WEBVTT
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[SPEAKER_02]: There are certain criminal cases that do more than terrified the public.
00:04.657 --> 00:09.042
[SPEAKER_02]: These are cases that fundamentally alter the psychology of an entire generation.
00:09.642 --> 00:13.046
[SPEAKER_02]: Cases that permanently change the way parents raise children.
00:13.646 --> 00:19.292
[SPEAKER_02]: The way communities define safety and the way ordinary Americans move through public life.
00:20.554 --> 00:31.923
[SPEAKER_02]: There are stories that slip through a cracks, victims who vanish from headlines, cases that grow cold, not because no one cares but because the system failed them.
00:32.203 --> 00:37.868
[SPEAKER_00]: Some killers are caught, some walk free, and others hide in plain sight for years.
00:38.448 --> 00:41.931
[SPEAKER_00]: Their crimes forgotten, their victims extinguished.
00:42.351 --> 00:43.092
[SPEAKER_02]: But not here.
00:43.612 --> 00:44.193
[SPEAKER_00]: Not with us.
00:45.133 --> 00:49.497
[SPEAKER_02]: We're here to dig of the truth, case by case, victim by victim.
00:49.967 --> 00:55.472
[SPEAKER_00]: because they mattered, they still matter, and someone somewhere knows what happened.
00:57.073 --> 01:03.279
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Extinguished, where David McClam and Ladana Humphrey share stories of the missing and murdered.
01:04.200 --> 01:04.600
[SPEAKER_01]: Missing.
01:06.102 --> 01:06.482
[SPEAKER_02]: Murdered.
01:07.923 --> 01:09.785
[SPEAKER_02]: Their lives were extinguished.
01:10.265 --> 01:13.869
[SPEAKER_02]: The case we are discussing tonight is one of those cases.
01:15.232 --> 01:26.460
[SPEAKER_02]: See between February of 1976 and March of 1977, four children disappeared from suburban communities in Oakland County, Michigan, just north of Detroit.
01:27.361 --> 01:34.185
[SPEAKER_02]: They vanished while doing completely ordinary things that millions of children did every single day during that era.
01:35.246 --> 01:40.570
[SPEAKER_02]: Once I was walking home from an American Legion Hall, I have to be coming board doing a pool tournament.
01:41.482 --> 01:45.526
[SPEAKER_02]: Another disappeared after an argument with her mother over dinner preparations.
01:46.487 --> 01:50.531
[SPEAKER_02]: One little girl vanished while walking to a 7-11 for candy in a magazine.
01:50.551 --> 01:59.340
[SPEAKER_02]: In another child disappeared after writing his skateboard to a pharmacy to buy candy while his sister prepared to leave for a movie theater.
02:00.430 --> 02:04.952
[SPEAKER_02]: None of these children were abducted from isolated highways or dark rural roads.
02:05.712 --> 02:15.215
[SPEAKER_02]: They disappeared from ordinary suburban life, from neighborhoods and shopping areas and familiar public spaces where parents believed children were safe.
02:16.076 --> 02:21.698
[SPEAKER_02]: And perhaps that is what made these murders so psychologically devastating to the public at the time.
02:22.538 --> 02:28.180
[SPEAKER_02]: They shattered the illusion that danger existed somewhere far away from normal American communities.
02:28.993 --> 02:37.440
[SPEAKER_02]: They forced parents to confront the terrifying possibility that predators could operate invisibly inside the rhythm of everyday life itself.
02:38.481 --> 02:48.850
[SPEAKER_02]: The victims were 12-year-old Mark Stephens, 12-year-old Joe Robinson, 10-year-old Christine Mahelik, and 11-year-old Timothy King.
02:49.903 --> 02:54.649
[SPEAKER_02]: All four children were held captive for periods of time before being murdered.
02:55.510 --> 03:01.336
[SPEAKER_02]: All four bodies were eventually discovered in visible public locations across Oakland County.
03:02.137 --> 03:08.284
[SPEAKER_02]: And nearly 50 years later, the identity of the killer or killer remains unknown.
03:09.257 --> 03:13.679
[SPEAKER_02]: But tonight's episode is not simply about an unsolved serial murder case.
03:14.459 --> 03:16.200
[SPEAKER_02]: It is about predator behavior.
