Leading with Authenticity Through Change | Hayley Huls

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Welcome to another episode of Faith Driven Leadership.
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Really excited to have a guest with me today, Haley Holes.
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Haley, good to have you with me.
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Thanks for having me.
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I'm happy to be here.
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Yeah.
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I've known Haley for a few years, and one thing I really appreciate about Haley is that she's been in leadership at different levels.
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Um, I've just seen you on different teams and different things, but then over the last year or two, you've actually been stepped into a management role.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so you're managing a team of about six, six to eight people.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so really, really excited to have you on today to hear how that journey has been, and just connecting that faith and work walk together, and what that's looked like.
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So I ask everybody really the same question.
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Just tell us a little bit about yourself and what got you to this place in your life.
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Yeah.
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Well, I, um, was raised in a Christian home, so my faith has been integral to my entire life.
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Hmm.
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And I've always known that I want to work in some position that lets me serve people well.
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So I ended up at a faith-based organization.
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Mm-hmm.
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I've been there about six years.
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Okay.
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And started kind of on the ground level, um, entry-level.
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It was really my first office job ever, actually.
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And over these six years, I've been given the opportunity to step into more and more responsibility and take ownership for more and more things.
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Hmm.
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Until now, being in a management position- Yeah and managing my own team.
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So it's been a really incredible journey so far, and I've been really blessed to work with like-minded people- Yeah and be given an opportunity to grow in that setting.
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Yeah.
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Exciting.
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Yeah.
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So just looking back, you mentioned six years at this current place.
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Mm-hmm.
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And that kind of has been formidable for you.
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Mm-hmm.
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Um, is there any experiences that really shaped your leadership and m- just mindset of leadership and management?
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Yeah.
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Something that really impacted my leadership journey, something that kind of was a catalyst, was, um, I had started to realize that I felt I was outgrowing the position that I had been in.
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Yeah.
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And I was really honest with my manager, who had been my manager basically the entire time.
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So we had a really good working relationship.
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Mm-hmm.
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And she knew me really well.
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So when I voiced that, she responded immediately- Mm-hmm and started thinking of things to give me, and ways to prepare me for future leadership.
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So she started thinking creatively, and really went out of her way to train me in things that I could own, give me opportunities to lead people on my team that I was- Hmm peers with.
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Um, so I hadn't done that before, and that was a huge step forward- Yeah toward leadership.
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Well, one of my next question was w- anybody that actually impacted your leadership- Yeah would have been this person, I assume.
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It would have been her.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So- It's, I'm guessing maybe because you talked about this was one of your first jobs- Mm-hmm and one of your first leadership jobs, that you assume or that that is normal.
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Um, that isn't normal, actually.
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I've just, I can tell you firsthand that- Mm a lot of times when somebody comes to their boss and says,"Hey, how can I help?" Or,"I think I'm reaching a ceiling," that kind of has a negative connotation with a lot of people.
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Mm.
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I mean, you may have seen that in other places as well.
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What, what was different and what, any thoughts on what set you up so that you actually could model that- Mm in, with your people?
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Yeah.
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I think the culture of the organization- Okay had a huge hand in that, the fact that everybody was on the same page with growing and- Mm-hmm wanting to serve, wanting to continue developing.
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Um, there was a culture of professional development- Okay which really set the tone.
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So then when I approached her and she listened and she responded quickly-
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Hmm
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um, her investment in me really allowed me to take advantage- Yeah of that professional development culture.
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Okay.
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And I had watched her go through steps to- Okay toward professional development herself.
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Yeah.
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Mm.
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So seeing that she had a, a mind toward that for herself-
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Mm
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gave me confidence that I could approach her and she would respond- Yeah in the same way, and she did.
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Okay.
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So the culture that you're talking about really impacted you.
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You were, um, able to observe it and be part of it.
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Mm-hmm.
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And it sounded like that impacted quite a few people.
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Mm-hmm.
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I'm curious, did everybody take advantage?
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I hear, you know, different cultures, people have different cultures at different places they work, good or bad- Mm or neutral.
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Um, this, part of this culture sounds like it was leadership development focused.
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Mm-hmm.
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Uh, a lot of people might hear that and be like,"Oh, everybody did leadership development." True?
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False?
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Maybe?
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I think everybody had the opportunity- Okay to pursue it, but not everybody did.
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Okay.
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Um, I think something that I've been learning as I've been pursuing this is there are some people who are never going to be satisfied with where they're at, and they're always going to want to grow and improve- Hmm and take a step forward, and seek out any opportunity- Yeah they can to do that, and I, I fall in that group.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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But there are others who are happy right where they're at.
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Yeah.
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And maybe they've taken some steps forward, but they've reached a certain threshold- Hmm and they're, and they're content there.
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Yeah,
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yeah.
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So even if-
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Okay
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the opportunities are there, they're not necessarily inclined to pursue them.
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No, that's good.
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Um, I'm thinking of, I've talked to managers and leaders that are s- uh, frustrated- Mm-hmm with employees that don't want to grow.
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Mm-hmm.
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I have been there.
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Mm-hmm.
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Um, and it...
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I have felt like,"Why don't they...
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What, what's missing here?
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Am I not pushing enough?" Mm-hmm.
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"Am I not providing enough, or are they not motivated?" And I've come to realize some people just are not driven in that way.
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They're driven in other ways maybe.
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Mm-hmm.
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Um, how have you balanced that on your team?
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'Cause I, I'm guessing the culture is still there to learn and grow.
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Mm-hmm.
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But you have different employees that maybe aren't as excited to learn and grow.
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Mm-hmm.
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Different stages of life as well.
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Yeah.
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Um, but you could have someone that's in their 20s and wants to grow or not grow, and someone in their 50s that wants to grow and not grow.
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Yeah.
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So yeah, how have you...
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In your...
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You've been in management for a few years now, so this is a short stint, but you've had to deal with this, I'm guessing.
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Yeah, and I've also had quite a bit of turnover on my team.
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Okay.
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So I've worked with lots of different people.
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Yeah.
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And I have started to notice, you know, there are some who are really hungry for it.
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Hmm.
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And when I offer it, because it's important to me- Yeah they grab onto that, and they run with it, and they take initiative there.
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Yeah.
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And there are others who say,"Oh, that's great.
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Thank you so much." Yeah.
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And they maybe wanna take advantage of that, but then they don't take any steps forward, and I'm kind of the one pushing that forward.
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And I've had to learn I can't force that.
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Yeah.
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And if they're gonna grow, it's gonna be because they want to- Hmm and they're asking for it- Yeah and they're hungry for it.
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You, you don't have to answer this in detail.
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I'm just curious, have you seen the people that don't want to grow, um, disappointed if they're passed over for projects?
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Mm.
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Or do you think they generally accept that?
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'Cause I've had a little bit of both.
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Mm-hmm.
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But I've had a tendency where people don't want to grow, but then they get upset when they get passed over for a, a, a, a position increase, or they get passed over for not given a project lead.
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Mm.
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Um, have you had any experience with that?
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Has that been something or not really?
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I
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haven't.
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Okay.
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Thankfully.
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Good.
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I have a very gracious team.
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Great.
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Um- That's great but I could certainly see how that would be-
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Yeah
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a challenge.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I've just seen that.
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It, not extremes necessarily, but it can be a,"I don't wanna grow right now, but I still want the- Mm-hmm to move up," and all that.
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So good.
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It's a balance as leaders where we have to balance that out.
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Mm-hmm.
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And not hold it against the person- Right like you said, so.
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Yeah.
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Um, was there, is there a point where...
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You know, this is Faith Driven Leadership is the name of the podcast.
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Mm-hmm.
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Is there a point in your journey, your life, where faith really began to influence the way you led-
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Mm
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or the way you lead now?
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Yeah.
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Well, like I mentioned earlier, faith has been integral to my- Mm entire life.
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I mean, this has motivated everything that I say and do.
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But something that I realized as I was stepping into leadership and stepping into management is I actually had a pretty serious disconnect.
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Um, I had noticed that I thought about my role in local church ministry, even just in lay ministry, very differently than in the workplace- Mm even though it's a Christian workplace.
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Sure.
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And I felt a lot of hesitancy to ask for opportunities to grow and ask for more, because it felt vain, and it felt- Mm arrogant, and it felt entitled.
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And I have never felt that in a local church ministry context.
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The mindset there has always been do whatever you can, and if- Mm there's more to be done, go in and do it, and ask for more, and serve as much as you can.
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So that disconnect that I identified actually held me back for a while from stepping into leadership, and I really had to work through a theology of work, essentially- Mm and understanding that all that I do in work and in ministry and in recreation and anything that I do, I'm doing for the Lord, and I'm doing through His strength and His power.
