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Kabla Talk fifteen eighty. You know, I think you when
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we think about negotiating a lot of times we think
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about hostage situations or life and death situations.
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Like this, good danco.
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But thinking about and thinking about today's conversation we're about
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to have, I realize, based on her work, that every
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just about every minute of our life is a negotiation.
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Welcoming into the space a globally recognized negotiation expert, she's
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a twelve time award winning faculty member at the Wharton School,
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highly sought after speaker, and the author of a book
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called Bring Yourself, How to Harness the Power of Connection
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to Negotiate Fearlessly. Mariy to her poor, thank you for
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joining us this morning.
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Thank you for having me very excited to have this conversation.
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Yeah, you know, I I think when we think negotiator,
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we either think, you know, you're you're doing Michael Jackson's
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contract with a big record label, or you're talking to
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a hostage you know, a hostage holder trying to get
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someone out right. But you point out that negotiating is
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not just it's not just life and death.
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It's not just life in death, that it's actually something
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that we do every single day, whether you have a toddler,
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you have pets, whether it's with a loved one, family members,
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lots of women who are entrepreneurs, they do it with
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their landlords and their clients and their vendors, driving in
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traffic negotiations. Literally, it's like it's I always.
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Say, it's the soundtrack of our lives, and we do
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it constantly.
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It's so funny too, because when you said toddler, the
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memories came flitting back in. That's how you do all
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day long, if you have a top or is negotiate.
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I've always considered myself to be terrible at it, you know,
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I don't drive a hard bargain. But it's it's interesting
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when you say, because the stereotype I guess on the
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TV shows, you know, you see a guy with some
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kind of ear piece who is very you know, very
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cop like and methodical and logical and highly trained and
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unemotional sort of negotiating, and I think that you're trying
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to tell us that that ain't it.
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It's not it, And it's unfortunate because I don't know
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of any human that has better negotiation skills than a
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mom actually who has a toddler. You are because you're
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doing it all the time. You have all this practice.
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But the way that society frames it, you know what
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I mean. I mean literally, you're like in practice all day.
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But the way society frames it for us, what we
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see in the news or the movies, really is so
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disempowering because we do see just this one model who
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is brash and in your face, and there's like this
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wind lose proposition that feels like a war, a Game
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of Thrones kind of Outlook.
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Yeah, I mean, but what you're talking about is a
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more a model based more in relationships, human connectivity, the
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human spirit, or the human tendency of connection or not connection.
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Is that fair?
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Absolutely? Because if you think that there's only one model
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of negotiations, then we all think, well, I can't be
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good at that because I'm not like that guy on TV,
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or I'm not like that hospice negotiator. Where's the reality is,
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there's no one type of model negotiator.
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Everybody can be a great negotiator.
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You have all this experience every single day you're negotiating,
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and if we really understood that, we would realize that
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one it is based on human connections because it is
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just that, and that anybody can be a great negotiator.
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We have practice, we should feel empowered, and we have experience.
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So I think just just believing that alone makes us
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feel more confident that there's no rulebook, that there's no cookbook.
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It's really just bringing your experiences and your values into
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conversation and honoring those things.
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I mean, and just I want to take this moment
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to point out that you have a you have a
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crazy roster of clients. Fortune one hundred companies, major sports leagues,
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big charitable institutions, government agencies. It goes on and on.
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So it's not like you're sitting somewhere, you know, on
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a small island about how we could have this new
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way of negotiating. I mean, you're putting this into action
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in you know, in the middle of the rat race,
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so to speak. Right.
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Absolutely, And because I have so many different perspectives and
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you know, thousands of students and experiences, and I've seen
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all kinds of different approaches to negotiations that are quite successful.
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What I've realized is that it's not again a certain
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model or a certain type of person or certain characteristics.
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The best negotiators are those negotiators for authentic who really
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sort of align with their values, know exactly who they are,
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understand their own value, and walk into the negotiations really
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driven by those things, empowered by their own experience and
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their own set up beliefs.
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I mean, it does make sense because if it's value based,
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I'm going to be less likely to back down. But
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I mean doesn't mean I would necessarily be in, you know,
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being more combative. It just means that I'm going to
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stand all my values. I'm going to stand on my principles,
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regardless of the outcome.
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Exactly exactly.
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And you know what this is like. When we don't
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abide by our values, when we don't.
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Honor our convictions, it doesn't.
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Matter what the outcome is. We feel like we've lost
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every time because we've given into something that rather than
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rather than honoring what's really really important to us, we've
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compromised on that very thing, and that that can never
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feel good, that can never feel like you've done well
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and the outcome is what you have sought.
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Yeah, it's really interesting, even just having this conversation right
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now and hearing you speak on it, I think of
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times when just being you know, myself, has de escalated
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a situation within the family or within my workplace that
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I wasn't trying to get anything. I just wanted everyone to,
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you know, be cool and be happy and stop tripping.
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And so I wouldn't necessarily think of that as a negotiation.
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Would you say that.
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It is one hundred percent? Because even what you were
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doing is like mediating.
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Basically, which is also negotiations.
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But hearing one another. You know, listening and negotiations is
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completely underrated, but really truly listening to people you know,
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understanding them, and hearing with your I always say, it's
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not just with your ears, but really with your heart,
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your eyes, your mind, an your ears. It's the entirety
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of the experience when we finally see people, when we
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respect them, and that allows us to not only better
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understand them and their wives, but also to be able
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to communicate in a way that they can hear us.
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Too, because it's not just about you, right.
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This is the classic nor audience kind of you know framework,
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which is you have to communicate things in a way
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that they will hear you, and you bringing in your
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own experience into those situations. One you're standing on what
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you know to be your strength, which is your principles,
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but also communicating in a way that people can actually
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hear you because you know who they are. You're curious
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about them, You're curious about how they're hearing you, how
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they're receiving you. It is I hate to say, it's
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just that simple. And it's not that it's simple, because
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we all need better listening skills. We all need to
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know how to be better present and more mindful. But
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in the sense of there's no tactics, there's no script,
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it's you being authentic.
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Maury's Harraport is our guest. The book is Bring Yourself
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How to Negotiate Fearlessly. Lord knows we could all use
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some lessons on that. We'll continue the conversation when we
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come forward on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. Yes, you're waking
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up with me, and you're waking up with one of
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the world's most recognized negotiation experts. She's a faculty member
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at the Wharton School and award winning one at that
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and the book Bring Yourself, How to Negotiate Fearlessly may
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apply to more than you think, and not just business,
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but also your own life, your career, your path forward.
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I'm you know I was listening to what you're saying
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about bringing your whole self and hearing with your heart
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and not just it's not just about winning or having
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some formula, but about really listening and showing up and
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being present. It's it feels like nationally, internationally, where we
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are in a ruthless era, right, That's how it feels
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very cutthroat, very intense. There's a lot of consolidation, there's
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a lot of sort of at all costs pursuit of
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wealth and such. It doesn't feel like bringing your heart
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and bringing your authentic self, would it might It feels
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like maybe bringing a knife to a gunfight.
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Well, I mean, you're absolutely right about the environment we're
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living in. Ruthless is actually the perfect word for it.
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But it's because we are living in an environment where
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people really don't see one another, they don't hear one another.
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We're not connected, we're divided. I think oftentimes what makes
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you unique is actually your strength. And so if you
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are negotiating with somebody who comes in truly believing like
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this is going to be war, and yet you are trying.
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To build a connection with them that you are.
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Actually hearing none, You're you have empathy for them you're listening.
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These are such unique traits that you know, people do stop.
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I mean, it sort of stops people in their tracks.
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And I always talk about the fact that before there's
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actually the deal making, the negotiations, there's a whole other stage.
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Which is, you know, what we call information.
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Sharing, which is that notion of forget what's going to
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be transacted, forget about the deal that's coming.
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What about actually connecting with the person sitting in front of.
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You, and whether it's small talk about sports or you know,
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maybe something that the person is wearing, or there's pictures
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of their family in the background, but really inquiring and
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being curious in a way that tells the person you
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are actually more important than the deal that we're about
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to embark on. And that alone creates such a feeling
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of First of all, it's very very It sort of
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sets the person's head spinning because they're like, what's happening, right, Wait.
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There's somebody actually interested in me more.
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Than what the deal is. But this humanity that you
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bring in to the conversation really sets the stage for
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a much easier negotiations and much easier conversation. That's where
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trust is built.
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That's where the humanity is brought in.
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It's a lot easier to do that than to talk numbers.
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And so if you actually give it some breadth and
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depth before you jump into transaction, there's something to build
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on and people remember you.
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People enjoy doing business with you, People will.
