Episode 36 - Inspired by True Events, Balancing Muse and Manuscript

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This is Fictional Problems, the podcast where we discuss all things writing
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in association with Speculative Fiction Ireland.
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In this episode, we're exploring inspiration, where writers find it,
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how it shapes our work, and how it can help turn an initial idea into something more.
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We'll also look at the important line between inspiration and plagiarism and
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ask whether AI is changing the way we find and develop ideas.
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Join us as we explore where inspiration comes from and what to do with it once it arrives.
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And welcome back to Fictional Problems, a podcast where we discuss all things
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writing in association with Speculative Fiction Ireland, with your hosts,
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myself, Gary J. Martin. And myself, A.R. McNevin.
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Yes, and we are feeling particularly inspired today to discuss inspiration.
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More pointedly, how an author balances overwhelming inspiration. Yes.
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Versus what they put on the page and how they interact and go forward with what they write.
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Well yes so it's a it's a it's a common thing for myself i don't know about
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yourself but that's why i thought this would be a good topic,
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that one thing i tend not to do when i'm writing is read essentially that if
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i'm in the middle of a project.
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I if i'm if i i tend not to watch new stuff or i tend not to i will watch old tv shows or read or,
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read old stuff yeah but i what i don't want to happen is for something to inspire
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me such that i want to start writing something else or it has something has
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oh i can fit this in here yeah and while there's a positive to that,
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there is also i want to get get whatever i'm writing completed yes and then
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sure i'll go back and then i'll do some editing or then i can um there's one
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project i know off the top of my head that i've i finished the novella for,
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i know that i'm going to go back in and i'm going to be adding,
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it's currently sitting as a novella and I know I'm going to be adding 150 pages
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to it which will become make it you know very much a novel thing but,
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Because there's more to do, because I've been subsequently inspired to flesh
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it out even more. Well, that kind of makes sense when.
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You have something in the works. And yeah, it could be a big aspect,
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it could be a small aspect, but something piques your interest from something
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you've watched or something you've read.
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And you go on, maybe I could incorporate this little idea into it works well with what I have.
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Set up so far or yeah I could completely understand how that could happen and
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you know because you know I write science fiction fantasy if I'm watching science
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fiction fantasy especially if I,
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if I find someone who's using a trope incorrectly it's like I can I can do better
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than that so there was because there was a old TV show called Cult,
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and it has a very Diem Kunst kind of vibe to it okay,
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It was about a journalist who was investigating his missing brother,
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I think it was, who was obsessed with a TV show,
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which was about a serial killer. Okay.
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So there was this multi-layered thing of, is this, there's people who believed the TV show was real.
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So you had these stalkers and suddenly these murders start happening in real
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life. Okay. Um, and the, the actors are, are beginning to wonder what the story
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is and they've never met the really real writer of the store of the,
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of the show and all those things are happening. Yeah.
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And it actually was around the same time. There's two TV shows like this.
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There was cult and there was another one. I can't remember the name of it,
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but it was very much again, another kind of paired type of thing. Okay. Of thick TV shows.
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And what was happening in this show was the people would die just so they would
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die and they'd die with the line with the words on their lips I shall read it out,
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it would happen in front of people hey these things just snap right off and then they'd.
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And then their head would kind of crook slightly and then it'd be fucking dead.
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When they read the thing? No.
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When they would just be like, they'd be lying, they'd be sitting down just in
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a motel somewhere and you'd walk in and they'd go, hey, these things just snap
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right off. And even like that would be almost a command word for their brain
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to have an embolism. Oh, okay.
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That was fantastic. To me, that was just, the story around it felt like shit.
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Felt like utter utter shit but that one element but that one element just drove
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me insane i was like this is fantastic you mean more insane further further
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insane than i currently am treatment is being solved that it was.
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It was just wonderful there was just just this this single line was me going
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oh my god this is fantastic,
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the show ultimately ended as in the show was terrible the show ultimately ended
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with a incredibly bad ending oh no which suggests that And she suggested that.
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If I remember correctly, and I think it was cancelled, so they basically,
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I think they managed to get an episode just to finish it out,
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that there was a scene where a guy was explaining that there was a Aztec remote
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control, a TV remote control, as in a, made of stone.
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Right. And it was some, it was about, some bullshit about narrative and about
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this, and I was like, it made no fucking sense. Okay.
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But they won't. Ditch all that then. And I was like, okay, well, what did the line mean?
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And there was no answer to it. And I was so, so pissed off, because every time
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I thought about this line,
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every time I thought about this effect of, like, there was an old Outer Limits,
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it was Twilight Zone, where the guy had discovered the meaning of life,
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and every time he had told someone, they went insane.
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Yeah, we were talking about this before, yeah.
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Great premise. Yeah, so you want to hear it, but you're going to go insane.
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Or do you think you have the mental wherewithal? Yeah, I can survive this. I can survive this.
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I won't go, yeah. I'm fine. Well, you people are going insane,
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but I'm strong enough mentally.
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My mind is a steel trap. Well, yours definitely is.
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Nothing gets in, nothing gets out. Never. Hey.
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So this is the type of heavy influence. the because every time I had to,
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I remember writing a doc just opening my glass I was just splurring out just words onto,
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a word doc just to get it out of my head because it was just it was so profound
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to me yeah you wanted to see what you could do with it immediately like straight
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away but it's someone else's words,
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and it's not and it's so it's like it's very much,
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it's like a magic spell yeah that but it kind of goes back to like the would
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be real world examples of like the whole
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MK Ultra project all these conspiracy theories about you know men who stare
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at goats yes you know that whole aspect of you know there has been human,
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real world exploration of the.
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Bizarre the occult perhaps you know the pushing of the human mind and brain beyond.
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Assuming that's where it goes. Yeah.
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But it could go anywhere. Yeah, yeah. That's what's great about it.
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That line, the first thing I thought was that because they're dealing with worlds
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inside of worlds, what if it's a, it's just, I'm unplugging myself from the Matrix. Yeah.
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Yeah, and they show up somewhere else. No, no, they just unplug themselves from
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the Matrix and their body is dead just as with Switch and APOC in the Matrix.
