09.679
The mission, there's so much more to do.
00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:16.239
And I think that that's maybe like a not a divide, but it it is different.
00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:19.039
People think about 90 differently.
00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:22.559
It's it is a mission that we're on together, or it's a job.
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:26.239
And I think um, I think it's just natural to have that.
00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:37.920
You know, it's not going to be the same for everyone, but I do feel like the culture that was always here is here with the people who are all in and deeply care.
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:42.400
And you know, there's tens, dozens of them that I could rattle off.
00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:44.480
I think you probably know too.
00:50:44.559 --> 00:50:45.199
But yeah.
00:50:45.519 --> 00:51:04.719
When I when I look back at at what we've you know, where we've been and where we are, I do, you know, as a founder, you know, I I I assume responsibility for all of our bad um and none of our good.
00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:09.679
And no, someone else is doing that stuff, right?
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:20.800
Um but I I I do think that, you know, I I I've said now for years, when I stopped interviewing folks, every single person, right?
00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:26.960
Um, and stopped basically enlisting them in the mission, right?
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:32.239
Is when things started to go a little funky.
00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:40.880
And and on top of that, it was when we started to go and get like, you know, beyond a hundred employees, right?
00:51:41.119 --> 00:52:04.480
Um and that combination of me no longer sort of getting people to really understand, like having an hour plus conversation with me about who we are, where we're going, why we do the things that we do, that that's when we got, I'd say the percentage of people who were here just because it was a job increased dramatically, right?
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:13.679
I hate to say it, but it that increased dramatically, relatively speaking, because I think up until then, you know, it we had, I mean, people used to say it was magic, right?
00:52:13.840 --> 00:52:17.199
Um, that, you know, that it was just magical, right?
00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:24.639
That that you we had such a, you know, uh beautiful organization where everybody deeply cared.
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:30.400
And then the first times we got together, and it was like 40 or 50 people.
00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:35.199
And I felt, I even said this to you, I think I felt like I knew them all already.
00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:42.000
Like I felt this weird, like coming together with old friends, but I had just met them for the first time.
00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:51.440
And I think it's because of that, like that shared passion and and that that I don't know, it was something that we all shared.
00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:54.000
I think it was maybe core value alignment, right?
00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:56.719
Or something, but it just felt so different then.
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:01.039
Yeah, it was I think it was mission alignment and core values alignment, right?
00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:14.079
And and and so when I reflect on it, right, I'm I'm you know, if I could do it all over again, right, I would not have stepped out um of being involved in every single interview, number one.
00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:26.719
Uh number two, I think that um that alignment around um mission and caring.
00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:31.679
Um, and then when I say, well, what should I have done?
00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:33.679
What could I have done better?
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:48.079
The one thing I've I've thought about a lot lately is, you know, um, and I it it's interesting what percentage of our employees actually at this point totally appreciate this, right?
00:53:48.320 --> 00:53:52.719
But you know, we always used to say that 90 was just a Trojan horse, right?
00:53:52.880 --> 00:54:04.400
That the big idea here was to help people build, you know, exceptional, you know, exceptionally productive, humane and resilient organizations, because ultimately I deeply believe and wrote a lot about this one, right?
00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:10.559
I deeply believe that, you know, work is a four-letter word that's fully underappreciated, that we all want to matter.
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:22.800
And we, you know, if you're gonna work, do work that you love doing it, doing it in service of something that you deeply believe in and and and doing it with people that you, you know, that you genuinely enjoy working with.
00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:42.880
And and I remember when we were trying to figure out some branding stuff, um, a lot of people poo-pooed my notion that, you know, building a company where people genuinely love going to work was like kind of a, you know, what it was kind of, you know, it naive, right?
00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:44.800
Or stupid.
00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:47.519
And and my perspective's never changed, right?
00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:47.760
Yeah.
00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:51.440
That's I I still deeply believe that's the right thing to do.
