Sharmila Tagore Interview on Her Upcoming Film, Family & State of Cinema

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Welcome to another episode of Express Conversations, a podcast where
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eminent voices from the world of politics, governance, sports, business
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and arts talk to us about their life, work and
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issues that really matter. In this episode, we will hear
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from legendary actor Sharmula Tagore. Our guest is in conversation
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with Akashtushi and Charlotta Biswastap Proverty from The Indian Express.
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In this episode, Sharmila Ji talks about her recent film
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Outhouse and shares engaging anecdotes and behind the scenes stories
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from her extraordinary tenure in the film industry.
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First question, I wanted to ask you one, what was
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it like with working with doctor Adashi and what drew
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you to the film? And what was what drew you
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to doing out House at this point, because it's rare
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for us to see protagonists of a certain age, you know,
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they say we are a very even the trailer started
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with your geared violence, of course, but towards the young,
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the young, the young. So why out Housing? What was
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it like the experience?
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First of all, well, I heard the script first. I
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absolutely love the script because it's a very simple story,
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absolutely simple, and it's there is no no dramatic moments
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as such, but it's a very real life thing, like
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how my grandson is kept. The parents are busy, so
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she's going for a conference and the father is going
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somewhere else, so they leave the son and I have
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no idea. I'm eagerly waiting for my grandson to come.
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But then I didn't know that there was a dog involved.
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So when I see the dog, I'm absolutely outraged. I
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don't want a dog in the house. I said, please
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take him away, and it's too late. They have a
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plane to catch and they're in a rush, and they're
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always in a rush that generation. So they leave, and anyway,
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I don't want it in the house, so I keep
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them outside, keep the dog outside and give him reluctantly
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some water or something to eat, I mean dog friendly food,
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and then I go in. And the next morning, the
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dog is missing, and the dog has followed mohanagashe the
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character that he plays. He's walking on the road and
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the dog follows him and ends up with him. And
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meanwhile my grandson has gone wild and he says, where
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is the dog? And I want Pablo, and you know,
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he's absolutely and I keep telling him that, okay, I
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put it on a WhatsApp group will try. We are
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looking for it, but he's inconsolable and there he doesn't
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know how to look after the dog and how to
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feed it, how to deal with his hoops and you
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know all that. So that's how the story develops. And
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it's a just finding the dog and how we steal
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it back from him, and then how he comes to
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look for it, et cetera. So it's just that, but
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it's beautiful moments and the child and the the how
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my and the little tension, the marital tension between my
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son and my son in law, So all these things
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are happening, happening simultaneously in this man who's living alone
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and a very grumpy old man, you know, he's always
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saying things, and then how his son comes to him.
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So it's basically about I who's living alone and yet
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not really lonely and very self reliant, and he is
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also in his own way very self reliant and become
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from very different class completely and his son is wanting
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to sell the house and because he wants his son
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to go to go abroad for education. So so all
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that dussle, but yet the love for the children and
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he tells him that why do you guys treat me
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as a child. The tendency of the young towards the
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old is like to say that, you know, you don't
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know what you're doing and look after yourself and you
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know that kind of thing, but like treating them as
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a child. And then he wants him to move to
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Bombay with him, and he says, no, I'm very happy
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where I am. I've got my own life. And I
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also say that I've got my own life. I'm very
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self reliant. I don't really want to live with my children.
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So basically it's about that.
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So this you touched on this as one age is
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and as there's it need not be loneliness, but it
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can be solitude if you're good about it. But from
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even your personal life, how do you see and but
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even for characters you know there's angst and opu from
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where there is also the loneliness or they're dealing with that,
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how do you see dealing with being alone? From from
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when you were playing younger characters or in films with
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younger characters too. Now, when you.
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Mentioned that was also very interesting. I don't know how
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many of you have seen it. That was my first
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film nineteen fifty nine, many many moons and years ago.
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So that was also very you know, it was not
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in the book. It's a very famous book of bib.
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So this was what Shotjitrai put in because there was
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child marriages in the sense that young girls at the
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age of thirteen was getting married. But the concept of
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living with your husband either you lived on in your
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parental home or you went to your in last place,
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but a nuclear family, just husband and wife living alone
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was unheard of. So that was Ray's contribution. So so
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that was my first film. You know, there is there is.
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The loneliness of someone or being alone and dealing with
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the world changing, and then there is changing as an
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aging character or dealing with children.
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No, I don't think I was lonely in Shansha, No, no,
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not at all, because I had thousand and one things
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to do as a child at thirteen. She was, you know,
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preparing the oven and making ends meet with no money
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at all, and dealing with neighbors. So there was everybody,
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all women young and old, young or old have lots
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to do at home. You know, their work is completely
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you know, goes on and on and on, unending, really
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because a man goes to work and he just that
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work and comes back and a little bit of dealing
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with bosses, et cetera. But women are responsible for everything,
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you know, from the drain to the air conditioners to well, okay,
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not air conditioners but fans or whatever. So they're answerable
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and they have to manage with what they have, which
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is I don't know how they do it. I know
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of people who make different packets for you know, electricity, water,
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et cetera. So I think they're you know, it's a
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different set of skills that you need. So I don't
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think she was lonely, And most certainly my character in
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Outhouses not lonely, because I have a wonderful work as
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a cartoonist and I'm doing that and I'm very happy
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with my house and my little bit of garden and
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whatever else. And so I don't think loneliness came into either's.
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Life, like your character now, but also you in real life.
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And I give us a great interview in the Union Express,
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my colleague and rather mascaralas, I just wanted to talk
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one minute about that, that how it can be the
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new sixty, how you've managed it, and how you know
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I know, the younger lot in the audience. It seems
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all very far away, but it comes quicker than you think.
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I've never really consciously thought. I've never really consciously counted
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that I'm you know, fifteen or twenty or thirty or forty.
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I think when I was thirty, I was a little
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oh my god, I'm thirty. Yes, I think at that
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time I was a little conscious of you know, I
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looked at the mirror and sort of if there is
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any huge changes from one day to another. But otherwise
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I take one day at a time. And of course,
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I mean I can't run after Inaya. Now I've got
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a little dog, Archie, and most certainly I can't run
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after him. It's like having a baby at eighty. You know,
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it's impossible. And he wants me to play with him,
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and I can't do that really, And so yeah, things change.
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You don't have the same energy. But I don't think
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there is any any huge difference, except like I said,
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you know, you're losing your muscles, so you have to
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make sure that you don't. I think exercise and muscle
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toning and all that is important. So you have to
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take a little bit of more care of yourself. But
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other that, you know, the books give you pleasure. I
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take inspiration for everything. I love nature. I mean, in
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Delhi it's a bit difficult. Sometimes you don't see the
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sun for days in Delhi in the winter. But once
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upon a time it was really a blue sky and
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we used to sit out and have tea with surrounded
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with seasonal flowers, and it was quite different, not so
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long ago. But yes, but I think of late the
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sky has cleared up and it's looking much better, and
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sometimes we glimpse the blue sky. So it's a challenge
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for the state and for all of us to keep
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our city clean, which we are doing. But I get inspired.
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But so many things, like there are people. I went
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one to Hajuraha, I remember from Hobile. We drove and
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there was a couple of my friends had come from
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England and she was very interested and he was reading
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a book all the way to Kajurao and back. I said,
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but don't you want to look out of the window
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and see this. Kajurau road is not as interesting perhaps,
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but in Delhi or Kolkata, there's it's a living theater
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out there, you know, Like when I used to I
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did a film with Amalpallica called Samantha. So I used
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to leave my house in Kolkata and go to Bali
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quite a distance, living early in the morning, and on
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either side people were still waking up, and somebody even
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had a chart pis with a mosquito net sitting up
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you sleeping outside, and then children crossing the road and
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somebody making them cross the road, and then there was
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a coming back. We could see that there's a light
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hanging from somewhere, and there's a table and four people
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playing caron. There's so many things out there to see.
