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Speaker 1: Cass up man, little food for yourself life. Oh it's pretty bad. Hey, it's pretty beautiful, man, beautiful that for a little more.
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Speaker 2: Said he You're kicking with full thing with Amy Brown.
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Speaker 1: Happy Thursday, four Things Amy Here and today's chat. I think you're gonna love, especially if you have things to get done that you just really don't want to do, because we're gonna be talking how to trick your brain into getting stuff done that well, you don't want to do, and maybe are things that you actually do want to do but you're not doing them. These brain strategies will work for that sort of stuff too. And I've got my dear friend Claire Carrico joining me. Clara's a licensed speech language pathologist and she's got all kinds of credentials, undergrad at Lipscum, master's degree from Vanderbilt University, shout out go doors. So we were on a walk the other day. Claire and I do lots of walks together. She's a fellow adopted mom. That's how we met. She's come on the podcast before, but I always love her insight on all kinds of things, but especially my brain because that's what she's doing with her patients. All day long as working with them to build their brain back up after any given circumstance that may have caused them to lack some executive function. Is that correct?
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Speaker 2: Yeah?
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Speaker 1: I found a quote for us. Normally, you know, I do a quote with Therapy Cat on the Fifth Thing episodes, but I'm gonna throw a quote out here that just made me smile. It made me think of Claire and I just saw it on Instagram and it said, if you're in a bad mood, go for a walk. If you're still in a bad mood, go for another walk.
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Speaker 2: And sometimes it's a two walk down there you go.
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Speaker 1: You gotta do it. So Claire share with everyone how the idea for us to record this podcast came up because while we were on a walk when it happened, and I think you were talking about the amount of unread text messages that I had and I was like, well, I want to clear them out, but I just haven't.
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Speaker 2: So it is well documented that Amy has an unprecedented number of unread text messages in her phone, and so we were having this conversation and I was like, well, why don't you just sit down and get them done? And she said, I want to I think about it, I just never do. I just don't. So I was telling her about this compensatory strategy that I used with my patients, and.
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Speaker 1: Okay, layman's terms, please, the.
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Speaker 2: Layman's term compensatory strategy is just something that we develop for you to overcome something that's challenging for you. So a strategy you may put in place that's overcoming something that's hard.
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Speaker 1: Which deleting or checking text messages shouldn't be that hard, but there is something when it gets to a certain point and it becomes overwhelming. And that's where some people don't understand, Like they get anxiety seeing the red dots, so they'll clear it out. Some personalities, My brain sees the red dots and I get overwhelmed thinking about clearing it out. So clearing it out gives me the anxiety leaving it be okay.
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Speaker 2: Nothing, it's not hurting anyone.
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Speaker 1: Carry on, what shall we go do next?
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Speaker 2: And if it really gets overwhelming, you just move it to the backscreen so you don't even see it when you open your phone up. It's great. So what I recommended for Amy that day, and I talk to patients about this all the time, is creating what I call time buckets. So it's a set amount of time that you place at the same point every day. Maybe it's at the last thirty minutes before you go to lunch. Maybe it's at the last thirty minutes before you clock out for the day. Maybe it's the first thirty minutes when you get home for the day. But you set a time and it's only going to be thirty minutes, and anybody can do anything for thirty minutes. I mean it's the time it takes to watch a friend's episode. Sorry I dated myself.
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Speaker 1: There, or the office, or younger people watch friends too.
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Speaker 2: Shit's Creek, for example. But you are thirty minutes.
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Speaker 1: What is young?
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Speaker 2: What is young?
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Speaker 1: Yeah?
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Speaker 2: So you take that thirty minutes, you put it at the same time every day, and you have this to do list of stuff you just don't want to do. Call the dentist, clear out text messages, make appointments on the phone. Why will they not let us text them? I still don't know emails It's a two sentence email that you need to write, but you just haven't done it. Anyway, you have this list of things, and you have an actual list, which is important. You need to have a real list, and during that thirty minutes, you're just checking things.
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Speaker 1: Off that list, physically checking them off.
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Speaker 2: Physically checking them off because everybody loves a dopamine hit of checking off something. I put things on my list that don't even require real time. I'm going to do them anyway, like make coffee, and I'm going to do that no matter what. But getting to check that off gives me that little bit of dopamine that encourages me to keep going on my list. So I have thirty minutes. I'm going to do as much as I can on that to do list in those thirty minutes, and then I'm done. And that's the thing that's hard and great about a time bucket. At the end of the thirty minutes, you don't keep going just to like crank through stuff. You finish it, you're done, and you'll do thirty minutes more tomorrow.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I want to focus on that for a second, because you're saying it's really important don't do more than the thirty minutes, because I'm thinking, well, once you get that ball rolling, if you're going keep going with it. But is there reason why if your brain is operating like this, you want to just keep it to the structured thirty minutes.
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Speaker 2: Yes, So you need to make a promise with yourself, because if you say thirty minutes to yourself and then you go in and do an hour and a half, then the next time you're supposed to have a thirty minute time bucket, you're going to be like, oh, but last time it ended up being an hour and a half. So I don't even want to bother with it because I'm not going to be able to stop. And so you're trying to teach yourself that you're trustworthy and you really will only do thirty minutes and then you're going to move on. And even with some of my patients and myself, I put a little treat at the end of my time bucket, like if it's a really creuddy thing that I didn't want to have to do and I've been doing it for thirty minutes, I may be like, you know what, that candy corn right there, that's my treat. And when I'm done with my toime bucket and thirty minutes, I'm.
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Speaker 1: Going to have it that friend's episode, I'll finally get to watch it. There you go, exactly have you ever tried candy corn and peanuts.
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Speaker 2: Oh it's the best. I had it last night at my friend's house.
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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, just make sure because the salty little sweets. Kat and I were talking about food concoctions and a listener emailed in to share that one and I had had it years ago, but I forgot about it and I was like, oh, yeah, that's the oldie but a goodie.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: So just letting anybody else know. Podcasts are weird because you can listen to them at anytime of the year. But it's it's October right now, so candy corn is going to be out and about. So maybe for Halloween put out some candy corn and peanuts. Oh my gosh. Do you imagine if that's what you hand it out to kids? If you made your own little zip block bags of that.
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Speaker 2: I don't think the kids would be happy, no, but the parents would be. I mean, yeah, okay.
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Speaker 1: Well I don't not like I have time to zip block bag my own candy.
