127. Can a ‘Code of Honor’ Help Christian Unity in Creative Groups?

1
00:00:00,490 --> 00:00:05,260
This week fans will be fixing to fight.
This includes many Christian fans.
2
00:00:05,260 --> 00:00:09,100
Unfortunately we won't say what they'll
be fighting about except to say the
3
00:00:09,100 --> 00:00:11,500
topic this week is prime for debate.
4
00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,500
That's like many topics that Christians
dispute, not just relating to politics,
5
00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:19,540
but relating to the fantastical
stories we enjoy together. Meanwhile,
6
00:00:19,540 --> 00:00:21,020
in the lower Haven Guild,
7
00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,300
we are enjoying so far Lord willing
a respite from those clashes.
8
00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,420
And we want to keep following our code
of honor that applies to all members.
9
00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,180
How can Christian fans follow such honor
codes wherever they go and wherever
10
00:00:34,180 --> 00:00:35,013
they debate.
11
00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,490
Welcome back to fantastical truth.
12
00:00:41,590 --> 00:00:45,730
The hopefully peaceful podcast from Laura
Haven in which we explore fantastical
13
00:00:45,730 --> 00:00:48,850
stories for God's glory and apply
their meanings to the real world.
14
00:00:48,860 --> 00:00:52,570
Jesus calls us to serve I'm me, Steve,
me Burnett. I published Laura Haven.
15
00:00:52,850 --> 00:00:53,210
I also,
16
00:00:53,210 --> 00:00:56,610
co-authored a non-fiction book about
fiction called the pop culture parents.
17
00:00:57,190 --> 00:01:01,450
And I'm Zachary Russell. And as a
native Texan, we call it wrestling.
18
00:01:01,750 --> 00:01:03,770
And this is episode 1 27.
19
00:01:03,950 --> 00:01:07,170
Can a code of honor help Christian
unity in creative groups.
20
00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:08,470
Zach, uh,
21
00:01:08,470 --> 00:01:12,050
we seem to have accidentally made a
series for the summer here on the podcast,
22
00:01:12,350 --> 00:01:15,330
uh, which I sort of retroactively
called a hot topics.
23
00:01:15,670 --> 00:01:18,170
Not every episode over the
summer was about a hot topic,
24
00:01:18,230 --> 00:01:19,410
but plenty of them were.
25
00:01:19,590 --> 00:01:23,690
So now we're exiting the summer heat and
I thought it would be just a great time
26
00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:27,650
to make a hot topic episode about
the very topic of hot topics.
27
00:01:27,650 --> 00:01:29,410
If you can say that 13 times fast,
28
00:01:29,410 --> 00:01:32,090
having nothing to do with a
particular geekish retailer,
29
00:01:32,620 --> 00:01:36,170
we're heading into a couple of other
sagas in September and October.
30
00:01:36,630 --> 00:01:39,890
So I guess you could call this the sort
of incidental grand finale to all those
31
00:01:39,890 --> 00:01:40,723
hot topics.
32
00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,530
Yeah, well, this is good
timing. I mean, here in Texas,
33
00:01:43,540 --> 00:01:47,170
we've had such a big drought for
months, and then all of a sudden we,
34
00:01:47,230 --> 00:01:51,010
the heavens opened this past week. We
had rain and thunder and lightning,
35
00:01:51,010 --> 00:01:53,650
in fact, Naomi and I were
out last night. And, uh,
36
00:01:53,650 --> 00:01:57,090
we were about to walk to the car and
this gigantic thunderstorm with tons of
37
00:01:57,090 --> 00:01:59,450
lightning just hit. That was fun. Well,
38
00:01:59,510 --> 00:02:03,010
it was fun for her cuz she always likes
those movies where they run in the rain
39
00:02:03,010 --> 00:02:05,410
and kiss. And I was like, I
don't wanna get electrocuted.
40
00:02:06,070 --> 00:02:09,450
And I think that's a good analogy for
what may be about the hit there's there's
41
00:02:09,450 --> 00:02:13,250
these thunderstorms on the horizon that
are kind of inching their way forward.
42
00:02:13,390 --> 00:02:15,130
And uh, yes, there's,
43
00:02:15,130 --> 00:02:19,570
they're full of danger for Christians
who are in several fandoms right now.
44
00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:23,010
Well the right kind of
thunderstorm can be refreshing.
45
00:02:23,030 --> 00:02:27,130
It can relieve the drought. It can
give people a chance to grow, uh,
46
00:02:27,150 --> 00:02:28,930
not just get hit by lightning. So, uh,
47
00:02:28,930 --> 00:02:33,290
hopefully we're gonna have more refreshing
rain than electrifying heat in this
48
00:02:33,290 --> 00:02:34,130
episode. Uh,
49
00:02:34,130 --> 00:02:36,850
which of course is why we're gonna get
to our concession stand in a moment,
50
00:02:36,850 --> 00:02:41,210
switching metaphors from weather to
food. But first, uh, speaking of, uh,
51
00:02:41,210 --> 00:02:44,890
weather, or we're gonna get to our first
sponsor for this episode once again,
52
00:02:44,890 --> 00:02:48,730
which is enclave publishing and
the novel blood secrets, uh,
53
00:02:48,730 --> 00:02:51,970
currently the newest title
from enclave by Morgan Bussy.
54
00:02:51,970 --> 00:02:56,130
Here's the cover description. Not
everyone wants to see the world saved.
55
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,010
Time is running out. Cities
are being engulfed in,
56
00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,640
in the mist and humanity is
on the brink of extinction.
57
00:03:02,270 --> 00:03:05,200
Theo believes he has found a way
to stop mankind from turning,
58
00:03:05,620 --> 00:03:08,800
but he doesn't know how to alter
cast's unique blood into a cure,
59
00:03:09,300 --> 00:03:11,800
or if that can even be done. Meanwhile,
60
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,000
cast struggles with the idea that she
is possibly the savior of the world,
61
00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,080
a world she is not sure is worth saving.
62
00:03:18,670 --> 00:03:21,200
Enclave publishing is the
publisher of blood secrets,
63
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:25,200
which is the exciting second book in
the Skyward series by Christy award
64
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:26,600
finalist Morgan Bussy.
65
00:03:26,610 --> 00:03:30,920
She's the winner of the sailor inspi
readers choice and Carol awards
66
00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:33,880
now available wherever
outstanding books are sold.
67
00:03:34,030 --> 00:03:37,160
It's also available in ebook and
in audio book for Oasis audio,
68
00:03:37,650 --> 00:03:41,720
visit enclave publishing.com for more
information on blood secrets and other
69
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,920
exciting titles, you can find
all those links currently at top.
70
00:03:44,940 --> 00:03:48,640
Our podcast sponsors page Laura
haven.com/podcast sponsors,
71
00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:53,280
or get the basic link of top our
show notes for episode one. Zach,
72
00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,640
are you hungry? Cause we had a big,
uh, pod style concession stand, uh,
73
00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,800
last week with Kevin McCreary
talking about Christian cringe. Uh,
74
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:01,560
I think there's still some leftovers. Uh,
75
00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,440
some of those are even
good one week later.
76
00:04:03,580 --> 00:04:06,120
So I've gotten those outta the
fridge put in the microwave.
77
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,040
some of them had to go in the
oven, uh, at four 50 degrees Fahrenheit.
78
00:04:10,100 --> 00:04:14,320
So I think they're just about ready for
us to pull off the aluminum foil and see
79
00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:15,480
what cheesy goodness awaits.
80
00:04:15,910 --> 00:04:18,280
Yeah. You know, just based
on the timing of this alone,
81
00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:20,640
I wonder if there's some
listeners out there thinking,
82
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,680
are they gonna talk about football because
isn't that the big thing that people
83
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,120
debate about around this
time of the year, but no,
84
00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:27,360
this is not a football podcast.
85
00:04:28,030 --> 00:04:32,280
This is a podcast about Christian
fiction and other sorts of pop culture.
86
00:04:32,540 --> 00:04:36,720
And that's what we're gonna be
diving into sort of, not indirectly,
87
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,720
I should say because there's
a lot of controversies about
a certain fandom right.
88
00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,600
Now. Yeah. That leads to the first, uh,
concession the one I had planned anyway,
89
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,960
the reason why we're revisiting this
topic now and not just to incidentally cap
90
00:04:47,980 --> 00:04:51,320
off a summer of hunt topics,
but because it turns out, uh,
91
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,680
I was looking at the calendar and the
week that this episode releases Lord
92
00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:55,480
willing, uh,
93
00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,800
there's gonna be another thing that
releases that we've just kind of ignored
94
00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,840
here. Maybe tossed a few
little barbs its direction,
95
00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:05,880
but I don't want to be aggressive
about a series that, uh,
96
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,320
however does seem to have been made. At
least in terms of the marketing Zach,
97
00:05:09,820 --> 00:05:13,280
uh, has, has, has been made
to polarize a fan base.
98
00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:17,720
Like some of the marketing choices they
made seem designed to dis unify rather
99
00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,640
than unify. So some of
that I don't think, uh,
100
00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:24,240
is the fan's fault and yet
no matter who started it, uh,
101
00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,520
Christians need to have good codes of
honor based in scripture to know how to
102
00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,960
finish it or avoid it or whatever your
response is to that kind of hot topic.
103
00:05:32,060 --> 00:05:35,760
So that's why we're talking about it now.
Uh, however like many of our episodes,
104
00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,840
we do want this theme to be evergreen. Uh,
105
00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:39,720
no matter what time you
listen to this episode,
106
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,000
there's probably some fan
dispute going on out there. Uh,
107
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,920
usually involving Christians
in some kind of creative group,
108
00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,000
whether it's an in person group, uh,
109
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,480
or more likely some kind of social
media circles of which you're a part.
110
00:05:51,660 --> 00:05:56,280
So this episode should apply to
name the dispute of your choice. Uh,
111
00:05:56,280 --> 00:05:59,290
also this episode is a
spiritual sequel to episode.
112
00:05:59,290 --> 00:06:02,730
We did just a few months ago,
115 about statements of faith.
113
00:06:02,870 --> 00:06:07,090
It was called how do Laura Haven creators
strive to follow biblical statements
114
00:06:07,150 --> 00:06:11,530
of faith? Uh, that one proved
surprisingly popular Zach, and to show,
115
00:06:11,530 --> 00:06:16,130
it seemed to make sense to follow up with
the other document we have helping to
116
00:06:16,290 --> 00:06:19,370
structure the Lord Haven Guild and
Laura Haven as a whole, uh, the,
117
00:06:19,410 --> 00:06:21,850
a code of honor that we put
together at the turn of this year,
118
00:06:22,270 --> 00:06:25,450
all of Laura Haven creators must
sign on to the faith statement. Uh,
119
00:06:25,450 --> 00:06:29,730
this is a Christian organization and we
define Christian by particular tenants
120
00:06:29,730 --> 00:06:32,650
that we have in that, uh, faith
statement, the sacred scrolls,
121
00:06:32,950 --> 00:06:37,050
but we also apply a written code of honor
to every member of the Guild. I mean,
122
00:06:37,050 --> 00:06:39,970
you don't have to follow that if
you're gonna comment at Laura Haven,
123
00:06:40,250 --> 00:06:43,170
anything like that, we have no way
of enforcing that, but for the Guild,
124
00:06:43,170 --> 00:06:46,610
which is our, uh, discord server,
uh, confidential server, it's,
125
00:06:46,610 --> 00:06:49,810
avitation only if you subscribe
free@laurahaven.com, uh,
126
00:06:49,810 --> 00:06:53,450
you do have to sign off to agree
to follow the code of honor. Uh,
127
00:06:53,450 --> 00:06:56,770
if you're going to be a member of the
Guild, even if you're not in leadership,
128
00:06:56,770 --> 00:07:00,130
even if you're not guiding one
of the monthly book quests, uh,
129
00:07:00,130 --> 00:07:03,370
Laura Haven is not a church or a
church substitute, of course, uh,
130
00:07:03,370 --> 00:07:05,410
we recognize our limits there. Uh,
131
00:07:05,410 --> 00:07:08,250
but we do want to mimic any
biblical local church, uh,
132
00:07:08,250 --> 00:07:12,050
that has faith statements and orthodoxy
and expectations for Christian behavior.
133
00:07:12,300 --> 00:07:16,410
Orthopraxy, uh, orthodoxy,
beliefs, behavior, ortho,
134
00:07:17,110 --> 00:07:19,730
the apostles expected
all believers to do this.
135
00:07:20,070 --> 00:07:22,570
And so should we just as a matter
of being brothers and sisters,
136
00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,930
even if we're not in the local church
with elders and deacons and things, uh,
137
00:07:25,930 --> 00:07:29,170
if we know these things, we'll
find confidence in Christ, uh,
138
00:07:29,170 --> 00:07:34,170
that can help us maybe see in biblical
light and avoid the ungodly behavior that
139
00:07:34,170 --> 00:07:38,970
we see even from other Christian family
members or the creators of big fantasy
140
00:07:39,180 --> 00:07:41,690
franchises or the big
corporations behind them,
141
00:07:42,180 --> 00:07:46,690
which it seems increasingly Zah like
to get the fans squabbling amongst
142
00:07:46,690 --> 00:07:50,010
themselves, toss out some accusations
and then see who emerges on top.
143
00:07:50,010 --> 00:07:53,730
But once the battle's over, I, I
don't like that kind of behavior. Uh,
144
00:07:53,730 --> 00:07:56,530
we've addressed that kind of thing
in previous episodes of the podcast,
145
00:07:56,870 --> 00:08:01,810
but now we're kind of trying to offer a
solution. Okay, you can't fix them, uh,
146
00:08:02,030 --> 00:08:06,410
but you can follow a code
of honor based in scripture.
147
00:08:06,630 --> 00:08:08,890
And this is what we're trying
to do at Laura Haven. Uh,
148
00:08:08,910 --> 00:08:12,730
the confidence that we have then if we're
re reacting to that kind of thing, uh,
149
00:08:12,750 --> 00:08:16,290
is not based in getting more powerful
than they are or knowing more biblical
150
00:08:16,300 --> 00:08:21,210
truth than they are. But by looking to
Jesus, we want to imitate his truth.
151
00:08:21,230 --> 00:08:24,170
We want to imitate his conduct, any, uh,
152
00:08:24,170 --> 00:08:27,250
other concessions you were thinking of
Zach while I was running through those.
153
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,450
Well, Naomi and I are going
through a marriage class right now.
154
00:08:30,470 --> 00:08:34,250
And a big thing we're talking about is
what were the expectations you had going
155
00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,650
into marriage and how are those
being fulfilled or not fulfilled?
156
00:08:37,710 --> 00:08:42,530
And just recognizing the expectations
you have in a certain relationship
157
00:08:42,910 --> 00:08:46,890
can help you get to the bottom of why
you're feeling a certain way about your
158
00:08:46,890 --> 00:08:47,090
spouse,
159
00:08:47,090 --> 00:08:50,050
but this really applies to any sort of
relationship or any community you're part
160
00:08:50,050 --> 00:08:54,910
of, there are expectations built
into every relationship. And, um,
161
00:08:54,910 --> 00:08:58,360
there, there are codes of conduct
for every relationship or community.
