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Welcome to FEDSOC Forums, a podcast of the Federal Society's
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practice groups. I'm Ny kas Merrick, vice President and Director
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of Practice Groups at the Federal Society. For exclusive access
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to live recordings of fedsock Forum programs, become a Federal
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Society member today at fedsoc dot org.
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Hello everyone, and welcome to this Federal Society of virtual event.
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My name is Marco J. Lloyd, and I'm Assistant Director
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of Practice Groups for the Federalist Society. Today we're excited
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to host a litigation update on d Marve Evanston Scochie's
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School District sixty five featuring Kimberly Herman. Kim serves as
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executive director for Southeastern Legal Foundation, where she has worked
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since two thousand and nine. At SLF, she advances a
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liberty through litigation in federal and state trial and depellate
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courts on issues ranging from government overreach, free speech, property rights,
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and economic liberty. In addition to representing clients, Kim testifies
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before a state legislature as her as Model legislation and
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regularly publishes legal articles. Her work is regularly covered by
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national media, and you'll frequently see her on radio podcasts
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and television. She earned her bachelor's at Wake Forest University
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and her jd at Georgia State University College of Law.
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If you'd like to learn more about today's speaker or
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full bio can be viewed on our.
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Website fedsoft dot org.
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If you have a question at any point today's program,
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please enter into the Q and a function at the
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bottom reversum window. We will do our best to answer
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as many as we can. Finally, on that, as always,
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the Federal Society takes no position on particular legal or
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public policy issues, and all expressions opinion are those of
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the speaker. With that, Kim, thank you for joining us today,
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and the floor is yours.
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Great, thank you for having me today. So today we're
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going to talk about one of Southeastern legal foundations lawsuits
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dMar versus Just District sixty five, which is a school
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district located in Evanston, Illinois. This is a fact intensive
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case and it has been going on for a very
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long time, and so I thought that what might make
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the most sense is to start with the facts, because
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without the facts, we really have absolutely no case. Here.
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The legal issues that we're going to talk about surround
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the equal protection clause and Title six. They're actually fairly straightforward,
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so we'll get into those a little bit at the end.
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And then I know this is a litigation update on
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specifically the d Mar case, but there has been a
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lot of action out of the Department of Education with
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Title six, specifically launching investigations into other potential violations. And
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so at the end, before we do Q and A,
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I want to bring some of those to your attention,
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just to make sure that they're on your radar, especially
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if you're litigating these types of issues. So with that,
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let's dive into the story of doctor d Mar. It
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starts ten years ago, in twenty fifteen, and this was
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obviously long before our country was talking about things like
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critical race theory, radical gender ideology. I know that it
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was years before even myself as a parent, realized that
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we were going to be in the middle of our
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generation's biggest fight, which is to save America's schools for
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our children. The legal challenge and battle has now spanned
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three presidential administrations, but it really started back, like I said,
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in twenty fifteen, when District sixty five released a strategic
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plan that set a goal that by the year twenty
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twenty its schools would be quote marked by equity in
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just two years. By twenty seventeen, the school district had
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instituted programs, policies, training, and curriculum that began to actually
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reflect this commitment. Through some of the policies, the school
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district vowed to identify institutional racism, which it claims creates
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advantages for whites and oppression and disadvantages for people of color.
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It instituted a Racial and Educational Equity policy in which
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the district committed itself to focusing on race as one
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of the first visible indicators of identity. This can be
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found on its website. It also made clear that it
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viewed equity as distinct from equality. In the districts definitions
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and words, it views equity, which is its key goal,
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to be about fairness, justice and individuals getting what they
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need and deserve, and equality about sameness and treating everyone
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in an identical manner, regardless of their differences. Now, these
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definitions are significant because the school district here is committing
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itself to equity while at the same time rejecting the
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ideas of color blindness and equality. And we're going to
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talk about some of the facts that show that. One
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thing I also want to mention that I probably should
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have said before I started diving into the facts, is
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that some of these facts may seem far fetched, they
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may seem exaggerated, but all of these facts are substantiated.
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They can be found linked in various complaint documents that
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we filed that we'll talk about when we talk about
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the legal posture of this case, or they can be
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found on the school district's website itself. They've all been
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permal linked, they can all be viewed. The school district
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puts all of this information out there, allowed and proud.
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So the school district, after instituting these policies, beginning in
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twenty seventeen, they started requiring equity trainings of their teachers.
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They called this the Byond Diversity Seminar and use the
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Courageous Conversations Training program that if you work in this area,
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if you work in the K through twelve space, you
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have no doubt heard of courageous conversations. In this it
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sets forth four agreements surrounding equity and racial issues and
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six conditions that all teachers and employees are expected to
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comply with as they take the lessons that they learn
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in this training and go out into the school district.
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We can't cover everything that's in these trainings, their day
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long trainings, multiple day long trainings. Excuse me, but they
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teach things like white people dominate conversations, that white people
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are allowed authoritative and controlling, and it urged our the
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white teachers to acknowledge their white privilege in these trainings.
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I give just those three examples to show that every
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single lesson in these trainings really does as it's intended
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to focus specifically on race, and not just on race,
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but on racial differences and why we need to be
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looking at skin color and treating people differently because of
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their skin color. After these trainings, the lessons continued through
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segregated staff meetings. Now, when we say segregated staff meetings,
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we're not talking about necessarily the voluntary affinity groups that
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in twenty twenty five we actually tend to see that
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version of segregation in a lot of school districts throughout
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this country. This was actually mandatory racial segregation. So in
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these staff meetings, and there were multiple of these, I
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think by our account there were at least eight in
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one single school year, staff were directed to go to
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different rooms based on their skin color. So in an email,
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and when you arrived at the training, the white teachers
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were told to go into one room, the non white
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teachers were told to go into another room, and they
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were taught concepts of equity. They were taught about racial
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issues in these trainings. So we're not necessarily talking about
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a training about how how to teach a certain method
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of reading to students or the Socratic method, right, We're
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talking about trainings on equity DEI racial issues. In these
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the staff was told and asked to share stories about
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how racism has affected their life, automatically assuming that it
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had affected all of their lives. They were given surveys
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where they were asked and required to answer questions about
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what is their understanding of white fragility, what is the
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result of these affinity meetings, and how are you going
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to take those results out into your life and into
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the classroom. Some of these meetings also had segregated privilege walks,
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and so if you're not familiar with privilege walks, it's
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these are activities where all of the teachers are all
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of the participants are lined up, and they're asked questions
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that kind of begin with because of your race, and
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very specific questions about you know, do you come from
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a two parent household, income levels, have you ever experienced
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microaggressions things like that, right, And then at the end,
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the hope of the facilitator, as we can see in
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the dialogue, is that there'd be a divide, and so
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you would have white teachers on one location in the line,
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black teachers on the other, and then they have them
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take additional steps and then they tell them that this
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is the color divide. So again you're physically separating educators
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here by solely the color of their skin, with that
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being the intent of the exercise. So these are things
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that continued all throughout the twenty seventeen twenty eighteen school year.
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They became known to the public at large, and in
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twenty eighteen, Peter kersonal who at the time we had
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was a US Commissioner on Civil Rights, sent a letter
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to District sixty five them unnotice that these activities, expressly
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the segregation that was happening here, we're violating Title six
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of the Equal Protection Claw, Title six of the Civil
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Rights Act and the Equal Protection Clause. Well, the school
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district's response was not to necessarily say WHOA, we didn't
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realize we were violating the law. Instead, they acknowledged that
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they were segregating by race. They defended the practice and
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quote said that this work is critical. And then after
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that letter was sent, they continued to have at least
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seven more segregated staff meetings and affinity sessions that school year.