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And once I saw somebody boy being naughty and he
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was being slapped. Somebody's bathing, you know, in the tube.
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So there are a lot of things that are going
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on all around us. And if we just we just
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have to open our eyes and absorb that and experience it.
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And when you really cannot respond to your surroundings, I
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think that's the time you begin to perhaps get old.
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If there's such a word, is there? The idea is
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to get along and observe and see people and have
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lots of young friends because they have so much to
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say and it's interesting, you know. Sometimes when we are
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talking we're talking about there's somebody told us that how
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conversation changes when you are young, you know, young girls,
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they're talking about boys and you know, who's that interesting guy?
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And has he called you or has he written to you?
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Or whatever? There's about boys. Then you get married and
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you have these marital problems you discuss with each other.
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Then you have children. Then you're talking about maids. You know,
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which is a good maid and when do you find
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a good maid? And my maid has left, and that's
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the conversation. Then it becomes aches and pains. Today's my
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knees hurting and my back is hurting, and so and teeth. Yes,
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that's how it happened because we had gone to one
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of my mother and laws friends and they were talking
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about dentures, that how the dentures fit and not fit
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and if it's loose and you cannot eat. So that
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was the conversation. So I said it over the years,
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and a friend of mine made a lovely little movie
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about this, and what not to talk about is your
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aches and pains. Nobody is interested. So the idea is
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to listen to people because a lot of people just
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talk at each other, you know. And I've seen really
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at parties, you ask a question of somebody before that
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person has had an answer, you answered it yourself and
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you've carried on talking. You haven't even heard. And actually
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there are experts who know about it, but I'm giving
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the expert you know, like talking to Amjad then talking
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about the music to that kind of thing that reminds me,
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isn't It's so sad about Za. I haven't really lost
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a great, great person. And it was such fun to
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hear him, you know, his the kind of sound he
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brought out of you know, I'm really really sorry that
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I feel that during Shakhtia that was the last time.
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I'm glad we went and saw him and that was
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the last time I met him. So yeah, terrible.
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Now I wanted to also, you know, a film like
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Outhouse and then even in a very different way. It's
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a very different film, but let's call it a thing
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that's character script driven from like Gilmore which released on ODT,
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which received great kudos justifiably so from everywhere. There's two things. One,
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there is a sense now that across film industries, but
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certain Indian film industries, but certainly the Hindi film industry.
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The making of story driven stuff is moving to the platforms.
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It is now laptop viewing or at home viewing, whereas
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in the back the theater is no longer the space
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where great films are even interesting slice of life films,
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the smaller character driven, person driven, writer driven film can
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be made or seen. I just wanted to get your
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sense of that.
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As you said, now you're surrounded by screens of different sizes.
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You can see a film in your cell phone. There
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is so much happening, and then you've got a bigger screen,
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and then you've got these bigger screen But the pleasure
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of watching a film in a theater, in a in
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a cinema hall with lots of other people, is it different?
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You know that those what do you call them? Those
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what's the word? Actual word? One screen, single screen theater.
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That was a different experience, you know, not like leaning
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back and popcorn and all that, but it was just
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the sheer uh viewing with so many different kinds of people.
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You know, there was those people who sat, and then
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you were on the dress circle, so it was a
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and and then when the it's exactly the same place,
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people reacted. So one realized that how how a film
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can bring people together. You know, that's exactly the same
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place everywhere in the in the in the country. People
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get bored at the same place, people laugh at the
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same place. And how commonalities far exceed our differences, and
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how even the uh, the the social status, et cetera
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is not a bar and it's it's it's a wonderful
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experience and that multiplexes have robbed us from that experience
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and now people go and it's a it's a different thing.
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You don't really respond the way a film needs to
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be responded to.
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You know, is it it's also we see I mean
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I create Devil's advocate form.
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But you know that.
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The theater the distance between the theater hit and the
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non theater. If so, I mean say what you used
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to be parallel cinema or cinema and mainstream cinema that's disappeared.
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That's is it disappearing or is it that the you know,
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the spectacle is still a big extreme. You have specialty
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films from the south or now what we would call
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that sensibility in different languages. You know there's big action
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or big just larger than life is for the big screen,
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but it is not it is especially in him the cinema,
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one would say, because people are saying from the South specially,
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you know, there's some small interesting films emerging that there
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is I mean, there are no in to nationally great
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Indian filmmakers. File Copardia has done very well right now,
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but like I mean, like that, generations after that, say
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from the eighties maybe nineties onwards, that have we focused
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on the commercial side of cinema so much and at
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the expense of the artistic side, and maybe that's brought
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down both.
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I firmly believe that after nineties, when the films opened up,
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really because we started seeing world cinema. To some extent,
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still we don't see world cinema, but we saw American
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cinemas and other cinemas that came to us. So and
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even through television, a lot of cinemas came to us.
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So the audience grew up, so to speak. They were
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more matured and there was a lot of churning. They
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were better prepared to accept new plots, new angles, and
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more open like in Gulmarho the last scene of my
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you know, winking at once upon a time, probably it
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wouldn't have been accepted, but it was accepted and people
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also liked it. You know, I was quite worried that,
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you know, I've got an image and people might just
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laugh or might say that, you know, this is not
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right for her stature to you know, But none of
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that happened. So I think we've moved on. The audience
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have moved on, and they have more appetite for different
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kind of films. And Otiti has normalized a lot of things.
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And so but then again that's the screen and the
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screen and what you what you're saying about this big
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budget films, it is becoming a little top heavy, and
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I am personally quite concerned that the actors are charging
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such a huge amount. It is not really and they
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traveled with you know, with cooks and people who massage
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and lots of people. Maybe a companion also talks to them.
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I'm not sure, but they do really, And my I
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did something an ad film or something, so a person
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who does my makeup and my hair. He was saying,
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now there is a competition. How big your trailer is.
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So earlier it was just a vanity. So you have
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a essential purpose of that is that we have a
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little privacy. It's air conditioned and you have a mirror
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and you dress up and it's a long mirror if
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you're wearing a sari or how you look like. I'm
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worried about how far my trowsers are writing. So anyway,
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00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:57.799
so you see of yourself. But now you have one room,
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00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:02.079
then another room for meeting, and another room perhaps for resting.
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And that's kind of a criteria like how important you are,
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et cetera. So it's moving away from the real thing,
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which is performing, which is you know, in front of
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the camera. From what is essential is from start sound
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to cut. That's what is being recorded, and that's going
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for post production, and that's that is what is it's
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all about. So so all these other factors of who
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is who and there's number one, number two, So all
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that is unnecessary. I feel, of course, you know, making money,
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that's very good, and you're and why I'm making money
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because you're popular. People are coming to see your films.
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But for the actor to be so conscious about who
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you are, I think is moving away from reality. And
335
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if you're moving away, how do you depict real people?
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You know? How do you understand how humor is changing
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or how you know, like Charlie Chaplin, like a guy
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00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:15.119
walking into a it's a funeral, it's a very somber affair,
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and he trips and falls and everybody starts laughing. It's
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the timing. So all those things are more important than
341
00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:27.720
what shoes you're wearing or what you know. But that
342
00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:32.079
seems to have become very important for actors, and we
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were when we were receiving awards. For instance, when I
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got the Best Actress about for Arda and Aiji Vahidadji,
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everyone came. Everyone came and sat and Kishore Kumar sang
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on the stage. So it was a kind of filmed
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fraternity celebration, not Shemula to go celebration. So everybody participated.