162
00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:03,040
And a lot of times they're just implicit
and there's a lot of cues you're
163
00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,040
supposed to pick up on,
164
00:09:04,620 --> 00:09:08,800
but this being a internet community where
there's no body language or anything
165
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,120
like that, we have to make everything
written. And so just in defense of, uh,
166
00:09:13,170 --> 00:09:14,003
codes of conduct,
167
00:09:14,140 --> 00:09:18,960
that's kind of why we made this
and why we made it so robust as
168
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,760
we're about to go into, uh,
169
00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:25,200
because we wanna make those expectations
as explicit, as clear as possible.
170
00:09:25,940 --> 00:09:28,720
Yes. And I also want to throw
out another concession there. Uh,
171
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:33,720
this is not to act like something
like a pacifist or soft pacifist or
172
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,200
anything like that. Uh, I recognize
that conflict is inevitable, uh,
173
00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,200
in a world that's been broken by
sin. Uh, it's also in some ways,
174
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:43,760
sometimes Zach healthy, you know,
175
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,680
conflict can be a way that people help
one another, uh, help one another learn.
176
00:09:48,020 --> 00:09:50,960
Uh, you can Exactly, uh, that is, uh,
177
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,840
an inherently conflicted act. Uh,
178
00:09:53,860 --> 00:09:57,000
you could have a teacher student
environment where there's some conflict,
179
00:09:57,020 --> 00:09:58,200
you can have healthy debate,
180
00:09:58,540 --> 00:10:01,640
but if the participants in the debate
are following a code of conduct,
181
00:10:01,910 --> 00:10:06,680
then hopefully, uh, the practice
benefits both partners of the debate, uh,
182
00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:08,680
as well as the moderator,
as well as the onlookers.
183
00:10:08,780 --> 00:10:11,520
So we don't do formal debates in
the Guild or anything like that,
184
00:10:11,580 --> 00:10:15,440
but we're not trying to make it a
conflict free zone. I would say,
185
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,600
although I just, I've not seen
yet anyway, eight months in, uh,
186
00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,880
the kind of conflict, uh, that would,
uh, compromise the group, you know,
187
00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,360
that would turn in into something
we don't mean it to be, uh,
188
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,560
we did have to kick one member,
uh, just once I will say,
189
00:10:29,740 --> 00:10:31,920
but it's only been one
so far and, you know,
190
00:10:32,030 --> 00:10:35,680
pray for the Guild that whether or not
you participate in that community, uh,
191
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,720
that's a record that I would like
to keep if at all possible. Uh,
192
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,440
we only lost one cuz the
person very clearly, uh,
193
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,880
had no intentions of actually
signing off on the code of honor. Uh,
194
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,720
this person was not a
professing Christian,
195
00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,040
but we don't require people
to be professing Christians,
196
00:10:49,110 --> 00:10:52,880
just follow the code of honor, which
however is going to be a lot easier.
197
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,320
In theory, if you have the holy spirit
inside you that makes you want to follow,
198
00:10:56,740 --> 00:11:00,720
uh, biblical principles of behavior. So
I think that's my last concession. Uh,
199
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,800
what we're gonna do now is just, uh, in
a sort of a three part, uh, format here.
200
00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:08,320
Uh, we're gonna go through the
tens of the code of honor document,
201
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,760
which of course you can find
linked in the show notes. Uh,
202
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,240
there's about two or three
of them per chapter here. Uh,
203
00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,680
we'll take breaks in between, uh,
let's go Zach then to chapter one,
204
00:11:16,820 --> 00:11:20,400
why we made a code of honor, uh,
to help us respect all members.
205
00:11:20,780 --> 00:11:23,800
So we'll go through each one and
offer some brief thoughts, uh,
206
00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,440
kind of unscripted here, similar to
what we did with the faith statement,
207
00:11:26,460 --> 00:11:29,320
but that turned out well, hope
this turns out well too first,
208
00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,080
just to specify again, uh,
209
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,840
Guild leaders and members are required
to follow the Lord Haven code of honor.
210
00:11:34,980 --> 00:11:37,120
So that's the document that, uh,
211
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,560
the members of the creative leadership
are looking at to help us discern,
212
00:11:41,820 --> 00:11:42,800
you know, okay, did this,
213
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,960
this person made an illusion to so and
so issue that's going on, you know, uh,
214
00:11:46,990 --> 00:11:51,120
does that break our, uh, our rule about
the, you know, political topics? Uh,
215
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,200
this is a guiding document that we we
use and it's got, I think, yeah, seven,
216
00:11:55,290 --> 00:11:58,440
seven parts to it. Uh, the
leadership team helped, uh,
217
00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,560
put these together at the turn of the
year when we launched the Guild and I will
218
00:12:02,620 --> 00:12:06,760
go through each one right now,
quoting directly, uh, quote one,
219
00:12:07,110 --> 00:12:08,160
keep to the code.
220
00:12:08,570 --> 00:12:12,760
Laura Haven Guild members may not
necessarily agree with the sacred scrolls
221
00:12:12,890 --> 00:12:14,600
faith statement. However,
222
00:12:14,740 --> 00:12:19,240
please recognize that Lord Haven and the
Lord Haven Guild are led by Christian
223
00:12:19,340 --> 00:12:22,600
guides. We encourage questions
of the biblical gospel,
224
00:12:22,940 --> 00:12:27,320
but we cannot tolerate attempts to
disparage this Christian faith or dissuade
225
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,920
other members from following
Jesus Christ end quote,
226
00:12:32,460 --> 00:12:36,520
and Zach I'm kind of reading
that now more as a reader, uh,
227
00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,080
rather than somebody who helped,
uh, draft the language there. Uh,
228
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:45,040
what I'm seeing there is an
intentional effort to make sure that
229
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,360
we define what we mean by Christian.
Yes, Christians can only be individuals,
230
00:12:49,540 --> 00:12:53,320
but Christian spaces, Christian
stuff, Christian groups,
231
00:12:53,460 --> 00:12:55,480
as we say in our title here, uh,
232
00:12:55,480 --> 00:13:00,440
they do carry the influence of
Christianity and we define what we mean by
233
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,800
Christianity in the faith
statement. But here,
234
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,920
we just want to make sure that
we don't have folks coming in,
235
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,560
even though there's a few
hoops to jump through,
236
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:12,280
like subscribing free to law Haven, uh,
in order to play stump the Christian,
237
00:13:12,620 --> 00:13:16,880
uh, or in order to advocate for another
religion. Like yeah, if, you know,
238
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,680
if you're a non-Christian of
course you're welcome here.
239
00:13:19,870 --> 00:13:23,000
Just like a non-Christian will be
welcome in the local church. Uh,
240
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,200
but although we're not a local church,
241
00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:27,480
so we also wanna follow the standard of
nobody gets the stand up in the middle
242
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,440
of the local church service
and disrupt the place. Uh,
243
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,400
all things must be done
decently and in order,
244
00:13:32,540 --> 00:13:37,040
and we do want that kind of creative order
here in the Guild with maybe a little
245
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,760
side project of evangelism
here and there. Uh,
246
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,280
not that we want a bunch of unbelievers
to come in so that we can throw Jesus at
247
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,480
them. We'd rather everybody
mostly be on the same page.
248
00:13:45,950 --> 00:13:47,280
Yeah. And I think here, we're just,
249
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,640
we're recognizing a very common
occurrence with online communities that,
250
00:13:52,420 --> 00:13:52,640
uh,
251
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,160
certain people want to be let into a
community who don't agree at all with the
252
00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,560
identity or purpose of that community.
Uh, but they demand to be let in,
253
00:14:00,790 --> 00:14:04,880
even though they have totally different
ideologies and they kind of bank on
254
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,280
people's empathy or sense of inclusion,
255
00:14:07,780 --> 00:14:11,360
and then they come into the community
and start subverting it, you know,
256
00:14:11,370 --> 00:14:15,760
start trying to speak against the
purpose of that community. Uh,
257
00:14:15,820 --> 00:14:20,720
and then basically just bait people
into fighting them and then,
258
00:14:20,780 --> 00:14:22,960
uh, it just goes off the rails from there.
259
00:14:23,180 --> 00:14:27,960
And so this happens all the time and
we just wanna be really clear upfront
260
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,780
with who we are and what we're
about and what we're not going to
261
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,620
accept in this community, because this
is a private community. This is not,
262
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,860
you know, some social media platform
or anyone's allowed to do whatever.
263
00:14:40,860 --> 00:14:45,450
This is not a blog comment section.
Uh, this is a private group.
264
00:14:45,630 --> 00:14:47,850
And so to be in this
group, this is, you know,
265
00:14:47,850 --> 00:14:51,530
the first thing that is required is
that you honor the purpose of the group.
266
00:14:51,530 --> 00:14:54,730
And again, people may come here and
I, I hope people come here that,
267
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,530
that aren't believers and I hope
they find it to be a fun place. Um,
268
00:14:58,530 --> 00:15:00,570
and I hope we can have fun
discussions about fiction.
269
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:06,090
Exactly. And another concession, I would
say a bit, uh, later R here just, uh,
270
00:15:06,090 --> 00:15:10,210
forgotten and in the back of the fridge,
is that some communities I would say,
271
00:15:10,390 --> 00:15:14,210
are made for those kinds of
rowdier discussions, like yes,
272
00:15:14,950 --> 00:15:19,050
if you're into like mixed martial
arts fighting, or as you said earlier,
273
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,490
Zach wrestling, you know, some kind of
sports competition so long as it it's,
274
00:15:23,490 --> 00:15:27,410
uh, you know, being formed by rules and
refers and all of that, uh, you know,
275
00:15:27,410 --> 00:15:30,810
and, and penalties, if he, you
break them or eject the coach,
276
00:15:30,810 --> 00:15:33,650
if he's throwing a chair on the
basketball court or something like that,
277
00:15:33,870 --> 00:15:37,490
and that's as sportsy as it's probably
ever gonna get you a fantastical truth,
278
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,490
that kinda thing is appropriate
there. But in this case, uh,
279
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:43,770
it's the Lord Haven Guild,
280
00:15:43,830 --> 00:15:48,010
or maybe you have another creative group
that you're a part of it's appropriate
281
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,250
then to set expectations like, okay,
that maybe find out there, you know,
282
00:15:52,270 --> 00:15:56,130
it may be good then to go to a political
rally and yell and support your guy or
283
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:58,250
gal and, you know, and
then boo the competition.
284
00:15:58,790 --> 00:16:02,930
But we're not gonna do that here,
not here in the living room, uh,
285
00:16:02,950 --> 00:16:04,930
not here in the fellowship hall. Uh,
286
00:16:04,930 --> 00:16:09,210
it's just simply a matter of defining
the purpose of a space, uh, and almost,
287
00:16:09,390 --> 00:16:11,930
uh, forming a kind of dress code. Uh,
288
00:16:11,930 --> 00:16:14,250
it may be appropriate to dress
one particular way for the pool.
289
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:16,370
And Christians can debate that over there.
290
00:16:16,770 --> 00:16:17,230
oh, no.
291
00:16:17,230 --> 00:16:19,850
But over here, yeah. Keep all
your clothes on. You know,
292
00:16:19,980 --> 00:16:21,690
we're not going swimming here, you know,
293
00:16:21,750 --> 00:16:25,370
you may not need to wear a three
piece suit, uh, if you are a man,
294
00:16:25,550 --> 00:16:28,530
but you should have something on,
you know, dress for the occasion,
295
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:33,410
behave for the occasion. And in this
case, the occasion is a Christian space,
296
00:16:33,510 --> 00:16:36,530
uh, to discuss Christian
ideas in fantastical stories.
297
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,930
Yeah. And I, I like that we have that
upfront Steven, because, you know,
298
00:16:40,930 --> 00:16:44,890
we've decided that we don't want to just
be a book and movie discussion group
299
00:16:44,890 --> 00:16:48,490
that happens to be Christian. You
know, we wanted to be Christian first.
300
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:53,680
Like this is primarily a space for
the Christian faith through the lens
301
00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:57,560
of fiction. Christianity is central
to the purpose for our Guild,
302
00:16:57,710 --> 00:17:00,510
like our Christian faith, you know, it's,
303
00:17:00,510 --> 00:17:02,350
it's the foundation for
why we're doing this.
304
00:17:02,350 --> 00:17:05,950
It's not just an added ingredient
to being geeks or whatever.
305
00:17:06,810 --> 00:17:11,580
And so I like that we put that
up front because that for other
306
00:17:11,580 --> 00:17:16,300
Christians that really want to talk
to other Christians about movies and
307
00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:20,260
films and books and stories, you know,
that that's who we're trying to bring in.
308
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,540
And then for anyone else that
is like, well, I, you know,
309
00:17:23,540 --> 00:17:27,140
I have a lot of Christian friends, but
I'm not a Christian. Well, that's fine.
310
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:31,490
But just recognize that
this is primarily a,
311
00:17:31,770 --> 00:17:33,970
a space to promote Christian belief.
312
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,410
Exactly. Hey, I just
remembered that a few days ago,
313
00:17:37,450 --> 00:17:39,010
I actually got an email from somebody.
314
00:17:39,050 --> 00:17:42,130
I think they were replying to the do
not reply address, but that's okay.
315
00:17:42,530 --> 00:17:44,490
the person was saying,
Hey, I'm, I'm not a Christian.
316
00:17:44,490 --> 00:17:48,330
Can I still join the group? I still need
to reply to that person and say, yes,
317
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,560
just look to the code of honor. Number
one, like this is the purpose here.
318
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,200
We're not requiring that of everybody
just don't come in there. You know,
319
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,440
don't sign your kid up for
the Christian school. Uh,
320
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,840
and then be shocked that they're
teaching and expecting a Christian sexual
321
00:18:00,980 --> 00:18:04,320
ethics, which is another controversy
that's been going on lately. Um,
322
00:18:04,340 --> 00:18:08,840
that's just plain old, silly, uh, I
wouldn't sign up for the atheist school,
323
00:18:09,220 --> 00:18:12,320
uh, and then be stunned that
they're teaching my kid atheism. Uh,
324
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,560
don't try to change the
group from the inside. Uh,
325
00:18:14,580 --> 00:18:17,960
if this is the group's very clear,
written, stated expectation.
326
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,170
Yeah. Hey, you know, on that note,
327
00:18:20,170 --> 00:18:23,410
that's funny you say that
when I was in college, um, I,
328
00:18:23,570 --> 00:18:26,770
I met a friend that was in an atheist
group, and so I asked where they meet,
329
00:18:26,850 --> 00:18:31,210
I just wanted to listen in and I
went there and it was a very, uh,
330
00:18:32,450 --> 00:18:35,130
academic discussion. They were having
about some topic and I was just like,
331
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,890
okay, this is interesting, a
little boring, but, you know,
332
00:18:37,890 --> 00:18:39,090
I just wanted to kinda listen in.
333
00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:42,290
And then right in the middle
of them talking this, this, uh,
334
00:18:42,650 --> 00:18:46,210
freshman student stood
up and, and said, uh,
335
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,450
what does any of this have to do
with evolution versus creation?
336
00:18:49,450 --> 00:18:53,050
And they're like, what
it was like, so like off topic.
337
00:18:53,390 --> 00:18:56,050
Oh, like she, did we have some
Christian cringe going on? Perhaps?
338
00:18:56,050 --> 00:18:59,370
Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of cringe.
It was like, okay. Mm. And I,
339
00:18:59,530 --> 00:19:02,410
I wanted to kind of take her aside,
like, Hey, we're on the same team,
340
00:19:02,410 --> 00:19:05,490
but just like, you know, hold your
horses a little bit, you know,
341
00:19:05,490 --> 00:19:09,610
like like, don't just drop
the truth bomb and then run, you know?
