The Lighthouse Keeper's Dilemma: When the map changes, what does it take to keep leading?

WEBVTT
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Hello, everyone. I am Anton Musgrave, a partner
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in FutureWorld, and it's my great pleasure to
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welcome you to our next podcast, powered by FutureWorld.
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Leaders all around the world across industries
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are trying to cope with an incredibly complex
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set of factors in guiding their organizations,
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inspiring their people, and delighting their
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customers, given what's happening in the world.
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be it geopolitics that are sort of reframing
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all the rules we thought we knew, technology
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disruption, some of them incredibly exciting,
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some of them really scary. Young people, of course,
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coming to the workforce with a different view
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of how to live, how to do things, and the limits
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and capability of things like artificial intelligence.
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But we're incredibly fortunate to have in the
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studio with us today my co -host Nomvula Omaruaye
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and two leading CEOs in South Africa. We have
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Nick Grubb and Vera Nagtegaal, folks, and we're
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looking forward to them sharing their wisdom
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with us as we engage in understanding how leaders
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need to think, behave, and respond to what's
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happening in the world around us, drawing on
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their immense expertise and experience and, dare
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I say it, success in the past. For this episode,
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and my co -host Nomvula will be telling you more
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about it, but we're exploring... the lighthouse
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paradigm, if you like. We have developed in Future
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World five new lenses to look at this complexity
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of the world and to filter out the noise and
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to identify the opportunity. And the current
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mental model that we're using today is that of
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the lighthouse. originally designed to warn sailors
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and navigators across the oceans of danger spots,
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of rocks to look out for, failing which we all
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understand the consequences. But of course, in
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this world of disruption, not even lighthouses
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from centuries ago were spared the threat of
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being made irrelevant in a very short space of
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time. Nambula, I'm sure, will explain more to
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us, but let's host this conversation openly in
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a comfortable way and let's draw on the experience,
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knowledge and expertise of these incredible leaders.
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Nambula. Thank you, Anton. If I may, I'll start
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with introducing our guests. Thank you so much
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for joining us. Vera and Nick, I will give a
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very brief introduction of your bios, because
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if I give a detailed one, we'll spend the better
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part of the podcast on that, which wouldn't be
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ideal. Nick is the chief executive of Kahiso
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Media Radio, one of South Africa's leading radio
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broadcasting houses. He is a former journalist
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by trade, actually went to the same alma mater
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when I was doing my research last night. Very
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passionate about businesses and organizations
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that are really focused on creating meaningful
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connections between their clients. He is an innovator
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and an entrepreneur. Great experience in radio
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and digital media. And if I were to just speak
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briefly about Vera, she is currently the chief
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executive of Vouch, a financial online insurer
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platform. Vera has over 20 years experience in
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finance, in marketing and digital. She is an
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average runner. I think she's completed, is it
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eight Comrade Marathons? When the rest of us
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are still aiming for our second half marathon.
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That is amazing. And most impressive, I guess,
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really powerful for me is a recent breast cancer
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survivor. So Vera and Nick, thank you so much
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for joining us today. With the brief intro from
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Anton on the lighthouse keeper's dilemma, I guess
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our conversation today is how do we then bring
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that back into organizations and specifically
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leaders in South Africa, in the world, where
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there is constant disruption, constant change,
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there's a constant need for transformation. How
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do you lead in such a way that you do not become
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the lighthouse where you are displaced by innovation,
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by change, by technology? Or how do you continue
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to give direction, but also be thinking about
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what else should I be focusing on? Absolutely.
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And let's just remind the audience, Nomvula,
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that this lighthouse that's been relevant for
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centuries, as I said, for providing safety to
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sailors on the oceans of the world. The question
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is, what actually was the disruption behind the
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lighthouse? And it was the advent of GPS and
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digital navigation systems. And suddenly all
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those highly experienced, long -serving lighthouse
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keepers, in a blink, became irrelevant and redundant.
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Nick, Vera, the first question is, when the map
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no longer matches reality, how do you know it's
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time to stop protecting the lighthouse and start
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planning for safe passage for your teams and
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your organization? I think... that when the map
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doesn't match reality, it's already potentially
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a little late. I think the key is trying to find
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some level of early warning and understand what
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is potentially shifting. I appreciate things
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like the Lighthouse analogy as a blink of an
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eye technology, but at the same time, you could
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see it coming. There's other famous examples,
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American Railroads, the Kodak example. So there's
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plenty of those things where the innovation happens
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suddenly, but the the technology that underpinned
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that evolved over time. So I think it's about
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keeping an eye on emerging trends, technologies,
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but most importantly, and I think really the
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theme for me today in terms of this conversation
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is, what is the most important is not following
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the technology, but following trends in human
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behavior. The more we understand the individual,
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the more we'll understand how they will react
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to the circumstances around them. And if we consistently
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create value for the individual, for the consumer
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or the audience or whatever your particular business
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might be, then they are the real... prize to
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keep your eye on. You know, I think we do, and
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particularly in this kind of digital social age,
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we get obsessed about new technologies and we
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get excited and as we should, and you know, this
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is going to change the world and that's going
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to change the world and so on. And, you know,
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my background is radio. And so if ever there's
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been an industry that has had many, many naysayers
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and have predicted the demise of the industry
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through various technological innovations, it's
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been my industry. I'm not saying we've survived
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unscathed. As a radio industry, obviously there's
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been some adaption. It's not entirely a success
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story, but mostly radio has endured because its
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focus has been on the listener, creating value
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for the listener. And that has evolved and has
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shifted over time. And I would venture that that's
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been more impactful in keeping radio alive than
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trying to respond to every technological fad
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that's come along the way. I think similarly,
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you know, the only constant in life is change.
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For us, and it doesn't really matter at this
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stage which industry you're in, I think across
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the board, it's just trying to keep up with new
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developments, trying to understand human behavior
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to the next point as well, and how that is going
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to mold for future. For me, I think from a financial
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services point of view, we constantly have to
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look at what is the industry telling us, what
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are our customers telling us, and having those
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conversations, listening deeply to what they
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need. and then adapting to that. And it goes
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in two ways. It goes from a point of view from
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servicing your customer, surely, and what is
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the most effective and easiest way and how do
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we adapt our technologies to accommodate those
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needs. But then there's also, I suppose, the
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very root cause, which is why does something
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like insurance exist? And it's really to accommodate
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and to help humans having human issues and human
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problems. So as much as technology, is a solve
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or maybe in some instances even a band -aid to
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solve those problems. It'll never be the root
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cause because that's a human issue. And I think,
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you know, we're in such an interesting time to
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be in business. I always say I think this is
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the most exciting time to be in business because
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both Nick and I coming from years of experience,
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you know, you've been through the eras of call
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centers and then there was around about the 2000s
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18, 17 it was all about digital disruption and
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you know understanding what Google can do for
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your business and it was like all the hype and
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now it's AI and GPT and everything coming to
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fold but even that For me, it's tools. You should
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almost see it as a team member. You've got HR
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marketing and technology sitting alongside that.