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And if he's giving me gifts to use, and I'm not using them because- Mm-hmm it feels prideful to use them, then I have a serious misunderstanding of- Yeah the gifts that he's given and how he's calling me to use them.
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Mm.
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So I really had to work through that.
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So it was right around the start of leadership and management- Okay that those things started falling into place.
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Mm.
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It's interesting that at, at both faith-based, but at one place you felt- Mm-hmm"Hey, let's do it all and keep going," and the other one it's like, how does, what does this disconnect look like?
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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So it's been a journey for you.
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Um, has that affected also, like, your view of success?
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Mm.
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Um, at, in both situations or in your current role now?
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Yeah.
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I think I didn't necessarily have a definition of success in local church ministry.
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Um, at least not personal success.
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Mm-hmm.
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Maybe ministry success or- Sure event success or something like that.
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But I didn't have any sense of personal success or accomplishment.
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So when I was trying to bridge that gap, that was one of the things I identified.
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There's no personal goal or success or achievement in the local church ministry context, but there is in the workplace.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I think that was the piece that felt more prideful- Interesting.
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Yeah is I'm trying to pursue personal goals.
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Mm.
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It's for my own gain.
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Mm.
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And though it is objectively for my benefit and for my gain, it is not ultimately that.
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That's not why- Yeah I'm pursuing that.
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But I had to really work that out before- Yeah I could recognize it.
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So let's say there's a 25 to 35-year-old woman or man who's listening to this who's newer in management, newer in leadership.
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Mm-hmm.
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Uh, a person of faith, but just struggling with what you just talked about- Mm which is, I want to be excellent, but is that pride?
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Mm-hmm.
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Um, the Bible talks about you shouldn't be prideful.
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Mm-hmm.
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People take that out of the context sometimes.
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Um, there's a good, and, you know, does it bring honor to God?
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Any, any thoughts or advice you would give them in how y- how to transition that mindset- Mm from, as you said, everything is to glorify God, even our personal development.
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Mm-hmm.
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That in my opinion.
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Mm-hmm.
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So thoughts on that that you could give, or what has helped you?
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Yeah.
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Honestly, slowing down- Mm and praying through the scriptures- Mm and saying,"Lord, you have called certain people to certain things." Mm.
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And some of them are doing really great things, and there are so many people throughout the scriptures who are called to greater and higher things, but not for their own glory.
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Yeah.
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They're doing it because the Lord is calling them to it- Mm and he's equipping them for it.
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Mm.
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And if the Lord is calling me, if he's calling you to a position of leadership, if he's calling you to step into something bigger or greater or take on more responsibility, it's because he's particularly gifted you, and he wants to use those gifts in that setting to serve those people and to move forward his mission.
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So who are you to say that- You're being prideful by trying to grab onto that if he's laying it before you and asking you to step out in faith to pursue it Yeah I, I have to be a little mean to myself.
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So I have to, I have to come at myself with the,"Who are you to say that?"
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Sure
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Who are you to go against the Lord's will there?" No, that's
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good.
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I appreciate that.
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I, I've mentioned several times to, to clients that I have that we have to talk to ourselves Mm-hmm Audibly at times, I think.
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Mm-hmm.
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Be- not just sit in a room and talk to yourself.
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But- uh, there is this mental mind game in our head that gives us negative thoughts- Mm-hmm and we need to bring in the positive thoughts.
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No, I can appreciate that, is that you're right.
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In scripture, um, and all through time- Mm-hmm God puts, ordains people to be in different positions.
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And so are we in the right position?
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Mm-hmm.
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Yes.
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Um, should we pursue more, uh, higher positions?
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Potentially.
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That's a prayer point.
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But also then accepting whatever that is and learning to be the best we can in that position.
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Yeah.
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That's what I encourage people, is to be the best you can in that position.
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Mm-hmm.
00:12:40.384 --> 00:12:49.464
Um, which can be a struggle for people- Mm-hmm if they are not, um, sure that that's where God wants them, and accepting that that's where they are supposed to be.
00:12:50.354 --> 00:12:57.303
Um, well, as you moved into more management, leadership of a team, that's a lot of stress.
00:12:57.323 --> 00:12:58.374
Can be stressful.
00:12:58.374 --> 00:12:58.394
Mm-hmm.
00:12:58.403 --> 00:12:59.114
Not a lot of stress.
00:12:59.114 --> 00:13:08.423
It can be stressful because it's a new paradigm shift of what's happening, um, just in versus, uh, theoretical and doing some leadership to now being responsible for people.
00:13:08.433 --> 00:13:09.033
Mm-hmm.
00:13:09.063 --> 00:13:19.053
Um, how have you found ways to remain spiritually healthy- Mm-hmm personally, um, dealing with, let's just, we'll say different stressors that come- Mm-hmm with being a leader?
00:13:19.833 --> 00:13:22.884
Well, it's certainly been a steep learning curve- Okay if I'm being honest.
00:13:22.984 --> 00:13:26.464
Um, there have been lots of stressors, even outside of management.
00:13:26.474 --> 00:13:26.504
Mm-hmm.
00:13:26.614 --> 00:13:31.474
So that has been something that I've really had to work for and be intentional in.
00:13:31.953 --> 00:13:38.594
So some of the things that I've done include keeping my Bible and keeping a prayer book at my desk at work.
00:13:38.594 --> 00:13:39.043
Mm-hmm.
00:13:39.043 --> 00:13:45.043
And any time I look over and think of it, I just take a second and I read and I pray, and it takes all of two minutes.
00:13:45.053 --> 00:13:45.073
Yeah.
00:13:45.464 --> 00:13:48.274
But I do that frequently throughout the day- Yeah because it's right there.
00:13:48.274 --> 00:13:49.014
Mm-hmm.
00:13:49.014 --> 00:13:56.053
And I write things down on sticky notes and post them up everywhere, um, little excerpts from a passage that I read or a line from a prayer.
00:13:56.433 --> 00:13:56.504
That's nice.
00:13:56.504 --> 00:14:01.744
So I try to keep things really visible and keep them in front of me to remind myself- Mm-hmm to be prayerful throughout the day.
00:14:02.303 --> 00:14:06.744
And then another thing is intentionally praying for the members of my team.
00:14:06.754 --> 00:14:06.774
Mm-hmm.
00:14:07.333 --> 00:14:15.423
And taking the time to invest in their health and their spiritual life and their professional development and their wellbeing at work.
00:14:15.653 --> 00:14:15.673
Yeah.
00:14:15.683 --> 00:14:33.693
Taking the time to sit and pray for them and ask the Lord for wisdom in how to lead them well keeps me connected to the Lord every step of the way, even as the stressors of managing people and managing six different people at a time, um, even as those stressors creep in and try to block all of that out.
00:14:33.703 --> 00:14:33.724
Yeah.
00:14:33.734 --> 00:14:34.744
That keeps me connected.
00:14:34.943 --> 00:14:35.333
That's good.
00:14:36.234 --> 00:14:37.774
Yeah, and it ties back to what you mentioned earlier.
00:14:37.774 --> 00:14:39.403
If God has put you in a role-
00:14:39.413 --> 00:14:39.524
Mm-hmm
00:14:39.874 --> 00:14:40.974
He will equip you.
00:14:40.994 --> 00:14:41.124
Mm-hmm.
00:14:41.413 --> 00:14:46.594
Many of us, at times, we all fall into the trap of,"Well, I'm in this role, now it's my turn to do it."
00:14:46.754 --> 00:14:47.073
Mm-hmm.
00:14:47.124 --> 00:14:48.374
And I need to do it all."
00:14:48.453 --> 00:14:48.813
Mm-hmm.
00:14:48.833 --> 00:14:51.974
And we lose track that, well, if God put us here, He will sustain us.
00:14:51.974 --> 00:14:52.114
Mm-hmm.
00:14:52.114 --> 00:14:53.183
And we have to check in.
00:14:53.803 --> 00:14:58.474
No, I appreciate the prayer for the employees and, and encouraging them and understanding where they are.
00:14:59.285 --> 00:15:03.735
What's one of the hardest leadership lessons you've learned over these last couple years?
00:15:04.355 --> 00:15:04.826
Yeah.
00:15:05.405 --> 00:15:20.316
I think one of the lessons that has come from hard times is an instability or lack of clarity due to organizational change- Mm at the very top levels of the organization has an exponential impact on the lower levels.
00:15:20.745 --> 00:15:28.586
And in my management role, I sit right in the middle, and I'm advocating for leadership to my team and for my team to leadership.