342
00:19:09,610 --> 00:19:11,170
Yeah. Play that forward
in your imagination.
343
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:14,930
Do you actually see anybody ready to
convert or even pre pre pre pre pre
344
00:19:14,930 --> 00:19:17,170
conversion at that point?
Uh, not really. Yeah.
345
00:19:17,170 --> 00:19:18,490
Just gonna add more heat than light.
346
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:19,993
Yeah.
347
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:24,460
Let's go to the code of honor. Uh,
number two here, uh, speaking of, uh,
348
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,180
not offending people, uh,
349
00:19:26,180 --> 00:19:28,740
in the name of sharing some light
and just end up sharing heat,
350
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,140
we have number two, respect everyone.
351
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:35,220
Every person in your quest
party is created in God's image.
352
00:19:35,630 --> 00:19:39,940
Every novel author is also created
and is creating in God's image
353
00:19:40,250 --> 00:19:42,460
because all people,
whether celebrity stranger,
354
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,980
friend or family reflects this very
image of God, they are worthy of respect.
355
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,340
We will uphold this
biblical gracious respect.
356
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,540
That's the quote and Zach reading that.
Now it, it seems a little general,
357
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,660
but that's on purpose. Uh,
358
00:19:56,660 --> 00:20:00,780
we want to have that principle at
the back of someone's head. Uh,
359
00:20:00,780 --> 00:20:02,940
we want to internalize that in our hearts,
360
00:20:03,170 --> 00:20:06,900
that the purpose of respecting people is
not just to give them or tell them what
361
00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:11,460
they want. Uh, the purpose of
respecting people is the Imago day.
362
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,620
God has made that person in his
image and breathed into that person,
363
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,740
the breath of life, God defines
the reason why we respect people,
364
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,980
try to honor them as
his image bearers. Uh,
365
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,020
God defines that not
people defining that, uh,
366
00:20:26,020 --> 00:20:28,420
which may be a little bit
different from other, uh,
367
00:20:28,510 --> 00:20:32,220
codes of honor written or otherwise
that you see in other groups, uh,
368
00:20:32,530 --> 00:20:36,260
fantastical or geeky or otherwise.
Uh, there's kind of this, uh,
369
00:20:36,260 --> 00:20:40,740
this shared idea of respect
that gets defined by memes
370
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:41,780
and, uh,
371
00:20:41,780 --> 00:20:46,060
partially remembered phrases and
moralities from a hodgepodge of religions.
372
00:20:46,060 --> 00:20:50,680
Most of them shaped now by the popular
media and by political agendas. Uh,
373
00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:52,280
this here I think is, uh,
374
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:55,880
is a principle that goes all the
way back to Genesis chapter one,
375
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,640
describing the creation of man and woman.
376
00:20:57,990 --> 00:21:02,400
Yeah. You know, the, the phrase I like
is critique the work, not the person, um,
377
00:21:02,420 --> 00:21:05,760
you know, attack the work, if you
think it needs to be attacked and,
378
00:21:05,780 --> 00:21:08,600
and taken apart, but don't
attack the person, uh,
379
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,400
the person that created that work. Now,
admittedly, this is hard. Uh, this is,
380
00:21:13,790 --> 00:21:17,320
this is a hard rule to abide by
sometimes because it's hard to sometimes
381
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,200
separate the art from the artist. Um,
382
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,960
and I think it's even harder to
even be aware of this rule when
383
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,120
you're in an in group and you're sort of
critiquing something from an outgroup.
384
00:21:29,780 --> 00:21:30,600
And so I,
385
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,680
I think that this calls on us to sort
of police each other in ourselves and I
386
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,480
mean, not police, but, you know, remind
each other that, Hey, let, let's,
387
00:21:38,660 --> 00:21:42,920
you know, let's hold to this
rule, uh, be because look,
388
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,020
there are plenty of forums that
you can join that are just,
389
00:21:47,710 --> 00:21:52,500
uh, where everything gets very personal
and everything gets very, you know, uh,
390
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:56,260
offensive, like just, we don't need
to go there. like, there's,
391
00:21:56,570 --> 00:21:59,140
there's many other forums for
that. If you wanna do that.
392
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,780
So that that's not what we want
to create in this community.
393
00:22:02,170 --> 00:22:04,900
Exactly. I note they're
the language too about, uh,
394
00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:09,140
respecting every author of the novel
and, uh, in the Lord Haven Guild,
395
00:22:09,170 --> 00:22:12,700
there's a slight chance unless
the author is Tolkin or Lewis, uh,
396
00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:14,500
that the author could be there.
397
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,060
And that has actually happened a few
times with some of the monthly book quests
398
00:22:18,060 --> 00:22:19,700
that we hosted. Uh, however,
399
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:24,180
we try to pick books that we believe
the majority of participants will enjoy,
400
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,100
and we're not picking a random book that
Lord Haven is not reviewed or is not
401
00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:29,180
aware of. Uh,
402
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,940
and we're always focusing on Christian
made fantasy or science fiction there
403
00:22:32,970 --> 00:22:35,660
it's, it's all Christian made
titles, uh, that we're picking,
404
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,260
but some of the authors are very involved
in, uh, fan communities like ours.
405
00:22:40,260 --> 00:22:43,300
And so they may be showing up,
which may make it a little bit, uh,
406
00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:47,380
easier to respect that person because
he or she is actually there, uh,
407
00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:49,460
as opposed to being an author who is, uh,
408
00:22:49,460 --> 00:22:53,340
no longer with us or who is not
participating in the book west, uh,
409
00:22:53,420 --> 00:22:56,740
I will say Zach, that I'm
very happy overall, uh,
410
00:22:56,850 --> 00:22:58,940
with the way that this
has gone in the Guild,
411
00:22:59,010 --> 00:23:03,180
because although we have chosen titles
that we want everybody to like that are
412
00:23:03,180 --> 00:23:05,020
fairly non-controversial
like, for example,
413
00:23:05,020 --> 00:23:07,820
we've got the Hobbit quest party
coming up here in September.
414
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,060
By the time you listen to this episode,
it may have already started. Uh,
415
00:23:11,060 --> 00:23:14,180
we did at least at one point or I
did, let's not use the, we there,
416
00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:18,540
I chose a book, uh, back in the
spring actually, uh, that was the, uh,
417
00:23:18,540 --> 00:23:21,940
the seventh sun by the now
late Lonnie Forbes, which had,
418
00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:25,660
I would suppose some
controversial elements in there.
Uh, some central bits, uh,
419
00:23:25,660 --> 00:23:29,660
kind of some Y a type, uh, heavy
breathing content between, uh,
420
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,260
two members of the teenage cast.
421
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,460
And that I knew would be a
little bit controversial.
422
00:23:34,460 --> 00:23:37,980
And so I'm still thinking about like,
well, did I, did I choose right? You know,
423
00:23:37,980 --> 00:23:42,980
was this a good title at a good time
for this group? And I know however that,
424
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,930
uh, members in that quest party,
uh, appreciated the story overall,
425
00:23:47,070 --> 00:23:51,530
but we did have some debate about that
level of content and whether it was age
426
00:23:51,530 --> 00:23:53,130
appropriate for particular readers.
427
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:55,970
And that was the kind of
discussion I was hoping to see.
428
00:23:56,380 --> 00:24:00,890
Could we discuss the themes and the
content and the descriptions of the book,
429
00:24:01,430 --> 00:24:01,650
uh,
430
00:24:01,650 --> 00:24:06,650
without disrespecting the author and
from my memory of that particular
431
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,170
book west, I think all of our
heroes and the Guild did very well.
432
00:24:10,460 --> 00:24:14,250
Would I choose a book like that just to
see what would happen even a little bit?
433
00:24:14,710 --> 00:24:18,810
No, maybe not, but in that case, it
wouldn't be because, uh, that, uh,
434
00:24:18,810 --> 00:24:21,130
case study did not go
well. It actually did,
435
00:24:21,550 --> 00:24:24,570
but we just wanna make sure that we
choose titles that are, you know,
436
00:24:24,790 --> 00:24:27,610
not going to add a lot of heat, uh,
437
00:24:27,610 --> 00:24:31,050
to the discussion where people will
have to cool themselves down. Uh,
438
00:24:31,050 --> 00:24:34,490
we wanna choose titles that will add
light to the discussion for the purpose of
439
00:24:34,490 --> 00:24:35,070
respecting,
440
00:24:35,070 --> 00:24:38,410
not just the author of the story or the
characters in the story or the themes,
441
00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:42,450
uh, but helping to respect one another
as Guild heroes who bear God's image.
442
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,290
Yeah. And that right
there is a great reminder.
443
00:24:44,580 --> 00:24:48,210
We're gonna pick books that not
everyone's gonna like there,
444
00:24:48,210 --> 00:24:51,370
or that might have elements, not
everyone is comfortable with. Um,
445
00:24:52,190 --> 00:24:56,250
and people are going to have varying
levels of enjoyment or those elements or
446
00:24:56,250 --> 00:24:57,083
those books.
447
00:24:57,540 --> 00:25:01,200
And so that's where we just have to
assume the best about everyone else and
448
00:25:01,290 --> 00:25:02,640
their enjoyment of those books.
449
00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:07,680
It's okay to disagree about these things
about whether or not these elements
450
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,880
should be in books or, or if
you like them or not. Yeah.
451
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,540
It's just not okay to attack
someone else for their taste
452
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:16,513
in books.
453
00:25:16,530 --> 00:25:19,020
Exactly. And I'd say by
the way, faithful listener,
454
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,460
we may have another accidental test case
coming up simply because of that prime
455
00:25:22,460 --> 00:25:23,860
debate. I mentioned, uh,
456
00:25:23,860 --> 00:25:26,980
we'll get to that in a moment when we
talk about number four here of the code of
457
00:25:26,980 --> 00:25:27,813
honor,
458
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,100
but I've seen plenty of punditry about
that particular series that singles out,
459
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,020
uh, cast members or the showrunners
by name, uh, who as far as I know,
460
00:25:36,020 --> 00:25:36,860
are not Christians.
461
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,220
And of course are not going to appear
in the Guild to defend their work or see
462
00:25:40,220 --> 00:25:42,900
what you're saying about them.
So how do we handle then, uh,
463
00:25:42,930 --> 00:25:47,740
franchise runners or a corporate chiefs
who have no part of the Guild? Well,
464
00:25:47,780 --> 00:25:51,260
I think the same principle applies that
you wanna respect that person as God's
465
00:25:51,260 --> 00:25:52,050
image bearer,
466
00:25:52,050 --> 00:25:55,260
even if you couldn't disagree more
strongly of with the type of creative work
467
00:25:55,260 --> 00:25:58,820
that they have done. Uh, we do have a
channel called middle earth, which is, uh,
468
00:25:58,820 --> 00:26:02,300
just for all purpose, uh, discussion
about all things Tolkin. Uh,
469
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:05,500
there's a lot of channels that, uh,
go off in different directions, uh,
470
00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:10,300
related to Christian made fantasy and
sometimes secular fantasy as well. Uh,
471
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:12,340
but those are, I would
say the side quests, uh,
472
00:26:12,340 --> 00:26:15,180
we're focusing mainly on each
one of the book quests, uh,
473
00:26:15,180 --> 00:26:17,220
that we change every month
in the Lord Haven Guild,
474
00:26:17,670 --> 00:26:21,060
which leads me to our second sponsor
for this episode, the Lord Haven Guild,
475
00:26:21,060 --> 00:26:23,740
we had a slot open, so I
rushed in and took it. Uh,
476
00:26:23,740 --> 00:26:27,620
we are going there and back
again with our Hobbit book quest,
477
00:26:27,780 --> 00:26:30,660
a starting on Monday,
September the fifth. Yes,
478
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:35,180
we are doing it for September just in
time for Hobbit day, which is true fans.
479
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,420
No is on September the 22nd.
480
00:26:37,980 --> 00:26:41,220
A Hobbit book quest will go through
all 19 chapters of the Hobbit.
481
00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:44,680
It's being led by faithful book
quest leader, Elijah David.
482
00:26:45,060 --> 00:26:49,480
And we're gonna have fun with this. I
really, really enjoy, uh, the Hobbit. Uh,
483
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:50,800
I think in the past,
484
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,480
I think I may have actually read the Lord
of the rings first before the Hobbit,
485
00:26:55,650 --> 00:26:59,040
maybe because I had to catch up in
a hurry before seeing the moves.
486
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,000
Unfortunately, I was one
of those late coming fans,
487
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:05,920
but do not let them tell you that
the Hoit is a children's story.
488
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,080
Whereas the Lord of the rings is the
more mature grownup book for more mature
489
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,720
grownups. Uh, the Hobbit has a different
flavor, certainly at the first,
490
00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:17,640
but one of the observations I love to
make about the story is that while it
491
00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:19,840
starts off very whimsical and charming,
492
00:27:20,260 --> 00:27:23,640
and then for some reason you
have a talking purse, uh,
493
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,280
from the troll that Billbo fails to
pick pocket and who gives off the alert.
494
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,600
And it's a weird element like that, uh,
495
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,120
stuff like that does happen in the Lord
of the rings too. Tom Bombadil, anyone,
496
00:27:33,540 --> 00:27:36,040
the talking, thinking Fox, anyone, uh,
497
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,160
Tolkin likes to go for
those whimsical things.
498
00:27:38,300 --> 00:27:42,880
And yet the Hoit starts off more whimsical
and they gets more and more mature to
499
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,760
the end. And then by the
end, in my interpretation,
500
00:27:45,780 --> 00:27:50,280
you find basically a challenge and the
best kind of subversion of the whole king
501
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,920
Arthur comes back to take is
kingdom motif, which in my view,
502
00:27:54,030 --> 00:27:58,120
sets up the return to the king and
the whole king narrative and the whole
503
00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:00,080
suffering servant narrative
throughout the Lord of the ring.
504
00:28:00,140 --> 00:28:03,640
So all the stories are connected and we're
gonna find those connections and have
505
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:07,400
fun respecting each other and enjoying
the Christian themes that Tolkin couldn't
506
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,600
help, but include in his story
to join the Laura Haven Guild,
507
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,480
just go to Laura haven.com and subscribe
free, enter your email address.
508
00:28:14,860 --> 00:28:19,440
And then we will send you the
exclusive invitation to this long
509
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:20,793
expected party.
510
00:28:20,910 --> 00:28:24,600
Just go to Laura haven.com and we will
see you in the Guild where you too can be
511
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:25,433
a Guild hero.
512
00:28:26,220 --> 00:28:27,840
Yes. And towards the end of September,
513
00:28:28,060 --> 00:28:31,400
we are going to have a video discussion,
514
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,320
a live video in real time discussion
about the Hobbit that's gonna be on
515
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,640
Saturday, September 24th. So look
for that announcement in the Guild,
516
00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:41,000
in that book quest,
517
00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:44,920
and you can join in and share
your thoughts about the.
518
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,520
Hobbit. I'm looking forward to this. I've
already been listening to the Hobbit,
519
00:28:48,540 --> 00:28:52,520
uh, turns out there was a sale from
that same company that we are sort of,
520
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,320
kind of maybe talking about here
and there. They're not all bad.
521
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,800
They put the Hobbit and the Lord of the
ring's audio books on sale narrated by
522
00:29:00,660 --> 00:29:01,390
and.
