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In this episode of Fearless Conversations, Dimitri and Damian sit down with Cameron Schwab, former AFL CEO turned artist, coach, and leadership thinker. The conversation traces Cameron’s remarkable journey from the pressure of football boardrooms to the quiet practice of fine art, and how both worlds shaped his philosophy of leadership.
The discussion begins with art as a mindful practice and the courage required to create space for interpretation. Cameron reflects on his time at the Victorian College of the Arts, where a teacher challenged him to bring vulnerability into his drawings — a lesson that resonated deeply with his approach to leadership.
From his turbulent childhood and early appointment as CEO of Richmond at just 24, Cameron shares how courage became a learned skill. He talks about the difference between complex and complicated problems, the shift from a “got to” to a “get to” mindset, and the importance of defining reality while giving hope. His long-standing journaling practice — anchored in two questions, What’s important? and What’s possible? — provides a daily rhythm for resilience and clarity.
The conversation moves into authenticity and creativity in leadership. Cameron explains why authentic leadership cannot exist without bravery, and why creativity is essential for leaders facing ambiguity and complexity. He draws on influences from Rick Rubin, Steven Pressfield, and his own legacy in pioneering women’s football, showing how constraint often sparks innovation.
The episode closes with reflections on legacy, human leadership, and the responsibility to create workplaces that balance high performance with high well-being. Cameron leaves us with a powerful reminder: leadership is less about answers, and more about creating the conditions for people to thrive together.
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