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So you can see that there's a pattern and practice,
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especially with respect to all of these teacher trainings and
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the staff meetings, segregating the teachers by race. So what
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was happening with the students during this time period, Well,
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District sixty five I was also having affinity groups for students,
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some of them as young as kindergarten, right, and remember
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when we're talking about kindergarten, we're talking about four or five,
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six years old. They had a white affinity group in
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which the white students were taught about white privilege. They
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were taught that they were microaggressors, and they were taught
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that they needed to be allies to their friends of color.
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There was a quote black and brown students that identify
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as hers affinity group for kindergarteners. Also, this continued all
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the way up through eighth grade. District sixty five is
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a pre K through eighth grade school district that serves
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about eighty five hundred students, and all of these eighty
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five hundred students were subject to these racially exclusive affinity groups.
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The privilege walks that I mentioned earlier were also occurring
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in the classroom, and District sixty five instituted a Black
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Lives Matter Week starting in two thousand eighteen that ran
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through twenty twenty two as a specific week. It then
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moved to the full curriculum. We'll talk about that in
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a little bit, but the point of this week, according
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to District sixty five was that they needed to ensure
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that their students understood that our country has a racist
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history that is grounded in white privilege, and that the
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students need to be activists and need to be actively
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anti racist. Those are not my words. Those come directly
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from lesson plans that were used during BLM curriculum, and
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as I mentioned, can be found in the various complaints
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or on some of the District sixty five's websites themselves.
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To go through everything in this curriculum would take us.
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I mean, we could be here for hours and hours
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and we only have about thirty five minutes, So I
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just want to bring one of these lessons to light
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because it really is kind of a stark. It's one
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of those lessons that caught me off guard as a
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parent because I never would have expected to see an
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activity like this in a classroom when we first got
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involved in this case. And in it, the students across
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pre k through eighth grade. You see them reading a
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book called Not My Idea, a book about whiteness. In
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this book, they're taught that color blindness is racist, that
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to treat everybody equally is a racist idea. And at
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the end of the book there's an activity page with
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a white devil holding up a contract that binds you
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to your whiteness, and it gives you the right to
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mess endlessly with the lives of your friends of color,
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and it goes on and on and on, and then
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at the bottom of it, the children are expected to
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sign it. It is put forth as an activity page
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and was used in various classes based on the information
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that we have, this was happening in every subject. In math,
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we saw lessons on diversity and globalism. In pe, there
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were lessons on intergenerational black families, and black villages. In
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science there were lessons on black women and being unapologetically black.
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And in drama there were lessons on black villages and
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the nuclear family, in which the children were taught quote
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that it is important to disrupt the western nuclear family dynamics. So,
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as you can see, this was every subject, every lesson,
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every grade for an entire week, where the children were
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not being taught how to read, how to write, how
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to add, They were taught solely on issues of race
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and being separated through these lessons and being taught these
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ideas that white people are privileged and black people are
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are oppressed. The last piece that I want to cover
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when we move on from curriculum, because again we could
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talk for hours about it, is the discipline policy. So
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we've built upon. We have policies of the school district
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that put forth equity, we have teacher trainings. The teacher
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trainings lead to the curriculum, and then we have discipline
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policies of district sixty five. Now, the discipline policy that
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I'm going to talk about is still in existence today,
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but it specifically requires educators and administrators to consider race
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when putting forth disciplinary plans or disciplining students. It specifically
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makes the commitment to applying the discipline policies and practices
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as to not disproportionally impact students of color, and it
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requires our the educators there to make disciplinary decisions based
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on race, cultural backgrounds, disability, and traumatic life experiences. So
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you can have two students who make the same exact mistake.
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You could have two students that are in a fight
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potentially with the same exact disciplinary history, and they are
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disciplined differently because of their race, cultural background, disability, or
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so called traumatic life experience. So in June twenty nineteen,
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doctor DeMar Our client, who is a very brave drama
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teacher in Evanston, Illinois, she filed a complaint with the
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Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights. The Department of
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Education spent about eighteen nineteen months investigating her complaint an
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ultimately issued a finding in twenty twenty one. In January
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of twenty twenty one that District sixty five did in
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fact violate Title six of the Civil Rights Act. It
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found a couple of things. First, it found that there
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was intentional discrimination. So Title six of the Civil Rights
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Act prohibits a number of things, specifically with respect to
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this intentional discrimination finding, it prohibits schools that take federal
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funding from excluding people from programs, activities, or benefits because
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of the race. It also prohibits schools that take federal
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funding from providing a service or a benefit to a
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student that is different from what you would provide from
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to another student because of their race. Now, the implementing
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regulations of those prohibitions specifically state that schools may not
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subject individuals to segregation or separate treatment in any manner
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related to his or her receipt of a service, a
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financial aid, or any other benefit related to the program. Here,
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what we're talking about with programs is education, it's training,
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it is the educational environment, right, And so the Department
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of Education found that because of the segregation that was
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happening in the teacher trainings, the privilege walks, and affinity
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groups among the students, that there was intentional discrimination happening
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in District sixty five. It also found that there was
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a hostile environment. So Title six also prohibits racial harassment
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that creates a hostile environment. The standard is severe, pervasive,
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and persistent, and the harassment has to interfere with or
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limit an individual's ability to participate in a benefit or
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the services or activities the same list that we just
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talked about that's being provided by the school that's taking
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the federal funding. And so here the Department of Education
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found that it was very concerned about the curriculum, about
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the policies and practices that were happening on a daily
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basis in Districts sixty five that adversely affected the enjoyment
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of the legal term enjoyment the use the education of
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some aspects of the school's educational programs. So that's when
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you look at things in the entirety, and taking all
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the facts that we talked about, plus many many more,
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it found that it was severe because it was it
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was very bad resulting in segregation. It was pervasive and persistent,
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happening all the time, every day throughout all of the
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subjects and all of the grades, and so there was
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a hostile environment that had been created in violation of
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Title six. The Department of Education made one final finding
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here that the discipline policy that we just spoke about
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violated Title six because it illegally directed staff to consider
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a student's race when evaluating a behavioral or discipline situation.
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So it made these three key findings issued its letter
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of finding, and this was January of twenty twenty and
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then President Biden was inaugurated, and several days after the inauguration,
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our client, doctor dMar, learned that the letter of finding
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had been withdrawn by the Department of Education. It did
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not close out the complaint at that time, at least
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it did not notify doctor dMar or us that the
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complaint was closed out, but it withdrew that letter of finding,
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basically saying that the segregation and the hostile environment that
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had been happening was not considered to be a violation
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of Title six anymore. Right, The last part is our interpretation.
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It did not say that because it did not give
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formal notice of this. But that's where things stood. In
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January of twenty twenty one, that is when we Southeastern
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Legal Foundations stepped in and on doctor DeMar's behalf, we
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filed a federal lawsuit in the Northern District of Illinois
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on doctor DeMar's behalf, alleging violations of the Equal Protection Clause,
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alleging intentional discrimination, and alleging a hostile learning environment. All
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of the facts that we just covered were stated in
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the complaint that was the basis for the lawsuit. Again,
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this was filed in June of twenty twenty one. The
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school district, of course filed in motion to dismiss on
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various grounds, and it sat there for quite some time.
