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Hello everyone, this is Maheen Sohail and you're listening to season two of Fake ID.
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Here, we will share stories that break down the complexities that make up our identity.
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This season is a little different from the first season of Fake ID, and particularly this episode and why I wanted to start this episode is because of what's going on in the world right now.
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What's been going on for many months, actually.
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As you all know, right now there's a genocide taking place in Palestine, And the Palestinian identity right in front of our eyes is being erased.
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Recently, I learned some information that really broke my heart.
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One of my friends late has an end has lost more than 45 members of his family in Palestine, 45.
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Honestly, it makes me speechless.
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There are no words to describe how devastating this must be.
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And while I can't even begin to understand that, I do feel it my responsibility to share the stories that he's shared with me, that hopefully help bring perspective into what it's like being Palestinian today.
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But also how it's been for a very long time now.
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So about two years ago, I interviewed my friend Laith Hassanan on Instagram live for Fake ID, and we did a live event because of the situation that was happening in Palestine at that time.
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There was a lot of airstrikes as well as complications happening across the border.
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You know, when I listened to that episode, it shocks me that the story.
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Is exactly the same.
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In fact, it's insanely worse right now.
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But it brings into perspective how messed up the past many decades have been for Palestine Now, as you're listening to this episode, I just kind of want you to take into consideration how the generational story that Laith is sharing, not just what happened to his grandparents and his parents, But what's actually happening today in 2024 and how every single story is the same, it just continues to get worse, right?
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There's no other difference except it's just getting worse to the point where The future starts to look incredibly bleak.
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And it's the story of how the Palestinian identity has been tried to be erased in so many ways over so many decades being raised both physically But also in the sense of a notion that exists where even our political leaders are unable to acknowledge what is happening.
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And our journalists, like every news channel that I turn to, they are not covering the news accurately.
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And despite all of that, Despite the genocide taking place, despite generations of family being erased, the Palestinian identity is so strong.
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It is so much about resistance and so much about being resilient that it continues to live on no matter how much the world is trying to erase it.
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I think this is true with Especially the college students across the United States and across the world.
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that are going to protests, that are standing up for what they believe in, They are tired of seeing the inaction and the injustice.
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And they are choosing to take a part, in making sure that that identity is even louder.
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is even stronger.
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That they understand the culture, the music, the dance, the food.
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And they represent that in the streets every day.
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Because that is what they can do.
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And you may think, you know, what use is that?
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But from what I understand, it means everything.
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And so the very act of listening to this episode or calling for a ceasefire or going to a protest, just having any conversation on this topic.
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That very notion helps us ensure that the Palestinian identity continues to live on, that nothing can destroy it.
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And so without any further ado, let's listen to this live stream that was recorded with lathe a few years ago.
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Welcome to Fake ID.
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Fake ID essentially is a space for people to talk about identity and share stories.
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And with everything that's happening, in Palestine right now, I just really wanted to cover the story of a Palestinian friend who kind of knows what it's like to experience and grow up Palestinian.
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And of course, I had to ask my friend, Lee.
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He has been such an inspiration for me since the time I moved to Bay Area.
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And, I really just think more people need to hear just who he is and also just his experience, growing up.
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and so welcome late.
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I think first of all, I'll just like to say like.
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It must have been a very, very rough few weeks for you, Leith, I think whatever we're going to talk about, it might be tough, and you've already gone through such like a two, tough two weeks, so I just want to really thank you for Honestly, being open to having this conversation.
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I'm sure you're really tired from everything that's been going on.
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Yeah, it's been a bit exhausting.
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Honestly, I think one of the toughest things is like Feeling all the trauma and and being worried about your family all the time seeing your people, you know and people you care about like, you know, her or even worse killed and literally trying everything that you could possibly do to try to help in any way you can, and knowing that, at least in the short term, nothing that you do is going to make an immediate impact for those people, so it's disheartening, but at the same time, I think it's important that we have this conversation
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so maybe before we start, I'd love if you can give us an introduction of just who you are,
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my name is Laith, so I was born in DC, grew up in, on the East Coast, studied computer science, worked as a software engineer at, actually used to be Instagram, now I'm at WhatsApp, all within the Facebook family.
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Okay.
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and I've been here for almost four years now.
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it's where I, I moved to the Bay and met Maheen and a bunch of other friends there.
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And, yeah, glad to have the opportunity.
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I'm now back in Virginia, working remotely.
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And, yeah, I identify as Palestinian.
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I've been to Palestine multiple times.
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I have family there.
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I have family who are refugees in other places, too.
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if you could describe your identity in a few words, how would you describe it?
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I actually heard this, this thing recently, which was, really impactful.
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but It's like the idea of, an advice of keeping your identity small and like the, the, the point of that is, it doesn't benefit us to tie yourself so closely to something that may not be as meaningful and you want your identity to be very meaningful so I wanna focus on like the few things that matter, even when it comes to being Palestinian, like, I think for me, I care a lot about Palestine and I identify very strongly with it, and that's where I'm from.
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But the underlying principle behind identifying with Palestine is just justice and human rights, and that it's the right thing to do.
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I, just as strongly as I feel about Palestine, you know, I want to feel for the other folks who are facing injustice, and, and, you know, facing, crises against their human rights, whether it's our Black brothers and sisters, whether it's the Uyghurs in China, whether it's in Myanmar, whether it's in Kashmir, and, and I think that, I'd like to think of myself as someone who stands for justice and tries their best to do the right thing, I think someone who, when faced with adversity or, like, more pressure, It kind of forces me to even, like, buckle down and be stronger, and I think that's, that's something that I really get a lot from, from my Palestinian family, because it's something that they do all the time, and they're inspirations of strength in that way, Yeah,
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it just seems that, like, being Palestinian has, helped shape her identity so much.
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Like even the strength thing that you're saying.
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I've heard stories about, your family and you've told me how strong, you know, your mom is, for example, and how much you love her and, and how she's been such a great example for, for you.
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so I guess follow up question to that would be what does being Palestinian mean to you?
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Sure.
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I think, first thing is, a sense of loyalty and principles.
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A lot of my family from Palestine, like, both my parents sides, like, were expelled from their homes, and I think it's interesting because Palestine as a region has been referred to as Palestine even since the Roman times, and, you know, there's even some indigenous Afro Palestinians who actually, like, you know, strongly identify as Palestinians, And it came around the time of Mansa Musa, and I think one of the misconceptions that exists is that the Palestinian identity is just Arab or just, you know, Muslim, which is very much not the case.
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There are Christians, Jews, Muslims, every faith.
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There's also, you know, a wide group of ethnic groups as well there.
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So I think for me, the Palestinian identity encompasses all those things, but even more so, it encompasses the idea that, you know, of, not giving up, being strong, not being intimidated, or, you know, turned down, I'll give you a story that kind of elaborates, my favorite part about being Palestinian, one of the things I do is, mentor and teach, computer science students in Palestine, One of them, even throughout all these shellings and all these airstrikes, all these bombings, and basically not knowing whether or not he's gonna, you know, be here in like the next even 15 minutes, did not miss a single, class.
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So he, we had practice interviews.
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he didn't miss a single one.
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He showed up to every single one, and I think he was the top student there.
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I think it just goes to show that, like, nothing you do will break the spirit of, you know, a Palestinian, I think that's one of the things, to summarize it, is, like, having an unbreakable spirit.
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Yeah, super resilient and unbreakable.
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So, I think, sort of getting to you mentioned a bit about your family in the beginning, I'd love to learn more about your family's history, whether it was in the States or in Palestine.
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so my both sides of my family were expelled from their homes.
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My dad's family is from a village called Deir el Duban.
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It's, near Hebron or El Khalil.
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it's now in the occupied part of, Palestine and Israel
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Seventy years have passed since the Nakba.
