WEBVTT
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Hello, everyone.
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Welcome to another episode of EVI Live.
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My name is Adam Lyons of the Modern Meeting.
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I'm Christina Cook of the Broke Girl Society.
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And we are here this week for another.
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I guess it's not a solo episode because it's two of us, duo episode.
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No guests this week.
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It's just Christina and I talking recovery.
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I am so excited.
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Christina, how are you?
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I'm doing all right.
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I'm doing all right.
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Um, I was gonna say, correct me if I'm wrong, July 13th is what what what?
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Did you say it's your it's your what?
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It's my birthday.
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It's her birthday!
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Happy birthday.
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Sorry if you're if you couldn't, if I just blew out your eardrums, if you're listening to this, but yes, happy birthday, Christina.
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39 never looked so good.
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Right?
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Right.
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Like I'm just staying perpetually 39.
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Um same.
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Wait, are you so you're a cancer?
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I am.
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Okay.
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July Leo.
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Uh my birthday's in 15 days, no big deal from when we're recording this.
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But uh, what do they say about a cancer?
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I'm not an astrology guy.
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I think, and I feel like I'm I'm not really like I don't really lean into it too much, but I think from the from the stuff that I've read over the years, it's like we're we're loyal, we're homebodies, we're about home and hearth.
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And I really feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like that's that's me to to core.
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I'm I mean tremendously.
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I wouldn't say you're a homebody.
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I mean you you went to like 250 conferences in 2025.
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So I mean you get out, but but you prefer to be a homebody, I guess.
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I do.
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Yeah.
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I do.
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Well, happy birthday, Christina.
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Uh I'm sorry that you have to be recording this on your birthday, but it's gonna be fun because we have an awesome topic today.
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What are we talking about?
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Well, this is something that's kind of been making the rounds and um the BGS and and kind of um because it it's it's a response to a lot of like conversations, right, that we've had over the years.
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But I thought the topic today could be expectations versus reality of recovery, right?
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I think it's easy for us to have these expectations that like when we finally decide, hey, we're gonna leave the gambling behind or whatever the compulsive behavior is behind, that then the life our life is gonna go back to the way it was before the addiction disorder disease, however anybody identifies with the issue, um, you know, like your life is just gonna go back to the way it was before.
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And or that maybe recovery was gonna fix everything and and be good.
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And so I I thought this would be a great topic to just dive into and navigate and share our own experiences of what we thought versus what really happened, good and bad.
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Totally.
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And I uh, you know, I as you I I think about the fact that when I was in active addiction, expectations were such a it was such a trigger for me, or it just it always set me up for failure because I either had these crazy expectations that I never met, or I went into something with high expectations and you know, I was disappointed that, or you know, I went in with low expectations, thinking something wasn't gonna be fun, and then it is, but it's like it all comes back to me just assuming, right?
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Like me just like thinking I know everything, like whether it's good or bad, you know?
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And so, you know, to your point, my initial thought was especially after I kind of hit the ground running in recovery, life is gonna be this is the last, this is the key to happiness in my life.
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If I stop gambling, everything else is gonna fall into place.
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And that is not what happens at all.
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No, I mean it it does eventually, right?
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And I think that, you know, this topic of yeah, hopefully, this topic of expectations versus reality, like it could go so many directions, right?
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You can delve deeper into um, you know, there's just so many levels of it, right?
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But I think when I was thinking of the topic and kind of what I've talked about in the community and in the BGS is like, you know, there's always this this fear of the unknown first, right?
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Like we're just for me, I always have to bring it back to just me, right?
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Because my experience is mine.
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And I was really scared of what my life was gonna look like without having the crutch of gambling.
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Like, and I've talked a lot about this, as sick as this is, gambling got me through a lot of life, got me through a lot of hard things in my life.
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Um, I was diagnosed with cancer and active addiction.
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It got me through the treatment of that, it got me through a very abusive relationship.
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You know what I mean?
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So, as sick as my relationship was with gambling, it got me through a lot of other sickness.
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And now that I was kind of at this point where I now I needed to leave the gambling behind um to be better and to to have a healthier life.
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And I was just really scared of what that was gonna look like.
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Like, what was it, how was I gonna navigate everything else that I navigated with gambling?
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But it really kind of came to this point of well, you really weren't navigating anything, you were avoiding it and not having that crutch.
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You know, it was just gonna make a lot of hard things happen.
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And I was just really scared about how I was gonna cope cope with that.
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I was really scared of what it was gonna look like on the other side.
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Um, so I don't know that I actually had an expectation of what recovery would do for me.
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I think I just had a an expectation that I would like the red carpet would be rolled out and like everyone's like, Yay, yay, she's coming to recovery.
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Yeah, let's let's all show up for her.
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And you know, there was some there was a lot of that, but there there were some realities of that too.
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100%.
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And you know, I this is a little off topic, but not really, I don't think.
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But like when I hear people like you and and so many others have shared that same experience of you know, gambling helped you get through specific moments in your life, whether it was the loss of a loved one or you know, a health scare.
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And when I think about my gambling, for the majority of it, and this is I don't know if this is my ego or if this is not the right way to look at it, but it just really bums me out to think that like I had a pretty great life and I really didn't have much trauma.
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I mean, I had some trauma, but like these events that people talk about, I didn't have any of those.
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I just kept gambling definitely to escape, but I think it was more of like a bigger picture.
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Like I I kept gambling.
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I I still don't know the why, but like one of the big reasons why is that I just wanted to hit that reset button and get back on track.
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And as I kept going further and further down this awful path, I kept getting further and further behind, once again, bringing it back to expectations, where I thought I would be in my life at that time, right?
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And so I thought the only way to get there was to get that big hit to erase all of the losses.
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But yeah, I um I I I never I I I never quite appreciate the fact that gambling was a good thing for some people.
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I mean, I it kinda, right?
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Like if it helped you get through this awful experience, it's not the best way to get through it.
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But like, I don't know.
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I I think there's a little bit of uh I don't think there's like a noble way to be a compulsive gambler, but you got you get what I'm saying?
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Like, like you guys kind of had no choice, or like it was it was a way to get you through a dark time where I was just I was just doing it to do it.
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I don't even know.
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I it's just well, I think it's probably a little more complex than that.
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And I think that there's you know, whatever happens and how how these behaviors start to develop is around how we just manage life, right?
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Yeah, and for me, I just chose to manage it like to avoid my feelings and lean into gambling, which made me feel good at times, you know what I mean?
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And and so like I definitely when I look at my why, is I had a very avoidant behavior pattern my whole life, just avoided hard stuff.
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And I didn't know how to navigate hard stuff, and I think that kind of pairs into my avoidance of hard stuff.
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Like each challenge we go through, we learn how to navigate the challenges better, right?
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And or we we just learn so much from that, and and that's later in the episode, we'll get into what recovery taught me or how it taught me to do that.
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But I think, yeah, it was for me, it was just gambling was just a means for me to continue to avoid life and hard stuff and hard conversations and all of that.
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And so I think there was just a lot of fear going into recovery of like it's gonna break down this avoidant behavior that I have and this trauma and harm that I've experienced and things like that.
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And I was I was really, really scared about what that could look like for me.
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So I think whether it's we have an an a complete understanding of why, there's always something.
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Like I can't tell you how many times I've talked to somebody through a pure conversation of like, I don't know why I have a good life, had a good life.
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Um, and then we start to do the the digging, and you're like, Oh, oh, okay, all right.
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Sometimes it's just not obvious.
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And but here's a question is the why important to you?
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Uh you know, I used to say no, and I still think it's more no than yes, but I'm starting to get curious because of what we're gonna talk about.
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I I'm four years, five months, and five days into my recovery, and you know, I still have a lot of work to do, and I think knowing the why might help expedite that process a little bit.
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Hmm.
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And how do you plan to problem solve that?
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Currently going through the steps with Sal, and uh, you know, I uh I I I've been I've been dancing around the idea of possibly going back to therapy.
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Um, I don't know.
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But I I think the steps are gonna uncover some stuff for sure.
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Most definitely doing them.