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The bodies in the Matrix drop dead as they get removed. Yeah.
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And I said that they are just they're popping out into the Nebula because they're going I'm fine.
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Hey, this thing snaps off. Remove.
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And so they look like they're dead but actually they're fine. Yeah.
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And that's just one many, many ways of going. There's also I don't know if you
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ever you read Ian M. Banks.
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No. The culture novels. They're inside the culture. The culture is this galaxy
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spanning incredibly far futuristic sci-fi.
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Where all these AI minds they have all these weird names for a ship which are
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fantastic yeah the ultimate ship the second and anticipation of a new lover's arrival.
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The better than Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man put together?
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No, no, no. The SS better than Superman and Spider-Man put together.
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Decent names. Oh, that was Peter Griffin's boat.
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That doesn't, no, no, doesn't work. But there was all these wonderful names. Yeah.
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And they had a special service. They had a secret service that went around just
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knocking over governments. Okay. And it was called Special Circumstances.
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Okay. And that is such a good name. I like that. I mean, it is just what we
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do. We handle special circumstances. We handle...
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Get the job done. And whether or not it's the, hey, these things just snap off,
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or special circumstances, you can change it. You can go, these are unusual events.
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We work for UE. Yeah. It's like, no, it'll always be lesser than.
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It'll always, always, always be lesser than this heavy inspiration that sits in my head. So it's...
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How do we deal with it? Other than ignoring it, other than never,
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ever touching that idea, because it's so...
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Yeah, but yeah, I don't think you can be afraid of the inspiration either when
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it comes, or not afraid necessarily, but if the inspiration is there,
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I mean, if something like that is hitting you with such meaning...
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I feel like you should always embrace that feeling anyway, not necessarily the
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wording specific, but the concept of,
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what you are finding inspirational from it is not necessarily the arrangement of the words. Yes, it is.
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In this case. No, no, yes, it is. Yeah, but in this case, not all inspiration hits you the same.
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I know, I know, but it's, it is, whatever the, that's one thing,
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if you're talking about lesser inspiration, like the things we talked about,
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the idea of certain aspects of your next book.
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Have, or inspired in certain ways, and you go, oh, that's a great idea. Yeah.
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And it can be filtered in, then that's, I guess, the lesser form,
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or at least the workable form.
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But this is so monumentally influential, or monumentally, it's like,
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it's like, It's the difference between finding a piece and finding something
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that is almost fully formed.
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Okay, yeah. It's like saying that, like, special circumstances is, they're just great.
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It's like, I've often said that I can take a book down, one of my role-playing
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game books, off the shelf, flick through it, and read any page.
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Yeah. And suddenly, it's there.
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It actually recently happened that I plucked down the Changeling The Lost,
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which is the new New World of Darkness book and I just flicked through it and
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I happened to be sitting on the toilet I just happened to be having a nice long
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bowel movement and I went I happened to just flick through the pages and the
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page happened to talk about a fetch do you know what a fetch is?
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Nope a fetch is a Changeling as in the thing that's left in a person's place a Changeling,
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as in the baby gets taken the human baby gets taken and the thing that's in
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the place is a fetch it's the changeling it's the it's the creature yes,
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and sometimes it's if it's a baby it's a changeling if it's a human if it's
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an adult there's a fetch and they're always just slightly odd okay um.
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And this suddenly created an entire story for one of my, so essentially I have
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book three ready to go as soon as I finish book one and then book two.
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I have book three now story written out before I got back to my computer,
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as in the 10 second one, 20 second one, between toilet and desk.
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I had- The mind was working. I had so many scenes just go, okay,
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it wasn't a fully thing, but I was like, that's how it starts.
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Then there's a flashback. But it's an inspiration cascade. Yeah,
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exactly. And it was from a single page. Yeah, sure. Of a single book, you know.
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But that is an inspiration moment where it then fits into an existing series. It's existing, like...
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But I suppose if you're doing, like, a massive...
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Something that is extremely inspirational like that starts the neurons firing
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and like you were saying it was giving you these ideas and giving you ideas so like you can take,
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even something as small as an image and that could fit into a small part,
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of a story you can kind of you're kind of lifting and placing copy paste,
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not copy paste but you're on the you're,
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on the point or on the problem of the point should I say yeah But, like.
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The degree to which the inspiration affects, like, in this situation,
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it seems like a small thing that you think is absolutely brilliant is now spawning.
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It's blooming all these ideas in your mind.
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From, yes, so from the fetch idea, that is just a, because I always say that,
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this is three world darkness books, they're always very, very well written,
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or at least they tune into me very well. Yeah, okay.
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That I can do this, or I flick through, did it read, and suddenly I want to write. Yeah.
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So maybe that's because that's how I came up on reading these books.
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Maybe that's the reason for it.
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But having the moment of inspiration that then spawns out, having a seed that spawns out,
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this has been compared to having a fully finished oak tree that you're looking
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at going, this is the most beautiful oak tree I've ever seen in my life. This is the tree of life.
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This is neurohazardous. I want to chop it down and put it in my garden.
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I do not want to touch it. I do not want to adjust.
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Every acorn is perfect where it is. it is a one the way the sun is rising behind
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it oh my god this is absolutely perfect and i do not want to,
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i want to almost talk about it
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yeah it's almost like i want to describe it rather than write it anew um.
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And it need taking say the hey these things snap off,
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at no point in that story did they talk about someone going out of the matrix
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yeah so me writing a story about
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someone going out of the matrix is and because it ended the way it did,
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It's your interpretation of the inspiration is providing this roadmap for you.
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But it's still the same line.
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And I think I don't want to touch that line.
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And that's the problem. Yeah. Well, I think like if I write a space opera where
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there is a secret agent who's working for a clandestine government who's going
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to go down and fuck over a government,
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I so want them to be from special circumstances.
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I absolutely do. I just do. Well, that's great.
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No, but they can't be from special circumstances, because that's from another
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great writer. Yeah. But, I mean.
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It's a good sign, though, that certain things can grab your attention.
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That is a sign of a good writer.