03:16.840 --> 03:17.961
[SPEAKER_02]: It is about grooming.
03:18.641 --> 03:23.823
[SPEAKER_02]: It is about how offenders use familiarity and trust as camouflage.
03:24.734 --> 03:41.020
[SPEAKER_02]: It is about investigative failures, contaminated crime scenes, conflicting theories, media panic, public fear, and the devastating emotional toll placed upon families who spent decades trapped inside unanswered questions.
03:42.020 --> 03:50.243
[SPEAKER_02]: And perhaps most importantly, it is about the horrifying realization that these children were not immediately murdered after being abducted.
03:51.147 --> 03:59.075
[SPEAKER_02]: Investigators concluded that the victims had been fed, cleaned, restrained, and held captive before death.
04:00.616 --> 04:03.159
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the children had eaten shortly before they were killed.
04:03.999 --> 04:06.862
[SPEAKER_02]: One child appeared to have been cleaned with medical grade soap.
04:07.683 --> 04:14.469
[SPEAKER_02]: Another victim's killer appeared to panic and shoot the body after mistakenly believing she might still be alive.
04:15.390 --> 04:27.663
[SPEAKER_02]: The level of organization and control demonstrated by the offender or fenders, deeply disturbed investigators, and permanently transformed public perception of child predators in America.
04:28.644 --> 04:34.330
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm David McClamm, and I'm LaDonna Humphrey, and tonight on the Extinguished Podcast.
04:35.113 --> 04:57.206
[SPEAKER_02]: We are examining the case of the Oakland County child killer, a case that remains one of the most hunting unsolved child murder investigations in American history, not simply because it remains unsolved, but because nearly every detail surrounding these murders reveals something deeply unsettling about predators,
04:57.766 --> 05:07.450
[SPEAKER_02]: communities and the systems that failed vulnerable children doing one of the most fearful periods in modern American criminal history.
05:08.510 --> 05:19.074
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think one of the reasons David, this case, still resonates so powerfully, nearly 50 years later, is because it completely destroyed the public's assumptions about what danger looked like.
05:19.994 --> 05:23.916
[SPEAKER_00]: During the 70s, many American children still lived with enormous freedom.
05:25.056 --> 05:26.277
[SPEAKER_00]: compared to what we see today.
05:26.577 --> 05:27.518
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, think about it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Kids walked to stores alone, children rode bicycles across neighborhoods unsupervised.
05:33.423 --> 05:48.455
[SPEAKER_00]: Young teenagers wandered shopping events, skating rinks, bowling alleys, arcades, and convenient stores with very little adult concern, because communities still believed familiar parody, itself created safety.
05:49.276 --> 05:51.097
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can remember being told,
05:53.159 --> 05:56.442
[SPEAKER_00]: I would never tell my children that in this day and age.
05:57.142 --> 05:58.603
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're on life 360.
05:59.384 --> 06:00.705
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's where we're at.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what about you David?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm an Arkansas-Euron California.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, saying, I mean, we were raising the same era.
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[SPEAKER_02]: My mom would be like, see, when you get home, there's be home for the students to go on.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You can't do that today.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, through Apple, I'm tracking my whole family all the time where they are.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So, times has definitely changed.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It definitely has.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, with the Oakland County murders, you know, something was exposed.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was like this terrifying weakness that that belief system that we all thought was okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This weakness of,
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[SPEAKER_00]: hey, maybe something is really wrong and we need to have some more safety measures in place for kids.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That was, I think, a real wake up call in the 70s because these children were not abducted through force in broad daylight with witnesses screaming for help.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They actually vanished very quietly and calmly and efficiently, which strongly suggests the person responsible
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[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And investigators believe the Fender likely appeared trustworthy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They were possibly an authoritarian of some sort.
07:10.140 --> 07:14.945
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were capable of making children feel comfortable enough to approach them voluntarily.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Witnesses described men who looked ordinary, men who blended into suburban life, men standing beside common vehicles and parking lots, men who did not appear threatening immediately.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that reality is exactly what continues to make this case so psychologically disturbing, even now, because the greatest predators are often not the people communities fear instinctively.
