WEBVTT
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Hi everyone, welcome back to eVive Live.
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I'm Christina Cook.
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And I'm Adam Lyons.
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And we just had a great conversation with our boss, friend, brother in recovery, CEO of eVive, just doing a kind of a check-in and an update on what's going on with e Vive, the community, all the amazing stuff happening in the app, but also more information about the e-Vive Foundation, which is gonna do so many wonderful things.
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But like with anything, we want full transparency with all the things.
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Yeah, and I think, you know, I think we covered a lot of uh a lot of the details.
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We answered a lot of the questions that people probably have about the eVive foundation.
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But, you know, it's funny, I have people come up to me pretty often.
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They know I work for eVive, you know, they know that obviously I use eVive.
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They hear me mention e-vive in every episode of the modern meeting, but some people still don't know what it actually is.
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You know, I mean so I think it's it's good.
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It's good for us to have these conversations once in a while for people that, you know, like we may have people that listen to eVive live that like don't use the app.
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They just, you know, they enjoy the conversations.
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So I I think it's uh it's always good to kind of break it down.
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You know, I'm a huge fan of explain explain it to me like I'm five years old.
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Like there's so many things that people can gain from using the app.
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And and once again, I I know sometimes during these uh episodes, we're like, oh, we don't want this to be a commercial free vibe.
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It's not.
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We're just you know, we're just giving you the information, right?
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This is also e-vibe live.
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Exactly, it's part of our work.
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You know, it's it's everything that we do.
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Like we all wear multiple hats, but you know, I think I have five jobs, but I'm just so passionate about the you know, e-vive and how it's showing up.
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But I wish everybody could see the other side of it, the the calls that we all have as teams and the the conversations that we have on how we can do better for our users, what do you think that they would appreciate more?
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We actually include them on a lot of our community conversations of like what how can we support you better?
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Like what can we do here?
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And those types of things.
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And and that's the side that a lot of people don't get to see.
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Um, but evibe truly is built by lived experience for lived experience.
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And those convers it's not like a team of C-suites, like making all the big decisions, you know, for on behalf of those impacted.
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Like it is a collective conversation, and everybody involved is so passionate.
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They've either be been touched by somebody in the space, their own personal experience, or just passionate about humanity and and doing that work.
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So yeah, like one of the questions that we asked him, and I'm still kind of thinking about it, it's like, if Sam didn't do this, would anyone have done this at this point?
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Right?
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Like when like when he three and a half years ago was like, we need to create something.
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Like if if he he saw that the casino was eventually going to be in your pocket and he realized that like sell like you know, support needs to be in your pocket too.
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And it's just like, it's just crazy to me that like there's not a bunch of other people or companies trying to do this.
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And I know there's others that are there are there's there because I get similar, but I get people who've reached out.
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I've even seen other apps who are using the same kind of language, but since we have been doing it for so long, it's like we can pen, like, hey, taking this language from us, or even sometimes the look.
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Um, but yeah, I mean, I think somebody would have and and have.
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I mean, the last five years, the amount of apps that are are coming up, and I think it will continue to grow.
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There'll be continue to be different apps to meet different needs.
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But I'm just gonna tell you right now, like the team that we have with eVive from our clinical advisory board, who are some of the top-notch clinicians, treatment providers in this space, researchers to like we've got a preventionist on the team, we've got like, you know, peer support or lived experience.
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Um, so I mean, just the collective team we have.
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Like I'm staff.
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We we really are.
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And we're we're gonna continue to to create.
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So this it sounds sales pitchy, but this is really just us and for you to get to know the people who are who are on the other side of it.
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And no, and I think like in I think, you know, as Sam mentioned too, that like, you know, we've reached almost 11,000 users with zero marketing, with zero advertising.
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And once we start ramping this up, you know, I know we're gonna start creating more content, we're gonna start getting on the road more.
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It's it's exciting.
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It's people are really gonna start seeing um not only the results of the app, but like you said, maybe like giving some people some behind the scenes looks.
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And so uh I'm really excited for for the coming year and beyond.
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Yeah, same.
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But yeah, so here it is.
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Uh I guess you could say he's a recurring guest because he was our guest on episode one, and he is now our guest again.
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Here is our conversation with Sam DeMello.
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Hello, everyone.
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Welcome to another episode of EVIB Live.
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My name is Adam Lyons.
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I'm here with Christina Cook, and uh you guys see who's here.
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The godfather, the founder, the guy.
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Christina, what are you making that face for?
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I'm like, okay.
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Well, I'm making that face because I'm turning 40 in six months, dude.
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I don't need to be called the godfather.
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I'm having a bit of a midlife crisis, dude.
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You say the young.
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Sam.
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It's Sam.
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Sam DeMello, founder, CEO of EVE, our boss, our friend, our fellow person in long-term recovery from gambling.
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I'll take that back.
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You're in puberty.
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We got we got Adam going back to puberty.
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We got Sam aging into middle age.
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All right, we'll just keep that.
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We'll keep that.
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Sam, Sam.
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So happy to have you back.
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Welcome to eVive Live.
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Thank you for having me.
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It's awesome to be here and to wait in line, you know?
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So many awesome guests.
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I know, I know.
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Um, so yeah, we just want to kind of, you know, obviously, Christina and I know as employees of eVive, there's seems to be updates almost daily.
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Um, there's a lot of exciting things going on.
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But um, yeah, give us, you know, not like a state of the union, but like what's going on with eVive.
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Tell us about actually, you know what?
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Let's start with the evive foundation.
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I think that's like a great place to start because I know there's a lot of buzz surrounding it.
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So tell, explain to the eVive live audience what is the evive foundation?
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Yeah, that's a great question.
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So maybe we can do a little bit of both, right?
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I founded eVive in 2023 because I had opened up about my own gambling addiction on a Reddit thread, and all of these people started to say, man, I had the same experience, and you know, I'm going through it too.
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I need some support.
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And the first bit of data that I really, you know, dove into was what was happening in the public health system, right?
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What states were doing about gambling addiction and their own jurisdictions, how many people were connecting with support, etc.
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And what I found from that was pretty simple in my head, right?
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We had all of these people that needed help.
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And unfortunately, they weren't engaging with services, right?
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It's something that like less than 10% of people that struggle with gambling ever reach out for help.
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And it's like less than one or two percent of them that reach out to some kind of public health system.
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And I thought, okay, we have a phone number as our main entry point.
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That's great and important, but it's not enough to connect people.
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We have to meet them where they are.
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We're gonna build this application and we're gonna build this bridge between the people that need help and the system that is there to support them.
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And it's easy, right?
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You just take the people from here and you and you bring them there, and it was a it was a one-way bridge.
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And that was really my entire thought process in the beginning.
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And now I've spent the last three and a half years working really closely within the system and having these awesome partners in all of these states.
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And the problem is way deeper than that, right?
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It's not as simple as just, hey, let's bring these people into this amazing, incredible system that is perfect for everybody.
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They're actually major glaring holes in our system.
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You know, some states have super robust programming, they have public department, you know, public health budgets, they have peer support, they have counselors, they have awesome training and outreach.
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And some states don't have any of that, right?
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So my thought process behind the eVive foundation was really kind of three things.
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One, how do we bring e-vive into places that don't have any public health support, right?
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We're now working in like 20 states, which is really exciting, and we're working with councils and public health departments and these different organizations, but there's like 17 states in the country that don't have any public money, right?
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They they don't have any support, they don't have any services, you know, even the councils that exist in places like Mississippi and Texas, they're working with almost nothing, right?
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So I figured if if we had a foundation, we could find philanthropists that really care about this issue, and we could help generate funding to bring eVive and other services into all of these places.
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Because fundamentally, I believe that your access to support should not depend on where you live, right?
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What your zip code is.
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I think everybody should have access.
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So that was really the first thing that we were trying to solve.
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The second piece actually came really organically from eVive.
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Up until December of last year, we had an online community, but that community was only available through the web, right?
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It wasn't really integrated into the application.
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And then in January, we integrated it into the application, and we ended up taking over this long-standing peer support platform called Gamtalk, which was based out of Canada.
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And overnight, the engagement in the community just exploded, right?
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I think we had something like 50 active members in December that generated 500 posts and comments, right?
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And maybe we had like 2,000 people looking and reading them.
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And six months later, you know, we have 800 people a month that are generating 25,000 comments and posts, and you know, we have 70,000 page views in the community, right?
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It's really become the heartbeat of what we do.
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The peer support, the meetings, the feeling that you're not alone, like this is really what the community does.
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The challenge is it's very hard to support all of that without any funding from the states, right?
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Most states have budgets for prevention, they have budgets for public awareness, they have budgets for treatment, but peer support is something that they're just kind of getting wise to, right?
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So if we have all of these people in the community, and the number one thing that they need is peer support, we have to find a way to give it to them, right?
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So that was another big reason.
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Could we use the foundation to support the community?
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And could we use the foundation to take people in the community that have been in long-term recovery, that want to become certified peer specialists, that want a career path in this space?
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You know, could we get them certified and pay them a scholarship and create this, you know, workforce of peer supporters?
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Um, so that was another, you know, really pay a living wage.
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Sorry, gonna jump in there because it's really important to say that, to pay a living wage for a peer supporter.
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It is really important to say that.
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And I think this is one of the challenges, right?
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Oftentimes gambling addiction gets lumped in with substance abuse or alcohol, right?
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And obviously there are some similarities, that there are certainly similarities in in the recovery process, but I think the three of us know that gambling is kind of a different beast, right?
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Needs some different approaches.
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But when it comes to funding and the public health perspective, gambling is nowhere near substance use and alcohol, right?
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The federal government spends$20 billion plus a year on programming for substance abuse and alcohol.
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They spend zero dollars a year on gambling, which means that if you are someone like the three of us and you want to be a peer supporter for alcohol, you have incredible job opportunities and subsidized training and a pathway to a career.
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I mean, you can have that reimbursed by Medicaid.
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None of that exists in gambling.
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And I don't know, Christine, if you know this through your work in IPGGC, but there can't be more than a hundred of us certified peers in the US, you know, doing the gambling work, right?
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Less than 50.
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Less than 50 currently.
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Yeah.
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And none of us can find long-term steady employment, right?
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Maybe if you're really lucky in a state that has it.
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But and there are a few states that have really good gambling peer programs, Connecticut, New York, um, some some really great, great programs out there, but across the the board, most states don't.
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Totally.
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On a national level, I think it's very difficult.
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And I think that this is one of the things that I've come to feel really strongly about in my own learning over the last couple years.
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Right now, the system in the U.S.
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is set up in a way that says, if you have a gambling problem, call a doctor, right?
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We will connect you with a clinician.
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When in reality, in talking to so many people, I think the most common desire if you have a gambling problem is to talk to somebody else that had a gambling problem and now has that more under control.