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If they can write something that you go, that just lights a fire in your mind
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of creativity in and of itself.
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But it's difficult then, I mean, it comes down perhaps to the quote-unquote
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character of the writer as to,
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how far they will kind of draw outside their own lines to draw that Sharpie
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around someone else's line to try and incorporate it into their own tornado path.
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Yeah so that's where we get the problem of between inspiration and plagiarism
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yeah and that's the thing,
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that so it's at what point can I say that this line is it was you know I spiraled
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off it's like I don't know if you ever watched the the movie Finding Forrester,
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it was yes Sean Connery yeah one of his last movies where the part of the plot is he gave Jamal,
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a story of his of one of his own stories gave him inspiration just gave him
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typing and then it became his own story.
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So you could say that acknowledging that this is where it's from is either pleasures or fanfiction.
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Fanfiction! There you go!
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And stop the clock. Producer, stop the clock. How long it took him to mention
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fanfiction. And the clock just reset itself. What?
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So we just passed 14 minutes. It was almost like it hit zero again. Start again.
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But the, but it's the, it's, you want there to be an honesty.
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Of course. You want it to be a, kind of a discipline thing then. Exactly, yes.
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Self-discipline. That surely that you can get there through another way,
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but it'll always, always, always be almost less than.
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Yeah. Because it's like, I'm terrible. Actually, I wanted to mention something before I moved on.
00:18:13.357 --> 00:18:17.706
When you mentioned the idea about writers kind of seeing good things in other
00:18:17.706 --> 00:18:19.832
writers it's one thing I always like about,
00:18:20.806 --> 00:18:24.646
British comedy shows especially British panel shows like Mocked Week especially
00:18:24.646 --> 00:18:29.256
the early Mocked Week guys because there's a lot of guys who would kind of like
00:18:29.256 --> 00:18:34.246
this was Frankie Boyle and Russell Howard and they all have their bits and you can see,
00:18:35.166 --> 00:18:39.136
they're reading off bits that they have written they're gaming things out for
00:18:39.136 --> 00:18:42.996
their own cassette and I love the fact that you could see them kind of someone's
00:18:42.996 --> 00:18:44.181
sitting back going, go on, your turn.
00:18:44.576 --> 00:18:50.206
Yeah. And with them laughing at one of those sets, that's really that.
00:18:50.206 --> 00:18:56.193
So if a comedian is laughing at comedy, I take that as top-notch stuff. Yeah, it's strong.
00:18:56.385 --> 00:19:01.598
And that's like, I want to write that better than you. It's like the whole principle of science.
00:19:02.752 --> 00:19:05.730
I want to be, I want to figure out this before you do.
00:19:06.107 --> 00:19:09.345
Trust but verify. I trust what you've done, but I'm going to...
00:19:09.345 --> 00:19:11.305
I'm going to test this. Yeah, I'm going to test this theory.
00:19:11.305 --> 00:19:12.915
You got there first. Yeah.
00:19:13.315 --> 00:19:16.035
So it's, so that sort of thing is so...
00:19:16.535 --> 00:19:18.477
You want to be the Mozart to their Salieri.
00:19:21.075 --> 00:19:23.959
If possible. Yeah. So it's the,
00:19:25.764 --> 00:19:33.195
no matter what you do in the future, you'll always remember that you're trying
00:19:33.195 --> 00:19:37.785
to almost subvert the initial point of inspiration.
00:19:37.785 --> 00:19:46.145
Yes, this heavy chunk, it's almost like this leaden it's so it's like a brown
00:19:46.145 --> 00:19:52.005
dwarf star weight it's mownier you can't lift it, but it's there and it's wonderful.
00:19:52.005 --> 00:19:55.765
I want to be worthy Yes, you want to be worthy to wield it but you know you
00:19:55.765 --> 00:19:57.568
can't because you're not Thor.
00:19:57.783 --> 00:20:02.345
You're not whoever wrote this. Yeah. So you want, you know, so you can go off
00:20:02.345 --> 00:20:07.995
and try and get someone else's, but it's never truly going to be anything else. Yeah.
00:20:09.485 --> 00:20:15.575
So it's kind of along the lines of, well, the question then becomes as to,
00:20:15.575 --> 00:20:18.505
you're not, again, character, your
00:20:18.505 --> 00:20:22.275
own character says you're not going to straight off rip this thing off.
00:20:22.275 --> 00:20:25.490
You're not going to plagiarize it because that's abhorrent to.
00:20:28.135 --> 00:20:33.685
Your own sensibility of being an author, is that it's an integrity thing.
00:20:33.685 --> 00:20:36.795
It's like, okay, I have this massive point of inspiration and I'm going to be able to do it.
00:20:37.460 --> 00:20:43.217
I'm not going to just lift it. I'm going to, but there are like the,
00:20:43.217 --> 00:20:44.727
the power of that inspiration.
00:20:44.727 --> 00:20:49.897
Again, like I said, if it's, if it's firing off potential like stories,
00:20:49.897 --> 00:20:55.287
just from the very concept, uh, is, is, is, is creating these worlds in your
00:20:55.287 --> 00:20:57.950
head at the time that I think that's perfectly fine.
00:20:58.310 --> 00:21:03.755
You know, the, that's, that's kind of hopefully is inspiration rather than,
00:21:04.083 --> 00:21:09.837
you know, just plagiarism is, is, when the idea and the concept and,
00:21:11.269 --> 00:21:16.087
the idea behind the idea, as well as the deeper meaning of something that is
00:21:16.087 --> 00:21:22.937
inspiring, if you were to, you can still use most of that.
00:21:24.417 --> 00:21:29.201
Without taking the central actual text.
00:21:30.017 --> 00:21:33.015
You can take the feeling behind it, you can take the vibe of it,
00:21:33.276 --> 00:21:36.963
you can kind of mold it and shape it into something that you want to say.
00:21:37.485 --> 00:21:39.766
Because you don't want to say what that other writer has said,
00:21:40.497 --> 00:21:43.022
but you like the way he said what he wanted to say.
00:21:43.671 --> 00:21:51.066
Yes, but, and the problem is that it's like taking Highlander and removing the line that Konami won.
