Why Traditional Addiction Treatment Fails 95% of People (And What Actually Works) | Hamilton Baden

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My level of dopamine in my brain, my steady state is a nine.
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When I have a drink, my nine goes to 24.
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The feeling that I get from alcohol, you will never experience.
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The problem is, is because it affected me so much, you can't drink like a normal person.
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I would go to work every single day like a normal person.
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I'd come home and I'd start drinking.
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And to be quite honest, it was destroying my marriage.
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My guest today ran sales for one of the largest specialty pharmacies in the entire country.
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He was successful, respected, winning by every measure of the word.
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And the entire time, behind the scenes, he was losing his battle with alcohol.
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Hamilton Baden has called the day he finally went into treatment both the best and the worst day of his entire life.
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Today, he runs a company built around one simple, uncomfortable truth.
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The way this country handles addiction and mental health reaches only about 1 in 10 people who need help.
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95% of people that struggle will never raise their hand, ask for help, and enter clinical treatment.
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This conversation is about the other nine.
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Why they never get treatment.
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Why the system waits for people to fall apart.
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And why the solution may be far simpler than we've been led to believe.
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The system's not failing because people can't recover.
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It's failing because most people never get the chance.
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Hamilton.
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Yes, sir.
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You have said, or at least I've read, that the day you went into treatment was both the best and the worst day of your entire life.
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Why?
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Wow.
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That's a great way to start.
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So it was the worst day of my life from the standpoint is my life had fallen apart at that point.
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So if you go, let's kind of look at this two ways.
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It was the best day of my life today because of where I was to where I am today.
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But it was the worst day of my life because, I mean, I'll just tell you the story.
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I had struggled with drinking for years and years and years.
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And we'll get into this.
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was to save my marriage.
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So I was a guy that drank not like a normal person.
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I drank every night when I'd come home from work.
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I would go to work every single day like a normal person.
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I'd come home and I'd start drinking.
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And to be quite honest, it was destroying my marriage.
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My wife loved when I drank, but she wanted me to drink like her, which is a normal person.
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She would have a glass of wine and she may drink half of it, and then she's on with her life.
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I would drink a half a glass of wine and I would have 17 more half a glasses of wine.
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So basically what happened was they were episode after episode.
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I never cheated on my wife.
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I never beat my wife.
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But if you've ever known someone that has struggled with this, it is very crippling to be married or in a relationship with somebody.
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It's just hard because you have these waves up and down and up and down.
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What happened was my next door neighbor, who's one of the leading dermatologists in Arizona and a great businessman, he had invited me and another friend.
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We went to Flagstaff to play golf, drank the entire time we were there.
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I passed out in the car on the way home.
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My wife was trying to get a hold of me, couldn't get a hold of me.
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I got home.
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We got in an argument about it.
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We went out to dinner that night with friends.
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I kept drinking.
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So I woke up the next morning with the worst hangover I've ever had in my life, and she looked at me and said, I'm done.
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THE END OF THE END OF THE
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And I had heard this before, but I knew this time it was a very, very different story.
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And I knew she was serious.
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And I go, fuck.
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How did you know this time?
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I could see it in her eyes.
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I just, I mean, you just, when your wife tells you something, you know when it's this time, it's real.
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When it's the last time.
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I just knew.
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And so I went over to my buddy's house.
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I came home.
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I made a phone call.
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And I said, I got to figure this out.
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And we can get into the details.
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But I got on a plane the next night and I flew to North Carolina and went to treatment.
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I walked into treatment.
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I had one last conversation with my wife before I walked in, and I did not know if this would save my marriage or not, but I went anywhere.
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And so from that perspective, it was the worst fucking day of my life.
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It was the hardest day of my life.
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It was the most terrifying day of my life.
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Um, so I, my last drink was on a Sunday.
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This was now, so Monday I dealt with everything.
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Tuesday I got on a red eye.
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So it was Wednesday morning.
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So I had started to sober up and I walked in and sat in the admissions chair and was like, oh my God, what the fuck did I just do?
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So from that perspective, it was the hardest thing I've ever dealt with.
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It was the worst day of my life.
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You talked to me about that.
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Talk to me about you, you.
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asked yourself, what the fuck did I just do?
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How did you reconcile that?
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How did you answer yourself?
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Well, I had gotten so many people involved now.
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I called my job and I was the chief growth officer of a company based here in Arizona that was a national specialty pharmacy.
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So I told them.
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So now the cat's out of the bag.
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I can't go back on that.
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I told my parents.
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My parents actually met me at the airport.
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I'm from Greenville, South Carolina.
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So they met me at the airport.
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My sister drove me to treatment.
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So there was kind of no getting out of it at that point.
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I had the cats out of the bag.
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I've admitted I have a problem.
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I'm there.
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And I'm one of those guys.
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Once I make a commitment, I'm going to fucking do it.
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I went to the Citadel in Charleston, South Carolina, which is a military school.
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And there was no I mean, a lot of people leave the Citadel.
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There was no fucking way I was leaving that school.
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So I made it through.
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And it was the same thing.
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So I'm there.
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I knew I was there.
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I knew there was no getting out of it.
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So I just went with it.
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But it was bad, dude.
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It was extremely stressful.
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Talk to me a little bit about that mindset that, what is it, a will to win, a resilience?
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What is that mindset of refusing to quit and where does that come from?
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Because I think, if I'm not mistaken, a lot of my listeners probably have the same one.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, you know, that's a great question.
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And I don't really know.
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I mean, maybe it was genetic.
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Having a two-star general for a dad probably doesn't hurt.
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But I just had this competitive drive.
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I mean, when I came out, this is a funny story.
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When I came out a week later, my mom took me back to the pediatrician and said, something is wrong with my kid.
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Like the normal feedings aren't working.
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He's all over, like something's going on.
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Do you know what kinesiology is?
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The study of body movement or something?
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They did some stupid kinesiology test on me, and they looked at my mom and said, you're going to have a very aggressive son.
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So I just had this burst of energy that I didn't know what to do with.
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And that's why I was diagnosed with ADD when I was in fourth grade.
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By the way, I didn't have ADD.
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No.
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No.
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Do you think this had any contributed at all to...
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your substance abuse, the alcohol abuse?
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A million percent.
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Yeah.
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Without question.
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Help me understand that.
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Was it a subdue?
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Was it like an unwind?
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Was it an escape?
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Here's the best way I can explain it to you.
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When I have a drink, the best way I can explain it, we can get into this.
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I can explain to you the neurobiology of addiction.
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It's fascinating.
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I was born an addict.
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I was born an addict.
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Plain and simple, meaning, and if you understand the neurobiology of addiction, you understand what I say.
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I was born an addict.
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And what that means is, is that my nervous system was designed or came out in such a way that it was always firing.
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And what alcohol would do to me was a collective sigh of relief.
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So my brain is always going constantly.
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alcohol would pause that and let me breathe.
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It was the greatest drug I've ever, like I've taken a lot of drugs.
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It was the greatest drug I've ever taken in my life.
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And if I could have drank like a normal person, I think it would be the most phenomenal drug in the world.
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The problem is, is because it affected me so much, you can't drink like a normal person.
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And when we talk about the neurobiology of addiction, that'll make sense.
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You see what I'm saying?
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But yes, the drugs and the alcohol absolutely made me feel...
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Normal, for lack of a better word.
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Okay.
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What other drugs?
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I mean, dude, I've done everything, but alcohol was my thing.
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I did a lot of ecstasy when I lived in Philadelphia.
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We would always say, we're not going to do it this weekend, and we would do it.
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I didn't do a lot of coke because—well, you're probably younger than me.
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Len Bias was a famous basketball player, played for Maryland.
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He was a stud.
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He dropped dead the first time he ever did coke, supposedly.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so with my energy, I thought that if I did coke, I did it a couple of times, nothing big.
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I smoked weed, but alcohol was 100 percent.
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Nothing ever stuck for me other than alcohol.
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That was the thing.
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Yeah.
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And there were opioids as well.
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And I'll get to that later in my story.
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But opioids became a big part of my life for a period of time.
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But alcohol, if you had to label it, I was an alcoholic.
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Got it.
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Okay, so one more thing about the day that you—no, not the day that you went in, the decision to go in.
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Obviously, you had said that it was because of your wife, right, and your marriage.
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You wanted your marriage to succeed.
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Right.
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I imagine there's an ebb and a flow through this, just like that conversation you had with yourself when you were sitting in admissions throughout the whole process.
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You should.
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You shouldn't.
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Yes, do it.
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No, don't.
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When did that stop?
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When did the ebb and flow about should I go or not go?
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When did the internal dialogue, that monologue in your head, when did that stop and when did you –
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surrender to the voice that said, this is a good thing?
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Yeah, that's a great question.
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So the voice in my head that contemplated this, I think we have to go back.
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That probably started when I was 20 years of age.
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Like I knew I had a problem.
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Oh, wow.
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How old were you?
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42.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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Oh, 22 years.
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I knew.
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So I didn't drink much in high school at all.
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I was kind of a goody two shoes.
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I was a really smart kid, had a full academic scholarship to the Citadel.
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But then when I got to the Citadel and I don't know how much you know about the Citadel's military school.
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So you're there, you're locked up, no alcohol, no nothing, no women.
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And then they let you out on Friday night for five hours.
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I mean, what do you think you do?
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You hump the wall and you drink as much as you can.
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That's where alcohol became a big part of my life.
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And so I knew I had a problem without question.
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And I contemplated.
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I went to a meeting sometimes and I'm like, these people are idiots.
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I don't belong here.
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I could never identify as an alcoholic.
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It was that moment that made me say.
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I don't have any other option now.
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If I want to save my marriage, this is a requirement.
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I have to do this.
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Now, the interesting thing is, I didn't know when I actually went in if I would save my marriage.
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My wife was really done.
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Now, my wife and I made it, and it's a long story.
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But the day that I went to treatment, she was not committing to me that I will be there when you get back and we will be married.
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Which made it a million times harder.
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I was going to say, because now you're now you're you're going through this process of sobering and you're wrestling with the unknown of whether or not your wife's going to be waiting for you when you're done.
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And then it gets worse.
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So you have a blackout period when you go to treatment.
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So when you go to treatment, they take out everything away from you.
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Your perfume, your cologne.
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They take it because you'll drink it.
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Some people will drink it.
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Hand sanitizer, everything.
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Your phone.
241
00:11:49.292 --> 00:11:49.872
You have nothing.
242
00:11:50.552 --> 00:11:54.256
And you can't talk to any family member for two weeks.
243
00:11:54.296 --> 00:11:55.598
I think it's two weeks or 10 days.
244
00:11:56.339 --> 00:11:57.560
So I go through that.
245
00:11:57.720 --> 00:11:58.781
I start to sober up.
246
00:11:58.861 --> 00:11:59.863
I start learning.
247
00:12:00.023 --> 00:12:03.727
And then I have my first call with my wife, and it did not go well.
248
00:12:04.047 --> 00:12:05.329
I didn't get what I wanted.
249
00:12:06.170 --> 00:12:08.092
And now I'm like, oh, fuck.
250
00:12:08.252 --> 00:12:08.913
What did you get?
251
00:12:10.314 --> 00:12:10.775
I got...
252
00:12:12.287 --> 00:12:18.549
Basically, I'm happy without you here, and I'm going to do things that are important to me.
253
00:12:19.209 --> 00:12:24.311
And basically, I'm probably not going to be a part of this going forward.
254
00:12:24.811 --> 00:12:29.873
So the interesting thing is I got through that that night when you're all by yourself in your room.
255
00:12:29.913 --> 00:12:30.653
You have a roommate.
256
00:12:30.733 --> 00:12:35.615
I had a roommate, but obviously he was in the other bed, and I'm sitting there, and I'm all alone in my thoughts.
257
00:12:35.775 --> 00:12:39.276
And I got up and walked up to the nurse's station, and I said, I can't do this.
258
00:12:39.376 --> 00:12:40.436
I got to get the fuck out of here.
259
00:12:40.496 --> 00:12:41.297
And it's voluntary.
260
00:12:41.317 --> 00:12:41.877
You can leave.
261
00:12:41.897 --> 00:12:42.157
Mm-hmm.
262
00:12:43.457 --> 00:12:45.038
And this lady must have been an angel.
263
00:12:45.098 --> 00:12:46.518
So she talked me out of it.
264
00:12:46.578 --> 00:12:51.860
But this is, and we're gonna get to this, I'm sure, this is where it's really fascinating.
265
00:12:51.900 --> 00:12:53.600
And I shit you not this happened.
266
00:12:53.620 --> 00:12:57.521
The next day, my counselor, his name was Sam, and he was this gruff Harley rider.
267
00:12:57.561 --> 00:13:01.662
And he'd get over the loudspeaker and he'd be like, Hamilton, see Sam.
268
00:13:01.922 --> 00:13:02.842
And I'd go to see him.
269
00:13:03.423 --> 00:13:04.603
And he looked at me in the eyes.
270
00:13:05.143 --> 00:13:06.264
And I told him what happened.
271
00:13:06.444 --> 00:13:10.186
And he goes, if you don't think you're an alcoholic, he goes, you're a fucking pussy.
272
00:13:10.326 --> 00:13:13.308
He goes, get the fuck up and walk out of here and go save your marriage.
273
00:13:13.368 --> 00:13:14.709
And he goes, you'll be back in a year.
274
00:13:15.369 --> 00:13:16.490
That was his message to me.
275
00:13:17.230 --> 00:13:20.493
Now, for most people, they would have probably gotten up and walked out.
276
00:13:20.553 --> 00:13:22.154
For me, that flipped a switch.
277
00:13:22.194 --> 00:13:23.174
And I was like, fuck you.
278
00:13:23.214 --> 00:13:24.215
Watch this, asshole.
279
00:13:24.475 --> 00:13:26.076
Because if you're it pissed me off.
280
00:13:26.196 --> 00:13:26.436
Yeah.
281
00:13:26.516 --> 00:13:28.657
And that's part of your, your wiring.
282
00:13:28.717 --> 00:13:37.382
And maybe he was a genius for saying that maybe he doesn't say that to other people, but it forced me to actually suck it up and say, all right, dude, watch this.
283
00:13:37.582 --> 00:13:38.282
And I stayed.
284
00:13:38.482 --> 00:13:39.883
And then that's where the magic happened.
285
00:13:40.863 --> 00:13:43.565
Talk to the audience now for, for a second.
286
00:13:43.625 --> 00:13:46.566
I'm curious, most curious about this.
287
00:13:48.067 --> 00:13:54.290
What does it look like just before you would consider it a problem?
288
00:13:56.396 --> 00:14:05.525
Because I imagine as you approach the line, here's the line that you consider it a problem.
289
00:14:06.086 --> 00:14:10.791
As you approach that line, that line probably moves a little bit with that approach.
290
00:14:12.444 --> 00:14:17.146
Yeah, that's a really—dude, you asked really fucking good questions.
291
00:14:17.266 --> 00:14:20.747
It's a hard question, too, because the line always moves.
292
00:14:20.847 --> 00:14:22.027
Yeah.
293
00:14:22.288 --> 00:14:24.948
And I don't—you know, I joke about this a lot.
294
00:14:25.429 --> 00:14:27.349
What is an alcoholic, okay?
295
00:14:27.749 --> 00:14:28.850
Or what is an addict?
296
00:14:29.525 --> 00:14:32.607
Well, you know, I'm sure there's clinical definitions.
297
00:14:32.667 --> 00:14:35.428
If you drink this many drinks a night or if you do this or that.
298
00:14:35.468 --> 00:14:38.830
But this is where this is where it's pretty easy for me.
299
00:14:39.491 --> 00:14:49.717
When your life becomes unmanageable or is controlled by that addiction, that's where the line is drawn.
300
00:14:50.197 --> 00:14:52.059
controlled by that addiction.
301
00:14:52.079 --> 00:14:53.080
So let me give you an example.
302
00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:55.742
Everything in my life revolved around alcohol.
303
00:14:55.822 --> 00:14:58.264
I went to work every single day like a normal person.
304
00:14:58.405 --> 00:15:02.849
I grew a company from $25 million to $1.65 billion.
305
00:15:02.969 --> 00:15:04.030
I was a great employee.
306
00:15:04.090 --> 00:15:05.071
I was the life of the party.
307
00:15:05.191 --> 00:15:06.272
I wasn't a mean drunk.
308
00:15:06.632 --> 00:15:08.354
When I came home, I started drinking.
309
00:15:08.494 --> 00:15:10.355
But everything revolved around that.
310
00:15:10.496 --> 00:15:13.118
If we went to a sporting event, well, dude, you have to drink.
311
00:15:13.418 --> 00:15:14.019
I couldn't imagine.
312
00:15:14.079 --> 00:15:14.740
Like, you drink.
313
00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:15.180
Yeah.
314
00:15:15.300 --> 00:15:18.564
When you play golf, I never played golf without drinking, ever.
315
00:15:18.944 --> 00:15:20.346
And I played golf three times a week.
316
00:15:20.906 --> 00:15:23.589
If you're pissed off, you got to have a drink because you're pissed off.
317
00:15:23.629 --> 00:15:24.851
If you're happy, you got to celebrate.
318
00:15:24.871 --> 00:15:25.612
You got to have a drink.
319
00:15:26.032 --> 00:15:29.356
The restaurants I went to were determined by what kind of alcohol.
320
00:15:29.376 --> 00:15:30.477
I used to love Fleming's.
321
00:15:31.398 --> 00:15:35.722
I actually don't think Fleming's is that good of a restaurant, but they had phenomenal fucking dirty martinis.
322
00:15:35.862 --> 00:15:39.286
I had a sushi bar that we went to since I've been sober.
323
00:15:39.326 --> 00:15:41.368
I think I've been there twice in 14 years.
324
00:15:41.548 --> 00:15:46.893
I went there once a week because when I walked in, they put down my drink and they put down a glass of wine for my wife.
325
00:15:46.953 --> 00:15:47.634
So everything.
326
00:15:47.934 --> 00:15:51.858
I went to a carnival for my kids and put wine in sippy cups.
327
00:15:52.955 --> 00:15:55.375
so that no one would know, but I would have the wine there.
328
00:15:55.415 --> 00:16:01.557
If I went to your house for a party and I looked around and there wasn't enough alcohol, I'd leave and go get more and bring it back.
329
00:16:02.117 --> 00:16:06.878
So everything revolved around that, and that's where it becomes unmanageable.
330
00:16:07.318 --> 00:16:07.838
I see.
331
00:16:08.038 --> 00:16:14.899
If I took something away from you and it stressed you out to the point of really bad distress, that's where it becomes a problem.
332
00:16:15.199 --> 00:16:15.519
Okay.
333
00:16:16.299 --> 00:16:16.959
In my opinion.
334
00:16:18.040 --> 00:16:19.720
That brings up a point that...
335
00:16:20.683 --> 00:16:25.766
I don't know if I'm right, but I want to, I want to present it to you and see what you think.
336
00:16:28.047 --> 00:16:36.591
I would imagine that the most dangerous place that an addict can be is successful.
337
00:16:39.052 --> 00:16:43.775
Because when you're successful, everybody thinks you're fine.
338
00:16:45.936 --> 00:16:47.077
What am I getting wrong about that?
339
00:16:47.737 --> 00:16:49.379
I don't think you're getting anything wrong about it.
340
00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:59.106
I mean, people would argue with you and say, well, if I'm homeless on the streets of San Francisco and the Tenderloin District and there's heroin everywhere, that's probably as dangerous.
341
00:16:59.246 --> 00:17:00.967
But I understand your concept.
342
00:17:01.688 --> 00:17:03.609
Yeah, it's hard because no one sees it.
343
00:17:03.990 --> 00:17:05.811
And and then you believe them.
344
00:17:05.871 --> 00:17:07.432
Like, I'll be very blunt with you.
345
00:17:07.452 --> 00:17:10.795
When I went to treatment, I told one of my best friends I was going to treatment.
346
00:17:10.815 --> 00:17:12.216
He says, why the fuck are you going to treatment, dude?
347
00:17:12.236 --> 00:17:13.137
You're not an alcoholic.
348
00:17:13.717 --> 00:17:15.278
I mean, it happened all the time.
349
00:17:15.318 --> 00:17:15.578
Really?
350
00:17:15.998 --> 00:17:16.339
Oh, yeah.
351
00:17:16.439 --> 00:17:19.160
I called the president of my company to tell him I was leaving.
352
00:17:19.340 --> 00:17:20.221
And he goes, what for?
353
00:17:20.341 --> 00:17:20.901
ADD?
354
00:17:21.642 --> 00:17:22.842
I go, no, dumbass.
355
00:17:23.002 --> 00:17:24.103
I've got a drinking problem.
356
00:17:24.143 --> 00:17:25.744
And he goes, but I drink like you.
357
00:17:26.364 --> 00:17:27.205
Like everyone.
358
00:17:27.565 --> 00:17:32.588
There were many people that said I was not I was not the vision of what.
359
00:17:32.628 --> 00:17:35.249
Well, what is the vision of what alcoholism is?
360
00:17:35.269 --> 00:17:41.173
A lot of people think addiction is the guy on the street in the Tenderloin district, you know, shooting heroin and beating their wife.
361
00:17:41.473 --> 00:17:41.653
Yeah.
362
00:17:41.953 --> 00:17:42.994
And there was none of that.
363
00:17:43.074 --> 00:17:44.235
I never touched my wife.
364
00:17:44.395 --> 00:17:46.156
I was a great husband.
365
00:17:46.176 --> 00:17:47.237
At least I thought I was.
366
00:17:47.297 --> 00:17:48.238
I was a great father.
367
00:17:48.278 --> 00:17:49.359
At least I thought I was.
368
00:17:49.979 --> 00:17:52.501
Outwardly, I look like there was zero issues.
369
00:17:52.641 --> 00:17:59.707
So, yes, from your standpoint, from looking at it from that lens, 100%, it's a very hard place to be in.
370
00:18:00.107 --> 00:18:00.388
Okay.
371
00:18:01.123 --> 00:18:04.364
It's much easier if your entire family gets you in a room.
372
00:18:05.204 --> 00:18:06.545
We always make a joke.
373
00:18:06.725 --> 00:18:14.447
If you walk into a room and your entire family is sitting there and there's one person that you've never met before, that is not grandma's fucking birthday party.
374
00:18:14.467 --> 00:18:15.787
That is a fucking intervention.
375
00:18:16.208 --> 00:18:19.949
And look, in some ways, it's much easier than that.
376
00:18:20.369 --> 00:18:21.809
It's much easier that way, right?
