Open Water Swimming for Beginners with Author Hilary Topper Ep 164

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All right, welcome back to the Find Your Edge podcast.
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I am your host, Coach Chris Newport, and I have a guest who is back again with another book.
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Hillary Topper.
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Welcome back to the show.
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Another book about Traplon.
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I love it.
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How's it going?
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Thank you.
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Thank you so much for having me, Chris.
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Oh, it's going good.
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It's it's a little bit, it's a little busy over here, but otherwise it's good.
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I cannot imagine.
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Okay, so this is your third book.
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The first one was Couch to Triathlete, right?
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It was called, yeah, From Couch Potato to Endurance Athlete, a portrait of a non-athletic triathlete.
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That was um more of a memoir of a 10-year journey from me like not doing anything until I was like 53, and then getting into triathlons and all the adventures and everything in between with life and all that.
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Yeah, it's so cool.
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Okay, and then the second book, which I'll be sure to link to below, that was what we had our session on, so which was a great book.
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So tell us about that, and then we're gonna get to Yeah.
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So that was called Unlocking the Triathlon, and that was the beginner's guide to competing in a triathlon.
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And it gives you like all the nuts and bolts you need, you know, besides having a coach, of course.
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Right, you know, but getting but having that in your we all have to start somewhere, and we're all the natural start is not always gonna be, and probably most people will not always be with a coach.
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You know, it's interesting, Chris, because when I first started in triathlon, my my running buddy, you know, we had we had um run the Brooklyn half marathon, and she said, I don't want to do this anymore.
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And I said, Let's do a triathlon, not knowing that it was a swim bike run, not knowing that I had to learn how to swim, you know, all of that.
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So um, you know, at that time she was like, Oh, we have to get a coach.
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There's just there's no questions about it.
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And I thought that was like the norm to get a coach.
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Yeah, but as I'm learning and as I'm seeing and as I'm volunteering at some of these races, I'm realizing a lot of people don't have coaches, they just wing it.
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Yeah, you know, they'll sign up for a 70.3 and that'll be their first triathlon, one and done, you know?
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Or one and then they call us.
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That's when they're like, okay, that was really hard.
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I got my rear end kicked, and I don't want it to be that hard.
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And because this is so challenging and rewarding, and that's when that's when they call us and like, please, can you help me not die again?
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And they look, some of them look really like they were gonna die after like a sprint triathlon.
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I'm like, oh my God.
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My preferred mode of triathlon is off-road, and I've even run into experienced on-road triathlons at an off-road triathlon, and they're like, I've never mountain bike before.
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I'm like, what?
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So, you know, but we all that I I don't know.
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I I think sometimes when you fumble through things, that's when you're like, oh, okay, maybe I need a little support.
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But again, when I started in the sport, I was going, I was pulling all the books off the shelves, like diving into all the training plans and like what do I wear?
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I mean, you know, so your book is so valuable for everybody.
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So many questions.
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Yes, for sure.
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A hundred percent.
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And the thing of my uh about the book that really makes me very proud is that it talks to anybody, like anybody could pick it up and say, Oh, I could do a triathlon.
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Like it's not just for these, you know, buff athletes, you know, it could anybody could do it.
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Totally.
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I I a hundred percent agree.
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And if you are listening to this and you are like, oh, I have a neighbor who I would love to do a triathlon with, but she poo-poos the bike, or he doesn't think that he can swim or whatever.
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Like that this that book is a hundred percent for them.
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Yeah, it is it is totally possible.
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Absolutely, absolutely.
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I wish that was around when I was you know, I didn't want to just I wish I had my own book.
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That would have been okay.
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Yes, absolutely.
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Okay, and your third book, this is the most recent one.
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It like literally just hit the books.
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Just hit the books in the stores.
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And it's um it's called Unlocking the Open Water Swim, and it's the beginner's guide to success in open water events.
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So this book is for triathletes, right, who maybe want to do um a 70.3 or a full Iron Man, but they feel like they're, you know, this is the weakest leg and they're not really sure how to do it.
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Or maybe it's a pool swimmer who says, you know, I'd like to go tap into the open water and do something a little bit, you know, outside my comfort zone.
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Or it's for a beginner triathlete who, you know, is doing a sprint triathlon.
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I do have training plans in here, and the training plans are more for, you know, the half R-man, R man, you know, 5K swim, 10k swim.
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Ooh, okay, going big.
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Yeah, going big.
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Yeah, yeah.
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You know, I mean, and the thing about the open water for me, uh, you know, I just started swimming at 53.
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So, you know, I I've only been swimming about 10, 11 years at this point.
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And there's something to me when I go into the open water, it's so special.
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Like I feel like there's this freedom that I don't get anywhere else.
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I mean, I get it a little bit on the bike, but this is much more like you could just go anywhere.
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There's no black lines, you could just do what you love to do and get out there and be in your happy place.
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Yeah, totally.
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But that's not that's not the case for a lot of people.
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No, I think that that is um, I mean, I'd have to look at some of the data, but I would argue that that's probably one of the number one reasons why people don't get into DRAFON.
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A hundred percent agree with you.
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A hundred percent agree that they're nervous, that they panic, that maybe they didn't have access to the water when they were growing up.
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Um, maybe something happened to them as a little child.