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Speaker 2: Anyways, maybe two individual bags of those things that you hand together.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so stick to the thirty minutes. That's what we need to do, yes.
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Speaker 2: And then you're getting the list accomplished and you're keeping promises with yourself. You're only going to do thirty minutes, and then we're moving on and we can do anything for thirty minutes.
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Speaker 1: That's another dopamine hit because you get to be like, do it only for thirty minutes?
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Speaker 2: Check exactly? Okay, yes, yes. The other thing that I find I hear a lot from busy moms, some of my patients, some of my friends, is I want to clean, but I start to do a room. I start to clean a room, and then I get to do other things and then I forget that I was originally cleaning, you know, say my kitchen. So I start clean the kitchen and then I see Stevenson left a sock in the floor, so I'm gonna grab his sock and take it to his room, or take it to the laundry room. And then I get in the laundry room and oh shoot, I forgot to put the washer stuff in the dryer.
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Speaker 1: So is that everybody's brain or just an ADHD brain?
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Speaker 2: I see this across the board, Okay, busy people brain, because.
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Speaker 1: That's one hundred percent me. And on Instagram there's I guess that's my algorithm right now, And I see a lot of videos, and they're always like, you know you have ADHD if you do this. But then I have had some friends that say they act that way, and I know one hundred percent they don't have ADD or ADHD, and so I'm like, well, where does that fall? Like when I was married, this is the only other example of sharing like a life with someone who didn't have it. So that was my biggest indicator of how different our brains were was living with someone for seventeen years. And Ben was a very efficient, affected person. If he started a task, he finished the task and his brain didn't think otherwise. Whereas like he wouldn't go out and start mowing the lawn and then halfway through mowing the lawn start picking a weed, but then realize there's something in the flower bed and it needs to grab that in the garage, and then he realized the garage takes them back to the laundry room. That would be me and the lawn would never get mowed, but like he would go out and mode the yard and be done right. So yeah, I guess that was my apples and oranges Like, so ADHD brain, non ADHD brain. So all brains can do this thing you're talking about, like bouncing from room to room and task to task and then be like, wait where was I And then be like, oh, yeah, I was doing.
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Speaker 2: The dishes two hours ago. I was doing the dishes.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I think it honestly more than adhd brain versus not. It's probably a little bit more female versus male brains. Female brains are always multitasking. We never just singularly do one thing really ever. I mean, think about it. You sit down to watch your friend's episode, You're gonna fold some laundry. You're not just gonna sit there, or you're going to eat your dinner, or you're going.
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Speaker 1: To do Men fold laundry too, Claire.
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Speaker 2: Yes, but they only fold laundry. They're not folding laundry and watching friends. They're just gonna fold the laundry. Oh, everybody in my house has to do their own laundry starting at age thirteen. So we definitely love boys doing laundry around here. But they aren't doing other things. Like they may even do the folding in the laundry room, they're going to go mow the lawn. They're only mowing the lawn because they're only thinking that one thing. I think women in general, we tend to multitask. So say we're cleaning the kitchen and we see that sock. We take to the laundry room. Realize, yesterday we put the clothes in the washer and we need to switch them to the dryer. Now, okay, I'm gonna put everything in the dryer. Oh shoot, I'll just go start another load real quick. Let me run upstairs and get it out of this other kid's room and bring it down. Two hours later. Where were we, Oh, the kitchen. I've never got back there. So my trick for this is seemingly easy and physical. You're going to take a laundry basket. It needs to be something as big as a lawndry basket, and you're going to set it at the entry to that room.
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Speaker 1: And this is what you call the basket strategy.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll call this a basket strategy. You're going to put that at the entry to that so you can't leave that room without stepping over that laundry basket. And launder baskets are big, so we're not stepping over that. It also is the receptacle for all the things that you find that need to leave that room. So the sock that you found that needs to go to the laundry. If you're cleaning a kid's room, all the dishes that they leave in there, whatever, all go in that laundry basket, and you stay in that room and clean it completely till it's done. So you have all your cleaning stuff, your vacuum, everything, whatever you need. Anything that leaves that room goes in the basket without you leaving the room yourself. And then when you're done and the room is clean, then you take your laundry basket and you take everything in that in that basket to where it needs to go. Okay, so you've completed your thing, and now.
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Speaker 1: And you didn't, I'll let yourself leave the room and get distracted and then realize, oh, yeah, I was in my room or whatever. This makes you think of the one touch rule. Have you ever heard of that?
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Speaker 2: Huh?
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Speaker 1: Okay? So it's where you only let yourself touch something once, which I don't know if would work with this because you're touching the item, but I get it. Maybe you touch it and you put it in the basket, and then once it's in the basket, it has to return to its home. So this could fall under the one touch rule. But really it's that if you pick something up, like, go ahead and put it away where it needs to go. Like instead of taking a fork to the sink and laying it down in the sink, take the fork, rinse it in the sink, and put it in the dishwasher or whatever needs to be done. Okay, don't give it an extra step that's not necessary or that's going to make you have to touch it and do it again later.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you could apply that and just say it's the one touch rule in that room. So I'm only going to touch it one time. I'm not gonna put it near the basket. I'm gonna put it in the basket and complete everything and then I'll deal with it after that. So yeah, maybe the one touch rule for within that the confoundes of that room, maybe okay, But I do like that. I feel like my kids could learn from that. We don't have to put things beside the sink. We could actually put them directly in the dishwasher. That would be amazing.
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Speaker 1: Or you don't have to put something like at the bottom of the stairs, take it up to your room. Stuff just piles up. And I'm the one that takes it. It's like, am I Like, no.
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Speaker 2: One understands the stairs situation, not anyone. I'm like, if it's on the stairs, it clearly needs to go up or down depending on where it is. No one understands that but me, how is that possible?
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Speaker 1: No, it's a weird thing.
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Speaker 2: It is a weird thing. But I've even put things in the middle of the stairs. Right now, currently there is a sixteen year old child's hoodie in the middle of the staircase, just waiting, just waiting. But she's walked over it two days worth. And I refuse amy, I refuse to take it upstairs.
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Speaker 1: She'll get it.
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Speaker 2: Eventually, something's gonna happen to that hoodie.
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Speaker 1: You need to do the anchor item thing with her.
