0:08 Mhm. Yeah, yeah. Hello and welcome to Founded and grounded the podcast aimed at the start up community for anyone seeking inspiration, advice and wisdom from the entrepreneurial community as they set out on their business journey. You've come to the right place. I'm Andrew Parsonage as ever with me this morning in the founding grounded studio. No expenses spared is business. Start up, guru. Mr Ali Coloured. Good morning, Ali. Good morning. And it's a lovely Monday morning when we're recording this indeed. Good start to the week. It's a great start with the coffee is on, it's made, But I think I've made a particularly strong brew this morning. Yeah, I think I'm buzzing a bit. All these All these nodding vigorously there we have the studio cat. She enjoyed it so much last time. And we recorded edition seven that she's every joined us in the kitchen today. So she's snoozing quietly somewhere Eight episodes into the series. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Okay, Ali. So every podcast episode we have an abiding theme or talking point. And this week it is It's really around your vision, purpose and values. And who have we been speaking to this week. So I caught up with Daryl Irwin, who's the founder of Creation, which is a branding agency based at forward Green Business Park in South Bristol. But as part of his business has actually created a sub brand called Genesis, which is probably the main focus of today's podcast. Okay, so last time around, if you might recall, we spoke to Orca, who are another strategic branding and design agency. So this week it's similar sort of area. But all the whole different bunch of issues will be covering off this week, so we'll be hearing from Darryl very shortly. Also will have news of our forthcoming podcast panel events here in Bristol and Ali. We'll be having plenty of advice and hints and tips as we go through the show. So let's crack on mhm. Okay, so let's get going with the first part of this podcast interview. We're talking to Darryl Irwin from creation, and over the course of podcast we often see things, themes, ideas, trends that come back again and again. But here, this is an interesting one. So, yes, we're talking again this week about a branding agency where designed branding design agency, but one where the owner and the entrepreneur in question this week had little bit of divine inspiration. Yeah, it's not a traditional startup story. So really interesting background and origin. Yeah, So creation is a business began in a charity fully enough, and we started the business to help bring in more charitable funds into the charity to do charity work around Bristol. The good news was that it grew, and after a period of nine years, being even within the charity, we were starting to earn too much money to stay within it. So in 2016, we came out as their own limited company and began the journey again. Essentially, it's like a start up with nine years trading history in the process of building that team and building the offering that we had. We then started to look at research and development type projects. You know where the industry is going, and that's where the Genesis idea come from, which was birth to help start ups be able to build brands and affordable price. Essentially, the creative industry has always paid for time and talent, and that's what we charge as a business as as creation. The situation was that for a start up, that's quite expensive, you know? And so so how do you get those costs down? So we looked at if we could answer a series of questions and use a mechanism like decision trees, so if they say is something modern or something traditional based on their answer, throw up different things like different fonts, different colours, that kind of stuff that would reduce the amount of time it would take. So we literally went about building it from scratch, building that journey, and at the end of the day, we've managed to achieve it. So can you tell me a bit more about your charitable beginnings? Yeah. So, back in 2000 and one, I was gonna run a marketing agency in London and we had Virgin holidays. Della Ratta, teachers. I mean, we had some brilliant NTL when they first came to the UK brilliant clients and always going to run a marketing agency. There I was in marked as one of four that we're going to run it 25% each and a week before signing papers. Girlfriend that have been going out with just said. Look, I'm not going to be happy in life. Don't pursue God, you know. And I was like, What's that about? Just that question they're going to meet, Start to think, is what I'm doing, going to leave the right kind of legacy. And I basically turned the opportunity down because it didn't fit. Basically, I was ending people's lives. We had, like Imperial Tobacco is one of the clients. So you're ending. People's lives are often celebrated people's lives, and it made me realise that kind of compromise on so many values. I was brought up in a Christian home, then got out in a career, did my own thing. I never revisited the whole God thing. And it was only in that conversation I thought, Hang on a minute. It might be a bit more to life than just me anyway. Long story short. Nine months later, me and that girl got married and I went freelance, so I was freelancing loads in the financial industry, some people would joke, you've gone from tobacco to finance for anyway. But the reality is, it really helped me and gave me the flexibility to get involved in mission. So I've done a lot of mission trips, went to Romania handing out aid, and it's while I was handing out aid in Romania. The penny dropped that I could use my skills, talents and abilities to impact people rather than just yeah, isn't that a great poster? So when we got back, we started to make plans, have taken a volunteer department that we're doing a lot of comments for the charity and we literally train the volunteers to be like an agency. And once we got into that position, we then started doing outside work which