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Want to come back to you. You know, I work
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with a lot of entrepreneurs dominique, and I always say,
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you know, people don't choose businesses, they choose people. And
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it's that memory, you know what I mean, That memory
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that you leave with somebody that becomes your value proposition.
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And this is true in relationships, this is true in business,
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this is true in services that you seek, vendors that
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you work with. We always want to go back to
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the person that we actually enjoyed working with. And I
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think that's the It seems so rational, right, and yet
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it's not. We don't often believe that to be true
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in the negotiations.
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Yeah, it makes sense. You have one one of my
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favorite quotes on your Instagram, which is my Angelo. We
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may encounter many defeats, but we may not. We must
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not be defeated. I tell myself that all the time.
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But the other thing she said is people remember how
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you make them feel right, not what you said, but
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how write right exactly exactly.
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And that's actually one of my favorites from her because
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it's true. Like again, working with small business owners or entrepreneurs,
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I tell me, you know, don't worry about spending all
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that money on websites and this and that, it's really
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about the feeling that you leave with a customer that
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allows them to come back to you. That's that's the value.
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And it's again going back to just even in our
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daily relationships, it's the people that listen to us. It's
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the people that hear us and understand us and invest
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in us as humans that we feel the most comfortable with,
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that we trust the most, that even when things get hard,
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that you're going back to that person because because.
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There is a sense of connection and investment in the
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humanity of it. And that's you know, and again.
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You being your authentic self makes you more empowered to
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do so it's not you're not performing, you're not memorizing lines,
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you're just presence, you know what I mean.
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And I think what's key about that is a lot
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of time, at least for me, a lot of times
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when people are trying to convince you of something or
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negotiate with you, and they do that human connection thing
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in a phony way. It can have just the opposite,
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you know, affact, Hey.
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How about those fakers?
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You know?
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Right? Right? Yeah, and it is it's like buying a
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youth car, right, It's like you know, I got something
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for you here. No, it's but you know that it's
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we know when somebody is being disingenuous because they haven't
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actually either either they're not paying attention to us, so
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they're not even hearing what you're saying, or they're distracted
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by their cell phone or text, or they haven't done
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their home their homework, right, don't talk to me about
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something that I don't even care about, or did you
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even hear what I just said to you? Did you
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even listen to my answer? Because we shut off when
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we know people don't care, and we know in authenticity
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when we see it, we're not stupid. So but that's
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why I'm saying. The work isn't actually being present, so
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you're actually hearing somebody, but it's also doing the homework
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to know.
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How to connect with this person and really build on that.
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Yeah, you know you say it's you say it's sometimes
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it's not about I mean, I'm looking at your Instagram
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and you say that sometimes it's not about just winning.
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You know, we think we think about these things in
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zero some What do you mean by that?
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First of all, I never use the words winning or
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losing because they mean different things to different people. And
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you know it's true because my winning may be different
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than somebody else is winning, right my if you're if
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you are somebody that values relationships, and and it's a
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quote quote people, please, your version of winning means both
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sides are happy. To somebody that is more competitive, that
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may not be their definition of winning.
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So winning means different things. But the other part of
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this is the negotiations that the more difficult and yet
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most enjoyable to me. Part of the negotiations is when
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we do this dance that allows us to find places
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where we can compromise, where I'm not giving up the
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most important thing that for me, and you're not giving
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up the most important thing to you. But yet we
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find places where we can compromise and give in a
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way that doesn't feel like, you know, a burden to us,
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and yet feels like, well, you know what, if this
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is what means means the most to you, then great,
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here you go.
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This is what I'm looking for.
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Can we find a way that we can problem solve
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to make this possible for both of us and negotiations
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at the end of the day. To me is really
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this notion of problem solving, not not win lose, but
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finding a.
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Place where we can create these sort of opportunities.
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That are win win. And that's again that's not easy.
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It requires commitment, requires time, it requires understanding, but it
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also allows again going back to that my end. Look, well,
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it gives you this this feeling of I really enjoyed
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doing this with us person. They weren't trying to crush me.
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We were trying to find a way to actually not
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only continue this conversation, but find ways that are beneficial
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for both of us.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I Also I'm reading something here that
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I found quite compelling, which is that when leaders learn
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to take the signals from their nervous systems and from
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their you know, non logical signals coming from their body
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as information rather than interference, they will be a lot
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more successful. It sounds very fairy, but also like really smart.
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It is. It's like, you know, sometimes when I'm teaching,
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I go, I do a lot around manifestation and mindset,
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and I'm like, before we go there, I know this
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may sound very like non Wharton like, but I'm not
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here to talk to you from sort of non human terms.
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I'm here to connect all of these things together. Because
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we are human. We have emotions, we have feelings, we
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we have a nervous system, we have you know, we
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have energy that we carry with us. We have energy
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that we we accept from other people, whether for the
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good or for the bad. Right and when we are
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let's say, let's say, when we get better sleep, when
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we are less stressed, when we have a clearer mind,
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we can make better decisions. When we are burdened, when
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we are stressed, when we are actually not well physically,
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those are the things that actually don't.
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Allow us to make better decisions.
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We're tired, we're burned out, we're overwhelmed, and so our
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minds and bodies really sort of sit together when it comes.
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To negotiations and decision making.
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You can't separate the two. And that's why for everybody
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out there who's experiencing burnout, who is feeling incredibly stressed
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and fearsome, these days because there's so much going on
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around us. Understanding that where you create boundaries, where you
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bring clarity for yourself, where.
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You take those mental and physical breaks, it's really really
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important because.
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Not only is it good for you physically, but it's
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also great for you emotionally and spiritually and makes you
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a better leader, makes you a better partner, makes you
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a better parent, makes you a better decision maker.
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Absolutely more to Hairport is our guests. Bring Yourself How
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to Negotiate Fearlessly continues after News, Traffic and sports only here.
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She's been on Forbes, Inc, Magazine, LinkedIn, Top Voices, Marketplace, Money,
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The Next Chapter, ESPN, and and many more. And she
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is on faculty Wharton. She also has a book that
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we all need to read called Bring Yourself, How to
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Negotiate Fearlessly. And when you were talking about this zero
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sumthing that we get into, you know, sort of the
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predatory negotiator, stomp them out, leave no doubt, win or
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takes all kind of mentality, I was thinking about our relationships,
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our personal relationships love parent, child, even parent teacher or
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I mean child teacher relationships. And if we I think
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it sounds like if we took more of the approach
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that you're you're describing, we would have happier personal relationships,
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not just business relationships.
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Yeah. And you know, honestly, if you think about zero
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some relationship, if you win the deal and lose the relationship,
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you didn't win, And you know what I mean, and
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the person we always think about even in arguments and
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what have you, like, I have to be right, but
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what does that really mean in a course of a
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long term relationship. And honestly, if we could just rethink
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about these things, complex will be reduced. If you start
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thinking about this as more of a collaboration, then you know,
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I have to be right. Well, if you just sit
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back and think, well, what is me being right every time?
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Actually do the to the person that's sitting across from me,
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due to my spouse, or to a friend or a
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family member. That does not That is not foundation for
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long term relationships. That instead is setting up setting the
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grounds for long term resentment. You know, we wonder why
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people get divorces. It's because these conversations aren't had in
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a way that says, let me really hear you, I
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want you to hear me. Let's figure out where we're
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missing one another. That takes empathy and understanding, not how
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am I going to beat you? How am I going
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to be right? And by the way, if we think
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we're right every time, we're actually wrong, because there's no
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way you know that you can know everything. It's if
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you walk through this earth thinking you know everything, is
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opposed to walking through this earth with curiosity and empathy,
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that that leads to a very unfulfilled and unhappy life.
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Yeah, it's one of my favorite yng levan Zant quotes.
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She says, would you rather be right or would you
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rather be happy?
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Exactly?
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Exactly?
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It's absolutely true.
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And I have to remind myself. What about negotiating with ourselves?
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I think the capacity for self deception is so high?
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Yes, yes, because oh, there's so many things to us right,
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I always say, the hardest negotiations that I have are
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often with myself. Yeah, giving ourselves compassion, listening to our bodies,
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understanding our own value, dignifying ourselves with time attention, knowing
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what we want and why we deserve it. I mean,
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those two things are really so hard for people to
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wrap their heads around because we don't really spend time
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in introspection and really understanding ourselves. We don't carve out
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that space. It's funny because COVID everybody was in their
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heads right we weren't going anywhere we were And people
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are like, oh my god, I didn't know this about myself.
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You know, well you didn't because it was always go, go, go,
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and even give yourself that space every day to check
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in with yourself and whether it's you know again, I
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work with a lot of entrepreneurs. I myself on this category.
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You know, I wouldn't make time for illnesses like I
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don't have time for that right now. Well, your body
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is saying no, you will make time. And if you
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don't listen, I'm gonna scream. And when that happens, you
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bring down. I mean, there's so little of you left.