00:21:51.757 --> 00:21:55.948
It's not the same thing. Yeah. I shall be singular.
00:21:56.632 --> 00:22:00.760
It's, you know, you can go through the synonym battle, the thesaurus,
00:22:00.886 --> 00:22:04.867
and go, let's find a different wording of this.
00:22:04.867 --> 00:22:09.877
And it just feels flat because it's like that thing because you're essentially,
00:22:10.517 --> 00:22:12.297
removing the heart as if imagine,
00:22:13.037 --> 00:22:17.337
you reverse that sentiment yeah you're saying you want to include the heart
00:22:17.337 --> 00:22:20.967
really that's the you know you want that as much we can write stories until
00:22:20.967 --> 00:22:23.957
we're blue in the face but we need to have the heart there and essentially if
00:22:23.957 --> 00:22:27.857
we are removing that heart then it's i don't.
00:22:30.735 --> 00:22:36.175
Yeah, but there is a potential there once it's removed to fill that void with
00:22:36.175 --> 00:22:41.835
something else that mightn't feel to you as good as the thing that inspired you.
00:22:42.255 --> 00:22:46.035
But to someone reading your stuff, they might think that this is a phenomenal
00:22:46.035 --> 00:22:49.215
idea that they've never heard of or seen before. Because they mightn't be aware
00:22:49.215 --> 00:22:51.017
of where your inspiration comes from.
00:22:51.675 --> 00:22:56.955
And that is a challenge. Yeah. That is how far you need to move away.
00:22:56.955 --> 00:22:58.140
Again, take Highlander for example.
00:22:58.429 --> 00:23:01.163
If you have a bunch of people who are hacking each other's heads off,
00:23:02.283 --> 00:23:06.855
that is a concept and like you compare say Highlander to Highlander 2 as in
00:23:06.855 --> 00:23:11.465
Highlander 2 bean movie not a Highlander movie but still a good enough bean
00:23:11.465 --> 00:23:15.365
movie as in good popcorn movie great and has people hacking each other's heads off,
00:23:16.056 --> 00:23:20.475
so and has some scenes of that so and I would say those two are completely different genre,
00:23:21.215 --> 00:23:24.465
completely different movies that they have one's fantasy one feels more like
00:23:24.465 --> 00:23:28.365
some fiction yeah absolutely so there is there And that's exactly what they
00:23:28.365 --> 00:23:30.046
are. So they're, they're completely different.
00:23:30.429 --> 00:23:33.385
So you could almost say that the first one doesn't know anything,
00:23:33.385 --> 00:23:35.395
the second, or the second one doesn't know anything, the first one. Yeah.
00:23:36.858 --> 00:23:41.131
So, but you could say that the reason why the second one is so bad is because
00:23:41.131 --> 00:23:44.691
the heart of it was removed, that it wasn't about immortals,
00:23:44.691 --> 00:23:46.251
it was about these weird aliens. Yeah.
00:23:46.477 --> 00:23:50.157
So, and because, and you can say, well, it's doing the same things. No, they're not.
00:23:50.901 --> 00:23:56.461
So it's. It didn't even say, we're going into, we could deep dive into Highlander
00:23:56.461 --> 00:23:59.651
2 and who just inconsistent it was with the previous one.
00:23:59.651 --> 00:24:03.701
You don't know what's going on there. like oh if we don't do another movie about
00:24:03.701 --> 00:24:05.601
this we lose the license yeah,
00:24:06.201 --> 00:24:09.441
it's kind of what it felt like rush something together and we'll just film it
00:24:09.441 --> 00:24:12.961
and sure we'll pay the actors whatever we need to sure sure yeah yeah because
00:24:12.961 --> 00:24:16.831
like you know that that is the one thing that stuck out was that conor mcleod
00:24:16.831 --> 00:24:20.821
and ramirez knew each other on the other planet even though ramirez,
00:24:21.741 --> 00:24:25.956
you know and they're called i i believe they call each other by those names
00:24:26.287 --> 00:24:31.645
on the alien planet they do so Conor McLeod of no particular clan Yes,
00:24:32.330 --> 00:24:37.757
Happens to know this Ramirez guy Who's a very kind of You know Spanish name,
00:24:38.441 --> 00:24:39.731
Yes well he's Egyptian Yeah.
00:24:41.741 --> 00:24:45.618
Even though Ramirez is thousands of years older. Yeah.
00:24:46.059 --> 00:24:50.657
So there was no, you can't follow the logic from the first one into the second one. Nope.
00:24:51.145 --> 00:24:54.406
Without just ignoring the events of the first one. Yeah, maybe separate things.
00:24:54.545 --> 00:24:58.851
Yeah. But I still like, I still appreciate, I used to like it more,
00:24:58.851 --> 00:25:02.730
but I still appreciate Islander 2 as just a sci-fi B-movie.
00:25:04.036 --> 00:25:07.581
I will have to compare that to anything being put out today and say that one's
00:25:07.581 --> 00:25:10.729
fucking better than any of the Netflix shit that gets pumped out.
00:25:11.420 --> 00:25:16.488
Last house piece of shit anyway but so but I actually want to add one thing,
00:25:16.952 --> 00:25:20.797
so as almost like oh we have second act so I heard this,
00:25:21.416 --> 00:25:25.101
there's a guy who does D&D shorts very funny guy I can't remember his name I
00:25:25.101 --> 00:25:28.191
will throw the link in somewhere yeah I love the way we do our research for
00:25:28.191 --> 00:25:29.381
these episodes oh yeah yeah but,
00:25:30.241 --> 00:25:37.341
he is he referenced a D&D idea yeah where there's a truth serum but it's not
00:25:37.341 --> 00:25:41.221
that the person has to speak the truth it's that whatever they speak becomes
00:25:41.221 --> 00:25:44.311
the truth oh wow so like the bart simpson,
00:25:45.341 --> 00:25:48.601
uh right in another the halloween episode where like uh.