00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:59.199
And and that ultimately um, you know, we need to, you know, find people that genuinely are attracted to our mission.
00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:09.039
And I feel like what I probably haven't done a good job of is helping people understand why this mission is so important.
00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:23.679
Um early on, maybe it was because you're, you know, you're constantly hearing the Mark Abbott lecture series on this stuff, but you can think about it, you know, 95% of companies um fail within 10 years.
00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:29.599
And then 95% of those companies never make it past 10 million.
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:33.280
And for all practical purposes, right, you either grow or you die.
00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:44.079
And so, like only one out of a hundred businesses ever actually turns into something that's um, you know, reasonably well positioned to thrive.
00:55:44.239 --> 00:56:01.599
And to me, that means that those 99% of those businesses, right, um, if people are losing their jobs, community is losing an employer, the, you know, the founder, the business owner, whatever is losing all money the money that they invested in it.
00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:05.199
I mean, it's just to me, it's it's it's it's it's it's really sad.
00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:15.679
And, you know, what percentage of those businesses are being run by people that just frankly, you know, create environment work environments that are not particularly healthy.
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:31.840
So to me, right, we all, you know, I think everybody needs to work because it's really, it's it's it's it's it's like it's rewarding, not just financially, but think of all the relationships we have developed over the 10 years, just us doing this right.
00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:50.400
And I don't think I've like done a good job helping, you know, everybody in the company to fully appreciate that, you know, why we do the things we do and why the mission matters so much to me, and why I think it's actually a mission that I I I think everybody should get behind.
00:56:50.559 --> 00:57:07.679
And so um, so I I do think that you know, the percentage of people who genuinely care about the company and the work we're doing um declined uh to an unacceptable level.
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:10.400
I take ownership for that.
00:57:10.639 --> 00:57:24.480
But as you said, right, I do think that underlying culture, right, and the the joy of being a part of that culture exists for, you know, you know, I you know it's still there.
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:29.360
It's still there and and it's not in the minority.
00:57:29.519 --> 00:57:34.639
It's just it's a shame when it's less than 90% or 95% to me.
00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:35.840
Yeah.
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:38.800
It but it's definitely still there.
00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:51.599
And I think your point of um spending more time uh talking about the mission, like the way I often think about it is we're not just providing software to a company.
00:57:51.760 --> 00:58:00.000
We're actually empowering the CEO to step away and be on the soccer field on Saturday instead of being in the office.
00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:05.039
And now he's showing up as a better father, husband, whatever.
00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:15.760
I mean, it's the ribble effect of what we're doing is something that we should always come back to and think about how it's actually changing people's lives.
00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:20.960
And now that child is going to have a better life because dad is there, right?
00:58:21.039 --> 00:58:22.719
Like, you know, one silly example.
00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:24.400
But it's really true.
00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:28.320
You know, we hear these stories, and I think the revenue teams are lucky.
00:58:28.480 --> 00:58:38.400
We get frontline seats to some of these, you know, um, testimonials and and client interactions, but the whole organization doesn't.
00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:46.079
So I do think it could be worth like bringing that back and sharing more of that and sharing more of the mission and and our purpose with the team.
00:58:46.159 --> 00:58:48.239
I I think can only do good things.
00:58:48.480 --> 00:58:48.880
Yeah.
00:58:49.039 --> 00:58:49.679
Yeah.
00:58:50.239 --> 00:58:55.199
The uh last summit you which you brought up, right?
00:58:55.360 --> 00:58:59.519
Which was which and and uh you know it was it was so cool.
00:58:59.599 --> 00:59:02.480
And I'm I'm gonna, you know, we're gonna do it again.
00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:07.280
But you know, we went out and speci I went out and specifically found a band that would let us play with it.
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:09.920
Um and so they said they would do that?
00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:10.559
Huh?
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:12.719
They said they would let us play with them?
00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:15.119
Yeah, that was part of my uh recruiting.
00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:15.599
Yeah.
00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:16.960
I didn't realize that.