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I think that anybody could do the steps, whether you're a person who struggled with a disorder or addiction, I think it just helps us unlayer and dig a little bit.
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And um it I think it it benefits us in a way that oftentimes we're not, especially if things are going right, we're not looking at how we can do better, right?
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Things are going right.
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We just continue on.
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I think step work is great for that.
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What about you?
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What about you with the why?
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Yeah, I think it was really important to me.
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Um, I think the why really helped me uncover the avoidant behavior.
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Like I'm just not a confrontational person.
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I don't like hard conversations.
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I mean, anybody that knows me well, like I have a soft demeanor.
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Um, except for Adam, he gets yelled at all the time by me, but it's work-wise.
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Um, but you know, I've just I just want things to be easy.
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I want people to be happy.
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And oftentimes that costs me my own happiness.
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And I think because I avoided those hard conversations, I avoided, you know, sharing my actual feelings for, I mean, I can, we can like if we've got an hour therapy session, I'll untangle it all for you.
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But it's it's very, it's very important to me to have that understanding of why so that I can be more self-aware.
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I can correct those patterns and I can just understand where the work needs to happen.
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And to your point, I just don't think it's like we go through recovery, we go through the 12 steps.
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It's all super helpful and helps us grow.
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But it's not like we're gonna then know what to expect for the rest of life.
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Right.
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What all of that does, it just gives us the tools to navigate what comes next.
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And that's the thing with life.
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We never know what comes next, but if we have the tools, resources, and support to navigate it, we're just gonna get through it that much easier.
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Um, so you know, that's that's always my goal in this work.
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Would you say that would you say that it's it's almost um harmful?
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Not harmful, but what do you think of the idea that like someone being almost too self-aware could be a bad thing?
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Like someone who thinks about everything so much, and someone who is super empathetic, someone who I because I kind of feel like that's where a lot of my anxiety comes from and my neuroses is that all of my senses I feel like in recovery are just dialed up a lot, and I can't shut it off.
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I can't I can't relax.
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I don't know if that's a recovery thing or if that is but I but I I I don't know, like it's it's one of those things where like when you see someone walking down the street and they just seem like they don't have a care in the world, I don't know if I can ever get in that headspace ever where I'm just you know what I mean.
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Yeah, I do.
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There's always something going on.
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I think I and there's probably a therapist listening to this that could probably be like, well, this is what this is, but right, right, right.
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I think, yeah, I think that heightened self-awareness, but I also like for me it's definitely a trauma response to be just hyper focused.
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I I mentioned that I was in a very abusive relationship and it was very um uh mentally abusive, and I had a hard time naming it, but that just made me just constantly try to think about how somebody's movements, engagements, things like that.
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So I was constantly like hyper-focused on the room.
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I think a lot of that's just from my own childhood, how I grew up and kind of the stressful environment that I grew up in.
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So definitely for me, it's more of a trauma response.
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Like I'm hyper-aware, hyper-focused, hyper-critical of how I navigate.
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And this is still work that I have to do too.
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This is a lot of work.
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I'm untangling a lot of the harm from the abuse, you know, some childhood stuff.
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And but yeah, it's like you're always turned up and you feel everything that much harder.
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Like I'm very much like you.
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Like I see the guy walking down the street who isn't thinking about the email they just sent.
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Like, did I word that correctly?
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Right.
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You know what I mean?
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What's that response?
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Or somebody's um interaction with me, and I'm still thinking about it three days later of like, man, why did I do that?
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Why did I say that?
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Why did they say that?
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They must hate me.
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Um, so I think for me, it's just in those moments, I usually bring like my partner Dustin in or somebody to kind of help me untangle it.
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I will say that I've had a few moment moments recently where I've been able to navigate it and feel like, hey, that's just what it is.
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And I've been able to do that a little bit more of like, it's not the end of the world.
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If something's not right there, it I'll figure it out, I'll fix it.
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And so I've been able to kind of navigate that a little bit more.
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But it's I think it's just gonna be constant work, especially if we're like really kind of dialed up and just kind of really unpacking it, like how much of this is about me or how much of this is about the other person?
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And like I'm constantly doing that kind of kind of stuff.
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But um, let me ask you a question.
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Did you think was your expectation of recovery that it would just be this smooth, straight line that you were just gonna enter recovery, do whatever recovery asks without even really kind of knowing what that works look like, and just think this is just a one-way street here?
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Yeah, so it's interesting.
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I I think my expectations have changed um over the years.
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So I know that, like, you know, for the last two or three years of my 20 years gambling, when I constantly told people I'd be going to GA, I just need this last 500 bucks, I promise I'm going to GA.
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I just need this, and I promise I'm going to GA.
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My expectations at that point were it might help me, but I went once in 2009 and it didn't help me.
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So, but I know that that's what people want me to do.
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And then, you know, I after my first meeting in Austin, Texas, February 8th, 2022, my expectations went through the roof because I just had that moment.
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I had that spiritual awakening night one, and I was like, wow, like these people have 30 years, like this person has 20 years, this person has 10 years, and and I I think I can do this.
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So then my expectations, I don't think I necessarily thought it was gonna be a straight line, but I absolutely thought that like if I quit gambling, everything else is gonna fall into place.
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And I think about six months later, I realized that that is the furthest thing from the truth.
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And I can remember in my Tuesday night meeting, my in-person meeting in Rhode Island, this one guy who had like 20 years in GA and like 30 something years in another fellowship, at the end of every meeting, he would always say, if you keep coming, you follow the program, your life will be better.
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And I used to resent it because I'm like, I'm seven months in, I have not gambled, my life is not better.
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Like I it's it's what's that saying?
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Like it's the same, the same thing, like in a different outfit.
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I don't know.
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You do you know that saying?
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I don't know.
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We might cut this, but like it's like like my life felt all of the feelings I was feeling as far as like you know varying levels of like isolation, loneliness, depression, you know, wanting wanting to get everything fixed, wanting to be debt-free, wanting all these instant gratification type things, basically all my character defects.
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They were dialed down from a 10 to like a five, but the end result, I was, you know, I was living in a tiny apartment in Rhode Island.
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I was working in a restaurant that I hated, I was making poor choices uh occasionally, like, and so I was like, when is when is it gonna get better?
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And it wasn't until like I had some conversations with people where they kind of reined me in, was like, this isn't just about gambling.
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Like, this is about so much more than just than not gambling.
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And that's when I I started trying to do the work.
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I think it's that understanding that gambling is just the symptom of the issue, right?
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And most of the time the issue's internal.
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:38.240
It's how we're coping, how we're avoiding, how we're the stress, right?
00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:46.160
Like everything, the grief, whatever it is, it can be gambling, it can be shopping, it can be drinking, drugs, whatever.
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:50.640
Like that's the symptom of of the internal issue.
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:54.559
Um, I think, you know, very much that way.
00:19:54.720 --> 00:20:00.559
I think too, to tie in with that, I had the expectation that people in the rooms would have all the answers for me.
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:07.759
Like I would go into the rooms and and have all the answers, and I remember going into my like GA meetings and my life was falling apart.
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:09.759
And I would just go into these rooms crying.
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:13.279
And of course, I was in a room full of men, and they were just like, oh, okay.
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:15.839
Uh, and I would be in there and I'd be crying and then they're there.
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:16.240
Yeah.
00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:17.599
They'd just be like, they're there.
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:19.200
And I know I've said this, they're there.
00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:20.240
Let's read the yellow book.
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:22.960
And I'm like, is the yellow book gonna fix my life?
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:23.839
What page is that?
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:24.880
What page is that?
00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:26.240
Like, what is it?
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:27.759
Like, is this a step-by-step?
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:33.200
Like, how do you and and really, if you're in that program, it is like a step-by-step kind of process.
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:40.480
But for me, it just like I just thought I would walk into these rooms and everybody would be like, do this, do this, do this.
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:47.119
And I think, you know, the reality of that is everybody's lives are so different.
00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:50.319
Yes, we have this common issue, right?
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:59.119
And the way that I might interact with a certain program or something is just gonna be different because maybe my needs are different, right?
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:02.880
Maybe the space is not giving me what I need or whatever.
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:05.519
And so I think for me, it was like that.