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The catastrophe in Arabic took place in Palestine in 1948, in which more than 750, 000 Palestinians were forcefully displaced from their homes and pushed into refugee camps in East Jerusalem, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and neighboring countries.
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my, both sets of my grandparents are Fallaheen, which means, you know, farmers, they, uh, you know, left in 1948 and became refugees and eventually made their way to, Jordan.
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And I still have parts of my family who, didn't go all the way to Jordan, but are just in other parts of Palestine that, you know, are under occupation.
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And then, my mom's side of the family, they, were expelled from their homes in 1967.
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And they, they're from, a village, near Jerusalem, and my mom was just about a year old and actually I have an interesting story about this one and I've heard it from my uncle.
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they had to escape.
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they actually rode in the back of a, of a big dump truck.
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And, my grandma carried everything that she could possibly fit, which was, like, a mattress, and inside the mattress was wrapped, like, some food, some clothes, some, you know, basic necessities.
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got help from, you know, her little kids, the oldest of which was, like, 10 years old, and then all the money that they had, which was, like, you know, in today's, uh, U.
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S.
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dollars, probably, like, Like fifty or a hundred bucks, she ripped a hole in like the suit jacket that my uncle had She, put it in the like in the shoulder, like where the shoulder patch is.
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And she sewed it in there, and she made him wear the jacket, and it was like the middle of August, and like blistering heat.
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And, you know, the dump truck dropped them off, you know, some...
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Like miles, like tons of miles away from where the border was so they had to walk like the rest of the way and they would, you know, it was over a few days.
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So, they would like, you know, stay in the cave or, or, or hide.
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And then, the villagers that were with my grandma who were part of her village, they had didn't have water.
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So they were drinking like from the stream.
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And I guess my mom had gotten sick.
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She was like a baby and I don't even know what was in that water.
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It's just like random stream water.
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And she was, she was crying and she was like, coughing and they were worried that it would, Give them away to the soldiers, so there were people in the village who were trying to actually throw my mom away Like you'll kill her as a baby and my grandma had to literally defend her like with her life And she was saying if you guys want to go ahead like go ahead, but I'm gonna stay like I'm not gonna leave You know, I'll be behind Eventually, like, you know, she ended up Her and her whole family making it all the way to the border where my grandfather So when you, when they went to the border, the bridge across the Jordan River had been, bombed, and there was, you know, they had put these 2x4s or 2x6s, like just two pieces of wood planks side by side with like little ropes on the side as like, railings to go over the part of the bridge that was broken.
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And, if you fell into the river, like most people couldn't swim, like, you're basically gone.
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So my grandma, with all this stuff on her head and carrying my mom and being pregnant, you know, got across as well as like my, my uncles and aunts who were, You know, the oldest one being 12, the youngest one probably like, you know, a few years old, other than my mom, who was the youngest at that time.
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And when they finally made it across, they met with my grandfather, who had been waiting at the border for 17 days straight.
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And keep in mind, they don't have a home there.
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So...
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He, he was just, you know, living, like, basically by that bridge, camping out.
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He had, didn't even have food or water to keep them, but imagine waiting for that long, and there's no cell phones, obviously, there's no, like, you know, communication, there's no letters, there's nothing, and you basically have to, Hope for the best and hope that your family isn't one of the people who, were lost, in the journey or, or like, for the folks who in their village, like, you know, resisted and didn't want to leave their homes, like, you know, they were killed.
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So, it was, pretty, crazy.
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And when I think about You know, just that, just that little instance, like one part of that entire journey, which again, this is just in 1967 and, there's generations that happened to like where I got here, it makes me just think of first of all, how lucky I have to be here.
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And I think it only increases my sense of obligation for like, what, what can I do to, make the situation better for, for my
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people?
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Yeah, thank you for sharing that story.
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I think what's bizarre to me is that that's happening even today.
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Like, the exact story you mentioned and so, I guess the follow up question I have about that is, you hear these stories about your parents, your grandparents, and It can lead to a lot of, like, intergenerational trauma Have you ever identified aspects of your life where you're like, Oh, I think I feel this way because I'm Palestinian, or I feel this way because it might be coming from what my great grandparents have experienced?
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And how does that make you feel as a Palestinian?
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regardless of where you're from, or even where your family's from, Like, hearing injustices and, and like, you know, see, knowing about this kind of stuff should make anybody who cares about, you know, justice upset and like, you know, and I think it, you know, being Palestinian obviously hurts, even more, like seeing your own family, like people that you love, like one of my friends, Omar, from the Bay Area, I'm actually going to be putting out a fundraiser on my story soon for him, so, you know, look out for that, but he lost, you know, 23 members of his family in a single airstrike, spanning four generations from six months old to 92 years old from a single airstrike just in the past couple weeks.
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And the only survivor is from, you know, the Wrecked family is his 10 year old cousin.
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Who now doesn't have parents, doesn't have grandparents, you know, doesn't have, siblings, like, is by himself.
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so, when you, when you hear about something like that, like, how can you continue with the rest of your day not thinking about it even when I was talking to my family in Palestine, like, I couldn't help but get emotional over the phone and they were the ones comforting me, which if you think about it is kind of almost like, you know, backwards, like I'm the one here who's like privileged and safe while they're the ones who are in the in the heat of everything.
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I think, in some sense, it goes to show their strength and resilience and like, they felt that they needed to comfort me, but at the same time, it makes it really hard knowing that that's happening and I can't really do anything about it, like, in the short term.
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I know in the past you've sort of done many trips back to Palestine to help the youth through education.
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And right now you're also helping sort of with some, some cases, for Palestinians that are raising their voice in the United States and facing repercussions.
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Can you maybe share a bit more about what you're doing in either experiences?
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Yeah, I think.
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The important thing to realize is like, like you mentioned, like to do what we can and keep in mind that this is like a marathon, not a sprint.
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So I think when I think about the whole issue Palestinians are living under occupation.
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And, like, for example, the unemployment rate in Gaza is over 80%.
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And it's not like they're uneducated people.
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They're actually.
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Some of the brightest and most educated people that I've ever met.
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And when I go to work with them, I'm surprised and shocked at the lack of opportunity that they have for the amount of talent that they have.
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So, I think.
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Step one is basically giving them an oxygen mask so we can, they can take care of themselves instead of having to rely, because a lot of the aid in general in the areas, you know, symptom based or symptom focused, and I think it's important to have that kind of relief, but long term I don't think it's going to get us out of like the hole that we're in.
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So I think.
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You know, building up, education, helping people get opportunities like, you know, where they can actually take care of themselves and their whole family, making the entire society as a whole grow so that we can take care of each other and, and, and build each other up.
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First of all the Middle East is the only region in the entire world, like, including Palestine, where there are more women than men studying computer science.
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a lot of the reason that they do it is because they love it and it makes them feel independent and it makes them feel, it's empowering.
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So that's one reason I really, like, you know, value it.
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Two is the really high youth unemployment rate.
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Actually, the youth unemployment rate in the Middle East is, like, overall on average is double that of, even the, the second, highest region, which is Sub Saharan Africa, for youth unemployment.
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So there's a lot of, Educated young people who don't have anything to do and, and like, you know, are living under occupation, basically, applications to CS programs over the past five years have increased 20x, in Palestine, and part of that is because, people are starting to see the value that, and the potential that it has.
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Thank you.
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And like the things that they can do because I've seen all kinds of like really cool creations, like even from some of the students that I've taught myself, I had two students who worked together who created this app that could tell you, just by pointing your camera, like your phone camera at your skin, whether or not, yeah.
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You know, a specific mark on your skin is high or low risk of skin cancer.
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they did that just from the skills and experience that they had from studying computer science and the other guy had some experience in the medical field and they worked together to build that app.