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And so if we just actually spent the time checking
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in with ourselves every day, where are you? Are you happy?
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Are you doing what you're supposed to be doing? How
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do you feel? You know again, connecting that mind heart,
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a connection that you really allowed you to feed you
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more information? You know, that is so important. That's the
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negotiations in and of itself. Making the space to do
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that is as important as anything else in your life.
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So what is that work that we have to do.
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I mean, whether we're negotiating with especially negotiating with ourselves,
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but negotiating anywhere, what is the work we have to
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do on ourselves to be read? I need to show
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up and be present and listen and you know, be
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compassionate and empathetic.
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That's a few things I think that again, you can't
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do any of that if you're distracted. In these days
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that distractions come from everywhere. Right, I've reduced my I'm
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on a news diet. I always say. I live in DC,
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so news is unavoidable, but it gives me so much
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physical and mental and spiritual stress that I just shut
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it off and I spend that time doing things that
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I really enjoy, whether it's just going outside for a
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quick walk because I'm feeling very stressed, or turning on
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music which is very sort of even spiritually like redeeming
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for me. You know, I'd rather be in that space
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where I'm happy and lifted as opposed to drowned out
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in news that is that feels like it's disintegrating my soul.
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You know that it really is pulling me in all
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different places. That is bring me no joy, So creating
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that space where whether it's five minutes, it's ten minutes,
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it's a half an hour. Really those breaks that you
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take that cuts off everything else and allows you to
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stay in a place where you're hearing yourself and you're
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connecting with yourself and you feel it a place of peace,
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really really important. And these days, I understand even five
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minutes may feel like a lot sometimes when you're ripping
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and roaring.
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In twenty thousand directions, but it's so necessary.
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And then the other part of that is is actually
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spending the time in conversation with yourself, particularly if you're
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going into negotiations or a hard conversation and knowing what
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your values are. I always say those are your non negotiables.
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What is the last time you could really ask yourself,
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what is it that I really want? What is it
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that that's really important to me? That I can't negotiate away?
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Where are my boundaries? And if you don't have those
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conversations with yourself, it's actually not something you can you
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can quickly, you know, go to because you don't understand
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that you haven't had that conversation with yourself, you haven't
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even reflected on it. So how do you have a
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hard negotiations or a hard negotiation, a conversation with someone
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and don't even know what your stand for. You don't
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even know what it is that you want.
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To get out of this conversation.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah, I absolutely do. I was reading the re reading
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the four Agreements, and one of the things that I
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missed the first time was ask yourself questions like you
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don't even you don't even know your position, So how
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are you going to listen to someone else's position? It
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makes sense I'm in here negotiating, but I don't know
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what I want. That sounds like an exercise in futility.
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Absolutely. And you know, even even with salary conversations, compensation conversations,
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you know, we're so focused on the dollar amount sometimes
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that we don't even think, well, if I got to
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hire a salary would I would I be happy in that? Up? Well,
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is it other things that I want? Is it time
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off that I want? Is it do I want to
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go back to school? And that's what I really want
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to ask them for. But if you can't have those
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conversations again with yourself and be really clear, then you're fighting.
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For something you don't not you don't even.
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Want to fight for right and and that's that's absolutely
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the truth of it. It feels really simple right when
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you say it out loud, but because we were like, oh,
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that's easy, but is it really You haven't parked at
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the time.
484
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:33.279
Have you really asked yourself what it would take to
485
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:37.039
make you happy and in the job, in the relationship,
486
00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:40.880
in life. And that's why I love the conversation about
487
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:43.839
persistence versus purpose.
488
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:51.039
Right, yes, yes, And I want you to actually speak
489
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:52.799
to that a little bit more because now that you
490
00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:55.880
just said that, I'm going back to the four agreements. Okay,
491
00:28:55.960 --> 00:28:56.839
tell me a little bit more.
492
00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:59.480
Well, I'm really basing it on what you're saying, what
493
00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:01.880
you said, which is kind of like we get on
494
00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:04.440
we can get on this hamster wheel. Well, you know,
495
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:06.839
I know I want that, you know, not even I know.
496
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.000
It's like that's my goal, that's my goal. That's my goal.
497
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:11.079
I want to make. I want to make six figures. Right,
498
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:13.640
I'm going to be, you know, coach of the Year
499
00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:15.759
or whatever it is. And we've been chasing it for
500
00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:18.440
so long that we forget to check in and say, well,
501
00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:22.440
is this my purpose? Am I in alignment with is
502
00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:25.359
you know, is this coming with God's blessings? Do I
503
00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:29.079
even want this anymore? Or, as my late friend Jim
504
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:30.839
Brown used to say, am I willing to pay the
505
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:32.000
cost to be the boss?
506
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:40.039
You know? Exactly exactly, And we're almost almost pre programmed,
507
00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:45.559
if you will, And we associate certain things with for example,
508
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:49.880
what success means, right, right, And that's why that's why
509
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:52.079
people get all the success of the world. They get
510
00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:55.160
the position, they get the accolades, and yet they still
511
00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:59.480
find themselves unhappy. It's because what they were thinking they
512
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:02.519
should be striving for wasn't, like you just said, in
513
00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:06.519
alignment with their spirit. It wasn't in aligned, in alignment
514
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:09.119
with their values. It wasn't even aligned with where they
515
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:12.480
are in life today as opposed to where they were
516
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:15.160
maybe like fifteen years ago when they set out on
517
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:16.720
this path. Right.
518
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:20.319
Yes, absolutely, And we always say and we always talk about, like,
519
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:22.960
you know, again, the four agreements, the notion of like.
520
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:23.839
Don't make assumptions.
521
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:27.279
We make a lot of assumptions about how we're supposed
522
00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:29.720
to show up in this world. But what we don't
523
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:31.920
do is check in with ourselves and say, but is
524
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:34.720
that what makes you happy? Is that what you actually
525
00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:41.079
want or or have you forgotten to make that connection
526
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:43.839
in so long that now that you're here, you're miserable
527
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:48.720
and really sitting with yourself allows you to do that dominique,
528
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:50.440
and we just don't give ourselves that space.
529
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:55.039
Yeah, yeah, you know it again. It sounds airy fairy,
530
00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:57.920
but for me, just even of five, ten, fifteen minutes
531
00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:01.279
of meditation every day, I don't know why it helps,
532
00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:04.720
but it seems to help, so I do it. Whatever
533
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:07.480
that is. You know, for those of us who like
534
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:10.319
to go a thousand miles an hour whatever that is,
535
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:14.200
to slow down, it seems to help the brain, the body,
536
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:14.599
and the.
537
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:19.839
Spirit absolutely, and meditation is tough for some people. It
538
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:23.319
really is, me included, because my head is going a
539
00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:25.079
million miles on aro. And I used to think what
540
00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:29.480
meditation meant was to don't think about anything that's impossible
541
00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:37.279
but impossible. But things like breathing, not meique, are so important,
542
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:40.599
just to oxygen that your brain gets and sitting there
543
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:43.279
and taking you know, five deep breasts like it doesn't
544
00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:47.359
have to be a big commitment, right, it just means
545
00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:52.079
stop your body is talking to you. Stop. You're on
546
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:56.240
automatic you're running on auto drive, and you don't even
547
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:58.680
know where you're going, Like, you know, just just sit
548
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:02.519
still for for a few minutes and breathe, breathe deeply,
549
00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:05.400
and maybe just go instead of you don't have to
550
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:07.200
go on a five mile walk. You can just walk
551
00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:10.559
around your block for a moment and be a nature
552
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:16.799
and and just give your body something else to feel
553
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:20.440
and see and just that change of environment sometimes is
554
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:22.920
what you need. But you have to be aware that
555
00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:25.319
you need it, otherwise you just keep going.
556
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:30.160
Yeah, that's right. Well, more to her poor is our
557
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:37.240
guests Bring Yourself how to Negotiate Fearlessly, The fearlessly part
558
00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:39.440
I want to talk about a little bit more when
559
00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:43.559
we come forward on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. Well, I'm
560
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:48.319
feeling a lot more confident about just whatever I have
561
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:51.359
to negotiate, whether it's with myself, my family, or in
562
00:32:51.400 --> 00:32:55.319
business after this short conversation, so not that short. Thank
563
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:57.839
you for spending the hour with us. More in terror
564
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:01.359
port to tell us how to follow you to obviously,
565
00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:03.680
other than going and buying the book Bring Yourself how
566
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:06.920
to Negotiate Fearlessly, which I seems like a great start,
567
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:08.480
But how else shall we follow you?