bring in revenue. So then they could pass that revenue in to make the department self sustaining and employ people, but also give back. So this is really different way of operating from the world that had come from. We grew that as a team got more and more skilled, we got more and more in demand and it became to the point where the charity itself was growing and we were looking at it saying, Although this is a revenue making animal, the charity is the charity and we'll start to make too much funds to justify it being there as part of the charity. So decisions were made. Is it gonna stay? We're going to shut it down and shut it down. I firmly believe that's what we needed to do. Carry on doing it. We're making an impact and we were backed. We were helped to make the transition out. We still remain in relationship with them today, but it was It was needed for us to go where we needed to go as well. That was my journey. That, whereas before, is using the skills and abilities to enrich a lifestyle. And now I'm using those skills and abilities to enrich people's purpose. Everybody wants to do something and leave an impact. The vehicle that we have that is brand. We can help them do that. So whether you need to be spoke brand or if you need to get up and running, you can. But those finances that come in are all to make us super rich is how can we invest? How can we help more and more people? Okay, so I know we're just eight episodes in, but often we see recurring themes and trends come around again again from the various organisations and people. We talked to. But this is a quite interesting one, actually, because if you think about the origin story to Darrell's business and Dell's enterprise, he basically turned down what many people would be in the opportunity. The business opportunity of a lifetime. A real career could have been a very defining career moment. And it wasn't away, wasn't it? Yeah, he basically decided not to go down the route of this partnership with four equal partners. He was about to sign on the dotted line, actually, and he just had a moment of reflection, and he basically realised, did this align with his purpose, his vision, what he really wanted to do, and ultimately it didn't. So he took a different direction. People started businesses for various reasons, but essentially at some point, yes, you want to make money to be able to live, you have a good life, et cetera, et cetera, And it sounds like Darrell reached a bit of a watershed moments where money wasn't the be all and end. All know, I think charity and making an impact was very close to his heart. So he saw this the best way to fulfil his future ambitions. reminds me of the episode with Clayton, where he was moved by his own experiences, and he felt he wanted to do something positive and give something back. So yes, he's he's running an enterprise and there's a commercial side to it. But also he feels like it was for the betterment of the community, for society. Yeah, there's definitely a strong social purpose and underlying motivations. It made me smile, actually later when he talked about the dilemma of making too much money once they finally started, started going down the different route he chose. Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting background. I speak to lots of founders about how they started their business and actually starting as a charity. I haven't actually come across that one before, so you know, doing really well as a charity having an impact. But essentially, they were making too much money to remain a charity, so they obviously branched off into the creation. Yeah, sure. It's a dilemma lots of charities would love to have in terms of why we got too much money coming through the doors here. I just wanted to focus on the business itself now, just to explain it, in case you haven't picked up through listening to that, is that when we set it found in the grounded a few additions in we opted for the podcast branding design that you see when you go into both sprout whichever platform you use. It's quite a clever thing he's created here and the fact that for a lot of startups building a brand, it's It's a nice thing to do, but it's quite expensive because you probably have to end up paying so on quite a bit of cash to do it. But it seems like Darrell's found the way in which you you make that process quite simple, very similar to say how you might build a website, for example, through an outer shell provider. Yeah, exactly. And we talked about last episode about spending your limited resources in a very effective ways, and to go to a branding agency, you're going to be talking probably a couple of grand to get a brand made for you. So this is a simple, cost effective solution that's delivered instantly, So it's a really good alternative for a potential start up to get a brand out there. Yeah, particularly the second guess, that sort of questions that a client would ask a brand designer and to have automated that is very clever indeed, in effect, how to make money while you're sleeping. In many ways, this is what effectively achieves. Yeah, it's a very different business model from the design model, where that's all about time and people. This is about automation and, essentially, yeah, how to make money when you're sleeping. The programme uses machine learning, which in very simple terms the analogy that I'll give is comparing it to kind of Netflix. So if you've watched one particular show, it might recommend something else for you, so essentially learns your habits and behaviours. So Darrell's got big ambitions. He's obviously starting with branding and how to automate that, but he's talking about automating blog posts and future marketing as well. So really interesting space and just on branding or at what point should a start up consider their brands? We spoke in the last episode about actually in terms of investing your money when we're chatting with her. In fact, go out and spend the time and invest the money in terms of tapping