377
00:18:21.929 --> 00:18:27.211
Because now everyone in your life is telling you, dude, this has become an issue.
378
00:18:27.251 --> 00:18:29.752
It's much harder for you to make that determination on your own.
379
00:18:30.072 --> 00:18:30.332
Yeah.
380
00:18:31.403 --> 00:18:31.623
Okay.
381
00:18:32.584 --> 00:18:34.346
So now you're in treatment.
382
00:18:34.526 --> 00:18:35.407
You're in rehab.
383
00:18:37.189 --> 00:18:39.512
When does it start to get better?
384
00:18:41.093 --> 00:18:41.794
The second day.
385
00:18:42.275 --> 00:18:43.096
The second day.
386
00:18:43.516 --> 00:18:46.079
Well, it starts to get better because I had...
387
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:49.583
So there's something that happens to a lot of people like me.
388
00:18:49.603 --> 00:18:51.825
If you go through the 12-step program, you get sober.
389
00:18:51.845 --> 00:18:53.507
They call it having a moment of clarity.
390
00:18:54.948 --> 00:18:55.789
And we'll get into this.
391
00:18:56.389 --> 00:19:03.916
The problem that I have with the traditional way we approach addiction is they want you to be willing and they want you to have a moment of clarity.
392
00:19:05.293 --> 00:19:12.758
And I get that, but it's very hard to have a moment of clarity when you're struggling with the disease that causes you to think irrationally.
393
00:19:12.798 --> 00:19:14.360
Like, how are you going to have a moment of clarity?
394
00:19:14.980 --> 00:19:19.463
What happened for me is we were in treatment and every night you have groups.
395
00:19:19.503 --> 00:19:20.144
So you sit down.
396
00:19:20.184 --> 00:19:21.965
It's like a 12-step meeting.
397
00:19:22.005 --> 00:19:25.288
It's an AA meeting, NA meeting, whatever it is, all wrapped in one.
398
00:19:26.028 --> 00:19:31.775
And there's a big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, and we're reading and you share and you go, I'm Hamilton, I'm an alcoholic.
399
00:19:31.795 --> 00:19:37.302
You have to say you're an alcoholic, which always used to piss me off because I didn't know if I was an alcoholic, but that's what AA is.
400
00:19:38.489 --> 00:19:40.570
And so I said, hey, I'm Hamilton.
401
00:19:40.590 --> 00:19:41.290
I'm an alcoholic.
402
00:19:41.330 --> 00:19:51.193
I said, look, guys, I said, the challenge that I have is if I went to a bar right now and somebody opened a bottle of wine, I think I could have two drinks and I could probably stop in that moment in time.
403
00:19:51.233 --> 00:19:52.334
And I was serious about that.
404
00:19:52.354 --> 00:19:54.034
And I really probably felt like I could.
405
00:19:54.774 --> 00:19:56.215
And I talked for a minute and I shut up.
406
00:19:56.295 --> 00:19:59.656
The next guy looked at me and he shared and he goes, my name's whatever.
407
00:19:59.676 --> 00:20:00.356
I'm an alcoholic.
408
00:20:00.376 --> 00:20:02.177
And he goes, Hamilton, I agree with you.
409
00:20:02.237 --> 00:20:04.798
The only difference with me, he was talking about himself.
410
00:20:04.818 --> 00:20:04.898
And.
411
00:20:05.778 --> 00:20:10.780
is that even though I could stop at two drinks, I would want to drink the whole fucking bar.
412
00:20:11.520 --> 00:20:14.021
And I don't know how to explain it to you, Josh.
413
00:20:14.201 --> 00:20:20.804
It was like a bolt of lightning hit me in the head, and I literally opened my book and I wrote down, I'm an alcoholic.
414
00:20:20.844 --> 00:20:30.047
For the first time, I admitted it because it, and this was the clarity moment for me, I realized for the first time that I did not drink like a normal person.
415
00:20:30.747 --> 00:20:32.568
I thought everyone drank the way I drank.
416
00:20:33.328 --> 00:20:35.669
And that was the moment everything clicked for me.
417
00:20:35.830 --> 00:20:41.993
And it was like, well, if you don't drink like a normal person and this is not normal, why the fuck are you doing it?
418
00:20:42.093 --> 00:20:44.615
And that started the journey to sobriety for me.
419
00:20:44.635 --> 00:20:45.896
It didn't cure everything.
420
00:20:46.336 --> 00:20:50.378
I still said to myself, or maybe when I'm 70, I'll drink again, this and that.
421
00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:52.520
But that was the moment it clicked.
422
00:20:52.780 --> 00:20:54.441
And that started the change for me.
423
00:20:54.821 --> 00:20:55.181
Wow.
424
00:20:55.762 --> 00:21:00.664
Would you say... No, I'm going to save that question for when we get into the science behind it.
425
00:21:00.765 --> 00:21:00.865
Okay.
426
00:21:00.885 --> 00:21:00.985
Yeah.
427
00:21:02.003 --> 00:21:04.784
So I want to give a personal example of mine.
428
00:21:04.824 --> 00:21:13.186
So for your perspective, I haven't drank alcohol in eight months, something like that.
429
00:21:13.986 --> 00:21:17.187
And here's where I never considered myself to have a problem.
430
00:21:17.587 --> 00:21:22.488
I'd be the guy that I'd come home, I'd have a glass of wine, a beer, or a glass of scotch.
431
00:21:23.248 --> 00:21:24.350
Never too much.
432
00:21:24.390 --> 00:21:25.872
Not when I was younger, maybe.
433
00:21:26.272 --> 00:21:31.900
But here's where like I needed to test myself is that it was every day.
434
00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:33.402
Yep.
435
00:21:33.422 --> 00:21:35.324
For 15 years.
436
00:21:35.344 --> 00:21:35.725
Okay.
437
00:21:36.306 --> 00:21:36.786
Every day.
438
00:21:37.809 --> 00:21:43.132
I'd have to find one if I was traveling or something, and I used it as a way to unwind.
439
00:21:43.793 --> 00:21:48.396
But there was a point where I was like, I don't think that I have it.
440
00:21:48.416 --> 00:21:50.557
And this is why I asked the question before that line moves, right?
441
00:21:51.257 --> 00:21:52.538
I don't think that I have a problem.
442
00:21:52.558 --> 00:21:56.200
I wouldn't classify myself as having a problem, but I need to test myself.
443
00:21:56.260 --> 00:21:56.461
Right.
444
00:21:57.181 --> 00:22:05.246
And that's why—that's when I did that, and I took that time off, and now it's been the first time in 15 years that I haven't drank anything.
445
00:22:05.526 --> 00:22:06.747
more than one night in a row.
446
00:22:06.767 --> 00:22:07.428
And now it's eight months.
447
00:22:08.288 --> 00:22:15.433
And what I found though, is that just with that small amount that I would have every day, my sleep has gotten better.
448
00:22:15.834 --> 00:22:17.735
My emotions are more regulated.
449
00:22:18.295 --> 00:22:25.641
I mean, I I'm feeling physically better when I don't feel like I was overdoing it.
450
00:22:26.261 --> 00:22:26.501
Right.
451
00:22:27.702 --> 00:22:28.503
So what's the question?
452
00:22:28.523 --> 00:22:28.703
Yeah.
453
00:22:30.030 --> 00:22:31.832
I think it's fucking awesome.
454
00:22:31.933 --> 00:22:32.653
Yeah.
455
00:22:32.874 --> 00:22:39.122
I guess the question is, because we're going to transition now into the second part of it.
456
00:22:39.182 --> 00:22:43.507
I guess the question number one is, do you think that I had a problem?
457
00:22:45.250 --> 00:22:46.011
Me personally?
458
00:22:46.071 --> 00:22:46.271
No.
459
00:22:46.491 --> 00:22:46.591
Okay.
460
00:22:46.611 --> 00:22:46.712
Okay.
461
00:22:47.650 --> 00:22:47.830
No.
462
00:22:48.611 --> 00:22:49.812
I mean, it could have been gum.
463
00:22:50.053 --> 00:22:52.075
You could have been eating a pack of gum every night.
464
00:22:52.275 --> 00:22:54.938
And you're like, why am I fucking eating a pack of gum every night?
465
00:22:55.098 --> 00:22:57.180
And I want to test that I don't need it anymore.
466
00:22:57.360 --> 00:22:58.762
Yeah, I think that's great.
467
00:22:59.943 --> 00:23:04.568
Now, I also think it's great that you did that, because let's just be very candid.
468
00:23:04.708 --> 00:23:07.911
I think alcohol is a phenomenal fucking drug for the way it makes me feel.
469
00:23:08.071 --> 00:23:09.353
It's also fucking poison.
470
00:23:09.853 --> 00:23:10.113
Sure.
471
00:23:10.273 --> 00:23:11.054
I mean, it's poison.
472
00:23:11.414 --> 00:23:12.474
It is what it is.
473
00:23:12.514 --> 00:23:12.875
Right.
474
00:23:12.955 --> 00:23:22.180
Which is actually the second part to the question is when you drink like this, what does it do to your brain to keep you in that justification state?
475
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:24.781
I don't know enough clinically about that.
476
00:23:24.921 --> 00:23:28.403
What I do know is it's all about dopamine.
477
00:23:28.963 --> 00:23:29.283
Okay.
478
00:23:29.403 --> 00:23:30.624
It's the same thing with your phone.
479
00:23:30.705 --> 00:23:31.065
Okay.
480
00:23:31.105 --> 00:23:32.426
Look, let's just jump into this.
481
00:23:32.466 --> 00:23:32.986
Yeah, let's do it.
482
00:23:33.327 --> 00:23:35.789
Here's what I've learned about the neurobiology of addiction.
483
00:23:35.849 --> 00:23:37.510
I learned this when I was in rehab.
484
00:23:37.590 --> 00:23:41.854
We had an addiction specialist who's a doctor come in and talk to us about it.
485
00:23:42.574 --> 00:23:48.019
The co-founder of my organization, who's a clinical psychologist named Rich Jones, he talks the same thing.
486
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:49.000
So I know this is true.
487
00:23:49.660 --> 00:23:49.940
All right.
488
00:23:50.180 --> 00:23:57.122
So in our brains, we have these neuroreceptors that are always firing and they talk to each other and they spit out all this shit.
489
00:23:57.202 --> 00:24:05.124
When you have sex with your wife, when you see a really pretty sunset, you said you've never broken a bone, which is crazy because you used to be a fucking stuntman.
490
00:24:06.204 --> 00:24:07.684
Your body releases dopamine.
491
00:24:08.105 --> 00:24:12.886
And if you're in pain, it releases dopamine to help you with the pain, gives you the sensation of this and that.
492
00:24:14.837 --> 00:24:15.758
Here's the way I explain it.
493
00:24:16.038 --> 00:24:26.826
Normal people, normies, I call them, people like my wife, people like you that can have one or two drinks, whatever, your baseline level of dopamine in those neuroreceptors is a 10.
494
00:24:27.266 --> 00:24:28.367
It will always be a 10.
495
00:24:28.407 --> 00:24:29.288
That's your baseline.
496
00:24:29.328 --> 00:24:31.069
Just like you have what color?
497
00:24:31.089 --> 00:24:31.649
Brown eyes?
498
00:24:32.050 --> 00:24:33.150
You're never going to have blue eyes.
499
00:24:33.871 --> 00:24:34.892
When you have a drink...
500
00:24:35.512 --> 00:24:38.974
Your dopamine goes from 10 to 10 and a half or 11.
501
00:24:39.274 --> 00:24:42.535
And that extra dopamine makes you feel good.
502
00:24:43.095 --> 00:24:45.236
And then eventually your body goes back down to 10.
503
00:24:46.017 --> 00:24:47.237
This is where it gets crazy.
504
00:24:47.597 --> 00:24:51.439
My level of dopamine in my brain, my steady state is a nine.
505
00:24:52.019 --> 00:24:53.280
I'm just doing this for reference.
506
00:24:53.340 --> 00:24:53.940
Mine's a nine.
507
00:24:54.581 --> 00:24:55.501
Here's the difference.
508
00:24:55.641 --> 00:24:57.762
And I know this as a fact to be true.
509
00:24:57.862 --> 00:25:01.284
When I have a drink, my nine goes to 24.
510
00:25:03.110 --> 00:25:06.111
The feeling that I get from alcohol, you will never experience.
511
00:25:06.411 --> 00:25:09.352
I'm telling you, I thought it was bullshit.
512
00:25:09.812 --> 00:25:15.974
Three years into my sobriety, I'm in Vegas at a meeting with my CEO at the time.
513
00:25:16.454 --> 00:25:17.494
It's the middle of the day.
514
00:25:17.694 --> 00:25:19.255
I order a club soda with a lime.
515
00:25:19.795 --> 00:25:20.595
She does too.
516
00:25:20.995 --> 00:25:22.056
They bring the glass.
517
00:25:22.316 --> 00:25:22.916
I grab it.
518
00:25:23.136 --> 00:25:24.276
I take a huge swig.
519
00:25:24.496 --> 00:25:25.957
It is straight fucking vodka.
520
00:25:27.177 --> 00:25:30.078
It was the greatest two seconds of my life.
521
00:25:30.518 --> 00:25:31.319
It hit me.
522
00:25:31.459 --> 00:25:33.539
I go, oh, my God.
523
00:25:33.979 --> 00:25:36.801
Within seconds with my brain, it starts firing.
524
00:25:36.921 --> 00:25:39.982
And I go, oh, my God.
525
00:25:40.122 --> 00:25:41.862
And I go, I can do this again.
526
00:25:42.042 --> 00:25:43.543
One night, no one will know.
527
00:25:43.563 --> 00:25:45.124
I'm just going to get up from the table.
528
00:25:45.144 --> 00:25:46.124
I'm going to go upstairs.
529
00:25:46.324 --> 00:25:47.004
No one needs to know.
530
00:25:47.064 --> 00:25:48.705
I'm going to get fucked up tonight.
531
00:25:49.303 --> 00:25:49.863
That fast.
532
00:25:50.104 --> 00:25:50.724
That fast.
533
00:25:50.764 --> 00:25:51.465
Now, I didn't do it.
534
00:25:51.705 --> 00:25:53.106
I told my CEO immediately.
535
00:25:53.346 --> 00:25:54.046
They replaced it.
536
00:25:54.087 --> 00:25:55.407
This is actually a funny story.
537
00:25:55.968 --> 00:25:59.310
I tell this on most interviews I do is I went upstairs.
538
00:25:59.370 --> 00:26:00.171
I called the hotel.
539
00:26:00.191 --> 00:26:00.911
I was at the Wynn.
540
00:26:01.032 --> 00:26:02.933
And I go, you guys are jackasses.
541
00:26:03.073 --> 00:26:04.374
I go, you can't do this.
542
00:26:04.514 --> 00:26:05.475
I said, I'm fine.
543
00:26:06.135 --> 00:26:08.537
I said, but somebody else may spin out of control.
544
00:26:08.557 --> 00:26:09.938
You got to be really careful.
545
00:26:10.078 --> 00:26:12.160
And so they sent me a fruit plate to my room.
546
00:26:13.175 --> 00:26:14.016
I'm so sorry.
547
00:26:14.076 --> 00:26:15.197
So I take a picture of it.
548
00:26:15.237 --> 00:26:16.138
I send it to my wife.
549
00:26:16.198 --> 00:26:17.119
I go, only me.
550
00:26:17.179 --> 00:26:22.303
I go to Vegas, accidentally break my sobriety, and all I get is a fucking fruit plate.
551
00:26:22.964 --> 00:26:25.626
But it took about an hour and a half for me to calm down.
552
00:26:25.686 --> 00:26:27.448
So let's go back to the Neurobiology of Addiction.
553
00:26:27.488 --> 00:26:28.349
So mine goes to 24.
554
00:26:29.790 --> 00:26:34.112
There's this thing in your brain called the CDF factor that is like a thermostat.
555
00:26:34.132 --> 00:26:36.774
So when yours goes to 11, it pushes it back down to 10.
556
00:26:36.814 --> 00:26:40.916
When mine goes to 24, the CDF factor goes, holy shit, this is too high.
557
00:26:40.996 --> 00:26:45.118
And it shoves it down, but it shoves it too low, shoves it to eight and a half.
558
00:26:45.838 --> 00:26:47.319
So now I'm not at my norm.
559
00:26:47.439 --> 00:26:48.560
My norm is nine.
560
00:26:48.900 --> 00:26:50.261
So how do you get it back up to a nine?
561
00:26:50.502 --> 00:26:50.762
Drink.
562
00:26:51.162 --> 00:26:52.283
That's the vicious cycle.
563
00:26:52.803 --> 00:26:55.805
And is that for all addiction?
564
00:26:55.886 --> 00:26:56.826
Is that just for you?
565
00:26:56.866 --> 00:26:58.808
That's the way that we describe addiction.
566
00:26:58.848 --> 00:26:59.488
It's the same.
567
00:26:59.528 --> 00:27:04.292
If you're addicted to social media on your phone, when you're on your phone scrolling at night, your dopamine's firing.
568
00:27:04.312 --> 00:27:04.672
So high level.
569
00:27:04.672 --> 00:27:13.497
level concept if somebody had the same genetic or chemical makeup as you, they could get just as addicted to social media as you did to alcohol?
570
00:27:13.737 --> 00:27:14.498
A hundred percent.
571
00:27:14.898 --> 00:27:17.399
Why are some people addicted to gambling, but they don't drink?
572
00:27:17.459 --> 00:27:18.620
I was going to say gambling.
573
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:19.421
Gambling is a huge one.
574
00:27:19.721 --> 00:27:21.202
And look, I'm a recovered addict.
575
00:27:21.422 --> 00:27:23.323
I don't fucking understand the gambling addiction.
576
00:27:23.463 --> 00:27:23.683
Yeah.
577
00:27:23.823 --> 00:27:25.024
And it's funny you said that.
578
00:27:25.044 --> 00:27:26.365
I was just talking to a guy the other day.
579
00:27:26.465 --> 00:27:30.729
Why do some people get addicted to gambling, but they don't get addicted to alcohol?
580
00:27:30.769 --> 00:27:32.251
Why do some people get addicted to alcohol?
581
00:27:32.451 --> 00:27:33.872
I don't know the answer to that question.
582
00:27:35.033 --> 00:27:36.815
But I think it's with whatever you are.
583
00:27:36.915 --> 00:27:41.459
Now, this leads us into the argument, well, you're just trading one addiction to another.
584
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:43.701
You stopped drinking, but now you work out all the time.
585
00:27:43.961 --> 00:27:45.082
So fucking what?
586
00:27:45.342 --> 00:27:45.983
One's good for you.
587
00:27:46.043 --> 00:27:46.463
One's not.
588
00:27:46.523 --> 00:27:47.384
That's exactly right.
589
00:27:47.484 --> 00:27:48.085
Yeah, absolutely.
590
00:27:48.125 --> 00:27:48.906
Who gives a shit?
591
00:27:49.806 --> 00:27:52.068
I mean, but that is the fascinating thing.
592
00:27:52.148 --> 00:28:02.213
And the last part of it about the neurobiology of addiction, us as humans are the only people on the planet that have basically two sides to their brain.
593
00:28:02.254 --> 00:28:05.996
We have a thinking side of our brain and then we have the survival side of our brain.
594
00:28:06.056 --> 00:28:08.137
Well, if the cortex and the limbic.
595
00:28:08.437 --> 00:28:12.001
If both of those ever fight, survival always wins.
596
00:28:12.241 --> 00:28:13.302
And here's the proof of it.
597
00:28:13.462 --> 00:28:15.023
And this is the one that blew my mind.
598
00:28:15.484 --> 00:28:18.587
So when you drowned, everybody that drowns has water in their lungs.
599
00:28:18.607 --> 00:28:19.247
Okay?
600
00:28:20.008 --> 00:28:21.169
So I fall off of a boat.
601
00:28:21.229 --> 00:28:22.691
I got a cinder block tied to my leg.
602
00:28:22.751 --> 00:28:23.572
I'm under the water.
603
00:28:24.092 --> 00:28:28.857
The thinking part of my brain is saying, Hamilton, don't take a breath because you're going to get water in your lungs.
604
00:28:29.417 --> 00:28:32.920
So I'm consciously saying don't breathe because I'm trapped underneath the water.
605
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:33.760
You're going to die.
606
00:28:34.261 --> 00:28:37.703
Well, the survival part of your brain is saying your lungs need oxygen.
607
00:28:37.763 --> 00:28:38.764
You have to breathe.
608
00:28:38.864 --> 00:28:39.665
And so they fight.
609
00:28:39.985 --> 00:28:41.626
And ultimately, survival wins.
610
00:28:42.287 --> 00:28:44.168
You take a breath, water in your lungs, you drown.
611
00:28:44.708 --> 00:28:44.969
Okay?
612
00:28:45.309 --> 00:28:46.550
Survival will always win.
613
00:28:46.670 --> 00:28:52.954
So when my dopamine is below my normal level, my body thinks I'm dying and says, you have to drink.
614
00:28:53.915 --> 00:28:54.636
That's the thing.
615
00:28:54.676 --> 00:28:58.498
So my wife would say to me all the time, you don't love me enough to drink like a normal person.
616
00:28:59.098 --> 00:29:01.920
I wasn't capable of drinking like a normal person.
617
00:29:02.080 --> 00:29:05.683
I'm not that clicked for me because now I know.
618
00:29:07.364 --> 00:29:08.484
This is this is funny.
619
00:29:08.564 --> 00:29:18.030
My wife will say to me, if they invented a pill that you could take that after your second drink, you absolutely would not want another drink.
620
00:29:18.090 --> 00:29:18.771
Would you take it?
621
00:29:19.631 --> 00:29:20.372
No chance in hell.
622
00:29:21.292 --> 00:29:22.273
Because I know I would want it.
623
00:29:22.453 --> 00:29:24.894
Even if it said I wouldn't want it, I would want that drink.
624
00:29:25.115 --> 00:29:28.497
I know for a fact I don't want to have two drinks and stop.
625
00:29:28.597 --> 00:29:29.277
I know that.
626
00:29:30.218 --> 00:29:30.758
No desire.
627
00:29:31.179 --> 00:29:34.441
So if that's the case, then why even waste my fucking time?
628
00:29:34.461 --> 00:29:35.962
I'm not going to do it.
629
00:29:36.082 --> 00:29:36.302
Yeah.
630
00:29:36.842 --> 00:29:38.704
So how long has it been now since you last year?
631
00:29:38.764 --> 00:29:39.064
14 years.
632
00:29:39.284 --> 00:29:39.724
14 years.
633
00:29:39.744 --> 00:29:39.984
Yeah.