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Speaker 2: Maybe, or she's just as stubborn as her mama. That could be it too, So that's the basket strategy. I like the one touch rule too, especially if you are trying to encourage a kiddo. I think that's an easy thing to say, like, hey, just want to touch it. If you already have it in your hand, put it where it needs to be. I had some teachers that I was seeing for therapy, and they would leave their classroom and not have all the things they needed for whatever they were going to do. And so she actually had a basket, not a full laundry basket, but a little basket that she kept by her classroom door, and she would leave like her key card and her keys in it, and she would leave whatever thing she knew she would need when she left that classroom. She would put all those in there, and then when she left the room, she'd have them. So say she had something to drop off at another teacher's class or whatever, she would just have it in that basket. The basket went with her wherever she went when she left the room.
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Speaker 1: Nice, so good tip. Yeah, yeah, just for teachers or parents or anything. Because I'm thinking, Okay, the laundry basket thing could work, but I feel like the basket strategy could work with other types of baskets that you keep around the house.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I have it for my back door. Anything I know I'm gonna need when I leave my house, So I have like a little bag that I can see into and I just put Like if I have Amazon packages to take back to ups, or I have mail that needs to be returned or anything like that, I'll just put it all in that bag, and so when I leave to go out the back door, that bag is there and it goes with me every time.
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Speaker 1: Oh okay, So earlier when we were talking about just the different strategies, since you mentioned the Amazon package, I want you to go ahead and bring up the tip okay for that sort of thing, because whenever I have a return or something to do, I'll put it in my car and then I'll forget it to my car and I'm like, okay, I'll do it tomorrow, and then never gets done. I'll do it tomorrow because it's not normally part of my everyday routine exactly. Obviously, I know how to go places and get things done, but there's just sometimes well if I can put it off, I do because it's just not top of mind.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's that one off, right, It's that one thing that you don't do all the time that you've got to remember to do that you don't always drop off an Amazon package or maybe you do, maybe, but go to the post office is kind of the one that I always think of because we just don't go to the post office very often these days. So say you've got to go to the post office and return this Amazon package. You put it in your basket, you have it with you, you are going to take. I call it an anchor item. The anchor item would be something that is always on your body in one specific place. So maybe it's, for example, my watch. I always wear it on my left wrist. I need to remember to go to the post office when I leave today, and so I'm going to look at my watch, take it off my left wrist, put it on my right wrist, and say to myself, either out loud or just silently, Okay, it's on your right wrist because you've got to go to the post office. And then I'm going to say it again to myself. Your watch is on your right wrist, so you'll go to the post office. Why is your watch on your right wrist because you need to go to the post office because we don't want to forget why it's on the right wrist, and it'd be weird. But that is going to annoy you all day until you get to do that one thing that you don't usually do, like go to the post office. Then you can move the watch back to your left side.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I need to make sure that I remember why I've moved my watch. So because I do this with my ring, I have my pinky ring that I wear with my mom's and it fits perfectly on my pinky and on my ring finger. It does not fit all the way, but it fits down to the middle knuckle and it'll stay pretty snug on there, so I won't lose it. But i'll move it when I have a thought, you know, a show prep idea, or I need to remember to do something. Most of the time it's the show prep thing, and I'll move it over and I'll think, oh, of course, I'm going to remember exactly why I moved it. It's so good, this is good. I just can't write it down right now. And then I get home it just doesn't happen sure enough. I'm like, why did I put my ring there? And I can't think of it. Eventually I may get there, but sometimes they're just lost and it never comes back. So I should my ring back and forth a few times and say the idea to myself, and that will help me remember it. So I should my ring back and forth a few times and say the idea to myself, and that'll help me remember it.
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Speaker 2: Or just say it to yourself while you're doing it the one time, but you're saying it repeatedly. Repetition makes a memory. So we're gonna say it a couple of times, three times to yourself. And the more times that you say it, the better it is going to be stuck in your brain. I call it making a memory bigger. So the more times you say it, the bigger your memory for that thing gets.
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Speaker 1: The people ever talk to you about how to remember people names?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm bad at it myself. It's tricky.
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Speaker 1: Well, Claire, let me tell you what a wise woman once told me.
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Speaker 2: You tell me repetition.
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Speaker 1: Is and there is memory.
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Speaker 2: And you know, it's so funny because I can always tell when a person knows that trick about names, because I will introduce myself and then have you ever seen this a personal say your name three entire conversation back to you. Yeah, Like, oh, Claire, that's a great idea, Claire, it was lovely to meet you. Oh Claire, say that one more time. I loved when you. You know, like they're using that repetition strategy to like get your name in their brain, which good for them. It's so smart, and there is a strategy that we use, which is in an additional little memory thing. We call it rap wrap and so it's write it down, repeat it, associate it, and the p is picture it. So everything in there will make that memory just a little bit bigger for your brain. And the bigger memories we can grab onto and remember. So if we write it down, we repeat it, we associate it with something, and we picture it, we're gonna have more likelihood of remembering it.
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Speaker 1: So now I just need to remember that acronym.
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Speaker 2: Sure, it's no problem.
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Speaker 1: Write it, repeat it, associate it, picture it. If I make a song out of it, that will help me. If I wrap it, I would make up raps when I was younger.
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Speaker 2: And you just use the acronym perfect.
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Speaker 1: So I'll be like, you just gotta write it, and then you gotta repeat it. You gotta associate it. Now we sound old. You thought friends made us sound cold, and now we're like and.
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Speaker 2: Picture it. Our kids will be so embarrassed.
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Speaker 1: I know I'll work on a better song, but I do think that that would be helpful, and I do want to remember it because I think that that rap trick will work for me.
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Speaker 2: Last one is super quick and simple, but it's called task stacking. We love to make ourselves sound super smart and strategic with naming these little strategies, but it really is exactly what it sounds like. You're going to stack a new task on top of one that you already do. So, for example, I have an antibiotic or a medicine that I've never had to take in the morning before. I'm going to stick that medicine bottle right on top of my coffee pot, so I can't even fill the coffee pot without seeing my medicine. So I'm stacking that strategy actually literally in this example, on top of something I already do. So if you already wash your face, hopefully you do in the morning, maybe you put your medicine bottle right next to your face wash. So you're just stacking one more thing onto something that's already existing, and that just creates that routine that makes it simpler to remember. So you're task stacking.