568
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:17.279
So actually, my website is probably the most resourceful place
569
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:20.119
where you can go because it's all my blogs, all
570
00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:23.119
my newsletters are there. I've done probably over one hundred
571
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:27.920
podcasts with different topics, so it's all there on my
572
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:30.319
website that's just more into Harryport dot com. But I'm
573
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:34.759
on LinkedIn, I'm on Instagram, and obviously the book you
574
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.920
can find anywhere where you buy books. So I'm around,
575
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:41.119
I'm just about everywhere.
576
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:45.720
You're everywhere all at once, and yet you're present and mindful.
577
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:49.799
Talk to me about the fearlessly part. I think one
578
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:54.240
of the biggest things that makes negotiation tough, especially in
579
00:33:54.279 --> 00:33:57.440
the workplace or in the marketplace, at least for me,
580
00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:01.200
is fear. Fear of going too far, fear of not
581
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:04.160
going far enough, fear of being embarrassed, fear of not
582
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:06.599
knowing what I'm doing, whatever it might be.
583
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:14.360
Right. So, first, I don't believe that when I say,
584
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.960
you know, I use fearlessly.
585
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:19.039
In the sentence with negotiations, it.
586
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:25.440
Doesn't mean that you lack the anxiety or the fear
587
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:30.960
of starting these conversations, you know. It's I acknowledge that
588
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:34.159
there's a lot of anxiety when people hear the word negotiations.
589
00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:36.239
They're like, oh my god, I'm so bad at it,
590
00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:38.440
I just don't even want to do it, or oh
591
00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:39.800
my god, if I do it, what if they think
592
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:41.559
I'm greedy, particularly women.
593
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:45.480
Or you know, I don't want to ruin this relationship, or.
594
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:47.400
I don't like conflicts, so I don't want to negotiate.
595
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:51.639
The truth is, if you know there is anxiety, you know, anytime,
596
00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:56.119
particularly if there's a transaction to be dealt with, money
597
00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:59.480
is a very hard conversation for people to have and
598
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:03.639
sleep to negotiate around. So I think it takes reframing
599
00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:06.400
if we start thinking stop thinking.
600
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:08.159
About negotiations again as that sort of.
601
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:11.400
One lose proposition that somebody's gonna walk away unhappy, and
602
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:14.800
instead think about it as we're just problem solving. We're
603
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:17.599
going to have a conversation. And you know, some conversations
604
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:21.239
are hard and some are easier, but all this is
605
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:23.719
is a conversation. And at the end of the day,
606
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:27.239
if I don't engage in this conversation, the answer is
607
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:30.880
always know, if I don't engage in this conversation, I
608
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:34.280
will never get what I'm what I'm looking for. And
609
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:38.440
so because I'm ignoring it actually puts me in a
610
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:41.079
place where I will regret not having done it. You know,
611
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:43.239
we regret all the studies show us we regret the
612
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.519
things that we don't do more than the things that
613
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:48.960
we do. And maybe it doesn't go our way. And
614
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:53.440
so you know, asking is the first step. Yeah, and
615
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:54.760
it's a necessary step.
616
00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:58.679
I want to circle back quickly to something you said
617
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:02.000
earlier in the conversation that kind of flew by, which is,
618
00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:05.239
you know, your the thing that makes you uniquely you
619
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:10.079
can be your strength in a negotiation. And I would imagine,
620
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:12.440
and this is a question, even if it doesn't sound
621
00:36:12.519 --> 00:36:16.039
like one, that that includes things that are generally considered
622
00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:19.119
by ourselves or others to be flaws in ourselves.
623
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:29.440
We'll all laws and I think I think the notion
624
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:32.079
of and again this was really early in our conversation today,
625
00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:36.880
which is what is a negotiator, a skilled negotiator or
626
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:40.639
a successful negotiator? Look like, what are those characteristics? And
627
00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:44.559
the truth is there isn't one model. The truth is
628
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:47.559
that we're trying to live up to this person or
629
00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:50.559
trying to speak in a way or bring different attributes
630
00:36:50.599 --> 00:36:55.000
to the table that aren't ours. That it really is
631
00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:00.559
a performance, you know, and and when we are performing, we.
632
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:03.159
Are not present because we're constantly.
633
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:04.400
Thinking in our heads. Was that what I was supposed
634
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:06.400
to say? Or how am I supposed to say this
635
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:09.119
other thing? Or you know, and and I know, you know,
636
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:12.679
you walk into negotiations again. Women go through this a lot.
637
00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:14.960
What am I supposed to be wearing? Am I supposed
638
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:15.320
to smile?
639
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:16.400
Am I supposed to not smile?
640
00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:18.360
Or should I be leaning in? Should I leaning be
641
00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:21.840
leaning back? There's this concept of mirroring that people talk
642
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:24.920
about negotiations, which I don't subscribe to at all. And
643
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:26.960
all that means is when they lean in, you lean in.
644
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:29.159
When they smile, you smile. That is the furthest thing
645
00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:34.239
from being authentic. This is a performance and it's exhausting.
646
00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:37.039
It is exhausting, and we can't you know what I mean,
647
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:38.320
we can't think clearly.
648
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:40.960
So I mean the reason I'm cracking up is because
649
00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:42.559
it sounds like you're in the middle of the negotiation
650
00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:44.360
going who am I supposed to be?
651
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:49.199
Like exactly that's historically and it's like and it's like,
652
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:51.920
by the way, it's like you know, the Goldilock syndrome, right,
653
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:54.800
Like you're supposed to smile, but don't fill too much.
654
00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:58.480
You're supposed to sort of lean into a conversation. Don't
655
00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:00.840
lean in too hard because they made and you're aggressive,
656
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:04.679
and it's it's it's a full choice. So I always say,
657
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:08.039
the easiest person for you to be is yourself, the
658
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:13.800
one that requires the least amount of memorization and performance.
659
00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:19.199
Is you being yourself? Now, do you want to show
660
00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.599
up and be successful in negotiations? Yes, And of course
661
00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:26.840
that requires things like preparation. That requires you being fully
662
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:29.679
present and not distracted. That requires you putting your phone
663
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:34.159
away so your mind doesn't go somewhere else. That requires
664
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:38.360
you to be curious, That requires you to ask questions.
665
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:40.840
So all those things are true, but none of those
666
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:46.159
things are performance. And you know the risk of authenticity
667
00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:51.199
is vulnerability, and if that's the biggest risk that you're taking,
668
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:56.000
well great, because what that means is that you're actually
669
00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:58.960
connected to the person, and you're connected, you're better connected
670
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:02.400
with yourself, and I think that's really important.
671
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:07.199
It will leave you feeling a lot more empowered and
672
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:11.440
I'm a lot more fulfilled when you know that you
673
00:39:11.559 --> 00:39:13.719
are presenting as.
674
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:17.039
Yourself as opposed to pretending to be somebody that you're
675
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:19.360
not and then at the end not doing well anyway,
676
00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:23.400
and that just you feel like a deer in headlights.
677
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:25.320
And that's that's not a great feeling.
678
00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:28.400
I mean, honestly, if I when I'm hearing you say that,
679
00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:31.880
we are just diluting ourselves because we're vulnerable even when
680
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:36.119
we're being phony, we just you know, have we we
681
00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:38.960
have protected ourselves. But you still didn't get the job,
682
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:42.119
the raise, the whatever, So you were still vulnerable. You
683
00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:45.480
were just vulnerable while wearing a mask, if that makes
684
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:50.199
any sense exactly. Mary's Harbor to hare Port. Thank you
685
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:52.639
so much for spending the hour with us. This has
686
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:56.360
been a very inspiring conversation. I can't wait to read more.
687
00:39:58.039 --> 00:39:58.880
Thank you so much.
688
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:02.320
This has been a great conversation and I appreciate you, and.
689
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:05.920
I appreciate you as well. For women, we it's time
690
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:09.480
for us to come up out of those those parts
691
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:12.639
of the gender expectations that hold us back. And this
692
00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:16.840
sounds like one great step towards that. Speaking of great women,
693
00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:20.400
Nina Turner will be featured next hour as well. New
694
00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:26.159
York Times writer Jimlboy jam Pack show Straight Ahead, don't
695
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:28.880
forget to Tap in with Me on social media. I'm
696
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:32.320
at Daprima Radio like my mama. The late great Poet
697
00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:36.280
Laureate of San Francisco, Diane da Prima, used to say,
698
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:42.440
the ultimate famine is the starvation of the imagination. Until tomorrow,
699
00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:45.599
my KBLA delegation, One Love,
1
00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:07.599
Kabla Talk fifteen eighty. You know, I think you when
2
00:00:07.719 --> 00:00:10.080
we think about negotiating a lot of times we think
3
00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:14.160
about hostage situations or life and death situations.
4
00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:16.120
Like this, good danco.