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You know, I have a story in the book about this woman, Melissa, who was actually in my swim group.
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She was in my course.
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Yeah.
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And um sh I didn't know this at the time.
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She told me this later, like a couple of years later, yeah.
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That she, you know, was a swimmer as a child, but when she went with her husband on um uh vacation, they were he talked her into going diving, and she had a panic attack with the tube in her mouth, you know, when she went down, and she would never get she wouldn't go back in the water.
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And, you know, and then she, I mean, it wasn't really, you know, made me feel good.
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She she joined my group and we started out really, really slow, like behind the ropes, you know, just get used to the water.
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And every time that we met, we built up to the point where at the end of the session everybody swam a mile, and she was I can't even believe how kicked butt she was.
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I she was fantastic, she really was swimming fast, and you know, it you'd never know that she had this fear inside of her, you know.
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Yeah, definitely.
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I mean, and that that's why I do what I do, because you see grown adults who are literally terrified like a child, and that is a very vulnerable place to be.
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I mean, I know you were saying get out of your comfort zone.
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That's terrifying for a lot of people to to be like I literally feel like I might die.
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Yeah, and I usually am joking with people like please don't say that, but that that's how they that's how they feel.
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Like it's it can be incredibly intense and terrifying to go from that to holy smokes, I just did a triad on in the open water, it is next level mind-blowing, life transforming.
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Absolutely.
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You have to do it, like you have to get Hillary's book, you have to find a group that you can train with, and get over it because you can, and it is it's so transformative.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah, so you know, so in the book, right?
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I talk about you know, going from the pool to the open water, like what kind of drills you should do in the pool, you know, things like that.
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Like it I get very granular.
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I mean, I do talk also about some zones and stuff like that and kind of pick up speed, but then I also go into like adventure swimming versus competitive swimming, right?
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Yeah.
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And I really enjoy the adventure swimming.
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Like I I just did uh last year, I swam around Mackinac Island in Michigan.
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It was an 8.2 mile swim, okay?
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And it's it's current, like you know, it's in a lake, but you know, you're getting the current because there's a lot of um the big great lakes, they're they're they're next to each other, you know.
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I think it's you know, so so you get that like turbulence going.
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And um that was an adventure swim, you know, it wasn't timed.
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I mean, they did say you have up to a certain amount of time to finish it, but it was plenty of, I mean, I think it was like they gave they gave everybody eight hours.
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It was plenty of time to do 8.3 miles, you know, 8.2 miles.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And um, you know, I mean, it was it was really well organized and amazing experience, you know, for somebody like me.
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I mean, when I was 53, I hired a coach and he said, You have to take a master.
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Well, first he tells me I should get in the pool and swim 1600 yards.
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1600 yards.
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I was like, I don't even think I could swim 25 yards, you know.
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And I couldn't skip me to the wall.
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I couldn't, really.
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So um, so then I um he said, Well, you have to join a master swim class.
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So I did, and I just couldn't get across the pool like I was throwing up.
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I the the the water was going up my sinuses.
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I mean, it was like I was a mess.
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And the lifeguard jumped in the water with me, and he says, Come on, let's blow bubbles, you know.
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So, so just you know, visualize like here is a person that like almost 10 years ago, I didn't even know how to swim.
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And last year I swam 8.2 miles, you know.
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I mean, so so what I'm trying to say is not that I'm so great, but that anybody could do this.
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Yes, it's totally possible.
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Wow, that is that's so awesome.
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So, again, going from nothing to open water is totally possible.
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Totally doable, totally possible.
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You can't think, oh my god, there's like fish in the water or there's sharks in the water or whatever, trout or like, are there alligators?
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I'm like, no.
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In Florida, diff be a different conversation.
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Like it depends on where you are.
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It does, but not at least not here in north in the central North Carolina.
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You are not gonna have alligators.
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But people have legitimate fears, yeah, right?
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Of are there are there fish in the water?
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Absolutely.
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Do they want to have anything to do with you?
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No, unless you stand still, and then they're gonna be like, what are you?
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And then they're gonna take a little nibble and be like, nah, I'm good.
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Or the little cramps, you know, the little cramps they nibble on your toes.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Um, but I mean that's a good segue.
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Like, there are things in the water.
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So uh do you have anything of uh whether in the book or just in general, of how to overcome that fear of the creepy crawlies?
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Yeah, I mean, so a lot of so I have like a you know, a couple actually a couple of chapters on this, like on the whole mental thing, you know.
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And you know, it it it gets to a point where you first need to visualize yourself swimming out, just not even like in your home here, lying in bed, just think about yourself, visualize yourself swimming, and then once you're in the water, just take it nice and slow and just look around and experience the beauty of nature because it's gorgeous, it really is gorgeous.
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I mean, we are so blessed to live on the east coast.
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I mean, I'm sure the west coast, they've got great beaches too, but on the east coast, we we just have so much water and it's so beautiful here.
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Um, you know, and and I have a whole like checklist of what to do and how to, you know, how to kind of overcome that.
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And, you know, people have told me that it's really helped them, so that makes me feel really good, you know, and then I also have other like inspiring stories like throughout the book.
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I did it very similar to the triathlon book, Unlocking the Triathlon.