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And how do you incorporate that to have synergy
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in your larger business? That's absolutely fascinating.
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And I'm intrigued by the reference to humans
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in this world of technology and nanobots and
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humanoids and all the rest of it. I think the
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human thing is fascinating. But to challenge
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both of you with this question. if you as a leadership
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team or as a leader when you look around your
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boardroom table at the people taking the big
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decisions about the customer and more particularly
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nick and vera the customer of the future how
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does the profile of boards and key decision makers
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leaders if you like how able are they given probably
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their typical age their background etc How do
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they really connect with tomorrow's customer
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that probably looks very different to them, behaves
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differently? So how do you cope with that? That's
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a great question. And it's something that actually
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I'm glad you asked because we're very deliberate
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about it. We've just actually just recently rebranded
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from Cohesio Media Radio to Cohesio Connect and
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done a lot of thinking about what we as a...
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I guess, a kind of strategic management holding
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business with radio, insurance, digital publishing
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as a kind of scope of different industries. What
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value do we bring? And what we realize, you know,
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to the earlier point, we bring an understanding
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of audiences. And so we've invested heavily in
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making sure that we do that. And we dovetail
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that with transformation and transformation in
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the sense that Our leadership teams need to represent
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from an age, demographic, gender, all of these
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other classifications, the profile of the audience
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that we're targeting. Particularly in media where
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it's a free industry, people don't pay a subscription.
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If we're not resonating, if we don't connect
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with people in a relevant way. every single day,
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then we're just simply going to lose audience.
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And the examples of media businesses that have
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not done that abound. We're hoping not to make
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that mistake, but what we've done is we've invested
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in this brand called Sound Insights, and we've
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got someone who's passionate about making sure
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that research doesn't just affirm hypotheses
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that we may have about the world, but that creates
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a lot of uncomfortable truth about how young
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audiences are interacting with radio, that all
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of my glib CEO talk about radio's continued dominance
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and sustainability is challenged with. real hard
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data about how youngsters are interacting with
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this medium, that our presumptions about the
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insurance world are challenged with real hard
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data. So I think it's about transforming the
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teams, making sure that you have an internal
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culture where people are comfortable. to speak
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up with uncomfortable truths, because so often
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that doesn't happen around leadership teams and
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boardrooms, and invest in the research that underpins
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this. So it's more empirical, the conversations,
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and less about your own subjective perspectives.
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I think that's very right. Vera, your perspective.
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Look, I think the best leadership teams, whether
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it's a board level or Exco level, compromise
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or contain different kinds of personalities,
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different flavors and diversity. In my experience,
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the businesses that struggle the most are the
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ones that have only one type of culture in their
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leadership teams. Or you get a dominant leader
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and then everybody that reports into him or her
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all begin to kind of like be the same soldiers.
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And that's dangerous in a business. I think,
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you know, being in financial services vouchers
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offering customers a new way of engaging with
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financial advice. And it's one that necessarily
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the industry, the financial services industry
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is one of the oldest industries in the world.
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Interestingly enough, the same as the community.
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communication industry. But in that, the transformation
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and the evolution of that industry hasn't always
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been as fast, I think, as it could have been.
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And I think part of that sits in the boards and
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the expos of some of the leaders in the industry,
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not just in South Africa, but globally as well.
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Legacy systems, you know, the age -old thing
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of we've always done it in a certain way, so
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we're just going to continue doing it. And I
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think that's what Good Leaders Challenge is to
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say, What can we do different and how will this
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help our client base? And also as an industry,
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what can we contribute to the industry to rapidly
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transform or put some momentum in the movement
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of change? And again, for that to happen, you
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need diversity of thought, of thinking, of personality
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profiles, certainly on the voucher board as well.
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Lots of different people coming from different
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industries, sharing different experiences. And
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then I suppose ultimately in kind of like a C
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-suite level, you've got to... park your ego
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at the door and learn from not only your leadership
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team, but your broader team as well, especially
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the junior guys. I'm learning more from the junior
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advisors in the vouch business than I am from
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some of the senior leaders purely because they're
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on the ground, they're in touch. They know exactly
00:14:32.889 --> 00:14:35.850
what the cultural trends are, where to tap in
00:14:35.850 --> 00:14:39.210
and so forth. I think the bottom line for me
00:14:39.210 --> 00:14:42.789
is listen, be in touch and be open to changes
00:14:42.789 --> 00:14:45.509
and never be too rigid in the way that you are
00:14:45.509 --> 00:14:48.669
leading because it won't allow you the opportunity
00:14:48.669 --> 00:14:51.389
to grow the business, I think, in a favourable
00:14:51.389 --> 00:14:53.669
way. You've touched on what I actually wanted
00:14:53.669 --> 00:14:56.690
to ask Nick. I love how you guys have put structures
00:14:56.690 --> 00:14:58.490
in place that help you question your thinking
00:14:58.490 --> 00:15:01.129
and help you to constantly keep the customer
00:15:01.129 --> 00:15:03.990
focused in the value that you're trying to create.
00:15:04.309 --> 00:15:07.919
But as you noted that you've got, always held
00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:09.860
very strong views about radio and it's gonna
00:15:09.860 --> 00:15:12.759
last forever and when those views have been challenged
00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:14.879
to vera's point how have you dealt with that
00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:19.860
over time with difficulty you know um you know
00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:22.820
we we let go of our long -held beliefs like really
00:15:22.820 --> 00:15:25.720
that takes some time but you have to be open
00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:28.240
-minded to do that and i i think it really i
00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.159
mean it it speaks to the to the teams where where
00:15:31.159 --> 00:15:35.559
there is um conflict in opinions and there's
00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:37.399
a creative tension that that exists within a
00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:40.740
team, then you realize that at some point the
00:15:40.740 --> 00:15:45.240
empirical evidence and the passion and conviction
00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.779
of people around you who you trust has to have
00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:51.299
carry weight. And so you must be open -minded
00:15:51.299 --> 00:15:53.639
as a leader. I mean, I'm being glib about it,
00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:56.600
but you have to keep your mind open. For me,
00:15:56.620 --> 00:16:00.120
it's more than just saying these and kind of...