00:15:28.586 --> 00:15:29.096
Mm.
00:15:29.096 --> 00:15:44.716
And in a time when there's a lot of instability and change and turnover- Mm things are happening, it can be really challenging to try to provide stability and safety and clarity for your team members- Mm because you don't even have it yourself.
00:15:45.216 --> 00:15:52.275
So one of the- Yeah things that I've been learning is how to be really honest without necessarily being totally transparent.
00:15:52.765 --> 00:15:55.115
They don't need all the details, but they need honesty.
00:15:55.166 --> 00:15:55.176
Mm.
00:15:55.176 --> 00:16:05.155
And they need to know, my team, need to know enough of what's going on and how I'm interacting with it- Mm and where they stand to feel okay.
00:16:05.225 --> 00:16:05.446
Yeah.
00:16:05.655 --> 00:16:08.975
So I've been learning how to bridge that gap between leadership and my team.
00:16:08.975 --> 00:16:09.025
Mm.
00:16:09.025 --> 00:16:16.566
And then also be honest with leadership about how my team is doing- Mm and advocating for them and saying,"They're in a tough spot right now.
00:16:17.145 --> 00:16:18.775
This is something I think could help.
00:16:19.385 --> 00:16:21.105
Do I have permission to move forward with this?" Mm.
00:16:21.115 --> 00:16:28.826
"Or can I share this piece- Yeah of information with them?" And really working to bring as much stability to my team as possible- Yeah because it gets really rocky.
00:16:29.495 --> 00:16:30.086
That's huge.
00:16:30.615 --> 00:16:35.985
Well, I would just say that's a very, um That's an awesome answer, and that is the right thing to do.
00:16:35.995 --> 00:16:38.046
Unfortunately, a lot of leaders don't do that.
00:16:38.056 --> 00:16:38.066
Mm.
00:16:38.155 --> 00:16:44.552
They, um- Cower to, I just don't know, or they don't wanna take responsibility.
00:16:44.562 --> 00:16:44.572
Mm.
00:16:44.591 --> 00:16:48.461
So I appreciate that you're trying to bring clarity- Mm based on what you know.
00:16:48.562 --> 00:16:49.032
Mm-hmm.
00:16:49.261 --> 00:16:51.981
And, and it is, you're at w- in middle management.
00:16:52.101 --> 00:16:52.162
Mm-hmm.
00:16:52.172 --> 00:16:56.532
It's, um, challenging because you only have, you never have all the information.
00:16:56.542 --> 00:16:56.562
Yeah.
00:16:56.951 --> 00:17:00.802
Um, but you have enough to, quote unquote,"be dangerous," right?
00:17:00.812 --> 00:17:00.841
Sure.
00:17:00.841 --> 00:17:02.341
I mean, to be able to pass information on.
00:17:02.831 --> 00:17:09.352
So it does take that courage to step up, and so how has that been res- how have you seen that?
00:17:09.352 --> 00:17:15.041
So in your, in the organization with change in general, um, not looking for anything positive or negative about the organization.
00:17:15.041 --> 00:17:15.061
Mm.
00:17:15.061 --> 00:17:20.511
But in general, um, uh, was that consistent from other managers, or have you witnessed where it hasn't been?
00:17:20.571 --> 00:17:24.211
What, where my point is, what have you seen happen if it isn't done well?
00:17:24.211 --> 00:17:24.301
Mm.
00:17:24.301 --> 00:17:24.422
Mm.
00:17:24.442 --> 00:17:28.102
And what have, what has been a positive outcome for you being able to talk to your team?
00:17:28.511 --> 00:17:30.001
I'm sure everybody still has questions.
00:17:30.271 --> 00:17:31.332
Mm-hmm.
00:17:31.332 --> 00:17:36.082
But has it helped them, um, just grasp the situation better?
00:17:36.082 --> 00:17:37.622
Or what's been a positive outcome of that?
00:17:37.862 --> 00:17:38.271
Yeah.
00:17:38.321 --> 00:17:43.352
I think a positive outcome is my team has stayed really unified- Okay in spirit.
00:17:43.652 --> 00:17:55.942
We have been in the trenches together, and I think my attempts to bring stability and my encouragement toward them to continue digging in with each other- Mm supporting each other, they've really taken that to heart.
00:17:55.951 --> 00:17:55.981
Okay.
00:17:56.392 --> 00:17:59.231
And they've really rallied around each other- Mm and around me.
00:17:59.241 --> 00:17:59.261
Yeah.
00:17:59.301 --> 00:18:00.951
They've supported me really well.
00:18:01.092 --> 00:18:01.162
That's good.
00:18:01.221 --> 00:18:02.551
Which is just-
00:18:02.821 --> 00:18:03.071
Yeah
00:18:03.261 --> 00:18:07.092
a manager's dream, and never expected and never a given.
00:18:07.602 --> 00:18:21.692
So the fact that they're so willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with each other- Mm and jump in and help each other- Yeah and encourage each other and call out wins even when things are going crazy, uh, that has been a huge sign- Yeah of positive movement.
00:18:21.701 --> 00:18:21.961
That's great.
00:18:22.332 --> 00:18:27.781
Um, but another is other people on staff look to my team to set the tone.
00:18:27.912 --> 00:18:28.162
Mm.
00:18:28.592 --> 00:18:37.041
Because we're so united and because we have such a strong team culture- Yeah I have done as much as I can to keep my team stable.
00:18:37.051 --> 00:18:37.432
Mm-hmm.
00:18:37.432 --> 00:18:44.112
I think other people on staff have seen that and come and ask my team questions and say,"Do you know what's going on?" Or- Yeah"What have you heard?" Mm.
00:18:44.122 --> 00:18:51.261
Because they, they recognize that I have trusted- Yeah my team with a certain amount, and they trust me- Mm to give them what they need.
00:18:51.521 --> 00:18:52.001
That's huge.
00:18:52.011 --> 00:18:52.041
Mm-hmm.
00:18:52.811 --> 00:18:54.511
It really, it does go both ways, doesn't it?
00:18:54.511 --> 00:18:54.571
Mm-hmm.
00:18:54.571 --> 00:18:59.882
I think that is a misnomer that m- managers think they need to protect their cards and keep all the information safe.
00:18:59.892 --> 00:18:59.902
Mm.
00:19:00.192 --> 00:19:05.261
There is some things we do need to keep safe- Mm-hmm and isn't for public, the general knowledge for employees.
00:19:05.382 --> 00:19:05.531
Yeah.
00:19:05.902 --> 00:19:16.201
But it is a trust thing, sharing as much as is necessary to give- Mm-hmm them the ability to make their own decisions- Mm and to be able to think on their own versus just controlling the information.
00:19:16.211 --> 00:19:19.402
So no, that's huge- Mm being able to, to be that guide.
00:19:19.791 --> 00:19:20.622
It is interesting.
00:19:20.622 --> 00:19:29.852
I r- was reading a book recently when it was talking about change and how change in organizations can go really bad or really, um, great.
00:19:30.172 --> 00:19:34.301
Um, but the key point in change, the root of it is fear.
00:19:34.422 --> 00:19:35.102
Mm-hmm.
00:19:35.102 --> 00:19:46.001
And people are afraid because they don't know what is not out there, what's out there, and I think that's part of what leaders, and that's what you did it sounds like, is you were able to not answer all the questions, but alleviate some of the fear-
00:19:46.031 --> 00:19:46.342
Mm
00:19:46.402 --> 00:19:47.622
by giving direction.
00:19:47.672 --> 00:19:50.352
Um, uh, is that, would you feel that was true in your case?
00:19:50.352 --> 00:19:50.711
Just- Mm-hmm.
00:19:51.162 --> 00:19:52.132
I'm not looking for you to say yes.
00:19:52.132 --> 00:19:53.112
Your, that was a great answer.
00:19:53.112 --> 00:19:55.791
But I'm just trying to thi- it, I have seen that lived out.
00:19:55.791 --> 00:19:58.352
It really is, they're not looking for all the answers.
00:19:58.352 --> 00:20:01.362
They're trying to look for what is the new baseline.
00:20:01.392 --> 00:20:01.561
Mm-hmm.
00:20:01.592 --> 00:20:02.001
I don't know.
00:20:02.162 --> 00:20:02.922
That's what I've seen.
00:20:03.301 --> 00:20:03.652
Yeah.
00:20:03.662 --> 00:20:09.061
I, I saw it as a little bit of like a life raft- Mm kinda deal.
00:20:09.632 --> 00:20:11.251
Like, hey, we're all in this together.
00:20:11.342 --> 00:20:11.471
Yeah.