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:08.000
That was the first time that I really learned.
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:11.359
Like I had this expectation that they all the knowledge was there.
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:12.960
And there is a truth to that.
00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:17.119
So don't walk away from this thing, Christina says, don't expect anybody to know the answers.
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:17.920
That's not true.
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:18.240
Right.
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:21.680
We all have our own experience and we can share that, and that's knowledge.
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:28.240
But I just thought it would be this do this, this, and this, and your life will be perfect.
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:32.640
And most of the time in the rooms, we're all still trying to figure it out.
00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:35.359
We're all still navigating the next thing.
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:43.039
And that's more than anything, what got me really curious in early recovery is like, okay, well, I like this part of this.
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:44.799
What can I do to add to this?
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.319
Or what can I do that's different but will help me in this way?
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:56.880
And so it's not like I, long story short, it's not like a I walked in the rooms expecting that they were gonna tell me what to do.
00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:06.240
And in reality, it they taught me how to be curious and figure out what I needed that that worked for me.
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:11.680
And that, you know, I absolutely love that about me.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:13.200
That was a piece I needed.
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:13.920
Yeah.
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:24.559
And, you know, to put a positive spin on the expectations uh piece, and you know, because Adam is often the glass half empty guy, uh, unfortunately.
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:38.079
But when I tell you what my expectations were as far as what I thought I was going to walk into in these rooms compared to what it actually is, like my expectations were I'm going to walk into what you see in a casino at 5 a.m.
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:38.400
Right?
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:45.039
Just a bunch of quote unquote degenerates, a bunch of people, a bunch of addicts, right?
00:22:45.519 --> 00:23:13.920
When in reality, and I used to kind of tiptoe around this, but I'm I'm ready to say this now and I I know you won't like me saying this, but like the people in these rooms, not all of them, but the people and it doesn't even mean they need to have a ton of recovery, but if I was making a list of like the top 50 people in my life who I think are like salt of the earth, who I think are people that are just, you know, amazing people living life, the first 30 of them are in these rooms.
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:19.440
Literally the greatest people I know in my life right now, I have met in these rooms.
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:41.440
And if you told me that driving to that meeting in Austin on February 8th, that you're about to walk into this GA, this gambler's anonymous room with a bunch of people that are compulsive gamblers and they're going to be the greatest people that you've ever met in your lives that have the the best heads on their shoulders that have the the most beautiful outlook on life, I'd be like, what?
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:48.640
But that is literally what happened and that is to this day the greatest people I've met in my life are in these rooms.
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:50.640
Why wouldn't I like you saying that?
00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:54.000
That's exactly because we don't like to we're not supposed to compare, right?
00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:56.880
Or we're not supposed to say, but like I don't care.
00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.839
Like my best friends are people in recovery.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:15.359
Like my I've not even I've got some friends that I had before like I always say before and after um before you know but I lost and damaged a lot of relationships and that can be our kind of a next question too is like I damaged a lot of relationships.
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:34.799
But when I entered recovery I had the expectation that these relationships would automatically repair right because I'm I'm trying to help myself and do better and and all these things and I just thought these relationships would I could make my amends and and build rebuild.
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:48.240
And that is a reality right that that's a really normal reality of like we we go through recovery and we work the the steps and we we work and amends um and hopefully rebuild those relationships.
00:24:48.559 --> 00:25:04.880
But what I didn't really expect and this could be good or bad um is that I was doing the work on myself I realized that a lot of those relationships weren't good for me and weren't good for my future self.
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:09.920
And it was kind of hard you know because a lot of them there was a lot of history there.
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:13.279
There was a lot of friendship there.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:32.079
But then there was also you know through the work and I was just like well some of those things are probably what led me into this help not led me not putting anybody else's accountability aside for me but my avoidant personality just didn't match with them.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:37.519
I I had the expectations that I would have the same friends like I would be able to repair rebuild.
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.680
But the reality of it is like I had to let those friendships go.
00:25:42.000 --> 00:26:01.680
100% and and and and and I can I can feel and I like I can feel the people listening right now who because I can remember when I was in active addiction I mean first of all everybody judges I don't care who you are what you say everyone has varying levels of you know judgmental tendencies.
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:32.079
But when you're an active addiction we judge we judge a lot and and we we assume and we for me at least like I was always looking at the negative part of it and you know when I thought about what if you if you asked me like in 2019 like what do you think GA is I'm gonna say all of the stereotypical things about like AA or addiction or and I know right now people listening are thinking that way.
00:26:32.240 --> 00:27:16.319
They're thinking that I'm saying this just to say it to get someone to come into the rooms I I'm looking into the camera I cannot tell you guys enough that the greatest people on earth are in these rooms and and and so for the people that don't want to be known and I get it there's all kinds of reasons why you wouldn't want someone to know that you're in recovery for an addiction but I'm telling you like it's it's in the long run you're gonna be happy and proud like I know to this day if I'm at a family function or if I'm anywhere and I say that I'm in recovery it's probably 50% people think that's awesome and 50% people judge me.
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:28.720
I don't give a shit you know what I mean like and I just oh I I just I I I pray every day that more people will will find that I don't even want to call it like courage.
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:48.160
It's not courage it's it's just about like taking that chance taking those steps not the actual 12 steps I'm saying taking literal steps into some form of recovery and then once you meet people that are walking that same path besides you like it's just it's just it's life changing it's literally life changing.
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:48.880
You know what I mean?
00:27:49.119 --> 00:28:25.440
Yeah like my my best friends are all in recovery like you and Sam and Kitty and Tara and like all these amazing people in my life they're all people in recovery they're all working on themselves that you know there's this emotional intelligence that comes with with recovery too and growth and and all of that and it's it's fantastic and when you can call somebody and you're struggling or in your head about something and you can say hey help me help me ununtangle this a little right um and when they know exactly kind of where it's coming from not like why are you overthinking this bro um stop overthinking it.
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:33.359
You know they're said like oh I get it let's let's kind of let's help determine what belongs to you where's work that you can do what belongs to the other person.
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:43.759
You got to give that back you know and it just it's just a different kind of support and to be surrounded in those rooms and I know that we can go on and on about that.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:56.880
But even like today my birthday I'm I'm going to lunch with women from you know this community that that I've met and befriended and it's just it's just really nice.
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:17.279
So let's answer a few more kind of expectations what is one thing that you would kind of the expectation or something that now you would kind of chuckle at like of like oh man I thought it was going to be this and now I'm just like it's it's so not this that's a good question.
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:37.680
Um you know I gotta say it I think uh the higher power stuff right the God stuff I think you know that was the one the one imperfection in my first three meetings in Austin was I couldn't get on board with the God stuff.
00:29:37.920 --> 00:30:21.920
And uh you know my expectations were that I was gonna spend the rest of my life in this program and that the people the fellowship was going to be my higher power and just like the people in those rooms told me like keep an open mind wait for the miracle it's gonna happen and I said yeah okay like zero expectations that I would ever get to a point where I am now where you know I I have handed over my life to a higher power and once again once again I can hear I can hear Adam of 2019 being like listen to this guy what is this Bible thumping well no that's not what I'm saying.
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:39.519
I'm saying that I understand that I'm a miracle like it is a miracle that I have not gambled in four years five months in five days and it's not just me you know and I believe that my higher power had a lot to do with it.
00:30:39.680 --> 00:31:28.799
And uh so yeah I think um I I I I do not think talk about expectations I thought there was zero chance that I would be saying these words ever again in my life yeah I think for me and I don't know if this is the question I'm really asking really aligns with either of these but these answers but for me it was always like all the sayings people would say to me when I come into recovery and I would just be like um like one day at a time and if nothing changes nothing changes and all of these things and I'm just like whatever like one day at a time like what does that even freaking mean right and here I am and I don't have my exact days because I never look at my exact days except I did the other day and this time next month I will be 2000 days since I placed a bet.
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:44.400
Wow um so which is just amazing but you know over five five years five and a half years since I I started hearing these things of like one day at a time and now I'm just like I get it.