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So just like I don't see eVive as a replacement for clinical therapy or really anything else, I don't see peer support as a replacement for clinical therapy, but it is a hell of a shot in the arm, you know?
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Yeah.
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That's not just me.
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Like Birch's just released a uh, but Birch's Health, this awesome telehealth platform for gambling, they just released a study that showed that, you know, their members that were engaged in peer support along with clinical counseling did better, stuck it out longer, you know, had better outcomes.
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So I've always said that.
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Like that's a that's that's the best circle of of care.
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Totally.
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Um, so I really wanted to be able to fund and grow our peer support program and the community.
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And I I think the the last piece is that I've felt very frustrated by the lack of funding to other organizations that are, you know, in the field doing really good work.
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Um, not to put you two on the spot, but you know, the number one driver of people seeking help through eVive is listening to somebody on a podcast, like the Broke Girls Society or the Modern Meeting.
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You're working out of your home offices with no budget and no financial support.
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That that seems crazy to me.
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So I really wanted to be able to fund, you know, people with lived experience and promote things like podcasts and new ideas.
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We're currently co-fundraising with this organization called Parent Standing Together, which provide peer support for families that are going through this, you know, their kids are struggling with gambling.
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It's an incredible organization.
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And there just isn't a national level philanthropic organization in this space right now that is, you know, sustainably funding any of these things that we desperately need.
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So for me, eVive incorporated the business, the platform, like that will always be what it is.
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And we will continue to work with states and we will continue to hopefully win contracts and deliver our service and also, you know, help to modernize the state systems.
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They they get a lot more out of working with eVive than just the product, right?
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They get all of us and the team and the lived experience at the table.
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But if we're gonna fundamentally change the gambling ecosystem, if we're really gonna build public support that works at a national scale, we we have to have a foundation.
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We have to be able to go into these places that don't have funding and we have to be able to accelerate it.
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So that was really the idea behind the foundation.
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We're about a month into formally launching and announcing our first fundraising campaign, and it's been going really, really well.
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Um, I'm trying not to get out in front of my skis, but I think that gambling addiction as a public health issue is becoming more and more talked about.
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You know, every time I open up ESPN, it seems like every other day there is another gambling story.
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We see it on the news.
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I'm getting called a lot more by places like the New York Times who are diving into this.
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And in general, I think that the discourse in this country is largely should we regulate this?
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Should we not regulate this?
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What is gambling?
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What is not gambling?
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You know, how do we put this genie back in the bottle?
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And my perspective is you can't.
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The genie is out of the bottle.
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This is a borderless digital activity.
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It doesn't matter where you live today.
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You have access to gambling through regulated books.
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And if you don't, social casinos and daily fantasy sports and prediction markets and all of the other things.
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If we're gonna address this issue, we have to build a public support system, right?
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We we have to take a public health model, and we need to be in a national position to do that.
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So yeah, I mean, that all sounds amazing, and I'm excited, and I cannot wait to uh, you know, not have you guys have to look at my potty award and get some uh get a cash infusion to the modern meeting of the broker society.
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No, I'm kidding.
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But um, but no, so I guess my follow-up question that I'm sure a lot of other people are thinking as they're listening is uh that all sounds great, Sam, but like where's this money coming from?
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Because, you know, from uh from my experience in the last year and a half working in the space, nobody can find any money.
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So where are we gonna find the money?
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:37.359
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:43.680
So I think the money comes from three places, um, or at least we've seen three places so far.
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:52.720
The first one is just small donations from everyday people, you know, including some of our community members, which has been totally overwhelming to me.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:53.039
Right?
00:19:53.200 --> 00:20:00.240
I eVive is completely free and that's important to me, and I never want anybody to have to pay for support.
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:09.119
But the fact that these folks are like, thank you for what you've done, and now we're gonna financially contribute is like it's it's very overwhelming.
00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:13.680
The fact that they're in a place and they're able to probably means more to them than anything.
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:14.160
Yeah.
00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:15.519
That that too.
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:32.799
So we've had a lot of broad support with small donations from folks, and I think, you know, that really speaks to the fact that this is affecting millions of people around the country, you know, a lot of people coming out of the woodwork, my my mom, my grandma, my my son, you know, we we've all gone through this.
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:40.000
Um, the second place is, you know, philanthropic organizations and foundations that support this work.
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:53.039
You know, there are bigger people that are getting involved, like Arnold Ventures is a very big philanthropy that just announced that they're committing a little over two and a half million dollars to research on problem gambling.
00:20:53.279 --> 00:21:01.279
I think that that will continue, you know, and we're talking to a lot of these foundations and and grant-making organizations.
00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:05.039
And then the third place is the gambling industry.
00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:10.559
And I know this is something that is controversial in the recovery space.
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:12.880
I'll tell you my perspective.
00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:21.119
Like one, all money that goes into public health is coming from the gambling industry one way or another, right?
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:33.359
It's either being collected from taxes on revenues and put into a public health trust fund, you know, or it's coming from donations from these organizations.
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:41.039
I fundamentally believe that if they are part of the problem, and you know, they are part of the problem.
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:52.319
I don't think it's as black and white as they are the entire problem, but some percentage of people that are gambling at gambling companies are struggling with gambling addiction.
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.759
And, you know, that is a byproduct of this activity.
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.599
They should be paying to support the, you know, the.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.039
The recovery of these folks and and to help them.
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:06.559
So fundamentally, I believe that they should.
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:14.880
And for me, you know, it's about how we take the money and what the guardrails are.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:23.279
I think that the NCPG comes under fire quite often for taking all of this money from the gambling industry.
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:27.440
And I also think that that's a little simplistic, right?
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:34.880
I don't fault the NCPG for taking funding from the gambling industry.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:40.319
I do fault them for what they do with the money or don't do with the money, right?
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:51.359
I think that people would be a lot less upset about Calci if the NCPG had been providing really effective, meaningful, comprehensive support for the last 10 years.
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:55.119
You know, I don't know that we would see such a backlash.
00:22:55.440 --> 00:23:00.480
I also think the other challenge is how do you take it without influence, right?
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.880
The eVive foundation is not a membership organization.
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:08.400
These companies are not buying membership.
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.559
They don't have a seat at the table.
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:24.079
My, you know, rules with them are kind of guidelines for accepting this money is one, it has to be unrestricted or, you know, pointed at one of our existing charitable mandates.
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.759
And two, there's no co-branding.
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:36.799
You know, no one is ever going to open up eVive and see this is brought to you by DraftKings or FanDuel or MGM, you know?
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:45.680
And if they follow, you know, those guidelines and they want to support our work, I will happily take their money.
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:49.599
I mean, I mean, in essence, it's all of our money.
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:51.039
It's just been laundered.
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:53.920
That's what we were talking about with Wiley, yeah.
00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:55.279
It is all of our money.
00:23:55.440 --> 00:24:02.160
And, you know, it's it makes me feel more independent taking it through the foundation.
00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:15.920
You know, if you have a contract to provide services and the client that you're providing services to doesn't like what you're doing, well, they have the power to revoke that contract, right?
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:20.160
And, you know, potentially influence what you're doing.
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:28.000
If these organizations are making an unrestricted donation to the foundation to support the work that we're doing, like that's it.
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:33.440
And if they decide that they don't like what we're doing, they won't make another donation.
00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:35.359
And I'm okay with that, you know?
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:35.839
Yeah.
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:36.960
Um Yeah.
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:42.640
I was just gonna say, I think that it all comes down to, like you said, what you do with the money.
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:51.519
Whether it's, you know, if DraftKings tomorrow said we'd like to sponsor the modern meeting, you just have to say at the beginning that this is brought to you by the DraftKings.
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:58.000
I might say yes to that, knowing that the next 59 minutes that the listener is listening to is gonna help them, right?
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:08.400
And so it's like we need to look at the big picture here where we can all agree that so many doors can be opened for people if we have the funding.
00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:11.440
If we have the money, let's get the money, right?
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:20.640
Like, and so as long as they're as long, like if if DraftKings said to me, like, you need to hit these talking points during the episode, no, no, no, no, I can't do that.
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:21.680
Just like, right?
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:33.039
But so yeah, I I'm so glad you're saying this, Sam, because I think there are probably other councils, maybe not councils, but there are other organizations out here who are kind of putting a line in the sand, like, we're not gonna take industry money.
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:34.720
It's like, well, where are you gonna get it?
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:36.160
Where are you gonna get the money?
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:39.359
I I take the same approach, you know.
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:48.640
I I took a little heat when we made our partnership with DraftKings last October and we made our product available, you know, within their platform.
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.440
I took a little heat from the recovery community.
00:25:51.680 --> 00:26:01.039
But at the end of the day, like I don't know if this is gonna sound like me shirking responsibility, but like this isn't my decision.
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:03.519
It's it's the mission of the company.
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:06.559
The mission of eVive is to meet people where they are.
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:08.319
They are on DraftKings.
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:14.079
If we don't show up where they are, we are not doing what we set out to do with eVive.
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:23.680
And I think the other piece that I would just put out there is oftentimes we we look at this problem, right?
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:30.640
We we we look at gambling problems and it becomes very us versus them with the industry, right?
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:44.960
But if you really boil it down, the moment that somebody on FanDuel or DraftKings or insert your company here goes to that company and says, I have a gambling problem.
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:46.559
Never contact me again.
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:48.559
I'm closing my account, right?
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:54.559
That person immediately goes from a customer to a liability.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:27:04.400
The only thing that that person can do from that point forward is have their life unravel and end up in the headlines, you know?
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:07.279
That that's not good for the gambling industry.
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:09.279
They they they don't want that.
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:14.079
They don't want people to be ruining their lives in that way.
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:19.279
They want a robust health system like I do, you know?
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:26.079
I think it's about finding a way to deliver that message, meeting people where they are.
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:30.240
And, you know, they're not gonna be our only supporters.
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:37.680
You know, I'd never want to get into a position where I'm putting up a sponsorship page and it's just all casino companies.
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:40.000
But it it's not gonna happen.
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:43.599
I think they could be a, you know, a leg of the stool, if you will.
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:53.759
And they have the added benefit of having our target audience within their walls in many cases, right?
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:57.279
So it's not just about financially supporting what we're doing.
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:02.640
You know, MGM was the first casino operator to do this with us.
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:07.200
And it's not like MGM is just giving us a check and saying, go and do it.
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:12.000
They're giving us free advertising throughout their brick and mortar casinos.
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:16.720
They're driving tons of traffic from people, you know, to eVive.
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:20.640
And that's more helpful in a lot of ways.
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:29.599
I was just gonna say, and that's why it's so important for everybody to have a seat at the table and the way that you're holding boundaries, but also like we've got to work together, right?
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:35.759
So the opposite of that was we don't get involved with industry, sports books, or anything like that.
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:40.880
And then our app is something that they have to find later when they're struggling, right?