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There were some changes in the courtrooms. The judge who
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was assigned to left the federal bench got assigned to
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a new judge, and the new judge ultimately did dismiss
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our lawsuit without prejudice. In the dismissal order, he said
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that we could file an amended complaint with additional facts
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regarding standing, so specifics regarding what meetings doctor DeMar did
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attend and did not attend, and additional facts regarding the
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nature and purpose of federal funding. Here we're talking about
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the title to funding that goes to the entire educational experience,
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including training of teachers. So we did just that. We
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filed an amended complaint. In September of twenty twenty four,
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the school district filed renewed its motions to dismiss. We
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briefed it and it's currently sitting before the judge right now.
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So why are we talking to you all about the case.
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In June of twenty twenty five. If we did that
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in September twenty twenty four, why an update now? Well,
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an update now because we have filed a new complaint
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with the Office for Civil Rights of the Department of Education.
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In the fall, we were notified that the first, the
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twenty nineteen complaint, was officially closed and dismissed. We appealed it,
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but it has since been closed, and so we filed
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a new, renewed complaint re alleging all of the facts
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in the previous one and showing that since twenty twenty
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one to now, all of these policies and practices have
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continued in the district. So staff meetings that are required,
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the courageous conversations beyond diversity training is still mandatory when
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we're talking about what's happening with the kids. In the curriculum.
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The BLM week was ended, and it was ended for
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the purpose of implementing the BLM curriculum into the entire year.
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So now it has been implemented into every grade, in
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every subject, in every day, in every lesson plan pre
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K through eighth grade across the entire district is supposed
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to consider race in some way, shape or form, or
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teach these lessons of equity. There continue to be affinity groups.
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There's at least five currently for students based solely on race,
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and there's many more for parents and families that are
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Those ones are administered through the PTA from what we
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can tell, but they are done on school grounds and
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sanctioned by the school. The discipline program or policies continue.
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They have not been changed, and teachers are still required
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to expressly consider race. At a recent school board meeting
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that was with District sixty five and its high school counterpart,
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District two two, the districts made clear that they were
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going to continue their plans to institute equity. When referencing
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Presidents Trump executive orders that we're telling schools, no more DEI,
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no more Equal Protection Clause violations, no more civil rights violations,
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that this administration won't stand for that, they stated that
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those were not they did not consider those law. They
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told their constituents and that they were not law, and
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that until a court makes a determination, they would not
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be following them. So that makes these this ocr complaint
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and the pending federal lawsuit much more important because it's
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not just District sixty five, but many schools across the country,
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whether we're talking about Title six or related Title nine issues,
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have made it very clear that they're going to continue
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to do what they want to do based on their
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interpretation of the law until a court tells them otherwise.
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So that's what brings us to this update today. Now,
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we filed that complaint and the Department of Education has
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since that was in April, it has since denounced that
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it's has launched an investigation into District sixty five, so
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that investigation is ongoing. We are thankful that this administration
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is taking this seriously. There is no place for segregation
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in this country. There is no place for racial discrimination
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as country. The Supreme Court has made this abundantly clear
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for decades and decades, most recently in sffa versus Harvard,
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where it reminded us that our constitution is color blind
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and that Title six of the Civil Rights Act of
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nineteen sixty four does not tolerate racial preferences. So we
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at Southeastern Legal Foundation are hopeful that our client, doctor DeMar,
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will ultimately get the resolution that she is looking for here,
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which is not money. There are no damages claims being
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brought in this lawsuit other than a nominal damages for
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one dollar, I believe, if I remember correctly, But she's
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not seeking damages. She just wants to stop from being
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forced to discriminate against her students, and she wants the
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discrimination in her school district to stop once and for all,
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because it is not only illegal and unconstitutional, but in
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her view and in our view, it is wrong. So
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the administration is investigating this. They're also investigating a number
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of other similar claims throughout the country that I just
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want to your attention to, because if you're tracking this case,
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you should also be tracking these cases of some of
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our friends. Two of them come from Defending Education. There
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was an OCR complaint filed against the Chicago Public Schools
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dealing with academic achievement programs that exclude students based on
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their race. There is another one out of Fairfax County.
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This is in line with the TJ cases where there's
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admissions policies that discriminate based on race. The Virginia Attorney
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General recently released a report saying that they found there
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were these violations, and Defending Education has filed a complaint
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and the Department of Education has launched an investigation. The
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final one I want to mention to you. Is one
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that comes out of Wisconsin with Wisconsin Institute for Law
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and Liberty, and they brought a They filed an OCR
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complaint because there's a district prioritizing special education services to
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students based on racial priority groups, and the Department has
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a law an investigation into that. I think we're going
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to see a lot more of these brought. It's important
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if you're doing this kind of work that these complaints
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be well pled, that you have your facts and ducks
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in a row. There has been the DEI portal. I
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don't know if the DEI portal is still ongoing, but
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these are distinct from that. These are full complaints, and
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the more facts that can be presented in these OCR complaints,
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of course, are going to give you a higher likelihood
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of the Department of Education actually launching investigations into these. Finally,
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there's a compliance requirement that has been put out by
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the Department of Education. All schools have to certify that
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they're complying with Title six and so that is kind
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of the final piece there. With that, I'm going to
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take a pause here and if there are any questions,
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you guys are welcome to type them into the chat.
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I think I can see the chat, Marco. Let me
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see if I can pull this up. I be able
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to see it. I don't know if there's questions there yet,
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but I'm happy to answer anything about these cases that
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you guys have about the legal posture or the facts. So, Marco,
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I don't know if you're there, if you can see.
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Any questions, I'll get the chat pulled up here, Q
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and A box, let's see. Sorry, my zoom box is
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hidden right now, which is not helpful. Let's see, I Marco,
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if you could maybe talk about maybe raise the questions here.
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I'm having a hard time getting the Q and a. Oh,
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00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:45.039
here we go. I'm having a hard time getting the
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Q and A box pulled up here. I apologize. Let
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me see. Oh here we go. Sorry, my windows closed
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on me and I just found it. Okay. The first
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question here, have you also referred the district's practices to
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the DOJ's Civil Rights Division. We have not done that yet.
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Within it was about one to two weeks of us
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filing the complaint, the Department of Education went ahead and
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launched its investigation, and so we're waiting to see what
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comes of that. And we do have the federal lawsuit pending,
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but it is certainly on the table and is a
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great suggestion to anyone who is dealing with these issues
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or litigating them. The next question is have any parents
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joined as plaintiffs. No, we have not had any parents
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join as plaintiffs. This is something that we discussed back
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in twenty twenty one, and if we can all put
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ourselves in the mindset with the federal lawsuit, if we
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can put our ourselves in the mindset of twenty twenty one,
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the world was a different place. There were many parents
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that came to us that we're in Evanston, Illinois and
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the surrounding areas that said, we don't want this, we
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want this to stop. We've had a polar kids out
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of the schools, but they were all very scared to
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put their name on a federal lawsuit. Now doing this
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every day, being in public interest law, we know the
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reality is that for the most part, when you bring
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these the way, you don't really see necessarily the retaliation
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that is expected or that is you might be concerned about.