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Speaker 1: And so that's something that you're doing that you don't normally do, like an antibiotic, but you wouldn't do that forever, but that's just to help you remember doing it. But I've also heard of that one too, where so you want to add something that is a long term thing. Yeah, but it's just not part of your routine yet, and you'll get used to doing it and then it'll stick, like when it comes to making your bed and stacking that onto brushing your teeth, because you already have brushed your teeth every morning since you right could start brushing your teeth, right, so that's already a thing like, oh, I'll get to brush my teeth as soon as I make my bed.
00:22:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, perfect. Or I know that you guys love journaling. Here on the four things, you might be trying to establish that as like a new routine for yourself. So maybe you whatever part of your day you're trying to make journaling a part of you, put it with the other things that go with that part of the coffee, the coffee, right, So I'm going to put the journal right next to my favorite mug, so in the morning when I'm make my coffee, there's my journal and I'm just gonna have it all there together. So stacking that right there until it becomes a routine.
00:22:58
Speaker 1: I like that one. And then what about you seeing, like Siri Alexa, all of those kinds of things to help with getting things done.
00:23:06
Speaker 2: Yeah. So one of the things that I find tricky is for someone who maybe has some short term memory problems or working memory trouble ADHD. Even this stopping a task to write down something might distract them and they will forget what they were doing before they went to write that down.
00:23:27
Speaker 1: One hundred percent.
00:23:29
Speaker 2: So like with this show prep yeah, show prep. Yeah. So if you're show prepping and then you remember, oh, I need to tell Stevenson to do such and such, and I go to write that down, well, crap, where was I in show prep?
00:23:40
Speaker 1: Okay, this will happen to me when I'm in a Google doc and I will be moving things around, so I will cut and paste, and I cut and I go to where I want to paste, but then I see something where I want to paste that I want to kind of fix and work on, so I start TEP TEP type tep typing. Well, when you do that, the only way to.
00:24:03
Speaker 2: Get back to what you cut is undue.
00:24:05
Speaker 1: Right. I've done this a lot recently and it's very frustrating, but yes, you just have to look at the work you've done and be like, okay, undo, undo, and eventually you make it back to what you cut. Originally, and then you start from there and I'm like, this is a huge waste of times, and then I have to go redo. Yes, but I'm like, why why didn't my brain just paste it? It was a Google doc. I was going from point A to point B, and by the time I got to point B, which was probably as fast as I just snapped my finger. Yes, I moved on to something else.
00:24:39
Speaker 2: That's working memory. That's what that's called. When you have like you're just trying to hold something in your brain for just a short amount of time and then you're gonna discharge it and put it somewhere, and kind of like when we get those codes in our phones and you know, use this code to open this, and here's this five digits and you need to remember same thing. Your working memory is just not doing its best work at that time. So I like to have my patients start using You know, if you don't know, you can make Siri work on your phone. You can put it in so that you can voice activate from your phone. You might say, hey, Siri, make me a note to tell Stevenson to clean his room when he gets home. Instead of stopping writing that down and then coming back to your task, which you definitely will not remember where you stopped, what do you cut, and where does it go. You're going to just voice memo that to yourself and then you don't have to stop. Your eyes stay where they were. You've just told Siri to do what you needed her to do. Or Alexa, she works the same. Those things were great. My husband actually told me you can tell Siri to remind you of something when you leave a place. So you can say, hey, Siri, when I leave, Amy's remind me to do such and such, And if you have your location services on, she'll say whatever it was when you leave.
00:25:57
Speaker 1: Oh wow, which is kind of creepy but.
00:25:59
Speaker 2: Also awesome if you want to use her for that.
00:26:02
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was in a Zoom meeting the other day. Therapy Cat and I were with this guy. We're working on a project. It's coming up, can't wait to share, very excited, and I was in charge of the Zoom so being the host, I had to, you know, let him in. And then I saw this thing pop up that his AI assistant wanted to come in and I was like, okay, so I had to approve that. And I didn't think, oh it's AI. I thought maybe it was his assistant named A something a dot I because I had never had a AI assistant join a zoom before. I didn't know that was possible. But all it was doing was listening to our conversation and typing notes for him so that way he could focus on us. He knew there was things he was going to need to go back and reference and remember instead of like going back and watching the video or having me send him whatever. Since I was the host, like you is able to have use of technology is tool join us. I know sometimes you're like, oh AI, but I was like, oh, that's fascinating. I am going to start doing that. And then Kat was even talking about for her patient stuff, which you might be able to use this with your patients. AI can be your assistant and you can talk to it and that way you're not having to.
00:27:22
Speaker 2: Yes, you can transcribe, you can voice transcribe, but.
00:27:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody, get yourself an assistant for your zoom calls to take your notes. Because I thought that was like, really really cool.
00:27:32
Speaker 2: And I love that for the college students that have maybe ADHD or have or struggle with divided attention. So listening to somebody and also writing is really challenging. They can't do either one well if they're trying to do both. So that would be so smart to be able to have an AI that you turn on your phone with this AI assistant and it takes your notes for you. Oh yeah, that could be a game changer for some college students.
00:27:56
Speaker 1: That would have been for me.
00:27:58
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:27:58
Speaker 1: Well, Claire, thank you for these these four brain strategies. The time buckets, the basket strategy, the anchor item, and the task stacking. We wanted to keep it simple because we want to overwhelm. Because if you're already struggling to get things done, lord those you don't need a long list of things to try to keep up with. But maybe one or all of these things will be helpful for you. And Claire, I'm thankful that you had this idea when we were on our walk because I know a lot of my listeners enjoy any tips and tricks. Yes, and I like doing it with friends. They're also experts, and we get to spend our time together differently. Are we going to walk soon? What?
00:28:38
Speaker 2: Hopefully? Hopefully?
00:28:39
Speaker 1: Friday? This weather Friday, Friday, It's beautiful, Okay, I can do Friday, all right?
00:28:42
Speaker 2: Talk to you later Thanks guys, Bye bye,
Speaker 1: Cass up man, little food for yourself life. Oh it's pretty bad. Hey, it's pretty beautiful, man, beautiful that for a little more.
00:00:27
Speaker 2: Said he You're kicking with full thing with Amy Brown.