00:25:49.941 --> 00:25:54.855
America was now founded by some guy but it's actually becomes the truth yeah
00:25:55.018 --> 00:25:58.003
so this becomes a power and this is a great idea,
00:25:58.897 --> 00:26:03.161
but again you have the source it's like it's like the inception idea of think
00:26:03.161 --> 00:26:05.661
don't think of an elephant what do you think about i think of an.
00:26:06.788 --> 00:26:09.641
You already know you know and
00:26:09.641 --> 00:26:14.809
this is completely about the respect one has for just another character.
00:26:15.922 --> 00:26:21.300
As an example, in work, I have found online solutions for technical problems. Yeah.
00:26:21.672 --> 00:26:28.182
And one of those problems is a bunch of Power BI code that I take out and I
00:26:28.182 --> 00:26:30.587
drop into a Power BI and it works. Okay.
00:26:30.773 --> 00:26:35.028
The person who created that code is some Indian fella or girl,
00:26:35.155 --> 00:26:39.852
don't know who they are, but their name, I insist that their name is part of
00:26:39.852 --> 00:26:41.917
that code every time I put it in.
00:26:42.637 --> 00:26:45.682
It's just part, it's commented out. Yeah. This is a stop going.
00:26:45.682 --> 00:26:49.347
This is the comment. They have their name, the date that it was prayed on.
00:26:49.643 --> 00:26:53.812
It's coming up. I insist. Yeah. That every, and I've, credit where credit is
00:26:53.812 --> 00:26:58.882
due. This person will never, ever know that I've done it. Yeah, but you'll know. I know.
00:26:59.382 --> 00:27:01.652
And that's, and that's the, that's the real important thing that I'm,
00:27:01.652 --> 00:27:05.458
that I think I'm, I'm pressing there. That the person who wrote,
00:27:05.859 --> 00:27:10.967
hey, these things snap off, may never read the story I wrote, I write.
00:27:11.802 --> 00:27:15.452
Someone may never read it, but I don't know. I don't know. that that's where
00:27:15.452 --> 00:27:20.685
the inspiration came from yeah and it's it's and for a very long time,
00:27:21.420 --> 00:27:27.175
it was killing me that i couldn't work oh yeah until one thing happened,
00:27:28.009 --> 00:27:32.452
let's have it what was that one thing that happened i found his inspiration
00:27:32.452 --> 00:27:37.906
point oh interesting i found where he got the line from oh right.
00:27:38.811 --> 00:27:43.642
How different was it it's the same line oh no way it's the same line it's from
00:27:43.642 --> 00:27:46.012
a Gary Larson cartoon. Excellent.
00:27:46.681 --> 00:27:51.818
It's two bears looking at one another saying, hey, these things just snap right off.
00:27:53.102 --> 00:27:57.983
You were talking about arms and legs? Oh, no, no. As in, they're manacles. Okay.
00:27:58.442 --> 00:28:02.639
And looking at it, hey, these things just snap right off. And I was like...
00:28:03.852 --> 00:28:07.806
It was just a throwaway line. Yeah. It was, for this writer,
00:28:07.973 --> 00:28:15.160
a throwaway line. They picked up, I was like, I can use it. Suddenly it unlocks.
00:28:15.791 --> 00:28:19.780
But it's, and that moment... Takes it back to first principles. Oh my God!
00:28:20.244 --> 00:28:25.469
Yeah. And that moment of me going, I was like, now I have to fucking write it.
00:28:26.439 --> 00:28:31.310
It was just... Or you could, you know, thumb your way through an old Gary Larson
00:28:31.310 --> 00:28:38.060
book of Farside, you know in comics and go oh there's a much better line well no,
00:28:39.340 --> 00:28:42.920
no no no no that's no that's just no that's silly
00:28:43.320 --> 00:28:48.760
this the inspiration has already happened the weight the blinding light of inspiration
00:28:48.760 --> 00:28:53.520
has already happened i don't want i don't need to seek it again of again something
00:28:53.520 --> 00:28:57.390
else it doesn't need to be something else it can be the exact thing so.
00:28:58.870 --> 00:29:04.637
And again things it for for For a vast majority of writers, for anyone who uses AI,
00:29:05.263 --> 00:29:07.892
this isn't a thing. Yeah. This is not an issue.
00:29:08.300 --> 00:29:12.043
Anyone who's using AI in any way should... They don't toil and trouble over...
00:29:12.734 --> 00:29:15.280
They don't fucking care about this. The moral questions, yeah.
00:29:15.320 --> 00:29:19.850
You know, they're not writing, they're just curating. It's anyone who's writing a story...
00:29:20.260 --> 00:29:23.988
Because what they'll do is they'll put that line in as a prompt,
00:29:24.348 --> 00:29:29.060
and suddenly they'll have a 400-word, 600-word, you know, a few pages afterwards,
00:29:29.060 --> 00:29:31.522
and it's like, fuck them. Yeah.
00:29:31.932 --> 00:29:35.403
And it is, that is the difference here. That it is.
00:29:38.010 --> 00:29:41.077
You know, I've talked about inspiration, I've talked about plagiarization,
00:29:41.900 --> 00:29:48.090
plagiarization, plagiarization, plagiarization, and now, we've talked about
00:29:48.090 --> 00:29:53.070
fanfic, and we now come back because AI is, it's,
00:29:54.990 --> 00:29:59.540
The one thing I was watching, I think you actually recommended a guy you saw
00:29:59.540 --> 00:30:06.690
who's using an AI novel generation tool and was taking people through it. Oh, okay, yeah.
00:30:08.370 --> 00:30:13.630
And the fact that he looks very much like me was very much annoying. No. Your cousin, right?
00:30:15.235 --> 00:30:18.590
Well, at least he's American, so there's no chance of confusion.
00:30:18.590 --> 00:30:21.724
But it was it was it was so,
00:30:22.598 --> 00:30:27.790
it my only hope is that these people finally realize that that they haven't
00:30:27.790 --> 00:30:32.213
created anything yeah that that they're not,
00:30:32.962 --> 00:30:39.920
benefiting from this this process of worrying of of getting inspired yeah they're
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:44.040
paddling around in the shallow end they're not even doing that they're sitting
00:30:44.040 --> 00:30:46.210
on the bank they're just I mean,
00:30:47.050 --> 00:30:49.890
and I've talked about about looking at, you know.