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I had a ton of stories, either elite athletes or or age groupers doing their first triathlon.
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In this book, it's more about like there was this one guy who lives in Egypt and he was a runner, and you know, they the doctors told him to stop running because of his knees and all of this, and he's they said, you know, get in the pool, you'll love it.
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And he ends up getting in the pool, and somebody told him about an open water event, and you know, he didn't think he could do it, and then he did it, and you know, so it to me like these stories are so motivational.
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There's another woman in this book who did the 20 bridges around Manhattan.
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Oh my god, I think it's like 28.5 miles.
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That is nuts, yeah, you know, and she she just she had COVID.
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She like, I mean, like, what?
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You and she did it.
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Like she just, you know, to me, like seeing these people like who have the courage because that's that too is very scary.
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Swimming around Manhattan in that water, I don't know.
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You know, it's we could argue that's not so beautiful.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I mean, it looks pretty from well from afar, maybe not.
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Yeah, unless you go really close, right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it's it's a real thing.
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And um I d we do have folks at least locally who uh when they swim in open water, which I would I would much rather swim.
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I it this finally didn't dawn on me until probably about a year ago that of all three disciplines, I swim the least, and it is probably the lowest on my list, even though when I'm in the water, certainly in a race, I'm like, oh, I love this.
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This is so great.
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And it finally dawned on me that I just don't like swimming inside in a pool.
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It's inside.
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The reason why I chose triathlon is because it's outside.
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I love that.
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So we have an outdoor pool.
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When I swim in the outdoor pool, I'm like, oh I do like this.
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Or swim in the open water, which is a little bit more logistically challenging because please, you guys don't swim by yourself.
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Right.
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You know, have a kayak or a paddle boarder, swim with friends, like you've got to have some sort of like backup plan.
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But uh Toboe.
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And it's an atoboy, yes, yes.
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Uh, so that you're visible to boats, to all the things, depending on where you're swimming.
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But swimming around Manhattan, that's next level.
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That's totally next level.
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Totally.
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I swim when I swim, and it's really funny because we swim at this place called Tobey Beach, uh, which is on the base side.
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So it's like very narrow inlet.
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You get like a bay on one side and the ocean on the other.
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So, and it feeds from the ocean.
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So you still have a lot of current there.
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It's not, but it's a little bit more protected.
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Anyway, so when I go and I swim, I swim with this huge duck.
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Okay, and I put all my stuff in there.
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Like I put my hydration in there.
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Uh snacks.
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Yeah.
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Snacks.
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Somebody said to me, I should I should just swim around and ask people, like, put beers in there and say, Yay.
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You can be like a roving, yeah, it's like a roving uh, you know, like drink business or something.
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Maybe I could make a little money on the side.
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Oh my goodness, that's so good.
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Yeah, so be visible, I think, is is certainly one of the tips.
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Do you have any other tips for folks who are you know, also know your limits.
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Like, you know, if you're tired or you feel like you just can't keep going, like don't push yourself, like get out of the water.
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Yeah.
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Um, you know, besides the toe buoy, I also like to wear like a bright swim cap so that I'm visible.
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Like that, I think is really important.
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You know, I think that a lot of people like to go in the water, in the cold water, you know, like now it's cold.
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Now we're we're getting, you know, it's no longer in the 70s anymore and the water we're getting in the 50s, like mid-50s here, you know, and it it's just gonna get colder.
00:19:14.530 --> 00:19:29.570
And some people go year-round, but for those, you know, like they moved Jones Beach, which is our big race over here, to the end of October, which is really gonna be freezing.
00:19:30.690 --> 00:19:32.850
It's gonna be, I mean, it was cold.
00:19:33.009 --> 00:19:38.210
I went out today, it was 45 degrees, it was cold, it was cold.
00:19:38.450 --> 00:19:38.850
Yeah.
00:19:39.009 --> 00:19:44.370
I mean, I was wearing a little down jacket and I was thinking, hmm, it's time for the winter coat, like literally.
00:19:44.610 --> 00:19:45.009
Yeah.
00:19:45.250 --> 00:19:49.330
So it just happened so fast because like last week was like 85.
00:19:49.570 --> 00:19:50.530
It's just nuts.
00:19:50.930 --> 00:19:54.530
I know this weather is so bananas, yeah.
00:19:55.009 --> 00:20:06.450
But though, but when you're swimming in the in the cold water, you know, like I was telling you earlier before the the interview that I was I volunteered this weekend at a triathlon.
00:20:06.530 --> 00:20:06.769
Yeah.
00:20:07.009 --> 00:20:20.290
And the uh open water segment was at in a pond in Montauk, which is all the way on the end of Long Island, and it's it's chilly out there, very chilly.
00:20:20.370 --> 00:20:22.930
Like it was it was 50 degrees when we got there.
00:20:23.090 --> 00:20:24.050
It was cold.
00:20:24.290 --> 00:20:24.610
Yeah.
00:20:25.090 --> 00:20:27.570
And to clarify, in the air, not in the water.
00:20:27.810 --> 00:20:29.170
No, yeah, exactly.
00:20:29.330 --> 00:20:30.850
The the air is cold.