00:00:32
Speaker 1: Happy Thursday, four Things Amy Here and today's chat. I think you're gonna love, especially if you have things to get done that you just really don't want to do, because we're gonna be talking how to trick your brain into getting stuff done that well, you don't want to do, and maybe are things that you actually do want to do but you're not doing them. These brain strategies will work for that sort of stuff too. And I've got my dear friend Claire Carrico joining me. Clara's a licensed speech language pathologist and she's got all kinds of credentials, undergrad at Lipscum, master's degree from Vanderbilt University, shout out go doors. So we were on a walk the other day. Claire and I do lots of walks together. She's a fellow adopted mom. That's how we met. She's come on the podcast before, but I always love her insight on all kinds of things, but especially my brain because that's what she's doing with her patients. All day long as working with them to build their brain back up after any given circumstance that may have caused them to lack some executive function. Is that correct?
00:01:38
Speaker 2: Yeah?
00:01:39
Speaker 1: I found a quote for us. Normally, you know, I do a quote with Therapy Cat on the Fifth Thing episodes, but I'm gonna throw a quote out here that just made me smile. It made me think of Claire and I just saw it on Instagram and it said, if you're in a bad mood, go for a walk. If you're still in a bad mood, go for another walk.
00:01:58
Speaker 2: And sometimes it's a two walk down there you go.
00:02:01
Speaker 1: You gotta do it. So Claire share with everyone how the idea for us to record this podcast came up because while we were on a walk when it happened, and I think you were talking about the amount of unread text messages that I had and I was like, well, I want to clear them out, but I just haven't.
00:02:17
Speaker 2: So it is well documented that Amy has an unprecedented number of unread text messages in her phone, and so we were having this conversation and I was like, well, why don't you just sit down and get them done? And she said, I want to I think about it, I just never do. I just don't. So I was telling her about this compensatory strategy that I used with my patients, and.
00:02:43
Speaker 1: Okay, layman's terms, please, the.
00:02:45
Speaker 2: Layman's term compensatory strategy is just something that we develop for you to overcome something that's challenging for you. So a strategy you may put in place that's overcoming something that's hard.
00:02:56
Speaker 1: Which deleting or checking text messages shouldn't be that hard, but there is something when it gets to a certain point and it becomes overwhelming. And that's where some people don't understand, Like they get anxiety seeing the red dots, so they'll clear it out. Some personalities, My brain sees the red dots and I get overwhelmed thinking about clearing it out. So clearing it out gives me the anxiety leaving it be okay.
00:03:23
Speaker 2: Nothing, it's not hurting anyone.
00:03:24
Speaker 1: Carry on, what shall we go do next?
00:03:27
Speaker 2: And if it really gets overwhelming, you just move it to the backscreen so you don't even see it when you open your phone up. It's great. So what I recommended for Amy that day, and I talk to patients about this all the time, is creating what I call time buckets. So it's a set amount of time that you place at the same point every day. Maybe it's at the last thirty minutes before you go to lunch. Maybe it's at the last thirty minutes before you clock out for the day. Maybe it's the first thirty minutes when you get home for the day. But you set a time and it's only going to be thirty minutes, and anybody can do anything for thirty minutes. I mean it's the time it takes to watch a friend's episode. Sorry I dated myself.
00:04:08
Speaker 1: There, or the office, or younger people watch friends too.
00:04:13
Speaker 2: Shit's Creek, for example. But you are thirty minutes.
00:04:15
Speaker 1: What is young?
00:04:16
Speaker 2: What is young?
00:04:17
Speaker 1: Yeah?
00:04:18
Speaker 2: So you take that thirty minutes, you put it at the same time every day, and you have this to do list of stuff you just don't want to do. Call the dentist, clear out text messages, make appointments on the phone. Why will they not let us text them? I still don't know emails It's a two sentence email that you need to write, but you just haven't done it. Anyway, you have this list of things, and you have an actual list, which is important. You need to have a real list, and during that thirty minutes, you're just checking things.
00:04:46
Speaker 1: Off that list, physically checking them off.
00:04:49
Speaker 2: Physically checking them off because everybody loves a dopamine hit of checking off something. I put things on my list that don't even require real time. I'm going to do them anyway, like make coffee, and I'm going to do that no matter what. But getting to check that off gives me that little bit of dopamine that encourages me to keep going on my list. So I have thirty minutes. I'm going to do as much as I can on that to do list in those thirty minutes, and then I'm done. And that's the thing that's hard and great about a time bucket. At the end of the thirty minutes, you don't keep going just to like crank through stuff. You finish it, you're done, and you'll do thirty minutes more tomorrow.
00:05:27
Speaker 1: Okay, I want to focus on that for a second, because you're saying it's really important don't do more than the thirty minutes, because I'm thinking, well, once you get that ball rolling, if you're going keep going with it. But is there reason why if your brain is operating like this, you want to just keep it to the structured thirty minutes.
00:05:45
Speaker 2: Yes, So you need to make a promise with yourself, because if you say thirty minutes to yourself and then you go in and do an hour and a half, then the next time you're supposed to have a thirty minute time bucket, you're going to be like, oh, but last time it ended up being an hour and a half. So I don't even want to bother with it because I'm not going to be able to stop. And so you're trying to teach yourself that you're trustworthy and you really will only do thirty minutes and then you're going to move on. And even with some of my patients and myself, I put a little treat at the end of my time bucket, like if it's a really creuddy thing that I didn't want to have to do and I've been doing it for thirty minutes, I may be like, you know what, that candy corn right there, that's my treat. And when I'm done with my toime bucket and thirty minutes, I'm.
00:06:26
Speaker 1: Going to have it that friend's episode, I'll finally get to watch it. There you go, exactly have you ever tried candy corn and peanuts.
00:06:31
Speaker 2: Oh it's the best. I had it last night at my friend's house.
00:06:34
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, just make sure because the salty little sweets. Kat and I were talking about food concoctions and a listener emailed in to share that one and I had had it years ago, but I forgot about it and I was like, oh, yeah, that's the oldie but a goodie.
00:06:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:06:47
Speaker 1: So just letting anybody else know. Podcasts are weird because you can listen to them at anytime of the year. But it's it's October right now, so candy corn is going to be out and about. So maybe for Halloween put out some candy corn and peanuts. Oh my gosh. Do you imagine if that's what you hand it out to kids? If you made your own little zip block bags of that.
00:07:04
Speaker 2: I don't think the kids would be happy, no, but the parents would be. I mean, yeah, okay.
00:07:08
Speaker 1: Well I don't not like I have time to zip block bag my own candy.
00:07:12
Speaker 2: Anyways, maybe two individual bags of those things that you hand together.