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Things like that are amazing and I think that there's plenty of potential for building things that, you know, the barrier to entry is low.
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So that's scratching the surface of like how I see the long term vision of it going.
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But I think the idea is it's basically helping the Palestinian people, take care of themselves and having to rely on others and like building independence for them as a whole.
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I think it's important to think about the short term things like, you know, raising awareness and like, you know, donating to some of these, things that help in the short term, but also, ask yourself the critical question of like, what, where am I, you know, uniquely capable and, set up to do something that will help long term.
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And, you know, these are things that can scale to because even the work that we're doing in Palestine, like it's gotten some attention, at work, like, at Facebook, Facebook actually sponsored one of the trips that we had to go teach in Gaza and they paid for it and they got all the permits and everything.
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And, it was such a success that even other, leaders in the partnership teams that partner with, you know, different regions.
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Wanted to do the same thing in Sub Saharan Africa and other places and We were more than happy to help and like set up the playbook and all that kind of stuff And I think that going forward we're going to need to see more of that Solidarity across the board whether it's an efforts like these or on the ground Like I think one of my favorite memories ever was when I was at the BLM protests in San Francisco And I was wearing my keffiyeh, which is like a Palestinian scarf one of the signs of resistance and The amount of people that came to me and just said, you know, Hey man, free Palestine, or, Hey Ben, thanks for being here and like, giving me a hug or like a pat on the back was, was something that was like really warming and made me feel like we're all in this together.
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And I think that's like one of the feelings that we, we should all feel.
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And, and, one of the things that will make us, help us all as like marginalized people and, and people who, whose voices are not heard as much to get heard.
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That's so important.
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So I just wanna summarize everything you said It's, the way you described it is there's like a sprint and a marathon way of thinking about it, and in terms of a marathon, you know, there's so many things you can do.
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For example, the thing you mentioned about Palestine with so many women going into computer science, like that blows my mind.
00:22:45.153 --> 00:22:48.659
The fact that it's the highest in the country, like that's insane.
00:22:48.659 --> 00:22:51.074
In the world, like that's insane.
00:22:51.074 --> 00:23:08.122
And so like As individuals, a lot of us who do work in tech, like I know you've mentioned this in the past, like being able to go there and also teach people or like even remotely be able to teach people or putting in the effort to like, particularly hire Palestinian people could go a long way to create that example.
00:23:08.382 --> 00:23:10.612
And then in terms of a sprint.
00:23:10.846 --> 00:23:17.376
Right now, really just continuing to elevate the voices of Palestinians and ensuring that you're educating people around you.
00:23:17.376 --> 00:23:21.356
You want to speak a bit more about what are those things that require education at the moment?
00:23:22.227 --> 00:23:23.916
Yeah, I think there are a few things.
00:23:25.017 --> 00:23:29.086
the, the biggest one is to understand that, you know, this is not like a religious conflict.
00:23:29.086 --> 00:23:33.477
This is not, something where like there's two sides having a war.
00:23:33.527 --> 00:23:34.676
It's not a war.
00:23:34.686 --> 00:23:35.027
There's.
00:23:35.672 --> 00:24:00.632
A big asymmetry of power, and this is like a human rights issue and, an injustice against like all of humanity And I want to make it really clear to that, criticism of Israel or Of, a lot of the atrocities and war crimes and, you know, Geneva Conventions, laws that are being broken and, you know, UN human rights violations that are, you know, recognized by the entire world and almost every single country in the world.
00:24:00.801 --> 00:24:18.551
that, that is not anti Semitic and equating it to anti Semitism is actually harmful to not just Muslims, but, Jews as well, like, it's, it's really not okay to me when I see people, saying that, oh, this is like a religious conflict, a religious conflict, or that, like, somebody speaks up about it and they, you know, get, get labeled.
00:24:18.771 --> 00:24:31.297
I think one of the things that, is, is good to look at is, The response from a lot of these communities and the solidarity between the communities and, anybody in my local community and the people around me and everyone I talk to is going to stand up and say any of these injustices are wrong.
00:24:31.576 --> 00:24:39.717
Anti Semitism is a real problem and it happens in a lot of places and I think that, you know, it kind of hurts the idea to say that.
00:24:40.122 --> 00:24:47.112
criticism of, you know, a government that's committing human rights violations is anti Semitic because, you know, that's definitely not the case.
00:24:47.162 --> 00:24:53.757
I think, understanding that, you know, Palestinians aren't just Arabs and Muslims like they're they're Christians.
00:24:53.777 --> 00:24:55.977
Like I said, there's indigenous like Afro Palestinians.
00:24:56.017 --> 00:24:58.636
There's all kinds of people that are affected by this.
00:24:58.987 --> 00:25:04.527
I also want to, you know, say that, those groups have lived together in harmony for a really long time.
00:25:04.527 --> 00:25:15.386
Like, I have stories from from friendly friends and family from 1904 in Haifa, which is in northwest, the northwest part of Palestine, and it's now occupied.
00:25:15.747 --> 00:25:19.826
By Israel and, in their neighborhood, there was Jews and Christians and Muslims coming together.
00:25:19.826 --> 00:25:25.876
And on, on Friday, when the Muslims would go to the mosque, they would leave their kids with their Jewish neighbors.
00:25:25.896 --> 00:25:30.027
And on Saturday, when the Jews would go to the synagogue, they would leave their kids with their Muslim neighbors.
00:25:30.067 --> 00:25:37.067
And that was how people lived, you know, in Palestine in the 1900s before everything happened after World War II.
00:25:37.247 --> 00:25:39.317
and I think, that's...
00:25:40.862 --> 00:25:45.412
a really important thing to, contextualize that, this was never a religious conflict.
00:25:45.412 --> 00:25:48.061
This was never like a, you know, a war.
00:25:48.082 --> 00:25:53.531
It's just a, another story of colonialism that, you know, it's a repeat of history.
00:25:54.092 --> 00:25:59.731
I want to maybe switch the discussion a bit to more of a more positive point of being Palestinian.
00:26:00.031 --> 00:26:06.652
a lot of people these days are just getting to hear about all the, you know, the atrocities that are happening in the region.
00:26:06.672 --> 00:26:11.912
And what I would love to hear from you is what do you love about being Palestinian?
00:26:11.912 --> 00:26:14.481
Like, can you tell us about the culture and what you love about it?
00:26:14.866 --> 00:26:18.537
I think some of the most amazing parts were that it kind of defined a lot of my growing up.
00:26:18.626 --> 00:26:25.846
for example, when I was going through some of the toughest things that, I didn't let it, ever break my spirit or make me like not want to do it.
00:26:25.846 --> 00:26:29.586
And I actually think the more adversity I faced or the more people telling I couldn't do it.
00:26:29.987 --> 00:26:31.957
the more, driven I was to do it.
00:26:32.017 --> 00:26:39.017
think that's one of the things that I love about being Palestinian is like hearing stories and growing up with family and seeing how they act, you know, facing adversity.
00:26:39.406 --> 00:26:50.298
It completely changes your perspective what drives you and like how you deal with adversity and, it helps, it helped me build that like unbreakable spirit that I talk about, you know, about the Palestinian identity There's a lot of other things too, obviously, like, you know, food and.
00:26:50.874 --> 00:26:55.483
You know, amazing sites and places to see and culture and, you know, dance and clothing and those kind of things.
00:26:55.854 --> 00:27:08.644
And all those things are really nice, but they're like, play a secondary role compared to like the core identity, of having this unbreakable spirit and, you know, not letting anybody take your identity and your, history away from you.
00:27:08.644 --> 00:27:23.614
on that note, knowing that a lot of Palestinians, have either migrated abroad or lived in different Arab countries, and returned home, You basically Palestinians are in different places and identity must have evolved over time, even for you kind of growing up in D.