00:31:44.799 --> 00:32:07.279
I absolutely get it because it's like if we really do live like if one the nothing changes nothing changes like that can't be more true if we don't change if we don't change our behaviors the way we're even accessing money how we how we navigate life's challenges like nothing's gonna change.
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:28.240
Yeah and you know the one day at a time like for me there were times where it was one minute at a time one hour at a time one day at a time and now it just like it seemed like so big in the beginning of like what does that even mean and now I'm just like I truly get up and I just live for today.
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:28.960
Yeah.
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:30.480
What do I got in front of me?
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:41.200
What can I like even if it's problem solving or you know spending time with family like whatever that looks like for that day it's literally just I'm living for today.
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:42.799
I'm not gonna gamble today.
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:47.039
I'm not gonna lean into behaviors that aren't helpful to me.
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:54.480
I'm going to try and just navigate this day ahead in in the healthiest best way possible.
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:56.079
And yeah.
00:32:56.400 --> 00:33:10.480
No and I and and I I think what's so important about your point that you just made is that and I hope for everyone who's early in recovery is listening to this that does not just happen.
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:26.799
You that state of mind and that way of thinking about life that happens through work right like that happens through repetition that happens through coming up with good habits and and sticking with them.
00:33:26.960 --> 00:34:19.199
That happens with aligning yourself with a sponsor or a mentor or a coach or a clinician and and and and walking that path with them because that was one of my expectations too especially when I was just reading the yellow book every day like I thought that going to a GA meeting and truly taking it in truly loving it finding my higher power that's all I needed no you need to take that information and then apply it to your life because life like you said life is gonna life life is there's there's gonna be things thrown at you with challenges but at the end of the day I do believe that not even just GA but all the different forms of recovery I hate the word blueprint because then that makes people think like I just need to follow the blueprint I'll be fine.
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:21.519
But that's what it is it is a guide.
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:50.480
It is a guide that no matter what's happening in your life you can always come back to that center understand you have this guide and it ain't going to be perfect but it is really I mean you have a leg up on everybody else who's just trying to flail through life on their own experiences and their own ego and their own self-confidence like we have we have a guide in recovery.
00:34:50.800 --> 00:35:10.719
Absolutely and I think too just to kind of close this episode out I don't know that we I mean I think we had a lot of conversation in there um but just to kind of close this out I think the expectation that recovery is going to give you your old life back and really kind of focusing on the reality of it is you're gonna build an entirely new one.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:39.920
Yeah who wants that old life I don't and and that's you know I always like there people are like oh I just want my old life back and I'm like well the old life though wasn't serving you which is why this you know gambling happened or whatever happened and like yeah there's pieces of it that we're always gonna incorporate in us but it really is about rebuilding and and having the expectations of like here's the here's the expectations that recovery is going to fix everything.
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:46.239
There is truth to that like working recovery is going to fix so much.
00:35:46.320 --> 00:36:05.039
It's gonna rebuild so much it's going to give you new tools but the reality is you're gonna have really hard days you're gonna have to do a lot of hard work and it's just not going to happen because you just stopped the gambling right it's it's gonna happen by those changes that need to happen.
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:06.960
It's gonna happen by showing up for yourself.
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:08.719
It's going to happen by showing up for others.
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:14.719
It's gonna happen by all these different things and you know that's the true reality.
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:29.119
So if I could leave you guys with this episode with a question, maybe a prompt or something it's if you could sit down with yourself on day one, what expectation would you ask yourself to let go of and what would you replace it with?
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:36.400
And you know be truthful be honest and kind of ask yourself well this is my expectation but what is the truth of it?
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:38.559
And kind of navigate it.
00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:43.760
Recovery is the best thing that ever happened to me but it's also the hardest thing that ever happened to me.
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:47.679
And one of my favorite recover recovery quotes is choose your heart.
00:36:48.159 --> 00:37:08.719
And that is so true because the heart of addiction right your gambling or whatever it is that you're working with um you know that might make you feel better temporarily but then you have all the chaos and the mess outside of it and it's not going to get any easier right when we're in addiction.
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:10.239
It's just not it's gonna get worse.
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:43.039
It's gonna things are going to get harder all of that then you have the heart of recovery it's hard work hard conversations lots of time invested hard boundaries you know all those things but over time your life continues to improve and there's no there's no time scale I mean it could be six months it could be a year it could be like me five years and and be like man I'm so glad to be here today um you know but there were probably times in that first second year that I was like why is this so hard?
00:37:43.119 --> 00:40:15.199
Even my third year I remember my third year felt like the hardest to be honest um you know so that's my and I also and I also think too not to keep I don't know how I don't know what got into me today with all these positive spin zones I'm I'm throwing out there but it's not like you you know but you know like the expectations of what your life could be in recovery whatever you think initially it could be ten times better than that it it could you you have no idea what you're capable of when you let go of this addiction you know and I and I think not to not to uh you know dangle the carrot or not to like you know make that person think like okay well yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna take over the world that no no no I'm not saying that but what I'm saying is is that in the early stages of recovery our expectations are like I just want to stop gambling I just want to be normal or I just want to you know I just I just want to be able to enjoy my grandkids and be present and okay yeah that's those are all doable but as you keep going and as you keep pushing and as you keep connecting and and and letting yourself you know letting your letting your talents show letting letting your personality show the possibilities are endless you you get whatever you want and then you get this confidence that I can do that I can do this you know I could go back to school I could I could change careers I could it all is a product of good recovery and good connection absolutely you know and and so yeah don't don't think that like I just want to stop gambling and uh you know enjoy enjoy my life keep uh you know like just keep keep thinking like you could do anything you want literally anything you want you know and that's and I have to tell myself that I still you know I still have my moments but man you and I are the product of this you and I are the product of this right before before we entered recovery my life was in a box and it was I was sleep gamble work sleep gamble work and even if you took the gambling out of it I just thought I'm gonna go work in this office for somebody else and just and and that's that's a good life I don't want to this conversation to go away from this but my expectation was that I would just continue the job that I had and you know rebuild.
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:34.320
But the reality of it for me was it it gave me a purpose and a passion and it gave me the ability to work in this space and really have an impact and I never foresaw that coming.
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:42.400
So it's like for me I and either way works right like really we just want to go back to normal way of living.
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:59.760
It could be new versions or or whatever but for me it just you know the expectation versus reality was just it blew the top off of that box and gave me an opportunity I I can't even sometimes comprehend.
00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:15.840
So yeah no I love it and and you know I think you know in closing you know the the only way to figure it out or the only way to you know because we always oh this might happen or this will happen or you know okay if I do this I could be out of debt next month years.
00:41:16.079 --> 00:43:05.440
Mm mm mm mm and you can always tell the people right the people that are in recovery that still talk like that they just haven't they haven't gotten it yet right like they haven't had that moment they haven't had that it and it comes in a variety of ways it could be a conversation you have with someone it could be a meeting it could be you know just a part of the literature um but once you once you once you get out of that looking 20 steps down the road and you start living like you said just living for today things truly do start happening like you said the cliches that we hear in the program forget it I just feel like the cliches in life you realize in recovery are all true right like time flies uh like basically any cliche you ever heard growing up treat people the way you want to be treated I mean Jesus Christ if if if we could all just think about that every day I mean how better would this world be you know but anyways we're we're I'm I'm going on a tangent but I just want to say happy birthday again um you know we're going to Nashville in like two weeks next week not even two weeks next week that's crazy it's literally eight days from now we'll be in Nashville wow yeah that's wild that's gonna be fun we'll get to spend a whole week together because then we're going to Baton Rouge yes yeah so if if yeah if you're gonna be at NCPG obviously come see us we're gonna be in in Nashville and then what's the thing that we're going to in Baton Rouge it's like it's in it's a Lsact yeah something like that but it's a it's an amazing it's like the biggest substance abuse conference in the state of Louisiana we're gonna be down there with our with our friends from MHSD shout out to Megan um but yeah come check come see us there we would love to connect all right another episode love it thanks everyone all right take care
00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:01.919
Hello, everyone.
00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:04.559
Welcome to another episode of EVI Live.
00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:06.639
My name is Adam Lyons of the Modern Meeting.
00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:09.279
I'm Christina Cook of the Broke Girl Society.