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But we do acknowledge that Evanston, Illinois is a different
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kind of place when it comes to this. Our client
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has seen retaliation. When we first filed the lawsuit, there
477
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were rallies that were held against her in the public
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parks that had administrators from the school at it. These
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were live streamed on Facebook, they were covered by the
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local TV stations. She has had more people come out
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in support of her case, of course, in the area,
482
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:57.039
with notes and emails and reaching out to us, but
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00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:00.119
they have been scared to do that publicly. Give in
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00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:03.480
the environment now. Twenty twenty five were in a different time,
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00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:06.720
and so we hope that there's parents out there who
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00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:10.279
would want to also raise their concerns. But for the
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00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:12.200
most part, what we found is that those who do
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00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:14.759
want to speak up about it have left the school district.
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00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:22.119
Somebody says, we have a similar case in the US
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00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:24.960
District Court in Kansas. The curriculum sounds like it's the
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00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:28.960
same or very similar. Do I know if the curriculum
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00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:32.960
is affiliated, So I don't know the actual origins of
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00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:36.519
the curriculum in D sixty five that they used, but
494
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:38.880
these are less and what we do have and what
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00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:41.359
we've linked in all of our complaints are actual D
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00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:44.920
sixty five lesson plans, so they have been created by
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00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.079
D sixty five. They link back to all of the
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00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:52.880
different standards that Chicago as a state, I mean, excuse me,
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00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:55.480
Illinois is a state has put out and that the
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00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:59.440
district has put out linking back specifically to the equity standards.
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00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:01.519
I can say. You know, we've been in this k
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00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:07.519
through twelve fight now, specifically since the fall of twenty twenty,
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00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:10.680
and in all of the lesson plans that have come
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00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:14.559
across our desk, I've never seen as detailed lesson plans
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00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:16.960
as I have in District sixty five with respect to
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00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:21.759
what they're going to teach, links to the powerpoints, links
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00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:25.240
to the videos, links to the books. District sixty five,
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00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:28.559
where is it loud and proud? And so we've had
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00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:31.519
the opportunity to actually see it as parents as to
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00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:38.519
what's happening there. Somebody asked about the blowback against doctor
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00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:42.559
DeMar As. I mentioned what has happened to her in
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00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:45.799
the past. You know, she deals with this every day.
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00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:48.440
She is still teaching in the school district throughout the
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00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:51.119
time of these lawsuits. She went out and got her
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00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:56.279
doctorate degree, and so you know she has pressed forward
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00:33:56.359 --> 00:34:00.000
because at the end of the day, if teachers don't
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00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:02.960
stand up and let parents know what's happening in the classroom,
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00:34:03.559 --> 00:34:07.839
and if parents don't hopefully join in those fights, we
519
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:11.119
aren't going to be able to stop any racial segregation
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00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:14.079
and discrimination that's happening in these school districts. Now, of
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00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:17.639
course these are alleged flat facts, but based off of
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00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:22.280
the twenty one finding that these facts, at least prior
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00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:26.079
to that did actually occur. Right, there's a formal finding
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00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:28.840
here with respect to those facts. We can point to
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00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:31.639
those because we know that this is happening, and it's
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00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:35.480
happening all across our country. It's even happening in red
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00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:39.280
states in certain school districts, and so you know, we
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00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:42.719
all need to remember that our constitution is colorblind and
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00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.400
that when it needs to be enforced, groups are here
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00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:52.679
to enforce it. I've got Let's see a few other
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00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:59.159
questions that have come in here. Let's see a few
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00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:04.559
comments about District sixty five. See those question about the
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00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:09.000
Department of Education largely, and that if the Department of
534
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:12.639
Education has just disbanded, what effect will this have. Well,
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00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:15.440
our laws are our laws. We have our civil rights laws.
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00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:19.079
They are enacted by Congress. The Department of Education, then
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00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:21.559
through the Office of Civil Rights, has the power to
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00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:24.719
go ahead and investigate these and implement them. As somebody
539
00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:28.880
referenced earlier, we have the Office of Civil Rights and
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00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:31.679
we have the Department of Justice, and so it's not
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00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:35.800
just these civil rights complaints that can happen. If these
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00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:40.000
rise to the level that the dojcs fit lawsuits can
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00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:42.800
also be brought there, as we've seen in the Title
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00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:46.320
nine context. And so these fights and these challenges are
545
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:49.239
certainly not going to go away regardless of what happens
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00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:55.760
with the Department of Education as a department. There are
547
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:58.719
some questions in here about timing, when do we expect
548
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:04.760
to get answer and for the investigation to wrap up. Honestly,
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00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:07.559
we don't know. The facts are there. There's already a
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00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:11.800
lot of findings from twenty twenty one. The facts have continued,
551
00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:15.519
The law hasn't changed. Our Civil Rights Act is the
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00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:20.159
same today that it was then. Obviously there's additional guidance
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00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.280
documents and such coming out, but this complaint does not
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00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:26.320
rely on dear colleague letters, It does not rely on
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00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:32.320
guidance documents. It's right there plane black letter law. What's
556
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:35.400
in our Constitution and what's in our Civil Rights Act.
557
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:38.559
And so we would hope and anticipate that the Department
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00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:43.719
moves swiftly and quickly here and that it will issue
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00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:48.239
a finding and that District sixty five will stop segregating
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00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:53.639
students and teachers and stop this racially hostile environment. So
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00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:56.400
with that, I think that's the last question that I
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00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:59.440
see there. Marco. I don't know if you have anything
563
00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:01.360
that you want to write us up, otherwise I will
564
00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:02.159
close us out.
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00:37:04.119 --> 00:37:07.960
Well, thank you Kim for that fantastic presentation and the
566
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:11.239
benefit of your time and expertise today on behalf of
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00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:13.039
the Federal Society. I'd also like to thank you for
568
00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:17.199
audience for joining us. We greatly appreciate your participation. For
569
00:37:17.320 --> 00:37:20.320
more information on more upcoming events, please visit our website
570
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:26.119
or all major social media platforms at FEDSOC. Any final words, Kim, Nope.
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00:37:26.119 --> 00:37:29.119
We just appreciate everyone watching today and keep a close
572
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:30.519
eye on this case. We think it's going to be
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00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:34.039
a big one. Excellent. On that note, we are adjourned.
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00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:35.280
Thank you all again.
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00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.199
Thank you for listening to this episode of FEDSOC forms
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00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:42.440
a podcast of the Federal Societies Practice Groups. For more
577
00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:45.679
information about the Federal Society, the practice groups, and to
578
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:48.559
become a Federal Society member, please visit our website at
579
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:49.960
fedsoc dot org.
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Welcome to FEDSOC Forums, a podcast of the Federal Society's
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practice groups. I'm Ny kas Merrick, vice President and Director
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00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:11.279
of Practice Groups at the Federal Society. For exclusive access
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to live recordings of fedsock Forum programs, become a Federal
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00:00:14.679 --> 00:00:17.160
Society member today at fedsoc dot org.
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Hello everyone, and welcome to this Federal Society of virtual event.
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My name is Marco J. Lloyd, and I'm Assistant Director
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of Practice Groups for the Federalist Society. Today we're excited
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to host a litigation update on d Marve Evanston Scochie's
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School District sixty five featuring Kimberly Herman. Kim serves as
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executive director for Southeastern Legal Foundation, where she has worked
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since two thousand and nine. At SLF, she advances a
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liberty through litigation in federal and state trial and depellate
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courts on issues ranging from government overreach, free speech, property rights,
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and economic liberty. In addition to representing clients, Kim testifies
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before a state legislature as her as Model legislation and
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regularly publishes legal articles. Her work is regularly covered by
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national media, and you'll frequently see her on radio podcasts
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and television. She earned her bachelor's at Wake Forest University
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and her jd at Georgia State University College of Law.