00:30:52.185 --> 00:30:55.749
In work, I just do not use AI at all and recommend against it.
00:30:56.295 --> 00:31:03.572
It's, it's a tool, you use it, but this way of using it, it's just,
00:31:05.410 --> 00:31:06.433
there's no inspiration there.
00:31:07.455 --> 00:31:10.746
There's no. Spark. Artistry there. Yeah.
00:31:10.955 --> 00:31:14.849
And it is, I can feel myself thinking, this is arrogant, but I was thinking,
00:31:14.989 --> 00:31:19.240
well, I write these funny stories about, you know, like vampires and spaceships
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:22.042
and aliens and, and, and weird, weird wizards.
00:31:22.228 --> 00:31:30.080
And it's still the sequence of words that me or you put down has never,
00:31:30.080 --> 00:31:33.247
ever been put down in that order by another human being,
00:31:33.932 --> 00:31:37.880
or another being ever in the, in this universe has never been put down that way. Exactly.
00:31:38.570 --> 00:31:42.918
The thing that's being generated by these non inspired, just,
00:31:43.330 --> 00:31:45.827
I want to produce something. Yeah.
00:31:46.221 --> 00:31:48.265
I want the production at the end.
00:31:48.914 --> 00:31:53.180
That is, hopefully they realize that they're not producing anything or that
00:31:53.413 --> 00:31:54.765
something has been produced. Yeah.
00:31:55.096 --> 00:31:57.441
It's like Milli Vanilli.
00:31:58.463 --> 00:32:04.249
Accident touchdown. Insofar as, yeah, they were a massively popular act that
00:32:04.249 --> 00:32:10.566
were, you know, collectively, their whole apparatus behind them was producing these hit songs.
00:32:11.232 --> 00:32:15.019
And yeah, they were going in the charts and they're selling records and they
00:32:15.019 --> 00:32:18.181
were doing it. But when it came down to actually doing it.
00:32:18.744 --> 00:32:22.169
Yeah, they couldn't. They couldn't. And they got found out. Absolutely,
00:32:22.169 --> 00:32:24.410
yeah. And when they did, that was career over.
00:32:24.990 --> 00:32:31.459
Yes, but I. So even if these are so-called AI authors, at some point they'll
00:32:31.459 --> 00:32:36.219
have to do it and then be found wanting, they will have been waged,
00:32:36.219 --> 00:32:37.233
they will have been measured.
00:32:37.552 --> 00:32:42.499
I don't think it's the same in that the... It's not a live performance. Exactly.
00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:45.923
So that someone, it really depends on the reader.
00:32:46.922 --> 00:32:52.279
Because while we have our own understanding or we have our own understanding of what...
00:32:52.750 --> 00:32:55.066
I saw this quote where it said.
00:32:57.939 --> 00:33:06.779
All AI slop is hateful all your AI images are hateful your AI pamphlet is terrible
00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:11.299
your AI post is terrible and my response was that no it's,
00:33:12.199 --> 00:33:17.609
what you perceive to be AI is terrible the song that you're humming along to
00:33:17.609 --> 00:33:22.042
that was AI created that you like it's not terrible it's still AI slop,
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:30.656
So it is the experiencer, the reader, the listener, who is making determination
00:33:30.656 --> 00:33:32.128
about whether or not this is good or bad.
00:33:32.633 --> 00:33:39.496
The production that this person who makes by curating a novel through an AI
00:33:39.496 --> 00:33:43.716
generation tool, that they have no real impetus in.
00:33:45.176 --> 00:33:49.835
They have never had what we're talking about. The question, questioning ourselves
00:33:50.002 --> 00:33:51.996
about inspiration or plagiarism.
00:33:51.996 --> 00:33:56.016
How far should I go on this and yeah inspiration and well much like those Milli
00:33:56.016 --> 00:33:59.786
Vanilli fans in the audience they weren't the ones to discover that they were
00:33:59.786 --> 00:34:03.080
lip syncing you know but when they did sure,
00:34:03.725 --> 00:34:04.776
that was the end they were like
00:34:04.776 --> 00:34:08.393
wash their hands of that yeah but you also imagine people who will still,
00:34:09.078 --> 00:34:11.556
listen to them who will still listen to those albums and still listen to those
00:34:11.556 --> 00:34:18.992
songs yeah because they can't they can't get away from it it's a sunken cost fallacy so it's so,
00:34:19.802 --> 00:34:25.293
it's those people and we're being two of them that struggle with,
00:34:26.059 --> 00:34:31.986
influence yeah who struggle who go i'm not going to plagiarize this person or
00:34:31.986 --> 00:34:34.086
i'm not i'm going to even if it's you,
00:34:34.773 --> 00:34:38.621
know plagiarism is even not even a thing because there's there's plenty of of
00:34:38.801 --> 00:34:43.436
cases you probably seen yourself on on booktube or yeah about
00:34:43.871 --> 00:34:49.326
people who are who are writing books that are so identical to one another but
00:34:49.326 --> 00:34:50.866
it's still not in the realm of plagiarism.
00:34:51.138 --> 00:34:56.496
Well, I have had certain comments in relation to the Night of Gale Garra,
00:34:56.496 --> 00:35:02.486
the first one, that were questions as to where the idea came from.
00:35:02.486 --> 00:35:05.694
I know more than one individual.
00:35:06.019 --> 00:35:10.454
One person was like, in relation to, okay, Geist is part of the Night Watchman.
00:35:11.528 --> 00:35:18.912
And Game of Thrones famously has the Night's Watch. Yes. So they were like, is that just that?
00:35:19.521 --> 00:35:22.128
Are they just... Yeah, that's an idiot. And I'm like, well...
00:35:22.750 --> 00:35:26.990
No, no, no, no. Because all you have to do is go history, not watch.
00:35:26.990 --> 00:35:28.142
Yeah, it just sounds close.