523
00:29:01,390 --> 00:29:02,140
Circles.
524
00:29:02,140 --> 00:29:04,960
And he does a fantastic job,
not just with the Gollum voice,
525
00:29:05,060 --> 00:29:08,280
but by doing voices for all the cast
members, I'm really enjoying it.
526
00:29:08,660 --> 00:29:11,080
And at least at one point,
Zach, I was having a bad day,
527
00:29:11,620 --> 00:29:15,040
one chapter of circus reading the
Hobbit in his inevitable style.
528
00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:18,080
And my bad mood was
just gone. So props you,
529
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,840
Andy circus don't know whether you're
a Christian, but God used you that day.
530
00:29:21,180 --> 00:29:25,440
God can use non-Christians and certainly
non-Christians who help make Christian
531
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:26,760
stories like Laura, the rings.
532
00:29:26,930 --> 00:29:29,120
How's his impersonation
of sir Ian McLellan.
533
00:29:29,660 --> 00:29:32,960
You know, it actually is
pretty good. Uh, it's not,
534
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:37,240
it's not all an impression of sir
Ian McLellan, uh, as Gandolph,
535
00:29:37,620 --> 00:29:41,440
but you can tell that he is
definitely being inspired by, I mean,
536
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,600
obviously the cast member of
performances in the movies,
537
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,120
in which he played GOM and other roles.
So, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's really fun.
538
00:29:49,220 --> 00:29:50,840
And what I appreciate too, uh,
539
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:55,880
is that when it comes time for one
of the many songs in the Hoit circus
540
00:29:55,910 --> 00:30:00,200
will just sing it, he will just,
wow. And a man's got pipes. Yeah. I,
541
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,040
I don't think I've heard him sing before.
Uh, it is, it's obviously him singing.
542
00:30:04,110 --> 00:30:08,520
Like he's, he's definitely singing, uh,
in character, but for example, with the,
543
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:09,920
with the song that the dwarf sing,
544
00:30:10,050 --> 00:30:13,400
while they're pretending to do all
the things that bill lo Bains hates,
545
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,480
I was listening and wondering, are they
going to do the tune from the movies?
546
00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:21,240
Are they gonna do the tune from
the movies? Yes, yes, they did.
547
00:30:21,540 --> 00:30:24,520
It wasn't exactly the tune because
for the, uh, the words of the song,
548
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,840
they have to actually change,
uh, for the movies to,
549
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,640
to fit the meter that they put
together. But the tune that circus does,
550
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,480
I don't know whether he, he, uh, adapted
it or who would've done that, uh,
551
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,840
it is just basically 75 to
80%, the tune from the, uh,
552
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,760
the film version of the Hobbit. So,
wow. I'm looking forward to that. Cool.
553
00:30:42,030 --> 00:30:44,440
Yeah. That's one reason why I will
defend the Hobbitt films. They,
554
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,120
they don't mind doing the songs they
put in a bunch of other nonsense,
555
00:30:47,140 --> 00:30:51,240
but they actually do have the songs in
there, which I appreciate them. Anyway.
556
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,040
I don't mean to, uh, belabor that,
uh, self, uh, self endorsement, uh,
557
00:30:55,060 --> 00:30:57,640
too much longer. Let's go to
chapter two of our discussion,
558
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,440
a few more tenets of the code of honor,
559
00:30:59,750 --> 00:31:04,560
chapter two is called how the code of
honor aims to discipline controversial
560
00:31:04,780 --> 00:31:07,320
topics. So this is where we get into, uh,
561
00:31:07,340 --> 00:31:10,800
the most PO possibly the most
interesting portion here, uh,
562
00:31:10,820 --> 00:31:15,200
of the discussion because we among the
Laura Haven staff creators wanted to make
563
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,720
sure that people felt the freedom to
talk about some things that did not
564
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:21,160
constantly feel, uh,
565
00:31:21,190 --> 00:31:25,120
like the mods were going to descend upon
them with all the wrath of the mods.
566
00:31:25,900 --> 00:31:30,760
But we also wanted to set clear
expectations that some topics were simply
567
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,760
not going to be allowed,
not because they're evil,
568
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,040
but simply because there's some things
we wanted to keep and other people's
569
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,200
comments, sections not necessarily here
at the Guild. And so this next one, uh,
570
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,600
needed a lot of sharpening among the
staff creators. Let's see how we did.
571
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,080
Number three, avoid swearing sex talk,
572
00:31:47,300 --> 00:31:49,640
and harassment scripture says,
573
00:31:49,820 --> 00:31:53,400
let there be no filthiness nor
foolish talk nor crude joking,
574
00:31:53,450 --> 00:31:56,000
which are out of place
Ephesians five, four,
575
00:31:56,580 --> 00:32:00,640
we apply this standard to the Guild,
avoid vulgarities, profanities,
576
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,040
and misuses of God's title,
including in acronyms. Yes,
577
00:32:05,270 --> 00:32:09,400
some books for main quests or
side quests may include language.
578
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,240
We wouldn't ourselves use in the Guild.
579
00:32:11,780 --> 00:32:16,080
If you are uncertain about a word
avoid using it, or ask a Guild guide,
580
00:32:16,430 --> 00:32:20,920
members must avoid sexualized
comments about characters or actual
581
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,960
harassment of real people. This
does not refer to disagreements,
582
00:32:25,420 --> 00:32:30,320
but does include yet is not limited
to slander or vulgar language
583
00:32:30,890 --> 00:32:34,040
moderators will help with
resolutions as needed.
584
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,300
So that last sentence there,
faithful listener, uh,
585
00:32:37,300 --> 00:32:40,360
keeps things a little
bit more open ended. Uh,
586
00:32:40,390 --> 00:32:43,320
some things are gonna be
subjective. We recognize that,
587
00:32:43,660 --> 00:32:46,240
but apart from the one scenario
I mentioned earlier, uh,
588
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,280
I can't recall that we've actually
had any issues with this. Zach,
589
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,720
it seems that more people
embrace this with relief, uh,
590
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,360
rather than Shaf against
it with annoyance. Uh,
591
00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,080
we haven't had people coming in there,
uh, misusing God's title or God's name,
592
00:33:00,540 --> 00:33:03,960
uh, and using vulgarities that,
uh, would violate the spirit,
593
00:33:04,020 --> 00:33:06,680
if not the law of a verse
like Ephesians five, four.
594
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:09,090
You know, just this weekend,
595
00:33:09,570 --> 00:33:14,210
I was online and saw a post from
someone I follow just well known,
596
00:33:14,430 --> 00:33:18,810
um, political type who happens
to be a Christian. And, uh,
597
00:33:18,810 --> 00:33:22,370
someone commented underneath that
and said, you know, I, I respect you.
598
00:33:22,490 --> 00:33:25,210
I follow you. I support your
work. You're doing great,
599
00:33:25,310 --> 00:33:30,210
but can you please not say OMG, because
that is taking God's name in vain.
600
00:33:30,710 --> 00:33:33,850
And I was like, well, well,
that's great. You know, like, and,
601
00:33:33,850 --> 00:33:35,610
and I think we all need
that again. It's like,
602
00:33:35,610 --> 00:33:40,300
we need to sort of correct ourselves,
sharpen each other by saying,
603
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:44,580
let let's kinda leave that aside
that that's gonna be on, you know,
604
00:33:44,580 --> 00:33:48,370
the Twitter sphere, the
Facebook verse, but in here, we,
605
00:33:48,430 --> 00:33:53,370
we really want to be careful to
honor God by not taking his name
606
00:33:53,370 --> 00:33:54,810
in vain. And, and that's, you know,
607
00:33:55,930 --> 00:34:00,480
using those initials is obviously
just the first step in this,
608
00:34:00,980 --> 00:34:04,270
uh, honoring this
commandment. But, um, yeah,
609
00:34:04,270 --> 00:34:07,750
it can be very easy to
slip into, uh, vulgarity,
610
00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:11,270
be easy to slip into profanity.
Uh, and like you said,
611
00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:14,790
it it's very easy with
acronyms, so there's a lot of
acronyms we could use that.
612
00:34:15,610 --> 00:34:19,030
Uh, we're not going to mention on the
era, this is not the George Carlin, uh,
613
00:34:19,030 --> 00:34:22,980
podcast, but, um, you know, and Steven,
614
00:34:23,290 --> 00:34:25,540
this was my life before
I was a Christian. I,
615
00:34:25,900 --> 00:34:30,180
I had plenty of profanity in my everyday
speech and it took through a couple
616
00:34:30,180 --> 00:34:33,700
years of college when I started walking
with the Lord to really work that out in
617
00:34:33,700 --> 00:34:36,990
my system. And it's not that I never,
you know, I, I don't wanna say I,
618
00:34:37,140 --> 00:34:41,100
I've never used a swear word
since then. I, um, but I,
619
00:34:41,220 --> 00:34:45,220
I try very hard not to let that
be part of my normal conversation.
620
00:34:45,240 --> 00:34:49,260
And I think the holy spirit just
has to work in a person's life, um,
621
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:54,070
to remove that. But yeah, we, we
don't want this to be a, uh, a,
622
00:34:54,150 --> 00:34:57,790
a place full of that. I mean, we want
this to be family friendly and I,
623
00:34:57,910 --> 00:35:02,310
I don't know what the minimum age limit
of discord is or what even we'd feel
624
00:35:02,310 --> 00:35:04,630
comfortable with, I guess it's
13 or 16 or something like that.
625
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:08,390
I think 13 has been the in theory
standard for a lot of social media.
626
00:35:08,670 --> 00:35:12,390
I think that is the same for discord,
but I mean, if it was, you know,
627
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,950
eight years old or 31
years old for that matter,
628
00:35:15,150 --> 00:35:18,430
I think we would still want to avoid
this kind of language. I'm noting.
629
00:35:18,430 --> 00:35:22,110
Here's exactly. We put, uh, the, the,
uh, the bands on vulgarity and profanity,
630
00:35:22,110 --> 00:35:23,550
which by the way, are different, uh,
631
00:35:23,550 --> 00:35:25,990
vulgar are about bodily
functions and such like,
632
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:29,870
and profanity is specifically about
a divine language or, you know,
633
00:35:30,050 --> 00:35:32,910
places that you end up,
uh, after death. Uh,
634
00:35:32,910 --> 00:35:36,270
those are two different
things and Christians can
debate about what word counts
635
00:35:36,270 --> 00:35:38,120
as what, and that's why, why
we put the catch all there,
636
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,520
that moderators will help with resolutions
as needed. It really comes down to,
637
00:35:42,100 --> 00:35:46,040
uh, moderator decisions if we have
a, a difficult case of some kind.
638
00:35:46,580 --> 00:35:48,320
But I did notice that we put in there, uh,
639
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:53,200
the rule on language and the rule on
harassment, uh, in the same place. And I,
640
00:35:53,420 --> 00:35:56,520
I'm looking at that now and kind of
interpreting in part my own work there.
641
00:35:56,540 --> 00:35:59,800
And I'm thinking that the reason why
both of those go into one tenant,
642
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,720
number three of the code of honor,
is that the root there is anger. Uh,
643
00:36:03,950 --> 00:36:08,360
both of these are violations of
the rule earlier, respect everyone.
644
00:36:08,460 --> 00:36:10,880
If you're respecting everyone,
you're not going to harass them,
645
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,120
and you're not going to use vulgarity's
profanities and misuses of God's title,
646
00:36:14,340 --> 00:36:19,080
cetera, uh, showing respect, rules
out these things automatically.
647
00:36:19,180 --> 00:36:21,600
So number three really just
comes off of number two.
648
00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:25,600
And if you have a different
spirit in your heart,
649
00:36:25,620 --> 00:36:28,400
if you have an attitude
toward love and respect, I,
650
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,000
I think that's going to be the change
from within whether you're a Christian or
651
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,640
not, but most likely if
you're a Christian, cuz it's
the holy spirit doing that,
652
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:34,920
you know,
653
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,280
you can work on that on your self and try
to fix yourself and respect people and
654
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:38,520
all that.
655
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,720
But I think it's ultimately gonna be
harder if you're not a Christian and
656
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:44,680
eternally, it's not going to
count, but in either case,
657
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,000
I think you are capable of showing
respect and love toward other people, uh,
658
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,160
that will lead naturally toward avoiding
these kinds of habits of harassment and
659
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,440
such, uh, without you having to
have a specific rule about it.
660
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,200
And that's the type of person, uh,
we want to attract it to be a hero,
661
00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:01,360
to be rightly called a hero
in the Lord Haven Guild.
662
00:37:01,590 --> 00:37:01,880
Well,
663
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,440
and this is to say nothing of the fact
that discord allows you to block people
664
00:37:05,460 --> 00:37:08,240
or mute things or whatever. And so, uh,
665
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:12,200
frankly I would guess that people just
do that first before complaining to a
666
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:16,280
moderator. Um, it's just so easy to do
that, you know, with digital media, but,
667
00:37:16,980 --> 00:37:20,680
um, but we don't really want it
to come to that point either. We,
668
00:37:20,860 --> 00:37:24,280
we don't want a atmosphere where
that's happening. Cause as I've said,
669
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,960
there are plenty of other forums that
you can join where this is the norm.
670
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,560
I actually do want to talk
here about one in particular.
671
00:37:30,700 --> 00:37:34,200
So when we had Shane Morris on
to talk about wheel of time, uh,
672
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,200
I mentioned how there is a, uh,
673
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,520
the official forum for a wheel of
time on Reddit or the, the sub Reddit,
674
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,120
I guess I should say. Uh,
675
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:47,040
they do not really allow or
encourage any criticism of
676
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,960
wheel of time. It's a subreddit run
as far as I can tell by the actual
677
00:37:52,590 --> 00:37:55,320
show, uh, the, the Amazon
show for wheel of time.
678
00:37:55,420 --> 00:37:58,040
Now there are some other subreddits
that are just about the books,
679
00:37:58,740 --> 00:38:03,000
but the one that's about the show had a
ton of people show up and criticize it
680
00:38:03,180 --> 00:38:07,120
and rightly so for any
number of things. Um,
681
00:38:07,300 --> 00:38:10,680
and all of those people were little
by little removed from there.
682
00:38:10,740 --> 00:38:11,600
So they got together,
683
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,440
created a subreddit called the white
cloaks which if you read the book
684
00:38:15,460 --> 00:38:19,760
is kind of ironic and I'm not
gonna go on all that. But, uh,
685
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,920
the latest thing I've learned is that
that subreddit has now been locked down by
686
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,840
the admins of Reddit.
687
00:38:26,100 --> 00:38:26,933
Oh, wow. Um.
688
00:38:27,310 --> 00:38:28,760
Yeah. So there was, uh,
689
00:38:29,070 --> 00:38:33,430
some kind of conflict between the mods
of that subreddit and the kind of the
690
00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:37,200
overall admins that are, you
know, employed by Reddit.
691
00:38:37,630 --> 00:38:41,360
What the admins did was
basically flag every post.
692
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,120
That's not by a mod is spam.
693
00:38:43,740 --> 00:38:47,850
And so a mod would have to
approve each post manually,
694
00:38:47,850 --> 00:38:50,170
but the mods are still allowed to post
and people are allowed to comment,
695
00:38:50,190 --> 00:38:51,130
but there's only three of them.
696
00:38:51,590 --> 00:38:55,370
And there were thousands of people
in that sub in the last I checked.