00:07:16
Speaker 1: Okay, so stick to the thirty minutes. That's what we need to do, yes.
00:07:20
Speaker 2: And then you're getting the list accomplished and you're keeping promises with yourself. You're only going to do thirty minutes, and then we're moving on and we can do anything for thirty minutes.
00:07:29
Speaker 1: That's another dopamine hit because you get to be like, do it only for thirty minutes?
00:07:33
Speaker 2: Check exactly? Okay, yes, yes. The other thing that I find I hear a lot from busy moms, some of my patients, some of my friends, is I want to clean, but I start to do a room. I start to clean a room, and then I get to do other things and then I forget that I was originally cleaning, you know, say my kitchen. So I start clean the kitchen and then I see Stevenson left a sock in the floor, so I'm gonna grab his sock and take it to his room, or take it to the laundry room. And then I get in the laundry room and oh shoot, I forgot to put the washer stuff in the dryer.
00:08:09
Speaker 1: So is that everybody's brain or just an ADHD brain?
00:08:14
Speaker 2: I see this across the board, Okay, busy people brain, because.
00:08:17
Speaker 1: That's one hundred percent me. And on Instagram there's I guess that's my algorithm right now, And I see a lot of videos, and they're always like, you know you have ADHD if you do this. But then I have had some friends that say they act that way, and I know one hundred percent they don't have ADD or ADHD, and so I'm like, well, where does that fall? Like when I was married, this is the only other example of sharing like a life with someone who didn't have it. So that was my biggest indicator of how different our brains were was living with someone for seventeen years. And Ben was a very efficient, affected person. If he started a task, he finished the task and his brain didn't think otherwise. Whereas like he wouldn't go out and start mowing the lawn and then halfway through mowing the lawn start picking a weed, but then realize there's something in the flower bed and it needs to grab that in the garage, and then he realized the garage takes them back to the laundry room. That would be me and the lawn would never get mowed, but like he would go out and mode the yard and be done right. So yeah, I guess that was my apples and oranges Like, so ADHD brain, non ADHD brain. So all brains can do this thing you're talking about, like bouncing from room to room and task to task and then be like, wait where was I And then be like, oh, yeah, I was doing.
00:09:27
Speaker 2: The dishes two hours ago. I was doing the dishes.
00:09:29
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:09:29
Speaker 2: I think it honestly more than adhd brain versus not. It's probably a little bit more female versus male brains. Female brains are always multitasking. We never just singularly do one thing really ever. I mean, think about it. You sit down to watch your friend's episode, You're gonna fold some laundry. You're not just gonna sit there, or you're going to eat your dinner, or you're going.
00:10:01
Speaker 1: To do Men fold laundry too, Claire.
00:10:03
Speaker 2: Yes, but they only fold laundry. They're not folding laundry and watching friends. They're just gonna fold the laundry. Oh, everybody in my house has to do their own laundry starting at age thirteen. So we definitely love boys doing laundry around here. But they aren't doing other things. Like they may even do the folding in the laundry room, they're going to go mow the lawn. They're only mowing the lawn because they're only thinking that one thing. I think women in general, we tend to multitask. So say we're cleaning the kitchen and we see that sock. We take to the laundry room. Realize, yesterday we put the clothes in the washer and we need to switch them to the dryer. Now, okay, I'm gonna put everything in the dryer. Oh shoot, I'll just go start another load real quick. Let me run upstairs and get it out of this other kid's room and bring it down. Two hours later. Where were we, Oh, the kitchen. I've never got back there. So my trick for this is seemingly easy and physical. You're going to take a laundry basket. It needs to be something as big as a lawndry basket, and you're going to set it at the entry to that room.
00:11:03
Speaker 1: And this is what you call the basket strategy.
00:11:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll call this a basket strategy. You're going to put that at the entry to that so you can't leave that room without stepping over that laundry basket. And launder baskets are big, so we're not stepping over that. It also is the receptacle for all the things that you find that need to leave that room. So the sock that you found that needs to go to the laundry. If you're cleaning a kid's room, all the dishes that they leave in there, whatever, all go in that laundry basket, and you stay in that room and clean it completely till it's done. So you have all your cleaning stuff, your vacuum, everything, whatever you need. Anything that leaves that room goes in the basket without you leaving the room yourself. And then when you're done and the room is clean, then you take your laundry basket and you take everything in that in that basket to where it needs to go. Okay, so you've completed your thing, and now.
00:11:53
Speaker 1: And you didn't, I'll let yourself leave the room and get distracted and then realize, oh, yeah, I was in my room or whatever. This makes you think of the one touch rule. Have you ever heard of that?
00:12:04
Speaker 2: Huh?
00:12:04
Speaker 1: Okay? So it's where you only let yourself touch something once, which I don't know if would work with this because you're touching the item, but I get it. Maybe you touch it and you put it in the basket, and then once it's in the basket, it has to return to its home. So this could fall under the one touch rule. But really it's that if you pick something up, like, go ahead and put it away where it needs to go. Like instead of taking a fork to the sink and laying it down in the sink, take the fork, rinse it in the sink, and put it in the dishwasher or whatever needs to be done. Okay, don't give it an extra step that's not necessary or that's going to make you have to touch it and do it again later.
00:12:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you could apply that and just say it's the one touch rule in that room. So I'm only going to touch it one time. I'm not gonna put it near the basket. I'm gonna put it in the basket and complete everything and then I'll deal with it after that. So yeah, maybe the one touch rule for within that the confoundes of that room, maybe okay, But I do like that. I feel like my kids could learn from that. We don't have to put things beside the sink. We could actually put them directly in the dishwasher. That would be amazing.
00:13:05
Speaker 1: Or you don't have to put something like at the bottom of the stairs, take it up to your room. Stuff just piles up. And I'm the one that takes it. It's like, am I Like, no.
00:13:17
Speaker 2: One understands the stairs situation, not anyone. I'm like, if it's on the stairs, it clearly needs to go up or down depending on where it is. No one understands that but me, how is that possible?
00:13:29
Speaker 1: No, it's a weird thing.
00:13:30
Speaker 2: It is a weird thing. But I've even put things in the middle of the stairs. Right now, currently there is a sixteen year old child's hoodie in the middle of the staircase, just waiting, just waiting. But she's walked over it two days worth. And I refuse amy, I refuse to take it upstairs.
00:13:47
Speaker 1: She'll get it.