00:28:41.200 --> 00:29:08.880
Whereas we can have these relationships and and create this support and resource, but also not only, you know, are they potentially going to help elevate the work that we're doing, but then we get access to all of their customer base and they get access to resources and support, hopefully, before it ever even becomes this unraveling situation that us three have been through.
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:26.720
And so just that access alone to be able to get in the hands of people who maybe aren't experiencing the harm yet or are starting to kind of experience the harm and be able to give them a little bit of understanding or and be able to intervene and say, hey, you can do this safer.
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:31.440
You know, you don't have to burn your life down like like some of us with it.
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:39.039
So it's like, I mean, that that's why it's so important to for off us all to set at the table.
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:41.039
Now it's not always gonna be easy, right?
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:49.359
We have our personal feelings, they have their things that they do that we're not always gonna be on board with, that type of thing.
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:55.920
But when you look at history with everything, right, there's always gonna be conflicting sides.
00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:11.359
But the the more paths that we can make that because our ultimate goal, my my passion and goal, your passion and goal, Adam's passion and goal is to meet the person that's struggling and and give them hope.
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:19.680
And by by these relationships and by this work, hopefully we're gonna do it sooner because we've been behind the curveball for so long.
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:23.200
And you know, that's my whole thought on it.
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:38.160
I get asked a lot about my my thoughts on working with industry, and I'm like, it's it's not the easiest thing for me because of the harm I experience and because of the conversations I have every day with people who have experienced harm, but I'm willing to build that bridge.
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:46.160
What's um what's funny about it too is that as you're talking, I'm thinking, you know, what has prevented people from doing this?
00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:51.839
And it's a lot of the same things that we struggle with with our when we were uh in active addiction, right?
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:55.839
It came down to pride, it comes down to ego, it comes down to holding resentments.
00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:13.680
And just like we need to let go of those things as we enter recovery, I think the this whole ecosystem, like if we would put ego aside and put pride aside and think about what is the most efficient and best way to help people, we would have came to this conclusion a while ago, which comes to my next question, Sam.
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:17.279
I've never asked you this in the year and a half that I've known you.
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:36.960
When you, you know, had this revelation in 2022, 2023 that you wanted to start this and you, you know, did some research and you're like, wow, there is there's nothing, there's no digital health app, were you kind of surprised that there wasn't?
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:42.880
Like, if there wasn't evive and sam, like would would there be anything?
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:51.920
Like what why do you think why was there such a blind spot in the recovery community at the at that point for like a digital health app?
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:53.599
Yeah.
00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:00.319
So I I made this post on Reddit in early March of 2023.
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:04.720
I got all of this feedback, and then that sent me down this research rabbit hole.
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:08.000
And I had no intention of starting a company like that.
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:09.599
That was not my goal.
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:14.000
Um my goal at first was oh, well, this is obvious.
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:17.359
I'm gonna go find the company that's already built this, and I'm gonna go work for them.
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:18.079
I need a job.
00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:19.200
It's perfect.
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:24.480
Um, and really the only app that I found at the time was Recover Me out of the UK.
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:33.200
And I I met with them and I kind of gave them my pitch for how and why I thought they could bring this, you know, more effectively to the US.
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:35.920
And they weren't particularly interested.
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:41.519
Um, you know, they were very nice, but they they were kind of like, go take a hike, buddy.
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.319
Um, and they're like, we got this, we got this.
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:45.039
Yeah.
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:51.440
And, you know, at that point, I I sat with it for a couple weeks and I was like, oh, it's a dumb idea.
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:54.720
Someone would have already done it if it was a good idea, you know.
00:32:55.119 --> 00:33:04.240
And then I just came to a point one day where I said, the worst thing that's gonna happen if I do this is that I'm probably gonna keep myself sober.
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:07.359
And that alone is is good enough for me.
00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:17.359
You know, I I never expected eVive to, I never expected to be having this conversation on a podcast that we're running, you know, three and a half years later.
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:22.799
But I also think that this is part of the beauty of of eVive.
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:25.680
Like I didn't have set intentions.
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:31.519
The reason that this company is evolving the way it is is because it's a it's a process.
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:36.400
I'm I'm learning more, I'm identifying gaps in the system.
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:46.400
Our team is growing, we're filling it with brilliant people, and we're able to do more and more and more and try to bring this thing together.
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:58.400
But I think the other piece here, Adam, that you know, is a big barrier is eVive is kind of the anti-business business.
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:07.119
Um, you know, when when companies are started, ultimately their goal is to make money, you know?
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:20.320
And the way that you make money in an application, a mobile application, is you charge people a subscription and you keep them coming back day after day after day.
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:23.440
We gave away eVive for free.
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:28.000
We said, hey, one version of success is that somebody uses this every day.
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:37.679
Another version of success is that they come in and find a local therapist or peer support group or something that works for them, and that's what they need.
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:40.639
Both of those things are successful for us.
00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:42.639
I got an email this morning.
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:43.760
It was awesome.
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:59.920
This woman wrote back and said, Hey, I just wanted to let you know I haven't used your app in like six months, but I just hit one year of gamble-free life, and I'm just so proud of myself and thank you for everything that you did in in the early days.
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:01.280
That's awesome.
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:07.920
That is what we're all about, but that would be terrible as a business owner that was charging subscriptions, you know.
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:08.480
Right, right.
00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:10.320
There goes a customer.
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:16.880
So I think similarly with the foundation and eVive, like, yes, this is a business.
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:21.760
Yes, we need to make money to keep the lights on and invest in what we're doing.
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.880
But at the end of the day, our currency is very simple.
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:26.400
Like, we're helping people.
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:29.440
And if they come to us, we will help them.
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:36.079
And the business part of it is figure out how to keep doing that for free, which is an interesting puzzle.
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:38.800
You know, but we keep doing it, doing it.
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:45.679
And that kind of brings me to our next piece of like the growth that we've seen within the eVive app itself.
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:48.480
Like, um, we were on a call yesterday.
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:54.559
Adam and I were on a call yesterday with some updates that are happening, gonna happen within the app.
00:35:54.719 --> 00:36:00.960
And we were just so blown away by like just how much, like when we first started, right?
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:11.519
We put together this app that was really beneficial and really helped people better understand their relationship with with gambling and whether they wanted to do it safer or find an abstinence way.
00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:16.719
I remember we had three stop or three pathways when we when we um started.
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:29.679
And now to just see the team that we've put together, the passion behind all of us in this, like even what the details around language, like we're like, let's not say it that way or let's focus on it this way.
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:31.840
And and the fact that we all have so much input.
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:41.039
But when I when I came on, we we don't have to rehash this story, but you and I met because you reached out about the app and then we we just built a friendship from there.
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:50.639
And you were like, hey, I needed some work, and you were like, Well, I could use you on some accounting admin side of things, which is my background.
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:54.880
And, you know, so we started part-time helping you out.
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:58.480
There was like a QuickBooks account with three things in it.
00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:01.840
And I'm like, Sam, like what's going on here?
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:12.159
Like, let, you know, and and so just from where we were two and a half years ago, and how our simple QuickBooks situation was so helpful.
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:25.679
And now we've gone through three levels of building out, and we're we're still finding areas that we need to build because that's just the rapid expansion that we've had and growing pains and all of that.
00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:33.679
But we we each bar that keeps putting there on like building this thing out, and it's at times overwhelming and scary.
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:37.920
And I'll question myself am I am I qualified for this?
00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:43.679
But each time I keep trying to reach that bar, and I'm like, you know what, I can figure this out, I can get there.
00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:46.639
And if not, I can I have so much support.
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:52.079
And we have the the resources to be able to pull somebody in on something.
00:37:52.159 --> 00:38:09.519
It's just it's been a really amazing experience, but just to see the transformation with the team, with the app, with the communities, with with everything in just the last two years, like it's beautiful and overwhelming and all the things.
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:11.519
Do you have do you have a question, Miss?
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:14.960
No, I just I really just wanted to share that.
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:17.519
Like let her talk, Adam, please.
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:27.519
Um, it uh so I think you know, I this is what attracted me to the tech field in in the first place.
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:32.079
You know, I've been working in technology for I don't know, 16 years now.
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:37.119
And for the first decade, I used to join companies when they were 20 or 30 people.
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:44.239
And then, you know, a year later, there's 200, 400 people, and you get to see this tremendous growth.
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:48.880
Um, it's much more overwhelming with our own company.
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:55.280
I have a lot more sympathy for previous CEOs that I worked for that I was like, this guy doesn't get it.
00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:58.079
Like, okay, no, I have more perspective now.
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:00.880
Um, but you know, it's interesting.
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:10.800
I as e Vive gets bigger, I struggle more with imposter syndrome and a lot of the questions that, you know, you're asking yourself, am I capable?
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:11.679
Am I qualified?
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:13.119
Like, what am I doing?
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:22.159
I recently reread Atomic Habits by James Clear, which is like one of my top three most influential books on my life.
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:30.559
And his main, you know, his main thesis is you don't rise to your level of your aspirations.
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:33.679
You sink to the level of your systems.
00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:41.199
You know, so if you want to go and win the basketball championship, it's not about just visualizing you holding the trophy.
00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:48.559
It's about you sitting there and focusing on practice and the fundamentals, you know, trying to get like Adam out there on the basketball court, just draining freeze.
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:48.960
Yeah.
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:53.280
And I've really tried to adopt that mentality with eVive.
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:55.599
People ask me all the time, like, what's the goal?
00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:01.280
25,000 members, 100,000 members, you know, like what's the goal?
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:02.719
I don't really have one.
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:10.880
You know, my my my goal is that I show up every day, I look at what the situation requires, and we we we try to fix it.
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:12.960
The growth has been tremendous.
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:15.920
I mean, we've basically doubled over the last year.
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:20.400
We now have nearly 11,000 people that have downloaded the app.
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:25.280
We have about 500 people every single day that are in there and engaging.
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:28.880
The community growth has been just unbelievable.
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:37.599
Like in January, which seems like a long time ago, we had our first eVive community meeting with Adam and the Modern Meeting meeting.
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:40.079
And I think we had seven or eight people come.
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:55.679
And now nine months later, we have like over 15 peer support group meetings a week, and they're all of these awesome partnerships with, you know, the Broke Girls Society and parents standing together, and it it just keeps growing.
00:40:56.079 --> 00:41:04.719
So for me, I I try to just maintain the this is our mission, this is what we do.
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:10.480
Sometimes that's going to, you know, the way in which we do it is going to evolve.
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:12.880
And I used to say this when I spoke.
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:22.639
It's like, if we find out that the best way to help someone with a gambling problem is to show them videos of kittens playing with balls of yarn.
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:24.719
That's what eVive will become.
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:27.280
You know, I I did not I'm here for it.
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:28.079
I'm here for it.
00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:28.719
Totally.
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:33.840
And and all I mean by that is I didn't set out to build the world's greatest mobile app.
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.719
The mobile app sounded like a great solution.
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:40.880
I didn't intend to build this huge community with peer support.