00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:12.240
And we are here this week for another.
00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:15.919
I guess it's not a solo episode because it's two of us, duo episode.
00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:17.120
No guests this week.
00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:19.519
It's just Christina and I talking recovery.
00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:20.719
I am so excited.
00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:22.480
Christina, how are you?
00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:23.760
I'm doing all right.
00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:24.879
I'm doing all right.
00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:31.359
Um, I was gonna say, correct me if I'm wrong, July 13th is what what what?
00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:33.280
Did you say it's your it's your what?
00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:34.880
It's my birthday.
00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:36.960
It's her birthday!
00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:38.240
Happy birthday.
00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:44.719
Sorry if you're if you couldn't, if I just blew out your eardrums, if you're listening to this, but yes, happy birthday, Christina.
00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:47.280
39 never looked so good.
00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:48.320
Right?
00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:49.520
Right.
00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:53.200
Like I'm just staying perpetually 39.
00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:55.600
Um same.
00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:58.000
Wait, are you so you're a cancer?
00:00:58.399 --> 00:00:59.039
I am.
00:00:59.439 --> 00:00:59.759
Okay.
00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:01.679
July Leo.
00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:05.439
Uh my birthday's in 15 days, no big deal from when we're recording this.
00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:07.680
But uh, what do they say about a cancer?
00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:09.519
I'm not an astrology guy.
00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:23.519
I think, and I feel like I'm I'm not really like I don't really lean into it too much, but I think from the from the stuff that I've read over the years, it's like we're we're loyal, we're homebodies, we're about home and hearth.
00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:29.280
And I really feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like that's that's me to to core.
00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:30.400
I'm I mean tremendously.
00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:32.959
I wouldn't say you're a homebody.
00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:35.840
I mean you you went to like 250 conferences in 2025.
00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:40.159
So I mean you get out, but but you prefer to be a homebody, I guess.
00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:40.719
I do.
00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:41.200
Yeah.
00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:41.760
I do.
00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:43.519
Well, happy birthday, Christina.
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Uh I'm sorry that you have to be recording this on your birthday, but it's gonna be fun because we have an awesome topic today.
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What are we talking about?
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Well, this is something that's kind of been making the rounds and um the BGS and and kind of um because it it's it's a response to a lot of like conversations, right, that we've had over the years.
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But I thought the topic today could be expectations versus reality of recovery, right?
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I think it's easy for us to have these expectations that like when we finally decide, hey, we're gonna leave the gambling behind or whatever the compulsive behavior is behind, that then the life our life is gonna go back to the way it was before the addiction disorder disease, however anybody identifies with the issue, um, you know, like your life is just gonna go back to the way it was before.
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And or that maybe recovery was gonna fix everything and and be good.
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And so I I thought this would be a great topic to just dive into and navigate and share our own experiences of what we thought versus what really happened, good and bad.
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Totally.
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And I uh, you know, I as you I I think about the fact that when I was in active addiction, expectations were such a it was such a trigger for me, or it just it always set me up for failure because I either had these crazy expectations that I never met, or I went into something with high expectations and you know, I was disappointed that, or you know, I went in with low expectations, thinking something wasn't gonna be fun, and then it is, but it's like it all comes back to me just assuming, right?
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Like me just like thinking I know everything, like whether it's good or bad, you know?
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And so, you know, to your point, my initial thought was especially after I kind of hit the ground running in recovery, life is gonna be this is the last, this is the key to happiness in my life.
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If I stop gambling, everything else is gonna fall into place.
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And that is not what happens at all.
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No, I mean it it does eventually, right?
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And I think that, you know, this topic of yeah, hopefully, this topic of expectations versus reality, like it could go so many directions, right?
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You can delve deeper into um, you know, there's just so many levels of it, right?
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But I think when I was thinking of the topic and kind of what I've talked about in the community and in the BGS is like, you know, there's always this this fear of the unknown first, right?
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Like we're just for me, I always have to bring it back to just me, right?
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Because my experience is mine.
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And I was really scared of what my life was gonna look like without having the crutch of gambling.
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Like, and I've talked a lot about this, as sick as this is, gambling got me through a lot of life, got me through a lot of hard things in my life.
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Um, I was diagnosed with cancer and active addiction.
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It got me through the treatment of that, it got me through a very abusive relationship.
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You know what I mean?
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So, as sick as my relationship was with gambling, it got me through a lot of other sickness.
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And now that I was kind of at this point where I now I needed to leave the gambling behind um to be better and to to have a healthier life.
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And I was just really scared of what that was gonna look like.
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Like, what was it, how was I gonna navigate everything else that I navigated with gambling?
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But it really kind of came to this point of well, you really weren't navigating anything, you were avoiding it and not having that crutch.
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You know, it was just gonna make a lot of hard things happen.
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And I was just really scared about how I was gonna cope cope with that.
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I was really scared of what it was gonna look like on the other side.
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Um, so I don't know that I actually had an expectation of what recovery would do for me.
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I think I just had a an expectation that I would like the red carpet would be rolled out and like everyone's like, Yay, yay, she's coming to recovery.
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Yeah, let's let's all show up for her.
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And you know, there was some there was a lot of that, but there there were some realities of that too.
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100%.
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And you know, I this is a little off topic, but not really, I don't think.
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But like when I hear people like you and and so many others have shared that same experience of you know, gambling helped you get through specific moments in your life, whether it was the loss of a loved one or you know, a health scare.
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And when I think about my gambling, for the majority of it, and this is I don't know if this is my ego or if this is not the right way to look at it, but it just really bums me out to think that like I had a pretty great life and I really didn't have much trauma.
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I mean, I had some trauma, but like these events that people talk about, I didn't have any of those.
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I just kept gambling definitely to escape, but I think it was more of like a bigger picture.
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Like I I kept gambling.
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I I still don't know the why, but like one of the big reasons why is that I just wanted to hit that reset button and get back on track.
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And as I kept going further and further down this awful path, I kept getting further and further behind, once again, bringing it back to expectations, where I thought I would be in my life at that time, right?
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And so I thought the only way to get there was to get that big hit to erase all of the losses.
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But yeah, I um I I I never I I I never quite appreciate the fact that gambling was a good thing for some people.
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I mean, I it kinda, right?
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Like if it helped you get through this awful experience, it's not the best way to get through it.
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But like, I don't know.
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I I think there's a little bit of uh I don't think there's like a noble way to be a compulsive gambler, but you got you get what I'm saying?
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Like, like you guys kind of had no choice, or like it was it was a way to get you through a dark time where I was just I was just doing it to do it.
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I don't even know.
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I it's just well, I think it's probably a little more complex than that.
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And I think that there's you know, whatever happens and how how these behaviors start to develop is around how we just manage life, right?
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Yeah, and for me, I just chose to manage it like to avoid my feelings and lean into gambling, which made me feel good at times, you know what I mean?
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And and so like I definitely when I look at my why, is I had a very avoidant behavior pattern my whole life, just avoided hard stuff.
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And I didn't know how to navigate hard stuff, and I think that kind of pairs into my avoidance of hard stuff.
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Like each challenge we go through, we learn how to navigate the challenges better, right?
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And or we we just learn so much from that, and and that's later in the episode, we'll get into what recovery taught me or how it taught me to do that.
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But I think, yeah, it was for me, it was just gambling was just a means for me to continue to avoid life and hard stuff and hard conversations and all of that.
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And so I think there was just a lot of fear going into recovery of like it's gonna break down this avoidant behavior that I have and this trauma and harm that I've experienced and things like that.
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And I was I was really, really scared about what that could look like for me.
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So I think whether it's we have an an a complete understanding of why, there's always something.
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Like I can't tell you how many times I've talked to somebody through a pure conversation of like, I don't know why I have a good life, had a good life.
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Um, and then we start to do the the digging, and you're like, Oh, oh, okay, all right.
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Sometimes it's just not obvious.
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And but here's a question is the why important to you?
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Uh you know, I used to say no, and I still think it's more no than yes, but I'm starting to get curious because of what we're gonna talk about.