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Now you have a show, then some people will come
349
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much later. So suppose you're sitting on the first row,
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00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:13.279
another row of chairs would be put so then a
351
00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:17.640
listers will come and nobody talks to anybody like you
352
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:19.480
don't go up and say hi, how are you? And
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I haven't seen you for so long? And well done?
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You got this a what everybody waits for that photo
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of or whatever, and then they leave and if you're
356
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not getting any award, you don't go. So it's not
357
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:36.039
like oscars for instances. That's not like that. So it's
358
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a celebration of films. So it's things have changed a lot.
359
00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.000
So I don't think for the better this aspect, But
360
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.799
on the other aspect, the churning and the different kinds
361
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of films that we're making. Lapata Lady's Crew, for instance,
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00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:55.759
nobody would have believed that three girls can do this,
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no matter how impossible that sound. But actually they did it,
364
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and we lapped it up. I mean I loved it.
365
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:08.839
You know, it was fun. The idea that women can
366
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:11.839
do like wee w. I mean, of course that's already
367
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:15.839
an old film. The idea that a woman can look
368
00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:20.160
after a father, nobody would have They would have scoffed
369
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:23.640
at it. And even when there was Menald Said et cetera,
370
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:29.200
were making films about women who were going up to work.
371
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Their money was appreciated, but they were not appreciated because
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you're a fallen woman if you're going out to work.
373
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And then working in films. When I joined films was
374
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deeply frowned upon, and therefore the film industry also withdrew.
375
00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:48.400
They had their own little club or own little social
376
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.640
interactions because they also stayed away from the society. Was
377
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:57.839
very judgmental. They saw their films but didn't think especially again,
378
00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:01.480
it was the women who were really that actress were accepted,
379
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:06.160
but women were not accepted because it was a profession.
380
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:09.279
Was not You didn't give yourself enough credit for being
381
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:11.799
far ahead of your time even then, right, and of
382
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:17.079
course there's see, working after getting married was something that
383
00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:19.640
very few actresses did till very recently.
384
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:23.359
It was so they felt that because the audience would,
385
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:27.200
you know, move away from them, because now that they're married,
386
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:31.839
because a different kind of and even I felt that,
387
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:35.640
you know, once upon a time we'll be whistled at
388
00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:40.480
or you know, that kind of admiration. I remember going
389
00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:46.759
to Hyderabad with no So yeah, when you get married,
390
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:49.000
a different kind of respect comes. And then when you
391
00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:52.400
become a mother, then you've joined the collective, you know,
392
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.759
then you're part of So I remember going to Hyderabad
393
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:59.880
and at that time, I don't know, the train goes
394
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:03.519
went somewhere and the car had to come from Hyderabad
395
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:05.880
to collect me. So I got there about two o'clock
396
00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:08.200
in the morning and I got down with my maid,
397
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:13.839
et cetera. And within seconds the crowd gathered but smiths
398
00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:17.440
and make space for heart, Take her to the waiting room,
399
00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:21.079
get herself, get her a chair. Does the you know,
400
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:23.519
does your son need your the milk to be bombed?
401
00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:27.799
A different kind of reception altogether. And when I was
402
00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:32.240
shooting for Ornated Indra three in Chippada hurt. So we
403
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:36.880
had come from Chippada hurt and came to Rachi and
404
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:41.759
we were mobbed because we were surrounded by thousands of
405
00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:45.079
people and they wouldn't let us go, and somebody said,
406
00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:50.279
hum palanad train jeladenge. They were sitting on the track.
407
00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:53.359
We were stuck there for three to four hours, and
408
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:57.759
one poor Russian lady was locked up in the bathroom.
409
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:01.480
And then they finally there said okay, schavlatego has to
410
00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:05.599
go there, you know. So I went out to the
411
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:08.759
other gate. They threw some madetta or whatever they did,
412
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:11.680
and then we were allowed to leave. So from there
413
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:16.480
to there and from now, so you can see the
414
00:27:16.519 --> 00:27:21.119
audience reacting to you differently so that time, because I
415
00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:24.559
got married and I got children and now I'm old,
416
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:28.000
so there is that perception.
417
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:31.359
But you'd actually broken a few mores in your time.
418
00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:32.720
I want to know all the challenges of that.
419
00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:35.279
Because I think I came from a very different kind
420
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:41.720
of family. I was Jinago's daughter in Kolkata. You know,
421
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:47.000
I knew you know, I knew who I was, So
422
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:52.559
I had a kind of self confidence, perhaps the right
423
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:56.960
kind of confidence, and I didn't really much care about
424
00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.920
what others said about me because I knew what I was.
425
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:03.279
I was exactly the same then as I am now.
426
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:07.519
I haven't changed very much. I've grown and I've become
427
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:15.640
more exposed to wonderful things which have added to myself
428
00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:21.640
who I am today. But my thinking of behavior wasn't
429
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:24.160
any different. But because I lived alone in a hotel,
430
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:28.720
I was not chaperoned. People had different types. So I
431
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:34.039
became a social suspect because everybody else belonged to Maharashtra,
432
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:40.160
belonged to you know, they could accept them or they
433
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:44.000
followed you know, they were chaperone. They were white. They
434
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:48.319
didn't have alcohol openly or smoked openly. If they did,
435
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.880
it would be in private. So I was different, so
436
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:57.279
they didn't They couldn't work me out, let's put it
437
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:00.319
that way. So I was perhaps a bad girl. Then
438
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:05.119
once I settled with Tiger, the perception changed. So people
439
00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:14.039
have perceptions because of the society at that time, and
440
00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:18.559
if they don't understand somebody or something, they tend to
441
00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:22.319
judge it from their point of view, so you cannot.
442
00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:25.240
Really there are many people out there with many different
443
00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:30.400
thoughts and expectations, and I'm alone here, one person. So
444
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:32.480
if I can't please you and you and you and
445
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:35.319
you and you, I can't. It's not possible, So why
446
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:38.400
even go there? And if I know I'm doing something
447
00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:46.039
right and my I think my support and affirmation came
448
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:50.279
from my family and my friends, and as long as
449
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:54.000
I had them, I didn't really I wouldn't say I
450
00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:57.720
didn't care when of course, if somebody wrote badly about you,
451
00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:01.519
it hurts. I mean, we're all people with emotions. But
452
00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:06.440
my way of dealing with it was not to read it,
453
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.240
because if you read something, it hurts. But if I
454
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:13.720
don't read it, and you are telling me that this
455
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:16.200
was written about you, it's not so bad. So I
456
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:21.519
wouldn't take film magazine so read about it. But here
457
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:22.200
I am today.
458
00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:27.720
But it's interesting you say this because now celebrities, of course,
459
00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:29.880
but also you know a lot of young people that
460
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:33.160
now everyone is open to criticism. When you're on social media,
461
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:36.240
we're all putting lives out there in a way that
462
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:39.559
it wasn't so in the past untill fairly recent past.
463
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:43.640
Actually it was show how we started now, yeah, age
464
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:51.319
largergo and English English English was half English and half fly.
465
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:56.359
So she started tongue in cheek kind of journalism.
466
00:30:57.079 --> 00:31:00.000
Absolutely, I was saying that now you're you're also, I mean, nowadays,
467
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:02.559
legacy is the big word. You know in the Hindi
468
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:05.480
film industry. You're actually, I mean there's a longer legacy,
469
00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:08.720
but you've established at least a matriline in the Hindi
470
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:12.200
film industry. There is the matrilineal legacy that starts witching.