00:13:49
Speaker 2: Eventually, something's gonna happen to that hoodie.
00:13:52
Speaker 1: You need to do the anchor item thing with her.
00:13:55
Speaker 2: Maybe, or she's just as stubborn as her mama. That could be it too, So that's the basket strategy. I like the one touch rule too, especially if you are trying to encourage a kiddo. I think that's an easy thing to say, like, hey, just want to touch it. If you already have it in your hand, put it where it needs to be. I had some teachers that I was seeing for therapy, and they would leave their classroom and not have all the things they needed for whatever they were going to do. And so she actually had a basket, not a full laundry basket, but a little basket that she kept by her classroom door, and she would leave like her key card and her keys in it, and she would leave whatever thing she knew she would need when she left that classroom. She would put all those in there, and then when she left the room, she'd have them. So say she had something to drop off at another teacher's class or whatever, she would just have it in that basket. The basket went with her wherever she went when she left the room.
00:14:49
Speaker 1: Nice, so good tip. Yeah, yeah, just for teachers or parents or anything. Because I'm thinking, Okay, the laundry basket thing could work, but I feel like the basket strategy could work with other types of baskets that you keep around the house.
00:15:02
Speaker 2: Yeah. I have it for my back door. Anything I know I'm gonna need when I leave my house, So I have like a little bag that I can see into and I just put Like if I have Amazon packages to take back to ups, or I have mail that needs to be returned or anything like that, I'll just put it all in that bag, and so when I leave to go out the back door, that bag is there and it goes with me every time.
00:15:25
Speaker 1: Oh okay, So earlier when we were talking about just the different strategies, since you mentioned the Amazon package, I want you to go ahead and bring up the tip okay for that sort of thing, because whenever I have a return or something to do, I'll put it in my car and then I'll forget it to my car and I'm like, okay, I'll do it tomorrow, and then never gets done. I'll do it tomorrow because it's not normally part of my everyday routine exactly. Obviously, I know how to go places and get things done, but there's just sometimes well if I can put it off, I do because it's just not top of mind.
00:15:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's that one off, right, It's that one thing that you don't do all the time that you've got to remember to do that you don't always drop off an Amazon package or maybe you do, maybe, but go to the post office is kind of the one that I always think of because we just don't go to the post office very often these days. So say you've got to go to the post office and return this Amazon package. You put it in your basket, you have it with you, you are going to take. I call it an anchor item. The anchor item would be something that is always on your body in one specific place. So maybe it's, for example, my watch. I always wear it on my left wrist. I need to remember to go to the post office when I leave today, and so I'm going to look at my watch, take it off my left wrist, put it on my right wrist, and say to myself, either out loud or just silently, Okay, it's on your right wrist because you've got to go to the post office. And then I'm going to say it again to myself. Your watch is on your right wrist, so you'll go to the post office. Why is your watch on your right wrist because you need to go to the post office because we don't want to forget why it's on the right wrist, and it'd be weird. But that is going to annoy you all day until you get to do that one thing that you don't usually do, like go to the post office. Then you can move the watch back to your left side.
00:17:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need to make sure that I remember why I've moved my watch. So because I do this with my ring, I have my pinky ring that I wear with my mom's and it fits perfectly on my pinky and on my ring finger. It does not fit all the way, but it fits down to the middle knuckle and it'll stay pretty snug on there, so I won't lose it. But i'll move it when I have a thought, you know, a show prep idea, or I need to remember to do something. Most of the time it's the show prep thing, and I'll move it over and I'll think, oh, of course, I'm going to remember exactly why I moved it. It's so good, this is good. I just can't write it down right now. And then I get home it just doesn't happen sure enough. I'm like, why did I put my ring there? And I can't think of it. Eventually I may get there, but sometimes they're just lost and it never comes back. So I should my ring back and forth a few times and say the idea to myself, and that will help me remember it. So I should my ring back and forth a few times and say the idea to myself, and that'll help me remember it.
00:18:35
Speaker 2: Or just say it to yourself while you're doing it the one time, but you're saying it repeatedly. Repetition makes a memory. So we're gonna say it a couple of times, three times to yourself. And the more times that you say it, the better it is going to be stuck in your brain. I call it making a memory bigger. So the more times you say it, the bigger your memory for that thing gets.
00:18:57
Speaker 1: The people ever talk to you about how to remember people names?
00:19:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm bad at it myself. It's tricky.
00:19:03
Speaker 1: Well, Claire, let me tell you what a wise woman once told me.
00:19:06
Speaker 2: You tell me repetition.
00:19:08
Speaker 1: Is and there is memory.
00:19:10
Speaker 2: And you know, it's so funny because I can always tell when a person knows that trick about names, because I will introduce myself and then have you ever seen this a personal say your name three entire conversation back to you. Yeah, Like, oh, Claire, that's a great idea, Claire, it was lovely to meet you. Oh Claire, say that one more time. I loved when you. You know, like they're using that repetition strategy to like get your name in their brain, which good for them. It's so smart, and there is a strategy that we use, which is in an additional little memory thing. We call it rap wrap and so it's write it down, repeat it, associate it, and the p is picture it. So everything in there will make that memory just a little bit bigger for your brain. And the bigger memories we can grab onto and remember. So if we write it down, we repeat it, we associate it with something, and we picture it, we're gonna have more likelihood of remembering it.
00:20:11
Speaker 1: So now I just need to remember that acronym.
00:20:13
Speaker 2: Sure, it's no problem.
00:20:15
Speaker 1: Write it, repeat it, associate it, picture it. If I make a song out of it, that will help me. If I wrap it, I would make up raps when I was younger.
00:20:25
Speaker 2: And you just use the acronym perfect.
00:20:27
Speaker 1: So I'll be like, you just gotta write it, and then you gotta repeat it. You gotta associate it. Now we sound old. You thought friends made us sound cold, and now we're like and.
00:20:42
Speaker 2: Picture it. Our kids will be so embarrassed.
00:20:46
Speaker 1: I know I'll work on a better song, but I do think that that would be helpful, and I do want to remember it because I think that that rap trick will work for me.