00:16:00.269 --> 00:16:02.990
motivational staff meetings. What we've done
00:16:02.990 --> 00:16:04.990
is also we've translated, we've got a leadership
00:16:04.990 --> 00:16:07.549
charter within leadership across our businesses.
00:16:08.289 --> 00:16:12.610
And it's three key concepts. And I won't go into
00:16:12.610 --> 00:16:14.289
all the details, but one is about empowerment,
00:16:14.389 --> 00:16:15.870
making sure that people are empowered to make
00:16:15.870 --> 00:16:17.850
the right decisions. The other is reward and
00:16:17.850 --> 00:16:19.610
recognition and catching people doing the right
00:16:19.610 --> 00:16:21.610
thing. But the important thing, the other thing
00:16:21.610 --> 00:16:24.090
that is, I guess, a little more unique to us
00:16:24.090 --> 00:16:26.389
as a business is that the third principle of
00:16:26.389 --> 00:16:28.789
our leadership charter is relevance to changing
00:16:28.789 --> 00:16:31.600
paradigms. precisely because we don't want to
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:35.360
be stuck in a situation where, and I keep referring
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:37.779
to radio, it's not just our business. So forgive
00:16:37.779 --> 00:16:41.120
me, it's my background. But, you know, it's very
00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:43.879
easy to look at radio broadcasters and say things
00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:45.940
have been done this way and successfully for
00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:48.179
X amount of time. And they may be very good,
00:16:48.220 --> 00:16:50.379
very skilled, very competent, very highly intelligent
00:16:50.379 --> 00:16:53.039
people. But if they're not relevant to the zeitgeist.
00:16:53.549 --> 00:16:55.289
then we're not going to be relevant and connect
00:16:55.289 --> 00:16:57.549
with audiences of today and tomorrow. And therefore,
00:16:57.750 --> 00:17:00.970
we hold our leaders accountable to that relevance.
00:17:01.129 --> 00:17:03.929
They must be open -minded. They must be looking
00:17:03.929 --> 00:17:06.690
at trends externally. They must be engaging with
00:17:06.690 --> 00:17:09.269
the market and the people that listen to us with
00:17:09.269 --> 00:17:12.230
open minds. Otherwise, they're not the right
00:17:12.230 --> 00:17:14.369
leaders to have in our business. I think it's
00:17:14.369 --> 00:17:17.730
fascinating that you've both... picked on a really
00:17:17.730 --> 00:17:21.069
important aspect of leadership and that is the
00:17:21.069 --> 00:17:24.349
ability to see beyond your name in a sense the
00:17:24.349 --> 00:17:26.150
name radio and the name insurance nick we've
00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:28.269
spoken about you and you just added alluded to
00:17:28.269 --> 00:17:31.829
that again in your last answer but uh and i love
00:17:31.829 --> 00:17:34.049
the concept of changing the name to connect as
00:17:34.049 --> 00:17:36.329
opposed to radio because that's really connects
00:17:36.329 --> 00:17:38.990
back to the human to the soul to the spirit you
00:17:38.990 --> 00:17:40.990
know to the to the engagement that gives you
00:17:40.990 --> 00:17:43.309
goosebumps and vera yours you know it's from
00:17:43.309 --> 00:17:45.769
insurance to solving for human problems again
00:17:45.769 --> 00:17:47.700
it's huge human problems, which I really like.
00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:51.220
And that's that connect there. And it's fascinating
00:17:51.220 --> 00:17:54.460
how so many companies are prisoner to their name,
00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:57.759
right? And they just don't see beyond that. And
00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:01.559
I think perhaps I'd like you to comment on the
00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:05.259
level of optionality that shifting from radio
00:18:05.259 --> 00:18:07.779
to connect, for example, and from insurance to
00:18:07.779 --> 00:18:11.180
human problems, it opens up a world of new optionality
00:18:11.180 --> 00:18:13.559
to you in terms of your strategic thinking, of
00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:16.569
course. The question then is, how do you then
00:18:16.569 --> 00:18:19.930
decide which of those new many options, many
00:18:19.930 --> 00:18:22.509
of them exciting, how do you then start choosing
00:18:22.509 --> 00:18:25.029
what you're going to focus on? The businesses
00:18:25.029 --> 00:18:26.990
may seem disparate, but there's actually quite
00:18:26.990 --> 00:18:28.849
a lot of commonality when you look at it through
00:18:28.849 --> 00:18:31.509
another lens. And for me, that lens is sensemaking.
00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:36.980
You know, the business model of making. sense
00:18:36.980 --> 00:18:40.420
of complexity is one that I mean that's how Google
00:18:40.420 --> 00:18:44.039
started right the the internet internet was disparate
00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:46.759
had content everywhere they were a way to make
00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:50.079
sense of all of this fragmentation if you think
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:53.079
about it that's what radio good radio, curated
00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:55.240
radio. You curate what's happening on a day -to
00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:57.359
-day, give people a sense of the day, information,
00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:00.660
social equity, music that's topical, music that
00:19:00.660 --> 00:19:02.799
makes them feel nostalgic, whatever. You're putting
00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:05.460
those things together in a way that gives them
00:19:05.460 --> 00:19:09.509
order, structure. helps them to adult and vouch.
00:19:09.670 --> 00:19:12.829
And Vera will elaborate on that a lot more eloquently
00:19:12.829 --> 00:19:15.549
than I can, but vouchers in the same space, it's
00:19:15.549 --> 00:19:19.210
curating from a wide variety of financial services
00:19:19.210 --> 00:19:21.950
options and help people to make the right decisions
00:19:21.950 --> 00:19:23.990
to add value. And that's actually what we have
00:19:23.990 --> 00:19:27.289
in common. So from a strategic perspective, those
00:19:27.289 --> 00:19:29.529
are the businesses we are interested in. What
00:19:29.529 --> 00:19:33.470
adds real value to human lives through making
00:19:33.470 --> 00:19:37.140
sense of complexity? Yeah, I think similarly
00:19:37.140 --> 00:19:40.839
with Vouch, you know, it's interesting because
00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:43.200
when we started the conversation around Vouch,
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.240
it was 2024 that Nick and I started talking around
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:49.599
the opportunity. You know, at first you go Kegiso
00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:52.480
Media Radio, broadcasting financial services,
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:55.559
it seems far apart. But the thing that I was
00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.579
really interested in is the understanding that
00:19:58.579 --> 00:20:01.940
Kegiso has around audiences and audience insights.