00:20:31.090 --> 00:20:52.610
So, so um, I had, you know, so I was volunteering, I was walking around transition, and people were asking me, like one guy came up to me and he's just wearing like a little, you know, first of all, the tri-kit that he was wearing was too big for him, which I'm thinking to myself, like, oh yeah, yeah, you know, no, it should be skin tight, right?
00:20:52.690 --> 00:21:00.769
Yeah, but um, he says, you know, I don't have a wetsuit and I've haven't done open water swimming yet at this point.
00:21:01.490 --> 00:21:04.130
Uh and I said, Well, what did you sign up for?
00:21:04.210 --> 00:21:10.530
He said, Well, the sprint, he said, Do you think I should drop down to like a uh duathlon?
00:21:11.009 --> 00:21:13.970
And you know, I'm a little bit more conservative, right?
00:21:14.050 --> 00:21:15.810
So I told him, I said, you know what?
00:21:15.890 --> 00:21:26.690
I really think you should drop down to it because if you've never been in the open water and you don't have a wetsuit and the water is cold, it was like, you know, low 60s.
00:21:26.930 --> 00:21:28.050
That's very cold.
00:21:28.290 --> 00:21:28.450
Yeah.
00:21:28.769 --> 00:21:32.210
For never been on being in the open water and no wet suit.
00:21:32.610 --> 00:21:40.530
And and, you know, you could get that the a lot of a lot of these swimmers on these R Man events and stuff like that.
00:21:40.850 --> 00:21:51.570
Even we just had somebody who passed away during an Olympic event here on Long Island, and they had SIPE, which is swimming-induced pulmonary edema.
00:21:52.130 --> 00:21:54.210
And that comes from the cold.
00:21:54.530 --> 00:22:07.890
So the thing to do is to, you know, wet your face, wet your neck, make sure that you're acclimated to the water before you actually go in the water, you know, and I think that's, you know, a huge tip.
00:22:08.290 --> 00:22:23.090
If at any point you're in the water and you're swimming and you're choking, or you're like you feel like very phemmy, or you're like spitting up like a pink froth kind of thing, stop immediately.
00:22:23.250 --> 00:22:23.570
Yeah.
00:22:23.730 --> 00:22:24.050
Yeah.
00:22:24.370 --> 00:22:33.090
Cause that I I Just feel like people don't really know and they go and you're trained as lifeguards to look for that.
00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:38.690
If somebody ends up on your board or on your kayak doing that, that is an immediate you're out.
00:22:39.090 --> 00:22:39.410
Yeah.
00:22:39.730 --> 00:22:41.170
That's not the ambulance.
00:22:42.769 --> 00:22:43.250
Yeah.
00:22:43.490 --> 00:22:50.850
And that's not to scare people, but like sport is inherently has a uh inherent danger to it.
00:22:50.930 --> 00:22:57.810
And it doesn't matter whether you're doing triathlon or football or running or skateboarding or anything.
00:22:58.370 --> 00:23:11.490
Anything like it's just that's but the joy it brings you and the positive health effects that it can bring you far outweigh the dangerous pieces like that, but it's still necessary to be aware of it, right?
00:23:11.890 --> 00:23:13.250
100% agree.
00:23:13.490 --> 00:23:14.530
100% agree.
00:23:14.610 --> 00:23:23.490
I mean, I I just feel like, you know, what happens as athletes, we tend to push ourselves through the pain.
00:23:23.730 --> 00:23:35.890
You know, we we get some type of a pain when we're, you know, when we're biking, we feel it in our quads or our hamstrings or wherever, and we push through it.
00:23:36.130 --> 00:23:38.769
And that's what we tend to do.
00:23:39.330 --> 00:23:45.410
And you know, in this particular case, like pe don't push through something like this, you know.
00:23:45.650 --> 00:23:57.810
I mean, sometimes it depends on what it is, but if it's something serious and it's a little, it's completely outside of what you're ex you've ever experienced.
00:23:58.050 --> 00:23:58.690
Yeah.
00:23:59.330 --> 00:23:59.890
Caution there.
00:24:01.330 --> 00:24:10.690
I mean, it's it's uh it's hard to balance that sort of like um the David Goggins' messages.
00:24:10.850 --> 00:24:17.410
Um, and you know, I have nothing against him, but I it you have to balance what is it worth for you.
00:24:17.650 --> 00:24:18.050
Right.
00:24:18.290 --> 00:24:34.850
And um we all have a very unique journey and a unique path that we are here for, and sometimes DNF is part of that path and part of those lessons that we need to absorb and learn.
00:24:35.009 --> 00:24:39.410
But that does not make you any less of a human being or any less of an athlete.
00:24:39.730 --> 00:24:41.090
Absolutely, right?
00:24:41.570 --> 00:24:47.810
So yeah, I mean, I have a you know, I work with this guy who he's terrific.
00:24:47.890 --> 00:25:00.050
I mean, he keeps signing up for Iron Man, Eagle Man, and he keeps DNFing it, but he's gotten to the point where he goes through the swim, goes through the bike.
00:25:00.210 --> 00:25:01.410
I'm like, you know what?
00:25:01.650 --> 00:25:02.769
Just be proud of yourself.
00:25:02.850 --> 00:25:05.170
You got through two legs of this race.
00:25:05.490 --> 00:25:06.450
Be proud of yourself.
00:25:06.530 --> 00:25:09.410
Like that's it's a big deal.