634
00:29:40.125 --> 00:29:40.765
Congratulations.
635
00:29:40.805 --> 00:29:41.245
Thank you, sir.
636
00:29:41.265 --> 00:29:42.206
All right.
637
00:29:42.726 --> 00:29:46.889
Now I want to talk a little bit about the traditional methods.
638
00:29:47.189 --> 00:29:47.469
Okay.
639
00:29:47.750 --> 00:29:48.110
So...
640
00:29:50.188 --> 00:29:57.515
We were talking before the show, and you said the traditional approach works, but only for some people.
641
00:29:57.675 --> 00:29:58.055
That's right.
642
00:29:58.255 --> 00:29:58.796
Not everyone.
643
00:29:58.836 --> 00:30:00.718
And would you argue not for the majority?
644
00:30:01.118 --> 00:30:02.599
Oh, my God, not for the majority.
645
00:30:02.619 --> 00:30:05.202
And as we go through this, you'll quickly see why that is.
646
00:30:05.222 --> 00:30:05.822
All right.
647
00:30:06.223 --> 00:30:12.348
First, walk me through the roadblocks that traditional intervention has.
648
00:30:12.468 --> 00:30:13.990
Well, let's talk about traditional first.
649
00:30:14.050 --> 00:30:14.911
What is traditional?
650
00:30:14.951 --> 00:30:15.711
Traditional is...
651
00:30:17.042 --> 00:30:18.483
quite frankly, clinical in nature.
652
00:30:18.503 --> 00:30:18.863
Okay.
653
00:30:19.043 --> 00:30:24.547
Even if it's a 12-step program, that's the clinical framework is, Josh, you have a problem.
654
00:30:24.667 --> 00:30:26.388
If it's addiction, you have to quit today.
655
00:30:26.428 --> 00:30:27.929
You have to quit for the rest of your life.
656
00:30:28.269 --> 00:30:30.790
There's all these different tools that you can use to get there.
657
00:30:30.810 --> 00:30:33.572
You can go to ARNA, which is a 12-step program.
658
00:30:33.592 --> 00:30:37.094
You can go see a therapist or psychologist or a psychiatrist.
659
00:30:37.114 --> 00:30:38.455
You can have CBT therapy.
660
00:30:38.475 --> 00:30:39.216
There's medication.
661
00:30:39.256 --> 00:30:40.036
There's all these things.
662
00:30:40.056 --> 00:30:42.438
But you got to do one of those things.
663
00:30:42.458 --> 00:30:43.118
Okay.
664
00:30:43.498 --> 00:30:51.600
And and basically the way we treat it is we're going to let Josh struggle because that's the only that's the only option.
665
00:30:52.100 --> 00:30:55.181
So when Josh comes to me, like, let me just back up a minute.
666
00:30:55.221 --> 00:30:57.561
When I was 20, I told you I knew I had a drinking problem.
667
00:30:58.381 --> 00:31:00.182
I didn't raise my hand for 22 years.
668
00:31:00.302 --> 00:31:00.602
Why?
669
00:31:01.382 --> 00:31:03.542
Because I knew what the treatment was.
670
00:31:03.722 --> 00:31:05.583
I had to quit for the rest of my life.
671
00:31:06.573 --> 00:31:08.014
And I was not going to do that.
672
00:31:08.034 --> 00:31:08.715
You weren't ready to quit.
673
00:31:08.775 --> 00:31:09.836
I wasn't ready to quit.
674
00:31:09.916 --> 00:31:11.176
So I didn't raise my hand.
675
00:31:11.877 --> 00:31:18.742
I only raised my hand when I basically was forced into it, not by my wife, but because I wanted to save this.
676
00:31:18.762 --> 00:31:19.583
And that's what I did it.
677
00:31:20.103 --> 00:31:22.265
So here are the three gaps that that causes.
678
00:31:22.325 --> 00:31:23.986
Number one, and this is factual data.
679
00:31:24.006 --> 00:31:27.148
If we're talking strictly about addiction, we can talk about mental health as well.
680
00:31:27.609 --> 00:31:33.293
Ninety five percent of people that struggle will never raise their hand, ask for help and enter clinical treatment.
681
00:31:33.773 --> 00:31:34.634
Ninety five percent.
682
00:31:34.654 --> 00:31:35.535
Ninety five percent.
683
00:31:36.235 --> 00:31:37.497
I was one of the 5%.
684
00:31:38.217 --> 00:31:38.858
Why is that?
685
00:31:39.579 --> 00:31:41.000
And there's all kinds of reasons.
686
00:31:41.081 --> 00:31:42.062
It's stigma.
687
00:31:42.202 --> 00:31:43.864
It costs too much money.
688
00:31:43.884 --> 00:31:44.925
It's this, it's that.
689
00:31:44.945 --> 00:31:46.887
What's the biggest reason?
690
00:31:46.947 --> 00:31:52.153
97% will tell you it's the scariest fucking thing you'll ever do in your life, and it's very black and white.
691
00:31:52.213 --> 00:31:53.154
There's no gray area.
692
00:31:53.174 --> 00:31:53.614
Okay.
693
00:31:53.634 --> 00:31:53.895
Okay.
694
00:31:54.195 --> 00:32:02.778
So you come to me, you're struggling, you go, Hamilton, I have this great podcast, I have my company, I have my family, I can't leave and go to treatment.
695
00:32:02.798 --> 00:32:05.539
And to be quite honest with you, I don't even know if I want to quit.
696
00:32:06.140 --> 00:32:09.321
It doesn't matter how much I love you and how nice I say it.
697
00:32:10.021 --> 00:32:14.223
The underlying theme of what I'm going to say to you is, well, Josh, you're an alcoholic.
698
00:32:15.653 --> 00:32:18.275
And if you don't want to do this, you're just in denial.
699
00:32:18.375 --> 00:32:20.036
Go experience more pain.
700
00:32:20.176 --> 00:32:21.577
Have a moment of clarity.
701
00:32:21.877 --> 00:32:26.681
Or, and this one pisses me off more than anything, we'll wait till you hit rock bottom.
702
00:32:27.501 --> 00:32:29.863
And then you'll be ready and you'll come back and see me.
703
00:32:29.963 --> 00:32:31.204
That's the willingness thing.
704
00:32:31.324 --> 00:32:34.907
Is that literally a narrative that gets pushed out there?
705
00:32:35.047 --> 00:32:36.768
You got to hit rock bottom before?
706
00:32:37.028 --> 00:32:40.070
Look at my counselor, Sam, in treatment.
707
00:32:40.110 --> 00:32:40.771
You're a pussy.
708
00:32:40.831 --> 00:32:41.411
Go home.
709
00:32:41.611 --> 00:32:42.232
You'll be back.
710
00:32:43.582 --> 00:32:44.883
Fentanyl changed all of that.
711
00:32:45.644 --> 00:32:53.790
Because 13 years ago, 14 years ago, I could have left and gone and started drinking again and even taken ecstasy and Coke, and I wouldn't have probably died.
712
00:32:54.651 --> 00:32:57.533
Some people do, but the vast majority of people wouldn't.
713
00:32:57.573 --> 00:33:00.956
They could experience more pain, and then when they hit rock bottom, they come back.
714
00:33:01.096 --> 00:33:05.339
Now I go out, and I do Coke or I do weed, and it's laced with fentanyl.
715
00:33:05.379 --> 00:33:06.079
Now I'm dead.
716
00:33:06.100 --> 00:33:07.360
Now you can't help anybody.
717
00:33:07.380 --> 00:33:07.981
Right.
718
00:33:08.161 --> 00:33:09.781
So that's the first gap.
719
00:33:10.122 --> 00:33:16.783
To me, it's criminal when you say to me, Hamilton, I'm struggling and I want help, and I only give you one option.
720
00:33:16.803 --> 00:33:19.744
And if you don't take it, I say, well, come back and see me when you're ready.
721
00:33:19.784 --> 00:33:24.605
Yeah, if you don't take it, then it's kind of goodbye and good luck.
722
00:33:24.945 --> 00:33:28.266
I use this example, but I'll use a different one today, diabetes.
723
00:33:28.466 --> 00:33:30.927
Imagine you come into me and I said, you have diabetes.
724
00:33:31.587 --> 00:33:33.008
And you need to do this and that.
725
00:33:33.208 --> 00:33:34.828
And you go, I don't want to do that.
726
00:33:34.848 --> 00:33:40.331
And I go, all right, well, when we have to chop off your leg and you go into a diabetic coma, you'll be ready for the insulin.
727
00:33:40.371 --> 00:33:41.491
So we're going to wait for that.
728
00:33:41.691 --> 00:33:41.991
Yeah.
729
00:33:42.431 --> 00:33:46.433
Peter Atiyah, he describes this as medicine 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0.
730
00:33:46.553 --> 00:33:47.253
Yeah.
731
00:33:47.333 --> 00:33:47.574
Right.
732
00:33:47.854 --> 00:33:50.395
And kind of in the same realm, not...
733
00:33:51.936 --> 00:33:57.941
uh, towards addiction, but medicine 1.0 being the, the primitive form of medicine.
734
00:33:57.961 --> 00:34:03.126
We don't even know works 2.0 waiting until there's a problem 3.0 getting ahead of it.
735
00:34:03.146 --> 00:34:03.446
That's right.
736
00:34:03.747 --> 00:34:05.048
Well, think about it as cancer.
737
00:34:05.568 --> 00:34:09.552
If I get melanoma on my arm because I don't wear sunscreen, it's a mole.
738
00:34:10.133 --> 00:34:11.474
And I go to a dermatologist.
739
00:34:12.094 --> 00:34:15.297
The first treatment is to take that mole off using Mohs surgery.
740
00:34:16.367 --> 00:34:20.750
Then if it metastasized, then you go to the next level and next level and next level.
741
00:34:20.790 --> 00:34:24.211
So imagine I go to a doctor and he goes, hey, you got a mole on your arm.
742
00:34:24.672 --> 00:34:25.772
You don't wear sunscreen.
743
00:34:25.932 --> 00:34:26.693
It's melanoma.
744
00:34:28.594 --> 00:34:35.298
I'm going to treat you with stage four chemo because you don't you're not going to go out and start wearing sunscreen again.
745
00:34:35.358 --> 00:34:38.339
I'm going to wait until this metastasize and then I'll treat you.
746
00:34:38.379 --> 00:34:42.742
There's never been any treatment for addiction other than you have to quit for the rest of your life.
747
00:34:42.942 --> 00:34:43.562
Does that make sense?
748
00:34:43.582 --> 00:34:43.682
Yeah.
749
00:34:43.703 --> 00:34:43.863
Yeah.
750
00:34:44.783 --> 00:34:46.364
And that's the first gap.
751
00:34:46.384 --> 00:34:47.325
That's the biggest gap.
752
00:34:47.405 --> 00:34:49.787
And our philosophy is very different, which we'll get into.
753
00:34:49.907 --> 00:34:50.267
We will.
754
00:34:50.287 --> 00:34:51.148
What's the second gap?
755
00:34:51.208 --> 00:34:52.469
The second gap is the family.
756
00:34:52.869 --> 00:34:54.050
We never support the family.
757
00:34:54.090 --> 00:34:54.831
This is the joke.
758
00:34:54.931 --> 00:34:57.713
I have three daughters, so I always pick on my son who I don't have.
759
00:34:57.833 --> 00:35:05.779
If my son got diagnosed with cancer today, think about very rationally how many of my friends and family would show up at my house.
760
00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:13.907
with whatever casseroles and food for days and throw their arms around me and say how sorry they are and how much they love me and they'll support me.
761
00:35:13.927 --> 00:35:16.550
Okay, now picture my kids a heroin addict.
762
00:35:17.903 --> 00:35:18.603
No one's coming over.
763
00:35:19.084 --> 00:35:19.344
No.
764
00:35:19.664 --> 00:35:21.625
More importantly, I'm not telling anybody.
765
00:35:21.745 --> 00:35:24.446
In fact, if they do know, they're probably avoiding you.
766
00:35:24.586 --> 00:35:26.887
They're avoiding me and they're talking about me behind my back.
767
00:35:26.967 --> 00:35:28.468
And I'm not going to bring it up to anybody.
768
00:35:28.648 --> 00:35:28.848
Sure.
769
00:35:29.128 --> 00:35:31.969
So family has to be supported.
770
00:35:32.029 --> 00:35:34.771
This is interesting because I know you do a lot with businesses.
771
00:35:35.131 --> 00:35:42.834
They did a study and found that family members of addicts are five times more likely to be hospitalized in a given year than the general population.
772
00:35:43.074 --> 00:35:43.855
Family members of addicts?
773
00:35:43.875 --> 00:35:44.295
Family members.
774
00:35:44.315 --> 00:35:44.455
Yeah.
775
00:35:44.515 --> 00:35:44.915
of addicts.
776
00:35:45.135 --> 00:35:48.236
Stressed out of your mind, you're anxious all the time.
777
00:35:48.376 --> 00:35:56.339
So for various reasons, stress being an underlying factor to contributing to those reasons, they're more likely to be hospitalized.
778
00:35:56.680 --> 00:35:57.000
Wow.
779
00:35:57.200 --> 00:35:58.260
Crazy, right?
780
00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:01.481
Family has to be supported for that reason only.
781
00:36:01.862 --> 00:36:12.506
But the other reason is, and this is the secret, if I can get your family engaged and actually understand what's going on, we have a much better chance of getting that individual better.
782
00:36:12.646 --> 00:36:13.426
Perfect example.
783
00:36:14.326 --> 00:36:16.647
This is going to sound absolutely fucking crazy.
784
00:36:16.807 --> 00:36:18.627
My wife did not want me to quit drinking.
785
00:36:19.868 --> 00:36:21.208
She wanted me to drink like her.
786
00:36:22.328 --> 00:36:26.530
She didn't understand, nor did I, quite frankly, the neurobiology of addiction.
787
00:36:27.150 --> 00:36:34.732
I didn't understand and she didn't understand that I am physically, mentally, genetically incapable of drinking like that.
788
00:36:35.573 --> 00:36:36.233
Does that make sense?
789
00:36:36.253 --> 00:36:36.553
Yeah.
790
00:36:36.693 --> 00:36:45.857
Once she got that, the light bulb went off and she said, holy shit, I've been beaten up on this kid and he's not even capable of doing what I wanted him to do.
791
00:36:45.917 --> 00:36:47.158
And I stopped beating up myself.
792
00:36:47.338 --> 00:36:47.578
Right.
793
00:36:47.618 --> 00:36:53.900
So she she liked who you were when you were drinking because you were not a mean drunk or some of these other things that you hear about.
794
00:36:54.401 --> 00:36:59.863
And she just wanted you to dial it down to the level that you could have fun together and I could have a drink.
795
00:36:59.903 --> 00:37:00.763
You could have a drink.
796
00:37:00.963 --> 00:37:02.064
Nice night, whatever.
797
00:37:02.624 --> 00:37:04.245
But you were incapable of doing that.
798
00:37:04.265 --> 00:37:04.745
Incapable.
799
00:37:05.385 --> 00:37:06.966
of your dopamine levels.
800
00:37:07.206 --> 00:37:07.366
Yep.
801
00:37:08.007 --> 00:37:09.488
So family has to be supported.
802
00:37:09.528 --> 00:37:10.408
That's gap number two.
803
00:37:10.468 --> 00:37:18.713
And then the third gap, and quite frankly, this is the one that's most interesting to me, is just like any other type of healthcare, you know,
804
00:37:19.332 --> 00:37:23.414
adherence, engagement, and compliance is the most important thing.
805
00:37:23.434 --> 00:37:24.254
So I'll give you an example.
806
00:37:24.374 --> 00:37:33.618
In this country, diabetics that are newly diagnosed six months in, 90% of them, I believe, are eating healthier, working out, or taking insulin.
807
00:37:33.678 --> 00:37:36.939
They are actually adherent to the treatment plan that they were prescribed.
808
00:37:37.379 --> 00:37:39.080
With behavioral health, that number is 11%.
809
00:37:41.125 --> 00:37:49.069
So that's why when you send people to treatment, 60% of people relapse and 50% of those have to go back to treatment.
810
00:37:49.109 --> 00:37:50.609
Most people, I'm an anomaly.
811
00:37:50.669 --> 00:37:52.630
Most people go to treatment two or three times.
812
00:37:52.690 --> 00:37:55.011
They have to do it over and over and over again.
813
00:37:55.131 --> 00:37:58.633
And it's because they don't stay adherent to the treatment plan.
814
00:37:58.673 --> 00:38:00.054
Here's another fascinating thing.
815
00:38:00.094 --> 00:38:06.177
And this is, if anybody is listening to this podcast that is in recovery, this is going to piss them off and I don't give a shit.
816
00:38:07.257 --> 00:38:09.860
There's a guy at Harvard named Dr. John Martin.
817
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:17.529
He did a study, and what he found is if we can get people engaged in positive change, yes, that can be treatment.
818
00:38:18.310 --> 00:38:25.598
But it can also be things like self-help, like working out, getting, quote-unquote, addicted to something else, as long as they stay engaged.
819
00:38:26.078 --> 00:38:30.780
adherent to that positive change for six months or longer, 75% of people get better.
820
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:34.201
It is not true that everybody has to go get clinical care.
821
00:38:34.341 --> 00:38:35.221
I'll give you an example.
822
00:38:35.341 --> 00:38:39.603
Guarantee you, I've never talked to you about this, guaranteed you're going to nod your head right.
823
00:38:40.283 --> 00:38:46.866
I bet you know someone that used to drink too much, that either got married, got into CrossFit, or got into religion and they changed the way they drink.
824
00:38:47.126 --> 00:38:47.686
Several people.
825
00:38:47.706 --> 00:38:51.407
They probably still drink, but they don't drink anywhere near they need to.
826
00:38:51.547 --> 00:38:52.708
That is living proof.
827
00:38:53.248 --> 00:38:57.309
That you know, there are people like me for all the recovery people out there.
828
00:38:57.889 --> 00:38:58.649
I couldn't do that.
829
00:38:58.849 --> 00:39:00.269
If I could, I would have figured it out.
830
00:39:00.409 --> 00:39:00.629
Yeah.
831
00:39:00.910 --> 00:39:02.730
But there are people that can.
832
00:39:03.470 --> 00:39:07.771
And it's all about the adherent to whatever that plan is you put in front of them.
833
00:39:07.811 --> 00:39:08.571
That's interesting.
834
00:39:08.591 --> 00:39:09.771
What would qualify?
835
00:39:09.791 --> 00:39:12.372
Like, where's the line between what's better?
836
00:39:12.492 --> 00:39:14.452
What's a better addiction working out?
837
00:39:14.512 --> 00:39:15.292
That's an easy one.
838
00:39:15.412 --> 00:39:15.592
Right.
839
00:39:15.632 --> 00:39:18.013
But what about like alcohol versus porn?
840
00:39:19.415 --> 00:39:19.996
You know what?
841
00:39:20.156 --> 00:39:23.964
That is what makes this such a fascinating conversation.
842
00:39:23.984 --> 00:39:26.268
That's not for me to decide.
843
00:39:26.529 --> 00:39:27.010
That is...
844
00:39:29.243 --> 00:39:30.764
Yeah, that actually is.
845
00:39:30.844 --> 00:39:32.045
I've told you this a number of times.
846
00:39:32.085 --> 00:39:33.685
That is a phenomenal question.
847
00:39:33.786 --> 00:39:40.969
But ask yourself the question, would you rather be if you're in a marriage and you love your wife and it doesn't bother your wife?
848
00:39:41.850 --> 00:39:44.391
And I mean, porn's not going to kill you.
849
00:39:44.411 --> 00:39:46.552
It's not making you physically sick.
850
00:39:46.672 --> 00:39:49.574
If you watch porn every night, maybe you do it too much.
851
00:39:49.794 --> 00:39:50.555
Is that better?
852
00:39:50.755 --> 00:39:52.115
Or being addicted to heroin?
853
00:39:52.316 --> 00:39:53.016
I would say porn.
854
00:39:53.276 --> 00:39:54.896
I mean, that's my personal opinion.
855
00:39:54.916 --> 00:39:56.237
I probably would too.
856
00:39:56.317 --> 00:40:00.018
No, I'm not—no one out there believed that I think you should go and get a porn addiction.
857
00:40:00.038 --> 00:40:14.922
We're not condoning to go watch porn, but that's why I'm curious about this because I'm sure that there's people out there listening to this conversation trying to reconcile in their head of the things that they think that they can do or maybe they did.
858
00:40:14.942 --> 00:40:15.702
Yeah.
859
00:40:15.722 --> 00:40:17.122
And they're like, oh, did I do it right?
860
00:40:17.142 --> 00:40:18.042
Did I not do it right?
861
00:40:18.122 --> 00:40:18.482
I don't know.
862
00:40:18.883 --> 00:40:19.583
I mean, look, I—
863
00:40:20.563 --> 00:40:26.065
I mean, I think the way we should all go through life is if you could do most things in moderation, I think life would be pretty easy.
864
00:40:26.105 --> 00:40:27.685
But unfortunately, we just can't do that.
865
00:40:27.925 --> 00:40:28.986
And we are who we are.
866
00:40:30.726 --> 00:40:33.067
You know, I'm addicted to work without question.
867
00:40:34.107 --> 00:40:35.248
And is it healthy for me?
868
00:40:35.748 --> 00:40:41.670
Probably not, because I run really hot all the time, not angry, but just always going.
869
00:40:41.870 --> 00:40:43.690
And I'm sure that creates stress.
870
00:40:43.750 --> 00:40:45.031
I'm sure that's not healthy.
871
00:40:45.811 --> 00:40:51.813
But if I had to choose between that or destroying my life and being an alcoholic and getting liver disease, that's what I'm going to do.
872
00:40:51.833 --> 00:40:53.893
Perfect example of what I was saying.
873
00:40:53.973 --> 00:40:54.473
Yeah.
874
00:40:54.793 --> 00:40:56.994
And I completely resonate with that, too.
875
00:40:57.374 --> 00:41:00.275
Now, I don't think as high of a motor as you do.
876
00:41:00.775 --> 00:41:02.655
You know, I can just tell that by talking with you.
877
00:41:02.975 --> 00:41:04.616
But I do bear loads.
878
00:41:05.116 --> 00:41:05.276
Yeah.
879
00:41:05.296 --> 00:41:05.416
Right.
880
00:41:05.436 --> 00:41:09.777
So I'll be that calm, cool and collected guy in the office, but I'll put it all on my fucking back.
881
00:41:10.217 --> 00:41:19.379
And so, you know, from a business standpoint and, you know, trading one for the other kind of thing, I would still say that that's better than being an alcoholic.