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:44.639
I never intended to become a certified peer supporter.
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:48.880
I didn't even go to meetings for the first three and a half years of my recovery.
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:51.039
I was the anti-meeting guy.
00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:57.519
And now I do all of those things because they it is what the community requires.
00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:04.000
And it's part of the reason that we need to maintain our independence, you know.
00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:11.360
It's part of the reason why we're launching a foundation and we're not going out and raising$2 million in investments.
00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:27.360
If we had a bunch of external investors at this company that were looking to make a profit, I could have never given away our product for free to DraftKings last year, and we wouldn't have helped those 500 people that have come through that channel, right?
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:30.960
It's it's not it's not good business practice.
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:36.000
But my goal is to not, you know, it's not to build the world's biggest business.
00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:42.639
It's to solve this problem and build a connected solution for people that are struggling with gambling.
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:43.920
Like, period.
00:42:44.400 --> 00:43:02.159
I mean, what I'm hearing, and it's a beautiful thing, it's like, it sounds like e-vibe is is similar to someone in recovery, where it's like, you know, taking things a day at a time and we're putting in the work, we're creating systems, creating habits, and all these goals that we have, you know, we want to get to one year, we want to get to two years.
00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:10.079
Those things will, may, may not, but most likely will happen if you just keep doing the work.
00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:11.440
Keep your head down, doing the work.
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:12.559
And that's like, that's beautiful.
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:18.400
It's like it applies to recovery, and it sounds like it applies to evive too, which is, you know, it's amazing.
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:25.679
And again, like not to I I would be devastated if eVive fell apart, right?
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:27.599
I'm not gonna say it would be okay.
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:33.920
But my original goal with this whole project was to keep myself sober, you know?
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:42.239
And oh my God, the amount of just growth and support and learning that I've done over the last three and a half years, it's funny.
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:50.239
The the bigger that evive gets, uh I send a message to everybody that joins the community and I respond to all of their posts.
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:54.800
And the bigger that evive gets, the more I get people that are like, oh, Mr.
00:43:55.039 --> 00:43:59.679
Powerful CEO man, like how nice that you deign to speak.
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:00.639
With me.
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:04.480
And it's like, I don't do that because I have to.
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:11.199
You know, it's actually probably not the thing that I should be doing with the most efficient use of my time.
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:14.159
But I do it because it's what I need.
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:16.159
It's my daily practice, right?
00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:23.760
It keeps me rooted in recovery and it keeps me rooted to the experience of this thing for everybody.
00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:31.519
You know, I think the only person who doesn't like it is Phil, our CTO, because I use the community all the time and I'm like, hey man, this thing is broken.
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:34.239
Shout out to Phil.
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:36.960
Shout out to Phil, who is the absolute best.
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:45.840
We have a lot of people behind the scenes that you scenes that you guys don't really get to see, but they are just as passionate about eVive and everything we're doing.
00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:52.719
And the second email that these community members send to Sam, they say, wait a minute, are you the drummer of Nate Perry and Ragged Company?
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:54.639
And then he's like, I am.
00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:55.679
Yes.
00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:57.039
Exactly.
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:08.880
Having the uh having the band that I play with start to blow up a little bit during this whole journey that we're on has been a uh an interesting interesting wrinkle in my life.
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:11.119
Um but it's it's fun.
00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:18.159
I think we're getting to a point in the community where yeah, we have enough musicians in the community that we're gonna start the e Vive band at some point.
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:20.320
I mean, I'm waiting.
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:21.679
Come on, let's go.
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:24.800
Um, so Christina, can I do the honors?
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:25.519
Yep.
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:26.400
All right.
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:27.360
I'm I'm excited.
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:30.239
I get to ask the Christina question, the last question.
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:33.280
Sam Damello, we appreciate your time.
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:34.079
This has been amazing.
00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:35.519
We have one last question.
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:37.360
What gives you hope?
00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:38.800
What gives you hope in the space?
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:40.159
What gives you hope for eVive?
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:41.679
What gives you hope?
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:44.639
There's so many things that give me hope.
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:49.119
Um, I get I get accused of being overly optimistic a lot.
00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:55.119
Um so here's what gives me hope for eVive and the space.
00:45:55.599 --> 00:46:12.400
I I think the power to change this situation that we're living in in the United States, where gambling problems are becoming and and are a real epidemic, I I think that the power is in people.
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:27.440
People who have lived this experience of gambling addiction are the most qualified and most capable of helping someone else that is going through it.
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:48.880
And watching what's happened in the community in the last nine months, where people that came in in January and were just at rock bottom, broken, lost, struggling, couldn't put together more than a couple days of white knuckle abstinence, and now they're they're stable, right?
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:56.239
And they're and they're cruising and they're they're feeling really solid in their recovery, they're not going away.
00:46:56.400 --> 00:47:03.440
They're turning around and helping the next batch of people that are showing up that are broken and struggling.
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:14.320
And if evive can facilitate this, you know, each one teaches the next one, and it starts to spread out in that way.
00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:22.079
I I really think that that is has the power to change the course of this epidemic, you know.
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:27.280
A lot of times we say we're at the tip of the iceberg, right?
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:28.239
We are.
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:35.039
We know that statistically it takes about eight years for people to go from gambling problem to rock bottom.
00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:38.480
And we legalized sports betting eight years ago.
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:42.159
We we haven't even seen the wave yet, right?
00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:44.239
And we are behind the curve, Christina.
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:48.159
Like I feel that too on my on my pessimistic days.
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:52.239
But I think that we're modeling a solution.
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:58.880
I think that we're able to convey the power of peer supports in a scalable way.
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:01.679
And I think we're just getting started.
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:09.760
I I don't want to freak you all out, but 11,000 members is fantastic and bigger than my wildest dreams.
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:14.559
But in the last three and a half years, we've never advertised this thing.
00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:21.440
This has grown through word of mouth and, you know, maybe a link on a state website.
00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:36.800
In the next three months, in these states that we've been working in that are getting really confident and comfortable with eVive, like Massachusetts and Ohio and Michigan and Illinois, we're gonna start really marketing this thing.
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:39.440
And I think that it's going to explode.
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:47.840
I think we're gonna be sitting here in another year going, oh my God, how do we have 25,000 people on this platform, right?
00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:58.800
Um so it gives me hope that people are coming out of the shadows and they're turning around and helping other folks.
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:05.360
I think the other thing that gives me hope is that there's just a lot more awareness about this issue.
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:11.440
Even in, you know, three years ago when I started this, nobody knew except for my wife.
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:18.800
And I I didn't see articles on a daily basis about this issue, but we're seeing them now, right?
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:20.719
We're seeing people talk about it.
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:26.159
It's it's in the it's in the American conscience, you know?
00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:34.880
And I think that's helpful because I always say helping people after they've been pickled, you know, is is important.
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:36.719
It's what I'm very passionate about.
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:40.159
But let's not make as many pickles, you know?
00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:52.800
The the day that a a parent sits down and talks to their kids about gambling the same way that they talk to them about sex and drugs, like that's what we need to get to, you know?
00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:53.199
Yeah.
00:49:54.880 --> 00:50:10.000
Even in our schools, in our school systems where they, you know, take a few minutes of the drug and alcohol and sex talk and and talk about just compulsive behaviors in general and gambling, like broaden that conversation so maybe we can get ahead of it.
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:11.119
So totally.
00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:14.320
Well, this was awesome.
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:17.760
Sam, thank you so much for coming on evive live.
00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:20.559
Uh, Christina, any, any, any last thoughts?
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:29.280
No, I, you know, I just I have hope in Sam because no matter how big this thing gets, he's still gonna be trying to c crash on like all of our couches.
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:33.519
And like, so he's not gonna be like that that big-headed CEO guy.
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:42.320
He's gonna be like, hey, I could save the$120 of the hotel if you'll just let me crash in your room or crash on your couch, or like, I'll just sleep in the car, guys.
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:45.840
It's the only reason why I got a two-bedroom now instead of a one-bedroom.
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:48.239
I knew that I I would need a place for him to sleep.
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:53.440
Christina, I don't know if you know this, but Adam and I are headed down to New Jersey next Friday.
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:57.840
And they were like, we can give you one hotel room for free, or you know, you can book one.
00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:00.320
I was like, Adam, we got two clean beds, dude.
00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:01.519
I hope you don't snore.
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:03.199
It's his funeral.
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:04.079
It's his funeral.
00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:06.079
I don't think that's ever gonna change for me.
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:07.199
I hope not.
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:07.840
Yeah.
00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:10.960
And that it's like that that gives me hope too.
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:12.239
Yeah, love it.
00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:16.639
And then I'm like economy plus on my on my thing.
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:19.119
You're like, is there something lower than economy?
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:21.519
Like, I'm I'm happy to hold my bag.
00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:23.199
Sorry, you can cut that out.
00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:35.760
But that's just at some point you guys can interview my wife, and you can, you know, she can tell you how annoyed she is that I own three t shirts and I just wear them on repeat.
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:37.440
It's true.
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:38.960
All right, all right.
00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:40.079
Awesome.
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:41.119
Thank you, Sam.
00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:42.159
Thank you.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.479
Hi everyone, welcome back to eVive Live.
00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:03.600
I'm Christina Cook.
00:00:03.839 --> 00:00:05.360
And I'm Adam Lyons.
00:00:05.839 --> 00:00:25.839
And we just had a great conversation with our boss, friend, brother in recovery, CEO of eVive, just doing a kind of a check-in and an update on what's going on with e Vive, the community, all the amazing stuff happening in the app, but also more information about the e-Vive Foundation, which is gonna do so many wonderful things.
00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:29.199
But like with anything, we want full transparency with all the things.
00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:33.200
Yeah, and I think, you know, I think we covered a lot of uh a lot of the details.
00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:36.560
We answered a lot of the questions that people probably have about the eVive foundation.
00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:41.359
But, you know, it's funny, I have people come up to me pretty often.
00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:46.079
They know I work for eVive, you know, they know that obviously I use eVive.
00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:54.159
They hear me mention e-vive in every episode of the modern meeting, but some people still don't know what it actually is.
00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:56.799
You know, I mean so I think it's it's good.
00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:06.400
It's good for us to have these conversations once in a while for people that, you know, like we may have people that listen to eVive live that like don't use the app.
00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:08.159
They just, you know, they enjoy the conversations.
00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:13.040
So I I think it's uh it's always good to kind of break it down.
00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:16.799
You know, I'm a huge fan of explain explain it to me like I'm five years old.
00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:21.760
Like there's so many things that people can gain from using the app.
00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:28.319
And and once again, I I know sometimes during these uh episodes, we're like, oh, we don't want this to be a commercial free vibe.
00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:28.719
It's not.
00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:31.840
We're just you know, we're just giving you the information, right?
00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:33.680
This is also e-vibe live.
00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:37.040
Exactly, it's part of our work.