471
00:31:12.039 --> 00:31:13.200
Willowt to go in some ways.
472
00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:17.319
How do you say, now, Sarah, your granddaughter is a
473
00:31:17.559 --> 00:31:20.160
well known young actress, which she is doing this in
474
00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:24.359
this world now she's breaking through one as a known person. Second,
475
00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:28.440
in a world where scrutiny, whether it is on for
476
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:31.279
your body, for your work, for your personal life, for
477
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:35.559
your action and engaging with it is part of the business. Now,
478
00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:37.519
I mean, you have to be out there on this
479
00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:38.559
social media.
480
00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:39.319
How do you.
481
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:41.799
See and then you know both self and sohar, you
482
00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:44.079
know both your children as well. How do you see
483
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:48.400
the nature of being a public facing actor changing and
484
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.000
what advice do you give them?
485
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:55.720
You know, actually Sarah is the one who told me
486
00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:59.960
that Byama, this is you know, you can't ignore it.
487
00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:06.039
You don't have to engage with it totally, but you
488
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:13.119
can't sort of rubbish it and can't you know, can't
489
00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:16.319
say bad things about it. You know, you have to.
490
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:21.000
So I absolutely understand what you're saying. I could can't
491
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:25.440
give advice to anybody, but I think you should be
492
00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:30.480
yourself because the person who's interviewing me, or sometimes you're
493
00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:33.359
in a hurry and sometimes you know somebody just and
494
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:35.680
you're not prepared for that question, or you're at a
495
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:43.359
you're probably having an argument with somebody and they they
496
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:46.720
they take a picture and that becomes the headline. So
497
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:49.920
it is a kind of intrusion to your privacy. But
498
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.440
at the same time, you have to you have to
499
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:56.200
accept it that it's there a you have to be
500
00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:59.839
nice to them and shouldn't make a face because then
501
00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:04.279
it will be photographed and you will suffer. And also
502
00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:07.319
if you accept them, once you accept them and say that, listen,
503
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.039
you know I'll fall if you do that, or I'll uh,
504
00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:14.119
you know, I'm in a hurry. I think they accept,
505
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:18.799
but maybe not from Sarah's age. So everybody has to
506
00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:23.559
deal with it because there's no point wishing it away.
507
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:26.839
So you have to understand the nature of the beast
508
00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:31.839
and deal with it because you have no control over
509
00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:35.680
your environment as such, but you have control over yourself
510
00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:40.359
and your option is what to do. And I think
511
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:45.079
if you engage with it, the solution will come to you.
512
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:47.640
That this is how you deal with it. And at
513
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:50.559
the end of the day, behind that camera there is
514
00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:54.200
a human being, So he's not really out. He's not
515
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:57.279
your enemy as such, but he has a job to
516
00:33:57.319 --> 00:33:59.759
do and you have a job to do. And how
517
00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:02.160
you maintain your prevac You don't have to really quote
518
00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:06.640
them and speak in excess. I mean, you have to
519
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:09.519
be careful what you say, how you look. It is
520
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:14.119
a I think that comes with the packet. I mean,
521
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:16.639
if you're going to be a public figure, then you
522
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:20.800
have to know how to act in public and what
523
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:23.800
to say in public. When when I say public out
524
00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:28.440
there on social media, because everybody doesn't you know, and
525
00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:35.239
people are looking out for sensation, you know, it's it's
526
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:40.119
a thrill. Somebody is just doing the same right thing.
527
00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:42.679
That's not news. But if somebody is doing something that
528
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:46.280
is not quite so right, then that's news. So I guess, uh,
529
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:48.639
you just have to learn how to.
530
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:53.760
Live in filmmaking. Now one part there is one gets
531
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:58.199
the sense sometimes it is there now, both commercially and
532
00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:01.960
in terms of sensitivity, that people are more Do you
533
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:05.559
find that Do you think that cinema today is more
534
00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:09.000
scared to be honest than it used to? Because of one?
535
00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:12.800
Social media means that any film is open to criticism
536
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:15.880
by anyone. Earlier it would be a paper, but now
537
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.039
you've almost digitized. You can call it the mob, you
538
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:21.079
can call it the critic, you can depending on how
539
00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:25.480
they're acting. Do you think that affects actors, directors, writers
540
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:28.360
as they're going in towards trying to make a film,
541
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:29.639
Because filmmaking.
542
00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:31.840
Is well, you have to know that. I was also
543
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:35.920
chairing CBSC for seven years, so I found that lot
544
00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:40.519
of I can understand that because if you've made a
545
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:44.199
film and you have done it the way you wanted to,
546
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:48.199
you don't want anyone to mess with it. You don't want.
547
00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:53.440
But I feel if you take a overall view a
548
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:57.840
little a little away from if you step back and
549
00:35:57.880 --> 00:35:59.880
look at things. I think you can look at it
550
00:36:00.039 --> 00:36:03.639
a little bit more clearly. And if you feel that
551
00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:08.119
this is not going to gel with audience in general,
552
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:12.360
and this is going to create a problem, your film
553
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:16.880
will get stalled, your film will be you know, somebody
554
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:21.559
will cause disruption in the theater. What is the point?
555
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:28.599
What is the point by sticking onto that one thing? Yes,
556
00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:34.079
if it's an ideologically the whole thing is will be
557
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:38.039
offensive to people. So perhaps you should think because after all,
558
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:42.320
the business of filmmaking is expensive and a lot of
559
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:46.239
people's lives depend depend on it, career depend on it.
560
00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:50.639
So if the audience is going to be upset or
561
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:56.079
sit ten of the audience, why risk it? I feel
562
00:36:56.599 --> 00:36:59.639
it's not like writing a book. I can say what
563
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:03.719
I want and I will personally be damaged. But here
564
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:06.880
you're taking a team. It's like an engine that you know,
565
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:10.840
I personally feel. I mean, I don't know whether you'll
566
00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:15.000
say that I'm prone to compromise, but I think life
567
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:19.800
is a bit, you know, navigating the middle part. So
568
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:24.039
to speak, a lot of my activist friends, a lot
569
00:37:24.039 --> 00:37:29.079
of my film friends would I mean, they said, what
570
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:31.079
do you mean by middle path? It's either here or
571
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:35.199
they're like in This Man for All Seasons that he
572
00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:38.360
says that if you're watting holding water in your hand,
573
00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:40.639
you know, like this, and if you say, I'll make
574
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:44.360
a little compromise, the water will flow out, which is true.
575
00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:50.840
But I think living a life is not very easy
576
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:54.079
these days, so I think you have to bring all
577
00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:58.039
your experience to it and think in a way that
578
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:02.400
would serve you and serve others. I have a feeling,
579
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:05.800
so I think, and you can still say lots of things.
580
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:08.679
You can still say what you want to say. You
581
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:13.159
can still make a very good film, so don't have
582
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:15.840
to do it the harsh way where things will come
583
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:18.880
back and hit you. And I don't think there is
584
00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:22.280
any need. I mean, you can make excellent films. Also,
585
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:24.199
I feel I might be wrong.
586
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:26.960
Do you think one of the criticisms of the CBFC
587
00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:31.719
and the architecture that behind it is that rather than
588
00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:34.400
a certification agency, And that's one of the things that
589
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:37.480
Indian films maybe suffer from, is that instead of getting
590
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:39.840
a rating everywhere in the world, films get a rating.
591
00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:43.280
Our rating in America means adults only, sex.
592
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:46.719
Violence, or you say that even if it's on television, parent.