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If you'd like to learn more about today's speaker or
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full bio can be viewed on our.
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Website fedsoft dot org.
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If you have a question at any point today's program,
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please enter into the Q and a function at the
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bottom reversum window. We will do our best to answer
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as many as we can. Finally, on that, as always,
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the Federal Society takes no position on particular legal or
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public policy issues, and all expressions opinion are those of
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the speaker. With that, Kim, thank you for joining us today,
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and the floor is yours.
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Great, thank you for having me today. So today we're
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going to talk about one of Southeastern legal foundations lawsuits
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dMar versus Just District sixty five, which is a school
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district located in Evanston, Illinois. This is a fact intensive
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case and it has been going on for a very
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long time, and so I thought that what might make
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the most sense is to start with the facts, because
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without the facts, we really have absolutely no case. Here.
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The legal issues that we're going to talk about surround
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the equal protection clause and Title six. They're actually fairly straightforward,
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so we'll get into those a little bit at the end.
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And then I know this is a litigation update on
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specifically the d Mar case, but there has been a
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lot of action out of the Department of Education with
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Title six, specifically launching investigations into other potential violations. And
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so at the end, before we do Q and A,
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I want to bring some of those to your attention,
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just to make sure that they're on your radar, especially
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if you're litigating these types of issues. So with that,
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let's dive into the story of doctor d Mar. It
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starts ten years ago, in twenty fifteen, and this was
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obviously long before our country was talking about things like
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critical race theory, radical gender ideology. I know that it
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was years before even myself as a parent, realized that
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we were going to be in the middle of our
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generation's biggest fight, which is to save America's schools for
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our children. The legal challenge and battle has now spanned
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three presidential administrations, but it really started back, like I said,
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in twenty fifteen, when District sixty five released a strategic
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plan that set a goal that by the year twenty
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twenty its schools would be quote marked by equity in
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just two years. By twenty seventeen, the school district had
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instituted programs, policies, training, and curriculum that began to actually
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reflect this commitment. Through some of the policies, the school
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district vowed to identify institutional racism, which it claims creates
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advantages for whites and oppression and disadvantages for people of color.
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It instituted a Racial and Educational Equity policy in which
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the district committed itself to focusing on race as one
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of the first visible indicators of identity. This can be
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found on its website. It also made clear that it
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viewed equity as distinct from equality. In the districts definitions
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and words, it views equity, which is its key goal,
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to be about fairness, justice and individuals getting what they
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need and deserve, and equality about sameness and treating everyone
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in an identical manner, regardless of their differences. Now, these
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definitions are significant because the school district here is committing
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itself to equity while at the same time rejecting the
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ideas of color blindness and equality. And we're going to
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talk about some of the facts that show that. One
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thing I also want to mention that I probably should
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have said before I started diving into the facts, is
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that some of these facts may seem far fetched, they
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may seem exaggerated, but all of these facts are substantiated.
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They can be found linked in various complaint documents that
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we filed that we'll talk about when we talk about
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the legal posture of this case, or they can be
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found on the school district's website itself. They've all been
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permal linked, they can all be viewed. The school district
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puts all of this information out there, allowed and proud.
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So the school district, after instituting these policies, beginning in
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twenty seventeen, they started requiring equity trainings of their teachers.
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They called this the Byond Diversity Seminar and use the
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Courageous Conversations Training program that if you work in this area,
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if you work in the K through twelve space, you
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have no doubt heard of courageous conversations. In this it
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sets forth four agreements surrounding equity and racial issues and
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six conditions that all teachers and employees are expected to
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comply with as they take the lessons that they learn
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in this training and go out into the school district.
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We can't cover everything that's in these trainings, their day
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long trainings, multiple day long trainings. Excuse me, but they
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teach things like white people dominate conversations, that white people
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are allowed authoritative and controlling, and it urged our the
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white teachers to acknowledge their white privilege in these trainings.
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I give just those three examples to show that every
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single lesson in these trainings really does as it's intended
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to focus specifically on race, and not just on race,
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but on racial differences and why we need to be
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looking at skin color and treating people differently because of
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their skin color. After these trainings, the lessons continued through
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segregated staff meetings. Now, when we say segregated staff meetings,
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we're not talking about necessarily the voluntary affinity groups that
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in twenty twenty five we actually tend to see that
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version of segregation in a lot of school districts throughout
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this country. This was actually mandatory racial segregation. So in
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these staff meetings, and there were multiple of these, I
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think by our account there were at least eight in
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one single school year, staff were directed to go to
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different rooms based on their skin color. So in an email,
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and when you arrived at the training, the white teachers
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were told to go into one room, the non white
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teachers were told to go into another room, and they
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were taught concepts of equity. They were taught about racial
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issues in these trainings. So we're not necessarily talking about
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a training about how how to teach a certain method
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of reading to students or the Socratic method, right, We're
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talking about trainings on equity DEI racial issues. In these
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the staff was told and asked to share stories about
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how racism has affected their life, automatically assuming that it
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had affected all of their lives. They were given surveys
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where they were asked and required to answer questions about
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what is their understanding of white fragility, what is the
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result of these affinity meetings, and how are you going
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to take those results out into your life and into
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the classroom. Some of these meetings also had segregated privilege walks,
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and so if you're not familiar with privilege walks, it's
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these are activities where all of the teachers are all
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of the participants are lined up, and they're asked questions
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that kind of begin with because of your race, and
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very specific questions about you know, do you come from
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a two parent household, income levels, have you ever experienced
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microaggressions things like that, right, And then at the end,
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the hope of the facilitator, as we can see in
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the dialogue, is that there'd be a divide, and so
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you would have white teachers on one location in the line,
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black teachers on the other, and then they have them
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take additional steps and then they tell them that this
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is the color divide. So again you're physically separating educators
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here by solely the color of their skin, with that
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being the intent of the exercise. So these are things
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that continued all throughout the twenty seventeen twenty eighteen school year.
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They became known to the public at large, and in
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twenty eighteen, Peter kersonal who at the time we had
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was a US Commissioner on Civil Rights, sent a letter
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to District sixty five them unnotice that these activities, expressly
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the segregation that was happening here, we're violating Title six
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of the Equal Protection Claw, Title six of the Civil
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Rights Act and the Equal Protection Clause. Well, the school
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district's response was not to necessarily say WHOA, we didn't
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realize we were violating the law. Instead, they acknowledged that
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they were segregating by race. They defended the practice and
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quote said that this work is critical. And then after
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that letter was sent, they continued to have at least
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seven more segregated staff meetings and affinity sessions that school year.
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So you can see that there's a pattern and practice,
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especially with respect to all of these teacher trainings and
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the staff meetings, segregating the teachers by race. So what
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was happening with the students during this time period, Well,
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District sixty five I was also having affinity groups for students,
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some of them as young as kindergarten, right, and remember
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when we're talking about kindergarten, we're talking about four or five,
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six years old. They had a white affinity group in
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which the white students were taught about white privilege. They
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were taught that they were microaggressors, and they were taught
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that they needed to be allies to their friends of color.
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There was a quote black and brown students that identify
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as hers affinity group for kindergarteners. Also, this continued all
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the way up through eighth grade. District sixty five is
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a pre K through eighth grade school district that serves
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about eighty five hundred students, and all of these eighty
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five hundred students were subject to these racially exclusive affinity groups.