00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:39.359
You know, it's it's everything that we do.
00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:50.239
Like we all wear multiple hats, but you know, I think I have five jobs, but I'm just so passionate about the you know, e-vive and how it's showing up.
00:01:50.319 --> 00:02:03.519
But I wish everybody could see the other side of it, the the calls that we all have as teams and the the conversations that we have on how we can do better for our users, what do you think that they would appreciate more?
00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:09.919
We actually include them on a lot of our community conversations of like what how can we support you better?
00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:11.759
Like what can we do here?
00:02:11.919 --> 00:02:12.879
And those types of things.
00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:15.680
And and that's the side that a lot of people don't get to see.
00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:20.560
Um, but evibe truly is built by lived experience for lived experience.
00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:31.199
And those convers it's not like a team of C-suites, like making all the big decisions, you know, for on behalf of those impacted.
00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:37.120
Like it is a collective conversation, and everybody involved is so passionate.
00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:46.560
They've either be been touched by somebody in the space, their own personal experience, or just passionate about humanity and and doing that work.
00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:57.360
So yeah, like one of the questions that we asked him, and I'm still kind of thinking about it, it's like, if Sam didn't do this, would anyone have done this at this point?
00:02:57.439 --> 00:02:57.680
Right?
00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:02.800
Like when like when he three and a half years ago was like, we need to create something.
00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:10.560
Like if if he he saw that the casino was eventually going to be in your pocket and he realized that like sell like you know, support needs to be in your pocket too.
00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:18.639
And it's just like, it's just crazy to me that like there's not a bunch of other people or companies trying to do this.
00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:23.919
And I know there's others that are there are there's there because I get similar, but I get people who've reached out.
00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:34.240
I've even seen other apps who are using the same kind of language, but since we have been doing it for so long, it's like we can pen, like, hey, taking this language from us, or even sometimes the look.
00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:39.599
Um, but yeah, I mean, I think somebody would have and and have.
00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:44.240
I mean, the last five years, the amount of apps that are are coming up, and I think it will continue to grow.
00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:47.520
There'll be continue to be different apps to meet different needs.
00:03:47.840 --> 00:04:09.680
But I'm just gonna tell you right now, like the team that we have with eVive from our clinical advisory board, who are some of the top-notch clinicians, treatment providers in this space, researchers to like we've got a preventionist on the team, we've got like, you know, peer support or lived experience.
00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:12.879
Um, so I mean, just the collective team we have.
00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:14.479
Like I'm staff.
00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:15.520
We we really are.
00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:17.680
And we're we're gonna continue to to create.
00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:27.040
So this it sounds sales pitchy, but this is really just us and for you to get to know the people who are who are on the other side of it.
00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:36.160
And no, and I think like in I think, you know, as Sam mentioned too, that like, you know, we've reached almost 11,000 users with zero marketing, with zero advertising.
00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:41.600
And once we start ramping this up, you know, I know we're gonna start creating more content, we're gonna start getting on the road more.
00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:42.800
It's it's exciting.
00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:50.639
It's people are really gonna start seeing um not only the results of the app, but like you said, maybe like giving some people some behind the scenes looks.
00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:57.600
And so uh I'm really excited for for the coming year and beyond.
00:04:57.839 --> 00:04:58.720
Yeah, same.
00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:00.319
But yeah, so here it is.
00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:06.560
Uh I guess you could say he's a recurring guest because he was our guest on episode one, and he is now our guest again.
00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:10.000
Here is our conversation with Sam DeMello.
00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:13.279
Hello, everyone.
00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:15.439
Welcome to another episode of EVIB Live.
00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:16.639
My name is Adam Lyons.
00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:21.439
I'm here with Christina Cook, and uh you guys see who's here.
00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:25.360
The godfather, the founder, the guy.
00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:27.600
Christina, what are you making that face for?
00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:29.199
I'm like, okay.
00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:32.720
Well, I'm making that face because I'm turning 40 in six months, dude.
00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:34.560
I don't need to be called the godfather.
00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:37.439
I'm having a bit of a midlife crisis, dude.
00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:38.240
You say the young.
00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:39.040
Sam.
00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:39.759
It's Sam.
00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:49.519
Sam DeMello, founder, CEO of EVE, our boss, our friend, our fellow person in long-term recovery from gambling.
00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:51.439
I'll take that back.
00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:52.720
You're in puberty.
00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:54.879
We got we got Adam going back to puberty.
00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:57.120
We got Sam aging into middle age.
00:05:57.360 --> 00:05:58.079
All right, we'll just keep that.
00:05:59.360 --> 00:05:59.920
We'll keep that.
00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:00.879
Sam, Sam.
00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:02.720
So happy to have you back.
00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:04.160
Welcome to eVive Live.
00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:05.360
Thank you for having me.
00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:07.839
It's awesome to be here and to wait in line, you know?
00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:09.600
So many awesome guests.
00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:11.360
I know, I know.
00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:20.639
Um, so yeah, we just want to kind of, you know, obviously, Christina and I know as employees of eVive, there's seems to be updates almost daily.
00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:23.040
Um, there's a lot of exciting things going on.
00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:29.199
But um, yeah, give us, you know, not like a state of the union, but like what's going on with eVive.
00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:31.600
Tell us about actually, you know what?
00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:33.519
Let's start with the evive foundation.
00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:37.600
I think that's like a great place to start because I know there's a lot of buzz surrounding it.
00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:42.480
So tell, explain to the eVive live audience what is the evive foundation?
00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:45.360
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:48.319
So maybe we can do a little bit of both, right?
00:06:48.959 --> 00:07:04.639
I founded eVive in 2023 because I had opened up about my own gambling addiction on a Reddit thread, and all of these people started to say, man, I had the same experience, and you know, I'm going through it too.
00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:06.240
I need some support.
00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:14.879
And the first bit of data that I really, you know, dove into was what was happening in the public health system, right?
00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:23.120
What states were doing about gambling addiction and their own jurisdictions, how many people were connecting with support, etc.
00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:28.399
And what I found from that was pretty simple in my head, right?
00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:31.360
We had all of these people that needed help.
00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:35.680
And unfortunately, they weren't engaging with services, right?
00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:41.680
It's something that like less than 10% of people that struggle with gambling ever reach out for help.
00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:47.600
And it's like less than one or two percent of them that reach out to some kind of public health system.
00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:52.720
And I thought, okay, we have a phone number as our main entry point.
00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:56.959
That's great and important, but it's not enough to connect people.
00:07:57.040 --> 00:07:58.720
We have to meet them where they are.
00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:06.720
We're gonna build this application and we're gonna build this bridge between the people that need help and the system that is there to support them.
00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:09.120
And it's easy, right?
00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:14.319
You just take the people from here and you and you bring them there, and it was a it was a one-way bridge.
00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:18.800
And that was really my entire thought process in the beginning.
00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:29.680
And now I've spent the last three and a half years working really closely within the system and having these awesome partners in all of these states.
00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:33.120
And the problem is way deeper than that, right?
00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:40.639
It's not as simple as just, hey, let's bring these people into this amazing, incredible system that is perfect for everybody.
00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:44.720
They're actually major glaring holes in our system.
00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:56.879
You know, some states have super robust programming, they have public department, you know, public health budgets, they have peer support, they have counselors, they have awesome training and outreach.
00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:00.399
And some states don't have any of that, right?
00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:06.000
So my thought process behind the eVive foundation was really kind of three things.
00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:13.279
One, how do we bring e-vive into places that don't have any public health support, right?
00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:29.440
We're now working in like 20 states, which is really exciting, and we're working with councils and public health departments and these different organizations, but there's like 17 states in the country that don't have any public money, right?
00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:40.639
They they don't have any support, they don't have any services, you know, even the councils that exist in places like Mississippi and Texas, they're working with almost nothing, right?
00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:53.759
So I figured if if we had a foundation, we could find philanthropists that really care about this issue, and we could help generate funding to bring eVive and other services into all of these places.
00:09:54.000 --> 00:10:00.399
Because fundamentally, I believe that your access to support should not depend on where you live, right?
00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:01.759
What your zip code is.
00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:03.919
I think everybody should have access.
00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:07.360
So that was really the first thing that we were trying to solve.
00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:12.159
The second piece actually came really organically from eVive.
00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:20.799
Up until December of last year, we had an online community, but that community was only available through the web, right?
00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:24.639
It wasn't really integrated into the application.
00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:36.639
And then in January, we integrated it into the application, and we ended up taking over this long-standing peer support platform called Gamtalk, which was based out of Canada.
00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:42.320
And overnight, the engagement in the community just exploded, right?
00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:51.200
I think we had something like 50 active members in December that generated 500 posts and comments, right?
00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:56.159
And maybe we had like 2,000 people looking and reading them.
00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:09.360
And six months later, you know, we have 800 people a month that are generating 25,000 comments and posts, and you know, we have 70,000 page views in the community, right?
00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:13.120
It's really become the heartbeat of what we do.
00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:21.519
The peer support, the meetings, the feeling that you're not alone, like this is really what the community does.
00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:28.879
The challenge is it's very hard to support all of that without any funding from the states, right?
00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:42.320
Most states have budgets for prevention, they have budgets for public awareness, they have budgets for treatment, but peer support is something that they're just kind of getting wise to, right?
00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:50.639
So if we have all of these people in the community, and the number one thing that they need is peer support, we have to find a way to give it to them, right?
00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:53.440
So that was another big reason.
00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:57.039
Could we use the foundation to support the community?
00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:10.639
And could we use the foundation to take people in the community that have been in long-term recovery, that want to become certified peer specialists, that want a career path in this space?
00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:18.720
You know, could we get them certified and pay them a scholarship and create this, you know, workforce of peer supporters?
00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:22.799
Um, so that was another, you know, really pay a living wage.
00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:28.399
Sorry, gonna jump in there because it's really important to say that, to pay a living wage for a peer supporter.
00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:30.399
It is really important to say that.
00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:33.759
And I think this is one of the challenges, right?
00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:39.440
Oftentimes gambling addiction gets lumped in with substance abuse or alcohol, right?
00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:50.559
And obviously there are some similarities, that there are certainly similarities in in the recovery process, but I think the three of us know that gambling is kind of a different beast, right?
00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:53.039
Needs some different approaches.
00:12:53.440 --> 00:13:02.240
But when it comes to funding and the public health perspective, gambling is nowhere near substance use and alcohol, right?
00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:09.759
The federal government spends$20 billion plus a year on programming for substance abuse and alcohol.
00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:26.960
They spend zero dollars a year on gambling, which means that if you are someone like the three of us and you want to be a peer supporter for alcohol, you have incredible job opportunities and subsidized training and a pathway to a career.
00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:30.080
I mean, you can have that reimbursed by Medicaid.
00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:33.360
None of that exists in gambling.
00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:44.720
And I don't know, Christine, if you know this through your work in IPGGC, but there can't be more than a hundred of us certified peers in the US, you know, doing the gambling work, right?