00:27:23.614 --> 00:27:23.943
C.
00:27:23.943 --> 00:27:27.713
And in the States, how much of the core culture has stuck around?
00:27:27.713 --> 00:27:32.673
And how do you think the identity of being Palestinian has evolved for those people that live abroad?
00:27:33.314 --> 00:27:34.713
so I'll give you an example.
00:27:35.023 --> 00:27:37.294
A protest that I was that in D.
00:27:37.294 --> 00:27:37.644
C.
00:27:38.153 --> 00:27:55.489
there was a speaker who came and said how you They were older and they said, when I was a kid and I was, in my teens and twenties and I was at these protests, like in DC, they used to tell us that, Oh, like you're the young generation, like, this is still fresh in their minds.
00:27:55.519 --> 00:28:02.209
And, you know, when you grow up and you have your kids and they have their kids, like people are going to forget about Palestine and, you know, we're just going to just move on with their life.
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:08.449
And like the protest that we were at was like five times as good as any protest that she ever went to growing up.
00:28:08.558 --> 00:28:18.368
And I think, The one way that has evolved over time is that um, you know, it's the exact opposite effect of what you would expect to happen would happen.
00:28:18.368 --> 00:28:26.798
it's kind of counterintuitive because as you move further away and you get further away and you have this distance and you have these barriers, like you can't, sometimes some people can't even visit their family.
00:28:26.798 --> 00:28:37.347
a lot of those experiences and, that unbreakable spirit, to me, that's one of the most interesting ways that it has evolved is that the Palestinian identity has only become stronger with time.
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:44.079
And, you know, the more and more it's attempted to be erased, the more resilient it becomes.
00:28:48.805 --> 00:28:49.275
All right.
00:28:49.305 --> 00:28:51.625
Well, those are all the questions we had.
00:28:51.664 --> 00:28:56.545
if people have any more questions, just send them to fake ID podcast, or you can message late directly.
00:28:56.595 --> 00:28:57.765
Do you have any final thoughts, Leith?
00:28:57.785 --> 00:29:00.224
I wanted to give a quick plug to the Fake ID Podcast.
00:29:00.224 --> 00:29:00.815
It's amazing.
00:29:00.865 --> 00:29:00.954
Oh.
00:29:01.555 --> 00:29:05.464
It's about identity in general, and I think Meehim does a great job of capturing that.
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:07.269
for all, all different kinds of people.
00:29:07.309 --> 00:29:10.150
So I've listened to a bunch of episodes and I love it.
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.210
So, you know, there's a lot of other cool stuff to check out too.
00:29:13.210 --> 00:29:16.910
So make sure you, you give me some support and, fake ID podcast.
00:29:17.430 --> 00:29:18.259
Yeah.
00:29:18.380 --> 00:29:18.759
Thank you.
00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:19.329
Lays.
00:29:20.730 --> 00:29:21.190
All right.
00:29:21.509 --> 00:29:22.160
Bye everyone.
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:23.900
Bye.
00:29:24.579 --> 00:29:24.829
Bye.
00:29:27.443 --> 00:29:49.403
I don't know about you, but listening to this episode that was recorded maybe three years ago in 2024, listening to it now, it just makes me shake my head because you realize nothing has changed and yet everything has gotten worse.
00:29:53.364 --> 00:30:32.439
I think more than ever, we all need to play a very significant role in learning about the past and every single injustice that has happened in Palestine so we can tell the story so we can continue to share the voices and the stories of not just today but the past generations because the world needs to remember what has happened and the world needs to remember who Palestinians are The world needs to see it.
00:30:33.098 --> 00:30:34.729
The world needs to experience it.
00:30:37.159 --> 00:30:45.328
And I hope all of you understand the responsibility that you and I play in that.
00:30:48.608 --> 00:30:50.118
Thank you for listening to Fake ID.
00:30:51.078 --> 00:30:58.719
If you like Fake ID, please consider subscribing to us on wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, or follow us on Fake ID Podcasts on Instagram.
00:30:59.388 --> 00:31:01.528
And I will see you in the next episode.
00:31:02.338 --> 00:31:02.618
Bye.
00:00:01.909 --> 00:00:07.379
Hello everyone, this is Maheen Sohail and you're listening to season two of Fake ID.
00:00:07.900 --> 00:00:12.369
Here, we will share stories that break down the complexities that make up our identity.
00:00:13.810 --> 00:00:24.129
This season is a little different from the first season of Fake ID, and particularly this episode and why I wanted to start this episode is because of what's going on in the world right now.
00:00:24.809 --> 00:00:27.289
What's been going on for many months, actually.
00:00:28.379 --> 00:00:37.219
As you all know, right now there's a genocide taking place in Palestine, And the Palestinian identity right in front of our eyes is being erased.
00:00:39.909 --> 00:00:43.490
Recently, I learned some information that really broke my heart.
00:00:44.380 --> 00:00:52.310
One of my friends late has an end has lost more than 45 members of his family in Palestine, 45.
00:00:53.780 --> 00:00:56.159
Honestly, it makes me speechless.
00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:02.200
There are no words to describe how devastating this must be.
00:01:04.250 --> 00:01:16.209
And while I can't even begin to understand that, I do feel it my responsibility to share the stories that he's shared with me, that hopefully help bring perspective into what it's like being Palestinian today.
00:01:17.215 --> 00:01:20.385
But also how it's been for a very long time now.
00:01:20.385 --> 00:01:31.094
So about two years ago, I interviewed my friend Laith Hassanan on Instagram live for Fake ID, and we did a live event because of the situation that was happening in Palestine at that time.
00:01:31.635 --> 00:01:35.474
There was a lot of airstrikes as well as complications happening across the border.
00:02:34.236 --> 00:02:39.366
You know, when I listened to that episode, it shocks me that the story.
00:02:40.176 --> 00:02:41.556
Is exactly the same.
00:02:42.477 --> 00:02:45.477
In fact, it's insanely worse right now.
00:02:45.997 --> 00:03:21.502
But it brings into perspective how messed up the past many decades have been for Palestine Now, as you're listening to this episode, I just kind of want you to take into consideration how the generational story that Laith is sharing, not just what happened to his grandparents and his parents, But what's actually happening today in 2024 and how every single story is the same, it just continues to get worse, right?
00:03:21.502 --> 00:03:31.472
There's no other difference except it's just getting worse to the point where The future starts to look incredibly bleak.
00:03:33.122 --> 00:03:56.356
And it's the story of how the Palestinian identity has been tried to be erased in so many ways over so many decades being raised both physically But also in the sense of a notion that exists where even our political leaders are unable to acknowledge what is happening.
00:03:56.986 --> 00:04:03.037
And our journalists, like every news channel that I turn to, they are not covering the news accurately.
00:04:04.076 --> 00:04:13.231
And despite all of that, Despite the genocide taking place, despite generations of family being erased, the Palestinian identity is so strong.
00:04:13.852 --> 00:04:23.492
It is so much about resistance and so much about being resilient that it continues to live on no matter how much the world is trying to erase it.
00:04:26.661 --> 00:04:32.252
I think this is true with Especially the college students across the United States and across the world.
00:04:33.031 --> 00:04:42.771
that are going to protests, that are standing up for what they believe in, They are tired of seeing the inaction and the injustice.
00:04:43.942 --> 00:04:53.201
And they are choosing to take a part, in making sure that that identity is even louder.
00:04:53.781 --> 00:04:55.031
is even stronger.
00:04:56.151 --> 00:05:00.262
That they understand the culture, the music, the dance, the food.
00:05:02.362 --> 00:05:04.992
And they represent that in the streets every day.