the potential clients or tapping. It's probably not the right word, but developing relationships. That's the word. That's exactly the phrase I'm looking for. But here I get the impression that Darryl was saying is that you know, don't leave it too long into your business journey before you come to that in a monologue about your brand because it is important. Yeah, and I think when he speaks about Brand, he means the overarching mission for the actual company rather than just your logo. So I think he's getting start ups to think about their their purpose, their mission, early doors and also create a brand at the same time. Do you think people do make that mistake from your experience? Do you think people think just about the logo and not about actually, what's my what is my brand? In a more holistic sense? I think they do think about it, but they don't communicate it effectively. Alright, so R and D obviously very important and funding is available. But it wasn't always plain sailing. Yeah, it's a great initiative from the government, but there's obviously a few pitfalls that you need to be aware of. One of the things we like to do things differently, and one of the main things we did is we made a commitment to the research and development programme. So we discovered what was available to us through the government, and we put the application and stuff in process. It's a 28 day process to get paid once the initial bid goes in and they sign it off and you get paid in 28 days. In our case, it took nearly 34 weeks to get paid. That's tough, especially when your cash flow forecasts those finances coming in and you're right. We need to make sounds and we're always making sounds. But, you know, it's like you weren't expecting that kind of pressure. So, you know, we're always hungry about growth, but that was probably the most difficult time in the in the last couple of years we've been building the businesses you know, the R and D journey. I think we know what to expect now. We've got third year about to go through, and, you know, they're telling us it's going to be a lot shorter. It's more like 28 days rather than 34 weeks or whatever, but it was unexpected and very difficult to manage. So what would your advice be to any companies looking at R and D? I think it's a great thing for the government. It is to inspire innovation, but don't rely on it cash wise. I think that's probably the mistake that we made is that we were expecting that cash in a lot quicker. It's almost like do it, get the process in. But make sure everything else is sustainable as well. We have plenty of business in. It was just turning around those projects in time to get the cash flow flowing again because we had invested so heavily in research and development projects. So we had to pull back on the research and development projects to get more work in and done. And and I think for some businesses that get it done, don't rely on it. It's almost a bonus when it comes through. Her, you know, helped us, but just keep your eye on the board with the business as well. So Darryl, for these really challenging moments who's in and around your support network. So I have people based in the NatWest Entrepreneur Hub. I've got a guy called and Jackson has been absolutely amazing and a guy called Ali read. Both of those have really helped me at key times in the business and helped us navigate what seems to be really difficult times. Have another guy called Mike Wilshire from the Executive Foundation that's a peer to peer group, so he heads it up, brings a load of CEOs, directors and stuff together on a on a monthly basis and once a year ago on a recess for three days. So I've just come back, and it's literally just thinking about your vision for yourself. You're doing all this hard work, but what does that look like with the rest of your life? You're not just your job. How does how does my life look like going forward? Because obviously the business succeeds and be able to impact all those types of things. So having that support network around having peer to peer groups that, as I said in the Hub, there are loads of people that are starting their own businesses in the Executive Foundation. There are those of people that are doing it, and we can talk and compare really, really helps and then you've got the wisdom of someone that runs it like Mike, we'll share that can just ask those really difficult questions that you don't always know the answers to. Right now you've got where you need to get to. I think you need to have people that challenge you, so we're all accountable. I think that's the biggest thing in this space. Is having people around you that hold you to account My vision is actually on my phone, so every time I pick it up, I can see held me accountable. We'll wake up in the morning. I know why what I'm doing. Any one of those boxes. There's something to do. But that's why I'm alive to be able to execute these things. So how many people do you employ? Darrell and kind of what are the main benefits of working with you? So there's a team of nine. We do work freelancers as and when we need them to get to get stuff done. What makes us different in the marketplaces we've committed to the four day work week, which a lot of people thought, Well, you're a bit crazy, you know, You start up and they are hitting their four day work week. But before we make that as part of our DNA as we grow, then it would just be normal to us. And we know how it works. So before they work, works from the perspective of Week One. They work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Friday is a day off. Go and have fun. Go and do whatever you want to do that you probably can't do on a Saturday because you're washing and ironing all that mundane stuff. Or you might want to do the mundane stuff on the Friday and then have fun on Saturday. The second week of that two week cycle is the Friday is an R and D Day, so they look at projects, look at areas that will further their career in further