00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:45.840
Less than 50.
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:47.360
Less than 50 currently.
00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:47.759
Yeah.
00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:53.679
And none of us can find long-term steady employment, right?
00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:57.360
Maybe if you're really lucky in a state that has it.
00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:08.799
But and there are a few states that have really good gambling peer programs, Connecticut, New York, um, some some really great, great programs out there, but across the the board, most states don't.
00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:09.840
Totally.
00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:12.320
On a national level, I think it's very difficult.
00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:19.679
And I think that this is one of the things that I've come to feel really strongly about in my own learning over the last couple years.
00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:21.919
Right now, the system in the U.S.
00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:27.759
is set up in a way that says, if you have a gambling problem, call a doctor, right?
00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:30.000
We will connect you with a clinician.
00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:42.320
When in reality, in talking to so many people, I think the most common desire if you have a gambling problem is to talk to somebody else that had a gambling problem and now has that more under control.
00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:58.320
So just like I don't see eVive as a replacement for clinical therapy or really anything else, I don't see peer support as a replacement for clinical therapy, but it is a hell of a shot in the arm, you know?
00:14:58.559 --> 00:14:58.799
Yeah.
00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:00.320
That's not just me.
00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:18.639
Like Birch's just released a uh, but Birch's Health, this awesome telehealth platform for gambling, they just released a study that showed that, you know, their members that were engaged in peer support along with clinical counseling did better, stuck it out longer, you know, had better outcomes.
00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:20.480
So I've always said that.
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:24.000
Like that's a that's that's the best circle of of care.
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:25.279
Totally.
00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:32.159
Um, so I really wanted to be able to fund and grow our peer support program and the community.
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:44.960
And I I think the the last piece is that I've felt very frustrated by the lack of funding to other organizations that are, you know, in the field doing really good work.
00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:59.679
Um, not to put you two on the spot, but you know, the number one driver of people seeking help through eVive is listening to somebody on a podcast, like the Broke Girls Society or the Modern Meeting.
00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:06.080
You're working out of your home offices with no budget and no financial support.
00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:08.879
That that seems crazy to me.
00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:19.200
So I really wanted to be able to fund, you know, people with lived experience and promote things like podcasts and new ideas.
00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:31.039
We're currently co-fundraising with this organization called Parent Standing Together, which provide peer support for families that are going through this, you know, their kids are struggling with gambling.
00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:32.960
It's an incredible organization.
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:45.039
And there just isn't a national level philanthropic organization in this space right now that is, you know, sustainably funding any of these things that we desperately need.
00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:53.440
So for me, eVive incorporated the business, the platform, like that will always be what it is.
00:16:53.600 --> 00:17:05.759
And we will continue to work with states and we will continue to hopefully win contracts and deliver our service and also, you know, help to modernize the state systems.
00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:10.079
They they get a lot more out of working with eVive than just the product, right?
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:14.559
They get all of us and the team and the lived experience at the table.
00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:27.519
But if we're gonna fundamentally change the gambling ecosystem, if we're really gonna build public support that works at a national scale, we we have to have a foundation.
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:33.680
We have to be able to go into these places that don't have funding and we have to be able to accelerate it.
00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.519
So that was really the idea behind the foundation.
00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:47.359
We're about a month into formally launching and announcing our first fundraising campaign, and it's been going really, really well.
00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:59.519
Um, I'm trying not to get out in front of my skis, but I think that gambling addiction as a public health issue is becoming more and more talked about.
00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:05.519
You know, every time I open up ESPN, it seems like every other day there is another gambling story.
00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:06.720
We see it on the news.
00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:12.079
I'm getting called a lot more by places like the New York Times who are diving into this.
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:19.839
And in general, I think that the discourse in this country is largely should we regulate this?
00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:21.599
Should we not regulate this?
00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:22.720
What is gambling?
00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:24.240
What is not gambling?
00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.680
You know, how do we put this genie back in the bottle?
00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:30.640
And my perspective is you can't.
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:32.559
The genie is out of the bottle.
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:35.920
This is a borderless digital activity.
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.640
It doesn't matter where you live today.
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:42.160
You have access to gambling through regulated books.
00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:50.160
And if you don't, social casinos and daily fantasy sports and prediction markets and all of the other things.
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:55.519
If we're gonna address this issue, we have to build a public support system, right?
00:18:55.599 --> 00:19:02.319
We we have to take a public health model, and we need to be in a national position to do that.
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:15.440
So yeah, I mean, that all sounds amazing, and I'm excited, and I cannot wait to uh, you know, not have you guys have to look at my potty award and get some uh get a cash infusion to the modern meeting of the broker society.
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:16.480
No, I'm kidding.
00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:27.279
But um, but no, so I guess my follow-up question that I'm sure a lot of other people are thinking as they're listening is uh that all sounds great, Sam, but like where's this money coming from?
00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:33.519
Because, you know, from uh from my experience in the last year and a half working in the space, nobody can find any money.
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:35.279
So where are we gonna find the money?
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:37.359
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:43.680
So I think the money comes from three places, um, or at least we've seen three places so far.
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:52.720
The first one is just small donations from everyday people, you know, including some of our community members, which has been totally overwhelming to me.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:53.039
Right?
00:19:53.200 --> 00:20:00.240
I eVive is completely free and that's important to me, and I never want anybody to have to pay for support.
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:09.119
But the fact that these folks are like, thank you for what you've done, and now we're gonna financially contribute is like it's it's very overwhelming.
00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:13.680
The fact that they're in a place and they're able to probably means more to them than anything.
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:14.160
Yeah.
00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:15.519
That that too.
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:32.799
So we've had a lot of broad support with small donations from folks, and I think, you know, that really speaks to the fact that this is affecting millions of people around the country, you know, a lot of people coming out of the woodwork, my my mom, my grandma, my my son, you know, we we've all gone through this.
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:40.000
Um, the second place is, you know, philanthropic organizations and foundations that support this work.
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:53.039
You know, there are bigger people that are getting involved, like Arnold Ventures is a very big philanthropy that just announced that they're committing a little over two and a half million dollars to research on problem gambling.
00:20:53.279 --> 00:21:01.279
I think that that will continue, you know, and we're talking to a lot of these foundations and and grant-making organizations.
00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:05.039
And then the third place is the gambling industry.
00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:10.559
And I know this is something that is controversial in the recovery space.
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:12.880
I'll tell you my perspective.
00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:21.119
Like one, all money that goes into public health is coming from the gambling industry one way or another, right?
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:33.359
It's either being collected from taxes on revenues and put into a public health trust fund, you know, or it's coming from donations from these organizations.
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:41.039
I fundamentally believe that if they are part of the problem, and you know, they are part of the problem.
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:52.319
I don't think it's as black and white as they are the entire problem, but some percentage of people that are gambling at gambling companies are struggling with gambling addiction.
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.759
And, you know, that is a byproduct of this activity.
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.599
They should be paying to support the, you know, the.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.039
The recovery of these folks and and to help them.
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:06.559
So fundamentally, I believe that they should.
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:14.880
And for me, you know, it's about how we take the money and what the guardrails are.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:23.279
I think that the NCPG comes under fire quite often for taking all of this money from the gambling industry.
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:27.440
And I also think that that's a little simplistic, right?
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:34.880
I don't fault the NCPG for taking funding from the gambling industry.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:40.319
I do fault them for what they do with the money or don't do with the money, right?
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:51.359
I think that people would be a lot less upset about Calci if the NCPG had been providing really effective, meaningful, comprehensive support for the last 10 years.
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:55.119
You know, I don't know that we would see such a backlash.
00:22:55.440 --> 00:23:00.480
I also think the other challenge is how do you take it without influence, right?
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.880
The eVive foundation is not a membership organization.
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:08.400
These companies are not buying membership.
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.559
They don't have a seat at the table.
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:24.079
My, you know, rules with them are kind of guidelines for accepting this money is one, it has to be unrestricted or, you know, pointed at one of our existing charitable mandates.
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.759
And two, there's no co-branding.
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:36.799
You know, no one is ever going to open up eVive and see this is brought to you by DraftKings or FanDuel or MGM, you know?
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:45.680
And if they follow, you know, those guidelines and they want to support our work, I will happily take their money.
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:49.599
I mean, I mean, in essence, it's all of our money.
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:51.039
It's just been laundered.
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:53.920
That's what we were talking about with Wiley, yeah.
00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:55.279
It is all of our money.
00:23:55.440 --> 00:24:02.160
And, you know, it's it makes me feel more independent taking it through the foundation.
00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:15.920
You know, if you have a contract to provide services and the client that you're providing services to doesn't like what you're doing, well, they have the power to revoke that contract, right?
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:20.160
And, you know, potentially influence what you're doing.
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:28.000
If these organizations are making an unrestricted donation to the foundation to support the work that we're doing, like that's it.
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:33.440
And if they decide that they don't like what we're doing, they won't make another donation.
00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:35.359
And I'm okay with that, you know?
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:35.839
Yeah.
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:36.960
Um Yeah.
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:42.640
I was just gonna say, I think that it all comes down to, like you said, what you do with the money.
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:51.519
Whether it's, you know, if DraftKings tomorrow said we'd like to sponsor the modern meeting, you just have to say at the beginning that this is brought to you by the DraftKings.
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:58.000
I might say yes to that, knowing that the next 59 minutes that the listener is listening to is gonna help them, right?
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:08.400
And so it's like we need to look at the big picture here where we can all agree that so many doors can be opened for people if we have the funding.
00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:11.440
If we have the money, let's get the money, right?
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:20.640
Like, and so as long as they're as long, like if if DraftKings said to me, like, you need to hit these talking points during the episode, no, no, no, no, I can't do that.
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:21.680
Just like, right?
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:33.039
But so yeah, I I'm so glad you're saying this, Sam, because I think there are probably other councils, maybe not councils, but there are other organizations out here who are kind of putting a line in the sand, like, we're not gonna take industry money.
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:34.720
It's like, well, where are you gonna get it?
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:36.160
Where are you gonna get the money?
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:39.359
I I take the same approach, you know.
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:48.640
I I took a little heat when we made our partnership with DraftKings last October and we made our product available, you know, within their platform.
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.440
I took a little heat from the recovery community.
00:25:51.680 --> 00:26:01.039
But at the end of the day, like I don't know if this is gonna sound like me shirking responsibility, but like this isn't my decision.
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:03.519
It's it's the mission of the company.
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:06.559
The mission of eVive is to meet people where they are.
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:08.319
They are on DraftKings.
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:14.079
If we don't show up where they are, we are not doing what we set out to do with eVive.
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:23.680
And I think the other piece that I would just put out there is oftentimes we we look at this problem, right?
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:30.640
We we we look at gambling problems and it becomes very us versus them with the industry, right?