882
00:41:19.819 --> 00:41:20.419
Oh, 100%.
883
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:21.879
I mean, that's my opinion.
884
00:41:21.919 --> 00:41:22.099
Yeah.
885
00:41:22.319 --> 00:41:23.799
But that's not for me to decide.
886
00:41:23.819 --> 00:41:24.199
No, of course.
887
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:25.860
But my philosophy is very simple.
888
00:41:26.060 --> 00:41:37.862
If Josh, you had a drinking problem and the 12 steps and everything wasn't right for you and you said, Hamilton, I think if I stand on my head for five minutes a day in the corner of the room.
889
00:41:38.582 --> 00:41:39.343
I will get better.
890
00:41:39.583 --> 00:41:40.883
I would say, let's give it a shot.
891
00:41:41.424 --> 00:41:44.365
Now, the likelihood that's going to work is probably going to be slim to none.
892
00:41:44.445 --> 00:41:47.407
But if that does work, why would we not try that?
893
00:41:48.187 --> 00:41:52.610
That is just they're not everyone in this country.
894
00:41:53.130 --> 00:41:55.792
Everyone in this country, everyone in this world thinks differently.
895
00:41:55.972 --> 00:41:57.212
We all learn differently.
896
00:41:57.232 --> 00:41:58.013
We all learn.
897
00:41:59.876 --> 00:42:01.197
We're just very different people.
898
00:42:01.277 --> 00:42:06.642
So why is it that there's only one philosophy on how we get people to change?
899
00:42:06.862 --> 00:42:08.403
And that's the frustration I have.
900
00:42:08.883 --> 00:42:12.086
So again, I go back to what I said, dude, traditional treatment works.
901
00:42:12.606 --> 00:42:15.188
And a lot of people that come into our program...
902
00:42:16.109 --> 00:42:18.210
We end up getting them to traditional treatment.
903
00:42:18.270 --> 00:42:19.130
And we'll talk about that.
904
00:42:19.291 --> 00:42:21.972
But because I need it and we need to get them there.
905
00:42:22.572 --> 00:42:24.413
But we're going to get them there much faster.
906
00:42:24.693 --> 00:42:28.455
And they're going to be much more apt to want to do it because of the way we do it.
907
00:42:28.515 --> 00:42:32.336
Then me just pointing at you and saying, here's a very funny example.
908
00:42:32.497 --> 00:42:34.657
I've never met your wife before, but I know you're married.
909
00:42:34.698 --> 00:42:35.438
I know you got kids.
910
00:42:35.938 --> 00:42:39.080
Imagine going to your wife tonight and say, babe, you know, I've been looking at you.
911
00:42:39.100 --> 00:42:40.240
You're getting a little fat.
912
00:42:40.940 --> 00:42:42.241
You need to start working out.
913
00:42:42.321 --> 00:42:43.982
And I want you to work out three times a day.
914
00:42:44.682 --> 00:42:46.103
You're, you're, you're done.
915
00:42:46.123 --> 00:42:46.663
Yeah, you're done.
916
00:42:46.683 --> 00:42:49.464
You know, I might try that just as a social experiment.
917
00:42:49.725 --> 00:42:51.305
This is why, because I get to blame it on you.
918
00:42:51.605 --> 00:42:51.946
That's right.
919
00:42:52.006 --> 00:42:54.647
At the end of the day, and put it on, put it on Instagram and see what happens.
920
00:42:55.247 --> 00:42:55.427
Yeah.
921
00:42:55.447 --> 00:42:57.768
You're going to get divorced or she's going to punch you in the face.
922
00:42:57.928 --> 00:42:58.789
Yeah, probably both.
923
00:42:58.909 --> 00:43:02.531
But what's the difference when you go into your wife and saying, babe, I think you have a drinking problem.
924
00:43:02.551 --> 00:43:04.352
You need to quit today and quit for the rest of your life.
925
00:43:04.572 --> 00:43:08.734
It's, it's, if you just dumb it down, it's,
926
00:43:09.839 --> 00:43:14.367
And again, if we can get her there and she has that moment of clarity, it's going to work.
927
00:43:14.828 --> 00:43:16.370
But go back to my original point.
928
00:43:16.591 --> 00:43:18.814
It only works for a small amount of people.
929
00:43:19.255 --> 00:43:21.138
And so we have to close those gaps.
930
00:43:21.439 --> 00:43:23.202
That is the most important thing, in my opinion.
931
00:43:24.933 --> 00:43:29.555
What's the thing that people get most wrong about traditional treatments?
932
00:43:30.195 --> 00:43:34.577
Well, my big thing is that it's one size fits all.
933
00:43:34.898 --> 00:43:35.158
Okay.
934
00:43:35.238 --> 00:43:36.678
I mean, that's what everybody thinks.
935
00:43:36.718 --> 00:43:37.939
I mean, that's what I thought.
936
00:43:38.139 --> 00:43:39.480
I mean, I remember I was...
937
00:43:40.448 --> 00:43:43.229
I think I was 28 years.
938
00:43:43.329 --> 00:43:43.629
No.
939
00:43:44.410 --> 00:43:45.130
Yeah, 28.
940
00:43:45.390 --> 00:43:51.733
I was in California, was with my girlfriend at the time, and we met a guy and they said, oh, he's an alcoholic.
941
00:43:52.313 --> 00:43:55.014
And immediately I was like, what is wrong with this fucking guy?
942
00:43:55.034 --> 00:43:56.955
He like, and he had gone to treatment.
943
00:43:57.075 --> 00:43:59.857
And it's just that instant stigma that I had.
944
00:44:00.857 --> 00:44:02.498
Like this doesn't make any sense to me.
945
00:44:02.578 --> 00:44:04.960
And it's just stigma is stigma is real.
946
00:44:05.160 --> 00:44:06.361
It's absolutely real.
947
00:44:06.421 --> 00:44:14.327
And we need to stop bullshitting people that it's not because if you had a drinking problem and you were drinking and destroying your life, I'm a recovered alcoholic.
948
00:44:14.507 --> 00:44:16.809
The first thing I would think is what the fuck is wrong with you?
949
00:44:17.009 --> 00:44:17.229
Yeah.
950
00:44:17.509 --> 00:44:21.232
And if I feel that way as a recovered alcoholic, everyone else feels that way, too.
951
00:44:21.512 --> 00:44:21.732
Sure.
952
00:44:22.593 --> 00:44:23.433
OK, so how do you do it?
953
00:44:23.553 --> 00:44:24.154
Do it differently?
954
00:44:24.174 --> 00:44:24.334
Yeah.
955
00:44:24.555 --> 00:44:32.559
Well, quite frankly, U-Turn Health, which is the company we founded, the only reason we created it was to close those three gaps.
956
00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:33.359
That's all we do.
957
00:44:34.059 --> 00:44:35.220
So that's what you focus on.
958
00:44:35.260 --> 00:44:37.861
That's all we focus on.
959
00:44:38.041 --> 00:44:43.484
I am not doing CBT therapy on you or CPT, whatever the hell it's called.
960
00:44:43.684 --> 00:44:45.345
I am not a rehab.
961
00:44:45.505 --> 00:44:46.905
I am not a therapist.
962
00:44:46.985 --> 00:44:47.606
None of us are.
963
00:44:48.581 --> 00:44:52.506
What the core of what we are is is peer support.
964
00:44:52.847 --> 00:44:54.889
So peer support, I'm sure you've heard about it.
965
00:44:55.390 --> 00:44:56.671
If maybe you haven't.
966
00:44:57.232 --> 00:45:06.303
Peer support is the art of taking a peer that looks like you, acts like you, is like you, that has struggled with the same thing you're struggling with.
967
00:45:06.844 --> 00:45:07.805
and putting you together.
968
00:45:08.065 --> 00:45:09.066
That's what peer support is.
969
00:45:09.126 --> 00:45:10.046
So I'll give you an example.
970
00:45:11.027 --> 00:45:15.330
I know this guy named Johnny Emmerman that started an organization called Emmerman's Angels.
971
00:45:15.430 --> 00:45:17.872
So Johnny had testicular cancer.
972
00:45:18.632 --> 00:45:19.353
He got better.
973
00:45:19.533 --> 00:45:20.874
Then it metastasized.
974
00:45:20.954 --> 00:45:23.295
And the second time, he was like, I have the best doctors.
975
00:45:23.776 --> 00:45:24.836
I have great friends.
976
00:45:25.877 --> 00:45:27.298
I have the greatest medicine.
977
00:45:27.338 --> 00:45:31.001
But what I don't have is me that has already gone through this.
978
00:45:31.141 --> 00:45:32.482
So he created Emmerman's Angels.
979
00:45:32.542 --> 00:45:34.183
So now if you get...
980
00:45:34.683 --> 00:45:56.731
lung cancer that's metastasized to your brain and you live in phoenix they will find someone that beat that that becomes your angel that will help you through that process what to expect when to push back when to fight what questions to ask that's what peer support is so the challenge that i had josh and my co-founder had this challenge way before me it's not seen as a professional service
981
00:45:57.567 --> 00:45:58.368
And I get it.
982
00:45:58.468 --> 00:45:59.748
You don't go to therapy school.
983
00:45:59.809 --> 00:46:01.450
You don't become a psychologist.
984
00:46:02.130 --> 00:46:03.511
It's lived experience.
985
00:46:04.071 --> 00:46:11.116
But the other thing is, is no one's ever really created a dedicated program and then gone out and researched and did it.
986
00:46:11.216 --> 00:46:12.377
Help me understand this.
987
00:46:12.497 --> 00:46:14.638
It's not considered a professional service.
988
00:46:14.818 --> 00:46:16.399
By who and why is that important?
989
00:46:16.580 --> 00:46:22.824
Mainly by the entire population, but more importantly, by the insurance companies.
990
00:46:23.584 --> 00:46:23.965
Got it.
991
00:46:24.666 --> 00:46:26.568
So like, it's not a clinical service.
992
00:46:26.588 --> 00:46:28.310
Therapy is a clinical service.
993
00:46:28.571 --> 00:46:30.293
So insurance will not pay for it.
994
00:46:30.573 --> 00:46:33.417
They will, but they pay for it ass backwards.
995
00:46:33.457 --> 00:46:36.981
They'll pay you to talk to somebody in 15 minute increments.
996
00:46:38.283 --> 00:46:40.346
And the rates are ridiculous.
997
00:46:40.686 --> 00:46:42.027
Now, it's not their fault.
998
00:46:42.267 --> 00:46:42.508
Sure.
999
00:46:42.628 --> 00:46:46.511
Again, no one ever created a dedicated program and studied it.
1000
00:46:47.132 --> 00:46:48.313
We've changed this now.
1001
00:46:48.433 --> 00:46:50.455
So my co-founder created a model.
1002
00:46:50.575 --> 00:46:53.598
It's a very specific model called assertive community engagement.
1003
00:46:53.618 --> 00:46:55.019
You don't need to know the technical term.
1004
00:46:55.059 --> 00:46:56.000
This is the secret.
1005
00:46:57.443 --> 00:46:59.644
So for 70 years, follow me on this.
1006
00:46:59.725 --> 00:47:01.165
This is how we treat this stuff.
1007
00:47:01.426 --> 00:47:03.847
Josh comes to me and says, Hamilton, I love your story.
1008
00:47:03.887 --> 00:47:04.648
I'm struggling.
1009
00:47:05.948 --> 00:47:06.449
I need help.
1010
00:47:06.969 --> 00:47:07.830
I drink too much.
1011
00:47:07.970 --> 00:47:09.531
My wife is pissed, whatever it is.
1012
00:47:09.791 --> 00:47:13.213
The traditional approach is I say, Josh, you're an addict, alcoholic.
1013
00:47:13.273 --> 00:47:13.793
I love you.
1014
00:47:13.834 --> 00:47:15.174
Doesn't matter how nice I say it.
1015
00:47:15.294 --> 00:47:16.515
And I give you all these options.
1016
00:47:16.555 --> 00:47:18.737
You can see a therapist, a counselor, this, that.
1017
00:47:19.697 --> 00:47:21.598
Um, you can go to a, you can go to NA.
1018
00:47:21.798 --> 00:47:22.738
I'm going to support you.
1019
00:47:22.778 --> 00:47:23.599
I'm going to love you.
1020
00:47:23.779 --> 00:47:24.559
I'm here to help.
1021
00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:25.319
Here you go.
1022
00:47:25.339 --> 00:47:36.103
And I walk away and I'm going to support you, but I leave it up to you to determine if you're going to use the tools and stay engaged, who's responsible for whether or not you do the right thing.
1023
00:47:36.163 --> 00:47:36.764
It's you, right?
1024
00:47:37.344 --> 00:47:38.624
It's all your responsibility.
1025
00:47:38.784 --> 00:47:43.186
And, and the whole model says you have to be willing to do this.
1026
00:47:43.686 --> 00:47:45.887
So this is where I normally blow people's minds.
1027
00:47:46.147 --> 00:47:49.070
So I believe addiction is a brain disorder.
1028
00:47:49.550 --> 00:47:52.072
I don't like that word, but it's something in your brain.
1029
00:47:52.413 --> 00:47:53.814
But let's say you don't agree with that.
1030
00:47:53.894 --> 00:48:02.442
What you can't disagree with is anyone that's been diagnosed with either substance use disorder or mental illness has this side effect of the disease in their brain.
1031
00:48:02.762 --> 00:48:03.623
100% of people have it.
1032
00:48:03.663 --> 00:48:04.824
It's called irrational thinking.
1033
00:48:06.236 --> 00:48:07.798
OK, so let's go back.
1034
00:48:08.699 --> 00:48:16.667
I go to the guy that has a substance use disorder, which is the disease that the side effect, it causes him to think irrationally.
1035
00:48:17.168 --> 00:48:23.815
And then I say to him, I want you to rationally have a moment of clarity and decide to use these tools and stay adherent.
1036
00:48:24.355 --> 00:48:27.036
Could be the dumbest fucking thing we've ever done in our life.
1037
00:48:27.636 --> 00:48:33.859
So think about me going to Christopher Reeve when he was a quadriplegic and saying, hey, buddy, if you could just get up and walk 10 steps, you're going to be cured.
1038
00:48:34.299 --> 00:48:34.979
It's impossible.
1039
00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:37.100
That's why the adherence rates suck.
1040
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:39.101
So our model is very different.
1041
00:48:39.201 --> 00:48:44.643
I'm going to give Josh another Josh, another dude that looks like him, acts like him, same profession.
1042
00:48:44.723 --> 00:48:50.305
If you're a veteran, I'm going to give you a veteran that has struggled with the same thing you struggled with and overcome.
1043
00:48:50.865 --> 00:48:51.806
And the secret is...
1044
00:48:52.466 --> 00:48:53.767
I'm going to flip the paradigm.
1045
00:48:53.907 --> 00:49:02.853
So instead of counting on you to be responsible and rational and use all the tools, that responsibility falls equal on your coach.
1046
00:49:04.033 --> 00:49:17.304
So when you don't show up to your meeting, when you don't go to the therapist like you said you were going to do, when you commit to doing yoga five times a week and you don't do it, instead of blaming you and saying, Josh, why the fuck aren't you doing what you told me you're going to do?
1047
00:49:17.324 --> 00:49:23.729
Our coach has to figure out how to engage you, how to keep you engaged and how to keep you moving forward.
1048
00:49:24.149 --> 00:49:24.790
It's really...
1049
00:49:25.510 --> 00:49:26.231
It's so simple.
1050
00:49:26.291 --> 00:49:26.912
It's stupid.
1051
00:49:27.272 --> 00:49:27.692
Yeah.
1052
00:49:28.153 --> 00:49:29.634
It's I'm not going to let you fail.
1053
00:49:29.714 --> 00:49:34.359
And when you relapse, instead of kicking you out of the program, I'm going to throw my arm around.
1054
00:49:34.399 --> 00:49:35.800
I'm going to go, dude, you're a fucking idiot.
1055
00:49:35.861 --> 00:49:36.521
Why'd you do that?
1056
00:49:36.641 --> 00:49:37.222
But it's cool.
1057
00:49:37.462 --> 00:49:38.203
I don't give a shit.
1058
00:49:38.263 --> 00:49:40.185
Let's get back on the horse and keep going again.
1059
00:49:40.485 --> 00:49:40.866
Yeah.
1060
00:49:40.926 --> 00:49:47.712
Like we were talking about before the show, the best thing that comes to mind is that you're fighting from the same corner that they're in.
1061
00:49:49.249 --> 00:49:58.081
And I think that's a really – it's simple, but it's also profound when you compare it against how the traditional methods are done.
1062
00:49:58.822 --> 00:50:01.286
Where do you find these coaches?
1063
00:50:01.466 --> 00:50:03.969
I mean, are these all people just wanting to help?
1064
00:50:03.989 --> 00:50:04.470
Yeah.
1065
00:50:04.630 --> 00:50:07.593
A lot of it is people wanting to help, but now we've created careers.
1066
00:50:07.653 --> 00:50:10.155
I mean, they're all full-time employees of our company.
1067
00:50:10.275 --> 00:50:16.761
Rich and I always say our secret power is we know a lot of fuck-ups that used to be drug addicts and alcoholic that have gotten their shit together.
1068
00:50:16.901 --> 00:50:18.382
You can turn that into a superpower.
1069
00:50:18.402 --> 00:50:19.824
I hope everyone's listening.
1070
00:50:19.864 --> 00:50:21.245
You can turn anything into a superpower.
1071
00:50:21.285 --> 00:50:21.745
Absolutely.
1072
00:50:22.866 --> 00:50:28.389
The other cool thing about it is, is we not only have individual coaches like me, we have family coaches.
1073
00:50:28.749 --> 00:50:37.193
So now that guy whose kid is struggling with addiction and he's never going to talk to anyone, I'm going to give him another dad that had a kid that struggled.
1074
00:50:37.754 --> 00:50:38.774
I'll give you a great story.
1075
00:50:38.834 --> 00:50:41.175
My COO is a lady named Julie Smith.
1076
00:50:41.215 --> 00:50:43.717
She's a clinical social worker by training, which is a therapist.
1077
00:50:43.737 --> 00:50:44.317
She's awesome.
1078
00:50:46.420 --> 00:50:47.682
She knows how to do therapy.
1079
00:50:47.722 --> 00:50:48.804
She's been to therapy.
1080
00:50:48.824 --> 00:50:49.345
She's great.
1081
00:50:49.605 --> 00:50:50.447
She has five kids.
1082
00:50:50.527 --> 00:50:51.849
One of her kids started struggling.
1083
00:50:53.075 --> 00:50:55.197
all of her friends were like, well, you're a therapist.
1084
00:50:55.237 --> 00:50:56.078
Just go to therapy.
1085
00:50:56.258 --> 00:51:01.582
And she's like, I already know what, I know what to say to myself and I know what a therapist is going to say to me.
1086
00:51:01.742 --> 00:51:02.483
I don't need that.
1087
00:51:03.023 --> 00:51:16.374
I need to talk to another mom that knows what it's like to be looking at their phone on live 360 or whatever it is at two in the morning, figuring out where my kid is and what the fuck she did about it to get herself better.
1088
00:51:17.235 --> 00:51:18.896
That's the beauty of this program.
1089
00:51:19.156 --> 00:51:19.737
So, yeah,
1090
00:51:20.317 --> 00:51:21.498
Now, let's go back.
1091
00:51:21.858 --> 00:51:23.920
You come to me, Hamilton, I'm struggling.
1092
00:51:24.901 --> 00:51:26.402
My wife is pissed off at me.
1093
00:51:26.422 --> 00:51:29.084
I can't go to treatment, dude.
1094
00:51:29.104 --> 00:51:30.205
I can't leave my job.
1095
00:51:30.385 --> 00:51:32.266
And I'll be really honest with you, Hamilton.
1096
00:51:32.767 --> 00:51:34.488
I don't even know if I want to quit drinking.
1097
00:51:35.489 --> 00:51:39.592
Our response to that is going to be like, well, first of all, no one fucking told you you had to go to treatment.
1098
00:51:39.632 --> 00:51:41.993
And second of all, no one told you you had to quit drinking.
1099
00:51:42.434 --> 00:51:43.375
Would you talk to me then?
1100
00:51:43.395 --> 00:51:43.895
Yeah.
1101
00:51:44.365 --> 00:51:46.446
Of course, of course.
1102
00:51:46.786 --> 00:51:52.069
Now, we're gonna play around, we're gonna work together and there's very scientific ways we do this.
1103
00:51:52.169 --> 00:51:55.250
It's called motivational interviewing and positive psychology.
1104
00:51:55.890 --> 00:51:57.431
I'm gonna get you engaged.
1105
00:51:57.811 --> 00:52:01.033
I don't care if you wanna talk about alcohol, we'll talk about whatever you wanna talk about.
1106
00:52:01.873 --> 00:52:15.901
I will get you to treatment if you need treatment, but we're going to do it together and see now when you go to treatment, now you've bought into this is what I need because you had a hand in the process instead of me going to your wife and saying, you're looking a little fat.
1107
00:52:15.941 --> 00:52:16.882
You need to go to the gym.
1108
00:52:17.562 --> 00:52:18.203
See the difference?
1109
00:52:18.263 --> 00:52:18.663
Yeah.
1110
00:52:19.023 --> 00:52:24.106
It's somebody told me this the other day, this kid that I met and I was like blown away.
1111
00:52:24.146 --> 00:52:27.308
He goes, you've figured out how to monetize human connection.
1112
00:52:28.329 --> 00:52:30.290
And that's really what we're doing where it's,
1113
00:52:32.085 --> 00:52:36.327
And I know I'm going on a tangent here, but I got to tell you something really interesting that plays into this.
1114
00:52:36.407 --> 00:52:39.029
Have you ever heard about the rat study when it comes to addiction?
1115
00:52:39.229 --> 00:52:39.409
Yeah.
1116
00:52:39.429 --> 00:52:42.410
Well, wait, no, I've heard a couple of different rat studies.
1117
00:52:42.570 --> 00:52:43.731
Which one are you talking about?
1118
00:52:43.751 --> 00:52:47.553
So years and years ago, some psychologist said, I'm going to do a study on addiction.
1119
00:52:47.673 --> 00:52:48.693
He took 100 rats.
1120
00:52:48.994 --> 00:52:54.656
He put each rat in its own cage with a bottle of water and a bottle of cocaine water.
1121
00:52:54.676 --> 00:52:57.398
OK, what do you think the outcome was?
1122
00:52:59.763 --> 00:53:01.544
What kind of outcome?