593
00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:52.039
And that, and so there's certification, and you can have
594
00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:54.599
wanting saying posts that we've had now for tobacco. Some
595
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:57.000
filmmakers have had problems and Woody Allen it Not doesn't
596
00:38:57.000 --> 00:38:59.960
release his films in Indian theaters because of the tobacco warning,
597
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:02.559
for example. But even if you grant that, do you
598
00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:06.559
think the need the especially because India is a way
599
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:09.280
I mean, you know, politics can change, times can change,
600
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:14.760
you know, is that the asking for cuts? Is it?
601
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:17.000
For many? That is the bridge too far? They can
602
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:18.840
say you want to put a warning, that's right, you
603
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:20.840
want to put a label. You say, no kids, no
604
00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:23.199
one on the eighteen, No one you want you think
605
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:23.800
that's about me?
606
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:29.840
Many factors, you know, the the when the film gets certified,
607
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:34.800
the posters are made earlier. I've forgotten now what exactly
608
00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:38.280
it was hands on I could have answered it better.
609
00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:42.079
But one is a poster thing that they don't write
610
00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:45.719
the A or U A and you know all that.
611
00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:51.880
You so that and there is no other rating except
612
00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:56.880
for universal and adult and U A. The UA is
613
00:39:56.920 --> 00:40:03.079
the only way everybody wants to get in. It's a
614
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:08.119
tricky question. So ideally we should be just a certification.
615
00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:12.239
I think when I was there it more or less
616
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:18.639
was it. A very few things were but except something
617
00:40:18.760 --> 00:40:23.119
that we really felt would harm the producers or effect
618
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:29.360
the actually for their sake. I don't think there was
619
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:33.840
too much of interference from ZBFC at that that point.
620
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:39.280
There was more. The more liberal we became, the more
621
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:45.239
difficult the audience became. So the protests were from groups
622
00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:53.280
representing the audience like this Dan Brown's whatever. So the
623
00:40:53.320 --> 00:40:58.960
Pope didn't object. It was released in Vatican and around Rome,
624
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:03.360
et cetera. But here there was a huge problem, you know,
625
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:09.280
and all the cities, some cities with one particular government
626
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:16.639
bandit I mean. And also the law and order situation
627
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:21.440
is comes under state. So even if we give it
628
00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:25.400
a clear thing in the state government, if there is
629
00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:29.679
if somebody throws a stone or something, then you know
630
00:41:29.719 --> 00:41:32.719
there'll be problems. So people found their way. There was
631
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:38.679
a lot of Joda Agbert. There was one case in Jepur,
632
00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:42.880
one case in Kolkata. One case producer was running from
633
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:48.440
pillar to post. Right, So if there is one particular
634
00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:52.000
court is dealing with all these problems, it's so much easier.
635
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:54.679
So I wanted to be a bridge between the civil
636
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:59.800
society and the government because it is the CBFC is
637
00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:07.280
a information broadcasting ministry, and the government and the audience,
638
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:11.559
the civil society, and one section of the civil society
639
00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:17.599
wanted to do away with censorship altogether, and one section
640
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:20.840
would want it to be more strict. But as a
641
00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:24.519
psychiatric friend of mine said that when a child is
642
00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:29.800
growing up and playing around, if that child is crawling
643
00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:32.320
towards the edge, once you say no, don't do that,
644
00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:39.280
don't do that. We are always trying to find a consensus.
645
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:42.920
So you know, you have to bring all those things
646
00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:45.920
into when you're viewing a film and when you're sitting
647
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:53.840
I mean articulation of you know, expression is guaranteed. Freedom
648
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:56.920
of expression. Freedom of speech is guaranteed by a constitution,
649
00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:00.320
but there is that little clause that says law and
650
00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:05.119
order situation comes then, so so you have to walk
651
00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:11.159
that bridge. It only comes from media experience, and it's
652
00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:13.800
something that you can't quite put it inwards, that what
653
00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:17.000
will upset somebody and what won't, So you have to
654
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:19.679
go for that. So at least that's what I wanted
655
00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:22.960
to bring in my during my tenure.
656
00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:26.000
From that very serious note, my last question before chahdata
657
00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:31.760
comes and has some fun with the archive in out house.
658
00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:34.519
You have wonderful chemistry with the young man who's playing
659
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:37.480
your grandson. Did you draw it all from themor on
660
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:41.519
that the most famous and well liked baby of India
661
00:43:41.719 --> 00:43:43.840
now toddler not on.
662
00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:48.840
His first day through first day was hugely And then
663
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:52.960
the same person became so popular, and then I was asking,
664
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:55.880
I thought he was in a children category popular. Then
665
00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:59.519
I was, no, this is like the most popular of
666
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:06.400
every category. But no, dely quite very quiet person and
667
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:09.679
very preserved and all and Jay of course is all
668
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:13.360
over the place and lovely. So they're very different temperamentally.
669
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:19.800
But a child actor is and he's wonderful. This guy
670
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:23.559
who's acted and working with a child and working with
671
00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:28.880
the animal is very And then I hadn't doctor Mohonagashi
672
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:35.199
was so much better with with the dog Pablo or Sugar,
673
00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:39.039
and I was he was not cooperating with me at all,
674
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:42.280
so we had a little problem there. But working with
675
00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:47.519
this boy was wonderful. He's a very good actor, very
676
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:49.480
good actor. He just had to tell him once and
677
00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:53.519
he got it right. And uh, and of course I'm
678
00:44:53.639 --> 00:44:56.880
very fond of children. I do have lots and lots
679
00:44:56.920 --> 00:45:02.039
of you know, friends, grandchildren, children, because I have a
680
00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:04.800
lot of young friends, so I think they're wonderful and
681
00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:10.079
just watching them it's fun because they want to say something,
682
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:12.880
but they go about it in such a circle and
683
00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:15.559
then so it's have to really listen to them. So
684
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:21.519
I've learned when Seth was growing up, I realized that
685
00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:24.559
I had He was trying to tell me something and
686
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:28.119
I had interrupted thinking I understood what he was saying,
687
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:31.800
and the conversation had gone off at a tangent. So
688
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:35.400
you have to really pay attention because they don't say
689
00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:39.000
directly what they want to say. They sit in a
690
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:42.679
very roundabout way, so you have to pay a lot
691
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:48.239
of attention and listen, and you can't give them instant replies,
692
00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:53.920
like if they want a solution to their problem, I
693
00:45:53.960 --> 00:45:56.800
think you'll have to ask them why, and you know,
694
00:45:56.920 --> 00:46:01.159
engage them in the conversation to get to the truth.
695
00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:04.159
I'll get to the bottom of what they're really asking.
696
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:07.599
If you give a straightforward yes, no answer, then the
697
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:11.480
conversation stops there. So I think I've spent a lot
698
00:46:11.480 --> 00:46:15.360
of time with children and also with UNICEF when I
699
00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:20.199
worked as their ambassador I interacted with lots of HIV
700
00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:29.639
it's young children and also in maternal health site, so
701
00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:32.159
I think I've interacted with a lot of children to
702
00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:35.679
understand them, so I didn't really need them more only
703
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:40.320
but working with him was wonderful because he's a very
704
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:44.280
good actor and I hope after this film yeah he
705
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:45.000
does well.
706
00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:48.840
Yeah, I'm going to have Charlotta come over now and
707
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:50.960
take over and I have a little more fun.
708
00:46:55.840 --> 00:47:04.360
Okay, can I get a shout out for Sharmilaji, Sharmila.
709
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:05.480
You're looking stunning.
710
00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:07.119
Okay, you're slaying.
711
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:10.840
Actually, am I right, isn't she? Yeah?
712
00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:14.000
Give them that kind of a question. They can't say no.