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The privilege walks that I mentioned earlier were also occurring
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in the classroom, and District sixty five instituted a Black
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Lives Matter Week starting in two thousand eighteen that ran
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through twenty twenty two as a specific week. It then
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moved to the full curriculum. We'll talk about that in
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a little bit, but the point of this week, according
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to District sixty five was that they needed to ensure
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that their students understood that our country has a racist
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history that is grounded in white privilege, and that the
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students need to be activists and need to be actively
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anti racist. Those are not my words. Those come directly
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from lesson plans that were used during BLM curriculum, and
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as I mentioned, can be found in the various complaints
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or on some of the District sixty five's websites themselves.
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To go through everything in this curriculum would take us.
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I mean, we could be here for hours and hours
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and we only have about thirty five minutes, So I
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just want to bring one of these lessons to light
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because it really is kind of a stark. It's one
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of those lessons that caught me off guard as a
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parent because I never would have expected to see an
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activity like this in a classroom when we first got
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involved in this case. And in it, the students across
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pre k through eighth grade. You see them reading a
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book called Not My Idea, a book about whiteness. In
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this book, they're taught that color blindness is racist, that
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to treat everybody equally is a racist idea. And at
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the end of the book there's an activity page with
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a white devil holding up a contract that binds you
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to your whiteness, and it gives you the right to
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mess endlessly with the lives of your friends of color,
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and it goes on and on and on, and then
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at the bottom of it, the children are expected to
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sign it. It is put forth as an activity page
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and was used in various classes based on the information
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that we have, this was happening in every subject. In math,
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we saw lessons on diversity and globalism. In pe, there
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were lessons on intergenerational black families, and black villages. In
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science there were lessons on black women and being unapologetically black.
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And in drama there were lessons on black villages and
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the nuclear family, in which the children were taught quote
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that it is important to disrupt the western nuclear family dynamics. So,
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as you can see, this was every subject, every lesson,
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every grade for an entire week, where the children were
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not being taught how to read, how to write, how
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to add, They were taught solely on issues of race
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and being separated through these lessons and being taught these
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ideas that white people are privileged and black people are
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are oppressed. The last piece that I want to cover
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when we move on from curriculum, because again we could
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talk for hours about it, is the discipline policy. So
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we've built upon. We have policies of the school district
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that put forth equity, we have teacher trainings. The teacher
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trainings lead to the curriculum, and then we have discipline
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policies of district sixty five. Now, the discipline policy that
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I'm going to talk about is still in existence today,
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but it specifically requires educators and administrators to consider race
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when putting forth disciplinary plans or disciplining students. It specifically
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makes the commitment to applying the discipline policies and practices
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as to not disproportionally impact students of color, and it
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requires our the educators there to make disciplinary decisions based
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on race, cultural backgrounds, disability, and traumatic life experiences. So
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you can have two students who make the same exact mistake.
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You could have two students that are in a fight
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potentially with the same exact disciplinary history, and they are
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disciplined differently because of their race, cultural background, disability, or
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so called traumatic life experience. So in June twenty nineteen,
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doctor DeMar Our client, who is a very brave drama
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teacher in Evanston, Illinois, she filed a complaint with the
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Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights. The Department of
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Education spent about eighteen nineteen months investigating her complaint an
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ultimately issued a finding in twenty twenty one. In January
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of twenty twenty one that District sixty five did in
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fact violate Title six of the Civil Rights Act. It
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found a couple of things. First, it found that there
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was intentional discrimination. So Title six of the Civil Rights
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Act prohibits a number of things, specifically with respect to
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this intentional discrimination finding, it prohibits schools that take federal
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funding from excluding people from programs, activities, or benefits because
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of the race. It also prohibits schools that take federal
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funding from providing a service or a benefit to a
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student that is different from what you would provide from
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to another student because of their race. Now, the implementing
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regulations of those prohibitions specifically state that schools may not
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subject individuals to segregation or separate treatment in any manner
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related to his or her receipt of a service, a
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financial aid, or any other benefit related to the program. Here,
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what we're talking about with programs is education, it's training,
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it is the educational environment, right, And so the Department
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of Education found that because of the segregation that was
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happening in the teacher trainings, the privilege walks, and affinity
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groups among the students, that there was intentional discrimination happening
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in District sixty five. It also found that there was
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a hostile environment. So Title six also prohibits racial harassment
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that creates a hostile environment. The standard is severe, pervasive,
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and persistent, and the harassment has to interfere with or
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limit an individual's ability to participate in a benefit or
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the services or activities the same list that we just
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talked about that's being provided by the school that's taking
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the federal funding. And so here the Department of Education
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found that it was very concerned about the curriculum, about
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the policies and practices that were happening on a daily
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basis in Districts sixty five that adversely affected the enjoyment
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of the legal term enjoyment the use the education of
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some aspects of the school's educational programs. So that's when
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you look at things in the entirety, and taking all
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the facts that we talked about, plus many many more,
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it found that it was severe because it was it
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was very bad resulting in segregation. It was pervasive and persistent,
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happening all the time, every day throughout all of the
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subjects and all of the grades, and so there was
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a hostile environment that had been created in violation of
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Title six. The Department of Education made one final finding
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here that the discipline policy that we just spoke about
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violated Title six because it illegally directed staff to consider
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a student's race when evaluating a behavioral or discipline situation.
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So it made these three key findings issued its letter
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of finding, and this was January of twenty twenty and
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then President Biden was inaugurated, and several days after the inauguration,
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our client, doctor dMar, learned that the letter of finding
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had been withdrawn by the Department of Education. It did
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not close out the complaint at that time, at least
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it did not notify doctor dMar or us that the
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complaint was closed out, but it withdrew that letter of finding,
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basically saying that the segregation and the hostile environment that
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had been happening was not considered to be a violation
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of Title six anymore. Right, The last part is our interpretation.
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It did not say that because it did not give
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formal notice of this. But that's where things stood. In
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January of twenty twenty one, that is when we Southeastern
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Legal Foundations stepped in and on doctor DeMar's behalf, we
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filed a federal lawsuit in the Northern District of Illinois
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on doctor DeMar's behalf, alleging violations of the Equal Protection Clause,
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alleging intentional discrimination, and alleging a hostile learning environment. All
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of the facts that we just covered were stated in
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the complaint that was the basis for the lawsuit. Again,
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this was filed in June of twenty twenty one. The
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school district, of course filed in motion to dismiss on
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various grounds, and it sat there for quite some time.
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There were some changes in the courtrooms. The judge who
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was assigned to left the federal bench got assigned to
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a new judge, and the new judge ultimately did dismiss
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our lawsuit without prejudice. In the dismissal order, he said
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that we could file an amended complaint with additional facts
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regarding standing, so specifics regarding what meetings doctor DeMar did
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attend and did not attend, and additional facts regarding the
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nature and purpose of federal funding. Here we're talking about
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the title to funding that goes to the entire educational experience,
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including training of teachers. So we did just that. We
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filed an amended complaint. In September of twenty twenty four,
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the school district filed renewed its motions to dismiss. We
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briefed it and it's currently sitting before the judge right now.
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So why are we talking to you all about the case.
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In June of twenty twenty five. If we did that
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in September twenty twenty four, why an update now? Well,
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an update now because we have filed a new complaint
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with the Office for Civil Rights of the Department of Education.