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[SPEAKER_02]: See when people discuss the Oakland County child killer today, the conversation often becomes consumed by suspects, theories, composite sketches, DNA evidence, mysterious letters, and speculations surrounding whether one offender or multiple offenders were responsible.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There have been theories involving organized abuse networks, theories involving child pornography operations, theories involving wealthy suspects with political influence, and theories involving multiple coordinated predators operating together, rather than a single serial offender.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Investigators examined thousands upon thousands of tips over the years.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The task force reportedly investigated more than 18,000 leads, questioned countless individuals, and even uncovered a multi-state child pornography reign connected to North Fox Island during the broader investigation.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But beneath all of those theories and investigative rabbit holes lies something much more important.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This case primarily altered how America understood predators, because these murders reveal that child predators do not necessarily survive through brute force or obvious violence.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They survive through patience, manipulation, familiarity, grooming, behavior, and society's willingness to underestimate them.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The victims in this case, who are
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[SPEAKER_02]: Mark's deb is disappeared while walking home less than a mile from the American Legion Hall where his mother worked.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Joe Robinson vannes after leaving her house, following a family argument.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Christine Mahelik disappeared after walking alone to a similar level for candy in a magazine.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Timothy King vannes after skateboarding to a pharmacy for candy while it's just prepared to leave for the movies.
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[SPEAKER_02]: None of those scenarios would have appeared extraordinarily dangerous to many parents doing that era.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And that is exactly why this case shattered the public's ecologically.
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[SPEAKER_02]: If forced communities to recognize that purters could move invisibly through ordinary suburban life while appearing completely normal to the people around them, the details
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[SPEAKER_02]: Mark Stephens had rope burns on his wrist and ankles.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Evidence, he had been restrained doing captivity.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Joe Robinson had apparently been fed and cared for before death.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Christine Mahelik was held for nearly 19 days before being murdered, less than 24 hours prior to discovery.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And Timothy King had eaten fried chicken, surely before death.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Reportedly, his favorite food and having to wash with medical grades so before his body was discarded.
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[SPEAKER_02]: White dog hairs, repeatedly appeared on victims, witnesses repeatedly described dark color Pontiacs near the abduction in disposal locations, yet despite all of those details, despite the largest murder investigation in America at the time, despite decades of renewed forensic analysis, the killer has never officially been identified.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think one of the most heartbreaking aspects of this case, David, is realizing how many failures surrounded the investigation from the very beginning.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Think about it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Crime scenes were contaminated.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Evidence was mishandled.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Investigators reportedly bagged clothing improperly before forensic teams processed the scenes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: police placed blankets over bodies that potentially compromised evidence.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Early assumptions about runaway behavior delayed urgency in some of the situations, and witness information shifted over time as fear spread throughout Oakland County, and media coverage was intensifying and people were just terrified.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And even now, decades later, many decades later, there remains enormous disagreement over vehicle suspects, timelines, and forensic interpretations connected to those murders.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And yet, despite all those investigative problems, one reality remains absolutely undeniable, I think.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the fact that these children mattered, their lives mattered, and their families mattered.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and the fear created by these murders fundamentally changed American parenting forever.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely forever.
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[SPEAKER_00]: People who grew up during the late 70s often describe the Oakland County case, as one of the moments that ended a certain kind of childhood innocence in suburban America.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Parents stopped allowing children to roam as freely,
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[SPEAKER_00]: Stranger Danger campaigns intensified.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Communities became more fearful.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Media coverage surrounding missing and abducted children, it increased dramatically during the years that followed.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And in many ways, this case became part of the foundation for modern, American fear surrounding child abduction itself.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But beyond fear is something even more important and that's the humanity of the victims.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Mark was a little boy who was boarded a pool tournament who simply wanted to go home and watch television.
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[SPEAKER_00]: When he put it in that perspective, it's heartbreaking.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Jill was a pre-teen girl struggling emotionally after her parents divorced and a recent move.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Christine, she still believed in Santa Claus.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Timothy was described as social, athletic, intelligent, and he was deeply loved by his family.
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[SPEAKER_00]: they should not have been headlines.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They were real human beings whose lives ended in terror and confusion, while their families spent decades trapped between grief and unanswered questions.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's why this case, it still matters.