713
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:18.239
But I actually wore to sorry, thinking that I will
714
00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:22.480
be wearing a yes and I can't wear heels, and
715
00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:24.920
I come to a saddy without heels.
716
00:47:25.960 --> 00:47:29.320
Yeah, all right, not a problem. I'm compensating for you,
717
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:29.840
ma'am here.
718
00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:35.559
Okay, So moving on to a fun game, and I
719
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:39.159
would like to call it Blast from the Past, And
720
00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:42.719
the game is really simple. We're going to show you
721
00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:46.039
a couple of pictures on that screen, and all of
722
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:48.960
you audience over there, you will be seeing those pictures
723
00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.639
of a year and you have to recognize them and
724
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:57.079
tell us the stories behind those pictures if I can.
725
00:47:57.400 --> 00:47:58.280
Are you ready for it?
726
00:47:58.559 --> 00:47:59.000
Yeah?
727
00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:02.639
Okay, I are you all ready for it? Yeah? Can
728
00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:04.840
I feel some energy? Yeah?
729
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:05.400
All right?
730
00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:10.280
All right? So can I get the first picture? Oh?
731
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:13.119
So what I have to say?
732
00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:16.679
That's really interesting? I actually loved that post.
733
00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:23.280
Were you Kelly is okay? It was in Chopin, Yes,
734
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:25.039
it was in Chopin, Okay.
735
00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:27.360
And what was happening over there? Do you remember?
736
00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:34.800
It was Chemiji wearing wash through outfit, looking rather glamorous
737
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:38.320
and dancing away and I was trying to keep up
738
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:43.639
with him. And kashimik Kelly had ten songs. Ten songs.
739
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:48.119
Ten songs songs or eight definitely, and one better than
740
00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:51.840
the other is Shadow is Shadow May and uh the
741
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:59.000
one huabat terrific songs. So this was one, And so
742
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:03.440
I said, quite trying, quite nervous about dancing, so I
743
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:07.079
had a few rehearsals. I was, of course, I mean,
744
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:12.199
Shamiji was two hundred times better than I, but I
745
00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:13.679
was trying to keep up with him.
746
00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:17.039
Yeah, you were there with all your grace and Shamiji
747
00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:18.239
with all his energy.
748
00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:20.880
This is a lovely photograph, really nice.
749
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:24.559
Was it really hard to work with him since you see,
750
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:25.000
he was.
751
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:28.480
A very unpredictable actor. You know, he'll do something in
752
00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:32.360
the rehearsal if he did rehearsal at all, and then
753
00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:34.679
he would it was supposed he was to come from
754
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:36.880
this side, he would come from the other side. And
755
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:42.719
for a newcomer, it was slightly difficult. This was right,
756
00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:48.599
This was my first film in Bombay. But it was fun.
757
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:50.960
I mean he was had a lot of energy, a
758
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:56.719
lot of energy, and it was a brand of his own.
759
00:49:56.760 --> 00:49:59.239
I mean he was completely different and he was doing
760
00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:05.079
those things then in sixty four what Shadow etcetera were
761
00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:09.840
doing or much later, you know, like what breaking into
762
00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:14.639
dancing or breaking into sort of spontaneous madness.
763
00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:18.760
Yes, do you think there's any actor in today's generation.
764
00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:21.679
Who would probably pass off as Shami Kapol.
765
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:25.920
I think today's actors are so versatile they can pass
766
00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:30.840
off as you know, wonderful actor, I mean wonderful, emotionally
767
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:35.760
invested actors and doing other stuff. Also, I think you
768
00:50:35.800 --> 00:50:37.800
have to do everything. I think they're all very good,
769
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:41.159
but Shamiji is unique, I would say absolutely unique. I
770
00:50:41.159 --> 00:50:44.480
think he's like they've done on social media. I saw
771
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:49.400
Alia vatten ranby doing something. Alia was probably better or
772
00:50:49.400 --> 00:50:52.880
at least like me, But there was nowhere near Chami
773
00:50:53.480 --> 00:50:55.800
absolutely not out.
774
00:50:56.840 --> 00:50:59.760
Are you listening all right? Can we move to the
775
00:50:59.800 --> 00:51:06.840
next picture? Hmmm? Is that chuk.
776
00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:09.599
That's Amita button, isn't it?
777
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:10.000
Yes?
778
00:51:11.119 --> 00:51:14.000
That's not chu ke chuk No.
779
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:15.519
Do you remember.
780
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:22.760
Probably a very unforgettable film. Yeah? Is Devin Verma? Is there? So?
781
00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:27.960
Devin Verma directed that film? Oh? You know, everybody goes
782
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:30.840
through that stage where they feel that everybody can be
783
00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:34.639
a director. Devin was a very very good friend of mine.
784
00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:37.960
I just got along with him so well. And we
785
00:51:38.039 --> 00:51:43.519
had a lot of fun shooting this film. And and I.
786
00:51:43.480 --> 00:51:45.760
Was telling you why, I wonder you were listening to
787
00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:46.880
him intently?
788
00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:50.159
Yes, he was giving us some gan I'm sure.
789
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:52.880
Right.
790
00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:56.800
How is it working with the Amata the.
791
00:51:56.760 --> 00:52:03.679
Big wonderful wonderful he will after Shashi Kapur. He was
792
00:52:03.719 --> 00:52:08.880
the only actor who came on time. I mean, nobody
793
00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:13.239
else came on time. So yes, And there was a
794
00:52:13.239 --> 00:52:17.119
film called Those Tana where there was in Ataman Chatrugan
795
00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:22.719
Sinha and mister butchen So and we had we used
796
00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:27.159
to keep those laborerzaars those days. Next seven to two
797
00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:29.440
we were working in one film and two to ten
798
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:32.599
we were working in another film. So you know, the
799
00:52:32.679 --> 00:52:36.039
money wasn't in place that it is now. It was
800
00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:40.920
not such an organized like now. They'd work in one film,
801
00:52:41.559 --> 00:52:43.199
then there is a break, then they go on to
802
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:49.239
another film. So if I was playing a glamorous role
803
00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:53.079
with long nails, and then I was playing somebody who
804
00:52:53.239 --> 00:52:56.199
shouldn't have those nails, so from seven to two, two
805
00:52:56.280 --> 00:52:57.880
to ten, I couldn't do very much. So there was
806
00:52:57.880 --> 00:53:02.719
a lot of compromise. So anyway, Ostana and Shatrugan Sinna
807
00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:06.400
was known for being late. At his own wedding, he
808
00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:10.119
was late, so and when he was a parliamentarian he
809
00:53:10.280 --> 00:53:15.000
was late. He's just biologically not capable of being on time.
810
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:20.679
So that seven to two shift two o'clock, mister Button's
811
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:24.800
car would go out and Shatuguan's car will enter. You
812
00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:28.880
can imagine Raj Kosla lost all his hair in making
813
00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:33.119
up Thestana, and you won't find three of them in
814
00:53:33.159 --> 00:53:36.599
one from Posenoth of course was there from whatever time
815
00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:41.360
to whatever time, adjusting to these two. So there's everybody's
816
00:53:41.400 --> 00:53:43.719
got separate shorts. You know there's a back too, camera
817
00:53:43.840 --> 00:53:48.880
with the with the what do you call it duplicate
818
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:55.440
and shot like that the film for Raji, Yes, do
819
00:53:55.519 --> 00:53:58.440
that for fun? I mean, I don't know. He was
820
00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:03.599
not really a tormentor. He was a wonderful person. Oh
821
00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:06.679
all right, he didn't have the geans. He couldn't be
822
00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:07.320
on time.