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In the fall, we were notified that the first, the
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twenty nineteen complaint, was officially closed and dismissed. We appealed it,
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but it has since been closed, and so we filed
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a new, renewed complaint re alleging all of the facts
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in the previous one and showing that since twenty twenty
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one to now, all of these policies and practices have
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continued in the district. So staff meetings that are required,
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the courageous conversations beyond diversity training is still mandatory when
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we're talking about what's happening with the kids. In the curriculum.
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The BLM week was ended, and it was ended for
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the purpose of implementing the BLM curriculum into the entire year.
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So now it has been implemented into every grade, in
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every subject, in every day, in every lesson plan pre
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K through eighth grade across the entire district is supposed
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to consider race in some way, shape or form, or
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teach these lessons of equity. There continue to be affinity groups.
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There's at least five currently for students based solely on race,
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and there's many more for parents and families that are
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Those ones are administered through the PTA from what we
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can tell, but they are done on school grounds and
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sanctioned by the school. The discipline program or policies continue.
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They have not been changed, and teachers are still required
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to expressly consider race. At a recent school board meeting
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that was with District sixty five and its high school counterpart,
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District two two, the districts made clear that they were
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going to continue their plans to institute equity. When referencing
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Presidents Trump executive orders that we're telling schools, no more DEI,
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no more Equal Protection Clause violations, no more civil rights violations,
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that this administration won't stand for that, they stated that
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those were not they did not consider those law. They
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told their constituents and that they were not law, and
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that until a court makes a determination, they would not
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be following them. So that makes these this ocr complaint
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and the pending federal lawsuit much more important because it's
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not just District sixty five, but many schools across the country,
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whether we're talking about Title six or related Title nine issues,
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have made it very clear that they're going to continue
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to do what they want to do based on their
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interpretation of the law until a court tells them otherwise.
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So that's what brings us to this update today. Now,
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we filed that complaint and the Department of Education has
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since that was in April, it has since denounced that
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it's has launched an investigation into District sixty five, so
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that investigation is ongoing. We are thankful that this administration
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is taking this seriously. There is no place for segregation
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in this country. There is no place for racial discrimination
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00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:52.960
as country. The Supreme Court has made this abundantly clear
387
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:58.599
for decades and decades, most recently in sffa versus Harvard,
388
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.720
where it reminded us that our constitution is color blind
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00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:06.400
and that Title six of the Civil Rights Act of
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00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:11.160
nineteen sixty four does not tolerate racial preferences. So we
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00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:15.240
at Southeastern Legal Foundation are hopeful that our client, doctor DeMar,
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00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:19.920
will ultimately get the resolution that she is looking for here,
393
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:23.519
which is not money. There are no damages claims being
394
00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:27.279
brought in this lawsuit other than a nominal damages for
395
00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:31.839
one dollar, I believe, if I remember correctly, But she's
396
00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:36.599
not seeking damages. She just wants to stop from being
397
00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:40.920
forced to discriminate against her students, and she wants the
398
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.440
discrimination in her school district to stop once and for all,
399
00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:48.079
because it is not only illegal and unconstitutional, but in
400
00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:52.119
her view and in our view, it is wrong. So
401
00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:56.960
the administration is investigating this. They're also investigating a number
402
00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:59.640
of other similar claims throughout the country that I just
403
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:02.359
want to your attention to, because if you're tracking this case,
404
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:04.680
you should also be tracking these cases of some of
405
00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:09.640
our friends. Two of them come from Defending Education. There
406
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:13.160
was an OCR complaint filed against the Chicago Public Schools
407
00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:17.799
dealing with academic achievement programs that exclude students based on
408
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:21.960
their race. There is another one out of Fairfax County.
409
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.519
This is in line with the TJ cases where there's
410
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:30.079
admissions policies that discriminate based on race. The Virginia Attorney
411
00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:34.519
General recently released a report saying that they found there
412
00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:38.160
were these violations, and Defending Education has filed a complaint
413
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:42.480
and the Department of Education has launched an investigation. The
414
00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:44.319
final one I want to mention to you. Is one
415
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:47.759
that comes out of Wisconsin with Wisconsin Institute for Law
416
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:51.039
and Liberty, and they brought a They filed an OCR
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00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:55.920
complaint because there's a district prioritizing special education services to
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00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:59.720
students based on racial priority groups, and the Department has
419
00:27:59.720 --> 00:28:02.720
a law an investigation into that. I think we're going
420
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:05.519
to see a lot more of these brought. It's important
421
00:28:05.559 --> 00:28:08.319
if you're doing this kind of work that these complaints
422
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:11.759
be well pled, that you have your facts and ducks
423
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:14.720
in a row. There has been the DEI portal. I
424
00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:18.519
don't know if the DEI portal is still ongoing, but
425
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:22.319
these are distinct from that. These are full complaints, and
426
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:26.720
the more facts that can be presented in these OCR complaints,
427
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:28.759
of course, are going to give you a higher likelihood
428
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:35.039
of the Department of Education actually launching investigations into these. Finally,
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00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:37.400
there's a compliance requirement that has been put out by
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00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:40.640
the Department of Education. All schools have to certify that
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00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:45.559
they're complying with Title six and so that is kind
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00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:49.519
of the final piece there. With that, I'm going to
433
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:51.960
take a pause here and if there are any questions,
434
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:55.799
you guys are welcome to type them into the chat.
435
00:28:55.960 --> 00:28:57.839
I think I can see the chat, Marco. Let me
436
00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:00.440
see if I can pull this up. I be able
437
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:02.519
to see it. I don't know if there's questions there yet,
438
00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:06.279
but I'm happy to answer anything about these cases that
439
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:11.680
you guys have about the legal posture or the facts. So, Marco,
440
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.119
I don't know if you're there, if you can see.
441
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:20.119
Any questions, I'll get the chat pulled up here, Q
442
00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:24.400
and A box, let's see. Sorry, my zoom box is
443
00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:36.640
hidden right now, which is not helpful. Let's see, I Marco,
444
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:40.759
if you could maybe talk about maybe raise the questions here.
445
00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:42.799
I'm having a hard time getting the Q and a. Oh,
446
00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:45.039
here we go. I'm having a hard time getting the
447
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:47.240
Q and A box pulled up here. I apologize. Let
448
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:51.000
me see. Oh here we go. Sorry, my windows closed
449
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:54.799
on me and I just found it. Okay. The first
450
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:58.279
question here, have you also referred the district's practices to
451
00:29:58.359 --> 00:30:04.279
the DOJ's Civil Rights Division. We have not done that yet.
452
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:07.039
Within it was about one to two weeks of us
453
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:10.960
filing the complaint, the Department of Education went ahead and
454
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:16.319
launched its investigation, and so we're waiting to see what
455
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:19.000
comes of that. And we do have the federal lawsuit pending,
456
00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:21.000
but it is certainly on the table and is a
457
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:24.640
great suggestion to anyone who is dealing with these issues
458
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:29.720
or litigating them. The next question is have any parents
459
00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:34.119
joined as plaintiffs. No, we have not had any parents
460
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:38.519
join as plaintiffs. This is something that we discussed back
461
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:41.000
in twenty twenty one, and if we can all put
462
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:44.000
ourselves in the mindset with the federal lawsuit, if we
463
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.000
can put our ourselves in the mindset of twenty twenty one,
464
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.000
the world was a different place. There were many parents
465
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:54.279
that came to us that we're in Evanston, Illinois and
466
00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:58.319
the surrounding areas that said, we don't want this, we
467
00:30:58.359 --> 00:31:00.480
want this to stop. We've had a polar kids out
468
00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:03.599
of the schools, but they were all very scared to
469
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:07.720
put their name on a federal lawsuit. Now doing this
470
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:10.920
every day, being in public interest law, we know the
471
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:14.599
reality is that for the most part, when you bring
472
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:18.000
these the way, you don't really see necessarily the retaliation
473
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:22.640
that is expected or that is you might be concerned about.