1123
00:53:01.604 --> 00:53:03.846
The rats with the cocaine water wanted more water.
1124
00:53:03.866 --> 00:53:04.226
No, no, no.
1125
00:53:04.246 --> 00:53:05.227
They had both in their cage.
1126
00:53:05.247 --> 00:53:05.927
Oh, they had both in their cage.
1127
00:53:05.947 --> 00:53:06.468
So what do you think?
1128
00:53:06.488 --> 00:53:07.568
Which one do you think they drank?
1129
00:53:07.708 --> 00:53:08.269
The cocaine water.
1130
00:53:08.369 --> 00:53:10.430
Everyone drank the cocaine water until they died.
1131
00:53:10.610 --> 00:53:11.131
Every one of them.
1132
00:53:11.151 --> 00:53:11.311
Yeah.
1133
00:53:12.503 --> 00:53:16.646
And to be quite honest, I don't know what the fuck he was trying to prove, but that was the study.
1134
00:53:17.046 --> 00:53:21.069
So about 20 years later, another psychologist came on and said, we need to do a different study.
1135
00:53:21.109 --> 00:53:22.570
So he had a big cage.
1136
00:53:23.471 --> 00:53:31.777
He put all the rats in the same cage, but he put cheese wheel cheese and wheels for them to run on and all kinds of things for them to do.
1137
00:53:32.297 --> 00:53:34.299
And he put the cocaine water in the regular water.
1138
00:53:35.079 --> 00:53:37.541
No rat drank the cocaine water.
1139
00:53:38.302 --> 00:53:39.403
They all drank the regular water.
1140
00:53:40.307 --> 00:53:43.592
I mean, they dabbled in it, but they didn't get addicted to the cocaine water.
1141
00:53:44.012 --> 00:53:46.196
The opposite of addiction is actually community.
1142
00:53:46.937 --> 00:53:47.618
That proves that.
1143
00:53:48.814 --> 00:53:49.494
Interesting.
1144
00:53:49.614 --> 00:53:50.234
Yeah.
1145
00:53:50.594 --> 00:53:52.235
That's why isolation is so bad.
1146
00:53:52.595 --> 00:53:58.336
I'm sitting here listening to you, and just a few weeks ago, I interviewed Dr. Robert Cialdini.
1147
00:53:58.356 --> 00:53:59.937
Do you know who he is if you read that book?
1148
00:54:00.537 --> 00:54:10.179
So that book right there is Influence the Psychology of Persuasion, and he's got four fundamental pillars that he uses, and he's renowned for this work.
1149
00:54:10.660 --> 00:54:12.000
And I'm listening to you talk.
1150
00:54:12.860 --> 00:54:21.968
And I'm seeing now and I'm connecting these dots with the same principle because he's very steadfast in that there's a moral responsibility here.
1151
00:54:22.408 --> 00:54:24.910
You know, it's not just influencing people to manipulate them.
1152
00:54:24.950 --> 00:54:26.471
It's influencing people to help them.
1153
00:54:28.866 --> 00:54:37.209
And the strategies that you're talking about in these contexts, like you just mentioned community and, you know, and meeting people where they are.
1154
00:54:37.229 --> 00:54:37.309
Yep.
1155
00:54:37.710 --> 00:54:40.691
And essentially what you're saying is be likable, right?
1156
00:54:40.711 --> 00:54:41.291
Get along.
1157
00:54:41.391 --> 00:54:46.353
I mean, this is, these are all kind of woven into some of the strategies that you presented to me.
1158
00:54:46.933 --> 00:54:52.996
And it falls dangerously close to, you know, Dr. Robert Cialdini's work, right?
1159
00:54:54.037 --> 00:54:57.640
in the psychology of influence and persuasion.
1160
00:54:57.820 --> 00:54:59.401
It is 100% what it is.
1161
00:54:59.481 --> 00:55:01.583
Yeah, that's really interesting.
1162
00:55:01.984 --> 00:55:05.567
I mean, I didn't want to get sober also because I didn't think I'd be cool.
1163
00:55:06.488 --> 00:55:08.510
I thought I would lose the mojo.
1164
00:55:08.970 --> 00:55:10.972
I thought I wouldn't be accepted anymore.
1165
00:55:10.992 --> 00:55:11.752
But now...
1166
00:55:13.983 --> 00:55:18.606
When you see someone like me, I'm crazier than I was when I was drinking.
1167
00:55:18.906 --> 00:55:19.186
I am.
1168
00:55:19.326 --> 00:55:22.068
I mean, you've seen my social media bullshit that my daughter does.
1169
00:55:22.529 --> 00:55:22.969
I don't.
1170
00:55:23.609 --> 00:55:24.570
I'm very colorful.
1171
00:55:24.650 --> 00:55:25.210
I'm this and that.
1172
00:55:25.230 --> 00:55:30.214
When you see somebody like me or like you that doesn't drink anymore, you're like, wow, that guy's got his shit together.
1173
00:55:30.234 --> 00:55:31.034
He's in great shape.
1174
00:55:31.074 --> 00:55:32.875
He still looks like he's having a lot of fucking fun.
1175
00:55:32.915 --> 00:55:35.037
It's like, oh, wow, that's interesting.
1176
00:55:35.057 --> 00:55:39.600
It takes the scariness out of it, at least to a certain degree.
1177
00:55:40.815 --> 00:55:41.155
Yeah.
1178
00:55:41.616 --> 00:55:42.256
Okay.
1179
00:55:42.496 --> 00:55:46.098
So meeting people where they are, that's a gap that you closed.
1180
00:55:46.779 --> 00:55:49.020
You mentioned family in the traditional gaps.
1181
00:55:49.040 --> 00:55:52.342
How do you bridge that with what you do?
1182
00:55:52.362 --> 00:55:53.963
Do you engage the family?
1183
00:55:54.023 --> 00:55:55.264
Do you— A hundred percent.
1184
00:55:55.344 --> 00:55:55.644
Okay.
1185
00:55:57.665 --> 00:55:59.208
So we sell this to employers.
1186
00:55:59.428 --> 00:56:05.597
So if there's any employer out there, like your addiction is rising your health care costs.
1187
00:56:06.018 --> 00:56:10.105
I mean, look, quite frankly, from the time I was 23 and 22 until 42, I'm going to be
1188
00:56:13.312 --> 00:56:14.533
I worked for big companies.
1189
00:56:14.733 --> 00:56:16.034
I had great health insurance.
1190
00:56:16.214 --> 00:56:17.916
I saw a therapist every month.
1191
00:56:18.636 --> 00:56:20.377
I saw a psychiatrist every week.
1192
00:56:20.818 --> 00:56:24.200
I know backwards, saw a therapist every week, psychiatrist every month.
1193
00:56:24.260 --> 00:56:27.263
I was on tons of medication for anti-anxiety and depression.
1194
00:56:28.123 --> 00:56:34.088
I mean, I had mental health issues because I was always trying to control that crazy brain that was going.
1195
00:56:34.548 --> 00:56:36.029
And I was using drugs and alcohol.
1196
00:56:36.049 --> 00:56:39.972
I went to the doctor all the time because I wasn't healthy because I was putting poison in my body.
1197
00:56:40.112 --> 00:56:42.394
All of those claims were going through my healthcare company.
1198
00:56:42.814 --> 00:56:43.596
And my employer.
1199
00:56:44.216 --> 00:56:45.358
So you have these people.
1200
00:56:46.059 --> 00:56:50.426
Most people that enroll into U-Turn Health is either one or two things.
1201
00:56:51.547 --> 00:56:55.894
One is the family that they have no one to talk to, so they enroll.
1202
00:56:55.954 --> 00:56:56.915
The second is stress.
1203
00:56:58.035 --> 00:56:58.636
Why is that?
1204
00:56:58.836 --> 00:56:59.937
It's really easy.
1205
00:57:00.757 --> 00:57:02.479
We all wear stress as a badge of honor.
1206
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:03.240
Yes, we do.
1207
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:07.844
We talk about I'm stressed out of my mind and it's like you're a badass because you're stressed.
1208
00:57:07.884 --> 00:57:08.744
We'll talk about that.
1209
00:57:09.165 --> 00:57:18.733
We won't tell you that our daughter has an addiction problem, which is why I'm stressed, or the fact that I'm actually doing crystal meth, which is why I'm so stressed out.
1210
00:57:18.753 --> 00:57:19.694
We won't talk about that.
1211
00:57:19.894 --> 00:57:20.254
Yeah.
1212
00:57:20.334 --> 00:57:20.494
Yeah.
1213
00:57:20.514 --> 00:57:22.735
Because the response is, you know, Hey, how are you doing?
1214
00:57:22.835 --> 00:57:23.695
Oh man, I'm doing all right.
1215
00:57:23.715 --> 00:57:24.755
But a little bit stressed.
1216
00:57:24.775 --> 00:57:28.516
The response is never, I'm doing all right, but you know, I'm, I'm doing meth.
1217
00:57:28.876 --> 00:57:29.336
Yeah, that's right.
1218
00:57:29.816 --> 00:57:30.016
Never.
1219
00:57:30.316 --> 00:57:32.597
You want me to tell you the greatest story ever about this company?
1220
00:57:33.417 --> 00:57:36.637
This one, I'm going to warn you, the hair on your arms is going to stand up.
1221
00:57:36.717 --> 00:57:43.579
So we have a Fortune 500 company we work with and we're very smart, manipulative, influencing about people.
1222
00:57:43.639 --> 00:57:43.919
So we,
1223
00:57:44.059 --> 00:57:50.142
We're never going to do a webinar for one of those companies who drinks 18 beers a night are still grandma's Percocet.
1224
00:57:50.242 --> 00:57:51.042
No one will show up.
1225
00:57:52.123 --> 00:57:54.804
I would show up because I think it would be hilarious, but no one will show up.
1226
00:57:54.944 --> 00:57:58.046
So we did a webinar on who's stressed out at work and at home.
1227
00:57:58.626 --> 00:57:59.686
Everybody comes to the meeting.
1228
00:58:00.207 --> 00:58:04.389
The CFO of that company, after the thing, signed up for a coach.
1229
00:58:05.009 --> 00:58:05.989
She said she was stressed.
1230
00:58:06.590 --> 00:58:07.690
Okay, this is the beauty.
1231
00:58:08.431 --> 00:58:13.133
Five minute, we get her with a coach who's another 50-year-old mom, family, blah, blah, blah.
1232
00:58:14.256 --> 00:58:15.616
We didn't know why she was stressed.
1233
00:58:16.357 --> 00:58:19.817
Five minutes into the conversation, this is where the trust comes in.
1234
00:58:19.858 --> 00:58:20.858
These ladies are alike.
1235
00:58:20.918 --> 00:58:21.798
They've all dealt with it.
1236
00:58:21.838 --> 00:58:24.919
She looks at her coach and says, do you want to know why I'm stressed?
1237
00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:26.399
Well, the coach is like, of course.
1238
00:58:27.159 --> 00:58:38.943
She goes, I have an 18-year-old daughter who went to treatment for fentanyl addiction, and she just left against medical advice, and she's living on the streets of Cleveland, Ohio.
1239
00:58:40.003 --> 00:58:40.283
Okay.
1240
00:58:41.630 --> 00:58:43.331
That mom has every right to be stressed.
1241
00:58:43.551 --> 00:58:44.992
She doesn't have a clinical issue.
1242
00:58:45.052 --> 00:58:48.895
A clinician is going to have to diagnose her with something.
1243
00:58:49.375 --> 00:58:50.456
There's nothing to diagnose.
1244
00:58:50.596 --> 00:58:53.518
She is stressed out from a very abnormal situation.
1245
00:58:53.578 --> 00:58:55.219
So our coach starts working with her.
1246
00:58:55.279 --> 00:58:56.820
We have a whole stress program.
1247
00:58:57.341 --> 00:59:00.303
But the coach said, can we have someone reach out to your daughter?
1248
00:59:00.743 --> 00:59:01.544
And she said, sure.
1249
00:59:02.024 --> 00:59:04.606
Well, first of all, I don't even need that mom's permission.
1250
00:59:04.706 --> 00:59:08.188
The way we built this is we are a non-clinical platform.
1251
00:59:08.268 --> 00:59:09.449
So I don't need your permission.
1252
00:59:10.330 --> 00:59:10.830
Oh, OK.
1253
00:59:10.850 --> 00:59:15.774
So not the benefits of the of the the clinic side of things, but also not the restrictions.
1254
00:59:15.974 --> 00:59:16.774
That's exactly right.
1255
00:59:17.035 --> 00:59:22.138
So then we have a 22 year old female coach that used to be addicted to fentanyl who's in recovery.
1256
00:59:22.299 --> 00:59:24.180
She called the mom gave her a number.
1257
00:59:24.240 --> 00:59:31.505
She calls the 18 year old completely unannounced, said, hey, your mom gave me your number, started talking to her, did what we do.
1258
00:59:32.366 --> 00:59:33.307
Now, this is amazing.
1259
00:59:33.347 --> 00:59:38.713
The 18 year old was receptive to the conversation, but she was very honest and said, look, I do.
1260
00:59:38.993 --> 00:59:39.954
I'm not ready to quit.
1261
00:59:40.234 --> 00:59:40.795
I'm just not.
1262
00:59:40.955 --> 00:59:42.176
But I appreciate you calling me.
1263
00:59:42.837 --> 00:59:44.058
So our coaches are smart.
1264
00:59:44.578 --> 00:59:46.881
The most important thing is keep that girl engaged.
1265
00:59:47.021 --> 00:59:48.663
So we go, all right, here's what we're going to do.
1266
00:59:49.163 --> 00:59:50.824
Will you at least do me a favor?
1267
00:59:50.924 --> 00:59:54.126
I don't care if you keep using drugs, which, by the way, guys, that's not true.
1268
00:59:54.186 --> 00:59:55.007
But you say that.
1269
00:59:55.747 --> 00:59:56.948
And she goes, show.
1270
00:59:57.088 --> 00:59:58.089
Give me your location.
1271
00:59:58.149 --> 00:59:58.809
So she did.
1272
00:59:58.849 --> 01:00:00.530
She found a Walgreens right around the corner.
1273
01:00:00.550 --> 01:00:01.931
She goes, I'm going to Venmo you money.
1274
01:00:01.951 --> 01:00:05.534
I want you to go in and I want you to get Narcan, which you can get for free.
1275
01:00:05.574 --> 01:00:06.514
Now, do you know what Narcan is?
1276
01:00:06.554 --> 01:00:06.714
No.
1277
01:00:07.135 --> 01:00:10.277
Narcan is if you overdose, you you snort.
1278
01:00:10.317 --> 01:00:11.678
That's what they save people with.
1279
01:00:11.698 --> 01:00:14.760
When you overdose, they shoot it up your nose and it brings you back to life.
1280
01:00:15.200 --> 01:00:15.380
OK, OK.
1281
01:00:15.600 --> 01:00:18.702
So now if that kid overdoses, she's going to be able to be saved.
1282
01:00:18.782 --> 01:00:21.144
And she said, I also want you to buy testing strips.
1283
01:00:21.784 --> 01:00:22.885
So you probably don't know this.
1284
01:00:23.045 --> 01:00:28.288
Now, if you and I are going to go to a rave and do ecstasy, I would say, let's go to Walgreens, get a testing kit.
1285
01:00:28.328 --> 01:00:32.070
We will test that drug to make sure there's not fentanyl in it and we won't overdose.
1286
01:00:33.351 --> 01:00:34.072
The girl agrees.
1287
01:00:35.138 --> 01:00:36.919
So now think about this.
1288
01:00:37.439 --> 01:00:41.901
If the traditional approach, the traditional approach, we wouldn't have reached out to the girl because we couldn't.
1289
01:00:42.402 --> 01:00:48.745
The traditional approach, when she said she still was going to do drugs, we would be very sweet and say, well, when you're ready, come back and see me.
1290
01:00:49.245 --> 01:00:50.626
So now we have this girl.
1291
01:00:50.686 --> 01:00:52.767
She's still going to do drugs, but we have her safe.
1292
01:00:52.847 --> 01:00:54.688
She's going to live if she overdoses.
1293
01:00:55.008 --> 01:00:58.169
And we're going to make sure she doesn't overdose because she's going to test her drugs.
1294
01:00:58.669 --> 01:00:59.230
She agrees.
1295
01:00:59.990 --> 01:01:01.810
Now, text the family coach.
1296
01:01:02.130 --> 01:01:04.851
She goes back to the mom and says, we got your kid.
1297
01:01:05.131 --> 01:01:05.811
She's safe.
1298
01:01:06.371 --> 01:01:08.672
It's not perfect, but she's not going to die.
1299
01:01:08.812 --> 01:01:10.452
So the mom starts to relieve her stress.
1300
01:01:10.472 --> 01:01:12.252
So this is the beauty of U-Turn Health.
1301
01:01:12.973 --> 01:01:15.233
Our coach kept her on the phone and said, what do you like to do?
1302
01:01:15.273 --> 01:01:17.013
And she goes, well, I want to be a makeup artist.
1303
01:01:17.053 --> 01:01:18.174
I really like doing makeup.
1304
01:01:18.214 --> 01:01:20.394
So our coach lied and said, I love makeup, too.
1305
01:01:20.454 --> 01:01:21.614
Will you teach me tips?
1306
01:01:22.094 --> 01:01:22.695
She goes, sure.
1307
01:01:23.075 --> 01:01:26.715
She goes, all right, why don't we set up a Zoom call twice a week and you can show me makeup?
1308
01:01:26.735 --> 01:01:27.816
We'll do makeup together.
1309
01:01:28.476 --> 01:01:29.176
The girl's like, sure.
1310
01:01:30.130 --> 01:01:32.912
Remember, our job is to keep her engaged.
1311
01:01:33.432 --> 01:01:34.633
So this happens all the time.
1312
01:01:34.653 --> 01:01:35.694
This is fascinating.
1313
01:01:35.734 --> 01:01:37.695
So they're doing this weeks at a time.
1314
01:01:37.755 --> 01:01:39.116
And they get to the third week.
1315
01:01:39.756 --> 01:01:43.218
And finally, the girl, the 18-year-old, put the brush down.
1316
01:01:43.318 --> 01:01:45.900
And she looked at our coach and said, how are you sober?
1317
01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:46.941
You're way too cool.
1318
01:01:47.821 --> 01:01:49.943
She brought the conversation back to addiction.
1319
01:01:50.063 --> 01:01:52.924
And she also admitted and said, let me tell you what happened.
1320
01:01:53.365 --> 01:01:58.268
When I was 17, a therapist told my mom if I didn't agree to get sober, to kick me out of the house.
1321
01:01:59.830 --> 01:02:00.791
So we called the mom.
1322
01:02:01.171 --> 01:02:05.093
We got the mom and the daughter on a Zoom call with both the family coach and her coach.
1323
01:02:05.514 --> 01:02:07.675
The mom agreed to let her move back into the house.
1324
01:02:07.735 --> 01:02:11.938
Within 30 days, we had that kid in treatment, and she's been sober for the last two years.
1325
01:02:12.618 --> 01:02:13.999
That's how U-Turn Health works.
1326
01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:15.820
That's not always perfect.
1327
01:02:16.441 --> 01:02:22.665
It doesn't always happen that way, but that is the greatest fucking story because there's a really good chance that kid would be dead.
1328
01:02:23.570 --> 01:02:31.356
What's coming up for me is a big difference between U-turn and traditional is do whatever it takes.
1329
01:02:31.917 --> 01:02:32.477
Whatever it takes.
1330
01:02:32.517 --> 01:02:40.704
Do whatever it takes, which I'd love to say and I'd love to think that traditional intervention would have that mindset, but they don't.
1331
01:02:40.884 --> 01:02:41.825
They're getting better.
1332
01:02:41.985 --> 01:02:44.487
And again, I've got to keep saying this.
1333
01:02:44.968 --> 01:02:50.413
I don't want anyone on this podcast to think, like, I got sober through the 12-step program.
1334
01:02:50.653 --> 01:02:52.555
I got sober through traditional treatment.
1335
01:02:52.675 --> 01:02:53.195
It works.
1336
01:02:53.375 --> 01:02:53.896
I love it.
1337
01:02:53.976 --> 01:02:54.817
They do great work.
1338
01:02:54.937 --> 01:02:57.539
And they are trying to more incorporate this in.
1339
01:02:58.640 --> 01:03:07.428
But I will throw them under the bus a little bit and tell you, and I'm not going to say who they are, but when we first started this company, our first customers were treatment centers.
1340
01:03:09.406 --> 01:03:10.667
So let me explain how it works.
1341
01:03:11.528 --> 01:03:14.170
You decided to go to an inpatient treatment.
1342
01:03:14.330 --> 01:03:17.533
The day you stepped foot in, we reached out to your family.
1343
01:03:17.733 --> 01:03:18.874
So think about my story.
1344
01:03:18.954 --> 01:03:24.759
When I stepped into treatment, another wife would have reached out to my wife and listened to her.
1345
01:03:24.959 --> 01:03:27.021
And my wife would have ripped me apart.
1346
01:03:27.101 --> 01:03:28.102
He's an asshole.
1347
01:03:28.542 --> 01:03:29.503
He won't stop drinking.
1348
01:03:29.523 --> 01:03:30.504
They would have just listened.
1349
01:03:30.624 --> 01:03:31.425
I'm there for you.
1350
01:03:31.485 --> 01:03:32.966
You can't talk to him for 12 weeks.
1351
01:03:33.306 --> 01:03:36.049
But then they would have already also started educating her.
1352
01:03:36.409 --> 01:03:38.311
Let me tell you about the neurobiology of addiction.
1353
01:03:38.511 --> 01:03:40.212
What you want, he can't do.
1354
01:03:40.252 --> 01:03:41.233
You got to understand that.
1355
01:03:41.273 --> 01:03:44.316
So when I got out, she would have been ready for me.
1356
01:03:44.956 --> 01:03:49.600
The day I get out of treatment, six weeks later, I am met with another Hamilton.
1357
01:03:49.680 --> 01:03:51.422
So Hamilton gets another Hamilton.
1358
01:03:51.602 --> 01:03:55.145
We would stay with both Hamilton and his family for six months.
1359
01:03:56.186 --> 01:04:00.749
Okay, we did this for three of the largest treatment centers in this country.
1360
01:04:01.370 --> 01:04:03.372
A year later, they all three fired us.
1361
01:04:04.533 --> 01:04:05.393
Why do you think they did?
1362
01:04:05.533 --> 01:04:06.694
They started doing it themselves.
1363
01:04:07.074 --> 01:04:08.455
No, that's a really good answer.