00:05:06.872 --> 00:05:08.411
Because that is what they can do.
00:05:11.232 --> 00:05:14.211
And you may think, you know, what use is that?
00:05:16.237 --> 00:05:20.187
But from what I understand, it means everything.
00:05:22.533 --> 00:05:33.024
And so the very act of listening to this episode or calling for a ceasefire or going to a protest, just having any conversation on this topic.
00:05:33.778 --> 00:05:41.038
That very notion helps us ensure that the Palestinian identity continues to live on, that nothing can destroy it.
00:05:43.848 --> 00:05:50.199
And so without any further ado, let's listen to this live stream that was recorded with lathe a few years ago.
00:05:51.406 --> 00:05:52.846
Welcome to Fake ID.
00:05:52.896 --> 00:05:58.137
Fake ID essentially is a space for people to talk about identity and share stories.
00:05:58.617 --> 00:06:09.687
And with everything that's happening, in Palestine right now, I just really wanted to cover the story of a Palestinian friend who kind of knows what it's like to experience and grow up Palestinian.
00:06:10.036 --> 00:06:12.557
And of course, I had to ask my friend, Lee.
00:06:12.882 --> 00:06:17.451
He has been such an inspiration for me since the time I moved to Bay Area.
00:06:17.841 --> 00:06:24.122
And, I really just think more people need to hear just who he is and also just his experience, growing up.
00:06:24.182 --> 00:06:26.041
and so welcome late.
00:06:26.992 --> 00:06:29.432
I think first of all, I'll just like to say like.
00:06:29.781 --> 00:06:44.317
It must have been a very, very rough few weeks for you, Leith, I think whatever we're going to talk about, it might be tough, and you've already gone through such like a two, tough two weeks, so I just want to really thank you for Honestly, being open to having this conversation.
00:06:44.317 --> 00:06:46.747
I'm sure you're really tired from everything that's been going on.
00:06:48.226 --> 00:06:50.016
Yeah, it's been a bit exhausting.
00:06:52.596 --> 00:07:21.507
Honestly, I think one of the toughest things is like Feeling all the trauma and and being worried about your family all the time seeing your people, you know and people you care about like, you know, her or even worse killed and literally trying everything that you could possibly do to try to help in any way you can, and knowing that, at least in the short term, nothing that you do is going to make an immediate impact for those people, so it's disheartening, but at the same time, I think it's important that we have this conversation
00:07:21.536 --> 00:07:25.406
so maybe before we start, I'd love if you can give us an introduction of just who you are,
00:07:25.466 --> 00:07:38.206
my name is Laith, so I was born in DC, grew up in, on the East Coast, studied computer science, worked as a software engineer at, actually used to be Instagram, now I'm at WhatsApp, all within the Facebook family.
00:07:38.206 --> 00:07:38.221
Okay.
00:07:38.762 --> 00:07:41.641
and I've been here for almost four years now.
00:07:41.721 --> 00:07:45.541
it's where I, I moved to the Bay and met Maheen and a bunch of other friends there.
00:07:45.961 --> 00:07:47.622
And, yeah, glad to have the opportunity.
00:07:47.802 --> 00:07:50.322
I'm now back in Virginia, working remotely.
00:07:50.572 --> 00:07:53.031
And, yeah, I identify as Palestinian.
00:07:53.031 --> 00:07:55.052
I've been to Palestine multiple times.
00:07:55.072 --> 00:07:56.012
I have family there.
00:07:56.081 --> 00:07:58.062
I have family who are refugees in other places, too.
00:07:58.062 --> 00:08:01.841
if you could describe your identity in a few words, how would you describe it?
00:08:02.971 --> 00:08:06.692
I actually heard this, this thing recently, which was, really impactful.
00:08:07.341 --> 00:08:30.526
but It's like the idea of, an advice of keeping your identity small and like the, the, the point of that is, it doesn't benefit us to tie yourself so closely to something that may not be as meaningful and you want your identity to be very meaningful so I wanna focus on like the few things that matter, even when it comes to being Palestinian, like, I think for me, I care a lot about Palestine and I identify very strongly with it, and that's where I'm from.
00:08:30.531 --> 00:08:38.647
But the underlying principle behind identifying with Palestine is just justice and human rights, and that it's the right thing to do.
00:08:39.741 --> 00:09:18.966
I, just as strongly as I feel about Palestine, you know, I want to feel for the other folks who are facing injustice, and, and, you know, facing, crises against their human rights, whether it's our Black brothers and sisters, whether it's the Uyghurs in China, whether it's in Myanmar, whether it's in Kashmir, and, and I think that, I'd like to think of myself as someone who stands for justice and tries their best to do the right thing, I think someone who, when faced with adversity or, like, more pressure, It kind of forces me to even, like, buckle down and be stronger, and I think that's, that's something that I really get a lot from, from my Palestinian family, because it's something that they do all the time, and they're inspirations of strength in that way, Yeah,
00:09:19.027 --> 00:09:22.417
it just seems that, like, being Palestinian has, helped shape her identity so much.
00:09:22.417 --> 00:09:23.947
Like even the strength thing that you're saying.
00:09:23.966 --> 00:09:33.667
I've heard stories about, your family and you've told me how strong, you know, your mom is, for example, and how much you love her and, and how she's been such a great example for, for you.
00:09:34.167 --> 00:09:38.256
so I guess follow up question to that would be what does being Palestinian mean to you?
00:09:39.017 --> 00:09:39.407
Sure.
00:09:40.386 --> 00:09:44.647
I think, first thing is, a sense of loyalty and principles.
00:09:44.706 --> 00:10:16.831
A lot of my family from Palestine, like, both my parents sides, like, were expelled from their homes, and I think it's interesting because Palestine as a region has been referred to as Palestine even since the Roman times, and, you know, there's even some indigenous Afro Palestinians who actually, like, you know, strongly identify as Palestinians, And it came around the time of Mansa Musa, and I think one of the misconceptions that exists is that the Palestinian identity is just Arab or just, you know, Muslim, which is very much not the case.
00:10:16.831 --> 00:10:19.682
There are Christians, Jews, Muslims, every faith.
00:10:20.081 --> 00:10:23.312
There's also, you know, a wide group of ethnic groups as well there.
00:10:23.312 --> 00:11:01.581
So I think for me, the Palestinian identity encompasses all those things, but even more so, it encompasses the idea that, you know, of, not giving up, being strong, not being intimidated, or, you know, turned down, I'll give you a story that kind of elaborates, my favorite part about being Palestinian, one of the things I do is, mentor and teach, computer science students in Palestine, One of them, even throughout all these shellings and all these airstrikes, all these bombings, and basically not knowing whether or not he's gonna, you know, be here in like the next even 15 minutes, did not miss a single, class.
00:11:01.581 --> 00:11:03.221
So he, we had practice interviews.
00:11:03.802 --> 00:11:04.731
he didn't miss a single one.
00:11:04.731 --> 00:11:07.272
He showed up to every single one, and I think he was the top student there.
00:11:07.282 --> 00:11:16.581
I think it just goes to show that, like, nothing you do will break the spirit of, you know, a Palestinian, I think that's one of the things, to summarize it, is, like, having an unbreakable spirit.
00:11:17.192 --> 00:11:19.682
Yeah, super resilient and unbreakable.
00:11:20.211 --> 00:11:31.371
So, I think, sort of getting to you mentioned a bit about your family in the beginning, I'd love to learn more about your family's history, whether it was in the States or in Palestine.
00:11:31.422 --> 00:11:35.751
so my both sides of my family were expelled from their homes.
00:11:35.751 --> 00:11:39.542
My dad's family is from a village called Deir el Duban.
00:11:39.542 --> 00:11:42.447
It's, near Hebron or El Khalil.