00:59:17.039 --> 00:59:19.840
I thought we just like went rogue and took over the set.
00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:22.719
No, no, no.
00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:36.639
I I specifically, you know, went found somebody and said, hey, we got a bunch of musicians and in the company, and it wouldn't be cool if, you know, if you know, one or two joined you guys at various points in the evening.
00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:39.039
And so we took over everything.
00:59:39.360 --> 00:59:48.000
I mean, you know, I mean, it what like a third of the time one of our people was on the drums, a third of our time the time one of our people was playing lead.
00:59:48.159 --> 00:59:52.719
Uh, you know, I don't know, it feels like a third of the time one of us was singing.
00:59:52.880 --> 00:59:58.559
Um but uh but yeah, that was that was so cool, right?
00:59:58.719 --> 01:00:05.360
Um to be to be to to to be together and and and rocking and rolling like that.
01:00:05.519 --> 01:00:05.840
Yeah.
01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:17.039
Um but at that summit, um, you also got your tenure um um uh what what would you what would you would you call it?
01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:18.159
I think.
01:00:18.559 --> 01:00:20.400
Yearbook, something like that, yeah.
01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:39.440
Yeah, which our team specifically um uh you know Dylan and and Julie, and I'm trying to remember who else was involved in well, a lot of people were involved because it it a lot of pictures that came from the past put it together for you, and um, and uh so we got to hand that to you.
01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:45.280
And then one of the comments you said was nothing has been the same for more than six months.
01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:50.719
Yeah, um, that was so special, and I absolutely did not see it coming.
01:00:50.800 --> 01:00:54.320
It was a total surprise and just so grateful.
01:00:54.559 --> 01:01:00.000
Um yeah, I think what I actually said was like we're a different company every six months.
01:01:00.159 --> 01:01:04.320
And so that's why it doesn't feel like it could possibly be 10 years.
01:01:04.480 --> 01:01:09.599
And I kind of stand behind that because the vision has always been the same.
01:01:09.679 --> 01:01:16.719
Like we're always moving toward the North Star, but the strategy naturally changes.
01:01:16.880 --> 01:01:28.320
Like we're a growth-oriented company, there's new competitors, the market's changing, the team structure's changing, our priorities are shifting, right?
01:01:28.400 --> 01:01:38.159
So it's like while while the North Star is known and we know where we're going, we're going to like wind and weave our way there by design.
01:01:38.559 --> 01:01:46.880
And so I think something that's really exciting about working at 90 is that we are willing to admit that what got us here won't get us there.
01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:50.159
And we have to innovate and we have to shift.
01:01:50.239 --> 01:01:55.199
And the market is now, you know, impacting us in this way, and we have to find a solution.
01:01:55.360 --> 01:02:00.000
And and that just naturally brings different priorities, different work.
01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:08.159
Um and so yeah, I mean, I I still think that, you know, maybe it's not every six months, but sometimes it goes that way.
01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:10.559
Uh, but I it was really in reflection.
01:02:10.639 --> 01:02:14.320
Um, somebody had said, wow, you've had the same job for 10 years.
01:02:14.559 --> 01:02:16.960
And I was like, no, I haven't.
01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:19.599
It hasn't hardly been the same at all.
01:02:20.559 --> 01:02:21.199
Right.
01:02:21.519 --> 01:02:25.119
Um, but that's that's like such a beautiful part of this journey.
01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:32.559
Is it's there's always room to be creative and have ideas and try things and test and iterate.
01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:37.360
And TJ's going on this whole culture of experimentation uh journey.
01:02:37.519 --> 01:02:41.199
And it's it's just core to who we are, and it always has been.
01:02:41.280 --> 01:02:46.239
And so that's why I think it's it's never really the same place twice, but in a really good way.
01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:55.119
Well, I know you you haven't had um a bunch of different experiences that are like this, right?
01:02:55.280 --> 01:03:04.559
Uh so a startup company, um one that's uh sort of you know been founder-led the whole time.