474
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.279
But we do acknowledge that Evanston, Illinois is a different
475
00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:30.240
kind of place when it comes to this. Our client
476
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:34.359
has seen retaliation. When we first filed the lawsuit, there
477
00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:37.079
were rallies that were held against her in the public
478
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:40.480
parks that had administrators from the school at it. These
479
00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:44.079
were live streamed on Facebook, they were covered by the
480
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:48.599
local TV stations. She has had more people come out
481
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:51.720
in support of her case, of course, in the area,
482
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:57.039
with notes and emails and reaching out to us, but
483
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:00.119
they have been scared to do that publicly. Give in
484
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:03.480
the environment now. Twenty twenty five were in a different time,
485
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:06.720
and so we hope that there's parents out there who
486
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:10.279
would want to also raise their concerns. But for the
487
00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:12.200
most part, what we found is that those who do
488
00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:14.759
want to speak up about it have left the school district.
489
00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:22.119
Somebody says, we have a similar case in the US
490
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:24.960
District Court in Kansas. The curriculum sounds like it's the
491
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:28.960
same or very similar. Do I know if the curriculum
492
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:32.960
is affiliated, So I don't know the actual origins of
493
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:36.519
the curriculum in D sixty five that they used, but
494
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:38.880
these are less and what we do have and what
495
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:41.359
we've linked in all of our complaints are actual D
496
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:44.920
sixty five lesson plans, so they have been created by
497
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.079
D sixty five. They link back to all of the
498
00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:52.880
different standards that Chicago as a state, I mean, excuse me,
499
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:55.480
Illinois is a state has put out and that the
500
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:59.440
district has put out linking back specifically to the equity standards.
501
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:01.519
I can say. You know, we've been in this k
502
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:07.519
through twelve fight now, specifically since the fall of twenty twenty,
503
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:10.680
and in all of the lesson plans that have come
504
00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:14.559
across our desk, I've never seen as detailed lesson plans
505
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:16.960
as I have in District sixty five with respect to
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00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:21.759
what they're going to teach, links to the powerpoints, links
507
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:25.240
to the videos, links to the books. District sixty five,
508
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:28.559
where is it loud and proud? And so we've had
509
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:31.519
the opportunity to actually see it as parents as to
510
00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:38.519
what's happening there. Somebody asked about the blowback against doctor
511
00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:42.559
DeMar As. I mentioned what has happened to her in
512
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:45.799
the past. You know, she deals with this every day.
513
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:48.440
She is still teaching in the school district throughout the
514
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:51.119
time of these lawsuits. She went out and got her
515
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:56.279
doctorate degree, and so you know she has pressed forward
516
00:33:56.359 --> 00:34:00.000
because at the end of the day, if teachers don't
517
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:02.960
stand up and let parents know what's happening in the classroom,
518
00:34:03.559 --> 00:34:07.839
and if parents don't hopefully join in those fights, we
519
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:11.119
aren't going to be able to stop any racial segregation
520
00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:14.079
and discrimination that's happening in these school districts. Now, of
521
00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:17.639
course these are alleged flat facts, but based off of
522
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:22.280
the twenty one finding that these facts, at least prior
523
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:26.079
to that did actually occur. Right, there's a formal finding
524
00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:28.840
here with respect to those facts. We can point to
525
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:31.639
those because we know that this is happening, and it's
526
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:35.480
happening all across our country. It's even happening in red
527
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:39.280
states in certain school districts, and so you know, we
528
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:42.719
all need to remember that our constitution is colorblind and
529
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.400
that when it needs to be enforced, groups are here
530
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:52.679
to enforce it. I've got Let's see a few other
531
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:59.159
questions that have come in here. Let's see a few
532
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:04.559
comments about District sixty five. See those question about the
533
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:09.000
Department of Education largely, and that if the Department of
534
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:12.639
Education has just disbanded, what effect will this have. Well,
535
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:15.440
our laws are our laws. We have our civil rights laws.
536
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:19.079
They are enacted by Congress. The Department of Education, then
537
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:21.559
through the Office of Civil Rights, has the power to
538
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:24.719
go ahead and investigate these and implement them. As somebody
539
00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:28.880
referenced earlier, we have the Office of Civil Rights and
540
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:31.679
we have the Department of Justice, and so it's not
541
00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:35.800
just these civil rights complaints that can happen. If these
542
00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:40.000
rise to the level that the dojcs fit lawsuits can
543
00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:42.800
also be brought there, as we've seen in the Title
544
00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:46.320
nine context. And so these fights and these challenges are
545
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:49.239
certainly not going to go away regardless of what happens
546
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:55.760
with the Department of Education as a department. There are
547
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:58.719
some questions in here about timing, when do we expect
548
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:04.760
to get answer and for the investigation to wrap up. Honestly,
549
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:07.559
we don't know. The facts are there. There's already a
550
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:11.800
lot of findings from twenty twenty one. The facts have continued,
551
00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:15.519
The law hasn't changed. Our Civil Rights Act is the
552
00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:20.159
same today that it was then. Obviously there's additional guidance
553
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.280
documents and such coming out, but this complaint does not
554
00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:26.320
rely on dear colleague letters, It does not rely on
555
00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:32.320
guidance documents. It's right there plane black letter law. What's
556
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:35.400
in our Constitution and what's in our Civil Rights Act.
557
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:38.559
And so we would hope and anticipate that the Department
558
00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:43.719
moves swiftly and quickly here and that it will issue
559
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:48.239
a finding and that District sixty five will stop segregating
560
00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:53.639
students and teachers and stop this racially hostile environment. So
561
00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:56.400
with that, I think that's the last question that I
562
00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:59.440
see there. Marco. I don't know if you have anything
563
00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:01.360
that you want to write us up, otherwise I will
564
00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:02.159
close us out.
565
00:37:04.119 --> 00:37:07.960
Well, thank you Kim for that fantastic presentation and the
566
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:11.239
benefit of your time and expertise today on behalf of
567
00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:13.039
the Federal Society. I'd also like to thank you for
568
00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:17.199
audience for joining us. We greatly appreciate your participation. For
569
00:37:17.320 --> 00:37:20.320
more information on more upcoming events, please visit our website
570
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:26.119
or all major social media platforms at FEDSOC. Any final words, Kim, Nope.
571
00:37:26.119 --> 00:37:29.119
We just appreciate everyone watching today and keep a close
572
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:30.519
eye on this case. We think it's going to be
573
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:34.039
a big one. Excellent. On that note, we are adjourned.
574
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:35.280
Thank you all again.
575
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.199
Thank you for listening to this episode of FEDSOC forms
576
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:42.440
a podcast of the Federal Societies Practice Groups. For more
577
00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:45.679
information about the Federal Society, the practice groups, and to
578
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:48.559
become a Federal Society member, please visit our website at
579
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:49.960
fedsoc dot org.