00:11:43.027 --> 00:11:46.270
it's now in the occupied part of, Palestine and Israel
00:11:48.730 --> 00:11:50.774
Seventy years have passed since the Nakba.
00:11:51.315 --> 00:12:07.205
The catastrophe in Arabic took place in Palestine in 1948, in which more than 750, 000 Palestinians were forcefully displaced from their homes and pushed into refugee camps in East Jerusalem, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and neighboring countries.
00:12:08.620 --> 00:12:19.791
my, both sets of my grandparents are Fallaheen, which means, you know, farmers, they, uh, you know, left in 1948 and became refugees and eventually made their way to, Jordan.
00:12:20.336 --> 00:12:27.125
And I still have parts of my family who, didn't go all the way to Jordan, but are just in other parts of Palestine that, you know, are under occupation.
00:12:27.125 --> 00:12:32.885
And then, my mom's side of the family, they, were expelled from their homes in 1967.
00:12:33.285 --> 00:12:43.995
And they, they're from, a village, near Jerusalem, and my mom was just about a year old and actually I have an interesting story about this one and I've heard it from my uncle.
00:12:44.046 --> 00:12:44.975
they had to escape.
00:12:45.025 --> 00:12:48.086
they actually rode in the back of a, of a big dump truck.
00:12:48.596 --> 00:12:57.225
And, my grandma carried everything that she could possibly fit, which was, like, a mattress, and inside the mattress was wrapped, like, some food, some clothes, some, you know, basic necessities.
00:12:57.515 --> 00:13:06.716
got help from, you know, her little kids, the oldest of which was, like, 10 years old, and then all the money that they had, which was, like, you know, in today's, uh, U.
00:13:06.716 --> 00:13:06.846
S.
00:13:06.846 --> 00:13:18.104
dollars, probably, like, Like fifty or a hundred bucks, she ripped a hole in like the suit jacket that my uncle had She, put it in the like in the shoulder, like where the shoulder patch is.
00:13:18.453 --> 00:13:23.894
And she sewed it in there, and she made him wear the jacket, and it was like the middle of August, and like blistering heat.
00:13:24.344 --> 00:13:29.183
And, you know, the dump truck dropped them off, you know, some...
00:13:29.649 --> 00:13:36.739
Like miles, like tons of miles away from where the border was so they had to walk like the rest of the way and they would, you know, it was over a few days.
00:13:36.739 --> 00:13:40.749
So, they would like, you know, stay in the cave or, or, or hide.
00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:46.639
And then, the villagers that were with my grandma who were part of her village, they had didn't have water.
00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:47.908
So they were drinking like from the stream.
00:13:47.908 --> 00:13:49.379
And I guess my mom had gotten sick.
00:13:49.379 --> 00:13:51.798
She was like a baby and I don't even know what was in that water.
00:13:51.798 --> 00:13:53.009
It's just like random stream water.
00:13:53.509 --> 00:14:36.354
And she was, she was crying and she was like, coughing and they were worried that it would, Give them away to the soldiers, so there were people in the village who were trying to actually throw my mom away Like you'll kill her as a baby and my grandma had to literally defend her like with her life And she was saying if you guys want to go ahead like go ahead, but I'm gonna stay like I'm not gonna leave You know, I'll be behind Eventually, like, you know, she ended up Her and her whole family making it all the way to the border where my grandfather So when you, when they went to the border, the bridge across the Jordan River had been, bombed, and there was, you know, they had put these 2x4s or 2x6s, like just two pieces of wood planks side by side with like little ropes on the side as like, railings to go over the part of the bridge that was broken.
00:14:36.403 --> 00:14:41.043
And, if you fell into the river, like most people couldn't swim, like, you're basically gone.
00:14:41.563 --> 00:14:55.124
So my grandma, with all this stuff on her head and carrying my mom and being pregnant, you know, got across as well as like my, my uncles and aunts who were, You know, the oldest one being 12, the youngest one probably like, you know, a few years old, other than my mom, who was the youngest at that time.
00:14:56.004 --> 00:15:02.734
And when they finally made it across, they met with my grandfather, who had been waiting at the border for 17 days straight.
00:15:03.144 --> 00:15:05.943
And keep in mind, they don't have a home there.
00:15:06.004 --> 00:15:06.443
So...
00:15:07.094 --> 00:15:11.504
He, he was just, you know, living, like, basically by that bridge, camping out.
00:15:11.774 --> 00:15:35.323
He had, didn't even have food or water to keep them, but imagine waiting for that long, and there's no cell phones, obviously, there's no, like, you know, communication, there's no letters, there's nothing, and you basically have to, Hope for the best and hope that your family isn't one of the people who, were lost, in the journey or, or like, for the folks who in their village, like, you know, resisted and didn't want to leave their homes, like, you know, they were killed.
00:15:35.354 --> 00:15:39.033
So, it was, pretty, crazy.
00:15:39.094 --> 00:15:53.724
And when I think about You know, just that, just that little instance, like one part of that entire journey, which again, this is just in 1967 and, there's generations that happened to like where I got here, it makes me just think of first of all, how lucky I have to be here.
00:15:53.724 --> 00:15:59.813
And I think it only increases my sense of obligation for like, what, what can I do to, make the situation better for, for my
00:15:59.813 --> 00:16:00.413
people?
00:16:00.724 --> 00:16:02.774
Yeah, thank you for sharing that story.
00:16:02.803 --> 00:16:06.144
I think what's bizarre to me is that that's happening even today.
00:16:06.543 --> 00:16:29.609
Like, the exact story you mentioned and so, I guess the follow up question I have about that is, you hear these stories about your parents, your grandparents, and It can lead to a lot of, like, intergenerational trauma Have you ever identified aspects of your life where you're like, Oh, I think I feel this way because I'm Palestinian, or I feel this way because it might be coming from what my great grandparents have experienced?
00:16:29.609 --> 00:16:31.428
And how does that make you feel as a Palestinian?
00:16:32.109 --> 00:17:10.503
regardless of where you're from, or even where your family's from, Like, hearing injustices and, and like, you know, see, knowing about this kind of stuff should make anybody who cares about, you know, justice upset and like, you know, and I think it, you know, being Palestinian obviously hurts, even more, like seeing your own family, like people that you love, like one of my friends, Omar, from the Bay Area, I'm actually going to be putting out a fundraiser on my story soon for him, so, you know, look out for that, but he lost, you know, 23 members of his family in a single airstrike, spanning four generations from six months old to 92 years old from a single airstrike just in the past couple weeks.
00:17:11.513 --> 00:17:15.584
And the only survivor is from, you know, the Wrecked family is his 10 year old cousin.
00:17:15.909 --> 00:17:21.568
Who now doesn't have parents, doesn't have grandparents, you know, doesn't have, siblings, like, is by himself.
00:17:22.598 --> 00:17:47.233
so, when you, when you hear about something like that, like, how can you continue with the rest of your day not thinking about it even when I was talking to my family in Palestine, like, I couldn't help but get emotional over the phone and they were the ones comforting me, which if you think about it is kind of almost like, you know, backwards, like I'm the one here who's like privileged and safe while they're the ones who are in the in the heat of everything.
00:17:47.284 --> 00:18:01.368
I think, in some sense, it goes to show their strength and resilience and like, they felt that they needed to comfort me, but at the same time, it makes it really hard knowing that that's happening and I can't really do anything about it, like, in the short term.
00:18:01.398 --> 00:18:08.288
I know in the past you've sort of done many trips back to Palestine to help the youth through education.
00:18:08.328 --> 00:18:16.019
And right now you're also helping sort of with some, some cases, for Palestinians that are raising their voice in the United States and facing repercussions.
00:18:16.469 --> 00:18:20.528
Can you maybe share a bit more about what you're doing in either experiences?