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I I'm four years, five months, and five days into my recovery, and you know, I still have a lot of work to do, and I think knowing the why might help expedite that process a little bit.
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Hmm.
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And how do you plan to problem solve that?
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Currently going through the steps with Sal, and uh, you know, I uh I I I've been I've been dancing around the idea of possibly going back to therapy.
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Um, I don't know.
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But I I think the steps are gonna uncover some stuff for sure.
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Most definitely doing them.
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I think that anybody could do the steps, whether you're a person who struggled with a disorder or addiction, I think it just helps us unlayer and dig a little bit.
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And um it I think it it benefits us in a way that oftentimes we're not, especially if things are going right, we're not looking at how we can do better, right?
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Things are going right.
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We just continue on.
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I think step work is great for that.
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What about you?
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What about you with the why?
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Yeah, I think it was really important to me.
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Um, I think the why really helped me uncover the avoidant behavior.
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Like I'm just not a confrontational person.
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I don't like hard conversations.
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I mean, anybody that knows me well, like I have a soft demeanor.
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Um, except for Adam, he gets yelled at all the time by me, but it's work-wise.
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Um, but you know, I've just I just want things to be easy.
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I want people to be happy.
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And oftentimes that costs me my own happiness.
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And I think because I avoided those hard conversations, I avoided, you know, sharing my actual feelings for, I mean, I can, we can like if we've got an hour therapy session, I'll untangle it all for you.
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But it's it's very, it's very important to me to have that understanding of why so that I can be more self-aware.
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I can correct those patterns and I can just understand where the work needs to happen.
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And to your point, I just don't think it's like we go through recovery, we go through the 12 steps.
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It's all super helpful and helps us grow.
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But it's not like we're gonna then know what to expect for the rest of life.
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Right.
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What all of that does, it just gives us the tools to navigate what comes next.
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And that's the thing with life.
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We never know what comes next, but if we have the tools, resources, and support to navigate it, we're just gonna get through it that much easier.
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Um, so you know, that's that's always my goal in this work.
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Would you say that would you say that it's it's almost um harmful?
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Not harmful, but what do you think of the idea that like someone being almost too self-aware could be a bad thing?
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Like someone who thinks about everything so much, and someone who is super empathetic, someone who I because I kind of feel like that's where a lot of my anxiety comes from and my neuroses is that all of my senses I feel like in recovery are just dialed up a lot, and I can't shut it off.
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I can't I can't relax.
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I don't know if that's a recovery thing or if that is but I but I I I don't know, like it's it's one of those things where like when you see someone walking down the street and they just seem like they don't have a care in the world, I don't know if I can ever get in that headspace ever where I'm just you know what I mean.
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Yeah, I do.
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There's always something going on.
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I think I and there's probably a therapist listening to this that could probably be like, well, this is what this is, but right, right, right.
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I think, yeah, I think that heightened self-awareness, but I also like for me it's definitely a trauma response to be just hyper focused.
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I I mentioned that I was in a very abusive relationship and it was very um uh mentally abusive, and I had a hard time naming it, but that just made me just constantly try to think about how somebody's movements, engagements, things like that.
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So I was constantly like hyper-focused on the room.
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I think a lot of that's just from my own childhood, how I grew up and kind of the stressful environment that I grew up in.
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So definitely for me, it's more of a trauma response.
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Like I'm hyper-aware, hyper-focused, hyper-critical of how I navigate.
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And this is still work that I have to do too.
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This is a lot of work.
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I'm untangling a lot of the harm from the abuse, you know, some childhood stuff.
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And but yeah, it's like you're always turned up and you feel everything that much harder.
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Like I'm very much like you.
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Like I see the guy walking down the street who isn't thinking about the email they just sent.
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Like, did I word that correctly?
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Right.
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You know what I mean?
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What's that response?
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Or somebody's um interaction with me, and I'm still thinking about it three days later of like, man, why did I do that?
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Why did I say that?
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Why did they say that?
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They must hate me.
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Um, so I think for me, it's just in those moments, I usually bring like my partner Dustin in or somebody to kind of help me untangle it.
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I will say that I've had a few moment moments recently where I've been able to navigate it and feel like, hey, that's just what it is.
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And I've been able to do that a little bit more of like, it's not the end of the world.
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If something's not right there, it I'll figure it out, I'll fix it.
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And so I've been able to kind of navigate that a little bit more.
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But it's I think it's just gonna be constant work, especially if we're like really kind of dialed up and just kind of really unpacking it, like how much of this is about me or how much of this is about the other person?
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And like I'm constantly doing that kind of kind of stuff.
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:14.879
But um, let me ask you a question.
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Did you think was your expectation of recovery that it would just be this smooth, straight line that you were just gonna enter recovery, do whatever recovery asks without even really kind of knowing what that works look like, and just think this is just a one-way street here?
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Yeah, so it's interesting.
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I I think my expectations have changed um over the years.
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So I know that, like, you know, for the last two or three years of my 20 years gambling, when I constantly told people I'd be going to GA, I just need this last 500 bucks, I promise I'm going to GA.
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I just need this, and I promise I'm going to GA.
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My expectations at that point were it might help me, but I went once in 2009 and it didn't help me.
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So, but I know that that's what people want me to do.
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And then, you know, I after my first meeting in Austin, Texas, February 8th, 2022, my expectations went through the roof because I just had that moment.
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I had that spiritual awakening night one, and I was like, wow, like these people have 30 years, like this person has 20 years, this person has 10 years, and and I I think I can do this.
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So then my expectations, I don't think I necessarily thought it was gonna be a straight line, but I absolutely thought that like if I quit gambling, everything else is gonna fall into place.
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And I think about six months later, I realized that that is the furthest thing from the truth.
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And I can remember in my Tuesday night meeting, my in-person meeting in Rhode Island, this one guy who had like 20 years in GA and like 30 something years in another fellowship, at the end of every meeting, he would always say, if you keep coming, you follow the program, your life will be better.
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And I used to resent it because I'm like, I'm seven months in, I have not gambled, my life is not better.
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:17.519
Like I it's it's what's that saying?
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Like it's the same, the same thing, like in a different outfit.
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I don't know.
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You do you know that saying?
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I don't know.
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We might cut this, but like it's like like my life felt all of the feelings I was feeling as far as like you know varying levels of like isolation, loneliness, depression, you know, wanting wanting to get everything fixed, wanting to be debt-free, wanting all these instant gratification type things, basically all my character defects.
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They were dialed down from a 10 to like a five, but the end result, I was, you know, I was living in a tiny apartment in Rhode Island.
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I was working in a restaurant that I hated, I was making poor choices uh occasionally, like, and so I was like, when is when is it gonna get better?
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And it wasn't until like I had some conversations with people where they kind of reined me in, was like, this isn't just about gambling.
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Like, this is about so much more than just than not gambling.
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And that's when I I started trying to do the work.
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:31.839
I think it's that understanding that gambling is just the symptom of the issue, right?
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And most of the time the issue's internal.
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It's how we're coping, how we're avoiding, how we're the stress, right?
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Like everything, the grief, whatever it is, it can be gambling, it can be shopping, it can be drinking, drugs, whatever.
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Like that's the symptom of of the internal issue.
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:54.559
Um, I think, you know, very much that way.
00:19:54.720 --> 00:20:00.559
I think too, to tie in with that, I had the expectation that people in the rooms would have all the answers for me.
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Like I would go into the rooms and and have all the answers, and I remember going into my like GA meetings and my life was falling apart.
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And I would just go into these rooms crying.
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:13.279
And of course, I was in a room full of men, and they were just like, oh, okay.
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:15.839
Uh, and I would be in there and I'd be crying and then they're there.
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:16.240
Yeah.
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They'd just be like, they're there.
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And I know I've said this, they're there.
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Let's read the yellow book.
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And I'm like, is the yellow book gonna fix my life?
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What page is that?
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:24.880
What page is that?
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Like, what is it?
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:27.759
Like, is this a step-by-step?
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:33.200
Like, how do you and and really, if you're in that program, it is like a step-by-step kind of process.
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:40.480
But for me, it just like I just thought I would walk into these rooms and everybody would be like, do this, do this, do this.