00:25:09.810 --> 00:25:14.850
Yeah, I mean, it's look, we're all we're all in this together.
00:25:15.810 --> 00:25:23.810
Yes, you know it's the it's the courage to show up, the courage to to sign up and to do the work.
00:25:23.890 --> 00:25:26.130
And if that means you get across the finish line, great.
00:25:26.210 --> 00:25:27.490
If that means you don't, great.
00:25:27.970 --> 00:25:28.930
And it's okay.
00:25:29.330 --> 00:25:30.769
Yeah, it totally is.
00:25:31.090 --> 00:25:36.130
I I remember thinking like, oh, a DNF is like the worst thing that can ever happen.
00:25:36.370 --> 00:25:36.690
Yeah.
00:25:36.930 --> 00:25:44.930
You know, and then I realized I actually DNF'd one of my races, and it was like, okay, I didn't die, I'm okay.
00:25:45.170 --> 00:25:47.890
Yeah, yeah, totally.
00:25:48.210 --> 00:25:56.690
Um, let's talk about a little bit of a channel change of gear, because I know we've mentioned it a little bit, and you know, our little ducky behind you or your both.
00:25:57.170 --> 00:25:57.890
Oh my duck.
00:25:58.370 --> 00:25:59.170
Wetsuits.
00:25:59.330 --> 00:25:59.650
Yes.
00:25:59.970 --> 00:26:13.090
Like there are, I feel like this is a this is an intense topic because it's not like, well, let me have to target and grab me a like there's there's can seem like there's a lot to it.
00:26:13.170 --> 00:26:15.970
So tell us what you have about wetsuits.
00:26:16.210 --> 00:26:19.490
Yeah, so I have a whole section about wetsuits in the book.
00:26:19.570 --> 00:26:22.050
You know, there are different types of wetsuits.
00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:28.290
I mean, I probably have more than many, which is what I've done.
00:26:28.610 --> 00:26:34.769
This is like this is like bikes in the you know, in the exactly, or sneakers, you know, you like have a million pairs of sneakers.
00:26:35.090 --> 00:26:35.250
True.
00:26:35.330 --> 00:26:38.210
I mean, like for me, I am in love with my shorty.
00:26:38.290 --> 00:26:41.330
My shorty is my favorite wetsuit, but I also live in the south.
00:26:41.490 --> 00:26:44.930
Hillary, I would probably not ever wear it if I lived where you lived.
00:26:45.090 --> 00:26:54.530
Yeah, no, I actually sleeveless is great, a long sleeve is great, I have sleeves, I have gloves, I have a cap, I don't have booties, but anyway, tell us about that.
00:26:54.850 --> 00:26:57.410
You need the booties, you need the booties when it's cold.
00:26:58.210 --> 00:26:58.610
Yeah.
00:26:58.850 --> 00:27:01.810
Um, you know, or when it's rocky, you know.
00:27:01.890 --> 00:27:03.009
I oh yeah, yeah.
00:27:03.170 --> 00:27:05.170
I I I wear them when it's rocky.
00:27:05.330 --> 00:27:07.810
I talk about all the different types, the shorty.
00:27:07.970 --> 00:27:09.170
I love the shorty too.
00:27:09.250 --> 00:27:11.650
That's no sleeve and short shorts.
00:27:11.890 --> 00:27:22.610
Some people even wear lava pants, you know, or lava shorts too, you know, when they swim, which I, you know, I I I'm not I don't feel comfortable with that.
00:27:22.690 --> 00:27:25.009
It's just to me, it's a little too low down.
00:27:25.330 --> 00:27:28.769
You know, they make them they make them kind of like low.
00:27:28.930 --> 00:27:33.730
Um and I'd prefer something that's just, you know, my whole suit.
00:27:33.970 --> 00:27:34.769
Your whole torso.
00:27:34.850 --> 00:27:35.009
Yeah.
00:27:35.170 --> 00:27:36.130
Yeah, exactly.
00:27:36.290 --> 00:27:39.170
But I would, I would I feel like that's more popular with men.
00:27:39.330 --> 00:27:43.410
I have zero data on that, other than what I've seen and what I've experienced.
00:27:43.650 --> 00:27:54.690
Men tend to uh yeah, as there's men who are getting into this sport oftentimes later in life, um, God love you, but uh sometimes you're a little more dense.
00:27:54.850 --> 00:27:56.850
Yeah, and you you sink a little bit more.
00:27:57.090 --> 00:27:57.410
Oh, yeah.
00:27:57.570 --> 00:28:00.530
You just need a little bit of a little bit of a lift in your hips.
00:28:00.610 --> 00:28:06.290
So lava shorts to explain real quickly what lava shorts is, because I feel like I'm talking to my son right now.
00:28:06.370 --> 00:28:11.890
Like the literal word of this does not sound anything like what it is.
00:28:13.410 --> 00:28:14.610
So explain that.
00:28:14.930 --> 00:28:23.090
Yeah, I mean, you know, you can you you there's a lot of different terminology, right, for it, like this, the lava shorts, there's a sim uh shorts there.
00:28:23.490 --> 00:28:32.450
Basically, what they are is they're made out of wetsuit material, and they are shorts that you wear that keep you buoyant.