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[SPEAKER_00]: In cases like this, still matter.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Not because they're sensational, because definitely, we've seen tons of people cover this case, right, you know, podcasters, authors, you name it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to talk about this because it was sensational or mysterious.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think the unresolved violence leaves emotional wreckage in that stretches across generations.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we need to think about that as well.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's all you agree.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And perhaps the most disturbing truth surrounding this case is that the psychological patterns we've built by these murders still exist today.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Punisher still rely on trust.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They still possess themselves inside familiar environments.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They still exploit vulnerable children.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They still manipulate communities that desperately want to believe danger exists somewhere else.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And society still struggles to confront uncomfortable truths when those truths threaten familiar institutions, familiar people, or familiar environments.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That is why the extinguished podcasts is focusing on cases like this moving forward.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Because these stories are not merely historical mysteries, they are warnings.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Warnings about silence.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Warnings about blind trust.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Warnings about grooming and manipulation.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Warnings about what happens when communities underestimate predators in this miserable children.
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[SPEAKER_02]: In nearly 50 years later,
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[SPEAKER_02]: as they were in 1977.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That is so true.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That is so true, David.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for tuning in.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I know that this is a different format and it's going to take a little bit of time for our listeners to maybe adjust, but I hope that you appreciate the focus that we now have for extinguished and we appreciate you tuning in.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, most definitely, for all you guys that hung with us, it's been one of those long-hightest as we know, but we do appreciate you, and thank you for staying tuned.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And remember, as some stories disappear because time passes, but others disappear because silence helped bury them.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And when we stop speaking their names, stop asking questions, and stop searching for truth.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Their lives risk being extinguished all over again.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for joining us and we'll catch you on the next episode.
00:00.233 --> 00:03.857
[SPEAKER_02]: There are certain criminal cases that do more than terrified the public.
00:04.657 --> 00:09.042
[SPEAKER_02]: These are cases that fundamentally alter the psychology of an entire generation.
00:09.642 --> 00:13.046
[SPEAKER_02]: Cases that permanently change the way parents raise children.
00:13.646 --> 00:19.292
[SPEAKER_02]: The way communities define safety and the way ordinary Americans move through public life.
00:20.554 --> 00:31.923
[SPEAKER_02]: There are stories that slip through a cracks, victims who vanish from headlines, cases that grow cold, not because no one cares but because the system failed them.
00:32.203 --> 00:37.868
[SPEAKER_00]: Some killers are caught, some walk free, and others hide in plain sight for years.
00:38.448 --> 00:41.931
[SPEAKER_00]: Their crimes forgotten, their victims extinguished.
00:42.351 --> 00:43.092
[SPEAKER_02]: But not here.
00:43.612 --> 00:44.193
[SPEAKER_00]: Not with us.
00:45.133 --> 00:49.497
[SPEAKER_02]: We're here to dig of the truth, case by case, victim by victim.
00:49.967 --> 00:55.472
[SPEAKER_00]: because they mattered, they still matter, and someone somewhere knows what happened.
00:57.073 --> 01:03.279
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Extinguished, where David McClam and Ladana Humphrey share stories of the missing and murdered.
01:04.200 --> 01:04.600
[SPEAKER_01]: Missing.
01:06.102 --> 01:06.482
[SPEAKER_02]: Murdered.
01:07.923 --> 01:09.785
[SPEAKER_02]: Their lives were extinguished.
01:10.265 --> 01:13.869
[SPEAKER_02]: The case we are discussing tonight is one of those cases.
01:15.232 --> 01:26.460
[SPEAKER_02]: See between February of 1976 and March of 1977, four children disappeared from suburban communities in Oakland County, Michigan, just north of Detroit.
01:27.361 --> 01:34.185
[SPEAKER_02]: They vanished while doing completely ordinary things that millions of children did every single day during that era.
01:35.246 --> 01:40.570
[SPEAKER_02]: Once I was walking home from an American Legion Hall, I have to be coming board doing a pool tournament.
01:41.482 --> 01:45.526
[SPEAKER_02]: Another disappeared after an argument with her mother over dinner preparations.
01:46.487 --> 01:50.531
[SPEAKER_02]: One little girl vanished while walking to a 7-11 for candy in a magazine.