1364
01:04:09.735 --> 01:04:12.677
They had less people coming back to treatment.
1365
01:04:14.418 --> 01:04:15.818
I wish it was the first answer.
1366
01:04:15.878 --> 01:04:17.019
I wish it was the first two.
1367
01:04:17.359 --> 01:04:19.180
Well, I would have still pissed me off, but that's okay.
1368
01:04:19.740 --> 01:04:23.782
But no, their model is, and it's not their fault.
1369
01:04:24.002 --> 01:04:25.483
It's the model that we've created.
1370
01:04:25.503 --> 01:04:28.304
This is the way we've always done it.
1371
01:04:28.444 --> 01:04:32.186
60% of people relapse and they need treatment again, so we need to get them back into treatment.
1372
01:04:32.266 --> 01:04:33.307
Instead of thinking...
1373
01:04:33.987 --> 01:04:37.029
Well, they're getting less people coming back to treatment, which is a good thing.
1374
01:04:37.069 --> 01:04:38.731
It becomes the money situation.
1375
01:04:38.771 --> 01:04:41.573
Now, that's very easily solved by the payers.
1376
01:04:41.993 --> 01:04:43.314
It's called value-based care.
1377
01:04:43.394 --> 01:04:49.939
So if I go to this treatment center and I stay sober for a year, that treatment center gets $50,000 instead of $25,000.
1378
01:04:50.600 --> 01:04:54.743
If I have to go back to treatment twice, now they get $20,000 every time.
1379
01:04:54.763 --> 01:04:55.583
Do you see what I'm saying?
1380
01:04:55.903 --> 01:04:58.105
It's just make the incentive.
1381
01:04:58.205 --> 01:05:01.968
The healthier I get people and the less they need you, the more money you make.
1382
01:05:02.068 --> 01:05:03.089
And that solves the issue.
1383
01:05:05.451 --> 01:05:06.071
fascinating.
1384
01:05:06.191 --> 01:05:07.152
It is crazy, right?
1385
01:05:07.252 --> 01:05:13.374
And are you pioneering this or was this a model before you entered the space?
1386
01:05:13.654 --> 01:05:14.474
Like, yeah.
1387
01:05:14.494 --> 01:05:21.077
So my co-founder, Rich Jones was a clinical psychologist who had been sober for 20 years from opioid addiction.
1388
01:05:21.097 --> 01:05:26.199
And he started working in the real traditional space and he was doing more work in the mental health side.
1389
01:05:26.919 --> 01:05:30.340
And there is a model for severe and persistent mental illness.
1390
01:05:30.400 --> 01:05:32.461
It's called assertive, um,
1391
01:05:33.181 --> 01:05:35.022
It's ACT, assertive community treatment.
1392
01:05:35.162 --> 01:05:40.706
And it's this model that if you're really, really sick from mental illness, we're not going to let you fail.
1393
01:05:41.126 --> 01:05:42.567
And so we started doing that work.
1394
01:05:42.607 --> 01:05:46.649
He was working up in Pennsylvania for a hospital system through Pennsylvania Medicaid.
1395
01:05:47.310 --> 01:05:50.652
And he asked his bosses, he said, hey, I'm an addict at heart.
1396
01:05:50.732 --> 01:05:51.772
I've done this for two years.
1397
01:05:51.832 --> 01:05:54.094
I love the work, but can I work on the addiction side?
1398
01:05:54.114 --> 01:05:54.934
They said, sure.
1399
01:05:55.395 --> 01:05:57.316
So he started trying to do the same thing.
1400
01:05:57.796 --> 01:06:01.462
And they literally had to pull him out and say, you can't, you're not allowed to do that for addicts.
1401
01:06:01.822 --> 01:06:02.944
It's a moral failure.
1402
01:06:03.024 --> 01:06:04.105
They did it to themselves.
1403
01:06:04.186 --> 01:06:07.510
But Josh, really, the issue was you couldn't, they couldn't get paid for it.
1404
01:06:07.651 --> 01:06:08.372
No one would pay him.
1405
01:06:08.572 --> 01:06:08.772
Sure.
1406
01:06:09.213 --> 01:06:10.134
So Ritz said...
1407
01:06:11.130 --> 01:06:12.011
Well, this sucks.
1408
01:06:12.532 --> 01:06:16.596
He created a nonprofit in South Carolina called Faces and Voices of Recovery.
1409
01:06:16.716 --> 01:06:19.199
And he created that model I told you about, Ace.
1410
01:06:19.539 --> 01:06:20.520
So that's how it started.
1411
01:06:20.921 --> 01:06:24.245
And Rich was doing phenomenal work in the state of South Carolina.
1412
01:06:24.285 --> 01:06:27.228
But nonprofits are only as big as the region you're in.
1413
01:06:27.528 --> 01:06:28.569
And I met him.
1414
01:06:29.390 --> 01:06:31.631
And we both I was working for another company at the time.
1415
01:06:31.671 --> 01:06:35.754
And we said, look, we should be able to commercialize this and get it to more people.
1416
01:06:36.374 --> 01:06:37.915
So we brought in technology.
1417
01:06:38.355 --> 01:06:46.519
We brought in the model and we created U-Turn Health about four and a half years ago and said, look, 75 percent of people that struggle with addiction have what?
1418
01:06:46.700 --> 01:06:47.060
Jobs.
1419
01:06:47.600 --> 01:06:51.922
I mean, there are homeless people on the street struggling with this, but most people go to work.
1420
01:06:52.583 --> 01:06:58.405
And so the idea is, is how do you go to the employers and save them money by treating this earlier?
1421
01:06:58.646 --> 01:07:02.648
And ultimately, we'll get the payers on our side, which is what we've done.
1422
01:07:02.708 --> 01:07:14.373
We now, about eight months ago, we signed a contract with one of the largest payers in this country that got what we're doing and said, we want to pay you for doing that.
1423
01:07:14.654 --> 01:07:14.914
Hmm.
1424
01:07:15.594 --> 01:07:22.377
And yes, they do it because they care, but they also do it, quite frankly, like most insurance companies do, because they're going to save money.
1425
01:07:22.697 --> 01:07:22.937
Sure.
1426
01:07:22.977 --> 01:07:24.557
Because if I can get Hamilton...
1427
01:07:25.438 --> 01:07:26.838
So, Josh, here's the funny story.
1428
01:07:27.178 --> 01:07:30.200
I told you I knew I had a problem, and I wanted help.
1429
01:07:30.760 --> 01:07:32.540
I just didn't want the help they were giving me.
1430
01:07:33.201 --> 01:07:34.061
That's the secret.
1431
01:07:34.121 --> 01:07:35.161
95% of people that don't want help...
1432
01:07:37.102 --> 01:07:39.485
the traditional way, it doesn't mean that they don't want help.
1433
01:07:39.565 --> 01:07:40.646
Now, there are some of them.
1434
01:07:40.686 --> 01:07:41.387
There are some of them.
1435
01:07:41.947 --> 01:07:43.489
And I get asked this question all the time.
1436
01:07:43.549 --> 01:07:45.411
How do you help someone that doesn't want help?
1437
01:07:45.491 --> 01:07:47.073
And I used to bullshit my way through it.
1438
01:07:47.113 --> 01:07:48.314
It's quite it's very simple.
1439
01:07:48.374 --> 01:07:48.755
You don't.
1440
01:07:49.595 --> 01:07:53.720
If you don't give a shit, if you live or die and you're really happy using drugs and alcohol, you're not.
1441
01:07:55.097 --> 01:07:58.518
There's not much I can do about it, but most people want help.
1442
01:07:58.958 --> 01:08:02.318
They just want to, they don't want the help you're trying to give them.
1443
01:08:02.478 --> 01:08:09.000
And so that's where the model becomes, then you give them whatever they need to get them started and we'll figure it out as we go down the line.
1444
01:08:09.020 --> 01:08:09.160
Yeah.
1445
01:08:09.180 --> 01:08:12.200
Because there's no bridge to the, to the fear factor of it.
1446
01:08:12.340 --> 01:08:14.181
It's, this is what my life is like now.
1447
01:08:14.221 --> 01:08:21.422
And this is the feeling that I get from all of the things that I do that maybe aren't even healthy for me, but I understand it's a problem to just don't do it.
1448
01:08:21.602 --> 01:08:21.802
Right.
1449
01:08:22.242 --> 01:08:23.523
So let me ask you a question.
1450
01:08:25.343 --> 01:08:26.404
I know you love your family.
1451
01:08:26.444 --> 01:08:28.405
I know you love your wife and I know you love your kids.
1452
01:08:28.445 --> 01:08:30.526
That's that's so take that off the table.
1453
01:08:30.766 --> 01:08:34.368
Outside of that, what is something that you absolutely love doing?
1454
01:08:34.848 --> 01:08:36.409
I love having conversations like this.
1455
01:08:36.669 --> 01:08:37.649
I love having intimate.
1456
01:08:37.669 --> 01:08:38.850
I hate small talk.
1457
01:08:38.870 --> 01:08:43.812
I love sitting down with people and having deep discussions about anything I'm interested in.
1458
01:08:43.892 --> 01:08:46.413
And if somebody came to you today, well, you also like to read.
1459
01:08:46.453 --> 01:08:47.514
You love to read.
1460
01:08:47.554 --> 01:08:48.014
You love to read.
1461
01:08:48.034 --> 01:08:49.635
Let's use that one because that's an easier one.
1462
01:08:49.795 --> 01:08:49.895
OK.
1463
01:08:50.275 --> 01:08:53.557
If I came to you today and said, Josh, you can never read again.
1464
01:08:54.607 --> 01:08:55.128
Starting now.
1465
01:08:56.309 --> 01:08:57.430
And it's destroying your life.
1466
01:08:57.490 --> 01:08:58.851
Your wife fucking hates it.
1467
01:08:59.012 --> 01:09:01.374
Everyone around you thinks you're an idiot because you read too much.
1468
01:09:01.614 --> 01:09:02.896
You have to stop reading right now.
1469
01:09:03.476 --> 01:09:04.978
What kind of stress does that bring you?
1470
01:09:05.058 --> 01:09:06.039
I can feel it already.
1471
01:09:06.079 --> 01:09:06.960
Like right now, I don't like it.
1472
01:09:06.980 --> 01:09:07.320
I hate it.
1473
01:09:07.340 --> 01:09:07.681
That's it.
1474
01:09:07.701 --> 01:09:10.063
You're taking away the best friends you've ever had.
1475
01:09:10.083 --> 01:09:10.423
Yeah.
1476
01:09:10.443 --> 01:09:11.885
I tell everyone to go fuck themselves.
1477
01:09:11.965 --> 01:09:13.747
That's exactly what people tell them.
1478
01:09:14.946 --> 01:09:16.847
That, that, that, that's the secret.
1479
01:09:17.487 --> 01:09:17.768
Okay.
1480
01:09:18.908 --> 01:09:19.128
Okay.
1481
01:09:19.148 --> 01:09:22.070
So let's, let's move this to a practical place.
1482
01:09:22.390 --> 01:09:23.331
I want to ask two questions.
1483
01:09:23.351 --> 01:09:24.652
I'm going to ask one first of all.
1484
01:09:24.672 --> 01:09:26.633
We're going to go through that and then I'll ask another one.
1485
01:09:26.653 --> 01:09:26.753
Okay.
1486
01:09:27.333 --> 01:09:36.698
So if there's an executive or a leader or a manager in an organization and they know that somebody has an issue or a problem.
1487
01:09:36.718 --> 01:09:38.119
Yep.
1488
01:09:38.139 --> 01:09:38.880
Now you said, yeah.
1489
01:09:40.038 --> 01:09:42.161
Just a minute ago, this is a question that you get a lot.
1490
01:09:42.221 --> 01:09:43.402
I'm going to flip it a little bit.
1491
01:09:43.803 --> 01:09:47.368
I'm not going to ask how do they do it.
1492
01:09:47.388 --> 01:09:48.950
I'm going to ask what do they do.
1493
01:09:49.891 --> 01:09:53.475
Well, I'll tell you, they do one or two things today.
1494
01:09:54.657 --> 01:09:55.318
They ignore it.
1495
01:09:56.795 --> 01:10:00.657
They don't do anything, which is probably a lot of those situations.
1496
01:10:01.077 --> 01:10:05.279
But then you've got people that are listening to this that are good people and they want to help and they do that.
1497
01:10:05.820 --> 01:10:10.442
They'll go to them and they'll say, hey, Josh, I know something's going on.
1498
01:10:10.602 --> 01:10:11.423
I love you, buddy.
1499
01:10:11.583 --> 01:10:12.883
I don't want you to ruin your life.
1500
01:10:12.963 --> 01:10:13.504
I don't want you to.
1501
01:10:13.704 --> 01:10:14.904
They say all the right things.
1502
01:10:15.985 --> 01:10:18.626
But the next question is, then what do they do?
1503
01:10:18.986 --> 01:10:19.247
Right.
1504
01:10:19.507 --> 01:10:20.207
And that's that.
1505
01:10:20.547 --> 01:10:20.787
Yeah.
1506
01:10:20.867 --> 01:10:24.649
Well, the answer is it depends on what the organization has for resources.
1507
01:10:24.669 --> 01:10:24.889
Yeah.
1508
01:10:24.929 --> 01:10:25.710
What should they do?
1509
01:10:26.975 --> 01:10:33.678
What they should do is they should buy U-Turn Health and let us do it because that's, I mean, not because it's us or find another solution like us.
1510
01:10:33.798 --> 01:10:39.380
What they would typically do if it's addiction, most companies have an EAP.
1511
01:10:39.780 --> 01:10:41.521
It's called an Employee Assistance Program.
1512
01:10:42.921 --> 01:10:44.322
Almost everyone has an EAP.
1513
01:10:44.342 --> 01:10:48.603
You have them through your payroll company or you pay separately for them or you have it through your insurance company.
1514
01:10:49.063 --> 01:10:50.284
I have Blue Cross Blue Shield.
1515
01:10:50.404 --> 01:10:51.104
I get a message.
1516
01:10:51.164 --> 01:10:52.605
If you're ever struggling, call this number.
1517
01:10:52.625 --> 01:10:52.765
Yeah.
1518
01:10:53.545 --> 01:10:57.389
The problem with an EAP is, and again, no offense to EAPs, they're great.
1519
01:10:57.469 --> 01:10:58.650
They are clinical in nature.
1520
01:10:58.690 --> 01:11:02.073
So when you call in, they need to diagnose you with something, and then they're going to get you.
1521
01:11:02.113 --> 01:11:06.458
Most EAPs will get, as part of your plan, you get three free sessions with a counselor.
1522
01:11:06.978 --> 01:11:10.241
So I'll give you a real-world example of how an EAP works.
1523
01:11:11.324 --> 01:11:15.127
One of the times I told you when my wife told me the last time she was done, I knew it.
1524
01:11:15.388 --> 01:11:18.390
But there was a time before that where she told me and it was close.
1525
01:11:18.910 --> 01:11:21.112
So I called my EAP.
1526
01:11:21.132 --> 01:11:23.734
I literally called them and I said, hey, I'm Hamilton Baden.
1527
01:11:23.754 --> 01:11:24.895
This is my social security number.
1528
01:11:24.915 --> 01:11:25.756
This is my birthday.
1529
01:11:25.776 --> 01:11:27.317
I think I've got a drinking problem.
1530
01:11:27.958 --> 01:11:29.419
Oh, we're so proud of you for calling.
1531
01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:30.160
Thank you so much.
1532
01:11:30.180 --> 01:11:30.980
We're going to help you.
1533
01:11:31.956 --> 01:11:36.060
They look it up and they go, you're in 85260, which is Scottsdale.
1534
01:11:36.080 --> 01:11:39.182
There are three counselors in your area that specialize in this.
1535
01:11:39.223 --> 01:11:40.063
Here are their phone numbers.
1536
01:11:40.123 --> 01:11:40.944
I'm going to text you.
1537
01:11:40.984 --> 01:11:41.745
Have a great day.
1538
01:11:41.785 --> 01:11:42.245
Good luck.
1539
01:11:42.305 --> 01:11:42.946
Hung up the phone.
1540
01:11:44.187 --> 01:11:45.168
Do you think I called them?
1541
01:11:46.229 --> 01:11:46.829
Actually, I did.
1542
01:11:47.009 --> 01:11:47.270
Did you?
1543
01:11:47.330 --> 01:11:47.970
This gets better.
1544
01:11:48.030 --> 01:11:48.311
Yeah.
1545
01:11:48.391 --> 01:11:54.276
So I called all of the counselors and I got my first available appointment, which was a month and a half away.
1546
01:11:55.550 --> 01:11:55.870
What?
1547
01:11:56.270 --> 01:11:59.671
Yeah, usually it takes a while.
1548
01:12:00.512 --> 01:12:02.492
Now the question, did I go to that appointment?
1549
01:12:03.033 --> 01:12:03.613
The answer is no.
1550
01:12:04.353 --> 01:12:10.475
If you give an addict a month and a half, first of all, I had to manipulate myself to figure out I got it figured out.
1551
01:12:10.595 --> 01:12:14.476
Then I had to manipulate my wife, which I was good at doing, that I had it figured out.
1552
01:12:14.976 --> 01:12:17.577
So by the time that appointment came around, I'd already forgotten about it.
1553
01:12:17.617 --> 01:12:19.038
I'd cancel off my calendar.
1554
01:12:19.058 --> 01:12:19.618
I never went.
1555
01:12:19.858 --> 01:12:21.901
Yeah, that is the challenge with EAPs.
1556
01:12:22.081 --> 01:12:22.582
Yeah, of course.
1557
01:12:22.622 --> 01:12:31.335
And it's it's like if somebody was going to go buy something they they wanted and that that person selling it said, great, but you can pick it up in 45 days.
1558
01:12:31.355 --> 01:12:31.675
That's right.
1559
01:12:32.423 --> 01:12:33.303
That's right.
1560
01:12:33.723 --> 01:12:36.264
But it's the clinical part that is the struggle.
1561
01:12:36.464 --> 01:12:41.846
And so in our model, it's... And here, go back to the way we designed this.
1562
01:12:42.406 --> 01:12:45.987
The right way to do this, in my opinion, is, Josh, you work for me.
1563
01:12:46.368 --> 01:12:48.248
I go to you and I go, Josh, I love you.
1564
01:12:48.748 --> 01:12:49.929
I think something's going on.
1565
01:12:50.429 --> 01:12:53.770
I don't need to know about it, but here's what I'm going to tell you.
1566
01:12:53.930 --> 01:12:56.891
Because I love you so much, I'm going to have U-Turn Health reach out to you.
1567
01:12:57.391 --> 01:12:57.891
Done deal.
1568
01:12:58.111 --> 01:12:59.452
Josh doesn't have to do shit.
1569
01:13:00.172 --> 01:13:03.116
Now I'm going to refer you to U-Turn Health.
1570
01:13:03.236 --> 01:13:05.619
I'm going to call U-Turn and say, I got this guy that works for me.
1571
01:13:05.639 --> 01:13:06.399
His name is Josh.
1572
01:13:06.440 --> 01:13:07.000
He's awesome.
1573
01:13:07.180 --> 01:13:09.203
I don't know what's going on, but he's acting differently.
1574
01:13:09.263 --> 01:13:10.144
Something's weird.
1575
01:13:10.925 --> 01:13:11.506
I need you to.
1576
01:13:11.966 --> 01:13:13.928
And now he becomes our responsibility.
1577
01:13:13.968 --> 01:13:15.190
So we're going to start reaching out.
1578
01:13:15.250 --> 01:13:16.131
Now, here's the secret.
1579
01:13:16.652 --> 01:13:17.573
I'm going to text Josh.
1580
01:13:17.593 --> 01:13:18.554
Hey, Josh, I'm Hamilton.
1581
01:13:18.574 --> 01:13:19.495
I'm going to text Josh.
1582
01:13:19.635 --> 01:13:21.857
heard something's going on, just want to check on you, see what's up.
1583
01:13:21.997 --> 01:13:23.318
Josh is not going to respond to me.
1584
01:13:23.698 --> 01:13:25.839
That's that we know that I'm not going to stop.
1585
01:13:26.420 --> 01:13:29.622
And if I have to switch and say, Hey, Josh, I understand you live in Arizona.
1586
01:13:29.642 --> 01:13:34.245
Did you hear the Cardinals just got rid of, um, whatever that little short quarterback was that we had.
1587
01:13:34.686 --> 01:13:36.247
Um, we just got rid of him.
1588
01:13:36.767 --> 01:13:46.394
I am not going to stop because at some point during that month, there will be a moment of vulnerability, or I will say something that resonates with Josh and Josh will respond.
1589
01:13:46.834 --> 01:13:47.795
And that's how it works.
1590
01:13:47.975 --> 01:13:48.275
Yeah.
1591
01:13:48.860 --> 01:13:51.902
It's just it's like I'm not going to give up on you.
1592
01:13:52.022 --> 01:13:53.844
It doesn't matter how I get there.
1593
01:13:54.084 --> 01:13:58.247
I am going to connect with you and I'm going to start you down this road.
1594
01:13:58.507 --> 01:13:59.888
We take away all the fear.
1595
01:14:00.308 --> 01:14:07.353
And so for the leader, the manager, the practical example, it's not what can they do to convince this person?
1596
01:14:07.573 --> 01:14:11.816
It's what steps should they take so they can connect them with the person that can.
1597
01:14:11.977 --> 01:14:12.377
That's right.
1598
01:14:12.957 --> 01:14:15.978
Now, if we're talking about suicide, it's very different.
1599
01:14:16.218 --> 01:14:19.118
Suicide is one that we do everything.
1600
01:14:19.138 --> 01:14:21.539
I was going to ask, do you do that as well?
1601
01:14:21.739 --> 01:14:22.519
Yeah, we do.
1602
01:14:22.719 --> 01:14:24.579
So I call what we do behavioral health.
1603
01:14:24.619 --> 01:14:34.201
So addiction is near and dear to my heart because I'm an addict, but mental health issues, mental illness, PTSD, suicide, all the way down to stress, grief.
1604
01:14:34.281 --> 01:14:37.902
We do a ton of stuff with grief when the family member dies, all of that stuff.
1605
01:14:38.483 --> 01:14:39.845
Suicide, I do.
1606
01:14:39.865 --> 01:14:47.379
I'm not an expert at suicide, but my COO is, and I just saw her do a presentation, and I'll try to sum it up very quickly.
1607
01:14:47.399 --> 01:14:47.920
Wow.
1608
01:14:48.631 --> 01:14:52.874
At the cellular level, us as human beings are meant to survive.