00:35:28.345 --> 00:35:33.204
So the person who didn't bother going to... Before questioning your honor,
00:35:33.471 --> 00:35:36.890
questioning your ability, didn't go into Google.
00:35:37.470 --> 00:35:41.383
Yeah. Because I imagine he or she did this over the internet.
00:35:41.731 --> 00:35:45.650
And didn't go to Google and put in Night's Watch and found the fucking history,
00:35:46.610 --> 00:35:50.508
that goes through the entire world about.
00:35:50.909 --> 00:35:55.279
First off, I appreciate the indignation on my behalf. That's great. Thank you very much.
00:35:56.250 --> 00:36:00.360
I don't know the background as to where the comment came from,
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:03.810
but my answer was no, they're totally separate.
00:36:03.938 --> 00:36:08.950
They sound similar, but the other one was in relation to the whale riders. Okay.
00:36:09.450 --> 00:36:17.613
And someone saying well that's like in Avatar 2 where they ride sea creatures,
00:36:18.147 --> 00:36:19.470
is that where you got that idea,
00:36:20.550 --> 00:36:25.870
or was it some people might think you're just lifting that idea and I was like nah this is.
00:36:26.985 --> 00:36:35.611
Way in advance of Avatar 2 ever being conceived of shall we say or especially not just the timing,
00:36:36.970 --> 00:36:41.020
oh sure and you'll get that like talking about negative commentary and this
00:36:41.020 --> 00:36:46.771
is part of the part we mentioned before about about things like a big build up.
00:36:48.250 --> 00:36:52.556
I've got comments on the first book I have of Conamancy saying that it's cliched,
00:36:53.248 --> 00:36:54.299
because I had to establish,
00:36:55.003 --> 00:37:01.592
If you, by the time you get to the third book now, it's all,
00:37:01.592 --> 00:37:06.683
you know, as in, I basically went, this is going to start from a baseline.
00:37:06.787 --> 00:37:12.058
Yeah. And the first book goes, here's things slowly, but surely growing. Yeah.
00:37:12.325 --> 00:37:17.062
That, I didn't have any elves, dwarves, anything like that until the second
00:37:17.062 --> 00:37:19.152
book. The second book? The dwarves?
00:37:19.692 --> 00:37:25.299
In the second book, yeah. Yeah, Stormhold. But I make reference to a family,
00:37:25.812 --> 00:37:31.042
in the Docklands that Edgar knows, who were very, kept themselves,
00:37:31.477 --> 00:37:32.702
and then suddenly one night left.
00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:35.413
Yeah. Because they're all growing pointiers.
00:37:36.092 --> 00:37:43.005
Yeah. And their kids were profoundly declaring basically different characteristics. Yeah.
00:37:43.249 --> 00:37:45.652
This particular place was very much anti-magic. It was, it was,
00:37:45.652 --> 00:37:48.401
it was, or magic was anti-all that stuff.
00:37:48.708 --> 00:37:52.862
So they, or they were anti the foreigner, essentially.
00:37:53.649 --> 00:37:58.112
So these things were built up that I always knew.
00:37:58.692 --> 00:37:59.662
As we've talked before, I always
00:37:59.662 --> 00:38:03.365
knew the reasoning and the why for behind all the stuff that's there.
00:38:04.405 --> 00:38:07.361
When, so when someone goes this cliche, it's like, well, wait,
00:38:07.361 --> 00:38:10.301
wait for book two and then book three and then book four. And you see it all.
00:38:10.521 --> 00:38:15.510
You're like, I designed it this way. Yeah. That you are seeing the basic version of it.
00:38:15.661 --> 00:38:18.976
Yeah. Because I'm not spending my entire time going, by the way,
00:38:19.173 --> 00:38:21.281
all the wizards in this are based on this, this, this, this,
00:38:21.281 --> 00:38:21.881
this, this, this, this, this.
00:38:22.481 --> 00:38:25.481
I'm not telling you. It really annoys me that.
00:38:28.058 --> 00:38:31.531
When someone makes a comment going, I really like the world building of this
00:38:31.531 --> 00:38:35.581
novel, I go, you haven't fucking seen the world building of that novel.
00:38:36.021 --> 00:38:42.081
If you have, then that author didn't do a very good job at doing the building because it should be.
00:38:42.441 --> 00:38:45.441
A front loaded exposition for 50 pages.
00:38:45.941 --> 00:38:48.742
Yeah, exactly. They spent so much time doing exposition. Tough.
00:38:48.910 --> 00:38:50.971
You may have seen the foreground.
00:38:51.458 --> 00:38:55.661
Yeah. And you may love the foreground. which is great so you see part of it
00:38:56.102 --> 00:38:59.931
but it's very much are you like the feel of of what you're reading and like
00:38:59.931 --> 00:39:01.542
you know that's the world building is like,
00:39:02.481 --> 00:39:05.762
this small section that i'm reading about hints,
00:39:06.615 --> 00:39:12.043
well at things that i like i i would make it stronger than him i'd use the metaphor that,
00:39:12.792 --> 00:39:16.879
it's like driving in a car a smooth you're driving on smooth,
00:39:17.581 --> 00:39:21.401
i'd really like to drive of this car you have no idea about the engine you have
00:39:21.401 --> 00:39:25.921
no idea about the technology you have no idea about the nature of the road and that you're or,
00:39:26.401 --> 00:39:29.641
the nature of the tires you might be on slicks you may be on whatever you have
00:39:29.641 --> 00:39:34.331
no understanding of the entire package you just go you're just having having
00:39:34.331 --> 00:39:38.261
the sensory input of that exact moment exactly yeah yeah so the so,
00:39:39.163 --> 00:39:44.109
when you have all these uh the the these moments of inspiration when you have,
00:39:45.216 --> 00:39:49.922
It is a, and I always say that it's always up to the reader to kind of go,
00:39:50.177 --> 00:39:51.542
they get to make the decisions.
00:39:52.452 --> 00:39:56.415
But you also have to accept that they don't have all the information. Yeah, yeah.
00:39:57.575 --> 00:40:04.045
And it is up to us, whether it be, because in this case, the idea of this heavy
00:40:04.045 --> 00:40:07.455
inspiration, we're not even talking about a realm of plagiarism.