5
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:22.440
But thinking about and thinking about today's conversation we're about
6
00:00:22.440 --> 00:00:27.440
to have, I realize, based on her work, that every
7
00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:29.960
just about every minute of our life is a negotiation.
8
00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:34.960
Welcoming into the space a globally recognized negotiation expert, she's
9
00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:38.520
a twelve time award winning faculty member at the Wharton School,
10
00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:42.320
highly sought after speaker, and the author of a book
11
00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:46.119
called Bring Yourself, How to Harness the Power of Connection
12
00:00:46.799 --> 00:00:52.479
to Negotiate Fearlessly. Mariy to her poor, thank you for
13
00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:53.560
joining us this morning.
14
00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:57.960
Thank you for having me very excited to have this conversation.
15
00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:02.159
Yeah, you know, I I think when we think negotiator,
16
00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:07.920
we either think, you know, you're you're doing Michael Jackson's
17
00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:11.439
contract with a big record label, or you're talking to
18
00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:16.319
a hostage you know, a hostage holder trying to get
19
00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:20.560
someone out right. But you point out that negotiating is
20
00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:23.319
not just it's not just life and death.
21
00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:27.480
It's not just life in death, that it's actually something
22
00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:31.560
that we do every single day, whether you have a toddler,
23
00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:36.480
you have pets, whether it's with a loved one, family members,
24
00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:39.560
lots of women who are entrepreneurs, they do it with
25
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their landlords and their clients and their vendors, driving in
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traffic negotiations. Literally, it's like it's I always.
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Say, it's the soundtrack of our lives, and we do
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it constantly.
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It's so funny too, because when you said toddler, the
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memories came flitting back in. That's how you do all
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day long, if you have a top or is negotiate.
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I've always considered myself to be terrible at it, you know,
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I don't drive a hard bargain. But it's it's interesting
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when you say, because the stereotype I guess on the
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TV shows, you know, you see a guy with some
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kind of ear piece who is very you know, very
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cop like and methodical and logical and highly trained and
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unemotional sort of negotiating, and I think that you're trying
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to tell us that that ain't it.
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It's not it, And it's unfortunate because I don't know
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of any human that has better negotiation skills than a
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mom actually who has a toddler. You are because you're
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doing it all the time. You have all this practice.
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But the way that society frames it, you know what
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I mean. I mean literally, you're like in practice all day.
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But the way society frames it for us, what we
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see in the news or the movies, really is so
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disempowering because we do see just this one model who
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is brash and in your face, and there's like this
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wind lose proposition that feels like a war, a Game
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of Thrones kind of Outlook.
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Yeah, I mean, but what you're talking about is a
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more a model based more in relationships, human connectivity, the
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human spirit, or the human tendency of connection or not connection.
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Is that fair?
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Absolutely? Because if you think that there's only one model
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of negotiations, then we all think, well, I can't be
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good at that because I'm not like that guy on TV,
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or I'm not like that hospice negotiator. Where's the reality is,
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there's no one type of model negotiator.
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Everybody can be a great negotiator.
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You have all this experience every single day you're negotiating,
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and if we really understood that, we would realize that
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one it is based on human connections because it is
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just that, and that anybody can be a great negotiator.
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We have practice, we should feel empowered, and we have experience.
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So I think just just believing that alone makes us
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feel more confident that there's no rulebook, that there's no cookbook.
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It's really just bringing your experiences and your values into
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conversation and honoring those things.
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I mean, and just I want to take this moment
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to point out that you have a you have a
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crazy roster of clients. Fortune one hundred companies, major sports leagues,
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big charitable institutions, government agencies. It goes on and on.
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So it's not like you're sitting somewhere, you know, on
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a small island about how we could have this new
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way of negotiating. I mean, you're putting this into action
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in you know, in the middle of the rat race,
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so to speak. Right.
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Absolutely, And because I have so many different perspectives and
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you know, thousands of students and experiences, and I've seen
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all kinds of different approaches to negotiations that are quite successful.
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What I've realized is that it's not again a certain
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model or a certain type of person or certain characteristics.
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The best negotiators are those negotiators for authentic who really
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sort of align with their values, know exactly who they are,
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understand their own value, and walk into the negotiations really
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driven by those things, empowered by their own experience and
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their own set up beliefs.
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I mean, it does make sense because if it's value based,
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I'm going to be less likely to back down. But
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I mean doesn't mean I would necessarily be in, you know,
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being more combative. It just means that I'm going to
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stand all my values. I'm going to stand on my principles,
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regardless of the outcome.
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Exactly exactly.
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And you know what this is like. When we don't
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abide by our values, when we don't.
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Honor our convictions, it doesn't.
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Matter what the outcome is. We feel like we've lost
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every time because we've given into something that rather than
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rather than honoring what's really really important to us, we've
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compromised on that very thing, and that that can never
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feel good, that can never feel like you've done well
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and the outcome is what you have sought.
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Yeah, it's really interesting, even just having this conversation right
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now and hearing you speak on it, I think of
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times when just being you know, myself, has de escalated
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a situation within the family or within my workplace that
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I wasn't trying to get anything. I just wanted everyone to,
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you know, be cool and be happy and stop tripping.
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And so I wouldn't necessarily think of that as a negotiation.
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Would you say that.
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It is one hundred percent? Because even what you were
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doing is like mediating.
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Basically, which is also negotiations.
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But hearing one another. You know, listening and negotiations is
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completely underrated, but really truly listening to people you know,
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understanding them, and hearing with your I always say, it's
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not just with your ears, but really with your heart,
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your eyes, your mind, an your ears. It's the entirety
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of the experience when we finally see people, when we
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respect them, and that allows us to not only better
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understand them and their wives, but also to be able
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to communicate in a way that they can hear us.
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Too, because it's not just about you, right.
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This is the classic nor audience kind of you know framework,
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which is you have to communicate things in a way
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that they will hear you, and you bringing in your
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own experience into those situations. One you're standing on what
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you know to be your strength, which is your principles,
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but also communicating in a way that people can actually
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hear you because you know who they are. You're curious
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about them, You're curious about how they're hearing you, how
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they're receiving you. It is I hate to say, it's
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just that simple. And it's not that it's simple, because
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we all need better listening skills. We all need to
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know how to be better present and more mindful. But
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in the sense of there's no tactics, there's no script,
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it's you being authentic.
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Maury's Harraport is our guest. The book is Bring Yourself
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How to Negotiate Fearlessly. Lord knows we could all use
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some lessons on that. We'll continue the conversation when we
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come forward on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. Yes, you're waking
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up with me, and you're waking up with one of
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the world's most recognized negotiation experts. She's a faculty member
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at the Wharton School and award winning one at that
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and the book Bring Yourself, How to Negotiate Fearlessly may
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apply to more than you think, and not just business,
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but also your own life, your career, your path forward.
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I'm you know I was listening to what you're saying
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about bringing your whole self and hearing with your heart
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and not just it's not just about winning or having
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some formula, but about really listening and showing up and
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being present. It's it feels like nationally, internationally, where we
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are in a ruthless era, right, That's how it feels
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very cutthroat, very intense. There's a lot of consolidation, there's
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a lot of sort of at all costs pursuit of
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wealth and such. It doesn't feel like bringing your heart
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and bringing your authentic self, would it might It feels
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like maybe bringing a knife to a gunfight.
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Well, I mean, you're absolutely right about the environment we're
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living in. Ruthless is actually the perfect word for it.
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But it's because we are living in an environment where
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people really don't see one another, they don't hear one another.
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We're not connected, we're divided. I think oftentimes what makes
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you unique is actually your strength. And so if you
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are negotiating with somebody who comes in truly believing like
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this is going to be war, and yet you are trying.
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To build a connection with them that you are.
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Actually hearing none, You're you have empathy for them you're listening.
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These are such unique traits that you know, people do stop.
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I mean, it sort of stops people in their tracks.
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And I always talk about the fact that before there's
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actually the deal making, the negotiations, there's a whole other stage.
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Which is, you know, what we call information.
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Sharing, which is that notion of forget what's going to
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be transacted, forget about the deal that's coming.
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What about actually connecting with the person sitting in front of.
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You, and whether it's small talk about sports or you know,
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maybe something that the person is wearing, or there's pictures
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of their family in the background, but really inquiring and
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being curious in a way that tells the person you
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are actually more important than the deal that we're about
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to embark on. And that alone creates such a feeling
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of First of all, it's very very It sort of
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sets the person's head spinning because they're like, what's happening, right, Wait.
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There's somebody actually interested in me more.
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Than what the deal is. But this humanity that you
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bring in to the conversation really sets the stage for
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a much easier negotiations and much easier conversation. That's where
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trust is built.
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That's where the humanity is brought in.