00:18:21.078 --> 00:18:21.719
Yeah, I think.
00:18:22.098 --> 00:18:28.409
The important thing to realize is like, like you mentioned, like to do what we can and keep in mind that this is like a marathon, not a sprint.
00:18:28.409 --> 00:18:33.068
So I think when I think about the whole issue Palestinians are living under occupation.
00:18:33.088 --> 00:18:36.699
And, like, for example, the unemployment rate in Gaza is over 80%.
00:18:37.318 --> 00:18:40.459
And it's not like they're uneducated people.
00:18:40.459 --> 00:18:41.038
They're actually.
00:18:41.358 --> 00:18:44.618
Some of the brightest and most educated people that I've ever met.
00:18:44.659 --> 00:18:51.778
And when I go to work with them, I'm surprised and shocked at the lack of opportunity that they have for the amount of talent that they have.
00:18:51.878 --> 00:18:52.868
So, I think.
00:18:53.804 --> 00:19:09.493
Step one is basically giving them an oxygen mask so we can, they can take care of themselves instead of having to rely, because a lot of the aid in general in the areas, you know, symptom based or symptom focused, and I think it's important to have that kind of relief, but long term I don't think it's going to get us out of like the hole that we're in.
00:19:09.503 --> 00:19:10.058
So I think.
00:19:10.459 --> 00:19:24.689
You know, building up, education, helping people get opportunities like, you know, where they can actually take care of themselves and their whole family, making the entire society as a whole grow so that we can take care of each other and, and, and build each other up.
00:19:24.739 --> 00:19:32.919
First of all the Middle East is the only region in the entire world, like, including Palestine, where there are more women than men studying computer science.
00:19:32.929 --> 00:19:38.888
a lot of the reason that they do it is because they love it and it makes them feel independent and it makes them feel, it's empowering.
00:19:38.888 --> 00:19:41.098
So that's one reason I really, like, you know, value it.
00:19:41.588 --> 00:19:43.489
Two is the really high youth unemployment rate.
00:19:43.509 --> 00:19:53.419
Actually, the youth unemployment rate in the Middle East is, like, overall on average is double that of, even the, the second, highest region, which is Sub Saharan Africa, for youth unemployment.
00:19:53.719 --> 00:20:09.828
So there's a lot of, Educated young people who don't have anything to do and, and like, you know, are living under occupation, basically, applications to CS programs over the past five years have increased 20x, in Palestine, and part of that is because, people are starting to see the value that, and the potential that it has.
00:20:09.828 --> 00:20:09.903
Thank you.
00:20:10.364 --> 00:20:26.223
And like the things that they can do because I've seen all kinds of like really cool creations, like even from some of the students that I've taught myself, I had two students who worked together who created this app that could tell you, just by pointing your camera, like your phone camera at your skin, whether or not, yeah.
00:20:26.463 --> 00:20:30.554
You know, a specific mark on your skin is high or low risk of skin cancer.
00:20:30.844 --> 00:20:40.604
they did that just from the skills and experience that they had from studying computer science and the other guy had some experience in the medical field and they worked together to build that app.
00:20:40.604 --> 00:20:47.604
Things like that are amazing and I think that there's plenty of potential for building things that, you know, the barrier to entry is low.
00:20:47.604 --> 00:20:52.723
So that's scratching the surface of like how I see the long term vision of it going.
00:20:52.723 --> 00:21:00.743
But I think the idea is it's basically helping the Palestinian people, take care of themselves and having to rely on others and like building independence for them as a whole.
00:21:01.094 --> 00:21:18.213
I think it's important to think about the short term things like, you know, raising awareness and like, you know, donating to some of these, things that help in the short term, but also, ask yourself the critical question of like, what, where am I, you know, uniquely capable and, set up to do something that will help long term.
00:21:18.273 --> 00:21:32.034
And, you know, these are things that can scale to because even the work that we're doing in Palestine, like it's gotten some attention, at work, like, at Facebook, Facebook actually sponsored one of the trips that we had to go teach in Gaza and they paid for it and they got all the permits and everything.
00:21:32.054 --> 00:21:39.663
And, it was such a success that even other, leaders in the partnership teams that partner with, you know, different regions.
00:21:40.114 --> 00:22:16.243
Wanted to do the same thing in Sub Saharan Africa and other places and We were more than happy to help and like set up the playbook and all that kind of stuff And I think that going forward we're going to need to see more of that Solidarity across the board whether it's an efforts like these or on the ground Like I think one of my favorite memories ever was when I was at the BLM protests in San Francisco And I was wearing my keffiyeh, which is like a Palestinian scarf one of the signs of resistance and The amount of people that came to me and just said, you know, Hey man, free Palestine, or, Hey Ben, thanks for being here and like, giving me a hug or like a pat on the back was, was something that was like really warming and made me feel like we're all in this together.
00:22:16.334 --> 00:22:19.183
And I think that's like one of the feelings that we, we should all feel.
00:22:19.183 --> 00:22:26.318
And, and, one of the things that will make us, help us all as like marginalized people and, and people who, whose voices are not heard as much to get heard.
00:22:26.989 --> 00:22:28.098
That's so important.
00:22:28.098 --> 00:22:37.844
So I just wanna summarize everything you said It's, the way you described it is there's like a sprint and a marathon way of thinking about it, and in terms of a marathon, you know, there's so many things you can do.
00:22:38.263 --> 00:22:44.614
For example, the thing you mentioned about Palestine with so many women going into computer science, like that blows my mind.
00:22:45.153 --> 00:22:48.659
The fact that it's the highest in the country, like that's insane.
00:22:48.659 --> 00:22:51.074
In the world, like that's insane.
00:22:51.074 --> 00:23:08.122
And so like As individuals, a lot of us who do work in tech, like I know you've mentioned this in the past, like being able to go there and also teach people or like even remotely be able to teach people or putting in the effort to like, particularly hire Palestinian people could go a long way to create that example.
00:23:08.382 --> 00:23:10.612
And then in terms of a sprint.
00:23:10.846 --> 00:23:17.376
Right now, really just continuing to elevate the voices of Palestinians and ensuring that you're educating people around you.
00:23:17.376 --> 00:23:21.356
You want to speak a bit more about what are those things that require education at the moment?
00:23:22.227 --> 00:23:23.916
Yeah, I think there are a few things.
00:23:25.017 --> 00:23:29.086
the, the biggest one is to understand that, you know, this is not like a religious conflict.
00:23:29.086 --> 00:23:33.477
This is not, something where like there's two sides having a war.
00:23:33.527 --> 00:23:34.676
It's not a war.
00:23:34.686 --> 00:23:35.027
There's.
00:23:35.672 --> 00:24:00.632
A big asymmetry of power, and this is like a human rights issue and, an injustice against like all of humanity And I want to make it really clear to that, criticism of Israel or Of, a lot of the atrocities and war crimes and, you know, Geneva Conventions, laws that are being broken and, you know, UN human rights violations that are, you know, recognized by the entire world and almost every single country in the world.
00:24:00.801 --> 00:24:18.551
that, that is not anti Semitic and equating it to anti Semitism is actually harmful to not just Muslims, but, Jews as well, like, it's, it's really not okay to me when I see people, saying that, oh, this is like a religious conflict, a religious conflict, or that, like, somebody speaks up about it and they, you know, get, get labeled.
00:24:18.771 --> 00:24:31.297
I think one of the things that, is, is good to look at is, The response from a lot of these communities and the solidarity between the communities and, anybody in my local community and the people around me and everyone I talk to is going to stand up and say any of these injustices are wrong.
00:24:31.576 --> 00:24:39.717
Anti Semitism is a real problem and it happens in a lot of places and I think that, you know, it kind of hurts the idea to say that.