00:40:07.455 --> 00:40:12.864
Players but we are aware or we are respectful,
00:40:13.515 --> 00:40:18.955
that this idea came from somewhere else yeah but like in in ancient greek society
00:40:18.955 --> 00:40:23.239
when it was the muses it was they were actual embodiments that would inspire artists,
00:40:23.790 --> 00:40:28.825
and they would plant these ideas and inspirations into the artist oh sure but
00:40:28.825 --> 00:40:33.187
we talked about that the idea that the muse ascends and suddenly yeah That line wasn't written by me.
00:40:34.110 --> 00:40:40.125
But that is a, I guess, genuine, or at least, I describe it as genuine inspiration
00:40:40.125 --> 00:40:42.975
or perhaps that you're unaware. Yeah.
00:40:43.695 --> 00:40:48.245
It's a humanly recognizable phenomenon that happens to most people,
00:40:48.245 --> 00:40:50.535
I'd say, at some point in their life. I don't know.
00:40:52.235 --> 00:40:56.175
I don't think you can say that. Whether it's an idea of how to put up the shelf
00:40:56.175 --> 00:41:00.735
properly, or it's an idea of, you know, how to deliver a particular report and work.
00:41:02.646 --> 00:41:06.135
Inspiration does happen, I'd say to most people at some point.
00:41:06.995 --> 00:41:11.045
You've watered down inspiration a fuck ton if it's how to put up a shelf. But, yeah.
00:41:11.045 --> 00:41:15.315
Well, if you've never done it before, an epiphany might arrive and you might
00:41:15.315 --> 00:41:23.709
go, ah. What I was saying was that that moment of Muse may simply be you've forgotten the origin.
00:41:24.952 --> 00:41:30.119
Because we don't have... You're thinking, what a great idea I had all by myself and on my own.
00:41:30.664 --> 00:41:34.002
Yeah. It was like, oh, that's the same ideas. You can imagine a different version
00:41:34.002 --> 00:41:36.512
of Al riding down the line. Like, isn't that just Star Wars? Oh, fuck.
00:41:37.332 --> 00:41:39.632
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or a different version of Al riding down the line.
00:41:39.632 --> 00:41:41.492
Hey, these things snap off. That's a fucking great idea.
00:41:42.112 --> 00:41:45.302
And not remembering that it came from a TV show from the late 90s,
00:41:45.302 --> 00:41:48.329
early 90s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a...
00:41:49.074 --> 00:41:52.663
It's a... Like, have one of your characters screaming, there are four lights.
00:41:53.672 --> 00:41:56.870
Yeah. Well, no, yeah. Yeah, but like... I came up with that.
00:41:57.410 --> 00:42:01.186
But I remember a case where before I had read Song of Ice and Fire,
00:42:01.429 --> 00:42:04.632
a friend of mine was at me going, you have to read this book,
00:42:04.632 --> 00:42:05.920
you have to read this book, you have to read this book.
00:42:06.234 --> 00:42:11.793
And he told me about the scene where Danny got the unsullied,
00:42:12.468 --> 00:42:14.230
where she trades away one of the dragons.
00:42:14.618 --> 00:42:17.652
But the way he described it wasn't as it happened in the book,
00:42:17.652 --> 00:42:18.797
nor happened in the TV show.
00:42:19.812 --> 00:42:24.305
Right. It was, or at least the impression I got was that she walked away with the army.
00:42:24.799 --> 00:42:28.272
Turned around and then walked straight back again i went i'm going to use my
00:42:28.272 --> 00:42:33.663
army i'm going to take down this this place rather than going you're dragging you know dracorus,
00:42:34.554 --> 00:42:39.722
so but if i had not never read those books and i say the never tv show never
00:42:39.722 --> 00:42:46.120
happened 15 years later i'm i'm remembering a version of a version of a story yeah yeah then,
00:42:46.652 --> 00:42:51.402
that could be popping my head as a moment of muse yeah yeah exactly and i i
00:42:51.402 --> 00:42:54.626
remember something similar happening in relation to interview with the vampire,
00:42:55.317 --> 00:42:58.986
because when the movie came out the Brad Pitt Tom Cruise movie yeah.
00:42:59.937 --> 00:43:05.654
There were events like those i think it's in part in theater the vampire where
00:43:05.654 --> 00:43:10.106
they arrive in the movie and they're coming down i was convinced i was convinced
00:43:10.337 --> 00:43:13.808
that elements not that weren't even in the book,
00:43:14.636 --> 00:43:19.384
happened when i tried to remember like the movie after i left the cinema and
00:43:19.384 --> 00:43:23.529
kind of thinking about i hadn't seen it more than once at that stage but i was like i had read the book,
00:43:24.134 --> 00:43:28.554
and i was like wait hang on did that happen did they show that in the movie
00:43:28.554 --> 00:43:31.464
i remember something happening and then i went to the book and i was like it
00:43:31.464 --> 00:43:32.673
wasn't there either i was like,
00:43:33.268 --> 00:43:36.494
i can't remember now where i'm getting this idea that this thing happened sure
00:43:36.494 --> 00:43:40.977
sure yeah it's like i'm misremembering both things both the book and the movie
00:43:41.349 --> 00:43:45.924
to create this other event that i was convinced i had read before oh sure yeah
00:43:45.924 --> 00:43:47.154
well i think that's i guess,
00:43:47.794 --> 00:43:53.024
an odd again where the muse goes this happened or this is an idea that you're
00:43:53.024 --> 00:43:56.054
it's almost like plugging in to the source of,
00:43:56.814 --> 00:43:59.082
it clearly so similar it must be the same,
00:44:00.778 --> 00:44:06.565
so yes that is us yeah we're just a quick shot pew pew.
00:44:08.841 --> 00:44:11.954
Sometimes I don't know why I don't know why I come back,
00:44:14.114 --> 00:44:20.824
pew pew just bring it to the end this has been fictional problems and we were
00:44:20.824 --> 00:44:25.314
inspired to wrap this episode up keep watching the skies.