00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:05.180
and how that's relevant in the insurance space
00:20:05.180 --> 00:20:08.539
and how do we tap into those insights to offer
00:20:08.539 --> 00:20:10.740
more meaning to the customer and the client at
00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:13.299
the end of the day. And from a voucher point
00:20:13.299 --> 00:20:16.440
of view, I mean, we very early on saw the opportunity
00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:19.420
as being connecting the best of both worlds.
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:22.480
So you've got the human advisor, but you've got
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.220
technology helping to make that connection. So
00:20:25.220 --> 00:20:27.500
when the customer comes in, there's a connection
00:20:27.500 --> 00:20:29.539
point, which is technology. And then you've got
00:20:29.539 --> 00:20:32.619
your human advisor guiding this client on the
00:20:32.619 --> 00:20:36.059
other side of it. And for a business, I think
00:20:36.059 --> 00:20:40.250
really to do that well. quite new in the market,
00:20:40.289 --> 00:20:42.930
but we're seeing incredible traction because
00:20:42.930 --> 00:20:45.230
of this model of doing it differently. And I
00:20:45.230 --> 00:20:48.690
would almost say the willingness to understand
00:20:48.690 --> 00:20:51.490
the client on a different level and not going
00:20:51.490 --> 00:20:54.730
in terms of legacy systems and how things were
00:20:54.730 --> 00:20:56.529
always done, but saying, let's really listen
00:20:56.529 --> 00:20:59.849
to the needs out there. And through that, again,
00:21:00.029 --> 00:21:02.759
you know, the evolution. becomes quite clear
00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:05.920
in terms of, I think, the Kikiso vouch conversation,
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:11.529
that it's not as far apart as you'd think. To
00:21:11.529 --> 00:21:14.329
see the opportunity, I think from a Cajizo point
00:21:14.329 --> 00:21:17.509
of view, and to say let's go into financial services
00:21:17.509 --> 00:21:21.049
and to have that make sense, that is also a position
00:21:21.049 --> 00:21:24.670
that I think requires some courage and a brave
00:21:24.670 --> 00:21:27.869
decision by the leaders on that side of the business.
00:21:28.009 --> 00:21:31.089
So how do we build from there and how do we honour
00:21:31.089 --> 00:21:33.950
that decision in the long term? I must say what
00:21:33.950 --> 00:21:36.450
really resonates for me when we initially introduced
00:21:36.450 --> 00:21:39.509
these five mental models in a previous podcast
00:21:39.509 --> 00:21:41.190
and the conversation that was being had there,
00:21:41.269 --> 00:21:44.609
when this lighthousekeeper's dilemma was introduced,
00:21:44.650 --> 00:21:50.049
the key takeaway was that What you do may change,
00:21:50.210 --> 00:21:53.009
but your purpose remains the same. And identifying
00:21:53.009 --> 00:21:55.170
that, and that really resonates for me in terms
00:21:55.170 --> 00:21:57.390
of what you're saying, that you clearly identified
00:21:57.390 --> 00:21:59.930
your purpose and your reason for being. These
00:21:59.930 --> 00:22:02.309
are human issues that will still be there. We're
00:22:02.309 --> 00:22:04.609
still trying to connect people. The how that
00:22:04.609 --> 00:22:06.910
we do it is what we then need to adjust to. And
00:22:06.910 --> 00:22:10.390
actually being very active in making sure that
00:22:10.390 --> 00:22:12.769
we are keeping track of what are those adjustments
00:22:12.769 --> 00:22:15.470
that need to be made. So I think just being a
00:22:15.470 --> 00:22:18.420
purpose -driven business. and leader really,
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:21.640
really resonates. And we're also there, you know,
00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:23.500
we're talking a lot about it from a business
00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:25.299
point of view, but let's talk about it from,
00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:27.339
again, from a leader, from a personal point of
00:22:27.339 --> 00:22:31.109
view. for us as leaders to go through those transformations
00:22:31.109 --> 00:22:34.170
in our respective careers as well, you also have
00:22:34.170 --> 00:22:36.890
to change and adapt, right? So what I wanted
00:22:36.890 --> 00:22:39.769
to be 10 years ago versus what I want to be now
00:22:39.769 --> 00:22:42.569
changes because the environment around me has
00:22:42.569 --> 00:22:44.650
changed and I needed to adapt to that. And that
00:22:44.650 --> 00:22:48.049
also showed me, like I often, you know, when
00:22:48.049 --> 00:22:49.730
people come with this, what is your five -year
00:22:49.730 --> 00:22:52.769
plan? currently like i would frown if you've
00:22:52.769 --> 00:22:54.750
got one and i'll tell you why because everything
00:22:54.750 --> 00:22:57.210
changes so quickly that you've got to adapt yeah
00:22:57.210 --> 00:22:58.849
and then you've got to go well i thought i was
00:22:58.849 --> 00:23:00.950
going this direction and maybe i am but maybe
00:23:00.950 --> 00:23:02.589
it's a little bit more to the left than i thought
00:23:02.589 --> 00:23:05.109
and through that you're starting to kind of like
00:23:05.109 --> 00:23:08.369
find your way in that you know and i think as
00:23:08.369 --> 00:23:11.589
leaders um our ability to survive and to thrive
00:23:11.589 --> 00:23:15.410
really lies in that comfort, uncomfort friction
00:23:15.410 --> 00:23:20.589
of change and the ability to take it and to make
00:23:20.589 --> 00:23:22.650
the most of it and to understand it thoroughly.
00:23:23.420 --> 00:23:25.680
How do you harness that, though, as a leader?
00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:27.480
I'm thinking if there are people who will be
00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:29.539
watching and listening to this podcast who are
00:23:29.539 --> 00:23:31.960
growing in their own careers, what are the things
00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:34.519
that you did to make peace with the discomfort,
00:23:34.700 --> 00:23:36.359
to make it part of your life, and to actually
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:38.079
say, if I'm not uncomfortable, then there's a
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:40.579
problem. What were things you had to let go of
00:23:40.579 --> 00:23:42.660
10 years ago when you were seeing how things
00:23:42.660 --> 00:23:44.440
are changing that, okay, if I'm going to make
00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:47.539
it, I need to make different decisions? Sure.
00:23:47.660 --> 00:23:50.160
It's a good question. I think preconceived ideas.