697
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:59,410
So the traffic there
has, is ground to a halt.
698
00:38:59,410 --> 00:39:01,810
And I imagine that was
the whole point of this.
699
00:39:01,810 --> 00:39:06,550
That it's cause what Reddit has
done is just totally kicked off
700
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,310
subreddits and, and users
completely from Reddit.
701
00:39:09,850 --> 00:39:12,210
And that's gotten them a lot of blowbacks.
702
00:39:12,210 --> 00:39:17,150
So now I think this is the new tactic to
sort of bleed a subreddit dry that they
703
00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:21,310
don't like the admins weren't entirely
wrong about some of the problems in that
704
00:39:21,310 --> 00:39:24,910
subreddit, Reddit doesn't
disallow, profanity or vulgarity,
705
00:39:24,910 --> 00:39:26,670
but they do disallow harassment.
706
00:39:27,370 --> 00:39:31,710
And there do seem to be some cases where
there was harassment or brig of other
707
00:39:32,770 --> 00:39:34,430
forums. But at the same time,
708
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,310
there were much harsher rules and
enforcement applied to this subreddit.
709
00:39:39,330 --> 00:39:43,270
And so the internet is not at
the equal opportunity place.
710
00:39:43,270 --> 00:39:45,510
We all thought it would
be in the nineties. I,
711
00:39:45,590 --> 00:39:49,350
I remember when it was fun and when it
was cool and it's become something else
712
00:39:49,350 --> 00:39:52,710
that's being taken over by
mega corpse and whatnot,
713
00:39:53,740 --> 00:39:56,800
but critique of shows
is, is totally allowed,
714
00:39:56,980 --> 00:40:00,360
but we don't allow harassment of people.
Those are entirely different things.
715
00:40:00,420 --> 00:40:02,320
And, and that extends also to the,
716
00:40:02,380 --> 00:40:06,600
the creators and the actors and whatever
the other people involved in the
717
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:07,180
creative process.
718
00:40:07,180 --> 00:40:11,800
Now we're mostly talking about
Christian books so the,
719
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,960
the feelings are much, uh, you know, the
temperature is already a lot lower. I,
720
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,200
I think on the books that we
mostly talk about, but you know,
721
00:40:19,340 --> 00:40:22,280
we have a middle earth
forum. We have another, uh,
722
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,920
we have another channel about
your current reads and you know,
723
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,380
we're gonna be talking about other,
uh, intellectual property out there.
724
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,620
So hopefully this can become a template
like what we're doing in the Guild.
725
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,980
We hope that this can
become a template for you.
726
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,660
Our listener to create a local
community, a book club, a watch party,
727
00:40:41,260 --> 00:40:43,060
a board game group, whatever we,
728
00:40:43,060 --> 00:40:46,980
we hope that this can help you kind
of apply these principles to other
729
00:40:46,980 --> 00:40:48,060
communities you might be in.
730
00:40:48,890 --> 00:40:50,380
Yeah. This here to me,
731
00:40:50,410 --> 00:40:54,340
Zach seems to be a fence around offense
around offense where we say members must
732
00:40:54,340 --> 00:40:58,700
avoid sexualized comments about characters
or actual harassment of real people.
733
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,420
Are those the same thing kind of, uh,
734
00:41:01,420 --> 00:41:04,220
because if you're going to act
that way towards a character,
735
00:41:04,330 --> 00:41:07,220
then you're probably also going to
act that way towards a real person.
736
00:41:07,350 --> 00:41:11,540
Who's your neighbor in the forum or
the creative group, because to you,
737
00:41:11,540 --> 00:41:13,820
they're a character, just the
same as a character in a book.
738
00:41:13,820 --> 00:41:17,620
They're not real person. You can just
make anything, uh, you want up about them.
739
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,500
Uh, that's not correct. That's not a
good posture for a Christian to have,
740
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,420
or a member of a Christian group to have.
741
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,580
So that's why we grouped those
together. We did, however, uh,
742
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,780
put in a kind of a disclaimer there,
this does not refer to disagreements.
743
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:32,060
We said because right.
744
00:41:32,580 --> 00:41:36,200
Although it's less of a risk in some
internet communities or creative groups
745
00:41:36,270 --> 00:41:40,040
than actual harassment, uh, you will
get people, uh, who will say, well,
746
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,520
that person is harassing me. Okay.
Well, what was the harassment?
747
00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:45,840
They disagreed with me. They
want to erase me. Like, I mean,
748
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,880
that's the kind of thing. Like I
said, offense around fence. We,
749
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,480
we don't even wanna get anywhere
near that level of conflict, uh,
750
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,280
in a community like the
Guild. Uh, but it does happen.
751
00:41:54,460 --> 00:41:57,440
So we have that language in there,
you know, just in case, I mean,
752
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,200
who knows whether this thing will
outlive us all or whether, you know,
753
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,800
we'll pass to another
creative team at some point,
754
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:07,480
I want that precedent in there,
uh, if at all possible. Uh, but we,
755
00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:12,320
we want to ultimately define
harassment by the leadership of the
756
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,840
Guild, which will be exclusively
biblical Christian leadership. Uh,
757
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,480
harassment does not get to
be defined by the person,
758
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,640
although very likely in the
Guild, if, uh, someone, uh,
759
00:42:22,700 --> 00:42:26,080
if you feel like you're being
harassed, uh, you probably are. I mean,
760
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,160
that's the kind of person we want to
attract the kind of person who is not
761
00:42:29,670 --> 00:42:31,560
disputative in that way. Uh,
762
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,840
it feels to me it's a lot easier to join
a subreddit or Reddit or whatever you
763
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,720
call them over there, uh, than it
would be easy to join the Guild.
764
00:42:38,860 --> 00:42:43,120
It is free to subscribe, uh, but you do
have to jump through a portal or two,
765
00:42:43,220 --> 00:42:47,120
uh, which itself, uh, brings
a, a sense of exclusivity, uh,
766
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,520
that we really wanna preserve. You
know, it's not a, a gated community,
767
00:42:50,620 --> 00:42:54,040
you know, where you have to have a
particular income level or else you can't,
768
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,960
uh, rent this condo. Uh,
but there is a gate, uh,
769
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,040
there is a gate and hopefully it's a
little bit more narrow than you would
770
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,120
usually get with another,
uh, creative group out there.
771
00:43:03,550 --> 00:43:06,280
Yeah. Cause again, back to
that white cloaks group,
772
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,920
I like that there was open discussion
about the show. I didn't like that. It,
773
00:43:10,990 --> 00:43:15,960
that became very vulgar profane in, in
lots of other things. And so, you know,
774
00:43:15,990 --> 00:43:17,200
that wasn't a great community,
775
00:43:17,340 --> 00:43:21,320
but I also don't like that it
was shut down anyway. We're,
776
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:22,800
we're trying to avoid again, all that,
777
00:43:22,940 --> 00:43:25,600
the dumpster fire of
Reddit here in the Guild.
778
00:43:26,070 --> 00:43:29,280
Yeah. And for more on that, you,
you can go to our episode 122,
779
00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:32,440
why are more fans turning against
their favorite franchises? Uh,
780
00:43:32,540 --> 00:43:36,560
try to explore some of the, some of
the, uh, the, the angry heart, uh,
781
00:43:36,580 --> 00:43:40,320
the grieving heart that can lead
to that type of anger in, uh,
782
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,800
fan communities about shows like that. Uh,
783
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,720
there may be a time to grieve
and work through the, of grief,
784
00:43:45,820 --> 00:43:50,040
but don't smother over your grief
with anger, uh, get over it, move on.
785
00:43:50,250 --> 00:43:52,400
There are probably better
stories out there that, uh,
786
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,480
won't make you so angry
and grieving about them.
787
00:43:55,580 --> 00:43:58,280
So speaking of some
political controversies, uh,
788
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:03,040
this next tenet of the code of honor
also required a lot of input, uh, from,
789
00:44:03,140 --> 00:44:05,680
uh, the creative team at Laura Haven. Uh,
790
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:09,480
some political topics after all
people won't make call them political,
791
00:44:09,660 --> 00:44:13,160
but they're not really political.
They actually do relate, uh,
792
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,000
to how we worked out our Christian faith.
793
00:44:15,260 --> 00:44:17,520
And they relate to some of the
books that we'll be enjoying.
794
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:22,120
So we don't wanna just say no politics.
You can stop talking about politics.
795
00:44:22,340 --> 00:44:25,080
That's bad. We don't wanna say
that. But at the same time,
796
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:30,080
we do want to specify particular things
to leave out of Guild discussions,
797
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:34,720
take them to your comment
section somewhere or your
water cooler at work. Uh,
798
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:39,000
but not at the Guild. Here's what it
says. Four beware of political issues,
799
00:44:39,630 --> 00:44:44,520
some books and their quests may
naturally explore moral issues
800
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,560
that relate to political conflicts.
801
00:44:46,980 --> 00:44:51,640
We encourage gracious discussion of
these ideas and themes as specifically
802
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:52,840
related to the books,
803
00:44:53,580 --> 00:44:58,080
but members must avoid active discussion
of specific political leaders,
804
00:44:58,350 --> 00:45:00,400
parties, or public policy.
805
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,910
Those last three items there
I think are important. Uh,
806
00:45:04,910 --> 00:45:09,110
we don't want political
leaders or candidates being
name checked on the forum.
807
00:45:09,450 --> 00:45:13,470
We don't want any want anybody, uh,
trying to start a discussion about, Hey,
808
00:45:13,470 --> 00:45:18,350
it was so and so, uh, proposition here
in my state, uh, anybody else, uh,
809
00:45:18,350 --> 00:45:22,270
from the state of Iowa, you know, who
you gonna vote for in the primaries in,
810
00:45:22,270 --> 00:45:25,070
uh, 20, 23 or 2024? Uh,
811
00:45:25,130 --> 00:45:28,830
any of that stuff is just going to get
absolutely shut down and no one's tried
812
00:45:28,830 --> 00:45:31,990
it, uh, because the types of books we
attract, uh, seem to understand this.
813
00:45:32,410 --> 00:45:35,870
We don't wanna talk about parties and
we don't wanna talk about specific, uh,
814
00:45:35,870 --> 00:45:38,630
bills, uh, public policies,
rules, laws, all that stuff.
815
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:41,870
There's a place for that. Not
evil. Christians gotta do it,
816
00:45:42,010 --> 00:45:43,590
but you don't gotta do it here,
817
00:45:44,170 --> 00:45:48,670
but we have had some discussion,
uh, about for example,
818
00:45:49,090 --> 00:45:53,790
um, pro-life ethics like that will
figure into discussions of the books, uh,
819
00:45:53,790 --> 00:45:55,550
that we're talking about. Uh,
820
00:45:55,550 --> 00:45:58,790
that's going to come up at least
in an illusion here or there,
821
00:45:58,790 --> 00:46:02,550
and you can bet we, we kept a bit of
a sharp eye on those just in case,
822
00:46:02,690 --> 00:46:04,670
cuz we didn't want it to, uh,
823
00:46:04,810 --> 00:46:09,310
get out of control or spiral off
from the more fiction centered
824
00:46:09,310 --> 00:46:14,230
discussions. But it, it didn't last
too long. Uh, and as the election year,
825
00:46:14,230 --> 00:46:18,030
at least the United States is drawing
closer or the election season really it's
826
00:46:18,030 --> 00:46:21,870
a midterms here, uh, as we
record this, but in 2024,
827
00:46:21,870 --> 00:46:25,390
things are gonna get even more
heated. So we will see how well, uh,
828
00:46:25,390 --> 00:46:27,950
ten four here, the code
of honor holds up. Uh,
829
00:46:28,310 --> 00:46:32,350
I definitely want to keep
that one, uh, intact, uh,
830
00:46:32,350 --> 00:46:36,550
but if we need to address, uh, particular
instances, uh, we certainly will, uh,
831
00:46:36,550 --> 00:46:39,830
as a leadership team and Zach, uh,
actually come to think of it, duh,
832
00:46:39,830 --> 00:46:42,070
this is the part where I
talk about, uh, that, uh,
833
00:46:42,070 --> 00:46:44,270
particular prime debate
that's coming up, uh,
834
00:46:44,270 --> 00:46:47,110
because we have had some discussion
about whether or not people are going to
835
00:46:47,110 --> 00:46:50,790
watch that show, uh,
which is not again, not,
836
00:46:51,070 --> 00:46:54,750
I would say the fans' fault that
it's gotten politically charged, uh,
837
00:46:54,750 --> 00:46:56,950
because regardless of what
the cast members looked like,
838
00:46:57,590 --> 00:47:01,830
a lot of the early marketing, at least
for the show led with, uh, all of the,
839
00:47:01,970 --> 00:47:05,750
uh, diversity language and more
political type language, uh,
840
00:47:05,750 --> 00:47:09,230
that is at least associated
with political agendas.
841
00:47:09,370 --> 00:47:12,470
And that was just a
weird marketing decision.
842
00:47:12,650 --> 00:47:17,550
And unfortunately it's left many
fans with a very bad taste about this
843
00:47:17,550 --> 00:47:21,430
particular show. Uh, how are we going
to talk about it on the Guild? Um,
844
00:47:21,790 --> 00:47:22,870
I don't know, uh,
845
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:26,110
we may need to put in some guidelines
in the middle earth channel.
846
00:47:26,110 --> 00:47:30,440
Haven't had a chance to do that yet, but
it's, it's, it's a test case again, uh,
847
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,320
that we may be keeping an eye on, cuz
we don't wanna say don't talk about it.
848
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:34,360
It's a bad show. You know,
849
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,640
like someone may watch the show completely
free of the stigma attached by the
850
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,560
super Van's Amazon video or anything
like that. Oops. I said the,
851
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:46,200
a word there , that's
fine. You may still enjoy it.
852
00:47:46,260 --> 00:47:49,960
You may not have ever read token or
his materials about the second age.
853
00:47:50,020 --> 00:47:53,920
You know, it may be fan fiction and
you're perfectly fine with that. Uh,
854
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:55,640
it may not be an evil show.
855
00:47:55,700 --> 00:47:58,560
It may not have a political
agenda in the show itself,
856
00:47:58,590 --> 00:48:03,320
just in the marketing who knows in
that case, God bless you enjoy it. Uh,
857
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:08,000
the rest of us just may not enjoy it as
much because we've seen too much. Uh,
858
00:48:08,250 --> 00:48:10,680
we'll be keeping an eye.
We'll be keeping an eye on it.
859
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:14,000
Yeah. I, I think from now on now that
you've let the cat outta the bag,
860
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,880
I think I'm just gonna refer to this
new show as Jeff Bezos's fan fiction.
861
00:48:18,110 --> 00:48:20,400
That that's just the only
way to cover it. Well, I've.
862
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,600
Seen a few less flattering labels
used to, to describe the title. Yeah.
863
00:48:24,820 --> 00:48:26,800
But yeah, Steven, I, you
make a good point there too.
864
00:48:27,450 --> 00:48:29,560
We're not gonna try to
be party poopers either,
865
00:48:29,820 --> 00:48:33,480
so you're fine to enjoy the
show. That's totally fine. And,
866
00:48:34,020 --> 00:48:38,000
and people can have different reactions
to the angle that Amazon is taking.
867
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,520
I think, um, Amazon made
a very clear decision of,
868
00:48:41,630 --> 00:48:46,200
they want to capture the cultural
zeitgeist and make this for a totally
869
00:48:46,460 --> 00:48:50,760
new set of concerns that people have.