00:20:11.481 --> 00:20:17.461
And this is really turbulent right now, but here's something to hold onto- Yeah and here's something to provide stability- Yeah in it.
00:20:17.461 --> 00:20:17.612
Great.
00:20:17.652 --> 00:20:23.721
And yeah, like you said, trying to do my best to- Address the fear-
00:20:23.781 --> 00:20:24.021
Mm
00:20:24.382 --> 00:20:29.142
and, and name it and say,"I know that this feels really uncertain, and I'm sure you have a lot of questions." Yeah.
00:20:29.152 --> 00:20:30.382
"I wanna hear those questions."
00:20:30.692 --> 00:20:30.892
Mm.
00:20:31.001 --> 00:20:33.751
And this is all that I can offer you right now." Mm-hmm.
00:20:33.771 --> 00:20:33.912
Yeah.
00:20:33.912 --> 00:20:38.781
"But it, I will try to get more." And, and being willing to say,"I don't have that answer right now.
00:20:39.201 --> 00:20:41.422
Let me see if I can get more information for you." Yeah.
00:20:41.672 --> 00:20:44.221
Well, good job stepping up as a leader in that situation.
00:20:44.221 --> 00:20:45.061
No, seriously, that's- Mm.
00:20:45.521 --> 00:20:47.951
It's easier to say,"Yeah, I, d- well, I don't know.
00:20:47.951 --> 00:20:53.041
We'll find out." When you, when people actually have information, but to actually share it and have the hard conversations.
00:20:53.041 --> 00:20:57.372
And as you said, your team grew more respect of you, and also others saw that.
00:20:57.382 --> 00:20:57.461
Mm-hmm.
00:20:57.511 --> 00:20:59.612
It is modeled, and people m- gravitate to that.
00:21:00.001 --> 00:21:04.011
Well, let's jive into a couple leadership insights, if that's okay.
00:21:04.021 --> 00:21:04.051
Sure.
00:21:04.051 --> 00:21:04.071
Yeah.
00:21:04.082 --> 00:21:11.721
Um, just some quick questions for you, or maybe not quick, but what are problems that you're most passionate about solving as a leader?
00:21:11.832 --> 00:21:13.801
Anything stood out this last several years for you?
00:21:14.692 --> 00:21:17.932
I think communication is a- Okay big one for me.
00:21:18.051 --> 00:21:23.251
Um, I'm a huge fan of clear and even sometimes over-communication.
00:21:23.261 --> 00:21:23.271
Mm.
00:21:23.271 --> 00:21:23.821
Okay.
00:21:23.821 --> 00:21:32.092
I think it is always better to err on the side of saying things too many times or- Mm clarifying too far-
00:21:32.102 --> 00:21:32.122
Yeah
00:21:32.182 --> 00:21:34.321
than to leave any ambiguity.
00:21:34.372 --> 00:21:34.501
Yeah.
00:21:34.852 --> 00:21:44.531
So I think some of the challenges that I've tried to address, or the problems that I've tried to address, have primarily been focused on unclear communication.
00:21:45.201 --> 00:21:48.362
So I've tried to step in and say,"This is what I'm hearing.
00:21:48.392 --> 00:21:49.801
Is this what you're saying?" Mm-hmm.
00:21:49.811 --> 00:21:56.352
Or if I'm giving a directive, asking clarifying questions at the end,"Do you feel like you have everything you need?
00:21:56.362 --> 00:21:58.261
Do you have a clear understanding of what I'm asking you to do?
00:21:58.261 --> 00:22:02.102
Do you feel like you have the authority to make the decisions and move the thing forward?
00:22:02.481 --> 00:22:06.092
Or are you gonna hit certain points where you f- you're gonna feel like you need to come ask me again?" Mm.
00:22:06.092 --> 00:22:06.102
Mm.
00:22:06.102 --> 00:22:08.122
Because I'm trying to give you ownership of this.
00:22:08.162 --> 00:22:08.182
Yeah.
00:22:08.182 --> 00:22:08.701
Yeah.
00:22:08.701 --> 00:22:14.451
So instead of running into those problems down the road, asking them on the front end,"This is my expectation." Mm.
00:22:14.961 --> 00:22:15.892
"Is that what you got?
00:22:15.932 --> 00:22:18.192
And if not, then let's parse it out a little more."
00:22:18.442 --> 00:22:19.172
No, that's huge.
00:22:20.061 --> 00:22:21.622
I assume that's been received well.
00:22:22.362 --> 00:22:22.622
Yes.
00:22:22.821 --> 00:22:31.412
And, um, no, y- yeah, I don't know what to say except clear communication is exponential.
00:22:31.561 --> 00:22:31.971
Mm-hmm.
00:22:32.001 --> 00:22:34.201
Bad communication is devastating.
00:22:34.271 --> 00:22:34.741
Mm-hmm.
00:22:34.741 --> 00:22:36.821
And I don't think many leaders realize that.
00:22:36.832 --> 00:22:36.842
Mm.
00:22:36.912 --> 00:22:38.442
So that's great you're doing that.
00:22:40.011 --> 00:22:40.021
Mm.
00:22:40.211 --> 00:22:41.342
You may give the same answer.
00:22:41.342 --> 00:22:43.382
What are leaders commonly getting wrong today?
00:22:43.392 --> 00:22:44.571
You work with other leaders.
00:22:44.582 --> 00:22:44.592
Mm.
00:22:44.592 --> 00:22:44.682
Mm.
00:22:44.682 --> 00:22:46.821
What, what are you seeing that they're commonly missing?
00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:49.730
Communication for sure
00:22:49.730 --> 00:22:49.910
Okay.
00:22:49.930 --> 00:22:51.019
Would you say that's one of the biggest?
00:22:51.049 --> 00:22:51.720
That is one.
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:51.779
Okay.
00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:52.019
Okay.
00:22:52.019 --> 00:22:55.910
I think another one is that honesty transparency piece.
00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:56.160
Hmm.
00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:02.309
Um, something that I've noticed is a desire to be transparent that maybe goes too far.
00:23:02.500 --> 00:23:02.809
Okay.
00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:09.710
Um, because they're, they trust their team, and they want their team to know, and I- I've certainly gone too far on that side and had to walk it back.
00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:09.740
Yeah.
00:23:10.410 --> 00:23:20.509
But I, I've seen that tendency, but I've then seen the flip side of that where they're so hesitant to be too transparent that, like you said, they hold all the cards- Hmm close to the chest.
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:20.930
Yeah.
00:23:20.970 --> 00:23:23.690
And that just leaves a lot of room for questions and-
00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:23.970
It does
00:23:24.250 --> 00:23:26.440
insecurity, um, in their team.
00:23:26.470 --> 00:23:32.059
So I think having to- Hmm walk that line is a challenge, but it's a really worthwhile challenge to tackle.
00:23:32.970 --> 00:23:32.990
Yeah.
00:23:33.130 --> 00:23:36.880
Is that something you just learned over the last several years, trial and error?
00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:38.170
You've seen it modeled?
00:23:38.170 --> 00:23:40.920
Just curious if anybody's watching, like, yeah- Uh-huh how, but that's great, Haley.
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:41.589
I hear you.
00:23:41.950 --> 00:23:45.789
Um,'cause we've all seen Well, I, not everybody.
00:23:45.940 --> 00:23:50.099
I have seen leaders share way too much information, and I cringe.
00:23:50.259 --> 00:23:50.450
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:23:50.450 --> 00:23:53.769
I'm in the room, and I'm like,"Okay, we're gonna be walking this one back for a long time." Mm-hmm.
00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:58.009
Um, but then I've seen other leaders- Uh, share nothing.
00:23:58.019 --> 00:23:58.039
Yeah.
00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:00.890
Like literally it's like,"So this is what's happening.
00:24:00.990 --> 00:24:02.309
Have a great day." Mm-hmm.
00:24:02.309 --> 00:24:05.940
And I'm also cringing like, okay Mm-hmm what is gonna be knocking on my door?
00:24:05.950 --> 00:24:06.319
Mm-hmm.
00:24:06.329 --> 00:24:11.069
Um, so how, any thoughts on how to ba- would you recommend for people to balance that out?
00:24:11.670 --> 00:24:12.009
Yeah.
00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:14.369
Some of it is trial and error- Yeah unfortunately.
00:24:14.509 --> 00:24:18.670
Um, and I have trialed and I have errored- Sure and I have trialed again.
00:24:19.150 --> 00:24:23.670
But I did actually see it modeled really well- Yeah by that manager that I mentioned earlier- Yeah.