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:44.960
But if you really boil it down, the moment that somebody on FanDuel or DraftKings or insert your company here goes to that company and says, I have a gambling problem.
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:46.559
Never contact me again.
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:48.559
I'm closing my account, right?
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:54.559
That person immediately goes from a customer to a liability.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:27:04.400
The only thing that that person can do from that point forward is have their life unravel and end up in the headlines, you know?
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:07.279
That that's not good for the gambling industry.
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:09.279
They they they don't want that.
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:14.079
They don't want people to be ruining their lives in that way.
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:19.279
They want a robust health system like I do, you know?
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:26.079
I think it's about finding a way to deliver that message, meeting people where they are.
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:30.240
And, you know, they're not gonna be our only supporters.
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:37.680
You know, I'd never want to get into a position where I'm putting up a sponsorship page and it's just all casino companies.
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:40.000
But it it's not gonna happen.
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:43.599
I think they could be a, you know, a leg of the stool, if you will.
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:53.759
And they have the added benefit of having our target audience within their walls in many cases, right?
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:57.279
So it's not just about financially supporting what we're doing.
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:02.640
You know, MGM was the first casino operator to do this with us.
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:07.200
And it's not like MGM is just giving us a check and saying, go and do it.
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:12.000
They're giving us free advertising throughout their brick and mortar casinos.
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:16.720
They're driving tons of traffic from people, you know, to eVive.
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:20.640
And that's more helpful in a lot of ways.
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:29.599
I was just gonna say, and that's why it's so important for everybody to have a seat at the table and the way that you're holding boundaries, but also like we've got to work together, right?
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:35.759
So the opposite of that was we don't get involved with industry, sports books, or anything like that.
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:40.880
And then our app is something that they have to find later when they're struggling, right?
00:28:41.200 --> 00:29:08.880
Whereas we can have these relationships and and create this support and resource, but also not only, you know, are they potentially going to help elevate the work that we're doing, but then we get access to all of their customer base and they get access to resources and support, hopefully, before it ever even becomes this unraveling situation that us three have been through.
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:26.720
And so just that access alone to be able to get in the hands of people who maybe aren't experiencing the harm yet or are starting to kind of experience the harm and be able to give them a little bit of understanding or and be able to intervene and say, hey, you can do this safer.
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:31.440
You know, you don't have to burn your life down like like some of us with it.
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:39.039
So it's like, I mean, that that's why it's so important to for off us all to set at the table.
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:41.039
Now it's not always gonna be easy, right?
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:49.359
We have our personal feelings, they have their things that they do that we're not always gonna be on board with, that type of thing.
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:55.920
But when you look at history with everything, right, there's always gonna be conflicting sides.
00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:11.359
But the the more paths that we can make that because our ultimate goal, my my passion and goal, your passion and goal, Adam's passion and goal is to meet the person that's struggling and and give them hope.
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:19.680
And by by these relationships and by this work, hopefully we're gonna do it sooner because we've been behind the curveball for so long.
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:23.200
And you know, that's my whole thought on it.
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:38.160
I get asked a lot about my my thoughts on working with industry, and I'm like, it's it's not the easiest thing for me because of the harm I experience and because of the conversations I have every day with people who have experienced harm, but I'm willing to build that bridge.
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:46.160
What's um what's funny about it too is that as you're talking, I'm thinking, you know, what has prevented people from doing this?
00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:51.839
And it's a lot of the same things that we struggle with with our when we were uh in active addiction, right?
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:55.839
It came down to pride, it comes down to ego, it comes down to holding resentments.
00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:13.680
And just like we need to let go of those things as we enter recovery, I think the this whole ecosystem, like if we would put ego aside and put pride aside and think about what is the most efficient and best way to help people, we would have came to this conclusion a while ago, which comes to my next question, Sam.
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:17.279
I've never asked you this in the year and a half that I've known you.
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:36.960
When you, you know, had this revelation in 2022, 2023 that you wanted to start this and you, you know, did some research and you're like, wow, there is there's nothing, there's no digital health app, were you kind of surprised that there wasn't?
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:42.880
Like, if there wasn't evive and sam, like would would there be anything?
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:51.920
Like what why do you think why was there such a blind spot in the recovery community at the at that point for like a digital health app?
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:53.599
Yeah.
00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:00.319
So I I made this post on Reddit in early March of 2023.
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:04.720
I got all of this feedback, and then that sent me down this research rabbit hole.
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:08.000
And I had no intention of starting a company like that.
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:09.599
That was not my goal.
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:14.000
Um my goal at first was oh, well, this is obvious.
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:17.359
I'm gonna go find the company that's already built this, and I'm gonna go work for them.
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:18.079
I need a job.
00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:19.200
It's perfect.
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:24.480
Um, and really the only app that I found at the time was Recover Me out of the UK.
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:33.200
And I I met with them and I kind of gave them my pitch for how and why I thought they could bring this, you know, more effectively to the US.
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:35.920
And they weren't particularly interested.
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:41.519
Um, you know, they were very nice, but they they were kind of like, go take a hike, buddy.
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.319
Um, and they're like, we got this, we got this.
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:45.039
Yeah.
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:51.440
And, you know, at that point, I I sat with it for a couple weeks and I was like, oh, it's a dumb idea.
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:54.720
Someone would have already done it if it was a good idea, you know.
00:32:55.119 --> 00:33:04.240
And then I just came to a point one day where I said, the worst thing that's gonna happen if I do this is that I'm probably gonna keep myself sober.
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:07.359
And that alone is is good enough for me.
00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:17.359
You know, I I never expected eVive to, I never expected to be having this conversation on a podcast that we're running, you know, three and a half years later.
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:22.799
But I also think that this is part of the beauty of of eVive.
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:25.680
Like I didn't have set intentions.
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:31.519
The reason that this company is evolving the way it is is because it's a it's a process.
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:36.400
I'm I'm learning more, I'm identifying gaps in the system.
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:46.400
Our team is growing, we're filling it with brilliant people, and we're able to do more and more and more and try to bring this thing together.
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:58.400
But I think the other piece here, Adam, that you know, is a big barrier is eVive is kind of the anti-business business.
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:07.119
Um, you know, when when companies are started, ultimately their goal is to make money, you know?
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:20.320
And the way that you make money in an application, a mobile application, is you charge people a subscription and you keep them coming back day after day after day.
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:23.440
We gave away eVive for free.
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:28.000
We said, hey, one version of success is that somebody uses this every day.
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:37.679
Another version of success is that they come in and find a local therapist or peer support group or something that works for them, and that's what they need.
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:40.639
Both of those things are successful for us.
00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:42.639
I got an email this morning.
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:43.760
It was awesome.
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:59.920
This woman wrote back and said, Hey, I just wanted to let you know I haven't used your app in like six months, but I just hit one year of gamble-free life, and I'm just so proud of myself and thank you for everything that you did in in the early days.
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:01.280
That's awesome.
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:07.920
That is what we're all about, but that would be terrible as a business owner that was charging subscriptions, you know.
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:08.480
Right, right.
00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:10.320
There goes a customer.
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:16.880
So I think similarly with the foundation and eVive, like, yes, this is a business.
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:21.760
Yes, we need to make money to keep the lights on and invest in what we're doing.
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.880
But at the end of the day, our currency is very simple.
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:26.400
Like, we're helping people.
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:29.440
And if they come to us, we will help them.
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:36.079
And the business part of it is figure out how to keep doing that for free, which is an interesting puzzle.
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:38.800
You know, but we keep doing it, doing it.
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:45.679
And that kind of brings me to our next piece of like the growth that we've seen within the eVive app itself.
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:48.480
Like, um, we were on a call yesterday.
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:54.559
Adam and I were on a call yesterday with some updates that are happening, gonna happen within the app.
00:35:54.719 --> 00:36:00.960
And we were just so blown away by like just how much, like when we first started, right?
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:11.519
We put together this app that was really beneficial and really helped people better understand their relationship with with gambling and whether they wanted to do it safer or find an abstinence way.
00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:16.719
I remember we had three stop or three pathways when we when we um started.
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:29.679
And now to just see the team that we've put together, the passion behind all of us in this, like even what the details around language, like we're like, let's not say it that way or let's focus on it this way.
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:31.840
And and the fact that we all have so much input.
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:41.039
But when I when I came on, we we don't have to rehash this story, but you and I met because you reached out about the app and then we we just built a friendship from there.
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:50.639
And you were like, hey, I needed some work, and you were like, Well, I could use you on some accounting admin side of things, which is my background.
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:54.880
And, you know, so we started part-time helping you out.
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:58.480
There was like a QuickBooks account with three things in it.
00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:01.840
And I'm like, Sam, like what's going on here?
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:12.159
Like, let, you know, and and so just from where we were two and a half years ago, and how our simple QuickBooks situation was so helpful.
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:25.679
And now we've gone through three levels of building out, and we're we're still finding areas that we need to build because that's just the rapid expansion that we've had and growing pains and all of that.
00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:33.679
But we we each bar that keeps putting there on like building this thing out, and it's at times overwhelming and scary.
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:37.920
And I'll question myself am I am I qualified for this?
00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:43.679
But each time I keep trying to reach that bar, and I'm like, you know what, I can figure this out, I can get there.
00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:46.639
And if not, I can I have so much support.
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:52.079
And we have the the resources to be able to pull somebody in on something.
00:37:52.159 --> 00:38:09.519
It's just it's been a really amazing experience, but just to see the transformation with the team, with the app, with the communities, with with everything in just the last two years, like it's beautiful and overwhelming and all the things.
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:11.519
Do you have do you have a question, Miss?
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:14.960
No, I just I really just wanted to share that.
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:17.519
Like let her talk, Adam, please.
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:27.519
Um, it uh so I think you know, I this is what attracted me to the tech field in in the first place.
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:32.079
You know, I've been working in technology for I don't know, 16 years now.
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:37.119
And for the first decade, I used to join companies when they were 20 or 30 people.
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:44.239
And then, you know, a year later, there's 200, 400 people, and you get to see this tremendous growth.
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:48.880
Um, it's much more overwhelming with our own company.
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:55.280
I have a lot more sympathy for previous CEOs that I worked for that I was like, this guy doesn't get it.
00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:58.079
Like, okay, no, I have more perspective now.
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:00.880
Um, but you know, it's interesting.
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:10.800
I as e Vive gets bigger, I struggle more with imposter syndrome and a lot of the questions that, you know, you're asking yourself, am I capable?
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:11.679
Am I qualified?
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:13.119
Like, what am I doing?
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:22.159
I recently reread Atomic Habits by James Clear, which is like one of my top three most influential books on my life.
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:30.559
And his main, you know, his main thesis is you don't rise to your level of your aspirations.
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:33.679
You sink to the level of your systems.
00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:41.199
You know, so if you want to go and win the basketball championship, it's not about just visualizing you holding the trophy.
00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:48.559
It's about you sitting there and focusing on practice and the fundamentals, you know, trying to get like Adam out there on the basketball court, just draining freeze.