their expertise in and spend their time on that. Because again, you know, I might go and check out coding. When I get home in the evening, you get home in the evening. It's like kids are up. But you know what? I can't be bothered. I'll do it again tomorrow. Now we're actually giving people space to be able to learn as well, you know, within their own time, in their own direction. They can come in the office. They don't have to. They can go sit in a coffee shop all day or whatever read books. But the idea is that if they invest in themselves, they become more valuable to us as a business. And the purpose of having that extra time in that day off, certainly in the creative industry, allows them to be more creative. You know, they're just having fun, nothing worse, being under immense pressure and try and be creative. It's proven it's very difficult. So if you can relieve that pressure, ideas can come when they're out on a walk. That's that kind of stuff. That's amazing. I think, yeah, just having the head space to be able to take time out and develop yourself is critically important. And actually embedding that as part of the role is I think that's a brilliant thing. You've done that, though. The other thing is that it helps with retention. We've got quite a few developers on board and everyone's looking for developers so they get hit up on linked in and it's quite good when they respond Well, we've got four day work week and they go all right. Well, we can't do that and leave us alone. You know, in the space. I think it's very interested in the tech world. People looking at remote working people are looking at flexi working that sort of stuff before they work, works for us. They didn't lose any money either. So when we went down to four days, we didn't say Right now you got to work at eight o'clock in the morning to eight o'clock at night. But we've actually our turnover and our growth has gone up since we've done It says a lot, really, in terms of making those changes. Well, you know what, Ali? Listening to Darryl there, he really strikes me has been a very modern sort of entrepreneur and someone who's annoyingly guy his life so balanced everything in its right place and where it needs to be. So I want to work for this guy. Basically, yeah, he's very visionary and you know, he's not afraid to put his head out there above the parapet and and be different. Let's start off with R and D first and the R and D funding? Yeah, So the government has put an initiative in place, essentially the schemes called R and D tax credits. So it basically enables you as a business to reclaim. Money is invested in innovation and R and D, so you can actually reclaim up to 33 pence on the pound invested in R and D. Obviously, one of the issues Darrell's come up against there is the issue with the basically putting into his cash flow forecast as a money coming in and actually taking longer than 28 days and actually taking 34 weeks. So we've had a few issues there, but it's a great initiative from the government. There are specialists out there who can actually advise you on the R and D tax claims. You can speak to accountants, but there are actually specialist firms like Forest Brown, who actually just specialist in doing these tax claims, and they actually don't take any money up front. They basically take a percentage of the money that you received back from government, so it's kind of no win, no fee. Okay, so that's R and D funding. Let's just talk about some of the more general things that he touched upon and we're talking about cash flow is a sort of different take on that is about people with second jobs. Now, I think is very common for people in the starting position that they whilst they're getting the business off the ground, they have to have a steady source of income as a safety notes. But what was really reassuring and and against what his pocket is all about to offer reassurance and Daryl's words there don't forget who you really are. Yeah, there's some great advice there, and, you know, in the short term you might be doing stuff you might be stacking shelves, washing cars, whatever it may be working in a bar waiting. But don't forget your longer term game plan about about your business and your future direction. Have that kind of infinite mindset about be true to yourself and remember your future direction. Okay, just also touching upon some of the sport that Darrell had. Darrell mentions the Net rest entrepreneurial hub as an example of the sort of stuff that's out there. Is that something you've come across? Yeah, they've got a hub in Bristol, but they've got hubs throughout the country. So do you have a look on their website? Essentially, they support startups, but also companies looking to grow as well. So they got free core programmes there. And there's basically in house advisers. So Ali Reed and Andy Jackson to people that obviously Daryl mentioned who are based in Bristol. But they've got some fantastic people. They're the biggest part of it, really, is that you get a community of startups who are all in the same position, and you can keep each other accountable, do business with one another, and it's a good environment to be based in. You get free office space and free advice so highly recommend checking them out. Besides these guys, it sounds like he's got a support network that keeps him to account. And I mean, that annoys way. We've spoken in in the previous podcast, a podcast about mentoring, and it sounds like a variation on that. Yeah, I mean, going away and taking time out of the business to work on the business is vitally important. And actually having someone who really challenges and pushes you is definitely key. So asking the really difficult questions getting you thinking, and you might not have an answer first time round. But that question will keep niggling you and you will come up with an answer. Okay, and then fine. Let's look at the four day week, which is the Nirvana, the Valhalla of going into business for yourself. Darrell's