00:24:40.122 --> 00:24:47.112
criticism of, you know, a government that's committing human rights violations is anti Semitic because, you know, that's definitely not the case.
00:24:47.162 --> 00:24:53.757
I think, understanding that, you know, Palestinians aren't just Arabs and Muslims like they're they're Christians.
00:24:53.777 --> 00:24:55.977
Like I said, there's indigenous like Afro Palestinians.
00:24:56.017 --> 00:24:58.636
There's all kinds of people that are affected by this.
00:24:58.987 --> 00:25:04.527
I also want to, you know, say that, those groups have lived together in harmony for a really long time.
00:25:04.527 --> 00:25:15.386
Like, I have stories from from friendly friends and family from 1904 in Haifa, which is in northwest, the northwest part of Palestine, and it's now occupied.
00:25:15.747 --> 00:25:19.826
By Israel and, in their neighborhood, there was Jews and Christians and Muslims coming together.
00:25:19.826 --> 00:25:25.876
And on, on Friday, when the Muslims would go to the mosque, they would leave their kids with their Jewish neighbors.
00:25:25.896 --> 00:25:30.027
And on Saturday, when the Jews would go to the synagogue, they would leave their kids with their Muslim neighbors.
00:25:30.067 --> 00:25:37.067
And that was how people lived, you know, in Palestine in the 1900s before everything happened after World War II.
00:25:37.247 --> 00:25:39.317
and I think, that's...
00:25:40.862 --> 00:25:45.412
a really important thing to, contextualize that, this was never a religious conflict.
00:25:45.412 --> 00:25:48.061
This was never like a, you know, a war.
00:25:48.082 --> 00:25:53.531
It's just a, another story of colonialism that, you know, it's a repeat of history.
00:25:54.092 --> 00:25:59.731
I want to maybe switch the discussion a bit to more of a more positive point of being Palestinian.
00:26:00.031 --> 00:26:06.652
a lot of people these days are just getting to hear about all the, you know, the atrocities that are happening in the region.
00:26:06.672 --> 00:26:11.912
And what I would love to hear from you is what do you love about being Palestinian?
00:26:11.912 --> 00:26:14.481
Like, can you tell us about the culture and what you love about it?
00:26:14.866 --> 00:26:18.537
I think some of the most amazing parts were that it kind of defined a lot of my growing up.
00:26:18.626 --> 00:26:25.846
for example, when I was going through some of the toughest things that, I didn't let it, ever break my spirit or make me like not want to do it.
00:26:25.846 --> 00:26:29.586
And I actually think the more adversity I faced or the more people telling I couldn't do it.
00:26:29.987 --> 00:26:31.957
the more, driven I was to do it.
00:26:32.017 --> 00:26:39.017
think that's one of the things that I love about being Palestinian is like hearing stories and growing up with family and seeing how they act, you know, facing adversity.
00:26:39.406 --> 00:26:50.298
It completely changes your perspective what drives you and like how you deal with adversity and, it helps, it helped me build that like unbreakable spirit that I talk about, you know, about the Palestinian identity There's a lot of other things too, obviously, like, you know, food and.
00:26:50.874 --> 00:26:55.483
You know, amazing sites and places to see and culture and, you know, dance and clothing and those kind of things.
00:26:55.854 --> 00:27:08.644
And all those things are really nice, but they're like, play a secondary role compared to like the core identity, of having this unbreakable spirit and, you know, not letting anybody take your identity and your, history away from you.
00:27:08.644 --> 00:27:23.614
on that note, knowing that a lot of Palestinians, have either migrated abroad or lived in different Arab countries, and returned home, You basically Palestinians are in different places and identity must have evolved over time, even for you kind of growing up in D.
00:27:23.614 --> 00:27:23.943
C.
00:27:23.943 --> 00:27:27.713
And in the States, how much of the core culture has stuck around?
00:27:27.713 --> 00:27:32.673
And how do you think the identity of being Palestinian has evolved for those people that live abroad?
00:27:33.314 --> 00:27:34.713
so I'll give you an example.
00:27:35.023 --> 00:27:37.294
A protest that I was that in D.
00:27:37.294 --> 00:27:37.644
C.
00:27:38.153 --> 00:27:55.489
there was a speaker who came and said how you They were older and they said, when I was a kid and I was, in my teens and twenties and I was at these protests, like in DC, they used to tell us that, Oh, like you're the young generation, like, this is still fresh in their minds.
00:27:55.519 --> 00:28:02.209
And, you know, when you grow up and you have your kids and they have their kids, like people are going to forget about Palestine and, you know, we're just going to just move on with their life.
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:08.449
And like the protest that we were at was like five times as good as any protest that she ever went to growing up.
00:28:08.558 --> 00:28:18.368
And I think, The one way that has evolved over time is that um, you know, it's the exact opposite effect of what you would expect to happen would happen.
00:28:18.368 --> 00:28:26.798
it's kind of counterintuitive because as you move further away and you get further away and you have this distance and you have these barriers, like you can't, sometimes some people can't even visit their family.
00:28:26.798 --> 00:28:37.347
a lot of those experiences and, that unbreakable spirit, to me, that's one of the most interesting ways that it has evolved is that the Palestinian identity has only become stronger with time.
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:44.079
And, you know, the more and more it's attempted to be erased, the more resilient it becomes.
00:28:48.805 --> 00:28:49.275
All right.
00:28:49.305 --> 00:28:51.625
Well, those are all the questions we had.
00:28:51.664 --> 00:28:56.545
if people have any more questions, just send them to fake ID podcast, or you can message late directly.
00:28:56.595 --> 00:28:57.765
Do you have any final thoughts, Leith?
00:28:57.785 --> 00:29:00.224
I wanted to give a quick plug to the Fake ID Podcast.
00:29:00.224 --> 00:29:00.815
It's amazing.
00:29:00.865 --> 00:29:00.954
Oh.
00:29:01.555 --> 00:29:05.464
It's about identity in general, and I think Meehim does a great job of capturing that.
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:07.269
for all, all different kinds of people.
00:29:07.309 --> 00:29:10.150
So I've listened to a bunch of episodes and I love it.
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.210
So, you know, there's a lot of other cool stuff to check out too.
00:29:13.210 --> 00:29:16.910
So make sure you, you give me some support and, fake ID podcast.
00:29:17.430 --> 00:29:18.259
Yeah.
00:29:18.380 --> 00:29:18.759
Thank you.
00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:19.329
Lays.
00:29:20.730 --> 00:29:21.190
All right.
00:29:21.509 --> 00:29:22.160
Bye everyone.
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:23.900
Bye.
00:29:24.579 --> 00:29:24.829
Bye.
00:29:27.443 --> 00:29:49.403
I don't know about you, but listening to this episode that was recorded maybe three years ago in 2024, listening to it now, it just makes me shake my head because you realize nothing has changed and yet everything has gotten worse.
00:29:53.364 --> 00:30:32.439
I think more than ever, we all need to play a very significant role in learning about the past and every single injustice that has happened in Palestine so we can tell the story so we can continue to share the voices and the stories of not just today but the past generations because the world needs to remember what has happened and the world needs to remember who Palestinians are The world needs to see it.
00:30:33.098 --> 00:30:34.729
The world needs to experience it.
00:30:37.159 --> 00:30:45.328
And I hope all of you understand the responsibility that you and I play in that.
00:30:48.608 --> 00:30:50.118
Thank you for listening to Fake ID.
00:30:51.078 --> 00:30:58.719
If you like Fake ID, please consider subscribing to us on wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, or follow us on Fake ID Podcasts on Instagram.
00:30:59.388 --> 00:31:01.528
And I will see you in the next episode.
00:31:02.338 --> 00:31:02.618
Bye.