That was their primary audience.
870
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,640
That was their primary agenda. Um,
we'll see how that works out for them,
871
00:48:55,220 --> 00:48:55,840
but you know,
872
00:48:55,840 --> 00:49:00,280
I wanna actually go from
there to something else
that's often said about sci-fi
873
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,800
fantasy kind of in the larger
world, which is, uh, well,
874
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,640
science fiction has always been
political or, or how about this one?
875
00:49:07,900 --> 00:49:11,800
The personal is political and I just,
876
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:16,360
I stand completely opposed to these
mindsets because that's a totalitarian
877
00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:20,680
impulse that politics should
invade every aspect of your life.
878
00:49:21,100 --> 00:49:24,490
Everything in your life should be
repurposed to survey political cause.
879
00:49:24,790 --> 00:49:27,370
And we just totally reject
that here at law Haven life,
880
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,170
life is so much bigger than who you're
voting for or what parties in power,
881
00:49:31,240 --> 00:49:36,170
what policies are happening because
the church has survived 2000 years of
882
00:49:36,190 --> 00:49:41,090
all kinds of governments and, and foolish
leaders and foolish policies. And,
883
00:49:41,110 --> 00:49:45,090
and so have books books have been around
and will be around much longer than,
884
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:46,970
than people who are doing silly things.
885
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:52,370
It's fine to talk about moral issues
because those supersede and outlast the
886
00:49:52,370 --> 00:49:56,120
political realities. But at
the end of the day, you know,
887
00:49:56,130 --> 00:50:01,040
don't confuse an ideology for
your identity. Uh, don't take on,
888
00:50:01,850 --> 00:50:05,030
you know, one of these,
um, uh, slogans or,
889
00:50:05,050 --> 00:50:09,630
or mindsets as who you are. And
then when people disagree with that,
890
00:50:10,050 --> 00:50:13,190
you feel personally attacked.
That's not right either. And again,
891
00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:16,310
that's that totalitarian impulse
that keeps getting pushed on us.
892
00:50:17,260 --> 00:50:21,080
So we're gonna talk about some
issues that come up, but yeah,
893
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,400
we just gotta be careful with the
really hot button ones, you know, and,
894
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,760
and follow everything that we've
already talked about up till.
895
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,240
This point. Exactly. I
heartedly agree with that. Uh,
896
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:35,000
ultimately it is super political in what
we're trying to accomplish here, uh,
897
00:50:35,020 --> 00:50:38,000
in the, in the Laura Haven Guild,
uh, these are moral issues,
898
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:42,440
issues of imagination and personhood
that are foundational to the political
899
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,600
controversies that we have in other parts
of the world. You've gotta have those.
900
00:50:46,620 --> 00:50:50,240
You absolutely must. Yeah. Those
fine to have that culture stories,
901
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:53,280
imagination informs
those issues. So, right.
902
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,520
Why would you jump to the
shallow end of the pool? Uh,
903
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,760
hopefully we're trying to go a
little bit deeper into the, uh,
904
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,960
human psyche by way of
fantastical imagination.
905
00:51:01,630 --> 00:51:03,780
Let's move to chapter
three here in a moment. Uh,
906
00:51:03,780 --> 00:51:06,740
this ordinarily would be the
place for a third sponsor. Uh,
907
00:51:06,740 --> 00:51:10,740
we've left that spot empty, but just
so you know, faithful listener, uh,
908
00:51:10,740 --> 00:51:13,380
we will be having from here
on out, uh, three sponsors,
909
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:18,260
one per chapter of each of our podcast
episodes. So going forward, who knows,
910
00:51:18,350 --> 00:51:21,740
maybe you could be in this
spot two faithful listener,
911
00:51:21,970 --> 00:51:26,620
chapter three is called what positive
themes do we promote in the lower Haven
912
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:28,580
Guild? So we're gonna wrap up with, uh,
913
00:51:28,580 --> 00:51:30,780
the three last tenets of
the code of honor here.
914
00:51:31,090 --> 00:51:34,300
This is where it gets a little bit more
fun. Uh, we did the, uh, heavier stuff,
915
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:35,820
uh, just in the last, uh, chapter.
916
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:40,780
And this is where we really wanted to end
with more positive endorsement of what
917
00:51:40,780 --> 00:51:43,900
we're hoping to accomplish in any
of our book quests and other story
918
00:51:43,900 --> 00:51:45,260
explorations in the Guild.
919
00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:50,460
Number five here makes clear our
goal to focus on fans of fiction,
920
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,100
not the writing of fiction,
921
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:57,140
simply because of our focus at
Laura Haven five celebrate fandom.
922
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:01,420
Our quest is to explore Christian
made fantastical stories. As readers,
923
00:52:01,940 --> 00:52:05,980
aspiring writers can find many other
communities about creative work in the
924
00:52:05,980 --> 00:52:10,540
Guild. We will keep all our quests
focused on delighted discerning fans.
925
00:52:11,050 --> 00:52:14,740
Fantastic authors need the
wisdom of Proverbs 27 2,
926
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,340
let another praise you
and not your own mouth,
927
00:52:17,700 --> 00:52:20,220
a stranger and not your own lips.
928
00:52:21,010 --> 00:52:25,860
This one in retrospect is
fascinating to me because I'm,
929
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:26,980
I'm looking at that now.
930
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,420
And to the extent that I had input
into the language here, I'm thinking,
931
00:52:30,450 --> 00:52:31,940
what was I thinking about that?
932
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,860
And I was probably thinking
about writers groups,
933
00:52:35,310 --> 00:52:38,020
where the writers who
are very enthusiastic,
934
00:52:38,020 --> 00:52:40,540
especially if you're a Christian and
have had trouble finding a writing
935
00:52:40,540 --> 00:52:41,940
community. Uh, you,
936
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:46,620
you find one that seems to be talking
about books and in the imagination books
937
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:51,540
equals writing sometimes. Well, not
necessarily. Uh, there is a difference,
938
00:52:51,540 --> 00:52:55,580
like even good writers, I think, uh,
professionals, uh, know to keep the shop,
939
00:52:55,610 --> 00:52:56,700
talk to the shop.
940
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,740
And then if they're out at a library
event or something you don't assume that
941
00:52:59,740 --> 00:53:03,380
everybody lining up to have, uh, their
book signed by you, uh, is also a writer.
942
00:53:03,490 --> 00:53:07,220
There's going to be a difference in your
emphasis there. And Laura Haven is, uh,
943
00:53:07,490 --> 00:53:11,580
near exclusively fan focused here to
the extent that we talk about, uh,
944
00:53:11,580 --> 00:53:13,780
authors and shop talk
and all that stuff, uh,
945
00:53:13,780 --> 00:53:18,220
we try to keep it very basic and very
much emphasizing behind the scenes. Uh,
946
00:53:18,220 --> 00:53:23,220
kind of my example, there is the, uh,
behind the scenes, uh, materials on, uh,
947
00:53:23,460 --> 00:53:27,920
I guess one of the discs, uh, for
a movie like the Lord of the rings.
948
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,440
For example, the film trilogy has some
of the best behind the scenes material.
949
00:53:31,700 --> 00:53:35,280
And when they're taking you into the
workshop to show the CA troll the cats and
950
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,200
the chain mail that they're
putting together by hand,
951
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:41,880
and all of that at Witta led by to that's
a bad New Zealand accent, of course,
952
00:53:42,190 --> 00:53:45,240
they're not giving you
instructions for how to do it.
953
00:53:45,310 --> 00:53:48,840
They're not assuming that
everybody watching is a
craftsperson who wants to get
954
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:49,720
into that industry.
955
00:53:49,790 --> 00:53:53,160
They're assuming that everybody who's
watching is a fan of the Lord of the rings
956
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,360
and wants to know how they made the
movie magic down in New Zealand.
957
00:53:56,780 --> 00:53:58,840
So they will go into detail
and they will show you,
958
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,440
and they aren't seeming to
try to hide their secrets,
959
00:54:01,780 --> 00:54:04,600
but they are keeping it more
general. They are more keeping,
960
00:54:04,670 --> 00:54:07,880
they're keeping it more focused on
the fans. So that's what we wanna do.
961
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,640
If we talk about, like, for example,
our saga coming up next month,
962
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,200
Zach will give a little spoiler
here, faithful listener. Uh,
963
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,560
we're gonna go behind the scenes a little
bit more talk about how these books,
964
00:54:16,580 --> 00:54:19,120
how these audio books get made, uh,
965
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:21,120
introduce you to some of
the people behind those,
966
00:54:21,420 --> 00:54:23,920
but it's not going to be a how to guide.
967
00:54:23,950 --> 00:54:27,880
It's not going to be instructional or
professional development type stuff. Uh,
968
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,040
I think that would be unfair
and unnecessary. Anyway, Zach,
969
00:54:31,100 --> 00:54:33,440
if we were trying to step on
the real maker's territory,
970
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:37,760
like real makers and other Christian
groups are introducing people to that
971
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,760
network of creators, you know, the
more, uh, industry side of things,
972
00:54:41,860 --> 00:54:43,800
the more professional
development side of things.
973
00:54:43,900 --> 00:54:46,760
If you come into the Laurie Haven Guild
saying, Hey, I wanna talk about my book.
974
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,840
I wanna get somebody to read
my book. Let's get some, uh,
975
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,360
let's get some beta readers going.
Let's get a critique group started.
976
00:54:51,900 --> 00:54:55,000
If you do that, we're
gonna say, mm, no. Uh,
977
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:59,040
look at number five here of the
of the code of honor, uh,
978
00:54:59,060 --> 00:55:03,480
and go find real makers, go find another
group. Uh, that's already doing that.
979
00:55:03,820 --> 00:55:06,760
Uh, they're not doing book quests
and we're not doing, uh, writer,
980
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:08,760
critique groups, and we're
not talking about that stuff.
981
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:10,280
We're going to focus on the fans.
982
00:55:10,710 --> 00:55:13,000
Yeah. And even better go
start a local writers group.
983
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,040
I think so much of this is just better
handled in person with people that you
984
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,480
get to know, and that's what I've done.
985
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:23,260
And that's what I've really
enjoyed others doing. But yes,
986
00:55:23,290 --> 00:55:27,900
this is a place to primarily be
on the same footing that we're all
987
00:55:27,900 --> 00:55:31,860
readers here and it, and
realistically, if you're a writer,
988
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,460
that's not reading books, uh,
989
00:55:33,460 --> 00:55:37,140
you probably shouldn't be writing books
until you go read a bunch of books. Uh,
990
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,140
the, the most successful authors
are huge readers, huge book worms.
991
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,740
So that's gotta come first,
no matter what, but yes,
992
00:55:44,740 --> 00:55:49,380
we don't wanna make this a two tiered
society within the Guild that there's the,
993
00:55:49,890 --> 00:55:53,140
there's the people who are the
cherished and celebrated writers.
994
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:57,140
And then there's all the other, you
know, peasants with their chickens.
995
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:01,300
And so , uh, we wanna make
this, uh, where everyone's on the,
996
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:02,273
the same ground.
997
00:56:02,450 --> 00:56:03,420
Yeah. And there will,
998
00:56:03,420 --> 00:56:08,180
of course be many heroes of the Guild
who are authors or who are aspiring
999
00:56:08,210 --> 00:56:12,060
authors. And we definitely welcome them
because I think that statistically,
1000
00:56:12,060 --> 00:56:14,340
Zach, like, I haven't seen
any surveys about this,
1001
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:19,460
but it seems to me that folks who enjoy
fantasy and science fiction and those
1002
00:56:19,460 --> 00:56:23,360
kinds of stories are more likely
to try to write fan fiction,
1003
00:56:23,510 --> 00:56:26,800
just something in your personality
or the fact that these, uh,
1004
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:31,080
these genres have this kind of
personality among their fans. Uh,
1005
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,120
that's gonna lead you to be more likely
to try to write the stuff, you know,
1006
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,480
whereas I, I don't think that
the same principal applies. Uh,
1007
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,680
if you are someone who's, uh, a little
bit of an older reader, you know,
1008
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:43,360
maybe retired a local church
member who enjoys, uh,
1009
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:45,360
reading Christian Prairie romances.
1010
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:49,440
It's probably less a chance that you're
trying to write your own Prairie romance
1011
00:56:49,580 --> 00:56:53,200
and break into the Prairie
romance industry. Uh, I'm
not sure how that's going,
1012
00:56:53,260 --> 00:56:53,840
but it's,
1013
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:58,040
it's not something that I've picked up
on as I have among the fantasy of folks.
1014
00:56:58,180 --> 00:57:01,800
So that makes sense. Uh, again, it's
simply a matter, not a morality,
1015
00:57:02,020 --> 00:57:06,200
but simply of focus. Uh, there
exist groups for writing, uh,
1016
00:57:06,230 --> 00:57:07,920
take the writing questions over there.
1017
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,560
Just like you would take the
political questions over there. Yes.
1018
00:57:10,590 --> 00:57:13,320
It's gotta get done. Uh, we
want those stories written.
1019
00:57:13,380 --> 00:57:16,720
We want them to get better. We want
them published if they're great. Uh,
1020
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,680
just not in the guilt everybody's you
said Zach is, is on a level playing field,
1021
00:57:20,740 --> 00:57:24,800
you know, published authors and
aspiring authors and simply fans alike.
1022
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:29,080
And so far we found great
success in focusing on that,
1023
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,400
which also by the way, rules out a lot
of those, uh, potentially heated, uh,
1024
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:36,720
debate topics about publishing rules
and whether or not Christians can write
1025
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,760
about such and such and magic
systems and things like that. Uh,
1026
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,400
a lot of those just get taken off the
table simply by focusing on fans first.
1027
00:57:43,830 --> 00:57:46,920
Yeah. And those, those discussions
do need to be had just like we said,
1028
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,800
the political discussions need
to be had. It's just not here.
1029
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:51,160
That's not what this is for.
1030
00:57:51,860 --> 00:57:52,440
So from there,
1031
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,680
continuing the positive emphasis will
go to number six of the code of honor.
1032
00:57:56,910 --> 00:58:00,640
This next is not a rule, but more like
a suggestion, really a suggestion, uh,
1033
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:02,560
because we want to promote
this kind of spirit,
1034
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:06,160
whether or not somebody actually wants
to do that and come to think of it. I, I,
1035
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:08,240
haven't done a whole lot of
it myself. I'm my comments,
1036
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,640
usually more straightforward than
this, but if you want to number six,
1037
00:58:11,730 --> 00:58:14,320
enjoy your creative
gifts. We don't require,
1038
00:58:14,380 --> 00:58:18,720
but we do encourage Guild members
inquests to engage in virtual cosplay,
1039
00:58:19,220 --> 00:58:22,800
try taking personas of gall Knights,
brave adventures, ship, captains,
1040
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,640
monster hunters, or whatever suits
you're, God-given imaginative,
1041
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:29,440
fancy quest guides will lead in
this imaginative world building.
1042
00:58:29,540 --> 00:58:34,400
If that's not how you create no pressure
stay as normal as you like either way,
1043
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:36,960
whether or not we engage
in virtual cosplay.