01:50.551 --> 01:59.340
[SPEAKER_02]: In another child disappeared after writing his skateboard to a pharmacy to buy candy while his sister prepared to leave for a movie theater.
02:00.430 --> 02:04.952
[SPEAKER_02]: None of these children were abducted from isolated highways or dark rural roads.
02:05.712 --> 02:15.215
[SPEAKER_02]: They disappeared from ordinary suburban life, from neighborhoods and shopping areas and familiar public spaces where parents believed children were safe.
02:16.076 --> 02:21.698
[SPEAKER_02]: And perhaps that is what made these murders so psychologically devastating to the public at the time.
02:22.538 --> 02:28.180
[SPEAKER_02]: They shattered the illusion that danger existed somewhere far away from normal American communities.
02:28.993 --> 02:37.440
[SPEAKER_02]: They forced parents to confront the terrifying possibility that predators could operate invisibly inside the rhythm of everyday life itself.
02:38.481 --> 02:48.850
[SPEAKER_02]: The victims were 12-year-old Mark Stephens, 12-year-old Joe Robinson, 10-year-old Christine Mahelik, and 11-year-old Timothy King.
02:49.903 --> 02:54.649
[SPEAKER_02]: All four children were held captive for periods of time before being murdered.
02:55.510 --> 03:01.336
[SPEAKER_02]: All four bodies were eventually discovered in visible public locations across Oakland County.
03:02.137 --> 03:08.284
[SPEAKER_02]: And nearly 50 years later, the identity of the killer or killer remains unknown.
03:09.257 --> 03:13.679
[SPEAKER_02]: But tonight's episode is not simply about an unsolved serial murder case.
03:14.459 --> 03:16.200
[SPEAKER_02]: It is about predator behavior.
03:16.840 --> 03:17.961
[SPEAKER_02]: It is about grooming.
03:18.641 --> 03:23.823
[SPEAKER_02]: It is about how offenders use familiarity and trust as camouflage.
03:24.734 --> 03:41.020
[SPEAKER_02]: It is about investigative failures, contaminated crime scenes, conflicting theories, media panic, public fear, and the devastating emotional toll placed upon families who spent decades trapped inside unanswered questions.
03:42.020 --> 03:50.243
[SPEAKER_02]: And perhaps most importantly, it is about the horrifying realization that these children were not immediately murdered after being abducted.
03:51.147 --> 03:59.075
[SPEAKER_02]: Investigators concluded that the victims had been fed, cleaned, restrained, and held captive before death.
04:00.616 --> 04:03.159
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the children had eaten shortly before they were killed.
04:03.999 --> 04:06.862
[SPEAKER_02]: One child appeared to have been cleaned with medical grade soap.
04:07.683 --> 04:14.469
[SPEAKER_02]: Another victim's killer appeared to panic and shoot the body after mistakenly believing she might still be alive.
04:15.390 --> 04:27.663
[SPEAKER_02]: The level of organization and control demonstrated by the offender or fenders, deeply disturbed investigators, and permanently transformed public perception of child predators in America.
04:28.644 --> 04:34.330
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm David McClamm, and I'm LaDonna Humphrey, and tonight on the Extinguished Podcast.
04:35.113 --> 04:57.206
[SPEAKER_02]: We are examining the case of the Oakland County child killer, a case that remains one of the most hunting unsolved child murder investigations in American history, not simply because it remains unsolved, but because nearly every detail surrounding these murders reveals something deeply unsettling about predators,
04:57.766 --> 05:07.450
[SPEAKER_02]: communities and the systems that failed vulnerable children doing one of the most fearful periods in modern American criminal history.
05:08.510 --> 05:19.074
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think one of the reasons David, this case, still resonates so powerfully, nearly 50 years later, is because it completely destroyed the public's assumptions about what danger looked like.
05:19.994 --> 05:23.916
[SPEAKER_00]: During the 70s, many American children still lived with enormous freedom.
05:25.056 --> 05:26.277
[SPEAKER_00]: compared to what we see today.
05:26.577 --> 05:27.518
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, think about it.
05:27.558 --> 05:32.302
[SPEAKER_00]: Kids walked to stores alone, children rode bicycles across neighborhoods unsupervised.