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It's a lot easier to do that than to talk numbers.
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And so if you actually give it some breadth and
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depth before you jump into transaction, there's something to build
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on and people remember you.
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People enjoy doing business with you, People will.
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Want to come back to you. You know, I work
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with a lot of entrepreneurs dominique, and I always say,
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you know, people don't choose businesses, they choose people. And
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it's that memory, you know what I mean, That memory
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that you leave with somebody that becomes your value proposition.
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And this is true in relationships, this is true in business,
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this is true in services that you seek, vendors that
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you work with. We always want to go back to
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the person that we actually enjoyed working with. And I
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think that's the It seems so rational, right, and yet
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it's not. We don't often believe that to be true
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in the negotiations.
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Yeah, it makes sense. You have one one of my
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favorite quotes on your Instagram, which is my Angelo. We
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may encounter many defeats, but we may not. We must
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not be defeated. I tell myself that all the time.
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But the other thing she said is people remember how
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you make them feel right, not what you said, but
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how write right exactly exactly.
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And that's actually one of my favorites from her because
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it's true. Like again, working with small business owners or entrepreneurs,
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I tell me, you know, don't worry about spending all
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that money on websites and this and that, it's really
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about the feeling that you leave with a customer that
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allows them to come back to you. That's that's the value.
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And it's again going back to just even in our
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daily relationships, it's the people that listen to us. It's
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the people that hear us and understand us and invest
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in us as humans that we feel the most comfortable with,
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that we trust the most, that even when things get hard,
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that you're going back to that person because because.
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There is a sense of connection and investment in the
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humanity of it. And that's you know, and again.
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You being your authentic self makes you more empowered to
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do so it's not you're not performing, you're not memorizing lines,
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you're just presence, you know what I mean.
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And I think what's key about that is a lot
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of time, at least for me, a lot of times
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when people are trying to convince you of something or
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negotiate with you, and they do that human connection thing
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in a phony way. It can have just the opposite,
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you know, affact, Hey.
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How about those fakers?
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You know?
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Right? Right? Yeah, and it is it's like buying a
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youth car, right, It's like you know, I got something
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for you here. No, it's but you know that it's
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we know when somebody is being disingenuous because they haven't
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actually either either they're not paying attention to us, so
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they're not even hearing what you're saying, or they're distracted
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by their cell phone or text, or they haven't done
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their home their homework, right, don't talk to me about
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something that I don't even care about, or did you
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even hear what I just said to you? Did you
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even listen to my answer? Because we shut off when
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we know people don't care, and we know in authenticity
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when we see it, we're not stupid. So but that's
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why I'm saying. The work isn't actually being present, so
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you're actually hearing somebody, but it's also doing the homework
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to know.
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How to connect with this person and really build on that.
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Yeah, you know you say it's you say it's sometimes
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it's not about I mean, I'm looking at your Instagram
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and you say that sometimes it's not about just winning.
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You know, we think we think about these things in
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zero some What do you mean by that?
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First of all, I never use the words winning or
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losing because they mean different things to different people. And
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you know it's true because my winning may be different
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than somebody else is winning, right my if you're if
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you are somebody that values relationships, and and it's a
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quote quote people, please, your version of winning means both
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sides are happy. To somebody that is more competitive, that
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may not be their definition of winning.
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So winning means different things. But the other part of
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this is the negotiations that the more difficult and yet
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most enjoyable to me. Part of the negotiations is when
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we do this dance that allows us to find places
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where we can compromise, where I'm not giving up the
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most important thing that for me, and you're not giving
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up the most important thing to you. But yet we
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find places where we can compromise and give in a
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way that doesn't feel like, you know, a burden to us,
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and yet feels like, well, you know what, if this
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is what means means the most to you, then great,
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here you go.
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This is what I'm looking for.
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Can we find a way that we can problem solve
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to make this possible for both of us and negotiations
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at the end of the day. To me is really
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this notion of problem solving, not not win lose, but
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finding a.
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Place where we can create these sort of opportunities.
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That are win win. And that's again that's not easy.
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It requires commitment, requires time, it requires understanding, but it
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also allows again going back to that my end. Look, well,
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it gives you this this feeling of I really enjoyed
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doing this with us person. They weren't trying to crush me.
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We were trying to find a way to actually not
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only continue this conversation, but find ways that are beneficial
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for both of us.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I Also I'm reading something here that
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I found quite compelling, which is that when leaders learn
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to take the signals from their nervous systems and from
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their you know, non logical signals coming from their body
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as information rather than interference, they will be a lot
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more successful. It sounds very fairy, but also like really smart.
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It is. It's like, you know, sometimes when I'm teaching,
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I go, I do a lot around manifestation and mindset,
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and I'm like, before we go there, I know this
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may sound very like non Wharton like, but I'm not
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here to talk to you from sort of non human terms.
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I'm here to connect all of these things together. Because
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we are human. We have emotions, we have feelings, we
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we have a nervous system, we have you know, we
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have energy that we carry with us. We have energy
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that we we accept from other people, whether for the
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good or for the bad. Right and when we are
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let's say, let's say, when we get better sleep, when
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we are less stressed, when we have a clearer mind,
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we can make better decisions. When we are burdened, when
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we are stressed, when we are actually not well physically,
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those are the things that actually don't.
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Allow us to make better decisions.
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We're tired, we're burned out, we're overwhelmed, and so our
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minds and bodies really sort of sit together when it comes.
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To negotiations and decision making.
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You can't separate the two. And that's why for everybody
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out there who's experiencing burnout, who is feeling incredibly stressed
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and fearsome, these days because there's so much going on
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around us. Understanding that where you create boundaries, where you
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bring clarity for yourself, where.
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You take those mental and physical breaks, it's really really
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important because.
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Not only is it good for you physically, but it's
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also great for you emotionally and spiritually and makes you
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a better leader, makes you a better partner, makes you
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a better parent, makes you a better decision maker.
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Absolutely more to Hairport is our guests. Bring Yourself How
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to Negotiate Fearlessly continues after News, Traffic and sports only here.
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She's been on Forbes, Inc, Magazine, LinkedIn, Top Voices, Marketplace, Money,
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The Next Chapter, ESPN, and and many more. And she
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is on faculty Wharton. She also has a book that
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we all need to read called Bring Yourself, How to
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Negotiate Fearlessly. And when you were talking about this zero
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sumthing that we get into, you know, sort of the
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predatory negotiator, stomp them out, leave no doubt, win or
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takes all kind of mentality, I was thinking about our relationships,
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our personal relationships love parent, child, even parent teacher or
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I mean child teacher relationships. And if we I think
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it sounds like if we took more of the approach
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that you're you're describing, we would have happier personal relationships,
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not just business relationships.
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Yeah. And you know, honestly, if you think about zero
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some relationship, if you win the deal and lose the relationship,
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you didn't win, And you know what I mean, and
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the person we always think about even in arguments and
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what have you, like, I have to be right, but
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what does that really mean in a course of a
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long term relationship. And honestly, if we could just rethink
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about these things, complex will be reduced. If you start
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thinking about this as more of a collaboration, then you know,
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I have to be right. Well, if you just sit
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back and think, well, what is me being right every time?
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Actually do the to the person that's sitting across from me,
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due to my spouse, or to a friend or a
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family member. That does not That is not foundation for
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long term relationships. That instead is setting up setting the
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grounds for long term resentment. You know, we wonder why
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people get divorces. It's because these conversations aren't had in
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a way that says, let me really hear you, I
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want you to hear me. Let's figure out where we're
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missing one another. That takes empathy and understanding, not how
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am I going to beat you? How am I going
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to be right? And by the way, if we think
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we're right every time, we're actually wrong, because there's no
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way you know that you can know everything. It's if
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you walk through this earth thinking you know everything, is
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opposed to walking through this earth with curiosity and empathy,
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that that leads to a very unfulfilled and unhappy life.
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Yeah, it's one of my favorite yng levan Zant quotes.
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She says, would you rather be right or would you
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rather be happy?
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Exactly?
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Exactly?
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It's absolutely true.
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And I have to remind myself. What about negotiating with ourselves?
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I think the capacity for self deception is so high?
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Yes, yes, because oh, there's so many things to us right,
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I always say, the hardest negotiations that I have are
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often with myself. Yeah, giving ourselves compassion, listening to our bodies,
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understanding our own value, dignifying ourselves with time attention, knowing
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what we want and why we deserve it. I mean,
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those two things are really so hard for people to
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wrap their heads around because we don't really spend time
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in introspection and really understanding ourselves. We don't carve out
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that space. It's funny because COVID everybody was in their
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heads right we weren't going anywhere we were And people
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are like, oh my god, I didn't know this about myself.