1044
00:58:36,980 --> 00:58:41,200
We are all fans of fantastic
stories. Zach, my inspiration there,
1045
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:44,240
I will attribute the,
uh, NAIA web forum, uh,
1046
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,720
where I was a member
for quite some time, uh,
1047
00:58:46,740 --> 00:58:51,080
before and after the release of the
lion witch in wardrobe film in 2005,
1048
00:58:51,580 --> 00:58:54,720
uh, actually got to be a moderator
there. And as we said on NA web,
1049
00:58:54,830 --> 00:58:58,560
once a modern, modest on NA web,
always a modern, modest on nay web.
1050
00:58:58,620 --> 00:58:59,720
So I guess could,
1051
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:03,400
I could always come back like king
Edmond if I wanted to mm-hmm, uh,
1052
00:59:03,450 --> 00:59:05,840
Laura Haven and everything
else, it keeps me pretty busy,
1053
00:59:06,300 --> 00:59:11,240
but there was a lot of this
kind of light fend fiction.
1054
00:59:11,310 --> 00:59:16,040
Like people would change their user
names or they would put a title, uh,
1055
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:17,440
in their username there on the forum.
1056
00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:20,480
Kind of more like the fun days of the
internet that you're always talking about
1057
00:59:20,510 --> 00:59:24,720
Zach back when the internet was good.
Yeah. Uh, people would, for example,
1058
00:59:25,150 --> 00:59:30,120
join a thread that I started on a whim,
uh, where I started what I called, uh,
1059
00:59:30,220 --> 00:59:34,720
the holy order of the spoiler free
monastery in which I said that anybody who
1060
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:39,240
wanted to, uh, could enter these
August holes and walls, uh,
1061
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:44,040
and take a vow of avoiding
spoilers. So no roast on,
1062
00:59:44,060 --> 00:59:46,880
you know, monks or, you know,
Catholicism or anything like that,
1063
00:59:46,910 --> 00:59:49,760
just having a good bit
of clean fun there. Uh,
1064
00:59:49,780 --> 00:59:51,400
and it proved surprisingly popular.
1065
00:59:51,580 --> 00:59:54,960
It was the first time I think I'd
ever gone viral on a forum. Uh,
1066
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:59,040
lots of people flock into the virtual
monastery. Uh, they took their vows,
1067
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:02,560
they added their unique spins
to them. Uh, they took up, uh,
1068
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,760
roles in monastic service, you know,
1069
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:09,120
whether or not they were going to clean
the chandelier or scrub the floors or
1070
01:00:09,230 --> 01:00:13,600
take care of the rituals in particular,
uh, mystical beverages and foods,
1071
01:00:13,700 --> 01:00:15,080
you know, it got really fun.
1072
01:00:15,220 --> 01:00:18,280
And ultimately I think I ended up being
the most high Reverend father of the
1073
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:21,960
holy order of the spoiler free
monastery, a title that I also, uh,
1074
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:23,080
preserve to this day.
1075
01:00:23,220 --> 01:00:26,680
So if we ever need a spoiler free
monastery for something else, uh,
1076
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:29,600
I may just open one up, uh, in
the Lord Haven Guild this time.
1077
01:00:29,860 --> 01:00:32,040
That's the kind of spirit
I'm I'm thinking of. And I,
1078
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,960
I don't know if we've seen a whole
lot of that now. Uh, it may require,
1079
01:00:36,020 --> 01:00:38,640
you know, some tweaking
of the discord server, uh,
1080
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:40,520
to enable more of that kind of thing,
1081
01:00:40,820 --> 01:00:43,240
but it is something that we
definitely wanna keep an eye toward.
1082
01:00:43,300 --> 01:00:46,360
And I think it's a way to redirect some
of the creative energies of the author
1083
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:50,600
types to, you know, Hey, we, we respect
the creativity that God has given you,
1084
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,600
you know, let's turn that in
service to the fandom. Uh,
1085
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,520
even if you're not talking about
the, your exact book or, you know,
1086
01:00:56,520 --> 01:01:00,680
giving critiques of other people's books,
like we are all creatives here, uh,
1087
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,520
creative, the noun, uh, as, uh,
Andrew Peterson says in his book,
1088
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:05,320
adorning the dark.
1089
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:09,720
There's not a difference between
creatives and non-creative because God has
1090
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,200
given his gift of
imagination to everyone. Uh,
1091
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:14,560
this is an option for
Gil heroes to have, uh,
1092
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:16,360
while we are exploring the book quests.
1093
01:01:16,660 --> 01:01:18,040
You know, Steven you're exactly right,
1094
01:01:18,110 --> 01:01:21,880
that this rule number six really
helps with rule number five,
1095
01:01:22,270 --> 01:01:24,120
because if you come to the Guild and,
1096
01:01:24,140 --> 01:01:28,000
and you wanna sort of play per
pretend for lack of a better term, uh,
1097
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,640
virtual cost play, as you said, you
know, then that, that makes it more,
1098
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:35,480
you're putting on that persona rather
than I'm here as an author to promote my
1099
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:37,080
book persona, uh,
1100
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:41,120
because that is really the ban of a
lot of Facebook groups I've joined. Uh,
1101
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:45,960
there was one Facebook group I found
a year or two ago, and it was, um,
1102
01:01:46,780 --> 01:01:50,240
you know, it, it was supposedly
a reader's group. Uh,
1103
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:52,600
but I scanned through all the
posts as soon as I joined.
1104
01:01:52,700 --> 01:01:57,040
And they were all authors just
promoting their own books, uh,
1105
01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:59,200
because that's what you're
supposed to use social media for.
1106
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:01,920
You're supposed to just
promote yourself. Uh that's.
1107
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:04,760
Yeah. That's what the gurus
were saying. 15 years ago,
1108
01:02:05,500 --> 01:02:09,360
got a hold of an old dusty social
media author promotion manual. Yeah.
1109
01:02:09,550 --> 01:02:13,800
Blew the dust off of it, shook loose
the cobwebs and decided to give it a go.
1110
01:02:14,410 --> 01:02:16,960
Right. But I mean, that's what
everyone uses social media for.
1111
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:21,760
It's all about building your own
personal brand now to the credit of the
1112
01:02:21,950 --> 01:02:25,240
moderator of that Facebook group.
Um, I reached out and said,
1113
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,640
I thought this was supposed to be a
reader's group. Do y'all have rules about,
1114
01:02:28,900 --> 01:02:33,070
you know, no self-promotion spam. And,
uh, this person said, you know what,
1115
01:02:33,070 --> 01:02:36,390
you're right. I I'm gonna start cracking
down on that. And then they started a,
1116
01:02:36,780 --> 01:02:38,790
like a weekly or a monthly, like, okay,
1117
01:02:38,790 --> 01:02:41,150
here's the thread where you can
put all your self-promotion,
1118
01:02:41,170 --> 01:02:42,430
but that that's it we're,
1119
01:02:42,430 --> 01:02:45,110
we're not gonna allow any other
posts that are self-promotion yeah.
1120
01:02:45,110 --> 01:02:45,850
Work it outta your.
1121
01:02:45,850 --> 01:02:49,950
That's. Yeah. Right, exactly.
Uh, so I, I appreciated that,
1122
01:02:50,050 --> 01:02:54,470
but you know, this is what
always happens with social media.
1123
01:02:54,470 --> 01:02:57,100
People just want to talk about themselves.
1124
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:01,780
And so if that author hat is on that's,
that's how they're gonna talk. But I,
1125
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:05,180
you know, to, to be honest, I'm not
a virtual Coplay kind of person.
1126
01:03:05,490 --> 01:03:08,860
I've never really been into
that sort of thing with forums,
1127
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:13,700
but I appreciate that that is here because
that does take the focus off of the
1128
01:03:13,700 --> 01:03:15,180
other kind of personas that people put.
1129
01:03:15,180 --> 01:03:19,140
On. You know what though, in
honor, of the Hoit book quest,
1130
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:21,100
we have coming up in September,
1131
01:03:21,700 --> 01:03:25,460
I did change my username because discord
does allow this for a particular, uh,
1132
01:03:25,460 --> 01:03:29,260
server. I did change my username
to Stephen of RDE. , uh,
1133
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:32,380
not very creative, you know,
not very Elvin sounding,
1134
01:03:32,380 --> 01:03:34,540
but I still want people to
know that it's me, you know,
1135
01:03:34,540 --> 01:03:37,140
I don't wanna get too far with
the whole username approach,
1136
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:41,140
but there is something to be said, uh,
that least changing your name, you know,
1137
01:03:41,140 --> 01:03:43,060
just a little bit. And we've
done that a few times. Like, I,
1138
01:03:43,100 --> 01:03:46,900
I think I changed my name to kind
of a, a robot looking name, uh,
1139
01:03:46,900 --> 01:03:50,460
when we did the, the book quest through,
uh, Carrie needs' lost bits, uh,
1140
01:03:50,580 --> 01:03:53,780
I think that's just a way
to respect and enjoy, uh,
1141
01:03:53,780 --> 01:03:57,740
the aesthetic of the book that we're
exploring every month. So this time,
1142
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:02,460
you know, especially if, uh, Elijah, David
is leading the book quest, I mean, I,
1143
01:04:02,500 --> 01:04:04,140
I intend on helping out where I can,
1144
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:09,140
but if I get to attend as just a party
guest, uh, rather than a party leader,
1145
01:04:09,690 --> 01:04:12,540
then I might, uh, pick
one of my favorite, uh,
1146
01:04:12,630 --> 01:04:16,260
races of middle earth and try to
hu to that personality. We'll,
1147
01:04:16,260 --> 01:04:17,820
we'll see if I'm able to
follow through with that.
1148
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:19,500
I'm hoping September isn't too busy,
1149
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,780
but I am already reading or listening
to the Hoit and I'm planning to
1150
01:04:23,780 --> 01:04:26,820
participate because it's one of
my favorite books. So, you know,
1151
01:04:26,890 --> 01:04:31,380
this actually has inspired me. Maybe I
need to give a, a code of honor rule six,
1152
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:35,940
uh, a try here and see if anybody
naturally wants to pick up on that. Uh,
1153
01:04:35,940 --> 01:04:39,460
especially because the Hoit is so
famous, uh, and the different groups, uh,
1154
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:43,980
dwarfs elves trolls, well, we don't want
trolls. We certainly do not want, uh,
1155
01:04:43,980 --> 01:04:46,380
those beasts from the mountains
who are going to speak,
1156
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:51,420
not at all in drawing room language,
even if they only have one head each, uh,
1157
01:04:51,420 --> 01:04:52,660
we don't want that in the form.
1158
01:04:52,660 --> 01:04:57,020
So no trolls only pretend to be a wizard
or an L or a dwarf for a Hoit I think
1159
01:04:57,020 --> 01:05:00,100
the, or, or a man for that matter
or woman. Uh, those are the, uh,
1160
01:05:00,300 --> 01:05:03,620
I guess the only five approved,
uh, good guy, uh, races there, uh,
1161
01:05:03,620 --> 01:05:05,860
not including all the divine
creatures in middle earth,
1162
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,980
as you learned about the simil
and the supporting materials.
1163
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:10,300
So let let's see how that works.
1164
01:05:11,190 --> 01:05:14,200
Okay. You've inspired me. I'll
think of a new username, uh,
1165
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:15,240
for this month for the Hoit.
1166
01:05:15,550 --> 01:05:19,280
Okay. Well, there we go. Again, it's a
suggestion, it's a, it's a, not a rule,
1167
01:05:19,510 --> 01:05:21,360
more like guidelines, you know,
1168
01:05:21,580 --> 01:05:25,040
any kind of mix and match here in the
code of honor. Uh, this is simply a way,
1169
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:25,760
like you said, Zack,
1170
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:29,600
to redirect some of those creative
energies to a more fan centric, uh,
1171
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:32,640
perspective. Yeah. All right.
We've arrived now at, uh,
1172
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:34,080
code of honor number seven here.
1173
01:05:34,110 --> 01:05:37,600
This one's pretty simple and it is
more of a catchall and it's very Guild
1174
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,040
specific. So it may not relate as
much to anyone outside the Guild.
1175
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:43,560
We just say seven, keep to the quest road.
1176
01:05:43,940 --> 01:05:47,880
If our quest conversations diverge
too far from the Quest's main journey,
1177
01:05:48,380 --> 01:05:51,080
pursue those smaller trails
elsewhere. For example,
1178
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:54,000
if we end up discussing books
different from the selection,
1179
01:05:54,390 --> 01:05:58,440
move that conversation to another place
or request a future side quest to focus
1180
01:05:58,540 --> 01:06:03,400
on that other book, uh, that just helps
I think, keep the discussions focused,
1181
01:06:03,700 --> 01:06:07,520
uh, especially if you have, uh,
particular channels, uh, that, uh,
1182
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:11,280
have a more broad label there. You
may get some spinoff topics. Like,
1183
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,520
for example, let's say people start
talking about the Lord of the rings, uh,
1184
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:17,640
in the Hobbit. Well, then we
already have a middle earth channel.
1185
01:06:17,740 --> 01:06:21,440
You can take that too, so that we
can focus on the chapter at hand.
1186
01:06:21,700 --> 01:06:23,960
And that's how we do the
book quest, by the way, we,
1187
01:06:24,020 --> 01:06:28,280
we have a single channel or a
single room, uh, in the, uh,
1188
01:06:28,300 --> 01:06:29,440
the Guild hall, uh,
1189
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:34,400
to explore that book and then about every
weekday or so, uh, someone may post,
1190
01:06:34,500 --> 01:06:38,640
uh, a few questions or even one
question, uh, relating to a chapter.
1191
01:06:38,740 --> 01:06:42,880
So we go chapter by chapter. Hopefully
people can keep pace that way, uh,
1192
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:47,000
walk at their own speed on the book
quest. And that's how we try to keep, uh,
1193
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,080
the discussions focused and so
far. Well, again, Lord willing,
1194
01:06:50,100 --> 01:06:52,760
we keep saying that, but so
far it's working pretty well.
1195
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:56,480
I think folks seem to pick up on
that, uh, and then understand, Hey,
1196
01:06:56,490 --> 01:06:58,840
we've got enough space to talk
about other, other things.
1197
01:06:58,940 --> 01:07:01,800
If you wanna talk about another Tokin
book, we've got a middle earth thread,
1198
01:07:02,180 --> 01:07:05,800
or if you wanna talk about wheel of time
and whether or not that's inspired by
1199
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:07,160
Tokin or something, then go to the,
1200
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:10,160
your favorite books channel or
whatever we're calling it. Uh,
1201
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:12,520
we've got enough space for
all of those subtopics,
1202
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,120
and that's just a matter
of keeping things sorted,
1203
01:07:15,220 --> 01:07:19,320
trying to keep things in the proper
place and, uh, make sure to avoid, uh,
1204
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:20,280
too many rabbit trails.
1205
01:07:20,630 --> 01:07:25,560
Yeah. And this goes back to our main
point and main purpose for Laura Haven
1206
01:07:25,700 --> 01:07:30,080
itself, which is to promote
Christian fantastical fiction. Uh,
1207
01:07:30,100 --> 01:07:34,360
we are not simply the Christian
discord server for talking all things,
1208
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:36,600
science fiction and fantasy,
everything out there.
1209
01:07:37,220 --> 01:07:41,680
We are primarily for
Christian novels. And so, um,
1210
01:07:41,900 --> 01:07:46,000
that's always going to be the main quest
and that's going to be the main topics
1211
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:50,560
of discussion. Um, it's not to
dissuade the other things entirely,
1212
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:54,120
but just to kind of, it's a matter
of emphasis or proportionality.