00:28:32.690 --> 00:28:33.810
And you're right.
00:28:33.970 --> 00:28:46.050
I mean, I I know a lot of I train with a lot of guys, and they tend to sink in the pool, but in the open water, they wear their wetsuit, they're flying.
00:28:46.210 --> 00:28:47.410
I mean, it's it's insane.
00:28:47.810 --> 00:28:48.530
It's magical.
00:28:48.690 --> 00:28:49.250
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:49.570 --> 00:28:50.690
Wetsuits are so great.
00:28:50.850 --> 00:28:51.250
Yeah.
00:28:51.410 --> 00:28:53.090
I mean, for me, I don't know.
00:28:53.170 --> 00:28:55.410
It doesn't really do that much.
00:28:55.570 --> 00:28:59.810
I don't know because I'm pretty like level when I when it comes to the pool.
00:29:00.050 --> 00:29:00.290
Yeah.
00:29:00.530 --> 00:29:03.810
So, but for you gotta do some pillary, we gotta do some like time trials.
00:29:03.970 --> 00:29:05.170
You're gonna have to test it out.
00:29:05.490 --> 00:29:12.530
Although it's probably hard with like more current and things like that, is to try is it a one-to-one comparison?
00:29:13.090 --> 00:29:17.890
The problem, right, is that you know, what you said is that there is current.
00:29:18.050 --> 00:29:27.009
And, you know, I often and I actually have a chapter in the book about why is it that you swim faster in the pool than you do in the open water?
00:29:27.170 --> 00:29:33.410
You know, now some people do swim faster in the open water, but most I've not met many of them.
00:29:33.570 --> 00:29:34.210
Yeah.
00:29:34.690 --> 00:29:35.890
Most do not.
00:29:36.130 --> 00:29:36.530
Yeah.
00:29:36.690 --> 00:29:45.009
And and and that bothered me for a really long time because I would be like, you know, in the pool, I'd be like averaging like 150 or something like that.
00:29:45.090 --> 00:29:47.570
I mean, not a fast swimmer, but whatever.
00:29:47.810 --> 00:29:50.050
And a 150 to 100.
00:29:50.210 --> 00:29:55.009
And then in the open water, it would be like 215 or 230 to 100.
00:29:55.090 --> 00:29:56.210
And it's like, what?
00:29:56.450 --> 00:30:00.050
You know, like you start like thinking, like, what's going on here?
00:30:00.130 --> 00:30:01.009
Why is this happening?
00:30:01.090 --> 00:30:14.530
But it's it really has to do with the current, it has to do with uh the water temperature, it has to do with the stroke, you know, when to shorten your stroke, when to elongate your stroke.
00:30:14.610 --> 00:30:19.730
You know, there's so many different elements that are involved here.
00:30:19.970 --> 00:30:20.930
Yeah, cool.
00:30:21.090 --> 00:30:33.650
So it sounds like in the book you have led people who want to get into Trafalon, certainly some more long course kind of things, but also some open water long course.
00:30:33.890 --> 00:30:44.530
And then getting into all the gear aspects and um exactly stroke, all kinds of all kinds of fun stuff, and also like how to find events.
00:30:44.690 --> 00:30:49.009
I was thinking, oh, I really love swimming and I want to get into more swimming events.
00:30:49.250 --> 00:30:52.450
How do you how do you go about finding them?
00:30:52.610 --> 00:30:58.690
You know, so I have a whole chapter on that, like where to look, where to, you know, and that's and that's great.
00:30:58.850 --> 00:31:01.650
I've done um swim to the moon a couple of times.
00:31:01.730 --> 00:31:03.250
That's Eva Solomon.
00:31:03.330 --> 00:31:05.970
She's with Epic Races in Middle East.
00:31:06.130 --> 00:31:07.090
Oh, yeah, cool.
00:31:07.410 --> 00:31:10.769
Yeah, and that's a beautiful, beautiful swim.
00:31:10.930 --> 00:31:19.410
It's a lake swim, but it's got like connecting, it's it's got like little like tunnels and connectors to different lakes, you know.
00:31:20.450 --> 00:31:21.090
So cool.
00:31:21.410 --> 00:31:28.290
It's so beautiful, and that's like I've done that twice, and I absolutely love those swims.
00:31:28.930 --> 00:31:29.570
So cool.
00:31:29.730 --> 00:31:30.130
Yeah.
00:31:30.370 --> 00:31:41.490
So there's basically if you can get into open water swimming, you not only can unlock Triathon, but now you've got a whole nother world to explore.
00:31:41.650 --> 00:31:44.610
And we didn't even talk about swim run, you know, right?
00:31:44.769 --> 00:31:45.330
Exactly.
00:31:45.570 --> 00:31:46.690
Which is one of my favorites.
00:31:46.769 --> 00:31:50.130
But aqua bike, which or aquabike, yeah, yes.
00:31:50.530 --> 00:31:51.490
A lot of people do.
00:31:51.810 --> 00:31:52.130
Mm-hmm.
00:31:52.290 --> 00:31:54.290
Yeah, who are like, no, screw running.
00:31:54.370 --> 00:31:55.810
I don't want to ever do that.
00:31:56.370 --> 00:32:12.210
Um, so yeah, I it's it's a whole new world, and uh, which reminds me I crewed someone who did the alligator eight-mile swim down in uh like the keys area.