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:48.960
Yeah.
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:53.280
And I've really tried to adopt that mentality with eVive.
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:55.599
People ask me all the time, like, what's the goal?
00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:01.280
25,000 members, 100,000 members, you know, like what's the goal?
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:02.719
I don't really have one.
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:10.880
You know, my my my goal is that I show up every day, I look at what the situation requires, and we we we try to fix it.
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:12.960
The growth has been tremendous.
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:15.920
I mean, we've basically doubled over the last year.
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:20.400
We now have nearly 11,000 people that have downloaded the app.
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:25.280
We have about 500 people every single day that are in there and engaging.
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:28.880
The community growth has been just unbelievable.
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:37.599
Like in January, which seems like a long time ago, we had our first eVive community meeting with Adam and the Modern Meeting meeting.
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:40.079
And I think we had seven or eight people come.
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:55.679
And now nine months later, we have like over 15 peer support group meetings a week, and they're all of these awesome partnerships with, you know, the Broke Girls Society and parents standing together, and it it just keeps growing.
00:40:56.079 --> 00:41:04.719
So for me, I I try to just maintain the this is our mission, this is what we do.
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:10.480
Sometimes that's going to, you know, the way in which we do it is going to evolve.
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:12.880
And I used to say this when I spoke.
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:22.639
It's like, if we find out that the best way to help someone with a gambling problem is to show them videos of kittens playing with balls of yarn.
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:24.719
That's what eVive will become.
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:27.280
You know, I I did not I'm here for it.
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:28.079
I'm here for it.
00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:28.719
Totally.
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:33.840
And and all I mean by that is I didn't set out to build the world's greatest mobile app.
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.719
The mobile app sounded like a great solution.
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:40.880
I didn't intend to build this huge community with peer support.
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:44.639
I never intended to become a certified peer supporter.
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:48.880
I didn't even go to meetings for the first three and a half years of my recovery.
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:51.039
I was the anti-meeting guy.
00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:57.519
And now I do all of those things because they it is what the community requires.
00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:04.000
And it's part of the reason that we need to maintain our independence, you know.
00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:11.360
It's part of the reason why we're launching a foundation and we're not going out and raising$2 million in investments.
00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:27.360
If we had a bunch of external investors at this company that were looking to make a profit, I could have never given away our product for free to DraftKings last year, and we wouldn't have helped those 500 people that have come through that channel, right?
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:30.960
It's it's not it's not good business practice.
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:36.000
But my goal is to not, you know, it's not to build the world's biggest business.
00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:42.639
It's to solve this problem and build a connected solution for people that are struggling with gambling.
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:43.920
Like, period.
00:42:44.400 --> 00:43:02.159
I mean, what I'm hearing, and it's a beautiful thing, it's like, it sounds like e-vibe is is similar to someone in recovery, where it's like, you know, taking things a day at a time and we're putting in the work, we're creating systems, creating habits, and all these goals that we have, you know, we want to get to one year, we want to get to two years.
00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:10.079
Those things will, may, may not, but most likely will happen if you just keep doing the work.
00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:11.440
Keep your head down, doing the work.
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:12.559
And that's like, that's beautiful.
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:18.400
It's like it applies to recovery, and it sounds like it applies to evive too, which is, you know, it's amazing.
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:25.679
And again, like not to I I would be devastated if eVive fell apart, right?
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:27.599
I'm not gonna say it would be okay.
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:33.920
But my original goal with this whole project was to keep myself sober, you know?
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:42.239
And oh my God, the amount of just growth and support and learning that I've done over the last three and a half years, it's funny.
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:50.239
The the bigger that evive gets, uh I send a message to everybody that joins the community and I respond to all of their posts.
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:54.800
And the bigger that evive gets, the more I get people that are like, oh, Mr.
00:43:55.039 --> 00:43:59.679
Powerful CEO man, like how nice that you deign to speak.
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:00.639
With me.
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:04.480
And it's like, I don't do that because I have to.
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:11.199
You know, it's actually probably not the thing that I should be doing with the most efficient use of my time.
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:14.159
But I do it because it's what I need.
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:16.159
It's my daily practice, right?
00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:23.760
It keeps me rooted in recovery and it keeps me rooted to the experience of this thing for everybody.
00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:31.519
You know, I think the only person who doesn't like it is Phil, our CTO, because I use the community all the time and I'm like, hey man, this thing is broken.
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:34.239
Shout out to Phil.
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:36.960
Shout out to Phil, who is the absolute best.
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:45.840
We have a lot of people behind the scenes that you scenes that you guys don't really get to see, but they are just as passionate about eVive and everything we're doing.
00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:52.719
And the second email that these community members send to Sam, they say, wait a minute, are you the drummer of Nate Perry and Ragged Company?
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:54.639
And then he's like, I am.
00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:55.679
Yes.
00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:57.039
Exactly.
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:08.880
Having the uh having the band that I play with start to blow up a little bit during this whole journey that we're on has been a uh an interesting interesting wrinkle in my life.
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:11.119
Um but it's it's fun.
00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:18.159
I think we're getting to a point in the community where yeah, we have enough musicians in the community that we're gonna start the e Vive band at some point.
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:20.320
I mean, I'm waiting.
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:21.679
Come on, let's go.
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:24.800
Um, so Christina, can I do the honors?
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:25.519
Yep.
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:26.400
All right.
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:27.360
I'm I'm excited.
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:30.239
I get to ask the Christina question, the last question.
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:33.280
Sam Damello, we appreciate your time.
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:34.079
This has been amazing.
00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:35.519
We have one last question.
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:37.360
What gives you hope?
00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:38.800
What gives you hope in the space?
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:40.159
What gives you hope for eVive?
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:41.679
What gives you hope?
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:44.639
There's so many things that give me hope.
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:49.119
Um, I get I get accused of being overly optimistic a lot.
00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:55.119
Um so here's what gives me hope for eVive and the space.
00:45:55.599 --> 00:46:12.400
I I think the power to change this situation that we're living in in the United States, where gambling problems are becoming and and are a real epidemic, I I think that the power is in people.
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:27.440
People who have lived this experience of gambling addiction are the most qualified and most capable of helping someone else that is going through it.
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:48.880
And watching what's happened in the community in the last nine months, where people that came in in January and were just at rock bottom, broken, lost, struggling, couldn't put together more than a couple days of white knuckle abstinence, and now they're they're stable, right?
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:56.239
And they're and they're cruising and they're they're feeling really solid in their recovery, they're not going away.
00:46:56.400 --> 00:47:03.440
They're turning around and helping the next batch of people that are showing up that are broken and struggling.
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:14.320
And if evive can facilitate this, you know, each one teaches the next one, and it starts to spread out in that way.
00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:22.079
I I really think that that is has the power to change the course of this epidemic, you know.
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:27.280
A lot of times we say we're at the tip of the iceberg, right?
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:28.239
We are.
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:35.039
We know that statistically it takes about eight years for people to go from gambling problem to rock bottom.
00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:38.480
And we legalized sports betting eight years ago.
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:42.159
We we haven't even seen the wave yet, right?
00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:44.239
And we are behind the curve, Christina.
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:48.159
Like I feel that too on my on my pessimistic days.
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:52.239
But I think that we're modeling a solution.
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:58.880
I think that we're able to convey the power of peer supports in a scalable way.
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:01.679
And I think we're just getting started.
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:09.760
I I don't want to freak you all out, but 11,000 members is fantastic and bigger than my wildest dreams.
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:14.559
But in the last three and a half years, we've never advertised this thing.
00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:21.440
This has grown through word of mouth and, you know, maybe a link on a state website.
00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:36.800
In the next three months, in these states that we've been working in that are getting really confident and comfortable with eVive, like Massachusetts and Ohio and Michigan and Illinois, we're gonna start really marketing this thing.
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:39.440
And I think that it's going to explode.
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:47.840
I think we're gonna be sitting here in another year going, oh my God, how do we have 25,000 people on this platform, right?
00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:58.800
Um so it gives me hope that people are coming out of the shadows and they're turning around and helping other folks.
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:05.360
I think the other thing that gives me hope is that there's just a lot more awareness about this issue.
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:11.440
Even in, you know, three years ago when I started this, nobody knew except for my wife.
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:18.800
And I I didn't see articles on a daily basis about this issue, but we're seeing them now, right?
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:20.719
We're seeing people talk about it.
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:26.159
It's it's in the it's in the American conscience, you know?
00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:34.880
And I think that's helpful because I always say helping people after they've been pickled, you know, is is important.
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:36.719
It's what I'm very passionate about.
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:40.159
But let's not make as many pickles, you know?
00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:52.800
The the day that a a parent sits down and talks to their kids about gambling the same way that they talk to them about sex and drugs, like that's what we need to get to, you know?
00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:53.199
Yeah.
00:49:54.880 --> 00:50:10.000
Even in our schools, in our school systems where they, you know, take a few minutes of the drug and alcohol and sex talk and and talk about just compulsive behaviors in general and gambling, like broaden that conversation so maybe we can get ahead of it.
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:11.119
So totally.
00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:14.320
Well, this was awesome.
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:17.760
Sam, thank you so much for coming on evive live.
00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:20.559
Uh, Christina, any, any, any last thoughts?
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:29.280
No, I, you know, I just I have hope in Sam because no matter how big this thing gets, he's still gonna be trying to c crash on like all of our couches.
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:33.519
And like, so he's not gonna be like that that big-headed CEO guy.
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:42.320
He's gonna be like, hey, I could save the$120 of the hotel if you'll just let me crash in your room or crash on your couch, or like, I'll just sleep in the car, guys.
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:45.840
It's the only reason why I got a two-bedroom now instead of a one-bedroom.
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:48.239
I knew that I I would need a place for him to sleep.
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:53.440
Christina, I don't know if you know this, but Adam and I are headed down to New Jersey next Friday.
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:57.840
And they were like, we can give you one hotel room for free, or you know, you can book one.
00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:00.320
I was like, Adam, we got two clean beds, dude.
00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:01.519
I hope you don't snore.
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:03.199
It's his funeral.
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:04.079
It's his funeral.
00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:06.079
I don't think that's ever gonna change for me.
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:07.199
I hope not.
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:07.840
Yeah.
00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:10.960
And that it's like that that gives me hope too.
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:12.239
Yeah, love it.
00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:16.639
And then I'm like economy plus on my on my thing.
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:19.119
You're like, is there something lower than economy?
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:21.519
Like, I'm I'm happy to hold my bag.
00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:23.199
Sorry, you can cut that out.
00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:35.760
But that's just at some point you guys can interview my wife, and you can, you know, she can tell you how annoyed she is that I own three t shirts and I just wear them on repeat.
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:37.440
It's true.
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:38.960
All right, all right.
00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:40.079
Awesome.
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:41.119
Thank you, Sam.
00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:42.159
Thank you.