1213
01:07:57,710 --> 01:08:01,720
With that. I think we may be near the end
of this journey, but I'm very curious,
1214
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:05,800
faithful listener. Uh, what
codes of honor have you followed?
1215
01:08:05,860 --> 01:08:09,760
Are they written or unwritten? Uh,
because, uh, even before we started, uh,
1216
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:14,040
Zach was making the point that no matter
where you go with a creative group or a
1217
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:17,720
local church or any community of any
kind, there's gonna be a code of honor,
1218
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:21,200
whether or not it's written, uh,
seems to me that at least, uh,
1219
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:25,000
before you join for a new group, there's
an advantage to having a written code.
1220
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,240
There may be flaws in it. Uh,
there may be some things, uh,
1221
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:32,640
oversaid or left unsaid, but Hey,
at least the organizers are trying.
1222
01:08:33,140 --> 01:08:34,840
And in my experience, it is, uh,
1223
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:39,480
a lot more effective to lay that out
before you even start the group, uh,
1224
01:08:39,480 --> 01:08:43,200
rather than to try to backfill a code
of honor or change one from underneath
1225
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:46,960
people, uh, that can get pretty
controversial. So, Hey, by the way,
1226
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:48,840
just pray for the Lord Haven Guild. Uh,
1227
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:52,680
we definitely want this to be a
community that exalts Christ, uh,
1228
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:55,120
through the exploration
of these stories, uh,
1229
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:58,800
these fantastical novels
by Christian authors, uh,
1230
01:08:58,940 --> 01:09:02,400
no matter how long it goes, uh,
we want that to be its purpose.
1231
01:09:02,580 --> 01:09:05,880
So just pray for the heroes, whether
or not you're one of 'em and, uh,
1232
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:08,480
join us for the Hobbit, uh,
consider joining us, uh,
1233
01:09:08,480 --> 01:09:10,400
simply by subscribing@laurahaven.com.
1234
01:09:10,420 --> 01:09:13,040
We will email you that
exclusive invitation,
1235
01:09:13,540 --> 01:09:18,280
and then you two can go on, on
adventure into the wild. Uh,
1236
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:22,120
from there, Zach, let's go to our com
station and we got a lot of feedback, uh,
1237
01:09:22,330 --> 01:09:26,880
after our last episode with
Kevin McCreary, the one
about the Christian cringe,
1238
01:09:27,380 --> 01:09:30,680
uh, given our length here, I think we
have time for only one or two feedbacks,
1239
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:33,800
but what do we have over here in this,
uh, bleeping blooping control panel?
1240
01:09:34,300 --> 01:09:37,680
So Nicholas Teman
commented on this episode,
1241
01:09:37,820 --> 01:09:41,480
on our Facebook discussion
about it and said, fun fact,
1242
01:09:41,980 --> 01:09:46,960
all high budget Christian cringe is made
by a single individual cringe lore who
1243
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:50,400
gained the power to transcend time
and decency after being bitten by a
1244
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:51,560
radioactive youth, pastor.
1245
01:09:52,670 --> 01:09:55,680
Hank cannon accepted
cannon accepted. Yeah,
1246
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:59,000
most of the feedback for this one
was, uh, was, was really positive.
1247
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,480
A lot of people understood what
we meant by Christian cringe,
1248
01:10:02,480 --> 01:10:07,000
even if they maybe disagreed with any
particular examples, uh, speaking of, uh,
1249
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:09,600
UN unapplied to feedback,
uh, there's at least, uh,
1250
01:10:09,620 --> 01:10:12,320
one faithful listener who
had, uh, responded, uh,
1251
01:10:12,540 --> 01:10:15,520
at least took issue with one example
of Christian cringe that I had.
1252
01:10:15,700 --> 01:10:18,880
It was more a matter of a prayer
practice in a, in a Christian movie.
1253
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,440
I still need to reply
about that one, but I,
1254
01:10:21,480 --> 01:10:24,800
I think basically my reply will point
to our concession stand, where we said,
1255
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:25,280
Hey, you know,
1256
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:29,480
you may disagree with the specific
examples of cringe that we identify.
1257
01:10:30,300 --> 01:10:33,000
And in that case, well,
you know, the cringe,
1258
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:36,440
what we think is cringe may help you,
or it may remind you of somebody,
1259
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:38,160
you know, in real life, who's not cringe.
1260
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:41,400
Like we don't mean to pick on
that person or their beliefs. Uh,
1261
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:44,560
so long as they're within,
uh, biblical orthodoxy, uh,
1262
01:10:44,590 --> 01:10:48,960
it's simply a matter of being open to
recognizing you may find that cringe
1263
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,080
later, uh, or if for that matter,
1264
01:10:51,140 --> 01:10:54,720
you may think it's cringe now and not
find it cringe later, you know, who knows,
1265
01:10:54,820 --> 01:10:56,080
uh, but either way, uh,
1266
01:10:56,130 --> 01:11:00,600
there is a difference between a creative
product that some people think has some
1267
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:05,080
cringe elements and real life, uh,
real people behave in very cringe ways.
1268
01:11:05,140 --> 01:11:08,080
We are called to love them. And that
goes back to our point here, Zach,
1269
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:11,120
about respect and avoiding
harassment and such like, you know,
1270
01:11:11,500 --> 01:11:15,680
you need to love the cringe
maker or the cringe believer. Uh,
1271
01:11:15,710 --> 01:11:18,800
even if you do not
particularly love the cringe.
1272
01:11:19,150 --> 01:11:23,040
Yeah. I, I think the solution, like
so many things is grace and truth.
1273
01:11:23,780 --> 01:11:27,320
We have to be truthful about
when our own art, you know,
1274
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:31,840
especially within the church when,
when we fall short of some and yes,
1275
01:11:31,870 --> 01:11:34,040
objective standards
that as we talked about,
1276
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:37,360
I do think there are objective
standards of beauty. And I,
1277
01:11:37,480 --> 01:11:41,560
I think it's actually pretty easy to
convince Christians of this because, uh,
1278
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:45,680
the idea that art is totally subjective
and just like morality and everything
1279
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:49,200
else that that's a very
postmodern new belief. I,
1280
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:53,360
I think that good art is like all, all
the beauty that we enjoy in nature.
1281
01:11:53,390 --> 01:11:56,600
It's like, you don't have to be
convinced that it's beautiful. If,
1282
01:11:56,620 --> 01:12:00,360
if you're trying too hard to convince
yourself a story is really good,
1283
01:12:00,430 --> 01:12:04,030
then maybe that's a sign. It's
not, so we have to be truthful,
1284
01:12:04,030 --> 01:12:08,510
but then we have to be gracious, uh,
because people enjoy different things and,
1285
01:12:08,510 --> 01:12:10,550
you know, everyone has
their own comfort food,
1286
01:12:10,900 --> 01:12:15,630
whether that's actual food or
or story based food,
1287
01:12:16,410 --> 01:12:18,790
you know, I, I could think
of a friend I work with, uh,
1288
01:12:19,410 --> 01:12:23,590
he really liked that movie, the Meg
that's about the Megalodon, you know,
1289
01:12:23,590 --> 01:12:27,350
it's sort of like a retelling of jaws,
I guess. I'm not exactly sure. Or,
1290
01:12:27,450 --> 01:12:31,410
or deep blue sea it's about a giant
shark that eats people. You know,
1291
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:36,490
it's not a super intellectual film.
, it's not very deep thematically.
1292
01:12:36,710 --> 01:12:41,020
Uh, there's no great purpose
or importance to it. And so,
1293
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:45,060
uh, some of our mutual friends were
making fun of him for watching this.
1294
01:12:45,060 --> 01:12:48,460
And he's like, uh, look, I,
there's plenty of movies.
1295
01:12:48,500 --> 01:12:52,500
I watch just to chill out and relax and
kind of unplugged from all the cares to
1296
01:12:52,500 --> 01:12:52,760
the world.
1297
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:57,020
And this is one of them and I'm gonna
keep watching it and enjoying it for that
1298
01:12:57,020 --> 01:13:00,670
reason. And I'm like, you know
what? I can respect that that's, uh,
1299
01:13:00,670 --> 01:13:04,390
shark movies are not my fandom, but
if that's your fandom that I get it,
1300
01:13:04,620 --> 01:13:08,070
there's always gonna be things
that other people like that,
1301
01:13:08,140 --> 01:13:10,590
that cause us to cringe, or
even that we used to like,
1302
01:13:10,650 --> 01:13:13,390
and that we kind of cringe at
now. But like we said, there's,
1303
01:13:13,390 --> 01:13:18,070
there's always things that we
make that are cringy and look, uh,
1304
01:13:18,070 --> 01:13:21,150
we have to laugh at
ourselves first and then, um,
1305
01:13:21,530 --> 01:13:24,430
but let's be gracious to others,
uh, while telling the truth.
1306
01:13:24,980 --> 01:13:26,750
Amen to that. And a good code of honor,
1307
01:13:26,750 --> 01:13:29,950
whether internal or written
down can help us deal, uh,
1308
01:13:29,950 --> 01:13:32,830
with those disputes over whether or not
the thing is cringe. Like for example,
1309
01:13:33,550 --> 01:13:37,750
I will own the fact that I do not hate
the Hobbit movies. Uh, I don't, uh,
1310
01:13:37,750 --> 01:13:40,870
the first one is especially
good. The second one gets, uh,
1311
01:13:40,870 --> 01:13:42,630
a little bit more cringy
at certain moments.
1312
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:46,350
There are some absolute over the top
cringe moments there that make, uh,
1313
01:13:46,350 --> 01:13:48,670
the cringing Christian
movie look like high art.
1314
01:13:49,010 --> 01:13:52,270
And then the third one is just kind
of mixed, but I do not hate them.
1315
01:13:52,410 --> 01:13:55,630
And I will own that. And I know that
some people will look at me and go, well,
1316
01:13:55,630 --> 01:13:57,630
you like the cringe stuff.
And in that case, well,
1317
01:13:57,630 --> 01:14:00,510
then I think that person needs a code
of honor to show respect to me and not
1318
01:14:00,510 --> 01:14:03,950
harass me about that. But then I need
a code of honor to show respect to you,
1319
01:14:04,460 --> 01:14:06,630
even if I think that
what you enjoy is cringe,
1320
01:14:06,930 --> 01:14:10,430
how have you handled those situations
with, or without a written code of honor,
1321
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:15,120
email us podcast, Laura haven.com. Use
the comment section on the website,
1322
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:19,600
Laura haven.com/podcast. Or of
course you can tag us on the socials,
1323
01:14:19,940 --> 01:14:24,080
let us know what you think. Uh, let us
know how codes of honor have helped you,
1324
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:27,480
whether it's ours or someone
else's. Meanwhile, at Laura Haven,
1325
01:14:27,620 --> 01:14:30,480
as we have mentioned
Monday, September the,
1326
01:14:30,820 --> 01:14:32,720
we are going there and back again,
1327
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:36,720
starting our expected journey
into Jr R Tolkin classic fantasy.
1328
01:14:37,060 --> 01:14:41,720
The Hobbit join us in the Laura Haven
Guild by subscribing free@laurahaven.com.
1329
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:44,560
We'll email you that
invitation. Last week,
1330
01:14:44,620 --> 01:14:49,080
we had Marion Jacobs's new
article@laurahaven.com.
Uh, that was about how,
1331
01:14:49,100 --> 01:14:54,040
in her words, she masked her mental
health with costume design, uh,
1332
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:57,600
and then found some, uh, better,
healthier reasons to work on costumes.
1333
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:01,480
Some really good ones, including the
award winner at the realm awards, uh,
1334
01:15:01,540 --> 01:15:06,080
in July, 2022, uh, she had a
fabulous representation of the lion,
1335
01:15:06,100 --> 01:15:10,280
the witch and wardrobe that is
the entire book. Uh, she got, uh,
1336
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:14,760
drumming on the tables for that, uh,
even, uh, it beat out some, uh, very,
1337
01:15:14,870 --> 01:15:18,080
very excellent cosplay there,
uh, expressions of, uh,
1338
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:21,080
Christian creativity
there also@lordhaven.com.
1339
01:15:21,180 --> 01:15:24,920
We also published our book review of
a book called immortal guardian. Uh,
1340
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:29,320
it looked to me Zach, based
on the description like,
uh, Jason born meets, uh,
1341
01:15:29,410 --> 01:15:30,800
paranormal, uh,
1342
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:34,160
spiritual warfare stuff going on
really interesting premise there,
1343
01:15:34,180 --> 01:15:37,080
go check that out, all links to
the show notes, by the way. Uh,
1344
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:41,160
we also last week shared our article three
Christian fantastical stories to help
1345
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:44,440
your kids head back to school.
Uh, that's applicable to you,
1346
01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:47,840
especially if you have kids ages eight
through 12 and you wanna find them some
1347
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:50,840
great, uh, fantastical
reading material that's, uh,
1348
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:54,920
age appropriate and from Christian
creators, uh, next up, uh,
1349
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:58,600
of course we're doing the Hoit book
quest, uh, next week, but this week, uh,
1350
01:15:58,660 --> 01:16:00,800
not sure what else we have
planned other than this podcast,
1351
01:16:01,340 --> 01:16:06,120
but we are doing an advance review on
Friday of a book called the change. Uh,
1352
01:16:06,120 --> 01:16:10,000
that is book three of a series
called the chase runner series, uh,
1353
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:13,680
from mountain Brook fire,
uh, by Bradley Kathy. Uh,
1354
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:18,510
we're gonna have that review posted
on Friday next on fantastical
1355
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:22,550
truth. The saga begins
Lord willing, not long ago.
1356
01:16:22,570 --> 01:16:26,390
We talked about church libraries and
how these resources can help Christians
1357
01:16:26,420 --> 01:16:30,310
find the best books, including
if not now, then in the future,
1358
01:16:30,580 --> 01:16:35,390
Christian made fantastical fiction,
but what about public libraries?
1359
01:16:35,810 --> 01:16:40,710
How can Christians best discern
and enjoy this resource? Well,
1360
01:16:40,710 --> 01:16:44,430
we're gonna speak with a public library
director who also happens to be a
1361
01:16:44,430 --> 01:16:48,750
prolific Christian novelist of
science fiction, fantasy steampunk,
1362
01:16:48,750 --> 01:16:49,910
paranormal suspense,
1363
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:54,870
and beyond Steve Raza will be
the first guest of our new saga
1364
01:16:54,870 --> 01:16:58,990
of episodes that we're assembling for
this September on fantastical truth.
1365
01:17:00,150 --> 01:17:03,640
Meanwhile, practice a code
of honor, not just one.
1366
01:17:03,660 --> 01:17:08,120
You make up according to other people's
expectations of respect and things like
1367
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:08,820
that.
1368
01:17:08,820 --> 01:17:13,600
But practice a code of honor that is
derived from scripture as best you
1369
01:17:13,700 --> 01:17:18,280
can make it get help from the people
around you get help from mature adults who
1370
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:20,840
have demonstrated honorable
and Christlike conduct.
1371
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:23,400
I think that's the only
way we can handle, uh,
1372
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:27,520
some of these disputes that we have in
Christian groups or creative groups.
1373
01:17:27,900 --> 01:17:31,960
That's the only way we can find
unity, not just in behavior codes,
1374
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:36,120
but in Christ is we continue to
seek and find his fantastical truth.