00:20:56
Speaker 2: Last one is super quick and simple, but it's called task stacking. We love to make ourselves sound super smart and strategic with naming these little strategies, but it really is exactly what it sounds like. You're going to stack a new task on top of one that you already do. So, for example, I have an antibiotic or a medicine that I've never had to take in the morning before. I'm going to stick that medicine bottle right on top of my coffee pot, so I can't even fill the coffee pot without seeing my medicine. So I'm stacking that strategy actually literally in this example, on top of something I already do. So if you already wash your face, hopefully you do in the morning, maybe you put your medicine bottle right next to your face wash. So you're just stacking one more thing onto something that's already existing, and that just creates that routine that makes it simpler to remember. So you're task stacking.
00:21:55
Speaker 1: And so that's something that you're doing that you don't normally do, like an antibiotic, but you wouldn't do that forever, but that's just to help you remember doing it. But I've also heard of that one too, where so you want to add something that is a long term thing. Yeah, but it's just not part of your routine yet, and you'll get used to doing it and then it'll stick, like when it comes to making your bed and stacking that onto brushing your teeth, because you already have brushed your teeth every morning since you right could start brushing your teeth, right, so that's already a thing like, oh, I'll get to brush my teeth as soon as I make my bed.
00:22:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, perfect. Or I know that you guys love journaling. Here on the four things, you might be trying to establish that as like a new routine for yourself. So maybe you whatever part of your day you're trying to make journaling a part of you, put it with the other things that go with that part of the coffee, the coffee, right, So I'm going to put the journal right next to my favorite mug, so in the morning when I'm make my coffee, there's my journal and I'm just gonna have it all there together. So stacking that right there until it becomes a routine.
00:22:58
Speaker 1: I like that one. And then what about you seeing, like Siri Alexa, all of those kinds of things to help with getting things done.
00:23:06
Speaker 2: Yeah. So one of the things that I find tricky is for someone who maybe has some short term memory problems or working memory trouble ADHD. Even this stopping a task to write down something might distract them and they will forget what they were doing before they went to write that down.
00:23:27
Speaker 1: One hundred percent.
00:23:29
Speaker 2: So like with this show prep yeah, show prep. Yeah. So if you're show prepping and then you remember, oh, I need to tell Stevenson to do such and such, and I go to write that down, well, crap, where was I in show prep?
00:23:40
Speaker 1: Okay, this will happen to me when I'm in a Google doc and I will be moving things around, so I will cut and paste, and I cut and I go to where I want to paste, but then I see something where I want to paste that I want to kind of fix and work on, so I start TEP TEP type tep typing. Well, when you do that, the only way to.
00:24:03
Speaker 2: Get back to what you cut is undue.
00:24:05
Speaker 1: Right. I've done this a lot recently and it's very frustrating, but yes, you just have to look at the work you've done and be like, okay, undo, undo, and eventually you make it back to what you cut. Originally, and then you start from there and I'm like, this is a huge waste of times, and then I have to go redo. Yes, but I'm like, why why didn't my brain just paste it? It was a Google doc. I was going from point A to point B, and by the time I got to point B, which was probably as fast as I just snapped my finger. Yes, I moved on to something else.
00:24:39
Speaker 2: That's working memory. That's what that's called. When you have like you're just trying to hold something in your brain for just a short amount of time and then you're gonna discharge it and put it somewhere, and kind of like when we get those codes in our phones and you know, use this code to open this, and here's this five digits and you need to remember same thing. Your working memory is just not doing its best work at that time. So I like to have my patients start using You know, if you don't know, you can make Siri work on your phone. You can put it in so that you can voice activate from your phone. You might say, hey, Siri, make me a note to tell Stevenson to clean his room when he gets home. Instead of stopping writing that down and then coming back to your task, which you definitely will not remember where you stopped, what do you cut, and where does it go. You're going to just voice memo that to yourself and then you don't have to stop. Your eyes stay where they were. You've just told Siri to do what you needed her to do. Or Alexa, she works the same. Those things were great. My husband actually told me you can tell Siri to remind you of something when you leave a place. So you can say, hey, Siri, when I leave, Amy's remind me to do such and such, And if you have your location services on, she'll say whatever it was when you leave.
00:25:57
Speaker 1: Oh wow, which is kind of creepy but.
00:25:59
Speaker 2: Also awesome if you want to use her for that.
00:26:02
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was in a Zoom meeting the other day. Therapy Cat and I were with this guy. We're working on a project. It's coming up, can't wait to share, very excited, and I was in charge of the Zoom so being the host, I had to, you know, let him in. And then I saw this thing pop up that his AI assistant wanted to come in and I was like, okay, so I had to approve that. And I didn't think, oh it's AI. I thought maybe it was his assistant named A something a dot I because I had never had a AI assistant join a zoom before. I didn't know that was possible. But all it was doing was listening to our conversation and typing notes for him so that way he could focus on us. He knew there was things he was going to need to go back and reference and remember instead of like going back and watching the video or having me send him whatever. Since I was the host, like you is able to have use of technology is tool join us. I know sometimes you're like, oh AI, but I was like, oh, that's fascinating. I am going to start doing that. And then Kat was even talking about for her patient stuff, which you might be able to use this with your patients. AI can be your assistant and you can talk to it and that way you're not having to.
00:27:22
Speaker 2: Yes, you can transcribe, you can voice transcribe, but.
00:27:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody, get yourself an assistant for your zoom calls to take your notes. Because I thought that was like, really really cool.
00:27:32
Speaker 2: And I love that for the college students that have maybe ADHD or have or struggle with divided attention. So listening to somebody and also writing is really challenging. They can't do either one well if they're trying to do both. So that would be so smart to be able to have an AI that you turn on your phone with this AI assistant and it takes your notes for you. Oh yeah, that could be a game changer for some college students.
00:27:56
Speaker 1: That would have been for me.
00:27:58
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:27:58
Speaker 1: Well, Claire, thank you for these these four brain strategies. The time buckets, the basket strategy, the anchor item, and the task stacking. We wanted to keep it simple because we want to overwhelm. Because if you're already struggling to get things done, lord those you don't need a long list of things to try to keep up with. But maybe one or all of these things will be helpful for you. And Claire, I'm thankful that you had this idea when we were on our walk because I know a lot of my listeners enjoy any tips and tricks. Yes, and I like doing it with friends. They're also experts, and we get to spend our time together differently. Are we going to walk soon? What?
00:28:38
Speaker 2: Hopefully? Hopefully?
00:28:39
Speaker 1: Friday? This weather Friday, Friday, It's beautiful, Okay, I can do Friday, all right?
00:28:42
Speaker 2: Talk to you later Thanks guys, Bye bye,