00:24:23.670 --> 00:24:25.329
Great the one I worked with for a few years.
00:24:25.700 --> 00:24:37.450
I watched her navigate that- Mm and ask for wisdom from her leaders and come back to me and share,"This is, this is the most that I can share with you." Yeah, yeah.
00:24:37.450 --> 00:24:40.190
Or,"This is the most helpful that I can share with you." Yeah.
00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:54.430
Or even just saying,"I know you don't have all the information right now, but I, I want you to remember that you can trust your leadership- Hmm and you can trust the people who are making these decisions, who do have the information." Yeah.
00:24:54.740 --> 00:25:01.259
And even those pieces- Hmm those little nuggets- Yeah and those pokes at me when I'm trying to get more information- those were really helpful.
00:25:01.269 --> 00:25:01.289
Yeah.
00:25:01.670 --> 00:25:09.309
And they all kind of built up and up- Yeah and up until I realized, no, that's a really good lesson to learn- Mm-hmm, yeah as an employee and as a manager.
00:25:09.769 --> 00:25:09.789
Yeah.
00:25:09.789 --> 00:25:09.809
That's great.
00:25:09.809 --> 00:25:13.069
You do have to remind people that they can trust their leadership.
00:25:13.069 --> 00:25:13.109
Yeah.
00:25:13.109 --> 00:25:15.069
And if they can't trust their leadership, that's a different issue.
00:25:16.529 --> 00:25:17.049
True.
00:25:17.190 --> 00:25:22.769
And it sounds like she modeled, modeled it well for you- Mm-hmm but she also had courage.
00:25:22.809 --> 00:25:23.000
Mm-hmm.
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:30.369
And I think that's probably where you got some of your courage- Mm-hmm is you got to see, oh, she modeled, I'm guessing she modeled it well for you, you learned that as well.
00:25:30.690 --> 00:25:30.710
Yeah.
00:25:30.789 --> 00:25:34.109
But she also modeled, um, I just can't tell you more.
00:25:34.230 --> 00:25:34.759
Mm-hmm.
00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:43.200
And I quote you said,"I trust leadership." And if she's a good leader- Mm-hmm which she obviously was, um, to help you get to your position-
00:25:43.529 --> 00:25:43.559
Mm-hmm
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:46.049
then she does trust leader- she's not lying.
00:25:46.130 --> 00:25:46.250
Right.
00:25:46.259 --> 00:25:48.869
I think that's the point, is we're, we're, we have to trust leadership.
00:25:48.869 --> 00:25:51.259
And there's a point where it's like, either you trust me or you don't.
00:25:51.309 --> 00:25:51.539
Yeah.
00:25:51.740 --> 00:25:53.000
But this is where I stand.
00:25:53.089 --> 00:25:53.190
Mm-hmm.
00:25:53.190 --> 00:25:56.470
And it's that trial and error and learning, and I think giving ourself the benefit of the doubt.
00:25:56.890 --> 00:26:00.430
All of us will at time share a little bit too much- Mm-hmm and we will all hold back.
00:26:00.859 --> 00:26:03.380
But it's not just falling into those traps, I find.
00:26:03.380 --> 00:26:03.400
Yeah.
00:26:03.410 --> 00:26:08.915
You know, we want to keep asking those questions- Not a loaded question.
00:26:09.256 --> 00:26:09.655
Is there...
00:26:09.655 --> 00:26:14.746
I'll, I'll move on after this, but y- this is just really good,'cause I know a lot of people do struggle with this- Mm-hmm and I have from time to time.
00:26:15.675 --> 00:26:20.105
What has helped you break out from sharing too much- Mm or sharing too little?
00:26:20.165 --> 00:26:21.536
Any thoughts on that?
00:26:21.826 --> 00:26:22.865
I know it's trial and error.
00:26:22.935 --> 00:26:23.425
Mm-hmm.
00:26:23.516 --> 00:26:35.506
Um, has there been s- a sounding board, or- Mm has there been, um, just contemplation afterwards, like,"Well, that didn't go well?" Yeah, I'm sure maybe a combination, but anything stick out?
00:26:35.516 --> 00:26:35.536
Yeah.
00:26:35.546 --> 00:26:36.395
If not, we can move on.
00:26:36.395 --> 00:26:37.006
I'm just curious.
00:26:37.046 --> 00:26:45.046
Yeah, one of the things that I've started doing is just asking my leaders for permission to share information.
00:26:45.056 --> 00:26:45.086
Okay.
00:26:45.596 --> 00:26:51.236
Or if a piece of information is shared in a meeting, asking,"Can I share this with my team?"
00:26:51.246 --> 00:26:51.526
Mm.
00:26:51.885 --> 00:26:57.385
And just advocating for my team- Right in that way, but that gives me permission- Yeah and freedom to say,"These are the boundaries." That's
00:26:57.385 --> 00:26:57.576
great.
00:26:57.586 --> 00:27:06.036
This is what I can share." And I'm really good when I have clear boundaries, so I've just started asking for that from my leaders.
00:27:06.046 --> 00:27:06.076
Okay.
00:27:06.506 --> 00:27:18.955
And if my team is asking me and it's going the other direction, then I, even if I have information that would specifically address their question but I'm not sure if I can share it- Mm I'll tell them,"Let me go talk to-
00:27:18.986 --> 00:27:19.135
Yeah
00:27:19.476 --> 00:27:20.798
one of my leaders about this- That's great.
00:27:20.798 --> 00:27:21.596
Yeah and get, see if I can-
00:27:21.596 --> 00:27:22.036
Very good
00:27:22.205 --> 00:27:23.016
get some clarity."
00:27:23.236 --> 00:27:23.675
That's great.
00:27:25.506 --> 00:27:30.326
One, uh, daily habit or two- Mm-hmm that's had the greatest impact on your effectiveness as a leader.
00:27:31.786 --> 00:27:33.086
Routine is huge for me.
00:27:33.096 --> 00:27:33.326
Okay.
00:27:33.445 --> 00:27:45.415
So trying to do the same things in the mornings, and trying to get to work at the same time, and leave myself time to- Mm read and pray and kinda settle into the day- Yeah is really helpful for me.
00:27:45.425 --> 00:27:45.445
Yeah.
00:27:45.955 --> 00:27:48.566
Um, and that helps me feel more productive in the morning.
00:27:48.576 --> 00:27:55.935
It helps me feel more alert and present, and easing in in that way- Mm helps me not immediately get overwhelmed.
00:27:56.546 --> 00:27:57.675
So that's been helpful.
00:27:58.336 --> 00:28:03.715
And then I also manage my own tasks, uh, in a separate...
00:28:04.125 --> 00:28:08.286
I have my own task list, and I d- do different prioritization- Mm and categorization.
00:28:08.286 --> 00:28:08.526
Okay.
00:28:08.526 --> 00:28:21.276
And knowing this is someplace that I can come and just jot down an idea, or I can jot down something that just got added to my plate- Mm so that I don't forget, and later I can revisit and slot it into the right place- Yeah and choose what I need to work on that day.
00:28:21.576 --> 00:28:23.915
Helps me manage my workload- Yeah and not get overwhelmed.
00:28:24.506 --> 00:28:24.945
Very good.
00:28:25.846 --> 00:28:26.986
Everybody has different styles.
00:28:27.145 --> 00:28:27.655
That's great.
00:28:27.786 --> 00:28:28.506
Mm-hmm.
00:28:28.556 --> 00:28:31.836
What's one question every leader should ask themselves more often?
00:28:31.905 --> 00:28:32.276
Mm.
00:28:34.869 --> 00:28:38.450
I could go the really serious route with what are my blind spots?
00:28:38.609 --> 00:28:38.750
Okay.
00:28:39.299 --> 00:28:40.990
And who can I ask to call them out?
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:41.170
Mm.
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:48.769
I think that's a really scary question- Mm but it's a really important one, um, because we all have blind spots, and we all have things that we miss.
00:28:49.089 --> 00:28:49.220
Mm.
00:28:49.240 --> 00:29:08.390
So asking a trusted friend or a trusted leader or manager or colleague, somebody who sees you on a regular basis- Mm who can speak into that and say,"Yeah, I think, like, this is something that I've noticed that maybe you wanna pay attention to- Yeah or maybe you don't even realize." Um, I think that's a really important question to ask.
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:14.273
Um, other than that, it's Am I working unto the Lord?
00:29:14.773 --> 00:29:14.963
Mm.
00:29:15.503 --> 00:29:17.334
Am I actually working unto the Lord?
00:29:17.344 --> 00:29:17.354
Mm.
00:29:17.653 --> 00:29:19.354
Or am I working unto man?