01:03:05.119 --> 01:03:34.159
Um but given everything you know, what is it, you know, if you had a friend who was thinking about doing something, joining a company early on, um, and uh with a you know, where there was a let's just say there, they they they believe there's probably a a relatively strong founder meaning vision, this is what I want to do kind of a thing.
01:03:34.480 --> 01:03:51.199
Well, you know, what would you give knowing everything that you know right now, what would you what would you what would you share with that person sort of these are the you know, this is what it could be like, but this is what this is what the journey, you know, what would you share?
01:03:51.440 --> 01:03:52.880
What advice to give?
01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:53.360
Yeah.
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:55.280
I would tell them not to hesitate.
01:03:55.599 --> 01:04:02.960
I would tell them that it will be the most work, but the most rewarding work.
01:04:03.519 --> 01:04:11.519
It will be an opportunity to experience many facts of the business.
01:04:12.079 --> 01:04:16.880
Um, it will challenge you, but it will be absolutely worthwhile.
01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:20.960
I would remind them that it's not your business.
01:04:21.199 --> 01:04:26.159
I think that's something that like you get caught up in like caring so much.
01:04:26.320 --> 01:04:28.880
You would like kill yourself to make things happen.
01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:35.519
And it's like, okay, hang on, like it's not the end of the world if this doesn't happen today, or there's someone else who can do this.
01:04:35.679 --> 01:04:41.599
And and so remember that it's that there are other people that you don't have to do everything.
01:04:41.760 --> 01:04:53.599
Um, but sometimes you have to try everything and put yourself into situations that um really, you know, stretch you and challenge you.
01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:58.239
Um, but I would say that it's the most rewarding work.
01:04:58.719 --> 01:05:04.159
And for me, I I found this job through sort of necessity.
01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:10.800
And it has been the greatest silver lining of a really dark time in my life.
01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:16.480
And so for me, it's like I would tell anybody to just jump all in, go for it.
01:05:16.719 --> 01:05:21.360
It'll be a wild ride and it'll be worth it the whole way.
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:22.480
Yeah.
01:05:23.599 --> 01:05:35.599
Well, I just want to thank you for it, it it feels like way more than 10 years in a in a super, you know, great way.
01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:48.960
Um, and you know, I I think that you know you've helped define part of the soul of who we are.
01:05:49.360 --> 01:06:15.360
Um, and uh, you know, um there's I mean, literally, you know, and you know, I use the word generally speaking when I say uh, you know, uh talk about love, but I think generally speaking, you know, you have developed amazing relationships with hundreds of people over the last um you know, 10 years.
01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:30.480
Um, and generally speaking, right, there are hundreds of people who who love you for being you and for supporting not just internally, but you know, hundreds and hundreds of of coaches and and companies.
01:06:30.800 --> 01:06:35.039
And uh, you know, so we're extraordinarily blessed to have you.
01:06:35.199 --> 01:06:38.000
And I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart.
01:06:38.239 --> 01:06:39.119
Thank you.
01:06:39.440 --> 01:06:40.480
Yeah, thank you.
01:06:40.639 --> 01:06:43.440
I mean, it's been an incredible 10 years.
01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:49.760
It's it's like it feels like so long ago, but also to say 10 years is like there's no way.
01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:53.199
Um, but I'm just like I said, the work's not done.
01:06:53.519 --> 01:06:55.599
There's there's so much to do.
01:06:55.679 --> 01:06:56.880
So I look forward to it.
01:06:57.280 --> 01:06:57.519
Yep.
01:06:58.239 --> 01:07:01.440
See another we'll do another one of these in 20 in 10 years, right?
01:07:02.159 --> 01:07:03.280
Yeah, let's do it.
01:07:03.599 --> 01:07:04.000
All right.
01:07:04.559 --> 01:07:04.880
Thank you.
01:07:06.400 --> 01:07:06.880
All right.