00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:55.059
I think the ability to stay flexible and also,
00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:57.599
and this is a bit more, you know, maybe on the
00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:59.900
human side, but the ability to go with the flow
00:23:59.900 --> 00:24:03.140
and not always to try and over control and over
00:24:03.140 --> 00:24:06.539
engineer every decision, but to trust that the
00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:09.059
decisions that I'm making today is going to set
00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:12.200
me on a path and those decisions will be revealed
00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:15.099
one by one. And depending on what I decide with
00:24:15.099 --> 00:24:17.579
each of these junctures. They might send me in
00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:21.400
a different direction. But if I base my decisions
00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:24.460
in that moment on my experience. on the people
00:24:24.460 --> 00:24:26.700
around me, on what the industry is showing me,
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:29.339
what the trends are. And I kind of like make
00:24:29.339 --> 00:24:32.420
a big mixing pot of all of these inputs and then
00:24:32.420 --> 00:24:35.980
create the solve, I suppose, or the roadmap for
00:24:35.980 --> 00:24:38.240
myself moving forward. That's kind of like where
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.299
the grit is. And again, for me personally, I
00:24:41.299 --> 00:24:43.500
think Nick and I've discussed it as well, is
00:24:43.500 --> 00:24:46.700
lean on the people around you. The best advice
00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:49.400
that I've gotten in my career were from tremendous
00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:52.460
mentors and not always the mentors that step
00:24:52.460 --> 00:24:55.059
up and the ladder. Sometimes it's mentors that's
00:24:55.059 --> 00:24:57.160
just around you, you know, on the same level
00:24:57.160 --> 00:24:59.440
or even lower. People that come to you with a
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:01.380
particular insight at the right time that you
00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:04.049
go, aha, okay, I've got that. Firstly, surrounding
00:25:04.049 --> 00:25:06.029
yourself with people who really know what they're
00:25:06.029 --> 00:25:08.269
doing. I mean, you know, to the earlier point,
00:25:08.410 --> 00:25:11.329
making sure, you know, we can undergo this change
00:25:11.329 --> 00:25:13.349
as Cochisa Connect and say we want to get into
00:25:13.349 --> 00:25:15.490
financial services. But, you know, we needed
00:25:15.490 --> 00:25:19.029
the skills of Vero, who's got deep, deep experience
00:25:19.029 --> 00:25:21.829
specifically in that vertical. So you need to
00:25:21.829 --> 00:25:23.650
bring in those right things. But I think, you
00:25:23.650 --> 00:25:25.930
know, to your question now, in terms of the evolution,
00:25:26.150 --> 00:25:29.970
I think probably one of the hardest introspective.
00:25:30.630 --> 00:25:32.690
processes one can go through is is trying to
00:25:32.690 --> 00:25:34.789
understand like what what is your contribution
00:25:34.789 --> 00:25:39.170
what are you good at and i mean for me it was
00:25:39.170 --> 00:25:42.140
you know i started career in broadcasting as
00:25:42.140 --> 00:25:43.759
a journalist you know i had those moments they
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:46.240
were my moments i would file a story from the
00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:48.859
field i would be like you know i get the goosebumps
00:25:48.859 --> 00:25:53.160
of that thing it was me doing this thing um and
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:55.640
and then you you know transition into management
00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:57.559
and realize like and but you know you're still
00:25:57.559 --> 00:25:59.940
kind of doing and but you're also managing and
00:25:59.940 --> 00:26:02.440
i i think it's coming it's coming to understand
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:05.160
like what we and and all of these are you know
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:09.370
good answers but what is it that you are really
00:26:09.370 --> 00:26:13.009
contributing most effectively? Is it the actual
00:26:13.009 --> 00:26:16.670
work that you're doing? Is it providing support
00:26:16.670 --> 00:26:19.230
and encouragement and leadership for other people
00:26:19.230 --> 00:26:21.789
to do their best work and trying to understand
00:26:21.789 --> 00:26:24.750
that so that you don't get kind of caught in
00:26:24.750 --> 00:26:29.279
this? in this weeds of trying to either micromanage
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:33.039
on the one hand or you're not too distant and
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:35.420
removed. And that shapes your ambition. Do you
00:26:35.420 --> 00:26:38.259
want to be leading a team? So often we see, for
00:26:38.259 --> 00:26:40.240
example, let's take sales as an example. You
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:42.619
get a great salesperson and they're brilliant
00:26:42.619 --> 00:26:45.880
at delivering the numbers. And then what's the
00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:47.960
next obvious thing? Well, you promote them to
00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:50.660
the head of a sales organization. Perhaps they
00:26:50.660 --> 00:26:53.500
don't work out because it's not. their skills.
00:26:53.619 --> 00:26:56.779
Perhaps they were better in managing their own
00:26:56.779 --> 00:26:59.380
portfolio. So I think individually, everybody
00:26:59.380 --> 00:27:02.400
needs to work that out. Sometimes career paths
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:04.740
open up for you because they seem to be the next
00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:06.740
most obvious thing for you to do. It's what people
00:27:06.740 --> 00:27:09.680
expect you to do. Perhaps it's not the right
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:14.039
move for you. Or perhaps if you do take it, you
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:16.410
need to... You need to change your perspective
00:27:16.410 --> 00:27:18.710
in terms of what skills you need. You need to
00:27:18.710 --> 00:27:20.829
be able to unlearn some of the behaviors and
00:27:20.829 --> 00:27:23.509
try and relearn some new ones. So I think trying
00:27:23.509 --> 00:27:25.470
to understand that in terms of your own career
00:27:25.470 --> 00:27:29.730
path is critical because the ladder doesn't unveil
00:27:29.730 --> 00:27:32.509
itself according to your competencies. It unveils
00:27:32.509 --> 00:27:34.609
itself due to circumstance and you need to find
00:27:34.609 --> 00:27:36.309
a way to adapt to it. So I'm going to ask you.
00:27:36.750 --> 00:27:39.029
Personal question, because you've both been extremely
00:27:39.029 --> 00:27:42.650
eloquent on this perspective of friction of change
00:27:42.650 --> 00:27:46.309
from a leadership executive point of view. So,
00:27:46.309 --> 00:27:49.210
Vera, what do you do every day or once a week,
00:27:49.250 --> 00:27:51.599
once a month, whatever it might be? to enjoy
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:54.059
the friction of change? I mean, do you sort of
00:27:54.059 --> 00:27:56.640
shower and wash in a different routine? Do you
00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:59.940
drive home a different route? Tell me what you
00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:04.140
do. Sure. Thanks for putting me on the spot there.