00:32:12.450 --> 00:32:17.890
Yeah, that was that was no joke for me on the kayak or the swimmer.
00:32:18.130 --> 00:32:19.810
Well, were you on the kayak or board?
00:32:20.050 --> 00:32:20.690
I was on the kayak.
00:32:20.850 --> 00:32:25.570
It was like a beautiful day to start with, and then you get out there and then things start to pick up.
00:32:26.769 --> 00:32:31.810
And then uh he was my swimmer was having kind of a rough time and then ended up having to get picked up.
00:32:31.890 --> 00:32:37.810
And in the meantime, you know, like dealing with the boats, and I did not take any tramine that morning.
00:32:37.890 --> 00:32:41.890
And so anyway, um, some fish got my breakfast.
00:32:42.050 --> 00:32:43.170
Uh, but it's fine.
00:32:43.250 --> 00:32:44.370
We all made it.
00:32:44.690 --> 00:32:47.250
See, we uh we all survived.
00:32:47.650 --> 00:32:53.570
So uh, you know, the life of a support crew, but yeah, man, that was that was no joke.
00:32:53.970 --> 00:32:58.050
I mean, oh there are a lot of those swims out there.
00:32:58.130 --> 00:33:03.490
Like somebody sent me, uh one of my swimmers sent me a swim from St.
00:33:03.810 --> 00:33:05.090
Lucia to St.
00:33:05.330 --> 00:33:05.730
Kitts.
00:33:06.130 --> 00:33:08.610
Oh, um, sign me up, please.
00:33:08.850 --> 00:33:10.610
Oh my god, can you imagine that?
00:33:10.769 --> 00:33:13.570
It's like probably so gorgeous, you know.
00:33:13.810 --> 00:33:16.769
You could see right through, you could see the turtles.
00:33:17.170 --> 00:33:20.610
I actually I raced once in um in St.
00:33:20.850 --> 00:33:24.690
John and the water that was in.
00:33:25.250 --> 00:33:31.890
I mean, I saw turtles floating by, you know, it's just like, oh my god, this is insane how gorgeous this is.
00:33:32.130 --> 00:33:32.769
Yeah.
00:33:33.490 --> 00:33:34.930
Oh, okay.
00:33:35.330 --> 00:33:39.570
So swim cations, I think, or is that what we're officially gonna call them?
00:33:39.810 --> 00:33:40.210
I like it.
00:33:40.290 --> 00:33:41.009
Yeah, swim cation.
00:33:41.170 --> 00:33:49.890
Like, and here's the beauty of it, especially coming from Traffon, where I literally have to consult my checklist every single time.
00:33:49.970 --> 00:33:56.130
I raced this past weekend and I had my son read my checklist off to me as I was like packing my bag.
00:33:56.530 --> 00:34:02.210
And you know, I've been doing this for over 25 years, and I still have to go with the you know, it's like swimming.
00:34:02.290 --> 00:34:05.810
You're like, goggles, check wetsuit, check.
00:34:06.050 --> 00:34:21.170
Yeah, I actually have like a whole list in the book of uh race day essentials, and then like also I have you know, if you're kayaking for somebody, yes, what to bring with you.
00:34:21.489 --> 00:34:22.849
I could have used that, Hillary.
00:34:22.929 --> 00:34:24.050
Come on, yeah.
00:34:25.090 --> 00:34:34.849
It's a whole because you have to you have to hang out for, you know, it's not a short while to do it's a it's 10 miles.
00:34:35.170 --> 00:34:39.730
It's you're hanging out for a while, yeah, yeah, a long while.
00:34:39.970 --> 00:34:50.849
Yeah, definitely yeah, um, okay, Hillary, anything else we missed about this amazing new book that you have coming out?
00:34:51.170 --> 00:34:53.410
Um, just where to order it.
00:34:53.570 --> 00:34:57.730
You know, you could get it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
00:34:57.809 --> 00:35:01.170
You can go into your independent bookstore and ask for it.
00:35:01.329 --> 00:35:04.050
You know, it is available through Ingram.
00:35:04.610 --> 00:35:07.809
Um, that's like the service I think they all use.
00:35:08.050 --> 00:35:18.450
And uh I'm gonna be doing a little book tour, not as big as the last one, but I'll be doing a couple of stops on Long Island and then going out to Colorado for a week.
00:35:18.849 --> 00:35:19.490
So cool.
00:35:19.730 --> 00:35:22.130
Okay, so a little behind the scenes here.
00:35:22.450 --> 00:35:24.369
What is so what was that like?
00:35:24.610 --> 00:35:30.369
You went to you went to Colorado and you went to Austin, and what is it like doing a book tour?
00:35:30.530 --> 00:35:33.250
I mean, we gotta hear uh like the the real deal.
00:35:33.329 --> 00:35:35.170
Like it was so tiring.
00:35:35.329 --> 00:35:42.450
I mean, it was great meeting people, like I met so many people that I that I am friendly with on social media, you know.
00:35:42.610 --> 00:35:51.730
You get we all like become part of this community, and I love that about triathlon, you know, it's like we're all like the same kind of people, yeah.