1609
01:14:53.574 --> 01:14:57.976
So when you cut your arm, your blood automatically coagulates, not going to let you bleed out.
1610
01:14:58.036 --> 01:15:00.338
You don't have to wake yourself up after you go to sleep.
1611
01:15:00.358 --> 01:15:03.099
You don't have to make yourself breathe or beat your heart, whatever.
1612
01:15:03.700 --> 01:15:11.664
So if someone ever gets to that point where they are contemplating ending their life, they are trying to override the natural instinct.
1613
01:15:11.704 --> 01:15:12.565
So it's serious.
1614
01:15:14.221 --> 01:15:19.503
And a lot of people think there's a lot of myths that if I bring it up to somebody, I'm going to cause them to go die by suicide.
1615
01:15:19.523 --> 01:15:20.843
That is completely a myth.
1616
01:15:21.703 --> 01:15:31.746
If someone shows you that they're suicidal or asks you or says it to you, you have been called by the universe or God to respond to that person.
1617
01:15:31.846 --> 01:15:38.088
And you need to ask them outright, are you going to harm yourself or are you thinking about hurting yourself?
1618
01:15:38.228 --> 01:15:39.489
You owe that to them.
1619
01:15:39.529 --> 01:15:41.429
The universe is asking you to respond.
1620
01:15:41.449 --> 01:15:42.470
Does that make sense?
1621
01:15:42.870 --> 01:15:43.150
It does.
1622
01:15:43.170 --> 01:15:43.290
Yeah.
1623
01:15:44.190 --> 01:15:46.092
And and then you need to go deeper.
1624
01:15:46.312 --> 01:15:49.294
If Josh says yes, you say, how would you do that?
1625
01:15:49.695 --> 01:15:50.495
How are you going to do that?
1626
01:15:50.836 --> 01:15:57.281
And if he says, oh, because if anybody's really to that point, they've trust me, they've thought through that.
1627
01:15:57.821 --> 01:15:59.562
You need to be able to remove what.
1628
01:15:59.602 --> 01:16:02.825
So just as I have a gun, I'm going to shoot myself.
1629
01:16:02.885 --> 01:16:03.806
Where is the gun?
1630
01:16:04.266 --> 01:16:06.708
You need to actively intervene in that.
1631
01:16:06.768 --> 01:16:08.209
You need to stay with the person.
1632
01:16:08.229 --> 01:16:09.210
You need to call 988.
1633
01:16:09.450 --> 01:16:10.291
Do you know that now?
1634
01:16:10.331 --> 01:16:10.811
There's a 918.
1635
01:16:10.831 --> 01:16:11.492
Yes, I've heard that.
1636
01:16:11.512 --> 01:16:11.672
918.
1637
01:16:11.772 --> 01:16:15.415
one one emergencies, nine, eight, eight suicide hotline all across this country.
1638
01:16:15.955 --> 01:16:17.156
You need to get them to the ER.
1639
01:16:17.196 --> 01:16:20.059
You need to do whatever it takes and do not leave them alone.
1640
01:16:20.719 --> 01:16:23.161
Now, this brings up an interesting point.
1641
01:16:23.201 --> 01:16:26.744
I'll name three people, Robin Williams, Anthony Bourdain.
1642
01:16:27.364 --> 01:16:29.826
And there was a guy named Twitch who was famous on social.
1643
01:16:29.846 --> 01:16:32.789
He was a black guy that was a big social media guy, always laughing.
1644
01:16:32.929 --> 01:16:34.770
All three of those guys died by suicide.
1645
01:16:34.950 --> 01:16:35.911
No one would have guessed it.
1646
01:16:36.472 --> 01:16:37.813
No one would have seen the markers.
1647
01:16:37.833 --> 01:16:38.333
Yeah.
1648
01:16:38.493 --> 01:16:40.114
I also think we need to talk about it.
1649
01:16:40.334 --> 01:16:51.580
I think as a leader in our organizations, we should say, if anybody in this organization is struggling and you've ever thought about harming yourself, I want you to know you can always come and talk to me.
1650
01:16:52.080 --> 01:16:53.661
Because that helps with those people.
1651
01:16:53.681 --> 01:16:55.281
But suicide's a little bit differently.
1652
01:16:55.682 --> 01:16:58.463
When it's addiction or mental health and stuff, get them to us.
1653
01:16:58.543 --> 01:16:59.804
We're immediately going to intervene.
1654
01:16:59.844 --> 01:17:01.324
We're going to get them to coach within 24 hours.
1655
01:17:02.965 --> 01:17:03.925
Again, don't use us.
1656
01:17:04.065 --> 01:17:08.886
Use someone else that does the same thing, which there aren't very many people out there that do that.
1657
01:17:08.966 --> 01:17:12.087
But when it comes to suicide, you need to act and you need to act immediately.
1658
01:17:12.187 --> 01:17:12.427
Yeah.
1659
01:17:12.767 --> 01:17:19.589
And so if you're the person trying to intervene, you got to put your big boy pants on and have these conversations and not let that person off the hook.
1660
01:17:19.849 --> 01:17:20.229
That's right.
1661
01:17:20.289 --> 01:17:21.269
And there's another myth.
1662
01:17:21.409 --> 01:17:25.750
There's another myth that you have to be trained in suicide prevention to be able to talk to someone.
1663
01:17:25.770 --> 01:17:27.771
That was the first thought that came to my head.
1664
01:17:27.851 --> 01:17:28.571
It's also a myth.
1665
01:17:28.591 --> 01:17:29.431
So let me ask you a question.
1666
01:17:29.451 --> 01:17:30.852
Do you have a best friend growing up?
1667
01:17:30.952 --> 01:17:31.112
Yeah.
1668
01:17:31.372 --> 01:17:31.592
All right.
1669
01:17:31.632 --> 01:17:32.292
You still know him?
1670
01:17:32.432 --> 01:17:32.592
Yeah.
1671
01:17:33.813 --> 01:17:38.495
or your kid, if one of those two people came to you and said, dad, I don't think I want to live anymore.
1672
01:17:38.755 --> 01:17:39.336
What would you do?
1673
01:17:39.556 --> 01:17:42.037
The first thing you do is you put your arms around and go, I love you.
1674
01:17:42.097 --> 01:17:42.878
We're going to get through this.
1675
01:17:43.098 --> 01:17:43.678
That's what you do.
1676
01:17:43.838 --> 01:17:44.018
Yeah.
1677
01:17:44.699 --> 01:17:45.619
But you keep them safe.
1678
01:17:45.779 --> 01:17:45.959
Yeah.
1679
01:17:46.339 --> 01:17:50.342
And then you get the experts to come in and help, but stopping or helping, or,
1680
01:17:51.302 --> 01:17:58.607
Or speaking about it, you do not have—you do not—I mean, if that was the case, we would never solve this issue.
1681
01:17:58.727 --> 01:17:58.967
Yeah.
1682
01:17:59.488 --> 01:18:01.169
What about the person you don't know very well?
1683
01:18:01.209 --> 01:18:06.432
The person that maybe it's a co-worker, you've only talked to them a few times, but this happens to come up.
1684
01:18:06.472 --> 01:18:07.873
It's going to be hard, I would say it.
1685
01:18:08.294 --> 01:18:08.534
Yeah.
1686
01:18:08.554 --> 01:18:09.775
Because what happens if you don't?
1687
01:18:09.795 --> 01:18:11.096
Because what happens if you don't?
1688
01:18:11.616 --> 01:18:17.320
I'll give you a really crazy example, and everybody's going to think I'm an egomaniac for saying this, but I don't give a shit because I'm not.
1689
01:18:18.769 --> 01:18:22.370
I had a lady that worked for a lady that worked for me.
1690
01:18:22.470 --> 01:18:24.110
So this lady was too under me.
1691
01:18:24.170 --> 01:18:26.631
This is when I was at the last company.
1692
01:18:26.851 --> 01:18:28.431
I knew nothing about what I know now.
1693
01:18:28.551 --> 01:18:29.851
I had just gotten into recovery.
1694
01:18:29.871 --> 01:18:30.871
I'm sitting in my office.
1695
01:18:30.951 --> 01:18:34.932
She brings the lady in and she goes, I said, what's going on?
1696
01:18:35.132 --> 01:18:37.193
And she goes, I'm just, I'm really depressed.
1697
01:18:37.413 --> 01:18:39.013
I just don't know if I want to be here anymore.
1698
01:18:39.713 --> 01:18:41.754
I had no idea what to do.
1699
01:18:41.774 --> 01:18:45.094
I looked at her and I said, well, we're not going to let that happen.
1700
01:18:45.254 --> 01:18:45.914
We love you.
1701
01:18:46.155 --> 01:18:47.295
Let's go talk to HR.
1702
01:18:47.335 --> 01:18:48.375
Let's get you the help we need.
1703
01:18:50.201 --> 01:18:53.324
Four years later, that kid had a baby and she named him Hamilton.
1704
01:18:54.084 --> 01:18:56.546
It was the greatest thing I've ever seen in my life.
1705
01:18:56.646 --> 01:18:57.727
And I did nothing.
1706
01:18:58.368 --> 01:18:59.268
I did nothing.
1707
01:19:00.109 --> 01:19:01.090
But I cared.
1708
01:19:01.410 --> 01:19:03.632
And I got up and told her, we're not going to let that happen.
1709
01:19:03.652 --> 01:19:04.112
And I helped her.
1710
01:19:04.132 --> 01:19:04.593
That was it.
1711
01:19:05.033 --> 01:19:06.514
And that doesn't make me special.
1712
01:19:06.695 --> 01:19:07.615
Doesn't make me cool.
1713
01:19:07.675 --> 01:19:09.697
It just means I'm a human being that I care about people.
1714
01:19:10.177 --> 01:19:10.498
Yeah.
1715
01:19:10.718 --> 01:19:13.901
You know, and I think that that message is clouded these days.
1716
01:19:15.736 --> 01:19:17.677
I have four pillars that I put everything through.
1717
01:19:17.717 --> 01:19:19.718
It's freedom, presence, impact and love.
1718
01:19:19.738 --> 01:19:24.681
And my audience is tired of me explaining that, but it always comes up in these conversations.
1719
01:19:25.761 --> 01:19:27.702
And I want to bring this one up because impact.
1720
01:19:28.363 --> 01:19:29.984
You never know what you say.
1721
01:19:30.004 --> 01:19:30.944
Never.
1722
01:19:30.964 --> 01:19:34.426
Or how you how what you say will impact someone else.
1723
01:19:34.506 --> 01:19:35.727
Positively or negatively.
1724
01:19:35.767 --> 01:19:37.147
Positively or negatively.
1725
01:19:37.528 --> 01:19:41.610
You know, and the flip side of that coin is everybody is fighting a battle you know nothing about.
1726
01:19:43.026 --> 01:19:48.434
And so when you say that it's your duty to intervene...
1727
01:19:49.868 --> 01:19:50.508
That resonates.
1728
01:19:50.768 --> 01:19:50.989
Yeah.
1729
01:19:51.669 --> 01:19:52.409
Well, think about it.
1730
01:19:52.629 --> 01:19:54.090
Our bodies are meant to survive.
1731
01:19:54.150 --> 01:19:58.913
And if someone wants to override that and they have the balls to tell you, you have to.
1732
01:19:59.013 --> 01:20:00.894
Well, you don't have to do anything, but you should.
1733
01:20:01.294 --> 01:20:02.054
I'll tell you something funny.
1734
01:20:02.074 --> 01:20:04.176
What you just said is everybody's fighting a battle.
1735
01:20:04.216 --> 01:20:13.841
I saw a video the other day and this girl goes, I finally figured out how easy life was when I realized everyone is here for the first fucking time and no one knows what the fuck to do.
1736
01:20:13.941 --> 01:20:15.762
And I was like, that makes sense to me.
1737
01:20:16.442 --> 01:20:16.782
It's true.
1738
01:20:17.162 --> 01:20:17.442
It is.
1739
01:20:17.582 --> 01:20:18.022
It's true.
1740
01:20:18.242 --> 01:20:20.003
What a great way to put that into perspective.
1741
01:20:20.163 --> 01:20:20.963
Yeah.
1742
01:20:22.583 --> 01:20:23.683
And I didn't know what I was doing.
1743
01:20:23.783 --> 01:20:24.003
Yeah.
1744
01:20:24.383 --> 01:20:30.964
I just, there's that rich always has a saying, no one knows, no one cares how much, you know, until they know how much you care.
1745
01:20:31.284 --> 01:20:39.786
One of the things that I think every leader should do is, you know, I have, there's, there's a lot of stuff that I'm really, really bad at.
1746
01:20:39.906 --> 01:20:43.146
But one of the things I'm really good at is I actually do care.
1747
01:20:43.267 --> 01:20:45.967
And I ask a lot of questions and I have a photographic memory.
1748
01:20:46.447 --> 01:20:49.988
So I like I already know from you, I've met you.
1749
01:20:50.028 --> 01:20:51.849
This is the first time I've ever met you in person.
1750
01:20:51.889 --> 01:20:54.669
And I can tell you 12 things about yourself that you've already told me.
1751
01:20:55.150 --> 01:20:57.350
And I will repeat those back to you at some point.
1752
01:20:57.670 --> 01:21:00.891
And you now know, holy shit, he actually does give a shit.
1753
01:21:00.931 --> 01:21:01.772
He was listening to me.
1754
01:21:02.252 --> 01:21:06.373
If we all did that with people around us, wouldn't the world be a better place?
1755
01:21:07.073 --> 01:21:09.695
Even if we don't give a shit, at least act like we do.
1756
01:21:10.175 --> 01:21:11.356
It makes people feel good.
1757
01:21:11.596 --> 01:21:12.117
Absolutely.
1758
01:21:12.617 --> 01:21:13.077
Absolutely.
1759
01:21:13.097 --> 01:21:14.758
How to win friends and influence people, right?
1760
01:21:14.818 --> 01:21:18.481
Be hearty in your affirmation and lavish in your praise.
1761
01:21:18.861 --> 01:21:19.922
I need to read that book now.
1762
01:21:20.122 --> 01:21:20.462
Which one?
1763
01:21:20.603 --> 01:21:21.043
This one?
1764
01:21:21.063 --> 01:21:22.064
The one, yeah, the Robert Cole.
1765
01:21:22.444 --> 01:21:23.465
Yeah, the Cialdini.
1766
01:21:23.665 --> 01:21:24.485
Yeah, that's awesome.
1767
01:21:24.665 --> 01:21:25.266
Great book.
1768
01:21:25.526 --> 01:21:25.906
Absolutely.
1769
01:21:25.926 --> 01:21:26.987
I can't recommend it enough.
1770
01:21:27.227 --> 01:21:27.707
Love it.
1771
01:21:27.727 --> 01:21:28.268
Yeah, great book.
1772
01:21:28.588 --> 01:21:28.788
All right.
1773
01:21:28.808 --> 01:21:34.190
So we answered the question about what a leader or executive should do if somebody on their team is struggling.
1774
01:21:34.490 --> 01:21:37.070
What about a leader or executive who's struggling themselves?
1775
01:21:37.690 --> 01:21:41.371
Struggling and hasn't gotten better yet or struggling and doesn't know what to do?
1776
01:21:42.912 --> 01:21:44.192
Let's find the through line.
1777
01:21:44.252 --> 01:21:45.112
Let's arc it out.
1778
01:21:45.192 --> 01:21:48.913
Let's say that they're not sure if they are struggling.
1779
01:21:48.953 --> 01:21:54.535
They're not sure if they have a problem, but they have a mosquito in their ear saying something's not right.
1780
01:21:54.735 --> 01:21:55.516
What's their next step?
1781
01:21:55.616 --> 01:21:56.016
Call me.
1782
01:21:56.036 --> 01:22:02.263
I mean, or call someone like me or talk to someone like me or talk to someone.
1783
01:22:02.423 --> 01:22:09.330
I mean, the worst thing that you can do, go back to the rest rat study is isolate and get in your own head and figure it and try to figure it out yourself.
1784
01:22:10.531 --> 01:22:12.073
You know, I'll tell you an interesting story.
1785
01:22:12.453 --> 01:22:13.715
I, two weeks ago,
1786
01:22:15.335 --> 01:22:20.779
I got really, really sick and what it turned out to be, it was probably stress.
1787
01:22:20.980 --> 01:22:21.740
It was anxiety.
1788
01:22:21.760 --> 01:22:23.281
It was physical anxiety.
1789
01:22:24.262 --> 01:22:25.343
And I haven't felt that.
1790
01:22:25.563 --> 01:22:31.268
I used to have a lot of physical anxiety when I was drinking, but I hadn't felt that in 15 years.
1791
01:22:32.068 --> 01:22:33.149
And I didn't know what it was.
1792
01:22:33.209 --> 01:22:36.732
I went to the doctor, they checked me out and I knew I was like in fight or flight.
1793
01:22:37.032 --> 01:22:39.314
And serendipitously, I met this guy.
1794
01:22:41.357 --> 01:22:42.682
And we had a business meeting.
1795
01:22:43.004 --> 01:22:45.694
And two days later, he just reached out and said, are you feeling better?
1796
01:22:45.714 --> 01:22:45.815
Yeah.
1797
01:22:46.815 --> 01:22:49.956
And I just started engaging with him and word vomited all over him.
1798
01:22:49.976 --> 01:22:54.477
It turns out he's a breathing expert and he taught me what to do.
1799
01:22:54.997 --> 01:22:57.378
And I've been phenomenal ever since then.
1800
01:22:57.738 --> 01:23:01.299
And most people seeing this is like, well, Hamilton seems like he's got his shit together.
1801
01:23:01.319 --> 01:23:03.140
He knows what the fuck he's doing now, this and that.
1802
01:23:03.360 --> 01:23:04.100
I don't think that at all.
1803
01:23:04.720 --> 01:23:05.180
Yeah.
1804
01:23:05.561 --> 01:23:07.481
But you can always learn from other people.
1805
01:23:07.821 --> 01:23:13.203
And I just anyone that is struggling and has something in their ear,
1806
01:23:14.444 --> 01:23:16.125
don't let it sit there.
1807
01:23:16.325 --> 01:23:17.866
I'll give you an example.
1808
01:23:18.126 --> 01:23:22.388
My dear brother-in-law passed away from colorectal cancer.
1809
01:23:23.589 --> 01:23:25.310
He was a burly dude.
1810
01:23:25.390 --> 01:23:27.091
He was a construction guy.
1811
01:23:27.892 --> 01:23:29.993
His dad was a doctor.
1812
01:23:30.133 --> 01:23:33.755
He had blood in his stool for like a year and then finally went to the doctor.
1813
01:23:34.455 --> 01:23:36.856
Most people, when you have blood in your stool, you're going to go to the doctor.
1814
01:23:36.936 --> 01:23:41.979
Well, if you have a mosquito in your ear and it's itching at you, go see someone or go talk to someone.
1815
01:23:42.600 --> 01:23:44.741
That's the one thing I can encourage you to do.
1816
01:23:44.881 --> 01:23:45.901
Now, let's flip it.
1817
01:23:46.342 --> 01:23:48.803
If you're a leader that's struggled with stuff...
1818
01:23:50.623 --> 01:23:55.528
First of all, I don't know anyone in this world that hasn't struggled, whether personally or a family member.
1819
01:23:55.548 --> 01:23:56.690
And I do this all the time.
1820
01:23:56.730 --> 01:23:57.951
I get people to raise their hand.
1821
01:23:58.772 --> 01:23:59.413
And it's funny.
1822
01:23:59.493 --> 01:24:01.855
When I got sober, I thought I was the weird one.
1823
01:24:02.316 --> 01:24:06.981
I tell people now, if you've never struggled or has a family member that struggled, you're the fucking weird one.
1824
01:24:07.922 --> 01:24:08.583
Tell your story.
1825
01:24:09.383 --> 01:24:10.104
Tell your story.
1826
01:24:10.224 --> 01:24:13.487
Stand up and tell people like say it at the meeting.
1827
01:24:13.527 --> 01:24:16.690
Hey, guys, I used to deal with a depression and I saw a therapist.
1828
01:24:17.151 --> 01:24:22.596
We were we were kicking off the iron workers district last week and we were giving this great presentation.
1829
01:24:22.736 --> 01:24:26.399
And at the end of the presentation, this guy raised his hand and he said, can I say something?
1830
01:24:27.160 --> 01:24:27.741
I'm like, sure.
1831
01:24:27.761 --> 01:24:31.226
And this is a big burly iron worker, dude, badass motherfucker.
1832
01:24:32.027 --> 01:24:38.455
And he goes, guys, he goes, I used to come home from work every day and I would open the door and I would throw my problems in the door.
1833
01:24:38.736 --> 01:24:42.501
And he goes, one day I came home and I opened the door and there was no more room.
1834
01:24:44.346 --> 01:24:47.049
And he was telling us where he was headed.
1835
01:24:47.790 --> 01:24:50.914
And he goes, and something clicked, and I saw a therapist.
1836
01:24:51.214 --> 01:24:58.602
And that right there changed everyone in that room's life because he had the courage to talk about it.
1837
01:24:59.323 --> 01:25:03.368
When you start normalizing this, that's when the stigma starts to go away.
1838
01:25:07.428 --> 01:25:09.170
That can be very difficult for people.
1839
01:25:10.090 --> 01:25:10.311
Yep.
1840
01:25:11.091 --> 01:25:11.492
Can be.
1841
01:25:11.932 --> 01:25:14.054
But if we want to fix it, that's what we have to do.
1842
01:25:14.374 --> 01:25:14.614
Yeah.
1843
01:25:14.854 --> 01:25:16.496
And I don't—I don't know.
1844
01:25:17.897 --> 01:25:19.358
I mean, I'm just a different bird.
1845
01:25:19.378 --> 01:25:20.659
I mean—
1846
01:25:22.743 --> 01:25:24.583
Sometimes politics are involved.
1847
01:25:24.804 --> 01:25:28.885
For whatever reason, we see this shit as weakness and it's just not.
1848
01:25:29.045 --> 01:25:29.705
And the more.
1849
01:25:30.185 --> 01:25:31.205
But think about it.
1850
01:25:31.405 --> 01:25:39.347
When your boss stands up in the meeting and says, you guys have no idea, but I've had a daughter that's been struggling for a year and a half.
1851
01:25:40.948 --> 01:25:41.988
It changes everything.
1852
01:25:43.405 --> 01:25:43.745
Yeah.
1853
01:25:44.226 --> 01:25:52.294
You know, at the end of the day, impact and the ability to move people, it all starts with human connection.
1854
01:25:52.554 --> 01:25:57.659
And the only way that you can truly connect with another human being is if you're at least a little bit vulnerable.