very much made it part of his businesses, D N A. And the thing that came into my head and we had this conversation a minute ago is I reckon a lot of people, given the choice in this day and age, would take a four day week above, say, a job, which was paid slightly more. Yeah, I think so. I think it's about having that balance in your life and also having their head space to develop your career personally. So I love the idea of just actually having that R and D Day. And, like Darrell says that time spent working on your future direction will have benefits for the business in terms of increased creativity, increased productivity, retention. It's definitely not a gimmick. When he's implementing this scheme, something might say, Well, four day week, it's just well, you can be quite cynical about it and say, Well, it's just you can't really be working that hard or you can't be becoming that much work there or you must be working like crazy for the four days are in. But I don't get the impression at all from from what Darrell was saying no, he's definitely wants to care for his staff and wants them to have a good balance in their lives, and I think that the proof is in the pudding, he said. Turnover has gone up as a result of implementing the four day work week. It's definitely something that I think a lot businesses could learn from and observe the fact that actually it does test the traditional model of a five day week. Everyone's going to 95 okay, yes, there may be some sort of business where you do have to be in five days a week because of the service you're providing or whatever, but it does sound like a lot of businesses could learn from what was done here. Definitely, and you only have to look at countries like Sweden who have implemented four day work weeks and you know, the quality of life and the productivity has dramatically increased a quality of life is a big thing here again, going back to why you go into business for yourself. But I know it's hard work and sometimes a thankless task. Long hours, quite antisocial at times. But there is a quality of life thing in there as well. Isn't it about being your own boss about doing something that you believe in? Yeah, I think it's just having the flexibility over your own diary and making your own decisions rather than saying, Well, I've got to run that past the boss. You are the boss. Yeah, yeah, right. So we're coming towards the conclusion of this week's interview, and as we do with all our guests, we try and seek their particular wisdom and ask them for one or two particular piece of advice for startups. We've done the same with Darrell and he comes up with some Polish. Doesn't Yeah, he's got some really good advice for startups because he comes across lots of startups and where they fall down. So he's got some really good advice for early stage companies. So, Darryl, where do you see kind of some early stage companies falling down slightly. I think many companies don't really struggle to explain what they do. They kind of get that. We've heard the whole Simon Sinek. No, you're why that kind of stuff, And I think it's being able to articulate why they do it and what makes them unique. There are two key things, and I find businesses that want to get going. It's like, No, we don't need to worry about that. Let's just get going. What this programme does is allow people to drill down on what makes them unique. Is there a niche that they're focusing on? Yeah, you might be a barber's, but is the barber is just about teenagers, or is it a barber about just men? Only if they can drill down on what a niche is actually helps them establish what their uniqueness is in the marketplace. It gets people to think that way. I think you can have a business idea, but not asking the question. What makes you unique? You just become average, and I think these questions force you to become unique, and that is a common problem with start ups. They got this great idea. Let's launch the idea and everyone wanted to buy it. Then about three months later, when no one's knocked on the door, they're going well. I don't know what's going on. Let's go and try something else, which they took some time to say. What makes me better than that person down the road or I've got many more years of experience, but it's got to go more than that. And I think if you can get those questions answered right away, it really does help you going forward. So, Darrell, as a serial entrepreneur, what advice do you have, or would you give to a startup just getting going? I think it's a bit of a cliche one. But don't forget why you started. You know, you have good days, really good days and some really bad days. And I think it's a and entrepreneurs to make sure you've got people around you that can speak into your life and who have been on the journey before that can say, Yeah, I get it. We understand it being part of an entrepreneurial hub have done that. No one's got it all sussed out, and even speaking to serial entrepreneurs who were doing it for 10 years. They still get their headaches, they still struggling with different things. So it's a very up and down world, and I think you just got to learn to live in a live on the on the flats of things. They're trying to remain normal rather than bounce up and down. So my advice is, don't forget what you started because you did it because you wanted to live a different life. You wanted to make a difference. You wanted to leave an impact and you couldn't do in the current vehicle that you are in. So you decided to go for it. And I think patience is key. It's not going to happen immediately. I mean, very few overnight success, but it takes a lot of hard work. I think they say that it takes 10 years for an overnight success, and I would say Yes, let's bang on. You know, you just got to be persistent and consistent. So where can people find out a bit more about Genesis and creation? Genesis is website is w w dot genesis brands dot co dot UK. You just register your name and your email