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You know, well you didn't because it was always go, go, go,
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and even give yourself that space every day to check
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in with yourself and whether it's you know again, I
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work with a lot of entrepreneurs. I myself on this category.
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You know, I wouldn't make time for illnesses like I
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don't have time for that right now. Well, your body
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is saying no, you will make time. And if you
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don't listen, I'm gonna scream. And when that happens, you
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bring down. I mean, there's so little of you left.
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And so if we just actually spent the time checking
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in with ourselves every day, where are you? Are you happy?
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Are you doing what you're supposed to be doing? How
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do you feel? You know again, connecting that mind heart,
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a connection that you really allowed you to feed you
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more information? You know, that is so important. That's the
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negotiations in and of itself. Making the space to do
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that is as important as anything else in your life.
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So what is that work that we have to do.
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I mean, whether we're negotiating with especially negotiating with ourselves,
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but negotiating anywhere, what is the work we have to
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do on ourselves to be read? I need to show
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up and be present and listen and you know, be
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compassionate and empathetic.
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That's a few things I think that again, you can't
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do any of that if you're distracted. In these days
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that distractions come from everywhere. Right, I've reduced my I'm
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on a news diet. I always say. I live in DC,
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so news is unavoidable, but it gives me so much
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physical and mental and spiritual stress that I just shut
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it off and I spend that time doing things that
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I really enjoy, whether it's just going outside for a
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quick walk because I'm feeling very stressed, or turning on
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music which is very sort of even spiritually like redeeming
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for me. You know, I'd rather be in that space
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where I'm happy and lifted as opposed to drowned out
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in news that is that feels like it's disintegrating my soul.
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You know that it really is pulling me in all
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different places. That is bring me no joy, So creating
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that space where whether it's five minutes, it's ten minutes,
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it's a half an hour. Really those breaks that you
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take that cuts off everything else and allows you to
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stay in a place where you're hearing yourself and you're
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connecting with yourself and you feel it a place of peace,
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really really important. And these days, I understand even five
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00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:25.200
minutes may feel like a lot sometimes when you're ripping
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and roaring.
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In twenty thousand directions, but it's so necessary.
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And then the other part of that is is actually
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spending the time in conversation with yourself, particularly if you're
447
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going into negotiations or a hard conversation and knowing what
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your values are. I always say those are your non negotiables.
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What is the last time you could really ask yourself,
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what is it that I really want? What is it
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that that's really important to me? That I can't negotiate away?
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Where are my boundaries? And if you don't have those
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conversations with yourself, it's actually not something you can you
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can quickly, you know, go to because you don't understand
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that you haven't had that conversation with yourself, you haven't
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even reflected on it. So how do you have a
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00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:16.119
hard negotiations or a hard negotiation, a conversation with someone
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00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:19.640
and don't even know what your stand for. You don't
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00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:21.599
even know what it is that you want.
460
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To get out of this conversation.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah, I absolutely do. I was reading the re reading
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the four Agreements, and one of the things that I
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00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.599
missed the first time was ask yourself questions like you
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don't even you don't even know your position, So how
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are you going to listen to someone else's position? It
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makes sense I'm in here negotiating, but I don't know
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what I want. That sounds like an exercise in futility.
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Absolutely. And you know, even even with salary conversations, compensation conversations,
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you know, we're so focused on the dollar amount sometimes
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that we don't even think, well, if I got to
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hire a salary would I would I be happy in that? Up? Well,
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is it other things that I want? Is it time
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off that I want? Is it do I want to
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go back to school? And that's what I really want
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to ask them for. But if you can't have those
477
00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:16.480
conversations again with yourself and be really clear, then you're fighting.
478
00:28:16.119 --> 00:28:18.200
For something you don't not you don't even.
479
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:23.200
Want to fight for right and and that's that's absolutely
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the truth of it. It feels really simple right when
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you say it out loud, but because we were like, oh,
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that's easy, but is it really You haven't parked at
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the time.
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Have you really asked yourself what it would take to
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make you happy and in the job, in the relationship,
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in life. And that's why I love the conversation about
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persistence versus purpose.
488
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:51.039
Right, yes, yes, And I want you to actually speak
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to that a little bit more because now that you
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just said that, I'm going back to the four agreements. Okay,
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tell me a little bit more.
492
00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:59.480
Well, I'm really basing it on what you're saying, what
493
00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:01.880
you said, which is kind of like we get on
494
00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:04.440
we can get on this hamster wheel. Well, you know,
495
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:06.839
I know I want that, you know, not even I know.
496
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.000
It's like that's my goal, that's my goal. That's my goal.
497
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:11.079
I want to make. I want to make six figures. Right,
498
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:13.640
I'm going to be, you know, coach of the Year
499
00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:15.759
or whatever it is. And we've been chasing it for
500
00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:18.440
so long that we forget to check in and say, well,
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00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:22.440
is this my purpose? Am I in alignment with is
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00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:25.359
you know, is this coming with God's blessings? Do I
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00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:29.079
even want this anymore? Or, as my late friend Jim
504
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:30.839
Brown used to say, am I willing to pay the
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00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:32.000
cost to be the boss?
506
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:40.039
You know? Exactly exactly, And we're almost almost pre programmed,
507
00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:45.559
if you will, And we associate certain things with for example,
508
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:49.880
what success means, right, right, And that's why that's why
509
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:52.079
people get all the success of the world. They get
510
00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:55.160
the position, they get the accolades, and yet they still
511
00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:59.480
find themselves unhappy. It's because what they were thinking they
512
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:02.519
should be striving for wasn't, like you just said, in
513
00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:06.519
alignment with their spirit. It wasn't in aligned, in alignment
514
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:09.119
with their values. It wasn't even aligned with where they
515
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:12.480
are in life today as opposed to where they were
516
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:15.160
maybe like fifteen years ago when they set out on
517
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:16.720
this path. Right.
518
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:20.319
Yes, absolutely, And we always say and we always talk about, like,
519
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:22.960
you know, again, the four agreements, the notion of like.
520
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:23.839
Don't make assumptions.
521
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:27.279
We make a lot of assumptions about how we're supposed
522
00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:29.720
to show up in this world. But what we don't
523
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:31.920
do is check in with ourselves and say, but is
524
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:34.720
that what makes you happy? Is that what you actually
525
00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:41.079
want or or have you forgotten to make that connection
526
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:43.839
in so long that now that you're here, you're miserable
527
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:48.720
and really sitting with yourself allows you to do that dominique,
528
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:50.440
and we just don't give ourselves that space.
529
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:55.039
Yeah, yeah, you know it again. It sounds airy fairy,
530
00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:57.920
but for me, just even of five, ten, fifteen minutes
531
00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:01.279
of meditation every day, I don't know why it helps,
532
00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:04.720
but it seems to help, so I do it. Whatever
533
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:07.480
that is. You know, for those of us who like
534
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:10.319
to go a thousand miles an hour whatever that is,
535
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:14.200
to slow down, it seems to help the brain, the body,
536
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:14.599
and the.
537
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:19.839
Spirit absolutely, and meditation is tough for some people. It
538
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:23.319
really is, me included, because my head is going a
539
00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:25.079
million miles on aro. And I used to think what
540
00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:29.480
meditation meant was to don't think about anything that's impossible
541
00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:37.279
but impossible. But things like breathing, not meique, are so important,
542
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:40.599
just to oxygen that your brain gets and sitting there
543
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:43.279
and taking you know, five deep breasts like it doesn't
544
00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:47.359
have to be a big commitment, right, it just means
545
00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:52.079
stop your body is talking to you. Stop. You're on
546
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:56.240
automatic you're running on auto drive, and you don't even
547
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:58.680
know where you're going, Like, you know, just just sit
548
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:02.519
still for for a few minutes and breathe, breathe deeply,
549
00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:05.400
and maybe just go instead of you don't have to
550
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:07.200
go on a five mile walk. You can just walk
551
00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:10.559
around your block for a moment and be a nature
552
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:16.799
and and just give your body something else to feel
553
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:20.440
and see and just that change of environment sometimes is
554
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:22.920
what you need. But you have to be aware that
555
00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:25.319
you need it, otherwise you just keep going.
556
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:30.160
Yeah, that's right. Well, more to her poor is our
557
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:37.240
guests Bring Yourself how to Negotiate Fearlessly, The fearlessly part
558
00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:39.440
I want to talk about a little bit more when
559
00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:43.559
we come forward on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. Well, I'm
560
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:48.319
feeling a lot more confident about just whatever I have
561
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:51.359
to negotiate, whether it's with myself, my family, or in
562
00:32:51.400 --> 00:32:55.319
business after this short conversation, so not that short. Thank
563
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:57.839
you for spending the hour with us. More in terror
564
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:01.359
port to tell us how to follow you to obviously,
565
00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:03.680
other than going and buying the book Bring Yourself how
566
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:06.920
to Negotiate Fearlessly, which I seems like a great start,
567
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:08.480
But how else shall we follow you?