1855
01:25:58.340 --> 01:25:59.781
If you humanize yourself.
1856
01:25:59.882 --> 01:26:00.102
Yep.
1857
01:26:01.185 --> 01:26:02.186
That's a great way of putting it.
1858
01:26:02.446 --> 01:26:02.746
It is.
1859
01:26:03.647 --> 01:26:04.487
But I agree with you.
1860
01:26:04.728 --> 01:26:05.748
It is hard for some people.
1861
01:26:05.808 --> 01:26:09.451
I was at a meeting this week, and it's a political organization.
1862
01:26:09.651 --> 01:26:14.254
And a guy, I actually, during the keynote, I asked people to share their story.
1863
01:26:15.808 --> 01:26:16.849
And a few people stood up.
1864
01:26:16.969 --> 01:26:19.851
One guy stood up and literally started crying.
1865
01:26:20.291 --> 01:26:24.635
And this was a trade union and got a standing ovation.
1866
01:26:25.495 --> 01:26:29.358
Afterwards, a guy came up to me privately and he said, I was suicidal.
1867
01:26:29.378 --> 01:26:30.539
You guys saved my life.
1868
01:26:30.599 --> 01:26:32.320
And he goes, and I wanted to stand up.
1869
01:26:32.961 --> 01:26:38.245
But I knew there would be members in that organization that would see me as weak.
1870
01:26:38.785 --> 01:26:42.828
And then they would try to kill me politically and get me replaced in my job.
1871
01:26:43.629 --> 01:26:44.850
And that made me very sad.
1872
01:26:46.076 --> 01:26:46.516
But I get it.
1873
01:26:47.896 --> 01:26:48.437
I mean, I get it.
1874
01:26:52.518 --> 01:26:58.259
All right, if you could go back and do it all over again, what would you tell your 20 year old self?
1875
01:26:59.219 --> 01:27:00.660
Invest money quickly.
1876
01:27:01.140 --> 01:27:09.502
That was why I mean, I would not change one fucking thing about my life other than when I was 21 years old and I got my first job, I would start investing in my 401k.
1877
01:27:09.762 --> 01:27:10.722
It's the only thing I would change.
1878
01:27:11.322 --> 01:27:13.103
You wouldn't change anything about your experience.
1879
01:27:13.183 --> 01:27:13.883
Not one thing.
1880
01:27:15.012 --> 01:27:17.094
I am exactly where I'm supposed to be.
1881
01:27:17.314 --> 01:27:19.657
And I got here from every one of those experiences.
1882
01:27:19.737 --> 01:27:20.718
That sounds crazy.
1883
01:27:21.278 --> 01:27:23.300
I didn't even get into the part.
1884
01:27:23.521 --> 01:27:26.464
Like when I came home from rehab, that was the harder part.
1885
01:27:27.204 --> 01:27:28.666
So I got better in rehab.
1886
01:27:30.578 --> 01:27:32.319
My wife and I still were not getting along.
1887
01:27:32.700 --> 01:27:33.821
Still wasn't working out.
1888
01:27:33.941 --> 01:27:34.881
My wife's a cancer.
1889
01:27:35.022 --> 01:27:36.182
So she's born in July.
1890
01:27:36.883 --> 01:27:37.864
Cancers don't leave.
1891
01:27:37.904 --> 01:27:38.865
My wife's a cancer too.
1892
01:27:39.005 --> 01:27:40.866
So she left emotionally.
1893
01:27:41.126 --> 01:27:42.447
She did not leave the house.
1894
01:27:42.587 --> 01:27:43.488
She did not leave me.
1895
01:27:44.329 --> 01:27:45.149
So I came back.
1896
01:27:46.022 --> 01:27:48.183
And now I'm quote unquote healed.
1897
01:27:48.323 --> 01:27:50.785
Now this is going to be, you got to follow me through this.
1898
01:27:51.845 --> 01:27:54.687
My wife was fucking pissed.
1899
01:27:54.727 --> 01:27:57.328
Because I came back and now I'm everyone's hero.
1900
01:27:57.548 --> 01:27:59.389
Everyone's calling me a hero.
1901
01:27:59.489 --> 01:28:00.550
You're so brave.
1902
01:28:00.610 --> 01:28:01.910
I can't believe you did that.
1903
01:28:01.950 --> 01:28:03.071
I'm so proud of you.
1904
01:28:03.771 --> 01:28:04.912
She's like, fuck you.
1905
01:28:04.972 --> 01:28:06.713
You went to yoga for six weeks.
1906
01:28:08.245 --> 01:28:11.507
I had to run my business and take care of the kids for six weeks.
1907
01:28:11.587 --> 01:28:17.451
And more importantly, I dealt with this shit for 10 years in secret and no one was there to support me.
1908
01:28:17.992 --> 01:28:18.512
Fuck you.
1909
01:28:19.713 --> 01:28:20.814
I was pissed at her.
1910
01:28:21.274 --> 01:28:22.095
Now I get it.
1911
01:28:23.072 --> 01:28:25.173
I totally understand where she was then.
1912
01:28:25.253 --> 01:28:27.775
I totally sympathize with her because think about it.
1913
01:28:27.795 --> 01:28:29.776
You live with an alcoholic for 10 years.
1914
01:28:30.376 --> 01:28:31.317
No one sees it.
1915
01:28:31.717 --> 01:28:34.918
Now all of a sudden he gets courageous and we're all kissing his ass.
1916
01:28:35.099 --> 01:28:35.899
What about her?
1917
01:28:36.039 --> 01:28:37.600
She needed love and support as well.
1918
01:28:37.620 --> 01:28:38.160
So I get it.
1919
01:28:38.781 --> 01:28:40.922
So she was mad and we lived this...
1920
01:28:41.622 --> 01:28:43.724
I wouldn't say it was a horrible life, but it wasn't good.
1921
01:28:43.824 --> 01:28:45.165
It was very toxic.
1922
01:28:45.285 --> 01:28:46.386
We were together.
1923
01:28:46.426 --> 01:28:50.410
I came home in September, September, October, November, December.
1924
01:28:51.011 --> 01:28:52.152
I was seeing a therapist.
1925
01:28:52.292 --> 01:28:55.074
The therapist was even asking me, why are you staying?
1926
01:28:56.084 --> 01:28:58.966
And we should have been asking my wife why she was staying, but she stayed.
1927
01:28:59.907 --> 01:29:03.930
So finally, I was in Chicago on a business trip.
1928
01:29:04.071 --> 01:29:05.091
We were on a phone.
1929
01:29:05.272 --> 01:29:06.953
She was bitching me out about something.
1930
01:29:07.093 --> 01:29:09.415
And guys, I want to let you know, my wife is fucking phenomenal.
1931
01:29:09.435 --> 01:29:09.835
I love her.
1932
01:29:09.875 --> 01:29:10.396
We made it.
1933
01:29:10.576 --> 01:29:12.518
But I do understand now.
1934
01:29:13.238 --> 01:29:14.859
And she said something to me and it clicked.
1935
01:29:14.919 --> 01:29:15.680
I said, that's it.
1936
01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:16.300
I'm done.
1937
01:29:16.560 --> 01:29:23.685
Click, hung up the phone, called, got an apartment that night, came home, got my shit, moved out, delivered her divorce papers.
1938
01:29:23.885 --> 01:29:24.525
I was done.
1939
01:29:25.206 --> 01:29:26.407
I said, I put in the work.
1940
01:29:26.567 --> 01:29:27.747
I did what I needed to do.
1941
01:29:27.787 --> 01:29:28.928
You're not going to support me.
1942
01:29:29.048 --> 01:29:29.488
I get it.
1943
01:29:29.629 --> 01:29:30.229
But that's it.
1944
01:29:30.309 --> 01:29:30.809
We tried.
1945
01:29:31.009 --> 01:29:31.590
End of story.
1946
01:29:33.003 --> 01:29:35.524
We were separated for five weeks.
1947
01:29:36.785 --> 01:29:37.806
We did our own thing.
1948
01:29:37.826 --> 01:29:38.606
I went out.
1949
01:29:38.846 --> 01:29:39.467
I was done.
1950
01:29:39.487 --> 01:29:40.447
I lived my life.
1951
01:29:40.687 --> 01:29:42.268
I dated other girls, this and that.
1952
01:29:42.388 --> 01:29:44.970
I was in New York five weeks later with my buddy.
1953
01:29:46.290 --> 01:29:50.533
And we had blocked each other on social media, all the immature shit people do.
1954
01:29:51.473 --> 01:29:55.736
And I saw on my buddy's Facebook a picture of my wife and I called her.
1955
01:29:56.236 --> 01:29:58.539
I don't know why I called her and she answered the phone.
1956
01:29:58.640 --> 01:30:00.162
And my youngest daughter's name is Lily.
1957
01:30:00.202 --> 01:30:01.524
She goes, Lily's not here.
1958
01:30:02.084 --> 01:30:03.907
She thought I was calling to ask about Lily.
1959
01:30:04.347 --> 01:30:05.549
And I said, no, no, no, no, no.
1960
01:30:05.669 --> 01:30:07.231
I said, I have one question for you.
1961
01:30:07.251 --> 01:30:07.972
And she goes, what?
1962
01:30:08.653 --> 01:30:11.718
I said, why could you not give me what I needed when I came home?
1963
01:30:12.666 --> 01:30:14.027
And I don't know what happened.
1964
01:30:14.707 --> 01:30:15.748
Everything clicked.
1965
01:30:16.489 --> 01:30:18.010
And it opened up the floodgates.
1966
01:30:18.130 --> 01:30:21.112
We talked on the phone for almost 24 hours straight.
1967
01:30:21.912 --> 01:30:22.553
I moved home.
1968
01:30:22.693 --> 01:30:23.813
I moved out of my apartment.
1969
01:30:23.854 --> 01:30:24.934
I moved back into the house.
1970
01:30:24.974 --> 01:30:26.315
We went to marriage counseling.
1971
01:30:26.335 --> 01:30:27.356
We repaired our marriage.
1972
01:30:27.396 --> 01:30:29.938
We've never been more in love, never been happier.
1973
01:30:30.958 --> 01:30:37.401
We had to live through that because she had to get to the point where she said, it's not all about his alcoholism.
1974
01:30:37.721 --> 01:30:39.501
I've got to work on myself as well.
1975
01:30:40.102 --> 01:30:43.403
It took that pain to get us to the place we are today.
1976
01:30:43.903 --> 01:30:45.984
So, no, I would not change one thing about my story.
1977
01:30:46.304 --> 01:30:52.186
Do you think that without you going to rehab that your wife and you would still be together?
1978
01:30:52.566 --> 01:30:56.628
We might be together, but we wouldn't have anywhere as close to a good of a marriage as we have had.
1979
01:30:56.788 --> 01:30:58.189
Look, I'll be very candid with you.
1980
01:30:58.229 --> 01:30:59.109
I say it all the time.
1981
01:30:59.210 --> 01:31:05.613
If I woke up that morning and my wife had given me four admil and a Bloody Mary to cure my hangover, I would have never gone to treatment.
1982
01:31:06.374 --> 01:31:08.315
And then who the hell knows what would happen?
1983
01:31:08.515 --> 01:31:09.656
I would bet you money.
1984
01:31:09.896 --> 01:31:11.137
The answer is probably no.
1985
01:31:11.917 --> 01:31:12.898
But I don't.
1986
01:31:13.298 --> 01:31:16.080
It's hard for me to say that now because I know how great our marriage is.
1987
01:31:16.100 --> 01:31:16.720
You know what I mean?
1988
01:31:16.760 --> 01:31:17.001
Yeah.
1989
01:31:17.181 --> 01:31:17.521
I can't.
1990
01:31:17.841 --> 01:31:18.662
I have no idea.
1991
01:31:18.842 --> 01:31:20.383
And I wouldn't want to find out.
1992
01:31:21.123 --> 01:31:25.567
Is there anything that you—sure, maybe there's nothing you would have done differently.
1993
01:31:25.667 --> 01:31:33.134
Is there anything else that today's version of Hamilton would have said to her back then?
1994
01:31:33.795 --> 01:31:35.236
When I came home or before?
1995
01:31:35.256 --> 01:31:35.357
Yeah.
1996
01:31:38.486 --> 01:31:42.211
Just probably knowing what I know now, I would have said I understand.
1997
01:31:42.231 --> 01:31:42.692
Okay.
1998
01:31:43.012 --> 01:31:44.334
Because I do understand now.
1999
01:31:44.474 --> 01:31:45.696
And I didn't understand then.
2000
01:31:45.756 --> 01:31:47.138
It took going through that.
2001
01:31:47.659 --> 01:31:48.600
I didn't understand.
2002
01:31:48.620 --> 01:31:50.603
I was like, what the fuck is wrong with you, dude?
2003
01:31:50.703 --> 01:31:52.766
I did exactly what you wanted me to do.
2004
01:31:52.806 --> 01:31:52.906
Yeah.
2005
01:31:53.386 --> 01:31:54.007
But, but...
2006
01:31:54.668 --> 01:31:55.969
But that's actually not true.
2007
01:31:56.289 --> 01:31:58.170
She didn't want me to quit drinking.
2008
01:31:58.310 --> 01:31:59.491
She didn't know what she wanted.
2009
01:31:59.952 --> 01:32:06.156
She just knew that she didn't understand what was going on and it wasn't normal.
2010
01:32:06.616 --> 01:32:08.597
And she didn't want to deal with it anymore.
2011
01:32:08.737 --> 01:32:11.139
No one knew what the solution should be at that time.
2012
01:32:11.559 --> 01:32:12.820
But knowing what I know now...
2013
01:32:13.240 --> 01:32:13.781
Oh, my God.
2014
01:32:13.841 --> 01:32:15.722
I would have said, look, I'm really sorry.
2015
01:32:16.282 --> 01:32:20.706
And I know I didn't do it on purpose, but I put you through a lot of pain.
2016
01:32:20.746 --> 01:32:22.407
I put myself through a lot of pain.
2017
01:32:22.487 --> 01:32:25.649
I would explain to her the neurobiology of addiction and hope she got it.
2018
01:32:26.290 --> 01:32:29.112
And we would have we would have I would have done it a different way that way.
2019
01:32:29.892 --> 01:32:30.793
Yeah, that's it.
2020
01:32:30.813 --> 01:32:36.297
All right, Hamilton, what is a question that you wish more people would ask you?
2021
01:32:38.379 --> 01:32:42.362
I think there's a question that, well, the only question I can think of.
2022
01:32:43.390 --> 01:32:50.835
which is my favorite interview question because it got asked of me once is what is the biggest misperception of you?
2023
01:32:50.855 --> 01:32:52.436
I think that's the greatest question.
2024
01:32:52.456 --> 01:32:53.597
That's a wonderful question.
2025
01:32:53.617 --> 01:32:54.157
Isn't it awesome?
2026
01:32:54.778 --> 01:32:55.018
Yeah.
2027
01:32:55.258 --> 01:32:57.659
So I got asked that question.
2028
01:32:59.701 --> 01:33:01.542
So I'm a little bit of a dichotomy.
2029
01:33:02.663 --> 01:33:06.125
I know I come across extremely energetic people.
2030
01:33:06.365 --> 01:33:08.207
Sometimes probably overconfident.
2031
01:33:08.227 --> 01:33:11.831
You could call that cocky, eccentric.
2032
01:33:12.852 --> 01:33:19.398
What most people don't see in me when you first meet me, I mean, you've been with me for almost two hours now.
2033
01:33:19.458 --> 01:33:20.759
So you see this.
2034
01:33:21.520 --> 01:33:29.642
I'm actually one of the most sensitive, caring, thoughtful people in the world, but I know my persona for the first five minutes that doesn't come across.
2035
01:33:30.162 --> 01:33:32.422
That's probably the biggest misperception of me.
2036
01:33:33.742 --> 01:33:37.963
But that question is awesome because it makes you stop and think from a different lens.
2037
01:33:38.143 --> 01:33:39.363
That's a really great question.
2038
01:33:39.403 --> 01:33:40.844
I'm going to add that to my repertoire.
2039
01:33:40.864 --> 01:33:42.284
I want to know what your answer would be.
2040
01:33:42.684 --> 01:33:44.124
What's the biggest misperception of me?
2041
01:33:44.264 --> 01:33:44.424
Yeah.
2042
01:33:44.684 --> 01:33:45.545
That I'm an extrovert.
2043
01:33:47.025 --> 01:33:47.465
And you're not?
2044
01:33:47.665 --> 01:33:47.805
No.
2045
01:33:48.709 --> 01:33:51.270
No, I get my energy from being alone.
2046
01:33:52.351 --> 01:33:55.052
That's really funny because that's where I mean I'm a dichotomy.
2047
01:33:55.072 --> 01:33:57.373
Yeah.
2048
01:33:57.433 --> 01:33:58.874
People will tell me anything.
2049
01:33:59.074 --> 01:34:00.695
I can talk to anyone.
2050
01:34:02.166 --> 01:34:03.926
And I don't love a ton of people.
2051
01:34:04.206 --> 01:34:04.407
Yeah.
2052
01:34:04.667 --> 01:34:05.827
Doesn't mean I don't like people.
2053
01:34:06.007 --> 01:34:09.768
It just means I don't get I don't want to be really, really close.
2054
01:34:09.928 --> 01:34:11.388
And I love being by myself.
2055
01:34:11.448 --> 01:34:11.688
Yeah.
2056
01:34:11.768 --> 01:34:12.088
Love it.
2057
01:34:12.748 --> 01:34:18.990
And the reason why that's a misperception of mine and a dichotomy for me as well.
2058
01:34:19.010 --> 01:34:22.431
You don't know this, but I do a lot of public speaking as well.
2059
01:34:22.971 --> 01:34:27.012
And I'm at conferences all the time, shaking hands, rubbing elbows.
2060
01:34:27.472 --> 01:34:31.733
I am the guy in the spotlight talking with people, coaching people.
2061
01:34:32.653 --> 01:34:33.914
being in the crowd.
2062
01:34:33.934 --> 01:34:38.477
And then at the end of the day, I collapse because that drains me.
2063
01:34:38.697 --> 01:34:39.477
I do the same thing.
2064
01:34:40.218 --> 01:34:40.998
I do the same thing.
2065
01:34:41.078 --> 01:34:42.920
My wife will say, she'll come home.
2066
01:34:43.080 --> 01:34:48.283
Like I'll be on my computer starting at six o'clock and it's Zoom or Teams after Teams after Teams.
2067
01:34:48.323 --> 01:34:50.464
And like you, I'm usually leading those calls.
2068
01:34:50.524 --> 01:34:51.665
It's not like I'm passive.
2069
01:34:52.245 --> 01:34:54.266
And so because we're on West
2070
01:34:57.168 --> 01:34:59.110
I'm usually done 3.30, 4 o'clock.
2071
01:34:59.251 --> 01:35:01.273
I take about an hour to decompress.
2072
01:35:01.433 --> 01:35:03.876
She comes home, we eat dinner, and I want to go lay down and watch TV.
2073
01:35:04.076 --> 01:35:04.277
Yeah.
2074
01:35:04.737 --> 01:35:06.479
And she's like, you don't want to do anything anymore.
2075
01:35:06.659 --> 01:35:08.201
That's the workaholic part of me.
2076
01:35:08.281 --> 01:35:08.482
Yeah.
2077
01:35:09.283 --> 01:35:10.123
It is exhausting.
2078
01:35:10.424 --> 01:35:11.225
It is exhausting.
2079
01:35:11.485 --> 01:35:14.008
But it also helps a lot of people, so.
2080
01:35:14.148 --> 01:35:14.709
Yes, it does.
2081
01:35:16.514 --> 01:35:18.295
Hamilton, where can people learn more?
2082
01:35:18.335 --> 01:35:19.416
Where can they find you?
2083
01:35:19.796 --> 01:35:20.476
Yep, easy.
2084
01:35:20.676 --> 01:35:21.777
U-TurnHealth.com.
2085
01:35:21.897 --> 01:35:27.340
U-Turn is Y-O-U-T-U-R-N, U-TurnHealth.com.
2086
01:35:28.000 --> 01:35:29.181
You can Google my name.
2087
01:35:29.221 --> 01:35:32.142
It's Hamilton Baden with a B-A-I-D-E-N.
2088
01:35:32.903 --> 01:35:33.963
There's videos on there.
2089
01:35:33.983 --> 01:35:36.004
I'm sure this podcast will be all over the place.
2090
01:35:36.065 --> 01:35:40.147
We'll push it out on social media as well, because I love what you guys are doing, what you're doing.
2091
01:35:41.027 --> 01:35:46.209
Um, and my email address is on there, but it's H Baden at U-Turn health.com.
2092
01:35:46.449 --> 01:35:48.890
I, I normally give out my cell phone number.
2093
01:35:48.930 --> 01:35:51.970
I don't give a shit, um, which I'm happy to do.
2094
01:35:52.091 --> 01:35:52.971
You can put it on there.
2095
01:35:52.991 --> 01:36:05.855
Um, you know, we, we are not, we do not have a direct to consumer model today, quite frankly, because most people that if you put any barrier in front of an addict that's struggling, they're going to take it.
2096
01:36:05.955 --> 01:36:09.136
And the second I tell them they have to pay for it, most people don't want to do that.
2097
01:36:09.956 --> 01:36:14.799
So we went down the business route, which is how we get people.
2098
01:36:15.460 --> 01:36:23.425
But if you're struggling, if you know someone that's struggling and you want advice or help, just email me and I'll get back to you and we'll help you any way we can.
2099
01:36:24.586 --> 01:36:26.527
Thank you so much for spending your time with me today, man.
2100
01:36:26.647 --> 01:36:27.388
My luck, dude.
2101
01:36:27.448 --> 01:36:28.910
Thanks for the, it's an honor.
2102
01:36:29.071 --> 01:36:32.415
You'll have to tell people how you ended up even finding me on the airplane.
2103
01:36:32.435 --> 01:36:32.816
Yeah, I will.
2104
01:36:32.876 --> 01:36:34.519
I'll definitely, maybe I'll do that in the intro.
2105
01:36:34.559 --> 01:36:35.440
Yeah, that's awesome.
2106
01:36:35.520 --> 01:36:38.364
But it's great to meet you and I love what you're doing and keep up the good work.
2107
01:36:38.504 --> 01:36:39.406
Yeah, I appreciate you, man.
2108
01:36:39.426 --> 01:36:39.986
Thanks, man.
2109
01:36:40.047 --> 01:36:40.527
Appreciate it.
2110
01:36:40.667 --> 01:36:40.908
All right.