00:35:51.889 --> 00:36:09.010
And um, so I um I it was just really tiring and it was a lot of work and trying to get people, and you know, there were times when I had, you know, like I don't know, 30 people, and then there were times when absolutely nobody showed up.
00:36:09.329 --> 00:36:15.250
Oh man, I mean it's you know, it's a it's a it's a niche subject.
00:36:15.970 --> 00:36:16.369
Yeah.
00:36:16.610 --> 00:36:36.690
Um, but I feel like we are losing touch with each other, and this is an opportunity to actually connect and ask real questions and and uh do real human contact things.
00:36:37.090 --> 00:36:38.369
That might have sounded weird.
00:36:38.530 --> 00:36:39.170
Don't take it.
00:36:39.730 --> 00:36:47.730
But it is, it's true, it's so true with social media, you know, we we l lose sight of those connections, you know.
00:36:47.889 --> 00:36:56.849
We we get so we think like you know, that this online world is a real world, but it's really not a real world.
00:36:57.090 --> 00:37:10.849
But the nice thing about it is that when you do meet people in the real world, like and I met so many people that I'm so friendly with on on social that I just it was fantastic for me.
00:37:11.010 --> 00:37:11.570
I love that.
00:37:12.289 --> 00:37:14.130
Good, okay, very cool.
00:37:14.369 --> 00:37:17.010
All right, so this is gonna be a mini book tour, right?
00:37:17.329 --> 00:37:18.369
Mini book tour, yeah.
00:37:18.450 --> 00:37:21.490
I mean, I might be doing a couple of other things, you know.
00:37:21.570 --> 00:37:26.530
I'm I'm kind of like scouting the waters, but yeah, it's gonna be a little mini tour.
00:37:26.610 --> 00:37:33.809
I was, you know, thinking of targeting uh different race companies and stuff like that, like for first drivers, you know, that type of thing.
00:37:33.970 --> 00:37:47.730
That yeah, Hillary, you are always welcome at our Humans to Steal uh trath on every August, where it is hotter than blazes, but um we do a reverse trathon, which is even more intimidating.
00:37:47.970 --> 00:37:50.769
Wow, yes, so run, bike, swim.
00:37:50.849 --> 00:37:56.849
And the reason part of the reason why I did that is because aqua bikers have they get the total shaft.
00:37:57.090 --> 00:38:01.170
They swim and then they bike and then they end up in transition, which is so anticlimate.
00:38:01.410 --> 00:38:06.690
Like everybody deserves a finish line, but it is hard to swim last.
00:38:06.769 --> 00:38:09.730
And I know I've got so many people who are like, there's a reason why the swim is first.
00:38:09.809 --> 00:38:10.849
I'm like, no, there's not.
00:38:11.090 --> 00:38:16.289
Yeah, like look into the history of the sport, like nope, that's not.
00:38:16.450 --> 00:38:25.809
Yeah, um, and in fact, from a race logistic perspective, um, you're going to have the most issues at the very first part of the race.
00:38:26.210 --> 00:38:30.530
When most people are like, like you had described, I've never done open water before.
00:38:30.769 --> 00:38:37.730
And I am around all these other people, and it's cold or it's hot or whatever the situation might be, and they panic.
00:38:37.889 --> 00:38:38.210
Yeah.
00:38:38.530 --> 00:38:38.769
Right.
00:38:39.010 --> 00:38:48.210
So um anyway, all that to say, you're welcome to offer if you want to hang out in August in North Carolina, which is dream.
00:38:50.610 --> 00:38:51.329
So cool.
00:38:51.490 --> 00:38:52.369
All right, Hillary.
00:38:52.450 --> 00:38:56.369
So we can order the book um from our favorite retailer, right?
00:38:56.690 --> 00:38:57.010
Love it.
00:38:57.170 --> 00:38:58.849
Unlocking the open water swim.
00:38:59.090 --> 00:39:01.570
So good, so excited for you.
00:39:01.809 --> 00:39:21.809
Thank you for um supporting the sport in this way and supporting our community in this way because I think that just like your message is is that everybody can do this, no matter what your age, your gender, your uh ability.
00:39:21.970 --> 00:39:23.970
Like it's totally possible.
00:39:24.450 --> 00:39:27.889
So anything anything else you want to leave us with, Hilary.
00:39:28.210 --> 00:39:32.210
I just appreciate you and I appreciate your audience for listening in.
00:39:32.369 --> 00:39:35.010
And yeah, I'm always available.
00:39:35.090 --> 00:39:38.450
If anybody has any questions, you can find me on Instagram.
00:39:38.690 --> 00:39:39.010
Cool.
00:39:39.090 --> 00:39:42.690
All right, so and I'll be sure to link to that uh in the show notes too.
00:39:42.930 --> 00:39:43.329
Terrific.
00:39:43.410 --> 00:39:43.490
Cool.
00:39:43.650 --> 00:39:43.889
Thank you.
00:39:44.050 --> 00:39:46.849
Hilary Tapper, so excited that you came back on.
00:39:46.930 --> 00:39:48.210
I truly appreciate you.
00:39:48.369 --> 00:39:50.849
Thanks for writing the book and good luck with the book tour.
00:39:51.170 --> 00:39:51.410
Thank you.
00:39:51.570 --> 00:39:52.769
Thank you very much.