00:29:19.364 --> 00:29:19.384
Yeah.
00:29:19.523 --> 00:29:21.473
Either myself or other people.
00:29:21.483 --> 00:29:21.493
Mm.
00:29:22.134 --> 00:29:24.023
And who am I doing it- Yeah all of this for?
00:29:25.534 --> 00:29:25.554
Yeah.
00:29:26.203 --> 00:29:28.943
And both of those require reflection time.
00:29:29.003 --> 00:29:32.304
I think that's the- Mm you mentioned earlier, slow down a while back.
00:29:32.304 --> 00:29:32.344
Mm-hmm.
00:29:32.344 --> 00:29:33.854
On which question it was we were talking about.
00:29:33.854 --> 00:29:33.909
Mm-hmm.
00:29:33.909 --> 00:29:35.034
But you mentioned the slow down.
00:29:35.034 --> 00:29:38.193
I think that's a key part for leaders- Mm-hmm is we tend to not slow down.
00:29:38.374 --> 00:29:38.574
Yeah.
00:29:38.584 --> 00:29:40.534
There's always a fire to put out somewhere.
00:29:40.913 --> 00:29:41.064
Mm-hmm.
00:29:41.094 --> 00:29:43.084
Um, maybe we created it.
00:29:43.403 --> 00:29:45.064
But there's always a fire to put out.
00:29:45.074 --> 00:29:45.094
Yeah.
00:29:45.263 --> 00:29:49.044
And it's that slow down and- Mm to re-orientate ourselves.
00:29:49.064 --> 00:29:49.443
Yeah.
00:29:50.334 --> 00:29:54.183
Well, speaking of fires, um, not that you hopefully have any to deal with today.
00:29:54.183 --> 00:29:59.104
But how do you make difficult decisions when there isn't a clear answer?
00:29:59.104 --> 00:29:59.114
Mm.
00:30:00.513 --> 00:30:00.854
Prayer.
00:30:01.933 --> 00:30:02.913
A lot of prayer.
00:30:03.193 --> 00:30:33.804
Um, if I have to make a decision and I don't have clear answers, I don't have clear direction, or I have to make it in isolation and- Mm there's nobody that I can really- Yeah sound, sound board things with- Mm-hmm um, I pray a lot, and I just ask the Lord for wisdom, and I repeat the prayer as many times as I need in a five-minute setting or- Sure you know, however long it takes to make the decision, I am pretty constantly praying and asking the Lord for wisdom and clarity and discernment.
00:30:34.624 --> 00:30:38.423
And then part of it is also just trusting your gut and your experience.
00:30:38.423 --> 00:30:38.463
Mm.
00:30:38.463 --> 00:30:39.874
And that's something that I've had to learn.
00:30:40.064 --> 00:30:40.284
Yeah.
00:30:40.374 --> 00:30:43.683
Um, I really like empirical evidence.
00:30:43.703 --> 00:30:48.223
I like having data-backed decisions- Yeah and moves to make.
00:30:48.233 --> 00:30:48.253
Mm-hmm.
00:30:48.253 --> 00:30:57.163
And if I don't have that, and I'm expected to make a decision, I really have to work myself up to say,"I have experience in this.
00:30:57.854 --> 00:31:02.074
I have all of the information I can possibly have," which feels like- Yeah a lot less than I want.
00:31:02.134 --> 00:31:02.354
Mm.
00:31:03.213 --> 00:31:09.614
And I have, I have reasoning for making this decision so I can answer if it goes poorly.
00:31:09.784 --> 00:31:09.973
Yeah.
00:31:09.973 --> 00:31:09.983
Yes.
00:31:09.983 --> 00:31:12.913
And I can, I can back it up and say,"Well, this is the information that I had.
00:31:13.273 --> 00:31:14.644
This is how I thought through it.
00:31:14.923 --> 00:31:17.394
I needed to make a decision, and this is the one that I made."
00:31:17.804 --> 00:31:17.854
Yeah.
00:31:17.963 --> 00:31:25.574
And just trusting my gut- Mm and saying,"Even if it goes poorly, I didn't just shoot from the hip and make- Yeah a rash decision.
00:31:25.604 --> 00:31:27.963
I thought through it- Mm and I, I can back that up."
00:31:27.993 --> 00:31:28.263
Yeah.
00:31:29.294 --> 00:31:32.354
No, I can really, I really do appreciate that answer.
00:31:32.443 --> 00:31:36.173
Um, it really is a combination.
00:31:36.173 --> 00:31:39.403
It's not a either/or of, well, God's just gonna figure it out-
00:31:39.544 --> 00:31:39.943
Mm-hmm
00:31:39.943 --> 00:31:41.233
or I need to figure it out.
00:31:41.483 --> 00:31:42.733
It's, it's a combination.
00:31:42.733 --> 00:31:50.653
It's prayer, bringing God into the situation, but also understanding He's given us wisdom and discernment, and He's put us in leadership positions- Mm-hmm so we do have to make decisions.
00:31:50.743 --> 00:31:51.104
Mm-hmm.
00:31:51.104 --> 00:31:55.653
And we can base it on, you know, several things, what we know, our experience, and sometimes it's our gut.
00:31:55.854 --> 00:31:56.023
Mm-hmm.
00:31:56.034 --> 00:32:00.943
Because we don't have the empirical evidence that we really always want to have to make it, oh, yeah, it's this.
00:32:00.953 --> 00:32:00.973
Mm-hmm.
00:32:00.973 --> 00:32:03.263
Or at least it's 80% in this favor.
00:32:03.733 --> 00:32:05.953
Um, but it is that combination.
00:32:05.953 --> 00:32:06.913
It's not an either/or.
00:32:06.973 --> 00:32:07.163
Yeah.
00:32:07.163 --> 00:32:07.703
And I appreciate that.
00:32:08.104 --> 00:32:08.233
Mm-hmm.
00:32:08.971 --> 00:32:16.301
Well, moving into a little bit of you and your leadership development- Yeah what, what are you currently learning or things that you're studying to continue to grow as a leader?
00:32:16.942 --> 00:32:25.880
Yeah, I think I'm still learning a lot about The honesty piece and just being myself in leadership.
00:32:26.210 --> 00:32:26.220
Mm.
00:32:27.009 --> 00:32:36.799
I think I came into leadership thinking I had to be some version of myself that I was not, or I needed to scale up- Yeah the professionalism.
00:32:36.849 --> 00:32:36.869
Yeah.
00:32:36.869 --> 00:32:41.359
I needed to scale up, and the- that's very important, and you should always be professional in your workplace.
00:32:42.230 --> 00:32:50.900
But I think the degree that I had in mind that I had to reach- Mm was gonna be far too much for the actual setting of my workplace- Okay and would've been inauthentic.
00:32:51.500 --> 00:33:00.480
So I've been learning a lot about just being myself, and my team knows me, and they know who I am as a person.
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:02.069
They know how I process information.
00:33:02.349 --> 00:33:03.779
They know what's important to me.
00:33:04.309 --> 00:33:08.990
So trying to connect the dots is essentially an inte- an integrity piece.
00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:09.269
Mm.
00:33:09.329 --> 00:33:10.509
What are you motivated by?
00:33:10.519 --> 00:33:11.589
What do you care- Yeah about?
00:33:12.170 --> 00:33:13.160
How do you make decisions?
00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:14.089
What's important to you?
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:21.019
And then are you actually living that out in the workplace and in your day-to-day and in every interaction with your team and with your colleagues that your team watch?
00:33:21.029 --> 00:33:21.200
Yeah.
00:33:21.569 --> 00:33:29.109
So trying to be really honest with them about who I am, calling out my own weaknesses at times when it's appropriate and saying,"You know what?
00:33:30.019 --> 00:33:33.160
That was maybe not the best, and here's, here's a redirect.
00:33:33.190 --> 00:33:34.390
Like, I'm sorry about that.
00:33:34.420 --> 00:33:39.529
I dropped that ball." Um, and taking, taking ownership there- Yeah but being honest and saying,"You know what?
00:33:39.609 --> 00:33:40.509
That's not a strength.
00:33:40.740 --> 00:33:41.680
We're gonna work on that."
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:42.099
Yeah.
00:33:42.099 --> 00:33:55.059
And being honest about your strengths and saying- Mm-hmm"I'm particularly gifted in this because that's been affirmed- Mm by other people to me, and it gives me life, and it's something I'm- Yeah excited about, and I wanna keep doing this." So being able to be honest- Yeah on both ends too.
00:33:55.609 --> 00:33:56.029
It's good.
00:33:56.690 --> 00:33:57.339
It is a balance.