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:07.940
That's fantastic. You know, for me, it's always
00:28:07.940 --> 00:28:12.220
been about movement and exercise. Like Nambula
00:28:12.220 --> 00:28:15.480
mentioned as well, I've run eight comrades. I
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:19.119
love physical challenges. And it's about being
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:21.869
outside of your comfort zone. it's about pushing
00:28:21.869 --> 00:28:25.170
your mind and your body to a place that you're
00:28:25.170 --> 00:28:26.910
not comfortable you're not even sure you can
00:28:26.910 --> 00:28:29.450
do this thing to be honest but you found yourself
00:28:29.450 --> 00:28:31.289
in this position because you paid the money and
00:28:31.289 --> 00:28:33.630
you signed up for it and now you're there and
00:28:33.630 --> 00:28:37.789
you want the medal at least for the picture and
00:28:37.789 --> 00:28:40.869
to get your family to kind of like give you the
00:28:40.869 --> 00:28:43.690
thumbs up at the end of the day But for me throughout
00:28:43.690 --> 00:28:47.470
my career, it's always been a huge anchor is
00:28:47.470 --> 00:28:50.369
exercise running specifically. And my morning
00:28:50.369 --> 00:28:54.589
routine has stayed consistent throughout. Every
00:28:54.589 --> 00:28:57.750
morning I wake up, I go for a run or a walk or
00:28:57.750 --> 00:29:00.769
whatever form of exercise. I do a lot of yoga
00:29:00.769 --> 00:29:03.490
and meditation as well. And it's with the view
00:29:03.490 --> 00:29:05.769
of kind of like checking in with yourself in
00:29:05.769 --> 00:29:08.980
that moment. And also kind of like planning your
00:29:08.980 --> 00:29:11.339
day, but then also getting a little bit uncomfortable
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:14.440
and getting a little bit tired. And that often
00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:18.839
for me opens my mind creatively. If I'm in motion,
00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:21.460
I find that I connect with thoughts and kind
00:29:21.460 --> 00:29:25.700
of like ideas better than if I sit still. So
00:29:25.700 --> 00:29:28.480
I think for everybody, it's different. But surely
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:31.880
on my side of the spectrum, it is a bit of a
00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:36.480
punishment that goes with it, but it helps. The
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:39.039
leaders that I appreciate the most are leaders
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:41.640
that have passions that sit outside of their
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:44.859
workspace. So whether it's writing, reading,
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:46.940
whatever, but something that they really truly
00:29:46.940 --> 00:29:50.740
invest in. Because that passion drives a flame,
00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:54.480
I think, that really ignites a curiosity as well
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:56.720
in the broader spectrum. And Nick's smiling,
00:29:56.799 --> 00:29:58.779
but he's not going to get let off either. No,
00:29:58.779 --> 00:30:02.700
I'm smiling because I think I'm allergic to routine.
00:30:03.619 --> 00:30:06.579
And there's never a dull moment, certainly in
00:30:06.579 --> 00:30:09.440
media. You can be driving into work with best
00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:11.880
laid plans and hear someone in the morning show
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:13.740
and realize your day is going to go very, very
00:30:13.740 --> 00:30:16.180
differently to how you'd planned it. And I think
00:30:16.180 --> 00:30:19.440
I thrive on that. Most of my career I've been
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:22.519
involved in things that are kind of setting up
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:25.960
new things or kind of new portfolios. in an established
00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:29.359
business, having a new challenge. I really like
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:32.480
that. If Vera wasn't here, I'd call myself a
00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:35.900
runner. But given that she is here, I'll call
00:30:35.900 --> 00:30:41.420
myself a jogger. So I guess that is, and I do
00:30:41.420 --> 00:30:46.349
agree, I think some level of personal... consistency,
00:30:46.349 --> 00:30:48.990
you know, outside that in order to kind of create
00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:51.569
that balance is important in order just to, I
00:30:51.569 --> 00:30:54.809
think, certainly I get instructed to go running
00:30:54.809 --> 00:30:57.930
if I'm in a bad mood, you know, because that,
00:30:58.089 --> 00:31:00.190
you know, it is something that you need in order
00:31:00.190 --> 00:31:03.509
to create that balance. Anton, I want to extend
00:31:03.509 --> 00:31:07.509
on the getting personal theme. Vera, if I can
00:31:07.509 --> 00:31:11.710
just ask a question around your cancer diagnosis
00:31:11.710 --> 00:31:15.079
and maybe Before you were diagnosed, what were
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:18.079
some of the things that you, what were your lighthouses
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:20.400
in terms of your identity and how you viewed
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:22.559
yourself as a leader that you really held on
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:26.319
to that were really challenged by this diagnosis?
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:30.180
And I guess maybe post your recovery that you
00:31:30.180 --> 00:31:32.019
had to let go of and think, I need to do things
00:31:32.019 --> 00:31:37.859
differently. Yeah, look, cancer is such a harrowing
00:31:37.859 --> 00:31:40.000
journey, but it's also a very interesting one.
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:41.680
And I'm going to say something that might be
00:31:42.360 --> 00:31:44.960
controversial but I believe a rewarding one as
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:47.799
well if you'd asked me this question a year ago
00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:49.759
I wouldn't have believed that I just said that
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:52.819
but the thing is with and it's not just cancer
00:31:52.819 --> 00:31:56.140
it's anything that challenges you to the depth
00:31:56.140 --> 00:32:00.480
of your soul the thing that happens is you've
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:03.329
got to reshift everything that you thought you
00:32:03.329 --> 00:32:06.789
knew. And you've got to let go of a lot of things
00:32:06.789 --> 00:32:10.549
that you really held dear. And those are physical
00:32:10.549 --> 00:32:13.769
things, but it's also things within your personality
00:32:13.769 --> 00:32:17.190
and things that you kind of like curated over
00:32:17.190 --> 00:32:21.150
the years. So for me, what happened is I was
00:32:21.150 --> 00:32:25.890
diagnosed end of January 2025, literally, as
00:32:25.890 --> 00:32:28.750
I was stepping into the role of CEO of Vouch.
00:32:29.509 --> 00:32:33.470
And What I immediately knew was two things. In
00:32:33.470 --> 00:32:36.630
the first instance, my diagnosis was stage one.