address, and then you can literally. Just try it. You'll have to spend any money. Just answer the questions, and then you'll see the results. And like Ali, you'll be blown away at how quickly you can pull summit together. Creation is CR eight i o N. It's a funny spelling because the eight represents infinite possibilities. If you go to that website, you'll see the type of client that we're working with, working with art galleries to engraving companies to lots of schools in the education sector and investment sector. So we've got quite a diverse range of clients, but that really helps us remain creative. And obviously the creators loves variety, not the same thing all the time. There's nothing groundbreaking about that. It's so true and so fundamental for businesses and often the most fundamental stuff that you can ignore or overlook when you are starting out on your journey. So the thing I find interesting it's a subject close to my heart is that he says many companies struggle to communicate what they do or articulate what they do, which is extraordinary to think about it, because when you set out for yourself, you know what it is you want to do. It's another thing altogether to be able to get across to your potential market. Yeah, I think most people most startups do know why they started in the first place, but they don't communicate that effectively. Darrell references, Obviously, the Simon Stanic start with Y, which is a fantastic video, by the way, and it talks about the Golden Triangle. The purpose of that, really is to do business with people who believe what you believe. So I'd highly recommend checking that out, but also actually communicating to your niche audience. Why you started in the first place just reminded that that source again. So Simon Sinek search on YouTube, Start with Y and again. His advice, basically, is the ethos of this podcast, really being an entrepreneur, being a started as a very up and down world. It is a roller coaster, highs and lows, and there's very few plateaus and plains in there. So I think it's trying to get on the plateau as well as much as you can is all all sound advice. Just go back to the previous points again. It sounds it sounds ridiculously obvious, but it's something can easy to get is to find a niche in the market. So what is it about you that is different? The USP, whatever it is, Yeah. Ultimately, if you don't define your USP and your target market in your niche audience, then you're really going to struggle because you can't sell to everyone. If you try and sell to everyone, you won't sell to anyone. So actually, defining exactly who you want to do business with is vitally important. And also, you made a very useful point that no one has it sussed or no one has. Also, just anyway, that you have people who have been in the in the game for a long time who are still trying to figure stuff out. So we talk a lot about being part of networks, the importance of networks but as sterile put their being part of an entrepreneurial being part of a community of like minded people can be a good way to survive those ups and downs. Yeah, being part of a community is really important because you've got people who are going through the same thing at the same time as you, so you can let steam off have a chat about what's causing you? A headache at the moment, and that's critically important. Well, thanks once again to Darrell Irwin there at creation. Really interesting conversation. We're all good on the show. We don't get any tougher DUI, but it's interesting. Every every week we find something new. Let's just revisit this week's theme then. So we've talked a lot about having a mission, purpose and values. They may feel like cliche business buzzwords, but they are very important. And I think a lot what Daryl spoke about there was about those those knowing what your values now having that vision, having that purpose to your life, which your business is then wrapped up in. Yeah, I think it's about knowing why you do what you do. I'm really not forgetting that and having that front and centre of your mind. Okay, that is pretty much that for this week. Let's just before we go cut off a couple of things. We mentioned it on the last podcast, but Ali and myself will be taking found in the grounded on the road. We're going to be hosting a special podcast event as part of the Bristol Entrepreneurs and Opportunity Seekers Network which you can find out more details about on the meet up site. They have a session where we will be there in person, talking about this podcast, talking about some of the themes and trends that we see and cover off on found in the ground and just talking about podcasting in general and taking people's questions about that. This will take place on Tuesday, the 25th of February at half past six at the raw Space Coworking Centre, which is 111 Gloucester Road. It's up from the arches. It's close to totally toys. I used to shop there as a kid, so you know, we're totally toys is it's just just close by. Okay, so we'll continue to share details on that. But, yeah, half of six Tuesday, the 25th of February, all things about family grounded about the podcast about the stuff we cover. And also we'll be capturing some audio from the evening to using special one of podcast later on this spring at some point. So look out for more details of that on our social channels, indeed, and we'll also be inviting one of our guests from the podcast and We're going to be announcing that on social, so please do stay tuned. It's just too exciting early. It's just way too exciting. Speaking of social, just remind everyone about where they can catch us. Yep. So we're on Twitter founded, grounded and also on Facebook. Founded and grounded. So look it up. Follow us. Joining in the conversation that's has done for another episode. Ali, Thank you for your time. Pleasure as always, Andrew. And we'll be back with another edition in a couple of weeks time, so we'll speak to you, then. Cheerio. Yeah. Yeah. Uh huh.