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:47.119
And I think, you know, the reality of that is everybody's lives are so different.
00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:50.319
Yes, we have this common issue, right?
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And the way that I might interact with a certain program or something is just gonna be different because maybe my needs are different, right?
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Maybe the space is not giving me what I need or whatever.
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:05.519
And so I think for me, it was like that.
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That was the first time that I really learned.
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Like I had this expectation that they all the knowledge was there.
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And there is a truth to that.
00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:17.119
So don't walk away from this thing, Christina says, don't expect anybody to know the answers.
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That's not true.
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:18.240
Right.
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We all have our own experience and we can share that, and that's knowledge.
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:28.240
But I just thought it would be this do this, this, and this, and your life will be perfect.
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And most of the time in the rooms, we're all still trying to figure it out.
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We're all still navigating the next thing.
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:43.039
And that's more than anything, what got me really curious in early recovery is like, okay, well, I like this part of this.
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:44.799
What can I do to add to this?
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.319
Or what can I do that's different but will help me in this way?
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:56.880
And so it's not like I, long story short, it's not like a I walked in the rooms expecting that they were gonna tell me what to do.
00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:06.240
And in reality, it they taught me how to be curious and figure out what I needed that that worked for me.
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:11.680
And that, you know, I absolutely love that about me.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:13.200
That was a piece I needed.
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:13.920
Yeah.
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:24.559
And, you know, to put a positive spin on the expectations uh piece, and you know, because Adam is often the glass half empty guy, uh, unfortunately.
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:38.079
But when I tell you what my expectations were as far as what I thought I was going to walk into in these rooms compared to what it actually is, like my expectations were I'm going to walk into what you see in a casino at 5 a.m.
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:38.400
Right?
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:45.039
Just a bunch of quote unquote degenerates, a bunch of people, a bunch of addicts, right?
00:22:45.519 --> 00:23:13.920
When in reality, and I used to kind of tiptoe around this, but I'm I'm ready to say this now and I I know you won't like me saying this, but like the people in these rooms, not all of them, but the people and it doesn't even mean they need to have a ton of recovery, but if I was making a list of like the top 50 people in my life who I think are like salt of the earth, who I think are people that are just, you know, amazing people living life, the first 30 of them are in these rooms.
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:19.440
Literally the greatest people I know in my life right now, I have met in these rooms.
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:41.440
And if you told me that driving to that meeting in Austin on February 8th, that you're about to walk into this GA, this gambler's anonymous room with a bunch of people that are compulsive gamblers and they're going to be the greatest people that you've ever met in your lives that have the the best heads on their shoulders that have the the most beautiful outlook on life, I'd be like, what?
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:48.640
But that is literally what happened and that is to this day the greatest people I've met in my life are in these rooms.
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:50.640
Why wouldn't I like you saying that?
00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:54.000
That's exactly because we don't like to we're not supposed to compare, right?
00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:56.880
Or we're not supposed to say, but like I don't care.
00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.839
Like my best friends are people in recovery.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:15.359
Like my I've not even I've got some friends that I had before like I always say before and after um before you know but I lost and damaged a lot of relationships and that can be our kind of a next question too is like I damaged a lot of relationships.
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:34.799
But when I entered recovery I had the expectation that these relationships would automatically repair right because I'm I'm trying to help myself and do better and and all these things and I just thought these relationships would I could make my amends and and build rebuild.
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:48.240
And that is a reality right that that's a really normal reality of like we we go through recovery and we work the the steps and we we work and amends um and hopefully rebuild those relationships.
00:24:48.559 --> 00:25:04.880
But what I didn't really expect and this could be good or bad um is that I was doing the work on myself I realized that a lot of those relationships weren't good for me and weren't good for my future self.
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:09.920
And it was kind of hard you know because a lot of them there was a lot of history there.
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:13.279
There was a lot of friendship there.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:32.079
But then there was also you know through the work and I was just like well some of those things are probably what led me into this help not led me not putting anybody else's accountability aside for me but my avoidant personality just didn't match with them.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:37.519
I I had the expectations that I would have the same friends like I would be able to repair rebuild.
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.680
But the reality of it is like I had to let those friendships go.
00:25:42.000 --> 00:26:01.680
100% and and and and and I can I can feel and I like I can feel the people listening right now who because I can remember when I was in active addiction I mean first of all everybody judges I don't care who you are what you say everyone has varying levels of you know judgmental tendencies.
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:32.079
But when you're an active addiction we judge we judge a lot and and we we assume and we for me at least like I was always looking at the negative part of it and you know when I thought about what if you if you asked me like in 2019 like what do you think GA is I'm gonna say all of the stereotypical things about like AA or addiction or and I know right now people listening are thinking that way.
00:26:32.240 --> 00:27:16.319
They're thinking that I'm saying this just to say it to get someone to come into the rooms I I'm looking into the camera I cannot tell you guys enough that the greatest people on earth are in these rooms and and and so for the people that don't want to be known and I get it there's all kinds of reasons why you wouldn't want someone to know that you're in recovery for an addiction but I'm telling you like it's it's in the long run you're gonna be happy and proud like I know to this day if I'm at a family function or if I'm anywhere and I say that I'm in recovery it's probably 50% people think that's awesome and 50% people judge me.
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:28.720
I don't give a shit you know what I mean like and I just oh I I just I I I pray every day that more people will will find that I don't even want to call it like courage.
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:48.160
It's not courage it's it's just about like taking that chance taking those steps not the actual 12 steps I'm saying taking literal steps into some form of recovery and then once you meet people that are walking that same path besides you like it's just it's just it's life changing it's literally life changing.
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:48.880
You know what I mean?
00:27:49.119 --> 00:28:25.440
Yeah like my my best friends are all in recovery like you and Sam and Kitty and Tara and like all these amazing people in my life they're all people in recovery they're all working on themselves that you know there's this emotional intelligence that comes with with recovery too and growth and and all of that and it's it's fantastic and when you can call somebody and you're struggling or in your head about something and you can say hey help me help me ununtangle this a little right um and when they know exactly kind of where it's coming from not like why are you overthinking this bro um stop overthinking it.
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:33.359
You know they're said like oh I get it let's let's kind of let's help determine what belongs to you where's work that you can do what belongs to the other person.
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:43.759
You got to give that back you know and it just it's just a different kind of support and to be surrounded in those rooms and I know that we can go on and on about that.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:56.880
But even like today my birthday I'm I'm going to lunch with women from you know this community that that I've met and befriended and it's just it's just really nice.
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:17.279
So let's answer a few more kind of expectations what is one thing that you would kind of the expectation or something that now you would kind of chuckle at like of like oh man I thought it was going to be this and now I'm just like it's it's so not this that's a good question.
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:37.680
Um you know I gotta say it I think uh the higher power stuff right the God stuff I think you know that was the one the one imperfection in my first three meetings in Austin was I couldn't get on board with the God stuff.
00:29:37.920 --> 00:30:21.920
And uh you know my expectations were that I was gonna spend the rest of my life in this program and that the people the fellowship was going to be my higher power and just like the people in those rooms told me like keep an open mind wait for the miracle it's gonna happen and I said yeah okay like zero expectations that I would ever get to a point where I am now where you know I I have handed over my life to a higher power and once again once again I can hear I can hear Adam of 2019 being like listen to this guy what is this Bible thumping well no that's not what I'm saying.
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:39.519
I'm saying that I understand that I'm a miracle like it is a miracle that I have not gambled in four years five months in five days and it's not just me you know and I believe that my higher power had a lot to do with it.
00:30:39.680 --> 00:31:28.799
And uh so yeah I think um I I I I do not think talk about expectations I thought there was zero chance that I would be saying these words ever again in my life yeah I think for me and I don't know if this is the question I'm really asking really aligns with either of these but these answers but for me it was always like all the sayings people would say to me when I come into recovery and I would just be like um like one day at a time and if nothing changes nothing changes and all of these things and I'm just like whatever like one day at a time like what does that even freaking mean right and here I am and I don't have my exact days because I never look at my exact days except I did the other day and this time next month I will be 2000 days since I placed a bet.