00:32:36.730 --> 00:32:39.190
So I knew I could be cured, but it would still
00:32:39.190 --> 00:32:42.609
be eight rounds of chemo, 15 rounds of radiation,
00:32:42.849 --> 00:32:46.250
a double mastectomy, a reconstruction. Yeah,
00:32:46.289 --> 00:32:48.589
so it's been a long, long road. And that's the
00:32:48.589 --> 00:32:50.789
thing about cancer is when you initially get
00:32:50.789 --> 00:32:53.349
your diagnosis, you think it's like something
00:32:53.349 --> 00:32:55.609
you can quickly solve, you know, and in my nature,
00:32:55.690 --> 00:32:58.450
it's like, I want to solve this and I want to
00:32:58.450 --> 00:33:01.039
go for operation and Two months later, I want
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:03.380
to be done with this, you know. But that's not
00:33:03.380 --> 00:33:06.279
the way it works in this world. And it's interesting
00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:08.420
because the leadership principles that we just
00:33:08.420 --> 00:33:11.319
discussed was pretty much what I applied in that
00:33:11.319 --> 00:33:14.099
initial diagnosis as well, is surround yourself
00:33:14.099 --> 00:33:17.500
with good people. My wife, Janine, was pivotal
00:33:17.500 --> 00:33:21.259
in finding the right medical team. And then once
00:33:21.259 --> 00:33:23.339
you've got the right medical team, trust on them,
00:33:23.420 --> 00:33:25.579
but also know that they can give you the science
00:33:25.579 --> 00:33:27.180
and they can give you the medicine, but they're
00:33:27.180 --> 00:33:28.859
not going to give you the ability to survive
00:33:28.859 --> 00:33:31.160
this thing in your mind. So then you have to
00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:33.380
go and say, okay, what do I need in my personal
00:33:33.380 --> 00:33:36.220
capacity to get through this? And this is mindfulness,
00:33:36.539 --> 00:33:39.900
yoga, being still really focusing, visualization
00:33:39.900 --> 00:33:42.980
exercises, things like that. And then at the
00:33:42.980 --> 00:33:44.900
end of the day, you know, it's a long journey.
00:33:44.940 --> 00:33:47.900
So drawing on this ultramarathon kind of like
00:33:47.900 --> 00:33:50.619
mindset and saying there's eight rounds of chemo.
00:33:50.839 --> 00:33:53.279
Comrades is roughly 80 kilometers, a little bit
00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:56.200
more. So every round is 10 kilometers. So every
00:33:56.200 --> 00:34:00.299
time we... got back home, we tick like 10Ks off
00:34:00.299 --> 00:34:05.200
of this imaginary 10K race. And through that,
00:34:05.259 --> 00:34:07.039
you kind of like go step by step. And similarly
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:09.119
in building a business, and I think as leaders,
00:34:09.260 --> 00:34:11.420
is sometimes you just have to go step by step.
00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:13.800
Sometimes you can't worry about the future too
00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:15.719
much. Yes, you need your projections and your
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:18.260
spreadsheets and so forth. But you've also got
00:34:18.260 --> 00:34:20.039
to trust the journey and you've got to know that
00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:22.929
every day I'm going to do my best. to build back
00:34:22.929 --> 00:34:25.349
to my health, to build this business. But I can
00:34:25.349 --> 00:34:27.510
only do what I can in the kilometer that I'm
00:34:27.510 --> 00:34:30.550
in. And I think that mindset for me was run the
00:34:30.550 --> 00:34:32.690
kilometer you are in because you can control
00:34:32.690 --> 00:34:36.599
that kilometer. face the round of chemo that
00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:38.179
you're in because you can control that, but you
00:34:38.179 --> 00:34:39.739
don't know what you're going to get four rounds
00:34:39.739 --> 00:34:41.380
from now and you don't know what you're going
00:34:41.380 --> 00:34:43.280
to get six months from now in terms of a business.
00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:47.179
And thank goodness, you know, the Giso board,
00:34:47.460 --> 00:34:51.219
Nick, the vouch board, they've just been incredible
00:34:51.219 --> 00:34:54.320
over the last year in supporting me, but also
00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:58.039
really giving me the ability to do this journey
00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:00.539
in a way that made sense for me, my family and
00:35:00.539 --> 00:35:02.900
the business. And I honestly believe that's part
00:35:02.900 --> 00:35:06.380
of a success. of vouch and where it is that we
00:35:06.380 --> 00:35:09.599
put the right teams in place. We had honest conversations.
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:12.440
It's interesting to be kind of like a couple
00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:14.519
of weeks into a role and immediately having to
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:19.079
talk to your chairman about your chest. It wasn't
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:21.940
the conversation that I was envisioning to have.
00:35:22.099 --> 00:35:25.119
But at the same time, empathy goes a long way.
00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:29.989
And I think to answer your question, I'm healthy
00:35:29.989 --> 00:35:32.570
now today as I sit here. And when I look back
00:35:32.570 --> 00:35:35.409
at it, I think it's made me calm down a lot.
00:35:35.989 --> 00:35:43.019
It's made me more empathetic. Kind of like given
00:35:43.019 --> 00:35:45.159
me the ability to let go a little bit and to
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:47.980
say I can't control everything. I've put a great
00:35:47.980 --> 00:35:49.980
team of people around me in the business and
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:52.300
I'm leaning into them to bring their experience
00:35:52.300 --> 00:35:54.840
and expertise. And I'm trusting them to do that
00:35:54.840 --> 00:35:58.440
because I can't be in all the details all the
00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:01.679
time. Nobody can really be there. So I think
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:04.500
overall, the ability to just take a breath and
00:36:04.500 --> 00:36:07.360
to be more conscious of the decisions that you
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:09.860
make every day in order to make healthier decisions.
00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:13.960
Thank you. That was very deep, Vera. Yeah, I
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.500
just want to say that's a mic drop moment. I
00:36:16.500 --> 00:36:19.860
just killed the vibe in here completely. I've
00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:22.940
been making notes here, but my notes seem so
00:36:22.940 --> 00:36:25.639
puny by comparison to that moment I've just felt.