00:33:57.339 --> 00:33:58.640
Again, we have a theme today.
00:33:58.710 --> 00:34:00.019
It is balancing both of those.
00:34:00.019 --> 00:34:00.289
Yes.
00:34:00.299 --> 00:34:01.119
And it's a constant journey.
00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:03.210
But I do really appreciate your intentionality in that.
00:34:03.220 --> 00:34:03.279
Mm.
00:34:03.289 --> 00:34:07.569
Just sharing with people what, what is going well, what's not, and owning it.
00:34:07.579 --> 00:34:07.599
Yeah.
00:34:07.609 --> 00:34:08.170
That's great.
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:14.190
So you mentioned, uh, several times there's been change- Mm-hmm and things that are happening in your current, uh, job.
00:34:14.199 --> 00:34:14.480
Mm-hmm.
00:34:14.929 --> 00:34:18.280
So how are you adapting to change during this season?
00:34:19.030 --> 00:34:24.920
And I'll add a little caveat, and, and staying h- you know, spiritually, mentally healthy- Mm and being able to move forward.
00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:25.559
It's a balance.
00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:25.777
How-
00:34:25.777 --> 00:34:26.210
Mm-hmm
00:34:26.210 --> 00:34:27.119
how is that affecting you?
00:34:27.130 --> 00:34:27.889
What's going on there?
00:34:28.829 --> 00:34:34.570
It is a lot of moment-by-moment prayer- Okay genuinely, um, because each day looks different right now.
00:34:34.579 --> 00:34:34.599
Yeah.
00:34:34.699 --> 00:34:44.489
And I may get a call first thing in the morning that adds a new project to my plate that came from higher-ups, and- Mm they don't necessarily know what's on my plate now.
00:34:44.489 --> 00:34:49.340
They don't know the things that I'm working on, but this is now taking priority.
00:34:49.949 --> 00:35:00.579
So I have to be flexible, and I have to be able to take those things and reprioritize and delegate what I can and equip my team to move the work forward.
00:35:01.230 --> 00:35:05.230
So it's a lot of flexibility, which is not necessarily a strength.
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:07.289
So I've been learning a lot about that.
00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:16.085
Um- And then asking my leaders for priorities and saying,"This is what's on my plate.
00:35:16.976 --> 00:35:18.246
What do I need to do?
00:35:18.255 --> 00:35:20.226
What is absolutely mission critical?
00:35:20.246 --> 00:35:25.956
What is important- Yeah, yeah and needs to get done, but if this ball drops, it's not gonna be the end of the world." Yeah.
00:35:26.255 --> 00:35:31.246
"And then what things can I either give to somebody else to do- Mm-hmm or just not do?" That's been-
00:35:31.246 --> 00:35:31.356
That's
00:35:31.356 --> 00:35:33.626
great helpful with all of the change, too.
00:35:33.876 --> 00:35:34.115
Hmm.
00:35:34.695 --> 00:35:37.166
You kind of answered this, but I'll ask it in a different way.
00:35:37.166 --> 00:35:39.045
What's stretching your leadership today?
00:35:40.215 --> 00:35:40.226
Hmm.
00:35:40.235 --> 00:35:42.146
Yeah, definitely that flexibility piece.
00:35:42.155 --> 00:35:45.365
Okay And, and needing to take things day by day and hour by hour.
00:35:45.376 --> 00:35:45.396
Mm-hmm.
00:35:45.896 --> 00:35:47.235
And say,"You know what?
00:35:47.235 --> 00:35:48.585
I just got a meeting on my calendar.
00:35:48.615 --> 00:35:54.376
That's gonna be two hours of my day, and I did not plan for that, so how do I rework things?" Yeah, mm-hmm.
00:35:54.385 --> 00:36:06.806
Or there's been, you know, more change, more turnover, and now everybody's workload is different, or different objectives, or now more people are speaking into things than there were before, and how do we navigate that?
00:36:07.056 --> 00:36:08.525
It's been very stretching for me.
00:36:08.536 --> 00:36:08.715
Yeah.
00:36:08.806 --> 00:36:12.405
Um, but it's been really helpful and really good at the same time.
00:36:12.576 --> 00:36:13.115
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:13.115 --> 00:36:18.106
Sounds like it's teaching you a new s- not a new skill set, but it's, it's developing that skill muscle a little bit more.
00:36:18.115 --> 00:36:18.146
Mm-hmm.
00:36:18.155 --> 00:36:19.025
The flexibility.
00:36:19.405 --> 00:36:22.215
Not that we really want to l- grow in that many times.
00:36:22.226 --> 00:36:22.315
Mm-hmm.
00:36:22.326 --> 00:36:23.876
But it does help in the future.
00:36:23.876 --> 00:36:26.106
You're being prepared, you know, for more flexibility there.
00:36:26.106 --> 00:36:26.146
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:36:27.635 --> 00:36:28.556
Well, that's great.
00:36:28.585 --> 00:36:37.076
Thinking of, um, passing your information on to others- Mm-hmm uh, let's think of Hailey, say, 10 years ago, or whatever number you wanna pick.
00:36:37.135 --> 00:36:45.385
Um, what would you give your younger self advice w- Hmm knowing what you know now, in leadership and what you've learned, and, uh, you're continuing to learn and grow and develop as a leader and-
00:36:45.865 --> 00:36:45.936
Mm-hmm
00:36:46.076 --> 00:36:48.755
um, what would you give yourself for advice?
00:36:51.039 --> 00:37:14.190
I think given my personality and my tendency to craft my own role or the way that I project myself- Mm or present myself, I think one of the biggest pieces of advice that I would give myself, that I'm currently learning, is being authentic is the m- healthiest leadership style.
00:37:14.869 --> 00:37:20.429
And really being yourself, playing to your strengths, and finding people to- Mm to help supplement in your weaknesses.
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:20.460
Yeah.
00:37:20.949 --> 00:37:28.250
Asking people for honest feedback, and just being real with your team, being real with your leaders and saying,"This is who I am.
00:37:28.250 --> 00:37:29.739
This is what I'm motivated by.
00:37:29.750 --> 00:37:29.760
Mm.
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:31.239
This is what's important to me." Sure.
00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:43.989
"This is why I do what I do." Um, I think that being told that at a younger age, that that's actually a strength- Mm and that's a healthy way to lead- Yeah I think would've helped me a lot.
00:37:44.099 --> 00:37:44.530
That's great.
00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:44.869
Yeah.
00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:46.300
This may be the same answer.
00:37:46.329 --> 00:37:47.849
I'll ask the question differently.
00:37:48.429 --> 00:37:51.599
Um, how, what do emerging leaders most need today?
00:37:51.610 --> 00:37:51.619
Mm.
00:37:51.630 --> 00:37:55.789
Is it that authentic, sissy you're talking about, being authentic, being real, or
00:37:56.849 --> 00:37:56.940
what do you think?
00:37:56.940 --> 00:37:57.820
Yeah, I think so.
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:13.730
Um, I think being reminded that you are a unique person, you have unique giftings- Mm that the Lord has given you, and the reason He's calling you into positions of leadership is to use those unique gifts.
00:38:13.769 --> 00:38:13.969
Mm.
00:38:14.309 --> 00:38:25.550
So being honest about the fact that the Lord has called you into leadership and not some ideal version of you- That's right is really, really helpful- Mm and really important.
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:25.760
That's
00:38:25.789 --> 00:38:26.010
good.
00:38:26.170 --> 00:38:32.500
So- Yeah being, being real, being authentic, having integrity, like, connecting all those dots from- Yeah mission to action.
00:38:32.809 --> 00:38:32.920
Yeah.
00:38:33.230 --> 00:38:35.869
No, I really do hope when people are watching this, they're...
00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:38.440
You know, that is so true, and it's so true through the Bible.
00:38:38.449 --> 00:38:38.469
Mm-hmm.
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:42.130
People always push back on God when He's called people, and like,"But I'm not ready." Mm-hmm.
00:38:42.130 --> 00:38:44.539
Or make excuses, and we tend to do that today.
00:38:44.550 --> 00:38:44.559
Mm.
00:38:44.579 --> 00:38:45.550
We're still humans.
00:38:46.250 --> 00:38:47.360
Um, but you're right.
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:49.650
He is calling us as we are.
00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:50.300
Mm-hmm.
00:38:50.300 --> 00:38:51.489
And He knows everything.
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:57.440
Um, and to embrace, not to stay wherever we are, but to embrace the calling and to move forward.
00:38:57.449 --> 00:38:57.469
Yeah.
00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:04.445
I think that's, a lot of people miss that connection of- I'm not getting called for the future me.