823
00:54:07.639 --> 00:54:11.639
It was a problem, all right, next picture please?
824
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:22.280
Oh yes, this was Ama Bram. Yeah, and the Army
825
00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:28.840
had a screening for us, and I think it was
826
00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:31.920
basically to cheer up the army because the next day
827
00:54:32.079 --> 00:54:36.239
was blackout and we went to war with Pakistan. And
828
00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:41.360
I remember Amjad was playing and we went to hear
829
00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:45.239
him and hardly anybody was there. And it was such
830
00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:48.960
fun because he just played for us, so to speak.
831
00:54:49.679 --> 00:54:52.400
So it was in Delhi and they gave us lovely
832
00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:59.039
little trophies army. It was. It was a wonderful screening
833
00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:00.320
by the army.
834
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:05.920
It's amazing. That's some monic Shawn next to you. Yeah,
835
00:55:06.599 --> 00:55:07.840
next picture please.
836
00:55:12.159 --> 00:55:15.519
Good movement. Yes? Why by being so nice to him?
837
00:55:17.719 --> 00:55:20.599
I wonder because I thought this was your rough first
838
00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:23.679
film with him, But I guess there's also I've.
839
00:55:23.559 --> 00:55:27.760
Done Mississippi Masala with him. Okay, in nineteen eighty eight.
840
00:55:28.840 --> 00:55:33.400
Yeah, but here you guys are greeting each other being.
841
00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:37.960
Because he's such a close friend. So it was probably
842
00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:40.559
a posed picture. I really don't know where it was it. Oh,
843
00:55:40.599 --> 00:55:44.920
I think when he got this award. Yes, the bone
844
00:55:44.960 --> 00:55:49.039
is highest award, so that's why he's dressed up and
845
00:55:49.079 --> 00:55:54.480
he's wearing that. Yes, so Ani and I was there
846
00:55:54.800 --> 00:55:59.639
as a special you know, to to congratulate him, and
847
00:55:59.679 --> 00:56:04.400
he's woke very well and he's I mean, it's their
848
00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:07.840
reward and they do it very well. Everybody comes and
849
00:56:08.440 --> 00:56:12.360
whoever has received it before, and all the who's who
850
00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:18.239
of who turns up, and of course mone is so respected.
851
00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:22.360
And absolutely do you remember your first meeting with him? Uh?
852
00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:28.000
I think when he was doing Sadgati with I think
853
00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:30.840
around that time when he was shooting I met him.
854
00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:34.239
I can't really remember, but I've known him for years
855
00:56:34.239 --> 00:56:36.880
and years and years and years, and he's a dear,
856
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:37.639
dear friend.
857
00:56:38.480 --> 00:56:38.880
Awesome.
858
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:45.159
Next picture, there's wondering why am I being so polite? Yes?
859
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:49.039
This is Baby Yeah, and one of my favorite films.
860
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:53.519
Yes, and this was a very difficult scene at the
861
00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:58.159
end when she loses her mind and she's just a child.
862
00:56:58.280 --> 00:57:03.159
Really and showed me through the expression is so so
863
00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:11.360
beautiful and so you know his internal sorrow at the tragedy,
864
00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:16.800
like she's completely unknowing and he has understood and followed
865
00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:22.880
her untangling so to speak. Yeah, it's a it's a
866
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:28.280
beautiful film and I think probably my best performance. But
867
00:57:28.360 --> 00:57:30.920
I worked in a Bengali film. I would consider that
868
00:57:31.239 --> 00:57:34.519
as my best performance, which is going to release next
869
00:57:34.599 --> 00:57:44.480
year that's also about aging and about onset of dementia,
870
00:57:45.559 --> 00:57:48.599
so that you know the ease of your language and
871
00:57:48.679 --> 00:57:51.920
speaking Bengali that has come down come out very well.
872
00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:55.599
I'm very very proud and very happy about that. But
873
00:57:55.719 --> 00:57:57.519
this is such a I mean, look showed me through
874
00:57:57.559 --> 00:58:00.440
his face is looking absolutely.
875
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:02.480
And you were incredible in that role.
876
00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:08.159
And I wass yeah there we happened immediately after, right,
877
00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:13.519
So what kind of impact did he have on you
878
00:58:13.679 --> 00:58:17.039
as as an actor, as a woman that you are,
879
00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:18.199
because he.
880
00:58:18.320 --> 00:58:23.519
Really he he started the film society movement in Kolkata,
881
00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:29.039
so that was he. They all started together. So we
882
00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:32.119
were at the opportunity of seeing so much, so many
883
00:58:32.159 --> 00:58:38.559
world cinema you know, of course, but and the trial
884
00:58:38.599 --> 00:58:43.440
of journ of Arc called these silent films and beautiful films.
885
00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:49.000
So it was quite vibrant, you know, the discussions and
886
00:58:49.079 --> 00:58:55.119
the knowledge of films. So he really taught me how
887
00:58:55.159 --> 00:58:59.920
to look at cinema, what is the medium of cinema?
888
00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:04.639
Because he could have done many things, he was so gifted.
889
00:59:04.679 --> 00:59:08.320
He would write, he would paint, he could write music,
890
00:59:09.320 --> 00:59:12.519
he could play the piano. He could have done many
891
00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:17.760
things because he was so gifted illustrator. He was in
892
00:59:18.159 --> 00:59:24.320
working for Clarion, but he felt that not much work
893
00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:29.679
has been done on cinema and he wanted to leave
894
00:59:29.719 --> 00:59:34.599
his impact in that world, in that medium. So that's
895
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:38.559
why he chose films. So his discussion said he was
896
00:59:38.599 --> 00:59:42.719
not a garrulous person. He didn't speak too much, and
897
00:59:42.760 --> 00:59:48.519
the age difference was so much like I really was
898
00:59:48.519 --> 00:59:51.440
a little tongue tied in front of him and showed
899
00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:56.079
me through was more. You know, would ask him questions.
900
00:59:56.119 --> 00:59:58.960
I didn't really ask him questions, but even by you know,
901
00:59:59.360 --> 01:00:03.000
osmose is just being around him and he had a
902
01:00:03.039 --> 01:00:08.079
wonderful sense of humor. He knew so much so and
903
01:00:08.199 --> 01:00:17.280
he believed in his work. He h didn't put commerce
904
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:20.519
before his art, I know, and if he had money,
905
01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:25.320
he would buy music or books. So he was a
906
01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:30.199
he loved films and all he wanted was to make films.
907
01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:43.599
Absolutely, thank you for sharing that. Next bitter please, Oh.
908
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:41.360
Where is this that? Polu?
909
01:00:43.079 --> 01:00:45.239
Do you remember what was happening over there?
910
01:00:47.159 --> 01:00:49.800
And I can't see what is it? What is that thing?
911
01:00:50.280 --> 01:00:50.360
No?
912
01:00:50.559 --> 01:00:51.360
I mean I'm not.
913
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:53.920
You can also turn around it.
914
01:00:59.199 --> 01:00:59.800
That's a shame.
915
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:08.599
Yes, during work, h this is this is a picture
916
01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:11.599
from our archives. Do you remember where is it from?