05:33.423 --> 05:48.455
[SPEAKER_00]: Young teenagers wandered shopping events, skating rinks, bowling alleys, arcades, and convenient stores with very little adult concern, because communities still believed familiar parody, itself created safety.
05:49.276 --> 05:51.097
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can remember being told,
05:53.159 --> 05:56.442
[SPEAKER_00]: I would never tell my children that in this day and age.
05:57.142 --> 05:58.603
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're on life 360.
05:59.384 --> 06:00.705
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's where we're at.
06:00.845 --> 06:01.966
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what about you David?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm an Arkansas-Euron California.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, saying, I mean, we were raising the same era.
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[SPEAKER_02]: My mom would be like, see, when you get home, there's be home for the students to go on.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You can't do that today.
06:13.230 --> 06:16.692
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, through Apple, I'm tracking my whole family all the time where they are.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So, times has definitely changed.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It definitely has.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, with the Oakland County murders, you know, something was exposed.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was like this terrifying weakness that that belief system that we all thought was okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This weakness of,
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[SPEAKER_00]: hey, maybe something is really wrong and we need to have some more safety measures in place for kids.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That was, I think, a real wake up call in the 70s because these children were not abducted through force in broad daylight with witnesses screaming for help.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They actually vanished very quietly and calmly and efficiently, which strongly suggests the person responsible
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[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And investigators believe the Fender likely appeared trustworthy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They were possibly an authoritarian of some sort.
07:10.140 --> 07:14.945
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were capable of making children feel comfortable enough to approach them voluntarily.
07:16.026 --> 07:29.109
[SPEAKER_00]: Witnesses described men who looked ordinary, men who blended into suburban life, men standing beside common vehicles and parking lots, men who did not appear threatening immediately.
07:29.809 --> 07:41.172
[SPEAKER_00]: And that reality is exactly what continues to make this case so psychologically disturbing, even now, because the greatest predators are often not the people communities fear instinctively.
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[SPEAKER_02]: See when people discuss the Oakland County child killer today, the conversation often becomes consumed by suspects, theories, composite sketches, DNA evidence, mysterious letters, and speculations surrounding whether one offender or multiple offenders were responsible.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There have been theories involving organized abuse networks, theories involving child pornography operations, theories involving wealthy suspects with political influence, and theories involving multiple coordinated predators operating together, rather than a single serial offender.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Investigators examined thousands upon thousands of tips over the years.
08:28.551 --> 08:43.194
[SPEAKER_02]: The task force reportedly investigated more than 18,000 leads, questioned countless individuals, and even uncovered a multi-state child pornography reign connected to North Fox Island during the broader investigation.
08:44.114 --> 08:49.735
[SPEAKER_02]: But beneath all of those theories and investigative rabbit holes lies something much more important.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This case primarily altered how America understood predators, because these murders reveal that child predators do not necessarily survive through brute force or obvious violence.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They survive through patience, manipulation, familiarity, grooming, behavior, and society's willingness to underestimate them.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The victims in this case, who are
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[SPEAKER_02]: Mark's deb is disappeared while walking home less than a mile from the American Legion Hall where his mother worked.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Joe Robinson vannes after leaving her house, following a family argument.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Christine Mahelik disappeared after walking alone to a similar level for candy in a magazine.
09:34.465 --> 09:40.091
[SPEAKER_02]: Timothy King vannes after skateboarding to a pharmacy for candy while it's just prepared to leave for the movies.
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[SPEAKER_02]: None of those scenarios would have appeared extraordinarily dangerous to many parents doing that era.
09:47.140 --> 09:50.662
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is exactly why this case shattered the public's ecologically.
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[SPEAKER_02]: If forced communities to recognize that purters could move invisibly through ordinary suburban life while appearing completely normal to the people around them, the details
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[SPEAKER_02]: Mark Stephens had rope burns on his wrist and ankles.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Evidence, he had been restrained doing captivity.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Joe Robinson had apparently been fed and cared for before death.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Christine Mahelik was held for nearly 19 days before being murdered, less than 24 hours prior to discovery.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And Timothy King had eaten fried chicken, surely before death.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Reportedly, his favorite food and having to wash with medical grades so before his body was discarded.