00:39:04.505 --> 00:39:08.405
I'm getting called for the current, and the future will come, but it takes that intentionality.
00:39:08.635 --> 00:39:08.905
Mm-hmm.
00:39:08.905 --> 00:39:09.735
So, yeah.
00:39:09.996 --> 00:39:10.266
Yeah.
00:39:11.916 --> 00:39:13.996
So a couple rapid fire questions for you.
00:39:14.005 --> 00:39:14.365
Bring it.
00:39:14.416 --> 00:39:16.735
You, your favorite leadership book?
00:39:17.565 --> 00:39:20.965
I have been working through Culture Matters-
00:39:20.976 --> 00:39:21.175
Hmm
00:39:21.255 --> 00:39:23.648
by Jenny Catron- Yeah I think is how you say her name.
00:39:23.648 --> 00:39:24.005
Catron, yeah.
00:39:24.045 --> 00:39:24.536
Catron.
00:39:24.545 --> 00:39:24.746
Yeah.
00:39:24.786 --> 00:39:26.695
You had her on your podcast- Yes actually.
00:39:27.226 --> 00:39:33.255
So I have been reading that book, and I actually led a group through it at work- Nice which was really fun.
00:39:33.735 --> 00:39:35.436
But it's highly practical.
00:39:35.496 --> 00:39:37.936
It's not overly redundant.
00:39:38.036 --> 00:39:43.585
I think the introduction, she's making an argument for why culture is as important as- Yeah she thinks it is.
00:39:43.865 --> 00:39:53.835
So there is some repetitive language and arguments there, but from that point on, the rest of the book is highly practical and very, very good.
00:39:53.916 --> 00:39:54.056
Yeah.
00:39:54.126 --> 00:40:03.996
It's clear, and it's helpful, and I believe she, she talks about in her book being in leadership at l- her local church for some time.
00:40:03.996 --> 00:40:04.085
Mm.
00:40:04.085 --> 00:40:12.655
So it, it is also through a faith- Mm-hmm and Christian lens, which I love because I can see that in everything that she's suggesting and everything she's saying.
00:40:13.175 --> 00:40:20.856
So it's been really helpful for me, uh, in leadership to read that book and think,"How do I actually cultivate the culture of my team?
00:40:21.255 --> 00:40:23.606
How do we contribute to the culture of the organization?
00:40:24.115 --> 00:40:27.346
How do we improve and grow?" Because culture's never stagnant.
00:40:27.536 --> 00:40:29.016
So it's been really helpful.
00:40:30.025 --> 00:40:32.746
That is one of my top recommended books, I have to say.
00:40:32.846 --> 00:40:32.976
Mm-hmm.
00:40:32.976 --> 00:40:33.985
It's a great culture book.
00:40:33.985 --> 00:40:35.545
She does a great job breaking it down.
00:40:35.626 --> 00:40:35.876
Mm-hmm.
00:40:35.876 --> 00:40:36.235
Thank you.
00:40:36.726 --> 00:40:38.186
I'm glad you were able to take a team through that.
00:40:38.186 --> 00:40:38.445
Mm-hmm.
00:40:38.525 --> 00:40:39.865
Did, did they appreciate it?
00:40:39.956 --> 00:40:40.335
They did.
00:40:40.335 --> 00:40:41.096
That was a loaded question.
00:40:41.195 --> 00:40:41.376
Yeah.
00:40:41.376 --> 00:40:41.465
But did they?
00:40:41.476 --> 00:40:42.286
Well, yeah.
00:40:42.286 --> 00:40:42.556
Okay.
00:40:42.556 --> 00:40:43.335
They, I got good feedback.
00:40:43.335 --> 00:40:43.925
Okay, good.
00:40:44.085 --> 00:40:44.496
All right.
00:40:45.326 --> 00:40:47.076
Um, favorite Bible passage?
00:40:48.590 --> 00:40:49.559
It depends on the day.
00:40:49.809 --> 00:40:50.639
But today-
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:51.190
That's fair.
00:40:51.190 --> 00:40:51.809
That's fair
00:40:52.409 --> 00:40:52.719
Yeah.
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:57.739
Today is Psalm 16, um, and that's, that's on, on rotation pretty regularly.
00:40:57.750 --> 00:40:57.769
Yeah.
00:40:57.809 --> 00:41:12.449
Um, but in it, the psalmist is saying that, um,"The lines have fallen for me in pleasant places, and surely I have a beautiful inheritance," and, um,"At the Lord's right hand is fullness of joy, and in His presence-
00:41:12.699 --> 00:41:12.940
Right are
00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:29.539
pleasures forevermore." So just being reminded that the Lord Himself is my portion, the Lord Himself is the greatest good that I have and will ever have, and that He orchestrates good things for me.
00:41:29.550 --> 00:41:29.570
Yeah.
00:41:29.619 --> 00:41:31.280
The lines have fallen for me- Yeah in pleasant places.
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:31.639
Yeah.
00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:34.010
So just reminding.
00:41:34.019 --> 00:41:35.510
It's kind of a drumbeat in my life.
00:41:35.510 --> 00:41:36.510
Like, the Lord is good.
00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:36.530
Mm.
00:41:36.670 --> 00:41:37.730
He is your good.
00:41:37.989 --> 00:41:38.130
Mm-hmm.
00:41:38.130 --> 00:41:39.570
And He does good for you.
00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:40.719
Thanks.
00:41:41.579 --> 00:41:43.809
One word that defines great leadership.
00:41:43.829 --> 00:41:44.119
Mm.
00:41:45.530 --> 00:41:46.250
Authentic.
00:41:46.809 --> 00:41:46.840
Okay.
00:41:46.849 --> 00:41:47.860
We'll just bring it right back.
00:41:47.869 --> 00:41:47.889
Yeah.
00:41:47.900 --> 00:41:48.340
There we go.
00:41:48.349 --> 00:41:48.960
Full circle.
00:41:48.980 --> 00:41:49.269
Yep.
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:51.400
Okay.
00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:53.550
Well, for you, closing comments.
00:41:53.550 --> 00:41:55.539
We're nearing the end of our podcast.
00:41:55.570 --> 00:42:01.909
Um- Mm-hmm if you wanted people to remember one thing from today's conversation, what would you want that to be?
00:42:02.860 --> 00:42:08.090
I would say if you are in a position of leadership, it's because the Lord has called you to leadership.
00:42:08.099 --> 00:42:08.340
Mm-hmm.
00:42:08.820 --> 00:42:12.880
So r- asking the Lord to show you how to honor Him in that.
00:42:12.889 --> 00:42:12.900
Mm.
00:42:13.710 --> 00:42:18.820
And asking the Lord to show you day by day, minute by minute, what that looks like.
00:42:18.849 --> 00:42:19.000
Yeah.
00:42:19.420 --> 00:42:26.650
Um, I think that's, that's the most important takeaway from my time in leadership- Yeah and the thing that I would want somebody to take- That's great away from this.
00:42:26.690 --> 00:42:27.289
Well, thank you.
00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:27.320
Yeah.
00:42:27.630 --> 00:42:28.860
It's been great having you on today.
00:42:28.869 --> 00:42:28.889
Yeah.
00:42:28.900 --> 00:42:29.639
Thank you, Jonathan.
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:29.690
I appreciate
00:42:29.690 --> 00:42:29.715
it.
00:42:29.715 --> 00:42:34.670
Yeah, I really appreciate your honesty answering the questions, and just the dialogue has been great.
00:42:34.690 --> 00:42:42.050
And I really do hope as people watch this, is they're able to reflect on where, where you were, are you in leadership?
00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:47.199
Where are challenges that you're facing that you need to be more authentic?
00:42:47.210 --> 00:42:47.380
Mm-hmm.
00:42:47.380 --> 00:42:54.090
You need to be more communicative, communicable with people, and able to communicate clearly, or maybe you're doing too much or too little.
00:42:54.090 --> 00:43:05.070
Just take that time to reflect, um, th- after you watch the podcast or during it, and feel free to reach out, um, to us at faithdrivenleadership.co as well if we can be of assistance to you.
00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:11.860
But just as a reminder to everybody, if you don't, please do like and subscribe to the podcast, and, uh, leave a comment below.
00:43:12.019 --> 00:43:13.469
Um, how has this blessed you?
00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:17.300
Um, how can we be of assistance to you, or any challenges that it's been?
00:43:17.340 --> 00:43:24.960
And just a reminder for all of us, we do want to remind ourselves, we want to lead with clarity, grow with courage- Mm and change what really matters.
00:43:25.260 --> 00:43:25.949
Have a great day