917
01:01:12.360 --> 01:01:20.199
And I'm trying to think does it ten s that
918
01:01:20.519 --> 01:01:25.320
or something? Raising funds because he would the agenda arts
919
01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:27.800
and suddenly we got I mean we didn't even have
920
01:01:27.840 --> 01:01:31.199
telephone those days. I get a message that that's up
921
01:01:31.320 --> 01:01:33.320
wants you for a meeting, and we would all go
922
01:01:33.480 --> 01:01:37.920
because he was so well respected. Then you'll say, that
923
01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:41.599
is it. We're raising money for that flood or that
924
01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:48.000
whatever some natural calamity and Prime Minister's fund and Chief
925
01:01:48.039 --> 01:01:51.000
Minister's fund, so we'd all go and have So there
926
01:01:51.079 --> 01:01:57.239
was so much togetherness in the industry. Raji ususab del
927
01:01:57.400 --> 01:02:03.639
Kumar and that's uh. Whatever they asked we did you
928
01:02:03.679 --> 01:02:08.119
know for the cineve workers welfare raising funds for them
929
01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:14.920
or all these do gooding works and and we just
930
01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:20.199
did that, I mean absolutely had The industry was together
931
01:02:20.719 --> 01:02:25.079
and we had these leaders and we we listened to them.
932
01:02:26.039 --> 01:02:28.480
Now of course everybody is on their own.
933
01:02:28.800 --> 01:02:30.760
All right. Next picture, please.
934
01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:39.039
M This was at my wedding and Adam Vira you
935
01:02:39.079 --> 01:02:44.679
will look demure Adam Vida was And how.
936
01:02:44.480 --> 01:02:48.199
Did you guys meet? Is something I think the story
937
01:02:48.239 --> 01:02:48.880
for my book.
938
01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:53.000
I'm not going to share everything for Indian Express, but.
939
01:02:53.039 --> 01:02:55.920
Tell me something really, you know, looking at this picture
940
01:02:55.960 --> 01:02:59.679
and the kind the the things that we know about
941
01:02:59.719 --> 01:03:05.159
you and Tagersaw. You know, nowadays people actually date. They
942
01:03:05.320 --> 01:03:07.920
would swipe right left, you know, and there are different
943
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:12.800
different relationship status, situationship.
944
01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:15.360
And bread crumbing, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. How
945
01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:18.000
did it work out with you guys?
946
01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:21.400
Same same, Yeah, Exac.
947
01:03:21.199 --> 01:03:22.440
You're in a situationship?
948
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:23.639
Did he ever ghost you?
949
01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:25.599
But you go?
950
01:03:25.760 --> 01:03:29.360
Still new words? I'm learning SKIVD apparently is the new world.
951
01:03:29.519 --> 01:03:32.800
But the moment you say that, the young people immediately change,
952
01:03:33.239 --> 01:03:35.360
you know, the moment you say riz like we start
953
01:03:35.480 --> 01:03:37.840
using ras, then they move on to something else.
954
01:03:38.519 --> 01:03:41.159
So was there a phase when we stopped talking to
955
01:03:41.239 --> 01:03:44.840
you and you were restless, or maybe perhaps you sort
956
01:03:44.880 --> 01:03:46.000
of did the same, or.
957
01:03:46.840 --> 01:03:50.360
Yeah, I'm sure we had some and don't remember. Memory
958
01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:52.920
being retentive. Only you remember the good things are not
959
01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:59.039
the bad things. But yeah, they don't think we had
960
01:03:59.639 --> 01:04:03.519
huge rouse or anything. It was long distance anyway, there
961
01:04:03.559 --> 01:04:06.400
was so much traveling. He was playing cricket, I was working,
962
01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:11.840
so we didn't want to waste time, you know, arguing
963
01:04:11.920 --> 01:04:15.679
with each other. So but otherwise it's the same. You meet,
964
01:04:15.760 --> 01:04:18.440
you fall in love, and spend time with each other
965
01:04:18.719 --> 01:04:22.800
and live with each other and then be.
966
01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:26.039
Patient, try to spend a lot of time with it.
967
01:04:26.039 --> 01:04:29.719
I don't think you want to be patient. You don't
968
01:04:29.719 --> 01:04:31.719
want to do anything. You just live the moment and
969
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:34.800
it turns out whatever it is. All those patients and
970
01:04:34.880 --> 01:04:38.119
all that comes much later. You know. That time, you're
971
01:04:38.199 --> 01:04:41.400
just living and things either work out or they won't
972
01:04:41.480 --> 01:04:46.440
work out. I mean, I don't know. But the more
973
01:04:46.519 --> 01:04:49.400
it also was away because those days the cricket matches
974
01:04:49.480 --> 01:04:52.559
used to take so long, and of course they didn't
975
01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:55.199
play as often as they do now. But if you
976
01:04:55.239 --> 01:04:58.000
went to Australia, you went away forever. Because you went
977
01:04:58.039 --> 01:05:01.000
to Australia played five matches then you went to New
978
01:05:01.119 --> 01:05:03.920
Zealand and you played, and coming back you stopped in
979
01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:08.559
Singapore and then you came back finally, and then there
980
01:05:08.599 --> 01:05:13.360
was no mobile. The telephone calls used to go via London.
981
01:05:14.239 --> 01:05:17.320
If you booked a lightning call, it wasn't lightning. It
982
01:05:17.360 --> 01:05:19.400
would come after two hours, in the middle of the night.
983
01:05:19.880 --> 01:05:22.119
And if you didn't have a phone, so it was
984
01:05:22.280 --> 01:05:25.840
difficult keeping in touch. A telegram would be the only thing.
985
01:05:26.239 --> 01:05:31.280
Letters took forever, even now they take forever. So the
986
01:05:31.360 --> 01:05:35.039
meeting was, you know, so we found time for each other.
987
01:05:36.079 --> 01:05:37.639
That's great. How did you guys?
988
01:05:38.760 --> 01:05:43.280
I'm asking so much. My jaw is hurting. Yeah, okay,
989
01:05:43.360 --> 01:05:47.400
we'll we'll move to the pictures.
990
01:05:47.559 --> 01:05:50.280
Oh, yes, we'll have another pictures one.
991
01:05:50.800 --> 01:05:54.599
Okay, Oh, this is so nice. This has been doing
992
01:05:54.599 --> 01:05:56.960
the rounds. Some somebody sent me this.
993
01:05:57.199 --> 01:05:57.639
Oh is that?
994
01:05:58.000 --> 01:05:58.280
Yes?
995
01:05:58.639 --> 01:05:59.880
Tell me I was in Delhi.
996
01:06:00.199 --> 01:06:05.199
Yeah, this was in Delhi. I think in duplay root.
997
01:06:05.320 --> 01:06:07.920
I can't recognize when we lived there. My mother in
998
01:06:08.039 --> 01:06:11.199
law lived there for a while and then we came
999
01:06:11.280 --> 01:06:14.800
to stay with her because when she started keeping very
1000
01:06:14.800 --> 01:06:20.360
indifferent health. And Sef was in Sennar, the girls went
1001
01:06:20.400 --> 01:06:25.360
to the British School here because I wanted them to
1002
01:06:25.400 --> 01:06:32.559
go to Parthasarathi's school. But they didn't have Hindi to
1003
01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:35.400
kill class six. They had Hindi and they were saying
1004
01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:39.880
cupboard makeup, ra keep gar, so they couldn't have managed.
1005
01:06:40.239 --> 01:06:42.719
So British School was the only other option because Modern
1006
01:06:42.719 --> 01:06:45.679
School had thirty five children and I mean it was
1007
01:06:45.679 --> 01:06:50.400
a very big school. So British School had sixteen children
1008
01:06:50.440 --> 01:06:53.320
in a class and so I opted for that.
1009
01:06:54.199 --> 01:06:55.360
All right, all right, I.
1010
01:06:55.280 --> 01:06:59.039
Can't calling way now, all right?
1011
01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:04.199
Listening to Charmula Tagore on Express Conversations. If you like
1012
01:07:04.239 --> 01:07:06.800
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