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:28.059
Maybe I can just underline it by saying I think
00:36:28.059 --> 00:36:30.760
also, you know, the most compelling leaders are
00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:33.500
those that lead with purpose. And certainly,
00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:40.329
you know, Vera's experience. not wanting to trivialize
00:36:40.329 --> 00:36:43.849
it at all, but it's given a whole new perspective
00:36:43.849 --> 00:36:46.989
to the business on the importance of healthcare,
00:36:47.349 --> 00:36:50.489
proper support, financial services, the right
00:36:50.489 --> 00:36:53.489
advice, all of those things. And I think as Vera
00:36:53.489 --> 00:36:56.170
has been able to embed her own leadership in
00:36:56.170 --> 00:36:59.409
the brand, I'm sure that her personal experience
00:36:59.409 --> 00:37:02.530
has also created a lot of inspiration and also
00:37:02.530 --> 00:37:04.750
understanding of the fact that we're not out
00:37:04.750 --> 00:37:10.480
there to just flog We're there to create security,
00:37:10.820 --> 00:37:15.260
safety, a sense of support at times when people
00:37:15.260 --> 00:37:18.619
need it. So I'm sure that purpose is interwoven
00:37:18.619 --> 00:37:21.949
into our leadership a lot. Nick, Vera, Nomvula,
00:37:22.110 --> 00:37:24.409
it's been an incredible privilege to have you
00:37:24.409 --> 00:37:27.210
in the studio for this discussion with our listeners
00:37:27.210 --> 00:37:30.150
and viewers all around the world on some of the
00:37:30.150 --> 00:37:32.369
leadership insights that you've experienced that
00:37:32.369 --> 00:37:36.090
we need. Our Fast Forward, powered by Future
00:37:36.090 --> 00:37:38.630
World Programme, folks, is brought to you to
00:37:38.630 --> 00:37:40.769
put you really in the front seat of navigating
00:37:40.769 --> 00:37:43.949
this exciting but sometimes scary future that
00:37:43.949 --> 00:37:46.789
arrives at variable speeds. We explore people,
00:37:46.989 --> 00:37:49.429
ideas, lessons, and insights, and today has been
00:37:49.610 --> 00:37:52.539
an incredibly powerful session for us. Just in
00:37:52.539 --> 00:37:54.739
summary, if I may take just a few moments, I
00:37:54.739 --> 00:37:56.539
think one of the first insights that I made a
00:37:56.539 --> 00:37:59.980
note of was the reality that leaders need to
00:37:59.980 --> 00:38:02.480
face sometimes, and I think Nick used the words,
00:38:02.539 --> 00:38:05.880
some deeply uncomfortable truths. I think flowing
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:08.539
from that was to understand your purpose as a
00:38:08.539 --> 00:38:10.860
business and as a leader in your own personal
00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:13.920
right and understand the essence of the business.
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:16.139
It's not what you do, but it's why you do it.
00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:18.239
What is that connect equivalent, if you like,
00:38:18.300 --> 00:38:20.940
in your industry? So if you think about all these
00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:23.860
incoming signals that are heralding phenomenal
00:38:23.860 --> 00:38:28.780
change, it's important for us to be able to listen
00:38:28.780 --> 00:38:31.880
to a diverse set of voices, inputs, sometimes
00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:34.559
from the most junior levels of our organizations.
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:38.000
And of course, that very destructive three -letter
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.840
word, which is sadly in too much evidence around
00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:44.599
the world in many forms today, ego. How do we
00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:47.219
kill ego? And I'm reminded that, you know, modern
00:38:47.219 --> 00:38:50.480
Buddhist philosophy defines a relationship as
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:53.900
three words, you and me. And of the three words,
00:38:54.019 --> 00:38:57.559
two of them are all about ego. And how do we
00:38:57.559 --> 00:38:59.559
really focus on the one word in the middle and
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:02.300
build value and connect, if you like, that very
00:39:02.300 --> 00:39:05.869
powerful word called and. I couldn't help but
00:39:05.869 --> 00:39:08.690
not noting the word simplicity, Vera. I think
00:39:08.690 --> 00:39:11.110
you spoke a lot about the complexity and you
00:39:11.110 --> 00:39:13.309
just closed out on that in the complexity of
00:39:13.309 --> 00:39:16.230
documents and insurance policies all around us.
00:39:16.489 --> 00:39:18.829
But critically important, folks, for leaders
00:39:18.829 --> 00:39:21.929
to understand in the future, your customers will
00:39:21.929 --> 00:39:25.010
love you and in fact pay you a premium for providing
00:39:25.010 --> 00:39:28.530
something that is scarce. And in a world of increasing
00:39:28.530 --> 00:39:31.940
complexity, Simplicity is increasingly scarce.
00:39:32.199 --> 00:39:35.300
So, you know, the complexity we deal with, customers
00:39:35.300 --> 00:39:37.920
love simplicity. So the fact that one -click
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:40.360
shopping is so popular is really no surprise.
00:39:40.980 --> 00:39:43.460
I think embracing the friction of change was
00:39:43.460 --> 00:39:46.219
a big message from both of our panelists today.
00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:51.320
And then breathe. Vera and Nick both mentioned
00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:54.219
this, folks. Be in the moment. I learned a very
00:39:54.219 --> 00:39:56.579
valuable lesson as a scuba diver. At 30 meters,
00:39:56.619 --> 00:39:59.380
if you stop breathing, you die. I think as a
00:39:59.380 --> 00:40:01.840
leader in this world of profound shift in every
00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:04.679
dimension, we need to consciously make time to
00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:07.079
breathe. And then I'm going to close out, folks.
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:09.559
If you were a lighthouse keeper for the last
00:40:09.559 --> 00:40:12.920
100 years in your business, one prerequisite
00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:16.119
for survival and continued relevance is courage
00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:18.880
to accept that this thing that you've done for
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:22.059
so long, been so passionate about, has changed.
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:26.139
The essence is safe passage. What you do might
00:40:26.139 --> 00:40:28.800
no longer be relevant. Have the courage at a
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:30.860
personal level when you face the kind of mountains
00:40:30.860 --> 00:40:34.619
like Everest that Vera has faced. Conquer those
00:40:34.619 --> 00:40:38.059
with passion, but with courage to embrace the
00:40:38.059 --> 00:40:41.039
excitement of the unknown. I'm reminded of one
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:42.860
of the founders of Future World said many years
00:40:42.860 --> 00:40:46.599
ago, he said, that moment of massive doubt is
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:49.099
the only moment of perfect freedom of choice.
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:53.619
So embrace the doubt, be courageous and make
00:40:53.619 --> 00:40:56.380
exciting decisions. Folks, it's been really wonderful
00:40:56.380 --> 00:40:59.159
having you with us in the studio. Thank you personally
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:01.400
from me, from a very hot and steamy Eisner to
00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:04.219
you in the studio for your time, for your insights,
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:08.039
but mostly for your courage and for the excitement
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:11.079
you've given me to pursue the next chapter and
00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:13.840
the next disruption. Nambula, thank you so much
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:16.880
for your very calm, reassuring voice in the studio.
00:41:17.139 --> 00:41:18.900
It's been great working with you, my partner.
00:41:19.219 --> 00:41:21.840
Thank you, Anton. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:22.059
it.