568
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:17.279
So actually, my website is probably the most resourceful place
569
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:20.119
where you can go because it's all my blogs, all
570
00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:23.119
my newsletters are there. I've done probably over one hundred
571
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:27.920
podcasts with different topics, so it's all there on my
572
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:30.319
website that's just more into Harryport dot com. But I'm
573
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:34.759
on LinkedIn, I'm on Instagram, and obviously the book you
574
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.920
can find anywhere where you buy books. So I'm around,
575
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:41.119
I'm just about everywhere.
576
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:45.720
You're everywhere all at once, and yet you're present and mindful.
577
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:49.799
Talk to me about the fearlessly part. I think one
578
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:54.240
of the biggest things that makes negotiation tough, especially in
579
00:33:54.279 --> 00:33:57.440
the workplace or in the marketplace, at least for me,
580
00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:01.200
is fear. Fear of going too far, fear of not
581
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:04.160
going far enough, fear of being embarrassed, fear of not
582
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:06.599
knowing what I'm doing, whatever it might be.
583
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:14.360
Right. So, first, I don't believe that when I say,
584
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.960
you know, I use fearlessly.
585
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:19.039
In the sentence with negotiations, it.
586
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:25.440
Doesn't mean that you lack the anxiety or the fear
587
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:30.960
of starting these conversations, you know. It's I acknowledge that
588
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:34.159
there's a lot of anxiety when people hear the word negotiations.
589
00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:36.239
They're like, oh my god, I'm so bad at it,
590
00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:38.440
I just don't even want to do it, or oh
591
00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:39.800
my god, if I do it, what if they think
592
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:41.559
I'm greedy, particularly women.
593
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:45.480
Or you know, I don't want to ruin this relationship, or.
594
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:47.400
I don't like conflicts, so I don't want to negotiate.
595
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:51.639
The truth is, if you know there is anxiety, you know, anytime,
596
00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:56.119
particularly if there's a transaction to be dealt with, money
597
00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:59.480
is a very hard conversation for people to have and
598
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:03.639
sleep to negotiate around. So I think it takes reframing
599
00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:06.400
if we start thinking stop thinking.
600
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:08.159
About negotiations again as that sort of.
601
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:11.400
One lose proposition that somebody's gonna walk away unhappy, and
602
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:14.800
instead think about it as we're just problem solving. We're
603
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:17.599
going to have a conversation. And you know, some conversations
604
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:21.239
are hard and some are easier, but all this is
605
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:23.719
is a conversation. And at the end of the day,
606
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:27.239
if I don't engage in this conversation, the answer is
607
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:30.880
always know, if I don't engage in this conversation, I
608
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:34.280
will never get what I'm what I'm looking for. And
609
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:38.440
so because I'm ignoring it actually puts me in a
610
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:41.079
place where I will regret not having done it. You know,
611
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:43.239
we regret all the studies show us we regret the
612
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.519
things that we don't do more than the things that
613
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:48.960
we do. And maybe it doesn't go our way. And
614
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:53.440
so you know, asking is the first step. Yeah, and
615
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:54.760
it's a necessary step.
616
00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:58.679
I want to circle back quickly to something you said
617
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:02.000
earlier in the conversation that kind of flew by, which is,
618
00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:05.239
you know, your the thing that makes you uniquely you
619
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:10.079
can be your strength in a negotiation. And I would imagine,
620
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:12.440
and this is a question, even if it doesn't sound
621
00:36:12.519 --> 00:36:16.039
like one, that that includes things that are generally considered
622
00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:19.119
by ourselves or others to be flaws in ourselves.
623
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:29.440
We'll all laws and I think I think the notion
624
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:32.079
of and again this was really early in our conversation today,
625
00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:36.880
which is what is a negotiator, a skilled negotiator or
626
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:40.639
a successful negotiator? Look like, what are those characteristics? And
627
00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:44.559
the truth is there isn't one model. The truth is
628
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:47.559
that we're trying to live up to this person or
629
00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:50.559
trying to speak in a way or bring different attributes
630
00:36:50.599 --> 00:36:55.000
to the table that aren't ours. That it really is
631
00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:00.559
a performance, you know, and and when we are performing, we.
632
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:03.159
Are not present because we're constantly.
633
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:04.400
Thinking in our heads. Was that what I was supposed
634
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:06.400
to say? Or how am I supposed to say this
635
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:09.119
other thing? Or you know, and and I know, you know,
636
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:12.679
you walk into negotiations again. Women go through this a lot.
637
00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:14.960
What am I supposed to be wearing? Am I supposed
638
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:15.320
to smile?
639
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:16.400
Am I supposed to not smile?
640
00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:18.360
Or should I be leaning in? Should I leaning be
641
00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:21.840
leaning back? There's this concept of mirroring that people talk
642
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:24.920
about negotiations, which I don't subscribe to at all. And
643
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:26.960
all that means is when they lean in, you lean in.
644
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:29.159
When they smile, you smile. That is the furthest thing
645
00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:34.239
from being authentic. This is a performance and it's exhausting.
646
00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:37.039
It is exhausting, and we can't you know what I mean,
647
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:38.320
we can't think clearly.
648
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:40.960
So I mean the reason I'm cracking up is because
649
00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:42.559
it sounds like you're in the middle of the negotiation
650
00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:44.360
going who am I supposed to be?
651
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:49.199
Like exactly that's historically and it's like and it's like,
652
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:51.920
by the way, it's like you know, the Goldilock syndrome, right,
653
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:54.800
Like you're supposed to smile, but don't fill too much.
654
00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:58.480
You're supposed to sort of lean into a conversation. Don't
655
00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:00.840
lean in too hard because they made and you're aggressive,
656
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:04.679
and it's it's it's a full choice. So I always say,
657
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:08.039
the easiest person for you to be is yourself, the
658
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:13.800
one that requires the least amount of memorization and performance.
659
00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:19.199
Is you being yourself? Now, do you want to show
660
00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.599
up and be successful in negotiations? Yes, And of course
661
00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:26.840
that requires things like preparation. That requires you being fully
662
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:29.679
present and not distracted. That requires you putting your phone
663
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:34.159
away so your mind doesn't go somewhere else. That requires
664
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:38.360
you to be curious, That requires you to ask questions.
665
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:40.840
So all those things are true, but none of those
666
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:46.159
things are performance. And you know the risk of authenticity
667
00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:51.199
is vulnerability, and if that's the biggest risk that you're taking,
668
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:56.000
well great, because what that means is that you're actually
669
00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:58.960
connected to the person, and you're connected, you're better connected
670
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:02.400
with yourself, and I think that's really important.
671
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:07.199
It will leave you feeling a lot more empowered and
672
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:11.440
I'm a lot more fulfilled when you know that you
673
00:39:11.559 --> 00:39:13.719
are presenting as.
674
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:17.039
Yourself as opposed to pretending to be somebody that you're
675
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:19.360
not and then at the end not doing well anyway,
676
00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:23.400
and that just you feel like a deer in headlights.
677
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:25.320
And that's that's not a great feeling.
678
00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:28.400
I mean, honestly, if I when I'm hearing you say that,
679
00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:31.880
we are just diluting ourselves because we're vulnerable even when
680
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:36.119
we're being phony, we just you know, have we we
681
00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:38.960
have protected ourselves. But you still didn't get the job,
682
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:42.119
the raise, the whatever, So you were still vulnerable. You
683
00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:45.480
were just vulnerable while wearing a mask, if that makes
684
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:50.199
any sense exactly. Mary's Harbor to hare Port. Thank you
685
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:52.639
so much for spending the hour with us. This has
686
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:56.360
been a very inspiring conversation. I can't wait to read more.
687
00:39:58.039 --> 00:39:58.880
Thank you so much.
688
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:02.320
This has been a great conversation and I appreciate you, and.
689
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:05.920
I appreciate you as well. For women, we it's time
690
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:09.480
for us to come up out of those those parts
691
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:12.639
of the gender expectations that hold us back. And this
692
00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:16.840
sounds like one great step towards that. Speaking of great women,
693
00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:20.400
Nina Turner will be featured next hour as well. New
694
00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:26.159
York Times writer Jimlboy jam Pack show Straight Ahead, don't
695
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:28.880
forget to Tap in with Me on social media. I'm
696
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:32.320
at Daprima Radio like my mama. The late great Poet
697
00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:36.280
Laureate of San Francisco, Diane da Prima, used to say,
698
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:42.440
the ultimate famine is the starvation of the imagination. Until tomorrow,
699
00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:45.599
my KBLA delegation, One Love,