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[SPEAKER_02]: White dog hairs, repeatedly appeared on victims, witnesses repeatedly described dark color Pontiacs near the abduction in disposal locations, yet despite all of those details, despite the largest murder investigation in America at the time, despite decades of renewed forensic analysis, the killer has never officially been identified.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think one of the most heartbreaking aspects of this case, David, is realizing how many failures surrounded the investigation from the very beginning.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Think about it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Crime scenes were contaminated.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Evidence was mishandled.
11:23.002 --> 11:28.707
[SPEAKER_00]: Investigators reportedly bagged clothing improperly before forensic teams processed the scenes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: police placed blankets over bodies that potentially compromised evidence.
11:36.330 --> 11:51.082
[SPEAKER_00]: Early assumptions about runaway behavior delayed urgency in some of the situations, and witness information shifted over time as fear spread throughout Oakland County, and media coverage was intensifying and people were just terrified.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And even now, decades later, many decades later, there remains enormous disagreement over vehicle suspects, timelines, and forensic interpretations connected to those murders.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And yet, despite all those investigative problems, one reality remains absolutely undeniable, I think.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the fact that these children mattered, their lives mattered, and their families mattered.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and the fear created by these murders fundamentally changed American parenting forever.
12:25.280 --> 12:26.220
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely forever.
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[SPEAKER_00]: People who grew up during the late 70s often describe the Oakland County case, as one of the moments that ended a certain kind of childhood innocence in suburban America.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Parents stopped allowing children to roam as freely,
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[SPEAKER_00]: Stranger Danger campaigns intensified.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Communities became more fearful.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Media coverage surrounding missing and abducted children, it increased dramatically during the years that followed.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And in many ways, this case became part of the foundation for modern, American fear surrounding child abduction itself.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But beyond fear is something even more important and that's the humanity of the victims.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Mark was a little boy who was boarded a pool tournament who simply wanted to go home and watch television.
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[SPEAKER_00]: When he put it in that perspective, it's heartbreaking.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Jill was a pre-teen girl struggling emotionally after her parents divorced and a recent move.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Christine, she still believed in Santa Claus.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Timothy was described as social, athletic, intelligent, and he was deeply loved by his family.
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[SPEAKER_00]: they should not have been headlines.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They were real human beings whose lives ended in terror and confusion, while their families spent decades trapped between grief and unanswered questions.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's why this case, it still matters.
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[SPEAKER_00]: In cases like this, still matter.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Not because they're sensational, because definitely, we've seen tons of people cover this case, right, you know, podcasters, authors, you name it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to talk about this because it was sensational or mysterious.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think the unresolved violence leaves emotional wreckage in that stretches across generations.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we need to think about that as well.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's all you agree.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And perhaps the most disturbing truth surrounding this case is that the psychological patterns we've built by these murders still exist today.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Punisher still rely on trust.
14:38.544 --> 14:41.466
[SPEAKER_02]: They still possess themselves inside familiar environments.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They still exploit vulnerable children.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They still manipulate communities that desperately want to believe danger exists somewhere else.
14:51.332 --> 15:01.299
[SPEAKER_02]: And society still struggles to confront uncomfortable truths when those truths threaten familiar institutions, familiar people, or familiar environments.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That is why the extinguished podcasts is focusing on cases like this moving forward.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Because these stories are not merely historical mysteries, they are warnings.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Warnings about silence.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Warnings about blind trust.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Warnings about grooming and manipulation.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Warnings about what happens when communities underestimate predators in this miserable children.
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[SPEAKER_02]: In nearly 50 years later,
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[SPEAKER_02]: as they were in 1977.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That is so true.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That is so true, David.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for tuning in.
15:40.582 --> 15:52.530
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that this is a different format and it's going to take a little bit of time for our listeners to maybe adjust, but I hope that you appreciate the focus that we now have for extinguished and we appreciate you tuning in.
15:53.775 --> 16:02.958
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, most definitely, for all you guys that hung with us, it's been one of those long-hightest as we know, but we do appreciate you, and thank you for staying tuned.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And remember, as some stories disappear because time passes, but others disappear because silence helped bury them.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And when we stop speaking their names, stop asking questions, and stop searching for truth.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Their lives risk being extinguished all over again.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for joining us and we'll catch you on the next episode.