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:44.400
Wow um so which is just amazing but you know over five five years five and a half years since I I started hearing these things of like one day at a time and now I'm just like I get it.
00:31:44.799 --> 00:32:07.279
I absolutely get it because it's like if we really do live like if one the nothing changes nothing changes like that can't be more true if we don't change if we don't change our behaviors the way we're even accessing money how we how we navigate life's challenges like nothing's gonna change.
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:28.240
Yeah and you know the one day at a time like for me there were times where it was one minute at a time one hour at a time one day at a time and now it just like it seemed like so big in the beginning of like what does that even mean and now I'm just like I truly get up and I just live for today.
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:28.960
Yeah.
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:30.480
What do I got in front of me?
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:41.200
What can I like even if it's problem solving or you know spending time with family like whatever that looks like for that day it's literally just I'm living for today.
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:42.799
I'm not gonna gamble today.
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:47.039
I'm not gonna lean into behaviors that aren't helpful to me.
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:54.480
I'm going to try and just navigate this day ahead in in the healthiest best way possible.
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:56.079
And yeah.
00:32:56.400 --> 00:33:10.480
No and I and and I I think what's so important about your point that you just made is that and I hope for everyone who's early in recovery is listening to this that does not just happen.
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:26.799
You that state of mind and that way of thinking about life that happens through work right like that happens through repetition that happens through coming up with good habits and and sticking with them.
00:33:26.960 --> 00:34:19.199
That happens with aligning yourself with a sponsor or a mentor or a coach or a clinician and and and and walking that path with them because that was one of my expectations too especially when I was just reading the yellow book every day like I thought that going to a GA meeting and truly taking it in truly loving it finding my higher power that's all I needed no you need to take that information and then apply it to your life because life like you said life is gonna life life is there's there's gonna be things thrown at you with challenges but at the end of the day I do believe that not even just GA but all the different forms of recovery I hate the word blueprint because then that makes people think like I just need to follow the blueprint I'll be fine.
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:21.519
But that's what it is it is a guide.
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:50.480
It is a guide that no matter what's happening in your life you can always come back to that center understand you have this guide and it ain't going to be perfect but it is really I mean you have a leg up on everybody else who's just trying to flail through life on their own experiences and their own ego and their own self-confidence like we have we have a guide in recovery.
00:34:50.800 --> 00:35:10.719
Absolutely and I think too just to kind of close this episode out I don't know that we I mean I think we had a lot of conversation in there um but just to kind of close this out I think the expectation that recovery is going to give you your old life back and really kind of focusing on the reality of it is you're gonna build an entirely new one.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:39.920
Yeah who wants that old life I don't and and that's you know I always like there people are like oh I just want my old life back and I'm like well the old life though wasn't serving you which is why this you know gambling happened or whatever happened and like yeah there's pieces of it that we're always gonna incorporate in us but it really is about rebuilding and and having the expectations of like here's the here's the expectations that recovery is going to fix everything.
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:46.239
There is truth to that like working recovery is going to fix so much.
00:35:46.320 --> 00:36:05.039
It's gonna rebuild so much it's going to give you new tools but the reality is you're gonna have really hard days you're gonna have to do a lot of hard work and it's just not going to happen because you just stopped the gambling right it's it's gonna happen by those changes that need to happen.
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:06.960
It's gonna happen by showing up for yourself.
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:08.719
It's going to happen by showing up for others.
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:14.719
It's gonna happen by all these different things and you know that's the true reality.
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:29.119
So if I could leave you guys with this episode with a question, maybe a prompt or something it's if you could sit down with yourself on day one, what expectation would you ask yourself to let go of and what would you replace it with?
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:36.400
And you know be truthful be honest and kind of ask yourself well this is my expectation but what is the truth of it?
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:38.559
And kind of navigate it.
00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:43.760
Recovery is the best thing that ever happened to me but it's also the hardest thing that ever happened to me.
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:47.679
And one of my favorite recover recovery quotes is choose your heart.
00:36:48.159 --> 00:37:08.719
And that is so true because the heart of addiction right your gambling or whatever it is that you're working with um you know that might make you feel better temporarily but then you have all the chaos and the mess outside of it and it's not going to get any easier right when we're in addiction.
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:10.239
It's just not it's gonna get worse.
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:43.039
It's gonna things are going to get harder all of that then you have the heart of recovery it's hard work hard conversations lots of time invested hard boundaries you know all those things but over time your life continues to improve and there's no there's no time scale I mean it could be six months it could be a year it could be like me five years and and be like man I'm so glad to be here today um you know but there were probably times in that first second year that I was like why is this so hard?
00:37:43.119 --> 00:40:15.199
Even my third year I remember my third year felt like the hardest to be honest um you know so that's my and I also and I also think too not to keep I don't know how I don't know what got into me today with all these positive spin zones I'm I'm throwing out there but it's not like you you know but you know like the expectations of what your life could be in recovery whatever you think initially it could be ten times better than that it it could you you have no idea what you're capable of when you let go of this addiction you know and I and I think not to not to uh you know dangle the carrot or not to like you know make that person think like okay well yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna take over the world that no no no I'm not saying that but what I'm saying is is that in the early stages of recovery our expectations are like I just want to stop gambling I just want to be normal or I just want to you know I just I just want to be able to enjoy my grandkids and be present and okay yeah that's those are all doable but as you keep going and as you keep pushing and as you keep connecting and and and letting yourself you know letting your letting your talents show letting letting your personality show the possibilities are endless you you get whatever you want and then you get this confidence that I can do that I can do this you know I could go back to school I could I could change careers I could it all is a product of good recovery and good connection absolutely you know and and so yeah don't don't think that like I just want to stop gambling and uh you know enjoy enjoy my life keep uh you know like just keep keep thinking like you could do anything you want literally anything you want you know and that's and I have to tell myself that I still you know I still have my moments but man you and I are the product of this you and I are the product of this right before before we entered recovery my life was in a box and it was I was sleep gamble work sleep gamble work and even if you took the gambling out of it I just thought I'm gonna go work in this office for somebody else and just and and that's that's a good life I don't want to this conversation to go away from this but my expectation was that I would just continue the job that I had and you know rebuild.
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:34.320
But the reality of it for me was it it gave me a purpose and a passion and it gave me the ability to work in this space and really have an impact and I never foresaw that coming.
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:42.400
So it's like for me I and either way works right like really we just want to go back to normal way of living.
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:59.760
It could be new versions or or whatever but for me it just you know the expectation versus reality was just it blew the top off of that box and gave me an opportunity I I can't even sometimes comprehend.
00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:15.840
So yeah no I love it and and you know I think you know in closing you know the the only way to figure it out or the only way to you know because we always oh this might happen or this will happen or you know okay if I do this I could be out of debt next month years.
00:41:16.079 --> 00:43:05.440
Mm mm mm mm and you can always tell the people right the people that are in recovery that still talk like that they just haven't they haven't gotten it yet right like they haven't had that moment they haven't had that it and it comes in a variety of ways it could be a conversation you have with someone it could be a meeting it could be you know just a part of the literature um but once you once you once you get out of that looking 20 steps down the road and you start living like you said just living for today things truly do start happening like you said the cliches that we hear in the program forget it I just feel like the cliches in life you realize in recovery are all true right like time flies uh like basically any cliche you ever heard growing up treat people the way you want to be treated I mean Jesus Christ if if if we could all just think about that every day I mean how better would this world be you know but anyways we're we're I'm I'm going on a tangent but I just want to say happy birthday again um you know we're going to Nashville in like two weeks next week not even two weeks next week that's crazy it's literally eight days from now we'll be in Nashville wow yeah that's wild that's gonna be fun we'll get to spend a whole week together because then we're going to Baton Rouge yes yeah so if if yeah if you're gonna be at NCPG obviously come see us we're gonna be in in Nashville and then what's the thing that we're going to in Baton Rouge it's like it's in it's a Lsact yeah something like that but it's a it's an amazing it's like the biggest substance abuse conference in the state of Louisiana we're gonna be down there with our with our friends from MHSD shout out to Megan um but yeah come check come see us there we would love to connect all right another episode love it thanks everyone all right take care
